Since Bethesda seems to rely so much on modders already, I don't know why they don't pivot to turning the "Creation Engine" into an actual game making tool, kind of like "The Bard's Tale Construction Set". That way modders could create their own stories and IPs, and the blame of all the flaws of Bethesda games won't fall on them because the modders aren't a AAA developer.
Nah. People are allowed to like garbage. We all got the shitty things we enjoy. It's the pretending things aren't shitty that I think gets ya into hot water. But just being like "yea well I like it anyway" is great I think. Cool. I got things I just "like anyway." We should be allowed to enjoy some garbage.
I came here to say this. Everyone likes some kind of garbage. The problems start when you jump in to defend it. Just own it. Starfield is a shit game that scratches your specific itch.
I'm of the same mind with you on this. Over 200 hours in and I still find joy in most of the game despite all the flaws. Maybe the fact that I didn't expect much going in helped. As long as the modders stick with it, it will eventually be pretty good :)
@grayjedi-117 how do you know what the right expectations are prior to release? Aren't most people going off their experiences with elder scrolls and fallout? Sounds like a dice roll and not something you can plan for. I guess if you always went in with low expectations you would rarely be disappointed but I think that sounds easier to do than it actually is.
Expectation management really helps, yeah. It was the same for Cyberpunk. I expected something along the lines of Witcher 3, and Cyberpunk absolutely delivered that. It's people who expected something like GTA who were disappointed.
Pretty much feel the same as you. I don't hate the game, the shipbuilder is the best part, and I can find where the fun is. But none of that stops me from acknowledging that this isn't a "good" *game*. Honestly, I don't think that was even their goal. I think they (over)leaned into the idea of the game having longevity and needing to have the best skeleton for modding we've seen from them yet. And while they haven't released the tools yet, I see the potential and openings they MUST have decided to leave for modders. I wholly believe they are aware of the gaps in the gameplay, but decided to prioritize the scale and technology behind the game instead. So, no I don't think Starfield is a good *game*, but I do think it will be an excellent platform for mods and modders to build their unique visions of the game, and I think that is what BGS is really excited about: Playing the Starfields that the community makes. Nice video!
I had a hell of a time in Starfield, for quite a few hours. The voraciousness of peoples' hate towards it just baffles me. I think it has so much to do with "Everyone is saying it!" mentality, and the algorhythms all pushing the same narrative as it drives up engagement. There are valid criticisms about the game, if one has expectations for the game, thinking it SHOULD be ways it never was. People are mad that the game is not what they expected it to be, but I don't think those facts were hidden, it only appears to be "worse than expected" when compared to other games, excluding the things it does right. Anyway, thanks for the video. I look forward to future content.
@@grayjedi-117 Indeed, as mentioned above, it seems like most people who criticize the game do so according to all the things the game isn't, things they assumed the game would or should be and not just according to what the game actually is.
You don't need to invalidate the opinions and criticisms of other people to enjoy something. People need to learn that it's ok to like shitty things. Criticisms of it are not criticisms of you. There are games that people hated that I loved because they scratched a certain itch. Further, for fans of Bethesda I never pay attention to the haters and tried to stay away from detailed criticisms. After playing and voicing my criticisms to my wife I did some research and found out I wasn't alone. The criticisms nailed every issue I had. So I call bullshit cope. There are always serial haters but the game is an empty shell compared to other Bethesda games. I honestly did not believe it could be as bad as it was. I forced myself to play 40 hours just to make sure there wasn't some point where it gets fun. I wanted to find a way to love it. To find a way to sink hours into it. Maybe some day with mods. So, when I read the criticisms I hear and feel the dissapointment. Its real. Its not a bunch of people having fun with hating. The ship building did me in finally. I actually had to watch help tutorials only to find out that the fucked up maze like interiors were by design. How do you completey ignore the interior design of ship building? How do you forgive that laziness and greed? I can see how you could have fun with it but if you don't understand how that is a huge failure and dissapointment you're not being serious. You're allowed to like shit games. Don't try and pretend the rest of us have some sort of mob hate psychosis. The shipbuilding is just one example of a myriad of failures by the way. Its not even the most egregious. It's just the one that is fawned over the most. There's the lack of immersion, the poor writing, and the aging engine.
@@pinklefoo The interesting thing about your opinion is that the thing you hate about the game, the ship building, is often the one thing that those who criticize the game have to commend about it. We humans, what with our opposing opinions, are such weird animals, uh? :D Anyway, thanks for your long and thoughtful reply.
I had the same internal debate after I finished the game. In retrosepct, looking at the insane amounts of proof that the game is objectively...well, pretty shit and dated, why did I still enjoy my ~80 hours in it? I can only think of 2 things. 1) It's dated, underwhelming and delivers no innovation. So its basically just a game from 10 years ago. If you take it out of the context of being a Bethesda game and coming from a long line of RPG's, it's just a mediocre, hell 10 years ago maybe even 'good', game. So basically, expectations. If you got none, it is tremendously easier to actually like Starfield. 2) It's a space epic RPG that actually exists and released. There aren't many of those and for good reason. Space is the realm of dreams, people make up all kinds of shit about the last frontier, but unlike the 1 billion sci fi novels that play in space, making a game that even remotely delivers on those expectations and dreams is insurmountably expensive. Star Citizen is the one hailmary attempt that currently exists to actually make this 'thing' that people feel about space and our future in the galaxy into a fully fledged game and we saw how hard (and expensive) it continues to be. to get this exact feeling out of starfield, to be able to immerse yourself in that idea of space, you have to WORK so HARD, as the game refuses to be great or very immersive in anything, but if you manage to do it, you get a glimpse into that space epic RPG that most (if not all) of us dream about. These 2 reasons basically guarantee that some people will love the game and look past its giant flaws, like I did, and theres nothing wrong with that.
Totally agree! Starfield is my first proper experience of playing an RPG and after 875 hours I'm still hooked. Wasn't aware of the hype surrounding this game and only realised it existed a few weeks before launch. I can be honest and say I've had some frustrating moments like realising my manufacturing empire eventually led to my game stuttering so had to destroy all my outposts to continue with the game! Bugs galore - Jemison Port is buggered, empty commandeered ships, stolen ships leaving me for their own adventures haha etc but there is so much I love that keeps me playing everyday. My theory is this game was designed for +40's stoners - the exploration is just so relaxing 😉
@@zxmunro9015...Well, I suppose that having gallons of tea per gaming session isn't all that bad! And you will need some downtime for all those bathroom breaks you'll need as well. I suppose it works out in the end.
@@Rickbearcat especially at my age haha nah I totally get the negative reviews it's not a perfect game and a buggy frustrating mess at times but for whatever reason I'm still hooked?
@@zxmunro9015...There will always be, it seems, where a subset of a population likes and enjoys things that the vast majority find objectionable or distasteful. Murder and Brussels sprouts, for instance. I call those people, "outliers", lol. That is why a Libertarian society is the best society.
I find the argument that 'you had fun' or 'you enjoyed' something flawed, especially when trying to gauge the objective worth of a piece of interactive media. It simply does not say anything about the game, only you. Some people enjoy wading in septic tanks on their off time and, as far as I can tell, they are genuine about it. _Is_ there something to read into this video... not showing any original starfield gameplay _at all,_ even though it is trying to make a good faith argument about how not-absolutely-terrible it is? Maybe, but probably not. We got to be careful about be-all-end-all arguments, because they will be party to one side by nature, and even if they are right, might still point in the wrong direction overall. It's pretty much impossible to make a comprehensive argument about a game like Starfield, because even though it is simply a failure, it is also a vast, multi-faceted failure. You really have to look at it extensively, and I mean really from start to finish, to give it a fair assesment. I dislike bare ratings in principle exactly for this reason. You need to have something like PatricianTV's retrospective (which is _not_ grand public content either) to get to the bottom of things. Also be careful about basing your stance on the general conduct of people with vocal opinions. The mangy, frothing-at-the-mouth sort of two-bit reviewers are exactly that. Your dislike of them should not enter into the argument, and certainly not into the balance taken in regard to the game's value.
You are abslutely right and the intent of this video was not to provide an objective acessment of the game but simply voicing a perspective. Also, in regards to the gameplay, I was upgrading and working on my pc so I was not able to record footage but wanted to make the video anyway. Thanks for your thoughts
@@grayjedi-117 Yeah, the dialogue was a lot better than in Skyrim or Fallout 4 imo. Your skills and faction affiliation give you actual new options, and you can even let companions jump into the conversations.
This is honestly hilarious. I enjoy playing starfield. Who care about objectivity when it comes to art. You don’t have to explain why you like something. Just play it and move on.
You're not wrong for liking the game there's plenty to do but if we're being honest with ourselves it's just not that good. Hopefully voicing these complaints will make future games a lot better like the upcoming Elder Scrolls for example. The unconditional tod simping will get us nowhere
Persinally I found good aspects but I agree that we should be critical and expect better in general, but also from Elder Scrolls 6. There definitely have to be major improvements in the future and shouldn't have to rely on mods
Since Bethesda seems to rely so much on modders already, I don't know why they don't pivot to turning the "Creation Engine" into an actual game making tool, kind of like "The Bard's Tale Construction Set". That way modders could create their own stories and IPs, and the blame of all the flaws of Bethesda games won't fall on them because the modders aren't a AAA developer.
Nah. People are allowed to like garbage. We all got the shitty things we enjoy. It's the pretending things aren't shitty that I think gets ya into hot water. But just being like "yea well I like it anyway" is great I think. Cool. I got things I just "like anyway." We should be allowed to enjoy some garbage.
I came here to say this. Everyone likes some kind of garbage. The problems start when you jump in to defend it. Just own it. Starfield is a shit game that scratches your specific itch.
Liking and commenting so the algorithm pushes you up 🙏
You're the best!
I'm of the same mind with you on this. Over 200 hours in and I still find joy in most of the game despite all the flaws. Maybe the fact that I didn't expect much going in helped. As long as the modders stick with it, it will eventually be pretty good :)
Absalutely, having the right expectations is key. I CAN'T WAIT for quest mods and overhauls
@grayjedi-117 how do you know what the right expectations are prior to release? Aren't most people going off their experiences with elder scrolls and fallout? Sounds like a dice roll and not something you can plan for. I guess if you always went in with low expectations you would rarely be disappointed but I think that sounds easier to do than it actually is.
Expectation management really helps, yeah. It was the same for Cyberpunk. I expected something along the lines of Witcher 3, and Cyberpunk absolutely delivered that. It's people who expected something like GTA who were disappointed.
Pretty much feel the same as you. I don't hate the game, the shipbuilder is the best part, and I can find where the fun is. But none of that stops me from acknowledging that this isn't a "good" *game*.
Honestly, I don't think that was even their goal. I think they (over)leaned into the idea of the game having longevity and needing to have the best skeleton for modding we've seen from them yet. And while they haven't released the tools yet, I see the potential and openings they MUST have decided to leave for modders. I wholly believe they are aware of the gaps in the gameplay, but decided to prioritize the scale and technology behind the game instead.
So, no I don't think Starfield is a good *game*, but I do think it will be an excellent platform for mods and modders to build their unique visions of the game, and I think that is what BGS is really excited about: Playing the Starfields that the community makes.
Nice video!
Well said, totally agree
Just passing by to leave a like and a comment.
Appreciated!
Subscribed
I think the game has a lot of potential.
.. I call that potential “Starfield New Vegas” 😎
Hoping for the best 🙏
I had a hell of a time in Starfield, for quite a few hours.
The voraciousness of peoples' hate towards it just baffles me. I think it has so much to do with "Everyone is saying it!" mentality, and the algorhythms all pushing the same narrative as it drives up engagement.
There are valid criticisms about the game, if one has expectations for the game, thinking it SHOULD be ways it never was. People are mad that the game is not what they expected it to be, but I don't think those facts were hidden, it only appears to be "worse than expected" when compared to other games, excluding the things it does right.
Anyway, thanks for the video. I look forward to future content.
Thanks! I definitely agree, I have plenty of issues but also like many things about it. The positives seem more often overlooked
@@grayjedi-117 Indeed, as mentioned above, it seems like most people who criticize the game do so according to all the things the game isn't, things they assumed the game would or should be and not just according to what the game actually is.
You don't need to invalidate the opinions and criticisms of other people to enjoy something. People need to learn that it's ok to like shitty things. Criticisms of it are not criticisms of you.
There are games that people hated that I loved because they scratched a certain itch.
Further, for fans of Bethesda
I never pay attention to the haters and tried to stay away from detailed criticisms. After playing and voicing my criticisms to my wife I did some research and found out I wasn't alone. The criticisms nailed every issue I had. So I call bullshit cope. There are always serial haters but the game is an empty shell compared to other Bethesda games. I honestly did not believe it could be as bad as it was.
I forced myself to play 40 hours just to make sure there wasn't some point where it gets fun. I wanted to find a way to love it. To find a way to sink hours into it. Maybe some day with mods. So, when I read the criticisms I hear and feel the dissapointment. Its real. Its not a bunch of people having fun with hating.
The ship building did me in finally. I actually had to watch help tutorials only to find out that the fucked up maze like interiors were by design. How do you completey ignore the interior design of ship building? How do you forgive that laziness and greed? I can see how you could have fun with it but if you don't understand how that is a huge failure and dissapointment you're not being serious.
You're allowed to like shit games. Don't try and pretend the rest of us have some sort of mob hate psychosis. The shipbuilding is just one example of a myriad of failures by the way. Its not even the most egregious. It's just the one that is fawned over the most. There's the lack of immersion, the poor writing, and the aging engine.
@@pinklefoo The interesting thing about your opinion is that the thing you hate about the game, the ship building, is often the one thing that those who criticize the game have to commend about it.
We humans, what with our opposing opinions, are such weird animals, uh? :D
Anyway, thanks for your long and thoughtful reply.
I had the same internal debate after I finished the game. In retrosepct, looking at the insane amounts of proof that the game is objectively...well, pretty shit and dated, why did I still enjoy my ~80 hours in it?
I can only think of 2 things.
1) It's dated, underwhelming and delivers no innovation. So its basically just a game from 10 years ago. If you take it out of the context of being a Bethesda game and coming from a long line of RPG's, it's just a mediocre, hell 10 years ago maybe even 'good', game. So basically, expectations. If you got none, it is tremendously easier to actually like Starfield.
2) It's a space epic RPG that actually exists and released. There aren't many of those and for good reason. Space is the realm of dreams, people make up all kinds of shit about the last frontier, but unlike the 1 billion sci fi novels that play in space, making a game that even remotely delivers on those expectations and dreams is insurmountably expensive. Star Citizen is the one hailmary attempt that currently exists to actually make this 'thing' that people feel about space and our future in the galaxy into a fully fledged game and we saw how hard (and expensive) it continues to be.
to get this exact feeling out of starfield, to be able to immerse yourself in that idea of space, you have to WORK so HARD, as the game refuses to be great or very immersive in anything, but if you manage to do it, you get a glimpse into that space epic RPG that most (if not all) of us dream about.
These 2 reasons basically guarantee that some people will love the game and look past its giant flaws, like I did, and theres nothing wrong with that.
Well said. There really is very little actually released that can provide a similiar experience
Totally agree! Starfield is my first proper experience of playing an RPG and after 875 hours I'm still hooked. Wasn't aware of the hype surrounding this game and only realised it existed a few weeks before launch. I can be honest and say I've had some frustrating moments like realising my manufacturing empire eventually led to my game stuttering so had to destroy all my outposts to continue with the game! Bugs galore - Jemison Port is buggered, empty commandeered ships, stolen ships leaving me for their own adventures haha etc but there is so much I love that keeps me playing everyday. My theory is this game was designed for +40's stoners - the exploration is just so relaxing 😉
800 of those hours were you wasting your time in a walking and loading simulator.
@@Rickbearcat Loading screens? Convenient breaks for rolling and putting the kettle on haha
@@zxmunro9015...Well, I suppose that having gallons of tea per gaming session isn't all that bad! And you will need some downtime for all those bathroom breaks you'll need as well. I suppose it works out in the end.
@@Rickbearcat especially at my age haha nah I totally get the negative reviews it's not a perfect game and a buggy frustrating mess at times but for whatever reason I'm still hooked?
@@zxmunro9015...There will always be, it seems, where a subset of a population likes and enjoys things that the vast majority find objectionable or distasteful. Murder and Brussels sprouts, for instance. I call those people, "outliers", lol. That is why a Libertarian society is the best society.
I find the argument that 'you had fun' or 'you enjoyed' something flawed, especially when trying to gauge the objective worth of a piece of interactive media. It simply does not say anything about the game, only you. Some people enjoy wading in septic tanks on their off time and, as far as I can tell, they are genuine about it.
_Is_ there something to read into this video... not showing any original starfield gameplay _at all,_ even though it is trying to make a good faith argument about how not-absolutely-terrible it is? Maybe, but probably not. We got to be careful about be-all-end-all arguments, because they will be party to one side by nature, and even if they are right, might still point in the wrong direction overall.
It's pretty much impossible to make a comprehensive argument about a game like Starfield, because even though it is simply a failure, it is also a vast, multi-faceted failure. You really have to look at it extensively, and I mean really from start to finish, to give it a fair assesment. I dislike bare ratings in principle exactly for this reason. You need to have something like PatricianTV's retrospective (which is _not_ grand public content either) to get to the bottom of things.
Also be careful about basing your stance on the general conduct of people with vocal opinions. The mangy, frothing-at-the-mouth sort of two-bit reviewers are exactly that. Your dislike of them should not enter into the argument, and certainly not into the balance taken in regard to the game's value.
You are abslutely right and the intent of this video was not to provide an objective acessment of the game but simply voicing a perspective. Also, in regards to the gameplay, I was upgrading and working on my pc so I was not able to record footage but wanted to make the video anyway. Thanks for your thoughts
which aspects of Starfield did you think were excellent?
For me I love ship building, faction quests, and I love the focus on dialouge
@@grayjedi-117 Yeah, the dialogue was a lot better than in Skyrim or Fallout 4 imo. Your skills and faction affiliation give you actual new options, and you can even let companions jump into the conversations.
This is honestly hilarious. I enjoy playing starfield. Who care about objectivity when it comes to art. You don’t have to explain why you like something. Just play it and move on.
Yes. Yes you are.
You're not wrong for liking the game there's plenty to do but if we're being honest with ourselves it's just not that good. Hopefully voicing these complaints will make future games a lot better like the upcoming Elder Scrolls for example. The unconditional tod simping will get us nowhere
Persinally I found good aspects but I agree that we should be critical and expect better in general, but also from Elder Scrolls 6. There definitely have to be major improvements in the future and shouldn't have to rely on mods
First!
First Reply!!
yes