Medjugorje: Everything You Need to Know w/ Fr. Gregory Pine O.P.
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 ส.ค. 2023
- 📺 Full Episode: • Father Gregory Pine Gi...
Fr. Pine and Matt talk about how we got from reciting 150 psalms to the Rosary we have today.
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As a Croatian I must say Fr. Pine's pronounciation of Croatian names is incredible for an English speaker.
Agreed :) was gona write exact comment. Pozdrav :)
Slažem se!
Bogu hvala
Bogu hvala i slava
i was gonna fer real say the same thing
"I don't want to get tied down in burdensome speech" proceeds to use flawless Latin and Slavic technical speech. Great stuff
Perfect
I converted to Catholicism there. Everything else aside, it is a Eucharist and sacrament-centered parish unlike any I’ve ever seen. The reverence for the Eucharist there is beautiful.
Everything you're saying perfectly describes the experiences of so many. God bless you!🙏
I am going in October!🙏
Now I want to go
I am Catholic today because of a pilgrimage my Mom made to M. with my Grandpa before my birth.
You can find good where people pray because Jesus said where 2 or more pray in my name I’ll be there. But the apparitions and messages etc are a different story entirely.
I love listening to Fr. Pine. Orthodox Christian here, and love Pints with Aquinas. I pray that through the Holy Spirit Catholic and Orthodox Christians will draw closer to one another. Whenever the rift seems impossible to mend, remember that through our Lord, and his illuminating and sanctifying Holy Spirit ALL things are possible.
God bless our Catholic brethren.
Amen to that, adding the Protestants as well. 🙏
Don’t visit or revisit that wicked place. You will find nothing but lies.
If you are really orthodox, you should know that you can't call Catholics our brothers. They are not. They are heretics and not the part of body of Christ since 1054. There is only one true Orthodox Church and one Body of Christ. I believe you need to urgently talk to Orthodox priest to clarify all these to you. That all being said I hope that one day Catholics repent and come back repentanted to the Orthodox Church. For now, them and others we can't even say that they have a church, it's more a religious organisation. I hope you forgive for being straight forward. ☦️💖
Thank you Jayce_Alexander, beautifully said. You’ve just put the focus back where we need to have it, ultimately on God and His omnipotence and ultimate solution no matter what the situation! God bless you and all here, Orthodox, Protestant, Catholic or just curious. 🙏🏼❤️
Please look into the apparitions and locutions of Vassula Ryder. She is an Orthodox Christian. Her mission from Heaven is 'One Date'. Meaning Jesus is very sad about Christians not having Easter on the same date every year. Her mission is called True Life in God or TLIG.
I had a deep conversion in Medjugorje when I was 17. I am now 56. I would accept the verdict even if the church would decide against the authenticity of the apparition. I would be sad, but it would not affect my personal relationship to God.
This is what Medjugorje is all about. So many conversations and so many vocations. Everything else is noise. I’m so happy that you found your true relationship. 🤗
Exactly! Actually the Divine Mercy message and picture that Jesus told St.Sister Faustina to spread was forbidden at first too ( her visions were disapproved as false) until it was corrected and approved by the Catholic Church later on.
Your conversion was real and lasting. This is the only way you would say this.
AMEN!
@@petermolloy992false is false...
Lies don't convert...
Thanks for this discussion! My husband and I visited Medjugorje twice, from Canada 🇨🇦 through an Irish pilgrimage tour 🇮🇪 . Going up Apparition Hill while quietly praying the Rosary was a powerful experience. Thinking about thousands of people climbing Cross Mountain, on such difficult terrain, was a reminder of our Lord's Passion, and of solidarity with believers from all over the world. If the devil was trying to fool everyone at the beginning, I think it backfired! If the Church pronounces herself on this matter in a negative way and this causes people to doubt their faith later, Our Lady can call her children back to Jesus.All those Confessions, all those Masses, all those Rosaries prayed, all those Stations of the Cross... these will not be in vain.✝️❤️🌎🌍🌏
Amen!
I am concerned about the amount of people in the comments begging people to not judge Medegoria until they go there as if we all have the time and MONEY to travel overseas to a place we are not required to visit as part of our faith.
With all do respect if I had time and money to go on a pilgrimage it would be to the Holy Land.
No one has to go there or on any pilgrimage, all they have to do is not make inaccurate allegations about it, and leave it up to the actual Church to make the pronouncements on it.
.
Mary did appear (and it is approved) in Wisconsin. If you are in the US??? that would be closer to home and doable. Check it out.
Go to Rome, the true home of the faith
Yes, the Holy Land for sure! But sadly, not now. Our own churches nearby with Jesus present in adoration is a good choice too.
Fr. Pine, you are so good! Thursday, you were absolutely right in telling your youth minister that he was wrong to proclaim Medjugorje is confirmed. I have to believe Our Blessed Mother wouldn't want his disobedience to the church's stance. I'm sad this happened to you. Since 2017 there has been a Papal Envoy present in Medjugorje to oversee the pastoral care that is provided there. Pilgrimages are allowed to be organized. While it's not "approval" it's certainly some oversight that might make you feel less worried. In Medjugorje, they say that where Jesus sets up His tent, the devil sets up his tent next store. Evil things can happen anywhere. The devil hates priests most of all. I went in 1997. I didn't see a single visionary. I didn't see the sun spin. My rosaries did not turn to gold. The miracle was that Our Mother brought me to the feet of her Son, and I was converted there. Wishing you peace.
Yes maybe Matt can update about the Papal Envoy since 2017
I’d argue the fact you made the effort to go there showed you were in a conversion state as you were seeking. I’d say you had a conversion before going..
@@Mfrluker there was a stirring for sure, but it was far from conversion. Peace to you.
first week of apparitons has been "approved" per the Ruini commission
I live near Međugorje and I went there a lot of times. My personal opinion is that main fruits of Međugorje are: Eucharistic devotion, conversions, numerous religious vocations. I don't go there to see miracle of the Sun or some spectacular things. I don't know any of Međugorje visionaries. I go there because it's a place of confession, fast and prayer. They organize 24 hour Adoration on every 25th day of every month. There are Holy Masses on different languages every day. There is Way of the Cross devotion each Friday.
You are so blessed to live close to Medjugorje!!!!
Would you say the Co id has anything to do with the 1st secreat?
What would happen if the Pope denied its supernaturalness and permission to go there. I think he or a predecessor should have tried that experiment. The Devil just needs to embed one error amongst a lot of seeming goodness. God can bring good out of evil, but it does not make it good that the evil of disobedience is happening. We are a faith of faith (all of it) and reason; not feelings. You do not do or approve of wrong that good may come if he coming of it.
Hvala ti
@@drjanitor3747
Have you been there? You should go and then give your opinion.
I agree with the gentleman in the video with concerns about Medjugore. I’ve been told by Medjugore adherents that those who don’t believe in the visions are losing graces. In addition to this type of fanaticism, there are many red flags surrounding Medjugore and the messages for me to not be wary. I already have a strong devotion to Our Lady (Guadalupe, Lourdes, Fatima, Akita, etc.). With the limited time that I have, I will devote myself to these approved apparitions. More importantly, I will devote myself to the authentic, timeless teaching of the Church, to Our Lord in the Eucharist, and to the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. I do not condemn anyone for having a devotion to Medjugore, but neither do I recommend it. God bless you all!
I had my conversion from a horrible brokenness and drug addiction from Our Lady of Medjugore
That's great. Could you share in more detail?
Thanks be to God, sister 🙏🏼
Actually, conversion comes from the Holy Spirit. Possibly through Mary's intercession.
But this is a fake apparition. So you converted due to your own power.
@@gabolujan3109 then you have not even watched the video.
It clearly states within the first 5 minutes that at least the first apparition was approved as a supernatural phenomenon. Try watching the video if you’re going to write a comment.
A few years before the apparitions in Medjugorje began, Padre Pio had told a group of pilgrims who were visiting him from the diocese of Mostar: “The Blessed Virgin Mary will soon be visiting your homeland.”
This was reported by the BBC journalist Mary Craig in her book A spark from Heaven
Thank you Sally. I have huge admiration for Padre Pio and he was an incredible person. He is on the outside of my Rosary sack and he is with me all the time.
Padre Pio’s gift of prophesy and proximity to heaven while on earth never ceases to impress me. He also told Karol Wojtyla as a young priest that he’d be Pope one day. Mind blowing.
sally, that’s amazing, I’d never heard that before.
Yes, prior to St. James Church being built. Padre Pio allegedly said that they needed to build a big church as Our Blessed Mother will be visiting there. At that time, in the 60's, Medjugorje was a small village and didn't need a church that big. But these Franciscan Priests listened to Padre Pio, and I, for one, am glad they did. 😇✝️❤️
The bishops have the day regardless how holy a person Padre Pio said. Maybe, to give the benefit of the doubt, she did appear about several times. Mary would not have the kids disregard the bishop of say all religions please God.
This is the best articulated and nuanced defence. Thank you so much Father Pine, you are in our prayers! Thank you Matt for being so open!🙏
Hey Thursday, I really hope you read this comment.
I wholeheartedly support your skepticism. I know people who were ostracized for their skepticism of the Legionaries Of Christ, and we know how that turned out.
As Catholics we do not need to blindly accept every alleged apparition, and the people who become aggressive toward skeptics might want to search their hearts to discern whether this stems from a narcissistic self-righteousness.
I'm paraphrasing Trent Horn or Matt (I can't recall which one); We should not condemn Catholics for their diversity of opinion where the Church allows it.
It bears reminding, and I don’t think it came up in the conversation, that no Catholic is obliged to believe in any Marian apparition, even if the Church has approved it. So even if the Church approved Medjugorje, we would still be free to believe or disbelieve it.
In the end, I don’t know what to believe, so I try not to pay it too much attention, but rather focus on growing in Christ in whatever way I can.
Interestingly, I’m sure many would still be able to show evidence that the LOC and Regnum Christi also managed to produce good fruits too..
@@steele8280True. Instead all catholics should focus on the Eucharistic Lord.
After returning from Medjugorje, my love for the Eucharist grew and praying increased!
The Devil is everywhere, and you can be sure Satan wants truth to be called a hoax & vice versa . I have been to Medjugorie and am absolutely certain Our Lady is there , unless it is Satan who is behind all the good supernatural occurrences that have happened there
I had my conversion and great healing in Medjugorje in 2002 and have returned many many times. My brother who travels around the world, said he never felt peace like he did in Medjugorje, you have to experience it. It is a place of peace and renewal. The renewal of the church that is taking place in Ireland (yes it is starting) is largely due to lay people and priests who have went to Medjugorje! There is so much fruit! I have witnessed miracles in the sun along with 3 friends, we fell to our knees and prayed the Devine mercy chaplet, watching what appeared like the Eucharist pulsate like a heart in the sun it was amazing, but what is more amazing is the changes within hearts.
God bless you more. Please continue to witness God’s love and Mama Mary’s love for us
What struck me more than anything was the sadness that crossed Fr. Pines face when he heard that Thursday had been asked to leave that speech and says ‘that’s sad-I’m sorry’ (Skip to 21.20) A man of God right there 🤍
I respect Fr Pine's sense of good judgment here.
What about respecting the good judgment of the firsts local bishops who rules against the supernatural nature of that event. Who should have more authority in your view?
What about respecting then Cardinal Ratzinger's letter when he was head of the congregation of the doctrine of the Faith stating that Nothing Supernatural was happening at Medj. E. Michael Jones displayed this letter in his video and I think also in his book?
I think it is also noteworthy that the seers in the 1980's said to pilgrims, one of them being myself, that Our Lady told them that she wanted all of them to be priests or nuns but that she wanted them to choose, not be forced as St. Bernadette of Lourdes was. This was recorded in a book by their then spiritual director, Fr. Rene Larenten. None of them became priests or religious. Ivan tried twice in a Franciscan order but could not do the academics.
JMJT
M
I've been there, numerous conversions, long confession lines, miracles very good fruit . would love to go back
It would be interesting to request Fr. RIPPERGER TO COME ON THE SHOW AND SPEAK TO THIS!
Spread the word: Fr Ripperger’s bishop said no
@@KyleWhittington said no about going to Pints?
the greatest exorcist in the church history was a big fan of Medjugorje
He has spoken to this, I'm sure you could find it as I don't want to try and quote him.
In September 2004 I had a deliverance at Siroki Brijeg near Medjugorje at the hands of Father Jozo Zovko. A few days later on my return to Aberdeen Scotland I had a strong internal locution in a woman's voice. The locution was immediately repeated. It was two words only. "Kraljica Mira, Kraljica Mira. This changed my life. This is a real apparition of the BVM. Trust me.
Fr Zovko does not have a good reputation.
Queen of Peace! 🙏🏻
Thank you, Thursday. You are right on! I think your example of being asked to leave your campus ministry because of what seems like genuine concern, is very troubling and speaks to something that I've observed: that many of the 'true believers' in this apparition (and others yet/not approved) can behave with hostility, disapproval, and distrust of their fellow Catholics who do not.
God bless Father Pine 🙏🏻 I love how he explains difficult concepts in a clear, strutured and logical way. And I love that he speaks as fast as I do 😂
I know so many who came back from Medjugorie completely healed, changed and with a faith and love for Our Lord and Lady that is seldom found.
Amen.
I had some skepticism of Medjugorje, but Fr. Pine brought a bit more into perspective. No matter what, I’ll submit to the magisterial teaching, but this gives me clarity to the topic.
Indeed, Thursday claims about Medjugorje were inaccurate, and Fr. Pine gently and patiently corrected them.
I just came back from Medjugorje. You breath God there! And the sweetness of our Blessed Mother.
Take this however you want to. I converted to the faith and had my friends and priests at that time tell me that I need to go to this apparition site and experience the blessed mother. So I began to plan my trip there. Everything I did at the time I brought to Christ in the blessed sacrament. While I was in adoration the Lord spoke very clearly to me. He said, “The father of lies can mask as light, even my mother. This is not my mother.” It was really clear for me personally. That evening after leaving adoration when I went on TH-cam a video popped up of one of the seers saying that she thought the blessed Virgin was going to drop the baby Jesus. It confirmed for me what I heard that night. So the Lord lead me and introduced me to Fatima.
So I believe Christ is giving people many graces there bc of His sacraments, not because it is real.
Apparently they now have a 30ish year old parish priest and people are amazed by him. By the way I say it 1000 times Medugorje has the biggest confessional in the world the devil hates it for sure.
Fr Gregory’s analysis of Medjugorje is probably the best I’ve heard , very coherent, articulate and intellectual reasoning from his heart . I have been visiting Medjugorje since 1983-84 and just like our ordinary day to day lives strange things happen giving me more reason to believe the authenticity of Medjugorje.
Thursday makes some good points. If the negative fruits don't apply to the situation the good fruits shouldn't either.
That wasn't the actually point, the many millions of good fruits far out way the allegations of bad fruits.
@@Charlie25068 that was Father Pines point!
He made excuses why we should disregard the bad fruits and only take the good. It doesn’t work that way
@@irishandscottish1829 He didn't, he called for proper rational perspective
@@Charlie25068 Good fruits can happen at any shrine or retreat. The question is, did Mary appear there? So far, the Church has not approved this claim.
I now see how priests should really grow in patience especially when dealing with lay faithful who tends to converse in a rather forceful way (no, not referring to Matt here haha. Matt is a very diplomatic host. His maturity shows.)
I love how Fr. Pine so patiently and so clearly addressed the questions thrown to him.
God bless you, Fr. Gregory!
Thursday brought up valid concerns and Pine instead of taking a conversational tone became very authoritative.
@@JJ-zr6fu Fr. Pine.
@@JJ-zr6fuI didn't get that at all. Fr. Pine was simply and clearly stating the points of nuance he has discerned for himself on the topic.
@@JJ-zr6fuFr Pine was respectful. Thursday would agree. Also be respectful his title is Fr.Pine refer to him by the title he has received from Holy Mother Church.
If there were ongoing messages by the Blessed Virgin, all Catholics would wait eagerly for the next one. Yet, every month we get a generic message from Medjugorge that anyone could make up.
They are not generic if you read them from the heart and in context. In our family our own Mother patiently told all of us all growing up every day, over and over, to clean our rooms. It took years before we finally got it. Protestants always claim the Rosary and the Hail Mary is the same "generic" prayers over and over. They simply don't get it.
@@Charlie25068oh stop it there have been far to many doctrinal errors in the messages!
If you know your theology you would know this
@@irishandscottish1829 iris you make all these false allegations. Get over it. Go knit a teapot cover
I have always thought this. I'm neutral veering on not authentic.
Its a Satanic Hoax
Google - The Stark Truth About Medgjugore
After reading ask yourself why didn’t the Church shut this down right away.
The first 5 or so minutes are very elucidating.
Thank you for this interview.
Personally, I know that Medjugorje saved my Faith. I come from a time when communism was just starting to show its teeth in my country, and the school system made sure to obliterate any remainder of the Catholic faith the students had.
Out of my school friends and classmates, maybe 1% are still Catholic. I’m one of them, but only because Mary’s messages from Medjugorje made their way to me.
Amen
@@Mother_of_God_Sanctum thank you, God bless.
Father Pine is so intelligent. Love how he explains to those of us that are not.
As a convert I have been on tthe fence about Medjugore. He has me curious about visiting there. Perhaps if I can afford it. I really want to visit Lourdes first.
Neh, there’s a biiig difference between the Medjugorje seers and Sstr Lucia or Bernadette Subiroux… Every time I read (positive mind you) stories about them and their accounts for the “apparitions” I get nothing but shivers… So… Neh… I’m staying faaaar away from any and everything related to it…
Agreed. There's just too much things that make me hesitant about this alleged apparition. The seers don't really seem anything like the other seers of approved visions, where they changed their lives and often became nuns/other religious.
@@frumaatholoid Not all seers of approved apparitions have beome nuns/other religious, .e.g Our lady of Guadalupe.
Our Lady of La Salette is also another good example, and the loves of the seers there are worth reading about. They lead far from perfect lives after their apparitions.
@@Charlie25068 Right, not all became religious, but they had a conversion of hearts that changed their lives forever. You see that from everyone from Ratisbonne to Mariette Beco to the Kibeho seers. And even with La Salette, I feel the worse that can be said about the visionaries is they never found their place. Maximin, who much has been written about, died a holy death at least.
@@frumaatholoid "but they had a conversion of hearts that changed their lives forever" so exactly what proof have you the seers in Međugorje did not have one and their lives did not change forever?
The Franciscan who promoted it got laicized
Slava Bogu od početka i sada i u vijeke vijekova. Amen
Amen
Kudos on Thursday for pushing back. Fr Pine is personally invested in this apparition to be true and good and so he uses his intellect in order to appease and justify his position. Thebfact He said there MAY BE MATERIAL heresy and iablike yeah its all good. And using Judas as an explaination as to why you could accept the spiritual malady of the apparition isnjust really mind blowing.
I have a hard time believing the apparitions yet I found Medjugorje to be the most peaceful place on Earth. I certainly felt Our Lady's presence there
You don't have to believe in the apparitions to get the graces and benefit from a pilgrimage to Medjugorje. Let the Church decide on the apparitions, and the Church's current ruling is "undecided"
It’s been alleged that one of the supposed visionaries in Mej explained why she flinched during an ‘apparition’ by saying that the Virgin almost dropped the baby Jesus. That alone pretty much debunks the visionary aspect of it for me. And I don’t believe Our Lady appears on command. It doesn’t mean the true grace of Our lady isn’t there of course. Perhaps her true presence is there to embrace those who seek her.
That allegation about Vika has been debunked in the video below by a Croation translator. The Church has examined all these old allegations but the are still being recycled online, as if the Church has never investigated them.
th-cam.com/video/QwhPlEHwLzc/w-d-xo.html
A weird thing to consider. Let's say even if the apparitions are a lie. But as a result of the lie you have thousands of people coming to a location and praying and pilgrimiging and entering into mass and adoration with faith. Would not the faith and prayers of the people transform the space ? I can enter a space and "feel" spiritually what's been happening there. Like if I pray and worship in a space repeatedly it changes the space. I've entered into other spaces where violence drugs worldly music sexual imority have taken place and it creates this horrible darkness.
Even if the apparitions were initially a lie the result is it's created a sacred site where people pray and devote themselves to God.
again, the Ruini commission approved the first week of the apparitions(they wont be decided upon in totality until they finish, just like all apparitions), Sad that most dont know this including thousands of priests
This was amazing! I am speechless listening to Fr. Pine. Thank you so much!
Such a great topic. Thank you, Thursday for speaking up and loving the Lord with all your heart.
"Thursday" was quite inaccurate and forceful in his claims about Medjugorje, Fr. Pine very gently and patiently corrected him.
@@Charlie25068Thursday didn’t give any inaccuracies- all the issues presented were real (the excommunicated spiritual director and his own experience with obstinate clergy) and Fr. Pine discussed how these don’t necessarily disprove the alleged apparitions; there wasn’t anything to “correct.”
Medugorje - Krajlice mira ❤️🙏🏻 going there on September for second time, very excited😌
Going there in September as well for the 3rd time ❤.
I'm reading a book by Fr Grabrielle Amorth who was a Mariologist prior to his famous career as an exorcist.
He was a great defender of Medjugorje and went there several times.
It's an interesting book.
Strange, considering the supposed message contains heresy and he apparitions themselves are clearly fake.
@@hamie7624 What heresy and what is clearly fake? What's strange is that you claim to know more than the Vatican's chief exorcist who had an intimate knowledge of Medjugorje, and know more than the actual Church who have officially ruled "undecided". Where did you get this "knowlege" from?
What is the name of the book? I don't recall that in the one I have read from Fr.Amorth.
@@nathaliedube2913 The original (italian) name is "Un esercito contro il male - La mia verità su Medjugorje" and it was published in 2018. I'm not sure if there's an english edition,
I'm reading the portuguese one.
The title of the book is "An army agaisnt evil - my truth about Medjugorje."
@@Charlie25068 yep, he does not contradict the Church.
There's not yet a final decision on the events maybe because it's a thing that's still ongoing. Precaution is advised but the pilgrimages are allowed. I believe it wouldn't be the case if it was considered false for sure.
Either way, the book is a series of catecheses given by father Amorth and he speaks on his own name and about his own experience.
I'm with Thursday on this. All I can say is I'm suspect and not for me.
have you been there? read all the available books and studies from clergy, secular and medical experts?
@@Mike-xp7zv Best to read and listen to both sides. Quite eye opening. I understand now why the Church has not approved it as an apparition site. On the other hand, good things can happen at any retreat anywhere.
I would love to see a follow up conversation with Fr. Ripperger.
YES! Please!
Yes, in 94 I visited & experiencing an hour before and after Mass of passionate singing and seeing about 19 temporary confessionals outside busy with lines!
I was the only (or one of few) who didn't see the miracle of the sun when those around me were seeing it, but it didn't disappoint me at all, as I was just grateful to see mass repentance.
Oh, it was a bit bitter sweet to see that people 10 years older than myself from many nations were all able to participate in the common toung of the Latin Rite at the Masses in Latin.
One of the “visionaries” lives in Massachusetts. Public records show his house was bought for $835,000 with a current market value over $900,000. Not bad for a kid from Bosnia who started out herding goats.
I'm sure instead of thowing out slanders, you have actual proof that he embezzled 800k and that his wifes family are not weathly, and that you've written to the Vatican with your evidence.
@@Charlie25068I didn’t say he embezzled money. He’s legitimately getting paid to give talks all over the world to desperate church ladies even though it’s all made up.
@@AnalogKid333 the actual Church has pronounced "undecided", so I'll be following the actual Church's pronouncements not anyone else.
@@Charlie25068 I would rather place my salvation in something that’s true. The public revelation of the church and the sacraments. Not paying thousands of dollars to fly to a foreign country to chase after emotions and enrich religious tour companies and “seers” living in big east coast houses.
Ivan is also a proven liar
All the visionaries have been caught in lies
It is amazing to me how people make excuses for all their lies
It is a Satanic Hoax
I am from Međugorje❤
Would you say the 1st secreat has anything to do with co id?
@@lxportugal9343 I'm not local but no. The secrets are going to publicly announced three days in advance of each one by the way. The first secret is alleged to be regarding a regional event.
Thank you Fr Pine, God bless you🙏
Always enlightening hearing Fr Pine speak, be it when he speaks about the weather or about divine revelation.
I am grateful to have found this video. I have always been unsure about this apparition. Thank you for the information.
Love the Church's slowness, Love Medjugorje, Thanks for the discussion, very helpful.
Fr Pine was a breath of fresh air coming from the church. Best PW clip I’ve enjoyed start to finish.
I know people who have gone to Medjugorje and had wonderful experiences and have gone back several times, but I also know a very faithful Catholic who went and was convinced the entire thing is demonic. Coming from this woman who loves the Lord, loves the Blessed Mother, loves the Church, goes to Mass and prays the Rosary daily, made me look a little deeper. I was disappointed in what I found, because prior to that I totally believed. Then I also started to notice something happening at church (and also mentioned in Matt's video), which is the reaction of people who believe, towards those who question what is happening at Medjugorje. I have seen people be ostracized for not believing Mary is appearing at Medjugorje. What kind of fruit is this? This is a red flag. People seem to get a "high" at Medjugorje. It's like a drug. They go back year after year after year. I never hear about people going to Fatima 9 or 10 times. Frankly, the entire "apparitions on demand" seem too much of a red flag, as well. I've struggled a lot with Medjugorje, but gratefully, no apparition is part of the deposit of faith, and none of us are required to believe any of them, even those that are approved.
Oh my Lord! Now that is the most dumbest thing I have ever heard. What a load of !!!!. I have been many times and can assure you that people there pray and just have a smile on their face. Is that what you are saying, that they actually smile there!!!
Well said
Devotees of Medjugorje have a a quasi-fanatical attitudes towards these alleged apparitions and engage in an almost unhinged reflexive defensiveness, like the 'alphabet culture.' I've seen good people in my parish 'cancelled' from participation in parish activities by these people because they dared question Medjugorje 's authenticity. I've had women shove their rosaries in my face and say "see?!?! They turned to GOLD...that's PROOF!"
No, that's alchemy.
@@FlyingTigers-xb4co The exact same comes for the quasi-fanatical anti Medjugorje brigade. I prefer to follow the actual Church's position, they have been monitoriing and investigating Medjugorje far more intently and carefully than anyone since 1981
Oh, there are a lot of catholics going to Fatima amd Lourdes 9 or 10 or even more times... Going regularly for pilgrimage there, organized by priests or even local dioceses (pilgrimages for ill people, for example or couples who struggle to have a baby...)
I’m with the guy behind cameras, it shouldn’t be about feelings
Yet the guy interrupting behind the camera who calls himself "Thursday" is all about feelings and made inaccurate claims about Medjugorje, thankfully Fr. Pine very patiently and gently corrected him.
Feelings are not evil. Feelings are important as we are human beings. Nothing wrong to based your judgement on feelings. Just make sure is not feelings alone. We are human with soul. Pray that God The Holy Spirit guard your soul. Be obedient and teachable.
Thanks Fr. Gregory and Thrsdy for the back and forth. Good to bring a higher level of clarity to the whole discussion of "by their fruits you shall know them."
Well said!
Listen to what Fr. Ripperger says about it!
Do you have the link please? Thanks!
i get the sense that those doubting thomas types who mocked Lucia in 1917 are doing the same thing with Medjugorje, any fair-minded person would do their homework but the internet peanut gallery is preferred by many
Fr.
Yeah I'm with Thursday on this one.
Thursday made quite a few inaccurate claims about Medjugorje, and Fr. Pine very gently and patiently corrected him.
@@Charlie25068 why are you copy pasting this comment?
@@TrveLatinCel Because what's true is true and Thursday's claims are misleading
@@TrveLatinCel Because Thursday's inaccurate claims are misleading people. If the truth has to be repeated, it has to be repeated.
A little late since I first found this channel only recently, but I just wanted to say that I appreciate Thursdays perspective (and Fr. Pines as well). I think one "fruit" people often overlook is is the effect on future non-believers if this turns out to be fishy. Believers who are making the pilgrimage are already saved. One of the most common criticisms of the Church from non-believers is "it's all about money" and, if this all gets discounted, it will give them perceived resolve in their position and will be used an example to people who are on the fence. Good talk guys. Really enjoy the channel and everyone involved
Caution is always a good thing.
Indeed, but false misinformation is not, and there is a lot of false negative claims out there about Medjugorje
I don’t think followers understand the fallout will happen when it’s declared false. I went to a legionnaires of Christ school when their founder was exposed. There are many priest that have left the priesthood because of it.
Why do you claim "when". I've been out there three times (first time very sceptically after reading the allegations about Medjugorje that are spread online) and if the Church ever rules, they are false, then I will happily accept that, and still be eternally grateful for the many millions of graces received at Medjugorje from Our Lord and through Our Lady's intercession.
It is inevitable. Some people get disappointed and reject God. While some people get disappointed and realized now where their faith has been. It is all meant to happen to purify us. I was one of those that get thrown out of a church (said I was not loyal to the Senior Pastor) I did not give up on Church and left Christ forever. Christ allowed such things happened in my life to test and to purify. This event is here to reveal hearts. It’s all good in the end.
That was a great discussion. Both Fr Pine and the guy in the background (I don’t know his name) brought up great points. The one that really stuck out to me is the part he was talking about people putting too much emphasis on the subjective. Excellent point and really something to ponder. Fr Pine is very level in his thoughts on Medjugorie, especially about how to view this place. I have never been and with all the questions arisen about this place, I am going to wait until the Church fully approves it. I have never been to a Marian Apparition site, but if I do go, since I live in the US, I will go to Our Lady of Good Help in Wisconsin (fully approved by the Church), possibly next Summer.
I've been to Our Lady of Good Help a few times. It is lovely.
We just want to Our Lady of Good Help! It's so sweet. Not touristy at all, very small and intimate
@@lauragrace325that’s awesome!
I have been to Medjugorje and I have to say it is amazing. Everyone who comes can see the fruits of that place. And one thing that makes that place amazing is the peace you feel there. And that is the one thing everyone will tell you about it.
I think we should be really careful about what we said about these cases like Medjugorje. After all, the Church doesn't make mandatory to believe in any apparition. In my country, Ecuador, were alleged apparitions of the Holy Mother in late 80s and the Church make the witness to be silent by a very long and prudential period. This helped a lot to discern where all this coming.
Highly recommend My Heart Will Triumph by the visionary Mirjana Soldo. Primary sources are helpful in these situations
Yes, it's one of the best written and readable accounts, written in very good English, and I would recommend it also.
a woman who has never wavered in over 40 years, daily life of prayer, rosary, mass, fasting etc and answering the same questions thousands of times.
Spent some time with her and you will have no doubt
I am reading the book. The Church allows anyone to buy this book by one of the visionaries. That’s cool with me.
If this is of the devil he sure made a big mistake - how many priest do we have because if their conversion from the fruits of Medjugorje , how many adoration chapels do we have , how many rosary groups and daily communicants because of Our Lady’s “alleged” apparitions.? Peace Be with you guys! Thanks for your opinions .
You can’t judge truth based on vocations.
@@billmartin3561
Exactly. What is a certain amount of vocations to the devil if he can get some good protestant mindset into those that go there.
@@billmartin3561 and your an expert on truth?
@@monicamohan4720
Yes very Protestant - adoration of the blessed sacrament twice a week - about 3 hours of prayer daily every evening , daily mass, daily rosaries, confessions every day with long lines in every language - very Protestant indeed! (?)
That does not mean the supernatural events are true. A lot of Catholics could gather in the middle of the desert somewhere and build a church and have priest hearing confessions all day and make it a Holy site, and there would be conversions.
Father Pine is excellent. A great communicator, a true inspiration. God Bless You Father Gregory.
A great discussion. Fr Pine is very eloquent in his explanations. Has helped me more to understand Medjugorje where I have been 7 times. God bless you fr. Pine🙏and you too Matt.
Really great discussion about a difficult topic.
Great video. Very much appreciated this conversation and openness of all to discuss this topic rationally.
As many points there is to argue for its authenticity, There is as many points to argue against it. If it is true I think we’ll find out soon because of the times we are living in.
Thursday is right and people should listen to him
"Thursday" was quite inaccurate in his claims about Medjugorje, and the actual Priest, Fr. Pine, very gently and patiently corrected him.
Not too long ago, I prayed for a very specific type of miracle, and would later discover that it took place at a distance from where I was, but within minutes of me praying for it. The odds of mere coincidence seem far too low for me to think of it as anything other than an answer to my prayer. However, when I refer to it, I tend to call it an "incident", or from the perspective of those who witnessed it, where it could be an "alleged miracle". I know the Church makes the official declarations. In this particular case, if they went just off of what was witnessed, it seems less likely to be approved as a miracle, since it would mostly go off the word of a couple people. But rejection would seem to require some sense of attempt at deception, fakery, etc., which I doubt they will find (but I wasn't there). So there's a chance I may forever have a story to tell that might not be officially called a "miracle", but it would be hard to convince me that it wasn't one. Thus, I may forever have to watch my words, unless they actually approve it.
In the case mentioned in the video, if there was no direction given by the Church, that would be one thing. But when someone can point out that it is NOT to be treated as if it was authentic and approved, then people should accept that correction. At that point, it's not up to the judgement of a priest, but it's about following the direction of the Church. Someone can be correct, but wait for the proper process to play out. In this case, there has been contradicting thoughts by those who have the authority to weigh in, as was mentioned in this clip. That's all the more reason to be careful in this case, even more than others. Even if it had been a site of something demonic, the many pilgrimages to that site with people praying, confessing, having Masses, etc. could make it a rather holy place where one might expect good fruits. It wouldn't mean the trigger for all of that was good. But it could be authentic. It's just that the Church has a process and we should allow it to go through that process.
ABSOLUTELY. Much information and facts not thoroughly discussed. Neither interviewer nor priest ready with highly important facts of why Bishops disavowed. SKIRTING over the many problems surrounding this issue. Follow the Church's lead.
It was a great discussion. I rewatched it. Very helpful.
Thank you Thursday and Father Pine for the great debate on Medjugorje. I've been trying to discern whether to make a pilgrimage to Medjugorje but recently learned about the controversial aspects of the pilgrimage site. Ultimately, Thursday thorough and perceptive questions and Father Pines well thought out answers alleviated my concerns. I do not have to depend(nor should I) on the authenticity of alleged apparitions, but should go with the sole intent of giving an opportunity to speak to me in a different and hopefully profound way. Thank you Pints withAquinas for your videos. Prayers from Canada 🇨🇦 🙏
Great back and forth!
Read up on the long, full version of the excommunicated priest. He is insignificant, and short lived. He really wasn't apart of the visions. He was like a taxi driver after the inception of the apparitions, then disappeared. It isn't a "fruit" of consideration.
Wait the priest who was there at the beginning life didn’t lead to holiness rather a formal declaration from the church he’s spiritually dead.
And you want to brush that off.
@@JJ-zr6fuJudas was there from the beginning and he betrayed Jesus...Do you want to go to the same conclusion??
Here is the truth about Fr Vego
Viscka no less then 13 times in her diary said OUR LADY SAID FR VEGO IS INNOCENT OF ALL CHARGES.
Viscka also said that the then Bishop better change his mind or he will suffer the wrath of Our Lord & Our Lady
They were all liars from the beginning and are still liars today
It is a Satanic Hoax.
Great job Thursday for pushing back on this subject. It was a great discussion from both ends and I’m glad you came in with your perspective.
I have a common critique following conversation with many, though not all, of those whom I know who go. There seems to be a disproportionate amount of focus on the apparitions (including those that happen allegedly to individuals visiting regularly) as opposed to any messages pointing towards Christ. Any authentic apparition ultimately points towards Christ. And while that is not totally absent, many in Medjugorje see the apparitions themselves as an ends and not means to bring the world closer to Christ.
As someone who's been three times, I haven't experienced that at all. The different groups I have been with were all aware the apparitions are not approved yet and are under consideration of the Church. The main focus in Medjugorje is not in fact the apparitions but the 3 hours every day of Rosary, Mass, Confessions and Adoration. The apparitions are not even referred to at any of the Masses / homilies. It's quite something to see 5-10,000 people kneeling in complete silence for an hour in Eucharistic adoration every evening, and huge queues at the 50 confessional boxes, many of whom before that had refused to go to confession from 5-50 years.
@@Charlie25068 And that’s great that you experienced that. I served as a seminarian for 5 years and consistently I found the opposite. There were exceptions of course, but they were far from the norm.
@@TheJmlew11 All that means is that the different pilgrims vary in knowlege, logic and intelligence, just like pilgrims do everywhere else.
@@Charlie25068 No one has said anything otherwise. Of course there are varying degrees of knowledge and logic of pilgrims. I’m just noting that in my experience in many different communities across the East coast, and some in the Midwest, the vast majority of those who attend and then promote Medjugorje have a disproportionate regard to the notion of visions and messages as opposed to the content itself and where it is supposed to be pointing towards.
@@TheJmlew11 I can equally note it's not my experience in many different communities throughout Europe, but then I don't like to generalise and pigeon hole people, assume what they think, or go by guilt by association. Where it all actually points is 3 hours every evening there of Rosary, Mass, Confession and Adoration by the 1 million pilgrims a year that go there, who are then pointed to pray the Rosary every day from then on, fast every week, read scripture every day, and attend Mass at least once a week and more often if possible, and attend Confession at lease once a month.
I see a lot of people talking about heretical messages of medjugorje. Please bring Father Leon Pereira on the show to discuss these messages. Since 2015 he has served as the Chaplain to the English-speaking pilgrims in Medjugorje. He would be great for a healthy and analytical debate!
This is an excellent suggestion, he's by far the best expert on Medjugorje from an English speaking point of view.
I’m with you, Thursday! Good for you for being careful.
Making false accusations about Međugorje that Fr. Pine had to very gently and patiently correct isn't "being careful"
@@Charlie25068more like raising valid concerns
father Gregory, thank you!
Pray for the gift of discernment. It has helped me many times to find the truth. 🙏 ✝️
Early on, My father went to Medjugorje. Sent me the early books. It brought me back, permanently into the Church. It is exactly the response from the faithful, the fruit, that indicates the apparitions are a reality.
Yeah I'm still super skeptical.
That’s great. Be a skeptic till it’s proven otherwise. At the same time be prayerful. We have our High Priest in Heaven now. Holy Spirit is our Teacher and Counselor. We are not without help.
Thank you father Pine. You look like an angel. I got peace just to see you.
Since the alleged seers have said that the woman appearing to them confirmed there will be a great and permanent sign on apparition hill, visible to all who go there, and this will happen within their lifetime, then I guess time will tell as to their authenticity as they're not getting any younger.
Invite the Medjugorje chaplain to English speaking pilgrims, Fr. Leon Pereira O.P. on the podcast !! He's funny and very down to earth on this subject matter
He would be a fantastic guest.
I agree get Fr Leon there that would be great
Brilliant man and priest (who is also a MD) who has the courage to stand up to those who say heretical things and/or, talk out of their a--es as to Medjugorje.
I think the concern with Medjugorje is that the fruit isn't actually known yet. For people who had an experience and converted from it, it remains to be seen if their faith is in Christ and the Church or is it in the apparitions, and if the Church one day says it is false, will those people reject the Church and go their own way?
By no means do I have anything against someone who believes in the apparitions and promotes them (in accordance with current Church pronouncements), if people are edified by Medjugorje and give glory to God then I'm happy. I only hope that the foundation of their faith is not in Medjugorje and is in the Church, and that the fate of Medjugorje has no bearing on their relationship with the Church and Christ.
I mean I hope that Our Lady has appeared there and given graces to all the pilgrims, that would truly be something to marvel at and give glory to God for. Though I'm sure even if she hasn't been appearing there that those who have gone in good faith have received graces also, and should still be thankful to God for what he has given.
I have been called a WITCH to my face because I went to Fatima instead of the Pilgrimage to Medjugorie. I was told by several Priests that there are no GRACES at Fatima only Medjugorie.
We can’t ignore the fact that there have been hundreds if not thousands of healings both spiritual and physical. How can we explain that. Does Satan want God to be glorified?
@@margokupelian344 With all charity, none of that matters in the end. It's about the salvation of souls and if the Church rejects Medjugorje and that causes people to reject the Church's authority, then yes the devil can put up with people giving glory to God for a short while, as he is playing the long game. Like I said I hope Our Lady has appeared there and given many graces to people, though I don't think it should be the foundation of anyone's faith, even if they converted from an experience there. Our faith should stand on its own without the need for miracles.
@@anthonymurray8844
I agree. The strongest thing that convinces me that Mary has not appeared there is the disobiedence involved with this site from the beginning. I will never believe that Mary would be involved in such a thing.
@@monicamohan4720 True though I still feel a distinction should be made between the seers and the pilgrims. I think many people who have had some sort of experience there tie it to the alleged seers claims and think that makes them legitimate, instead of considering that it was their own faith that healed them. I have doubts about the seers but I've also met many genuine people who have had a miracle occur while they were there and I don't want to discount their experience because of the seers.
"The Medjugorje Deception: Queen of Peace, Ethnic Cleansing, Ruined Lives"
I don't doubt the earlier probable apparitions, in all honesty though, I do question Mother's Mary monthly appointment book schedule specially when meeting & facilitating that of the seer.
Our lady also had an "appointment book" with the Fatima, Akita, Rwanda/Kibeho and Lourdes seers! Francis stepped in it with this really dumb comment
I read Fr Rene laurentin's book "Is the Virging Mary appearing in Medugorje?". And was encoraged that something was happeneing there. That it was ongoing meant that I might be able to go there and perhaps feel closer to our Blessed Mother. I was there twice and my experience was very positive. Something did happen to me there but it is subjective and the fruit did not appear until long after. My Faith is not based on any external event but is a grace and gift for which I am thankfull. I carefully read and pray the monthly messages as they are so encouraging. I may add (not to extoll myself but for context) that I hear and pray the daily readings at mass and they are so encouraging. This is a time for discernment and we should be prudent. I am mindful of I Thessalonians, 5: 19-22 Do not quench the Spirit. Do not despise prophetic utterances. Test everything; retain what is good. Refrain from every kind of evil. Very interesting discussion, as I have come to expect from you guys. God bless
I am sceptical to visions of Ivan. Wherever he travels, wherever he throws an event, there Marry appears always. And this repeats thousands of times. It does not meet any serious apparition criteria. Marry is not someone you can call for an apparition anytime you want.
Agree. It's like he has Mary on tap.
It would be useful to have Fr Ripperger (Exorcist) on your show. He believes Medjugorje to have demonic influence. As a Thomist, he also argues that evolution doesn't make philosophical sense. Given he is a Thomist expert, one would think he would make a good guest.
This Priest seems very bias in his conclusions.
He's not alone.
Fr Ripperger has been sadly misinformed about Medjugorje...I lived there off and on for 10 years and in close contact with one of the visionaries. There are so many falsehoods being purported about Medjugorje. One needs to go there and do your research. The Bishops in Fatima, Lourdes and other Marian apparitions were negative in the beginning. Do not underestimate the power of satan....cmon people. Medjugorje has been taken out of the hands of the local Bishop for good...by the Congregation of the Faith (Pope Benedict did this when he was the head as Cardinal Ratzinger). Dont believe rumors or you may find yourself fighting against God as Scripture says.
@@monicamohan4720 that's a weak statement!
@@calson814
Even though he read books on the problems of Medjugorje 15 years ago, he didn't bother to refresh his memory on these issues before the interview. Therefore he was not balanced in his information/facts. He said that this alleged apprition falls between "permitted and encouraged ". Where was his basis for that besides his own opinion? He did not bother to mention that, although visits are now allowed there, it is with a stern warning that no impression be given that nothing is approved. Need I go on?
the problem i have with Medjugorje is that Mary talks... A LOT. this seems out of place for her. and she doesn't say anything new or unique but still shows up every day apparently.
For several years, I only thought that I was defending Our Mother's honor, when I conversed/disagreed with those who believe Medjugorje to be an authentic apprition of Mary. I do not believe it to be so. It is not an approved apparition nor have any messages/miracles/cures been approved. Much misinformation is mindlessly spread in regards to the alleged support of certain leaders, past and present, and the false claim that the first seven messages/days were approved. This commentary is about what I have experienced in relation to certain of those who support Medjugorje through my interactions with them. I believe through these (mostly) written interactions that their Faith is being eroded. I will demonstrate that concern on my part through the remainder of this piece.
Some supporters of Medjugorje, when they hear that some say that Medjugorje is not of good supernatural origin, put forth the following statement, "Why would the devil allow conversions at Medjugorje?" Please consider how theologically unsound that statement is. The devil doesn't "allow " anything. Only God can allow evil - but then only/always for a greater good. Overlooking conversions in order to get a good protestant mindset into the supporters (ex.Medjugorje is valid because I think/feel/experience - therefore we disregard the rightful authority of The Church) might be part of the devil's plan, but he has no power over God's will. This erroneous mindset that the devil "allows" implies that he has power that he simply doesn't and that God just stands helplessly by. Quite a good trick of the devil...attributing power to the devil that he doesn't have and denying the power that God does.
Also, to assume what the devil is up to at any given time is folly and arrogance. He is a fallen angel - far above us in intellect and abilities. We, of course, know his end game. Generally though, if we assume what he is doing with one hand, he is probably doing something that we don't see with the other. Yes, the devil does have power over the material world to the extent that God allows. Any "golden Rosaries", etc., can have different explanations. I am not discounting here the advanced knowledge of Saints and exorcists in relation to the devil.
In this phamplet, I am not dismissing the true conversions that happened at Medjugorje (although conversions rarely happen in an instant). God is not bound by whether an apprition is approved or not. For those that seek Him with a sincere heart, He is quite generous. In fact, God can and does bring good out of evil all over the world every day. He is quite good at it - and to be frank, sometimes, and in some places, He has little else to work with. Conversions happened in consentration camps. Those camps were pure evil. It could then be said that God is turning the tables on the devil. In other words, you bring them here (Medjugorje) , I will convert them. You force them there (consentration camps), I will convert them.
I would like to discuss (and I know that I am not the only one who has experienced this) verbal attacks made against me for my non support of Medjugorje and simply stating the status of Medjugorje withinThe Church. These attacks can be quite vicious and without reason. The first attack is that I don't love or know Our Blessed Mother because I don't believe an apprition that has not been approved by The Church. Let that sink in - especially in light of the fact that we are not even bound to believe those appritions approved by The Church (some say there is a nuance as regards to Fatima, however I don't speak when I am not knowledgeable).The second attack is that I am somehow working with the devil because I (again) don't believe an apprition which has not been approved by The Church. These attacks generally come after I present solid proof of the misinformation which certain supporters have believed and spread regarding Medjugorje. They then resort to personal attacks.
Why this type of reaction towards me for simply stating the facts? If someone approached me and stated their disbelief in Fatima, I would first ask them if they would like to discuss the subject. If not, ok. My Faith does not depend on what they believe. I believe it (as I do other approved appritions) . I would not become angry nor spiritually abuse them. I don't need them to believe what I believe. I believe it. Why then is their reaction as such that it enters into spiritual abuse towards me? Herein lies one of my gravest concerns regarding some who support Medjugorje. Their Faith is now dependent on Medjugorje being valid - rather than on The Deposit of Faith. Medjugorje and those related "experiences/feelings" are now their God. As a side note, being around large groups of people who are praying and receiving the Sacraments can be very uplifting and can be experienced all over the world. Too many have foolishly only attributed these good things to Medjugorje. In all fairness though, a certain amount of parishes are lacking in the presentation of the true Faith, therefore enabling people to seek these things elsewhere.
When those who believe this event(s) to be valid point to certain conversions amongst their families and friends which they claim happened at Medjugorje, I ask them if they can give the Glory to God and credit to the Sacraments for these conversions. Only one has (grudgingly) admitted/repeated that. They say that it is "Medjugorje ". When I tell them that Jesus (and Mary always by His side) is as close as the nearest tabernacle, they won't even respond. They just have to keep saving for their next trip to Medjugorje. As you might have grasped, my concern here is an eroding of believe in The Real Presence.
In the previous paragraph, I alluded to my next concern. This concern involves the implication that, because I have never been to Medjugorje, I couldn't possibly know if it is a valid apprition. In other words, the truth depends on my "experience/feelings ". Good luck with that. I know far too much about the history/facts/status of Medjugorje. I will stick with the facts. In addition, I, like everyone reading this, has the effects of original sin. We are not perfect in our ability to discern these situations flawlessly - nor have we the authority to declare this authentic unless we are one who has been given the authority within The Church. I will even submit that if we use language which states that, "Our Lady of Medjugorje said" , or "Our Lady said..." in regards to alleged messages at Medjugorje, we are implying that Mary is appearing there - which is putting ourselves above the authority of The Church which has not declared this to be so. Scary thought. Sadly, even some Priests unwittingly spread misinformation about Medjugorje.
I am not calling anyone who believes in Medjugorje arrogant. What I am saying is that, to base our belief in an event(s) strictly on how we "feel" and what we think (which can be very flawed reasoning) is to make the assumption that we do not have the affects of original sin. We are perfect in our ability to determine truth. We don't need The Church. Yet another excellent trick of the devil.
At this point, I would invite anyone who seeks the truth of the history of these events at Medjugorje to seek out the truth/history of these events. Repeating rumors/tearing down the reputations of previous Bishops who did not believe this event(s) to be of good origin is not proof. Utube videos which report everything short of seeing Mary in one's cornflakes is not proof. Information on sites which profit from people's trips to Medjugorje are not a valid source. Mostly though, please note that, if your Faith is now dependent on whether Medjugorje is an authentic apprition, be concerned, be gravely concerned about your Faith.
At this point, I am sure that many reading this who have done their research into Medjugorje would like me to point out the many serious concerns about Medjugorje which they have. I understand this. That is not the purpose of this phamplet however. Those who truly seek the truth will look seriously into this. My purpose in writing this phamplet is to defend not only Mary's honor first and foremost - as the Immaculate Conception would never be involved with anything that I believe involved such disobedience - as one who stood, yes stood below that cross witnessing the greatest act of obedience - but also to raise the alarm as to what I have experienced with some supporters of Medjugorje. It is something to be considered before trips are taken there.
This.
As a child I was also pointed to the Tabernacle by my parents and to never forget Our Lord dwells there and if I ever need Him to flee to a Catholic Church where I can sit with Him and tell Him anything and everything - all my sorrows and joys.
Visiting apparition sites is lovely - I’ve been to Knock.
However hinging your whole faith on one (esp one that hasn’t been approved) is a recipe for disaster as these people have 3 options if it is ever declared false
1- accept it and move on
2- deny the churches authority and keep believing in it this separating themselves from Christs bride
3- enter a state of despair where they abandon God completely because their whole faith based on an apparition rather than on the Trinity
@@irishandscottish1829
Great points! What is sad is that this has been allowed to go on for so many years, therefore enabling more and more people to become possibly indoctrinated into a false theology.
I went in late 80s…already a reconvert to Catholicism WAY before Medjugorge was widely known. Decided to check it out as a curious ‘what if’.
The fruits of full Masses, endless lines of confession, a celebration of holiness was all there.
But there were odd things.
1. An encouragement to stare at the sun to perhaps see Mary and her Son in her arms.
I did for 5 minutes and did not become blind or have any issues. Years later I thought how stupid a temptation to do that, that cannot be of God. But this could be the Devil trying to damage people and their faith…but luckily a miracle protected mine and everyone’s eyes?
2. I woke up one morning and looked up at the hill where there is a large concrete cross. You could see it from the city below. I could see people walking right where the cross was, but it was gone. I scanned the whole hill. How could I see this from the same vantage point the day before. How could this be a God-centric miracle.
3. Is just weird, but more personal. I walked up alone in the evening to the spot where the first apparition took place where there was a simple wooden cross amongst the loose rocks.
A very dark and gypsy-looking man just stared at me. Could have been anyone, but I got really weird vibes. To ease the tension I shared my orange with him. He took it without a word and we ate in silence.
Yes…this can just be taken as a completely neutral intercultural occurrence
4. Everyone was talking about rosaries turning to gold. After the orange incident some ladies asked to see my rosary and it had the shiny metal worn off and it looked gold…It was partial, and frankly looked like bronze…not sure what to make of that.
All in all I kind of took it as a place the Jesus had to protect in spite of what foolishness was going on.
I found much more moved see the actual image of Our Lady of Guadalupe in Mexico City.
Good fruits seem to come from Medugorje, but I decided to stick with my other devotions to the Eucharist and ask Our Lady of Guadalupe to help me always turn to Her Son!
Huge difference in the messages of actual approved apparitions and medjegorji.
Like what?
The number of vocations and conversions to religious life at Medjugorje are all that matter. It has been an incredible catalyst for both vocations and people to return to their faith.
I’m reading Acts at the moment and the Romans still despise the Christians. It’s our lot in life! History has that habit…………..
I mean, "all that matters" is a bit hyperbolic. The mysterious nature of the topic naturally requires nuance to be exercised.
@@davidrojas6457 ‘hyperbolic’ of, relating to, or being like a curve that is formed by the intersection of a double right circular cone with a plane that cuts both halves of the cone : of, relating to, or being analogous to a hyperbola.
…….. seriously…….
@@petermolloy9922nd definition: "(of language) exaggerated; hyperbolical."
@@petermolloy992 OOF
@@davidrojas6457 you are such a charmer! And your economy of words is Dumbfounding. There is no way to compete to such intellect. I gracefully withdraw from this banter.
Fr. Gregory Pine is impressively eloquent and i don't know how to compliment his brain but glory to God. God bless him.
Thank you Fr Pine for your clarity.
Hello from Zadar! 🇭🇷
God Bless you both! I have to agree with your moderator Matt because too much emphasis is on feelings/emotions & according to some exorcist the devil can have access to a persons emotions!! Any good fruit from Medjugorje should be attributed to God anyway because He can do ALL things for those with faith!! In all of it, I think that our Blessed Mother could be being used & profited from in this case!! Just my opinion & I pray for truth & hope for heaven someday where every answer will be known!!
🙏🙇♀️🕊
Thursday is being perfectly reasonable
Perfectly inaccurate more like, thankfully Fr. Pine very gently and patiently corrected him.