I know its been 2 months... But I hope you guys enjoy this video, I just wanted to take a break (I didn't have any good video ideas) And btw thanks for letting me know about the SWT thing, I'm not apart of the smash community and was going off of what people were initially saying.
Good vid, but I do want to interject and say that there's way more as far as in Nintendo supporting Smash. Mainly the fact the community is very hypocritical and filled with pedos, pedo defenders, Narcissists, and overall degenerate and irresponsible adults.
The game’s lucky enough to get a second breath with the game getting rollback, unfortunately the rollback beta was definitely a beta so who I’m not even sure if the rollback patch for Samsho is even out
You completely missed the mark on DOA6. What killed that game in the competitive sphere was that in the first balance patch, they made sidestepping take stamina, in a 3D game. Literally nobody liked this change and Tecmo never undid it.
fun fact: "dead" fighting games can be also called "discord game" meaning its still viable to just hit up ur friends for a game or 2 and enjoy what these games have to offer despite the lack of players :)
That’s the beauty of single player games (probably a better word I could be using) in a couple decades you can still play them. Meanwhile live services are dying by the dozens.
I remember getting Lethal League Blaze for a friend to play with. no one plays online, but it was fun playing and watching each other grow and discover techniques
its actually called a discord fighting game because there's usually an active discord scene for most "dead" fighting games. A lot of games you wont fight games naturally in a que but if u find the dedicated discord , youll find many people who enjoy the game and actively play it
A true dead fighting game means that online services are no longer active and is no longer getting updates. Sometimes, the meaning gets deeper when the game is only playable online, such as Tekken Revolution, as no online service=no playability.
As of why Smash has a terrible netcode, in a video, Sakurai mentioned that he didn't want Brawl (and other games in the series) to have online play, let alone a good netcode but was told by Nintendo to implement it as it was becoming the standard for gaming at the time (and it still is). He thinks that online play was at odds with his vision of Smash as an "offline couch party game" and that the online experience was worse than the offline one (actually true, but making a bad netcode only exacerbates this issue, it's just putting it under the rug until it piles up), so Smash's online was pretty much poorly designed on purpose, even when Bandai Namco was in charge of it. It would be a pity if a world event forced people to stay at home for a couple years, limiting offline couch play and forcing people to pass through Smash's awful online to play with others (good luck playing FFA there), which causes interest in playing the game to stay at float solely through DLC content.
Another thing that really hurt dnf duel was that when a matchup was uneven, it was damn near unwinnable, not just against the top-tiers. Add to that the fact that the devs basically made it a point to look like they'd abandoned the game entirely, what could've ended up a great game is now a dead kusoge. Never been a DoA player, but that hair color thing is DISGUSTING.
DNF Also had basically no defensive options, even worse for characters without a DP. You block a single hit from striker and are either perma shield stunned until you get guard broken, miss a block and take the full combo anyway, or possibly have 1 attempt at guard canceling which even then can be predicted and was only possible with 100 MP. DNF was the only game where I could play against a person in ranked who's similar rank to me, double perfect them 2 games in a row, and have no idea how good/bad they are as a player. It was literally option select at round start, and if I picked correctly and got 1 hit in at the start, they lost. Start the round with a 50%+ combo that puts them in the corner, they get up with the game's very limited defensive options, I guess/read which option, and they take another 50% combo and die. (playing ghostblade btw)
I don't blame Dan's team for making the game smaller. Trying to make games is such a difficult and volatile process that just getting it to a working state is a massive achievement in of itself. With the scale of the game being smaller, it allowed them to put more polish into it. I have no doubt that they're learned from their expereince and bring it over to making Rivals 2 and evem better game
the unfortunate thing with multiversus is that it's clear the devs care a ton about this game but they just haven't had the man power to keep up with everything going on because they pretty much only focused on getting the characters released up until marvin
I blame Warner Bros. for that. Ever since the management change that erased a great amount of animation and upcoming projects were cancelled, Multiversus was essentially doomed as Warner Bros. had no interest in anything related to their animated past. Why else did the game servers shut down without leaving beta at all?
Let’s not forget Pokkén Tournament on the WiiU and Switch, it was a unique spinoff of the Pokémon series that was mixed with the appeal of a modern Tekkén game. It tried to gain popularity but it couldn’t get the recognition a lot of people hoped for. Especially before 2020 and even more after Smash Bros Ultimate was released which mirrored the release of Arms alongside Splatoon 2.
To this day I’m still sad that Centralfiction never got a dub. Blazeblue was a series I had been playing since I was 9, and I loved all the English voices. So for the final game that concluded a story line that had been going on for almost 10 years to suddenly not have those voices hurt.
Well said. Sure Cross Tag Battle had an English dub, but I am pretty sure not too many cared when that was announced considering Arcsys ignored flan pleas for English dub DLC for Centralfiction, not to mention that it’s a non-canon crossover game so that announcement probably held less weight in that regard. Also, the botched handling of Cross Tag Battle essentially killed the BlazBlue franchise as a whole. Sad.
the case of rivals is pretty unfortunate, its genuinely one of the most fun platform fighers ive played that somehow caters to both casual and pro play perfectly, i forced some friends (one is a brawlhalla player and the other doesnt play fighting games) to try it even though they said they wouldnt like it but guess what, they absolutely loved it especially with all the workshop content it offers. here's to hoping rivals 2 is just as good i guess
i totally agree with you, and to prove the casual side i recently replayed it with a friend after not playing it for months and we had a lot of fun also Mollo supremacy, join the power of the minefield
@@LoraLoibu I have... (checks notes) workshop 368 characters installed and ZERO memes or cheapies in there. There's so much design gold. For the type of person who loves labbing out sequences in SSBU, there's basically infinite variety to explore. Even with RoA2 I'm still gonna play this game for life.
I love rivals but have two types of friends. One type plays it with me and loves it. The other type are Smash ultimate players who hated it because it wasn’t smash. So there’s that issue of fans of a certain series sticking to that series and only that series
@@typhoonbh maybe if it was released 6 months ago. I'm putting my effort into SF6 now with the rest of the world. Also surprised you didnt mention SFxTK although I think we all know what happened there.
I liked your story about Rivals of Aether. I appreciate when stories of gamestudios leaders are told. It's hard for me to find videos of who are the leaders. What ideas do they bring, where do they work and what is their story? So... I thank you for the content))
Another example could be how Marvel vs Capcom infinite drastically cut down the roster size by over half to comply with disney's brand synergy of the avengers movies, forcing capcom to cut back representation as well. And with a poorly recieved single player mide on top of it, Infinite is the worst recieved entry of MVC to date
there is one gameplay decision that many fighting games have for balance reasons........I am not saying that it is an inheriently bad decision, but it does have a (probably) unintended consequence. this decision is putting a "knockback" in most if not all moves. the problem with this decision is that it makes it harder for the casual players to practice the combos since you can press the buttons on the correct order and still fail because either you or your opponent moved one centimeter too far and that caused your combo to break.
You produce quality over quantity my friend so feel free to take as much break as you want if it means you keep providing us with this level of content. Have a good one
While not really a fighting game, I'd like to highlight Omega Strikers. The game has a new patch every one or two weeks so no character is unbalanced for long. I wish more games would be so proactive when it comes to maintaining a balanced and fun roster.
That works for games like omega strikers, but for fighting games that's actually harmful. Balance patches every 3-5 months makes way more sense when it comes to fighting games
DNF had a massive fall off because it had insane hype in the fgc influencer bubble and it turned out that 99% of people don't like to play anime fighters. It's still an incredibly fun game if you are into it
its kinda crazy just how incredibly unpopular DNF was given how many people talked it up. it was like a case of ghost hype for the game being basically entirely centered around influencers and people making videos about it and it shows that even good positive word of mouth isn't always enough. Maximiliandood who is a massive fan of the game is up there with some of the most popular streamers on twitch and yet not even a fraction of a fraction of a FRACTION of the viewerbase even tried the game. how the hell does that even happen
I honestly think the real culprit behind DNF dying was the community. It is INCREDIBLY hard to stay passionate about a game when the entire fgc constantly says "oh, it's going to die/is already dead". Enough players unfortunately believed that, and left, leading to not enough players to actually get matches meaning those that wanted to keep playing could not. If there was some people in the community saying "hey, just stick it out a bit and keep faith", then the game would have survived. I honestly think the game was already in a decent spot after the first balance patch and if people kept playing it they would have realized that the game was fine. But by the time the amazing grand balance patch came around, the damage was done. I don't think spectre will fix the problem either, everyone is still going to say the game is dead instead of either keeping to themselves or trying to fix the issue.
That’s true, that’s why big content creators in the space have so much influence because once the word spreads that a game is “dead” it’s very hard to revive. I also think DNF took too long to release DLC because I think it could have at least kept player’s attention before the balance patch came
i think developers doing almost nothing with the game for that long killed the game. The game didn't respect the players so there is really no reason to have faith and wait till it gets good
Two of the biggest ones that come to mind are both ironically Capcom-related. 1. The cancellation of Capcom Fighting All-Stars led to the release of the absolute dud that was Capcom Fighting Evolution. 2. Street Fighter x Tekken's obsession over Gems and the dreadul decision that was _on-disc DLC_ that forever taints the legacy of this game. I would say "The roster of Marvel Vs. Capcom Infinite," but it's less of Capcom's fault for faulty choices but moreso Disney's fault for being extremely petty over the rights of X-Men and the Fantastic Four properties and for generally being difficult to work with.
Nickelodeon all star brawl was a bummer because it could've been great, but felt like the developers had a shoe-string budget. They got the fundamentals right and the gameplay was really fun, but it was so damn barebones. No voice acting, very limited single-player options, etc. Smash Ultimate easily has 10x the amount of content. The full $50 game honestly felt like a free demo
I wouldn't say DOA6's fissure between fans was due to fanservice per se, but rather a multitude of reasons. The game just didn't have a direction. - Features, modes and content removed from DOA5, which was acclaimed as the definitive DOA game by many and only stopped receiving support 2 years prior - awful business practice, which was way worse than DOA5 - poor pr, with the famous EVO Japan incident. Fun in retrospective, but it did showcase the developers had no idea who they were targeting their game to DOA6 was simply a "just fine" game, at a time where the competition was too much for "just fine", and a huge downgrade than the previous title. They simply lost all momentum. Team Ninja is doing good nowadays, so we might get a DOA7 eventually, but not if that means repeating the same mistakes
@@typhoonbh yeah, that's fair. as someone who lived inside that for a whole year, i was able to see all the horror unfold 😓 sure there's still the whole fanservice stigma, but that was honestly the least of the many DOA6 problems
@@deco7217 they hosted a panel to promote DOA6 before release, and people were expecting some news about the content of the game or a showcase of mechanics. It was EVO, after all. But instead it was mostly a comedy sketch, with two Japanese models making sexy jokes and playing around with the camera. It was even taken down by Twitch and Evo had to apologize for it, with the infamous "core values" quote. Now, as much as i disagree with EVO and Twitch's strict and unbalanced guidelines about content (I mean, MK11 was shown right after DOA6, and they had a whole fatality where Baraka cut away Sonya's face and ate her brain), i do have to agree that was a shitshow. There's nothing wrong with fanservice and playing around, but that was EVO. you were promoting the game to fighting game fans. That's not what most people wanted to see, myself included as a longtime fan. In hindsight, i would bet they simply had nothing to show 😒 But still, it was probably the first example that they had no idea who they were making this game for
I haven't seen a notifcation from you in a few months -- this video is a massive upgrade in quality compared to previous works, its so jarring to know this is from the same creator, loved the video hope you keep this line of quality.
King of Fighters 15 had a problem with ranked matchmaking. Crossplay patch appears to have helped though. KoF15 had only 2 options for ranked: 'match me with anybody on the queue' or 'wait 30 minutes for a perfect match' with nothing in-between. The game itself and netcode is good. It's got the same party vibe as SF6. Although I don't know, 15th ws my entry to the series.(and I don't know, I'm writing this third time. It might have been automodded,or sorry).
I was amused that they complained about the DLCs in DOA being that the FGC are the ones that bought 3 reissues of Street Fighter V with all its DLCs that are as many as those of DOA and even Tekken 7 that also has many and even charges to know the frame data, and even worse that SFV came without any content. If only they were equally critical of all games they wouldn't be getting their wallets fisted with every game that comes out.....
what SF and Tekken have that DOA doesnt is a good reputation and die hard competitive community. the promotion of the franchise put all their eggs in one basket, which unfortunately led the game to not really be respected enough for high profile events. when they tried to walk back on that legacy, people went into weird culture war panic about them censoring the booba (which they didnt even follow through with). all in all, they were doomed no matter what they did because they also couldnt have just done the exact same things they did for DOA5. but then they "strayed" a bit and got dragged. that being said, they did give up way too early on it, which SF didnt do. very unfortunate because 6 is genuinely really fun and would make for a fun game to spectate. speaking as a fan, i dont really think a DOA7 is in the cards for the near future like at all.
@@kula3368 That explains more but it also doesn't take away from the fact that many of the guys who complained about DOA 6 receive similar treatment from their beloved franchises and yet don't get as upset
@@damianateiroIt's drawn criticism for sure, but when you have the prestige (and support) that Tekken or SF have you can put your fans through a lot and still keep them around. also worth noting that SFV in particular never stopped receiving content and neither did T7. here's to hoping namco is a little nicer to consumers with tekken 8.
I'm not quite sure why rivals is on the list, unless switching back to game maker studio is the decision that "killed the game"? I'm pretty sure every decision in the past couple of years for rivals has only revitalized the game. rollback, definitive edition, workshop, a decently sized roster, frequent balance patches etc. I'm always happy to see rivals of aether get some love, but it definitely didn't die and isn't really comparable to anything else on this list. good video overall though!
saying that rivals is a dead game is very far from the truth, averaging 500 concurrent players makes it the second biggest indie fighter on steam only behind yomi hustle's 600 players, it beats out skullgirls's 300 players and even some non-indies like bbcf's 250 players. The game has actually been growing constantly since it came out if you look at the steamcharts, tons of content is still being made for it and it even gets featured at many smash majors as a main event alongside smash. A game that would probably have been better to talk about is rushdown revolt, the gameplay is incredible but mediocre graphics, tons of bugs, basically zero singleplayer content and some bad decisions by the developers mean the game has almost no one at all playing it and it's a huge shame. If you want a platform fighter with speed even beyond melee's, absurd combos, mvc3 levels of character power and super unique characters, rushrev is fully f2p offline and f2p people can join the lobbies of people who bought the online, so just download it, join the discord and ask for matches, we need more people playing this hidden gem of a game
The Rivals segment is blatantly false. Cheating has never been an issue within rivals, although gamemaker does have its limitations, primarily in netcode, which is still miraculously good considering how long it took to implement rollback into the game at all. Its competitive player base is comparable to most other mainstream fighting games, the difference is that rivals caters to the competitive community almost entirely which by proxy limits its scope. There have been more issues with prominent community members stream sniping smash players than any kind of blatant cheating (i have 2.5k hours, never encountered a single cheater) and that has arguably stifled community growth more than anything the devs have done. That being said, rivals is still an extremely active scene and claiming it's dead because it's purposefully not free to play in order to stop cheaters is some real "my source is I made it up" shit
I never said rivals had a cheating issue?? I said game maker itself can be exploited easily but they were able to make safeguards for that, most of what I said literally came from dan himself: fornace.medium.com/why-isnt-rivals-of-aether-free-to-play-1ca2750831db The video is about decisions that harmed fighting games, even in the intro I specified that, I did not say that every game on the list is "dead"
NRS having a consistent 2 year development turnover definitely kept things fresh, but every previous game was then dropped like old toys for the new game and left ghost towns. MK11 then lasting 4 years definitely left it feeling tired and stale towards the end.
@@placeadrien5566 New staff decided to censor and change a lot of stuff in the game for ridiculous reasons and also in the digital art book and fans were angry for very valid reasons.
Apparently Nickelodeon all star brawl is getting a sequel with jimmy neutron, vlad and el tigre added. Theres still a small community dedicated as well as they secretly added cross play without anyone knowing
As someone who played DoA competitive at some point. It was not the DLC that we primarily gave it flack for. It was the combat systems being 10x dumbed down than the last game. Adding meter and one button bullshit. The sidestep was powerful in the meta. Japanese players hated it enough to get it changed.
Honestly, I think Sakurai was forced to make it more of a party game by Nintendo. Melee's mechanics were nerfed from 64, with a lot of options added for both offence and defense, so from the beginning he was focused on making a "hitstun chaser" fighting game, where you'd be rewarded with more time to catch up to your opponent hitstun if you could soft land (what Sakurai called L cancelling in the smash 64 manual) plus adding a way to escape combos with DI, And he still says he thinks Melee plays the sharpest. I think Nintendo wanted to preserve their family friendly persona and told him to knock it off with the complex tech.
This sounds like a complete fabrication. Nintendo didn't give a shit about the complex tech and tell him to tone it down. They just wanted more Smash and more dollars. I have NEVER heard a quote from Sakurai that says Melee "plays the sharpest" whatever that vague compliment means.
Honestly most fun in rivals came from the goofy custom character workshop. Almost got it on console until i realized it didn't support the workshop lol
So if a small number of devs on Rivals of Aether were getting more done in 2 hours in GM Studio than weeks in Unity that may mean the game would not have released at all if they'd gone the Unity route. If they made enough to hire professional devs to make their next game in Unreal then that would actually make their strategy a success. GM Studio 2 has improved net code a lot. Speaking from experience working in and understanding how to do most things in 2d is dramatically easier in Game Maker compared to Unity. They still didn't go with Unity for the second game so in reality that's similar to asking them to learn 3 game engines before making the game. Freedom Planet 1 was made on Clickteam Fusion. It was a success, and Freedom Planet 2 was made on Unity. The devs either had more time to learn, or more professional dev's help the second time around. In theory RoE would have done better if released on a different game engine, but it might not have been released at all then. Some of the bigger more profession game engines simply aren't optimized for the reasources indie devs have to make them.
Nickelodeon All-Star Brawl still has an active competitive community on PC! :) It's a Discord fighter at this point but the scene hosts multiple online brackets every week
At least with Rivals 2, unlike the first time, it is intended as big game. Of course if it lives up to that is the real question, but the devs have talked about how that influences design philosophy and the potential monetization model. I really hope it does well because Rivals has been an absolute joy to play and gave me exactly what I wanted in a competitive plat fighter when I was tired of Ult.
ive never had cheater problems in rivals but i mostly play local with the boys and use workshop characters although since rivals 2 is a 3d game i feel like modding will be alot harder due to modelling and such
Smash Bros Brawl proves what Sakurai knew all along. He doesn't NEED the Smash community at all to make a successful game. Catering to your hardcore fanbase is what killed games like that Nickelodeon one.
Hey Ty, Nice video! A quick comment on the flying elements throughout the video. Try to lessen the ease out and increase the ease in of the position values. Right now, it looks like you’re operating at a 0 - 100 curve which is why the elements leave the screen way too quickly then have a huge dampening effect when coming in. I suggest a 50 - 90 value on the elements leaving the screen and then a 90 - 50 value when the other element comes IN to the screen. Hope this helps you create smoother, more natural motion. Cheers!
Ive really liked doa since 2, and i was excited for 6 to tone down the ecchi to try and expand the player base. The more forward facing changes like making base costumes less horni werent even bad, and there was still plenty of smut for the people who were into it, though system changes left more serious players let down. Sadly, it turns out that as someone who just wanted to be able to see a cool, smoothly animated game be played more competitively, i was in a very small minority. DOA always was, and now sadly still is, just a softcore eroge that people will make fun of you for having in your library.
Slight correction on the smash bros section, Panda was basically slandered by vgbootcamp and other catty TOs. Long version: smash world tour wasn't good for a license because tournaments weren't up to code on security at events (The bouncers didn't really check anyone, let in banned players, left after a certain time, and were only like 15 for an venue of hundreds) and violating agreements as far as announcements. They moved recklessly, then blamed it on panda instead of taking responsibility.
Wow as usual contexts adds the truth that most of the issues that competitive Smash Bros community complains about blaming Nintendo and panda etc were actually the competitive Smash Bros community all along lol
@@DANCERcow I have a theory, that smash bros is part of the "toxic kid-centered entertainment enjoyed by adults" community archetype, so spoiled man-children and infantile egomaniacs are attracted to it like moths to a flame. I'll keep it a buck, if trad fgs are anime, smash bros is mlp. I go to tournaments and can tell you that most people are chill on the local and regional level, but the highly known names on the major level have as many gross people as any other kid-intended community
To me, no recent example shines brighter than Nickelodeon All Star brawl. That game came out the gate running with a nostalgia fueled trailer and some fairly in-depth character tutorials, and everybody was theorizing about who would make the roster and who wouldn’t, but then it came out that the game didn’t have voice acting. And then the game itself came out and some very prominent characters were not in it, while a lot of characters that people had no clue about were. Like it’s perfectly OK to market your newer franchises in your game, but there was no reason for the loud house to have two representatives when shows like the Fairly OddParents and jimmy neutron didn’t have any. When you pair that with the rest of the games presentation, such as its sound design and music, neither of which generated any hype, the game was dead a few weeks after it came out.
Also, the competitive side was mostly a mess of infinites and hand cramping control schemes so it's "high ceiling" didn't really become as popular as was advertised.
Is it weird to want nick brawl to not follow the platform fighter formula and instead the 3d/2.5d anime style arena combat? It'd just be reminiscent of Nick Forces and since the game's competitive scene was dead from the starting pistol, they could've went the Shrek All Stars route.
I appreciate how civil you were regarding Nick Brawl’s shortcomings, it’s pretty common anymore for people to complain about every single facet of that game And yes there is an underground community that still plays, it’s the Nick Brawl Grinders server, I believe it just recently went public
4:25 Nah, it was mostly VGBootcamp lying about the being sustainable, then weaponized its audience to go against Panda. Nintendo just refused to make threats with VGBC, which makes sense due to lack of regulations who had caused issues in the past. Don't get me wrong, Nintendo HAS DAMAGED competitive smash in the past due to an outdated and stubborn 80's japanese mentality, but sometimes is the own community who ruins it.
Every time I hear someone say that it was Panda’s fault the SWT got cancelled and not Gimr/VGBC’s, I start hating the community more. Also brawl was bigger and more popular than melee for almost its entire lifespan until the melee documentary came out.
@@TweakyCSS Basically, Panda had NOTHING TO DO with the World Cup. The issue is that the tournament wasn't sustainable and Nintendo did not wanted to support VGBC due to lacking proper security norms, which considering what happened 3 years ago... Yeah, they had all the rights to do so. That being said, Panda was awful at handling the situation yet the community cancelled their cup. Honestly, for people like this is that Nintendo doesn't want to support Smash.
Strive can't fix lobbies or hacker man. This pretty much killed it for a lot of people. For a bonus sfxt never ever fixed insanely broken pc netcode, literally waste of cash, I'm still salty about it. SfV never properly implemented fully working rollback either - another 60€ wasted, never played it after the first few hours, and when community tried to fix it - they stopped it, Jesus christ.
Brawlhalla actively ignores the player base's recommendations for balancing that is obviously needed. Its still gonna be alive cause its free, gives out free rewards via twitch drops for every weekend, and connections to ubisoft, nick, Hasbro, etc. The current meta right now is annoying to play and it has been the least fun meta for the last 5 years with them dropping lackluster changes needed for bad weapons/broken weapons.
Uh you're completely misinformed about the whole smash tour and panda cup situation none of that was Nintendo's fault; it was community TO's being salty and jelly and sabotaging and imploding their own community where they saw others getting success where they didnt. Nintendo tried to help and was working well with panda, building a relationship with them for over 3 years; it was later found out in a long pod cast interview with hungry box, Alan, and other community leaders that swt just tried relentlessly to make alan and panda look like bad guys all becuz they refused to work alongside Nintendo for the years while panda did. They werent forcibly shut down but told after their championship for 2022 things would have to change. And so swt shut their own championship finale down, pocketed all donated prize money as collateral, and decided if they cant have a piece of the pie they were going to smear alan as some bully or manipulator in charge of shutting them down. It was those in charge of SWT that ruined the fun for everyone by turning the mindless masses hungry for drama against panda. Alan had been in the smash community as a TO for over 15 years before Panda's relationship with Nintendo ever began, and helped many local scenes thrive and grow to become big time tourneys we all enjoy today; there's a long history of all that. No one would be as petty as SWT tried to make Alan look, all becuz they were bad at being business partners and salty over it. No one becomes a TO in the fgc community to make bank, TOs are always in the red. Its a job you take upon yourself out of the passion for fighting games, not to be rich and famous but swt out of their own pettiness made sure panda fell along side them; and all it worked by stirring up people against each other with misinformation. Becuz people love an easy, simple to follow drama where the rich ceo bad guy takes the fall, rather than looking at the nuance of EVERY one involved in the entire situation, that no one is rly the bad or good guy, its just business. those salty johns in charge of SWT fooled us all; only for a short time but that was enough of a time to get panda cup shut down when panda did nothing wrong but play ball with Nintendo. Nintendo DID NOT actively shut down the swt finale; their licenses and legality were being reviewed as they refused to work on friendly terms with the company while Panda had been fostering a trust with them. They were still gonna be allowed to do their one big last thing, but instead swt organizers just threw a crybaby fit over not being chosen like panda was, and so went and ruined things for all of us
Them's Fightin' Herds should be added to this list, since the devs decided to stop development completely after the last 2 SEASON 1 DLCs are out... even though they surpassed their indiegogo campaign goals and said campaign promised a full, 7-chapter long story mode...
DNF Duel is a pretty good game now, but the damage is done. I would love to see it get the treatment GBVS got, but that seems a bit unlikely. I actually like this game better in some ways, but it's hard not to compare them, and as a product its inferior (less content, smaller roster). I love DNF and hope it sticks around as a niche pick, but there's always gonna be bigger games pulling people away from it. Multiversus did a couple key things that made it unplayable for me. The 2nd biggest was not having a block button, to me that just made the game feel "less" than Smash. The big killer though, was not being able to easily play the game offline. Not supporting local play in a platform fighter is like a cardinal sin, I don't understand how people were able to play this game. DOA5 is, in my opinion, the most under rated 3d fighter of all time (with good reason but still). The "Visual appeal" was a successful marketing strategy for them, but detractors like to take this as evidence of a low quality game, never taking a look under the hood. The actual gameplay was fire, plus it had tag battles, so playing that game with a group of friends, even casually, was mega fun. You just stick the stronger players with the weaker players and teach them how to team combo, suddenly you got 4 people having a great time. I also like that there was no meter in the game, and the big super move was a big charge move that you typically had to combo into. I could go on about how landing that blowback super was cool (it had an environmental aspect as well, and it could be countered if you call it out, the stun system was wild), or how it had the best roster of any DOA (4 guest characters from virtua fighter and Mai from FF). The point is, DOA 6 lost the plot. The overly stimulating characters are something I feel the game gets undeserved criticism for, seeing as how Tekken characters are just as unrealistic. You could argue the exorbitant price to get all the bikinis was ridiculous, and you'd be right, but let me just point out that cosmetics are now the industry standard for continued monetization of your game, and we hardly bat an eye about it now. In that regard the game was ahead of its time (still not a good thing, they went pretty crazy with their dress up dolly games). Enough time has passed that I can see why people aren't usually willing to have this conversation with me. In the other side of things, before Tekken 8 came out I found myself wanting to play other 3d Fighters, so I was rotating VF5, T7, and DOA5. Obviously I'm biased to prefer DOA5, but while I was there one of the people I played with left me with a bad experience that put things in perspective. He would not play the game if you locked in a male character, and if the outfit you picked wasn't showing enough skin, he would tell you "you pick bad outfits" and try to encourage you to pick a "beauty outfit." It was super cringe, and in general I hate it when dead game communities do things like this that keep games dead. How am I supposed to convince people to play this with me knowing they might have to deal with that? So while the decision to move away from "appeal" towards a more Esports style was kinda questionable, since that was such a part of the game's identity, it was also kinda necessary in a way. It is hard to know what would have happened if they had stuck to their "guns" (hehe), but they definitely missed both marks with 6. Frankly, I think the meter was a bad move, I find that 3d Fighters in general need to avoid meters like 2d, Soul Calibur 5 is unplayable to me, and 6 was kinda meh, but part of that is just...meters in 3d Fighters are weird. T8 heat is probably the only exception, they thought really hard about how that was going to make the game better instead of just adding it just to make the game flashier.
Where in the world did you get that cheat idea in rivals??? Yes it’s true that game maker studio is the cause of a lot of rival’s problems. Cheating should not be one of them because a game altered client side would just cause a desynch in the peer to peer netcode resulting in players crashing back to menu and the cheater not being awarded a win because it’s not verified on the other person’s game. I’m very curious to know your source.
Am I the only who thinks that marvel v capcom infinite had a chance to become a great fighting game, even though I still play that game and enjoy I understand why people didn’t like it, I guess that’s one video idea I’m throwing out there, title could probably be “did marvel v capcom have the potential to be a successful fighting game?”
Icons was another one that died, and I think it was one that more plat fighter developers should look at what NOT to do when making a competitive plat fighter. Your marketing should not lean on "Smash but with dev support and an indie coat of paint", because the community is already very insular. Worst yet, whenever you are branded as a "Smash killer", this is the pattern you go through: 1. Get hype from trailers/dev roadmap discussion and content creators 2. Game comes out, server inflation occurs because of smashers rushing to try the new thing. 3. Smashers realize it's not smash (and subconsciously I think they like Smash for more than just the depth, things like visual polish and franchise power are unparalleled for the series and Smashers are drawn unknowingly more to that than they want to admit), they leave but not before the game's resources like servers were overextended/burdened with the people that came just to try for the launch release. 4. Game gets a huge fallout, which compounds frustration with those that want to play, but are stuck in long queues. Also intimidates new growth because you have very little entry point, matchmaking will more often match you with diehard players and newer players often quit when faced with no "gradual" ease into skill progression. I think Rivals of Aether, Rushdown Revolt (which bought the assets from Icons after it died ironically), Flash Party, and Brawlhalla are doing the right things and doing just enough in either marketing or mechanics to keep a community that wants that flavor specifically the game offers.
@@strickshot I gave it more time, and now I'm less about Flash Party since they introduced the sticker system. Still, while I don't think it's a game to my liking, I think Flash Party will enjoy a small amount of success being one of the only plat fighters on mobile (already has a fairly big fan base in Southeast Asia)
“It’s been 6 months and there has only been two balance changes” that is an absurd statement. Unless your game is a total balance disaster (kind of like that one was I suppose) a game needs time and in the past, games wouldn’t get rebalanced for at least one year with a new edition of the game. There needs to be time to find tech and learn the game.
Well it was a balance disaster and it took 6 months to really address it, that was my point. That’s why everyone started complaining in the first place.
I’m guessing the actual reason: “Being a fighting” isn’t on here. The genre is very much like mobas, too hard or confusing for new people while the old fans will stick to their original game/franchise. At least fighting games have the benefit of good single player or couch party options
The barrier to entry is something that most fighting games deal with so I didn't include that, but platform fighters have a lower barrier to entry because of the simple controls and combos but still a high skill ceiling like other fighting games.
@@typhoonbh Thanks for the clarification I didn’t have time to fully express my final thought: I would argue that fighting games in general can’t die. Unlike mobas which have online and multiplayer in the name, fighting games can and will always be able to be played offline and I think that where they shine the most.
SFV releasing in the state it did should count as one of if not the worst decision in the history of the genre. it lowered the standard for fighting games to an incredible degree to the point where games like Tekken7 at launch seemed good by comparison because at least it was better then the absolute barebones that was SFV. even though it still had massive issues to this day. I don't think it would be fair to say SFV almost killed fighting games in terms of having any mainstream appeal what so ever and only until very recently has that changed, for fucks sake we're only NOW getting acceptable online play as a core feature
Honestly, I doubt Rivals 2 will be able to live up to the first. Modding for the game will likely be much more difficult than before, and drive off a large number of the playerbase.
![ฮักเทื่อสุดท้าย - บอย ศิริชัย [OFFICIAL MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/-1PoPoQ-B-k/mqdefault.jpg)
![ถามตรงๆ กับ อาจตุพร ทำไม ประเทศไทย ใครเป็นนายก ก็โดนด่า พอออกเเล้วคนคิดถึง!!?? l [Nickynachat]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/3YFLMXxBGAs/mqdefault.jpg)
I know its been 2 months... But I hope you guys enjoy this video, I just wanted to take a break (I didn't have any good video ideas) And btw thanks for letting me know about the SWT thing, I'm not apart of the smash community and was going off of what people were initially saying.
u could talk about controls, after sf6 sparked the debate of using modern controls recently
Good vid, but I do want to interject and say that there's way more as far as in Nintendo supporting Smash. Mainly the fact the community is very hypocritical and filled with pedos, pedo defenders, Narcissists, and overall degenerate and irresponsible adults.
Samurai Shodown being a google stadia exclusive, then epic games exclusive before finally being available on steam was certainly a sequence of events.
that's unfortunate
Samsho was harmed so much this poor zoomer didn't even hear of it
That explains why I started hearing about the game, saw some trailers and gameplay, then **poof** disappeared.
The game’s lucky enough to get a second breath with the game getting rollback, unfortunately the rollback beta was definitely a beta so who I’m not even sure if the rollback patch for Samsho is even out
It was on PS4, as well. What are you talking about?
You completely missed the mark on DOA6. What killed that game in the competitive sphere was that in the first balance patch, they made sidestepping take stamina, in a 3D game. Literally nobody liked this change and Tecmo never undid it.
Hi oxy
fun fact: "dead" fighting games can be also called "discord game" meaning its still viable to just hit up ur friends for a game or 2 and enjoy what these games have to offer despite the lack of players :)
Yeah I've heard people use that term before, it's more accurate.
That’s the beauty of single player games (probably a better word I could be using) in a couple decades you can still play them.
Meanwhile live services are dying by the dozens.
I remember getting Lethal League Blaze for a friend to play with. no one plays online, but it was fun playing and watching each other grow and discover techniques
its actually called a discord fighting game because there's usually an active discord scene for most "dead" fighting games. A lot of games you wont fight games naturally in a que but if u find the dedicated discord , youll find many people who enjoy the game and actively play it
A true dead fighting game means that online services are no longer active and is no longer getting updates. Sometimes, the meaning gets deeper when the game is only playable online, such as Tekken Revolution, as no online service=no playability.
As of why Smash has a terrible netcode, in a video, Sakurai mentioned that he didn't want Brawl (and other games in the series) to have online play, let alone a good netcode but was told by Nintendo to implement it as it was becoming the standard for gaming at the time (and it still is). He thinks that online play was at odds with his vision of Smash as an "offline couch party game" and that the online experience was worse than the offline one (actually true, but making a bad netcode only exacerbates this issue, it's just putting it under the rug until it piles up), so Smash's online was pretty much poorly designed on purpose, even when Bandai Namco was in charge of it.
It would be a pity if a world event forced people to stay at home for a couple years, limiting offline couch play and forcing people to pass through Smash's awful online to play with others (good luck playing FFA there), which causes interest in playing the game to stay at float solely through DLC content.
Another thing that really hurt dnf duel was that when a matchup was uneven, it was damn near unwinnable, not just against the top-tiers. Add to that the fact that the devs basically made it a point to look like they'd abandoned the game entirely, what could've ended up a great game is now a dead kusoge.
Never been a DoA player, but that hair color thing is DISGUSTING.
DNF Also had basically no defensive options, even worse for characters without a DP.
You block a single hit from striker and are either perma shield stunned until you get guard broken, miss a block and take the full combo anyway, or possibly have 1 attempt at guard canceling which even then can be predicted and was only possible with 100 MP.
DNF was the only game where I could play against a person in ranked who's similar rank to me, double perfect them 2 games in a row, and have no idea how good/bad they are as a player. It was literally option select at round start, and if I picked correctly and got 1 hit in at the start, they lost. Start the round with a 50%+ combo that puts them in the corner, they get up with the game's very limited defensive options, I guess/read which option, and they take another 50% combo and die. (playing ghostblade btw)
I don't blame Dan's team for making the game smaller. Trying to make games is such a difficult and volatile process that just getting it to a working state is a massive achievement in of itself. With the scale of the game being smaller, it allowed them to put more polish into it. I have no doubt that they're learned from their expereince and bring it over to making Rivals 2 and evem better game
the unfortunate thing with multiversus is that it's clear the devs care a ton about this game but they just haven't had the man power to keep up with everything going on because they pretty much only focused on getting the characters released up until marvin
I blame Warner Bros. for that. Ever since the management change that erased a great amount of animation and upcoming projects were cancelled, Multiversus was essentially doomed as Warner Bros. had no interest in anything related to their animated past. Why else did the game servers shut down without leaving beta at all?
Let’s not forget Pokkén Tournament on the WiiU and Switch, it was a unique spinoff of the Pokémon series that was mixed with the appeal of a modern Tekkén game. It tried to gain popularity but it couldn’t get the recognition a lot of people hoped for. Especially before 2020 and even more after Smash Bros Ultimate was released which mirrored the release of Arms alongside Splatoon 2.
the game was rigged from the start
Another bad decision was how there was basically 0 marketing for Pokken Tournament, especially at launch
To this day I’m still sad that Centralfiction never got a dub. Blazeblue was a series I had been playing since I was 9, and I loved all the English voices. So for the final game that concluded a story line that had been going on for almost 10 years to suddenly not have those voices hurt.
Well said. Sure Cross Tag Battle had an English dub, but I am pretty sure not too many cared when that was announced considering Arcsys ignored flan pleas for English dub DLC for Centralfiction, not to mention that it’s a non-canon crossover game so that announcement probably held less weight in that regard. Also, the botched handling of Cross Tag Battle essentially killed the BlazBlue franchise as a whole. Sad.
the case of rivals is pretty unfortunate, its genuinely one of the most fun platform fighers ive played that somehow caters to both casual and pro play perfectly, i forced some friends (one is a brawlhalla player and the other doesnt play fighting games) to try it even though they said they wouldnt like it but guess what, they absolutely loved it especially with all the workshop content it offers.
here's to hoping rivals 2 is just as good i guess
i totally agree with you, and to prove the casual side i recently replayed it with a friend after not playing it for months and we had a lot of fun
also Mollo supremacy, join the power of the minefield
Ranno gotta be my favorite character to play in any platform fighter
> all the workshop content
_You mean all the Ronald McDonald wannabes?_
@@LoraLoibu I have... (checks notes) workshop 368 characters installed and ZERO memes or cheapies in there. There's so much design gold. For the type of person who loves labbing out sequences in SSBU, there's basically infinite variety to explore. Even with RoA2 I'm still gonna play this game for life.
I love rivals but have two types of friends. One type plays it with me and loves it. The other type are Smash ultimate players who hated it because it wasn’t smash. So there’s that issue of fans of a certain series sticking to that series and only that series
I legitimately miss dnf duel. I think it’s a shame it died out so quickly, because it’s still really fun
I loved it. literally stopped playing because it would take 20 mins to get a match. So disappointing.
hopefully the new dlc boosts the playercount
@@typhoonbh maybe if it was released 6 months ago. I'm putting my effort into SF6 now with the rest of the world. Also surprised you didnt mention SFxTK although I think we all know what happened there.
I mentioned SFxTK in my videogame price vid, so I decided not to mention it in this video
@@typhoonbhI'm just hoping it breathes some sort of life into the game. I hope the devs can shut the "dead game lol" crowd up.
I liked your story about Rivals of Aether. I appreciate when stories of gamestudios leaders are told. It's hard for me to find videos of who are the leaders. What ideas do they bring, where do they work and what is their story? So... I thank you for the content))
Glad you enjoyed it!
Another example could be how Marvel vs Capcom infinite drastically cut down the roster size by over half to comply with disney's brand synergy of the avengers movies, forcing capcom to cut back representation as well. And with a poorly recieved single player mide on top of it, Infinite is the worst recieved entry of MVC to date
there is one gameplay decision that many fighting games have for balance reasons........I am not saying that it is an inheriently bad decision, but it does have a (probably) unintended consequence.
this decision is putting a "knockback" in most if not all moves.
the problem with this decision is that it makes it harder for the casual players to practice the combos since you can press the buttons on the correct order and still fail because either you or your opponent moved one centimeter too far and that caused your combo to break.
You produce quality over quantity my friend so feel free to take as much break as you want if it means you keep providing us with this level of content. Have a good one
I appreciate it
Punishing button-mashing meta-spammers is a good thing .
While not really a fighting game, I'd like to highlight Omega Strikers. The game has a new patch every one or two weeks so no character is unbalanced for long. I wish more games would be so proactive when it comes to maintaining a balanced and fun roster.
That works for games like omega strikers, but for fighting games that's actually harmful. Balance patches every 3-5 months makes way more sense when it comes to fighting games
It's dead now :(. I really liked that game.
DNF had a massive fall off because it had insane hype in the fgc influencer bubble and it turned out that 99% of people don't like to play anime fighters. It's still an incredibly fun game if you are into it
its kinda crazy just how incredibly unpopular DNF was given how many people talked it up. it was like a case of ghost hype for the game being basically entirely centered around influencers and people making videos about it and it shows that even good positive word of mouth isn't always enough. Maximiliandood who is a massive fan of the game is up there with some of the most popular streamers on twitch and yet not even a fraction of a fraction of a FRACTION of the viewerbase even tried the game. how the hell does that even happen
I honestly think the real culprit behind DNF dying was the community. It is INCREDIBLY hard to stay passionate about a game when the entire fgc constantly says "oh, it's going to die/is already dead". Enough players unfortunately believed that, and left, leading to not enough players to actually get matches meaning those that wanted to keep playing could not. If there was some people in the community saying "hey, just stick it out a bit and keep faith", then the game would have survived. I honestly think the game was already in a decent spot after the first balance patch and if people kept playing it they would have realized that the game was fine. But by the time the amazing grand balance patch came around, the damage was done. I don't think spectre will fix the problem either, everyone is still going to say the game is dead instead of either keeping to themselves or trying to fix the issue.
That’s true, that’s why big content creators in the space have so much influence because once the word spreads that a game is “dead” it’s very hard to revive. I also think DNF took too long to release DLC because I think it could have at least kept player’s attention before the balance patch came
i think developers doing almost nothing with the game for that long killed the game. The game didn't respect the players so there is really no reason to have faith and wait till it gets good
When you mentioned a split between melee and brawl both gameplays were from brawl
i used melee tournament footage so if it was labeled wrong them my bad
Two of the biggest ones that come to mind are both ironically Capcom-related.
1. The cancellation of Capcom Fighting All-Stars led to the release of the absolute dud that was Capcom Fighting Evolution.
2. Street Fighter x Tekken's obsession over Gems and the dreadul decision that was _on-disc DLC_ that forever taints the legacy of this game.
I would say "The roster of Marvel Vs. Capcom Infinite," but it's less of Capcom's fault for faulty choices but moreso Disney's fault for being extremely petty over the rights of X-Men and the Fantastic Four properties and for generally being difficult to work with.
Nickelodeon all star brawl was a bummer because it could've been great, but felt like the developers had a shoe-string budget. They got the fundamentals right and the gameplay was really fun, but it was so damn barebones. No voice acting, very limited single-player options, etc. Smash Ultimate easily has 10x the amount of content. The full $50 game honestly felt like a free demo
Lets see how NASB2 goes. recently got released. looks pretty good so far.
only time will tell in the end.
I wouldn't say DOA6's fissure between fans was due to fanservice per se, but rather a multitude of reasons.
The game just didn't have a direction.
- Features, modes and content removed from DOA5, which was acclaimed as the definitive DOA game by many and only stopped receiving support 2 years prior
- awful business practice, which was way worse than DOA5
- poor pr, with the famous EVO Japan incident. Fun in retrospective, but it did showcase the developers had no idea who they were targeting their game to
DOA6 was simply a "just fine" game, at a time where the competition was too much for "just fine", and a huge downgrade than the previous title. They simply lost all momentum.
Team Ninja is doing good nowadays, so we might get a DOA7 eventually, but not if that means repeating the same mistakes
Yeah just saying "DOA6 did poorly bc no lack of fan service" is just lazy.
@@hjblacdes61 I did mention the predatory dlc though 6:24 I just didn’t go into detail or else that would just be a whole video on it’s own
@@typhoonbh yeah, that's fair. as someone who lived inside that for a whole year, i was able to see all the horror unfold 😓
sure there's still the whole fanservice stigma, but that was honestly the least of the many DOA6 problems
What happened at EVO Japan?
@@deco7217 they hosted a panel to promote DOA6 before release, and people were expecting some news about the content of the game or a showcase of mechanics. It was EVO, after all.
But instead it was mostly a comedy sketch, with two Japanese models making sexy jokes and playing around with the camera. It was even taken down by Twitch and Evo had to apologize for it, with the infamous "core values" quote.
Now, as much as i disagree with EVO and Twitch's strict and unbalanced guidelines about content (I mean, MK11 was shown right after DOA6, and they had a whole fatality where Baraka cut away Sonya's face and ate her brain), i do have to agree that was a shitshow.
There's nothing wrong with fanservice and playing around, but that was EVO. you were promoting the game to fighting game fans. That's not what most people wanted to see, myself included as a longtime fan.
In hindsight, i would bet they simply had nothing to show 😒
But still, it was probably the first example that they had no idea who they were making this game for
I haven't seen a notifcation from you in a few months -- this video is a massive upgrade in quality compared to previous works, its so jarring to know this is from the same creator, loved the video hope you keep this line of quality.
That's good to hear!
King of Fighters 15 had a problem with ranked matchmaking. Crossplay patch appears to have helped though.
KoF15 had only 2 options for ranked: 'match me with anybody on the queue' or 'wait 30 minutes for a perfect match' with nothing in-between.
The game itself and netcode is good. It's got the same party vibe as SF6. Although I don't know, 15th ws my entry to the series.(and I don't know, I'm writing this third time. It might have been automodded,or sorry).
3:23 Losing mmr for winning is crazy. They really want you to dominate every game you play against low ranks.
I was amused that they complained about the DLCs in DOA being that the FGC are the ones that bought 3 reissues of Street Fighter V with all its DLCs that are as many as those of DOA and even Tekken 7 that also has many and even charges to know the frame data, and even worse that SFV came without any content. If only they were equally critical of all games they wouldn't be getting their wallets fisted with every game that comes out.....
I think its the fact that DOA takes it way further than other games
what SF and Tekken have that DOA doesnt is a good reputation and die hard competitive community. the promotion of the franchise put all their eggs in one basket, which unfortunately led the game to not really be respected enough for high profile events. when they tried to walk back on that legacy, people went into weird culture war panic about them censoring the booba (which they didnt even follow through with). all in all, they were doomed no matter what they did because they also couldnt have just done the exact same things they did for DOA5. but then they "strayed" a bit and got dragged. that being said, they did give up way too early on it, which SF didnt do.
very unfortunate because 6 is genuinely really fun and would make for a fun game to spectate. speaking as a fan, i dont really think a DOA7 is in the cards for the near future like at all.
@@kula3368 That explains more but it also doesn't take away from the fact that many of the guys who complained about DOA 6 receive similar treatment from their beloved franchises and yet don't get as upset
@@damianateiroIt's drawn criticism for sure, but when you have the prestige (and support) that Tekken or SF have you can put your fans through a lot and still keep them around. also worth noting that SFV in particular never stopped receiving content and neither did T7. here's to hoping namco is a little nicer to consumers with tekken 8.
I was part of the Smash community and I totally support Nintendo's decission to not sponsor the competitive scene. It's too much of a financial risk.
I'm not quite sure why rivals is on the list, unless switching back to game maker studio is the decision that "killed the game"? I'm pretty sure every decision in the past couple of years for rivals has only revitalized the game. rollback, definitive edition, workshop, a decently sized roster, frequent balance patches etc.
I'm always happy to see rivals of aether get some love, but it definitely didn't die and isn't really comparable to anything else on this list.
good video overall though!
I changed the title to more accurately represent the video, because not every game on this list is dead.
@@typhoonbh genuinely goated
Trying take out sexiness out of DOA is like trying to take out gore out of MK it will fail every time
saying that rivals is a dead game is very far from the truth, averaging 500 concurrent players makes it the second biggest indie fighter on steam only behind yomi hustle's 600 players, it beats out skullgirls's 300 players and even some non-indies like bbcf's 250 players. The game has actually been growing constantly since it came out if you look at the steamcharts, tons of content is still being made for it and it even gets featured at many smash majors as a main event alongside smash.
A game that would probably have been better to talk about is rushdown revolt, the gameplay is incredible but mediocre graphics, tons of bugs, basically zero singleplayer content and some bad decisions by the developers mean the game has almost no one at all playing it and it's a huge shame. If you want a platform fighter with speed even beyond melee's, absurd combos, mvc3 levels of character power and super unique characters, rushrev is fully f2p offline and f2p people can join the lobbies of people who bought the online, so just download it, join the discord and ask for matches, we need more people playing this hidden gem of a game
The Rivals segment is blatantly false. Cheating has never been an issue within rivals, although gamemaker does have its limitations, primarily in netcode, which is still miraculously good considering how long it took to implement rollback into the game at all. Its competitive player base is comparable to most other mainstream fighting games, the difference is that rivals caters to the competitive community almost entirely which by proxy limits its scope. There have been more issues with prominent community members stream sniping smash players than any kind of blatant cheating (i have 2.5k hours, never encountered a single cheater) and that has arguably stifled community growth more than anything the devs have done. That being said, rivals is still an extremely active scene and claiming it's dead because it's purposefully not free to play in order to stop cheaters is some real "my source is I made it up" shit
I never said rivals had a cheating issue?? I said game maker itself can be exploited easily but they were able to make safeguards for that, most of what I said literally came from dan himself: fornace.medium.com/why-isnt-rivals-of-aether-free-to-play-1ca2750831db
The video is about decisions that harmed fighting games, even in the intro I specified that, I did not say that every game on the list is "dead"
Finally Peak YT analysis. My goat has returned.
Makes me like fighting games again
That's good to hear
2:47 the song in the background is tides by HOME.
NRS having a consistent 2 year development turnover definitely kept things fresh, but every previous game was then dropped like old toys for the new game and left ghost towns. MK11 then lasting 4 years definitely left it feeling tired and stale towards the end.
Now, considering what happened with Skullgirls, I wonder if they have enough time to back pedal that desition.
They stopped making content for doa 6, they'll most likely focus on making doa 7 now
It's pretty damning they still haven't buffed painwheel, game is probably over, it's what the people really crave.
What happened with skullgirl ?
@@placeadrien5566 New staff decided to censor and change a lot of stuff in the game for ridiculous reasons and also in the digital art book and fans were angry for very valid reasons.
The only people who were mad about what happened with Skullgirls were people who didn't play it anyway. Player numbers pretty much saw no change.
Apparently Nickelodeon all star brawl is getting a sequel with jimmy neutron, vlad and el tigre added. Theres still a small community dedicated as well as they secretly added cross play without anyone knowing
As someone who played DoA competitive at some point. It was not the DLC that we primarily gave it flack for. It was the combat systems being 10x dumbed down than the last game. Adding meter and one button bullshit. The sidestep was powerful in the meta. Japanese players hated it enough to get it changed.
Honestly, I think Sakurai was forced to make it more of a party game by Nintendo. Melee's mechanics were nerfed from 64, with a lot of options added for both offence and defense, so from the beginning he was focused on making a "hitstun chaser" fighting game, where you'd be rewarded with more time to catch up to your opponent hitstun if you could soft land (what Sakurai called L cancelling in the smash 64 manual) plus adding a way to escape combos with DI, And he still says he thinks Melee plays the sharpest. I think Nintendo wanted to preserve their family friendly persona and told him to knock it off with the complex tech.
Yeah I doubt this is true lol sounds more like coming to a conclusion to fit your views on the series lol
@@DANCERcow that's what "I think" means bub
You can "think"? 😮 Could a fooled me! Lol
Didn’t Sakurai literally admit to making the game more casual. Idky so many people seem to love defending Sakurai and making him innocent.
This sounds like a complete fabrication. Nintendo didn't give a shit about the complex tech and tell him to tone it down. They just wanted more Smash and more dollars. I have NEVER heard a quote from Sakurai that says Melee "plays the sharpest" whatever that vague compliment means.
Honestly most fun in rivals came from the goofy custom character workshop. Almost got it on console until i realized it didn't support the workshop lol
DNF duel can still make a comeback with the new update
I've played Rivals of Aether since 6 years. Orcane was probably my main in the game
4:22 It was definitely mostly Nintendo's fault. Panda doesn't that kind of sway.
I edited the pinned comment after people told me
0:00 I see.
So if a small number of devs on Rivals of Aether were getting more done in 2 hours in GM Studio than weeks in Unity that may mean the game would not have released at all if they'd gone the Unity route. If they made enough to hire professional devs to make their next game in Unreal then that would actually make their strategy a success. GM Studio 2 has improved net code a lot. Speaking from experience working in and understanding how to do most things in 2d is dramatically easier in Game Maker compared to Unity. They still didn't go with Unity for the second game so in reality that's similar to asking them to learn 3 game engines before making the game.
Freedom Planet 1 was made on Clickteam Fusion. It was a success, and Freedom Planet 2 was made on Unity. The devs either had more time to learn, or more professional dev's help the second time around. In theory RoE would have done better if released on a different game engine, but it might not have been released at all then. Some of the bigger more profession game engines simply aren't optimized for the reasources indie devs have to make them.
- "improve"
- Shows something from Str*ve
I enjoy the comedic contrast between your words and the visuals you use.
Nickelodeon All-Star Brawl still has an active competitive community on PC! :) It's a Discord fighter at this point but the scene hosts multiple online brackets every week
If I was someone who played and enjoyed the game despite it's flaws, where would I go to find this?
At least with Rivals 2, unlike the first time, it is intended as big game. Of course if it lives up to that is the real question, but the devs have talked about how that influences design philosophy and the potential monetization model. I really hope it does well because Rivals has been an absolute joy to play and gave me exactly what I wanted in a competitive plat fighter when I was tired of Ult.
I wish rivals got more of the spotlight :(
ive never had cheater problems in rivals but i mostly play local with the boys and use workshop characters
although since rivals 2 is a 3d game i feel like modding will be alot harder due to modelling and such
The two games will probably exist side by side becuasr of that. Rivals 1 for the workshop, and Rivals 2 for more standard competitive
you should have a look at slap city, it was made by the same devs as nick all star brawl and all their games are pretty underated
Pretty happy DNF duel is getting a full dlc season witnew game mechanics, even crazier buffs, 4 new characters. Etc
Smash Bros Brawl proves what Sakurai knew all along. He doesn't NEED the Smash community at all to make a successful game. Catering to your hardcore fanbase is what killed games like that Nickelodeon one.
Hey Ty, Nice video!
A quick comment on the flying elements throughout the video. Try to lessen the ease out and increase the ease in of the position values. Right now, it looks like you’re operating at a 0 - 100 curve which is why the elements leave the screen way too quickly then have a huge dampening effect when coming in. I suggest a 50 - 90 value on the elements leaving the screen and then a 90 - 50 value when the other element comes IN to the screen.
Hope this helps you create smoother, more natural motion. Cheers!
I’ll experiment with that next time, thanks for the tip
wait huh? i just found your channel what the heck is going on
@@ThePoodle what do you mean?
Other dead fighting games of note:
Super Smash Bros 4
Playstation Allstars Battle Royale (is this even a fighting game?)
Add a 6th one to that one: Whatever the hell Skullgirls thought they were cooking with their update lmao
Ive really liked doa since 2, and i was excited for 6 to tone down the ecchi to try and expand the player base. The more forward facing changes like making base costumes less horni werent even bad, and there was still plenty of smut for the people who were into it, though system changes left more serious players let down. Sadly, it turns out that as someone who just wanted to be able to see a cool, smoothly animated game be played more competitively, i was in a very small minority. DOA always was, and now sadly still is, just a softcore eroge that people will make fun of you for having in your library.
Go back to your church, prude.
Slight correction on the smash bros section, Panda was basically slandered by vgbootcamp and other catty TOs. Long version: smash world tour wasn't good for a license because tournaments weren't up to code on security at events (The bouncers didn't really check anyone, let in banned players, left after a certain time, and were only like 15 for an venue of hundreds) and violating agreements as far as announcements. They moved recklessly, then blamed it on panda instead of taking responsibility.
Wow as usual contexts adds the truth that most of the issues that competitive Smash Bros community complains about blaming Nintendo and panda etc were actually the competitive Smash Bros community all along lol
@@DANCERcow I have a theory, that smash bros is part of the "toxic kid-centered entertainment enjoyed by adults" community archetype, so spoiled man-children and infantile egomaniacs are attracted to it like moths to a flame. I'll keep it a buck, if trad fgs are anime, smash bros is mlp. I go to tournaments and can tell you that most people are chill on the local and regional level, but the highly known names on the major level have as many gross people as any other kid-intended community
To me, no recent example shines brighter than Nickelodeon All Star brawl. That game came out the gate running with a nostalgia fueled trailer and some fairly in-depth character tutorials, and everybody was theorizing about who would make the roster and who wouldn’t, but then it came out that the game didn’t have voice acting. And then the game itself came out and some very prominent characters were not in it, while a lot of characters that people had no clue about were. Like it’s perfectly OK to market your newer franchises in your game, but there was no reason for the loud house to have two representatives when shows like the Fairly OddParents and jimmy neutron didn’t have any. When you pair that with the rest of the games presentation, such as its sound design and music, neither of which generated any hype, the game was dead a few weeks after it came out.
at the very least, they added voice acting and items in a free update later
Also, the competitive side was mostly a mess of infinites and hand cramping control schemes so it's "high ceiling" didn't really become as popular as was advertised.
DNF duel comeback? Who'd have thought Epic Games would bring people back to the game
OKAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY Typhoon upload been WAITING for this!
Hopefully it was worth the wait
Is it weird to want nick brawl to not follow the platform fighter formula and instead the 3d/2.5d anime style arena combat? It'd just be reminiscent of Nick Forces and since the game's competitive scene was dead from the starting pistol, they could've went the Shrek All Stars route.
You have wrong information on the smash world tour and the blame is heavily on the organizer of smash world tour .
6:04 so people just forgot about how DOA5 did the same thing? That's what the I'm a fighter campaign was for in the first place.
4:44 Wait, those are both Brawl.
It’s funny how all the points you’ve made in this video should apply to a game like UMvC3 but here we are getting ready to watch it at EVO this year
there's always outliers
I appreciate how civil you were regarding Nick Brawl’s shortcomings, it’s pretty common anymore for people to complain about every single facet of that game
And yes there is an underground community that still plays, it’s the Nick Brawl Grinders server, I believe it just recently went public
4:25 Nah, it was mostly VGBootcamp lying about the being sustainable, then weaponized its audience to go against Panda. Nintendo just refused to make threats with VGBC, which makes sense due to lack of regulations who had caused issues in the past. Don't get me wrong, Nintendo HAS DAMAGED competitive smash in the past due to an outdated and stubborn 80's japanese mentality, but sometimes is the own community who ruins it.
I keep remembering that DoA only has 5 mainline game lol
Every time I hear someone say that it was Panda’s fault the SWT got cancelled and not Gimr/VGBC’s, I start hating the community more. Also brawl was bigger and more popular than melee for almost its entire lifespan until the melee documentary came out.
Would you care to explain? That drama mostly went over my head, I just know that Panda sponsored players left in droves.
@@TweakyCSS Basically, Panda had NOTHING TO DO with the World Cup. The issue is that the tournament wasn't sustainable and Nintendo did not wanted to support VGBC due to lacking proper security norms, which considering what happened 3 years ago... Yeah, they had all the rights to do so. That being said, Panda was awful at handling the situation yet the community cancelled their cup.
Honestly, for people like this is that Nintendo doesn't want to support Smash.
I got a friend who has over 600 hours in NASB. Shout out to Papa Mac, Korra main ✌️
As a nasb player, yes we do have an underground community :)
Strive can't fix lobbies or hacker man. This pretty much killed it for a lot of people. For a bonus sfxt never ever fixed insanely broken pc netcode, literally waste of cash, I'm still salty about it. SfV never properly implemented fully working rollback either - another 60€ wasted, never played it after the first few hours, and when community tried to fix it - they stopped it, Jesus christ.
I'm surprised BBTAG wasn't here, making more than half the roster DLC didn't really seem wise.
SUPER SMASH BROS BRAWL IS THE BEST SUPER SMASH BROS GAME!
Brawlhalla actively ignores the player base's recommendations for balancing that is obviously needed. Its still gonna be alive cause its free, gives out free rewards via twitch drops for every weekend, and connections to ubisoft, nick, Hasbro, etc.
The current meta right now is annoying to play and it has been the least fun meta for the last 5 years with them dropping lackluster changes needed for bad weapons/broken weapons.
Uh you're completely misinformed about the whole smash tour and panda cup situation none of that was Nintendo's fault; it was community TO's being salty and jelly and sabotaging and imploding their own community where they saw others getting success where they didnt.
Nintendo tried to help and was working well with panda, building a relationship with them for over 3 years; it was later found out in a long pod cast interview with hungry box, Alan, and other community leaders that swt just tried relentlessly to make alan and panda look like bad guys all becuz they refused to work alongside Nintendo for the years while panda did. They werent forcibly shut down but told after their championship for 2022 things would have to change. And so swt shut their own championship finale down, pocketed all donated prize money as collateral, and decided if they cant have a piece of the pie they were going to smear alan as some bully or manipulator in charge of shutting them down. It was those in charge of SWT that ruined the fun for everyone by turning the mindless masses hungry for drama against panda.
Alan had been in the smash community as a TO for over 15 years before Panda's relationship with Nintendo ever began, and helped many local scenes thrive and grow to become big time tourneys we all enjoy today; there's a long history of all that. No one would be as petty as SWT tried to make Alan look, all becuz they were bad at being business partners and salty over it. No one becomes a TO in the fgc community to make bank, TOs are always in the red.
Its a job you take upon yourself out of the passion for fighting games, not to be rich and famous but swt out of their own pettiness made sure panda fell along side them; and all it worked by stirring up people against each other with misinformation. Becuz people love an easy, simple to follow drama where the rich ceo bad guy takes the fall, rather than looking at the nuance of EVERY one involved in the entire situation, that no one is rly the bad or good guy, its just business.
those salty johns in charge of SWT fooled us all; only for a short time but that was enough of a time to get panda cup shut down when panda did nothing wrong but play ball with Nintendo.
Nintendo DID NOT actively shut down the swt finale; their licenses and legality were being reviewed as they refused to work on friendly terms with the company while Panda had been fostering a trust with them. They were still gonna be allowed to do their one big last thing, but instead swt organizers just threw a crybaby fit over not being chosen like panda was, and so went and ruined things for all of us
yeah I mentioned the mistake in the pinned comment
Them's Fightin' Herds should be added to this list, since the devs decided to stop development completely after the last 2 SEASON 1 DLCs are out... even though they surpassed their indiegogo campaign goals and said campaign promised a full, 7-chapter long story mode...
It’s a shame, I remember picking up the game when it was free on epic for a little bit, haven’t played it since.
DNF Duel is a pretty good game now, but the damage is done. I would love to see it get the treatment GBVS got, but that seems a bit unlikely. I actually like this game better in some ways, but it's hard not to compare them, and as a product its inferior (less content, smaller roster). I love DNF and hope it sticks around as a niche pick, but there's always gonna be bigger games pulling people away from it.
Multiversus did a couple key things that made it unplayable for me. The 2nd biggest was not having a block button, to me that just made the game feel "less" than Smash. The big killer though, was not being able to easily play the game offline. Not supporting local play in a platform fighter is like a cardinal sin, I don't understand how people were able to play this game.
DOA5 is, in my opinion, the most under rated 3d fighter of all time (with good reason but still). The "Visual appeal" was a successful marketing strategy for them, but detractors like to take this as evidence of a low quality game, never taking a look under the hood. The actual gameplay was fire, plus it had tag battles, so playing that game with a group of friends, even casually, was mega fun. You just stick the stronger players with the weaker players and teach them how to team combo, suddenly you got 4 people having a great time. I also like that there was no meter in the game, and the big super move was a big charge move that you typically had to combo into.
I could go on about how landing that blowback super was cool (it had an environmental aspect as well, and it could be countered if you call it out, the stun system was wild), or how it had the best roster of any DOA (4 guest characters from virtua fighter and Mai from FF). The point is, DOA 6 lost the plot. The overly stimulating characters are something I feel the game gets undeserved criticism for, seeing as how Tekken characters are just as unrealistic. You could argue the exorbitant price to get all the bikinis was ridiculous, and you'd be right, but let me just point out that cosmetics are now the industry standard for continued monetization of your game, and we hardly bat an eye about it now. In that regard the game was ahead of its time (still not a good thing, they went pretty crazy with their dress up dolly games).
Enough time has passed that I can see why people aren't usually willing to have this conversation with me. In the other side of things, before Tekken 8 came out I found myself wanting to play other 3d Fighters, so I was rotating VF5, T7, and DOA5. Obviously I'm biased to prefer DOA5, but while I was there one of the people I played with left me with a bad experience that put things in perspective. He would not play the game if you locked in a male character, and if the outfit you picked wasn't showing enough skin, he would tell you "you pick bad outfits" and try to encourage you to pick a "beauty outfit." It was super cringe, and in general I hate it when dead game communities do things like this that keep games dead. How am I supposed to convince people to play this with me knowing they might have to deal with that?
So while the decision to move away from "appeal" towards a more Esports style was kinda questionable, since that was such a part of the game's identity, it was also kinda necessary in a way. It is hard to know what would have happened if they had stuck to their "guns" (hehe), but they definitely missed both marks with 6. Frankly, I think the meter was a bad move, I find that 3d Fighters in general need to avoid meters like 2d, Soul Calibur 5 is unplayable to me, and 6 was kinda meh, but part of that is just...meters in 3d Fighters are weird. T8 heat is probably the only exception, they thought really hard about how that was going to make the game better instead of just adding it just to make the game flashier.
N.A.S.B. is getting a sequel.
And now NASB2 has released.
it will be interesting how it goes the next few months.
In order for a game to succeed it has to add a forbidden box cameo/easter egg in it think of all the popular games, they have me in them eg. Tetris
minecraft too
Where in the world did you get that cheat idea in rivals???
Yes it’s true that game maker studio is the cause of a lot of rival’s problems. Cheating should not be one of them because a game altered client side would just cause a desynch in the peer to peer netcode resulting in players crashing back to menu and the cheater not being awarded a win because it’s not verified on the other person’s game.
I’m very curious to know your source.
Dan talks about a bit here: fornace.medium.com/why-isnt-rivals-of-aether-free-to-play-1ca2750831db
What was the music that played in the Multiversus section?
Am I the only who thinks that marvel v capcom infinite had a chance to become a great fighting game, even though I still play that game and enjoy I understand why people didn’t like it, I guess that’s one video idea I’m throwing out there, title could probably be “did marvel v capcom have the potential to be a successful fighting game?”
good video! should do a part two with different fighting games
DNF duel still has not a single dlc character released yet
They just announced one recently
Return of the 🐐
Icons was another one that died, and I think it was one that more plat fighter developers should look at what NOT to do when making a competitive plat fighter. Your marketing should not lean on "Smash but with dev support and an indie coat of paint", because the community is already very insular. Worst yet, whenever you are branded as a "Smash killer", this is the pattern you go through:
1. Get hype from trailers/dev roadmap discussion and content creators
2. Game comes out, server inflation occurs because of smashers rushing to try the new thing.
3. Smashers realize it's not smash (and subconsciously I think they like Smash for more than just the depth, things like visual polish and franchise power are unparalleled for the series and Smashers are drawn unknowingly more to that than they want to admit), they leave but not before the game's resources like servers were overextended/burdened with the people that came just to try for the launch release.
4. Game gets a huge fallout, which compounds frustration with those that want to play, but are stuck in long queues. Also intimidates new growth because you have very little entry point, matchmaking will more often match you with diehard players and newer players often quit when faced with no "gradual" ease into skill progression.
I think Rivals of Aether, Rushdown Revolt (which bought the assets from Icons after it died ironically), Flash Party, and Brawlhalla are doing the right things and doing just enough in either marketing or mechanics to keep a community that wants that flavor specifically the game offers.
I agree with this except for flash party
@@strickshot I gave it more time, and now I'm less about Flash Party since they introduced the sticker system. Still, while I don't think it's a game to my liking, I think Flash Party will enjoy a small amount of success being one of the only plat fighters on mobile (already has a fairly big fan base in Southeast Asia)
@@ph1lny3 true
“It’s been 6 months and there has only been two balance changes” that is an absurd statement. Unless your game is a total balance disaster (kind of like that one was I suppose) a game needs time and in the past, games wouldn’t get rebalanced for at least one year with a new edition of the game. There needs to be time to find tech and learn the game.
Well it was a balance disaster and it took 6 months to really address it, that was my point. That’s why everyone started complaining in the first place.
@@typhoonbh they tried to say fuck it and make their game fun and not worry about balance but they blew it. Idk if I’ve seen such a hard bag drop.
I’m guessing the actual reason: “Being a fighting” isn’t on here.
The genre is very much like mobas, too hard or confusing for new people while the old fans will stick to their original game/franchise. At least fighting games have the benefit of good single player or couch party options
The barrier to entry is something that most fighting games deal with so I didn't include that, but platform fighters have a lower barrier to entry because of the simple controls and combos but still a high skill ceiling like other fighting games.
@@typhoonbh Thanks for the clarification I didn’t have time to fully express my final thought: I would argue that fighting games in general can’t die. Unlike mobas which have online and multiplayer in the name, fighting games can and will always be able to be played offline and I think that where they shine the most.
is this blank banshee or home that you've got going for background music? i'm blanking on my vaporwave but i'm digging it
yeah the first song is from otis mcdonald and the rest is HOME's discography
What's the outro music? Very nice and concise video btw!
HOME - 10
NASB was better than multiverses imho but I dropped it all the same. 🤷♂️
SFV releasing in the state it did should count as one of if not the worst decision in the history of the genre. it lowered the standard for fighting games to an incredible degree to the point where games like Tekken7 at launch seemed good by comparison because at least it was better then the absolute barebones that was SFV. even though it still had massive issues to this day.
I don't think it would be fair to say SFV almost killed fighting games in terms of having any mainstream appeal what so ever and only until very recently has that changed, for fucks sake we're only NOW getting acceptable online play as a core feature
Honestly, I doubt Rivals 2 will be able to live up to the first. Modding for the game will likely be much more difficult than before, and drive off a large number of the playerbase.
4:45 that isn't Melee