Star Wars - Jedi Fallen Order Critique | Very Good Lipstick
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 ก.ค. 2024
- A Critique of Star Wars Jedi Fallen Order.
SOCIAL MEDIA: MontyZander
PATREON: / montyzander
ZOLTIBOI'S CHANNEL
/ @zoltiboi
I MADE MY GIRLFRIEND PLAY DARK SOULS
• Dark Souls | Noobus Hu...
EA’s Respawn’s Star Wars Jedi: Fallen Order (presented by Lucasfilm) is a clumsy game, but it's got some very good lipstick. And I'm not just talking about the Star Wars of it all either.
This is the Star Wars game that I wanted since… forever. I get that some of you will have fond memories of Force Unleashed, and The Force Unleashed 1 and 2 was great, but the lightsaber game I have fond memories of is actually Revenge of the Sith. For a licenced game it let me live out my Jedi power fantasy, and my sister and I would lose hours in the multiplayer duels.
So when I saw Fallen Order’s E3 Demo, I thought… hell yeah, sure. If the developer behind Titanfall and Apex Legends was getting a crack at a single-player Star Wars action game, I was all for it. And they’re borrowing from the Soulslike formula to boot? Well I can’t get enough of a decent Soulslike! But even though I was interested in the game, I couldn’t help but feel like Respawn were trying to please the crowd, rather than carving their own path. They’re rearing a pig and sloppily slapping some second-hand lipstick on it.
But I know I’m not alone in saying that Jedi: Fallen Order was an engaging and pleasant surprise when I finally sat down with it. It’s a solid adventure, with a fun story, addictive combat, and any of its flaws - of which there are a fair few - often get batted aside when you unwrap some more of the glossy Star Wars packaging.
TIMESTAMPS
0:00:00 - Introduction: Lipstick On A Pig
0:06:30 - Episode 1: The Phantom Tutorial
0:34:25 - Episode 2: Attack of the Level Design
0:54:34 - Episode 3: Revenge of the Gameplay
01:22:04 - Episode 4: A New Force
01:39:12 - Episode 5: The Lipstick Strikes Back
01:54:38 - Episode 6: Return of the Jedi
FOOTAGE/REFERENCES USED
1) Madeyewlook: • Darth Maul (Star Wars)...
2) Jordan Hanz: • Darth Sidious Star War...
3) Jeffree Starr: • Video
4) Glam and Gore: • Why I Won’t Stay At Th...
5) danielzrotfl: • Star Wars - Twilek Mak...
6) CharmieJanee: • BABY PINK PLUMPED + GL...
7) Amber Rose Oatman: • ABH Lip Palette "Green...
8) Monique Matos: • Rainbow lips- inspired... - เกม
![[TH] VCT Pacific Stage 2 - Week 3 Day 3 // DFM vs PRX | DRX vs TLN](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/il3Twexat3A/mqdefault.jpg)
Hey I am new to your channel and love what you put out! Your Bloodborne lore video was the first soulsborne lore video that didnt put me to sleep and I was immediately hooked. I just wish I knew why your video compression/rendering leaves everything blurry. It is by NO MEANS a dealbreaker for me, but I spent a while trying to fix my monitor before figuring out my gear wasn't the problem. Hope you figure it out, but as for content keep doing what your doing its great!
Hey man! Cheers! Yeah so it just comes down to my laptop. Its a piece of junk, so any videos longer than like 35 minutes just don't render at 1080p - not that they take ages, it just crashes the whole thing. The random splotches (like at the start of this video) will need to continue on the longform essays until I launch a Patreon or something to fund a proper PC to work from 😂.
I'll probably pin this comment if you're cool with it - means my explanation can stay at the top!
@@MontyZander Fine with me! I appreciate the response! I figured it had to be a hardware issue but I had similar issues years ago and it was just a setting I screwed up. Totally get it and I look forward to more videos from you, cheers!
I keep hearing tell of this Bloodborne lore video, but I cannot find it. Is it still up? Am I being dense?
Can anyone help me out?
"Your telling me every time a padawan had to get their first lightsaber Yoda had to remelt this ice?"
Yes. This is established lore from the cartoon. We see him do it. The game's just being consistent here. The puzzle itself could still be better, though.
I fucking loved the poncho aesthetic. It was a great sort of "middle ground" between his utilitarian scrapper past and the majestic robes of the Jedi.
The Man With No Name aesthetic fits the character well. Both drifters and free agents of the greater good.
1:33:58 Sekiro does have a narrative reason, the divine power that you use to revive yourself through gameplay is "your" divine power that you gained, but when you don't have enough divine power to revive yourself it steals from the life essence of living things to revive you, this process being longer than the gameplay one. That's the reason that when you die you spread corruption upon NPCs, because you stole a part of their soul from them, which is pretty bad and why the prince wants to server his immortality.
Brother, you have got to be one of if not the most underrated long form analysis TH-camr, and you got a fan for life here
😂 That's made my week. Thanks man!
true and it makes you wonder how many same quality essays are out there
Same
"The ice slides are widely criticised in Fallen Order"
Me: Wait, people hate them?
They are incredibly annoying for 100%ing the game because what they all are essentially are one way paths, which is horrible in a game with no fast travel. So if you miss one collectible on the way up to the top of the origin tree you have to get to the top fly down and climb the entire thing again. One way paths also don't really lend themselves to choice or anything.
Some of y'all never learned the precision evade+kick and it shows
The Order 66 scenes were incredible, chills every time.
The Vader stuff with the music, sound effects and Trilla, oh Trilla, I replayed the entire game multiple times just to re-experience (it's a word...) those moments.
I like to go back and watch TH-camrs react to the Vader reveal to experience it vicariously. So emotional, so well executed.
Yes, Yoda had to melt the ice each time. This is explained in Clone Wars season 5 episode "The Gathering"
But actually, Ilum as presented is consistent with other depictions. Cal showed up out of season.
In other media it is shown that gathering Kyber crystals is done during the summer solstice on Ilum as part of a religious pilgrimage and holiday, when the ice melts naturally.
The mechanism to melt the ice is there in case of emergency and was not traditionally used when gathering crystals.
So it is actually more ridiculous than as presented in the game, Yoda did not melt the ice every time a padawan needed to make a lightsaber, he just told them to wait until it melted on its own.
Also, as for why Trilla just leaves with the Holocron, her attemping to kill Cal could potentially snap him out of it, and he is holding both lightsabers, making that a dangerous bargain, also she can just get a new one, those are standard issue for her. Also, and most importantly, she is there for the holocron, Cal is small potatoes in comparison.
Him being totally stunned for a moment is a good opportunity to just grab it and walk away.
You forgot about cals secret weapon, plot armor
Id argue that Fallen Order uses the "follow the Yellow color" to teach not as the normal marker that sticks around 100% of the game. What I mean is look at the walls under the yellow at certain points, the shapes that are yellow. Instead of just being "always look for yellow" its more "See this thing that looks this way in the opening? Remember to watch for this shape/pattern". It teaches people what types of surfaces are climable, balancable, etc and once the player knows enough, end of Bracca, it takes the training wells off and lets the player think.
"let's the player think" except, instead of using color, it just uses shapes.
It is literally the same concept done slightly different.
@@James_Bee There HAS to be some sort of identifier used. Shapes blend better and then become less gamey.
There are a lot of gladiatorial death matches in the star wars universe when you really think about it.
I love both video games and makeup, and your way of using lipstick to describe how games use shiny, pretty things to sometimes cover up not-so-great mechanics (I hope mechanics is the right word for it) is such a great analogy. Your videos are amazing!
Thanks!
I really love how this game implements a LOT of lore present only in the 3d animated shows, Clone Wars and Rebels. CW is so good I feel a connection to any reference and I clap like the simplest of fans, too.
I hate the map in this game, I think 30+ % of my playthrough was just looking at the map and trying to figure out where to go.
Yea the map was easily my biggest gripe with it. Hopefully it improves with the sequel
I don't agree with this game being a pig. I loved this game, even I personally don't thinking of myself as a Star Wars fan. I didn't watched all the original movies and never understood all that hype for Darth Vader, but this game was só engaging, I loved the toughness of the combat and yhe plataforming, for me both were very engaging, I'm not a fanatical gamer, this was the third or fourth game that I finished, but it has a special place in my memory. For the first time i understood the fear of Vader walking after you, this immense power and ruthlessness was terrifying. I'll probably play uncharted and some souls games or Sekiro bc this game rocks. Can't wait to play Jedi Survivor
I'll comment for the algorithm god.
Vader's sudden appearance at the end is appropriate and not simply fan service, though it is that as well. From an overall plot standpoint we could expect Vader, and by extension the emperor, to be very interested in a holocron of force sensitive children that they either need to kill or turn into sith. When he hears that the holocron exists and Trilla has it it seems reasonable for him to show up in person to collect.
From a character arc perspective it seemed the best option for ending Trilla's story. First, it's hinted at that someone powerful was doing the torture. I was wondering the whole time who could turn so many jedis into inquisitors. Vader'd do it. Second, having Trilla turn to the light and join Cal and Cere or having her killed by either one would be... not terribly satisfying. Having her let go of some of her hate and then be immediately cut down by her teacher/torturer is, imo, a more fitting end.
Random offtopic thought but is it me or saw gerrera is shoehorned everywere he appears, its always like, oh cool we get introduced to a group of rebels, i wonder what original stories we will learn from them... oh wait its just saw gerrera leading a random band of freedom fighters another time
I feel like people spend way too much time comparing this to so many different games instead of just seeing it for what it is. A short story in the Star Wars universe. It doesn’t overstay its welcome nor does it do anything to necessarily stand out. Its a very solid game that plays it safe.
I mean it copies almost all it’s gameplay from dark souls
@@lewispooper3138 - Damn. And I guess roguelikes are just copying all of their gameplay from rogue. I think you are the smartest person I've ever met.
@@DrMontgomeryMontgomery thank you, slave
Agree. I thought it was a darn good game. Star Wars fans are impossible to please most of the time though. And I noticed that they will love something at first, then hardcore turn on it.
Nothing here is made in a cultural vacuum. Comparisons are inevitable
I think it's a little unfair to say JFO copied Sekiro considering they were only 8 months apart. Takes a lot more than that to make a game of this scale.
Kinda like how Sekiro and DMC 5 both did the prosthetic arm as a swappable tool which adds a great deal of variety and utility onto your core moveset. Despite the two games being very different, the Shinobi prosthetic and Devil Breakers are the same gameplay idea, executed the same way narratively. Both games released in such a short window it wouldn't be reasonable to say either of them copied the other, just both had a very similar idea in the same time frame.
Also i HATED the outfits for Cal. Literal pallet swaps for a poncho. Idk something that always bugged me to no end
On Illum, we see the planet in an episode of Star Wars the clone wars where are you have young Padawans going in, led by Master Yoda, to get their Kyber Crystals. He does have to melt the ice every time, but it’s kind of just automatic, no messing about, the window is open and so the light shines through and melts the ice
It's almost like the jedi were maintaining the temple and now that no one has been in it for years some of the ancient devices broke 😲
maybe i'm too consoomer-brained, but i honestly don't know if i share all the gripes about the start.
to be fair, I had never played a souls game or a 3d platformer, so I really needed to be babied on bracca haha
The music he's listening to is Mongolian throat music, I forget the band but it's real music
The band is "The HU"
It's worth noting that The Hu did write the song in an alien language, and just kept their own lyrical style
Honestly my biggest issue with Fallen Order was the lightsabre tbh.
You don't feel like a Jedi, you just feel like some random guy with a glowing bat
well.. that kind of is exactly what he is supposed to be, he was never a jedi master, he was a padawan whos training was cut short and who then cut himself off the force for 5 years.. doesn't mean I wasn't disappointed for the lack of force powers and at there was way too much platforming and climbing.. I have some hopes we get more combat and powers innthe sequel tho..
@@elitereptilian200 the combat is SUPPOSED to be awful
@@brandonthomas6602 what? where do you get that from? Its not supposed to be and it certainly is not, there just isn't enough of it and the lack of real powers sucks but the combat is far from terrible..
You said you can’t use the breather in any other planet except for Kashykk and Ilum but that’s wrong. Zeffo has a whole area you can swim in and Kashykk has a few more spots than just the origin tree. There’s more use to the breather tbh
In Bogano as well
Thanks for being here! Just another push for Zoltiboi's channel. I can't recommend him enough:
th-cam.com/video/2BE6jA57OSE/w-d-xo.html
Has anyone else watched Rebels? Please tell me I'm not the only one in love with this show.
Everyone said this ga,e was the best action Star Wars game ever. Finally played it on EA play and even got its Platinum trophy... but the story went nowhere, the characters seemed to contradict their own beliefs, and the backtracking.... God the backtracking!
Ayy thanks Monty!! I always come back to this video and read the comments, sadly havent found the time yet to watch it (I'd like to watch it in one sitting haha)
The respirator is useful on zeffo as well around the crashed venator, so it's not just the origin tree area where it's useful.
I disagree a bit with a few of your points about the opening hours of this game. I dont understand the problem with where BD-1 hands you a stim, yes it could be the intro for BD-1 as a whole, but having BD reveal its abilities to Cal naturally through progression feels as though these two characters are getting to know each other and the space between BD's intro and this moment is a few minutes, which makes this point somewhat inconsequential to me. The secret boss on Bogano though is one of the coolest parts. Oggdo Bogdo is one of the biggest difficulty spikes for unsuspecting players, and requiring first-time players to ram their head against this boss to progress would be infuriating. Having this boss instead be a reward for exploration, and a challenge for those good (or stubborn) enough allows for Respawn to keep its focus on narrative while satisfying the masochistic desires of veteran souls players. I do think that there could be more done to allow for Bogano to have a more satisfying exploration and narrative impact through gameplay, but I don't think the problem lies with the Oggdo.
I also disagree with your critique on its focus on platforming. Part of what I love about JFO is that it isnt just "another souls-like game". It brings in elements of metroidvania mobility progression, mixed with Zelda puzzle boxes and Uncharted platforming which combine to give this game its own flavor. They could have focused more on combat, but then it really would be just Jedi Souls, and while I think some of the best parts of JFO come from its strong combat system, it also has amazing moments stem from traversal and puzzles.
Anyway, despite my disagreements I want to say that I have been binging several of your analyses and have found them really enjoyable, and think you did an excellent job here!
Another great one man. Hope to see your channel grow soon because your content is top notch.
i know i didnt just hear you say "this pigs opening is weirdly stretched"....
Making me care about star wars again is this game biggest achievement. Considering it came out at the same time as 9th episode 💀
30 minutes in so far, but a question I need to ask after listening to this point, do games need to design sections so that it's just as enjoyable on a repeat playthrough? I don't think so. You mentioned that you didn't notice the pacing issues one your first playthrough, due to being wowed by the star warsiness. It only began to bother you the next time around. But I don't really think they, or any developer, needs to alter a vision or sequence, just to make sure it plays well next time around. Sometimes a game is just meant to be played once, you fan girl about it with your friends, and you move on. Well, that's how I've always felt at least.
I imagine you'll mention this later on, but fair criticisms for me, would be something like how jank some of the platforming can be and how that map feels a bit...meh. you get used to it, but it doesn't feel incredibly intuitive initially
I always considered this game more Metroidvania than Soulslike. The biggest differences are in the story telling and level design. Fallen Order is more labyrinthine with many locked areas you need upgrades to get to; emphasis on backtracking. It doles it’s story out much more concretely than a soulslike.
From a level design and presentation perspective I absolutely agree with you but it’s gameplay is clearly a Soulslike.
Ironically I think the Metroidvania design is my least favorite part of the game. There’s just too much retreading and the map UI is awful. They probably should’ve trimmed some of it.
@@WeMissDimebag I mean, is action game combat just souls combat? It’s not as weighty you have way more options moment to moment, and it’s difficulty isn’t as overwhelming.
@@Pimpgamer101it’s literally sekiro
@@willevensen7130 this game? Literally Sekiro? It’s way easier than Sekiro, and also has way more backtracking. The only time you need to backtrack in Sekiro is if you’re cleaning up extra stuff. And never for mechanical additions (other than breathing underwater and even then, only like 2 places.)
Me before playing a souls game: Boy this is such a deeply dedicated fighting system. I really have to pay attention to the enemy behaviors and learn each fight as if I’m some sort of space samurai.
Me after playing Elden Ring and Sifu: Boy these controls sure are clunky as all fuck.
Sifu isn't a soulslike, it's a brawler
i had no trouble with the platforming, and what i noticed was the texture of things instead of the color. i was only bothered by the climbing becuase it was too slow. climbing gear speed should have been the original speed.
I agree with the Meditation points and image training. I always thought it was because Jedi CAN see into the Future thanks to the Force, so Cal was looking into POTENTIAL futures in which he lost, until he was ready to face the challenge ahead.
I haven't played most of the games you critique. I am watching anyway because I am a father of 4 kiddos (13 and under), and I don't have a chance to play most games anymore. I think I enjoy them more (and understand them more) when you critique them.
New favorite channel.
Your canon interpretation of what happens in the meditation points is exactly what happens in a game called katana zero. I love it when games explain gamefied systems like respawning in lore.
Phenomenal work once again! Well done man. Absolutely love your deep dive critiques especially during these hard times 👊🏽🙌🏽
I wonder if the souls-esque elements came in later, and this was a originally a one-shot adventure game focused on story.
they were making an uncharted style star wars game and even got the writer for uncharted to lead it before EA said to kill it cuz single player games dont sell. i think this is just what came from it since this and the sequel is headed by the same lady i think.
@@Kris-wo4pj nope. fallen order was announced to be in development (as a "third person star wars game by respawn") a year and a half before the cancellation of visceral's star wars game. also, amy hennig, the writer for visceral's cancelled star wars game, did not work on fallen order. stig asmussen, director of god of war 3, headed fallen order and it's sequel.
“This pig’s opening feels achingly stretched.”
Another great, thorough and passionate review that I so appreciate in your style. I've been very back and forth about wanting to engage this game and I think this may have pushed me over the edge to try!
Thank you!
sadly Assassins creed will never be able to use the nemesis system as it is now patented by Warner Bros
You should watch the Bellular News video to get more information on that topic. Not all hope is lost.
The only thing I don't like about the combat, besides fighting animals, is that the game has a massive emphasis on being defensive rather than offensive. The balance is too skewed for me. Though, I think a mistake to make with this game is viewing it as a Souls-like. Does it take elements from them? Sure. But it's not one, it's an Action-Adventure Star Wars game. That's why it has platforming and puzzles. So if you go into it expecting it to just be a Dark Souls but in Star Wars, you're inevitably going to be annoyed with the parts that are not Dark Souls-like.
“Besides fighting animals”, oh boy, I appreciate the laugh. You have a good day
@@GDKF0238 Wut?
"New Knights of the Old Republic"
Hah.
Ahahaha.
Ahahahahahahahahaha
Laugh through the pain 🥲
@@Rhodion1019 Cannot cry.
Tear ducts broken from overuse.
great critique, i would say the only thing missing is why vader is there. vader has his base of operations on mustafar the same planet from revenge of the sith and is in the same system as the final planet in the game (you can see it in the game). vader is stated to be the one who breaks and makes inquisitors as well as overseeing them so it makes sense for him to be near their base of operations. not all of this is explained in game, but the vader being the one to frequently come by during the breaking of new inquisitors is so when theres a massive attack on the base that is right next to vaders base of operations, it would make sense for him to at least show up.
I love the music choices in this video! Especially around the order 66 flashback when you used the Manaan theme from KOTOR!
I feel like this critique is very flavored that you dislike mixing platforming with combat. The scale of Star Wars is very important of the theme, and travelling in this space is important for this. Thus the platforming part is a fun way to put the game in the scale and atmosphere of the Star Wars setting.
I think his point was more that he didn't think they were blended very well, and that the scale tipped a little into too much platforming
Star Wars is really bad with scale though. It’s why every planet is one thing
Deleted the game after about 5 hours when I realized Kyle won't change his dippers and will run the whole game with a load of shit in his pants.
Yeah okay this made me laugh thank you
@@MontyZander No problem mate 👍 Good for you that you could enjoy the game but for me the running animation just made the game not enjoyable. You don't now how hard I tried to like this title....
@@LordKenntax obviously not very if you got completely turned off by a walk cycle lol
@@TheWonkster 5 hours wasted is more than enough lol
Worst thing about it is the map
I knew absolutely nothing about Star Wars before playing Fallen Order, but I'm a total From Software shill. This game got me really interested in the lore of Star Wars, and I really have became a big fan thanks to it. The combat wasn't quite as crisp as sekiro. The dodge animation is borderline useless and the parry could use a little tightening up, but overall I found the combat absolutely addictive. I still go back and play this game just to pwn stormtroopers or dismember the fat trolls. The random bounty hunters popping up in levels occasionally was a highlight as well. The platforming was a bit much, but the levels are cleverly set up and absolutely gorgeous. Bosses are good. The story is fantastic. I just think it's an amazing game and I cannot fkn wait for the sequel
I feel that you may only have considered the dodge useless because of your experience with Souls, given that the dodge is ridiculously powerful in those games.
Cannot agree more lol this game got me into Star Wars. I wasn’t expecting the Souls like traits and it really helped me slip into it when I knew nothing else about what was happening.
Loved the video, I definitely feel the overall sentiment you conveyed. Whenever people ask me how I found the game, I always say "It's a good game, but a lot of things hold it back from being a great game."
I agree with the Star Warsy moments being BIG highlights, but I actually found the combat to be the worst part for me, I constantly felt like Cal's moveset was mismatched with how enemies play their engagement ranges, and before anyone screams "skill issue" I'm no noob, I've played plenty of combat focused games.
Thanks for putting so much time and effort into this.
PLEASE make more videos like this... This is the best long form review I have ever seen and I watch a lot of them.
I'm working on one for Kena: Bridge of Spirits as we speak!
@@MontyZander I unfortunately don't have a PS but I will check it out
one thing i love is that in this game cal doesn’t kill the bosses, but in the sequel cal is just killing bosses left and right. and i think it really shows how he has revolved and how he has changed as a character
Quick tip: blue is not purple. Your mentor's lightsaber is blue.
You may correct this later on, but I do want to defend the 'follow the yellow' thing you start with.
It's actually not the yellow you are following, it's the white along the edges of things you can grab onto. It almost looks like the paint has worn away from people grabbing onto it, and that stays consistent throughout the game and into the next game too.
I just did a third playthrough of Fallen Order (after completing Survivor) and I am glad I did. I'm watching people review the game now so I'm looking forward to everything else you have to say:)
I will say this though, the main criticism I have in this game is that the lightsaber doesn't feel like anything more than a baton. I played on GM so I sort of get it, but I think they should have made it more around guard-breaking to kill the humanoid enemies at least... you can't really do that with the monsters though.
I can see why they went in this direction but it does make you feel like you do not have a lightsaber sometimes... Fast travelling would have been nice too, mainly on Kashyyyk cos if you miss a collectable on the origin tree... it's a TREK to get it back.
Survivor gave us fast travel thankfully, that WOULD have been hell without it, and in NG+ it gives you a perk which massively amplifies damage done so that does make it feel more like a lethal weapon.
Yeah, but one-shotting security droids comes at the expense that a single blaster shot can nearly take you out. You're pretty much one or two hits from death. More realistic, maybe, but not easy, especially when you face a dozen or more adversaries, both melee and ranged.
@@KravMagoo no you’re right it totally flips the dynamics… the big boys go from being difficult to kill to really easy, and groups of enemies are far more challenging
how can you say that the tutorial is bad/too long, when you also say that you didn't notice it the first time around? the whole point of doing a slow drip tutorial is so that you don't notice it, and i thought that NOT noticing tutorials first time around was a good thing (th-cam.com/video/8FpigqfcvlM/w-d-xo.html ). how can you say that the tutorial is too long and then immediately after say that it was unobtrusive during your first playthrough? what this section of the video is really saying is, "the tutorial is annoying during subsequent playthroughs", which is basically a law of nature for videogames
And should be skippable. You also seem to fail to understand that this is a critical look at followup playthrough s of the game after letting the "star Wars" lipstick fade off.
@@James_Bee half the shit hes complaining about isnt even a fucking tutoral. When bd gives cal a stim for the first time, the game has a little moment between them and then explains what a stim is. Thats not a tutorial, thats unlocking a new power, and the game explaining it to you. Just because the game spreads out the abilities you unlock, doesnt mean the tutorial ends at the final boss. The tutorial ends at the first second sister fight. After that you UNLOCK new abilities
@@dez1448 that is literally a tutorial about how to heal.
It doesn’t mean it’s good or bad but it is literally a tutorial.
@@domp2729 nope its a tooltip. What happens when bd heals you for the first time is, a cutscene plays, and that cutscene shows you what the stim does, and then a tool tip pops up for a quick second. Either way, he still said that he didnt notice it his first time through, and only complained about unlocking the healing ability so “”””late”””” into the game
Because this guy is a knob
I think the point I disagre the most is the parrying mechanic. You can actually instakill those dothamir dogs with 3 consecutive parries. The same goes for the spiders if I recall correctly. Of course in boss figths you have to "nurf" the parrying mechanic to make the boss fight harder but overall I think the parrying mechanic was as rewarding as it should be and it makes a huge difference when you master it.
Just wanted to pop in with a little lore tidbit, you asked if yoda really had to melt that ice everytime he brought a Padawan in to get a lightsaber, and the answer is actually yes! In clone wars there's a whole episode with him taking a group of Padawans in to get their crystals, and he has to melt that wall of ice using that machine to grant them access. The main difference being that the machine wasn't broken when he was there so it was a whole heck of a lot easier to do haha
For me, personally, this game epitomized the concept of "liking something in spite of itself".
My gameplay experience was riddled with bugs, several platforming moments on the ice slides that were so bad I literally laughed out loud in incredulity, aneurysms from trying to read the map, and a droning buzz in my brain telling me that the collectables were a joyless and rewardless chore. There were so many basic, fundamental parts of being a video game where I felt like it drastically missed the mark.
.....and yet .... And yet.....
It gets a bunch of stuff right, man. It had an intriguing and charismatic villain. The combat gave me adrenaline and made me feel badass. There were visual moments that evoked awe. It tapped into my inner Star Wars child in a way that every Star Wars game SHOULD, but very few actually DO.
At the end of the day, I end up feeling like this is a game I liked, but wanted to love. And, frankly, that's ok. Just as it's ok if someone really loves it or if someone was really disappointed. I can totally see where someone would come to either conclusion.
I'm cheap and have a huge games backlog, so I don't know when/if I'll get around to the sequel. But for now, I'll live in ignorant bliss hoping that the studio identified the good building blocks they have as a foundation.
Watching this after survivor and him talking about how cal never actually took the lives of the bosses then you have survivor where he was the only one to take lives of the bosses except for Vader
Very good video, though I loved many of the things you take issue with.
Some of these, you seem to reject just because they are unusual, like the late first boss fight. I didn't know there were rules on how many boss fights there have to be in a good game. This game was more interesting than the approach of "oh it's the end of the level, let's throw a mandatory big boss in at the end."
I thought it was good that we weren't doing excessive sabre fighting, it would have gotten stale and unrealistic. The mix of mechanics was great to make it feel real to me.
I also loved that they introduced mechanics one by one. It took out the stress of figuring too many things out quickly.
This is genuinely the only Star Wars content that has ever gotten me invested in the world and the characters. I don’t know what it is, but the movies and the shows just do not work for me, but Fallen Order? I love Cal! I love the internal struggle, the looming threat of an empire we know he’ll never beat. It makes every small victory feel so much more impactful. One of my favorite games simply because of it.
i’m kinda developing this theory that the best star wars stories might actually be in the video games … even from way back at the beginning of lucasarts with the tie-fighter and x-wing games, etc. call me a zoomer for this, i don’t mind-i think it’s genuinely true and fits with the theory of what star wars is about at its core.
i love most of the (good) films and some of the shows, but it’s been the games that have, ever since my childhood, really solidified my love for star wars. what has always made star wars so special to me, and why i think it’s still so popular with children, is because it’s an amazing setting for role playing and imagination. it gives you some rules and a beautiful, intriguing, spiritual world with a deep history and diverse cultures and for me as a kid there was nothing better than always feeling like i could tell my own star wars story whenever i wanted after having learnt about its lore-and (video) games give you a really special and unique way of doing exactly that.
the moment in this essay where monty talks about how games can accomplish this in a more visceral way than non-interactive media can really resonated with me for that reason … george lucas always says in interviews he wanted to create a modern myth that taught young people good values and helped them navigate life. while it’s debatable whether star wars really does that (i think adult star wars fans wouldn’t be so notoriously horrible if this were truly the case …) i think he _definitely_ got the jungian-style story thing right by borrowing and stealing from so many different sources and influences. games are a really natural way to explore and playfully discover those lessons and ideas-it’s almost like the star wars universe was really destined to be the setting of a tabletop RPG from its very inception, and then, through that, the setting for video games. i mean, some of the earliest star wars media _were_ games … so, yeah-games are in it’s DNA in my opinion.
Incredible work Monty. Thank you
While your theory about the meditation points 1:34:13 may not be explicitly explained in game, I do think it is explained in universe (as well as being fairly implicitly implied in game). Yoda talks about how "always in motion, is the future" when Luke is having a vision on Dagobah, indicating that visions of the future are not set in stone. Further Cal Psychometry aka Post-Cognition abilities that are used to great effect for world building, would indicate potential talent for Precognitive ability as well. In the books, its indicated that a more limited form of precognition is responsible for Jedi piloting and combat reflexes. The vision of the future Cal has about reforming the Jedi being a mistake further would seem to implicitly indicate his ability to use the Force for guidance in this respect.
Eh, I think there's just too much heart in here to call it a pig. The lipstick IS very good, but whatever it's being put on, it's trying it's best to be approachable too. There may be some scuff on the dress, but it sure isn't schlock.
I actually appreciate that the game did so much with the platforming, exploration, and combat. I felt it reached a good middle ground of combining all factors, covering a frankly baffling number of gameplay elements with a finesse it really didn't even deserve to achieve.
Is it perfect? Heck no. I can think of a couple of platforming sections that confused or stumped me momentarily where I think the game could have been more clear, but I'm willing to call those Me problems. The highs are just too dang high and the lows are way too shallow for me to even come close to ragging on the game that hard.
Great video though.
Gonna watch this during my meals (and/or online classes haha)
Ty for the content
Thanks so much man!
Another great video mate, just came from you Hollow knight video and I have to say I'll be watching many of your videos in the future. Your content is amazing and very well put together. I look forward to both seeing more of your videos and watching your channel and videos get the attention they deserve. So good luck for all your future endeavors and cheers for the entertaining videos.
Damn, cheers my dude. Appareicate it!
Dude, you're hysterical, I'm loving the humour in these videos 😂
Honestly think that what this game does right offers more value to itself than lipstick on a pig. You've got so many good things to say about this game, you've got to admit it's more than just lipstick, surely. The story, lore, characters and general star warsyness of this game is really at the core of what it is so can't say I'm really on board with your analogy there mate.
Now, I don't remember much about the platforming of the game but I remember it being made fairly clear what you could or couldn't climb. Might just be me though. I've never played any of the games this game borrowed from so my brain wasn't yet wired to think one way or the other.
Edit: I am very much enjoying this video but I am noticing that you're portraying a few things that bugged you personally as complaints that everyone shares. I'm thinking of the Gorgara fight now specifically since that's how far I've into the video. You didn't like it, that's cool. I like hearing others opinions on stuff, but dude the multileveled fight against that thing was what made me like it. It made it kinda different and cinematic and anyone I know personally who's played the game is kinda on the same page there too.
It might not be your intention but your phrasing sounds like your making pretty big assumptions about other people's experiences. I know plenty agree with you but, reading some other comments, it doesn't sound like a general consensus.
(am I realizing that this is an awfully long comment for a 6 month old video? Yes I am. Am I still going to be adding edits? Yes I am)
Having said that I've been binge watching your videos and will continue to do so. You are VERY entertaining to listen to.
Edit 2: concerning Ilum (just a fun fact here) in a Clone Wars episode we actually see the temple how it used to be before the purge and the ice did have to be melted each time. But the structures you have to move around in the game were all intact back then, hanging from the ceiling and making it a lot easier to do. The very roundabout way Cal has to do it is because the place is in ruins.
Edit 3:...69th comment 😏 I'm such a child
Bro i absolutely love you critiques i got into your channel watching your bioshock reviews. Just amazing i would really really really love to see a critique on game of thrones i think you would have some valuable insights!
Some real hot takes taken here. I feel like any star wars game is just another game, but it's star wars. And it's not bad. Battlefront is based off of Battlefield. Fallen Order is based on Uncharted/tomb raider. Force unleashed is based on God of War. These aren't bad things at all. I really enjoy it actually. It let people have fun with that genre of game without them playing a M rated game. My mom would never let me play a battlefield game or God of War as a kid, but a star wars game within the same genere she would be ok with that
I mean in Force Unleashed you could air juggle stormtroopers, so its already better then this game.
I appreciate the theme of the lipstick quote used all throughout the video.
Ok I love this game, but I do agree with a lot of your points. Except for the climbing and wall running. I feel like the game pretty clearly shows that you can only wall-run on ridged walls, and climb on vines/grates.
As a Metroid fan, I agree that the level design is all over the place. While I can appreciate that we finally get a 3D exploration game that is truly hand-crafted and not an open-world… it’s definitely weakened by the multiple planets that is also a problem in Metroid Prime 3. Sure, a Star Wars game could work by putting Cal into a self-contained area like trying to escape a certain planet after being trapped in Vader’s fortress. However, it will be difficult to find an excuse to “remove” Cal’s Force abilities if they wanna stick with the Metroid formula of progression.
What frustrated me more is the map system. It might be detailed, but the holographic effect just made it more difficult to see. It’s not Metroid Prime-level of good or even DOOM’s 2016 where they clearly used a 3D map and it worked. I don’t mind BD-1 being used as a “lockpick”, but the chests were more often than not pointless. I would rather find proper enhancements rather than cosmetics. They clearly were inspired by Metroid Prime and they credited the level designers first, right after some of the upper management of the team. They cared about creating these worlds to be explored by the player.
I agree that the lipstick, or the coat of paint, is strong with this one… but like good lipstick, it wears off. Like a coat of paint, you can fail at applying it. The setpieces were by far the worst moments for me since I don’t mind restrained worlds. The setpieces came in conflict with what the game tried to achieve first. That said, the combat system is good for what it is. Malycos sure was a little too much, but so was the final appearance of Trilla despite an impressive build-up. Like Kylo Ren, she’s conflicted… yet she doesn’t have to put back her helmet when she reaches her full strength for the final fight. It’s great to have a villain that is not wasted across three films… except when we see Vader and realise that we’re all lightsaber-fodder against him.
The one set piece I didn’t mind was the Order 66 since Cal did have his Force Powers from his Padawan days. Speaking of which, I’m conflicted as to why we were transported out of the world to “learn” an ability. Sure, it’s the Force… but it feels less about exploration and more the game arbitrarily giving us a key. The one time I felt rewarded for exploring is getting the Double-Blade Lightsaber on Bogano instead of Dathomir. That’s a plus. And yes, I hope we learn more about the Zeffo. I wouldn’t be surprised that they are the “Chozo” of the Force.
Really appreciate your work here, and I was pretty sad it was over .
New to the channel here, but this one you contradict yourself a lot. Like right from the get go and it doesn't stop. "The story's good, the visuals are good, the gameplay is good, the combat is good, but make no mistake, this is a pig in lipstick". Soooo... everything that makes most games good doesn't make this one good? I'm sincerely curious
speaking of plothole at 1:44:00 ... if they can basically brainwash trilla to do their bidding, why not cere?
rather, what am i missing
Game design is at its best when an ability is used for both Exploration AND combat. I love the platforming in Jedi series and had no jankness at all with them using Mouse& Keyboard
Your content is superb, my friend. One of my favorite creators going right now. Hoping to see you get the following and exposure you deserve.
Great vid! Been following your channel for a few months now but leaving my first comment. Very auspicious occasion, I know lol. But, just wanted to say I've enjoyed the hell out of your vids I've seen thus far, you have a unique voice all your own and it makes your content highly bingeable and me highly unproductive. Appreciate the effort you put into these, it's clear these beasts don't make themselves!
Saw Gerrera definitely just kinda pops up, but I always assumed Respawn just had access to the actors and figured they would force him into the plot because when you get the chance to work with Forrest Whitaker you pretty much gotta take it while it's there.
Ok, this is a fantastic video. I love all of it. But the thing I HAVE to know is: dude. How many makeup tutorials did you watch to make this video? And did any of them interest you? Or tempt you into learning more? As a sfx makeup artist (admittedly I’m still pretty much a beginner), I’m incredibly curious.
Maybe… a couple dozen? I fell down a bit of a rabbit hole with them! I think it’s a really cool skill set - and I’ve started watching GLOW because of it!
Coming back to this after Jedi survivor, and very different feel. Way, way more combat. Here you said it's a third, survivor is like half (during story beats. Collectible grind is different). Tutorial was much shorter and far less hand holding. It's like they listened to you
I wonder how that tutorial critique would stand for a game like doom eternal where you don't have your full suite of core abilities until more than halfway through the game. Of course eternal is infinitely more mechanically complex and giving a player everything from the jump would either force an insane difficulty curve or a trivial first act, both of which would turn away new players
There's a difference between character and ability progression and excessive tutorializing. J:FO does both of those things, and Monty only critiqued the multiple split tutorials and slow pacing to start the game. Sprinkling force powers, lightsaber techniques, and traversal abilities throughout the game is exactly what you're talking about with Doom Eternal or any action game, really. Your "core" abilities here include push, pull, double-jump, and double-lightsaber, which is definitely halfway into the game.
I'm still very confused why some people would say the AT-AT phonetically rather than spelling it when referring it. It doesn't sound anywhere as appealing when said that way.
Because technically that's what it's called but yeah most people would just spell it out.
Monty, your examination is very valuable, as when i was playing, i was torn between how the game felt v. the story. And this is a good summary: a clunky pile of parts wrapped up in the prettiest box they could find. It's not a disappointment, it's beautiful despite its flaws. Just the way I always try to experience new media: seeing the good and fully appreciating it before earmarking the flaws
Ths game was a mash up of several different Star Wars projects that EA had already cancelled. When Disney put the screws on EA to get their lazy asses in gear, they took all these old projects and mashed them together in a hurry.
I estimate the dragon on Bogano is just cut content that would have been similar to the bat or the bird from the other planets. I went all over Bogano after I finished the game trying to trigger some sort of cutscene but alas nothing.
How do you have so few views? I’m excited to see your channel explode, because your content is concise and considerate, and your editing is top-notch! I’ve watched through most of them over the last week or so. Keep it up!
Damn thanks my dude! Seriously appreciate it.
wait, you're supposed to use force push to deal with the mecha boss? I swear I just poked its legs when I had the chance
Obi wan ripped off sooo much from this game and did all of it worse
I love star wars Jedi fallen order. I'm downloading survivor right now I got the physical edition on my ps5 today I'm excited to start playing survivor today.
Watching this vod again after checking out the Jedi Survivor trailer. After having nothing but EA Battlefront 2 to eat it feels so good to play fallen order again. God I cant wait.
I really loved this game, my main frustrations with it were the constant sliding and the map. I agree with you that it does use the recognizable parts of SW to dress up its gameplay at times but I think overall it is a really solid game. However I did play it and Survivor several months after release because of the bugs but that is more of a problem with the state of game releases as a whole and not as much with this series in particular. Cal and the crew are some of my favorite new SW characters and I’m excited to see what they do with the third game.
Also, I don’t think the Vader moment is pure fanservice. This is coming from someone who rolled their eyes when Luke Skywalker showed up in the Mandalorian, but Vader’s presence here makes sense narratively and characteristically. It reminds the player of how inconsequential our actions have been in the grand scheme of the empire, and how all our leveling up of Cal’s abilities are nothing against a fully formed Sith Lord. It also makes sense for him to be there because Trilla just brought back the key to destroying any future Jedi, something Vader is deeply invested in. He is often shown doing the dirty work himself in the OG series and in the comics, so him showing up to collect the holocron after the failure of many purge troopers and the Ninth Sister makes sense. I understand players being frustrated that you couldn’t fight him but I appreciate that this game chose story over mechanics in this moment, Cal beating Vader would make no sense, Vader has taken out Jedi three times his age and with decades of training. Despite the fact that he killed me five times on my first playthrough because I got lost on the map once again, this ending was cool as shit and was satisfying narratively in a way few Disney-era SW stories have managed to be.
Just finished this so I've been avoiding your video until now. As a long time SW fan I agree with you entirely. It delivered the SW feels and all the other issues were forgiven by me as a result. If Resapwn can sort out the jank, combat/platforming balance, anaemic customisation and bare bones progression for the sequel we'll have a truly classic SW game. And I think they will because JFO was clearly rushed to market undercooked to capitalise on The Rise of Skywalker, even so JFO is a better SW experience than that cinematic train wreck. Excellent critique Alex.
I think this review could be converted into a very bad critique of the original Alien film.
To me Fallen Order felt fresh as a "playable movie" that actually took time to start up like a lot of older movies, Star Wars included.
It has a nifty enough combat system and some nostalgic platforming, a lot could be better but it's nowhere as bad as this video makes it sound.
Idk how you expect me to pay any attention to this video when you're playing Kotor 1 music in the background!
I miss those games.
‘This pigs opening feels oddly stretched‘ James Cameron must be packing
I don't think a game needs to showcase or explain every single mechanic/system in a game in one thirty minute section at the start. I also love the platforming - even tho it can be buggy - and the level design in the game. Its a great opening imo that lets you soak in the characters and the world, set and setting.
If I'm still learning new things after 30+ minutes then the devs simply fucked up big time. In Dark Souls you learn pretty much all there is to know about the mechanics by the time you reach the first Firelink (not even five minutes), and Cyberpunk 2077 you have all the mechanics explained and you just need to get used to them by around fifteen minutes (if even that, not including cutscenes). I shouldn't be an hour or two in game and suddenly being told "Oh yeah, here's some *VITAL* tutorials we intentionally neglected to teach you sooner" especially not if it changes or alters a gameplay loop I already came accustomed to