The Evolution of Pistol Sights Over the Decades: Gun Guys Ep. 46 with Bill Wilson and Ken Hackathorn
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 ก.ย. 2024
- From the simplest iron notch-and-post open sights, to the most sophisticated red dot optics available on the market today, Bill and Ken discuss how the handgun industry has evolved over the years to meet new challenges and applications by constantly innovating the way we acquire an accurate point of impact. Bill and Ken also talk about the numerous advantages (and a few important disadvantages) of such systems as the Aimpoint ACRO and the Trijicon RMR.
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ABOUT BILL WILSON Bill Wilson has always been infatuated with guns. Originally trained as a watchmaker, he has been in the firearms industry since 1974, starting out with a retail store called Sportsman's Headquarters in Berryville, Arkansas. Since that humble beginning, he has built Wilson Combat into the largest and most successful custom firearms company in America. Since 1977 Wilson Combat has been the leading innovator in high-performance, custom 1911 handguns, tactical long guns and accessories. A Wilson Combat product’s unmatched level of exceptional reliability and peerless craftsmanship is only equaled by our legendary customer service. Wilson Combat is proud to service all levels of local and State law enforcement including The Department of Homeland Security, US Border Patrol, HQ SOCOM, US Marshal's Service, US Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines, Coast Guard, Diplomatic Security Service, Texas Rangers and many more elite law enforcement and military units worldwide. We are also pleased to support the needs of thousands of law-abiding private citizens in the United States and in many other countries abroad.
ABOUT KEN HACKATHORN Ken Hackathorn has served as a US Army Special Forces Small Arms Instructor, Gunsite Instructor, and NRA Police Firearms Instructor. He is currently an FBI Certified Firearms Instructor, and an SRT member and Special Response Team trainer. Ken has trained US Military Special Operations forces, Marine FAST and SOTG units and is a contract small arms trainer to FBI SWAT and HRT. Ken has provided training to Federal, State, and local law enforcement agencies and been active in small arms training for the past 25 years. He has written firearms related material for Guns & Ammo, Combat Handguns, Soldier Of Fortune, and currently American Handgunner and contributed to at least six other gun/shooting journals. Ken was also a founding member of IPSC and IDPA.
#GunGuys #KenHackathorn #BillWilson
I use Trijicon HDs on my GLOCKs, which are nearly identical to those AmeriGlo. Very good sights. Love them.
On my 1911, however, I found a real hybrid between night sights and fiber optics. The TruGlo TFX Pro uses fiber rods AND tritium, so you get incredible brightness in proper lighting conditions, as well as a tritium glow in low-light. The fiber always has a light source. And the Pro model goes one step further, and includes a bright, eye-catching ring around the fight sight, like the Trijicon HDs.
They take the three best ideas on the market (Colored front sight, Tritium, and Fiber Optic) and combine them into one outstanding system.
Have this on my CZ P01 Omega.......Awesome !
But my gunsmith had a challenge removing the original sights.
Took a while !
@@mikebyerly2344 I nearly died trying to get the stock front sight removed from my Kimber Custom II 1911. Even using a pusher tool, it was nearly impossible. What did the trick was using a hot air gun to get her good and toasty, then use the pusher tool as quickly as possible. Even then, I hurt myself getting it to budge.
And before anyone asks, yes, I double, triple, and quadruple checked I was pushing them in the right direction. :)
I have so much respect for guys like Bill Wilson and Ken Hackathorn. I held off jumping on the red dot train for a while, because I was afraid it would slow me down and be more difficult to shoot well. I am nowhere near as good as shooter as these gentlemen are, but I felt like I got used to the red dot after about 1000 dry fire draws and trigger pulls and then I went to the range and put about 250 rounds through the gun. My 5x5 drill (which I got from these guys years ago) has not gotten any slower and my groups are quite a bit tighter. I really don’t find any disadvantage at closer distances. When I was young I went through a police academy that taught almost exclusively point shooting. As I become a better shooter I have moved beyond that, but I have always felt that it was affective 10 yards and in, Now instead of just looking over the gun I am looking through the red dot sight and getting a flash site picture. I have a ton of respect for these two gentlemen, and I think they are such excellent shooters the red dot does not help that much, but for me it has really been eye-opening and improved my skills.
I agree 100%. My close in eyesight is terrible. I could no longer see the front sight. I carry one of Mr. Wilsons competitors 1911's. A Les Baer Thunder Ranch Special. Living in the sticks in Central Texas, Bad Guy's are not my only worry. Rattle Snakes are plentiful, as are Copper heads, and very aggressive Yotal Dog's. Simply pint shooting doesn't get it.
I first tried using a EGW adapter for the Novak rear sight cut to mount the Red Dot, but as talked about in this vid. and it too required lowering the gun to see the dot. It was simply too high above the bore line. I milled the slide to the same depth of the Novak sight cut and installed the red dot, and it comes up instantly.
A rattle snakes head is a small target. Too small for point shooting to be done fast enough and accurately enough to save yourself or your fine Dog.
I noticed one common theme in the Vid. Mr. Ken pointed out while talking about red dots that it didn't cure any of the other issues such as proper trigger control among other things. It was noticed that the same issues are present with any type of sighting system. but it was only pointed out in relation to red dots. He may not realize it, but this shows a subconscious bias against the red dot sight system here. As it is no more an issue with the R.D. systems than any other system. I recognize such bias's as it is a part of getting older and having a subconscious shying away from change. I have it as well.
KnifeMaker
I also concur.
Good post.
*sight
#metoo
This channel was a genius move by Wilson Combat. I went from picturing them as a bunch of suits selling overpriced 1911's to seeing that these guys are just very passionate about firearms and producing quality products.
Houston (Texas) Police Academy is requiring all new recruits use a RDS. Qualification scores have jumped and I understand the job of the instructors has gotten a lot easier.
@No Body I'm so glad he clarified that. I thought he meant Houston, Alabama...
@Mike Owen Do you know offhand what handgun the recruits are issued with the RDS? Is it some kind of Glock?
@@dexm2010 Most HPD guys run Glocks or M&P with factory mounting systems - 19 or 17
@@alexbreeco Thank you!
The Army discovered the same when they started training recruits on rifle red dots in the early 2000s.
As I got older, I've found what worked best for was a narrow front sight with a red fiber optic rod and an all black rear sight with a wide notch. That is what I shot in USPSA and IDPA for a long time. I found that on a bright sunny day that a green fiber optic front sight was actually too bright, it bloomed in my vision such that I couldn't place it accurately in the rear notch -- perhaps that is just my astigmatism.
Once I neared 60-years-old, I found it best to use a red dot. Fortunately many of today's pistols can mount a red dot, and slide-mounted red dots have become cheaper and more reliable.
Gold beads have never worked for me. In bright sunlight, the gold bead just blooms too much in my vision that I can't accurately place them in the rear sight notch.
Sights are certainly a personal thing. What works for me may not be your preference.
Love my Ameriglo Hackathorn sights on my 43x! The blacked out serrated rear sight with the bright orange front sight that's easy to pick up in sunlight and green tritium insert for night time work! Absolutely LOVE the design!
I like the white ones work for me on my micro 9 and my para companion leaves 45.
My favorite iron sight setup by far, i used to favor three dots now i run the black serrated rear and orange hd tritium front hackathons on everything i can except my 509 because that has a dot. Its amazing how fast you can pick up those hackathorns from the draw. Im honored to have learned from these guys
Another great perspective & history lesson, thank you both
Glad you enjoyed it
Due to arthritis I have to conceal carry appendix or shoulder holster.
Love the intro music, thank you for not trying to come off as some prime time, major network tv show spending more time telling what you're gonna show me than you do showing me, just down to earth to the point information.
I'm a simple guy .. I see Wilson combat I hit like 😎
Thanks for watching!
Quote of the video, "When all of your shooting is done on the internet, you don't pick up on that..." LOL. It took me about 18 months to get really used to the RDS. While I certainly agree that almost all self defense confrontations are inside of 5 yards. I still want an enclosed RDS. My eyesight isn't as good as it once was. If I have to make one shot, just one shot, think someone has a loved one. I'll take the RDS every time. With a RDS I am much faster and more accurate than iron sights.
Great episode. It is always a great history lesson and you get insight by two of the guys who shaped how we shoot today. Awesome.
Fun watching the old rock stars of shooting keeping up even leading the way still!
I really appreciate the knowledge that you guys share on here.
I like what they have to say and I listen.
I like blacked out rear and something bright in the front, either red fiber optic or for self-defense I like the big orange with tritium center in the front.
Me too!
" When all your shooting is done on the Internet." LOL. I will remember that!
@17:35 "If 90% of your shooting is under 10 yards what benefit?"....
I don't know, maybe you can focus on the threat rather than the bump on the front of the gun. It was also a bit amusing hearing the cost concern of RDS while displaying it on a custom 1911.
Love my XS night sight! Almost bright enough to use as a flashlight!
I shoot USPSA, steel challenge, action pistol, etc., and out of 90 guns or so, only 3 or 4 of us still shoot limited (no optics). Can't compete against optic guys, so we have our own whose best competition. But you are correct, optics is the future. Good vid as always, thanks.
Red dots with backup irons are 🔥
Ken has a batman, well done sir!
Love your guys channel. Very informative and yall give great perspective.
Thanks!
Im still using the good old gi iron sights on my 1911
I'm hearing a lot hating towards red dots coming from these two. I understand they are older and have a ton of knowledge when it comes to firearms but having a good quality red dot on your pistol is one less thing you have to worry about once you put in the dry firing reps and practice behind it. Every instructor that teaches red dot classes will tell you that once you become proficient with your gun & red dot, once you go back to irons it's so much easier. You dont need 1,000 rds, you need 2,000 reps of dry firing to acquire the red dot and get use to it.
Old timers who are afraid of new technology.
@@donovanchilton5817 but yet they run the red dots on their AR15 and other carbines.
Military has been doing that for over two decades, though. The RDS on pistols trend is recent.
Excellent presentation
Florescent orange tester model paint cheap and works
Nope. Bright green nail polish. Lol!
As a retired 20th Century Marine, I used the first two examples. I carried your basic Gov't model on duty and used the Gold Cup during matches. I shot one match with the Beretta before I retired, but I have never shot any of the other types of sights. I'm just getting back into shooting after retiring. I'm going to stick to my Bo-mar type sights on my current 1911 until I get my mojo back, then I'll try out some of these Star Trek, laser beam sights. Thanks for the great videos Gun Guys.
Very interesting talk. Thanks guys!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Nothing better than “Iron Sites”. An EMP will toast an optic in the blink of an eye. I AM old school. I don’t use an optic when I compete in Darts 🎯
Nothing better than a optic, with irons for backup.
I agree, I only use irons, no optics, no red dots, dont need them.
So true. A fun toy but leave your carry gun alone
@@ar-15techtipsinunder5minut8why have irons at all then? if better aiming systems aren’t worth it either?😆
Y’all sound like those who wanted to stick with horse and buggy and not a car. My horse never breaks down, doesn’t need a oil change, & does the exact same job!
@@tk423b with a RDS and irons right lol.
Very informative gentlemen thank you for your expertise
That was very instructive. Thank you.
Glad it was helpful!
Formula 1 Bill! Now, that is Racing! Nothing compares to F1. Once you have seen and understand that, there is no other Racing!
Thank U guys so much,,,,there's way too many 20 something year old gun experts,,,Ur knowledge is priceless..
Always fascinating lads 😘👍🏼
Great info Thanks!
I am still not into optics, but I won't fault anyone for whatever works for them. Everybody's needs are different, and their abilities are different. I personally have settled them on two dot sights, like the Idot pros. And recently, I picked up a set of Wilson combat Battlesights, which give me that U shaped rear. I am cross dominant, and for me, that sight has turned my head upside down. With a red front sight coupled with a tritium insert, I can find that thing super fast and snug it down in there right where it needs to be without even hardly looking at it. That is of course just my personal relationship with it, other people may not like it as much. But I will be gravitating to more of those as I can afford them on my other carry pistols, even over my beloved Idots which are not that different, but have a square notch instead of the U-shaped notch. Unbelievable achievements, WC.
I carry a Dan Wesson 1911 with a green tritium front sight center bead, to which I added fluorescent green nail polish to surround the bead for daylight pickup. The rear is a blacked out notch with a yellow tritium dot beneath the notch. This works very well. I have always shot handguns with a target focus, while my eyes and brain pick up the sight alignment, so that I'm superimposing my front sight, (centered in the rear sight) upon my target like a red dot placement. While I'll continue to carry this gun, I want to move on to a red dot equipped gun for the experience and perhaps competition.
XS Big Dot sights on my 1911 for my older, tired eyes. Self-defense use out to about 30 yards. Anything further out and I'm grabbing the rifle with RDS.
Very good information--Thanks
On my daily self defense carry pistol, night sights. On my plate rack, dueling tree, KYL targets, RMR. The RMR collects debris and becomes useless on a carry self defense gun as Ken pointed out. These guys know their stuff. Good review of the evolution of handgun sights.
Thanks for watching! We release new videos every week so be sure to subscribe!
I carry LCP appendix/crotch. I always practice point shooting 7 yards in, just raising the pistol to chest level, because I am pretty sure if I ever have to use it, that is the way I will be shooting. Can consistently hit high center chest.
Let me use this opportunity to invite you to train more point shooting with your carry gun, with different angles and levels of presentation. You should really look at a 8 inch round spot and be able to hit it several times by just pointing. When you look at the target and point your gun at chest level, flinch disappears. At least it was for me. A little bonus for you to try it out ;-)
Big Dot express sights. (But only if you are primarily interested in gunfighting. For bullseyes, tin cans, steel plates, paper/cardboard silhouettes, etc. you'll probably be happier with target/competition type sights. )
I had a Big Dot express sight installed on a 1911. I absolutely hated them. I couldn't shoot worth a darn with those sights -- I strung my shots vertically. I paid the gunsmith to takes those off and replace them with standard post and notch sights, with a narrow front sight and wide rear notch. Definitely a YMMV kind of thing.
The ACRO is a great optic I agree. I’ve been running the ACRO P-2 on my G17 since July and love it! I’m thinking about putting fibre on everything else.
XS Big Dot sights are the way to go for defensive pistol. Put the golf ball on the tee. Now further out I understand the limitations of the big dot. But at that distance you need to bring a long gun in the game.
Great stuff!!!
Don't take your low riding Hot Rod Show Car, to muddy Dear Camp. Pick what you need, for where you're going.
Old video I know,
You guys should do a History of the Beavertail/Grip safety, and the History of the Thumb Safety.
Great discussion guys very informative.You just really helped me out.I was considering red dot on my defense gun and my
hunting handguns.Thanks for making other options more clear.
Like to try the Hack sight on defense pistol.Just getting ready to scope my 5" 29 classic because I can't get a red dot to. work on mount system.I also have
fiber front and express on hunting
gun.seems to work well.
Thanks guys.
Recently acquired a Sig Romeo 0 for $150 with 6 Moa dot and put it on an old Kimber 2 see if I like it. I have macular degeneration and it has been a game-changer for me.
The best sites on a gun is the ones that they have on it Wilson combat makes fantastic guns I know they are expensive but I have two a 1911 9 mm and 260 AR fantastic firearms.👍
I have Ameriglos or Trijicon HD's on everything I carry or have for defense. I still have no need for a red dot on a pistol
I have exactly 1 pistol with a RDS on it.
Takes practice to get used to it.
Must be left turned on when carried, to be useful for defense.
Gives an opponent a very effective place to grab the gun from the defenders grasp at close quarters.
For me, the RDS on a pistol is a range toy only.
The advantage of the optic for duty and defense is that you can stay focused on the threat and what it’s doing and not the front sight. The future is now old man.
I can only dream of acquiring a fraction of the knowledge these men (including Mr. Ayoob) share. In fact I would venture to say they have forgotten more than most of us will ever know. Keep up the great videos and thank you for sharing your knowledge and wisdom.
XS big dot sights are the best for quick sight alignment under stressful conditions.
Ken has an awesome watch too Rolex GMT Master II
I have my first alternative iron sight on the way for my EDC owing to my 50 year-old eyes: a TruGlo Bright-Site TFX Pro set. I just went through all of the considerations these gents enumerated because I just can't see my front post the way I used to. Time will tell.
I love that beretta 92 with the night sights. Please make more!
RDS's on handguns are the future.
They were the future 10 years ago.
Astigmatism has entered the chat. Make it a prism and I'll change over
Trijicon night sights for me… all I need IMHO.
Gentlemen you are both fantastic always a wealth of information, I equipped my Hackathorn Special with the gold dot front and U-Notch Rear and it is superb.
I've heard of the gold dots before, but I've never seen them on a gun in person. Are they easier to see than a white dot on a normal, bright sunny day?
@@dexm2010 I have to say they aren't bad it took me a box of ammo to get used to them, I've been shooting 3 dot white sights for years I just had Wilson Combat replace the rear with a U-Notch night sight and I like it, if you know someone with a gold bead front I encourage you to try them, please let me know how it works out.
@@jimtewa8096 Thank you for sharing your experience sir. I'll have to try one one of these days.
@@dexm2010 if you mean a Wilson Combat you won't be disappointed,
Well said and articulated Guys... ';-) Thanks, Mike~
You guy’s messed me up BILLS ON LEFT , Heckathorn is on right 😝 👍🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸without his glass of pop
Some of the hand guns I have seen in the Open Division at USPSA matches are $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ with red dot sights, compensators, etc...I shoot both Limited Ten, MPF and PCCO.
Ken …. Fantastic Rolex GMT
I shoot within defense ranges 10 out to 20 using my front sight only as it's much quicker on draw and aim, as always one should practice , I'm not ready to go full swing with an pistol optic.
Being y'all's age, i have gone through all the stages of sight development you describe. I have been slow to accept change, however. After grudgingly going to fiber optic and then tritium, I am just now experimenting with red dots. Like Bill, I'm still not sure RDS is enough of a benefit to go through learning to use them at this point in my shooting.
Excellent video. Learned much from these gentlemen. Keep it up.
Glad you enjoyed it
Couple things.
Defensive guns should have flashlights on them. Any good light is going to backlight any set of black/serrated iron sights.
To speak to tritium, yes you should know where your muzzle is pointed. Outside of someone already shooting at you, you should know what you’re shooting at. So a flashlight should be used , backlighting your tritium.
Furthermore, a fiber optic under the light of a flashlight is going to really really glow, giving you a superb sight picture, and positive threat ID.
To speak on open emitters, you can tell these guys never actually appendix carried a gun with a dot. Belly lint rarely if ever gets in the way of the emitter and if it does muck up your sight picture it’s because there is lint on the glass itself and not the emitter. Even the closed emitter Acro P-2, suffers from the lint on the glass. Just use your shirt to wipe it off before you leave the house. You already have to change the battery every month what’s q-tip across the glass gonna change?
Every month? I change my aimpoints on my birthday every year, they have a 5 year battery life. Several people tell me every year is overkill let alone doing it monthly.
Tritium inside a white donut is an all lighting condition site. Sit on the back porch with pistol in hand as the sun is going down and you will see. As the white donut begins to fade from view, the tritium begins to shine. Unbeatable.
Good video!!! I'm sorry, I think red dot sights are a fad and I hate them. Don't see the benefit. Keep it simple! Just always practice. I love my plain U notch rear with my Gold dot front sight! Works great. Everyone I see at the range most of the time are all about the red dots and shoot fast and miss a lot. You guys keep up the great work. You both are very much appreciated. You both are my favorite shooters to learn from, along with Larry Vickers. Thank you!
Given a new or novice shooter - it's faster to put a dot on target than it is to center front sight in rear sight and align with bullseye !
Great knowledge and information.
Thanks for sharing.
I have Hackathorn sights on four of my Glocks
Ultradots on bullseye guns in the 90s is where I stated with red dots. Still like the irons for duty and practical use.
A lot of gun innovation we use originated from the competitive shooting community.
Ken said Bitch Slap LOL
Last week I received a Heritage Rough Rider 22 revolver with adjustable sights. I was astonished to find the rear sights have two bright red fiber inserts and the front sight has a bright green fiber insert. Even with my aging eyes I found these sights really popped.
The future is now and staying focused on the threat is a major advantage of the RDS on a hand gun
You guys are my two favorite grumpy old farts. Seriously though, I take your advice to heart. There are way to many kids with beards and tattoos that give terrible advice
I was watching this video to learn some history then Ken Hackathorn made a comment "bitch slap". This has no place in a Wilson Combat video and should be edited out. In the TH-cam video even Bill Wilson flinched when Ken said this.
Batman gmt master ii was a good choice Ken!
Man you guys missed the opportunity of showing original sights. You started with the 1960’s? We all know everything from then on. I came for the early stuff. The beginning.
Will we see optics cuts for EDC X9 anytime soon?
I doubt it, Bill Wilson doesn't care for them, obviously.
I have transition lenses in my glasses. With iron sights I have to tilt my head way back to see the sights and then I can't see the target. The red dot, Trijicon rmr, fixed all those issues. 2 years and never a problem with the emitter. OWB carry with shirt covering it.
Holoson 509T
I like my handguns simple, rugged, and low profile. I understand the merits of an RDS, MOS, RMR, optic... whatever you want to call it. But, damn it, I can't put them on a carry weapon.
If you're a going to shoot long distances, like 25 yds or more, yeah, RDO is the way to go. In a real-life situation at close range, the RDO is unnecessary. You'll do well with iron sights.
People that use red dot optics on their pistol are just doing it for a fashion statement, as he said “all the cool kids have red dots”
Fiber optic sights.. “ray charles could see it” hahaha
Nights sights with radioactive luminous radium were used in military rifles dating back to 1916. The French Lebel, German g98, and the British SMLE all used clip-on nights sights before world war 1.
I think Single focal plain is so important that it trumps any of the down sides . I still have back up irons on my Glock 19 mos but to be able to focus on the treat instead of making ty treat into a blurry blob is worth all the cons . I also bet most average shooters would just end up point shooting inside of 10 yards in a high stress situation
Interesting. I own a model 329PD with a Mepro big dot tritium front sight and a V notch adjustable rear sight. Mag-na-port quad ported the barrel and EDM aka Electrical Discharge Machined a shallow vertical line below the V of the rear sight. They put white in the shallow vertical line. Dot the I.
“I don’t think Carry Optics will be a very big division in IDPA”. Sorry Ken, you couldn’t possibly be more wrong this time. It was THE BIGGEST division at the 2021 IDPA Nationals.
IDPA is MORE accuracy intensive because of the number of partials and the time plus scoring, making red dots MORE benefitial.
Ken "bitch-slap" Hackathorn. Hilarious.
I keep hearing about how RDO's are outstanding for handguns however 25 years as an LEO being taught to use my irons has me more comfortable with them. It may sound strange but my personal and dept issue AR's have red dots however I just can't get used to them being on my pistol.
I have been wearing glassed since I was 5. I have severe astigmatism and presbyopia. If I point iron sights while wearing my regular glasses I see no sights, only black blurriness. I'm surprised there was no discussion of lasers. They work great at short range and you do not have to acquire any sights.
Training with whatever you choose is the bottom line.
I’m going through the transition to a red dot from a bizilloin rounds on irons right now and it’s tough to say the least.
Only thing that is missing are all the optics that were used in the 80s & 90s in ipsc since you mentioned how they all came to be through competition while you mentioned Jerry Barnhart. Some had optics that were specialized for the horizontally moving targets to have an advantage to not think about the lead cause they knew the moving speed. You can find videos of some of those matches and how insanely hard they were compared to now. Challenges with a capital C. Maybe another video just about handgun optics through the years with examples?
My Bi-focals kinda fogged up when you made me feel al little old. :)
Great historical content. From my personal perspective, no matter how well a pistol is made, if it has iron sights, it will pail in comparison to a pistol with a red dot optic in terms of accuracy and precision. The reason is simple since most pistols will outshoot the person's ability. The red dot focuses on the weak part of the equation which is the human.
Yes, but a lot of people still struggle with the trigger press more than probably anything else. The dot doesn't address this.
@@dexm2010 The red dot doesn’t address trigger discipline, it also doesn’t address grip, nor stance, nor experience. Take the same person and have them shot two pistols, one with iron and one with optics. The pistol with the optics will outshot the irons.
@@Quality_Guru If someone has an astigmatism, a dot is probably not going to help them shoot more "accurately", but that depends on what kind of accuracy he's looking for. If all someone is doing is something like trying to place shots at speed in a 6" to 8" circle at 7-10 yards, an experienced person with a dot can do that, but so can somebody with irons.
@@dexm2010 Totally agree with you on the static targets.