The Real Reason We Retopologize Our 3D Models
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 ต.ค. 2024
- In this video tutorial, we talk about the reason why you want to retopologize your 3D models. Do you have to retopo for still images? Will Zremesher work for high-end production?
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We retopologize because we like to suffer
see now if torture was legal, you'd retoplogize to avoid suffering a rigger's sadism.
And i always thought, that was uv-layout and weight pain-ting
Things I experienced when I tried to make my first animated model with bad topology (zremeshed, i think):
UV unwraping - Arrghh, is it a spiral?!
Rigging - Arrghh, what are these weird pointy things in its shoulder?!
Blend shapes - Arrghh, what's going on with the eyes?!
Overall process - ARRGHH!!!
Sums it up pretty well! :D
as a rigger I too, hate spirals
Crap man... I had the same experience.
but with a sculptris sculpt
with way too many polygons
and I didn't know how to mirror
IT WAS PAINFUL
@@FlippedNormals how do you fix an STL with triangles to quads only on one part of the model in ZBRUSH (the arm or the shield)
*Tech artist/rigger cheering from the background*
Hah! Happy to help :D
I love these two and the conversational style, makes it actually a fun to watch video :)
In games specifically, sometimes you'd even create multiple stages of retopology so the LOD (level of detail) systems can load in the more performant model first and then load in the high res expensive model when the player is close enough that the detail matters.
My College Lecturers don't know what retopology is : (
I feel so Lucky that people like you are around.
Oh boy... that's not great! We're really glad we can help you out! :)
Yea, I remember suggesting to my prof to use retopology on our sculpt but he wouldn't have it because the curriculum was to build a base mesh by hand first so if we needed to change topology it would require re-projecting and a lot of back and forth with Maya-Zbrush. oh well, things have changed!
Is your prof for 3d entertainment art or a different topic? If he is teaching digital 3d and didn't know this that is quite sad
Im in the second year in a 3d Animation course in Scotland, most of the stuff that we learn are from pdf documents and from our own research, the whole curriculum feals dragged out because we are just getting into properly unwrapping objects and learning how to use photoshop. I guess the most advanced thing which we have done recently is particle effects in 3ds max.
Dang. Doesn't sound like it is totally worth it imo. Hope everything goes well though. Just do a lot of personal practice and tutorial searching lol
I am learning so much about the process of making a character. Thank you, you two.
10:15 every animator in the world
All good reasons. Although one thing with ZRemesher that's useful is using it with clothing that has a lot of folds. Use the ZRemesher guides and plant them on the apex of the folds, edgeloop around the collar, cuffs, bottom(s) of the garment, and edgeloop around the elbows/knees/chest. It won't be perfect, but you'll save yourself a lot of time getting the bulk of it done in zremesher and back into Maya to "fix" some problem areas.
Great video on a very important topic, but one thing you could point out is that, unlike the one-joint zbrush "rig" that you apply to the arms here, a vfx rig for a creature like this will have dozens and dozens of joints, in a hierarchy, and each joint has to calculate its effect up through the hierarchy, on every vertex in the model, and THAT is what really taxes your CPU/GPU and impacts your feedback time. Not so much Zbrush vs Maya, but simple, disposable posing rig vs complex, robust animation rig.
This channel is so underrated.
Thank you for the "show-highlighting" tip. That was super useful! Keep up the great work!
need to spend more time on retopology - it's so important and will make my work faster!
This may sound like a weird question but I see modelers preach about clean modeling and moving around geometry so vertices are not stretched etc.... But why be so precise in the modeling part when you repologise over it and use the retopoligised geometry and discard the original model anyways?? I can see if you may be using it for film and other reasons where high poly meshes are preferred but why be so careful when it's only used as a guide to create your lower poly geometry??
You use the high quality meshes to make normal maps, and the better you have the details, the better it looks once it is applied to the low res model. Artifacts will still show up.
Helpful video! I didn't understand before why people retopologize in Maya, 3d Coat or Topogun, instead of using the Zremesher button. Everything is clear now.
Thanks a lot guys!
The first time I practiced/tried retopo it was for a Tree I sculpted , I think the end result was something with higher poly count than the source mesh , I'm not sure about that tho , what I'm sure about is it was definitely more messy than the dynotopo mesh I sculpted , every time I get depressed I open that file and take a look
you guys are really good at sculpting
so what you meant is if my main purpose of sculpting is for 3D printing, i shouldnt bother with retopo at all ?
Thank you for such great content. Can you do a comparison about the same model in game and movie? I'm curious about the difference in detail. If you have time, thanks:D
That's a great question! The main difference would the density of the model, and the UV layout. For film, you'd split this guy up over maybe 40-100 UDIMs, and you wouldnt optimize it for performance, but rather for closeups. The topology would be rather similar.
Huge thanks for explanation.🍻
Thanks guys, you're videos are always encouraging. Looking forward to the topo tuts!
Thanks! We released topo tut yesterday.
Man I very excited for this course because if there is one thing I hate to do is Retopologize, so I hope course can learn how to do it faster and better
guys could you please make a tutorial on how to use texturexzy skin height map and project it perfectly on to a model as a first pass detail? im loving the tutorial and helpful tips, thanks!
Thanks for the video guys! I would love to see the in depth series on character production. right now I'm retopologizing my first character and I'm only using tris in non deforming areas. I'm worried if I subd it will cause issues due to tris. Basically I'm confused about different mesh resolutions during the process. You guys are saints!!
That creature thing is such a nice model
My favorite TH-cam channel. I appreciate everything you guys do. Thank you!!
0:51 I can't imagine studiyng something cool like 3d modeling at school.
It makes me to believe that everything I've studied at school does not actually suck and is not boring.
I understand the need for Retopo, but why projections? Is it to get cleaner bakes? The guide mesh you re-project to is still very dense, so why do it?
Reprojection is to get all the details from the sculpt to the retopologized version. Retoping doesn't just make the poly count lower it changes the topology so the model deforms properly. You reproject onto a denser version of the model so that normal and displacement can be made from it to add the details to the lower ploy version when you render.
What CutestRuler said ^!
Thanks for the explanation :)
Great video! I have a question ... do you think Cinema 4D is any good for this type of work? like retopology tools, modeling, uv tools etc
we dont have a lot of experience with C4D, so honestly we cant tell. It doesnt seem like many people use it for this kind of work though.
How does the recent announcement of *Nanite* in Unreal Engine 5 affect things in the near term with regard to high-poly ZBrush models?
Do you think in the future it will get automatic? That would be so nice!
It already has started
So basically...despite the methods available in zbrush, retopologizing by hand and then projecting high res meshes onto low res meshes can help keep functionality and detail on a mesh? So essentially, Zbrush is not the program you should be using for retopology in the slightest?
Great tutorial guys :D
Well zremesher has the option for you to draw where you will want more topology and where you need less and I have been using this option its like paiting weights when rigging and it does a really good job atleast in my team.
It's pretty OK, but if you want full control, manual retopo is usually the way to go.
Yes I agree. We used topo gun previously but due to time conservation went full on with z remesher :D
Good stuff! Thanks for the video!
i hope you make a video on the wrapping technique you mentioned. is it like shrinkwrap where you have the lowpoly conform to the high poly like ZBrush's projection or is it those puppet cages I see in behind-the-scenes footage where moving a few vertexes on like a 100 point mesh moves whole muscle groups on a 100,00 point mesh? also does it involve the UV like you mentioned in other videos?
and on somewhat of a tangent were there ever times you needed to transfer or reproject whole texture/material sets from one UV set to another? like you have all the textures from diffuse to ambient occlusion to displacement to specular ect made perfect but you have a new UV optimized and the baked texture maps don't align anymore so you project that data to conform to the UV set. i know Maya has transfer maps and the diffuse does what I talk about but the displacement map requires the high poly present and i can't just project 2d data to a new layout. i am told marmoset Toolbag can rebake existing maps like that but i havent tried it and i am guessing Mari has such a feature but my little computer cant run it.
I'm also unsure of this.
There's a program called WrapX that allows you to take a low poly mesh and match it to another mesh shape.
Matthitizidu oh i know all about Wrap :D speeds up the process by reusing the base mesh for you. but i want textures not shapes and so far i cant bake old textures to new shapes.
Meir Teichman If you divide the new topology and project the details from the high poly in Zbrush you'll have all your detail on the new topology. Then you can bake any maps you need.
Matthitizidu tried that and since zbrush doesnt use Udims well i get all sorts of artifacts and applying the displace to each UV causes bad seams.
Which software are you using model looks amazing
Maya and zBrush
I am starting on my journey and have a idea i would like to be able to complete within the next year or so with animation.
So i am safe staying in the modeling stage and sculpting all my assets first ? then tackle the retopology and texture / uv wrapping later? I am trying to understand the process as much as possible to save head aches later.
What about the zmesh guide tool? I understand that youd probably need the knowledge of manual retopology to properly apply it without generating new mistakes, but it seems to work fine
What if I sculpted something like that, but I didn't give more details, so there's no need to repologize it?
10:16 Challenge: animate a short character video (15-30sec) without rigging. >:3
Still a bit confused. How does wrapping a high res mesh work? How would it copy the blendshapes?
So if I have a solid object like a sword, is it best to just Zremesh it? Even if it's for an animation? But as it's a sword it won't really be deforming so it won't matter?
I don't think you need to remesh a static object that won't be animated its a waste of time unless the geometry is way too much and affects performance.
Great video and explanations, thanks
Thanks!
What exactly are you referring to in regards to topology, performance and static meshes?
Is a very highly detailed model, which's vertices will never move (in a game) in need of retopology, if RAM/VRAM isn't a concern?
Thanks for the tip in the end btw the lag when select high poly is it cause by highlight feature
no
If you start with a base mesh that you then sculpture on can you use that original base mesh rather than retopologize or does retopology ensure you cover more detail?
So would I use the low poly for animations and then apply them on a common rig for production? I would love to hear you guys discussing what you know about animation too
Yes! If you have normal maps for it that you know works before you animate. Besides if you have the same model in different resolutions you can use the skeleton for any of them. This is commonly used in games, when you want less polygons on models far away.
Should a low poly style character for games be retopologized?
Yes, you definitely have to retopo the low poly
@@FlippedNormals Thanks!
Nice tutorial but sometimes you could get away by using Zremesher and do little fix like just doing the joints area or torso where the body deform also if u really good on zbrush u could also fix it in there and use my favorite tool zmesherGuid that really works good like u mention around the eyes , u can easily just add couple of guides and get the loops I want, but overall best thing is just doing it by hand like u had mention on the video.. big thumbs up great tutorial
but theres also another technique to do so the differrence is that you wont be losing any details of your mesh it can be done through zbrush and 3dcoat as well iam currently working on that...
When you do retopologize, what is your workflow? I've so-called retoplogized a sword for my fallout 4 mod with houdini then exported to 3DS max. And it looks absolutely bad. Do weapons get retopo-ed? I don't even know why I thought I needed to retopo a weapon. Oh, can you do a tutorial about making flawless UV seams in 3DS max? I do love Zbrush's UV Master, but I wanna (oh, I don't know... maybe be painful to myself) learn how to manually make UV Seams flawlessly.
Retopology is needed for all game assets (unless they're already low poly) to help cut down the number of polygons and make a game-ready asset :) And learning how to create UVs manually is a great skill! Not as hard as it seems, just takes practice!
What would you guys suggest would be fastest way to retopologize the mesh for production then? Are you suggesting using a normal DCC like Maya for that? I'd probably be using Modo or C4D if so. Or does Zbrush have other tools than Zremesher the are good for retopo?
ah, now I understand why every time my frame loads onto a map it first looks like a low poly version of Excalibur on Warframe.
When Is The Proper Creature Texturing Tutorial Coming Up?
We're working on it right now!
@@FlippedNormals
Thats Good
Waiting To Texture A Dragon I Am Making For Portfolio.
On the retopology front, which tools you recommend?
I have a surprisingly not-infuriating experience using retopoflow in blender, but i was taught there, so my bias is bigger than my knowledge.
Also, outside of the "main loops" (eyes, mouth, the ungodly mess that's hand, fingers and nails, etc), do you recommend any process to "fill" the space between then?
Maya has a tool called quad draw, which is very good.
This is a bit unrelated but is there a ring select option in Maya like in Zbrush radial option? Specifically for polygon faces?
How can you go through that trench of doing retopo without even questioning it ? There really be people out here stabbing themselves without knowing why ?
Another awesome video! Thanks. ❤🎮
Why not just model the low-poly character in Maya, then import it and add the details in ZBrush afterwards? You could then just export the displacement/bump maps from ZBrush and apply them to the low-poly you already have in Maya.
hey i just purchased zbrush core 2021, and i need a way to retopo the hipoly mesh. you talked about projecting yhe mesh, is it possible in zbrush core ?
Do Teeth Need Need Good Topology Or ZRemeshed Teeth Can Be Used?
Good topology is advised in most cases.
I wonder one thing how do we have that high res' quality with low res one ? Because some games have that kind of models and they works fluid. With high res textures that can manulpate our eye ? or there are some codes behind it to manuplate the performance to run faster.
....probably a silly one but I really do need an enlightenment due to my lack of production knowledge :) - if I created a satisfying crazy-highpoly model in ZBrush, decimated and retopo-ed it, bake all the high details on my low poly model - is there really a need for reprojecting everything...? Where are these highpoly&clean-meshed models even used? :)
it is used mostly in video-games and even in film industry.
10:25 ministry of troll silly walks
Incredibly helpful!!
Just one thing, why you retopologize! Cuz' when you have a bad PC, Blender will f*ck up when you try to texture it.
Are details being lost when topogy is not as dance?
If you use a displacement map on it while rendering, you'll get all the details back.
thanks for this great stuff
Happy to help! :)
if i only want to have make textured sculpture Zmesher is ok for that?
Yes
1:21 he explains why we yall need retopo if it makes sense for your situation
11:56 How u do this I thought blend shape work only if have same topology and vertix
3D is often like " next life performance "
so projecting in zbrush is the same as retopologize in maya with quad draw?
no it's not
it's more like the topology brush in zbrush
projection is just so that the details of the polygons placement is projected on the low res as well when we bake the maps
watch their previous video of projection.
Retopology is indeed the option of choice in general to go because it creates less problems, for everything. But if a model is properly optimized, and if the topology is checked and rechecked, by merging nasty vertexs here and there, by collapsing some unnecessary polys etc, i know for a fact it can work. If properly tested with rigging, then uv unraping should be a no brainer. So retopo is still used, but im convinced its gonna fade into a uselles funless tradition soon. And with all this great material composition software like substance, normal baking is gonna be less and less relevant, because why sculpt it if you can work directly the appearence and detail of a shader on top of a simple polymesh? Its like mixing paint and modelling into one.
hi, is it possible retopologize this character to less than 1500 poly? how?
I used to animate without a rig HAHAHA; I actually had to.
Retopology? What is this madness you are talking about
Where was this when I needed it and learned literally all of this from trial and error and articles in circles and circles until a rigged model came out??
do i have to retopologize if im just doing concepts that wouldnt be animated, just textured and rendered? (just want to make things clear)
Top 10 biggest Mysteries
3: permuda triangle
2: titanic
1: WHY WE RETOPOLOGIZE
I retopologise out of habit... simple as that. And the only time I use ZRemesher is on the ears... everything else is hand done
The ears are so tricky. We usually have a premade ear.
@@FlippedNormals Smart man.
Da loops Brudda. Da loops
because of aliens XD
Good video,
If you are interested check out the 2.0 Version of the Blender addon Retopoflow. In my Opinion its by far the most natural and effective tool to create manual retopo.
We've been eyeing this tool for some time now, and it looks fantastic!
so retopo is for better animations? xD
how to retopologize complex character like this to 300 to 1500 poly count? for mobile games
Kill details and use normal maps.
I demand you retopologize, you owe me a Retopology!
You don't really answer the question in this 18 minutes long video. If the anwser is "perfmance" , then why don't you use automatic retopo or decimation ?
When I retopologize , I think of Frank Sinatra- My Way
Max, Blender, Maya... :D you mean Maya, Max, Blender?
is one of you guys danish?
Morten is Danish, Henning is Norwegian.
I’m surprised there isn’t a working, build-in A.I. to focus on eyes and mouth loops during automatic retopology. Like, you should be able to input where the eyes are, where the mouth is, how the limbs flow and then give it to the program and make it retopologize the model, taking into account those details.
At least with faces, there are so similar in structure on low level of details that it would seem that a machine learned A.I. should be able to manage it.
“Ghetto” instant liked
That tip at the end ... It will save alot of agony
It's so handy. Glad it helped.
you guys didnt make a very good argument against z remeshing lol. You essentially showed us how fast z remesher can do 90 percent of the job for us.
4:11
Why not have just one low poly mesh and subdivide it on rendering ? Displacement maps would do the rest
what
Why we reptiles
We retopologize because it's like playing puzzle.
its so strangely satisfying to retopo sometimes, isnt it?
Me a roblox dev:10k tris limit is why i retopology
You did Rita dirty; now you have to apologize.