I'm Canadian and my hunting rifle is a Remington 700 CDL in .308 Win and I use 165 grain bonded. It has done everything for me and my family for 15 years; deer, elk, coyote, boar, wolf, caribou, moose and bear. Our woods are extremely thick, so I've never had to shoot farther than 200 yards. The .308 Win is perfect for my needs.
@@briant7652 Hey there, sorry I noticed I had a typo I use 165 not 150, so I edited my comment. Federal Trophy Copper 165 grain in my .308 works great on elk. I always target double lung and go just behind the leg. In Ontario elk are lottery draw and I've only ever won once.
@@majeddiab2675 Hello, I am in Ontario with thick woods, so my shots are very close. For out west I would strongly suggest 30-06 instead of .308 if you're shooting at a distance.
I may be wrong but I believe the longest shot with the 7.62 NATO during an engagement was around 1400 meters. At that range the round still hits as hard as a 9mm fired out of a 5" barrel. 308 is no joke.
This is why the Tikka t3x Lite I bought after hunting season is a .308. It’s the one round you can ALWAYS find ammo to! I was gonna go 6.5, but you can’t find it.
@@mikes.6985 Sweet. I can’t wait to shoot it later on this fall. I put a Vortex Viper HS 2.5-10x44 on it. I have a couple boxes of 150 Nosler Ballistic tips, 150 Federal Power Shok, and 165 Federal Fusion to shoot out of it then.
hunting moose, elk and wild boars with 308 all my life... when someone says "308 for moose? - idk". then I ask "I hear you, would 30-06 ok?" and get an instant answer "ofc"... then I show energy difference ... its 5-10%, most people think 308 vs 30-06 +25-40% - its not even close to that... 5-10% is nothing, it would be like seeing moose at 200yards and thinking, "damn I wish it was 180 yard, it just wont be enough energy at 200 yards"
IKR, people over caliber so much. "Oh, fixin to hunt them bison? I won't get outta bed unless the 20mm is with me." When in history they were killed with black powder muskets, arrows and spears.
@@swiftbear Thank you for finally bringing up historical references. I don't understand why people feel the need to hunt over 500 yards tbh. Unless you're just in a landscape where it's very difficult to get a clear line of sight without being so far away. If you're close enough, 308 is more than enough for pretty much anything you can hunt in the US and Canada.
I think long range hunting has taken some of the shine off the .308. For most "ethical" distances (inside 300-400 yds) the .308 is plenty. It shoots all kinds of ammo well and next to the .223, it is probably the most available ammo and least expensive.
With premium, high-BC bullets like a 168-grain Berger or Nosler Accubond Long Range, it’ll perform really well at distances exceeding what most hunters are skilled to shoot, especially with hand loads. It can also be loaded with bullets like a 180-gr Partition and be sufficient for elk and moose.
Long range hunting is a joke anyway people still use traditional bows to take game the long range hunting crowd is using their rifles at greater distances as a bandaid for lack of hunting skills.
@@jakekuehl9433 that’s got to be the dumbest take on long range hunting I’ve ever seen. Spend 20 grand and 15 years getting the points for a good elk tag that’s good for 1 week after the rut when the bow hunters get to hunt you can’t blame a guy for wanting every advantage.
@@jaydunbar7538 I totally understand that. I guess it depends on someone's definition of long range hunting. Personally 500 is my maximum depending on the animal. My reference should have been more specific it was geared more towards the crowd of people taking shots 600+ just because they're so many environmental factors that take place that are hard to calculate for in a hunting situation and to your point I'd rather not take a shot at extended ranges and eat the tag then potentially wound an animal all for the sake of trying.
As a young man I had the opportunity to speak with a gentleman in his seventies who hunted all across the world. I asked him what would be a good hunting caliber for North America as my interests were just being peaked. He said " son for just getting into it, I recommend a good old 308 being a lefty you could find them all over the place for about nothing. " And so I took his advice found a nice 110 Savage 308 for less then $330. 14 years later, going hunting... for some reason that 308 ends up in the bags..and not for the lack of other calibers cause I got a lot of those...I've just come to prefer the good old 308. And if it's too far out there! well I guess you just got to get a little closer.
I love my .308, can't imagine life without it. With Hornady 178g eldx at 2600fps my Howa 1500 shoots 1/2 moa. I vote yes, Mark should buy his own and hunt a full year with it.
I hunt with a .308 and have taken numerous deer with it. Longest kill shot 219yds kneeling. I had the opportunity to shoot a .308 at a PRS match (I was a volunteer spotter for the match.) The target was 1426yds out and was able to get impacts 3 out of 5 shots, on a rifle I have never fired before. I served as a 8541 in the Marines in the 90’s, my primary weapons system was the M40A1 with a 10x scope. I’m a believer in the .308 all day long.
It’s not exactly the “best” choice for anything, but it’s good enough at enough stuff, and it’s inexpensive. The thing just WORKS. I agree. You can’t really “hate” it. It just works.
Except for police sniper teams the 308 continues to loose its popularity. It is though an iconic cartridge that we will continue to love. I will always continue to have one but will be shot little.
The famous Canadian Rangers, who are sort of a cross between a paramilitary or cop and a game warden/park ranger (hey, maybe an actual Canuck can explain it better than me!) for decades carried the trusty but venerable .303 Lee-Enfield Mk. IV No. I bolt-action as their long arm. Only recently retired them less than a decade ago. The replacement? A Tikka bolt action chambered in .308 Winchester. Another cartridge which doesn't get the respect it deserves, but just keeps on doing the job, year after year, decade after decade.
@@GeorgiaBoy1961 the rangers are part of our military that patrols our northern remote and costal areas they’re comprised of mostly native Canadians they’re not police or game wardens in any way
I came to the .308 through study of history. In the 60s and 70s and even today, Marine snipers were taught what was modernly called the M-40, 7.62 x 51 mm NATO (.308 Win.) The reasons were ease of access to a cartridge made around the world. A manageable rifle that was easy to carry. And a 175 would take down a 200 pound target at 600 yards. Most combat scenarios are less than 600 yards. I reasoned that was also enough energy to take down whitetail deer. It can shoot a lot of things. From feral hog to mule deer, even moose. It can be shot 1,000 yards, if you need to. Obviously everyone knows of F- class. It is still in use. An author I have read a few books from is Sgt. Nicholas "The Reaper" Irving of the 3rd Ranger Battalion 75th Ranger Regiment. He got the nickname from having the most sniper kills in a single deployment and he served through several. While his sniper team leader carried a .300 WM bolt action, he carried the SR-25 (essentially the Mk 11 Mod 0,) in .308 Win. It was very effective in numerous atmopsheric conditions. He liked the semi-auto because he did not have to move to cycle the next round and he could keep his eye on targets.
I bought My Remington 788 in .308 Winchester back in 1985. It's taken many razor back pigs,rusa, sambar and chittal deer as well as plenty of big water buffalo in north east Arnhem land Australia . In central Australia it's taken many feral camels , horses and donkeys as well as goats ,cats and foxes . It still shoots sub moa , I wouldn't swap it or sell it. It will be my son's one day. I've got many other calibre rifles but as long as I'm within 400 yards the 308 never lets me down.
I live in Alaska and have done all of my hunting with a .308 everything from Beaver to Grizzlies with no issues. I have a FNH Patrol Bolt with 20inch barrel it's heavy but I know the rifle and the round can't miss. I got a 300PRC 2 years ago and I take it out with me but when I step out of the truck I always grab my trusty. 308.
Glad you said this. I live in coastal brown bear country. Not intending to go for brown bear but after buying my .308, I was worried I would be hopelessly undergunned. I'm starting to feel like I made the right choice.
for hunting there is little reason to choose 308 over 30-06, in my opinion. They're pretty darn close ballistically, but the 30-06 just has a more versatility in loads. 308 is better in a military context where brass weight, and reliable full auto cycling is important.
@@christopherrowley7506 yeah for hunting I do use my 30-06 but I've also used .308 and the deer don't know the difference. Like I said, .308 is the perfect do everything cartridge, not the best at anything but good at everything. I use it in my semi autos.
@@christopherrowley7506you could argue there is no reason to choose a 30-06. Longer rifle, not as efficient for pounder, heavier, more recoil, I’m sure I could name more and for what?
@@ULFISHGETTER the weight savings only add up if you're carrying a ton of ammunition, so in a military context 308 makes a lot of sense. In a hunting context, with a lightweight stock and thin barrel you can make any hunting rifle lighter weight than is probably comfortable for most people (in terms of recoil). So the weight savings argument doesn't hold up. It's only a half inch longer which also isn't going to make a noticeable difference in a hunting context. The big benefit of 30-06 over 308 is that the bigger case accommodates a significantly larger variety of powder and bullet loadings. You can choose a large bullet with much more sectional density and still fit enough powder in it to shoot as fast as 308 but still with decent muzzle velocity and decent trajectory. Or you can choose a more standard bullet and really load up the powder to give it a loyal more velocity and kenetic energy than 308. In short, 30-06 is significantly more versatile than 308
My pap had 2 of the model 88s and I loved them. That lever action is slick. I was still young when he passed and wasn't lucky enough to get one of his but I broke down and got my own about 3 years ago. It's my main rifle. I parked my bdl 30-06. Opening day of gun if I watch long range I take my m77 25-06. Everything else is 308
Three words to sum up the adopting of the M-16 in 1965: The Whiz Kids. McNamara mandated it. My father was there from ‘65 to ‘69. What gets lost in this conversation is the troops loved the M-14. It was dependable and effective. The fun switch isn’t an answer to the guy hiding behind a tree in the jungle with 5.56. Fast forward to Afghanistan. The re-rolled it out and made new ones as their engagement ranges neutered 5.56 in a short barreled format. I have a 6.5 CM, but the truth is the .308 rifles go more because the availability and cost. It won’t break you. And during the thick of the ammo crunch, it was the only cartridge I could reliably find. All the others are great, but they aren’t 2x the cost better. I use it and it kills just fine. Why everybody uses it. I absolutely love .308. My club’s longest range steel is about 450 yards. Ding! That’s all the range I need. My friend shot it out to 700 yards. It will kill what you are shooting it at. It will feed bolt action rifles, lever guns and semi auto military carbines. It covers lots of ground. My .308’s are important in my collection. I do like 6.5, and fantasize about a Savage in .280 AI, which I might realize, but to me those are specialty rounds.
What a perfect date to cover this cartridge 03/08! In 1987 I was stationed in Scotland with the US Navy. Our armory was stocked with M-14's, M-60's, M79's, some Shotguns and very few M2-HB. The pistols were M9's but we couldn't use them because of the 9mm moratorium because of reported failures. Long story short, the M14 was the rifle I qualified Expert on. The M14 is still used in the Navy to send messenger lines over to other ships to start Underway Replenishment. Mark, you need a rifle in .308!
I went from a 30-06 to a .308 a few years ago and it's become my primary deer hunting caliber. I switch up and use different calibers from time to time, but I definitely hunt with the .308 the most. I've taken many deer and a coyote with it, and it hasn't let me down yet.
@kevin piersonI know Kevin. The Hornady 150gr Interbonds are what I used though. Kinda of glad I did. Seeing is believing. And they performed very well.
Great video guys. I bought a Bergara HMR .308 in 2019 and before I got a chance to shoot it other than on a 50yd range I moved to another state and it sat in the back of my safe until Oct 2022. After getting settled in my new home I began shooting more precision longer range beginning with a RRA 20” Varmint with good success in 300-500yds. I wanted something more so I switched to a custom bolt action in .223, better but not what I wanted at 500yds. I was digging in my safe and pulled the Bergara out with a SWFA 10x42 scope. After tweaking it a little to get zero in at 100yds I started dialing it up and saw how easy 500yds was with this rifle, much better than the expensive custom .223 and that was with factory ammo. I prepped that same brass and will hopefully get even better results with my reloads. Thanks again for your videos.
308 is a all around choice, for reloaders it can be reloaded into, reduced loads, subsonic loads, standard loads, long range loads, heck! can even get into a touch of mag loads if pressure signs are safe! Even after 30 years of shooting my 308's when it barks! it make me smile that never get old! Thanks for sharing Nate
There's something about 308 that keeps me going I bought a 6.5 creedmoor and sold it also it's funny sitting at Scheels while everyone is buying creedmoor only to find out their ammo is probably online on backorder I get why 308 is falling out of favor for some but I love my 30 calibers
A lot of it depends on your rifle as well, if you have a 20-24 inch barrel and some hefty reloads 308 can do some amazing things but expecting the same out of a shorty 16 or something which I’ve seen plenty of people with doesn’t make sense when talking about overall performance
Wanted to give a shout out to Clay at vortex. He took the time to teach and help on the phone. Saved me from spending too much money for what my application was. Honesty is what I value with a company. You have gained a forever customer here. Keep up what you are doing and never delineate from what sets your company apart from the rest.
I shot a 280 Rem for years and years (still have it) but now that I have a 308, the 280 sits in my safe. Partially due to ammo availability but also because the 308 is such a sweet cartridge. I've used many different cartridges over the years and the 308 is by far my favorite hunting round.
I love the .280 Remington! I’d love to build a lightweight mountain rifle in 280 Ackley improved! Uses 7mm bullets and could use 30-06 brass in a pinch but it has 7mm mag ability. Not gonna find a lot of factory 280 Rem cartridges. But in a perfect world!
I’ve shot a 308 for 40 years for hunting and range fun. Just a round I understand and my Remington 700’s I have a lot of confidence in. One is a custom build and the other is stock. Enjoy what you have.
“Damn fine do all” says it all . I am in the middle of three generations.308 shooters. From coyotes , whitetail, Blackbear, moose . Shot a 63” bull moose with 180 NP .
I chose the .308 initially for a host of reasons, including hunting (hog, white tails), shtf availability. target and (LEO) sniping performance. For my individual uses, its great. I shoot a Savage BA-10 Stealth and have it super dialed in for ergo fit, and accuracy.. It could be lighter, but I'm kinda' stout (and fluffy), so that's not a big issue. Shooting Federal and Hornaday 168g with match grade ammo, its 1/2 moa to 800 yd and minute of man to 1000+ yd, I still want to play with newer chamberings, but its hard to justify my "swiss army rifle" just sitting around...lonely....neglected....unappreciated...while i cheat on it with some new 6 point something Creedhuzzy.
"Don't let perfect be the enemy of the good" That line could have been written about the .308 Winchester as a cartridge, or for that matter, its bigger brother, the 30-06.
And the 308 takes a lot of shots before you burn a barrel out plus it is comparable to all the big guns 270 3006 7mo8 etc etc and ammo is every where got 2of em and am very satified
I love my .308 for so many reasons, such as it is a do-all rifle cartridge capable of taking most any game in the world at average distances, ammo is plentiful and diverse, reasonable recoil, lots of projectile choices, etc.
308 is definitely one of those cartridges that I can see never not having…the rifles I own may change but there will probably always be a 308 in the safe.
In Australia we started making a version of the FAL that we designated the L1A1. Chambered in 7.62 (.308) it was made and used by the Australian Army since 1959. It was our main battle rifle in Vietnam and we used it until it was replaced by the Styer Aug in around about 1990 (ish) I still miss my L1A1.
Load it light or heavy and everything in between. I’ve tried so many but always come back to the .308 for what I shoot. Easy to reload, huge bullet choice, accurate and enough punch for most things. Such a versatile utility cartridge.
I love all my .308s! It’s just a great cartridge within what it’s limits are. Very wide variety of uses. People hate on it for long range precision but the cartridge if you use a good projectile and load, (ex 168 or 175gr SMK) it can absolutely shoot out to 800m on most days and on hot days 1100m isn’t out of the question (shooter skill dependent). It may not be the latest and greatest anymore but it will get the job done.
8x57 would be great! Old guns and weak factory ammo really put a damper on such a great cartridge. I have been slaying hogs for years with handloads which really crank up the performance substantially.
@@WaderHunts Yeah, I’ve been a fan for years! A lot of those Euro cartridges have been dumbed down domestically. I had the deflating experience of going into one of the big box outdoor stores and when I asked the guy who was specifically working in their vast ammo department where the “8mm Mauser” was. He replied that he’d never seen that cartridge and then questioned it existence altogether…🤦🏻♂️
Probably one of my favorite podcasts of your channel. Honest, clear, and accurate. Not that your other videos weren't before. This is what I've told guys wanting to add to the arsenal, besides the 6.5 Grendel. This is a great caliber to own and even pivot from to go in several directions. Thank you!
I feel obliged to comment. Great segment, new to watching, been popping up in feed lately, enjoyed thanks. Cool things I've done with .308: Served in a "direct fire support" role with a tripod mounted MAG-58 in harrassment or direct fire infantry role - out to about 2.5kms (from memory). Carried 3 barrels to each MAG-58, quick swap system, giant piles of brass and link, glowing barrels, easily adjustable gas regulator (with gloves). Nowadays I'm constantly trying to improve and find accurate load developments for my 308 ultralight hunting rifle. R700 20" 9T Proof research carbon barrel, in MDT HNT26 chassis, lightest medium magnification glass I could find, ended up with Leupold at 13 ounces. Note: I do own 2 Vortex optics. Running a big squishy buttpad, and a good design brake, feels like a 223, and weighs about 7lb including bipod and sling. Sub MOA pretty consistently, considering still developing. Best so far is .52, not minusing the .30 off. All touching. Oh and I was in a rifle club with 1000 yd range. It's the only cartridge they used, but that's only because of costs and availability in a semi commy country like Australia. Oh and one other .308 based cartridge not mentioned, that I am also developing and testing, the 375 Raptor! Can't understand why it hasn't taken off, given it shares so many reasons of a logical choice with it's baby brother. 375 Raptor: 400gr subs means 1000flb muzzle, supers are from 175gr to about 300gr. Like 308, plenty of pill choices, common powders. Impressive velocities even with shorter barrels. Bigger bore means quicker burn, minimal velocity gains after 20". My 12.5" barrel gets 2650fps from 175gr. That would be a cool segment, do a dive into this cartridge and its capabilities and logic, especially vs the new kid that seems to be getting promoted, the 8.6 Blackout. What's with the ridiculous twist rate on them? In 375 Raptor, 9T in theory (yet to fully test) stabilizes both. Yes 400gr MAKER brand subs.
Long range target shooting is fantastic with the .308. Standard load with a 168 SMK and IMR4064 with a Federal Primer is pushing 2650FPS and shoot .5 MOA. Very consistent out to the range that is available to me (600 yards). Not only that, but I have no issue at all finding components, because everyone is too busy buying up all the 6.5mm and 6mm projectiles and associated powders. I have an abundance of options available to me as a 30 cal shooter. Not only that, but I'm able to use that surplus of 168 grain projectiles in a variety of cartridges like 300WM, 300WSM and 30-06.
As a hand loader for lots of chambering’s.. .22 Hornet..( which I would enjoy a 10-ish minute talk on) through 45-70 Gvt. I love the .308 and it’s children.. I call them the OG short fat mag.. Ryan and I share the same respect for Barnes X. Pills but in the .243, 7-08 and 308.. they are phenomenal!! Both accuracy and performance out of the several rifles we have tested them in.. Awesome stuff Guys! Keep’em coming!
Hi guys, living in New Jersey and hunting for 60 years now mostly in Penn. and New York State, I used a savage 99 in 300 savage as a 10 year old and still do. Call me crazy but it’s killed everything I shot at. Have many rifles but I always take the 300 savage fo
Excellent for shtf, deer hunting, elk, cougar, or even black bear. Great all around cartridge. We also like the 30-06, does everything listed above with a little more punch.
Mild recoil, accurate, good for most big game in North America, and during the ammunition shortage the past couple years, .308 was available more than most big game cartridges in my area.
Nice to see some love for the savage model 10! I've got 7-8 hundred rounds through mine over the last 11 years and she shoots like an absolute champ! Only issue has been a weak ejector, and that was easily remedied. Just re-zeroed at 50 yds after switching out the muzzle brake and was very comfortably sub-inch with cheap plinking ammo. Definitely need to stretch back to 200 once the weather starts cooperating again No issues with accuracy after cleaning, but all I ever do is take a rag to the action and run a well worn snake down the bore twice before storing, just to avoid any corrosion issues
The M14 was intended to be the general rifle, but generals at the time wanted a full auto capable weapon to combat the Soviet 7.62x39 in the AK, but when the M14 turned out to be terribly uncontrollable in full auto, then came the M16 in the general purpose role. Had the generals known that standard carbines would almost never be used in full auto the .308/7.62nato may have become the standard cartridge (albeit in a different weapon platform, likely the AR10 which Stoner designed before the 15) The AR-15 might have become the special platform relegated to lightweight/rear echelon units
I purchased a 6.5 Creedmoor and during 2020 and 2021 the ammo wasn't available locally but 308 was plentiful so the 308 was my next purchase , and will continue to be my go to from here out .
Any rifle that shoots the 308 is a keeper for many reasons. The main reason is that it can shoot M80 ball ammo. Milspec for 7.62 M80 NATO calls for inspection processes that insure the ammo to be absolutely reliable, storable for multiple decades, and accurate to 1 MOA, specifically 5" radii at 600 yards. (Belt fed ammo 7.5", but who's shooting the M14 or M60 fully automatic and measuring groups?) Number two: When the SHTF, M80 ball ammo is what will be available for rifles. 6.5 Creedmore, 5.56 NATO, 7mm Remington Magnum (probably the best) and 30-06 will all dry up pretty fast when the gun grabbers shut down all the ammo stores. Yup, when the SHTF you'll be able to trade a nice ham or hind quarter of venison to a cop or soldier for a few boxes of 7.62 M80, 12 gauge or 9mm because he'll have access to those rounds. Everything else? FUGEDDABOUDIT!
I’ve used 308 for many hunts in Quebec, black bear and many moose over the years. I like it a lot and have no trouble with follow up shots when needed.
.308 will probably always be the number one full power rifle cartridge for the foreseeable future because it’s fairly cheap, both reloading components and factory loaded ammo is both varied and available, and it’s very good at almost everything, even if it’s not the ideal for a specific task
Watching this episode locked in my choice for a .308 for my first centre fire! Was going a .243 but this just put all my doubts to bed! Here e we come T3X in .308 🥰
Great choice with the .308 win. Got my first buck with it and I’ve loved it ever since. The .243 win is a great choice too and much more capable then one would think!
@@901pics epic mate! I’ve got mine half set. Cheek riser, tac bolt knob, pic rail, muzzle brake to go. Customer wrapping the stock in digital vinyl to. Can’t afford a chassis yet so it will suffice until then
Cartridges made using a 30-06 case was used by wildcatters with just about every bullet diameter. I know this is knit-picking, but it has. More than the 308. That said, the 308 is a fantastic cartridge. I load a 165gr Hornady BTSP Interlock at 2470fps for general purpose hunting now on my ranch. The longest I can shoot due to vegetation and terrain elevation variances, might be 130yds. White tails, Axis, wild hogs, it works. It also is not much recoil either. I call it my kid load, but as an old fart, I like it these days. Every nephew, my kids, neighbor's kids, friends kids, have taken game effectively at the ranch with this gun / scope / load combo. It is a Savage 110, basic rifle. It is accurate. I hit an accuracy node during load development I loved so wrote it down to do refinement later. At 100yds, even in old shaky hands, I can get .5". I developed that load to be a cold, clean bore 1 shot gun. The 308 is quite useful, mild mannered in recoil, uses proven bullets, and works. Not new, not sexy, just works.
What a legend! Have my own .308 Howe 1500 26" heavy barrel, shoot it all the time all day and it is beaut! I only clean the barrel with some RAM oil, and it never dissapoints weather on the range up to a 1000m or on the hunt everything bows a kniee in front of the muzzel all the way up to Cape Buffalo with a 180gr Sako Super Hammer Head.
The US military abandoned the 308 as a battle rifle cartridge because the M14 was an antiquated design and particularly bad under full auto which was something the Army wanted. The operating rod system and the open top action introduced a lot of weird stresses and made it flexy which hurt accuracy. The Air Force had already switched to the M16. Most of the other NATO countries kept their 7.62 battle rifles (either the FAL or G3) well into the 90s. Look at those rifles which were designed around the same time and the M14 looks old fashioned.
The problem was that when the US Military transitioned to the M-14 / .308, they were also wanting a select fire weapon platform. The 7.62 NATO recoil was uncontrollable in automatic. When I went to USMC boot camp in the early 1970's we used M-14's in training, but were issued M-16's in the fleet.
Ditto! I was fortunate to wind up at an Amphibious command working along with SEALs and Marines, my favorite groups of military people. On one training evolution on San Clemente Island, we had 20 M-14’s and 50 full cases of 7.62x51 NATO to burn. I never ever thought I’d tire of shooting but, once those barrels started approaching a dull red we quit shooting. We feared rounds cooking off prematurely and the rifles were very uncomfortable to shoot. Wound up stacking leftover ammunition on top of 5 Claymore mines and lighting it off from a distance. The next morning there was still hot stuff going off. Our EOD guys had a dramatic flare and had tamped the whole pile down with full gasoline cans and old pallets. Quite a light show!
The design requirements for the rifle which became the M-14, presumably written by the Army Ordnance Dept. back in the 1950s, are a great example of pie-in-the-sky, what were those guys smoking/drinking (?) nonsense. Designing a good service rifle is hard-enough without some moron with too much rank deciding that it has to replace virtually every small-arm used by the typical Marine or Army soldier. You have to wonder how much those people - that particular individual - knew about firearms in the first place. The M-14 was not only supposed to replace the BAR, but also the Thompson & M3 "Grease Gun" SMGs, the M-1/M-2 Carbine, and also the M-1 Garand itself. I do not know if it is even possible from a design/engineering standpoint to replace cartridges and the weapons that fire them, so dissimilar as the .30 Carbine (a hot-rodded pistol cartridge) and the .45 ACP (a genuine pistol cartridge) on one hand and the long-action 30-06 used in the Garand, BAR and M1919 medium machine gun. In a way, it is miraculous that the M-14 turned out as well as it did, considering that someone - maybe a committee of someones - at Ordnance, had a screw loose.
Re .300 Savage in comparison to .308 Win: That the Savage 99 chambering went, by choice, to .308 Win in place of Savage’s own .300 Savage says it all. The .308 Win is like Vanilla for those who forget that Vanilla is an exotic expensive spice which contributes to and subtly enhances a wide variety of flavors and recipes.
Ive read in articles past that the government was looking hard at the 300 Savage but Arthur Savage wanted big $ for his design. May or not be true, Winchester had always been in bed with the US government so the government asked Winchester to basically duplicate the Savage. They did…. You can still make 308 out of 300 savage brass I believe…. Or it vise versus? I cant remember.
@@curtmcelvain1749 yes I understand it was that Winchester was in bed with the army, but they also wanted the round to be straight walled so the magazines would be straight. So they crate up better for transfer and they won't confuse soldiers on the field of battle.
I had a custom built 308 (Saltzman Gun Works) specifically so that I could semi cheaply become a better shooter. I purposely built it to be light weigh with a CF barrel and stock and with the break on it I can shoot it quite a bit. It really loves the 175gr SMK, but also nicely groups 150gr soft points. I got it specifically for accuracy, hunting, training, end of the world, and tactical applications. It was the cartridge that is in abundance and has enough things around to load for that it fits all of the things.
If I wanted to shoot extra long range, 762/308 wouldn't be the choice. 762/308 is an all-rounder, that can protect Americans (maybe not in Alaska) from all predators and can take all game. It's the rifle to get when you can only have one, and it has an earned place in America's gun safe.
I bought a Browning hells canyon speed several years ago in .308 after changing scopes several times I settled in on a Swarovski 2-10 and started hand loading for it , it's now my favorite rifle , my go to , every time !
There are a number of resources available for the switching g of 308 to 223 for military use, the short version seems to be that it was not the cartidge design but the weapon design that was the major factor. The m16 was a modern design intermediate cartidge that was light in weight ideal for varied environmental condition (jungles, especially). While the m14 was closely related to the M1 Garand, but not close enough to save on significant retooling costs to develope the M14. Which was originally sold to the war department as easily able to convert grand relievers to M14 relievers. Earlier attempts to add a box magazine and select fire capability to the m1 grand were unsuccessful, even with the help of John C. Grand, who came back from retirement to help with the project, even though me explained to the Army that it was not possible before he retired. The cartidges were too much onthe 308 side for a select fire weapon for military use, and too light on the 223 side. The 308 was totally uncontrollable in full auto fire and the 223 was unable to Pentwater the jungle foliage in its original 55 grain bullet loading. So the cartidges were the least considered. Politics also played a part, col. Stadler at Springfield armory wanted the M14 to fight the Russians in Europe, long distance mechanized infantry applications. The M16, was given approval by General Curtis Lemay as a light rifle for the Ait Forces use to guard bases and planes. The M16 was flung into service by Secretary McNamara in the war in Vietnam, which had not been fully field tested by the Army for weaknesses in the rifle and ammunition combinations. The Army didn't want the 5.56 in the first place and resisted and honest appraisal of the rifle and ammunition, which resulted in unnecessary deaths in Vietnam. The rifle and ammunitionproblems have been sorted out as a result of failures after issuing to troops rather than forethought. A long winded post to answer some of the history concerning these cartidges, which are good cartidges, but were the extremes on both ends for a general issue infantry weapon. It is my speculation the the 280 British devolved after WW2 would have better Met the needs for an infantry weapon. Hope this helps. Loved the podcast on the 308!
I gotta think "suppressive fire" is key in combat, and since 223 gets that job done at much lighter weight than 308, it allows soldiers to carry more ammo. Thereby expanding their capabilities to maneuver and sustain engagements.
Gentleman, Once again you've stumbled across the truth about a cartridge that has been around for probably at least a generation before any of you were born. The 308 Winchester has been doing the job for all those years and will keep doing it far into the future. The 300 Savage was developed to match the original 150 grain 30-06 loading used in the '03 Springfield rifle at about 2700 fps and it did. However for whatever reason, it didn't make the cut to replace the 30-06. In one of my favorite old reloading manuals, the Speer #6 from 1963, it was somewhat derided as not being a good cartridge for reloading because of its case characteristics; short, fat, short-necked with a sharp shoulder. The same characteristics that some today consider to be great. Commercial SAAMI specs for the 300 Savage were detuned because of fears that the older Savage model 99 rifles were not strong enough for the pressures generated by the military loadings. In reality there is very little practical difference between the 300 Savage and the 308 Winchester, especially when hand loaded for good bolt action rifles or the later Savage 99's. In my mind, the biggest advantage of all the 30 calibers over the smaller bore diameters is that they make a bigger hole going in and a bigger hole coming out. The following is a comparison from the Speer #6 manual of 300 Savage, 308 Winchester and 30-06 using maximum charges of the same powder and the same primer behind the same 150 grain bullet. For the 300 Savage, using Remington cases in a Remington Model 722 with a 24 inch barrel, the yield was 2800 fps. For the 308 using Western cases in a 22 inch barreled Model 70 Winchester the result was 2812 fps, but it took two more grains of the same powder to generate that statistically insignificant 12 fps difference in velocity. For the 30-06 using TW-5 government cases with eight more grains of powder in a Springfield rifle the result was 2998 fps. Now Hornady has upped the game across the board for all of these cartridges, but from fastest to slowest without checking the charts, I doubt that there is 50 yards difference in maximum effective point blank range. Regarding the 308, Speer said "Because it is short and has a strong head, it is better adapted to semi-automatic actions than the 30-06, but because of its limited powder capacity it can never equal the 30-06 ballistically". Regardless of this probably still correct assessment, I doubt that for hunting at any ethical shooting distance no deer or other game will notice the difference.
The military part of the equation evolved as a result of the changing of the guards, so to speak. Army Ordinance and Procurement had always had a complete "hands off" attitude about calibers and designs. When most of NATO adopted the FN FAL the US wanted it in 30-06. Europeans were adamantly opposed but ok with the 7.62x51 due to the similarity of all their previous 6 - 8 mm calibers and milder recoil. The M-14 lost the Ordinance trials to the T-48 (FAL) but the non traditional look freaked the Army traditionalists. A heavy rifle with teething problems, heavy ammo load, it triggered calls for another weapon. Enter Eugene Stoner and the M-16. The "Mattel toy rifle" was 3-4 pounds lighter and the cartridge developed by Remington used a flaked powder and burned cleanly enough that officials touted the weapons didn't need hardly any cleaning. President Kennedy's Secretary of Defense Robert McNamarra saw that 80,000 M16s and ammunition had been ordered for the new Air Force by Gen. Curtis LeMay and, simply put, wanted to streamline the weapons and ammo across the services. When mass production of the 5.56x45 began the plants changed the powders used which caused twice the fouling issues and the early poor reputation of the M16. The 7.62x51 while being used across the world in Cetme, H&K91, and FAL (called "the free world's right arm") rifles in heavy use, it was relegated to medium machine guns and DMR rifles in the USA. The .308 while similar, is different and one of the optimum hunting cartridges of all times, especially for the handloader with one of the widest selections of bullet weights, powders and application of any caliber.
I love the 308 for almost everything. I have done all distances of the Milk Jug Challenge with a Sako Long Range w/ 175 gr match burners. 1000,1200,1500 and 1 mile . I use the Barnes TTSX in 130,150 and ,168 .The 168 ABLR makes the Kimber MA a 1000 yard capable hunting 308 . You can combine rifle and bullet selection to accomplish just about every task . It is the standard by which almost everything else is measured, because it is so versatile and efficient .
Preaching to the choir on the 308. I've shot one for 10+ years and have taken coyote, whitetail, antelope, mule deer, and elk. It is not the best choice from probably anything but everything falls to it.
I hunt in northern Alabama with a .308 and a .300 win mag. As much as I love my win mag, my .308 has a 22 in barrel compared to my 26 in barrel on my win mag and the recoil is a lot more forgiving. All the deer I’ve downed have all been with the .308 and hopefully there will be many more.💪🏻
308 is the round that got me into reloading. after almost 5 years I finally shot out my 308 barrel on my rifle and replaced it with a 7mm-08 and just necked down all the brass and kept going. I'm going to be doing the same when I shoot out my 6mm creed barrel, going to replace it with a 22creed barrel.
The 7.62x51 / 308 was built to replace the 30-06 as both main battle rifle and general-purpose machine-gun in the US and throughout NATO countries in the form of the FN-FAL "the Right-Arm of the Free World" from 1953 to the present in over 60 countries. It was far from a Niche cartridge the was supplanted by the new .223 / 5.56x45 cartridge. PS. You haven't lived until you fired a Remington model 81 in .300 savage. or the Winchester Model 100 in 308 they're a real hoot to shoot.
Deer, Elk, and Bear in Washington are like beer. They are the object you seek from the can. And even before the pull tab came out you could open that can with a can opener. My .308 is a can opener. Who cares how you get to the beer? Who cares how you take the bear? The .308 has and will work forever. It is the small block Chevy of the woods!
I have 3 .308 rifles. I bought them because I reload, bullets and ammo are relatively inexpensive and easy to find. And the cartridge can do everything I need it to.
Cant wait to start loading. Saved up for a 7 turret loader now just need the rest of everything. Have a bunch of spent brass shot from my rifle ready to go
Who shoots game 500 to 1000 yards. To criticize a caliber for performance at that range is sad. Most game is shot under 200 yards. There are hunting calibers and target calibers. If you can only afford one gun, a 308 is a good choice.
Always been a 30-06 guy. Picked up a 308 just cause I wanted something different. It surprised me how much more comfortable it was to shoot and how many more accurate shots I could get off without getting fatigued. Not sacrifice much horsepower either. I’ll probably make a permanent switch lol.
Love my 308s! I love my 6.5s also but, currently, good luck finding relatively inexpensive 6.5 ammo. I've been able to find FGMM in 168, 175 and 185 on the shelves and loan applications and credit checks weren't required. It's plenty accurate but, at distance, you've really got to pay attention to the wind. Everyone thinks that's a bad thing but it forces one to improve their ability to accurately judge the wind conditions, which has made shooting the 6.5 CM much easier. When it comes to reloading, the road has been paved several times over so it's as easy as gathering the necessary equipment and components and you'll be shooting sub MOA easily.
The .308 just kills. It works really good. Of all the animals I have had to track while hunting and guiding very few were to the .308. I would say the 7mm Mag is the one cartridge that I have had to track more game from, and I believe its because its too much gun for a lots of shooters.
I am glad that i was able to pick up a 308 Remington 700 ADL about three years ago 24 inch barrel very accurate and i can find ammo for it i have been hunting with my 30-30 Marlin made by Marlin but finding ammo is hard right now and if you find it you get robbed the price of it is unreal.
I’ve used my ruger American predator many of times to shoot past 1,000yds. Love this caliber I also have a 6.5 but I’m more comfortable with my .308 for some reason.
Just returned from my first 308 hunt. Took a 6 point whitetail using Norma 140 grain boattail. One shot in the vitals dropprd this South Texas buck in about 20 feet from bullet impact. Very impressive. First time with 308, usually use 30-06 with 180 gr. Accu-shock round. Next hunt, planning to use my 6.5 creedmore with 140 gr. Norma whitetail. Can't wait.
I'm Canadian and my hunting rifle is a Remington 700 CDL in .308 Win and I use 165 grain bonded. It has done everything for me and my family for 15 years; deer, elk, coyote, boar, wolf, caribou, moose and bear. Our woods are extremely thick, so I've never had to shoot farther than 200 yards. The .308 Win is perfect for my needs.
That fool Justin hasn’t banned all firearms in Canada yet?
How did it perform on elk?
@@briant7652 Hey there, sorry I noticed I had a typo I use 165 not 150, so I edited my comment.
Federal Trophy Copper 165 grain in my .308 works great on elk. I always target double lung and go just behind the leg. In Ontario elk are lottery draw and I've only ever won once.
@@majeddiab2675 Hello, I am in Ontario with thick woods, so my shots are very close. For out west I would strongly suggest 30-06 instead of .308 if you're shooting at a distance.
I had one .308 at one point. A year and a half or two later and there are 5. The rifles breed in the dark.
Lol brother,👍
Fact
Word, that. 😆
Damn! That's good news, I hope my Tavor 7 reproduces, though the subsequent generations will probably be circumcised of their OEM muzzle breaks...🤣
YUP
A 36 minute 10 minute talk, I love you guys.
LOL Yeah, that "math" really doesn't work out, does it? They must have developed a Time Machine to cram 36min into a 10min video!
@@kx8960 10 min talk x 308 gives you 30.8 mins right.
I may be wrong but I believe the longest shot with the 7.62 NATO during an engagement was around 1400 meters. At that range the round still hits as hard as a 9mm fired out of a 5" barrel. 308 is no joke.
Just a month ago I hit the 12 x 8 inch target at 1280 yards with 308 , 1:10 tw ,24 inch 175 gr smk fps 2720, PGW Coyote rifle
i just ordered a .308 for 1 reason: i can find ammo for it
A good reason to order a .308!
You won't regret it 👍.
This is why the Tikka t3x Lite I bought after hunting season is a .308. It’s the one round you can ALWAYS find ammo to! I was gonna go 6.5, but you can’t find it.
@@pens87668 you're going to fall in love with that .308 the more you use it.
@@mikes.6985 Sweet. I can’t wait to shoot it later on this fall. I put a Vortex Viper HS 2.5-10x44 on it. I have a couple boxes of 150 Nosler Ballistic tips, 150 Federal Power Shok, and 165 Federal Fusion to shoot out of it then.
hunting moose, elk and wild boars with 308 all my life... when someone says "308 for moose? - idk". then I ask "I hear you, would 30-06 ok?" and get an instant answer "ofc"... then I show energy difference ... its 5-10%, most people think 308 vs 30-06 +25-40% - its not even close to that... 5-10% is nothing, it would be like seeing moose at 200yards and thinking, "damn I wish it was 180 yard, it just wont be enough energy at 200 yards"
IKR, people over caliber so much. "Oh, fixin to hunt them bison? I won't get outta bed unless the 20mm is with me." When in history they were killed with black powder muskets, arrows and spears.
@@swiftbear Thank you for finally bringing up historical references. I don't understand why people feel the need to hunt over 500 yards tbh. Unless you're just in a landscape where it's very difficult to get a clear line of sight without being so far away. If you're close enough, 308 is more than enough for pretty much anything you can hunt in the US and Canada.
I think long range hunting has taken some of the shine off the .308. For most "ethical" distances (inside 300-400 yds) the .308 is plenty. It shoots all kinds of ammo well and next to the .223, it is probably the most available ammo and least expensive.
Very well said !
With premium, high-BC bullets like a 168-grain Berger or Nosler Accubond Long Range, it’ll perform really well at distances exceeding what most hunters are skilled to shoot, especially with hand loads. It can also be loaded with bullets like a 180-gr Partition and be sufficient for elk and moose.
Long range hunting is a joke anyway people still use traditional bows to take game the long range hunting crowd is using their rifles at greater distances as a bandaid for lack of hunting skills.
@@jakekuehl9433 that’s got to be the dumbest take on long range hunting I’ve ever seen. Spend 20 grand and 15 years getting the points for a good elk tag that’s good for 1 week after the rut when the bow hunters get to hunt you can’t blame a guy for wanting every advantage.
@@jaydunbar7538 I totally understand that. I guess it depends on someone's definition of long range hunting. Personally 500 is my maximum depending on the animal. My reference should have been more specific it was geared more towards the crowd of people taking shots 600+ just because they're so many environmental factors that take place that are hard to calculate for in a hunting situation and to your point I'd rather not take a shot at extended ranges and eat the tag then potentially wound an animal all for the sake of trying.
As a young man I had the opportunity to speak with a gentleman in his seventies who hunted all across the world. I asked him what would be a good hunting caliber for North America as my interests were just being peaked. He said " son for just getting into it, I recommend a good old 308 being a lefty you could find them all over the place for about nothing. "
And so I took his advice found a nice 110 Savage 308 for less then $330. 14 years later, going hunting... for some reason that 308 ends up in the bags..and not for the lack of other calibers cause I got a lot of those...I've just come to prefer the good old 308.
And if it's too far out there! well I guess you just got to get a little closer.
Hah it’s almost like we’re synchronizing our publications! M24 SWS going hot on our channel this week!
Looking forward to it!
3 moa is trash!
308 is making a comeback with the surge in popularity of hunting suppressed. 308 is not penalized greatly with short barrel lengths.
I love my .308, can't imagine life without it. With Hornady 178g eldx at 2600fps my Howa 1500 shoots 1/2 moa. I vote yes, Mark should buy his own and hunt a full year with it.
Agreed! We'll get on Mark about that!
Got my first buck this year with my howa 1500 308. Love it
very nice my rifle has been liking 2620fps area with barns but I'm looking into more expensive bullets.
I hunt with a .308 and have taken numerous deer with it. Longest kill shot 219yds kneeling. I had the opportunity to shoot a .308 at a PRS match (I was a volunteer spotter for the match.) The target was 1426yds out and was able to get impacts 3 out of 5 shots, on a rifle I have never fired before. I served as a 8541 in the Marines in the 90’s, my primary weapons system was the M40A1 with a 10x scope. I’m a believer in the .308 all day long.
SEMPER FI🇺🇸-0351!
It’s not exactly the “best” choice for anything, but it’s good enough at enough stuff, and it’s inexpensive. The thing just WORKS. I agree. You can’t really “hate” it. It just works.
I wouldn't say all that it's a perfect deer to elk even moose round so its a great hunting round
Except for police sniper teams the 308 continues to loose its popularity. It is though an iconic cartridge that we will continue to love. I will always continue to have one but will be shot little.
The famous Canadian Rangers, who are sort of a cross between a paramilitary or cop and a game warden/park ranger (hey, maybe an actual Canuck can explain it better than me!) for decades carried the trusty but venerable .303 Lee-Enfield Mk. IV No. I bolt-action as their long arm. Only recently retired them less than a decade ago. The replacement? A Tikka bolt action chambered in .308 Winchester. Another cartridge which doesn't get the respect it deserves, but just keeps on doing the job, year after year, decade after decade.
@@GeorgiaBoy1961 the rangers are part of our military that patrols our northern remote and costal areas they’re comprised of mostly native Canadians they’re not police or game wardens in any way
@@Brentor14 - Thanks for giving me the straight scoop.
I came to the .308 through study of history. In the 60s and 70s and even today, Marine snipers were taught what was modernly called the M-40, 7.62 x 51 mm NATO (.308 Win.) The reasons were ease of access to a cartridge made around the world. A manageable rifle that was easy to carry. And a 175 would take down a 200 pound target at 600 yards. Most combat scenarios are less than 600 yards.
I reasoned that was also enough energy to take down whitetail deer. It can shoot a lot of things. From feral hog to mule deer, even moose. It can be shot 1,000 yards, if you need to. Obviously everyone knows of F- class.
It is still in use. An author I have read a few books from is Sgt. Nicholas "The Reaper" Irving of the 3rd Ranger Battalion 75th Ranger Regiment. He got the nickname from having the most sniper kills in a single deployment and he served through several. While his sniper team leader carried a .300 WM bolt action, he carried the SR-25 (essentially the Mk 11 Mod 0,) in .308 Win. It was very effective in numerous atmopsheric conditions. He liked the semi-auto because he did not have to move to cycle the next round and he could keep his eye on targets.
I bought My Remington 788 in .308 Winchester back in 1985. It's taken many razor back pigs,rusa, sambar and chittal deer as well as plenty of big water buffalo in north east Arnhem land Australia . In central Australia it's taken many feral camels , horses and donkeys as well as goats ,cats and foxes .
It still shoots sub moa , I wouldn't swap it or sell it. It will be my son's one day.
I've got many other calibre rifles but as long as I'm within 400 yards the 308 never lets me down.
I live in Alaska and have done all of my hunting with a .308 everything from Beaver to Grizzlies with no issues. I have a FNH Patrol Bolt with 20inch barrel it's heavy but I know the rifle and the round can't miss. I got a 300PRC 2 years ago and I take it out with me but when I step out of the truck I always grab my trusty. 308.
What ranges/grain weight did you take the grizzlies with?
Nosler 168GR ACCUBOND LONG RANGE TROPHY GRADE 175 to 250 meters range.
Glad you said this. I live in coastal brown bear country. Not intending to go for brown bear but after buying my .308, I was worried I would be hopelessly undergunned. I'm starting to feel like I made the right choice.
@@fcomarr8656 Also, an Alaskan resident, you have a pair of BALLS. 300 Weatherby Magnum all-day long.
In my opinion .308 is the perfect do all cartridge. Not the best at anything but good at everything. It's definitely my favorite caliber.
for hunting there is little reason to choose 308 over 30-06, in my opinion. They're pretty darn close ballistically, but the 30-06 just has a more versatility in loads. 308 is better in a military context where brass weight, and reliable full auto cycling is important.
@@christopherrowley7506 yeah for hunting I do use my 30-06 but I've also used .308 and the deer don't know the difference. Like I said, .308 is the perfect do everything cartridge, not the best at anything but good at everything. I use it in my semi autos.
@@christopherrowley7506you could argue there is no reason to choose a 30-06. Longer rifle, not as efficient for pounder, heavier, more recoil, I’m sure I could name more and for what?
@@ULFISHGETTER the weight savings only add up if you're carrying a ton of ammunition, so in a military context 308 makes a lot of sense. In a hunting context, with a lightweight stock and thin barrel you can make any hunting rifle lighter weight than is probably comfortable for most people (in terms of recoil). So the weight savings argument doesn't hold up.
It's only a half inch longer which also isn't going to make a noticeable difference in a hunting context.
The big benefit of 30-06 over 308 is that the bigger case accommodates a significantly larger variety of powder and bullet loadings. You can choose a large bullet with much more sectional density and still fit enough powder in it to shoot as fast as 308 but still with decent muzzle velocity and decent trajectory. Or you can choose a more standard bullet and really load up the powder to give it a loyal more velocity and kenetic energy than 308. In short, 30-06 is significantly more versatile than 308
@@christopherrowley7506 I’m glad I own both :))) multiple of both
308 is all I hunt with now. I've had 30-06, 300 win mag, and still have a 30-30. But the one gun option for me is my Model 70 Featherweight in 308.
The 308 is really good at quick follow up shots. Thats one of the best things the 308 has going for it.
I too own that Winchester in .308 and absolutely love it.
My pap had 2 of the model 88s and I loved them. That lever action is slick. I was still young when he passed and wasn't lucky enough to get one of his but I broke down and got my own about 3 years ago. It's my main rifle. I parked my bdl 30-06. Opening day of gun if I watch long range I take my m77 25-06. Everything else is 308
Three words to sum up the adopting of the M-16 in 1965: The Whiz Kids. McNamara mandated it. My father was there from ‘65 to ‘69. What gets lost in this conversation is the troops loved the M-14. It was dependable and effective. The fun switch isn’t an answer to the guy hiding behind a tree in the jungle with 5.56. Fast forward to Afghanistan. The re-rolled it out and made new ones as their engagement ranges neutered 5.56 in a short barreled format.
I have a 6.5 CM, but the truth is the .308 rifles go more because the availability and cost. It won’t break you. And during the thick of the ammo crunch, it was the only cartridge I could reliably find. All the others are great, but they aren’t 2x the cost better. I use it and it kills just fine. Why everybody uses it. I absolutely love .308. My club’s longest range steel is about 450 yards. Ding! That’s all the range I need. My friend shot it out to 700 yards. It will kill what you are shooting it at. It will feed bolt action rifles, lever guns and semi auto military carbines. It covers lots of ground. My .308’s are important in my collection. I do like 6.5, and fantasize about a Savage in .280 AI, which I might realize, but to me those are specialty rounds.
What a perfect date to cover this cartridge 03/08!
In 1987 I was stationed in Scotland with the US Navy. Our armory was stocked with M-14's, M-60's, M79's, some Shotguns and very few M2-HB. The pistols were M9's but we couldn't use them because of the 9mm moratorium because of reported failures. Long story short, the M14 was the rifle I qualified Expert on.
The M14 is still used in the Navy to send messenger lines over to other ships to start Underway Replenishment.
Mark, you need a rifle in .308!
I went from a 30-06 to a .308 a few years ago and it's become my primary deer hunting caliber. I switch up and use different calibers from time to time, but I definitely hunt with the .308 the most. I've taken many deer and a coyote with it, and it hasn't let me down yet.
Took my 1400+ lb. Buffalo with a bonded Hornady 150gr 308 load. Shot was a pass through broadside shot. 308 Win. is a great all around caliber.
Personally witnessed a client take a Cape Eland with an.308. Very impressive round when done correctly.
@@brackishbass And you still have great bullet options beyond that 150gr. One of many nice aspects of this caliber.
@kevin piersonI know Kevin. The Hornady 150gr Interbonds are what I used though. Kinda of glad I did. Seeing is believing. And they performed very well.
Great video guys. I bought a Bergara HMR .308 in 2019 and before I got a chance to shoot it other than on a 50yd range I moved to another state and it sat in the back of my safe until Oct 2022. After getting settled in my new home I began shooting more precision longer range beginning with a RRA 20” Varmint with good success in 300-500yds. I wanted something more so I switched to a custom bolt action in .223, better but not what I wanted at 500yds. I was digging in my safe and pulled the Bergara out with a SWFA 10x42 scope. After tweaking it a little to get zero in at 100yds I started dialing it up and saw how easy 500yds was with this rifle, much better than the expensive custom .223 and that was with factory ammo. I prepped that same brass and will hopefully get even better results with my reloads. Thanks again for your videos.
308 is a all around choice, for reloaders it can be reloaded into, reduced loads, subsonic loads, standard loads, long range loads, heck! can even get into a touch of mag loads if pressure signs are safe! Even after 30 years of shooting my 308's when it barks! it make me smile that never get old! Thanks for sharing Nate
There's something about 308 that keeps me going I bought a 6.5 creedmoor and sold it also it's funny sitting at Scheels while everyone is buying creedmoor only to find out their ammo is probably online on backorder I get why 308 is falling out of favor for some but I love my 30 calibers
A lot of it depends on your rifle as well, if you have a 20-24 inch barrel and some hefty reloads 308 can do some amazing things but expecting the same out of a shorty 16 or something which I’ve seen plenty of people with doesn’t make sense when talking about overall performance
@@imperialwhovian3461 People rarely talk about barrel length. It can be a major factor in how well any round performs.
Wanted to give a shout out to Clay at vortex. He took the time to teach and help on the phone. Saved me from spending too much money for what my application was. Honesty is what I value with a company. You have gained a forever customer here. Keep up what you are doing and never delineate from what sets your company apart from the rest.
I shot a 280 Rem for years and years (still have it) but now that I have a 308, the 280 sits in my safe. Partially due to ammo availability but also because the 308 is such a sweet cartridge. I've used many different cartridges over the years and the 308 is by far my favorite hunting round.
I love the .280 Remington! I’d love to build a lightweight mountain rifle in 280 Ackley improved! Uses 7mm bullets and could use 30-06 brass in a pinch but it has 7mm mag ability. Not gonna find a lot of factory 280 Rem cartridges. But in a perfect world!
I Did the exact same thing
look online for 280 rem
I’ve shot a 308 for 40 years for hunting and range fun. Just a round I understand and my Remington 700’s I have a lot of confidence in. One is a custom build and the other is stock. Enjoy what you have.
“Damn fine do all” says it all . I am in the middle of three generations.308 shooters. From coyotes , whitetail, Blackbear, moose . Shot a 63” bull moose with 180 NP .
I chose the .308 initially for a host of reasons, including hunting (hog, white tails), shtf availability. target and (LEO) sniping performance. For my individual uses, its great. I shoot a Savage BA-10 Stealth and have it super dialed in for ergo fit, and accuracy.. It could be lighter, but I'm kinda' stout (and fluffy), so that's not a big issue. Shooting Federal and Hornaday 168g with match grade ammo, its 1/2 moa to 800 yd and minute of man to 1000+ yd, I still want to play with newer chamberings, but its hard to justify my "swiss army rifle" just sitting around...lonely....neglected....unappreciated...while i cheat on it with some new 6 point something Creedhuzzy.
I purchased a tikka superlite in .308 win for all of the reasons you just said. Thanks for the validation!
"Don't let perfect be the enemy of the good" That line could have been written about the .308 Winchester as a cartridge, or for that matter, its bigger brother, the 30-06.
And the 308 takes a lot of shots before you burn a barrel out plus it is comparable to all the big guns 270 3006 7mo8 etc etc and ammo is every where got 2of em and am very satified
Grow up son and stop posting immature disgusting acronyms on a public video.
I love my .308 for so many reasons, such as it is a do-all rifle cartridge capable of taking most any game in the world at average distances, ammo is plentiful and diverse, reasonable recoil, lots of projectile choices, etc.
308 is definitely one of those cartridges that I can see never not having…the rifles I own may change but there will probably always be a 308 in the safe.
In Australia we started making a version of the FAL that we designated the L1A1. Chambered in 7.62 (.308) it was made and used by the Australian Army since 1959. It was our main battle rifle in Vietnam and we used it until it was replaced by the Styer Aug in around about 1990 (ish) I still miss my L1A1.
Load it light or heavy and everything in between. I’ve tried so many but always come back to the .308 for what I shoot. Easy to reload, huge bullet choice, accurate and enough punch for most things. Such a versatile utility cartridge.
It's about time y'all do a 10 minute on the .308! Wait, oh, I see what you did there... .308 on 03/08/2022.
yes… and almost 10 min x 3.08 talk time! 😆
I love all my .308s! It’s just a great cartridge within what it’s limits are. Very wide variety of uses. People hate on it for long range precision but the cartridge if you use a good projectile and load, (ex 168 or 175gr SMK) it can absolutely shoot out to 800m on most days and on hot days 1100m isn’t out of the question (shooter skill dependent). It may not be the latest and greatest anymore but it will get the job done.
It’s an EXCELLENT all around cartridge. It’s a Goldilocks cartridge…it’s “just right” for so many situations. Y’all need a 8x57J/JS video!
8x57 would be great! Old guns and weak factory ammo really put a damper on such a great cartridge. I have been slaying hogs for years with handloads which really crank up the performance substantially.
@@WaderHunts Yeah, I’ve been a fan for years! A lot of those Euro cartridges have been dumbed down domestically. I had the deflating experience of going into one of the big box outdoor stores and when I asked the guy who was specifically working in their vast ammo department where the “8mm Mauser” was. He replied that he’d never seen that cartridge and then questioned it existence altogether…🤦🏻♂️
We'll add that to our list! Thanks for tuning in!
@@WaderHunts INTERESTING! What does your favorite load look like...? I'd love to try handloads in my m76...
Probably one of my favorite podcasts of your channel. Honest, clear, and accurate. Not that your other videos weren't before.
This is what I've told guys wanting to add to the arsenal, besides the 6.5 Grendel. This is a great caliber to own and even pivot from to go in several directions.
Thank you!
If you have a .22LR and a .308 you can do everything and anything, they might not be the best but they can do it.
I feel obliged to comment. Great segment, new to watching, been popping up in feed lately, enjoyed thanks. Cool things I've done with .308: Served in a "direct fire support" role with a tripod mounted MAG-58 in harrassment or direct fire infantry role - out to about 2.5kms (from memory). Carried 3 barrels to each MAG-58, quick swap system, giant piles of brass and link, glowing barrels, easily adjustable gas regulator (with gloves). Nowadays I'm constantly trying to improve and find accurate load developments for my 308 ultralight hunting rifle. R700 20" 9T Proof research carbon barrel, in MDT HNT26 chassis, lightest medium magnification glass I could find, ended up with Leupold at 13 ounces. Note: I do own 2 Vortex optics. Running a big squishy buttpad, and a good design brake, feels like a 223, and weighs about 7lb including bipod and sling.
Sub MOA pretty consistently, considering still developing. Best so far is .52, not minusing the .30 off. All touching.
Oh and I was in a rifle club with 1000 yd range. It's the only cartridge they used, but that's only because of costs and availability in a semi commy country like Australia.
Oh and one other .308 based cartridge not mentioned, that I am also developing and testing, the 375 Raptor! Can't understand why it hasn't taken off, given it shares so many reasons of a logical choice with it's baby brother. 375 Raptor: 400gr subs means 1000flb muzzle, supers are from 175gr to about 300gr. Like 308, plenty of pill choices, common powders. Impressive velocities even with shorter barrels. Bigger bore means quicker burn, minimal velocity gains after 20". My 12.5" barrel gets 2650fps from 175gr.
That would be a cool segment, do a dive into this cartridge and its capabilities and logic, especially vs the new kid that seems to be getting promoted, the 8.6 Blackout. What's with the ridiculous twist rate on them?
In 375 Raptor, 9T in theory (yet to fully test) stabilizes both. Yes 400gr MAKER brand subs.
Long range target shooting is fantastic with the .308. Standard load with a 168 SMK and IMR4064 with a Federal Primer is pushing 2650FPS and shoot .5 MOA. Very consistent out to the range that is available to me (600 yards). Not only that, but I have no issue at all finding components, because everyone is too busy buying up all the 6.5mm and 6mm projectiles and associated powders. I have an abundance of options available to me as a 30 cal shooter. Not only that, but I'm able to use that surplus of 168 grain projectiles in a variety of cartridges like 300WM, 300WSM and 30-06.
As a hand loader for lots of chambering’s.. .22 Hornet..( which I would enjoy a 10-ish minute talk on) through 45-70 Gvt. I love the .308 and it’s children.. I call them the OG short fat mag.. Ryan and I share the same respect for Barnes X. Pills but in the .243, 7-08 and 308.. they are phenomenal!! Both accuracy and performance out of the several rifles we have tested them in..
Awesome stuff Guys! Keep’em coming!
Hi guys, living in New Jersey and hunting for 60 years now mostly in Penn. and New York State, I used a savage 99 in 300 savage as a 10 year old and still do. Call me crazy but it’s killed everything I shot at. Have many rifles but I always take the 300 savage fo
Nobody has guns legally in NJ. They are outlawed.
I love the 308, the abundence of ammo means no one even bothers to pick up their brass so I hoover it all up to neck to 7mm-08.
My buddy learned quick 7mm08 needs to be handloaded once he saw the price of factory ammo. So he comes over to resupply a couple times a year
Excellent for shtf, deer hunting, elk, cougar, or even black bear. Great all around cartridge. We also like the 30-06, does everything listed above with a little more punch.
Mild recoil, accurate, good for most big game in North America, and during the ammunition shortage the past couple years, .308 was available more than most big game cartridges in my area.
I did some at 1050 over the weekend and use it to teach new shooters long range. It's a very forgiving and capable cartridge.
What grain did you reach out with that. Im going in PRS soon but have and done my angles with 155grn at the moment only thing I have 😬
Nice to see some love for the savage model 10!
I've got 7-8 hundred rounds through mine over the last 11 years and she shoots like an absolute champ! Only issue has been a weak ejector, and that was easily remedied.
Just re-zeroed at 50 yds after switching out the muzzle brake and was very comfortably sub-inch with cheap plinking ammo. Definitely need to stretch back to 200 once the weather starts cooperating again
No issues with accuracy after cleaning, but all I ever do is take a rag to the action and run a well worn snake down the bore twice before storing, just to avoid any corrosion issues
The M14 was intended to be the general rifle, but generals at the time wanted a full auto capable weapon to combat the Soviet 7.62x39 in the AK, but when the M14 turned out to be terribly uncontrollable in full auto, then came the M16 in the general purpose role.
Had the generals known that standard carbines would almost never be used in full auto the .308/7.62nato may have become the standard cartridge (albeit in a different weapon platform, likely the AR10 which Stoner designed before the 15)
The AR-15 might have become the special platform relegated to lightweight/rear echelon units
My very first gun I bought when I was 18 is the Remington 700 Police in 308. Will never get rid of it
I purchased a 6.5 Creedmoor and during 2020 and 2021 the ammo wasn't available locally but 308 was plentiful so the 308 was my next purchase , and will continue to be my go to from here out .
Any rifle that shoots the 308 is a keeper for many reasons. The main reason is that it can shoot M80 ball ammo. Milspec for 7.62 M80 NATO calls for inspection processes that insure the ammo to be absolutely reliable, storable for multiple decades, and accurate to 1 MOA, specifically 5" radii at 600 yards. (Belt fed ammo 7.5", but who's shooting the M14 or M60 fully automatic and measuring groups?)
Number two: When the SHTF, M80 ball ammo is what will be available for rifles. 6.5 Creedmore, 5.56 NATO, 7mm Remington Magnum (probably the best) and 30-06 will all dry up pretty fast when the gun grabbers shut down all the ammo stores.
Yup, when the SHTF you'll be able to trade a nice ham or hind quarter of venison to a cop or soldier for a few boxes of 7.62 M80, 12 gauge or 9mm because he'll have access to those rounds. Everything else? FUGEDDABOUDIT!
I’ve used 308 for many hunts in Quebec, black bear and many moose over the years. I like it a lot and have no trouble with follow up shots when needed.
.308 will probably always be the number one full power rifle cartridge for the foreseeable future because it’s fairly cheap, both reloading components and factory loaded ammo is both varied and available, and it’s very good at almost everything, even if it’s not the ideal for a specific task
Watching this episode locked in my choice for a .308 for my first centre fire! Was going a .243 but this just put all my doubts to bed! Here e we come T3X in .308 🥰
Great choice with the .308 win. Got my first buck with it and I’ve loved it ever since. The .243 win is a great choice too and much more capable then one would think!
Just setting up my T3x 308.
@@901pics epic mate! I’ve got mine half set. Cheek riser, tac bolt knob, pic rail, muzzle brake to go. Customer wrapping the stock in digital vinyl to. Can’t afford a chassis yet so it will suffice until then
Cartridges made using a 30-06 case was used by wildcatters with just about every bullet diameter. I know this is knit-picking, but it has. More than the 308. That said, the 308 is a fantastic cartridge. I load a 165gr Hornady BTSP Interlock at 2470fps for general purpose hunting now on my ranch. The longest I can shoot due to vegetation and terrain elevation variances, might be 130yds. White tails, Axis, wild hogs, it works. It also is not much recoil either. I call it my kid load, but as an old fart, I like it these days. Every nephew, my kids, neighbor's kids, friends kids, have taken game effectively at the ranch with this gun / scope / load combo. It is a Savage 110, basic rifle. It is accurate. I hit an accuracy node during load development I loved so wrote it down to do refinement later. At 100yds, even in old shaky hands, I can get .5". I developed that load to be a cold, clean bore 1 shot gun. The 308 is quite useful, mild mannered in recoil, uses proven bullets, and works. Not new, not sexy, just works.
What a legend!
Have my own .308 Howe 1500 26" heavy barrel, shoot it all the time all day and it is beaut!
I only clean the barrel with some RAM oil, and it never dissapoints weather on the range up to a 1000m or on the hunt everything bows a kniee in front of the muzzel all the way up to Cape Buffalo with a 180gr Sako Super Hammer Head.
The US military abandoned the 308 as a battle rifle cartridge because the M14 was an antiquated design and particularly bad under full auto which was something the Army wanted. The operating rod system and the open top action introduced a lot of weird stresses and made it flexy which hurt accuracy. The Air Force had already switched to the M16. Most of the other NATO countries kept their 7.62 battle rifles (either the FAL or G3) well into the 90s. Look at those rifles which were designed around the same time and the M14 looks old fashioned.
I've shot several calibers over the years but my first love was 308 for me its a great all around cartridge that has never let me down
The .308 was my first hunting rifle, but I had lots of practice with the 7.62 from military life. Took my 1st boar hog with it. LOVE IT!!!
The problem was that when the US Military transitioned to the M-14 / .308, they were also wanting a select fire weapon platform. The 7.62 NATO recoil was uncontrollable in automatic. When I went to USMC boot camp in the early 1970's we used M-14's in training, but were issued M-16's in the fleet.
Ditto! I was fortunate to wind up at an Amphibious command working along with SEALs and Marines, my favorite groups of military people. On one training evolution on San Clemente Island, we had 20 M-14’s and 50 full cases of 7.62x51 NATO to burn. I never ever thought I’d tire of shooting but, once those barrels started approaching a dull red we quit shooting. We feared rounds cooking off prematurely and the rifles were very uncomfortable to shoot. Wound up stacking leftover ammunition on top of 5 Claymore mines and lighting it off from a distance. The next morning there was still hot stuff going off. Our EOD guys had a dramatic flare and had tamped the whole pile down with full gasoline cans and old pallets. Quite a light show!
The design requirements for the rifle which became the M-14, presumably written by the Army Ordnance Dept. back in the 1950s, are a great example of pie-in-the-sky, what were those guys smoking/drinking (?) nonsense. Designing a good service rifle is hard-enough without some moron with too much rank deciding that it has to replace virtually every small-arm used by the typical Marine or Army soldier.
You have to wonder how much those people - that particular individual - knew about firearms in the first place. The M-14 was not only supposed to replace the BAR, but also the Thompson & M3 "Grease Gun" SMGs, the M-1/M-2 Carbine, and also the M-1 Garand itself.
I do not know if it is even possible from a design/engineering standpoint to replace cartridges and the weapons that fire them, so dissimilar as the .30 Carbine (a hot-rodded pistol cartridge) and the .45 ACP (a genuine pistol cartridge) on one hand and the long-action 30-06 used in the Garand, BAR and M1919 medium machine gun.
In a way, it is miraculous that the M-14 turned out as well as it did, considering that someone - maybe a committee of someones - at Ordnance, had a screw loose.
Re .300 Savage in comparison to .308 Win: That the Savage 99 chambering went, by choice, to .308 Win in place of Savage’s own .300 Savage says it all. The .308 Win is like Vanilla for those who forget that Vanilla is an exotic expensive spice which contributes to and subtly enhances a wide variety of flavors and recipes.
Ive read in articles past that the government was looking hard at the 300 Savage but Arthur Savage wanted big $ for his design. May or not be true, Winchester had always been in bed with the US government so the government asked Winchester to basically duplicate the Savage. They did…. You can still make 308 out of 300 savage brass I believe…. Or it vise versus? I cant remember.
@@curtmcelvain1749 yes I understand it was that Winchester was in bed with the army, but they also wanted the round to be straight walled so the magazines would be straight. So they crate up better for transfer and they won't confuse soldiers on the field of battle.
I had a custom built 308 (Saltzman Gun Works) specifically so that I could semi cheaply become a better shooter. I purposely built it to be light weigh with a CF barrel and stock and with the break on it I can shoot it quite a bit. It really loves the 175gr SMK, but also nicely groups 150gr soft points. I got it specifically for accuracy, hunting, training, end of the world, and tactical applications. It was the cartridge that is in abundance and has enough things around to load for that it fits all of the things.
If I wanted to shoot extra long range, 762/308 wouldn't be the choice. 762/308 is an all-rounder, that can protect Americans (maybe not in Alaska) from all predators and can take all game. It's the rifle to get when you can only have one, and it has an earned place in America's gun safe.
No animal even in Alaska can survive a .308 caliber hole in the lungs. Even the largest of bears the .308 will easily kill.
I love my browning BAR in 308 win. Very accurate out to 300 yards.
Still my favorite deer cartridge.
I'm picking up a Savage 110 in .308 soon! This definitely cemented that I am making a good choice.
I bought a Browning hells canyon speed several years ago in .308 after changing scopes several times I settled in on a Swarovski 2-10 and started hand loading for it , it's now my favorite rifle , my go to , every time !
There are a number of resources available for the switching g of 308 to 223 for military use, the short version seems to be that it was not the cartidge design but the weapon design that was the major factor. The m16 was a modern design intermediate cartidge that was light in weight ideal for varied environmental condition (jungles, especially). While the m14 was closely related to the M1 Garand, but not close enough to save on significant retooling costs to develope the M14. Which was originally sold to the war department as easily able to convert grand relievers to M14 relievers. Earlier attempts to add a box magazine and select fire capability to the m1 grand were unsuccessful, even with the help of John C. Grand, who came back from retirement to help with the project, even though me explained to the Army that it was not possible before he retired.
The cartidges were too much onthe 308 side for a select fire weapon for military use, and too light on the 223 side. The 308 was totally uncontrollable in full auto fire and the 223 was unable to Pentwater the jungle foliage in its original 55 grain bullet loading.
So the cartidges were the least considered.
Politics also played a part, col. Stadler at Springfield armory wanted the M14 to fight the Russians in Europe, long distance mechanized infantry applications. The M16, was given approval by General Curtis Lemay as a light rifle for the Ait Forces use to guard bases and planes. The M16 was flung into service by Secretary McNamara in the war in Vietnam, which had not been fully field tested by the Army for weaknesses in the rifle and ammunition combinations. The Army didn't want the 5.56 in the first place and resisted and honest appraisal of the rifle and ammunition, which resulted in unnecessary deaths in Vietnam. The rifle and ammunitionproblems have been sorted out as a result of failures after issuing to troops rather than forethought.
A long winded post to answer some of the history concerning these cartidges, which are good cartidges, but were the extremes on both ends for a general issue infantry weapon. It is my speculation the the 280 British devolved after WW2 would have better Met the needs for an infantry weapon.
Hope this helps.
Loved the podcast on the 308!
I gotta think "suppressive fire" is key in combat, and since 223 gets that job done at much lighter weight than 308, it allows soldiers to carry more ammo. Thereby expanding their capabilities to maneuver and sustain engagements.
Jack of all trades and master of none. That's why I love it and also why it's hated by the XXX is better crowd.
Gentleman, Once again you've stumbled across the truth about a cartridge that has been around for probably at least a generation before any of you were born. The 308 Winchester has been doing the job for all those years and will keep doing it far into the future.
The 300 Savage was developed to match the original 150 grain 30-06 loading used in the '03 Springfield rifle at about 2700 fps and it did. However for whatever reason, it didn't make the cut to replace the 30-06. In one of my favorite old reloading manuals, the Speer #6 from 1963, it was somewhat derided as not being a good cartridge for reloading because of its case characteristics; short, fat, short-necked with a sharp shoulder. The same characteristics that some today consider to be great. Commercial SAAMI specs for the 300 Savage were detuned because of fears that the older Savage model 99 rifles were not strong enough for the pressures generated by the military loadings. In reality there is very little practical difference between the 300 Savage and the 308 Winchester, especially when hand loaded for good bolt action rifles or the later Savage 99's.
In my mind, the biggest advantage of all the 30 calibers over the smaller bore diameters is that they make a bigger hole going in and a bigger hole coming out. The following is a comparison from the Speer #6 manual of 300 Savage, 308 Winchester and 30-06 using maximum charges of the same powder and the same primer behind the same 150 grain bullet. For the 300 Savage, using Remington cases in a Remington Model 722 with a 24 inch barrel, the yield was 2800 fps. For the 308 using Western cases in a 22 inch barreled Model 70 Winchester the result was 2812 fps, but it took two more grains of the same powder to generate that statistically insignificant 12 fps difference in velocity. For the 30-06 using TW-5 government cases with eight more grains of powder in a Springfield rifle the result was 2998 fps. Now Hornady has upped the game across the board for all of these cartridges, but from fastest to slowest without checking the charts, I doubt that there is 50 yards difference in maximum effective point blank range.
Regarding the 308, Speer said "Because it is short and has a strong head, it is better adapted to semi-automatic actions than the 30-06, but because of its limited powder capacity it can never equal the 30-06 ballistically". Regardless of this probably still correct assessment, I doubt that for hunting at any ethical shooting distance no deer or other game will notice the difference.
The military part of the equation evolved as a result of the changing of the guards, so to speak. Army Ordinance and Procurement had always had a complete "hands off" attitude about calibers and designs. When most of NATO adopted the FN FAL the US wanted it in 30-06. Europeans were adamantly opposed but ok with the 7.62x51 due to the similarity of all their previous 6 - 8 mm calibers and milder recoil. The M-14 lost the Ordinance trials to the T-48 (FAL) but the non traditional look freaked the Army traditionalists. A heavy rifle with teething problems, heavy ammo load, it triggered calls for another weapon. Enter Eugene Stoner and the M-16. The "Mattel toy rifle" was 3-4 pounds lighter and the cartridge developed by Remington used a flaked powder and burned cleanly enough that officials touted the weapons didn't need hardly any cleaning. President Kennedy's Secretary of Defense Robert McNamarra saw that 80,000 M16s and ammunition had been ordered for the new Air Force by Gen. Curtis LeMay and, simply put, wanted to streamline the weapons and ammo across the services. When mass production of the 5.56x45 began the plants changed the powders used which caused twice the fouling issues and the early poor reputation of the M16. The 7.62x51 while being used across the world in Cetme, H&K91, and FAL (called "the free world's right arm") rifles in heavy use, it was relegated to medium machine guns and DMR rifles in the USA. The .308 while similar, is different and one of the optimum hunting cartridges of all times, especially for the handloader with one of the widest selections of bullet weights, powders and application of any caliber.
Thank you for the history context!
I love the 308 for almost everything. I have done all distances of the Milk Jug Challenge with a Sako Long Range w/ 175 gr match burners. 1000,1200,1500 and 1 mile . I use the Barnes TTSX in 130,150 and ,168 .The 168 ABLR makes the Kimber MA a 1000 yard capable hunting 308 . You can combine rifle and bullet selection to accomplish just about every task . It is the standard by which almost everything else is measured, because it is so versatile and efficient .
Preaching to the choir on the 308. I've shot one for 10+ years and have taken coyote, whitetail, antelope, mule deer, and elk. It is not the best choice from probably anything but everything falls to it.
I hunt in northern Alabama with a .308 and a .300 win mag. As much as I love my win mag, my .308 has a 22 in barrel compared to my 26 in barrel on my win mag and the recoil is a lot more forgiving. All the deer I’ve downed have all been with the .308 and hopefully there will be many more.💪🏻
Why go past 18 inches?
308 is the round that got me into reloading. after almost 5 years I finally shot out my 308 barrel on my rifle and replaced it with a 7mm-08 and just necked down all the brass and kept going. I'm going to be doing the same when I shoot out my 6mm creed barrel, going to replace it with a 22creed barrel.
My plan exactly. Love the 7-08
The 7.62x51 / 308 was built to replace the 30-06 as both main battle rifle and general-purpose machine-gun in the US and throughout NATO countries in the form of the FN-FAL "the Right-Arm of the Free World" from 1953 to the present in over 60 countries. It was far from a Niche cartridge the was supplanted by the new .223 / 5.56x45 cartridge.
PS. You haven't lived until you fired a Remington model 81 in .300 savage. or the Winchester Model 100 in 308 they're a real hoot to shoot.
Never owned a gun safe that hasn’t had a 308 in it! Great cartridge!
Nothing against the 308, I just love the 3006. Over sixty years of experience with it, all exceptional !! 😀
My official cartridge discussion request is the .257 Roberts and as a subsequent discussion the 7x57 Mauser.
Deer, Elk, and Bear in Washington are like beer. They are the object you seek from the can. And even before the pull tab came out you could open that can with a can opener. My .308 is a can opener. Who cares how you get to the beer? Who cares how you take the bear? The .308 has and will work forever. It is the small block Chevy of the woods!
I have 2 .308's. One is a hunting rifle and the other one is a target rifle. I handload for both of them and they both shoot great
I have 3 .308 rifles. I bought them because I reload, bullets and ammo are relatively inexpensive and easy to find.
And the cartridge can do everything I need it to.
Love the 308. First cartridge I ever loaded for. Can't say enough good about it.
Cant wait to start loading. Saved up for a 7 turret loader now just need the rest of everything. Have a bunch of spent brass shot from my rifle ready to go
Gets all it's velocity in a short 22" barrel and it has a very good barrel life. Those are its strong points in my mind.
No need to go past 18 inch though
I love my 308, it gets the job done every time!!
🙌
When I was younger hunting with my Dad I never drank beer but a Pepsi to help wake me up in the morning always helped.
Who shoots game 500 to 1000 yards. To criticize a caliber for performance at that range is sad. Most game is shot under 200 yards. There are hunting calibers and target calibers. If you can only afford one gun, a 308 is a good choice.
Always been a 30-06 guy. Picked up a 308 just cause I wanted something different. It surprised me how much more comfortable it was to shoot and how many more accurate shots I could get off without getting fatigued. Not sacrifice much horsepower either. I’ll probably make a permanent switch lol.
Love my 308s! I love my 6.5s also but, currently, good luck finding relatively inexpensive 6.5 ammo. I've been able to find FGMM in 168, 175 and 185 on the shelves and loan applications and credit checks weren't required. It's plenty accurate but, at distance, you've really got to pay attention to the wind. Everyone thinks that's a bad thing but it forces one to improve their ability to accurately judge the wind conditions, which has made shooting the 6.5 CM much easier. When it comes to reloading, the road has been paved several times over so it's as easy as gathering the necessary equipment and components and you'll be shooting sub MOA easily.
Just pick up a Browning BLR in 308 today at Big Buck gun shop in wexford, PA. Got an A Bolt in 308 and a Winchester mod 70 feather wt in 308.
I’ve always loved the .308! I shoot a Browning lever action .308 and have killed deer and elk with no problem from 50 yds to 300yds! Great caliber!
Just finished building my daughter's 308 today. Tomorrow for the range 💪💪
The .308 just kills. It works really good. Of all the animals I have had to track while hunting and guiding very few were to the .308. I would say the 7mm Mag is the one cartridge that I have had to track more game from, and I believe its because its too much gun for a lots of shooters.
Great chat,… Canadian here that loves .308,.. like a bunch of us Canuck’s
Happy 308 day !
I am glad that i was able to pick up a 308 Remington 700 ADL about three years ago 24 inch barrel very accurate and i can find ammo for it i have been hunting with my 30-30 Marlin made by Marlin but finding ammo is hard right now and if you find it you get robbed the price of it is unreal.
I’ve used my ruger American predator many of times to shoot past 1,000yds. Love this caliber I also have a 6.5 but I’m more comfortable with my .308 for some reason.
Just returned from my first 308 hunt. Took a 6 point whitetail using Norma 140 grain boattail. One shot in the vitals dropprd this South Texas buck in about 20 feet from bullet impact.
Very impressive. First time with 308, usually use 30-06 with 180 gr. Accu-shock round. Next hunt, planning to use my 6.5 creedmore with 140 gr. Norma whitetail. Can't wait.
308 and 3006 hard to beat
I got into guns before I got into hunting. And because of that, I mostly use an AR-10 in .308Win for whitetails in central Kentucky.