Ep. 062 - The Venerable 308 Win
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 มี.ค. 2023
- On this episode, Seth is joined by Project Engineer, Miles Neville and Lead Ballistics Lab Technician, Matt George. This episode is being released March 8th - happy 308 day! The guys discuss the history of the 308 Winchester and how it's used today. Hornady has a host of 308 Win. offerings designed for numerous applications. We hope you enjoy the show!
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Great for hunting, good for long range. Cheap to reload. Love the 308.
I save my brass and I have several people telling me I'm wasting my time because they say you don't save any money , I don't believe that but what would you say? Thanks 😊
@@WhiteOak09 yes very true, you do save money reloading. Saves alot of money.
@Steve Melton that's what I thought , thanks alot. 😊
@@WhiteOak09 anytime, your welcome. And there is less taxes on reloading supply too. On new factory ammunition the taxes are very high because they put a wildlife tax on the new factory ammunition that goes to the fish and wildlife service. There is no wildlife taxes on reloading supply.
@@stevemelton4128 thank you very much for your help 🙏.
The 308 is making a comeback with younger shooters because of the hunting suppressed craze. The 308 performs well in short barrels with long suppressors. The ammo and component availability helps too.
My guess would be that the mighty 308 Winchester has taken more wild 🐗 pigs and goats 🐐 here in Australia over the past 40 or so years that any other cartridge. Just about every man and his dog owns a 308 Winchester chambered rifle Down Under. Great podcast fella’s 👍
Thanks for watching!
Same in southern africa
i thought they took your guns down there?
@@Sageofthe16 They took our semi automatic centerfire and rimfire rifles and pump action shotguns. Only those farmers who apply to use these firearms and pest controllers with a special license are allowed to own and use semi automatic rifles.
@Conservative Sniper Hunter so they took your guns. probably easier to get a machine gun legally in the USA....
The South African Bush war was actually perfect for the FN FAL in 308. Mostly longer distance shooting, and the kind of cover the bush and small towns afforded the enemy, could often be beaten by the .308. I learned from guys who served that war, that they usually carried no more than two extra magazines on patrol, so the weight was not such an issue.
That was a rifleman's culture, and they took a sight picture and touched one off when they could. Plus not the richest country in the world the idea of US levels of ammo wastage - 50,000 rounds per casualty was not on the books. There is nothing wrong with massive amounts of what one hopes is suppressive fire if you can afford it... Same thing in Canada, our implementation of an assault rifle based on the M-16 had 3 shot burst rather than full auto, and mostly gets used in semi. Optics later changed everything.
308 for hunting and prepping…
I'm old but I gotta say it is so nice to find 3 younger bullet geeks who sound like the oldtimers I used to read, who indeed shot at Camp Perry in 50's and 60's. Keep it up gents- you'll make fascinating old men!
Continually come back and listen to this one. Immediately followed by going home and loading 308
I've got M1A in 308/762X51. My son loaded some once fired brass as follows. 43.5 grains Winchester 748 and 150 grain Hornady fmjbt. When I did my job they would put 20 rounds inside a 2 1/5 inch circle. By the way I was 81 yrs old when I shot that group.
What distance sir?
You need to upgrade that M1A. Im getting 2 moa from Swiss M80 ball factory loaded ammo using my M1A standard. I get 1 MOA with Match ammo.
308 also fathered other fantastic cartridges, which shows its versatility but also its adaptability to change. It remains an effective round despite its offspring taking some of the spotlight.
I agree. 7mm 08 comes to mind. Awesome deer round.
I’m reading Marine Sniper about Carlos Hathcock and it states he used a model 70 chambered in 30-06 in Vietnam. Either way I love both 30-06 and .308 and great podcast.
300 win mag he also used
@@jeffthompson8551 I think the 300 win mag was just state side in competition. In Vietnam it was the 30-06 and the M2 50 cal.
Awesome, my fav book of all time. Read it almost 10x now
308 rifles were being used by scout snipers back then too though, Carlos used the 3006 which is Ballistically identical especially back then
My dad used the 308 back in the 50’s and 60’s in his pre64 which was a 308 and sorry but he was using Nosler bullets 🤔😳😂 since he worked with a friend at his mill who was getting them from John Nosler back when they were in Ashland and they were all he shot because of how they worked on elk for him! The 308 is a awesome caliber was my father proved over and over taking many elk with one shot year after year and about 4 elk per year since that was our meat for the whole year and being off 2 weeks a year because the mill was down for repairs! Kids were also off hunting with their dads a lot if the time from school! Sad but now days it’s all about how big the rack is not the meat and how far can I shoot at a game animal instead of hunting to within proper range for a shot! I my short 60+ years of hunting, reloading and collecting rifles the hunting industry has gone through a lot of change and mostly not good! But there is still a few good men out there who know what hunting is and supposed to be about and they are the true sportsman!
Is it hard to learn reloading, and would it be expencive to get all the gear needed for? I am a hunter, and don't need a ton of ammo. At minimum 35 round to get the big game license for each rifle. Then the hunting it self and some practice shooting. I do most of the practice with .22lr rimfire. And the hunting with .308Win and 12 gauge shot gun. Want a .17hmr for small to medium game, bigger than rabbits. Kind Regards from 🇳🇴
@To2 S reloading is not hard and can be done with a minimum of materials and components. Materials are powder, bullets, primers. Components are 2 dies ( sizing and bullet seating) and a reloading press. And a digital caliper for measuring fired cases. Hornady or lee used to make a hand press that didnt need to be bench mounted, and a priming tool for installing new primers
A few other components such as primer pocket cleaners, case trimming tools, tumblers, powder scale, etc. A quiet room to work as well with no distractions.
I couldn't have said it better myself!
All these new hunters with their trail cams won't ever learn how it's done like we did. They don't spend the time we did in the woods, henceforth, they don't have near as much experience.
@@to2s134 nobody cares
I've had most of the common 30 calibers, also the 7mm-08, 7mm Mag, and the 25-06, but hands down when I went to the .308 four years ago I haven't looked back. The newer cartridges out there are amazing in their own right, but I can't walk away from the .308.
So glad you did a 308 sho. I love 308 n 3006
2 of the best calibers that one can hunt big game with and still find ammo in most stores!
308 is just the everyman cartridge. It just works for the majority of people in the majority of hunting scenarios. We love to fantasize about being in the mountains and getting a 400+ yard shot at a stud animal, but most of the time shots are 250 and in for the vast majority of hunters and 308 is more than enough for everything outside of brown bears at that range. You’re better off spending your money on an inexpensive 308 and putting your time and money into a lot of practice than buying a ballistically superior cartridge in an expensive platform where you’re ammo is either 2x the price or finding reloading components becomes a part time job until you’re stocked up. Get a fancy flat shooting PRC WHEN you actually have that mountain hunt or Alaska trip booked. There’s no need for a rig that can take an elk at 550 when you’re only shooting whitetails at 150.
The .308 is a little more capable than your giving it credit for and I own a .300 and .375 rum. The .308 has elk energy at 300 yards and is enough for deer at 400 yards. Most of my shots are under 100 yards, I sometimes wonder why I bought the heavy magnums 😅 lol.
I will send one to 500 yds quick! I hit steel at 500 with no problem at all. I think the 800 plus is the outter limit
@jperry4561 I have my own range out to 500 yards with ar500 plate. Steel is one thing, critters are another. I have better options than the .308 win for longer shots on game. I have killed more game with 7mm rem mag than any other caliber I own, just because for the longest time it was the only caliber I owned. I have a love for all firearms no matter the caliber or capabilities. If someone says a certain caliber sucks I want that one too, I would have them all if I could.
308 is plenty for elk out to 500
You can always find 308 ammo when others are in short supply, it and 223 are the most common to find on the shelf, thats a big plus in my mind. I don't hunt that much anymore but when my SIL and I did some research for a new hunting rifle for him the 308 came to the top of the list, based on manufacturers chamberings and ammo availability.
That’s a big reason I picked the Ruger Precision in .308 when I was trying to decide. I reload and I can still find affordable components for .308 and also find affordable target .308 in pretty much any store I walk into. 6.5 CM and some of these new flavor of the month rounds are just too expensive/short in supply yet. And there are pages worth of load for .308 and comparatively few for 6.5 CM.
I agree about the longevity of the .308. Own a 300 PRC but not ready to give up my .308 just yet. Having the right tool for a job is best. Interesting podcast. Well done.
308 on 3/08 can’t be any better than that 😊
This was a good podcast. Like many, I’m a mid 50’s retired Army Infantryman (1983-2009) that used the 7.62, 173gr. round in the M-21 system and dove into the wide variances available for that cartridge. I use .308 in my M1A and FAL so I prefer to stay with one platform since I don’t do match shooting anymore. Thanks for taking time and effort to do this broadcast.
Help to 35whelen and 222 dack gun
Love the 308 Winchester. 308 is awesome.
And devastatingly effective.
The first "match" ammo for the 308 Winchester to my knowledge was assembled for the Pan-American games in about 1959. The shooters removed the 173 grain boat tail issue match ammo and replaced the bullet with the then new Sierra 168 grain BTHP and cleaned house with it. The ammo was called "Mexican Match".
5:48 Those sights were calibrated for engaging entire units of massed horse cavalry and direct fire artillery at those distances via volley fire. The 30 Gov. was spec was to be able to kill a horse at distance.
I like when podcasts go into the history of the public opinion and the cartridge’s competitors throughout the decades.
First center fire rifle was a .308. Remington 788. Still have it. Love my 6.5s but I will always have a .308 and load for it. Loved the A Max
308 is a great cartridge for deer , elk and black bear . Also a great coyote and wolf gun .
I plan on using mine for coyotes, deer and hogs... Is there any type of bullets that may be better on pelts than others? I know 308 might tear up pelts pretty good though lol
@@rykerinthewild1155 If you are pelt hunting, go with FMJ bullets. You have to plan your shots a bit more carefully but the bullet won't expand on game and tear the pelt up.
Awesome talk, thank you to the Hornady crew for this podcast, it is one of my favorite cartridges.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Yep, Hornady is my #1 manufacturer
AWESOME!! Thanks for the history lesson. Very informative. Another great podcast Seth !
Glad you enjoyed it!
308 still kicks butt in long range shooting in my country
It’s a long range cartridge
As much as I've come to appreciate the new rounds available, especially the 6.5 Creedmore, I don't think I'll ever change over from .308. Absolutely love everything about it.
I only have 1 regret about the 308; that I waited 30 years to finally fall in love with it!
Same here. It's a great round.
Never too late!
My father shot that cartridge from 1960 thru 2017. I never was a big fan but will always admit one of the finest cartridges ever made. It’s here as long as there is rifles, hunters, shooters, and ammo. My hats off to this fine cartridge I’ve never or cared to own. Thanks
You must be a contrarian.
I think any cartridge that has spawned a family of cartridges from its popularity and usefulness such as the 3006 2506 270win 35whelen and then 308 243 358 7mm 08 is proof that this cartridge will live on and will always have a place in the gun safe in any country in the world. Because it is a great cartridge.
Let's not forget the.338 Federal cartridge. A necked up.308.
308 spawned 30/06? Better do some research
That was an example of the 3006 family of cartridges compared to the 308 family of cartridges. I'm sorry if you couldn't figure this type of comparison out without me explaining every detail. I hope I've been crystal clear in this explanation for you to understand.
You forgot about the 280 Remington neck down o6 case
What most people need. Thanks for sharing.
Thanks for watching!
I love the 308. I wish i had one now. Love the lever action. I would take a bolt.
I use the same load he uses in a 308. Benchmark within 110 grain bullet. Lights out same hole at 100 yards on my bad day. It just works everytime.
I know he knows what he's talking about because I have same load, and it just works. Great video!!!
I'm liking the technical talking about it and it wasn't far off of what my Grandfather and great uncle's were talking about back in the day and I was started early learning and memorizing the ballistic and loading components at the age of twelve years ago. I can also guarantee that we didn't have any of the easy goodies that I call them back in the day. No automatic power dispenser and measuring devices. I have the 308 in two old Model 70's and the one is 40's manufacturing date and a late 50's one and they shoot like a dream and we used the IMR powders for decades and still do with great success.
I knew it man a couple decades ago in Texas that was a gunsmith and competition bench rest shooter. Because everyone was using.308, he opted for the 30.30. People thought that he was nuts, but he routinely won the matches. The.308 is so good that he wanted to challenge himself and prove the worth of the old lever action cartridge. I was stationed at Fort Hood, Texas, and Michael Turner lived between Killeen and Austin. He up and left, never to be heard from again. I searched for him when I returned from deployments, or overseas tours because he was the best gunsmith I ever knew, and had an amazing machine shop. Anyone ever heard of him, or knows where he settled?I would be interested to know.
I shot highpower service rifle back in the 1980's when the shift to 5.56 was just gaining momentum but I shot a lot of 7.62 through an M1A supermatch. I hunted with a .308 just because I had so much confidence in the round and familiarity with it. I still hunt with a .308 win Tikka bolt rifle because with all the choices in excellent quality bullets, it comes close to being a do everything rifle. Groundhogs and Coyotes up through elk.
Gunny Hathcok used the 30-06 for the vast majority of his career.
Thank you for your rational argument for THE .308 Winchester cartridge.
168 eld match with 43.5 grains of varget makes bugholes. Great podcast as always.
Cool, thanks
I shoot that exact load and it hammers.
I love how a few years ago, those who shot the 6.5cm were called hipsters. Now all the fuds and competition guys shoot 6.5cm and if you aren’t in the mainstream cool kids club and use 308 it’s “retro”, non conformist… and essentially hipster… reality is stranger than fiction.
Not really, but to each their own.
This cartridge has served me very well and between the 30-30 WCF, 30^06, 270Win, 25^06, 8mm, 303 British, 7.5×55, 300 Win Mag, and eventually the 308 is a great go to and around/through the back woods cartridge as I have needed to put meat on my old table for decades now.
I'm lucky enough to have a Savage model 12 in . 308 and an AR10 in. .308 both fun and accurate!
Awesome show men.
I have been using your components and upgraded my old Herter's equipment for decades now and I have had awesome success with your components and you make top quality stuff that I go up to my local supply store and buy every chance I can get something new that I don't have that you come out with. I was waiting for someone to say that you had to be able to shoot flawlessly and don't even think about recoil but it was incorporated into what you did and you didn't think or whine about it and just do it or there was no food on the table at certain parts of the year. Great evening to you all.
My AR10 308 shoots 3 inch groups at 500 yards!! Hornady Black some of the best ammo on the market.
Anything in a 30 caliber bullet is Great 👍👍👍👍
One cartridge to hunt damn near every big game animal, yet still cheap enough to spend a day at the range. It's tough to beat .308
Love my 7.62 NATO, more than enough range for me and great barrel life. Still easy to find and buy.
I bought a Savage model 12 Ft/r in 308, I bought 5 boxes of Hornady Match in 168g. I went to a 600 yard match and shot a 598 with 40 x's. Other than mounting a 5x25 scope and a Phoenix bipod the gun and the ammo were out of the box, into my rifle case, loaded and shot. Nice job Savage and nice job Hornady. Can't wait for my next match. I get it's still not cheap, but way cheaper than custom receivers, barrels, triggers, stocks and all the loading equipment I'd need to make quality match ammo.
Pretty sure the hornady book says 300 savage only about 150ft slower than 308
Great show so far I could stop by and listen to these all the time.
Thank you for watching!
Prc family now baby.
You guys killed it with these new cartridges
The PRC family and I'm looking hard at the 6mmARC. Amazing technology.
Been shooting 308 for 40 years, guess I’ll stick with it!!
I just bought my first .308 rifle, a Ruger American predator. I'm a convert 😂
Another info filled episode, thanks.
More to come!
308 Win is easily the most used cartridge in Finland for moose. Probably over 50% of moose are harvested with 308. 6.5 Creedmoor and 9.3x62 are becoming more and more popular though. Note that the shooting distances are very short.
9.3x62 getting very popular in U.S lately.
Those short shooting distances are called hunting by a true sportsman not long range target practice like a lot of the young generation today feels is ok! You should be proud that your country are true sportsman in general👏
@@MegaRiffraff I didn't know that. It's interesting that so old cartridge is gaining popularity. I have a 9.3 and I like to think it as 308, but bigger. You get similar velocities to 308 and don't need a long barrel. Bullet is just a bit bigger.
@@edwardabrams4972 The hunting methods and culture are very different. We can't really spot and stalk, because there is thick forest everywhere. Also there might be not so much game to be found. We use a lot of different dogs that either drive the game or stop and hold them by barking.
I thought they called them "Elk" over there? Specifically, "Eurasian Elk".
Changing your spring is a life/component saver
Great podcast, great discussion
I've always wanted a 30-06 but when I decided to buy I went with the 308 only because it didn't loosen your teeth near as bad and was a bit easier on the shoulder.
I shoot a Remington 700 light tactical 20” barrel, it’s a lil custom but the 168gr is THE cartridge for my gun. The Hornady Black shoots really well out of my bolt and gas guns !!
Nice!
LT-30 is awesome in .308 loads! I think a lot of the improvement came from the ball powders introduced at that same time frame.
I love the .308. I had an HK91 that I dressed the trigger to 4.5lbs and drove 3 #10 common nails with 5 rounds using the iron sights and offhand position at 100M. 12 to 15 kt cross winds. My "spotter" Greg Mason was a US army marksman using Mk1 eyeballs to adjust shots. Afterwards I was informed that that was impossible! To which I asked what part didn't you see? Walbergs "aim small miss small" was true. But I was shootin before he was born... Comms were crucial.
The .308 was the predominant benchrest cartridge until it was unseated by the .222 Remington
Best group I have shot in my life was a 5 shot one hole group at 100 yds with a 222 rem. I love that round.
Great discussion on one of my favorite Cartridges! I load lots of 308 and own 308 Bolt, Lever and AR rifles! I have a hard to find Browning BLR chambered in 308, that was made in the 60's! I load 110, 125, 150, 155, 168,178 and 180 grain loads for various uses.
Long live 308...
Still a 30 06 guy myself. Like having the more options over the 308. I do loading for 3 different 308s for family members and they do well out to 250. My oldest shot a wall hanger last year at 325yds and he did have a 100 or so blood trail. I'll stick 06
I'm a 308 guy it's not the greatest at anything, but it's capable of everything from close range varmints to long-distance enemy elimination. The only other cartridge I recommend is the 7mm08. If ammo is available, it would be my go-to.
I love the .308 and have more than one rifle in that caliber. And have hunted with it (no harvest, yet.) I came to liking that round precisely because of the military history of it. It is still used in training after 50 years. Marine Scout snipers had the M40 and the Army Rangers and SF groups had the M24, usually a Rem 700 action and in .308 for a few reasons, First, as mentioned, global availability. And a number of people used to say that if a rifle was chambered in 7.62 NATO, you could not fire .308 because .308 had higher pressure. That is, glad to see it cleared up here, a misconception. Any action and rifle is going to handle both. The 7.62 was loaded lower pressure and slightly thicker walls precisely to avoid problems of temperature and elevation extremes. You can be in the jungle in Vietnam or in the mountains of Afghanistan, going from 95 F with high humidity to a dry 30 F and you needed ammo that would travel and still be good.
Even today, SOCOM gave Barrett the contract for MRAD and it has .338 Norma Mag, .300 Norma Mag, and .308 Win. Then another version came out that had .338 Lapua Mag and .300 Win Mag, but still the .308 W.
The reason for .308 with the ammo used is that it could get some energy into a 200 pound target out to 600 yards with fairly low recoil. The downfall was the amount of drop and wind deflection. From what I have read from 3 different retired snipers, the engagements in combat were less than 600 yards, sometimes quite a bit less. In fact, the equally big part of sniper school is the sneak. Getting closer is better.
One of the authors I have read is retired Sgt Nicholas "The Reaper" Irving of the 3rd Ranger Battalion 75th Ranger Regiment. He carried in service a Knight Arms SR-25 (the Army's MK 11 Mod 0) in 7.62 NATO. He earned the nickname because he has had the highest number of confirmed kills in a deployment, 33. Many more than that. Confirmed means the target was verified with personal effects and information.
I figured, good enough for combat, then good enough for whitetail. Bucks where I live can get to 140 lbs.
Of course, now, I have been bitten by the 7 mm PRC bug and got me a rifle in that and it may become my favorite for both slamming energy and reach. I think of it as a 7 mm Rem Mag with more accuracy and ambition, pushing a heavy bullet. It could easily become my all-around rifle. But I will still hold onto my Windham Weaponry R16SFST-308 (AR-10, with M-LOK handguard) because it is accurate and great for some applications. But I really like bolt rifles.
I ABSOLUTLY****LOVE THE **LEVERLUTION 160 IN 3030 ***THE BEST 3030 AMMO ON THE PLANET**!!! THESE ARE BOAT TAIL BULLETS I PULLED ONE OUT OF THE CASE AND COMPARED IT TO THE WINCHESTER 150**FLAT BASE**AND THE HORMANDY IS A LOT BETTER**!!!**YOUR COMPANY DID A GREAT JOB ON THIS BULLET DESIGN**YOU SAVED THE LEVER GUNS**THANK YOU**IM GONNA START RELOADING MY 308 AND 3030 **ELD-X** AND** LEVERLUTION
My favorite cartridges 308win then the 300 win mag and last 338 lapua I tried 6.5 needsmoor but it couldn't do anything my trusty 308 couldn't
.308 was a favorite of mine firing the M60 in the USMC. Great round!
762x51 has probably made more empty brass than most other cart. combined great cartridge
The military has a few onther favctors to consider when developing a load. When the milirary switched the .30-06 to a Spitzer bullet, they downloaded it so they did not have to extend the ranges and impact zones in the traning areas.
Luv the "Jack of all trades" Yes, everyone should have a .308 Winchester. Hopefully, I'll use mine this year.
The Hornady #3045 bullet (165-gr BTSP Interlock) is an excellent performer. I have used it to take 14 deer. One of my buddies recommended it years ago and in my rifle it usually gives sub-MOA with reloads. Lots of good 30-caliber bullets available. I have used the Hornady 168-gr BTHP Match (#30501) and 165-gr SST (#30452) with excellent results, both also sub-MOA.
Hey guys, happy to see your videos about topics like this, got a question for you, I have been out of the game for over 30 years and just getting back into it, 30.06 has always been my favorite and would like to see you do a podcast similar to this 308 one but focus on 30.06 specifically in regards to long distance matches, thank you
I find with 168-grain match bullets along with 150-grain FMJ-BT, PSP and BTSP bullets H-4895 is a great powder that delivers incredibly consistent velocities with M-14's and bolt-action rifles too. Accuracy is excellent with this power and Hornady or Sierra 168-grain match bullets. I regard .308 as an excellent, efficient cartridge suited for combat, self-defense, target, competition, varmints and most game except big and dangerous animals. To me the recoil is mild and the cartridge is fun to shoot at the range.
4895 is the OG original.
I have 2 rifles chambered in .308 win, I'll be adding more in the future.
I have 2 .308's, 1 for hunting and 1 for target shooting. I handload for both and they both shoot great!
I love the .308 so much I have 3 bolt guns in the caliber. I use each for slightly different jobs. I have a Howa 1500 with a Sightmark Wraith 4K night vision scope for night hunting pigs and varmints. Second, I’ve got a Winchester model 70 featherweight with Vortex Viper 4-16 PST for long range hunting. And, I’ve got a Browing XBolt with a Leupold VX3 4-12 that is very light weight and I use for hunting when weight makes a difference. All three rifles are MOA or better guns. With my reloads the m70 and XBolt both are sub moa. Great cartridge the .308. It’s my all time favorite cartridge.
The New M7 from Sig is what we've been waiting on in the 308 realm
I still enjoy 308 just as much as 6.5 creedmore. Honestly I think I prefer it but that's just me. It's still my deer round and plinking cartridge as well.
The proof is in the pudding the 308 Winchester is one of the best all around carriages out there.
I was told the military wanted a shorter cartridge in .30 so it could have a higher rate of fire than the 3006 could provide with the BAR.
So they came up with the M-60 with a belt fed .308. And it worked. And they created the M1A to also use the same cartridge for simplicity and a faster rate of fire with the magazine feed.
Soldiers were taught to engage targets at maximum distance using full sized cartridges. But, human nature being what it is, all too often soldiers would wait until the enemy got to within “guaranteed hit range” before they engaged. After-action reports from both WWII and Korea reflected this. So the idea became, why issue and use big heavy full-sized cartridges if they won’t use them to their full potential. Thus, the change to a intermediate cartridge, 7.62x51. Can carry more ammo for the same weight load. Then the army became fixated on the remote wounding effects of small yawing bullets at high velocity. Thus, the 5.56. So the average infantry guy went from 8x8rd M-1 clips (64 rds) to 7x30rd 5.56 mags (210 rds). As far as the 7.62, it was discovered that they could shorten the 30-06 case by about 3/8” and use better powders to damn near duplicate the ballistics of the 30-06. Not much weight savings, but easier operation in machine gun feed systems to use short action size cartridges. Back to that human nature thing. For decades now, we only qualify out to 300 meters. But we still engage crew served at 1200 meter ranges.
Just added a couple boxes of 168Gr Black to the pile once I resight my Rem 700 Sps Tactical after a rescope. Hoping to make that pile...um..enough.
308 for life, it’s my do it all caliber..
TOPIC SUGGESTION: carbine length barrels. Ie 16-22in in length as well as ammo suggestions. Specifically for hunting and terminal effect.
Personally I use both a 16 and 20in 308 with 168g amax or eldm because they’re soft enough to open up at mild impact velocities, and a short 308 doesn’t push them so fast as to blow up when they impact up close.
The mild 308 with its heavy bullets, and wider bullet diameter for velocity generation, is a bit of sweet spot with short rifles. Yet another virtue not often mentioned with the 308.
Carbine length 16-20in barrels***
For years I was a fan of the 30-06, but now I am shifting to the .308 / 7.62 NATO mainly due to all the different loads available.
The Europeans were keen to move to intermediate cartridges after WW2. The Germans had designed the STG44, the Russians the AK and then the British were keen to move to the .280 in the EM2. It was the Americans who rail roaded nato down the .308 battle rifle path, only to bin the M14 in record time. Don’t get me wrong, I love my .308, and it was a good choice for the GPMG, but the writing was on the wall for full power cartridges for standard infantry rifles by the mid 40’s.
Good stuff.
Thanks for listening
Funny how we have standardized how we make war with each other. Rules of warfare have always seemed counter intuitive. Really like the podcasts.
Because modern warfare is for control not victory.
I bought a Remington 700 adl 308 three years ago and I'm glad I did finding Ammunition has been no problem and it's a good shooting rifle. But finding ammo for my 30-30 that's a problem.
The 30.06 was not made for the M1Garand, but vice versa. We had the Springfield bolt action rifles chambered in 30.06 in WWI. The parent cartridge for the 30.06 was 7.92 Mauser from Germany.
I read that about the Garand years ago, some high ranking people in the military insisted on the 30.06 because they had multiple warehouses completely full of ammunition and the equipment to make that ammunition.
When the 300 Savage was introduced in 1920 it matched the U.S. Military loading of 2750 fps with a 150 grain bullet. A lot of elk have been taken with the Model 99 Savage in 300 Savage. Not a hot rod but plenty good for whitetail, mule deer and even elk to 300 yards with good bullet placement which should always be the case.
The reason SAAMI detuned the 300 Savage was the mostly unfounded fear that it would be chambered in some old rifles like M93 Mauser which allegedly had weak or soft steel which is pretty much BS. The original 7x57 military loading in the Spanish M93 produced an average pressure of 50,370 copper units of pressure. That’s considerably above the SAAMI standard and I don’t remember ever reading about any M93’s blowing up from over pressure during the Spanish American War or any since. The SAAMI spec for the 300 Savage is exactly the same as for the 7x57 at 46,000 CUP. I know that CUP is not PSI as measured with a piezo transducer. Your viewers who don’t know the difference will need to look that up.
I have a Savage 99F in 300 Savage, custom ‘98 Mauser and Savage 99F both in 308 Winchester. Also 300 H&H and one of the Carl Gustaf M96 6.5x55’s Sporterized by Kimber, so I don’t need a 300 Win Mag or a 6.5 Creedmoor. I’m disappointed because it appears that Hornady is no longer producing the 300 Savage SuperFormance load as my 99 really liked that number. Actually except for a .243/6mm I’ve got all the bases covered as to bore diameter in various old farts’ (like me) cartridges. 250-3000, BOB, 338-06, 35 Whelen, 9.3x62, custom Siamese Mauser 45-70 in case the dinosaurs come back. With that all said if I could only have one it would be a 308 Winchester. I’m not planning on hunting any of the big bears or African dangerous game but for the things commonly hunted by the common man on the North American continent it will still do the job. Not quite equal to 30-06 but close with less recoil. Quality ammunition available everywhere at reasonable prices. Easily reloadable makes it even more versatile. Proven track record. Not made for sniping at live animals at ridiculous ranges. Happy hunting boys and girls!😊
Funny how youth changes things or more correctly aging. I used an M1 Garand in the Navy between 1965 and 69 and never noticed the recoil and in fact found it very accurate for shooting from my shoulder. Now a few years ago I was offered a chance to shoot another one and was surprised at the recoil. I do love my 308, it barks loudly but the recoil is manageable shooting 140 Grain ammo and even at 78YO I can manage 1 MOA from the bench with a scope.
My favorite is the 308. Kinda wish we could neck up sig 6.8x51 hybrid brass to 308 and run the higher pressure
What is stopping you?
I wonder about the pressure ratings of general bolt guns. Can they withstand the extra pressure? Compounded by the extra weight of the bullet? Say, a 180 grain bullet? Or a 190 ablr?
Probably better to just get a 30-06, lol.
@grumpybill well the 80k pressure rating exceeds most normal barrel materials. The sig cross uses some kind of proprietary alloy for its barrel.
A lot of the beginning of the shooting learning curve was on old Military rifle sales that you could have went to the G.C. Murphy's, Woolworth's, Montgomery Ward's, and America's first buy it all super stores "The Sears and Roebuck and Co." stores had the best ones in Military Bolt action rifles for sale. You used to be able to drive in town and get a new used military rifle out of a barrel or 55 gallon drum with rifles arranged with the majority of any military surplus in them and shelves of ammunition to match the rifles of your choice for the amazing price of 25-50 dollars depending on condition and manufacturer of said rifles. You could get some really nice rifles with a little due diligence and looking them over carefully and closely for condition. I have many my Grandfather and Uncles have gotten or helped me get over the years. I remember when we would go with the family and the uncle's family and friends to get what they have new for sale from the new batches of imports ot local armory dumping of them because of the closing of a old American institution of safety and the ability to get the community armed and have a great place to get exercise and know and meet the community people who you might have had to spend a few days with in the Bomb shelters in and around the time of when you could have said hello to a stranger and not having to worry about getting snubbed or not being able to have a intelligent conversation about just about everything. None of the staring and having to worry about being a bad one sided conversation, andy favorite song and dance, No phone for Internet to hide or disappearing act into your phone bubble,😅😂🤣😉
1998 drum of Mosins for $89 each.
I would like to see a video like this on the 7mm-08 Remington cartridge, the .284 Winchester cartridge, and the .280 Remington and Ackley Improved cartridges !!
ALL THE 7MM ARE REALLY GOOD
Sooo….up in Canada here, why can I not find Precision Hunter in 308 for last 2 yrs? My Savage Stealth Evolution loves it out to 800m. Nothing groups better in that rifle over any brand.
I still have a pre 64. Low 2k serials number Winchester model 100 in 308.
I actually only have 75 dollars in the gun . Minus the 600 dollar scope and mount n rings. It's not a tack driver but its good enough for hunting at 100 yards.