308 Winchester, Workhorse of The Shooting World
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 ธ.ค. 2022
- It's time to talk about the 308 Winchester and why it's just such an outstanding cartridge. We also need to discuss its future.
Chuck Hawks Cartridge Killing Power: www.chuckhawks.com/rifle_kill... - แนวปฏิบัติและการใช้ชีวิต
My favorite caliber for deer hunting, and I can find the ammo everywhere even during the shortage and it gets the job done every time.
Why is it your favorite caliber for deer hunting?
@@carlosgaztelucabral8061 for the reason I listed in my comment, I'll add to the great accuracy also
Cartridge. There are a lot of the same caliber "cartridges". He reloads, so like all reloaders, you hear him saying cartridge.
Really good for moose and elk to. 300 yards out
308 Winchester is not going anywhere she has deep roots like a strong oak tree she is here to stay already stood the test of time
The .308 has proven itself to be a fine cartridge. Like the 30-06 and 7x57 before it I believe it will remain very popular because it's available, an extremely accurate, and power cartridge. Most cartridges chosen by military's as a service round tend to be around for a long time. It is a workhorse. If you like .30 caliber bullets the .308 can easily become a one rifle for everything.
A short hard hitting round with almost no recoil especially in semi autos will remain for centuries. Truly one of the greatest!
308 is my favorite cartridge. Take anything up to elk. I use 165 gr for everything.
My grandmother bought me a Post 64 model 70 308 in 1975.With it I have shot just about everything from a steenbuck to an eland in the past 48 years, all with the open sights. Never let down yet.
Great rifle in a great cartridge!
I switched to 308 win about 6 years ago it has never let me down.
Always shoot what is stamped on the barrel.
308 is like a good faithful wife of many years, you'll see new fancier versions in your life but a wise man stays loyal
Like a good wife, sometimes she will really get on your nerves, though, especially with the 180 grain that she does not like and that she will throw all over the place in hanger...
@@jeanmorin3247 reckon?
The .308 isn't going anywhere. The 6.5CR (which isn't going anywhere either) will go away before the .308.
True, but that's mostly a logistics and caliber saturation issue. .308 had a 55 year head start, plus it is the basis for the 7.62x51 military cartridge loading.
Yup the only reason 6.5 Creedmoor will stay is you can make its brass from 308 brass and the made alot of ar10 uppers in it.
Finally you got around to my round. The reason I liked the .308 Win (primarily for deer hunting) is from reading and understanding that the US military used it for training and sniper duties. In the 60s, Marine Scout Snipers were trained with the M40 (Remington 700 short action) in 7.62 X 15 mm NATO. the 175 grain would knock down a 200 pound target out to 60 yards. Most tactical engagements on deployment were less than 600 yards. I get that info from a few Rangers who have written about it and also, Charlie Melton, retired Navy SEAL sniper who operates a training facility near Normangee, Texas.
Believe it or not, the round still has value to the military. Both versions of the MRAD include a barrel for .308 Win. One kit has .308 Win, .300 Norma, and .300 Norma Mag. The other kit has .308 Win, .300 Win Mag, .338 Lapua Mag. But from the Barrett site, you can get more variation.
People say that .308 is fickle in the wind. I say that you could get more consistency if you hand load and you make sure all of your powder weight is consistent.
Looking forward to this. I am a 30-06 / 7mm08 / 243 fan.
Kinda wanting a 308 in the group.
I’ve been hunting for a very long time and have owned many calibers and recently bought my first 308. I look forward to the project.
Like the 308, Have shot it for 50 years. Went to the 7-08 several years ago . and now i have a new love.
They're both great cartridges and close enough in performance that it really just comes down to the rifle. And for me I've hunted with the 7x57, 303 British, and 308 for many years and wouldn't think twice about taking any of them into the field.
I think I can listen to this guy all day. Great Content, but even better delivery.
Nice video Tom. I really liked the segment about the killing power. It would be cool if you made a whole video on it and even brought up some numbers/data.
I agree!
Thanks for the video. This is what I am interested in lately. As a builder, mechanic, and jeweler, working on firearms is very satisfying. Looking forward to the videos, as the project progresses.
Very good practical caliber. I have gone all in for the 308 lately. One of my son's also has for 4 years now. He loves his Ruger MK II at the range and wants to get a hunting 308 rifle next. It's an economical round that is a pleasure to shoot. Right now you can get Norma whitetail in 308 for less than 20$ a box. That is a great price these days and you can get free shipping if you order enough. I think it's a great deer round and has been used for large game also. I would use it for elk under 400yds. Thank you for another great video. I enjoy your practical common sense.
Thanks Mr. River, God bless you and yours...
I love the 308 Winchester!
Tom I couldn’t agree with you more. I love and use my 6.5 creedmoor for whitetail deer. If I was hunting black bear or elk I would choose the 308 every time! I agree with you that frontal area on a bullet matters a lot when it comes to killing power. When it comes to explaining things and plain old common sense I think your channel is the best! Thanks for all you do Tom👍🏻
I like both the 6.5 and 308. 6.5 is like a 308 Lite lol. Both are good hunting rounds for their sizes, given correct bullet selection.
Exactly. The glorified target bullets have just about the terminal ballistics you would expect.
The Federal Power Shok 140 kills deer in the 6.5x55 just fine. I doubt 100 fps faster out of a 6.5 CM would make it less effective.
Another project? You are an ambitious man.
Dang, I bet it will turn out to be a real bell ringer, and I am already excited to see the groups!
Merry Christmas Good Sir!
I got a 7mm-08 and my buddy got a 6.5 creedmoor, seems to me that the deer drop faster with the 7mm-08, never been impressed with the creed at real deer hunting ranges, also have the 308 which is the most accurate rifles I've ever owned .
HEAR! HEAR!!
I’ve shot 8 deer with my 6.5 creedmoor! Every deer but 1 dropped on the spot! It went 20 yards and there was blood everywhere! I have a 308 to and see no difference in the deer shot under 100 yards! Sorry! lol 😂
What is "real deer hunting range?" 😂 Where I live, the average is about 75 yards. My cousin's son whacks em consistently with a Ruger 44 Carbine.
The more I have hunted and shot the 308 the more I love it. I have handloaded and hunted with several different calibers through the years. I have found that a Winchester model 70 featherweight (FN) and Remington 150 gr corelock ammo is the prefect combo for deer for me. The rifle is a tack driver with the factory ammo and light recoil allows me to put the round where I need to. I'm hunting in the mountains of western NC and most shots or 200 yards or less. I have found this combo to very lethal on whitetails.
I enjoy your videos.
Prefect timing, Tom! I just picked up a bicentennial m77 30-06. I still need to see if it's a shooter or not, but I'm looking forward to seeing this project.
good video. 300 savage was made from the 250 savage. so one could argue it all started back in 1915
Great video Mr Tom the 308 win has been a favorite of mine for a long time you are right it's Christmas if there is anything I can help with on that project let me know I've got a good selection of bullets and powder for the 308
Tom...I think it was 1963...I purchased a Savage Model 99 F (Featherweight) in .308. That rifle took my first Whitetail in 1965...It became my regular whitetail rife for years...I got maybe Five bucks with it. Of all the rifles I owned it was my ONLY 308! It was a beautiful gun...It was one of the first 99's that had the comb safety. It had a steel butt plate...it was LIGHT! Frankly it was probably the rifle that had "One hell of a kick!" I bought it from "Parker Bros. Catalog" for $103 ...they were out of New York State. I consigned it along with several of my hunting rifles about 15 years ago. David ...Excellent Job! :)
I'm beginning a.308 project that takes me in a different direction than most people would consider going. I started reloading last year and over the summer purchased a Ruger American predator .308 with a 18 inch barrel to use as a brush gun with a 1.25x4.5x26 scope. I've bought bullets in 150 and 180 gr round nose and 150 and 170 gr flat nose. I have several powders to work with Varget, CFE 223, H380, IMR 4046, and IMR 3031. I'm fire forming my brass now and trying to decide what loads I want to try first. It's more of an experiment that will give me a chance to reload and test something a little different than everyone else is doing.
To me the 308 is really the first 308 round to be considered "inherently accurate". Some guys say there is no such thing as an inherently accurate cartridge, I say tell that to the bench rest shooters. They moved on from the also inherently accurate 222 Remington a long time ago for a cartridge that is even more inherently accurate and never looked back. The 308 is also wonderfully efficient and versatile. I currently have 2 of them. In this time of overpriced and hard to find reloading components, I would much rather have to pay for the powder it takes to load several hundred 308 cartridges than 300 Magnums. The 308 is great round, battle and time tested and has proven itself not only on the battlefield, but on the hunting grounds and as a long range sniper rifle. Anyone would be hard pressed to come up with another single cartridge that is equally as effective and proven in so many ways.
The 30-06 would be a good candidate.
Looking to purchase one right now then I read this article now I'm really fired up to get one and I will. !!!
One could hunt a wide variety of game with a pair of Winchester Model 70 Featherweights chambered in .308 and .243 Winchester. I opted for a single Model 70 chambered in the middle stepchild, 7mm-08 Remington, and have no regrets. To me, the 7mm-08 Remington is the older generation's 6.5mm Creedmoor: Both are outstanding intermediate cartridges. Great video, Tom!
Good luck with that MarkII. After you free float and bed it don’t forget that the torque specs are really high for the front action screw due to the small cast and angled recoil lug.
I think a 6.5 creedmoor is a deer and below cartridge. The 308 would definitely be more versatile if you also hunt bear or elk.
Not to mention moose, caribou, walrus and big bears. The Inuit have no issue using them on really big creatures.
308 since 1955 I think, hard to beat, been using one for 25 years. Just picked up a model 88 Winchester, made in 1961, nice rifle.
Good one Tom!!!!
Great video!
Had a couple, both Savages. Gave both away. Nothing really wrong with them. .308 was my first bolt action centerfire--110 pre-accutrigger in a wood stock, with free scope and case as a package deal. Marlin 336 in .30-30 was my lever. Had I known how easy it was to install a Timney trigger and replace barrels on the Savages, I may have kept at least one. LIVE AND LEARN.
Such great "practical" knowledge and context (from overbore to national debt :)). Thank you.
My son hunts with a 308. My daughter got her first buck at age 12 this year with her 308. I use 308 for hunting too. It's a great round and more available than almost all other ammunition...
I never had anything to do with the 308 cartridge I’ve herd that it was inherently accurate but as fate would have it I always seemed to find and get 30-06 rifles which is just fine with me good luck on getting the load’s worked out and making it shot good
I think the 308 is a caliber every rifleman needs to include in his/her collection. I have one made by Weatherby and it shoots great. Ammo is readily available for it too, which is a huge advantage. Effective, available, inexpensive..... all winners. MH
Great video.
It took me a month of tweaking loads and rifle in order to get my 308 Winchester to hit and hold 1,000 yards. I was able to hit and hold 1,000 yards out of the box with 6.5 CM. However, the 308 taught me what it’s takes to hit 1,000 yards in a way 6.5 probably couldn’t have. My advice to anyone wanting to enter the 1,000 yard game, I recommend the 308 because it is such a great teacher. Today, I prefer the 6.5 PRC for targets and 243 win for whitetails. But, my 308 always goes to the range.
Probably good advice. I’d take it a step further and suggest starting with a 223 or even 22. Much less range space needed to get the same effects as bigger rounds at 1000 yards.
@@phild9813 1000 yards is a stretch for an off-the -rack 223. Anything is possible for a skilled gunsmith. However, practice with a 22LR out to 300 yards is a great way to master the basics.
great video.
Tom I would be very interested in hearing you talk more on killing power and frontal bullet mass. You got my curiosity up lol 😂
Looking forward to listening to what. You have to say about 308
308 is so boring and that’s why I love it! It does everything pretty darn good. I own 3 rifles chambered in 308 and I’ll confess I’m still shopping for another 308 haha.
Nice discussion - thanks. Following from Kali.
I was gifted a browning blr in 7mm 08. Old guy shot one elk with it in 81 and never used it again. Beutiful rifle, still has the old redfield "tv screen" scope! It is a joy to shoot but it has no place in the florida woods. I use it at our clubs hunt rifle competitions. Every time i take it out someone trys to buy it. Not for sale boys.
Love the 7mm08. Awesome hunting cartridge. Its a shame more rifles are not available in that.
@@todsimpkins8908 i was thinking an ar 10. There are barrels available from bear creek. I have not checked to see what the optimal lengt4 is yet. 20" is doable.
Try putting a lower magnification scope on it, maybe a 1.75×6 power with a heavy duplex or post reticle. That works well in the woods and the 7mm08 is deer medicine
@@kenneth9874 too pretty for the swamp! Lol! I drug a marlin 336 in 35 rem around for decades. She shows it. I started using an ar in 6.5 grendel. Super light, stupid accurate and still drops pigs like a rock.
@@robertdinicola9225 I understand, I've got a synthetic stainless mo.7 in. 308 that I use for my walk around gun with the scope that I described and it's never let me down. Good luck this season.
Out of all the rifles and associated cartridges I've used, 175gr SMK Federal Gold Medal Match 308Win out of a Sako TRG is my most accurate combination.
Ive always liked a 7mm . Over a 30. Let the booing begin lol
The military should try the 7mm08
708 an 7remMag hard to beat.
Good job
A very good cartridge. Plenty of punch and accurate.
Perhaps with development in projectiles it will be a quick fix. In a previous video you asked are opinions on future projects. Did you see and or given and thoughts to my suggestions on the boss system for browning and winchester rifles?
I'd love to hear you talk about killing power in the most popular cartridges and how it matters when choosing a caliber to hunt with
Sask Dad, that's a topic that I need to get back to because it's something that I think could help a lot of hunters?
I only have a 12br shot gun, .22LR and 308Win. It really gets the job done, just know what the limits are and stay with in those limits.
And we still use the 7.62X51 in the Army today.
Thank you sir
Glad you enjoyed it Charles.
First step: take the Hubble telescope off that thing.
🤣😂👍
@@darrelljones3382 😂
As far as Arthur, I still want to read the book. However, it sounds to me he was “dissed by we know who”.
I think the .308 Winchester is here for a bit longer. With the way things are going, it will be anybodys guess I suppose.
I mean, how many rifles chambered in .308 Win. are the in the world?
Interesting and thought provoking no doubt.
308 is still the most popular big game loading. 3006 is still #5 I listed top 6 sales calibers below.
I have a m77 in 30/06. It’s a bicentennial model in perfect condition. I had one years ago and regrettably sold it. When my buddy text me and told me they had taken one in at the gun shop, I jumped all over it.
WOW, why don't people talk about the KP formula more, I've been looking for a conclusive means of selecting a hunting caliber : )
Already ordered a 308 Weatherby, cant wait
The 300 Savage is the granddaddy, of the 308, the 308 will be around as long as 30-06 will be. Hunting does not require shooting extream distances for the average hunter or target shooter. 🙂
6.5 may be popular, but there is a fraction of the ammo selection compared to 308 at the stores
I like my .308 compact . Hard to beat all around big game rifle in the woods.
That seems like a super big scope for that rifle
My grandfather hunted with one said it was an old man’s cartridge he hit where he aimed for us other gut shooting hunters were better served with the 270 winchester
I have always thought the .308 was one great cartridge. Qualified "EXPERT" with my M14 at Camp Pendleton in March '66. Platoon 203. Fun times for sure lol. Looking to trade my recently purchased JC Higgins Model 51 for a wood stocked 308.
Good video as always sir.
I highly doubt we'll ever see this "Fury" in the commercial market.
80-100kpsi?
When the .308 AR-10 is widely available, and inexpensive?
Although the military has accepted the rifles and the round, I also doubt it'll be widely used much.
Like the .270 Winchester, there are slight improvements in the competitors.
But, not orders of magnitude better.
The .308 and the 5.56 NATO will be around for a very, very long time.
They are simply sweet-spot rounds.
308 used to be my standard.
Now I have dropped down to 6.5 Grendel and up to 300Win.
I can do almost everything I need with 6.5, with low recoil and great suppression.
If I need bigger, 300Win is better medicine.
Now that was good, and you are correct, size matters, I personally look at the 6.5 as a fad, good for targets bad for hunting. And yes, I know folks hunt with smaller cartridges all the time. But for me at ethical distances, the .308 is as small as I'm going to go. IF I was going to try to go smaller, into the 6.5 range, well it would be the 6.5x55 which has some history. Loved the video, God Bless
For me as long as I’m east of the Mississippi the .308 is all I need. Out West is a different ballgame. I’ve tried different calibers at one time or another and they all work for me but I always seem to circle back to the .308.
The .308 is a great round for deer out west. So is the 7mm-08, 30-30 win., 30-06 Springfield, .270 win and so many others as well. For elk so long as the person is willing to make concessions to the limitations of the round selected then calibers such as the 7mm-08 and .308 are suitable on elk.
@@trapdoorspringfieldmodel1888 well I went to Colorado in 2020 to hunt 1st rifle season for elk. Took my Remington 700 Mtn rifle, 30.06. 180 grain Nosler and the rifle was shooting good. I figured that was good enough. To be honest I had never seen such open spaces in my life. The only limitation was how far you could see. I figured 300/350 yards was my limit. My bullet drop would be up there after that. The man I was hunting with was using .300 win mag. The first day he shot a 6x6 bull from on top of a ridge. Downhill maybe 30 degrees, over 400 yards. I don’t even know how you figure the bullet drop on that kind of shot. We ate back straps that night. I want to go back but I’m gonna have to settle for a Mullie. I bought 25.06 I’m gonna use for that. It shoots flat, lot flatter than my other rifles. Not much cover in Colorado, not the parts I’ve been in so I’m hoping it works out. Back home in Georgia my .308’s are all I need. Plenty of power, easy to tote, and plentiful ammo when I need some.
The .300 Savage was almost perfect for deer and black bear in the eastern forests. It gave a good boost over the usual 30/30. When the .308 came out the death of the .300 was on the horizon. and I think the last nail in the coffin was when Savage started chambering the model 99 in .308 Winchester. There simply was no reason for the .300 savage any more. PS. try to find .300 savage at your local gun store today.
A good. Evaluation. Of the. 308. Hard. To disagree. It’s a brilliant. Cartridge. It even looks. Good. It’s proven.
It is simple practical and gets the job done. Wyoming guy
I have my Winchester supergrade-- 308-- it is all i will ever need in his life. Wyoming guy
Nice!
Does the scope contact the barrel ??
Does service life include .30-03?
Hard to call the 300 savage the parent case when the 308 can’t be formed from it. I know it’s listed places as the parent, might be for the T65 but not the final version.. unless they had a case stretcher. They shortened the 30’06 and thinned the walls
.300 Savage opened the .308 dance 30 years before .308 got around to being. The numbers made by both the old .300 Savage and it's offspring .308, both fall into the darned useful utilitarian bracket. A hunting cartridge that's rarely ever too big for deer size game while being at least adequate for elk size game if needed. Practical with a capital P. I am learning that practical and virtuous isn't always instantly evidenced by looking at ballistic charts. I wish I had bought me a .308 years ago. Killing power is amazing equal between many cartridges in a large group. Especially if the target is sub 200 lb deer like most of us hunters pursue....
I'm totally with you on the 308 for myself but for the military I think the 7.62 NATO is pretty much dead. I'm with you on the 277 fury I'm not convinced at all that that's the right way to go. Looking at the current cartridges that are available today I think the best option for the military for a lightweight small cartridge to go in a lightweight rifle but offer more energy and range than the 5.56 I think the best option is the 6 mm ARC it offers substantially better ballistics than the 5.56 but it's in the same platform. All they'd have to do is rebarrel . But for myself for hunting target shooting long barrel life 308 will do just about anything that I could possibly think of doing. Thank you tell me what you think about the 6mm Arc?
Naw 556 I'd fine and so is 308 I don't think the military will switch like they say they are. The new calibers are cool and all but 556 and 308 can do pretty much anything you'd want
I hunt with .308 and 30-06 and actually prefer the Sako S20 in .308
Recoil is not a factor, I simply like the .308 best whether it is for foxes or larger animals, with the right bullet..right into the ground if I do the job right.
Was the scope touching the barrel?
I have an AR308 in 6.5 Creedmoor I'm thinking about changing to 308W 24” nothing is wrong with the 6.5 CM barrel just want another 308W added to my collection from two to three rifles.
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I love 308 I've had people tell me about experiences they have had when they shot deer that it didn't kill but I think that was more there shot placement and bullets they were using rather than effectiveness of the 308.. 45-70 & 308 are the 2 highest power rifles I own and I don't feel the need to have anything more powerful because there both plenty effective.. if a 7.62×39 is effective you know a 308 is I think its all about shot placement because I killed a deer when I was a kid with a 22 lr and it dropped dead in it's tracks and started kicking then I walked down on it and put another 22 in it to make sure it was dead
I have scope eye from a .30-06 I recently purchased. Wish I had gone for the.308 instead, maybe even 6.5 Creedmore!
The 7mm08 might be a good choice for you
Maybe you should have gone with a decent scope that has adequate eye relief.
Tom, would you talk about the hunting advantage of having a 180 grains bullet for the .308 over lighter bullets. My rifle shoots better with the lighter bullet (150 grains), but can the advantage of a larger bullet, in some circumstances, outweigh (yep!) the disadvantage of a 3-inch group at 100?
controlled expansion ballistic tip boattails put the 3006 and 308 on par or better than any hunting round and they flat out work with very long barrel life, ammo availability and selection. They are surviving because they are perfection.
.308 is also a very forgiving caliber with all kinds of different loads and bullet weights.
The 308 Win is one of my favorite cartridges and the only reason I'm not in the market for one right now is because I have a great shooting 30-06 that I can load down to 308 velocity if I want to.
WDM Bell was well past his elephant sniping days when the 308 Winchester came out. He said if he was still shooting elephants for their ivory he would use the 308 with a 240 grain full metal jacket at a sedate 2300 fps. For deep penetration into elephants skull and brain.
308 very good for reloading … many powders and many bullets and even brass is available only thing I can’t get is primers
Nachez had Federal Large Rifle primers today! I don't know if they've sold out yet or not? And they've had a good selection of pistol and small rifle primers for a couple of weeks so I figured the large rifle primers were about to start showing up.
@@TomRiverSimpleLiving thanks for the tip… I always forget to check Natchez
The 6.5cm ELDx line was the biggest let down for terminal performance.
I not a betting man. But if I was I would bet the 308 was still popular 50 years from now!
"Cheap" training ammo is the key. Better a middle of the road cartridge you shoot alot, than an even better you don't shoot much
The 308 will never go away totally as long as I have ammo for my savage scout rifle…..tack driver at 250 yards
308, 7.62 X 51 are by far the best and most reliable all around ammo. Next is 30-06 and 5.56 everything else is just cosmetic shooting...
Nothing wrong with a 308, even though my favorite rifle is an older, full camouflaged Remington 7mmO8 that I got from my dear departed friend. By the way, I reload.
64samsky, for me 7x57 (hand loaded), 7mm08, and 308 are all so close to each other that I've always had a tough time deciding which one I thought was the best deer cartridge? But I wouldn't hesitate to use or recommend any of them.
@@TomRiverSimpleLiving I agree Tom, Merry Christmas!