I wonder if Godwyn was the only child that Marika gave birth to before being cursed, and that is why his death drove her to the brink. He IS the Golden Child. The perfect child of a god. She was no longer able to produce a child unmarked by the Omen Curse, leaving him to be the only one she would ever have untainted. And they killed him.
Last Protagonist has a video about that. In the original Japanese, the word that is otherwise used for the beings known as the Omens is not used in the Hornsent Grandam's dialogue. In any case, Commander Gaius knew Radahn, which indicates that Messmer's crusade took place at the very least AFTER the Second Liurnian War, meaning Morgott had probably been born before Messmer set the land ablaze.
Or maybe Godwyns deformity was just easier to hide. The crucible is a mixture of all animals including flys, birds, and horned creatures, Godwyns body is fishlike where his legs should be. Maybe he’s like naymor and aquaman
Nah i think Godwyn being like a nightmare merman is cuz of that Shaman blood hes got. They can meld with anything. And if his body was left at the foot of the tree next to sea life, i believe that explains it.
Living Jar Cletus is smoking peyote and huffing galaxy gas with this theory, but to answer you: - mohg and morgott were born before Godwyn and the forming of the golden order. when Marika defeated the GEQ, she removed the rune of death from the Elden Ring, which contained the essence of the crucible. godwyn was the perfect child, because he was born (with Godfrey) of the pure order of gold. also literally why she went apesh*t for the shattering--Godwyn was all she had ever fought for
There’s something weird going on with the Golden Lineage and why Godrick is reffered as a “runt” even with his demigod status. Also the Banished Knights, Nepheli’s questline, and Kenneth Height all seem to be hinting something about his illegitimacy. I’ve noticed that when you first meet Nepheli she’s standing over one of the banished knights, commenting about their “choice of master”. It brings up questions because the rulers of Stormveil would inevitably be Godfrey’s Golden Lineage after their conquest, but if the seat of the Golden Lineage must also be Stormveil and Godrick is confirmed to be the blood of Godfrey, how could he not be the heir to Stormveil? Kenneth calls Godrick a “usurper “ and constantly raves on about finding a “true and stalwart Lord of the **proper lineage** to take the reins of Limgrave.” There has to be a specific reason he chooses Nepheli and my working theory but is because Nepheli is one of last descendants of the stormhawk clan that built Stormveil, reinforced by her dialogue of “reminds me of my first hawk”of which lineage is the rightful by which Haight supports her claim to rule Stormveil. It’s very curious that Nepheli also doesn’t help us anywhere else except Godrick and Godfrey - not against any other demigod, or Morgott, or the Fire Giant or even Gideon himself. Why would she appear specifically to kill Hoarah Loux and recognise you as Elden Lord over someone with her surname and, in all honesty, rightful Elden Lord? She seems to be put purposely against Godfreys Golden Lineage which makes me think Godfrey might’ve been the cause of the terrible massacre she described witnessing as a child whilst he was still untamed by Serosh described in the Giant Crusher, “man turned against man”. She gives us the Arsenal Charm which could mean her true ascendant might be the lone revenger of Castle Morne who rode out to fight Godfrey which was likely the Storm Lord after the transition of power between him and Godfrey. The identity of who that is still up in the air but I will say that in all of the Banished Knight armor variations there is ornamentation of dragons most notably on the helm and decorations of thorns on the plate, particularly the gauntlets. These two are both associated with Godwyn judging from him founding the dragon cult and the description of the Marred Leather Shield. Another connection is that the oldest remnants of the Stormveil/Stormclan culture manifest Golden Lightning, such as Commander Niall and the Art of War seen on the Stormhawk Axe used by Nepheli herself which was Godwyns trademark lightning judging from the Death Lightning description. It further connects Godwyn to the storm because the same golden lightning can also be seen in “the heart of the storm”. I think it could be for this reason that in the Duskborn ending, you can see a storm start to weather again because Godwyn has been resurrected kinda similar to how the Weeping Peninsula is always raining too. What currently makes the most sense to me is that Godwyn is the heir of Placidusax and his lightning(red to gold). He began the cult in Farum Azula which is why you find the Prayerbook with the oldest Incantations stating “never reached the Lands Between”.
@@clintonclay3158 I often wondered what Enia meant by “distant relation” but the fact that he possesses a demigod status also seems to implicate he’s directly from Marika which even Godfrey had according to Godricks Great Rune description
Or it's simple, they come from the same tribe, and she likes you more then godfrey as you helped her so much. That's why she might join us with at that fight.
I don't think the hair colour thing really matters as evidence to suggest that Godwyn isn't Godfrey's child, considering that Rykard is blond while his siblings have red hair I also think that Godwyn's victory over and taming of the dragons mirrors Godfrey's victory over and taming of the divine beast Serosh. If anything, it seems like Godwyn is just a son of Godfrey who wasn't born with a curse. A more civilized mirror of his father, one who died too soon. I suspect also that there isn't a strict distinction between an offshoot personhood counterpart, and a normatively begotten child. Especially when it comes to these gods
Messmer is clearly the oldest and before the dlc we believed that Godwin was the oldest so it’s not that much of a stretch that this curse was made after Godwin was born, then marika finds out about it with the birth of the omen twins. Then knowing this information finds a way around it to eventually have the other twins
@@mushroomy9899 How doesn't that make sense though? you can't say something doesn't make sense and provide absolutely nothing to back yourself up. Also, we KNOW Marika had children BEFORE she completely betrayed the Hornsent and orchestrated their eradication via Messmer and Melina.
Godwin was born from the honeymoon, the other two after Godfrey conquered the world for maraka and before she got tired of having him around all the time.
Yeah, I kinda feel that Godwyn is from the dragon lineage. Jack the Mimic and Scum Mage Infa have some good videos on him too. Scum Mage shows how the Malformed Dragon Helm has a dragon icon that looks eerily more like Godwyns fishy form than it does a regular dragon, which is interesting. We also know all this stuff from the dlc about dragons appearing human. Jack has videos on how Godwyn is related to the sun realm which is highly connected to Farum and the Dragons. Kinda weird that it never explicitly says he is som of godfrey or even part of golden lineage. Says he is scion of the golden bough, this means young shoot off of a main branch in a golden tree. Scum Mage Infas latest video shows how there was most likely two trees, relating to sun and moon before the age of the erdtree and they were ruled by dragons (golden in nature). I believe it is possible that Godwyn is related to Godfrey but not necesarily as a child. We know Godfrey has all sorts of connections to Farum azula, overcoming the lord of Beasts, having an axe with the same patterns as the beastman cleaver, Serosh stuff in Farum in the form of statues and his Hammer. I've been digging where your theories have been going and that you reference Kitetales' vid (it is one I am feeling is true :p ) Lots of stuff about godwyn to still uncover like his giant faces in tLoS and Stormveil.
Another explanation would be that Godwin was born before the curse was set on Marika meaning that he wouldn’t be cursed, but any subsequent children that she had would be cursed a.k.a. Morgot and mohg yes that would mean that Messmer was born before the two omen twins, but we never get a confirmation on his father. In my opinion the strumpet line could be referring to Marika cheating on Godfrey with Radagon (or herself) during this time. (This would also explain why Rennalas children are not cursed)
I interpreted the granddamme's curse to be more upon Marika's people of the Erdtree (the children of her empire) rather than her direct offspring. My reasoning being that Omen don't seem to have existed at all in any prior culture, the Hornsent are never described as being plagued by these nightmares and the only text in the entire DLC that mentions the concept of Omen is that line about cursing Marika's children, and that curse appears to be the origin of the Omen. Meanwhile the entire Erdtree culture seems to be plagued by children born as Omen that don't seem to exist anywhere else and likely aren't all the direct offspring of Marika. And I'm pretty sure the vengeful spirits they're haunted by are the Hornsent slaughtered by Messmer 🤷 Edit: eh, the Marika being jarred theory relies mostly on the idea of her being a "jar-saint", which has been pretty thoroughly debunked as being an actual concept in the game at this point (the closest thing being the kindly jar people in jarburg)
Last Protagonist had a video about the Hornsent Grandam's dialogue. The word that the base game uses for the creatures known as Omen is not used in the Japanese version of her dialogue. Also, when the Hornsent Grandam uses the word "omen", she doesn't capitalize it as most uses of it in the base game do.
It would have been nice to have seen what Godwyn looked like in his prime before death, im sure Marika favoured him as her golden handsome son. Especially after experiencing the fear of another earlier son, Messmer and the Serpent affliction he was born with, and forgetting about him as she moved on with her own Golden Age in The Lands Between. I can see why it could have driven her to the brink, over the edge, losing Godwyn first of her golden age children to death, like her Shaman people before him, the Eternal experiencing death and loss again, and then shattering The Elden Ring. When i first seen the Elden Ring dlc story trailer, my first thought when i saw Marika holding the golden strands overhead, i thought she looked like a very similar figure, to the one seen as Godwyn dead on the floor, in the base game story trailer when Ranni said he was the first to die. Both Marika and Godwyn had long blonde hair, and both of their appearances resembled each other, in both story trailers, im sure Marika must have beared Godwyn herself.
Excellent video my man, I haven’t seen anyone point out such details as these and it really does make sense. The idea of Marika having Godwyn on her own makes him even more unique and it would actually explain why was he born and seen as a perfect being
Very cool video, love ones like these that question what we really know about the world and the characters, something i would of never come up with on my own
My latest interesting thought. The origin of the twin dragon lords. Perhaps Placidusax is a created lord through means of a jarring ritual containing ancient dragons. The jar can be found in Caelid and was later turned into a warrior jar with the bodies in the arena just behind. Bayle perhaps was created to spite the dragonlord and the ruling reign of the ancient culture. Forged in the crucible at the mountaintops of the Giants with aspects of the crucible and an ancientdragon heaet and gravel stones. Just a thought
there are so many things that are still vague and unknown about the lore of elden ring, but the thing about this is the names, why the demigods name mostly the same starting letter, Radagon and Rennala bare Radahn Ranni Rykard, the thing is Morgott Mohg and Godwyn is M and G from Marika and Godfrey so Godwyn is Godfrey son possibilities is pretty high.
I've Always assumed Godwyn was an omen too, because of his mermaid tail. Like, omen are linked to the crucible, and the aspects of the primordial crucible are animal like features like wings (mohg), horns (Morgott), and so maybe fish tails. Think about it, we nevers actually saw Godwyn's legs, even in the begining cutscene, they're always hidden
Yessssss finally some vindication/affirmation! Been thinking this for awhile now, but nobody seemed to like my idea. I honestly thought he was Radagon's son, or someone Marika had an affair with. After all, why would his brothers both be Omen, but Godwyn not? Although there is a golden haired Lion Dancer mask in the same room as the Grandam, I don't know if that would have any connection to, well, anything. Godwyn being filled with the same maggots we see in the putrid corpse enemies, and the liquid seeping from his eyes appearing to be putrescence. So Godwyn is very probably linked to the corrupted dead that drift to the lands between in the stone coffins, slowly being sucked down into the great fissure Miquella discarded St. Trina down. Gold itself seems to pervade the lore, beyond the confines of the Golden Order. In other words, Gold has had a lasting impact on the Lands Between, beginning long before Marika ever sought Godhood. It clearly pervades the Hornsent, as we see in the upper reaches of their spiral tower, with golden trees with human forms appearing in their trunks. Interestingly there are dark-colored trees all over the base game that resemble one tree wrapped around another like the Scadutree, with a split in their bark that looks gold. They also grow pretty much exclusively where bodies are piled up or buried (albunauric village is a prime example of these trees, they're in the poison swamp and up in the village itself.) Then there's the gold of Grace, which seems like some kind of parasite or mind-control, spread through the brief period of Marika gifting the sap of the Erdtree to her people as a blessing. The old sigil of the Erdtree is identical to the small golden tree in the Shaman village. I realize that's all just a scattershot of schizo-posting, but I share these thoughts in the hopes that someone can make some sense of it, find some connections I can work with, because right now I know I'm missing some key piece of info to tie these things together. Everytime I think I'm onto a good theory, I realize it contradicts itself somewhere. What I am sure of is that certain aspects of the lore that get taken for granted as being "solved" or confirmed are not, the subject of this video being a prime example. I know George's writing well enough to have a decent feel for what kinds of twists this story has, but in typical Miyazaki fashion it's hard to nail down any of the specifics.
Perhaps each of Maria's children are curses she obtained through defeating others in her conquest of the lands between that she then shot off, or perhaps Radigon himself is another of these off shoot curses from the giants.
I also want to add that scion can mean descendent of an influential/noble family, _but_ it can also mean a section of a plant cut and grafted onto another, different plant. A scion of the golden bough = a piece cut from the golden bough and attached to something else. This could be read as Godwyn being detached from Marika's grace upon his soul's death and attached to a new type of system (living outside of death) beyond the boundaries of the Golden Order, or it could refer to him being the child of another father outside/before of the Golden Order, and yet grafted onto and adopted into this golden family -- "The dragon cult of the royal capital was compatible because the ancient dragons' lightning was imbued with gold."
As for my comment here on Godwyn, this is just my take: You say The Hornsent cursed Marika due to her betrayal, which I completely agree. So in reference to Godwyn, what if his fate to die in soul and become the Death Prince was a result of the Hornsent's curse? Godwyn is talked up as having been *him*. He was the only Demigod born without defect, he was powerful, beautiful, and perfect, called "The Golden", he out of all the Demigods was most likely to succeed Marika as ruler. He was equally as kind, being naturally charismatic while Miquella had to charm people. He was truly her favorite child. Godwyn may have been born perfect, only to suffer such a horrible fate, merely as a means of punishing Marika, to show her she can never escape her past. His purpose in the game is sadly nothing more, than to have been the first demigod to die. So if Godwyn is in fact a child of Marika alone, then the hornsent's curse would've surely affected him all the same, just not the exact same as it did her other children. Think about it, among nearly 10 children you birth, only 1 is born without defect, and is then killed, most likely as a result of nothing more than the ghost of your past. This theory also works whether you belive Godwyn is Marika's child alone, or if he is in fact the child of Marika and Godfrey. And if Godwyn *was* born from Marika alone it raises the question... Was he too, an Empyrean?
@@ChavaGrace-c5h Me personally, I still believe he is the son of Godfrey and Marika. But I won't rule out the idea that he is Marika's child alone, because then that would make him an Empyrean, and to a degree also explain why he was so powerful, both in life and in death- As The Golden, he defeated the Ancient Dragons As The Death Prince, he is affecting the entire world, even places beyond time
@@thewhitespectre Oh I agree with you. I just assumed he was just as cursed as her other children. His fate was to die and become the total opposite of what he was in life imo.
@@ChavaGrace-c5h I wouldn't say he was just as cursed as her other children, because Godwyn's fate to a degree was preventable. Had someone known about The Night Of The Black Knives and stopped them from killing Godwyn, then he would likely still be alive and thriving. The rest of the demigods however, sadly never stood a chance. Morgott and Mohg were born omens, no way to prevent or fix that Messmer was born with the abyssal serpent, no way to prevent or fix that. Miquella and Malenia were respectively born cursed with scarlet rot and eternal youth, so far no way to prevent those, but just maybe fix them if Miquella succeeded his goals. Godwyn? All he had to do was not die, and he very well could've been saved. Had Ranni opted to kill any other demigod, or if the plot was altogether stopped, problem solved.
I had a similar theory that I didn't delve too deep into but it stemmed with Godwin's father being that of a dragon. As we see a statue of possibly marika in farum azula it could be thought that she was the fled god that abandoned him. Either she's very old or time doesn't work the same in farum azula. Beast men who are products of the greater will could link her shadow maliketh to faurm azula this her maybe. The grandam calling her a strumpet could be because of her relationships with the dragon lord, Godfrey(the one they probably chose for her) and radagon. Hair color it does seem important but the golden lineage having white hair seems possibly connected to the shaman as they also have white hair. I wonder if marika had white hair before claiming the power of gold.
"The Golden Bough" mentioned by the finger-reader is the name of a book by James George Frazer It's subtitle is "A Study of Magic and Religion"; so there's a bit of a reference there There are other books such as Robert Graves' "The White Goddess" and Thomas Pynchon's "V." and "Gravity's Rainbow" (see: rainbow stones) that I think influenced Miyazaki, if you want to explore some synopses.
You onto something for sure, I agree with maybe 85% of this video outright, and feel like the remaining 15% is off or can't be known. Such is the way of FromSoft Lore I suppose.
Since they are born like Athena and spawning from things what is godwyn is the connection to the Elden beast and that’s why godwyn is part eldritch beast
Love this theory, I think it’s very plausible given the amount of information we are given in game. I also think the Cersei-Marika angle is a good one.
Now its a little easier for me to believe that he was his son between merika and godfrey. Her children were cursed.... she fought for a godhood that couldnt or wouldnt heal her cursed blood....... thus merika spilt by either her own will or the will of the elden beast to have children with someone else to have less cursed children........ to raise to godhood.....then merika feeling as if everything was slipping away from her because she could never love her children under the elden tree...... so she shattered it, hoping her children would force a change or destroy the tree......
I would mostly like to know what made merika feel like she had to create a child from within herself by herself or if the process is much darker....... when did radagon become or were they always a twin soul one body?
Perhaps it could be why Godwyn was Marika's most beloved, as all of her true children were each and all rejected due to the omen curse, killed and forever interred within the wandering Malsoleums. Maybe this DLC gave us more than we think as it gave us an answer to why the ghost outside the church of Pilgrimage said they are the rejected children of Marika And with how Ranni's plot went, this may explain why Marika grieved as much as she did, because the Black Knife assassins could have never secured the fragments of Destined Death with Maliketh guarding it, not without someone of her status to set him up to fail. So not only Godwyn was her only normal child without a curse, she was the one who allowed his death to happen. All to be part of her plan to topple the Golden Order
Been saying Godwyn isn't Godfrey's son for several years at this point. Glad more people are getting off the "item descriptions are almost always 100% true" style of lore analysis. It was always kinda brain dead and never made any sense.
I know in the past people give theories like this a lot of crap because there isn't a ton of evidence and they are definitely not very likely, but so much of the souls series is about giving off strong vibes, there is a lot of metaphor mixed with the literal. So while I don't agree that this reading is definitely 100% super true facts, it does however have immaculate vibes and is a perfectly acceptable personal reading or head canon. Its also important to know that even a lot of widely accepted theories are often head canon as well because these games very rarely give hard and unbiased answers in their text.
Miyazaki likes leaving stuff like this up to interpretation. All we know is that Godwyn the Golden was a demigod and the first to fall, coinciding with the rune of death being stolen. What's not up for interpretation is the pronunciation of "Grandam." She's not a car.
The problem with Elden Ring is that one tends to see the game as if hundreds of years have passed, when in reality eons have passed between one era and another; That is why Marika is known as the Eternal. Regarding Godwyn and the curse of the Omen, and why his hair is gold and not white it may be time. It may be that Godwyn was already born when the hornset cursed her. Or he can simply inherit the Queen's golden hair and that's why she considered him her favorite. Like an echo of its people.
I started doubting Godwyn's parentage as soon as I realized his name doesn't fit the naming scheme. Mogh, Morgott, Messmer, Melina, Malenia, Miquella - Mothered by Marika, given M names Rykard, Radahn, Ranni - mothered by Rennala, given R names Godwyn - huh? Even if you argue that the R names from from Radagon, that doesn't explain why Godwyn would have a name that starts with G if he had the same parents as the Omen twins. It also doesn't explain why some children would be named after the letter in the father's name, but others would be named after the mother. I tend to think they're all named after the mother, given how important and revered mothers have been shown to be in this culture. In that case, is Godwyn the stolen baby that the game has been hinting about via abductor virgins and cuckoos? Who would mother G be?
That's actually a really good point! That seems more likely to me than the theory in this video. If he was abducted then they may have just named him after his new father at the time of taking where as all other children were named after their mother at birth. But that begs the question of how he became a demigod which all seem to be progeny of Marika?
@@Aleaf_Inwind because the other children that came from Godfrey and Marika were the Omen twins... so they didnt continue to name the children with the G for the Golden lineage as they were not wanted due to the omen curse
@@Aleaf_Inwind in some way, now that makes me think why was not Godwyn afflicted with the omen curse... i think maybe Godwyn was born still in the lands of shadow, before Marika betrayed the hornsent people, and thats why maybe he was celebrated as being from a Golden lineage, or Marika just wanted all of her children to be from the Golden lineage since Gold is very important to her order, but once the Omen twins were born she changed her mind, and deposited all her cards and efforts on Godwyn, thus when he died, she had nothing... and thus the shattering took place... he was mommas favourite son
Wait, if the hornscent’s beast is a lion then it explains why Merika seals her shadow beast and sent Godfrey away with Serosh. They could have been omens for the curse laid on her by the hornscent grandmother.
Giving birth to twin horned babies might be an experience. I mean, damn. It must hurts. That would be a good excuse to Marikas/Radagon/mastubation relationship.
Just because Godwyn is called a demigod doesn't necessarily mean he's a child of Marika either since Godfrey was called a demigod aswell. It seems pure might may also grant one the title of demigod. He is called a scion of the golden bow though so perhaps a child of the royal line of the golden tree aka the Erdtree. Funny you made this video with that title while I've been looking into Godfrey more the last couple of days and had the same idea of him not being Godfrey's son.
I don't know who his father is but I know (maybe just me) Godfrey isn't his father, it I had to take a guess, he was created by Marika, how and why don't know why, but the how maybe the jar saints might have the answer for that one
That whole jar offshot makes 0 sense. If they were all born during the alleged jarring of marika, which is already suspect to begin with, then they would all have to be the same age, yet malenia and miquella was always described as born after radagon divorcing renalla. Besides we never met prime godwyn, all we got were a few lines of texts about how he is. I mean we dont even know what he looked like pre deathprincebomination. Only that he had golden hair and a normal looking eye.
They wouldnt have to be the same age. If its video game magic occuring in the first place im not sure why you draw the line at them coming about at different times…you should check out my last video. Genuinely, i think you may enjoy it. I strongly believe theres evidence for this but THIS video is not about that. My last one is though and i explain it much more thoroughly
@livingjarcletus eh? Like how they popped out but only arrived hundreds of years in the future....? I feel thats way too convinient even for fromsoft games lol.
Felt incomplete without acknowledging the hair. Im aware miquella is a blondie. However he would fall under the same scope of “offshoots” i refer to. Unlike renalla’s children, which i consider to be legitimate because of rennalla. And radagon. Radagon and Marika is sort of….just marika
@livingjarcletus yeah I get that and I appreciate it, but it's kind of a factoid that shouldn't be pointed at as "proof", a curious detail at most. Either all of Radagon's descendants have red hair or they don't. Either all of Godfrey's children have silver hair or they don't. Isn't it more likely that it's a simple genetic thing and some children/offshoots have the hair of either parent? or a diluted combination like blonde + red = rosegold / strawberry blonde, like in real life (and with Melina). I also had another bone to pick XD You later speak of other cursed omen. But you also speak of it like a curse placed by Omen Babushka on Marika's lineage specifically. Then, why would a curse upon Marika's children also affect the children of other people? And why not the children of all people? Or why not ALL the children of SOME people? Nobles and plebs alike had A FEW children with the omen curse, and other children didn't. For example, why MUST all of marika's children be cursed if not every noble children was cursed too and sent to the sewers?
@@livingjarcletus Rykard is also blonde as seen in his portrait and in the intro cutscene to the game, so the hair theory doesn’t quite fit. It did have me thinking on it though, until I remembered that detail
Ehhh… i dunno about this… You’re pretty much basing this whole theory on what Hornsent Grandam said, when, i feel like you misinterpreted it. She said the omen curse will strike you down in form of the sacred beasts ire. Honestly, i think that’s just referring to the devine beast dancing lion killing us, the tarnished, Marikas kin. Godwyn is almost certainly Godfrey’s son, there’s just too much behind it, the naming convention is probably the most notable one.
First...the grandma doesnt say that She said this: "A-Ah! Who art thou, stranger…? …by the look of thee, another of Messmer's peons, methinks. Tell me, dost thy kind never weary grow? How do these old bones fascinate thee yet? Our lands were by thy kind set aflame, our tower by thy kind veiled in shadow. Thou cam'st, robbing us of all, spoiling all. Have ye not basked in these deeds long enough? Listen, progeny of the wanton strumpet. For thy sins thou shalt have thy recompense - the sacred beast shall unleash its ire. Till then, with this old hag do what thou wilt, for all the good it'll do thee in the end!" Never says "omen"
I see your point. Title may be awfully bold lol, but i do believe what i say. I didnt want to get too far into it in this video, but my last video has a very fleshed out theory on the origin of the greater part of marikas children. And THAT is my biggest point…really. That if her children are what i believe they are, Godwyns parentage is simpler. But an alternative need be mentioned, and it is at the end of the video. But you are certainly correct in that there isnt mountains of evidence to support this claim. Although i do believe the evidence, albeit small, is valid.
i disagree. i like your video a lot, but there is one thing that has explained the particular line you see importance in with the Grandam, that led me to understanding how Godwyn could've been cursed
This video could’ve been two minutes, and you’re clearly coming at this with a ton of confirmation bias, I felt my time was wasted waiting for something clever to be brought up and it just wasn’t
I don't understand how all of the lore hunters ignore the description of the Remembrances, especially after the DLC and with all of the art and lore about Erdtree/Crucible birth. Turtle Meat says that there aren't any normal births. Demigods' Remembrance is taken by the Erdtree to be used again. Erdtree burial is an honor for those worthy of being reused. This is why, I think, that all of the demigods are bound to past lords, gods, and demigods. "Descendants" are just a diluted likeness. Edit: when Miyazaki said that demigod immortality is different than tarnished immortality, I think what I said above is what he meant about demigods. This is why the Erdtree faction thought the snake children were blasphemy as much as true death is a blasphemy. They're both separate from Grace. The tarnished were resurrected by Grace after having it taken to complete the turning of the Age.
@@TheSkyfolkbut when was "used to"? It still happens with spurned creatures, but I don't think it does with Demigods born from Remembrances of past Lords and Gods budded by the Tree's Grace. I edited a bit including a few things like the snake births as a blasphemy to the Erdtree. I think all of the demigods, except for maybe the children with Rennala, were born entirely from the tree. Those 3 took their own paths to seize and discover power that hadn't been born to them. I think the Shield of the Guilty is referencing how Marika and the GEQ were reborn as saints. It seems like Marika was killed in thorns/sin and reborn in the Tree. This hypothesis is really impossible to put clear points on, but it's heavily supported by the Age of the Erdtree being one in which death ceased as did typical birth. Think about these ideas along with the song of the Harpy Matriarchs. Marika's flawed design is what caused the need for all of the various destructive forces to grow during the Shattering.
@@evelynlamoy8483 Interesting theory. Do you have any basis for it? I’ll admit there’s something weird about out Radagon and Godwyn. At first it was simply by the way Radagon looks similar to Godwyn(or what glimpses we see of him). Godwyn parallels the Nameless King figure from DS in many ways with him being the firstborn son of a ruler with the previous being ruled by Ancient Dragons whom he begins a cult with, also using Golden Lightning and manipulating the storm. I think it’s for this reason why everything surrounding Stormcaller Church is connected to Godwyn(dragon cult items and the monument detailing the routing of the dragons) yet there stands a statue of Radagon. That statue also has golden hair(all of Radagons statues have golden hair I think). The way Radagon and Godwyn are dressed is similar too and halfway into his health bar, Radagon begins to use golden spears in the style of a lightning user which is peculiar since that was Godwyn’s trademark with Golden Lightning. He teleports as lightning, which is what Godwyns death knights are able to do in the DLC(they wear the same sash/skirts) and he uses the Storm Stomp AOW.
Sorry man but you had me til you mentioned the Jar Saint theory at the end. There is zero indication that the being shoved into the jar was ever supposed to make a god or be anything more than a punishment for heathens and heretics so I will never be able to take seriously an idea that Marika was "THE Jar Saint". And theres a much more rational reason for why marika's children wouldnt have to be traditionally born, that is brought up so many times in game, and it's the fact that the Shaman bloodline is essentially Tree People. The demigods prove this even more. Miquella was becoming a tree and even growing a new body in it, malenia bloomed flowers and her children come from those flowers, Godrick "grafts" which is a plant term for fusing two plants together, marika and radagon are "petrified" more like wood than stone, theres 2 shaman women turned into wood with branches growing from them, and there are womens bodies in the trees in Enir Elim. Many plants are able to self-fertilize and have male and female organs for reproduction, like Marika/Radagon, and Miquella/Trina. Therefore, why not just self-fertilize your children if your husband is just gonna give you children that look like your horned torturers?
Timeline doesn't work. Marika's conquest of hornsent takes place at a very specific moment in time, after Godfrey is exiled and before Radagon is recalled from Raya Lucaria. Meaning Mogh and Morgott were already born, meaning Grandam curses Marika for something else. Most likely for ascending to Godhood using the gate.
I wonder if Godwyn was the only child that Marika gave birth to before being cursed, and that is why his death drove her to the brink. He IS the Golden Child. The perfect child of a god. She was no longer able to produce a child unmarked by the Omen Curse, leaving him to be the only one she would ever have untainted. And they killed him.
Last Protagonist has a video about that. In the original Japanese, the word that is otherwise used for the beings known as the Omens is not used in the Hornsent Grandam's dialogue. In any case, Commander Gaius knew Radahn, which indicates that Messmer's crusade took place at the very least AFTER the Second Liurnian War, meaning Morgott had probably been born before Messmer set the land ablaze.
Or maybe Godwyns deformity was just easier to hide. The crucible is a mixture of all animals including flys, birds, and horned creatures, Godwyns body is fishlike where his legs should be. Maybe he’s like naymor and aquaman
Nah i think Godwyn being like a nightmare merman is cuz of that Shaman blood hes got. They can meld with anything. And if his body was left at the foot of the tree next to sea life, i believe that explains it.
Living Jar Cletus is smoking peyote and huffing galaxy gas with this theory, but to answer you:
- mohg and morgott were born before Godwyn and the forming of the golden order. when Marika defeated the GEQ, she removed the rune of death from the Elden Ring, which contained the essence of the crucible. godwyn was the perfect child, because he was born (with Godfrey) of the pure order of gold. also literally why she went apesh*t for the shattering--Godwyn was all she had ever fought for
There’s something weird going on with the Golden Lineage and why Godrick is reffered as a “runt” even with his demigod status. Also the Banished Knights, Nepheli’s questline, and Kenneth Height all seem to be hinting something about his illegitimacy. I’ve noticed that when you first meet Nepheli she’s standing over one of the banished knights, commenting about their “choice of master”. It brings up questions because the rulers of Stormveil would inevitably be Godfrey’s Golden Lineage after their conquest, but if the seat of the Golden Lineage must also be Stormveil and Godrick is confirmed to be the blood of Godfrey, how could he not be the heir to Stormveil? Kenneth calls Godrick a “usurper “ and constantly raves on about finding a “true and stalwart Lord of the **proper lineage** to take the reins of Limgrave.” There has to be a specific reason he chooses Nepheli and my working theory but is because Nepheli is one of last descendants of the stormhawk clan that built Stormveil, reinforced by her dialogue of “reminds me of my first hawk”of which lineage is the rightful by which Haight supports her claim to rule Stormveil. It’s very curious that Nepheli also doesn’t help us anywhere else except Godrick and Godfrey - not against any other demigod, or Morgott, or the Fire Giant or even Gideon himself. Why would she appear specifically to kill Hoarah Loux and recognise you as Elden Lord over someone with her surname and, in all honesty, rightful Elden Lord? She seems to be put purposely against Godfreys Golden Lineage which makes me think Godfrey might’ve been the cause of the terrible massacre she described witnessing as a child whilst he was still untamed by Serosh described in the Giant Crusher, “man turned against man”. She gives us the Arsenal Charm which could mean her true ascendant might be the lone revenger of Castle Morne who rode out to fight Godfrey which was likely the Storm Lord after the transition of power between him and Godfrey. The identity of who that is still up in the air but I will say that in all of the Banished Knight armor variations there is ornamentation of dragons most notably on the helm and decorations of thorns on the plate, particularly the gauntlets. These two are both associated with Godwyn judging from him founding the dragon cult and the description of the Marred Leather Shield. Another connection is that the oldest remnants of the Stormveil/Stormclan culture manifest Golden Lightning, such as Commander Niall and the Art of War seen on the Stormhawk Axe used by Nepheli herself which was Godwyns trademark lightning judging from the Death Lightning description. It further connects Godwyn to the storm because the same golden lightning can also be seen in “the heart of the storm”. I think it could be for this reason that in the Duskborn ending, you can see a storm start to weather again because Godwyn has been resurrected kinda similar to how the Weeping Peninsula is always raining too. What currently makes the most sense to me is that Godwyn is the heir of Placidusax and his lightning(red to gold). He began the cult in Farum Azula which is why you find the Prayerbook with the oldest Incantations stating “never reached the Lands Between”.
Have you consulted this with what everyone else has discovered? Particularly Hawkshaw?
@ How do you mean? I know about Hawkshaw but I have t seen him touch on these subjects too much unless I’ve missed something
Hes "the blood of godfrey" which means hes probably a great great great grandson through one of Godfreys children mixing with a non God.
@@clintonclay3158 I often wondered what Enia meant by “distant relation” but the fact that he possesses a demigod status also seems to implicate he’s directly from Marika which even Godfrey had according to Godricks Great Rune description
Or it's simple, they come from the same tribe, and she likes you more then godfrey as you helped her so much. That's why she might join us with at that fight.
I don't think the hair colour thing really matters as evidence to suggest that Godwyn isn't Godfrey's child, considering that Rykard is blond while his siblings have red hair
I also think that Godwyn's victory over and taming of the dragons mirrors Godfrey's victory over and taming of the divine beast Serosh. If anything, it seems like Godwyn is just a son of Godfrey who wasn't born with a curse. A more civilized mirror of his father, one who died too soon.
I suspect also that there isn't a strict distinction between an offshoot personhood counterpart, and a normatively begotten child. Especially when it comes to these gods
What if godwyn was around way before the hornscent put the omen curse on morgoth and mogwhyn
that wouldn’t make any sense at all
Messmer is clearly the oldest and before the dlc we believed that Godwin was the oldest so it’s not that much of a stretch that this curse was made after Godwin was born, then marika finds out about it with the birth of the omen twins. Then knowing this information finds a way around it to eventually have the other twins
@@BrielTuewe read my comment, i don’t even think the omen curse was placed on them
@@mushroomy9899 How doesn't that make sense though? you can't say something doesn't make sense and provide absolutely nothing to back yourself up. Also, we KNOW Marika had children BEFORE she completely betrayed the Hornsent and orchestrated their eradication via Messmer and Melina.
@@mushroomy9899 The Omen curse did get placed on the twins though. This is literally confirmed by their mere appearance, let alone the lore.
Godwin was born from the honeymoon, the other two after Godfrey conquered the world for maraka and before she got tired of having him around all the time.
Yeah, I kinda feel that Godwyn is from the dragon lineage.
Jack the Mimic and Scum Mage Infa have some good videos on him too. Scum Mage shows how the Malformed Dragon Helm has a dragon icon that looks eerily more like Godwyns fishy form than it does a regular dragon, which is interesting. We also know all this stuff from the dlc about dragons appearing human. Jack has videos on how Godwyn is related to the sun realm which is highly connected to Farum and the Dragons.
Kinda weird that it never explicitly says he is som of godfrey or even part of golden lineage. Says he is scion of the golden bough, this means young shoot off of a main branch in a golden tree.
Scum Mage Infas latest video shows how there was most likely two trees, relating to sun and moon before the age of the erdtree and they were ruled by dragons (golden in nature). I believe it is possible that Godwyn is related to Godfrey but not necesarily as a child.
We know Godfrey has all sorts of connections to Farum azula, overcoming the lord of Beasts, having an axe with the same patterns as the beastman cleaver, Serosh stuff in Farum in the form of statues and his Hammer.
I've been digging where your theories have been going and that you reference Kitetales' vid (it is one I am feeling is true :p )
Lots of stuff about godwyn to still uncover like his giant faces in tLoS and Stormveil.
Another explanation would be that Godwin was born before the curse was set on Marika meaning that he wouldn’t be cursed, but any subsequent children that she had would be cursed a.k.a. Morgot and mohg yes that would mean that Messmer was born before the two omen twins, but we never get a confirmation on his father. In my opinion the strumpet line could be referring to Marika cheating on Godfrey with Radagon (or herself) during this time. (This would also explain why Rennalas children are not cursed)
I interpreted the granddamme's curse to be more upon Marika's people of the Erdtree (the children of her empire) rather than her direct offspring. My reasoning being that Omen don't seem to have existed at all in any prior culture, the Hornsent are never described as being plagued by these nightmares and the only text in the entire DLC that mentions the concept of Omen is that line about cursing Marika's children, and that curse appears to be the origin of the Omen. Meanwhile the entire Erdtree culture seems to be plagued by children born as Omen that don't seem to exist anywhere else and likely aren't all the direct offspring of Marika. And I'm pretty sure the vengeful spirits they're haunted by are the Hornsent slaughtered by Messmer 🤷
Edit: eh, the Marika being jarred theory relies mostly on the idea of her being a "jar-saint", which has been pretty thoroughly debunked as being an actual concept in the game at this point (the closest thing being the kindly jar people in jarburg)
Last Protagonist had a video about the Hornsent Grandam's dialogue. The word that the base game uses for the creatures known as Omen is not used in the Japanese version of her dialogue. Also, when the Hornsent Grandam uses the word "omen", she doesn't capitalize it as most uses of it in the base game do.
It would have been nice to have seen what Godwyn looked like in his prime before death, im sure Marika favoured him as her golden handsome son. Especially after experiencing the fear of another earlier son, Messmer and the Serpent affliction he was born with, and forgetting about him as she moved on with her own Golden Age in The Lands Between. I can see why it could have driven her to the brink, over the edge, losing Godwyn first of her golden age children to death, like her Shaman people before him, the Eternal experiencing death and loss again, and then shattering The Elden Ring.
When i first seen the Elden Ring dlc story trailer, my first thought when i saw Marika holding the golden strands overhead, i thought she looked like a very similar figure, to the one seen as Godwyn dead on the floor, in the base game story trailer when Ranni said he was the first to die. Both Marika and Godwyn had long blonde hair, and both of their appearances resembled each other, in both story trailers, im sure Marika must have beared Godwyn herself.
We do actually get a decent look at him via trailers
This is the closest I've ever heard to my own tinfoil, and I appreciate you. Thank you!
Excellent video my man, I haven’t seen anyone point out such details as these and it really does make sense. The idea of Marika having Godwyn on her own makes him even more unique and it would actually explain why was he born and seen as a perfect being
Very cool video, love ones like these that question what we really know about the world and the characters, something i would of never come up with on my own
Radagodwyn
I HAVE TO SHARE THIS, my friends were calling me crazy to think Godwyn wasn’t Godfrey/Marika son
I can’t thank you enough
My latest interesting thought.
The origin of the twin dragon lords.
Perhaps Placidusax is a created lord through means of a jarring ritual containing ancient dragons. The jar can be found in Caelid and was later turned into a warrior jar with the bodies in the arena just behind.
Bayle perhaps was created to spite the dragonlord and the ruling reign of the ancient culture. Forged in the crucible at the mountaintops of the Giants with aspects of the crucible and an ancientdragon heaet and gravel stones.
Just a thought
That's a good one the mixed in flesh and hot stone that's why their is this magma theme with them and their hearts
We are of a same mind. Great theory
evidence? this doesn’t make any sense at all to me.
Dragonlord placi long predates the creation of the warrior jars entirely.
Wew lad that's hot fire. 🔥
there are so many things that are still vague and unknown about the lore of elden ring, but the thing about this is the names, why the demigods name mostly the same starting letter, Radagon and Rennala bare Radahn Ranni Rykard, the thing is Morgott Mohg and Godwyn is M and G from Marika and Godfrey so Godwyn is Godfrey son possibilities is pretty high.
I've Always assumed Godwyn was an omen too, because of his mermaid tail. Like, omen are linked to the crucible, and the aspects of the primordial crucible are animal like features like wings (mohg), horns (Morgott), and so maybe fish tails. Think about it, we nevers actually saw Godwyn's legs, even in the begining cutscene, they're always hidden
Yessssss finally some vindication/affirmation! Been thinking this for awhile now, but nobody seemed to like my idea. I honestly thought he was Radagon's son, or someone Marika had an affair with.
After all, why would his brothers both be Omen, but Godwyn not? Although there is a golden haired Lion Dancer mask in the same room as the Grandam, I don't know if that would have any connection to, well, anything.
Godwyn being filled with the same maggots we see in the putrid corpse enemies, and the liquid seeping from his eyes appearing to be putrescence. So Godwyn is very probably linked to the corrupted dead that drift to the lands between in the stone coffins, slowly being sucked down into the great fissure Miquella discarded St. Trina down.
Gold itself seems to pervade the lore, beyond the confines of the Golden Order. In other words, Gold has had a lasting impact on the Lands Between, beginning long before Marika ever sought Godhood. It clearly pervades the Hornsent, as we see in the upper reaches of their spiral tower, with golden trees with human forms appearing in their trunks. Interestingly there are dark-colored trees all over the base game that resemble one tree wrapped around another like the Scadutree, with a split in their bark that looks gold. They also grow pretty much exclusively where bodies are piled up or buried (albunauric village is a prime example of these trees, they're in the poison swamp and up in the village itself.)
Then there's the gold of Grace, which seems like some kind of parasite or mind-control, spread through the brief period of Marika gifting the sap of the Erdtree to her people as a blessing. The old sigil of the Erdtree is identical to the small golden tree in the Shaman village.
I realize that's all just a scattershot of schizo-posting, but I share these thoughts in the hopes that someone can make some sense of it, find some connections I can work with, because right now I know I'm missing some key piece of info to tie these things together. Everytime I think I'm onto a good theory, I realize it contradicts itself somewhere.
What I am sure of is that certain aspects of the lore that get taken for granted as being "solved" or confirmed are not, the subject of this video being a prime example. I know George's writing well enough to have a decent feel for what kinds of twists this story has, but in typical Miyazaki fashion it's hard to nail down any of the specifics.
@@Coast2CoastFlyin My brother in arms!
Perhaps each of Maria's children are curses she obtained through defeating others in her conquest of the lands between that she then shot off, or perhaps Radigon himself is another of these off shoot curses from the giants.
I also want to add that scion can mean descendent of an influential/noble family, _but_ it can also mean a section of a plant cut and grafted onto another, different plant. A scion of the golden bough = a piece cut from the golden bough and attached to something else. This could be read as Godwyn being detached from Marika's grace upon his soul's death and attached to a new type of system (living outside of death) beyond the boundaries of the Golden Order, or it could refer to him being the child of another father outside/before of the Golden Order, and yet grafted onto and adopted into this golden family -- "The dragon cult of the royal capital was compatible because the ancient dragons' lightning was imbued with gold."
As for my comment here on Godwyn, this is just my take:
You say The Hornsent cursed Marika due to her betrayal, which I completely agree.
So in reference to Godwyn,
what if his fate to die in soul and become the Death Prince was a result of the Hornsent's curse?
Godwyn is talked up as having been *him*.
He was the only Demigod born without defect, he was powerful, beautiful, and perfect, called "The Golden", he out of all the Demigods was most likely to succeed Marika as ruler. He was equally as kind, being naturally charismatic while Miquella had to charm people. He was truly her favorite child.
Godwyn may have been born perfect, only to suffer such a horrible fate, merely as a means of punishing Marika, to show her she can never escape her past.
His purpose in the game is sadly nothing more, than to have been the first demigod to die.
So if Godwyn is in fact a child of Marika alone, then the hornsent's curse would've surely affected him all the same, just not the exact same as it did her other children.
Think about it, among nearly 10 children you birth, only 1 is born without defect, and is then killed, most likely as a result of nothing more than the ghost of your past.
This theory also works whether you belive Godwyn is Marika's child alone, or if he is in fact the child of Marika and Godfrey.
And if Godwyn *was* born from Marika alone it raises the question...
Was he too, an Empyrean?
Glad, I am not the only one to think this.
@@ChavaGrace-c5h
Me personally, I still believe he is the son of Godfrey and Marika.
But I won't rule out the idea that he is Marika's child alone, because then that would make him an Empyrean, and to a degree also explain why he was so powerful, both in life and in death-
As The Golden, he defeated the Ancient Dragons
As The Death Prince, he is affecting the entire world, even places beyond time
@@thewhitespectre Oh I agree with you. I just assumed he was just as cursed as her other children. His fate was to die and become the total opposite of what he was in life imo.
@@ChavaGrace-c5h
I wouldn't say he was just as cursed as her other children, because Godwyn's fate to a degree was preventable. Had someone known about The Night Of The Black Knives and stopped them from killing Godwyn, then he would likely still be alive and thriving.
The rest of the demigods however, sadly never stood a chance.
Morgott and Mohg were born omens, no way to prevent or fix that
Messmer was born with the abyssal serpent, no way to prevent or fix that.
Miquella and Malenia were respectively born cursed with scarlet rot and eternal youth, so far no way to prevent those, but just maybe fix them if Miquella succeeded his goals.
Godwyn? All he had to do was not die, and he very well could've been saved.
Had Ranni opted to kill any other demigod, or if the plot was altogether stopped, problem solved.
I had a similar theory that I didn't delve too deep into but it stemmed with Godwin's father being that of a dragon. As we see a statue of possibly marika in farum azula it could be thought that she was the fled god that abandoned him. Either she's very old or time doesn't work the same in farum azula. Beast men who are products of the greater will could link her shadow maliketh to faurm azula this her maybe.
The grandam calling her a strumpet could be because of her relationships with the dragon lord, Godfrey(the one they probably chose for her) and radagon.
Hair color it does seem important but the golden lineage having white hair seems possibly connected to the shaman as they also have white hair. I wonder if marika had white hair before claiming the power of gold.
"The Golden Bough" mentioned by the finger-reader is the name of a book by James George Frazer
It's subtitle is "A Study of Magic and Religion"; so there's a bit of a reference there
There are other books such as Robert Graves' "The White Goddess" and Thomas Pynchon's "V." and "Gravity's Rainbow" (see: rainbow stones) that I think influenced Miyazaki, if you want to explore some synopses.
You onto something for sure, I agree with maybe 85% of this video outright, and feel like the remaining 15% is off or can't be known.
Such is the way of FromSoft Lore I suppose.
One issue
Omens came about prior to the betrayal. We know this because there are omenkillers in the Land of Shadow.
Since they are born like Athena and spawning from things what is godwyn is the connection to the Elden beast and that’s why godwyn is part eldritch beast
Love this theory, I think it’s very plausible given the amount of information we are given in game. I also think the Cersei-Marika angle is a good one.
Just look at how they are all cursed and what the ire would be
Now its a little easier for me to believe that he was his son between merika and godfrey. Her children were cursed.... she fought for a godhood that couldnt or wouldnt heal her cursed blood....... thus merika spilt by either her own will or the will of the elden beast to have children with someone else to have less cursed children........ to raise to godhood.....then merika feeling as if everything was slipping away from her because she could never love her children under the elden tree...... so she shattered it, hoping her children would force a change or destroy the tree......
I would mostly like to know what made merika feel like she had to create a child from within herself by herself or if the process is much darker....... when did radagon become or were they always a twin soul one body?
Perhaps it could be why Godwyn was Marika's most beloved, as all of her true children were each and all rejected due to the omen curse, killed and forever interred within the wandering Malsoleums. Maybe this DLC gave us more than we think as it gave us an answer to why the ghost outside the church of Pilgrimage said they are the rejected children of Marika
And with how Ranni's plot went, this may explain why Marika grieved as much as she did, because the Black Knife assassins could have never secured the fragments of Destined Death with Maliketh guarding it, not without someone of her status to set him up to fail. So not only Godwyn was her only normal child without a curse, she was the one who allowed his death to happen. All to be part of her plan to topple the Golden Order
Been saying Godwyn isn't Godfrey's son for several years at this point.
Glad more people are getting off the "item descriptions are almost always 100% true" style of lore analysis. It was always kinda brain dead and never made any sense.
I know in the past people give theories like this a lot of crap because there isn't a ton of evidence and they are definitely not very likely, but so much of the souls series is about giving off strong vibes, there is a lot of metaphor mixed with the literal. So while I don't agree that this reading is definitely 100% super true facts, it does however have immaculate vibes and is a perfectly acceptable personal reading or head canon. Its also important to know that even a lot of widely accepted theories are often head canon as well because these games very rarely give hard and unbiased answers in their text.
Miyazaki likes leaving stuff like this up to interpretation. All we know is that Godwyn the Golden was a demigod and the first to fall, coinciding with the rune of death being stolen. What's not up for interpretation is the pronunciation of "Grandam." She's not a car.
The problem with Elden Ring is that one tends to see the game as if hundreds of years have passed, when in reality eons have passed between one era and another; That is why Marika is known as the Eternal. Regarding Godwyn and the curse of the Omen, and why his hair is gold and not white it may be time. It may be that Godwyn was already born when the hornset cursed her. Or he can simply inherit the Queen's golden hair and that's why she considered him her favorite. Like an echo of its people.
Godwyn just never fit in the puzzle just right to me. Definetly something unique about him.
elden beast is the godwyn biological father then
I started doubting Godwyn's parentage as soon as I realized his name doesn't fit the naming scheme.
Mogh, Morgott, Messmer, Melina, Malenia, Miquella - Mothered by Marika, given M names
Rykard, Radahn, Ranni - mothered by Rennala, given R names
Godwyn - huh?
Even if you argue that the R names from from Radagon, that doesn't explain why Godwyn would have a name that starts with G if he had the same parents as the Omen twins. It also doesn't explain why some children would be named after the letter in the father's name, but others would be named after the mother. I tend to think they're all named after the mother, given how important and revered mothers have been shown to be in this culture. In that case, is Godwyn the stolen baby that the game has been hinting about via abductor virgins and cuckoos? Who would mother G be?
he has the G because of Godfrey and the G is for the Golden lineage
That's actually a really good point! That seems more likely to me than the theory in this video. If he was abducted then they may have just named him after his new father at the time of taking where as all other children were named after their mother at birth. But that begs the question of how he became a demigod which all seem to be progeny of Marika?
@@ReactRapTuga But why he is he the only child named as such when every single other child is named for their mother?
@@Aleaf_Inwind because the other children that came from Godfrey and Marika were the Omen twins... so they didnt continue to name the children with the G for the Golden lineage as they were not wanted due to the omen curse
@@Aleaf_Inwind in some way, now that makes me think why was not Godwyn afflicted with the omen curse... i think maybe Godwyn was born still in the lands of shadow, before Marika betrayed the hornsent people, and thats why maybe he was celebrated as being from a Golden lineage, or Marika just wanted all of her children to be from the Golden lineage since Gold is very important to her order, but once the Omen twins were born she changed her mind, and deposited all her cards and efforts on Godwyn, thus when he died, she had nothing... and thus the shattering took place... he was mommas favourite son
Wait, if the hornscent’s beast is a lion then it explains why Merika seals her shadow beast and sent Godfrey away with Serosh. They could have been omens for the curse laid on her by the hornscent grandmother.
I'm actually wondering if he's even Marika's. He's the ONLY child not born cursed
Seems Marika passed down the curses or rather the outer gods through her children or offshoots.
Giving birth to twin horned babies might be an experience.
I mean, damn. It must hurts.
That would be a good excuse to Marikas/Radagon/mastubation relationship.
Oh man, is that why you find healing spells on Marika’s bed? 😳
I feel theres too little info to doubt who Godwyns father was.
Just because Godwyn is called a demigod doesn't necessarily mean he's a child of Marika either since Godfrey was called a demigod aswell. It seems pure might may also grant one the title of demigod. He is called a scion of the golden bow though so perhaps a child of the royal line of the golden tree aka the Erdtree.
Funny you made this video with that title while I've been looking into Godfrey more the last couple of days and had the same idea of him not being Godfrey's son.
I don't know who his father is but I know (maybe just me) Godfrey isn't his father, it I had to take a guess, he was created by Marika, how and why don't know why, but the how maybe the jar saints might have the answer for that one
That whole jar offshot makes 0 sense. If they were all born during the alleged jarring of marika, which is already suspect to begin with, then they would all have to be the same age, yet malenia and miquella was always described as born after radagon divorcing renalla.
Besides we never met prime godwyn, all we got were a few lines of texts about how he is. I mean we dont even know what he looked like pre deathprincebomination. Only that he had golden hair and a normal looking eye.
They wouldnt have to be the same age. If its video game magic occuring in the first place im not sure why you draw the line at them coming about at different times…you should check out my last video. Genuinely, i think you may enjoy it. I strongly believe theres evidence for this but THIS video is not about that. My last one is though and i explain it much more thoroughly
@livingjarcletus eh? Like how they popped out but only arrived hundreds of years in the future....? I feel thats way too convinient even for fromsoft games lol.
Why everything you show in the video is blurred
Probably the video capture device i use to record. Im cheap dog
Not all children of radagon have red hair: sweet cheeks miquella is blonde.
So assuming godwyn is not a child of godfrey can't be supported by this.
Felt incomplete without acknowledging the hair. Im aware miquella is a blondie. However he would fall under the same scope of “offshoots” i refer to. Unlike renalla’s children, which i consider to be legitimate because of rennalla. And radagon. Radagon and Marika is sort of….just marika
@livingjarcletus yeah I get that and I appreciate it, but it's kind of a factoid that shouldn't be pointed at as "proof", a curious detail at most.
Either all of Radagon's descendants have red hair or they don't. Either all of Godfrey's children have silver hair or they don't. Isn't it more likely that it's a simple genetic thing and some children/offshoots have the hair of either parent? or a diluted combination like blonde + red = rosegold / strawberry blonde, like in real life (and with Melina).
I also had another bone to pick XD
You later speak of other cursed omen. But you also speak of it like a curse placed by Omen Babushka on Marika's lineage specifically. Then, why would a curse upon Marika's children also affect the children of other people? And why not the children of all people? Or why not ALL the children of SOME people?
Nobles and plebs alike had A FEW children with the omen curse, and other children didn't. For example, why MUST all of marika's children be cursed if not every noble children was cursed too and sent to the sewers?
@@livingjarcletus idk why but my response doesn't appear on my screen 😭
@@livingjarcletus Rykard is also blonde as seen in his portrait and in the intro cutscene to the game, so the hair theory doesn’t quite fit. It did have me thinking on it though, until I remembered that detail
Ehhh… i dunno about this… You’re pretty much basing this whole theory on what Hornsent Grandam said, when, i feel like you misinterpreted it. She said the omen curse will strike you down in form of the sacred beasts ire. Honestly, i think that’s just referring to the devine beast dancing lion killing us, the tarnished, Marikas kin. Godwyn is almost certainly Godfrey’s son, there’s just too much behind it, the naming convention is probably the most notable one.
Godfrey isn’t really his name though right? It’s more so a title - I believe Hoarah Loux is his real name.
@@christopherlyndsay8611 so? as elden lord he is godfrey, as chieftain of the badlands he is hoarah loux, he had his kids when he was elden lord
First...the grandma doesnt say that
She said this:
"A-Ah! Who art thou, stranger…?
…by the look of thee, another of Messmer's peons, methinks.
Tell me, dost thy kind never weary grow? How do these old bones fascinate thee yet?
Our lands were by thy kind set aflame, our tower by thy kind veiled in shadow.
Thou cam'st, robbing us of all, spoiling all. Have ye not basked in these deeds long enough?
Listen, progeny of the wanton strumpet.
For thy sins thou shalt have thy recompense - the sacred beast shall unleash its ire.
Till then, with this old hag do what thou wilt, for all the good it'll do thee in the end!"
Never says "omen"
I see your point. Title may be awfully bold lol, but i do believe what i say. I didnt want to get too far into it in this video, but my last video has a very fleshed out theory on the origin of the greater part of marikas children. And THAT is my biggest point…really. That if her children are what i believe they are, Godwyns parentage is simpler. But an alternative need be mentioned, and it is at the end of the video. But you are certainly correct in that there isnt mountains of evidence to support this claim. Although i do believe the evidence, albeit small, is valid.
She does. You may have missed the dialogue, but she does
i pray you made this up for clicks. if so well done, very creative
i disagree. i like your video a lot, but there is one thing that has explained the particular line you see importance in with the Grandam, that led me to understanding how Godwyn could've been cursed
Godwyn the Golden is son Dragon Lord and the Elden Beast
This video could’ve been two minutes, and you’re clearly coming at this with a ton of confirmation bias, I felt my time was wasted waiting for something clever to be brought up and it just wasn’t
NUH UH
I like the concept but the evidence you gave dwindled off. Interesting video though.
I don't understand how all of the lore hunters ignore the description of the Remembrances, especially after the DLC and with all of the art and lore about Erdtree/Crucible birth.
Turtle Meat says that there aren't any normal births.
Demigods' Remembrance is taken by the Erdtree to be used again. Erdtree burial is an honor for those worthy of being reused. This is why, I think, that all of the demigods are bound to past lords, gods, and demigods. "Descendants" are just a diluted likeness.
Edit: when Miyazaki said that demigod immortality is different than tarnished immortality, I think what I said above is what he meant about demigods. This is why the Erdtree faction thought the snake children were blasphemy as much as true death is a blasphemy. They're both separate from Grace. The tarnished were resurrected by Grace after having it taken to complete the turning of the Age.
You're ignoring that there used to be normal births.
@@TheSkyfolkbut when was "used to"? It still happens with spurned creatures, but I don't think it does with Demigods born from Remembrances of past Lords and Gods budded by the Tree's Grace. I edited a bit including a few things like the snake births as a blasphemy to the Erdtree.
I think all of the demigods, except for maybe the children with Rennala, were born entirely from the tree. Those 3 took their own paths to seize and discover power that hadn't been born to them.
I think the Shield of the Guilty is referencing how Marika and the GEQ were reborn as saints. It seems like Marika was killed in thorns/sin and reborn in the Tree.
This hypothesis is really impossible to put clear points on, but it's heavily supported by the Age of the Erdtree being one in which death ceased as did typical birth. Think about these ideas along with the song of the Harpy Matriarchs. Marika's flawed design is what caused the need for all of the various destructive forces to grow during the Shattering.
Would Godwyn possibly be Marika and Radagon before his hair was dyed fire-giant red? (also before the two had really schismed from one persona)
@@evelynlamoy8483 Interesting theory. Do you have any basis for it? I’ll admit there’s something weird about out Radagon and Godwyn. At first it was simply by the way Radagon looks similar to Godwyn(or what glimpses we see of him). Godwyn parallels the Nameless King figure from DS in many ways with him being the firstborn son of a ruler with the previous being ruled by Ancient Dragons whom he begins a cult with, also using Golden Lightning and manipulating the storm. I think it’s for this reason why everything surrounding Stormcaller Church is connected to Godwyn(dragon cult items and the monument detailing the routing of the dragons) yet there stands a statue of Radagon. That statue also has golden hair(all of Radagons statues have golden hair I think). The way Radagon and Godwyn are dressed is similar too and halfway into his health bar, Radagon begins to use golden spears in the style of a lightning user which is peculiar since that was Godwyn’s trademark with Golden Lightning. He teleports as lightning, which is what Godwyns death knights are able to do in the DLC(they wear the same sash/skirts) and he uses the Storm Stomp AOW.
Sorry man but you had me til you mentioned the Jar Saint theory at the end. There is zero indication that the being shoved into the jar was ever supposed to make a god or be anything more than a punishment for heathens and heretics so I will never be able to take seriously an idea that Marika was "THE Jar Saint". And theres a much more rational reason for why marika's children wouldnt have to be traditionally born, that is brought up so many times in game, and it's the fact that the Shaman bloodline is essentially Tree People. The demigods prove this even more. Miquella was becoming a tree and even growing a new body in it, malenia bloomed flowers and her children come from those flowers, Godrick "grafts" which is a plant term for fusing two plants together, marika and radagon are "petrified" more like wood than stone, theres 2 shaman women turned into wood with branches growing from them, and there are womens bodies in the trees in Enir Elim. Many plants are able to self-fertilize and have male and female organs for reproduction, like Marika/Radagon, and Miquella/Trina. Therefore, why not just self-fertilize your children if your husband is just gonna give you children that look like your horned torturers?
Timeline doesn't work. Marika's conquest of hornsent takes place at a very specific moment in time, after Godfrey is exiled and before Radagon is recalled from Raya Lucaria. Meaning Mogh and Morgott were already born, meaning Grandam curses Marika for something else.
Most likely for ascending to Godhood using the gate.
No
Me who is trying to figure out and preach how Ranni and Godwyn are twins: Imma watch this theory video actually.
I think godwyn was the child of radagon and marika