1:35 "You know we are only invisible to sensors, right? We be visible plain as day if someone looks out the Window." "Windows are structural weaknesses. Borg do not use them."
my my another ME2 fan.. that reminds me conflict between Jack and Miranda could be adapted to Seven vs B´Elanna in mess hall - y´know "borg provokes klingon klingon breaks borg nose" and then "call sickbay tell them there´s about to be a medical emergency"
@@christopherg2347 I simply can´t forget that one line - I´d hate to see her die before I get a chance to fillet her MYSELF.. simply perfect XD not to mention that it is exactly the same - Jack as B´elanna (spunky and angry) vs Miranda as Seven (perfect)..
Ah yes, an away mission. Let us bring, the Captain, the Chief of Security, the best pilot we have and the only Doctor we have on board. What could possibly go wrong?
the Captain can easily be replaced by Chakotay or Tuvok, the Chief can easily be replaced by Lt. Carey, they can easily make another Doctor Hologram and everyone seems to be a good pilot there ...
"The Hansens got overconfident." "We won't, which is why we will use their same tactic and assume it will work this time in a small fighter that would have no chance of escaping a borg tractor beam."
@@MrShedinthepeg The first rule of "Threshold" is you do not talk about "Threshold". The second rule of "Threshold" is you *do* *NOT* talk about "Threshold".
The fact that the planet only had a few hundred thousand people but had warp capable technology implies that this is a refugee planet and they spent decades if not centuries preparing to confront the Borg again which makes it all the sadder as their endeavor was in vain.
@@christopherg2347 after said random crewmate died, her thought is what if the next one is a senior staff or two? or what if its the firstborn of voyager's crew, Naomi?
Honestly, those 'crewmates' are dying/getting killed every episode. They refer to them as statistics. Never make note of funerals/memorials. The episodes have no focus on general crew members.
They even referenced it, by mentioning that "39 ships are converging on our location". Exactly the same numbers used by the Federation in Wolf 359. At least this species didnt send in groups of two's i believe.
This was one of the few times they didn't use Alice Krige as the borg queen. The one they used here is actually very good, whilst she doesn't own the role quite as well, she has the most relaxed approach to the annihilation of a species. Its really good.
@@dhinton1 A first commander should at least try, but the showrunners didn´t want that Chakotay look like he is not the nice guy. Even if that make him unprofessional.
@@ThePoshboy1 I like Chakotay he is like me :), but unprofesionel is still unprofesionel, but I still like him, I´m just saying how I see it. Be the way, what is a simp?
You would have thought that after all those years having to constantly live under the threat of imminent assimilation the bulk of the Delta quadrant species would have all come together and formed an 'Anti Borg Union' of sorts to push back against Borg aggression and it's not like the Delta quadrant lacked powerful groups (Malon, Hirogen, Krenim Imperium and The Voth to name a few).
Maybe one happened but it was squashed. Besides, we got something similar in Star Trek: Online. Hue leads a Borg resistance with Anti-Borg weapons, liberating people from the collective and fighting their primary foe.
@@puppylove3781Well, had 8472 destroyed the Borg, all life in the Delta quadrant would have been purged. The "enemy of my enemy is my friend" didn't apply in the traditional sense, that adage got flipped when Janeway realized she would have to work with the Borg
How do you propose we adapt? You need the best of breed treknobabble, like triaxiallate our shields to absorb their phaser frequencies. A few words and they are no longer a threat.
2:18 In other words: "Seven is one of us and we don't leave anyone behind!!" Good to know this long-standing military custom still exists in the 24th century.
4 ปีที่แล้ว +4
Strange, because to my TNG self's knowledge, Starfleet is not a military organisation.
@ it is an exploration organisation however it is dual purpose and operates according to naval traditions in alot of ways from the ranks, to terminology used
@ It is both a scientific organization and a military organization, What do you think a Galaxy class ship fully equipped with state of the art phasers and photon torpedoes are for?
@@LGranthamsHeir It's primary function is exploratory, during peacetime , ie outside of war and therefore most of its existence,, all operations are dedicated ultimately to this goal.
@ if its not a military then why is it always fighting wars? Why does Kirk call himself a soldier? Why do both Kirk and Picard go on military missions to retrieve military information or technology form military enemies? Why would an agreement to disarm the federation after Praxis involve mothnalling starfleet ships? Why was O'Brian involved in the Cardasian war? Why is starfleet the SOLE form of defense? If starfleet isn't a military and there are still wars and conflicts to fight then where IS the military? Is there another organization that has never been named that is responsible for this stuff and is demonstrably falling down on the job?
I wonder, when the Queen said "We're about to be destroyed", could Seven just have stalled and distracted the Queen for a few minutes, and that would be the end of the Borg? Seems unlikely, it's more reasonable to assume that this was a clumsy tactic on the Queen's part and she never had any intention to sacrifice the tactical advantage for Seven's sake, but if that was so I would have thought Seven would be too smart to fall for it.
The Borg wouldn't have died if the Queen had been killed there. Remember, they lost a Queen in First Contact and it didn't hamper them. They probably have half a dozen replacement queens at different locations around the Delta Quadrant. As to Seven being 'smart' enough to see through the ruse, remember that as an individual, she has a sense of self-preservation that would oppose any attempt to sacrifice herself, on top of which she had no emotional connection to these people. The Queen knew her 'self' would live on in the Collective, so she had nothing to lose either way.
@@JettMann8 I've always believed that the Queen was just a construct, to fulfill a need similar to that of Locutus, or Seven of Nine herself. In reality, it's just an accommodation for writing and doesn't make sense with the concept of the Borg. Without it, we can't have an evil stepmom for Seven, or someone to exchange barbs with Janeway.
@@dirdib69 A very fair assessment for what boiled down to a plot wedge. It can be fun to kinda find the little gaps to slam that wedge into and see how it works, but ultimately you're right.
@@dirdib69 it's because it's described as a hive mind, most people assume hive means something like bees. I'd venture that the Great Link would be closer to being Borg.
@@ttanza4004 The USS Endeavour managed to escape from the battle or was so badly damaged the Borg ignored it which I doubt as survivors from the USS Roosevelt and USS Excalibur were assimilated at Wolf 359 and non cannon sources state that drones boarded the USS Saratoga with specific instructions to assimilate senior officers.
@Matthew Caughey Remember that the Starfleet of that time was spread thin due to the unseen Cardassian War that had just finished up. Also they seemed to leave Earth rather poorly defended, thinking they were beyond the ability for any power they knew of to get to them and cause damage before being intercepted. They just had no clue about the Borg nor considered their power as a possibility.
@@lionlord8784 I don't think corruption is the right word. It depends on your perspective. The queen was trying to persuade her into returning to the collective.
@@michaelscampini3304 OK, but what is with the fact that 7of9 helped the borg to assimilate the planets people. How would you describe that? I am fine with "corrupt" :) If the showrunners would have guts and cunning, then they would have let 7of9 corrupted and the voyager could try to save her and than fight she and...thats enough for now from my dreams :D
@@lionlord8784 again, is corrupt the right word. The borg assimalate.... That is what they do. The borg donor show themselves as anything but hostile towards all races. Is that corrupt or pure truth? We all have needs and desires that Infuence others. Our needs are emotionally based and reflect a humanistic perspective. However, are we pure of thought and emotion?
@@michaelscampini3304 The borg and the borg queen its a different thing. The borg assimilate, yes. The borg queen tried do the same thing like with captain picard, corrupt him. Just listen to what captain Picard says to the borg queen at the end in the First Contact movie. But probably we understand something else under corruption.
@@martinm.1967 I don't know what ship survived but I have watched "THE BEST OF BOTH WORLDS PART 2" a heck of a lot of times over the years and I very much remember George Murdock's (he played Starfleet "Admiral Hanson" in the episode) line when he says "You're engagements have given us valuable time. We've mobilized 40 Starships at Wolf 359".
@@martinm.1967 its been theorized it was the USS Endeavour Captain Amasov of the Endeavour was involved in a conflict with the Borg sometime prior to 2371. After the encounter, Amasov reflected, "…It is my opinion that the Borg are as close to pure evil as any race we've ever encountered." it is unknow but the battle of wolf 359 took like in 2366 (December)..In 2373, the Endeavour "again" faced the Borg at the Battle of Sector 001.
I don't think there is just one queen. It does stand to reason though if she were to be destroyed there would be back ups. She may not even be an actual entity but just a voice that speaks through specific vessels. The combined voice of the Borg perhaps.
You have to wonder how powerful a species was to warrant two cubes and a diamond, since the Borg tend to very much favor the efficient route, hence why they've only sent lone cubes against the Federation... (am well aware the diamond wasn't necessary, but still... that's a terrifying concept)
The Borg know that there are more powerful species around - 8472 comes to mind. The Cubes are not in fear of their current enemy, but any potential enemy that might want to take a go at the Queen when she's outside of her Central Complex. There is also a different, far simpler answer: More Cubes provide more capacity for Assimilation. It's an entire species after all, you gotta need a lot of manpower to convert them all into drones.
The Borg gain the knowledge of anyone they assimilate. You're telling me one of the smartest women in Starfleet decided to use technology from the Hansens to hide from the Borg when the Borg already knew about it?🤔
@@Mxyzptlksac That's a distinct possibility. Inferior technology from a race that at that point didn't pose a threat, so why worry about it? Valid point.
I'm 50/50 with you on this one. Chakotay warned her against overconfidence which is exactly what happened. But, SOMEONE on the ship should have mentioned the same thing you did. If anything, Janeway should have dismissed such concerns to show overt overconfidence. Would make a better turnover when it blows up in their faces.
I think the point was to give us a kind of replay of Wolf 359. Except this time Locutus is smoking hot and will actually help the Borg win. Plus hotness.
What would've happened had Seven refused to offer her recommendation. Would the Queen continue to allow damage be done to the Borg cubes, how was damage to the Borg a threat to Seven when capturing Seven was on the basis of Seven valuing the lives of the Voyager crew above her own, surely a personal threat to Seven's life would not have been a viable motivation. The plot holes are extreme with this episode.
@@trl2151 How long was the way to the borg to rescue 7of9 ? and that distance x2 and after that they still can short the distance to the alpha quadrant -15 years. +2x= - ??? years for one half human. Dumb.
The transwarp coil AT BEST would have shaved years off their journey on Voyager before burning out. They would have needed SEVERAL to reach the AQ. the Federation had practically NO experience with slipstream velocity at this point .... in the novel series after Voyager's return ... that changed, and slipstream is how they returned to the Delta Quadrant.
People think that the Borg lost their threat in Voyager. The real reason why they half assed the attacks on Voyager is because Seven was always meant to be the next Borg Queen and the collective was fully confident that they would one day reassimilate her. As far as they were concerned, Voyager was just a little detour and a learning experience so they never put a concerted effort into capturing a piece that they knew would one day be theirs again
Can almost hear kates teeth grind as she says "I'm not about to let her go". In truth thats all she wanted, just because she didn't like the writer's decision to add Jeri to the cast, she treated the poor girl like sh*t. Funny thing is this was the best thing to happen to Voyager and not because of her looks but because of the possibilities/storylines it opened up by having an XB on board. Could never enjoy Voyager after learning kates vile and contemptuous attitude towards a new young actor. I expect jealousy from Kate played some part too.
The borg could see that Human integration could provide immense intelligence and accelerate their expansion of the Borg empire, Seven of nine had experience of the humans. It was a brave new world to conquer if they could travel via their conduit network to our side of the galaxy. Humans offered them the adaptability boost they needed to overcome more stronger adversaries. The bord queen never considering any obstacle to their success if they could use the humans to overcome the knowledge gap.
If I remember correctly, the cloaking device they used to physically spy on the Borg while in the cube malfunctioned and the husband was noticed. The Borg adapted to the cloaking signal, tracked the Hanson's ship, and it was game over
I think Voyager simply can't install those tech or need to much work and infrastructure for that, or maybe they don't have sufficient transwarp coils for the ship
What about the dinosaurs that left earth with the city ship....I assume they can take out the Borg they are supposed to be the greatest threat in the Delta quadrant of course we never see them again.
*NOTE:* Temporary overlooking the fact the *BORG* violated *7 of 9* physiology while she was sleeping, which to a degree is like someone having sex with your body while you're incapacitated (e.g. intoxicated, sedated, unconscious) since the *BORG* copied *7 of 9* memories & dreams the entire collective knows about who she love, hate, is afraid of, etc which is violation of her privacy, a intrusion of her intimacy = In To Me See.
This whole story unfortunately hinges on the fact that the Borg assimilated the Hansens, thus gaining knowledge on their technology, yet for some unknown reason had that ability switched off to conveniently give Voyager time to get up to some shenanigans.
I'm curious about something... The Excelsior was supposedly a trans-warp ship. I first saw Excelsior in whichever Star Trek movie Sulu comments about it. So, what happened?
There is no cannon reason that Roddenberry or any other writer/producer stated. It is generally assumed that the experiment failed. Another theory is that it was no "trans-warp" as TNG knew it but rather the transition from TOS warp speeds to TNG warp speeds. Again the why was never stated. Also there have been at least 3 different variations on what "trans-warp" is in Start Trek so it may also just be a catch-all phrase for any TFL drive that is beyond a normal warp drive. The Star Trek 3-4 "trans-warp" seemed to involve transporters, another was effectively a "hyper drive" or "wormhole drive" and the 3rd (and most advanced) was like going to normal warp after being compressed to the size of a peanut by gravitic phenomenon. And this is aside from "slip-space" which did make a distinct appearance.
I've an idea; the 23rd century Federation engineers might have gotten close to achieving it but the actual implementation of a transwarp capable fleet was impractical or unfeasible; their ships could get up to it but maybe couldn't maintain it, and after the Khitomer Accords, there was not a major need for a fleet that could rapidly respond to threats along the Klingon border. The Federation's transwarp project fell by the wayside and was never revisited as a result. Why do something impossible when you've got something that works just fine, after all? But the Borg are immensely knowledgeable. They didn't have the same concerns as the Kirk-era Federation; they ruthlessly pursued technological advancements and prowess (look how they tried to harness Omega; they destroyed an entire star system and hundreds of thousands of drones were annihilated when their Omega particle destabilized after a fraction of a second).
@@HHopebringer That would make sense if the economic considerations of said Federation were anything like ours today. Duly keep in mind just how much R&D the Federation does on a yearly basis and that they could fund something like the Genesis project. More likely its a situation like the Railgun. Tesla knew all the science he needed to make such a weapon but the manufacturing and energy generation methods simply did not exist for almost another century. No technology exists in isolation.
So if they could adapt a delta flyer with transearp coil. Couldn't they have sent some crew in a adapted delta fly to the Alfa quadrant to let Starfleet know what's going on andtry fit a bigger ship with transwarp or even send the delta flyer back with schematics of upgrading voyager to travel faster. Something along those lines.
I can't remember what Episode it was (it might have been this one) but at the end they did use the Transwarp coil to get away from the Borg and it allowed them to travel some 5000 LY's before the coil burnt out. There was no storyline reason given but they couldn't just build their own (given the complexities around Transwarp and the lack of available resources this makes sense given Voyagers situation) and could only used stolen Transwarp coils and in latter episodes they do try and steal some more but ultimately it never worked out (lets face it Voyager was a 7 year series so the writers couldn't just spam these coils otherwise they would have finished the the show in Season 5 or 6).
The Borg were never consistent from appearance to appearance even back in the TNG days, they were literally different every single time they popped up. They went from an insectoid hivemind parasite race to a race of indifferent cyborgs that according to Q had zero interest in federation technology or its people. Then they changed again to apparently having an interest in ONLY the technology and people of the Federation and other races. Tng even started the ball rolling on making them a less deadly threat, originally they were entirely unstoppable, then all of a sudden there's a fleet of ships that can reliably pick a cube apart. Even though this doesn't automatically make the federation vastly superior to every other power in the quadrant. And its entirely necessary really, if they were left as intended they would either destroy the federation and end the franchise or become yet another forgotten overly powerful foe among so many. If they are driven to destroy you and you cant defeat them then then your death is inevitable and thats not really conducive to running an open ended series of shows is it?
@@DrewLSsix LOL!!.isn't that what I just said? "Overuse and bad writing can ruin one of the most compelling antagonist races in SF History." Why not just leave them as the hive mind going through the galaxy doing what they do without some other more humanistic type of reasoning. Why not just leave them in the mode that they do what they do because it is what they are.
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1:35 "You know we are only invisible to sensors, right? We be visible plain as day if someone looks out the Window."
"Windows are structural weaknesses. Borg do not use them."
"Approach the hull at these coordinates."
(Paris makes an imitating gesture, Janeway stares him down)
"Access achieved; we may proceed."
my my another ME2 fan.. that reminds me conflict between Jack and Miranda could be adapted to Seven vs B´Elanna in mess hall - y´know "borg provokes klingon klingon breaks borg nose" and then "call sickbay tell them there´s about to be a medical emergency"
@@lexsmith8689 Perfect woman vs anger management issues?
It does fit both setting 🙂
@@christopherg2347 I simply can´t forget that one line - I´d hate to see her die before I get a chance to fillet her MYSELF.. simply perfect XD not to mention that it is exactly the same - Jack as B´elanna (spunky and angry) vs Miranda as Seven (perfect)..
no but they do have cameras like any other starship ie a window lol
Ah yes, an away mission. Let us bring, the Captain, the Chief of Security, the best pilot we have and the only Doctor we have on board. What could possibly go wrong?
the pilot is also the only medic... 🤪
@@dogkungfu8510 my thoughts too. The entire of voyager is currently incapacitated by food poisoning
@@ondank if they'd sent Neelix with them that wouldn't happen
What’s funny is the fact that if by some chance these 4 die and Voyager just kept going home, a certain someone will still remain an ensign 🤷♂️
the Captain can easily be replaced by Chakotay or Tuvok, the Chief can easily be replaced by Lt. Carey, they can easily make another Doctor Hologram and everyone seems to be a good pilot there ...
"They were overconfident"
"I'm confident we won't be!"
there’s no way of knowing whether somebody is overconfident until they fail.
"The Hansens got overconfident."
"We won't, which is why we will use their same tactic and assume it will work this time in a small fighter that would have no chance of escaping a borg tractor beam."
Chakotay: "They became overconfident"
Janeway: "The Borg haven't seen anything yet!"
I'm surprised Paris and Janeway were willing to go on another transwarp journey together considering what happened last time.
We don't talk about... *that* .
Good one!
What happens at transwarp, stays at transwarp.
@@MrShedinthepeg The first rule of "Threshold" is you do not talk about "Threshold".
The second rule of "Threshold" is you *do* *NOT* talk about "Threshold".
We do not talk about _that) , and if _that_ was, _that_ was not transwarp, that was warp 10/infinite velocity.
The fact that the planet only had a few hundred thousand people but had warp capable technology implies that this is a refugee planet and they spent decades if not centuries preparing to confront the Borg again which makes it all the sadder as their endeavor was in vain.
I wonder if Janeway would have launched an all out rescue mission like this if some random crewmember got abducted instead of Seven
*Would* some random crewmember have been abducted?
@@benjaminoechsli1941 if it is the unlucky redshirt of the week? lol
Ask the aliens in "Scientific Method" on how far Janeway goes for random crewmates.
@@christopherg2347 after said random crewmate died, her thought is what if the next one is a senior staff or two? or what if its the firstborn of voyager's crew, Naomi?
Honestly, those 'crewmates' are dying/getting killed every episode. They refer to them as statistics. Never make note of funerals/memorials. The episodes have no focus on general crew members.
They assimilate entire worlds.... and we fall back.
3:32 always saddens me that fleet engaging the Borg always remind me of Wolf 359
They even referenced it, by mentioning that "39 ships are converging on our location". Exactly the same numbers used by the Federation in Wolf 359. At least this species didnt send in groups of two's i believe.
This was one of the few times they didn't use Alice Krige as the borg queen. The one they used here is actually very good, whilst she doesn't own the role quite as well, she has the most relaxed approach to the annihilation of a species. Its really good.
1:55 Shouldn't Chakotay warned Janeway about Starfleet regulation that Captains shouldn't lead an away team here?
If this episode wouldn´t be so dumb, then he would do that. :(
Probably.
but he knows his Captain ..... so he knows that she wasn't going to let this go.
@@dhinton1 A first commander should at least try, but the showrunners didn´t want that Chakotay look like he is not the nice guy. Even if that make him unprofessional.
@@lionlord8784 Chakotay is a simp confirmed.
@@ThePoshboy1 I like Chakotay he is like me :), but unprofesionel is still unprofesionel, but I still like him, I´m just saying how I see it. Be the way, what is a simp?
"I was thinking the same thing".... she's so evil...
You would have thought that after all those years having to constantly live under the threat of imminent assimilation the bulk of the Delta quadrant species would have all come together and formed an 'Anti Borg Union' of sorts to push back against Borg aggression and it's not like the Delta quadrant lacked powerful groups (Malon, Hirogen, Krenim Imperium and The Voth to name a few).
Maybe one happened but it was squashed.
Besides, we got something similar in Star Trek: Online. Hue leads a Borg resistance with Anti-Borg weapons, liberating people from the collective and fighting their primary foe.
You don't need "anti-borg" weapons to kick their ass. Anyone hear of Species 8472?
@@puppylove3781 Voyager gave borg the ability to kill Species 8472 ships
@@puppylove3781Well, had 8472 destroyed the Borg, all life in the Delta quadrant would have been purged. The "enemy of my enemy is my friend" didn't apply in the traditional sense, that adage got flipped when Janeway realized she would have to work with the Borg
This was a CLASSIC episode!
It had good moments but the storyline was absurd.
How do you propose we adapt? You need the best of breed treknobabble, like triaxiallate our shields to absorb their phaser frequencies. A few words and they are no longer a threat.
Is that where the title of this video comes from?
Dude, keep these coming!!!
give it time; he always posts 1 episode per week
What isnthe point are these clips improved quality remastered visuals or audio or something?
2:18 In other words: "Seven is one of us and we don't leave anyone behind!!"
Good to know this long-standing military custom still exists in the 24th century.
Strange, because to my TNG self's knowledge, Starfleet is not a military organisation.
@ it is an exploration organisation however it is dual purpose and operates according to naval traditions in alot of ways from the ranks, to terminology used
@ It is both a scientific organization and a military organization, What do you think a Galaxy class ship fully equipped with state of the art phasers and photon torpedoes are for?
@@LGranthamsHeir It's primary function is exploratory, during peacetime , ie outside of war and therefore most of its existence,, all operations are dedicated ultimately to this goal.
@ if its not a military then why is it always fighting wars?
Why does Kirk call himself a soldier? Why do both Kirk and Picard go on military missions to retrieve military information or technology form military enemies? Why would an agreement to disarm the federation after Praxis involve mothnalling starfleet ships?
Why was O'Brian involved in the Cardasian war? Why is starfleet the SOLE form of defense?
If starfleet isn't a military and there are still wars and conflicts to fight then where IS the military? Is there another organization that has never been named that is responsible for this stuff and is demonstrably falling down on the job?
When Voyager was good, it was VERY good.
I wonder, when the Queen said "We're about to be destroyed", could Seven just have stalled and distracted the Queen for a few minutes, and that would be the end of the Borg? Seems unlikely, it's more reasonable to assume that this was a clumsy tactic on the Queen's part and she never had any intention to sacrifice the tactical advantage for Seven's sake, but if that was so I would have thought Seven would be too smart to fall for it.
The Borg wouldn't have died if the Queen had been killed there. Remember, they lost a Queen in First Contact and it didn't hamper them. They probably have half a dozen replacement queens at different locations around the Delta Quadrant. As to Seven being 'smart' enough to see through the ruse, remember that as an individual, she has a sense of self-preservation that would oppose any attempt to sacrifice herself, on top of which she had no emotional connection to these people. The Queen knew her 'self' would live on in the Collective, so she had nothing to lose either way.
There are multiple Queens, I believe they are a controlling unit for each unimatrix, and there are a LOT of those.
@@JettMann8 I've always believed that the Queen was just a construct, to fulfill a need similar to that of Locutus, or Seven of Nine herself. In reality, it's just an accommodation for writing and doesn't make sense with the concept of the Borg. Without it, we can't have an evil stepmom for Seven, or someone to exchange barbs with Janeway.
@@dirdib69 A very fair assessment for what boiled down to a plot wedge. It can be fun to kinda find the little gaps to slam that wedge into and see how it works, but ultimately you're right.
@@dirdib69 it's because it's described as a hive mind, most people assume hive means something like bees. I'd venture that the Great Link would be closer to being Borg.
39 vessels, same as at Wolf 359 if I remember correctly
There were actually 40 Starships at Wolf 359.
39 of them were Destroyed.
@@ttanza4004 The USS Endeavour managed to escape from the battle or was so badly damaged the Borg ignored it which I doubt as survivors from the USS Roosevelt and USS Excalibur were assimilated at Wolf 359 and non cannon sources state that drones boarded the USS Saratoga with specific instructions to assimilate senior officers.
39 of their vessels. A nod to Wolf 359.
@Matthew Caughey Remember that the Starfleet of that time was spread thin due to the unseen Cardassian War that had just finished up. Also they seemed to leave Earth rather poorly defended, thinking they were beyond the ability for any power they knew of to get to them and cause damage before being intercepted. They just had no clue about the Borg nor considered their power as a possibility.
I think the queen was trying to desensitize seven into assimilating others.
Of course. She tried to corrupt 7of9. With partially succes :(
@@lionlord8784 I don't think corruption is the right word. It depends on your perspective. The queen was trying to persuade her into returning to the collective.
@@michaelscampini3304 OK, but what is with the fact that 7of9 helped the borg to assimilate the planets people. How would you describe that? I am fine with "corrupt" :) If the showrunners would have guts and cunning, then they would have let 7of9 corrupted and the voyager could try to save her and than fight she and...thats enough for now from my dreams :D
@@lionlord8784 again, is corrupt the right word. The borg assimalate.... That is what they do. The borg donor show themselves as anything but hostile towards all races. Is that corrupt or pure truth? We all have needs and desires that Infuence others. Our needs are emotionally based and reflect a humanistic perspective. However, are we pure of thought and emotion?
@@michaelscampini3304 The borg and the borg queen its a different thing. The borg assimilate, yes. The borg queen tried do the same thing like with captain picard, corrupt him. Just listen to what captain Picard says to the borg queen at the end in the First Contact movie. But probably we understand something else under corruption.
My absolute Favorite Star Trek Episode with Scorpion (Both of Voyager)
Yeah, "Scorpion" and "Dark Frontier" were a couple of _Voyager's_ most memorable episodes.
Ues
I love Voyager more than any other star trek series.
I'm a DS9 guy, myself. I do appreciate the series though and did thoroughly enjoy it. Great cast.
Mine is TNG and then Voyager
39 vessels...reminiscent of Wolf 359. Watched this episode a hundred times, but didn't notice it before...
There were actually 40 Starships at Wolf 359 and 39 of them were Destroyed.
@@ttanza4004 which one did survive?
@@martinm.1967 I don't know what ship survived but I have watched "THE BEST OF BOTH WORLDS PART 2" a heck of a lot of times over the years and I very much remember George Murdock's (he played Starfleet "Admiral Hanson" in the episode) line when he says "You're engagements have given us valuable time. We've mobilized 40 Starships at Wolf 359".
@@ttanza4004 Indeed
@@martinm.1967 its been theorized it was the USS Endeavour Captain Amasov of the Endeavour was involved in a conflict with the Borg sometime prior to 2371. After the encounter, Amasov reflected, "…It is my opinion that the Borg are as close to pure evil as any race we've ever encountered." it is unknow but the battle of wolf 359 took like in 2366 (December)..In 2373, the Endeavour "again" faced the Borg at the Battle of Sector 001.
Thanks man, really enjoying it
Was the Queen attempting to groom Seven to be her successor?
According to some resources, yes: Seven was one of several "reserves" the Queen had in mind, in the event she were truly destroyed.
I am guessing in her eyes seven of nine was or is like a daughter to her.
I don't think there is just one queen. It does stand to reason though if she were to be destroyed there would be back ups. She may not even be an actual entity but just a voice that speaks through specific vessels. The combined voice of the Borg perhaps.
Nah, she was toying with the idea until Jurati came along. Then it was game on
You have to wonder how powerful a species was to warrant two cubes and a diamond, since the Borg tend to very much favor the efficient route, hence why they've only sent lone cubes against the Federation... (am well aware the diamond wasn't necessary, but still... that's a terrifying concept)
The Borg know that there are more powerful species around - 8472 comes to mind. The Cubes are not in fear of their current enemy, but any potential enemy that might want to take a go at the Queen when she's outside of her Central Complex.
There is also a different, far simpler answer: More Cubes provide more capacity for Assimilation. It's an entire species after all, you gotta need a lot of manpower to convert them all into drones.
More of these please!
i would have loved to have seen a fleet of ships from another species
The Borg gain the knowledge of anyone they assimilate. You're telling me one of the smartest women in Starfleet decided to use technology from the Hansens to hide from the Borg when the Borg already knew about it?🤔
Some of it was stealth technology, the Borg probably didn’t find it relevant. Arrogance was a weakness
@@Mxyzptlksac That's a distinct possibility. Inferior technology from a race that at that point didn't pose a threat, so why worry about it? Valid point.
I'm 50/50 with you on this one. Chakotay warned her against overconfidence which is exactly what happened. But, SOMEONE on the ship should have mentioned the same thing you did. If anything, Janeway should have dismissed such concerns to show overt overconfidence. Would make a better turnover when it blows up in their faces.
Dropa Dragon Queen of the collective!
Not about to let her go in other words she doesn't abandon a member of her crew. Good to see her be a military commander a true one anyway.
39 ships attacked their borg ship - starfleet also tried that number.
40
It was 40 with Starfleet. 39 ships got destroyed. This is an ode to that battle.
4:42 Bio Extraction Process? I don't like the sound of that.
AKA medical operations without anestesia. Very painfull.
@@blawson3603 “that is how the Borg do...”
Is what had done to borg queen? Almost all her body is robot.
@@blawson3603 And the Borg have enchanced Seven's voice too.
Note the exact number of ships the aliens sent out against the Borg.
I think the point was to give us a kind of replay of Wolf 359. Except this time Locutus is smoking hot and will actually help the Borg win. Plus hotness.
What would've happened had Seven refused to offer her recommendation. Would the Queen continue to allow damage be done to the Borg cubes, how was damage to the Borg a threat to Seven when capturing Seven was on the basis of Seven valuing the lives of the Voyager crew above her own, surely a personal threat to Seven's life would not have been a viable motivation. The plot holes are extreme with this episode.
The queen can simply activate another body and let seven be destroyed
Waaaaaiiiit, they had a delta flyer with transwarp?? Couldn't they just use that to connect voyager to earth. Like a super speedy courier..
Of course they could that at least tri, but NO, they don´t even thought of that. Just another plot hole :( Sometimes they are so DUMB :(
@@trl2151 How long was the way to the borg to rescue 7of9 ? and that distance x2 and after that they still can short the distance to the alpha quadrant -15 years. +2x= - ??? years for one half human. Dumb.
@@lionlord8784 Again, the coil wouldn't have lasted that long...
@@juancalderon5381 OK, but they haven´t even try and why? We all know why, right? .) :)
The transwarp coil AT BEST would have shaved years off their journey on Voyager before burning out. They would have needed SEVERAL to reach the AQ.
the Federation had practically NO experience with slipstream velocity at this point .... in the novel series after Voyager's return ... that changed, and slipstream is how they returned to the Delta Quadrant.
I never thought about this before but Janeway takes Tom and the Doctor. That is literally Voyager's entire medical staff.
I am sorry but this seen with the queen 👸just reminds you how dangerous the Borg really are……
Anyone wonder how a hologram can get motion sickness when they have organs to speak of
@Frey sorry I meant no organs t speak of
❤️VOY❤️
best trek ever
You are the borg, you tell me....
The damn whispering. Drives me crazy.
did the Doctor just tell Paris to "get gud"
Ironic. Both of these ladies played love interests of Agent Gibbs in NCIS
This episode proves 7 can be the next borg queen
but in the books Janeway becomes the Borg Queen
The borg Queen.. She's no Alice Krige
If not for Mike Johnson I would be sifting through dishonest torrent cites for trek!!
Isn't there a streaming site that allows for legal watching of Voyager?
Netflix exists.
@@FireLordJohn3191 netflix sucks!!!
Yep…..track the Borg using already assimilated technology
Overconfidence was Janeway’s middle name.
"we won't make the same mistake" --> and she made exactly the same mistake by using the exact same outdated technlogy
Kate Mulgrew - attractive by appearances or by authority...
People think that the Borg lost their threat in Voyager. The real reason why they half assed the attacks on Voyager is because Seven was always meant to be the next Borg Queen and the collective was fully confident that they would one day reassimilate her. As far as they were concerned, Voyager was just a little detour and a learning experience so they never put a concerted effort into capturing a piece that they knew would one day be theirs again
GO MIKEY‼️‼️‼️
to be honest I think Seven is really cool she was also cool on star trek picard as well to
Yea Grandpa Hanson especiel was OVERCONFIDENT. Wolf 359 is his gambit and WORST TACTICAL DECISIONS EVER.
Can almost hear kates teeth grind as she says "I'm not about to let her go". In truth thats all she wanted, just because she didn't like the writer's decision to add Jeri to the cast, she treated the poor girl like sh*t. Funny thing is this was the best thing to happen to Voyager and not because of her looks but because of the possibilities/storylines it opened up by having an XB on board. Could never enjoy Voyager after learning kates vile and contemptuous attitude towards a new young actor. I expect jealousy from Kate played some part too.
The borg could see that Human integration could provide immense intelligence and accelerate their expansion of the Borg empire, Seven of nine had experience of the humans. It was a brave new world to conquer if they could travel via their conduit network to our side of the galaxy. Humans offered them the adaptability boost they needed to overcome more stronger adversaries. The bord queen never considering any obstacle to their success if they could use the humans to overcome the knowledge gap.
how did the hansens piss off the borg
They took them lightly...
The Borg don't like to get spied.
If I remember correctly, the cloaking device they used to physically spy on the Borg while in the cube malfunctioned and the husband was noticed. The Borg adapted to the cloaking signal, tracked the Hanson's ship, and it was game over
Captian Janeway should have equipped Voyager with this "Trans-Warp" core. They could get help from the Federation and return to rescue Seven.
I think Voyager simply can't install those tech or need to much work and infrastructure for that, or maybe they don't have sufficient transwarp coils for the ship
What about the dinosaurs that left earth with the city ship....I assume they can take out the Borg they are supposed to be the greatest threat in the Delta quadrant of course we never see them again.
*NOTE:* Temporary overlooking the fact the *BORG* violated *7 of 9* physiology while she was sleeping, which to a degree is like someone having sex with your body while you're incapacitated (e.g. intoxicated, sedated, unconscious) since the *BORG* copied *7 of 9* memories & dreams the entire collective knows about who she love, hate, is afraid of, etc which is violation of her privacy, a intrusion of her intimacy = In To Me See.
@John Doe *Don't say that to 7 of 9 to avoid her viewing you as racist & saying something sarcastic back to you for making her mad. Okay?*
This whole story unfortunately hinges on the fact that the Borg assimilated the Hansens, thus gaining knowledge on their technology, yet for some unknown reason had that ability switched off to conveniently give Voyager time to get up to some shenanigans.
2:23 Batman?
It's true. lol
right before the lightning
She was good as the Queen, but not as awesome as Alice Krige
Other than the slight difference in voice, I really couldn't tell the two apart
You look reluctant to watch people get chopped up and fitted with machines
How Iroinic since Kate mulgrew wouldn't miss Jeri Ryan in real life!
I'm curious about something... The Excelsior was supposedly a trans-warp ship. I first saw Excelsior in whichever Star Trek movie Sulu comments about it. So, what happened?
There is no cannon reason that Roddenberry or any other writer/producer stated. It is generally assumed that the experiment failed. Another theory is that it was no "trans-warp" as TNG knew it but rather the transition from TOS warp speeds to TNG warp speeds. Again the why was never stated. Also there have been at least 3 different variations on what "trans-warp" is in Start Trek so it may also just be a catch-all phrase for any TFL drive that is beyond a normal warp drive. The Star Trek 3-4 "trans-warp" seemed to involve transporters, another was effectively a "hyper drive" or "wormhole drive" and the 3rd (and most advanced) was like going to normal warp after being compressed to the size of a peanut by gravitic phenomenon. And this is aside from "slip-space" which did make a distinct appearance.
I've an idea; the 23rd century Federation engineers might have gotten close to achieving it but the actual implementation of a transwarp capable fleet was impractical or unfeasible; their ships could get up to it but maybe couldn't maintain it, and after the Khitomer Accords, there was not a major need for a fleet that could rapidly respond to threats along the Klingon border. The Federation's transwarp project fell by the wayside and was never revisited as a result. Why do something impossible when you've got something that works just fine, after all?
But the Borg are immensely knowledgeable. They didn't have the same concerns as the Kirk-era Federation; they ruthlessly pursued technological advancements and prowess (look how they tried to harness Omega; they destroyed an entire star system and hundreds of thousands of drones were annihilated when their Omega particle destabilized after a fraction of a second).
@@HHopebringer That would make sense if the economic considerations of said Federation were anything like ours today. Duly keep in mind just how much R&D the Federation does on a yearly basis and that they could fund something like the Genesis project.
More likely its a situation like the Railgun. Tesla knew all the science he needed to make such a weapon but the manufacturing and energy generation methods simply did not exist for almost another century. No technology exists in isolation.
There's one school of thought on the subject that the Transwarp tests on the Excelsior led to the rewriting of the warp scale in TNG.
Also warp speeds get a bit weird. i think some TOS vessels were able to reach warp 14, and yet later series establish warp 10=infinite speed.
So if they could adapt a delta flyer with transearp coil. Couldn't they have sent some crew in a adapted delta fly to the Alfa quadrant to let Starfleet know what's going on andtry fit a bigger ship with transwarp or even send the delta flyer back with schematics of upgrading voyager to travel faster. Something along those lines.
I can't remember what Episode it was (it might have been this one) but at the end they did use the Transwarp coil to get away from the Borg and it allowed them to travel some 5000 LY's before the coil burnt out. There was no storyline reason given but they couldn't just build their own (given the complexities around Transwarp and the lack of available resources this makes sense given Voyagers situation) and could only used stolen Transwarp coils and in latter episodes they do try and steal some more but ultimately it never worked out (lets face it Voyager was a 7 year series so the writers couldn't just spam these coils otherwise they would have finished the the show in Season 5 or 6).
Lamed Vav!
Cheisa di gesu cristo di Santi si ultimate giprne
J
Mt Hancock
I miss watching great Trek like this. I hate the garbage that's on now.
Makes me wonder how old is the Borg Queen?
GO MIKEY‼️‼️‼️
Janeway was a terrible captain
Janeway's plot armor is so THICK and impenetrable. I can't believe this show lasted 7 seasons.
650
Funny how overuse and bad writing can ruin one of the most compelling antagonist races in SF history.
The Borg were never consistent from appearance to appearance even back in the TNG days, they were literally different every single time they popped up.
They went from an insectoid hivemind parasite race to a race of indifferent cyborgs that according to Q had zero interest in federation technology or its people. Then they changed again to apparently having an interest in ONLY the technology and people of the Federation and other races.
Tng even started the ball rolling on making them a less deadly threat, originally they were entirely unstoppable, then all of a sudden there's a fleet of ships that can reliably pick a cube apart. Even though this doesn't automatically make the federation vastly superior to every other power in the quadrant.
And its entirely necessary really, if they were left as intended they would either destroy the federation and end the franchise or become yet another forgotten overly powerful foe among so many. If they are driven to destroy you and you cant defeat them then then your death is inevitable and thats not really conducive to running an open ended series of shows is it?
@@DrewLSsix LOL!!.isn't that what I just said? "Overuse and bad writing can ruin one of the most compelling antagonist races in SF History." Why not just leave them as the hive mind going through the galaxy doing what they do without some other more humanistic type of reasoning. Why not just leave them in the mode that they do what they do because it is what they are.
147th comment
Kate Mulgrew is such a bad actress
and you’ve apparently never seen anyone act well in your life. were you born this morning, babe, or are you just being silly?
I just wish Beijing Biden would have had the same philosophy as Janeway.
trans woman lol
Why I would be a little bit easier and you have the