This was a great video. Well presented and stated. I would add just a bit to clicker presses. Full disclosure, my company sells these in the US. - We can step down machines to 1Ph 220V or 110V for the smaller (10-15 ton) machines. - For cutting boards, try Nylon, its more expensive but lasts much longer. (x2 cost but x4 longevity) - For dies, steel rules dies are pretty cost competitive and the company we partner with normally has a few day turnaround. Some other disadvantages to be aware of: - Clickers require hydraulic oil which can leak from the rear side panels if you don't have a full-face gasket - Because these are all now made in China the ability to find parts for them can be somewhat difficult (Normally just button contactors and a spider bushing) - If you use the pressure mode on the machine you can see different cutting depths with different leather weights. This can lead to your board wearing out a bit faster. Glad to see this content on TH-cam and glad to have so many skilled creators willing to help educate people. Good work!
I just purchased a Little Wonder clicker press a few months ago and I’m in heaven. I used Adobe Illustrator to prototype on paper prior to having the dies made. After 3 years of hand cutting everything and hammering in my makers mark, I am so happy every time I pull the lever down! The Glow Forge is coming eventually!!!
As a hobbyist, I find the laser a better solution. I’m rarely doing repeated designs that could justify the cost of clicker dies. But with the laser, I can easily tweak a design each time I make it. Even with something as simple as my logo, I can resize it for each product - something that would be very expensive if I had to have several stamps made. In my case, I settled for the ubiquitous K40 laser because it was so inexpensive but it is not for the faint of heart. They are only useful if you are willing to spend as much time fixing/finessing your laser as doing your leatherwork. Still, they’re functional once set up properly.
I already answered this on facebook, but couldn't wait to watch the video to see if you agreed and what your reasoning was...petty much same thoughts as I had...though I'm just a hobbyist when it comes to leather, so I make cardboard or aluminum templates and cut my pieces out the old fashioned way lol...awesome video as always man!
I have both and prototype on the laser with eva foam to test the sewing. Then I make the clicker dies on the laser to cut leather. Fun fact - 3mm ply cuts real easy on even small lasers and laminating a stack with glue is super easy to do with bulldog clips or clothes pegs.
After reading through many of the comments here, it looks as though I'm in the minority. As for being creative, I can always cut by hand. So, any new projects I'm prototyping, cutting out a one-off just isn't that big of a deal. I use Illustrator for making both my leather patterns and my clicker die patterns. I've been using a homemade 20 ton clicker press for about the past 1-1/2 years and I couldn't tell you how much time it has saved me when cutting out holsters. We're talking cutting out 60-100 two-piece holsters at a time. That would take all day (or more) with a laser cutter. Same job on my home press is like an hour. With a swing arm press, I could cut that down to about 30-40 minutes. I'd have to go with the swing arm press if I had to choose only one.
Thank you for the interesting discussion. I mostly watched to get your thoughts on the Glowforge. The thing that turns me off about all laser cutters is that they produce smoke and/or toxic gas. That's a really hard Con to get around. I think for now I'll have to continue prototyping on my 3D printer and CNC machine, and then send the files off to someone else who has a laser cutter or find a better way to do the production runs.
What I would pick would depend on what I was doing. I work in wood, metal and plastics. Soon leather! I’ve had a laser for years. It is insanely versatile, can be inexpensive and is a good entry into computer design and production as it’s 2D. When it comes to making things there is never an end to the equipment and tools that you can desire!
Oh..... my..... goodness!!! The price of the satchel dies literally had my mouth on the floor. But I guess if it works hats off to you. It will probably be several years before I even contemplate getting a clicker so I dont have to worry about that yet haha. BTW almost all the tools i have are the ones you recommend. I.e, sinabroks pricking irons, palosanto edgers, and the like. Thanks for your great business examples. You were the one who inspired me.
I have a small diode laser cutter. Cheap entry point. It will only cut thin leather. But I use it to draw may patterns on the leather. This gives me a good line to follow and mark holes when I'm cutting and punching. I also case the leather before I do it. This reduces the soot and charring. It also helps the leather lay flat which is important. I have been wanting a bigger laser that will cut leather and I have wanted a clicker. I think this video helped me decide. Thanks!
You were talking about your Glow-forge brand of Laser having a smaller bed. I felt they had too small a bed as well, sooooo, I took a chance and purchased a 100 watt 24 x 36 bed laser from China. Price and import fees totaled $3457.00. After installing and playing with it, I really think I scored. Trying to put together a review of it (pros and cons) for youtube. It will be my first video for my channel. It's a lot harder than it looks. Don't see how you guys do nit so consistently. I'll let you know when its up.
I’ve been using my glowforge for a few years now in my leather work. I will say, I only use veg tan Herman Oak and I have lots of soot to deal with. I score the stitch holes and go back and cut them with my punch. I’ll get a piece of W&C and try it out. (I also have a 4 ton mighty wonder, it’s very useful.)
I use it for cutting leather for certain items and for prototyping new designs with leather. I rarely use it for cardboard or paper. I also use it to cut acrylic patterns.
thanks for making this video, I've been trying to decide which direction to go. I think Laser Cutter is the best direction for me. I do more than just leather work, so I can see the versatility being a bigger advantage.
Thanks for another great video Ryan! I'd tend to say that a clicker press is a next level when you're approaching mass production. As long as you have the money to buy a laser cutter and that you can use it to make your products, which is my case, you're fine. But when you have to do more, and faster, a clicker press is most likely the best option. I had an order of 500 keyfobs once, and with this scenario, I wonder what the best would be. I was able to cut 20 keyfobs at a time with my Glowforge, and with a clicker press I would have to stay right in front of the machine and do 500 manual actions. So to me, if you have the money to buy a laser cutter and you don't do mass production (yet), go for it, and when your business is more mature get a clicker press to speed up mass production.
So true! It depends on what your situation is. Right now design is super important for me personally. But once that design is finalized, the clicker comes in super useful.
with my metal fabrication background and knowing where to get those pre sharpened steel strips they make dies out of. id go with the clicker and make my own dies. =)
The only true tip the scale deciding factor for me to pick clicker press over laser cutter would be that if I made a DIY clicker press I could use it to cut, stamp, set fasteners rather than using a hammer or another specialty tool made just for fasteners etc., but if I'm not doing a DIY clicker press I would choose laser though the bed size is my biggest issue too like you said, Time is money and because of that you can really save way more time through speed of designs and even on a glow forge you can have it cut several shapes at one time while you prepare other projects or steps to that project, clicker presses you have to do one section at a time and you can't leave it to do other stuff to prepare for the next steps in your projects. Because of this multi shape option if you needed to you could even work on several smaller projects all at one time too. But as I get started in leather working it will all have to be done by hand the old fashioned way.
Thanks for the info! All makes sense. Seems it comes down to the combo of your individual needs, desire or not to design more and cost. For my needs, I’d go with the clicker press. But I can see why you would choose laser. 👌🏾
Yea… it’s all about what you do the most. The Clicker is awesome for cranking out work. The laser is awesome for prototyping and design. Thanks for the comment!
Another option is a die cut machine (like Cricut or Brother) it's has the same drawback on size that a lazer has but without the danger of cutting pvc and chrome tan leather because it's using a blade insted of burning. it's also a bit cheaper then a lazer but don't just buy a particular brand without doing research because some brands like cricut will try and lock you into there brand.
So cutting chrome tanned leather isnt recommended. What about etching on chrome tanned leather? Is it the same thing just not as much toxic gas as cutting?
I’ve been using my glowforge for a few years now in my leather work. I will say, I only use veg tan Herman Oak and I have lots of soot to deal with. I score the stitch holes and go back and cut them with my punch. I’ll get a piece of W&C and try it out. (I also have a 4 ton mighty wonder, it’s very useful.)
Epilog laser cutter/engraver because they don't require you to have an internet connection in order to use their machines. They have all the same features of a glowforge plus more. They are made in the USA from start to finish. Meaning, you're helping to support your own country instead of Communist China. Instead of exhausting the smoke to the outside world, you can use a filtration box. Especially important for the cancer causing emissions of certain types of materials you're cutting or engraving.
Sure, if you have $10k for their cheapest machine. I can't justify starting a leathercraft business using such an expensive tool. Only recommended for those people well established, I would say.
Lasercutter for sure but it is totally not leave and forget, those can catch fire, already happened to me once cutting mdf, just word of caution to people making stuff, also there are more affordable options that have bigger beds than glowforge and lightscribe is an awesome software for these options
I find Corel Draw much easier to use than illustrator. I've used it on vector drawings going back over 20 years.. I believe it was coreldraw4 at that time and that still works perfect. It cost a fraction as much and you don't need the newest version. And none of that online crap. You actually own the program.
I'm going to have to say after watching this .. For sure the laser because of the type of work im doing i think it would be most benefical esp in customization work and as you said as a lover of design it can't be beat but i do plan on getting both because I love chrome tan and i had no idea you couldn't laser it! Thank you for that! The laser will also allow for designing and testing diecuts so again can't go wrong with the laser.
I have used the glowforge for leather project before and it just isn’t the same feel. I would say for production go with the clicker right? I guess if you are constantly coming out with new designs the laser would be nice but it doesn’t compare to the speed of the clicker.
I would choose the laser. I’m a retired graphic artist, so the learning curve would not need too steep. Also I don’t think at this point that high volume would be an issue.
Hello Ryan, thank you for another great video! So I have been using a clicker press for years, and I finally bought the GlowForge. I have one question, what masking paper do you use, if you have a link that would be very helpful. Thank you sir!
Watching this, I'm going to look to see if you have a video on a drag knife cnc machine. Been looking at those as well. Pairing the cnc with a vac table. Still, it's all $$$
I think the versatility of the glowforge gives it the edge. And the "low setup cost" of not having to buy dies is an important factor. That being said, I'd be happy to own either at this point 😆. Thanks for the video as always!
@@LittleKingGoodshow do you clean the leather after the cutting? Especially the stitching holes? I cut it before but thread is getting messy while stitching.
I think it also comes down a lot to what you are making. The biggest difference I see is scale. A press allows a much wider range of cutting sizes allowing for a wider range of options. What I would have love to hear you touch on though was which one would you say -following its introduction into your business- has had the greatest impact? One seems more geared towards volume and one seems more versatile. You can think of something and within (diligent) hours bang out something entirely from scratch at only the cost of your time.
I would add that if you’re going to walk away from the laser, you should have some sort of video monitoring system because they do like to set themselves on fire (especially if the masking hasn’t been burnished well on the material). Lifting the lid stops the laser so if a fire starts, you can stop the machine pretty quick.
Aaaaaaah weeehoo weeehoo weeehoo 🤣🤣🤣 sorry that was priceless !!! Amazing video and just what i was looking for ! Thanks for your cool videos ! We appreciate the time and headache that goes along with making them !
I've seen these clicker presses but never knew what they're used for. I come from the paper side of things and ran a huge platen press for a few years. The have the advantage that they're self feeding and can run continuously. Also our cut media is uniform and dies are relatively inexpensive as they're just steel rule stuck in laser cut plywood. I can't imagine how frustrating working at the pace of your press must be.
You forgot to mention that the laser can be connected to an indoor air purifier, designed just for this purpose. Not cheap but perhaps better than punching another hole in the wall. I am always amazed that many who pursue various crafts as a means of "making a living", soon look for ways to "industrialize" their process. Was this always the goal? In reality, there are few in this world who can create one offs consistently by their own hand, and generate enough of the lucre, to support themselves, a family and the burden of taxation. We could also discuss the challenge of entering a market replete with low priced goods of acceptable quality, at least for the masses. But that is another discussion for another day.
I've owned an Epilog Legend 24 for almost 20 years now. This is a 70 watt, 12" by 24" monster that weighs 450 pounds and cost 30k new. I've cut hundreds of leather parts that were then sewn into a pocket to hold pool cue chalk. I cut the shape and punched the holes for stitching. It was very stinky, makes much smoke and leaves the edges sooty. I'm guessing it might have been chrome tanned based on your experience, I was supplied with full and half hides so I don't know what it was. To clean the parts, I tossed them in the drier with a damp towel. I assume this would be a bad idea where surface finish is important, these things ended up a cube about 1" square. Because i had to maximize the material, i would run into issues where some parts were cut correctly, some would require trimming with a knife and some would catch fire. All during the same run. Keep a fire extinguisher nearby as well as a spray bottle of water to keep the flames under control, although the smaller machines may have electronics close to the cutting area so a damp towel to smother the fire might be a better choice than a spray bottle. I use a 2hp woodworking dust collector in the garage to vent the smoke and dust. It's been years since I cut leather, I'm mostly marking metal these days, either anodized aluminumtube or butcher's knives for a local meat cutting training program.
Hi Mike, I am in the process of setting up my Workshop and am looking at the Epilog, Zing 24. What are your thoughts on Epilog? ... in your opinion, am I making a good choice? Workshop will be for a Leathercrafting Business and not a hobby.
I don't own either, But it seems that size matters and making longer x and y axis arms outside of the container containing the brain would be easier and cheaper than upsizing your clicker... So in my way of thinking, a laser definitely sounds better.....
Tbh, a strange choice... You can be creative and make new designs without laser cutter. Using an oldest tool in our history - hands. Just cut a new design by hand, boom, problem solved. Laser cutter is convenient, but for a shop i would go press 100%. You just can't replicate the combination of speed and precision that a clicker press provides. PLus, if your designs become more complex, laser cutter just don't give you any pros...
I love my Glowforge (was start-up buyer) and use it for many things--but rarely for cutting leather, though lots of etching on leather & making templates for hole punch or corners. I find hand cutting (for my volume work) faster & less scrap vs with the laser--and don't have to clean the soot off the cut edges as must be done after laser cutting! But if doing intricate shapes--at least scoring the leather on the GF a great option to make cutting easier! (But still clean off soot).
On soot--i've not tried it with W&C yet--but guess most of cutting exp with thick--thicker than GF def'n of thick--8-9 oz nat'l veg tan, so a lot more soot than 3-4oz certainly! So as trying more 2-4oz veg tan products & being a high-mix/low volume, may use my GF for a bit more of the leather cutting for small stuff, too!
Have a Glowforge Pro and a 8-ton manual clicker...that I've been waiting to use for the last two months since my dies still aren't here yet. Ugh. Where do you get your dies, both the metal/steel rule and the acrylic backed? Thanks and keep up the good work, I really enjoy your videos and have learned a lot from you. Thanks!
@@fakiirification I have been watching several other creators who use the glowforge and other materials. I will definitely be getting one when I can finally afford one
I almost lost my arm moving a clicker press without a fork lift. Ended up with the clicker on it's side and an emergency after hours rental of a fork lift... An ounce of prevention or something.
Hmm... In the imagination of only being allowed to have 1, i think the clickerpress is more reliable as in.. You dont need computer, software etc. So the clickerpress is, altough more expensive on the long run, one of those machines that your greatgreatgreatgreatgreatgreatgreat grand children would still be able to use to its full potential without having to worry about potentially outdated software or dead lasers. But in real life id definitly go for the glowforge because bowow that bb sparks 🤩
Somewaht true. The Laser Cutter loses power with time. The Tube is filled with a gas, which, just from the nature of it being a gas, gets leaked over time, thus diminishing the power. Even if the Cutter just gatheres dust somewhere, it will get weaker. Used or not. Buying a new one can be pricey but its worth it. (We got lucky and bought a Tube from an actually legit seller from aliexpress :D so it cost us around 800€ if i remember right which is cheap)
I did not know that about chrome tan in a laser cutter. I use a lot of upcycled materials so there isn’t always an option of using veg tan. I’ve been looking at clicker presses and weighing the two ways to cut faster. You helped me decide on the healthier path. Thanks!
new comer here, so i'd choose a mighty wonder 4 ton and a glowforge basic for some months but when the game gets strong :D i'd totally go to the forge pro and a bigger press, just because those machines are made to be used
I really wish you had not used a glowforge as your laser machine. That is a proprietary system, and it stands apart from all other laser machines. So, that makes it a poor choice as a representative to compare to a clicker press.
I would choose the clicker press in a heartbeat. Saves a ton of time. Laser cutters are very popular now, it is really easy to find a place were you can have something laser cut, it doesn't take long and is really affordable. On the other hand finding someone who owns a clicker press is hard, and again, at least here in Mexico, having dies made is not as expensive. Six months ago I started a leathercraft project, and since then I have watched all of your videos which have been extremely helpful, so thank you so much for doing what you do. Today I got my Global SK112, tried it out, it was awesome. I bought de Adler 699 Eco which you mentioned in some videos to be great, gets here at the end of next month and I also got the Omac hot stamping machine. I am SO excited! Without the content you create, the tips and motivation you provide I would have never continued to pursue this, so again, thank you so much! Wishing the very best for you and your family.
Clicker. Working with leather can be dangerous. Three leather workers I know in Australia have died from cancer. All under sixty. That is I believe from touching the leather. Cutting with a laser looks dangerous long term. Then it's too late.
That’s super sad. I wonder if it was more the chemicals they used with making the goods ie. harsh chemicals, dyes and glues rather than the leather itself.
Trying to sell you a laser cutter ,the clicker press was bought used,there’s inexpensive clicker press even hydraulic jacks can be rigged laser cutter you need a computer software and is a subscription use a knife and call you self clicker & laser master
Clicker press, it allows more people to be in employment due to having to have presses made for you if you do not have the skills to move your design into a physical form. All the cons you have mentioned are cons to you (the producer) but they for me are outweighed because as I'm earning I know others are also. When your not tech advanced a laser cutter gives you freedom but its that whole trial and error. I would rather keep people in employment than costs to yourself because of mistakes.
This was a great video. Well presented and stated.
I would add just a bit to clicker presses. Full disclosure, my company sells these in the US.
- We can step down machines to 1Ph 220V or 110V for the smaller (10-15 ton) machines.
- For cutting boards, try Nylon, its more expensive but lasts much longer. (x2 cost but x4 longevity)
- For dies, steel rules dies are pretty cost competitive and the company we partner with normally has a few day turnaround.
Some other disadvantages to be aware of:
- Clickers require hydraulic oil which can leak from the rear side panels if you don't have a full-face gasket
- Because these are all now made in China the ability to find parts for them can be somewhat difficult (Normally just button contactors and a spider bushing)
- If you use the pressure mode on the machine you can see different cutting depths with different leather weights. This can lead to your board wearing out a bit faster.
Glad to see this content on TH-cam and glad to have so many skilled creators willing to help educate people.
Good work!
clicker for production, laser for design 👌🏻
* It's worth noting that the clicker press is powered by 400 Smith's Leather Balm magnets.
😘😘😘😘
Those things are powerful... I have 10 running my refrigerator right now lol
I just purchased a Little Wonder clicker press a few months ago and I’m in heaven. I used Adobe Illustrator to prototype on paper prior to having the dies made. After 3 years of hand cutting everything and hammering in my makers mark, I am so happy every time I pull the lever down! The Glow Forge is coming eventually!!!
That’s awesome! I love my mighty wonder too!
As a hobbyist, I find the laser a better solution. I’m rarely doing repeated designs that could justify the cost of clicker dies. But with the laser, I can easily tweak a design each time I make it. Even with something as simple as my logo, I can resize it for each product - something that would be very expensive if I had to have several stamps made. In my case, I settled for the ubiquitous K40 laser because it was so inexpensive but it is not for the faint of heart. They are only useful if you are willing to spend as much time fixing/finessing your laser as doing your leatherwork. Still, they’re functional once set up properly.
Agreed. My only complaint is that he used a closed, proprietary, internet-based Glowforge to represent laser machines. 🤦♂️
Hello. Do you have any suggestions or resources for having the dies made? Also, can you suggest how to clean the edges and remove the smell? Thanks.
I already answered this on facebook, but couldn't wait to watch the video to see if you agreed and what your reasoning was...petty much same thoughts as I had...though I'm just a hobbyist when it comes to leather, so I make cardboard or aluminum templates and cut my pieces out the old fashioned way lol...awesome video as always man!
I have both and prototype on the laser with eva foam to test the sewing. Then I make the clicker dies on the laser to cut leather. Fun fact - 3mm ply cuts real easy on even small lasers and laminating a stack with glue is super easy to do with bulldog clips or clothes pegs.
After reading through many of the comments here, it looks as though I'm in the minority.
As for being creative, I can always cut by hand. So, any new projects I'm prototyping, cutting out a one-off just isn't that big of a deal. I use Illustrator for making both my leather patterns and my clicker die patterns. I've been using a homemade 20 ton clicker press for about the past 1-1/2 years and I couldn't tell you how much time it has saved me when cutting out holsters. We're talking cutting out 60-100 two-piece holsters at a time. That would take all day (or more) with a laser cutter. Same job on my home press is like an hour. With a swing arm press, I could cut that down to about 30-40 minutes.
I'd have to go with the swing arm press if I had to choose only one.
That’s awesome!
Great vidéo. For the simplicity and the kind of work I would choose clicker press
Thank you for the interesting discussion. I mostly watched to get your thoughts on the Glowforge. The thing that turns me off about all laser cutters is that they produce smoke and/or toxic gas. That's a really hard Con to get around. I think for now I'll have to continue prototyping on my 3D printer and CNC machine, and then send the files off to someone else who has a laser cutter or find a better way to do the production runs.
What I would pick would depend on what I was doing. I work in wood, metal and plastics. Soon leather!
I’ve had a laser for years. It is insanely versatile, can be inexpensive and is a good entry into computer design and production as it’s 2D.
When it comes to making things there is never an end to the equipment and tools that you can desire!
Oh..... my..... goodness!!! The price of the satchel dies literally had my mouth on the floor. But I guess if it works hats off to you. It will probably be several years before I even contemplate getting a clicker so I dont have to worry about that yet haha. BTW almost all the tools i have are the ones you recommend. I.e, sinabroks pricking irons, palosanto edgers, and the like. Thanks for your great business examples. You were the one who inspired me.
I have a small diode laser cutter. Cheap entry point. It will only cut thin leather. But I use it to draw may patterns on the leather. This gives me a good line to follow and mark holes when I'm cutting and punching.
I also case the leather before I do it. This reduces the soot and charring. It also helps the leather lay flat which is important.
I have been wanting a bigger laser that will cut leather and I have wanted a clicker.
I think this video helped me decide. Thanks!
You were talking about your Glow-forge brand of Laser having a smaller bed. I felt they had too small a bed as well, sooooo, I took a chance and purchased a 100 watt 24 x 36 bed laser from China. Price and import fees totaled $3457.00. After installing and playing with it, I really think I scored. Trying to put together a review of it (pros and cons) for youtube. It will be my first video for my channel. It's a lot harder than it looks. Don't see how you guys do nit so consistently. I'll let you know when its up.
Stoked! Looking into one of those too!
I would choose laser cutter. unlimited design possibilities. :) good work btw ! love the channel and products !
I’ve been using my glowforge for a few years now in my leather work. I will say, I only use veg tan Herman Oak and I have lots of soot to deal with. I score the stitch holes and go back and cut them with my punch. I’ll get a piece of W&C and try it out. (I also have a 4 ton mighty wonder, it’s very useful.)
I’d chose a laser cutter because of the versatility. It can be used on all kinds of materials, not just leather.
Please clarify: Is the laser cutter used for cutting actual leather or is it for making paper templates that you've created from Adobe Illustrator?
I use it for cutting leather for certain items and for prototyping new designs with leather. I rarely use it for cardboard or paper. I also use it to cut acrylic patterns.
thanks for making this video, I've been trying to decide which direction to go. I think Laser Cutter is the best direction for me. I do more than just leather work, so I can see the versatility being a bigger advantage.
Totally agree. Laser cutter if you are beginning: clicker press once you get the volume up.
Thanks for another great video Ryan! I'd tend to say that a clicker press is a next level when you're approaching mass production. As long as you have the money to buy a laser cutter and that you can use it to make your products, which is my case, you're fine. But when you have to do more, and faster, a clicker press is most likely the best option. I had an order of 500 keyfobs once, and with this scenario, I wonder what the best would be. I was able to cut 20 keyfobs at a time with my Glowforge, and with a clicker press I would have to stay right in front of the machine and do 500 manual actions. So to me, if you have the money to buy a laser cutter and you don't do mass production (yet), go for it, and when your business is more mature get a clicker press to speed up mass production.
So true! It depends on what your situation is. Right now design is super important for me personally. But once that design is finalized, the clicker comes in super useful.
with my metal fabrication background and knowing where to get those pre sharpened steel strips they make dies out of. id go with the clicker and make my own dies. =)
The only true tip the scale deciding factor for me to pick clicker press over laser cutter would be that if I made a DIY clicker press I could use it to cut, stamp, set fasteners rather than using a hammer or another specialty tool made just for fasteners etc., but if I'm not doing a DIY clicker press I would choose laser though the bed size is my biggest issue too like you said, Time is money and because of that you can really save way more time through speed of designs and even on a glow forge you can have it cut several shapes at one time while you prepare other projects or steps to that project, clicker presses you have to do one section at a time and you can't leave it to do other stuff to prepare for the next steps in your projects. Because of this multi shape option if you needed to you could even work on several smaller projects all at one time too. But as I get started in leather working it will all have to be done by hand the old fashioned way.
Thanks for the info! All makes sense. Seems it comes down to the combo of your individual needs, desire or not to design more and cost. For my needs, I’d go with the clicker press. But I can see why you would choose laser. 👌🏾
Yea… it’s all about what you do the most. The Clicker is awesome for cranking out work. The laser is awesome for prototyping and design. Thanks for the comment!
Does oil tan leather produce the toxic gas like chrome tan? Thanks for all these videos!
Thanks, this video is awesome but I think I'll unfortunately have to get both...
Another option is a die cut machine (like Cricut or Brother) it's has the same drawback on size that a lazer has but without the danger of cutting pvc and chrome tan leather because it's using a blade insted of burning. it's also a bit cheaper then a lazer but don't just buy a particular brand without doing research because some brands like cricut will try and lock you into there brand.
So cutting chrome tanned leather isnt recommended. What about etching on chrome tanned leather? Is it the same thing just not as much toxic gas as cutting?
I do have a laser cutter. Don't forget about thickness limits based on power of the laser.
So true… thanks for the input!
I chose... the knife! But I am old school and don't do production work.
I’ve been using my glowforge for a few years now in my leather work. I will say, I only use veg tan Herman Oak and I have lots of soot to deal with. I score the stitch holes and go back and cut them with my punch. I’ll get a piece of W&C and try it out. (I also have a 4 ton mighty wonder, it’s very useful.)
Epilog laser cutter/engraver because they don't require you to have an internet connection in order to use their machines. They have all the same features of a glowforge plus more. They are made in the USA from start to finish. Meaning, you're helping to support your own country instead of Communist China. Instead of exhausting the smoke to the outside world, you can use a filtration box. Especially important for the cancer causing emissions of certain types of materials you're cutting or engraving.
Sure, if you have $10k for their cheapest machine. I can't justify starting a leathercraft business using such an expensive tool. Only recommended for those people well established, I would say.
Lasercutter for sure but it is totally not leave and forget, those can catch fire, already happened to me once cutting mdf, just word of caution to people making stuff, also there are more affordable options that have bigger beds than glowforge and lightscribe is an awesome software for these options
I find Corel Draw much easier to use than illustrator. I've used it on vector drawings going back over 20 years.. I believe it was coreldraw4 at that time and that still works perfect.
It cost a fraction as much and you don't need the newest version. And none of that online crap. You actually own the program.
I'm going to have to say after watching this .. For sure the laser because of the type of work im doing i think it would be most benefical esp in customization work and as you said as a lover of design it can't be beat but i do plan on getting both because I love chrome tan and i had no idea you couldn't laser it! Thank you for that! The laser will also allow for designing and testing diecuts so again can't go wrong with the laser.
I agree!
I have used the glowforge for leather project before and it just isn’t the same feel. I would say for production go with the clicker right? I guess if you are constantly coming out with new designs the laser would be nice but it doesn’t compare to the speed of the clicker.
🙌🏼
Love this! Going through this discussion with the wife at Branded Faith! Cheers
It’s a tough decision, wish you all the best!
I would choose the laser. I’m a retired graphic artist, so the learning curve would not need too steep. Also I don’t think at this point that high volume would be an issue.
Hello Ryan, thank you for another great video! So I have been using a clicker press for years, and I finally bought the GlowForge. I have one question, what masking paper do you use, if you have a link that would be very helpful. Thank you sir!
Here I am watching this again for some reason. I would have to choose the laser clicker. Sounds like a plan, a new device to create...
How do you protect your leather surface from burning?
Watching this, I'm going to look to see if you have a video on a drag knife cnc machine. Been looking at those as well. Pairing the cnc with a vac table. Still, it's all $$$
I would say laser.
Almost all the necessary machines skiving burnishing and tools how can k get it
I think the versatility of the glowforge gives it the edge. And the "low setup cost" of not having to buy dies is an important factor. That being said, I'd be happy to own either at this point 😆. Thanks for the video as always!
Yea it’s really hard to choose between them both, they are both super useful and I love them both!
@@LittleKingGoodshow do you clean the leather after the cutting? Especially the stitching holes? I cut it before but thread is getting messy while stitching.
I think it also comes down a lot to what you are making. The biggest difference I see is scale. A press allows a much wider range of cutting sizes allowing for a wider range of options. What I would have love to hear you touch on though was which one would you say -following its introduction into your business- has had the greatest impact? One seems more geared towards volume and one seems more versatile. You can think of something and within (diligent) hours bang out something entirely from scratch at only the cost of your time.
Interesting - So what is the thickness limit and are you still able to slick the edges? Thanks
I would add that if you’re going to walk away from the laser, you should have some sort of video monitoring system because they do like to set themselves on fire (especially if the masking hasn’t been burnished well on the material). Lifting the lid stops the laser so if a fire starts, you can stop the machine pretty quick.
I would NEVER leave a laser cutter, 3D printer, CNC machine, or even a Cricut Maker operating on its own unattended.
@@lisaleone2296 Yeah me neither but folks seem to love doing it
Aaaaaaah weeehoo weeehoo weeehoo 🤣🤣🤣 sorry that was priceless !!! Amazing video and just what i was looking for ! Thanks for your cool videos ! We appreciate the time and headache that goes along with making them !
Thanks man!
good morning I wanted to know if you made the cutting dies, in plexiglass and blade, with the laser
Will there be any more product build videos?
Yup there will be.
I've seen these clicker presses but never knew what they're used for. I come from the paper side of things and ran a huge platen press for a few years. The have the advantage that they're self feeding and can run continuously. Also our cut media is uniform and dies are relatively inexpensive as they're just steel rule stuck in laser cut plywood. I can't imagine how frustrating working at the pace of your press must be.
Are you required labour clicker press
Thank you for sharing these info
You forgot to mention that the laser can be connected to an indoor air purifier, designed just for this purpose. Not cheap but perhaps better than punching another hole in the wall.
I am always amazed that many who pursue various crafts as a means of "making a living", soon look for ways to "industrialize" their process. Was this always the goal?
In reality, there are few in this world who can create one offs consistently by their own hand, and generate enough of the lucre, to support themselves, a family and the burden of taxation.
We could also discuss the challenge of entering a market replete with low priced goods of acceptable quality, at least for the masses. But that is another discussion for another day.
how many tools need to handmade leather craft?
Or put another way, how many dollars does it take...
can you use hydraulic clicker press for embossing as well?
Id choose a laser, but I'm a bit bias. Great Vid
I've owned an Epilog Legend 24 for almost 20 years now. This is a 70 watt, 12" by 24" monster that weighs 450 pounds and cost 30k new. I've cut hundreds of leather parts that were then sewn into a pocket to hold pool cue chalk. I cut the shape and punched the holes for stitching. It was very stinky, makes much smoke and leaves the edges sooty. I'm guessing it might have been chrome tanned based on your experience, I was supplied with full and half hides so I don't know what it was. To clean the parts, I tossed them in the drier with a damp towel. I assume this would be a bad idea where surface finish is important, these things ended up a cube about 1" square. Because i had to maximize the material, i would run into issues where some parts were cut correctly, some would require trimming with a knife and some would catch fire. All during the same run. Keep a fire extinguisher nearby as well as a spray bottle of water to keep the flames under control, although the smaller machines may have electronics close to the cutting area so a damp towel to smother the fire might be a better choice than a spray bottle. I use a 2hp woodworking dust collector in the garage to vent the smoke and dust. It's been years since I cut leather, I'm mostly marking metal these days, either anodized aluminumtube or butcher's knives for a local meat cutting training program.
Hi Mike,
I am in the process of setting up my Workshop and am looking at the Epilog, Zing 24.
What are your thoughts on Epilog? ... in your opinion, am I making a good choice?
Workshop will be for a Leathercrafting Business and not a hobby.
I would have to go with laser because it can do three things and possibilities are unlimited
I heard you are selling your leather machines. I need clicker press, laser engraving and atom press.
Can i ask, what masking film are you using on the laser to stop marking? Is it a low tack application tape, similar to tape used in vinyl sign making?
I don't own either,
But it seems that size matters and making longer x and y axis arms outside of the container containing the brain would be easier and cheaper than upsizing your clicker...
So in my way of thinking, a laser definitely sounds better.....
Is it not possible to use a self healing cutting matt under the clicker press because it would cut all the way through it?
I well chose laser cutter because clicker press depends on clickers and that is not easy to get all the time
Tbh, a strange choice... You can be creative and make new designs without laser cutter. Using an oldest tool in our history - hands. Just cut a new design by hand, boom, problem solved.
Laser cutter is convenient, but for a shop i would go press 100%. You just can't replicate the combination of speed and precision that a clicker press provides.
PLus, if your designs become more complex, laser cutter just don't give you any pros...
I love my Glowforge (was start-up buyer) and use it for many things--but rarely for cutting leather, though lots of etching on leather & making templates for hole punch or corners. I find hand cutting (for my volume work) faster & less scrap vs with the laser--and don't have to clean the soot off the cut edges as must be done after laser cutting! But if doing intricate shapes--at least scoring the leather on the GF a great option to make cutting easier! (But still clean off soot).
On soot--i've not tried it with W&C yet--but guess most of cutting exp with thick--thicker than GF def'n of thick--8-9 oz nat'l veg tan, so a lot more soot than 3-4oz certainly! So as trying more 2-4oz veg tan products & being a high-mix/low volume, may use my GF for a bit more of the leather cutting for small stuff, too!
Have a Glowforge Pro and a 8-ton manual clicker...that I've been waiting to use for the last two months since my dies still aren't here yet. Ugh.
Where do you get your dies, both the metal/steel rule and the acrylic backed?
Thanks and keep up the good work, I really enjoy your videos and have learned a lot from you. Thanks!
would a laser work well for Horween Dublin leather?
I think I would have to pick the laser more versatility.
Considering the vast majority of my leatherworking is done with chrome tan, the laser would be of no use to me. Thank you for the video, Ryan.
you *can* cut chrome tan on it. just shouldnt.
@@fakiirification I have been watching several other creators who use the glowforge and other materials. I will definitely be getting one when I can finally afford one
@@jwengerdotcomcan you share with me?
What is your preferred masking tape for leather? Can you use the same stuff used with vinyl?
I would pick the laser cutter.
I almost lost my arm moving a clicker press without a fork lift. Ended up with the clicker on it's side and an emergency after hours rental of a fork lift... An ounce of prevention or something.
Same story here.... that said, the clicker made it's money back in no time!
Hmm... In the imagination of only being allowed to have 1, i think the clickerpress is more reliable as in.. You dont need computer, software etc. So the clickerpress is, altough more expensive on the long run, one of those machines that your greatgreatgreatgreatgreatgreatgreat grand children would still be able to use to its full potential without having to worry about potentially outdated software or dead lasers. But in real life id definitly go for the glowforge because bowow that bb sparks 🤩
Yea it’s such a tough call, I really love them both!
Thank you
I am sure the clicker press will be working 7 years from now. The laser cutter? Not so sure. I would go with the clicker.
Somewaht true. The Laser Cutter loses power with time. The Tube is filled with a gas, which, just from the nature of it being a gas, gets leaked over time, thus diminishing the power. Even if the Cutter just gatheres dust somewhere, it will get weaker. Used or not. Buying a new one can be pricey but its worth it. (We got lucky and bought a Tube from an actually legit seller from aliexpress :D so it cost us around 800€ if i remember right which is cheap)
Great video 👏👍👍
Hope it helps!
I did not know that about chrome tan in a laser cutter. I use a lot of upcycled materials so there isn’t always an option of using veg tan. I’ve been looking at clicker presses and weighing the two ways to cut faster. You helped me decide on the healthier path. Thanks!
If you want to work with Chrome tans as well as veg.. its a no on the laser cutter then, eh?
new comer here, so i'd choose a mighty wonder 4 ton and a glowforge basic for some months
but when the game gets strong :D i'd totally go to the forge pro and a bigger press, just because those machines are made to be used
Laser cutter 😎
As with most questions, the answer is: it depends.
I really wish you had not used a glowforge as your laser machine. That is a proprietary system, and it stands apart from all other laser machines. So, that makes it a poor choice as a representative to compare to a clicker press.
My glowforge plus
Great choice!
Just one machine: Thread Zap II HAHAHA!
I would choose the clicker press in a heartbeat. Saves a ton of time. Laser cutters are very popular now, it is really easy to find a place were you can have something laser cut, it doesn't take long and is really affordable. On the other hand finding someone who owns a clicker press is hard, and again, at least here in Mexico, having dies made is not as expensive.
Six months ago I started a leathercraft project, and since then I have watched all of your videos which have been extremely helpful, so thank you so much for doing what you do. Today I got my Global SK112, tried it out, it was awesome. I bought de Adler 699 Eco which you mentioned in some videos to be great, gets here at the end of next month and I also got the Omac hot stamping machine. I am SO excited! Without the content you create, the tips and motivation you provide I would have never continued to pursue this, so again, thank you so much! Wishing the very best for you and your family.
Re my previous comment - I was referring to the Glowforge Pro that you have.
Clicker. Working with leather can be dangerous. Three leather workers I know in Australia have died from cancer. All under sixty. That is I believe from touching the leather. Cutting with a laser looks dangerous long term. Then it's too late.
That’s super sad. I wonder if it was more the chemicals they used with making the goods ie. harsh chemicals, dyes and glues rather than the leather itself.
I wish i have one. 😌
Bueno, tendré que empezar con el cortador de pizza y mis hermosas manos XD.
Trying to sell you a laser cutter ,the clicker press was bought used,there’s inexpensive clicker press even hydraulic jacks can be rigged laser cutter you need a computer software and is a subscription use a knife and call you self clicker & laser master
You can also walk everywhere you go instead of driving or riding a bike.
the clicker
You are soooo cool thats nice 😁😁😁
Send me both and I'll let you know in a few months. 😆
I want to sell close clicker press in Hyderabad's India price 80000 rupees only second hand
Same machine exact
Excelente
👍👍🥰🥰
Thanks, this video is awesome but I think I'll unfortunately have to get both...
Clicker press, it allows more people to be in employment due to having to have presses made for you if you do not have the skills to move your design into a physical form. All the cons you have mentioned are cons to you (the producer) but they for me are outweighed because as I'm earning I know others are also. When your not tech advanced a laser cutter gives you freedom but its that whole trial and error. I would rather keep people in employment than costs to yourself because of mistakes.
В следующий раз можно показывать больше, а не болтать, я всё равно ни слова не понимаю.