DIE CUTTING Leather vs LASER CUTTING Leather - What's Best??
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 31 ก.ค. 2018
- In this video we do a quick comparison between die cutting leather using a clicker press and laser cutting leather on a laser cutter. Both of these methods have their benefits and problems depending on your scenario.
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MACHINES I USED
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(Laser Cutter) Boss LS-1630: www.bosslaser.com/boss-ls-163...
(Clicker Press) Weaver Mighty Wonder 4-ton Press: amzn.to/3jUFWgE
(Clicker Dies) Texas Custom Dies: www.usacuttingdie.com/
DIGITAL & ACRYLIC LEATHER PATTERNS
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Download FREE Leather Patterns here: makesupply-leather.com/templat...
Buy Digital Leather Patterns here: shop.makesupply-leather.com/c...
Buy Acrylic Leather Patterns here: shop.makesupply-leather.com/c... - แนวปฏิบัติและการใช้ชีวิต
Great video, I Personally use a co2 laser for leather and have a few tips from experience.
1. Soak your veg tan leather for 3- 5 mins before cutting and engraving. With my setup this both improved cutting speed by 2x - 3x WITH cleaner edges. It also help the leather lay flat on the honeycomb bed.
Seriously this is a game changer!
2. Place a piece of cardstock paper under your wet leather. This will block the smoke from staining the backside. You want to cut through both so you may need to slightly adjust cutting speed.
3. Hold down mat board for alignment and flattening. I outline my pieces in lightburn at 5-10mm and cut these outlines into mat board (used for photo framing) then I use the negatives as a jig for both position and masking. Add magnets on top of the mat board to press down the leather on all edges making it lay flat. This is very useful for scrap pieces of leather which you can tape to the back of the board to cut multiple at once.
Hope these tips make it to you.
They are two completely different devices. The laser works for iterative processes, prototyping, limited run and one- of-a-kind things, it can’t be beat. The clicker is for production runs. When you’re at the point where you know the design works and you will sell a ton of them, then you order the custom dies. One note, is that there are a number of ways of avoiding charring and clean-up when using the laser to cut and etch. Among those ways are really getting to know your laser and playing around with various power and speed settings to obtain optimal results. In my opinion, there is no competition between these two pieces of equipment, nir is it ever an either/ or scenario.
Thats basically what my conclusion was. I use both but for vastly different tasks.
So glad to see you again! Thanks for taking the time to do this video. Hope all is well with your new shop! Have a great day!!!
Thanks Ron!!
I spray glue my leather on a piece of thick paper..... keeps it flat with no burn marks. You can put low tack film or tape on the top to prevent burn marks on leather or on wood to prevent burn as well.
really great info, love seeing your processes and your workshop in use. Lovely to see all those plants there, some or all of them also help in getting rid of toxins in the air, which is always good. I'm really interested in the dye cut system so always good seeing them in action. All the best and hope to see more of your videos in the future
A simple way to get the leather to lay flat in the laser is to use a light glue to stick it to a sheet of glass. It will also stop the splash back on the back of the leather as it is glued down so blocking the scorching from getting to it.
Really helpful and clear..fantastic film...thanks.
Thank you!
Thank you, Brother. Excellent informative and precise instructional video!
I use 30-80 lbs magnets on my honeycomb bed to hold material flat. Also use a camera on the lid of the laser for easier/faster positioning of material and use LightBurn software which is compatible with boss systems
Great video! I’ve had a laser for years, but have not been successful with acrylic and leather. I actually also have a BOSS:)
Thanks so much taking time to make this video to share Justin. It was super helpful in helping me understand the pros and cons of each. I have some of your templates :)
Thanks for watching and for checking out the templates. Much appreciated!
Glad to see a video, Justin!
Thank you!
I have a 8 ton clicker and have been thinking about a leaser machine, but after watching your video I think I’ll stay with my clicker. Thank you. Very good video
To hold down items, we got cylinder shaped magnets with an outer diameter that fits tightly in the honeycomb, and then another set of magnets that you'd place on top of the leather to attract to the ones in the honeycomb. There's some planning involved so your design doesn't get interupted by a magnet when cut leaving an uncut spot.
I've never had to cut through leather, but for other items that I've cut through and don't want burn residue on the bottom, I use vinyl transfer tapes. They come in several levels of tack, and you can get samples or hobby sized pieces to test before ordering a large roll. They are fairly cheap so it's worth testing. High tack transfer tape is still less sticky than masking tape with no residue left behind.
It would be great if there was a two-sided, transfer tape, for use on materials that don't want to lay flat, i.e.: some leathers. Although, I guess they wouldn't call it transfer tape, would they.
I think the laser cutter is the better option for many reasons. You can actually cut more then one at once if you had a large piece of leather and duplicated your design a couple times. Especially important if they were smaller designs. Your press only does one thing, and it does it perfectly. The laser cutter can be used for a variety of uses.
Great video!
Good video Justin!!
Thank you!
Yay a new video!!!
Can u tell us what are the setting that you chose for the laser machine (the speed, the power)
Great video. Super useful.
thank you!
Interesting video. My idea for this is to set up the laser cut a full sheet of leather while I'm doing other things. The part about it not being flat was really good info though!
you can flat it down with some metal rods across the material, though
one the job sight, clicker die. 👍 trying to cut reflective thermoplastic road sheets. hope I don't need to heat up the material first, might.
Very nice video. How do you clean the soot of the leather that was laser cut?
Great vid! We're building a similar setup in our shop. We already have the Mighty Wonder, and our Glowforge Pro will be here in a few days. We're mainly looking to use the laser for very intricate cuts for my wifes leather jewelry line while I'll use it to prototype designs before committing them to steel (like you suggested). All in all, I think if you can afford both that's the way to go. They both have their place in a shop.
Yeah they are the best of both worlds. Good luck with the jewelry line!
How do you guys make a custom die when you established your new design and ready to go. Can you get a die made for any shapes?
Do you have any other tips for flattening the leather enough for the laser cutter? I'm looking into getting one for leather and lots of other stuff but most leather I've worked with seems like it would be hard to flatten. Thanks!
Had a 4'*8' laser back in the day.
Magnets. Strong ones. Can hold a lot of stuff flat.
Was wondering if you can rig a metal vacuum bed to hold the leather flat?
Do you mind sharing the speed and power you use to cut leather. I have the same one but haven’t experiment with leather cutting yet.
Thanks, if you were to choose between a laser cutter or an oscillating knife cutter what would you choose. Knowing what you know now?
How many watts did u use because sometimes it make burn or fire specially in pu
It's so unusual to see you without beany:-)
Regarding klicker, it is very important to cut on hard surface. I would recommend instead of putting leather on top of clikcing board - put it under the board.
Thanks for cool videos!
Haha it was so hot inside with my air conditioner on that day. I did end up putting the leather under the board. 2 layers cut to size.
I want to get a laser cutter like this for cutting my leather pieces out how much is a set up like yours
Would using masking tape on the backside get rid of the splashback burns?
Great Video, 'Absolute Boss!!' :)
I use a 3 ton arbor press. Added 12 inch longer rod to the press. 1” winco cutting board. I use a top plate for the dies. I can cut 16 ounce vegtan with no problem. The custom die companies are quite expensive. Etsy, Amazon and Temu sell dies at reasonable prices and work just fine. No need to break the bank for the hobby.
Could you please suggest me a good machine for leather engraving. It will be kind help.
Is leather more difficult to burnish when laser cut?
Very good video and you covered some excellent points. You may want to mention PRICING comparison (cost) between your laser vs. clicker press. I suspect that the press will be a better value in the long run vs. maintaining the costs of the laser. Thanks for your valued comments on your video.
Very true! Should add a section about production work and ROI for each.
The big difference probably is clicker will be leather only. Laser can cut lots of other stuff. BTW the templates you made for me are awesome Justin.
What if you add vacuum table on the leather to hold it down inside laser cutter
where did you buy this clicker press?
what machine do you recommend for cutting polyester twill fabric?
Do you have any way, in-house, to re-sharpening your steel-rule dies, or do you send them back to the manufacturer for re-sharpening?
Also, would slightly dampening your leather help it to lay flatter?
Re laser cutter, does the burning negatively impact burnishing the edges?
You’re speaking my language! Great video man👊🏼
Thanks! Been watching your videos great stuff.
can you use doublse sided tape to hold the leather down
What kind of leather are you using to be able to be cut on the laser?
Can't you moisten/wet the leather to get it to lie flat?
Can thinner, steel rule dies be used with a clicker press. We have several hundred "thinner" ruled, steel rule dies in our inventory. Would these dies be useless to use on a clicker press?
Thank You Sir! G
could you use a vaccum board to hold leather flat for laser cutting?
I used to do that in photo copying and graphic arts years ago.
Yes there are laser beds that come with a vacuum table. Wish I had one!
great video, when looking at larger leather products, is die cutting the best way to go? How large can this die cutters be made?
I have the same question. Looking to cut 3mm thick saddle leather up 12 x 18 inches. Can the press handle that size?
Hello, thanks for this video, i have a question, what do you think about cutting patent leather with a machine like that?
i make shoes with very complicated designs, and its imposible to do a perfect work always cutting by hand.
Thanks bro!
Complicated patterns cannot be done on dies. Laser yes. You can cut the detail patterns and then the main piece out in one process.
What about intricate patterns? I think the laser would be much better and faster.
Very informative review. Thanks. I get “shell shocked “ over the price of the clicker and dies but considering the time saved, the longevity of both and the consistency of output it is definitely worth the initial cost.
Oh yeah the upfront cost is not fun. If you have something that is selling well you will make back the money quickly though.
MAKESUPPLY I definitely believe that. Even with just factoring in the amount of time saved- that’s HUGE. Then you have the decreased waste of leather, the consistency of your design, and like you were showing; the edges compared to the laser cutter were cleaner.
I wonder if it's possible to start out with a low-end import laser. They're 1/3 the cost of the clicker diecutter, and nearly 1/20 the cost of the Boss laser. Justin, can you comment, please? Did you start on a little 8x12" $340 40W CO2 import laser?
@@ljprep6250 Bump jigs and cereal box patterns probably not much slower to start with.
Hello, how much is the price of a manual machine, please and thank you, I need one. I work in the manufacture of leather slippers. This pain will make it easier for me to do a lot of work
Thanks Sir
Very cool. I've heard that laser cutting leather really smells bad. Does the leather smell burned afterwards or is that just the vapour floating around that people are talking about?
Yes it smells pretty bad at first. The smell will linger on the cut out pieces for at least a week or so then start to go away. If you decided to sand the burnt edges they smell will come back for a little while. The best thing to do is laser cut - sand the edges - clean up with conditioner. After about a week or 2 you wouldnt even know it was laser cut.
Very nice and informative video. Thanks for uploading. Would you mind sharing the setting for the laser? What the power? wattage, speed etc. thanks
Hey Danny. I have a 65w and do usually 30% power and 25speed with 3/4oz leather. I might tweak that a little depending on the kind of leather.
@@MAKESUPPLYLEATHER thank you so much
how can I get the die cutting machines and what it’s price
What power and speed were you running your laser. I have the same Boss and was really excited to see it cutting leather!
kenneth cocking it’s best just to run some trials and see what works best for your machine.
How much more expensive is using Laser?
Thanks you
How many watt is your CO2 laser?
What percentage of power did you use on that leather?
Is that using Chinese tube or the expensive RF CO2 tube?
How accurate can these cookie cutter knives be and where do you recommend buying them? I need to cut rubber, leather and sandpaper to a very precise dimension. What is the accuracy of making these knife tools? Can I expect them to be + - 0.1 mm?
Most of them are made with specialized cnc steel rule die benders in shops that often only make steel rule dies for commercial and industrial customers. I would say that it depends on the shop you go through, but I don't think that accuracy is outside of reason. I would call your local steel rule die shops and ask
laser cuts look much more crisp.
Both really aren't priced for DIY'er (unless you have money to blow), but are for production environments of varying level.
What the name of the laser
How I can get this to buy am from jamaica
Laser: For high production of large number of parts. Any shape can be cut. Cons the leather needs to stay flat. Die Cutter: For low production. every size needs a die. manual labour work required.
Truth
why not put a few little magnets on top of the leather at places the laser will not cut. Along the edges of the cut. ???
How can I get a custom die? I have a design that is unique so I would need a custom made die. Any suggestions how to start?
There are a bunch of die makers online that could probably help. I have used Texas Custom Dies as well as Milwaukee Steel Rule. There are also better budget options if you search on Etsy. They do custom designs.
Does the Texas Die company compare to the cost of dies from Weaver Leather? Or did you compare? Might make a clicker myself, but haven't researched the die makers as yet.
Hey Ron. I didnt contact any other companies before TCD. I might shop around a little for my next set of dies but so far TCD has had good price and shipping times.
@@MAKESUPPLYLEATHER Hey Justin, thanks for your reply. I really appreciate your honest opinion and look forward to seeing you again for another SUPER informative video. Hope all is well with you. Have a great day!
Hello, excellent video. You can comment what speed and power you used to cut the leather with your laser cnc, greetings from Chile;)
It depends on the leather but I try to find a middle ground on speed and power. I think going too slow is a bad idea with leather. I usually do around 25 speed and 40% power on my laser.
Thank you very match and keep on being successful
You could mask the leather to reduce laser burn.
!DA
Yes however I havent found a masking tape with a low enough tack that doesnt affect the finish of veg tan leathers. Im sure there is one out there!
I don't understand one thing. One of the benefits using clicker press is that you can put die right next to another cut and it saves you a lot of money. But just before that your "scrap piece od leather" is a nice bit of good leather for me. :D
How about cutting crocodile leather?
so do you not need to burnish edges with the laser cutter?
Yes you have to address the edges. They will be encapsulated with soot but it sands off very easily. After burnishing you would never know it was laser cut.
Blue painters tape to avoid burn marks , except edges....
Makesupply, Thank you for the time spent on this video, very informative. I do have the following questions:
How much does it cost to run the laser (understand- that clicker is all muscle). Is it an energy hog? In a given month where using only the laser was used compared to a month on a clicker press (percentage wise) did it raise on final cost of electricity for the facility?
Preventative Maintenance costs on laser? or is it fairly reliable? repair parts availability or long down times.
Can you change the hole diameter for stitching?
Is edge sanding on laser, time consuming or considered light work?
Thank you your reply is greatly appreciated.
twin raucous +255757140181 WhatsApp I’m infested with die cutting machine
How much is this laser cutter?
how about you put a very thin sheet of clear acrylic on it to flatten the leather and then cut both the acrylic and leather at the same time.
Ive tried similiar approach before and its a bit dangerous. No matter what there is still space between the materials and smoke/laser heat can build up and at least stain the leather and most start a fire.
Not all leathers will behave the same on the laser. High pull-up waxy leathers and oily leathers could be a problem. Lasers are noisy, expensive and consume energy. I also think that if you debug your design by hand cutting the first few, Then the dies don't get wasted.
Laser if you include the inner detail, holes for stitching, it will be much faster than the die. In addition if you want to cut out small designs like dots and shapes into a cut out design, dies cannot remoted do that. Detailing work, engraving on leather is by far much better on lasers. But embossing on the press is better. If you are into large volume of same pieces of products, dies are the main go to. However if you are doing small production and lots of custom works, dies are costly. Laser would be a more practical and cost effective choice.
Do you have any recommendations for a particular laser cutter? And how thick can they cut max? Also is there a way to stop the edges burning/drying out.
How much extra work does it cause for getting a nice finished edge?
@@WR4SSE the burned edged is unavoidable. Just need to clean it and burnish it. For the holes used in stitching, it would be best to use the hole punch tool. Laser would be great to do engraving designs and fine details like holes or intricate designs. Any laser would work. For laser a 50W co2 laser is more than enough to cut and engrave
Any machine you recommend? Trying to get an idea of price. Also what is the edge cleaning process? Sanding?
@@WR4SSE for the laser machine it all depends on the size and budget. Top end ones are brands like trotec. Those are fast for engraving. I am using a china based model which have been working for over 4 years. For the cleaning, yes a light sanding will do and maybe the burnishing can remove and burnish the edges at the same time. I am not a leatherworker, but have some leather materials on my laser
Ever try cutting stitching holes with the laser?
Yes, you can cut stitching holes on lasers. One of my upcoming projects is a case with a leather front and 3mm plywood back. I'll be cutting both leather and wood with stitching holes. (We have 4 lasers at the Dallas MakerSpace.)
I'm looking at getting a 1630 myself, have you pushed it through any thicker materials?
Yeah Ive done up to 8oz and it was no problem. Im sure it could go a little higher just havent tried it. If you got a 100w you could power thru almost any leather Im sure. Love my 1630 so far.
I think you're missing out a few points. First off depending on the laser cutter you can cut faster, but most importantly, if you have a roll feed you can run the job OVERNIGHT you don't have to be there to operate the lasercutting machine like the press.
Get some magnets to keep the piece from curling up
to flatten leather, put it under faucet water (not in a container⚠️) and then clean it with a cloth. it will be flatten on the laser honeycomb and it will have a better engraving/cutting with less residue of burning/smoke
finally use a toothbrush with water to clean possible residue
💪🏼
do you make the leather dies for sale? how much do you sell them? is there any phone number or something to contsct you? i need some of them for making wallets. thanks.
I use Texas Custom Dies for the dies. I wish I knew how to make them myself.
How much is that laser
Hello do you have a company to buy dies from that you can recommend
Ive only used Texas Custom Dies so far and havent had long enough to give an honest review. Lots of people vouch for them though.
Can you tell me if a good machine for a beginner?
The machine isnt too hard but the design software is more a learning curve if you do not know it. A lot of people get these as beginners though so its doable.
Yes, @makersupply is spot on. I teach a lot of people to use lasers. It's the design software that's harder to grasp. Inkscape is great and free, adobe illustrator and Corel Draw are expensive. All three have extensive video support to help you. Then you can also use cad programs and Fusion 360.
You need one of these www.hsn.com/products/cricut-maker-machine-with-64-piece-pen-and-tool-bundle/9421040
The Cricut Maker can cut materials including leather, chipboard, cardstock, poster board all up to 2.4mm thick, plus over 125+ types of fabric. It works just like the laser, but doesn't leave any black marks.
Still hard to swallow $1400 for a $200 press. Oh well, I'll keep my knife sharp. Good video.
They are vastly overpriced. You can find knockoffs on Chinese sites for
I suspect that given the market, they have to be at this price point though. There is just not a huge demand for clickers, especially manual ones.
I really don't like the laser cutter at all. It burns the leather and makes a rough edge. When you click with a die, it's a smooth cut edge that often needs little in the way of finishing, as well as making a nice bullnose type edge. When I cut on a clicker, I often don't need any further work on any edge (Depending on what I'm making) The laser cutter requires 100% edge work.
I think a good swing beam clicker can outpace a laser cutter as well.
You didn’t mention the cost of the laser machine itself. I’m guessing it’s north of $10k for that investment vs. $2k for the clicker press and an assortment of dies...
not that expensive
Boss lasers have all the pricing and options on their website. They are refreshingly transparent as opposed to many other laser manufacturers. The 1630 he has is base $6997.
Is there a reason you used a cheap Chinese clicker in the thumbnail vs the Weaver or Ace clicker? I would have assumed you would show the Weaver one as it's what you are showcasing, not the cheap version... Ive seen a few of those cheap ones, and frankly none seem to be capable of clicking. Embossing, maybe. And even if there is a model that does work, without a reputable source to buy from it's hard to direct people properly.
I am in the process of building a clicker out of a 20 ton press; not nearly as quick of a setup as the Weaver, but I am not in full time production either so I don't need the speed as much as the quality of cut (Also I suspect I'll be able to do larger/more complicated dies)
Not trying to troll you either, I just don't want someone new buying an expensive paperweight. If the Weaver/Ace models are too much money, I'd recommend building your own. A quality 20-ton press can be found for a few hundred if you look (USA made used, vs imports new) plus a few metal plates, and you're on your way for less than a quarter of a new Weaver or Ace machine. If you need speed, you might even consider going powered hydraulic clicker, which can be had for a reasonable premium on the Weaver or Ace machines. and you get even more speed/control/power but you're likely in production, not as a hobby.
10000 thumb up
plus i can engrave on leather . can`t do it on a clicker
Yep very true forgot to mention the engraving vs stamping aspect.
Mike which one do you have, and where do you recommend buying,?
You told us what the clicker press cost, but didn't mention what the lazer cost... there is where the rubber meets the road... I am thinking it is probably 6 figures+ for the lazer, the software and all the cabling...
You didn't mention the putrid smell of the leather being burnt by the lazer... what is that like? (its gotta be massive P.U.)
The Boss web site says $7,000 for the lazer... www.bosslaser.com/full-laser-line-up/boss-ls-1630.html
Plus, if (and when) it breaks down or needs any kind of maintenance , how much to pay a Boss technician to come out and fix it? And if there is not a Boss dealer in your neck of the woods then what is that going to cost to have a tech fly out, get a motel, fix your lazer, then fly home... (??) Not including his meals during the voyage...
Laser Lady says soak your leather in water before laser cutting
plz prise send