Back then in brawl banned stages are just like "Meta Knight can do this cheese" "Meta Knight can do that cheese" "Meta Knight literally can't lose on this stage"
@@pulim-v The entire meta back then literally revolved around Meta Knight. Who's top tier? - Well, what characters can counter Meta Knight? What are the best stages? - What stages best limit Meta Knight's camping abilities while not restricting other characters as well? Who are the best players? - What players know the Meta Knight matchup the best? Etc.
@@pulim-v Rainbow Cruise is a stage that makes Meta Knight camping especially easy with really nothing a majority of other characters can do about it except wait for the Meta Knight player.
I do genuinely wonder why they banned Great Cave Offensive, was it the lava, the size, the minecarts, the walls, the spikes, the cannons, or the lack of side blast zones?
Snipers and rollers ran the towers. So many unforeseen deaths outa nowhere! Simple Squelcher man just tryna gun and run but end up getting towers on the rotation and being mowed down or shot from across a literal city block
@@BulletBillSoilder I believe they said back when they announced DLC for Smash Ultimate in the Direct they said it'd be through like 2021 or 2022. It seems like a lot of people forgot about that.
Mementos: it's too wide Hero's stage: there are walls at the beginning. Jigsaw Mountain: The opposite problem to Mementos. It's too narrow. Terry's stage: KILL ME, NOW!
@@Jason_Altea You forget at the end of the Terry direct they announced more DLC fighters will be released past Fighter 5. Fighter Pass #1 was only going to be through 2019-2020. They set no dates for the next one, and why I say ten is: dataminers have found out (disregarding the 11th fighter #5 slot) the roster can handle 10 more slots before it crashes. Thus, 10 more fighters, two more passes. Content up until 2023 honestly.
@@BulletBillSoilder I meant that since Fighters Pass 1 went by so quick I figured more packs would be released. But the people who were surprised by that happening seemed to forget about that.
@@stormwyvern6981 that would solve some of the problem but I wish the stage list was a bit more inclusive since the amount of stages we have in this game is exponentially larger than any other smash game
I'd actually say that having wily castle could make a HUGE difference. As an example, little mac would always want to play FD to avoid any platforms, and having the walls going down to the bottom will allow him to significantly boost his recovery since he has the best wall jump in the entire game!
fun fact about mario galaxy. It doesn't effect anything! Not even projectiles! You see you aren't actually fighting on a curved surface you're fighting on a flat surface with a fisheye effect bellow the screen. But the blast zone is actually warped. You can get hit to to the top and die from falling straight down. But your characters, though their hit boxes are unaffected, are adjusted so they don’t appear weird with tiny heads and big feet by being flattened slightly and tilted towards the camera. The result is, you are fighting on a flat stage, but your characters appearance is less accurate to the hit and hurt boxes, the higher or lower on the model. Especially with particularly tall characters, attacks that are lower look more forgiving than they are.
One big thing you're not keeping in mind for some of the statements is circle camping. Like Mushroom Kingdom U, it's large enough and the platforms are high enough where major stalling and circle camping could take place.
Arena Ferox could have decent reason to be a counterpick if Stage Hazards had a more easy toggle. Pokemon Stadium was jank, but at least it was never jank for very long at a time. The same applies to Hazards Arena Ferox. But because of the RNG, hazardless Arena Ferox could leave you with a janky stage for a whole match.
@@Robbie_Haruna No, just no. The only reason stadium is legal in melee is because there are very limited options to pick from. We shouldn't need to keep stages that "can be janky sometimes for a little bit" when there're plenty of other alternatives that just don't.
Wuhu Island & Umbra Clock Tower are actually really fun when dealing with characters that generate items (Link, DDD, K. Rool, Peach/Daisy e.t.c) because they have slants for crazy stuff. The clock for Bayo's stage actually does have some VERY slight slants on the middle. You won't notice it normally, but it's always fun when your Gordo just "randomly" starts bouncing the opposite direction. Also, despite Wuhu being a semi-solid stage, the detection for ledge grabbing is very generous. Dunno how many times I've just kinda teleported to the ledge from the middle of the slant. My only issue is that edge guarding can be difficult.
So you're telling me that you think that Unova League, a stage with ACTUAL PROBLEMS like the teleport recoveries just not working as intended and the wonky camera, is not redundant with PS1/2 because it's "different enough", meanwhile Dreamland and Yoshi's from Melee is banned for being "too similar to battlefield", when they have blastzone differences and are not broken. Cool. Not to mention that perfectly functional stages are "bad" because they have slopes or allow sharking which barely affects the game now that MK isn't broken. Still don't understand why we can't just ONCE try out more stages and give more bans to each player to make up for it. Some of the stages you think should be banned are stages that people consistently said "if only we could turn hazards off then the stage would be good!" and now that we can, we're being too restrictive with the ruleset and barely taking advantage of it.
I wish we had more stage variety skyloft is a super fun stage and i feel like being able to recover through the stage adds more than it takes away, I also love King of fighters but i get why that's banned
best comment on this vid. stages like Yoshi's story, have walls and completely different blast zones, and yoshis island brawl has only slight slants that don't affect the fairness of competitive gameplay.
Exactly. A lot of these stages are fine, but people lose it when anything unique is tried out. Lylat is fine. Yoshi's Story is fine. Hallberd could be an interesting map.
Because the blast zones and layout of Unova are actually different compared to Pokemon Stadium. Not a very large difference, but not marginal either. And by the way, the teleport problem is super easy to avoid, just don't recover directly below the stage, not something difficult to do at all. (Fun fact, it's Palutena's best stage) Also the stage doesn't have camera problems at all Fountain of Dreams and Dream Land are pretty much identical to Battlefield in every way, and the few differences they are makes them worse (Such as getting pineappled on Dream Land) Sharking and slants DO affect the game. Slants, for instance, can make many moves whiff, jablocks don't work well on them, projectiles can behave inconsistently etc. As for sharking, it completely changes the recovery process for most characters, and in a bad way Saying those things don't affect the game is a big fat lie As for trying stages, well, we did it in every game, especially in Melee the initial stage list was extremely large and stages started getting banned while the metagame progressed and these stages started to become problematic or irrelevant. With time we understood which kinds of stages do work and which don't
Y'all could treat stage changes identical to a character switch and other than that run identical to every other FG ever. So... no stage striking at all. Winner can't switch characters. Loser can switch characters or stages, not both. Your character being bad on specific stages on specific matchups can be... you know... part of the meta? If you win round 1 and they switch to a stage that your character is bad on, guess what, now they're locked in to their character so you can counterpick them. This is no different than how people counterpick with characters in every FG ever. And yes, more stages. With this ruleset and mindset you don't have to worry about stages being too similar and you can make sooooo many more stages legal. There's nothing wrong with small stages. Some characters like them. Some don't. That should be part of the meta. There's nothing wrong with uneven terrain. Some characters like uneven terrain. Some don't. That should be part of the meta. There's nothing wrong with sharking. Heck, there's nothing wrong with walk offs so long as it isn't permanent (seriously miss D-Plaza, was so fun to play and watch). Y'all are playing with SIX stages out of 109. That's really really lame. This kind of ruleset and mindset would mean that, unless you win twice in a row, you WILL be able to play on your favorite stage for your favorite character in every set. It means that you WILL have to play rounds on stages your character is known to be bad at. It also makes players a lot more likely to stay loyal to a character on a given set as they're more likely to try a different stage for round two instead of a whole new character. IMO this all would be fantastic for a competitive environment.
I have a question... are omega versions of stages or batlefield versions of stages banned? because if not, you could have pretty much any music you want, unlike in smash 4 where omega stages had some different properties (which i really like and i miss here)
Soup The exception to this is Byleth’s omega stage. The blast zones are slightly different (it is literally so minor), but it’s sometimes banned due to that inconsistency
The reason for adding ladder attacks is probably so you are no longer helpless when climbing a ladder. Sure, there aren't many stages were you can do that, but hey. We are being looked after.
Skyloft and Mushroom Kingdom U is banned because of the size as it's easy to get to long stocks and stall to much time, leading to unwanted time-outs. They are legal in doubles, at least here in Spain.
Also duck hunt is banned because it turns characters flat and it messes with Z axis. All stages that turns you flat make some moves as Ganon UpSmash function differently, so you shouldn't even take them in omega or battlefield versions, unless you want to abuse some n00b with hit boxes normally wouldn't hit.
My biggest gripe with the little stage variety is that maps tend to get old quick. It gets solved thanks to the omega versions of the maps being the same as FD, but even then many setups come locked with only the legal stages of the tournament and I've gotten bad looks from people when suggesting to play in an omega form of a different map. Why ya'll hate the stage variety? I wanna play in the psychodelia that is Mementos, damnit, FD Mementos should be fine, right?
Skyworld has the same mechanic as Magicant when the platforms are broken, if you get spiked you go right through them. It's not something recent either, it's been like that since brawl.
Some attacks that usually two-frames just can’t two-frames on Pictochat, maybe that’s why it’s not a legal stage. Unless it’s just me being unable to two-frames anyone on Pictochat, and only on that stage for some reasons...
@@temporalCaster actually it just alters hitboxes. For some reason the hitboxes have a 3D element to them, it’s why DK’s Giant Punch whiffs so often for example, it’s hitting to the side of the opponent rather than dead on. The 2D stages flatten these hitboxes, meaning they stay in the plane the fighters are in for longer
For everyone who complains about "oh this is too different and this is too similar" well if your strategy is obnoxious (such as stalling and circle camping) and no one is having fun, but you win, it's alright as long as it's tournament legal, and for that reason, they ban stages such as GCO and 75m. The "too similar" part is because of when you want to ban something. If there are 3 different versions of Battlefield and you don't want to play on it, your ban will not matter and you will have to play on it. Also Hero is ok dude. Edited for better grammar and to make it coherent
Arena Ferox and Tomodachi Life were actually legal in Smash 4 (on the 3DS)... Prism Tower was as well, but it’s also still legal in some places for Ultimate I believe.
Some of these stages prove a update that could help legalize more stages, for any side scrolling stage or transformation stage it would be nice to make it so it doesn’t change and you can pick which section you would like, would allow for some stages like 3D land to be legal, also stages with random layouts could allow you to pick the layout and add more options
5:28 it is the only stage with stage hazards off (to my own knowledge) but on Skyworld once you destroy the platforms, there are clouds which have this property. There is also the cloud on Summit, and the clouds on Super happy tree, but I’m pretty sure the latter doesn’t do that. (The property of spiking through the stage, for those too lazy to rewind.)
We actually tried Skyloft in the Netherlands, and I really liked it! It's just that the majority of people didn't like it so much that they gave in to their whining.
I know that this is a super late reply, but this always annoys me. That is an intented mechanic to do with the way teleport recoveries work. It's not really jank, and it's easy to play around
Unova has the unfortunate issue where telopor recoveries just don't work on one of the ledges sometimes which is the main reason it got banned in most regions if I understand correctly
Now that they announced that they're no longer making DLC and thus no longer making stages, I'd be curious to revisit the new stages based on these criteria. Like, KoF has "walls" but not really
One thing I'm sad you didn't mention with Unova is that it screws teleport characters. They can't recover low because the stage geometry is poorly designed and their teleports slide across and away from the stage, causing an SD. It's a counterplay pick opportunity but in a really lame way, in my opinion.
One time i was playing the mario maker stage and the random generation was just Final Destination, but the entire middle of the stage was lava. It was fun.
Rekzius "...There are only like two stages that actually have [ladders]..." (Referring to Wrecking Crew and 75M.) Palutena's Temple: Am I a joke to you?
From what I know, Unova is banned because some characters, specifically those with teleports, are known to accidentally SD due to how the bottom of the stage is shapped. The teleport, that normally hugs the wall if angled towards it, actually can occasionally launch the player further from stage instead of towards ledge, leading into an unfair SD.
The thing I dont get about banning the stage because of this, is that for most characters this isnt even a problem. Plus, you can play around it if you dont hug the wall. And If you really dont like it you can always just ban it, that's how counter-picking works
@@omarabdulkarim8236 First of all, I love your pfp! Second, it's not necessarily the fact that you can ban it. With all the tournaments I've been to, most people didn't mind it. The issue is that when you do play, you don't always get to control where you fly off of stage. I've had situations where I'd get stage spiked, only to tech underneath the stage, but since I've already used a second jump I'd have no other option than to gamble with the stage and pray it didn't launch me away while teleporting. It's not whether or not you can ban it, it's more of the fact that if it happens, and both you and your opponent cringe and go "ooooo", you know you have an unfair issue with a stage. Yes banning it is an option, but it shouldn't be a ban you always go to just because of a glitch. Especially if it's something that potentially forces you out of a character. Most players are one trick ponies with their mains after all.
@@Sgt_Viper000 Thanks! I like yours too Super Paper Mario is a really good game. I agree with this sentiment and I understand why youd want to ban the stage permanently, but the thing is, how come in ultimate you ban stuff like that (which can be avoided some of the time and only affects a handful of characters) but in a game like Melee Pokemon stadium is perfectly ok (and I realise melee had a much smaller stage list). I feel like banning a stage for something which rarely comes up (this is coming from someone who plays quite a lot of Palu and Zelda) is silly when keeping it adds variety and another stage to the very small list
@@omarabdulkarim8236 I think that may be the exact reason why it's like that for Melee. (Though Smash 64's only legal map is Dreamland.) As for Ultimate, I think it goes back to the whole ome trick poney thing. Where some players don't want to have to switch to someone else, just because someone wants to choose that stage, or worse having to use up a ban on a stage that they can do fine on, but just don't want to risk a death due to a glitch. It also makes edge guards easier too since all you have to do is trap the opponent under that location.
The weirdest thing about the Spirit Tracks stage is the fact that a smalm boy in a (admittedly sacred) train goes almost twice as fast as HYPERSONIC RACE VEHICLES.
OK, so fun fact about Midgar. I was playing doubles with my dad, me playing as Byleth, and I tried to jump onto the platforms to use faiflnaught along the top, while dad covered the bottom. I did a jump, then pressed b, then shot my dad in the back. I was confused and thought I short hopped. I try it again, same result. After the game, I go to battlefield, and do the same thing (jump, then use failnaught). I landed on the platform. Apparently, Midgar's platforms are slightly higher than battlefield's platforms. Also, what stages are tame enough to at least consider testing with hazards on? No one seems to be talking about it, and I think more people should embrace a little chaos. Could you do a video on that?
Umbra clock tower also has visual problems. The background isn't the problem tho, it's the clock itself. Snake's c4 and grenades blend right into the stage so you can't see where they are and neither can he unless the c4 flashes. You run the risk as snake of blowing yourself up and other players will probably blow themselves up during combos because of s grenade they literally can't see.
Yeah, you can make Ridley's throat explode if you smack him in the face while he's charging his neutral special. *It's almost like Glavenus from Monster Hunter...*
I am watching this right after a similar video on melee stages and i have to say the difference in philosophy is crazy. Ultimate: "this stage is good but we have so many that the tiny details make it pointless to add" Melee: "unban poke floats, I dare you"
the funny part is, even when every stage has a battlefield and final destination version, players still choose the default ones, which tells me theyre not really in for variety anyways.
Living Room with hazards off actually does change something. With hazards on, the raining down blocks appear multiple times, which changes the layout constantly throughout the match. With hazards off, it only rains down the blocks once and stays like that for the rest of the game.
Here's a reference for ideas on what would be some interesting stages (if mods were a thing for competitive): Subspace Emissary's False Character stages in The Great Maze.
Streetpass™ Quest is the best stage just for its name. It's the only stage with a trademark/copyright symbol, right? Also, only appears when you set the console region to Europe/Australia and language to English.
If you play Living Room with hazards off, the blocks and stuff fall. But the difference is that they NEVER disappear. I accidentally found that out when playing with friends
blast zone size is a huge factor i feel like wasn't talked about enough. mushroom kingdom u and wuhu island have ridiculously tall ceilings, to the point where it's nearly impossible to kill off the top at reasonable percents. meanwhile, tomodachi life and (to a lesser extent) skyloft have super cramped blast zones that make the game way more volatile. i consider it more of a consideration than slants (i have more issues with yoshi's island's blast zones than the slants tbh)
3:42 Except it's not legal because apparently the slope of the "sides" cause teleport recoveries to fling away from the ledge and sd if you try to ride the wall. But honestly, who cares? I'd like to have more wall ledges for recovery purposes because of right now, Yoshis and Kalos are the only ones and I think it would make for an interesting counterpick. If anything, replace Lylat with it lol.
Mushroom Kingdom U is too big and the bottom blastzone is too high, plus asymmetry will give an advantage to whichever player spawns on the better side.
Honestly, Ladder attacks were probably added because of custom stages. I trolled the heck out of my friend when Brawl was new by making a stage that was nothing but ladders.
Fun Fact: Pac-Land’s autoscroll depends on if a character is at the edge of the screen. If they’re falling behind, the autoscroll will slow down so they can catch up!
4:05 you forgot to talk about the fact that teleport recoveries don't work from below the ledge tho. as a zelda main, im so glad my locals banned this one.
I know that this is a super late reply, but this always annoys me. That is an intented mechanic to do with the way teleport recoveries work. It's not really jank, and it's easy to play around imo
Unova is often banned due to teleports though, the slant underneath makes them fly sideways which makes it less often than even some jankier stages like lylat
Back then in brawl banned stages are just like
"Meta Knight can do this cheese"
"Meta Knight can do that cheese"
"Meta Knight literally can't lose on this stage"
Reminder that Rainbow Cruise was literally only eventually banned because Meta Knight existed.
@@Robbie_Haruna ok wth
@@pulim-v
The entire meta back then literally revolved around Meta Knight.
Who's top tier? - Well, what characters can counter Meta Knight?
What are the best stages? - What stages best limit Meta Knight's camping abilities while not restricting other characters as well?
Who are the best players? - What players know the Meta Knight matchup the best?
Etc.
@@Jason_Altea yeah I know, but like why was Rainbow Cruise bannee
@@pulim-v
Rainbow Cruise is a stage that makes Meta Knight camping especially easy with really nothing a majority of other characters can do about it except wait for the Meta Knight player.
I do genuinely wonder why they banned Great Cave Offensive, was it the lava, the size, the minecarts, the walls, the spikes, the cannons, or the lack of side blast zones?
it was all two of those issues
Huh?, I thought it was Legal!
I think it's because of the Waluigi cameo, that's it.
It's the copyright for the persona music playing, duh
Clearly because its offensive
“Moray Towers is just too vertical”
Splatoon players: I know that feel
E-Liters. E-Liters everywhere
Onyxs Siege of Shangai:First time?
Tru dat
Snipers and rollers ran the towers. So many unforeseen deaths outa nowhere!
Simple Squelcher man just tryna gun and run but end up getting towers on the rotation and being mowed down or shot from across a literal city block
I loved that stage as a roller main but dang, you couldn't go anywhere *near* the middle if there was an E-Liter on the other team...
The reason living room is banned is the puppie’s cuteness is too distracting
Yes
the puppy may boost the morale of dog-lovers, so it's banned due to unfair advantage.
@@ona512 but there is a chance for a cat so even matchup
I think it's because it cause a trauma to former Brawl players
No, the stage is distracting us from the puppy
"I think I'll wait till all the DLC stages are out"
Welp, see ya in two years then...
Yeah... seeming as we're going to get ten more fighters after Fighter 5... probably should split those up by pass.
@@BulletBillSoilder
I believe they said back when they announced DLC for Smash Ultimate in the Direct they said it'd be through like 2021 or 2022. It seems like a lot of people forgot about that.
Mementos: it's too wide
Hero's stage: there are walls at the beginning.
Jigsaw Mountain: The opposite problem to Mementos. It's too narrow.
Terry's stage: KILL ME, NOW!
@@Jason_Altea You forget at the end of the Terry direct they announced more DLC fighters will be released past Fighter 5. Fighter Pass #1 was only going to be through 2019-2020. They set no dates for the next one, and why I say ten is: dataminers have found out (disregarding the 11th fighter #5 slot) the roster can handle 10 more slots before it crashes. Thus, 10 more fighters, two more passes. Content up until 2023 honestly.
@@BulletBillSoilder
I meant that since Fighters Pass 1 went by so quick I figured more packs would be released. But the people who were surprised by that happening seemed to forget about that.
9:54 we just gon pretend the com didn't just sauce you up
Fr tho, that was clean
I think Mewtwo is a good counter to Terry
512 fun fact: if terry is going to aggressive as mewtwo literally just spam down b
@@anthonystone9897 Interesting advice, but what do you mean by "going to aggressive as mewtwo"?
@@ona512 they misspelled too and there's a missing comma between aggresive and as
"Umbra Clock Tower's just Final Destination with severe vertigo" is going to be the best line I've ever heard this year.
Imagine getting distracted by umbra clock tower. Like just tech your eyes 4head
I feel repeat stages and ones that aren't as bad should be legal for music variety
just play bf/omega form
You can just use Battlefield or Final Destination forms. Almost all of then are legal
Repeat stages are bad for competitive because then you would essentially have to strike two stages to get rid of one
EForEveryone Couldnt you just group them together?
@@stormwyvern6981 that would solve some of the problem but I wish the stage list was a bit more inclusive since the amount of stages we have in this game is exponentially larger than any other smash game
I'd actually say that having wily castle could make a HUGE difference. As an example, little mac would always want to play FD to avoid any platforms, and having the walls going down to the bottom will allow him to significantly boost his recovery since he has the best wall jump in the entire game!
Thats one mu if im fighting someone good on fd i shouldnt have to use a ban on 2 very similar stages
Lucario has a better wall jump but otherwise you're right
found the little mac main
side note: pokemon stadium 1 walls lead directly to pineapple
But Kalos is better for Mac
Nintendo: we made a way to turn hazards off!
Tournaments: we shall make the rules stricter
No it's just the hazardless stages are inconsistent and don't change enough to be relevant
fun fact about mario galaxy.
It doesn't effect anything! Not even projectiles! You see you aren't actually fighting on a curved surface you're fighting on a flat surface with a fisheye effect bellow the screen.
But the blast zone is actually warped. You can get hit to to the top and die from falling straight down. But your characters, though their hit boxes are unaffected, are adjusted so they don’t appear weird with tiny heads and big feet by being flattened slightly and tilted towards the camera.
The result is, you are fighting on a flat stage, but your characters appearance is less accurate to the hit and hurt boxes, the higher or lower on the model. Especially with particularly tall characters, attacks that are lower look more forgiving than they are.
Actually some projectiles arch
@@thedangerstrangeruk Arching would mean flying strait on that map, the weird ones are the ones that still fly strait.
Hearing the words "Walk off" so many times makes the words sound more weird now.
Jamais vu
Semantic satiation
It should be a drinking game.
wall cough
*_[ W A L K O F F ]_*
The falcon missing 2 f smashes in a row at 6:18 had me rolling
I love the "Nice" he put in both times he missed
One big thing you're not keeping in mind for some of the statements is circle camping.
Like Mushroom Kingdom U, it's large enough and the platforms are high enough where major stalling and circle camping could take place.
Storms?
@@Moss_Dude *platforms. Not sure how I got storms lol
Circle Camping was mentioned in the last video. Not too many stages have incredible circle camping potential though.
Ban circle camping
The problem with Arena Ferox is that it picks a stage layout at random. "Cries in pokemon stadium legality in melee"
Arena Ferox could have decent reason to be a counterpick if Stage Hazards had a more easy toggle.
Pokemon Stadium was jank, but at least it was never jank for very long at a time. The same applies to Hazards Arena Ferox.
But because of the RNG, hazardless Arena Ferox could leave you with a janky stage for a whole match.
@@Robbie_Haruna No, just no. The only reason stadium is legal in melee is because there are very limited options to pick from. We shouldn't need to keep stages that "can be janky sometimes for a little bit" when there're plenty of other alternatives that just don't.
Pokemon stadium in melee is the best map.
It's the only wacky map in the game.
It's Jank but then again, melee is Jank.
“This is why you Magican’t play on it”
I’m really glad you just moved forward, I hate when people point out puns, it really ruins them
interesting life bro
Kyriethegoat yeah it’s great
The ladder update would have been great for subspace emisary
Wuhu Island & Umbra Clock Tower are actually really fun when dealing with characters that generate items (Link, DDD, K. Rool, Peach/Daisy e.t.c) because they have slants for crazy stuff.
The clock for Bayo's stage actually does have some VERY slight slants on the middle. You won't notice it normally, but it's always fun when your Gordo just "randomly" starts bouncing the opposite direction.
Also, despite Wuhu being a semi-solid stage, the detection for ledge grabbing is very generous. Dunno how many times I've just kinda teleported to the ledge from the middle of the slant. My only issue is that edge guarding can be difficult.
Legalize wuhu island
Legalize Wuhu Island
Legalize Wuhu Island so we can have Megalovania in tournaments.
12:15 underrated joke tbh
that joke went right over my head... i'll see myself out.
I don’t get it :/
@@crispyhd935 it's the sides of palu's head, which are also called the temples
So you're telling me that you think that Unova League, a stage with ACTUAL PROBLEMS like the teleport recoveries just not working as intended and the wonky camera, is not redundant with PS1/2 because it's "different enough", meanwhile Dreamland and Yoshi's from Melee is banned for being "too similar to battlefield", when they have blastzone differences and are not broken. Cool.
Not to mention that perfectly functional stages are "bad" because they have slopes or allow sharking which barely affects the game now that MK isn't broken.
Still don't understand why we can't just ONCE try out more stages and give more bans to each player to make up for it. Some of the stages you think should be banned are stages that people consistently said "if only we could turn hazards off then the stage would be good!" and now that we can, we're being too restrictive with the ruleset and barely taking advantage of it.
I wish we had more stage variety skyloft is a super fun stage and i feel like being able to recover through the stage adds more than it takes away, I also love King of fighters but i get why that's banned
best comment on this vid. stages like Yoshi's story, have walls and completely different blast zones, and yoshis island brawl has only slight slants that don't affect the fairness of competitive gameplay.
Exactly. A lot of these stages are fine, but people lose it when anything unique is tried out. Lylat is fine. Yoshi's Story is fine. Hallberd could be an interesting map.
Because the blast zones and layout of Unova are actually different compared to Pokemon Stadium. Not a very large difference, but not marginal either.
And by the way, the teleport problem is super easy to avoid, just don't recover directly below the stage, not something difficult to do at all. (Fun fact, it's Palutena's best stage)
Also the stage doesn't have camera problems at all
Fountain of Dreams and Dream Land are pretty much identical to Battlefield in every way, and the few differences they are makes them worse (Such as getting pineappled on Dream Land)
Sharking and slants DO affect the game. Slants, for instance, can make many moves whiff, jablocks don't work well on them, projectiles can behave inconsistently etc.
As for sharking, it completely changes the recovery process for most characters, and in a bad way
Saying those things don't affect the game is a big fat lie
As for trying stages, well, we did it in every game, especially in Melee the initial stage list was extremely large and stages started getting banned while the metagame progressed and these stages started to become problematic or irrelevant. With time we understood which kinds of stages do work and which don't
*BuT tHe RuLeS sA-*
Y'all could treat stage changes identical to a character switch and other than that run identical to every other FG ever.
So... no stage striking at all. Winner can't switch characters. Loser can switch characters or stages, not both. Your character being bad on specific stages on specific matchups can be... you know... part of the meta?
If you win round 1 and they switch to a stage that your character is bad on, guess what, now they're locked in to their character so you can counterpick them. This is no different than how people counterpick with characters in every FG ever.
And yes, more stages. With this ruleset and mindset you don't have to worry about stages being too similar and you can make sooooo many more stages legal.
There's nothing wrong with small stages. Some characters like them. Some don't. That should be part of the meta. There's nothing wrong with uneven terrain. Some characters like uneven terrain. Some don't. That should be part of the meta. There's nothing wrong with sharking. Heck, there's nothing wrong with walk offs so long as it isn't permanent (seriously miss D-Plaza, was so fun to play and watch).
Y'all are playing with SIX stages out of 109. That's really really lame.
This kind of ruleset and mindset would mean that, unless you win twice in a row, you WILL be able to play on your favorite stage for your favorite character in every set. It means that you WILL have to play rounds on stages your character is known to be bad at. It also makes players a lot more likely to stay loyal to a character on a given set as they're more likely to try a different stage for round two instead of a whole new character.
IMO this all would be fantastic for a competitive environment.
Walk off: _exists_
Rekzius: *BANNED*
Which is faster?
A: What's basically the combination of a race car and a jet plane designed for going as fast as possible
B: A train
I have a question... are omega versions of stages or batlefield versions of stages banned? because if not, you could have pretty much any music you want, unlike in smash 4 where omega stages had some different properties (which i really like and i miss here)
Omegas and battlefield versions of stages are legal
Soup The exception to this is Byleth’s omega stage. The blast zones are slightly different (it is literally so minor), but it’s sometimes banned due to that inconsistency
@@AlisterCountel I believe they actually fixed that in a recent patch.
Palutena's Temple has a latter as well. It's just one, but it's there.
"Considering there are six new stages to be added in later DLC"
Me: what do you mean? What do you know that I don't?
The reason for adding ladder attacks is probably so you are no longer helpless when climbing a ladder. Sure, there aren't many stages were you can do that, but hey. We are being looked after.
"Sometimes walk-offs can be your friend."
*Laughs in Ridley Side-B*
Skyloft and Mushroom Kingdom U is banned because of the size as it's easy to get to long stocks and stall to much time, leading to unwanted time-outs. They are legal in doubles, at least here in Spain.
Also duck hunt is banned because it turns characters flat and it messes with Z axis. All stages that turns you flat make some moves as Ganon UpSmash function differently, so you shouldn't even take them in omega or battlefield versions, unless you want to abuse some n00b with hit boxes normally wouldn't hit.
My biggest gripe with the little stage variety is that maps tend to get old quick.
It gets solved thanks to the omega versions of the maps being the same as FD, but even then many setups come locked with only the legal stages of the tournament and I've gotten bad looks from people when suggesting to play in an omega form of a different map.
Why ya'll hate the stage variety? I wanna play in the psychodelia that is Mementos, damnit, FD Mementos should be fine, right?
9:15 "perhaps in a different life"
I'm pretty sure Tomodachi Life was legal at some point in the 3DS era iirc
Skyworld has the same mechanic as Magicant when the platforms are broken, if you get spiked you go right through them. It's not something recent either, it's been like that since brawl.
Some attacks that usually two-frames just can’t two-frames on Pictochat, maybe that’s why it’s not a legal stage. Unless it’s just me being unable to two-frames anyone on Pictochat, and only on that stage for some reasons...
Worth noting that stages like Duck Hunt don’t have a z axis, which does alter gameplay
By making distances between characters, projectiles, and generated items generally easier due to a lack of perspective foreshortening?
@@temporalCaster actually it just alters hitboxes. For some reason the hitboxes have a 3D element to them, it’s why DK’s Giant Punch whiffs so often for example, it’s hitting to the side of the opponent rather than dead on. The 2D stages flatten these hitboxes, meaning they stay in the plane the fighters are in for longer
For everyone who complains about "oh this is too different and this is too similar" well if your strategy is obnoxious (such as stalling and circle camping) and no one is having fun, but you win, it's alright as long as it's tournament legal, and for that reason, they ban stages such as GCO and 75m. The "too similar" part is because of when you want to ban something. If there are 3 different versions of Battlefield and you don't want to play on it, your ban will not matter and you will have to play on it.
Also Hero is ok dude.
Edited for better grammar and to make it coherent
yes lets take formatting advice from SirdabsaLoT1 YT
@@sirdabsalot1yt83 thanks! English is not my first language so I still have to learn a lot of stuff, but thanks either way :)
@@dmign eh it's alright
Wouldn’t it be possible to clump stages under "Battlefield"? I assume that isn’t hard since they already did that for banning.
@@eddiemate you mean like, a Battlefield version of a stage?
I wonder if Rekzius legitimately froths at the mouth whenever someone says the word "slants" to him.
Arena Ferox and Tomodachi Life were actually legal in Smash 4 (on the 3DS)... Prism Tower was as well, but it’s also still legal in some places for Ultimate I believe.
Some of these stages prove a update that could help legalize more stages, for any side scrolling stage or transformation stage it would be nice to make it so it doesn’t change and you can pick which section you would like, would allow for some stages like 3D land to be legal, also stages with random layouts could allow you to pick the layout and add more options
5:28 it is the only stage with stage hazards off (to my own knowledge) but on Skyworld once you destroy the platforms, there are clouds which have this property. There is also the cloud on Summit, and the clouds on Super happy tree, but I’m pretty sure the latter doesn’t do that.
(The property of spiking through the stage, for those too lazy to rewind.)
We actually tried Skyloft in the Netherlands, and I really liked it! It's just that the majority of people didn't like it so much that they gave in to their whining.
Not gonna talk about the teleportation problem of Unova?
*Zelda Mewtwo and Palutena mains will remember that*
I know that this is a super late reply, but this always annoys me. That is an intented mechanic to do with the way teleport recoveries work. It's not really jank, and it's easy to play around
Not their fault that you guys try to recover so far down that you go under the curve that’s at the bottom of the stage
That's why it would be a Counterpick.
I think your initial list of criteria should have included "walk-offs", given how frequently you mentioned them.
Welcome back to "I hate slants" Part Two
Nah its just walk offs
"I Hate Slants 2: Walk-off Boogaloo"
Drinking game: take a shot every time he says “walk-off”.
17:45 Your pronunciation of "Suzaku castle" is perfect
“Some stages can drag matches out very long”
*he says while playing a 99 stock game*
Unova has the unfortunate issue where telopor recoveries just don't work on one of the ledges sometimes which is the main reason it got banned in most regions if I understand correctly
Every teleport recovery except Palu and Sheik’s works fine on Unova
@@shieldlesscap6124 and mewtwo
Now that they announced that they're no longer making DLC and thus no longer making stages, I'd be curious to revisit the new stages based on these criteria. Like, KoF has "walls" but not really
One thing I'm sad you didn't mention with Unova is that it screws teleport characters. They can't recover low because the stage geometry is poorly designed and their teleports slide across and away from the stage, causing an SD. It's a counterplay pick opportunity but in a really lame way, in my opinion.
I was literally JUST watching the first one and was wondering when the next one would come out. Keep it up, vro.
Unova: "Will probably be legal for quite a while"
*got banned literally a month later*
One time i was playing the mario maker stage and the random generation was just Final Destination, but the entire middle of the stage was lava. It was fun.
Rekzius "...There are only like two stages that actually have [ladders]..." (Referring to Wrecking Crew and 75M.)
Palutena's Temple: Am I a joke to you?
Correction:
Midgar's plateforms have slightly different hight, Nothing really special, but can change some things
We need to petition nintendo to make arena ferox always have the statue form for hazardless.
From what I know, Unova is banned because some characters, specifically those with teleports, are known to accidentally SD due to how the bottom of the stage is shapped. The teleport, that normally hugs the wall if angled towards it, actually can occasionally launch the player further from stage instead of towards ledge, leading into an unfair SD.
The thing I dont get about banning the stage because of this, is that for most characters this isnt even a problem. Plus, you can play around it if you dont hug the wall. And If you really dont like it you can always just ban it, that's how counter-picking works
@@omarabdulkarim8236 First of all, I love your pfp! Second, it's not necessarily the fact that you can ban it. With all the tournaments I've been to, most people didn't mind it. The issue is that when you do play, you don't always get to control where you fly off of stage. I've had situations where I'd get stage spiked, only to tech underneath the stage, but since I've already used a second jump I'd have no other option than to gamble with the stage and pray it didn't launch me away while teleporting. It's not whether or not you can ban it, it's more of the fact that if it happens, and both you and your opponent cringe and go "ooooo", you know you have an unfair issue with a stage. Yes banning it is an option, but it shouldn't be a ban you always go to just because of a glitch. Especially if it's something that potentially forces you out of a character. Most players are one trick ponies with their mains after all.
@@Sgt_Viper000 Thanks! I like yours too Super Paper Mario is a really good game. I agree with this sentiment and I understand why youd want to ban the stage permanently, but the thing is, how come in ultimate you ban stuff like that (which can be avoided some of the time and only affects a handful of characters) but in a game like Melee Pokemon stadium is perfectly ok (and I realise melee had a much smaller stage list). I feel like banning a stage for something which rarely comes up (this is coming from someone who plays quite a lot of Palu and Zelda) is silly when keeping it adds variety and another stage to the very small list
@@omarabdulkarim8236 I think that may be the exact reason why it's like that for Melee. (Though Smash 64's only legal map is Dreamland.) As for Ultimate, I think it goes back to the whole ome trick poney thing. Where some players don't want to have to switch to someone else, just because someone wants to choose that stage, or worse having to use up a ban on a stage that they can do fine on, but just don't want to risk a death due to a glitch. It also makes edge guards easier too since all you have to do is trap the opponent under that location.
@@Sgt_Viper000 Its not a glitch that's how teleport recoverys work.
18:07 "Lack of Music Priority." That aged like wine.
19:20 vertically
12:14 I see what you did there
The weirdest thing about the Spirit Tracks stage is the fact that a smalm boy in a (admittedly sacred) train goes almost twice as fast as HYPERSONIC RACE VEHICLES.
Also, 2D stages are banned bc janky hitboxes. Even on FD/BF.
OK, so fun fact about Midgar. I was playing doubles with my dad, me playing as Byleth, and I tried to jump onto the platforms to use faiflnaught along the top, while dad covered the bottom. I did a jump, then pressed b, then shot my dad in the back. I was confused and thought I short hopped. I try it again, same result. After the game, I go to battlefield, and do the same thing (jump, then use failnaught). I landed on the platform. Apparently, Midgar's platforms are slightly higher than battlefield's platforms.
Also, what stages are tame enough to at least consider testing with hazards on? No one seems to be talking about it, and I think more people should embrace a little chaos. Could you do a video on that?
Umbra clock tower also has visual problems. The background isn't the problem tho, it's the clock itself. Snake's c4 and grenades blend right into the stage so you can't see where they are and neither can he unless the c4 flashes. You run the risk as snake of blowing yourself up and other players will probably blow themselves up during combos because of s grenade they literally can't see.
13:18
never seen this animation with ridley
Yeah, you can make Ridley's throat explode if you smack him in the face while he's charging his neutral special.
*It's almost like Glavenus from Monster Hunter...*
@@LloydTheZephyrian almost
This Specific Smash Ultimate Video and Why It Was Reuploaded
what
I am watching this right after a similar video on melee stages and i have to say the difference in philosophy is crazy.
Ultimate: "this stage is good but we have so many that the tiny details make it pointless to add"
Melee: "unban poke floats, I dare you"
The second blank spot on the bottom right is for custom stages when selecting the option for random stages
Just came to your channel finished part one and was just looking for part 2.
the funny part is, even when every stage has a battlefield and final destination version, players still choose the default ones, which tells me theyre not really in for variety anyways.
glad to see part 2 lol, forgot this series even existed
Competitive players really fear a light sprinkling of black pepper, huh?
Living Room with hazards off actually does change something. With hazards on, the raining down blocks appear multiple times, which changes the layout constantly throughout the match. With hazards off, it only rains down the blocks once and stays like that for the rest of the game.
I thought TH-cam notifications were being weird again
Alright guess I'll rewatch it~
Here's a reference for ideas on what would be some interesting stages (if mods were a thing for competitive): Subspace Emissary's False Character stages in The Great Maze.
Streetpass™ Quest is the best stage just for its name. It's the only stage with a trademark/copyright symbol, right? Also, only appears when you set the console region to Europe/Australia and language to English.
all in all ultimate needs a "substage select" for stages with multiple phases, in addition to it's hazzards toggle
As a competitive smash player, this series is so entertaining
If you play Living Room with hazards off, the blocks and stuff fall. But the difference is that they NEVER disappear. I accidentally found that out when playing with friends
blast zone size is a huge factor i feel like wasn't talked about enough. mushroom kingdom u and wuhu island have ridiculously tall ceilings, to the point where it's nearly impossible to kill off the top at reasonable percents. meanwhile, tomodachi life and (to a lesser extent) skyloft have super cramped blast zones that make the game way more volatile. i consider it more of a consideration than slants (i have more issues with yoshi's island's blast zones than the slants tbh)
JUST BECAUSE IT"S IRRELEVANT, DOESN'T MEAN IT SHOULDN'T BE USED!!!! Someone needs to tell this to whoever moderates stages
3:42 Except it's not legal because apparently the slope of the "sides" cause teleport recoveries to fling away from the ledge and sd if you try to ride the wall. But honestly, who cares? I'd like to have more wall ledges for recovery purposes because of right now, Yoshis and Kalos are the only ones and I think it would make for an interesting counterpick. If anything, replace Lylat with it lol.
Mushroom kingdom U.
“I’m not entirely sure why we didn’t atleast try to play on”
Proceeds to die at 80% from backthrow
He was DI'ing straight into the blastzone. Even without DI terry won't be dying at 85% to a back throw.
Mushroom Kingdom U is too big and the bottom blastzone is too high, plus asymmetry will give an advantage to whichever player spawns on the better side.
6:39 *Reset bomb forest
Honestly, Ladder attacks were probably added because of custom stages. I trolled the heck out of my friend when Brawl was new by making a stage that was nothing but ladders.
Fun Fact: Pac-Land’s autoscroll depends on if a character is at the edge of the screen. If they’re falling behind, the autoscroll will slow down so they can catch up!
I was so confused for a second.
Uh why?
That first gameplay of hero vs incineroar at 1:23 was painful to watch
I just found the original video (and your channel) a few days ago and subbed. Glad to see my subscription already getting value
Hello Rekzius! I am here to remind you that you said you would do a part 3 for the DLC stages. Thanks!
4:05 you forgot to talk about the fact that teleport recoveries don't work from below the ledge tho. as a zelda main, im so glad my locals banned this one.
I know that this is a super late reply, but this always annoys me. That is an intented mechanic to do with the way teleport recoveries work. It's not really jank, and it's easy to play around imo
You: Competitive Smash
The guy she tells you not to worry about: 17:14
Nice! Could you also do a video explaining why every custom stage is banned?
Unova is often banned due to teleports though, the slant underneath makes them fly sideways which makes it less often than even some jankier stages like lylat
LEGALIZE WUHU ISLAND
Mushroom Kingdom U is banned because of how large it is. Can easily be used by faster characters to avoid getting hit.
Unova's banned because teleport recoveries don't work on it
it's not banned everywhere, unova is one ofthose stages that's still in that grey area, same with Yoshi's Brawl
Untill all of the Ultimate DLC stages are done, how about you make a video about every single Custom Stage in existence?
Every time I see Pac Land I am reminded that we got this stage ported instead of the pac maze 3ds stage and get sad