Three things: 1. The Priority you're talking about is just the additional stagger property that this counter has, it has a 1.4x dmg multiplier, and also has full intangibility until the end of the counter's hitbox which also grows in size as the hitbox is out 2. The counter hits below ledge and can screw up some characters' recoveries (Such as King K Rool's Up B) 3. It also has some unique properties for some characters, like B&K's Wonderwing (Staggers & counters) and Charizard's Side B (The game treats it like a projectile and has barely any start-up because Sora's counter has effectively 2 different start ups depending on if its a projectile or a direct hit, and keeps Charizard along his current course while dealing kb at the same time)
"It can't be a coincidence that they called it *Sonic* Blade" Shockingly though it is. Sora actually learns the Sonic Blade move from Cloud (funny right? lol) in the KH games xD. Although it would make for a funny meme if Sonic said he taught Sora the Homming Attack xD
"Sora doesn't have any dlc mechanics." His mechanic is him being in the game in the first place JOKE ALERT SINCE PEOPLE ON THE INTERNET TAKE STUFF TOO SERIOUSLY
And Nate Lecard said "Loops for Days". Both of you are brilliant and make sense. And to be honest, his mechanic is probably how unique of a character he feels like.
@@PotofGlue double jump… ehhh, looks like Ness and Lucas’s. Haven’t played him yet personally because I haven’t had time. But that definitely looks like that jump was stolen.
Yeah part of the whole thing with the keyblade is how it emits energy and stuff, most of its range and power comes from that rather than the physical keyblade itself.
Now I know it wasn't only hurtbox shifting making my moves whiff against Sora's Dsmash haha Thanks for the shout-out, by the way! Happy to help with my modded switch any time
@@velvetbutterfly i think the art of comedy is lost on you. Also the point is that he's very floaty, not that he doesn't have tools to get back to stage
@@illford you made no attempt to make a joke, all you did was complain you personally can't get back to the ground. If you were trying to be comical there were better ways of making the same joke
The point of the trailing hitboxes on moves like jab1 and up air (the actual trailing one, not the fat blob at the start) is to give the move the feeling of being more active without making it last for a year. Remember that hitbox interpolation exists, so the actual active area on each frame is pretty massive and trails just behind the blade to match the particle effect.
The Down Smash intangibility doesn't seem too egregious when you see at K. Rool or Incineroar leaping much higher than Sora seems to do. If you compare the visuals, he does just a tiny hop, but if you compare the hitboxes, the full body (and then leg) intangibility probably compensates for not jumping as high.
To be fair, K. Rool and Incineroar are way bigger than Sora. Not to mention that Sora doesn't attack with his own body like the others do, which means that he can't be attacked with a down tilt or down smash, while the heavis can be hit. And the last thing is that Sora's down smash has like no end lag...at all. Definitely a better down smash than those two.
It doesn't seem bad until you realize he will have the worst case of spot dodge to DSmash. And Sure K Rool and Incin jump higher but it can still be hit. That invul can be used to avoid even some forward attacks like Marth ftilt which covers a pretty wide area. There are still some advantages for incin and K rool but compared to Sora, it's not much better. K Rool is at least compensated with belly armor
4:02 this has to do with the move's interaction with items and stage hazards that you can "send". They are meant to have a different effect than when hitting opponents.
His cheap DLC mechanic is how his various almost acceptable DLC mechanics interact. His supposedly inescapable nair loop can take you from 0% to 90%, his down smash safely hits below the ledge, he can easily ladder you off the top of the screen, his freeze is wonky good, some of his attacks are active for longer than you'd think and get hit boxes filling empty space just because, ... The silliest thing though is that all those DLC goodies might not matter in the long run, just because it still might not measure up to what others are capable of.
Agreed. Sora works up to be a big carry because of this. Shows how little practice you need with him to take stocks. This irks me because there's because there's other characters.....(Ryu) (Meta Knight) ...and more I cant think that require some decent amount of practice, just to net the same results. An imbalanced mess really
@@skeletorthebest7204 that literally doesn't make it a sword lol. Obviously they weren't going to have an entire new class of spirits just for blunt weapons when nobody else uses them.
@@Robbie_Haruna True true, I'll give you that, but still, about what xigbar said and how Sora defeated roxas, it is more about a magical cut even if they aren't sharp (most of them) but still, If it wasn't a sword why refer to it as keyblade if it is used and treated as one ?
It's nice to see this type of video her and there, and I'm very happy that Sora is in Smash now On other note, it would be interesting to see a video where you show the moves that had more hitboxes in the game, or just very weird ones
The down-smash invulnerability isn't exactly excessive. Samurai did specify the move is good at beating low attacks much like incineroar's and k.rool's down-smashes. I guess they just really wanted to make sure it functioned as intended. Maybe full body invulnerability is a bit much but it's fine.
holy shit that mod!! I want to see that footage for everything. you can finally recognize association to particle effects and asset scaling and weapons. also I think a few of soras moves have a slight tipper mechanic.
7:10 probably forgot to mention how Sora's fair pushes him and his foe further than the nair jab, and that both can have their final hit canceled for a sorta of an infinite so you can use fair1, fair2, then rinse repeat until you drag them near the blast zone for an easy kill with fair3 (can do this with nair but that requires a bit more precision with movement)
That last hitbox in that uptilt before the launcher is for heavies hit on the side of the move if they're only hit by that second to last first and if pushback values mess with that hit. If that last set of boxes before the launch didn't connect with anything else before to accumulate enough launching power to scoop them into the launcher swing, that second to last hitbox must be to ensure they are high enough to still get the launcher hitbox. That also might be why the launcher hitbox style is a swing to make sure that all three angles above are covered instead of a large one in the center that might miss the sides more.
I mean, I think the intagability is meant to make it so the long start up doesn't directly contradict with the hurtbox shifting the move was designed to do
For anyone who played KH1, Sora's Counter is weird... since guarding a projectile almost always sent it back at the user or destroyed it. Also I'm surprised more of his attacks didn't count as reflectors... as attacking projectiles would send them back in KH.
I've heard that falling bair to down smash is a really good option on shield bc the invincibility ignores most shield grabs and if they continue shielding, down smash can break it very easily
You should do Robin next or put them in the next vote. I know TH-cam comments don’t normally decide videos, but going from DLC hit boxes to Levin hit boxes won’t be much of a change
I still don't understand why that when you talk about a certain hitbox for something like jab, you cutaway to a match that has nothing to do with that actual hitbox
I will never understand why when you cut away to gameplay you don't actually show the move you're talking about being used in a match. It's like... Why cut away at all? You've shown us generic gameplay for 2 seconds then went back to hit boxes, what's the point?
Sora's up smash has a weird quirk youll only see if your opponent is running a super armor spirit. Apparently the scooper has fixed knockback that is just disgusting.
Sheesh, I haven't played smash for a while now but Sora's hitboxes look kinda terrifying to be on the receiving end of. With that in mind, does anyone know which characters in the roster would be best at directly countering Sora, or at least have some kind of advantage over him? Again it's been hecking ages since I played so I don't really know much about how any characters have changed since Joker's patch.
As Sora, I struggle with Wolf. His speed and combo game easily overwhelm Sora and blaster is obnoxious to deal with since Sora is so slow and floaty in the air.
Byleth is the biggest one. Just go under him and Up B him to death. MKLeo mentions this in a recent video. Anyone who can go offstage to counter him. Other than that, you generally need someone with a ranged neutral so that you can zone him cause he catches a lot of jumps. Just keep your feet planted and learn the timing for when to hit him for down air or side B (run away from that)
So well designed. Except nair and fair being so similar... F tilt and jab too I guess. And I would have added a bit more uniqueness like grabbing with the keyblade and 4:00 Because it's spinning. 9:40 They really should have made it cover the whole blade, I hate when they do this.
I’d actually like to see a hit box analysis for Samus. She has interesting projectiles, snappy aerials, large and long smash attacks, and a Zair which is too good for its own well being What do you think
![สาวเมืองเพชร - ธีเดช ทองอภิชาติ [Official MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kEt7F9PvO3I/mqdefault.jpg)
I kinda like how the "trailing" hitbox on a lot of his swings makes his moves look like a key.
I like how it follows in his slash trail too
fun fact: his invincibility on down smash works just like in kh2 and can even dodge grounded moves from a lot of enemies
It’s fun at ledge.
Accuracy is the best reason for BS, I like it.
Wait do all finishers in KH2 have invul? I know guard break and zantetsuken have it but everything else I don't know
@@lavadragon6444 actually yes even explosion has on startup
@@Howardpower679 it doesn't actually have I frames on start-up from what I've noticed, you mainly get the I frames while the explosion orbs are out
Missed opportunity to call the video Sora’s Simple and Clean hitboxes
But the hitboxes aren't really simple or clean are they?
@@YoyIeCake it doesn’t help that the song isn’t even in smash :(
@@YoyIeCake Neither is Kingdom Hearts, so...that's the joke, I guess?
@@SeVeRSamus well... Sort of? Pit's special taunt on his stage has it sung acapella.
@@JulieLamia it’s not a real version, it was a fan made one
10:40 one thing to note about Sora’s counter is that it has priority over every other move in the game. Even Wonderwing
That is good to know.
Three things:
1. The Priority you're talking about is just the additional stagger property that this counter has, it has a 1.4x dmg multiplier, and also has full intangibility until the end of the counter's hitbox which also grows in size as the hitbox is out
2. The counter hits below ledge and can screw up some characters' recoveries (Such as King K Rool's Up B)
3. It also has some unique properties for some characters, like B&K's Wonderwing (Staggers & counters) and Charizard's Side B (The game treats it like a projectile and has barely any start-up because Sora's counter has effectively 2 different start ups depending on if its a projectile or a direct hit, and keeps Charizard along his current course while dealing kb at the same time)
Sora’s Nair is a hitbox lottery. It as a tumble hitbox, weak launcher hitbox, a bunch of stunner hitboxes that send in weird directions.
Thats where they added all his "Luck" skills
Good old Lucky Strike
"Sora doesn't have any dlc mechanics." His mechanic is loops for days
*lööps*
What about noops? (For those that don't know nair > fast fall nair2 combos back into nair)
@@Lightmagician60 I mean compared to something like minmin cheese or one wing it isn't a game changer persay, maybe because I know the matchup idk
He can loop for 358/2 days
@@raheemaslam7363 or until the game is re:coded
By the time you've covered every Ultimate Character's hitboxes, the next Nintendo Console will be released lol
Just like last time!
But no pressure
@@aidenzorn8322 bro you just reminded me when my teacher said "this test will be your grade for the entire 9 weeks but no pressure
perfect business model
ᵀᴹNintendo Sphere
"It can't be a coincidence that they called it *Sonic* Blade"
Shockingly though it is. Sora actually learns the Sonic Blade move from Cloud (funny right? lol) in the KH games xD. Although it would make for a funny meme if Sonic said he taught Sora the Homming Attack xD
Huh, Sakurai wasn't kidding when he said they intentionally made Sora's moves really active
This is his vision, do you think he would be kidding?
5:34 YO, Rekz just got mind-gamed by a Ganon CPU
xDDDDDDDDDDD
"Sora doesn't have any dlc mechanics." His mechanic is him being in the game in the first place
JOKE ALERT SINCE PEOPLE ON THE INTERNET TAKE STUFF TOO SERIOUSLY
And Nate Lecard said "Loops for Days". Both of you are brilliant and make sense. And to be honest, his mechanic is probably how unique of a character he feels like.
Neutral special? Jump?
@@PotofGlue that’s every character
@@moosesues8887 his neutral special and double jump are unique dumbass
@@PotofGlue double jump… ehhh, looks like Ness and Lucas’s. Haven’t played him yet personally because I haven’t had time. But that definitely looks like that jump was stolen.
His hitboxes were the weirdest ones I’ve ever seen, some of the hitboxes do not look ok without the particle effects.
Yeah part of the whole thing with the keyblade is how it emits energy and stuff, most of its range and power comes from that rather than the physical keyblade itself.
Thanks for all the hard work through all these dlc fighters. Glad to have Sora in smash. Waited so long.
Now I know it wasn't only hurtbox shifting making my moves whiff against Sora's Dsmash haha
Thanks for the shout-out, by the way! Happy to help with my modded switch any time
Love it when I jump as Sora and all of a sudden I can't touch the ground
You can either Dair or just go off ledge and recover low
@@velvetbutterfly I'm talking about his floatiness.
@@InsomniaDaydreamer he still has tools to get back to stage
@@velvetbutterfly i think the art of comedy is lost on you. Also the point is that he's very floaty, not that he doesn't have tools to get back to stage
@@illford you made no attempt to make a joke, all you did was complain you personally can't get back to the ground. If you were trying to be comical there were better ways of making the same joke
The point of the trailing hitboxes on moves like jab1 and up air (the actual trailing one, not the fat blob at the start) is to give the move the feeling of being more active without making it last for a year. Remember that hitbox interpolation exists, so the actual active area on each frame is pretty massive and trails just behind the blade to match the particle effect.
the small trailing hitboxes almost give the hitbox structure the shape of a key themselves
The Down Smash intangibility doesn't seem too egregious when you see at K. Rool or Incineroar leaping much higher than Sora seems to do. If you compare the visuals, he does just a tiny hop, but if you compare the hitboxes, the full body (and then leg) intangibility probably compensates for not jumping as high.
Additionally, the intangibility on his down smash wears off before even the hitbox comes out, so that is another thing to note.
To be fair, K. Rool and Incineroar are way bigger than Sora. Not to mention that Sora doesn't attack with his own body like the others do, which means that he can't be attacked with a down tilt or down smash, while the heavis can be hit. And the last thing is that Sora's down smash has like no end lag...at all. Definitely a better down smash than those two.
It doesn't seem bad until you realize he will have the worst case of spot dodge to DSmash. And Sure K Rool and Incin jump higher but it can still be hit. That invul can be used to avoid even some forward attacks like Marth ftilt which covers a pretty wide area. There are still some advantages for incin and K rool but compared to Sora, it's not much better. K Rool is at least compensated with belly armor
Back air can trip for some reason. It only will trip at 0 but it exists
I’m surprised no one’s made any ‘Lingering Hitbox’ jokes yet…
Look at Sora's face during F-Smash. He knows. *He knows what sins he is committing.*
"sora doesn't have dlc mechanics" oh yeah aerial 3 hit combo and 3 neutral B's don't count I guess. I forgot only meters are mechanics.
I mean, the trail is for the key part of the sword I assume.
4:02 this has to do with the move's interaction with items and stage hazards that you can "send". They are meant to have a different effect than when hitting opponents.
It's good that he doesn't have any cheap DLC mechanics. Now people won't bitch when I beat them with Sora like I did with Hero.
His cheap DLC mechanic is how his various almost acceptable DLC mechanics interact. His supposedly inescapable nair loop can take you from 0% to 90%, his down smash safely hits below the ledge, he can easily ladder you off the top of the screen, his freeze is wonky good, some of his attacks are active for longer than you'd think and get hit boxes filling empty space just because, ... The silliest thing though is that all those DLC goodies might not matter in the long run, just because it still might not measure up to what others are capable of.
Agreed. Sora works up to be a big carry because of this. Shows how little practice you need with him to take stocks. This irks me because there's because there's other characters.....(Ryu) (Meta Knight) ...and more I cant think that require some decent amount of practice, just to net the same results. An imbalanced mess really
4:19 well, technically he's not a SquareEnix swordfighter.
SquareEnix don't own him and the keyblade is more of a bat despite the name.
It’s co-produced by Square Enix and the Keyblade gets boosted by sword damage increasing spirits.
It’s a sword, buddy.
@@skeletorthebest7204 that literally doesn't make it a sword lol.
Obviously they weren't going to have an entire new class of spirits just for blunt weapons when nobody else uses them.
@@Robbie_Haruna Only sora and mickeys keyblades look more like clubs. Even xigbar in a cutscene called the keyblades "Key shaped swords"
@@FurutaChinchilla There's a decent chunk of them that resemble clubs though, most of them in fact.
@@Robbie_Haruna True true, I'll give you that, but still, about what xigbar said and how Sora defeated roxas, it is more about a magical cut even if they aren't sharp (most of them) but still, If it wasn't a sword why refer to it as keyblade if it is used and treated as one ?
thank you for the dlc road its been a good travle, look forward to the rest \o/
It's nice to see this type of video her and there, and I'm very happy that Sora is in Smash now
On other note, it would be interesting to see a video where you show the moves that had more hitboxes in the game, or just very weird ones
Sora also marks the last DLC stage in ultimate, meaning Rekzius can cover the legality of the DLC stages (I hope)
lol the hitbox break down...... this game is so intricate and well done
The down-smash invulnerability isn't exactly excessive.
Samurai did specify the move is good at beating low attacks much like incineroar's and k.rool's down-smashes.
I guess they just really wanted to make sure it functioned as intended. Maybe full body invulnerability is a bit much but it's fine.
9:26 it actually is a coincidence it’s named sonic blade but at the same time it’s not because (just like sonic) you just mash and it goes very fast
I have been knocked out so many times being like " That freaking missed! How does this keep happening!?" Now I see why and I'm still mad.
Sonic blade, named after Sonic? nah it's an actual ability in KH 1 and 2
holy shit that mod!! I want to see that footage for everything. you can finally recognize association to particle effects and asset scaling and weapons.
also I think a few of soras moves have a slight tipper mechanic.
This video is incredible, now ik exactly what moves to depend on when I need to use em.
The 10:42 the counter is good for boomerang like projectiles. Like crowns boomerangs and crosses for example
Really the finally DLC Hitbox Analysis!
Can't wait to see the video of the banned DLC stages.
The last frame of Uptilt at exactly 3:50 gives me The Exorcist vibes
8:47 ah yes my favorite characrer with 2 up airs
If I was a Smash Ultimate dev I would watch your vids to figure out where to add buffs/nerfs.
Sora's F-Smash has a Lingering D-box.
5:35 what level is that Ganon cuz that shit felt personal💀
8:49 got me confused for a second there when he called that up-air
7:10
probably forgot to mention how Sora's fair pushes him and his foe further than the nair jab, and that both can have their final hit canceled for a sorta of an infinite
so you can use fair1, fair2, then rinse repeat until you drag them near the blast zone for an easy kill with fair3
(can do this with nair but that requires a bit more precision with movement)
Still waiting for Mii Brawler’s Mind-Boggling Hitboxes.
I love how the trailing hitbox make it look kinda like a X-blade
It's spelled with a Greek letter but idk
VERY informative, thank you!
That last hitbox in that uptilt before the launcher is for heavies hit on the side of the move if they're only hit by that second to last first and if pushback values mess with that hit. If that last set of boxes before the launch didn't connect with anything else before to accumulate enough launching power to scoop them into the launcher swing, that second to last hitbox must be to ensure they are high enough to still get the launcher hitbox. That also might be why the launcher hitbox style is a swing to make sure that all three angles above are covered instead of a large one in the center that might miss the sides more.
Can't wait for Ike's hitbox analysis
Could have said Summarizing Sora's Soaring Hitboxes.
The up B has multiple blank frames between the front and back parts, is that why those vids of them going through each other happened?
Yes.
I mean, I think the intagability is meant to make it so the long start up doesn't directly contradict with the hurtbox shifting the move was designed to do
I don't get what you're saying. What if he didn't have the invulnerability?
True subs drop everything to watch 👍
8:49 you mean up b
One special property of Sora's counter is that it can still punish moves that grant invincibility like banjo wonder wing, rest, pika thunder, etc.
I guess his mechanic is those unholy Hitboxes and a possibly incredible combo game
For anyone who played KH1, Sora's Counter is weird... since guarding a projectile almost always sent it back at the user or destroyed it. Also I'm surprised more of his attacks didn't count as reflectors... as attacking projectiles would send them back in KH.
His hitboxes just last for fucking ever.
Please cover Lucina's hitboxes! I need to know why it BARELY spikes!
I've heard that falling bair to down smash is a really good option on shield bc the invincibility ignores most shield grabs and if they continue shielding, down smash can break it very easily
You should do Robin next or put them in the next vote. I know TH-cam comments don’t normally decide videos, but going from DLC hit boxes to Levin hit boxes won’t be much of a change
I still don't understand why that when you talk about a certain hitbox for something like jab, you cutaway to a match that has nothing to do with that actual hitbox
Bayo and Meta Knight have always had a combo ftilt, I don't know why people act like Sora is so unique in that regard
I will never understand why when you cut away to gameplay you don't actually show the move you're talking about being used in a match. It's like... Why cut away at all? You've shown us generic gameplay for 2 seconds then went back to hit boxes, what's the point?
Sora's up smash has a weird quirk youll only see if your opponent is running a super armor spirit. Apparently the scooper has fixed knockback that is just disgusting.
Yep! Smash 4 Cloud's up air is back!
10:58 Pretty sure that’s a wind box
What's weird is that Sora's down air, despite having a landing hitbox, ends up not using it if the move had just been shielded.
Who is that tiny person that's on the blizzaga icon at 11:14? looks like a little marth to me.
Huh, you know, I never saw the connection between Sora's Sonic Blade and Sonic's homing attack, but fair enough
Sheesh, I haven't played smash for a while now but Sora's hitboxes look kinda terrifying to be on the receiving end of.
With that in mind, does anyone know which characters in the roster would be best at directly countering Sora, or at least have some kind of advantage over him? Again it's been hecking ages since I played so I don't really know much about how any characters have changed since Joker's patch.
Palutena bodies him
@@immaculatus5526 Doesn't Paluteno body everybody with her huge ass hitboxes?
As Sora, I struggle with Wolf. His speed and combo game easily overwhelm Sora and blaster is obnoxious to deal with since Sora is so slow and floaty in the air.
Byleth is the biggest one. Just go under him and Up B him to death. MKLeo mentions this in a recent video. Anyone who can go offstage to counter him. Other than that, you generally need someone with a ranged neutral so that you can zone him cause he catches a lot of jumps. Just keep your feet planted and learn the timing for when to hit him for down air or side B (run away from that)
_not_ little mac
Out of curiosity, why don't these videos include hitboxes for final smashes, or certain throws like Fox's up throw?
Everyone have waiting for this
Watch try to explain the name of Sora's moves and explain his moves and you never played KH.. is nerve wrecking.
The trailing hitboxes seem to be for the 'hitbox smearing' effect. I think its a good mechanic and might be nice to have on everyone, tbh.
Yes! Finally
So well designed. Except nair and fair being so similar... F tilt and jab too I guess. And I would have added a bit more uniqueness like grabbing with the keyblade and
4:00 Because it's spinning.
9:40 They really should have made it cover the whole blade, I hate when they do this.
I’d actually like to see a hit box analysis for Samus.
She has interesting projectiles, snappy aerials, large and long smash attacks, and a Zair which is too good for its own well being
What do you think
Rekzius, my man.
I'd love to see a final smash hitbox video or maybe another boss one like April Fool's giga bowser
How do you view their hit boxes in the first place.
id love to see you cover ness's hitboxes someday
Are you going to do one of these for Little Mac at some point?
Have you thought about doing videos on melee hitboxes
Satan himself made these fucking hitboxes
unrelated but, could you add frame data in like the corner or smth of every move? it may be a bit much so i’d understand if it’s too much hassle
So, I looked through the videos, didn’t see one on it, may have missed it, could you do one on Olimar, I am very curious how those hit boxes work
I though they were joking when they said his shoes have no hurtbox...omg
Am I crazy forgetful? Because I swear that I heard sakurai say that you can hit sora's counter from behind and it wont trigger.
As long as the attack doesn’t completely go through Sora, the counter won’t trigger and he’ll get hit
Hey quick question when you do a Luigi move-set video could you explain how his wind box works?
Remember how you did giga bowser? What about doing the other bosses hitboxes?
better finish covering every character in ultimate before the next smash game releases
8:49 *Up+B
His hitboxes remind me a lot of Robin's
One could say Sora’s counter counters too many things.
Does Sora have particle effect hitboxes like Kazuya? 'cuase sora has special star particles, so I was just wondering!
Counter those boomerang spamming Links! Give em a taste of they own medicine!!!
When will we get a Bayonette video for Ultimate?