I’m currently Protestant, I’ve recently begun to learn about Orthodox Church, my heart is being stirred for orthodox, and I recently purchased an orthodox study Bible.
@@tsarconstruction9118 That’s awesome to hear, I’m still studying and listening to sermons by orthodox. Also, been going through the book of Sirach, which has been such a huge blessing. I can’t understand why the Protestants took that one out, I’m sure the same can be said about the others books as well I just haven’t gotten around to reading them . God bless you,
I have been Presbyterian most of my life and visited many other churches. I have such peace and joy now that I am a catechumen in the Antiochian Orthodox Church.
I‘m currently protestant and there are still many teachings in the Orthodox Church that I find hard to accept. But man, I love the Orthodox Church! I feel drawn to it. It’s a beautiful Church and they have backbone in todays day and age which many protestant Churches don’t have. I like learning more about the Orthodox Church ☦️✝️
I agree, the icons, worship to Mary and saints for example, the Bible is very clear about all that, just our Lord Jesus Christ is worth all worship and praise! That's the Bible teaches us!
@@diosmioysenormio9710 look with all due respect you’re misguided and don’t know what the teachings are. No one worships Mary and the saints. The icons of the saints don’t mean much considering they’re not graven images because Jesus is not the God of the dead but God of the living. However what is a sin is to misrepresent, please stop misrepresenting the Orthodox Church and go to one and ask questions to a priest.
I’m coming out of Protestantism and seriously committing to the Eastern Orthodox Church. Fr. Josiah Trenham is a great man of God and I have learned so much about Orthodoxy from him. The Orthodox Church is truly divine and beautiful. I got an Orthodox Study Bible too! ☦️📿
@@AccordingtoJohn See if you can get him to share his journey to Orthodoxy in detail.. he shared some details here and there but that would be really helpful to people.
The Lord Jesus is doing an amazing work among Protestants, I am a testament to that. I was an Evangelical Protestant for 20 years and now beginning my journey to becoming Orthodox.
@@andys3035 Beautiful! Pray lots, meet the Saints. There is a children’s podcast called Tending The Garden of Our Hearts. It was awesome for a convert like me. Keeping going, you’re almost home.
@@IndyColts1987 I encourage you to keep going and pray. My conversion to Orthodoxy has cost me relationships. I have one family member not even talking to me and others calling me a heretic, others mocking my icon corner in my house. Funny enough, this is coming from a oneness Pentecostal and another a Calvinist. Praying for you my friend. Be strong.
Eucharist Angel that is incorrect. Holy Orthodoxy teaches that both faith and works are connected and both are necessary for salvation, although no amount of works will save us.
Eucharist Angel You are preaching salvation by faith alone. This is not true. James 2:24 “You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.” It was always the belief of the Church that faith without works is dead.
@Eucharist Angel So if I believe that Jesus Christ died on the cross and ressurected from the dead but I go and kill someone or don't give a damn for my neighbours, I'm saved by faith alone? Cherrypicking and twisting Bible verses, especially Ephesians 2:8-9, is all that Protestantism can offer. Read Matthew 25:31-46, only works will matter on Judgment Day. And btw, the Pope is NOT the leader of our church. Praying you'll get out of this confusion you're in.
@Eucharist Angel Faith alone means not questioning, it means blind faith which is demanded to all of as who were not witnesses of what is related in the Bible. It doesn't mean that since you've have accepted Jesus as you're Lord and Savior you're on vacation. We will be judged by our works on Judgment Day. Protestantism is all about apopstasy, and who's the king of apostasy? Just saying...
Most Orthodox priests will even admit only god knows your heart and is the judge. My Grandma devoted her whole life to Jesus in a Protestant Church. If not for her foundation I never would have found Orthodoxy since my parents didn't believe in god. You should be thankful for the people in your life that blessed you with their presence.
Protestants should go where there is the fullness of the faith; where Christ's words of life are taught and lived out; where the love of Christ is emphasized; and where there is a plan for spiritual growth. For me, this path is leading to Orthodoxy. I was (or considered myself) to be a devout Protestant from a conservative Baptist family. I read the Bible, prayed, taught Sunday School, and honestly tried to live the Christian life, but something was always missing. Protestantism's a-historical nature and lack of historical continuity nagged me, as did what I learned about the development of the Bible. In Orthodoxy I did NOT find the ancient church I expected to find in some ways, but I believe that I have found the TRUTH about the ancient church, backed up by historical records and archaeology. My faith and what I know about church history and development are no longer at odds. Neither are there still nagging questions about how Jesus and some of the Apostles seemed to teach the necessity for obeying Jesus' commands and perseverance in the Faith, while as Protestants we're taught that (intellectual) faith alone is needed for salvation. (The "Jesus vs. Paul" issue troubles many sincere Protestants.) The process of me coming to these conclusions, though, wasn't quick and certainly wasn't easy. It was during a time when I was studying the New Testament for certain projects that I finally had to admit that the New Testament did NOT teach salvation by (intellectual) faith alone, and certainly did not teach "once-saved-always-saved." Sola fide was NOT "the gospel," as I had been taught, but an interpretation (from the 16th century) based on selected scriptures, while excluding other scriptures. Orthodoxy's theology of salvation, however, which is about the necessity of having a living, growing, REAL relationship with Jesus, is what many Protestants are searching for in their hearts, I think. In fact, the deep personal knowledge, emphasis on humility rather than boastful hypocrisy, and need for spiritual growth is what the Holy Spirit tries to teach all of us. There are many other issues, such as Mary, the use of icons, and praying repetitive prayers, that a Protestant has to work through, of course. There are resources on these issues available online from this site and others, and in book form, however. For Protestants there has to be what I can only describe as a massive paradigm shift from what for them is often an individualistic, a-historical, head/logic focused, sometime anti-authoritarian denomination to the more Church-as-living-ancient-liturgical-community and noetic reality of Orthodoxy. I know that, in my case, it would have been difficult to find a Christian church any more different than Orthodoxy was from my family's Protestant faith. From the length of this answer, though, I think you can sense the depth of what I've discovered in Orthodoxy. Even in my short time as a catechumen, I've seen spiritual growth, and so much about the early church and even the Bible now makes more sense both historically and theologically. God bless you.
I'd be interested in hearing from my former Protestant friends who have gone Orthodox or Catholic. I'm finding so much richness in preReformation Tradition that I have ignored in my Protestant upbringing. As z first strp I've dropped Sola Scripture and can see Christ more clearly. If you want to discuss your jouney with me I'd love to hear it. This video helps explain where I am.
My experience is similar. I’ve been a member of an Orthodox parish for 14 years-having come out of a congregation with Conservative Baptist roots. The journey has been more arduous than I could ever have conceived, but the difficulties are no longer rooted in an incoherent view of the Church or the Scriptures, and that makes all the difference. I have no regrets. I’m home to stay.
Most Orthodox priests will even admit only god knows your heart and is the judge. My Grandma devoted her whole life to Jesus in a Protestant Church. If not for her foundation I never would have found Orthodoxy since my parents didn't believe in god. You should be thankful for the people in your life that blessed you with their presence.
That's not what sola fide is. With the ignorance of historic Protestant doctrine among so many Orthodox/Catholic converts, I'm not surprised they converted. Catechesis is an issue for so many Protestant churches.
Not sure what denomination you are speaking of, but I do not know any church that contends you are saved by intellectual faith alone. Even Satan has intellectual faith. I think perhaps you just didn’t understand what is meant by “faith.”
I love Father Trenham's clarity of teaching! God has endowed him with a gift for explaining Christian theology in a manner that is easy to understand. Thank you Father Trenham, and thank you God!
Excellent! Thank you, Father. I am a convert to the Faith and my husband and many friends are Calvinists. They deny that Jesus established the Priesthood, as well as other things you mentioned. I pray that the Lord will end all heresies. Lord have mercy on us. ☦️🙏🏻
Previous Reformed Presbyterian who became a Reformed Baptist. I used to and still do discussions and debates with muslims. During one debate St. John of Damascus came up and I decided to do research on him, then I decided to to more research on the Church fathers and the early Chruch. I discovered the authentic Church Christ established. Now I am Orthodox. Glory be to God.
Very thought-provoking and should be of some assistance for when I inevitably get into arguments with my Protestant counterparts. I have a roommate currently who is especially hard headed. When I was first invited to attend Orthodox service, I was absolutely blown away, as it felt like true worship to me. This is greatly contrasted with my own Protestant upbringing which regrettably relies on the sort of sermon style of message delivery, a few poorly delivered contemporary Christian songs which always feel stilted and off, and feels more like a pep talk for the week rather than actually worshiping God in any meaningful way. So, I came back from service and had a discussion with him and all he could do was just try to poke holes in worship of the Theotokos, and veneration of the Icons. You know as well as I that there is no issue, and is in fact encouraged. He says something to the effect of, "why bother with that when you can just pray to Jesus" and "that's idolatry" and all this other nonsense. Protestants are dilettantes, and the have the nerve to throw humbleness back in my face. It's frustrating when they abuse my good will knowing that I'm not going to stoop to the same level. The history, the ecclesiology, veneration of the icons, the censors burning, the asceticism, and the dogma are what makes for a truly worthwhile experience, and as much as I would like for him to see that, I think he confuses his disdain for me, and projects it onto the Orthodox church. Most people are content lay around in the muck and mire, complain, but then do nothing about it. Can't save people who are unwilling to participate in their own rescue. Fr. Trenham brings up excellent points which I believe will do me well to keep them close to my heart. Pre-16th century, XYZ flavor of Protestantism didn't exist, and yet the claim is that sola fide, and sola scriptura is all that is necessary. Sorry Protestants, that is ecumenism, and it is heresy. Yes, it is possible for you to be saved and not be Orthodox, it is not the place of the church to make a weighing of your chrismation/baptism, however, there is only one framework which can ever be consistent. And you know what else? It doesn't suffer from the pervading worldliness that infects and denigrates everything that it touches. Thank you for the content, helped me to find words for something that I felt was ineffable.
I am protestant (almost two years born again) i am interested in the orthodox faith. there is something that draws me to it. I have been praying and i was actually born into a orthodox family. never learned the faith but two years ago i became a christian. I was very anti catholic and anti orthodox but now after watching some stuff and reading. It does make more sense. Why would Christ allow the church to go "astray" acording to protestants. it just doesnt make any sense. Is there anyone who can recommend me books, sites, resources to study about the orthodox faith? God bless.
Hi! Thank you for sharing that. One thing besides reading you could do is to visit an Orthodox church and talk to the priest. At ancient faith, you have books and podcasts you could look at store.ancientfaith.com/intro-to-orthodoxy/ A good patristic series is this: svspress.com/categories/Popular-Patristics-Series/ There are books there on the icons, on the incarnation, etc written by the church fathers. I also recommend this book: www.amazon.com/Saint-Silouan-Athonite-Archimandrite-Sophrony/dp/0881411957 This is more or less a classic today. It will give you a good introduction to the spirit of the Orthodox mindset as well as Orthodox theology. Reading the teachings and lives of the saints is a good way to go.
@@AccordingtoJohn Awesome my brother, thankyou. I do however have one final quesion. It seems that i cant really find a NKJV or NASB version of an orthodox bible? i know there is a orthodx study bible nkjv but the old testament is in kjv. also i just want a bible with text nkjv or nasb or nlt even but there are none? Thanks for replying i appreciate that.
@@buffsoldierofchrist5907 No problem brother! The Old Testament in the Orthodox Study Bible is in part the Septuagint en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orthodox_Study_Bible It contains also articles. I don't think the Study Bible exists without the notes. On the internet, you can find the Septuagint Old Testament: www.ellopos.net/elpenor/greek-texts/septuagint/default.asp You can also buy the Septuagint version but it is not translated by Orthodox to the best of my knowledge. www.amazon.com/Septuagint-Apocrypha-Greek-English/dp/0913573442 or www.bookdepository.com/A-New-English-Translation-of-the-Septuagint-Albert-Pietersma/9780195289756?redirected=true&Google&Base1&GR&A-New-English-Translation-of-the-Septuagint&selectCurrency=EUR&w=AFFMAU99VKZYJ1A8VCYB&pdg=pla-293946777986:cmp-10333853204:adg-102381595625:crv-443211599716:pos-:dev-c&gclid=Cj0KCQiAhZT9BRDmARIsAN2E-J2jvGicLhtgx842tMNNiRlJYCgozJcLDNLwSRmkYUgaV2UixfkODFUaAmPLEALw_wcB
@@AccordingtoJohn i understand what you are saying bro. what i mean is why isnt there a bible with nkjv translation that has all the orthodox canon? so isnt there just a "normal" orthodox translation of the bible?
@@buffsoldierofchrist5907 Same story in my case: i was also born into a orthodox family. never learned the orthodox faith and then became a christian and anti orthodox, but after rediscovering the discernment of orthodox spirituality I became again interested in orthodoxy and since then finally living the orthodox faith...
Learning much here. I have not attended church in many years. Have had a mixture of church attendance. Although I’ve never agreed with everything in any church I have attended. However, learned much on my own. Although my faith in God and Jesus Christ as my savior has always been core. I feel I am being pulled spiritually to learn more. I am a person who studies and I have read so much on different Christian beliefs.
Wish you the best of luck. I was Baptist before becoming a Catechumen in the Orthodox Church. The worship in the Orthodox faith is actually holy. Glory be to God.
damn! The video stream chopped up right when father Trenham was making a profound point about the Mormon faith there at the end of the interview. I would love to know what he actually said there. I get the gist, obviously, but I would like to know exactly what his words were.
My family (husband and older teens) is bothered by kissing icons and prostrations towards the cross. I love Orthodoxy, but the physical part of it is so difficult for people used to just sitting and standing.
Introduce them to church history. Do they really think Christians have historically worshipped like the modern protestants do - just sitting and standing? Or was their prayer life much more dynamic? What about sacred objects which the Biblical story is absolutely packed with? The Ark of the Covenant, the Holy of Holies, Elijah's robe, Elisha's bones, pieces of Jesus's garment from Acts, and even Paul's cloak? What about all the liturgical elements of Old Testament worship - were all those simply abolished with Jesus? Did Jesus introduce just a modern, flat form of worship? Or was the prayer and liturgical life of the early Church a continuation of transfigured practices of the Old Testament? God bless!
They are right to be put off by those practices. The early church fathers were essentially unanimous in their staunch opposition to the use of images in worship (as well as, of course, the commandments in Scripture). Actually reading the early church fathers (rather than being told "the early church fathers believed and practiced Eastern Orthodoxy" by EO apologists) is a major part of what led me out of Eastern Orthodoxy. The modern-day Eastern Orthodox dogmatic accretions would be absolutely foreign (and in several cases, utterly abhorrent) to the early church. Eastern Orthodox apologists will claim that the early church were all Eastern Orthodox in belief and practice, but it is simply not true, and this is borne out especially in the church father writings of the roughly the first 300 years of church history. Hearing a couple out-of-context, cherry-picked church fathers quotes led me into Eastern Orthodoxy, but actually reading their writings, in full and in context, led me out of Eastern Orthodoxy and back to the actual Gospel.
@@moiseybeliy5458 If you have time, can you direct me to those passages or Fathers where I can read the entire thing? The similarity to temple worship and Jewish practice makes me think it's directly coming from Judaism, not just pagan introductions. Besides, Peter was told to eat all the unclean things, and they started worshipping on Sunday instead of Saturday, so things that seem pagan are actually now redeemed. That's what makes me think icons are the new testament answer to "no graven images", just as keeping the Sabbath is now just being in Christ since He's Lord of the Sabbath. Jesus is the image of the invisible God, thus we can make and venerate His image. I kiss an icon like I'd kiss my mother's cheek. Doing this had actually made me question whether I've ever really worshipped God. It's really more than an emotional experience. He deserves so much and we're so incapable.
I’m a Protestant Evangelical for 23 yrs. I came to Christ at age 25. I’m considering becoming Eastern Orthodox. However, I need help answering one hang up. It has to do with prayer, the dead, the icons and Mary. I’ve read and watch E.Orthodox say we pray to God, yet commune with departed saints and pray with them and not to them. I’ve also read the prayers in the liturgy to the Virgin Mary. Yet, we can only pray to God for departed dead. So, what is it? Everyone dead is departed, so we can only pray to God on their behalf. Yet, through icons we can pray to the most holy Mary. This doesn’t sit with me because I don’t think Scripture hints at such an prayer activity, but I’d like to be corrected, and I don’t know of any early church fathers hinted at the idea. Can you help?
I can help you with your questions. Im Eastern Orthodox. I'm not a theologian but any question Im unable to answer, I take it to my parish father. I have a discord where we can talk if you have a microphone. If you are interested please say so, and I will post my discord info so that you can add me.
They're not dead. God is a God of the living, not the dead. 30 For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven. 31 But regarding the resurrection of the dead, have you not read what was spoken to you by God: 32 ‘I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? He is not the God of the dead but of the living.” 33 When the crowds heard this, they were astonished at His teaching. - Matthew 22:30-33
What to do? It's horrible that in USA many priests have discontinued Sunday (and all gathering) services and other priests who continue services, in addition to enforcing mask-wearing, administer the Eucharist with separate spoons for all. Plus, the Orthodox churches here in USA are registered 501(c)(3) non-profit religious organization entities, that is: have given headship of churches over to the State. Word-wide, all except few bishops and archbishops of all the Eastern Orthodox Churches are participating members of the WCC, the World Council of Churches, that is: the ecumenical one world religion movement. Please pray for me: i wanted to become an Orthodox Christian but now it's virtually impossible for this one as i am island bound/locked. And may God bless you for doing so. Thank you.
@@johnjcb4690 thanks for the kind word. please pray for me as i am unbaptized into the Orthodox Church and so 1) can''t get Eucharist. 2) am stuck on an island and the only parish chapel on my side of the island, other than introducing himself as Father ___, the priest has never spent a minute to talk to me face-to-face the 3 or 4 times i went and I stayed every time being one of the last to leave 3) and he is serving the Eucharist with separate spoons so i don't respect him. And the other side chapel (and only other priest) is 1 3/4 hours away and closed. ... "the Patheric'?
Quick question, do y'all have a video planned about why Roman Catholics should become Orthodox? While I am already in the long path of doing so, I'd like to get some pointers in order to translate into Spanish and help more people find the Faith. Down here in South America we live fully in Vatican 2 "Catholicism ", and each day more people either go to the SSPX (which is downright coping as they still try to be subject to Rome but do several loopholes to accommodate to what the Protestantization of the Church, I've been there) or become Evangelicals or just outright become irreligious/atheists/"cultural Christians". Thus, Orthodoxy is direly needed. Thanks in advance!
Yes, brother, I will do interviews for example on the papacy and how it came about so that more people are informed about it. I have never been to South America but I have heard that in some places there is a growth of the Orthodox Church but there is a lot more to do.
3 years later I don't know whether you 'll see this comment but I have read a very interesting book which might be helpful to you: "My exodus from Roman Catholicism" by Bishop Paul de Ballester.
Actually reading the early church fathers (rather than being told "the early church fathers believed and practiced Eastern Orthodoxy" by EO apologists) is what led me out of Eastern Orthodoxy. The modern-day Eastern Orthodox dogmatic accretions would be absolutely foreign (and in several cases, utterly abhorrent) to the early church. Hearing a couple out-of-context, cherry-picked church fathers quotes led me into Eastern Orthodoxy, but actually reading their writings, in full and in context, led me out of Eastern Orthodoxy and back to the actual Gospel.
just because an organisation didn't exist didn't mean the church of believers were not around meeting in homes and reading the separate books of the Bible before the catholics compiled them
Most people back then (nearly 98%) wete illiterate. Because of that icons depicting passages of separate books of a "pre bible" were used. Search for Dura Europa church. Also, look for the Didakhe and other sources about practices carried on by christians in the I to III centuries, none of them just gathered to read the bible at home, they did have liturgies, altars, eucharist, etc. Christians underground claves in Capadoccia still hace elements of this primitive christians.
As a Protestant who respects the EO church and is busy investigating it I've found that Orthodox Christians very much dislike having their position mischaracterized (rightly so) But i do find, in this interview included, that EO Christian's also mischaracterize Protestants which is unfortunate
I feel a kinship to orthodoxy its strange i never knew anything about it. Are all preists as kind as this one are there bad ones? Every preist i have heard is like this with genuine concern for the parishners so many pastors in the protestant faith either dont know as much as i do or are in a hurry to get home and watch football nowadays i dont care to go through the motions of going to a protestant church. That and rapture theology with no basis in scripture really turns me off to it.
Every Orthodox clergyman I have methas had deep humility and pastoral care of the parishioners. I'm sure there are some who are not as suited for the job, you'll find that anywhere. But this is the only church I've been a part of with the level of humility I've experienced that can still answer all of my questions.
Hello! Im sorry to bother but I was wondering what was the name of the chants in the end, I really would like to listen to them regularly and learn more about them (protestant inquiring into Orthodoxy)
You are not bothering me at all! Thank you for your question. His name is Παντελέημων Καρτσώνας and lived on Mount Athos. There are some recordings on youtube like this one: th-cam.com/video/Pn43L_oNIZU/w-d-xo.html
Some say that the altar and church building began with Constantine? There's a book called "Pagan Christianity" by Frank Viola that I think makes this claim. I read some of that book about 10 years ago.
@Christa Aronis I have personally been looking into orthodox Christianity myself also. I have a book that was written by the orthodox for protestants called "west of Jesus" by Anthony.
@Christa Aronis I meant the altar and church building etc being implemented in Christianity. Because such a thing isn't written about in the scriptures. I am unsure if any of the church fathers wrote about that.
@Christa Aronis if I referenced the church fathers that's not Sola scriptura. Tradition is good. But not everything your church practices today was dogma in the early church. Things changed due to circumstances and time.
I'm Roman Catholic however Father Josiah I'm a fan of yours. The Protestants could have troubles with Orthodoxy as much as they do with Roman Catholicism. In my view they should choose one of them. If they wanted to experience the fullness of the truth.
approx 2:29 -- Nope, Jesus didn't establish another PHYSICAL religious system -- *according to Peter, Jesus established an eternal SPIRITUAL house, comprised of "peters/rocks/stones" Believers that are indwelled by the Holy SPIRIT* (1Peter 2:5-7, 1Corinth 12:12-14). *And it is the Holy Spirit that indwells each true Believer that teaches the Believer the Truth of Scripture, not some man/church leadership* -- see 1John 2:27, Matthew 23:9, John 14:16-17, etc. *Church leadership is only to lead by their OWN example of strong Faith and correct Biblical conduct* -- see 1Peter 5:3 -- *"leadership" is NOT to act like "bosses/lords" over the people of GOD, telling us what we must believe and do* -- Matthew 20:25-26. ALL PHYSICAL churches are corrupted by wolves in leadership teaching false doctrines -- and that started as soon as the Apostles were gone -- Acts 20:29-30, 2Peter 2:1-3, 1Timothy 4:1-5, etc. And if you know anything about church history, you should know that by the 4th century, the church was totally corrupted by paganism -- the church started incorporating pagan beliefs/rituals/garb, etc -- and Orthodoxy was not exempt from this infiltration.
@@partlysimpson5154 YOU: if we have pride, blindness *ME: You mean like how Mary had pride* (John 2:1-5), *and therefore was blinded to the Truth that Jesus was the Son of GOD* (Luke 2:49-50) *that the Angel gave her in Luke 1:35* (2Corinth 4:4)
Amen, well tell me where I can read true Church history? I dont want to have debates here, its just get me fleshly. I dont want to run after flesh, but if u have great sources let me know:)
How did converts to the 'Orthodox' church get past the kissing of icons, & the deification of Mary? What did you have to do to accept these two things as normal?
I, as a lifetime Protestant have chosen a more traditional form of corporate worship, and now attend a local Orthodox Church. Protestant churches, who have always been good at fitting into cultures and the modern trends of society has now in many cases lost it’s way, stability and identity as a solid light in our communities. Protestants are not in want because there were no ‘protestants’ before the 16th century any more than a Canadian has no proper citizenry because it is a young country and the canon of western civilization existed before its inception.
I want to be a part of a first century Church; they didn't use icons to pray through. Just simple worship and the Eucharist and fellowship and breaking bread together.
St Luke drew the first icons, so they have been part of the church since the apostles. And the church had a structure (bishops, priests, amd deacons...its in the New Resr Tament) and a liturgy from the beginning as well. The first part of the liturgy was called the Synaxis, and was the Jewish synagogue service. The second was the Eucharest. Eventually they combined the 2 parts of the service.
Research about Dura Europos. One may think people in the first centuries were all literatr and all have a full bible under their arms, but that wasnt the case. Icons and imagen were used to depict and teach "biblical" passages, characters and moments.
Some people might cite the whole Theosis thing, and well that might be kind of weird, what I can certainly say no to as a protestant is the idea of salvation by Grace plus works, which both the Roman Catholic and Eastern orthodox churches preach. The Bible teaches that salvation is by Grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone on the authority of scripture alone to the glory of God alone (Ephesians chapter 1 through two, 2:1-10; Romans 3:19-28; second Timothy 3:15-17; Isaiah 49-50 John 3:16; Romans 11:6).
I'd also like to know, in areas where there is no 'orthodox' church, like remote centers where the orthodox church is yet to be established, if someone accepts Christ as their Saviour through reading the Bible, is their faith and salvation a fallacy? Are they deceiving themselves if they believe they are truly saved from their sins?
I have been looking into the Orthodox faith, from Protestant in the past, and I learned the view I was taught and believed was wrong. Through biblical archeology, I was seeing early churches with iconography on the walls. I do not have the ego to push through when I see I'm wrong, so I accepted the truth. I do however have issues with calling Priests 'Father' because of Matthew 23:9, kissing pictures because that seems like worship to me, and praying to anyone but GOD. Maybe I'll have these issues explained to me, or I'll find it on my own.
@@Curveball JESUS IS THE WAY, TRUTH AND THE LIFE! I rebuke you satan! You dont think with human reasoning, you get to know Jesus. Church DONT SAVE. Jesus does :) And if u speak against Jesus, it's up to you. I suggest to read Gospels of Jesus, so you see that the word is alive, bible word is alive. And ask Holy Spirit to help you to understand. God bless
I have some recordings that my spiritual father gave me, he is the second voice you can hear, and the recordings are from his monastery on the Holy Mountain. The main voice you hear is Fr Panteleimon Kartsonas! But I have also found them on the internet: th-cam.com/video/LGe1BqRCs-U/w-d-xo.html You can search for his name to find more. In greek: ΠΑΝΤΕΛΕΗΜΩΝ ΚΑΡΤΣΩΝΑΣ
In this video, you hear only two words "Theotoke Parthene ", which is the beginning of the Orthodox version of "Hail Mary..." . Here is the whole hymn: th-cam.com/video/DTtXyAfPVP0/w-d-xo.html
I don't see how John 6 is looked at as referring to the Lord's supper. A plain reading of John 6 shows it is about faith in the Word of God. Not about the supper. I can see how people can confuse it but the wording of John 6 just isn't about the Lord's supper
It is about faith in the Logos, or Word, of God who is Christ. Yet is specifically about the Eucharist or Lord's Supper. At the beginning of the chapter the miracle of the feeding of the 5,000. The people literally ate bread that Christ caused to multiply. At the end of the chapter, Christ is still speaking to the same crowd. In verses 26-27, Christ rebukes this crowd for wanting him to continue supplying their earthly needs and not their spiritual ones. He then tells them not to seek after perishable food, which they literally ate, but "food which endures to everlasting life." The people counter that their ancestors ate manna (v. 31), which they did literally eat as they wandered in wilderness with Moses, and so ask for another sign. Christ then responds that he himself is the true bread of heaven and life (v. 32-33, 35, 48). He even insists that the people eat him and drink his blood to inherit life (v. 49-51), so much so that the the Jews questioned it (v. 52). But instead of clarifying what he meant, as he had done with parables or speaking figuratively, Jesus continued to insist that his body and blood be consumed (v. 53-58). Even the verbs used for eating in these passages suggest that one chew or gnaw (lexiconcordance.com/greek/5315.html). And when some of his own followers declared they had a hard time accepting this, he doesn't correct them in saying, "I was speaking metaphorically or in a parable." Rather he challenges them that if they could not accept this, would they even accept the sign of his ascension? And from ancient times was this understood that when Christ said, "This is my body" or "This is my blood" that he meant it quite literally as seen in the words of St. Justin the Martyr (AD 100-165), St. Ignatius of Antioch (AD c. 110; he even condemned those known as Docetics for denying that the Eucharist as Christ's body and blood by saying Christ himself was not really human), St John Chrysostom (AD 347-407; www.newadvent.org/fathers/240147.htm), and many others. The concept that the Lord's Supper is merely symbolic didn't really catch on until the time of such Reformers as John Calvin and Zwingli.
My current Church has an 'altar' and bishop. But the bishop can be a woman (or transgender) :/ If you haven't guessed, I'm in the UK and at the moment, visit an Anglican Church. My wife and I have recently made contact with a local Orthodox Parish. Question: is there a chance that the Orthodox Church will go the same way (female bishops, priests etc)??? We need some stability!!!!
This is true! The word Church refers originally to the faithful. When we say the Orthodox "Church" we are not speaking of the "Orthodox Building" but the faithful and everything that entails. In Greece, we don't say Church but "temple" to the building. However, in English people do call the building "Church" too so we need to be aware of language differences. But because you like using words in their original meaning, you should also be happy to say "deacon" "priest" "bishop" "church" liturgy" "synergy" "eucharist", calling the apostles "fathers" etc for these words are in the Holy Scriptures too.
Excerpt from “Romans: An Orthodox Commentary” by Fr. Patrick Henry Reardon “The Church Among the spiritual blessings conferred on the Apostle Paul in his experience of conversion, it is arguable that none was more significant than a strong and indelible sense of the union of Christ with his Church. This union was expressed in the first words that Jesus spoke to him, the question, “Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me?” To this question the persecutor answered with another, “Who are you, sir?” To this the Lord responded by repeating the same accusation. “I am Jesus of Nazareth whom you are persecuting” (Acts 22.8) Even in the blindness that accompanied this stunning revelation, Saul immediately perceived at least three truths. First, this Jesus of Nazareth, whom he had thought to be dead, was very much alive. Second, this same Jesus took very personally the “threats and murder” that Saul was breathing against his followers (Acts 9.1). Indeed, Jesus regarded that activity as directed against himself. “Why are you persecuting me?” he asked. Third, this revelation was a warning of divine mercy to Saul himself, a grace-filled call and opportunity to repent. Such was Saul’s introduction to the mystery of the Church. Jesus of Nazareth showed him the infinite mercy of revealing to him, at his very conversion, the truth that would remain central to his mind for the rest of his life. “whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me” (Mt 25.40). Paul perceived immediately an intimate identity between Christ and His disciples. Beware, he learned; touch the Church, and you touch Jesus of Nazareth. Paul’s next question was a very practical one. “What do you want me to do?” By way of response to this inquiry our Lord gave him not a single line of instruction beyond telling him to go and put himself under the authority of the Church. “Arise and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do” (Acts 9.6). This answer of the Lord to Saul was significant in two ways. First, it strengthened the substance of the original revelation itself, affirming once again the union between Church and Christ. It asserted that the Church has the authority to speak for Christ. This answer repeated, in specific reference to this Saul of Tarsus, what Jesus had earlier declared to the Church. “He who hears you hears me” (Lk 10.16). This was the first lesson the soon-to-be apostle was to learn at depth-that he enjoyed no special, one-on-one access to Christ that did not involve the Church. Christ would give Saul no instruction beyond, “Go into Damascus and do exactly what the Church tells you to do.” Second, in addition to conveying a truth important to all Christians, this answer of the Lord to Saul addressed the immediate context of his trip to Damascus. He was going there, after all, “so that if he found any who were of the Way, whether men or women, he might bring them bound to Jerusalem” (Acts 9.2). Now this same man must continue his journey into the city, “trembling and astonished” (9.6), blind and fasting (9.8-9), to submit the welfare of his soul to the very people he had come to arrest. Such was the new apostle’s introduction to the Christian life. He did not find salvation and then look around for likeminded folks with whom to throw in his lot. The Church-the visible body of human believers in Damascus-was not optional. It was of the very substance of the revelation that Saul received. He did not start with a personal theology about salvation and proceed to search for some group that agreed with that theology. No, the revelation of the risen Christ was also a revelation of the Church. In Paul’s experience, there was no separation between these two realities. The rest of Paul’s ecclesiology over the years was a development of this perception. First, it was at Damascus that the Church told him exactly how to get rid of his sins. “Arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord” (22.16). For Paul, forgiveness of sins was not something distinguishable from being baptized into the Church. That is to say, Paul learned that “by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body” (1 Cor 12.13). Through this sacramental experience he came to know that there is “one body and one Spirit . . . one Lord, one faith, one baptism” (Eph 4.4-5). Then, sharing in the Lord’s Supper, Paul learned the mystic source of the Church’s union with Christ, discerning that “we many are one bread, one body, for we all partake of that one bread” (1 Cor 10.17). The Church was Christ’s own body because she partook of that body through the celebration of the eucharistic mystery. In short, Paul’s experience of grace in his conversion included the meaning of the Church, the union of those joined to Christ and to one another in the living, specific, and defined institution with which Christ so completely identified himself.”
@@saenzperspectives I don't undetstand why you posted all of that. It didn't corralate to anything I said. The link doesn't correspond either. Please ask questions first. I think you've just posted something for the sake of it which is a shame.
@@saenzperspectives ps There is no eucharist mystery. The bible says we will do it in heaven at the end. We break bread in rememberance. We do it at home every day as they did in the beginning. I'm concerned how close to the roman catholics the orthodox Church is. Idols and graven images prayers to the dead, chanting like Buddhists. etc. However my concerns are irrelevant people will do what they will what I guess I can't seem get close to the orthodox Church. '
For those who game, "the cake is a lie" is a reference to the video game, Portal. It means the anticipated reward is never going to be yours and you were lied to to play a game. Over the past two days, it has become even more obvious that there are conspiracies in our country and church. Technology has made them possible because algorithms can see from our browsing what we look at and are most interested in. Recruitment happens, then different levels and groups within the scheme police each other and those below. It works because they're being lied to about what the eventual outcome is going to be. The only way to avoid them is to not lie. And even then, if one stumbles upon aspects of the controversy, gaslighting and blackmail threats are used to keep one silent. But the lower levels are being used. :( The only way out of the mess is truth, which is painful, but at least a person is free. As to covenants, any contract entered into then altered is subject to being voided for duress if the changed conditions are ones you only agreed to because of threats. The only way to "win" this game is refuse to play.
I amazingly can’t find any reason to disagree with any of the teachings of orthodoxy but being from baptist makes the saint veneration feel wrong even though I do fully understand and agree with the practice 😅 idk what that’s about.
Matthew 23:8-12 And call no man your father on the earth: for one is your Father, even he who is in heaven. Neither be ye called masters: for one is your master, even the Christ. But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant.
Hello I think the problem is putting “tradition” on the same level as scripture What Catholics seem to do is say they can trace their authority back to Peter, and since they think they are a succession of that authority, then what is taught from that seat of authority is truth The problem is that’s the same thing the Pharisees did They sat on the seat of Moses They were supposed to be successors of Moses so their tradition would be true But what did Jesus say about their tradition?? And why did he say it was wrong and how did he conclude it? Compared it to scripture If you teach tradition on the same authority level as scripture and it’s not founded in scripture and contradicts it then it’s wrong So saying “we are successors of Peter” doesn’t make your tradition true, let alone the same level as scripture Because it’s the same thing the Pharisees did “We are successors of Moses therefore our tradition is true and authoritative” Now insert Peter for Moses and that’s basically the Catholic argument I don’t think it works
For me i realized that unless i took everything that the church fathers said in agreement as gospel then i was possibly on the road to making my own man made version of Christianity. For instance God could be the universe or Jesus might just have been a man or just an angel or maybe we might still need to keep the Sabbath maybe same sex marriage is ok any one of those doctrines could be acceptable it was totally up to what i wanted to pick and choose. Once i realized that was what i was doing as a protestant it became very difficult for me to remain one.
@@ThruTheUnknown Yeah it seems like idolatory. Ironically one element of Orthodox worship that I have an instinctive nervousness of based on protestant background is the iconography and the petitions to saints. I think intellectually I am fairly convinced but still a bit nervous in case it's idolatrous. But it does seem like protestantism is an idolatrous road, maybe not to the same degree as pagan idolatry etc but it's a risk of self-authority.
@@colmwhateveryoulike3240 Yeah it does seem at face value idolatrous but a couple of things helped me there 1) Getting an orthodox prayer Book in terms of supplication to Mary and the saints it really helped me understand the orthodox view from that 2) Looking into the liturgy of Basil and Chrysostom as well 3) attending orthodox service where i found they venerated the bible as well. There's a lot more to support it than just that (bible verses, jewish evidence of doing the same and a few other points as well). But that's the short version of it anyway
Im having issues getting my wife to accept Holy Orthodoxy. Shebis steeped in Baptist, now Pentecostal theology. I tried the historicak explanation but she doesn't want to hear it. Any advice?
Thank you for this question. It's hard because we are dealing with free humans and not robots and we always need to remember that people come only to Christ freely. Remember that the almighty God that wants more than any of us to save all humans, is "unable" because we have free will. Saint Sofroney calls this "the risk of creation". What then shall we make of your or mine effort? Well, we need to recognize that whatever we do, we do it of love and we do it talking to humans given the gift of free will. I asked my wife that converted some years ago and she told me that one needs to learn to love the Church and therefore arguments are not always the best way to go. For her, reading the saints as saint Porfyrios' book "wounded by love" helped her a lot because she saw the love of God, genuine love, and holiness. Be a good example. Love her. Pray for your wife "Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, enlighten your servant (say your wife's name)" with prayer rope. When you pray your evening prayers, tell her that she is welcomed to join. Give her time, accept that she must come freely. Invite her to come to Church with you, don't argue with her on the way. Welcome any questions she has. My wife didn't convert due to any argument but when there was a little opening of the heart, Christ rushed to enter that heart. She was "wounded" by the love of Christ. Don't misunderstand me. Teaching is an important part of it. But we need to have discretion when to speak and when to not speak. If she says she doesn't want to hear it, it can do great harm if you push to mutch. Sadly I had to learn this the hard way. When I was younger, I pushed a person to mutch, and instead of taking this person closer to God, I took away the little faith this person had. I am accountable to God for this. I gave you some advice from my experience. I hope something of what was said can be helpful. Forgive me and pray for me.
I don't think I could of said it better than John. I agree with him. I've also pushed my wife too hard in the past and learned a devastating blow to our marriage. God be praised for His restoration and grace through it all. God knows your situation, He is very aware of your struggles. Have patience and pray continually about it seeking the face of God and being Christlike toward your wife purifying her by the washing of the word and by Christ example in you the hope of glory.
That wife use to be me. Would not verbally push the issue. Let her see your Orthothox life. Confess frequently, focus on your prayer corner, repent in tears. Plead to the Holy Mother of God and to Saint Monica.
Full stop, you cannot re-baptize a baptized believer in Jesus. That is PEAK arrogance…. And it is currently my number one dispute with Orthodox leaders. When he says he has baptized X amount of Protestants, I am naseauted to the core by his total disregard for what Christ had already done in their lives simply to lift up his own version of the church, even if it is the correct original church. Can you imagine a biblical scene where someone humbly went into the water with a believer and professed Christ as Lord and then an apostle walked up and said “actually you need to become a catechumen for three years under me and then I WILL baptize you”.
The difference is that in Jesus day and during the time of the apostles, there was only ONE church. Now there are 40k denominations, so time has to be taken to teach new inquirers so that they understand what our beliefs are and be sure they agree with these beliefs. It's a pastoral concern.
approx 5:27 -- Nope, the Original Church did NOT teach that "this fruit of the vine" was magically turned into Jesus' ACTUAL sacrificed blood -- *that false doctrine is calling Jesus a SINNER according to Jesus himself in Matthew 5:19-20 and Leviticus 17:10-11.* If Jesus was telling the Jews to disobey God's command in Leviticus 17:10-11 -- *to NEVER drink the blood of the sin sacrifice, because the sacrificed blood was ONLY to go ON THE ALTAR for the forgiveness of sins* -- then Jesus was a SINNER/least in the Kingdom of God. There is no drinking of sacrificed blood in the OT or NT (Acts 15:20)
Jesus told Christians to pray for God's Kingdom to come and for His will to be done on earth as it is in heaven. God's Kingdom is a heavenly government ruled by Jesus Christ as King. Soon Jesus as King of kings will bring beautiful changes to the earth. There will be no more death, pain or sorrow on earth, Revelation 21:4,5. No more wickedness on earth, Psalms 37:9-11; Psalms 145:20. The righteous hearted meek ones will inherit the earth and live forever on a cleansed earth, Psalms 37:29; Matthew 5:5; Proverbs 2:21,22. The earth will be cultivated into a Paradise like God intended in the beginning, Genesis 1:28; Isaiah 55:11. Jesus will do on a grand scale what he did when he walked the earth including raising those who are asleep in death, John 5:28,29. There will only be one government over the entire earth, God's Kingdom government, Daniel 2:44. In order to receive everlasting life and the blessings that God has promised, we must worship the Father with spirit and truth, John 4:22-24; John 17;3; Isaiah 42:8. Soon Jesus as King of kings will make sure that God's Will is done on earth as it is in heaven. Do you believe God's promises concerning the earth? Isaiah 55:11. Is this what you have been taught? May your Kingdom come Father, and your glorious will be done on earth as it is in heaven, Matthew 6:10! Hallelujah!
I am happily a Protestant but I find the Orthodox Church interesting. I think we are much closer to each other than either of us are to Catholics. I do think that reliance on the church fathers is the biggest fault I see in the Orthodox Church. St. Agustine was a truly brilliant man of God but his writing cannot be equated with Scripture. Protestants use the witness of Scripture to interpret Scripture which makes false interpretation essentially impossible. Many false Christians make Protestants seem unorganized but there is more agreement than disagreement among true believers.
Hi! Thank you for your comment. The Orthodox does not put the writings of a single Father above the Scriptures. The method of letting Scripture interpret Scripture is used by the Orthodox as well. However, your statement "Protestants use the witness of Scripture to interpret Scripture which makes false interpretation essentially impossible." is not right. Not only is there disagreement between sola-scriptura advocates on what the Bible teaches, but it was also always the heretics like Arians that went to the Bible without any regard to the broader Tradition of the Church, the canon of faith, which functions as the interpretative frame for understanding the Bible. The tradition is not so much an outer authority we go to but the catholic faith, the fullness of the Church experience being presented at every moment at every time. It is the continuous voice of the Spirit that makes the work of Christ present at every time. The consensus of the Fathers reflects exactly this. We cant then put the Bible in opposition to the consensus of the Fathers for the consensus is the very thing you talked about, the right interpretation. Remember that the Bible is not the words in themselves but rightly interpreted and that is why we need to look for the "mind" of the Scriptures. The same Holy Spirit that gave us the Bible is the same Holy Spirit that has kept the right interpretation throughout the ages. We Orthodox, when we appeal to the broader Tradition then, the canon of faith, the canon of truth, we appeal to the unbroken voice of the Spirit which is verified in the lives and teachings of the saints.
@@AccordingtoJohn I think there is much less disagreement among Protestants than the Catholics and the Orthodox like to claim. I would argue that the disagreements between different Protestant denominations are no more diverse than the disagreements between all of the church fathers. It doesn't take much study to reveal the fathers contradicted each other in dramatic ways and often contradicted themselves. Many fathers did not have the full Scriptures and many of them had ideas contradictory to the whole Bible. Scripture always outweighs their writings and all of them would probably agree with that.
Orthodox church and Romam Catholic church traditions added the kissing of icons, and many things not seen in scripture, Protestants simply leave those things out that where not there to begin with..
approx 2:36 -- Nope. *Protestantism started in the 4th century when the Roman church PROTESTED and SEPARATED from the Original Catholic Church headquartered in Greece.* The Roman church was the first Protesting church -- that is why she's called the Mother Harlot Church -- and all the little protesting/harlot churches came out of her -- see the Roman Church described in Revelation 17:4-6. In the 1500's a Roman Catholic named Luther decided to start the RETURN to following the writings of the Apostles/Original Church -- which was rejected by the Roman Vatican because they wanted to cling to their false added traditions instead of strictly following the words of GOD -- the same sin as the Pharisees (Matthew 15:1-9).
One thing that has me hesitating is this ---> A Greek Orthodox gentleman told me, while pointing to the Epitaphios, that Jesus Christ did not die to pay the price for my sins nor to be our Savior, but to serve as an "example" of how to live. REALLY? Does the Orthodox church not believe in substitutionary atonement?
1. No, Christ did not come to be just a "good man". 2. Here is an article on substitutionary atonement. I have not read it but I trust it will be ok. blogs.ancientfaith.com/orthodoxbridge/orthodox-christians-on-penal-substitutionary-atonement/
I don't know if most Greek Orthodox people have that sort of belief or not. What you mentioned here above is called cultural Christian, Christian atheist or even progressive Christian. These cultural Christians don't even believe in God or that Jesus is the son of God. The issue with the Orthodox church is that the average person doesn't know much about them and what they actually teach. Catholic and Protestant Christians have been out spreading the Gospel everywhere in the world so you can't blame people for becoming a Catholic or Protest Christian while some people has never heard of the Orthodox church.
The predominant view of the early church as I understand it was the Christus Victor view of the atonement. Penal Substitution has a lot of severe theological problems regarding the Deity of Christ and the Trinity.
All Christians should have the same standard. The sandard and final authority is the word of God. “All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting, and training in righteousness, so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work” (2 Timothy 3:16-17). "These things I write to you, though I hope to come to you shortly; but if I am delayed, I write so that you may know how you ought to conduct yourself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth. (I Timothy 3:14-15). Etc, etc.
8:45, I'm sorry brother, Historic Orthodoxy never had altars for worship, that became a denominational tradition, none of the apostles and saints prior to the death St.John practiced that!
"Make certain , therefore, that you all observe one common Eucharist, for there is but one body of our Lord Jesus Christ, and but one cup of Union with His Blood, and one single altar of sacrifice, even as there is but one Bishop, with his clergy and my fellow servitors, the deacons. this will ensure that all your doings are in full accord with the will of God." St. Ignatius of Antioch, Letter to the Philadelphians, chap. 4 107 AD St. John died in AD 100 (aged 93-94) place unknown, probably Ephesus, Roman Empire. 6 or 7 years aren't that much of a gap :) especially that St Ignatius was martyred in 108 AD, you could tell they had an altar even prior to 107 AD. Fr. Josiah made no mistake, as he only said, 'in the 1st eleven hundred years of the church', 8:47 ie, when the church was first established. St Ignatius wouldn't have spoken so firmly of an altar, Body & Blood, if it wasn't a commonality or sth they'd been familiar with even prior to St John's death since they were all originally Jewish (along with our Messiah Himself), brother. :)
Jesus of Nazareth did not found an ecclesiastical bureaucracy. The “one true Church” is that collection of scattered believers throughout the world in every tribe and nation and amongst all the ecclesiastical boundaries that have a true living faith in the gospel.
So... all of those letters of St. Paul were to "scattered believers".? With all due respect but you are completely ignorant about the history of the Church.
Which believers though? The correct belief is important, are those who believe jesus is only a prophet considered a believer? Or those who deny the humanity of christ, apollinarianism? Or Those who deny the divinity of christ? Gnostics? , arians? Or those that belive in god but not christ at all? Who are these scattered believers and how is it decided who is legitimate and who isnt? Who is a believer and who isnt? Who is in the church and who isnt?....the invisible church idea is actually very gnostic, it tends towards the denial of the humanity of christ, the immanent nature of god and the historical reality of the church, the church is trancendant and immanent just as god is, beyond the world and in the world
Jesus Christ gave Paul the New Testament. Paul was a contemporary of Christ. The new testament is part of the new testament. When Jesus save you from your sins by going to the cross and shedding his precious blood.
The most powerful prayer for my catholic church in this time to fight the power of darkness. Say it every day.Most precious blood of Jesus Christ. Save us and the whole world. 10x in a row In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.Amen Eternal Father you are the only immortal God who is Love, Merciful and Kind.Look at Your only begotten Son, Jesus Christ and have mercy.I offer you the pains of his scourging at the pillar;His wounds and blood for all your people who are living under the weight of the curse due to the sins of their ancestors,and their disobedience for breaking the covenant they made with you.May You set us free through the scourging of Your Son;Heal us through his wounds and save us through His Precious Blood.Amen ! Message of Jesus: Yes,My name be praised.My Father,I and My Spirit have done the Mighty work.All will come and bow down before My Presence before the Blessed Sacrament.Let all people know,this is My desire,that all come before Me,to My throne of Grace,My Presence is truly there.It's for all to come to adore and pay homage to their King,Lord and Saviour,the Mighty One is in their presence.They have to adore and worship.This is My command to you.You must tell people,My children,that their heavenly, eternal Father desires that not many of My children are coming before Me,to seek my face.They have turned away, their hearts are turned away from me.I am waiting,I am always for them to come towards Me but they will not come.You need to give this message to them;that I am waiting for them at the Blessed Sacrament. I want to give out blessings, blessings for them and to hear their needs.They will feel My power, when they pour their hearts out to Me;for as long as you seeks Me,I will be there for you.My power can work mighty in a person,who seeks Me,I will be there for you.My power can work mighty in a person,who seeks Me and longs for Me. "Ordinary catholic families cannot survive.They must be extraordinary catholic families. They must be what I do not hesitate to call 'heroic' catholic families.Ordinary catholic families are no match for the devil as he uses media of communication to secularize and desacralize modern society.No less than ordinary individual catholics can survive,so ordinary catholic families cannot survive.They have no choice. They must either be holy- which means sanctified - or they will disappeared". Fr John Hardon S.J Many Catholics easily stray away from the faith that they received. What are the reasons for their falling into complacency, becoming indifferent and even hostile towards Christ and the Christian Faith? The fault with many Catholics is that they think baptism is a graduation from having acquired knowledge and understanding of their faith. After completing their catechism classes or RCIA journey, they no longer seek out opportunities to continue growing their faith, both doctrinally and spiritually. Their only occasion to grow in faith is the one-hour Mass that they attend every Sunday. This is hardly enough to sustain the life of a Catholic. Those who do not grow in their faith are already losing their faith. There is no neutrality. How, then, can we grow in our faith? Firstly, we need to deepen our intimacy with God through Christ. In Christ, we come to know and love the Father. Secondly, we must be rooted in the Word of God. We cannot grow in our faith without deepening our love and appreciation for the Word of God through bible study and most of all, a prayerful reading and sharing of the Word of God. Thirdly, we must seek the support of the Christian community. A Catholic without the support of his fellow Catholics will eventually fall out from the faith, especially when he undergoes the trials and challenges of life, the influence of secularism, and the materialistic, individualistic and atheistic views of the world. Fourthly, to grow our faith, we need to evangelise and be a witness to Christ. We evangelise ourselves by evangelising others. By sharing our faith with others, we strengthen our own faith. By teaching our faith to others, we grow in understanding and clarity in what we believe in. Finally, growing in faith is to grow in our Christian life. This is the most effective form of witnessing. It means that those of us who are baptised must live a life of holiness and purity, free from sin and a bad conscience. A life of holiness and charity are the fruits of a strong spiritual life and a life of hope founded in the promises of God. If the Catholic Church is accused of being satanic, that is no more than its Founder, Jesus Christ, was accused of. When our Lord was on earth, he had the same problem. He was driving demons out, and some said he was doing this by the power of the devil. How did Jesus respond? He said, “How can Satan drive out Satan? If a kingdom is divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand. And if a house is divided against itself, that house will not be able to stand. And if Satan has risen up against himself and is divided, he cannot stand; that is the end of him” (Mk 3:23-26). The Catholic Church drives out the devil, too. This practice is called exorcism. No one can deny that the Catholic Church has been doing exorcisms on people and driving out Satan for nearly two millennia. Therefore, we must reason like Jesus: If the Catholic Church were from the devil, it could not drive the devil out. We shouldn’t be surprised when such charges are made against the Catholic Church. Jesus told us, “A disciple is not above his teacher, nor a servant above his master; it is enough for the disciple to be like his teacher and the servant like his master. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebul, how much more will they malign those of his household” (Mt 10:24-25). Weak Catholics become protestants Strong Protestants become Catholics,
The opening statemnet could have been said by a Roman Catholic, I considered the Eastern Orthodox church but have since rejected it completely. Banging on about the 15th and 16th century is just pharisiac nonsense, Protestants are small c catholics and come from and refer to the same tradition, but this guy talks like protesants invented themselves independantly. It is enough for Orthodox christians to distinuish themselves as the oldest continueing iteration of the church.. Fine. But the claim 'we are the only church' = Christs golden boys basically, which is opposed to %90 of christendom and is the kind of claim i would expect from cults like Jehovah's witnesses. So cockadoodledoo "father"
Christ hates false doctrines.... read your Bible and pay attention to that specific detail. Orthodox Church maintains original Faith as Lord delivered it to the ancient Church. Those with the false doctrines have fallen from the Church and gates of Hades prevailed over them. Lord had said that His Church will be pillar and ground of the truth (Matthew 16, 18). So.. if false doctrines are believed in various religious groups, how can they be The Church.?
@@johnnyd2383 The church is not there its over here? No. that is not up to you. Christ is head of the church and the kingdom that is 'not of this world' is not confined to the Orthodox church or any one institution. By the way how is your Schism with the Russians going? See what I mean?
@@Nonreligeousthiestic Your view of the Church can not pass the test of history. It did not exist prior to 16th century and it is invention of those who realized that there is not salvation w/o the Church, yet they did not want to submit to the authority of the EOC (google for phrase "luther had his chance"). They have found false resolution of the problem in an "invisible church"... novelty never heard of before. BTW: You do not have Orthodox Phronema and thus you are unable to understand the way Orthodoxy operates.
This comment has not convinced me at all! I have always seen the reformers as true prophets who, just as in ancient Israel, arose to denounce the deviations of the People. In the same way the Protestant reformers did in relation to the Catholic Church, so the Protestant reformation does not return to patristic, it is not a return to the ancient saints of the church as well... it is a return to pure and genuine Apostolic Faith. Unfortunately, even within Protestantism there were also deviations and sectarianism, however this is nowhere near enough to take away the beauty of the Restoration that Christ promoted in his church. Well, thank you so much for this video, I continue being even more presbyterian than ever after watching all this. Thanks a lot!
Joseph Smith and his believers believe the same thing. You buddy are the not the judge of ecumenical Counsels. To make yourself the judge of ecumenical councils is to call yourself the Pope of your own faith. Very simply put protestants within the last 50 years don't even believe the Same thing protestants believed 100 or two hundred years ago if the faith is always changing your always believing something completely different each decade/century or so. How can you ever trust the so called truth when the faith/doctrine is always changing?
I would agree with you to a degree and disagree with you in other aspects. I agree that the GOAL of the Reformation was to denounce a church going astray and to repent and get back on track. (at least what the west thought was the Church). So at least the intention was obviously a good intention and i don't think anybody would debate that. Where I disagree is the perceived success of Protestantism. Even as a protestant at the time, i was no fool. I knew very well that the philosophy was a failure. I only read my bible and prayed to God to have mercy on me because I did the best that I could with all the research that i would do on the side to better understand. The point of patristic is to SEE the continuity with the apostles. That was the complaint and still is the complaint of Orthodox towards Rome. They abandoned the partristic theology and replaced it with scholastic. THAT is why Rome fell into so many innvoations. That is why thousands of sects fall into innovations. Rome since the schism has changed. Protestantism has changed. Orthodoxy hasn't changed. Because it's patristic. Patristic as in the fathers refusing to believe what the apostles did not pass down. That's the nature of being patristic. Orthodoxy never budged. All you said, you can say to Rome because it's always beens Rome's problem. I'm not telling you that you should regain your heritage and be Orthodox. It's up to you. But at least KNOW what Orthodox mean
I am a former Protestant, have been an Orthodox apologist for 8 years, but in the last 2 years, I have found that Orthodoxy has lost what it is so proud of. I would not advise Protestants to convert to Orthodoxy.
@@AccordingtoJohn Protestants believe that the King of England can be a Freemason of the Thirty Third Degree, but not a Roman Catholic. If you want to recruit among these people, it's up to you.
The video has a sad and delusional message! The Church of Jesus Christ is who we are as Christians; it is not where we meet, headed up by a group of self-appointed and overdressed authorities. Seek Jesus Christ, our true mediator, and not an institution that presents itself as a mediator to our true mediator. Truth is found in Jesus Christ and God's recorded Holy Word, the Bible; it's not found in the Roman Catholic or Orthodox Catholic Churches, which have added numerous doctrines and false teachings to earn salvation while disguised in a veneer of religious rituals and eternal piety, something Jesus Christ and the apostles rejected, much less never endorsed or promoted. To earn your salvation through works is to separate yourself from Jesus Christ and His true Church, which the Catholic Churches have done with their false teaching of works salvation. Jesus is not accessed through a Catholic religious system, be it Romanist or Orthodox. Jesus Christ is accessible through the conversion, baptism, and work of the Holy Spirit (not to be confused with Catholic water baptism). The gift of God is salvation and reconciliation between God and man, which comes by God's grace alone, through faith alone, in Jesus Christ alone. Blessings †
First Bishops of the ancient Church were those 70 disciples Lord chose Himself. They ordained next generation of Bishops and so on... that is what is called Apostolic Succession. In the Orthodox Church such lineage of ordinations is maintained and every contemporary Bishop has roots back in original generation of disciples Christ chose.
@@johnnyd2383 The Orthodox Church is an organization of men, regardless of what claims are made for it. The ark is the Church that Christ heads and the Church roll is kept in heaven, not in a diocese office.
@@Richard-e5m ... so those outside of the Ark in the times of Noah kept looking up into the heavens as rain poured down, instead in Noah's Ark ignoring their salvation. But, it takes a humble mind to submit to the authority of The Church. Not an easy feat to leave throne of Pope every Protestant occupies.
@@johnnyd2383 You have still not given me anything that says the Eastern orthodox Church is "the ark." I certainly don't sit on any papal throne. The only one who has the right to sit on the throne of the Kingdom is Jesus Christ, and the eastern Orthodox Church does not control the gate. The Holy Spirit controls it.
@@Richard-e5m Here are some hints for you to consider... 1. Lord promised perpetuity of His Church. 2. There are only three groups that historically have roots in ancient Church: EOC, RCC and Orientals. 3. Orientals fell to Monophysite heresy back in 5th century. 4. RCC fell to many heresies (no need to name them). 5. EOC maintains original Faith as received at the Pentecost thus maintaining Apostolic Succession. 6. Mark 16, 16 spells put the requirements for salvation. 7. By unpacking requirements we can find that there is no Baptism outside of The Arc (remember Simon who wanted to buy the Gift). This should suffice for now. Let me know if any of these is not clear enough. Cheers.!
Christianity is dead but Christ is alive. It is not possible to be a Christian in the original sense anymore. If this is what Christianity really is, I'm not interested in the least, not one single bit. However, if Christianity is God reaching out to a condemned world, a God who once killed all but eight and a God who wishes not to kill but to save and to elevate and glorify man, then I am in. But I have no interest in this or in Jehovah Witnesses. I cannot stand the thought of being this bored for all of eternity. No thanks.
Hindu trinity Bhrahma Vishnu Shiva Christian trinity Father son holy spirit All pagan religions have trinity as part of their belief and traditions. Christianity seems to be more close to hinduism than Judaism and Islam. Ex Christian and Muslim Alhamdulillah ☝
I’m currently Protestant, I’ve recently begun to learn about Orthodox Church, my heart is being stirred for orthodox, and I recently purchased an orthodox study Bible.
Happy to hear that!
Great! I converted not too long ago myself. It’s the best decision I’ve ever made.
Same here
Same. Spent 4 years studying it. Soon to be Chrismated. You life will NEVER be the same.
@@tsarconstruction9118
That’s awesome to hear, I’m still studying and listening to sermons by orthodox. Also, been going through the book of Sirach, which has been such a huge blessing. I can’t understand why the Protestants took that one out, I’m sure the same can be said about the others books as well I just haven’t gotten around to reading them .
God bless you,
I have been Presbyterian most of my life and visited many other churches. I have such peace and joy now that I am a catechumen in the Antiochian Orthodox Church.
I‘m currently protestant and there are still many teachings in the Orthodox Church that I find hard to accept. But man, I love the Orthodox Church! I feel drawn to it. It’s a beautiful Church and they have backbone in todays day and age which many protestant Churches don’t have. I like learning more about the Orthodox Church ☦️✝️
I agree, the icons, worship to Mary and saints for example, the Bible is very clear about all that, just our Lord Jesus Christ is worth all worship and praise! That's the Bible teaches us!
@@diosmioysenormio9710 look with all due respect you’re misguided and don’t know what the teachings are. No one worships Mary and the saints. The icons of the saints don’t mean much considering they’re not graven images because Jesus is not the God of the dead but God of the living. However what is a sin is to misrepresent, please stop misrepresenting the Orthodox Church and go to one and ask questions to a priest.
I’m coming out of Protestantism and seriously committing to the Eastern Orthodox Church.
Fr. Josiah Trenham is a great man of God and I have learned so much about Orthodoxy from him. The Orthodox Church is truly divine and beautiful. I got an Orthodox Study Bible too! ☦️📿
Slava!
Wish it was longer Fr. Trenham is such a blessing.
Yes! Me too, he is very busy as you can imagine, but we will do this again God willing
@@AccordingtoJohn See if you can get him to share his journey to Orthodoxy in detail.. he shared some details here and there but that would be really helpful to people.
@@Orthoindian Yes, I agree. Here is an interview with him if you have not already seen it: th-cam.com/video/piVdrtgo7Xw/w-d-xo.html
The Lord Jesus is doing an amazing work among Protestants, I am a testament to that. I was an Evangelical Protestant for 20 years and now beginning my journey to becoming Orthodox.
It’s a dope journey! If you’re not already home, keep going! If your home, welcome home!
@@DRognstad01 still going! I have classes at my parish starting next month
@@andys3035 Beautiful! Pray lots, meet the Saints. There is a children’s podcast called Tending The Garden of Our Hearts. It was awesome for a convert like me. Keeping going, you’re almost home.
I was raised Protestant myself, pray for my family to have their eyes opened. They aren't really interested in hearing my reasons.
@@IndyColts1987 I encourage you to keep going and pray. My conversion to Orthodoxy has cost me relationships. I have one family member not even talking to me and others calling me a heretic, others mocking my icon corner in my house. Funny enough, this is coming from a oneness Pentecostal and another a Calvinist. Praying for you my friend. Be strong.
Father Josiah Trenham was instrumental in my return to Holy Orthodox Church..... and I am so relieved and happy to be back. ❤️☦️
Eucharist Angel that is incorrect. Holy Orthodoxy teaches that both faith and works are connected and both are necessary for salvation, although no amount of works will save us.
Eucharist Angel You are preaching salvation by faith alone. This is not true. James 2:24 “You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.” It was always the belief of the Church that faith without works is dead.
@Eucharist Angel So if I believe that Jesus Christ died on the cross and ressurected from the dead but I go and kill someone or don't give a damn for my neighbours, I'm saved by faith alone? Cherrypicking and twisting Bible verses, especially Ephesians 2:8-9, is all that Protestantism can offer. Read Matthew 25:31-46, only works will matter on Judgment Day. And btw, the Pope is NOT the leader of our church. Praying you'll get out of this confusion you're in.
@Eucharist Angel Faith alone means not questioning, it means blind faith which is demanded to all of as who were not witnesses of what is related in the Bible. It doesn't mean that since you've have accepted Jesus as you're Lord and Savior you're on vacation. We will be judged by our works on Judgment Day. Protestantism is all about apopstasy, and who's the king of apostasy? Just saying...
@Eucharist Angel If you can not walk in love with someone you disagree with, which by the way wrote the book you are misquoting, you are lost.
Most Orthodox priests will even admit only god knows your heart and is the judge. My Grandma devoted her whole life to Jesus in a Protestant Church. If not for her foundation I never would have found Orthodoxy since my parents didn't believe in god. You should be thankful for the people in your life that blessed you with their presence.
❤100%
Protestants should go where there is the fullness of the faith; where Christ's words of life are taught and lived out; where the love of Christ is emphasized; and where there is a plan for spiritual growth. For me, this path is leading to Orthodoxy. I was (or considered myself) to be a devout Protestant from a conservative Baptist family. I read the Bible, prayed, taught Sunday School, and honestly tried to live the Christian life, but something was always missing. Protestantism's a-historical nature and lack of historical continuity nagged me, as did what I learned about the development of the Bible. In Orthodoxy I did NOT find the ancient church I expected to find in some ways, but I believe that I have found the TRUTH about the ancient church, backed up by historical records and archaeology. My faith and what I know about church history and development are no longer at odds. Neither are there still nagging questions about how Jesus and some of the Apostles seemed to teach the necessity for obeying Jesus' commands and perseverance in the Faith, while as Protestants we're taught that (intellectual) faith alone is needed for salvation. (The "Jesus vs. Paul" issue troubles many sincere Protestants.) The process of me coming to these conclusions, though, wasn't quick and certainly wasn't easy. It was during a time when I was studying the New Testament for certain projects that I finally had to admit that the New Testament did NOT teach salvation by (intellectual) faith alone, and certainly did not teach "once-saved-always-saved." Sola fide was NOT "the gospel," as I had been taught, but an interpretation (from the 16th century) based on selected scriptures, while excluding other scriptures. Orthodoxy's theology of salvation, however, which is about the necessity of having a living, growing, REAL relationship with Jesus, is what many Protestants are searching for in their hearts, I think. In fact, the deep personal knowledge, emphasis on humility rather than boastful hypocrisy, and need for spiritual growth is what the Holy Spirit tries to teach all of us. There are many other issues, such as Mary, the use of icons, and praying repetitive prayers, that a Protestant has to work through, of course. There are resources on these issues available online from this site and others, and in book form, however. For Protestants there has to be what I can only describe as a massive paradigm shift from what for them is often an individualistic, a-historical, head/logic focused, sometime anti-authoritarian denomination to the more Church-as-living-ancient-liturgical-community and noetic reality of Orthodoxy. I know that, in my case, it would have been difficult to find a Christian church any more different than Orthodoxy was from my family's Protestant faith. From the length of this answer, though, I think you can sense the depth of what I've discovered in Orthodoxy. Even in my short time as a catechumen, I've seen spiritual growth, and so much about the early church and even the Bible now makes more sense both historically and theologically. God bless you.
I'd be interested in hearing from my former Protestant friends who have gone Orthodox or Catholic. I'm finding so much richness in preReformation Tradition that I have ignored in my Protestant upbringing. As z first strp I've dropped Sola Scripture and can see Christ more clearly.
If you want to discuss your jouney with me I'd love to hear it.
This video helps explain where I am.
My experience is similar. I’ve been a member of an Orthodox parish for 14 years-having come out of a congregation with Conservative Baptist roots. The journey has been more arduous than I could ever have conceived, but the difficulties are no longer rooted in an incoherent view of the Church or the Scriptures, and that makes all the difference. I have no regrets. I’m home to stay.
Most Orthodox priests will even admit only god knows your heart and is the judge. My Grandma devoted her whole life to Jesus in a Protestant Church. If not for her foundation I never would have found Orthodoxy since my parents didn't believe in god. You should be thankful for the people in your life that blessed you with their presence.
That's not what sola fide is. With the ignorance of historic Protestant doctrine among so many Orthodox/Catholic converts, I'm not surprised they converted. Catechesis is an issue for so many Protestant churches.
Not sure what denomination you are speaking of, but I do not know any church that contends you are saved by intellectual faith alone. Even Satan has intellectual faith. I think perhaps you just didn’t understand what is meant by “faith.”
I love Father Trenham's clarity of teaching! God has endowed him with a gift for explaining Christian theology in a manner that is easy to understand. Thank you Father Trenham, and thank you God!
Excellent! Thank you, Father. I am a convert to the Faith and my husband and
many friends are Calvinists. They deny that Jesus established the Priesthood, as well as other things you mentioned. I pray that the Lord will end all heresies. Lord have mercy on us. ☦️🙏🏻
Previous Reformed Presbyterian who became a Reformed Baptist. I used to and still do discussions and debates with muslims. During one debate St. John of Damascus came up and I decided to do research on him, then I decided to to more research on the Church fathers and the early Chruch. I discovered the authentic Church Christ established. Now I am Orthodox. Glory be to God.
I also speak with Muslims (mainly those who fled Kabul). I would be interested in what you have learned.
John of Damascus has been my "gateway drug" too! Not yet Orthodox and still have some worries - but I'm close!!
Very thought-provoking and should be of some assistance for when I inevitably get into arguments with my Protestant counterparts. I have a roommate currently who is especially hard headed. When I was first invited to attend Orthodox service, I was absolutely blown away, as it felt like true worship to me. This is greatly contrasted with my own Protestant upbringing which regrettably relies on the sort of sermon style of message delivery, a few poorly delivered contemporary Christian songs which always feel stilted and off, and feels more like a pep talk for the week rather than actually worshiping God in any meaningful way. So, I came back from service and had a discussion with him and all he could do was just try to poke holes in worship of the Theotokos, and veneration of the Icons. You know as well as I that there is no issue, and is in fact encouraged. He says something to the effect of, "why bother with that when you can just pray to Jesus" and "that's idolatry" and all this other nonsense. Protestants are dilettantes, and the have the nerve to throw humbleness back in my face. It's frustrating when they abuse my good will knowing that I'm not going to stoop to the same level. The history, the ecclesiology, veneration of the icons, the censors burning, the asceticism, and the dogma are what makes for a truly worthwhile experience, and as much as I would like for him to see that, I think he confuses his disdain for me, and projects it onto the Orthodox church. Most people are content lay around in the muck and mire, complain, but then do nothing about it. Can't save people who are unwilling to participate in their own rescue.
Fr. Trenham brings up excellent points which I believe will do me well to keep them close to my heart. Pre-16th century, XYZ flavor of Protestantism didn't exist, and yet the claim is that sola fide, and sola scriptura is all that is necessary. Sorry Protestants, that is ecumenism, and it is heresy. Yes, it is possible for you to be saved and not be Orthodox, it is not the place of the church to make a weighing of your chrismation/baptism, however, there is only one framework which can ever be consistent. And you know what else? It doesn't suffer from the pervading worldliness that infects and denigrates everything that it touches. Thank you for the content, helped me to find words for something that I felt was ineffable.
I am protestant (almost two years born again) i am interested in the orthodox faith. there is something that draws me to it. I have been praying and i was actually born into a orthodox family. never learned the faith but two years ago i became a christian. I was very anti catholic and anti orthodox but now after watching some stuff and reading. It does make more sense. Why would Christ allow the church to go "astray" acording to protestants. it just doesnt make any sense. Is there anyone who can recommend me books, sites, resources to study about the orthodox faith?
God bless.
Hi! Thank you for sharing that. One thing besides reading you could do is to visit an Orthodox church and talk to the priest.
At ancient faith, you have books and podcasts you could look at store.ancientfaith.com/intro-to-orthodoxy/
A good patristic series is this: svspress.com/categories/Popular-Patristics-Series/
There are books there on the icons, on the incarnation, etc written by the church fathers.
I also recommend this book: www.amazon.com/Saint-Silouan-Athonite-Archimandrite-Sophrony/dp/0881411957
This is more or less a classic today. It will give you a good introduction to the spirit of the Orthodox mindset as well as Orthodox theology. Reading the teachings and lives of the saints is a good way to go.
@@AccordingtoJohn Awesome my brother, thankyou. I do however have one final quesion. It seems that i cant really find a NKJV or NASB version of an orthodox bible?
i know there is a orthodx study bible nkjv but the old testament is in kjv. also i just want a bible with text nkjv or nasb or nlt even but there are none?
Thanks for replying i appreciate that.
@@buffsoldierofchrist5907 No problem brother!
The Old Testament in the Orthodox Study Bible is in part the Septuagint en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orthodox_Study_Bible
It contains also articles.
I don't think the Study Bible exists without the notes.
On the internet, you can find the Septuagint Old Testament: www.ellopos.net/elpenor/greek-texts/septuagint/default.asp
You can also buy the Septuagint version but it is not translated by Orthodox to the best of my knowledge. www.amazon.com/Septuagint-Apocrypha-Greek-English/dp/0913573442
or
www.bookdepository.com/A-New-English-Translation-of-the-Septuagint-Albert-Pietersma/9780195289756?redirected=true&Google&Base1&GR&A-New-English-Translation-of-the-Septuagint&selectCurrency=EUR&w=AFFMAU99VKZYJ1A8VCYB&pdg=pla-293946777986:cmp-10333853204:adg-102381595625:crv-443211599716:pos-:dev-c&gclid=Cj0KCQiAhZT9BRDmARIsAN2E-J2jvGicLhtgx842tMNNiRlJYCgozJcLDNLwSRmkYUgaV2UixfkODFUaAmPLEALw_wcB
@@AccordingtoJohn i understand what you are saying bro. what i mean is why isnt there a bible with nkjv translation that has all the orthodox canon? so isnt there just a "normal" orthodox translation of the bible?
@@buffsoldierofchrist5907 Same story in my case: i was also born into a orthodox family. never learned the orthodox faith and then became a christian and anti orthodox, but after rediscovering the discernment of orthodox spirituality I became again interested in orthodoxy and since then finally living the orthodox faith...
REALLY EXCELLENT as ever from Fr Josiah Trenham!
Yes! His answers are so spot on!
Nice journalism, brother. I like your questions. Keep it up!
Thank you!
Learning much here.
I have not attended church in many years.
Have had a mixture of church attendance. Although I’ve never agreed with everything in any church I have attended. However, learned much on my own.
Although my faith in God and Jesus Christ as my savior has always been core.
I feel I am being pulled spiritually to learn more. I am a person who studies and I have read so much on different Christian beliefs.
Wow!! Fr. Josiah is very much a blessing!
Great stuff, thoroughly enjoy Fr. Trenham's stuff.
I'm from a Protestant background as of late I'm seriously considering Orthodox I got the Orthodox study Bible
Wish you the best of luck.
I was Baptist before becoming a Catechumen in the Orthodox Church.
The worship in the Orthodox faith is actually holy.
Glory be to God.
damn! The video stream chopped up right when father Trenham was making a profound point about the Mormon faith there at the end of the interview. I would love to know what he actually said there. I get the gist, obviously, but I would like to know exactly what his words were.
God bless!! Fr. Trenham ended up with us by a twist of fate, I think. And of faith!! God bless.
Excellent questions
My family (husband and older teens) is bothered by kissing icons and prostrations towards the cross. I love Orthodoxy, but the physical part of it is so difficult for people used to just sitting and standing.
Introduce them to church history. Do they really think Christians have historically worshipped like the modern protestants do - just sitting and standing? Or was their prayer life much more dynamic? What about sacred objects which the Biblical story is absolutely packed with? The Ark of the Covenant, the Holy of Holies, Elijah's robe, Elisha's bones, pieces of Jesus's garment from Acts, and even Paul's cloak? What about all the liturgical elements of Old Testament worship - were all those simply abolished with Jesus? Did Jesus introduce just a modern, flat form of worship? Or was the prayer and liturgical life of the early Church a continuation of transfigured practices of the Old Testament? God bless!
They are right to be put off by those practices. The early church fathers were essentially unanimous in their staunch opposition to the use of images in worship (as well as, of course, the commandments in Scripture). Actually reading the early church fathers (rather than being told "the early church fathers believed and practiced Eastern Orthodoxy" by EO apologists) is a major part of what led me out of Eastern Orthodoxy. The modern-day Eastern Orthodox dogmatic accretions would be absolutely foreign (and in several cases, utterly abhorrent) to the early church. Eastern Orthodox apologists will claim that the early church were all Eastern Orthodox in belief and practice, but it is simply not true, and this is borne out especially in the church father writings of the roughly the first 300 years of church history.
Hearing a couple out-of-context, cherry-picked church fathers quotes led me into Eastern Orthodoxy, but actually reading their writings, in full and in context, led me out of Eastern Orthodoxy and back to the actual Gospel.
@@moiseybeliy5458 If you have time, can you direct me to those passages or Fathers where I can read the entire thing? The similarity to temple worship and Jewish practice makes me think it's directly coming from Judaism, not just pagan introductions. Besides, Peter was told to eat all the unclean things, and they started worshipping on Sunday instead of Saturday, so things that seem pagan are actually now redeemed. That's what makes me think icons are the new testament answer to "no graven images", just as keeping the Sabbath is now just being in Christ since He's Lord of the Sabbath. Jesus is the image of the invisible God, thus we can make and venerate His image. I kiss an icon like I'd kiss my mother's cheek. Doing this had actually made me question whether I've ever really worshipped God. It's really more than an emotional experience. He deserves so much and we're so incapable.
I’m a Protestant Evangelical for 23 yrs. I came to Christ at age 25. I’m considering becoming Eastern Orthodox. However, I need help answering one hang up. It has to do with prayer, the dead, the icons and Mary. I’ve read and watch E.Orthodox say we pray to God, yet commune with departed saints and pray with them and not to them. I’ve also read the prayers in the liturgy to the Virgin Mary. Yet, we can only pray to God for departed dead. So, what is it? Everyone dead is departed, so we can only pray to God on their behalf. Yet, through icons we can pray to the most holy Mary. This doesn’t sit with me because I don’t think Scripture hints at such an prayer activity, but I’d like to be corrected, and I don’t know of any early church fathers hinted at the idea. Can you help?
I can help you with your questions. Im Eastern Orthodox. I'm not a theologian but any question Im unable to answer, I take it to my parish father. I have a discord where we can talk if you have a microphone. If you are interested please say so, and I will post my discord info so that you can add me.
They're not dead.
God is a God of the living, not the dead.
30 For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven. 31 But regarding the resurrection of the dead, have you not read what was spoken to you by God: 32 ‘I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? He is not the God of the dead but of the living.” 33 When the crowds heard this, they were astonished at His teaching. - Matthew 22:30-33
What to do? It's horrible that in USA many priests have discontinued Sunday (and all gathering) services and other priests who continue services, in addition to enforcing mask-wearing, administer the Eucharist with separate spoons for all. Plus, the Orthodox churches here in USA are registered 501(c)(3) non-profit religious organization entities, that is: have given headship of churches over to the State. Word-wide, all except few bishops and archbishops of all the Eastern Orthodox Churches are participating members of the WCC, the World Council of Churches, that is: the ecumenical one world religion movement. Please pray for me: i wanted to become an Orthodox Christian but now it's virtually impossible for this one as i am island bound/locked. And may God bless you for doing so. Thank you.
Brother you will find relief. Read the holy books and the Patheric,seek comunion and Eucharist . God ia faithful,noone stops you of living orthodoxy
@@johnjcb4690 thanks for the kind word. please pray for me as i am unbaptized into the Orthodox Church and so 1) can''t get Eucharist. 2) am stuck on an island and the only parish chapel on my side of the island, other than introducing himself as Father ___, the priest has never spent a minute to talk to me face-to-face the 3 or 4 times i went and I stayed every time being one of the last to leave 3) and he is serving the Eucharist with separate spoons so i don't respect him. And the other side chapel (and only other priest) is 1 3/4 hours away and closed. ... "the Patheric'?
@@TedBruckner you will for sure...be confident
I wish there was a good Orthodox church here in Nashville
There are at least 5 churches... just google on following phrase "Nashville orthodox church".
Quick question, do y'all have a video planned about why Roman Catholics should become Orthodox? While I am already in the long path of doing so, I'd like to get some pointers in order to translate into Spanish and help more people find the Faith. Down here in South America we live fully in Vatican 2 "Catholicism ", and each day more people either go to the SSPX (which is downright coping as they still try to be subject to Rome but do several loopholes to accommodate to what the Protestantization of the Church, I've been there) or become Evangelicals or just outright become irreligious/atheists/"cultural Christians". Thus, Orthodoxy is direly needed. Thanks in advance!
Yes, brother, I will do interviews for example on the papacy and how it came about so that more people are informed about it. I have never been to South America but I have heard that in some places there is a growth of the Orthodox Church but there is a lot more to do.
3 years later I don't know whether you 'll see this comment but I have read a very interesting book which might be helpful to you: "My exodus from Roman Catholicism" by Bishop Paul de Ballester.
I going to read it again ... from Ethuopia
Actually reading the early church fathers (rather than being told "the early church fathers believed and practiced Eastern Orthodoxy" by EO apologists) is what led me out of Eastern Orthodoxy. The modern-day Eastern Orthodox dogmatic accretions would be absolutely foreign (and in several cases, utterly abhorrent) to the early church.
Hearing a couple out-of-context, cherry-picked church fathers quotes led me into Eastern Orthodoxy, but actually reading their writings, in full and in context, led me out of Eastern Orthodoxy and back to the actual Gospel.
Amen. I left Orthodoxy as well. Their we're-the-original-church PR campaign is effective. However, Orthodoxy isn't the gospel.
Worst decision if your lives ! Enjoy the woke pope and pedo priests performing same sex marriages 😂😂
So where do you go now?
Interesting what denominations do you hold in high regard?
just because an organisation didn't exist didn't mean the church of believers were not around meeting in homes and reading the separate books of the Bible before the catholics compiled them
Most people back then (nearly 98%) wete illiterate. Because of that icons depicting passages of separate books of a "pre bible" were used. Search for Dura Europa church. Also, look for the Didakhe and other sources about practices carried on by christians in the I to III centuries, none of them just gathered to read the bible at home, they did have liturgies, altars, eucharist, etc. Christians underground claves in Capadoccia still hace elements of this primitive christians.
As a Protestant who respects the EO church and is busy investigating it I've found that Orthodox Christians very much dislike having their position mischaracterized (rightly so)
But i do find, in this interview included, that EO Christian's also mischaracterize Protestants which is unfortunate
I feel a kinship to orthodoxy its strange i never knew anything about it. Are all preists as kind as this one are there bad ones? Every preist i have heard is like this with genuine concern for the parishners so many pastors in the protestant faith either dont know as much as i do or are in a hurry to get home and watch football nowadays i dont care to go through the motions of going to a protestant church. That and rapture theology with no basis in scripture really turns me off to it.
Every Orthodox clergyman I have methas had deep humility and pastoral care of the parishioners. I'm sure there are some who are not as suited for the job, you'll find that anywhere. But this is the only church I've been a part of with the level of humility I've experienced that can still answer all of my questions.
Hello! Im sorry to bother but I was wondering what was the name of the chants in the end, I really would like to listen to them regularly and learn more about them (protestant inquiring into Orthodoxy)
You are not bothering me at all! Thank you for your question. His name is Παντελέημων Καρτσώνας and lived on Mount Athos. There are some recordings on youtube like this one: th-cam.com/video/Pn43L_oNIZU/w-d-xo.html
@@AccordingtoJohn do you by any chance have the link for the specific chant you played in the end?
@@Maria-zc1dx Yes: th-cam.com/video/dnpolQJAR10/w-d-xo.html
Some say that the altar and church building began with Constantine? There's a book called "Pagan Christianity" by Frank Viola that I think makes this claim. I read some of that book about 10 years ago.
@Christa Aronis
why do you use all caps?
Check out the book if you like, it has historical references. Of course these issues can be debated too.
@Christa Aronis I have personally been looking into orthodox Christianity myself also. I have a book that was written by the orthodox for protestants called "west of Jesus" by Anthony.
@Christa Aronis I meant the altar and church building etc being implemented in Christianity. Because such a thing isn't written about in the scriptures. I am unsure if any of the church fathers wrote about that.
@Christa Aronis I'm not coming from a Sola scriptura perspective.
@Christa Aronis if I referenced the church fathers that's not Sola scriptura. Tradition is good. But not everything your church practices today was dogma in the early church. Things changed due to circumstances and time.
I'm Roman Catholic however Father Josiah I'm a fan of yours. The Protestants could have troubles with Orthodoxy as much as they do with Roman Catholicism. In my view they should choose one of them. If they wanted to experience the fullness of the truth.
I have far, far less issues with Orthodoxy than I do with Catholicism ;)
@@TheB1nary Hey I have far less issues with Catholicism than I do Protestant Christians.
This was perfect.
approx 2:29 -- Nope, Jesus didn't establish another PHYSICAL religious system -- *according to Peter, Jesus established an eternal SPIRITUAL house, comprised of "peters/rocks/stones" Believers that are indwelled by the Holy SPIRIT* (1Peter 2:5-7, 1Corinth 12:12-14). *And it is the Holy Spirit that indwells each true Believer that teaches the Believer the Truth of Scripture, not some man/church leadership* -- see 1John 2:27, Matthew 23:9, John 14:16-17, etc. *Church leadership is only to lead by their OWN example of strong Faith and correct Biblical conduct* -- see 1Peter 5:3 -- *"leadership" is NOT to act like "bosses/lords" over the people of GOD, telling us what we must believe and do* -- Matthew 20:25-26.
ALL PHYSICAL churches are corrupted by wolves in leadership teaching false doctrines -- and that started as soon as the Apostles were gone -- Acts 20:29-30, 2Peter 2:1-3, 1Timothy 4:1-5, etc.
And if you know anything about church history, you should know that by the 4th century, the church was totally corrupted by paganism -- the church started incorporating pagan beliefs/rituals/garb, etc -- and Orthodoxy was not exempt from this infiltration.
I always wonder if we protestants are blind in some areas? Iam new beliver, I agree that Holy Spirit teaches us in all truth :))
@@partlysimpson5154 Give me an example in a Biblical area that you believe "protestants" are blind.
@@veritasmuy2407 holy spirit will guide us, its more 4 sure. I just try humble myself and think if we have pride, blindness
@@partlysimpson5154 YOU: if we have pride, blindness
*ME: You mean like how Mary had pride* (John 2:1-5), *and therefore was blinded to the Truth that Jesus was the Son of GOD* (Luke 2:49-50) *that the Angel gave her in Luke 1:35* (2Corinth 4:4)
Amen, well tell me where I can read true Church history? I dont want to have debates here, its just get me fleshly. I dont want to run after flesh, but if u have great sources let me know:)
Looks amazingly like a guy that attended Reformed Theological Seminary when I did.
How did converts to the 'Orthodox' church get past the kissing of icons, & the deification of Mary? What did you have to do to accept these two things as normal?
I, as a lifetime Protestant have chosen a more traditional form of corporate worship, and now attend a local Orthodox Church. Protestant churches, who have always been good at fitting into cultures and the modern trends of society has now in many cases lost it’s way, stability and identity as a solid light in our communities.
Protestants are not in want because there were no ‘protestants’ before the 16th century any more than a Canadian has no proper citizenry because it is a young country and the canon of western civilization existed before its inception.
I want to be a part of a first century Church; they didn't use icons to pray through. Just simple worship and the Eucharist and fellowship and breaking bread together.
St Luke drew the first icons, so they have been part of the church since the apostles. And the church had a structure (bishops, priests, amd deacons...its in the New Resr
Tament) and a liturgy from the beginning as well. The first part of the liturgy was called the Synaxis, and was the Jewish synagogue service. The second was the Eucharest. Eventually they combined the 2 parts of the service.
It's in the New Testament*
Research about Dura Europos. One may think people in the first centuries were all literatr and all have a full bible under their arms, but that wasnt the case. Icons and imagen were used to depict and teach "biblical" passages, characters and moments.
Some people might cite the whole Theosis thing, and well that might be kind of weird, what I can certainly say no to as a protestant is the idea of salvation by Grace plus works, which both the Roman Catholic and Eastern orthodox churches preach. The Bible teaches that salvation is by Grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone on the authority of scripture alone to the glory of God alone (Ephesians chapter 1 through two, 2:1-10; Romans 3:19-28; second Timothy 3:15-17; Isaiah 49-50 John 3:16; Romans 11:6).
What is the outro chant ? thank you
I'd also like to know, in areas where there is no 'orthodox' church, like remote centers where the orthodox church is yet to be established, if someone accepts Christ as their Saviour through reading the Bible, is their faith and salvation a fallacy? Are they deceiving themselves if they believe they are truly saved from their sins?
I have been looking into the Orthodox faith, from Protestant in the past, and I learned the view I was taught and believed was wrong. Through biblical archeology, I was seeing early churches with iconography on the walls. I do not have the ego to push through when I see I'm wrong, so I accepted the truth. I do however have issues with calling Priests 'Father' because of Matthew 23:9, kissing pictures because that seems like worship to me, and praying to anyone but GOD. Maybe I'll have these issues explained to me, or I'll find it on my own.
Why protestant is bad? Aren't we part of Christ church as born again?
@@partlysimpson5154 Well, you can watch debates, like Jay Dyer vs Protestant and you'll see the problems.
@@Curveball i mean i talk jesus daily, i feel presence of holy spirit etc. Iam sure iam on right path
@@partlysimpson5154 Everyone thought they were on the right path until they found out what they were taught was wrong.
@@Curveball JESUS IS THE WAY, TRUTH AND THE LIFE! I rebuke you satan! You dont think with human reasoning, you get to know Jesus. Church DONT SAVE. Jesus does :) And if u speak against Jesus, it's up to you. I suggest to read Gospels of Jesus, so you see that the word is alive, bible word is alive. And ask Holy Spirit to help you to understand. God bless
Can I ask where to find the music you use after the interview please?
I have some recordings that my spiritual father gave me, he is the second voice you can hear, and the recordings are from his monastery on the Holy Mountain. The main voice you hear is Fr Panteleimon Kartsonas! But I have also found them on the internet: th-cam.com/video/LGe1BqRCs-U/w-d-xo.html
You can search for his name to find more. In greek: ΠΑΝΤΕΛΕΗΜΩΝ ΚΑΡΤΣΩΝΑΣ
In this video, you hear only two words "Theotoke Parthene ", which is the beginning of the Orthodox version of "Hail Mary..." . Here is the whole hymn: th-cam.com/video/DTtXyAfPVP0/w-d-xo.html
@@AccordingtoJohn Thank you very much! :)
I don't see how John 6 is looked at as referring to the Lord's supper. A plain reading of John 6 shows it is about faith in the Word of God. Not about the supper. I can see how people can confuse it but the wording of John 6 just isn't about the Lord's supper
It is about faith in the Logos, or Word, of God who is Christ. Yet is specifically about the Eucharist or Lord's Supper. At the beginning of the chapter the miracle of the feeding of the 5,000. The people literally ate bread that Christ caused to multiply. At the end of the chapter, Christ is still speaking to the same crowd.
In verses 26-27, Christ rebukes this crowd for wanting him to continue supplying their earthly needs and not their spiritual ones. He then tells them not to seek after perishable food, which they literally ate, but "food which endures to everlasting life."
The people counter that their ancestors ate manna (v. 31), which they did literally eat as they wandered in wilderness with Moses, and so ask for another sign. Christ then responds that he himself is the true bread of heaven and life (v. 32-33, 35, 48). He even insists that the people eat him and drink his blood to inherit life (v. 49-51), so much so that the the Jews questioned it (v. 52).
But instead of clarifying what he meant, as he had done with parables or speaking figuratively, Jesus continued to insist that his body and blood be consumed (v. 53-58). Even the verbs used for eating in these passages suggest that one chew or gnaw (lexiconcordance.com/greek/5315.html). And when some of his own followers declared they had a hard time accepting this, he doesn't correct them in saying, "I was speaking metaphorically or in a parable." Rather he challenges them that if they could not accept this, would they even accept the sign of his ascension?
And from ancient times was this understood that when Christ said, "This is my body" or "This is my blood" that he meant it quite literally as seen in the words of St. Justin the Martyr (AD 100-165), St. Ignatius of Antioch (AD c. 110; he even condemned those known as Docetics for denying that the Eucharist as Christ's body and blood by saying Christ himself was not really human), St John Chrysostom (AD 347-407; www.newadvent.org/fathers/240147.htm), and many others. The concept that the Lord's Supper is merely symbolic didn't really catch on until the time of such Reformers as John Calvin and Zwingli.
Blasphemy! Plain reading shows : EAT MY FLESH, DRINK MY BLOOD". As plain as it gets. There's no symbolism in that. Wake up!
@@시칼랴 So did Christ take a hunk of his flesh and lay it on the table? Since the reading is so plain and literal right?
@@kilemyers784 just before Passover. Love!
Right. John 13 is about the Last Supper.
My current Church has an 'altar' and bishop. But the bishop can be a woman (or transgender) :/ If you haven't guessed, I'm in the UK and at the moment, visit an Anglican Church. My wife and I have recently made contact with a local Orthodox Parish. Question: is there a chance that the Orthodox Church will go the same way (female bishops, priests etc)??? We need some stability!!!!
As long as it is part of a Canonical Jurisdiction it will be all Male Cerics.
I'm more than concerned about the Orthodox Church. Church is the people not a building.
This is true! The word Church refers originally to the faithful. When we say the Orthodox "Church" we are not speaking of the "Orthodox Building" but the faithful and everything that entails. In Greece, we don't say Church but "temple" to the building. However, in English people do call the building "Church" too so we need to be aware of language differences. But because you like using words in their original meaning, you should also be happy to say "deacon" "priest" "bishop" "church" liturgy" "synergy" "eucharist", calling the apostles "fathers" etc for these words are in the Holy Scriptures too.
Excerpt from “Romans: An Orthodox Commentary” by Fr. Patrick Henry Reardon
“The Church
Among the spiritual blessings conferred on the Apostle Paul in his experience of conversion, it is arguable that none was more significant than a strong and indelible sense of the union of Christ with his Church.
This union was expressed in the first words that Jesus spoke to him, the question, “Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me?” To this question the persecutor answered with another, “Who are you, sir?” To this the Lord responded by repeating the same accusation. “I am Jesus of Nazareth whom you are persecuting” (Acts 22.8)
Even in the blindness that accompanied this stunning revelation, Saul immediately perceived at least three truths. First, this Jesus of Nazareth, whom he had thought to be dead, was very much alive. Second, this same Jesus took very personally the “threats and murder” that Saul was breathing against his followers (Acts 9.1). Indeed, Jesus regarded that activity as directed against himself. “Why are you persecuting me?” he asked. Third, this revelation was a warning of divine mercy to Saul himself, a grace-filled call and opportunity to repent.
Such was Saul’s introduction to the mystery of the Church. Jesus of Nazareth showed him the infinite mercy of revealing to him, at his very conversion, the truth that would remain central to his mind for the rest of his life. “whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me” (Mt 25.40). Paul perceived immediately an intimate identity between Christ and His disciples. Beware, he learned; touch the Church, and you touch Jesus of Nazareth.
Paul’s next question was a very practical one. “What do you want me to do?” By way of response to this inquiry our Lord gave him not a single line of instruction beyond telling him to go and put himself under the authority of the Church. “Arise and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do” (Acts 9.6).
This answer of the Lord to Saul was significant in two ways. First, it strengthened the substance of the original revelation itself, affirming once again the union between Church and Christ. It asserted that the Church has the authority to speak for Christ. This answer repeated, in specific reference to this Saul of Tarsus, what Jesus had earlier declared to the Church. “He who hears you hears me” (Lk 10.16). This was the first lesson the soon-to-be apostle was to learn at depth-that he enjoyed no special, one-on-one access to Christ that did not involve the Church. Christ would give Saul no instruction beyond, “Go into Damascus and do exactly what the Church tells you to do.”
Second, in addition to conveying a truth important to all Christians, this answer of the Lord to Saul addressed the immediate context of his trip to Damascus. He was going there, after all, “so that if he found any who were of the Way, whether men or women, he might bring them bound to Jerusalem” (Acts 9.2). Now this same man must continue his journey into the city, “trembling and astonished” (9.6), blind and fasting (9.8-9), to submit the welfare of his soul to the very people he had come to arrest.
Such was the new apostle’s introduction to the Christian life. He did not find salvation and then look around for likeminded folks with whom to throw in his lot. The Church-the visible body of human believers in Damascus-was not optional. It was of the very substance of the revelation that Saul received. He did not start with a personal theology about salvation and proceed to search for some group that agreed with that theology. No, the revelation of the risen Christ was also a revelation of the Church. In Paul’s experience, there was no separation between these two realities.
The rest of Paul’s ecclesiology over the years was a development of this perception. First, it was at Damascus that the Church told him exactly how to get rid of his sins. “Arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord” (22.16). For Paul, forgiveness of sins was not something distinguishable from being baptized into the Church.
That is to say, Paul learned that “by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body” (1 Cor 12.13). Through this sacramental experience he came to know that there is “one body and one Spirit . . . one Lord, one faith, one baptism” (Eph 4.4-5). Then, sharing in the Lord’s Supper, Paul learned the mystic source of the Church’s union with Christ, discerning that “we many are one bread, one body, for we all partake of that one bread” (1 Cor 10.17). The Church was Christ’s own body because she partook of that body through the celebration of the eucharistic mystery.
In short, Paul’s experience of grace in his conversion included the meaning of the Church, the union of those joined to Christ and to one another in the living, specific, and defined institution with which Christ so completely identified himself.”
Tammy I recommend listening to this lecture by Jews for Jesus Co-Founder and now orthodox priest:
th-cam.com/video/sxAzBOrtaRY/w-d-xo.html
@@saenzperspectives I don't undetstand why you posted all of that. It didn't corralate to anything I said. The link doesn't correspond either. Please ask questions first. I think you've just posted something for the sake of it which is a shame.
@@saenzperspectives ps There is no eucharist mystery. The bible says we will do it in heaven at the end. We break bread in rememberance. We do it at home every day as they did in the beginning. I'm concerned how close to the roman catholics the orthodox Church is. Idols and graven images prayers to the dead, chanting like Buddhists. etc. However my concerns are irrelevant people will do what they will what I guess I can't seem get close to the orthodox Church. '
For those who game, "the cake is a lie" is a reference to the video game, Portal. It means the anticipated reward is never going to be yours and you were lied to to play a game. Over the past two days, it has become even more obvious that there are conspiracies in our country and church. Technology has made them possible because algorithms can see from our browsing what we look at and are most interested in. Recruitment happens, then different levels and groups within the scheme police each other and those below. It works because they're being lied to about what the eventual outcome is going to be. The only way to avoid them is to not lie. And even then, if one stumbles upon aspects of the controversy, gaslighting and blackmail threats are used to keep one silent. But the lower levels are being used. :( The only way out of the mess is truth, which is painful, but at least a person is free. As to covenants, any contract entered into then altered is subject to being voided for duress if the changed conditions are ones you only agreed to because of threats. The only way to "win" this game is refuse to play.
11:14, a good question!
I amazingly can’t find any reason to disagree with any of the teachings of orthodoxy but being from baptist makes the saint veneration feel wrong even though I do fully understand and agree with the practice 😅 idk what that’s about.
Matthew 23:8-12
And call no man your father on the earth: for one is your Father, even he who is in heaven. Neither be ye called masters: for one is your master, even the Christ. But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant.
Hello
I think the problem is putting “tradition” on the same level as scripture
What Catholics seem to do is say they can trace their authority back to Peter, and since they think they are a succession of that authority, then what is taught from that seat of authority is truth
The problem is that’s the same thing the Pharisees did
They sat on the seat of Moses
They were supposed to be successors of Moses so their tradition would be true
But what did Jesus say about their tradition??
And why did he say it was wrong and how did he conclude it?
Compared it to scripture
If you teach tradition on the same authority level as scripture and it’s not founded in scripture and contradicts it then it’s wrong
So saying “we are successors of Peter” doesn’t make your tradition true, let alone the same level as scripture
Because it’s the same thing the Pharisees did
“We are successors of Moses therefore our tradition is true and authoritative”
Now insert Peter for Moses and that’s basically the Catholic argument
I don’t think it works
Why do you think protestants should become Orthodox?
For me i realized that unless i took everything that the church fathers said in agreement as gospel then i was possibly on the road to making my own man made version of Christianity. For instance God could be the universe or Jesus might just have been a man or just an angel or maybe we might still need to keep the Sabbath maybe same sex marriage is ok any one of those doctrines could be acceptable it was totally up to what i wanted to pick and choose.
Once i realized that was what i was doing as a protestant it became very difficult for me to remain one.
@@ThruTheUnknown That's a very good point, I totally agree with you! Thank you for sharing that
@@ThruTheUnknown Yeah it seems like idolatory. Ironically one element of Orthodox worship that I have an instinctive nervousness of based on protestant background is the iconography and the petitions to saints. I think intellectually I am fairly convinced but still a bit nervous in case it's idolatrous. But it does seem like protestantism is an idolatrous road, maybe not to the same degree as pagan idolatry etc but it's a risk of self-authority.
@@colmwhateveryoulike3240
Yeah it does seem at face value idolatrous but a couple of things helped me there
1) Getting an orthodox prayer Book in terms of supplication to Mary and the saints it really helped me understand the orthodox view from that
2) Looking into the liturgy of Basil and Chrysostom as well
3) attending orthodox service where i found they venerated the bible as well.
There's a lot more to support it than just that (bible verses, jewish evidence of doing the same and a few other points as well). But that's the short version of it anyway
@@ThruTheUnknown I am very inclined to agree. I will follow up on your recommendations to help bring me past my caution. Thank you. God bless.
Im having issues getting my wife to accept Holy Orthodoxy. Shebis steeped in Baptist, now Pentecostal theology. I tried the historicak explanation but she doesn't want to hear it. Any advice?
Thank you for this question. It's hard because we are dealing with free humans and not robots and we always need to remember that people come only to Christ freely. Remember that the almighty God that wants more than any of us to save all humans, is "unable" because we have free will. Saint Sofroney calls this "the risk of creation". What then shall we make of your or mine effort? Well, we need to recognize that whatever we do, we do it of love and we do it talking to humans given the gift of free will.
I asked my wife that converted some years ago and she told me that one needs to learn to love the Church and therefore arguments are not always the best way to go. For her, reading the saints as saint Porfyrios' book "wounded by love" helped her a lot because she saw the love of God, genuine love, and holiness.
Be a good example. Love her. Pray for your wife "Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, enlighten your servant (say your wife's name)" with prayer rope. When you pray your evening prayers, tell her that she is welcomed to join. Give her time, accept that she must come freely. Invite her to come to Church with you, don't argue with her on the way. Welcome any questions she has.
My wife didn't convert due to any argument but when there was a little opening of the heart, Christ rushed to enter that heart. She was "wounded" by the love of Christ. Don't misunderstand me. Teaching is an important part of it. But we need to have discretion when to speak and when to not speak. If she says she doesn't want to hear it, it can do great harm if you push to mutch. Sadly I had to learn this the hard way. When I was younger, I pushed a person to mutch, and instead of taking this person closer to God, I took away the little faith this person had. I am accountable to God for this.
I gave you some advice from my experience. I hope something of what was said can be helpful. Forgive me and pray for me.
I don't think I could of said it better than John. I agree with him. I've also pushed my wife too hard in the past and learned a devastating blow to our marriage. God be praised for His restoration and grace through it all. God knows your situation, He is very aware of your struggles. Have patience and pray continually about it seeking the face of God and being Christlike toward your wife purifying her by the washing of the word and by Christ example in you the hope of glory.
Thank you guys. Please pray for us and our eventual coming home.
That wife use to be me. Would not verbally push the issue. Let her see your Orthothox life. Confess frequently, focus on your prayer corner, repent in tears. Plead to the Holy Mother of God and to Saint Monica.
Pray to St. Silouan of Mt. Athos for her conversion. It worked for my son and his wife.
Full stop, you cannot re-baptize a baptized believer in Jesus. That is PEAK arrogance…. And it is currently my number one dispute with Orthodox leaders. When he says he has baptized X amount of Protestants, I am naseauted to the core by his total disregard for what Christ had already done in their lives simply to lift up his own version of the church, even if it is the correct original church. Can you imagine a biblical scene where someone humbly went into the water with a believer and professed Christ as Lord and then an apostle walked up and said “actually you need to become a catechumen for three years under me and then I WILL baptize you”.
The difference is that in Jesus day and during the time of the apostles, there was only ONE church. Now there are 40k denominations, so time has to be taken to teach new inquirers so that they understand what our beliefs are and be sure they agree with these beliefs. It's a pastoral concern.
approx 5:27 -- Nope, the Original Church did NOT teach that "this fruit of the vine" was magically turned into Jesus' ACTUAL sacrificed blood -- *that false doctrine is calling Jesus a SINNER according to Jesus himself in Matthew 5:19-20 and Leviticus 17:10-11.* If Jesus was telling the Jews to disobey God's command in Leviticus 17:10-11 -- *to NEVER drink the blood of the sin sacrifice, because the sacrificed blood was ONLY to go ON THE ALTAR for the forgiveness of sins* -- then Jesus was a SINNER/least in the Kingdom of God.
There is no drinking of sacrificed blood in the OT or NT (Acts 15:20)
Jesus told Christians to pray for God's Kingdom to come and for His will to be done on earth as it is in heaven. God's Kingdom is a heavenly government ruled by Jesus Christ as King. Soon Jesus as King of kings will bring beautiful changes to the earth. There will be no more death, pain or sorrow on earth, Revelation 21:4,5. No more wickedness on earth, Psalms 37:9-11; Psalms 145:20. The righteous hearted meek ones will inherit the earth and live forever on a cleansed earth, Psalms 37:29; Matthew 5:5; Proverbs 2:21,22. The earth will be cultivated into a Paradise like God intended in the beginning, Genesis 1:28; Isaiah 55:11. Jesus will do on a grand scale what he did when he walked the earth including raising those who are asleep in death, John 5:28,29. There will only be one government over the entire earth, God's Kingdom government, Daniel 2:44. In order to receive everlasting life and the blessings that God has promised, we must worship the Father with spirit and truth, John 4:22-24; John 17;3; Isaiah 42:8. Soon Jesus as King of kings will make sure that God's Will is done on earth as it is in heaven. Do you believe God's promises concerning the earth? Isaiah 55:11. Is this what you have been taught? May your Kingdom come Father, and your glorious will be done on earth as it is in heaven, Matthew 6:10! Hallelujah!
Thanks for all that. What are you trying to say though?
I am happily a Protestant but I find the Orthodox Church interesting. I think we are much closer to each other than either of us are to Catholics. I do think that reliance on the church fathers is the biggest fault I see in the Orthodox Church. St. Agustine was a truly brilliant man of God but his writing cannot be equated with Scripture. Protestants use the witness of Scripture to interpret Scripture which makes false interpretation essentially impossible. Many false Christians make Protestants seem unorganized but there is more agreement than disagreement among true believers.
Hi! Thank you for your comment. The Orthodox does not put the writings of a single Father above the Scriptures. The method of letting Scripture interpret Scripture is used by the Orthodox as well. However, your statement "Protestants use the witness of Scripture to interpret Scripture which makes false interpretation essentially impossible." is not right. Not only is there disagreement between sola-scriptura advocates on what the Bible teaches, but it was also always the heretics like Arians that went to the Bible without any regard to the broader Tradition of the Church, the canon of faith, which functions as the interpretative frame for understanding the Bible. The tradition is not so much an outer authority we go to but the catholic faith, the fullness of the Church experience being presented at every moment at every time. It is the continuous voice of the Spirit that makes the work of Christ present at every time. The consensus of the Fathers reflects exactly this. We cant then put the Bible in opposition to the consensus of the Fathers for the consensus is the very thing you talked about, the right interpretation. Remember that the Bible is not the words in themselves but rightly interpreted and that is why we need to look for the "mind" of the Scriptures. The same Holy Spirit that gave us the Bible is the same Holy Spirit that has kept the right interpretation throughout the ages. We Orthodox, when we appeal to the broader Tradition then, the canon of faith, the canon of truth, we appeal to the unbroken voice of the Spirit which is verified in the lives and teachings of the saints.
@@AccordingtoJohn I think there is much less disagreement among Protestants than the Catholics and the Orthodox like to claim. I would argue that the disagreements between different Protestant denominations are no more diverse than the disagreements between all of the church fathers. It doesn't take much study to reveal the fathers contradicted each other in dramatic ways and often contradicted themselves. Many fathers did not have the full Scriptures and many of them had ideas contradictory to the whole Bible. Scripture always outweighs their writings and all of them would probably agree with that.
@@Kase5883 you aren't getting what he said and listed no actual examples. very inaccurate
There are many splinters of Protestantism, and Calvinism/reformed theology is not based.
@@kingattila506 Orthodox is just as fallible as any other denomination.
Orthodox church and Romam Catholic church traditions added the kissing of icons, and many things not seen in scripture, Protestants simply leave those things out that where not there to begin with..
approx 2:36 -- Nope. *Protestantism started in the 4th century when the Roman church PROTESTED and SEPARATED from the Original Catholic Church headquartered in Greece.* The Roman church was the first Protesting church -- that is why she's called the Mother Harlot Church -- and all the little protesting/harlot churches came out of her -- see the Roman Church described in Revelation 17:4-6.
In the 1500's a Roman Catholic named Luther decided to start the RETURN to following the writings of the Apostles/Original Church -- which was rejected by the Roman Vatican because they wanted to cling to their false added traditions instead of strictly following the words of GOD -- the same sin as the Pharisees (Matthew 15:1-9).
One thing that has me hesitating is this ---> A Greek Orthodox gentleman told me, while pointing to the Epitaphios, that Jesus Christ did not die to pay the price for my sins nor to be our Savior, but to serve as an "example" of how to live. REALLY? Does the Orthodox church not believe in substitutionary atonement?
1. No, Christ did not come to be just a "good man".
2. Here is an article on substitutionary atonement. I have not read it but I trust it will be ok. blogs.ancientfaith.com/orthodoxbridge/orthodox-christians-on-penal-substitutionary-atonement/
I don't know if most Greek Orthodox people have that sort of belief or not. What you mentioned here above is called cultural Christian, Christian atheist or even progressive Christian. These cultural Christians don't even believe in God or that Jesus is the son of God. The issue with the Orthodox church is that the average person doesn't know much about them and what they actually teach.
Catholic and Protestant Christians have been out spreading the Gospel everywhere in the world so you can't blame people for becoming a Catholic or Protest Christian while some people has never heard of the Orthodox church.
Don't ask unknowledgeable people about God. Ask the church fathers.
The predominant view of the early church as I understand it was the Christus Victor view of the atonement.
Penal Substitution has a lot of severe theological problems regarding the Deity of Christ and the Trinity.
Bojan, Bible Illustrated, from Serbia, has two great short podcasts. Very revealing! Imho.
Love!
There exist immense depths to Orthodoxy. So there do exist to other denominations, that is correct. :)
Depth comes from relationship with God/Holyspirit :) That is for sure
All Christians should have the same standard. The sandard and final authority is the word of God.
“All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting, and training in righteousness, so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work” (2 Timothy 3:16-17).
"These things I write to you, though I hope to come to you shortly; but if I am delayed, I write so that you may know how you ought to conduct yourself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.
(I Timothy 3:14-15).
Etc, etc.
8:45, I'm sorry brother, Historic Orthodoxy never had altars for worship, that became a denominational tradition, none of the apostles and saints prior to the death St.John practiced that!
Hebrews 13, 10: We have an altar.
Next question, please.
"Make certain , therefore, that you all observe one common Eucharist, for there is but one body of our Lord Jesus Christ, and but one cup of Union with His Blood, and one single altar of sacrifice, even as there is but one Bishop, with his clergy and my fellow servitors, the deacons. this will ensure that all your doings are in full accord with the will of God."
St. Ignatius of Antioch, Letter to the Philadelphians, chap. 4 107 AD
St. John died in AD 100 (aged 93-94) place unknown, probably Ephesus, Roman Empire.
6 or 7 years aren't that much of a gap :) especially that St Ignatius was martyred in 108 AD, you could tell they had an altar even prior to 107 AD.
Fr. Josiah made no mistake, as he only said, 'in the 1st eleven hundred years of the church', 8:47
ie, when the church was first established. St Ignatius wouldn't have spoken so firmly of an altar, Body & Blood, if it wasn't a commonality or sth they'd been familiar with even prior to St John's death since they were all originally Jewish (along with our Messiah Himself), brother. :)
Jesus of Nazareth did not found an ecclesiastical bureaucracy. The “one true Church” is that collection of scattered believers throughout the world in every tribe and nation and amongst all the ecclesiastical boundaries that have a true living faith in the gospel.
So... all of those letters of St. Paul were to "scattered believers".? With all due respect but you are completely ignorant about the history of the Church.
Which believers though? The correct belief is important, are those who believe jesus is only a prophet considered a believer? Or those who deny the humanity of christ, apollinarianism?
Or Those who deny the divinity of christ? Gnostics? , arians? Or those that belive in god but not christ at all? Who are these scattered believers and how is it decided who is legitimate and who isnt? Who is a believer and who isnt? Who is in the church and who isnt?....the invisible church idea is actually very gnostic, it tends towards the denial of the humanity of christ, the immanent nature of god and the historical reality of the church, the church is trancendant and immanent just as god is, beyond the world and in the world
Jesus Christ gave Paul the New Testament. Paul was a contemporary of Christ. The new testament is part of the new testament. When Jesus save you from your sins by going to the cross and shedding his precious blood.
The most powerful prayer for my catholic church in this time to fight the power of darkness. Say it every day.Most precious blood of Jesus Christ.
Save us and the whole world. 10x in a row
In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.Amen
Eternal Father you are the only immortal God who is Love, Merciful and Kind.Look at Your only begotten Son, Jesus Christ and have mercy.I offer you the pains of his scourging at the pillar;His wounds and blood for all your people who are living under the weight of the curse due to the sins of their ancestors,and their disobedience for breaking the covenant they made with you.May You set us free through the scourging of Your Son;Heal us through his wounds and save us through His Precious Blood.Amen !
Message of Jesus:
Yes,My name be praised.My Father,I and My Spirit have done the Mighty work.All will come and bow down before My Presence before the Blessed Sacrament.Let all people know,this is My desire,that all come before Me,to My throne of Grace,My Presence is truly there.It's for all to come to adore and pay homage to their King,Lord and Saviour,the Mighty One is in their presence.They have to adore and worship.This is My command to you.You must tell people,My children,that their heavenly, eternal Father desires that not many of My children are coming before Me,to seek my face.They have turned away, their hearts are turned away from me.I am waiting,I am always for them to come towards Me but they will not come.You need to give this message to them;that I am waiting for them at the Blessed Sacrament. I want to give out blessings, blessings for them and to hear their needs.They will feel My power, when they pour their hearts out to Me;for as long as you seeks Me,I will be there for you.My power can work mighty in a person,who seeks Me,I will be there for you.My power can work mighty in a person,who seeks Me and longs for Me.
"Ordinary catholic families cannot survive.They must be extraordinary catholic families. They must be what I do not hesitate to call 'heroic' catholic families.Ordinary catholic families are no match for the devil as he uses media of communication to secularize and desacralize modern society.No less than ordinary individual catholics can survive,so ordinary catholic families cannot survive.They have no choice. They must either be holy- which means sanctified - or they will disappeared". Fr John Hardon S.J
Many Catholics easily stray away from the faith that they received. What are the reasons for their falling into complacency, becoming indifferent and even hostile towards Christ and the Christian Faith?
The fault with many Catholics is that they think baptism is a graduation from having acquired knowledge and understanding of their faith. After completing their catechism classes or RCIA journey, they no longer seek out opportunities to continue growing their faith, both doctrinally and spiritually. Their only occasion to grow in faith is the one-hour Mass that they attend every Sunday. This is hardly enough to sustain the life of a Catholic. Those who do not grow in their faith are already losing their faith. There is no neutrality.
How, then, can we grow in our faith? Firstly, we need to deepen our intimacy with God through Christ. In Christ, we come to know and love the Father. Secondly, we must be rooted in the Word of God. We cannot grow in our faith without deepening our love and appreciation for the Word of God through bible study and most of all, a prayerful reading and sharing of the Word of God.
Thirdly, we must seek the support of the Christian community. A Catholic without the support of his fellow Catholics will eventually fall out from the faith, especially when he undergoes the trials and challenges of life, the influence of secularism, and the materialistic, individualistic and atheistic views of the world. Fourthly, to grow our faith, we need to evangelise and be a witness to Christ. We evangelise ourselves by evangelising others. By sharing our faith with others, we strengthen our own faith. By teaching our faith to others, we grow in understanding and clarity in what we believe in.
Finally, growing in faith is to grow in our Christian life. This is the most effective form of witnessing. It means that those of us who are baptised must live a life of holiness and purity, free from sin and a bad conscience. A life of holiness and charity are the fruits of a strong spiritual life and a life of hope founded in the promises of God.
If the Catholic Church is accused of being satanic, that is no more than its Founder, Jesus Christ, was accused of. When our Lord was on earth, he had the same problem. He was driving demons out, and some said he was doing this by the power of the devil. How did Jesus respond? He said, “How can Satan drive out Satan? If a kingdom is divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand. And if a house is divided against itself, that house will not be able to stand. And if Satan has risen up against himself and is divided, he cannot stand; that is the end of him” (Mk 3:23-26).
The Catholic Church drives out the devil, too. This practice is called exorcism. No one can deny that the Catholic Church has been doing exorcisms on people and driving out Satan for nearly two millennia. Therefore, we must reason like Jesus: If the Catholic Church were from the devil, it could not drive the devil out.
We shouldn’t be surprised when such charges are made against the Catholic Church. Jesus told us, “A disciple is not above his teacher, nor a servant above his master; it is enough for the disciple to be like his teacher and the servant like his master. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebul, how much more will they malign those of his household” (Mt 10:24-25).
Weak Catholics become protestants
Strong Protestants become Catholics,
The opening statemnet could have been said by a Roman Catholic, I considered the Eastern Orthodox church but have since rejected it completely. Banging on about the 15th and 16th century is just pharisiac nonsense, Protestants are small c catholics and come from and refer to the same tradition, but this guy talks like protesants invented themselves independantly. It is enough for Orthodox christians to distinuish themselves as the oldest continueing iteration of the church.. Fine. But the claim 'we are the only church' = Christs golden boys basically, which is opposed to %90 of christendom and is the kind of claim i would expect from cults like Jehovah's witnesses. So cockadoodledoo "father"
Christ hates false doctrines.... read your Bible and pay attention to that specific detail. Orthodox Church maintains original Faith as Lord delivered it to the ancient Church. Those with the false doctrines have fallen from the Church and gates of Hades prevailed over them. Lord had said that His Church will be pillar and ground of the truth (Matthew 16, 18). So.. if false doctrines are believed in various religious groups, how can they be The Church.?
@@johnnyd2383 The church is not there its over here? No. that is not up to you. Christ is head of the church and the kingdom that is 'not of this world' is not confined to the Orthodox church or any one institution. By the way how is your Schism with the Russians going? See what I mean?
@@Nonreligeousthiestic Your view of the Church can not pass the test of history. It did not exist prior to 16th century and it is invention of those who realized that there is not salvation w/o the Church, yet they did not want to submit to the authority of the EOC (google for phrase "luther had his chance"). They have found false resolution of the problem in an "invisible church"... novelty never heard of before. BTW: You do not have Orthodox Phronema and thus you are unable to understand the way Orthodoxy operates.
This comment has not convinced me at all! I have always seen the reformers as true prophets who, just as in ancient Israel, arose to denounce the deviations of the People. In the same way the Protestant reformers did in relation to the Catholic Church, so the Protestant reformation does not return to patristic, it is not a return to the ancient saints of the church as well... it is a return to pure and genuine Apostolic Faith. Unfortunately, even within Protestantism there were also deviations and sectarianism, however this is nowhere near enough to take away the beauty of the Restoration that Christ promoted in his church. Well, thank you so much for this video, I continue being even more presbyterian than ever after watching all this. Thanks a lot!
Joseph Smith and his believers believe the same thing. You buddy are the not the judge of ecumenical Counsels. To make yourself the judge of ecumenical councils is to call yourself the Pope of your own faith. Very simply put protestants within the last 50 years don't even believe the Same thing protestants believed 100 or two hundred years ago if the faith is always changing your always believing something completely different each decade/century or so. How can you ever trust the so called truth when the faith/doctrine is always changing?
It a easy to any john today to prostest and form a New Church becuase he feels he knoows better. Doesn. T mean he has anything to say
I would agree with you to a degree and disagree with you in other aspects.
I agree that the GOAL of the Reformation was to denounce a church going astray and to repent and get back on track. (at least what the west thought was the Church). So at least the intention was obviously a good intention and i don't think anybody would debate that.
Where I disagree is the perceived success of Protestantism. Even as a protestant at the time, i was no fool. I knew very well that the philosophy was a failure. I only read my bible and prayed to God to have mercy on me because I did the best that I could with all the research that i would do on the side to better understand.
The point of patristic is to SEE the continuity with the apostles. That was the complaint and still is the complaint of Orthodox towards Rome. They abandoned the partristic theology and replaced it with scholastic. THAT is why Rome fell into so many innvoations. That is why thousands of sects fall into innovations. Rome since the schism has changed. Protestantism has changed. Orthodoxy hasn't changed. Because it's patristic. Patristic as in the fathers refusing to believe what the apostles did not pass down. That's the nature of being patristic. Orthodoxy never budged. All you said, you can say to Rome because it's always beens Rome's problem.
I'm not telling you that you should regain your heritage and be Orthodox. It's up to you. But at least KNOW what Orthodox mean
@@evangelus3289 very well said!
I am a former Protestant, have been an Orthodox apologist for 8 years, but in the last 2 years, I have found that Orthodoxy has lost what it is so proud of. I would not advise Protestants to convert to Orthodoxy.
Why not? Orthodoxy is the original Church 2000 years old
@@voievod9260 Those fairy tales have long been answered
@@tradertrader8838 which fairy tales ? You sound like an atheist
Why does the orthodox church claimed that Steven was the first Christian martyr. He wasn’t he was a hell of mystic Jew he was not a Christian
Orthodoxy is the only true Christian faith.
You can carry on hating Catholics like me.
No one of us hates catholics! I hope this is not the impression you get from theological disagreement.
@@AccordingtoJohn Protestants believe that the King of England can be a Freemason of the Thirty Third Degree, but not a Roman Catholic. If you want to recruit among these people, it's up to you.
@@davidporthouse2717
You can't be a Freemason and An Orthodox Christian. One would have to repent of that.
The video has a sad and delusional message! The Church of Jesus Christ is who we are as Christians; it is not where we meet, headed up by a group of self-appointed and overdressed authorities. Seek Jesus Christ, our true mediator, and not an institution that presents itself as a mediator to our true mediator. Truth is found in Jesus Christ and God's recorded Holy Word, the Bible; it's not found in the Roman Catholic or Orthodox Catholic Churches, which have added numerous doctrines and false teachings to earn salvation while disguised in a veneer of religious rituals and eternal piety, something Jesus Christ and the apostles rejected, much less never endorsed or promoted. To earn your salvation through works is to separate yourself from Jesus Christ and His true Church, which the Catholic Churches have done with their false teaching of works salvation. Jesus is not accessed through a Catholic religious system, be it Romanist or Orthodox. Jesus Christ is accessible through the conversion, baptism, and work of the Holy Spirit (not to be confused with Catholic water baptism). The gift of God is salvation and reconciliation between God and man, which comes by God's grace alone, through faith alone, in Jesus Christ alone.
Blessings †
First Bishops of the ancient Church were those 70 disciples Lord chose Himself. They ordained next generation of Bishops and so on... that is what is called Apostolic Succession. In the Orthodox Church such lineage of ordinations is maintained and every contemporary Bishop has roots back in original generation of disciples Christ chose.
Luther was a rebel element
not unlike General Zod or maybe even Vader.
they should’nt
No reason to consider the Orthodox Church.
... if you want to ignore your own salvation. Noone outside of the Noah's ark survived.
@@johnnyd2383 The Orthodox Church is an organization of men, regardless of what claims are made for it. The ark is the Church that Christ heads and the Church roll is kept in heaven, not in a diocese office.
@@Richard-e5m ... so those outside of the Ark in the times of Noah kept looking up into the heavens as rain poured down, instead in Noah's Ark ignoring their salvation. But, it takes a humble mind to submit to the authority of The Church. Not an easy feat to leave throne of Pope every Protestant occupies.
@@johnnyd2383 You have still not given me anything that says the Eastern orthodox Church is "the ark." I certainly don't sit on any papal throne. The only one who has the right to sit on the throne of the Kingdom is Jesus Christ, and the eastern Orthodox Church does not control the gate. The Holy Spirit controls it.
@@Richard-e5m Here are some hints for you to consider...
1. Lord promised perpetuity of His Church.
2. There are only three groups that historically have roots in ancient Church: EOC, RCC and Orientals.
3. Orientals fell to Monophysite heresy back in 5th century.
4. RCC fell to many heresies (no need to name them).
5. EOC maintains original Faith as received at the Pentecost thus maintaining Apostolic Succession.
6. Mark 16, 16 spells put the requirements for salvation.
7. By unpacking requirements we can find that there is no Baptism outside of The Arc (remember Simon who wanted to buy the Gift).
This should suffice for now. Let me know if any of these is not clear enough. Cheers.!
Ignorance of history kept me in Protestantism. I for sure am not Protestant.
LAME
Christianity is dead but Christ is alive. It is not possible to be a Christian in the original sense anymore. If this is what Christianity really is, I'm not interested in the least, not one single bit. However, if Christianity is God reaching out to a condemned world, a God who once killed all but eight and a God who wishes not to kill but to save and to elevate and glorify man, then I am in. But I have no interest in this or in Jehovah Witnesses. I cannot stand the thought of being this bored for all of eternity. No thanks.
These were some really bad arguments.
Hindu trinity Bhrahma Vishnu Shiva
Christian trinity Father son holy spirit
All pagan religions have trinity as part of their belief and traditions.
Christianity seems to be more close to hinduism than Judaism and Islam.
Ex Christian and Muslim Alhamdulillah ☝
Orthodoxy is the Way.