Francis Chan - "What should I do next?" Father Josiah Trenham, an Orthodox priest, gives the answer.
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ต.ค. 2020
- Have you heard about Francis Chan's recent comments on the Eucharist and the ancient Church? Father Josiah, an Eastern Orthodox priest, answers Francis Chan's question "What would be your advice for me, in taking this next step?" from a recent discussion Francis Chan had with the Bible Answer Man (Hank Hanegraaff) and Metropolitan Yohan (not Eastern Orthodox). In my interview with Fr. Josiah Trenham, founder and director of Patristic Nectar Publications, I asked him about Francis Chan's question and the response he would give to him.
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My interview with Father Josiah Trenham: • #6 Fr. Josiah Trenham ...
The discussion with Francis Chan: • Heretics! What Divides...
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Been loving these interactions with Hank, Francis and KP. Interesting comments ty. On the one hand I agree there should be a line of consistency, a foundation we all agree on, creeds being one indicator, but Jesus also said when He left wolves would come in and not spare the flock correct?
@@dominicks1975 Hi! Thank you for this question. I think He warned us of wolves, not that the Body of Christ would become a wolf. And for sure, there have been many heresies through the ages.
Pastor Chan is articulating *the* exact questions I had before I became an Orthodox Christian. I was raised Protestant by two godly parents who instilled in me a love of God and the Holy Scriptures, and I am so thankful for that. I used to speak badly about my Protestant upbringing, until my priest called me out on it. He quietly reminded me that I'd learnt many, many good things from being raised in the Reformed tradition, and instead of scorning it, I needed to be thankful for having the Christian parents I had who made sure I loved God and the Holy Scriptures. When he put it like that, it cut me deep. I realized that my Protestant upbringing was a necessary step of preparation for me on my spiritual journey, and now I thank God for it.
Yes, you should be thankful you had a Christian upbringing 🙂 I was born and raised atheist, converted at 28, becoming orthodox now.... the basic moral and social benefits of a childhood of Christianity shouldn’t be downplayed. I wish I’d been raised in even a moderate Christian home, I probably would have a much better outcome all around. Sure people think it sucks and you’re brainwashed and society sucks in general, but given a choice between atheism and Christianity in childhood, I’d gladly have been raised Christian *even if* i rebelled and left the faith as an adult.
Absolutely Christa don't ever be scornful or embarrassed of your parents and the Protestants they raised you to love Jesus Christ and that is the most important part. And that is the version of Christianity they knew and understood and I'm sure as good and loving people they saw that was the way to life rather than a worldly life.
Thank sharing this because Orthodoxy reinforces that Scripture foundation. Unfortunately I'm not Orthodox. I do love going into the Orthodox Monastery Paleokastritsa in Corfu. I desire to be return there again and also St Spiridon's Church.
May God grant me his blessing on my intentions.
@@Val.Kyrie. How did you go from atheist to Christian? Was there an ah ha moment?
Christy, thank you for your honesty. It really touched me, in that, it were moments in your life that you were wrong and is now today hurtful to think about today I’m sure, but still you were kind to share with others in hopes of helping others. A true heart and soul from a follower of Christ.
He sounds like me 6 months before I converted to Orthodoxy. Glory be to God on high.
Godbless
Same. Except I became Catholic
Pray for him. He’s a good man
@@jmjaquinas7298 Yikes
Same here brother. After a 6 year hiatus from attending Roman Catholic mass I got sucked into evangelicalism, it quickly drove me to where he is now. At the moment I’m a catechumen navigating the COVID nonsense. May God guide him and everyone else in these evil times.
God bless! I'm on a similar journey, but my big stumbling block is EO and RC view of Mary. I need help on this! I understand what EO and RC "believe" about Mary, but my issue is WHY should we believe these things about her. How does one overcome this obstacle? From what I can see, mariology really developed after constantine, and it seems to have been an evolution of hero worship.
I'm Lutheran and have been exploring Orthodoxy for about a year. One of the most amazing things I'm encountering is there are so many people....just like me.
I don't understand how saints hear prayers. The communion of saints doesn't answer the question of how saints can be omnipresent enough to hear prayers....unless it's God himself who shows/tells them of the prayer.
Are you still in the Lutheran Church?
@@prayunceasingly2029The saints hear prayers by the grace of God.
@@prayunceasingly2029 yes God gives them the ability to hear us.
@@olubunmiolumuyiwa thank you
Many prayers for me if you’re reading this. I have been praying for a while that the Lord would show me the true Church, and I believe He is leading me to Holy Orthodoxy.
I will pray for you Simeon. "In peace, let us pray to the Lord"
The good news is the True Church, if you are a true believer, is YOU. Or rather, is us. The church is not just an institution or building. It is the community, the brotherhood and sisterhood of believers, connected by Christ, One in the Holy Spirit. You don’t have to look for the “right” building. Instead, look to be transformed by Christ.
@@lukericker8325 Nobody is speaking of buildings.
@@AccordingtoJohn Institutions, buildings, same thing. It’s wrong to pretend one of the denominations or sects is the “one true church”.
@@lukericker8325 Well, you can believe that, but it is not biblical and contradicts the symbol of faith and common sense.
I feel for you brother Francis. I too felt like my 30’s I had all the answers. I converted to orthodoxy in my 50’s. “His mercy endures forever.”
Lol ! Parallel life? I converted to orthodoxy in July and in my 50s from Protestantism AND my name is Cheryl ☺️
@@forevermore6065 ❤️awesome. Congrats Cheryl (with a C)
@@Orthodixi thanks ! just sad took that long to find out how ignorant of history I was but all in Gods time. How wonderful it is to be on this magnificent path now!
@@forevermore6065 me, too. I wish I was taught church history years ago. But, I may not have been ready for it back then.
Not really a conversion its just like upgrading house in the same neighborhood.
So proud of Pastor Chan for his honesty.
I became an orthodox Christian about five years ago... the best thing to happen in my life... I wanted the ancient faith and worship and a bigger God.
God bless you
A bigger God? God is never changing hun lol
The writing of the saints will show lot more of God's greatness. Read the life of the saints. Indeed you will see Him bigger.
WE NEED MORE ON THE HARVEST ;th-cam.com/video/qX_fryE0jKA/w-d-xo.html
@mysterychemistry nope allah is the name of god as per Islam just as yhwh in Judaism. In fact the peshitto bible written in Aramaic uses the term Alaha, very similar to Allah. It means the Lord Almighty just as Lord in English bible translations.
I am so ecstatic upon seeing this.... Francis Chan's passion for Christ was instrumental in my journey towards Christ. And though such a key character in my faith was non-denominational protestant, I was actually baptized into the Orthodox faith.
That Mr. Chan is even considering as such fills my heart. Just imagine how many he will take with him to the Orthodox faith bringing so many souls to be in communion with Christ in a very special way.
Hallelujah, praise God 🙏
I’m a Protestant on my way home but I don’t know whether to go East or West. Please pray for me. I’ve been praying Eastern prayers faithfully on the hours for a year while being in Protestant Churches and feel I’m being led to Orthodoxy. But I feel the West is just as valid. Again, please pray for me. Lord Jesus have mercy on me. Thank you.
I pray for you, my friend. I understand it can be confusing to know what to do, after all, we have many things in common but I do believe with all my heart and mind that the fullness of the faith lies in the Orthodox Church, the only Church of Christ.
Thank you! I’ve been studying Orthodoxy for years now as a Protestant. I pray the prayers of the Orthodox Church and the fasts of the Church faithfully for year now. And I will say, it is definitely transforming me. I’ve had miracles and supernatural things happen in my life as a Protestant. I’ve been used in some of them as well. And I came to faith in Christ in a jail cell floor after reading the Gospel of St. Matthew. But doing the prayers of the Orthodox Church have added so much grace to my life. I haven’t been to the East since 09. But I’m being patient. Through study, prayer, fasting, and trials I know God will lead me to the true Church. He knows my heart. I do feel the road is to the East. And the back lash I will receive from my circles will be a big one. Thanks again.
Hey John. Do you think you could give me your reason as to why Eastern Orthodoxy is the fullness of the faith and truth? I would greatly appreciate it. It would help.
So many of us out here seeking the orthodox church
Look into Dr. Scott Hahn, Steve Ray and other converts, on TH-cam. There is a show called Journey Home, hosts by another protestant minister convert name Marcus Groti. Many many inspiring stories of converts. May God bless you and lead you on your journey 🙏
@@reneeharagsim4720 aman. Thank you. God bless you. ⛪⛪⛪⛪⛪⛪🛐💒🌻love from south Africa cape town. 🛐🛐❤
Jesus only can save you !!! How to be saved?? 1 Corinthians chapter 15 verses 1-4 read also Romans chapter 10 verses 9-13!! Have a blessed day!!
th-cam.com/video/suhtmkn_l20/w-d-xo.html
I've started my journey to Holy Orthodoxy through Father Spyridon's channel, Mount Athos documentary here on YT, along with their website "Ascetic experience" that's full of spiritual gifts.
I have been on this journey for almost two years now. I have started catechism and desiring to become Orthodox.
God bless you brother.. Go on ahead without looking back..
Becoming Orthodox was the best thing our family ever did, over 22 years ago.
This was me a year ago. Thanks be to the All-Holy Trinity I am a catechumen in an Orthodox Church now!
Many of us are feeling like this !We feel cheated in a sense and are seeking for the truth and original church! Thank you !Regards from South Africa.
Become Orthodox! Many years in Springs, Transvaal, my grandmother lived across from a Greek Orthodox church and i had no idea the depth and wonder... wandered about through various Protestant churches. Now i live in the US and recently was baptized Orthodox, by the grace of God have found the true and ancient path.
@@warrenlangsford9535 My husband and I live in Pretoia and it is so difficult to find Orthodox churches here . There is a Greek orthodox church that we will visit ,but with the lock down we will have to find out if we can attend .Thanks for your reply !
"Cheated" is exactly how I felt. I couldn't believe I did not know of the Orthodox church till I was 36. Can you believe that? 36 years!!! But I found it! Praise God!
@@latinboyyy305 God bless you abundantly !
I've had the pleasure to be in some of pastor Chan's sermons. He's a great pastor and very open and frank about his feelings. He doesn't seem to know he's looking for the Orthodox church just like I was without knowing.
Wow, NASA on my channel, and Orthodox! ☺️
@@AccordingtoJohn haha well I'm not the real NASA and I'm not Orthodox yet but I found my church and I'm looking forward to being called a proper Orthodox. Thank you for your videos brother!
Francis chan , your humble way of following God has led you to these questions. The Church is indeed one, amd going back to its root is best for all of us
"Almost like a popularity contest... I'm so popular, follow me."
I was raised Protestant, and eventually converted to Catholicism. What he is describing is exactly correct.
It's funny that Protestants balk so much at the 'call no man father' passage. Spiritual fatherhood is a scriptural principle, Jesus isn't talking about that. He's talking about that guy who stands up and says, "I figured it out. I have the answers, follow me."
Read the verse in context. He's talking about those in positions of religious leadership...like, oh I don't know, priests.
@@skippy8696 "Timothy, because of our faith, you are like a son to me." (1 Timothy 1:2)
" just as you know how we were exhorting and encouraging and imploring each one of you as a father would his own children." (1 Thessalonians 2:11)
"Even if you had ten thousand guardians in Christ, you do not have many fathers, for in Christ Jesus I became your father through the gospel." (1 Corinthians 4:15).
Funny how Paul, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, seems to clearly indicate that spiritual fatherhood is not contrary to Christ's teaching..
This is literally the definition of context.
+Peace in Christ+ Have a Happy Thanksgiving and Merry Christmas, I mean it!
WE NEED MORE ON THE HARVEST ;th-cam.com/video/qX_fryE0jKA/w-d-xo.html
@@skippy8696
Non sense because Paul himself calls himself a father in the faith.
I never balked. Neither do I know any Presbyterian like me who balks. And you have broken one commandment - thou shalt not judge. Generalising on some experience and labelling it for the entire community is not a good approach my friend.
Богородице Дјево, радуј се Благодатна Маријо, Господ је с Тобом! Благословена си Ти међу женама, и благисловен је Плод Утробе Твоје, јер си родила Спаса душа наших!
That's very close to how I feel. I was raised non-denominational leaning toward baptist, then fell into skepticism when studying biology, then searching for truth immersed in nature God drew me back to Christ and in looking for the church I find lots of people arguing and dividing and scattering and on one hand I want to say none of it stops God saving who He will but on the other I feel compelled to find the Apostolic Church and it is looking like it's Orthodoxy.
Thank you for sharing that. It is benefitting for me too to hear what people are struggling with and their journeys towards Christ and His Church.
@@AccordingtoJohn I'm overjoyed that commenting might have helped you even a fraction of how much your video helped me. Thank you very much. I have subscribed and am looking forward to watching all of them. God bless you.
Thank you too, God bless!!
Keep up the search Brother! After 18 years of Catholicism and 25 years of various Protestant denominations I am a catechumen joining the Orthodox Church. The more You search for the Truth the more it takes You back to the beginning, and there is only one Church that has been there since the beginning.... Orthodoxy.
It is go ahead join Orthodox Church finally feel at home without looking back God bless you
Crazy love was a book that is still on my list of favorites. Here I am finding myself questioning my own path of faith, researching orthodoxy, and stumble upon Francis Chan doing the same. I cant help but feel like God is calling his people…
I am being drawn towards orthodoxy for sure. I haven't even been to an orthodox service yet as I am cut off by location, but I anticipate going and I already feel like I know it's a Divine appointment
Christ calls us even before we know him, never leave this calling, the devil does everything he can to hinder people to come to Christ
@@AccordingtoJohn yes. I I'm 48 years old. I was raised in the Mormon cult. Got powerfully saved out of that then had my heart broken and back slid into alcoholism and drugs for 25 years. 2 years ago the Lord drew me back into fellowship with himself. I have experienced many mighty works of God. The process of sanctification is ongoing and profound. What I've learned about orthodoxy over the internet I find to be a blessing and I will definitely pursue further as circumstances permit. That said, I feel the need to also acknowledge the extraordinary grace of God throughout all the Earth, the doctrines of Grace that minister to me constantly through the teachings of reformed scholars and theologians. I am powerfully blessed and built up through the teaching of God's word as handed to us through the Reformation.
@@AccordingtoJohn I just stumbled across my comments from a couple of years ago. I've been baptized over a year now! So whatever happened with Francis Chan?
I am 48 years old now, I have been drawn to Orthodoxy for a few years but like you "cut off by location". The other day I felt a deep conviction that Orthodox was the Church, a peace came over me and "I knew". I hope you've found a Church near you, hope one will be near me one day.
@@Im_No_Expert_72 my second reply to you. I too struggled in my earlier life with issues that you mention. I'm very happy to see you have found a Church. What Church were you Baptized in if you don't mind sharing?
As a retired Minister, I find myself exploring the Orthodox Church, for the same reasons Francis Chan is
I knew. Chan is on his way to home.
Church is waiting for him and our all separate brothers and sisters
I also have been on this journey “ my people perish due to lack of knowledge”
I was Catholic 40 years. Then, Protestant 10 years. For 10 years I got deeper into the word, and closer to Christ, thanks to my Protestant evangelical brothers. They feed only on the word, and live. But there is more, not just the Eucharist. If one wants to “worship” Jesus Christ, listen and proclaim, in union with the church, the words at the liturgy of the mass. It is full out worship of Jesus, the Lamb of God.
This is where I am. The protestant services are all "I,I, you, you" and very little "HE". Yet the liberty of working out your own salvation with fear and trembling can't be denied.
I think we've lost the fear and trembling.
My picture: Orthodoxy is the responsible, turned bitter father who was abandoned by the libertine wife;
Catholicism is that wife; and protestants are the children of the broken union--- some developed into spiritually healthy, functional people--others are completely lost, devoured by wolves because of their vulnerability.
Wow, this takes incredible bravery! You have my prayers brother.
This is the thought process that led me to become Orthodox.
this is me Praise the Lord for the Orthodox Church and how they have held the Truth for 2 thousand years., Pastor Chan nailed it....my exact siruaruion. Thank you Father for sharing the wisdom.
This is the exact question that I asked before becoming Catholic. I read the book Rome Sweet Home by Scott Hahn and it filled in all of the questions.
Now you should take one more step and become Orthodox, join the True Church of Christ.
@@walterdreiberg The true Church is the Catholic Church. The Orthodox Church allows for remarriage up to 3 times and contraceptives. I’m not going to lie, I love the liturgy, the chant, and the icons but it’s liberal in it’s moral doctrines regarding marriage and family. Is that what the Orthodox Church really teaches or is it a different kind of Orthodox Christian Church? From what I understand the Greek and Russian Orthodox Church are not in speaking terms. If I am wrong, please correct me. I am not here to fight but to learn. I thought that this priest was a Byzantine Catholic priest but then I realized that he is not in communion with the Roman Pontiff.
@@walterdreiberg..why would they go to a church in Schism like Orthodox. Catholicism is the true Church.
I'm a Catholic, and I subscribe to everything you said!
Then you may as well go to Orthodoxy - the original. When Rome separated from the united Church, they open the door for the Protestant reformation too. The Protestants corrected some of the errors of Rome and later Rome’s Counter Reformation followed the lead of the Protestants, but neither Rome nor the Protestants have went back to Orthodoxy yet.
@wesleyhornberger4305 wesley as Mr Chan said the need is to study the early church. The church fathers speak the reality and truth of belief and practise in the first years from the teaching of the apostles. The universal church the Catholic church was founded by Jesus. Read the bible, the great commission Matt.28:16-20.
Yup, Francis is where I am.
Man I just stumbled on this video and This exactly how Ive feeling about Christianity various interpretations
Yes, I think many do. It is not meant to be so. We are supposed to fight our passions, not worry if our church teaches heresy. I imagine it can be exhaustive from time to time.
Thank you for sharing
I had this breakthrough a few weeks ago and have been considering and studying orthodoxy lately. Shocker, here it is in my suggestions
Revolutionary. Thank you, Pr. Francis & Fr. Josiah.
I’m a Protestant who is inquiring into Orthodoxy, and having watched sermons from Pastor Chan, it doesn’t feel surprising that he’s started coming to these conclusions. Pastor Chan has always had a very fervent desire for closeness to God and a love for Him that is palpable. Perhaps in time he will be lead into the historical churches.
What intrigues me is that he produced a video series in which one of the many things he addressed was this idea of people "feeling their way" towards God, by asking, seeking, knocking, seeing the Eternal power and Divine nature manifested in creation. It seems that now he is the one experiencing that, feeling his way towards the true Church as Christ established her. If he converts, that will expose millions of Evangelical christians to Orthodoxy, and could possibly create a massive influx of people returning to the roots of their faith. Let us pray for Francis Chan, and all the Christians in America, that all would be united under Christ in the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church.
Do it~~~ It's the Eucharist!!!
Believe in Jesus Christ ONLY !! How to be saved?? Read in the bible 1 Corinthians chapter 15 verses 1-4 please read also Romans chapter 10 verses 9-13. Have a blessed day!!
@Phil Andrew "... an incredibly incoherent and dumb thing to say" is akin to saying, "You're dumb," which isn't exactly gentle and respectful. Even if The Gospel messenger is uninformed/misinformed on or unaware of the Bread of Life discourse as you and I know in John 6 as well as that part in St Paul's letter to the church in Corinth that speaks to the true presence (cf. 1 Cor 11:23-30), it doesn't deserve a reply like yours.
@@user-di8vz5ec1i actually Jesus Christ has a body here with members that take his body and blood as he order them . saying just to believe in Jesus Christ iss actually a tricky satanic say because he does not make you get in the one truly body of Jesus Christ his one ecclesia
I became an Orthodox Christian after 24 years as a Protestant. Best thing I ever did.
Francis Chan, I've been following you since college when my Protestant friends introduced me to you.....can't wait for you to come home to the Catholic Church ❤️❤️❤️
Francis speaks for many us Pastor/teachers [me]. We have historical writings for a reason, Josiah is becoming my source of information much need …
thank God for this.
God bless you
Good job, John.
Glory to God
@@AccordingtoJohn How to be saved?? Please read the bible 1 Corinthians chapter 15 verses 1-4 Romans chapter 10 verses 9-13.Have a blessed day!!
Fr Josiah stands on solid rock foundations
Byzantine Catholic 🙏🏻📿❤️
👍🏻
@Rovca Tribesman did you mean to say “cult?”
Byzantine Rite Ukranian Catholic here! The Catholic Church is the answer. This fact may be tough for some to believe because of the freemasonic/communist/homosexual infiltration in order to try to destroy the Catholic Church from within. Nevertheless the Catholic Church is the original Christian Church founded by Our Lord Jesus Christ 2000 years ago. It will be restored after the consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary is finally done. Dominus vobiscum! Glory to Lord Jesus Christ! Glory Forever! ☦️
@@RapidCycling07 Slava Isusu kristu
Same here, Eparchy of St. Nicholas in Chicago
I like how Hank and the other guy just sat there and listened to Francis collect his thoughts.
As a 1689 Reformed Baptist, I 100% agree that it's right and would be best to have holy communion every Sunday. It's almost unheard of in Protestant Churches.
I appreciate your comment. I agree, it’s weird, it kinda seems like there is an attitude that communion is getting in the way and just makes the service longer so let’s hurry up so we can get out of here.
JOHN 10: 27 - 28:
27. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28. And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
Listen!
So much respect for all of these men. Where is the original version of this video?
You can find it in the description! God bless
@@AccordingtoJohn Thank you
@@edsloan4307 you are welcome :)
Then I would do a serious investigation into all of the Eucharistic miracles. I would then read about the greatest mass conversion to Christianity in the history of the world. Our Lady of Guadalupe appeared in Mexico to the Aztecs and 9 million converted in 8 years! That’s about 90,000 baptisms per month for 9 years! Chew on that for a while. All became Roman Catholic. It’s no wonder the church is still divided listening to some of the comments.
@drag0nfly_girl What are you implying? That the 9 million conversions were not from God? Our Lady of Fatima and other revelations has already foretold of the great falling away from the Church before advent of antiChrist a century before. The Church is going to repeat the Passion of Christ and ressurrection.
Yep
No biblical proof Mary ever ascended to heaven.
@Read Father Seraphim Rose Your argument is very conditional with a lot of "would". I'm just saying that I don't find any evidence in Scripture of her ascending to heaven. Had there been a biblical proof, I'd easily accept it, it's just not there.
This is so beautiful!!! Glory to thee o lord!! Always loved Francis Chan, and the lord calling him to Orthodoxy!!! Such a blessing!!! Kyrie Eleison!!!
No Shane Stancik, the Lord has no preference in all those different christian denominations!! How to be saved?? 1 Corinthians chapter 15 verses 1-4 Romans chapter 10 verses 9-13. Have a blessed day!!
@@thegospelmessenger1corinth634 there is One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church, and the rest are separated brethren actually. But keep seeking Him out brother!!!
As someone that still considers himself somewhat charismatic-evangelical, I can say with full assurance having seen the light of the Holy Ghost in both denominations that protestants miss out on so much that has already been passed down...often acting live a movement or revelation is new.
I have found stability, lightness and nourishment in the Orthodox Church, having spent countless confused years in Protestant church. Not confused in myself but with the rudderless ship sailing to nowhere.
I'm Reformed but enjoy these takes and like this channel.
Thank you! I am glad you are here, it means a lot!
He's eccoing my very thorough.
Every sign post along my post protestant journey points to orthodoxy
He's being very honest. It's humbling. May he come home to the Orthodox Church. It's where he will find exactly what he's looking for.
This is how I feel
Keep searching, keep knocking, and pray. Find an icon of Christ and pray in front of it. Stand there in silence. God is calling all to Himself. It is not we that choose the path to salvation but He. To be united to His Church is to be united to His Body. which is salvation. We are the branches and by being united to the tree we receive the life of the tree.
Very difficult to admit and accept for pastor chan that all the time invested with his beliefs is being challenged and he looks shocked..scared.. and being in a flight or fight response at the same time. Let God arise and his enemies be scattered!
God bless Chan
2:55 This is the crux of it all for Protestants: pride and arrogance. It was the case for me before I surrendered to the One Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church of Christ - The Orthodox Church.
Since my journey began into Christ’s church, I noticed so much pride in my soul - I knew everything I needed to know through Scripture and the Holy Spirit. As I gave myself over to the Truth, I found how arrogant I was(am). I began to hear that same arrogance and pride in all the Protestant family and friends I spoke to(and still do). My soul longs for their salvation, because I remember well the state of my soul as a Protestant before Christ led me to His Holy Church.
He’s asking the same questions I was asking in Bible college and Methodist seminary that led me to the Orthodox Church.
LET’S GOOOOOOOOOO
Anglican here. We have the bishop, priest, sacraments, alter, great love for the traditions, weekly creeds, etc. When creating rubric for mass, it relied heavily on tradition. Many Anglicans feel a strong connection to our orthodox brethren, but also our Protestant as well.
I hope pastor Chan can at least try to incorporate some of the ceremony of the centuries with his church. Perhaps start with the church calendar. Many Protestant churches do advent. It’s a step in the right direction, I think
Christ is risen!
I would say I am still going to the church established by St Theodore of Tarsus, of happy memory. His notional successor is Cardinal Nichols in his role as President of the Bishops’ Conference. I would encourage everyone to say St John Fisher’s Prayer for Holy Bishops. There is an issue at the moment.
Select or highlight the text of the prayer which I mentioned, right-click and then left-click to search the Internet to track down this prayer.
Has anyone Orthodox tried to reach out to Chan? He might stumble upon this video, but, there's no guarantee.
He was talking with Orthodox people right there lol. He has orthodox friends .
@@lukericker8325 I don't know who is in the red, but based on that, he is not dressed as a canonical Orthodox clergy person. As for the other gentleman, is that Hank Hanaagraft? A description of who's who in the video would be helpful.
@@gregcoogan8270 Hank Hanegraff is Orthodox, but the other 'Metropolitian' is a sort of pseudo OO/Protestant figure
I mean he was with Hank Hanegraaf who is orthodox
2:35 wow. I have a lot of respect for a man who could say that and blast it to the world on TH-cam.
I definitely want to tead the early church fathers on my own (full letters) and see what they believed. Many protestants just say that we have better theologeans today, but that seems a really poor excuse to dismiss early theology.
tbh im at this point as well! im from a pentecostal evangelical family and i feel like the foundations arnt stable. and the orthodoxy seems like the historical stone i should put my stance on... i just dont know please pray for me!
Remember one thing: The Holy Spirit brings uniformity of understanding about Christ and a conformity to Godliness, not a tradition nor a lineage of people no matter how godly
My faith as a believer is not based on the 16th century but on the Word of God “ delivered once for all to the saints” Jude 3
He uses the 16th century as a marker for those who left the Catholic Church but there were true believers all along before that time
You should get Josiah back to address the intercession of the saints and veneration of icons as that's one of protestants main gripes (i.e. it's not biblical) and just how is the best way to approach that complaint i.e. does one start getting into whether sola scriptura is actually a valid notion or is there some other way to approach it?
Yes, many interesting topics there.
Look up Fr. Josiah topics on TH-cam: Patristic Nectar Films where he addresses icons
Also TH-cam channel Y2AM is excellent for American Orthodoxy education
Hi Mr Liver, intercession of saints and veneration of icons are both biblical. If you want to look into Iconography I would suggest the recent Jay Dyer stream on it. As for the intercession of the saints, there is also biblical evidence for, I know that protestant SamShamoun has done several videos on it.
The veneration of saints and extreme elevation of Mary, can be rationalized but never justified. While I understand that she was and is Jesus' beloved and blessed mother, He does not love her more.
I do shudder to think about people who degrade her. Maybe any distortion of her role has consequences.
Pastor Chan sounds like me when I returned back to Roman Catholicism after going to several different Protestant churches
Then you may as well go to Orthodoxy - the original. When Rome separated from the united Church, they open the door for the Protestant reformation too. The Protestants corrected some of the errors of Rome and later Rome’s Counter Reformation followed the lead of the Protestants, but neither Rome nor the Protestants have went back to Orthodoxy yet.
I appreciate the offer, but I'll stick with the chair of Peter and pray for the unity of all churches under one.
God Bless!
I think having a discussion with James white would really be something to see
I feel it’s telling that he used the word Eucharist.
I am praying for Francis Chan. He’s wholeheartedly searching. He’s getting so much negativity from many of his former colleagues and church members.
Praise the LORD, O My Soul
…2I will praise the LORD all my life; I will sing praises to my God while I have my being. 3Put not your trust in princes, in mortal man, who cannot save.4When his spirit departs, he returns to the ground; on that very day his plans perish.…
Job Responds to Zophar
…6The tents of robbers are safe, and those who provoke God are secure-those who carry their god in their hands. 7But ask the animals, and they will instruct you; ask the birds of the air, and they will tell you.8Or speak to the earth, and it will teach you; let the fish of the sea inform you.…
Almost a year later , is there any indication that Francis Chan ever saw this video from Fr. Josiah Trenham answering his question: _What should I do next?_ . Has he moved at all in this direction ?
Francis Chan actually began the conversation by critiquing that Eastern Orthodoxy has tribal thinking (i.e. everyone else is not part of the true Church). This scene was cut off which misrepresents Francis' stance.
This video is so beautiful , i grew up catholic to protestant , seeing money bag pastors and lack of reverance for the eucharist and other holy biblical traditions i rather consider myself "non -denominational christian " because its so confusing reading scripture and picking a church to attend , living in seattle Wa, i cant find an orthadox church but i would love to visit one
There would be Orthodox Churches in Seattle.
What pastor Chan described at the beginning reminds me of what frank Schaefer described as a ‘cult of personality’
What do we do if we live in a town where there is not an orthodox church anywhere within two hours driving distance? I'm so interested but there are only evangelical churches here in my neck of the Bible belt.
Does anyone know where the complete interview of this is?
What are some of the specific st. books, he talks about, that would be recommended to be read? Do you know where I could find a list?
He is speaking in general that we should give our attention first to the works of saints. There are many many workes and it depends on what you want. If you are interested in reading Church Fathers that deal with many dogmatic issues you can take a look here: svspress.com/categories/Popular-Patristics-Series/
Here is other patristic series: www.amazon.com/Early-Church-Fathers-38-Vols/dp/1565630815/ref=pd_lpo_14_t_1/136-5017264-1138152?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=1565630815&pd_rd_r=9426c01b-5274-463b-b866-a7b8528e56ee&pd_rd_w=oKBkN&pd_rd_wg=M0IsS&pf_rd_p=7b36d496-f366-4631-94d3-61b87b52511b&pf_rd_r=V2BD4CJEH6XZ7EX4DZP2&psc=1&refRID=V2BD4CJEH6XZ7EX4DZP2
But there are many more books, for example on the life and teachings of the saints. Here is one about a modern saint, st. Porphyrios, that helped my wife to become Orthodox. It is not argumentative as we in the west are used to think of apologetics, but by simply reading and breathing the love and wisdom of this saint my wife was introduced to the authentic love of Christ www.amazon.com/Wounded-Love-Wisdom-Saint-Porphyrios/dp/9607120191/ref=pd_lpo_14_img_1/136-5017264-1138152?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=9607120191&pd_rd_r=984f0099-318f-420b-800d-74e8866edc3e&pd_rd_w=LqmGQ&pd_rd_wg=9ubei&pf_rd_p=7b36d496-f366-4631-94d3-61b87b52511b&pf_rd_r=SEN0B2DCJPN7HSPM1GBV&psc=1&refRID=SEN0B2DCJPN7HSPM1GBV
Thank you for this. Yes I understand. Much appreciated! I had a powerful encounter with Christ a number of years ago that changed my life. It wasn’t in any church. Wanting to know more about the Eastern Orthodox beliefs and traditions. Thanks. Peace and blessings.
Thank you for your labor, John. God bless you.
@@minawoniannous4960 God bless you, glory to God
@@pylerocks Also the Optina Elders series! And Elder Thaddeus of Vitovnica! "Our Thoughts Determine Our Lives"
I hope this is an appropriate question, but I guy used to listen to on the radio a long time ago. When I was still, Penecostal has now converted to orthodox his name is Hank Hanegraaff have you heard of him and what do you think of what he has been saying, regarding orthodoxy on the Bible answer Man
Josiah, What is the Gospel, How can one be saved, And what is the evidence of true salvation in ones life?
The Gospel is that The second Person of the Trinity, the Divine Logos became man and in doing so He united to himself humanity and healing it, saving it. By dying on the Cross and rising from the dead, Christ trampled death by death and bestowing life to those in the tomes. We have our life in Christ then, are adopted as sons of God by being in the Son of God. And we are in Christ by being united to his Body, the Church, in faith and love and in repentance. Nurtured by, and participating by the mysteries of Church, which are the work of the Holy Spirit, we are living the new life in Christ, going from glory to glory in humility and participating in the uncreated Energies of God. The assurance is not in ourselves but in Christ that the path of salvation he has given us, the Church, leads to salvation, which is divinization by grace not by nature.
15He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?”
16Simon Peter answered and said, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”
17Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven. 18And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not [g]prevail against it. 19And I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth [h]will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.”
What is so hard here to understand.
First Jesus, God incarnate, blesses Simon. Then he changes Simon's name to Peter (rock). Then he says on this rock he will build his church. Then he gives Peter the keys of the Kingdom and give him the power to forgive or retain sins instituting the Sacrament of Reconciliation. Peter was the Bishop of Rome, not Constantinople. Saint Peter is buried beneath Saint Peter's Basilica IN ROME. I am just a lowly lay person but, as I said, what is so hard to understand about this?
Does he think that Sola Scriptura was supported by the Church Fathers? Because, the way I see it, if you are going to believe in what the Early Church Fathers taught, you have only two possible options: converting to Roman Catholicism or converting to Eastern Orthodox.
There was never a time when we all agreed.
😁 AMEN!
@Read Father Seraphim Rose even in the new testament, at the very beginning, the Jewish-Christians and Gentile-Christians were not on the same page. So nope.
I was saved in 2013 at age 39 and God is leading me away from western evangelical church and toward Eastern Orthodox Church ❤
So if I’m not in the Orthodox Tradition, I’m not in the church. If I’m not in the church than I’m not in Christ. If I’m not in Christ I am condemned.
Am I understanding this correctly? I’m not being difficult, I’m trying understand the position.
It is something I think the Church needs to address more. We cannot say for certain that any person is in hell except for like Judas the betrayer
@@nightlysobbing we can say that many go to hell, according to the Bible
@iron lion, if you sincerely seek for truth you will find it. The Church is 1 body
No, each persons salvation is ultimately a mystery between him and God, and the Church never declares that we know what has happened to a particular person after death except for the few who we canonize as saints. Even someone like Judas we do not say we KNOW is in hell. Ultimately, humility should lead one to desire obedience, bcuz this is the true path of self denial and freedom from pride. Christ established a particular ministry in giving His apostles the authority to bind and loose on earth, as well as giving Peter specifically the keys to the Kingdom, and He told His apostles that he who listens to them, listens to Him. Obedience and humility should call one to the ordered Church Christ established and cause one to flee from the disorder and false freedom where everyone presumes to have the authority that Christ gave to Peter, and which Peter and the apostles passed on to those who succeeded them
Wow, Francis Chan seems like where I have been the last couple of years. I sadly dismissed him but he shows real honesty and sincerity in that clip. Who is he speaking to in that clip? The South Asian man in the red looks really familiar but I can't put a name on his face.
I am going to say this only once. What do you have at Langley on my "Father"???
I am Eastern Orthodox, so what millions of people are. Well I guess in America it is quite unique.
I asked the same questions before becoming Lutheran and now Im home :)
The problem with holding to a theory that the ancient church was monolithic in doctrine is not true. There are doctrines, like the Trinity, that survived based on God's Mercy and Sovereignty, for the majority of the ancient Christians abandoned it. So then to make these kinds of arguments, especially when it comes to the eucharist, is extremely ahistorical. For the Church fathers did not necessarily believe or agreed on all these things. Even looking at the writings between Origin and Anthansius when it comes to the relationship of the persons of the God-Head, is something that is concerning to me.
Therefore, you can make the argument all day concerning that people can make their own interpretations when they read their Bibles. However, that has been happening since the beginning of the Church. Also, you had the Church condemning Athanasius for being Trinitarian. Therefore, in Athanasius' own view the only way to defend the deity of Christ was not to appeal to the authority of the Church but to the Word of God. Hence, the Church was wrong based on God's word.
This is the conundrum: The issue is then how do you know the Church is false, but by the Word. How do you know how to interpret the Word, by what the Church says. It goes to show either both are not right.
One goes to Sola Scriptura, the other to Sola Ecclessia.
@@robertrogers6676 all your insights plus the other guy makes me sure that ,although i eagerly desire to submit to men of God who came before me, and are legitimate saints, i recognize their flaws, and much of their wrong views was be cause they were product of their generation. Specially when the content is view on celibacy and sex, the Fathers lost the track almost completely due to their subtle stoich, vilified, dualistic view of the human body. Therefore i know the organic church of God, not protestant or eastern, The Bride, are there, and lions can recognize other lions when they find one another.
@@robertrogers6676 orthodox theology doesnt "develop" St palamas's ideas built on every other council that proceeded him as it has been taught from the beginning, the O/O are simply on the wrong side of chalcedon, it's not hard
I hope he comes to the Eastern Catholic Church or Western.
Then he may as well go to Orthodoxy - the original. When Rome separated from the united Church, they open the door for the Protestant reformation too. The Protestants corrected some of the errors of Rome and later Rome’s Counter Reformation followed the lead of the Protestants, but neither Rome nor the Protestants have went back to Orthodoxy yet.
I'm a evangelical Christian. I was not born in a family of believers, I was actually born in former USSR, where atheism was sort of a State Religion. But I was searching for meaning of life and at age of 16 I recieved Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior.
I was looking for God in different religions, I visited an Orthodox Church, but as Metropolitan Anthony of Sourozh said, you can't realy believe in God unless you saw a light of eternity shining through someone. At that time of my life I saw that light through people from a Baptist Church.
Many years went by. About 10 years ago, or more, I started reading some Church Fathers and was fascinated with they lifes and they relationships with God. During these years some of my christian friends left protestant church and became Orthodox....then all of them turned they back on me, I was no more a friend for them. Later, all of them, except one, left Orthodox Church and returned to the World, to a lifestile of unbelievers. That one didn't leave the church, in the contrary, he became a deacon in a Russian Orthodox Church in US.
With time I became more and more interested in Orthodoxy, I had lots of questions. I thought my friend, who is an Orthodox deacon, would answer my questions. But when I started to ask, he just pushed me away with such words as "if the Church (meaning Orthodox) is not your mother, God is not your Father"....
Despite of all these negative experiences with orthodox believers, I'm still drown to the Orthodox Theology. I watch orthodox channels on youtube everyday, and read books. I try to understand some difficult for an evangelical mind consepts. My theology though, already changed a lot..., I was looking for someone, who will represent the true Orthodoxy. But, so far, orthodox churches in my city remind me more some civil clubs, and those who speak publicly are mostly the same type of people like in every other church, well educated, proud, convinced that they are the only true believers.
And those who are exceptions, who look genuine, who I would trast to answer my questions, they are either already dead (Metropolitan Anthony of Sourozh, and Elder Paisios), or they are far away from me, and I'm not sure if they will be willing to answer... And the saddest thing, I found no present day Russian speaking orthodox Preast or a Monk, who would have a channel on TH-cam, and who will be as wise as orthodox teachers of the West.... It's very sad. I'm at the point where I need guidance, like pastor Chan, I'm asking myself, what's next, and I have no one to help me find an answer....
Of course you do, Christ himself. Let him lead the way. The path may not be clear right now, but keep your spirit pointed towards Christ and pray for his guidance as you navigate your faith. Many blessings on your journey.
Does anyone know if Francis Chan has moved any closer to the ancient faith? It seems that he "dabbled" in it but did not embrace it.
If I were a Protestant going back in time, unable to find a specific church in-line with my particular “Christianity”, then maybe I’m just looking for “Church” in all the wrong ways.
As a human being made in the image and likeness of God, I always have to bring “Orthodoxy” back to the fundamental reality of what it means for God to become man. That is the ultimate foundation of the Faith, is it not? Anything less is just arbitrary subjectivity.