I raised my seven kids in a nondenominational church, for reasons too long to write here. I convinced them to give me one year in an Orthodox Church, that I wasn’t saying our current church was bad, but I wanted them to try out the religion I was baptized in and if they didn’t like it they could always go back. All seven kids and my husband got baptized this October. They say it feels like being at home.
I am cradle orthodox who had a lot of Protestant influence growing up, and as an adult, had a falling away from Christianity, and eventually married a Protestant woman and eventually found Christ again, and am attending a “non denominational” church. While I see the beauty in it, and have enjoyed going, I am being drawn back to the church. My wife is very Protestant and is extremely hesitant to go to orthodoxy. Do you have any advice?
I am cradle orthodox who had a lot of Protestant influence growing up, and as an adult, had a falling away from Christianity, and eventually married a Protestant woman and eventually found Christ again, and am attending a “non denominational” church. While I see the beauty in it, and have enjoyed going, I am being drawn back to the church. My wife is very Protestant and is extremely hesitant to go to orthodoxy. Do you have any advice?
Take it very slowly. As many American Protestants are very iconoclastic. So take it slowly and read the church fathers. They will slowly peel the layers back and show that the early church was not like a Baptist church at all. In fact they didn’t have pews at all until the 1500s. Just one little thing to show
The story about the Asian man is so similar. Coming from a protestant church, my first experience during Holy Liturgy was like that. I didn't understand anything, but I felt the presence of God and it was as if the Bible was represented live in front of me. This was about a month ago. I did go to the protestant church after the first time and it didn't feel right anymore. Praise God for guiding us to His truth. 🙏
I watched this video before returning to the Orthodox Church. My wife and I just watched it again after reviewing some notes from our priest. My wife had a similar experience to your friend from Japan. For years I tried to explain Orthodoxy to her but she needed to experience it for herself. I was gone so long I had forgotten what little I knew. Your videos are resource to both converts and reverts.
Relays my own experience so well. I was baptized and chrismated in the Church last year on Pentecost, and was just married and crowned in the same parish last Saturday. Glory to God!
OMG, that's how I felt. After visiting soooo many churches, my first Divine Liturgy I felt overwhelmed and felt such reverence. I knew after that that I needed more. I'm now 2 months in and so wanting to be a catechumen.
His words are so true my first experience the church of the Bible came alive in my face I was astounded by His presence now I pray for people to have the same experience
well, if you believe in any way a faith plus works salvation, as the catholics do and many orthodox (meaning you have no assurance of salvation) the scripture disagrees with you.
@@willtheperson7224 For someone who made the claim that the whole of scripture proves Orthodoxy, its quite surprising you haven't actually provided any scripture to validate your claim. Where do you find your position in the scripture? that touted by orthobros and catholics? Jesus himself said “Truly, truly, I say to you, the one who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.'' John 5:24 ''has eternal life'' in the present sense. You have eternal life when you believe. ''But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name,'' John 1:12 Its belief that saves and makes one a child of God. Once you are Gods child, you are His. And thus can be assure of your salvation. ''All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out.'' John 6:37 Jesus will not cast you out. ''and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.'' John 10:28 Like said before, you are granted eternal life when you believe. No one can take that away from you, not even your self. You may stumble, backslide and occasionally fall into sin. But you still belong to God as you were purchased with a price (1 Corinthians 6:20) Also, the distinction should be made, falling from grace and losing ones salvation are not the same thing. One can grieve the Holy Spirit. But once you are Gods child, you are His child.
@@samename5875 John 5:29 NKJV and come forth-those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation..... Those who have done good= works John 6:53 NKJV Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you. This is Eucharist and it's also a type of works and unless your from apostolic faith you don't belive in actual blood and flesh despite that Jesus said so..... John 10:32 Jesus answered them, “Many good works I have shown you from My Father. For which of those works do you stone Me?” Even Jesus does good works. 1 Corinthians 6:2 Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world will be judged by you, are you unworthy to judge the smallest matters? You clearly dont belive in Saints as a Protestant, Corinthians 7:5 Do not deprive one another except with consent for a time, that you may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again so that Satan does not tempt you because of your lack of self-control. ... Nor do you practice fasting as it is also a type of works. Enough of refuting you. Repent and ask for forgiveness and I hope you will be eluminated someday
@@samename5875 the mental gymnastics of your position is very ironic. You do realize the “moment of your salvation” when you said the Jesus prayer, repented and accepted Christ into your heart (the typical Protestant soteriology) was WORK. Mental work sure but it was work 😂 Why do you set a false dialectic up in interpreting scripture as if works somehow oppose salvation or you make it an either or where it’s only works or only faith.
All facets of Christianity reveal realities concerning BEING IN GOD. The church not an institution, but a gathering of those called out and awakened to who they truly are. Galatians 1/16. Orthodoxy is closest to the way the early church fathers understood the relationship of our humanity with that of God. Franciscan Catholicism the reality of Omnipresence. Protestantism the hunger for scriptures etc. But ultimately where ever we chose to gather we are encouraged to worship God in spirit (hearts) and in truth( reality). Maybe Christianity has lacked the witness to transform the world because of our desire to know God through intellectualism or emotionalism. Blessings to all who seek to find!
My dad came with me for 6 month's, and even after all that, he still didn't get it, and stopped coming. He simply doesn't want to shift into a mode of surrendering, suffering, and devoting his entire self from his more comforting belief of easy-Christian "all is well" Protestant-style pattern. Please pray for him! Western Protestant-type culture has ruined so many soul's salvation!!! 😢
It’s funny how i had the opposite experience that you had. Grew up in Greek Orthodox Church and felt no spirit from the the people attending. I was born again at 37 years old and felt the spirit among these Protestants who love God.
If you “feel it” then it’s not at all the “Holy spirit”. The true Spirit is not felt as some feeling but It makes you repent and change yourself into a new human being, restoring the fallen Adam image. These exalted feelings we are seeing in the videos are not at all what’s Christianity about!
I just reviewed 1 Corinthians 14. Their worship gatherings did not look like anything I have ever seen in an Orthodox church. It appears that lots of people in the communities of the early church were welcomed to speak, to share a hymn, a prophecy, a word of encouragement, etc. People from among the lay folks were praying in tongues, interpreting tongues, and prophesying. I have never seen that happen in an Orthodox church. How can we look at 1 Cor 14 and with a straight face say that the Orthodox church is that church Paul describes? And people have powerful experiences of the presence of God in lots of different sects of Christianity. At the end of the day, we just need to make sure we obey what Jesus commands. What church sect we give allegiance to is not going to save us if we do not walk that narrow path he taught us.
@@thomasalbinholmes2538 Christ wanted to His church, His body, to be one. How can His body be one when you have one group that believes we have to worship on the Sabbath. Another group believes that John 6 was just symbolic. Another group believes that Baptism is a symbol and doesn't do anything. Another group believes that once you're saved you can sin all you want and you are saved no matter what. Another group thinks that images and statues are idols because they don't know what the difference is. I could keep going on and on. Read John 17. See what Christ was praying for.
@@johnsix.51-69 I agree. He wants unity. He and the apostles also say there will be some kind of great apostasy, that the love of many will grow cold due to the increase of sin, that false teachers and false teachings will come from within the church... And the reality is that there just is a lot of division, and that every church which claims to be the right one looks very little like the church of the apostles. So we are in a very difficult and messy situation. I think we all need to sober up and get serious about what Jesus actually said to do. Sermon on the mount, walk in humility and the fear of God, help the poor, stay awake, love our neighbor and enemy in the same way our Master did. I don't think most Protestants, Catholics, or Orthodox take Jesus very seriously.
1 Corinthians 14:18-19 18 I thank my God I speak with tongues more than you all; 19 yet in the church I would rather speak five words with my understanding, that I may teach others also, than ten thousand words in a tongue. 1 Corinthians 12:31 But earnestly desire the best gifts. And yet I show you a more excellent way: 1 Corinthians 13: Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal. 2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, but have not love, it profits me nothing.
Appreciate your channel. However, I am confused. The context of 1 Cor. 14:25 is speaking about all prophesying. How does this relate to the Divine Liturgy?
Is it possible that history affected church practice? The early church was in its infancy. But it developed as time progressed. Scripture might be descriptive rather than always prescriptive for all time? However your question is thought provoking.
Read again => Verse 19 and verse 23 : It says that the Church is together prays and speakes in tongue (thank to the Holy Spirit) During the hard persecutions, the first Christians were together only for the Christian cult :> and the teachings of the Apostles and the Apostolic Fathers...
I don't see 1 Corinthians 14 talking about what he's referencing: "cut to the quick" in fact, I see a lot about speaking in tongues and prophesy. Please help me understand what scripture your'e referencing.
My husband was baptized in the Orthodox Church because he was baptized as Catholic as baby. We don’t consider Catholics as having a Grace since they restrained from the truth 1054 ad with Filioque and fell into heresy.
@@Alpha-Omega33 actually the orthodox faith although valid, broke from the Catholic Church over politics and things like devorse which orthodox allows But is unacceptable in Catholic Church. The filoqe has been a Catholic view since the inception 7 counsels were accepted by the orthodox community and then revoked later due to the patriarchal leaders fighting to be second in command to the bishop of Rome Also there is one baptism for the forgiveness of sin So you’re husband was baptized a second time which is a grave error
@@leom6421 I don’t think you are well educated why the Orthodox Church not only broke but anathematized the west! They changed the symbol of faith that is absolutely forbidden to be changed! The Holy fathers on the first ecumenical council said “even if an angel of Heaven comes and tells you something different let it be anathema”. By what authority they changed it when it’s accepted by Grace!? The truth of God!? The 12 stars on the head of the woman!? They took their fathers wife as a bride committing sexual spiritual immorality against God! And then accepted insane doctrines such as indulgences and papal infallibility! They are dead but they will live again after the 1000 years which already passed. It’s way before 1054 when they became heretics. The whole west will fall but the fall will be a resurrection! And the Baptism is valid ONLY in the Orthodox Church and it MUST BE with 3 full immersions! If not Christ needs justice and to clothe the Church properly with the Sun which cannot happen with pouring or sprinkling and soon the earth will swallow the river of water that the dragon poured onto the woman! The seven thunders are the seven Holy Councils. It was never a mystery for the Church! Whoever tells you something different than Gods truth let him be anathema!
@@leom6421 1. 1054 AD. Out of five Patriarchates, one says " I am special. I will be a pre-protestant, saying that the collegiality is not good anymore, even if it is biblical. Rome vs Constantinopole, Antioch, Jerusalem and Alexandria. The score was 1:4. So who really left the True Faith? 2. Baptism ( "baptism" means immersion, diving) at able bodied people is done by immersion, not by sprinkling or pouring. Therefore, invalid baptism equales no baptism. 3. Saint Gregory Palamas ( whose "heresy" was condemned by the Catholic Church for 7 centuries but now is a Saint in the Roman scheme due to "Saint"? Pope John Paul the 2nd) said that latins are satan's children for inserting Filioque. How can a heretic for centuries suddenly be a Saint?
@@pavelcrestin1 The orthodox tradition is actually the first Protestant schism as they broke from the keys of Peter, even they admitted that the bishop of Rome was the first among equals . And that is why the orthodox tradition is fractured among nationalist lines There is no universal church among the Orthodox tradition. Your either a Russian , Greek , Ukrainian ect ect Orthodox not just orthodox. They wanted the kingdom of Christ to be a democracy. Unfortunately it is a monarchy. Christ the king and the vicar of Christ is his leader on earth. It is the continuation of the kingdom of David. I pray that the orthodox comes back into the sheepfold of the king And we fight together against the kingdom of man. A kingdom divided was not what Christ prayed for or demanded
I had a fall on your face and repent experience in my bedroom NOT AT CHURCH. Raised baptist. I cannot understand how this points to the orthodox church. It seems to be really about your heart. But i am curious however to visit an orthodox church and see for myself.
@@AllforOne_OneforAll1689The priesthood is clearly present in the New Testament, which you'd know if you weren't so dedicated to your ignorance. For all the parading you did throughout this comment section, there's not a single thing anyone can ever learn from your shallow and incomplete interpretations. 1 Peter 5:1-5, "So I exhort the elders among you, as a fellow elder and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, as well as a partaker in the glory that is going to be revealed: shepherd the flock of God that is among you, exercising oversight, not under compulsion, but willingly, as God would have you; not for shameful gain, but eagerly; not domineering over those in your charge, but being examples to the flock. And when the chief Shepherd appears, you will receive the unfading crown of glory. Likewise, you who are younger, be subject to the elders. Clothe yourselves, all of you, with humility toward one another, for 'God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble.'" Note the use of the world "elder" here, keeping in mind that we're subject to them as they are shepherds of God's flock. The original Greek here for "elder" is "presbuteros." Where do you think the word "priest" comes from? And what role in the Church do you believe a priest has that would contradict this passage? What do you make of Paul's description of himself as a father in Christ to those in Corinth (1 Corinthians 4:15)? Also, the burden of proof is on you regarding any implication that Christ came to establish a new religion. The apostles unanimously understood The Way to be the fullness and completeness of the faith they grew up in, not a new religion. Christ did not abolish the priesthood, the order of Melchizedek, who serves the copy and shadow of the heavenly things (Hebrews 8:4-5) as stewards of the mysteries of God (1 Corinthians 4:1). Moreover, before you quote Hebrews 8:13, be reminded that "covenant" and "religion" are not synonymous. A new covenant is another way of saying that a fuller, deeper and more efficacious healing of the inner person has been made newly available to us in Christ, not to the effect of establishing a new religion, but to the effect of establishing a better promise infused within the divinely instructed pattern Christ Himself gave unto Moses so long ago; a promise of true healing, of true life. That pattern once given didn't suddenly cease to be the copy and shadow of the heavenly things, God doesn't change His mind (Numbers 23:19), and He is the same yesterday, today and forever (Hebrews 13:8). He simply brought the ancient faith of the Israelites-which He Himself observed-to its ultimate fulfillment and perfection, whereby we have a Church that is a true hospital for our souls, our whole person. For Christ to be the One Who truly founded the Church, with the Holy Spirit as the One Who guides it into all truth, we trust that Christ would not found a church that would err in preserving His teachings. After all, we're assured that gates of hell will not prevail against her (Matthew 16:18), and that she is the pillar and foundation of the truth (1 Timothy 3:15). The law is not made void, but rather established continuously in Christ (Romans 3:31), as only Christ can administer the Torah properly, hence the Sermon on the Mount. Only in Him by the Holy Spirit could the apostles take part in that administration, as well as the successors of the apostles (2 Timothy 2:2). I won't argue in favor of the Pope, I'm Orthodox, not Roman Catholic. We Orthodox hold that Christ is the head of the Church, the chief cornerstone, and all "orthodox" really means is a full preservation of the teachings of Christ and His apostles-who are ambassadors on behalf of Christ and all of whom Christ warns us not to reject (Luke 10:16). As an Orthodox Christian, we do not believe that the faith developed or evolved over time, but that it was given fully and completely at Pentecost (Jude 1:3). The "corruption of the Church" is a myth and a lie, the ridiculous notion that God would have left His Church in ignorance for 1300+ years, and you would do well to investigate the (Orthodox) Church earnestly and in good faith. That way, at least you'd be able to speak of Orthodoxy without grossly misrepresenting it as you have been. Again, I will not defend the Catholics and their doctrinal developments. But as there is quite the biblical impetus both for being in the "apostolic Church" which Christ founded (Ephesians 2:20) and for attaining to right doctrine (Acts 2:42, 2 Thessalonians 2:15, 1 Timothy 4:13-16), that leaves only the Orthodox and the Catholic churches, and the choice seems clear to me. In fact, if you were to bother reading the apostolic fathers, there'd be no room left for your sort of cognitive dissonance, that the Church went into error or that it was some "invention of the empire." Not only is it absurd to suggest that the "true Church" died with the apostles, but the rich witness of the early Church makes clear what Christians have always believed at all times, in all places, in one faith. It was and is the one faith given once for all to the saints (Jude 1:3), within which we were instructed be of one mind and one judgment without division (1 Corinthians 1:10). You can feel free to call Orthodoxy a demonic lie all you want (the most common accusation from unhinged Protestants), I know Orthodoxy foremost by its fruits, both personally and in the lives of the saints and the unity with Christ they experience. Case in point, if you can honestly look at the life of someone like St. John Maximovich, for example, and call him a worshipper of demonic lies, I pity you. This goes for any of the pre-Schism Saints, and the post-Schism Eastern Saints. Judge Orthodoxy by its fruits, not by your feelings, and not by making yourself the arbiter of truth. After all, any heretic can quote Scripture; I'd urge you to look deeper and hold Orthodoxy under well-researched and honest scrutiny. Nothing you've said is honest, and should you refuse even to consider these things which I've written that can be personally tested, you reveal yourself to be a hater of truth. Forgive me for broadly generalizing your position, but frankly, I've heard your sort of inane rhetoric many times before and it gets old. The examples of accusations against Orthodoxy which I've written above tend to be the most common, yet none of them are remotely true.
@@jabrication8048 The New Testament does not teach Apostolic succession. There were no longer any Apostles after the original 12. So your point is incorrect. Yes they appointed elders but that's a different thing entirely. Paul never calls Timothy an Apostle in training. Now do you believe a person must do works to be justified?
@@jabrication8048 Your claim that the orthodox church is the original church contradicts what the Catholics believe. They say they're the original church. So how are they wrong and you are right?
@@AllforOne_OneforAll1689Apostolic succession means two things: the foundation and continued deposit of leadership and authority through the laying on of hands (2 Timothy 1:6, 2 Timothy 2:2), and that Christ's teachings and their teachings on behalf of Christ are kept rightly preserved (1 Corinthians 11:2, 2 Thessalonians 2:15, 2 Thessalonians 3:6, 1 Timothy 1:3, 2 Timothy 1:13-14). That it doesn't use the term "apostolic succession" is not a good argument. The term "Holy Trinity" isn't in Scripture either, and yet we believe in the Trinitarian God. Protestants have heaped up a great many terms you can't find in Scripture either. And putting aside the strange anachronism in treating the Bible like it was originally written in English, being willfully dismissive of its wholly comprised teachings doesn't make for a good case. In other words, proof-texting one or two verses (which I'm sure is your go-to in the "works vs faith" scenario) and marginalizing the wholeness of Scripture and the early Church is an act of bad faith. What are works but fruits of true faith? When James says that he'll show one his faith by his works, he's referring to the genuine transformation Christ desires to make in us. Works will never justify a person, but they are evidence of a person being truly sanctified in Christ. Tell me, if the paralytic-after being healed-had continued to spend the rest of his life lying down anyway and doing nothing, would it have mattered much that he was healed? Furthermore, do you imagine that only his legs were healed, and not his spirit also? Does Christ desire that good be done in us and through us in His name, or would you say it's enough that we simply call on him and remain unchanged dullards? By Christ's mediation between us and the divine, He seeks to enact true healing of our condition, and that implies a life lived actively in union with Him. The original New Testament Greek for "faith" is "pistis," which is defined more specifically by a personification of faith, a lived faith. Would you imagine that a man doing hardly more than saying "I love you" to his wife is true evidence of love, or that the marriage has transformed him in any substantial way? You ask how I discern the claim that Catholics and Orthodox make for being the original Church, and it's true that they both share a lineage of bishops via the laying on of hands, dating back to the apostles and the authority they bestowed. I also feel I've already commented on this a bit, but I'll elaborate. Again, "apostolic succession" doesn't mean merely an authoritative lineage from the apostles, it also means that Christ's teachings and their teachings on behalf of Christ are kept preserved, without innovation or development. If you were to read a work I'd recommend called "The Religion of the Apostles," for example, you'd quickly find how the Second Temple Judaism which Christ and the apostles observed had naturally continued into The Way, uninterrupted; you'd quickly find that Second Temple Jews were not unitarian monotheists like the Rabbinical Jews of today, but in fact had already long accepted more than one hypostasis in Yahweh, even before the Incarnation. If you were to take the time to learn more about the broader tradition of Second Temple Judaism, as well as then reading from the apostolic fathers, you'd see total continuation, centuries before the supposed "corruption." You'd also see that the early Church wasn't a primitive gathering of believers, but a fully realized and structural continuation of the ancient Israelite faith, made complete in Christ. What you won't find in the early Church is purgatory, papal infallibility, certain Marian doctrines, etc., all things later developed by the Roman Catholics. The word "orthodoxy" itself is defined as the true preservation of the early Church which Christ founded. Held under honest scrutiny, and coming to know the beliefs of the apostolic fathers and what they inherited from the apostles by the Holy Spirit, the Orthodox Church is the only one that can truly make the claim that it does. As articulated by St. Vincent of Lérins (died c. 445), "The way that you can know if your faith is the orthodox faith, it's not by quoting Scriptures; every heretic does that. It's by showing that what you believe has been believed by all people, in all places, at all times, since the time of Christ." That's how you know-the test of antiquity and geography-that in fact, your faith is the faith once for all given to the saints. To put much of this to rest, frankly, when a Protestant starts with "Here's what this Bible verse means to me...," I stop listening because I kinda trust the Church fathers more than I trust you. The slogan of Protestants essentially seems to be: "I have greater spiritual insight than the apostles, disciples, apostolic fathers, the Church, and the magisterium because we have a Bible that they wrote, compiled, and gave to us." Obviously, I reject such a silly notion on principle, so long story short, I'm Orthodox and I certainly have a personal and life-changing relationship with Christ.
What origins of Orthodoxy are you from, this type of Christianity is is an Ethnic caste system sort of like Brahma for example if you hsve no Syrian then you can go to service but have to be a Syrian to recieve any communion. A Catholic for instance is lower caste like. Shudra and is not allowed such if not of Greco origins. Orthodoxy means purity of origins and Catholic which an insult meant universal "scattered" impure all over the place.
Really great - but a small correction - the Orthodox Church is NOT the Ancient Church :) t's a LIVING CHURCH :) The Orthodox people have been living within this Church for 2000 years now - it is not ancient for us - it is our Living, True Church. My humble opinion is that it is very wrong to call it Ancient Church, when it has been Alive and practiced by millions of people for 2000 years now :)
That’s a sweet thought but what about the Ancient of Days? No one thinks he’s dead, just old. To be ancient is to be old. To be ancient and alive is to go beyond our natural nature!
The Bible for me is the Codex Amiatinus, which was produced in Jarrow or Monkwearmouth (in County Durham in England) about 700 AD and is still in existence. I made my First Holy Communion at St Bede's Catholic Church in Jarrow, and one thing I have in common with the Bishop and the scribes who wrote out that Bible is that we all say the Filioque in the Creed. The war in the Ukraine does not impress me with the Orthodox Church. Nor does their requirement that I give up my veneration of John Fisher and Thomas More. It's an alien religion where the sacraments have the correct form, but the content is somewhat lacking.
are you unaware that all Orthodox Churches outside of Russia have condemned the violence, called for peace, and raised hundreds of thousands of dollars to help ukrainians escaping the war? The Russian invasion of Ukraine was not because of Church matters, it was because NATO and the other western european countries were ignoring Russia's requests on borders and kept getting closer and closer to Russian soil with military bases and missiles. this sent Russia into a panic, because they didnt want Ukraine to be used for western military bases, and so they violently and horrifically invaded. We Orthodox are praying for Ukraine and have been speaking out against Russia's violence since the invasion took place. God help the Ukrainian people
@@ethandetienne1904 What is supposed to be happening now is that the Russian and Ukrainian Churches will get back together again and mount a joint mission to my country to set up an English Orthodox Church. This will then persuade me to forget about filioquist heretics like Fisher and More. To me the fight against cesaropapism is an important one with Fisher and More as the heroes and Patriarch Kirill as a principal villain. Arguments about St Theodore's Filioque take second place. May I wish you success in your efforts to help the Ukrainian people. I will pray for them as well.
The filoque was an addition to the Truth and not the truth as was presented in the Creed or handed down to us from the time of the Holy Fathers. Orthodoxy is the true faith without any additions or subtractions.
@@danieltirsoreanu2152 The Filioque was indeed an addition or innovation which in England occurred at the Council of Hatfield in 680, with St Theodore, of happy memory, presiding.
As a protestan i humbly ask why should i follow eastern orthodox or the catholic chuch what makes either one of you the true christian church.as far as i know both of you have the same claim. And basically the same history.
Alors lisez : « Ma vie en Christ » de St. Jan de Kronstadt. Chez les protestants, le seul but d’un conseil de paroisse est de trouver un moyen de faire entrer le fric dans les caisses, de spiritualité, il en est peu question! Donc?
Sadly - Protestantism is by definition a multiplicity of over 30,000 man made traditions which has for its hallmark ….division rather than being led into all truth by the Holy Spirit as promised by Jesus , is Christ divided ? Ex peotestant here , grew up from childhood , experienced Christ for the first real time and instantly recognised that the Spirit of truth was not leading the protestant churches …. No judgement for the people them, so do I , but soo many teaching are opinions on interpretation which just create man made traditions
Respectfully, you're misquoting 1 Cor 14. There is nothing about "praying with reverence, fear of God" or "receiving the gifts with piety and compunction". You're talking about loving the scripture and all that and then you're adding to it a minute later. Not a good sight, honestly.
Exactly. This was supposed to be a talk on how scripture is supposedly the way to the Orthodox sect, but no scripture was cited, only a butchering of 1 Corinthians 14, and a random, irrelevant personal anecdote.
As usual Trenham is wrong again. He seems to purposely misquote 1 Corinthians 14 to push the idea that the orthodox church is what is going to convince an unbeliever to salvation. However, Paul is saying the ministry of the Holy Spirit via the gift of prophesy is what unbelievers will come into the church and see and become converted. Read this passage for yourself below and do not deceived by the crafty traditions of men. ”Therefore tongues are for a sign, not to those who believe but to unbelievers; but prophesying is not for unbelievers but for those who believe. Therefore if the whole church comes together in one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those who are uninformed or unbelievers, will they not say that you are out of your mind? But if all prophesy, and an unbeliever or an uninformed person comes in, he is convinced by all, he is convicted by all. And thus the secrets of his heart are revealed; and so, falling down on his face, he will worship God and report that God is truly among you.“ I Corinthians 14:22-25 NKJV
Why is that so hard to belive? If I go to a country where I don't speak the language but I can feel the presence of the Lord, does it matter that I don't understand the language when you feel the Lord? I as Greek visit Serbian church and I don't understand anything but my prayers are heard and I have as good connection to God as in a Greek church.
One doesn’t just understand through rational faculties. There are many different ways of knowing. We can know through our senses: seeing the beauty of nature, the affectionate touch of a loved one, the scent of a fragrant rose, the taste of delicious food. These don’t require reason to apprehend. So it is with sensing the presence of God if one is spiritually attuned.
@@v.g.Orthodox Of course you do, we are One True Church; our decentralisation to bishoprics and (purely in worldly matters) into autocephaly is our strength... So no part can be in heresy for too long.
How can you be a believer and be outside the body of christ "He who believes in me has eternal life" Are there two kinds of believers? Doesn't make sense
I raised my seven kids in a nondenominational church, for reasons too long to write here. I convinced them to give me one year in an Orthodox Church, that I wasn’t saying our current church was bad, but I wanted them to try out the religion I was baptized in and if they didn’t like it they could always go back. All seven kids and my husband got baptized this October. They say it feels like being at home.
I am cradle orthodox who had a lot of Protestant influence growing up, and as an adult, had a falling away from Christianity, and eventually married a Protestant woman and eventually found Christ again, and am attending a “non denominational” church. While I see the beauty in it, and have enjoyed going, I am being drawn back to the church. My wife is very Protestant and is extremely hesitant to go to orthodoxy. Do you have any advice?
I am cradle orthodox who had a lot of Protestant influence growing up, and as an adult, had a falling away from Christianity, and eventually married a Protestant woman and eventually found Christ again, and am attending a “non denominational” church. While I see the beauty in it, and have enjoyed going, I am being drawn back to the church. My wife is very Protestant and is extremely hesitant to go to orthodoxy. Do you have any advice?
Take it very slowly. As many American Protestants are very iconoclastic. So take it slowly and read the church fathers. They will slowly peel the layers back and show that the early church was not like a Baptist church at all. In fact they didn’t have pews at all until the 1500s. Just one little thing to show
@@Lycurgus47Pray for her conversion to Eastern Orthodoxy
"Even though I didn't know what was going on, God was there!" That story is so beautiful 🙏
The story about the Asian man is so similar. Coming from a protestant church, my first experience during Holy Liturgy was like that. I didn't understand anything, but I felt the presence of God and it was as if the Bible was represented live in front of me. This was about a month ago.
I did go to the protestant church after the first time and it didn't feel right anymore. Praise God for guiding us to His truth. 🙏
I watched this video before returning to the Orthodox Church. My wife and I just watched it again after reviewing some notes from our priest. My wife had a similar experience to your friend from Japan. For years I tried to explain Orthodoxy to her but she needed to experience it for herself.
I was gone so long I had forgotten what little I knew.
Your videos are resource to both converts and reverts.
Relays my own experience so well. I was baptized and chrismated in the Church last year on Pentecost, and was just married and crowned in the same parish last Saturday. Glory to God!
Wow! Praise God!
OMG, that's how I felt. After visiting soooo many churches, my first Divine Liturgy I felt overwhelmed and felt such reverence. I knew after that that I needed more. I'm now 2 months in and so wanting to be a catechumen.
You made me shiver !!!
The first minute and a half totally relates to my experience.
His words are so true my first experience the church of the Bible came alive in my face I was astounded by His presence now I pray for people to have the same experience
The whole of the scriptures proves Orthodoxy.
Change my mind.
well, if you believe in any way a faith plus works salvation, as the catholics do and many orthodox (meaning you have no assurance of salvation) the scripture disagrees with you.
@@samename5875 Where do you find the notion that you can be sure of your salvation and not fall from it in scripture?
@@willtheperson7224 For someone who made the claim that the whole of scripture proves Orthodoxy, its quite surprising you haven't actually provided any scripture to validate your claim. Where do you find your position in the scripture? that touted by orthobros and catholics?
Jesus himself said
“Truly, truly, I say to you, the one who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.'' John 5:24
''has eternal life'' in the present sense. You have eternal life when you believe.
''But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name,'' John 1:12
Its belief that saves and makes one a child of God. Once you are Gods child, you are His. And thus can be assure of your salvation.
''All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out.'' John 6:37
Jesus will not cast you out.
''and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.'' John 10:28
Like said before, you are granted eternal life when you believe. No one can take that away from you, not even your self.
You may stumble, backslide and occasionally fall into sin. But you still belong to God as you were purchased with a price (1 Corinthians 6:20)
Also, the distinction should be made, falling from grace and losing ones salvation are not the same thing. One can grieve the Holy Spirit. But once you are Gods child, you are His child.
@@samename5875
John 5:29 NKJV
and come forth-those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.....
Those who have done good= works
John 6:53 NKJV
Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you.
This is Eucharist and it's also a type of works and unless your from apostolic faith you don't belive in actual blood and flesh despite that Jesus said so.....
John 10:32
Jesus answered them, “Many good works I have shown you from My Father. For which of those works do you stone Me?”
Even Jesus does good works.
1 Corinthians 6:2
Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world will be judged by you, are you unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
You clearly dont belive in Saints as a Protestant,
Corinthians 7:5
Do not deprive one another except with consent for a time, that you may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again so that Satan does not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.
...
Nor do you practice fasting as it is also a type of works.
Enough of refuting you. Repent and ask for forgiveness and I hope you will be eluminated someday
@@samename5875 the mental gymnastics of your position is very ironic. You do realize the “moment of your salvation” when you said the Jesus prayer, repented and accepted Christ into your heart (the typical Protestant soteriology) was WORK. Mental work sure but it was work 😂
Why do you set a false dialectic up in interpreting scripture as if works somehow oppose salvation or you make it an either or where it’s only works or only faith.
I love how you describe orthodox Christian belief and culture to the other side of believers. Thank you so much being the voice of orthodox believers!
Sola Scriptura took me back to the Catholic Church then to Orthodoxy.
Same.
I'm a 27-year Lutheran. Started to question the Solas and it led me to Orthodoxy.
Cool story!
All facets of Christianity reveal realities concerning BEING IN GOD. The church not an institution, but a gathering of those called out and awakened to who they truly are. Galatians 1/16. Orthodoxy is closest to the way the early church fathers understood the relationship of our humanity with that of God. Franciscan Catholicism the reality of Omnipresence. Protestantism the hunger for scriptures etc. But ultimately where ever we chose to gather we are encouraged to worship God in spirit (hearts) and in truth( reality). Maybe Christianity has lacked the witness to transform the world because of our desire to know God through intellectualism or emotionalism. Blessings to all who seek to find!
My dad came with me for 6 month's, and even after all that, he still didn't get it, and stopped coming. He simply doesn't want to shift into a mode of surrendering, suffering, and devoting his entire self from his more comforting belief of easy-Christian "all is well" Protestant-style pattern. Please pray for him! Western Protestant-type culture has ruined so many soul's salvation!!! 😢
Awesome, similar to my experience.
I met Jesus Christ in the pages of the Holy Bible.
It’s funny how i had the opposite experience that you had. Grew up in Greek Orthodox Church and felt no spirit from the the people attending. I was born again at 37 years old and felt the spirit among these Protestants who love God.
you weren't born again. re read John 3
@@franciscafazzo3460 explain
@franciscafazzo3460 what's your view of born again? Is it in baptism or a church sacrament or is it something else?
Someone whos “born again” would not speak with such pride and hatred as you do. Judging your brothers failings and failing to see your own.
If you “feel it” then it’s not at all the “Holy spirit”. The true Spirit is not felt as some feeling but It makes you repent and change yourself into a new human being, restoring the fallen Adam image. These exalted feelings we are seeing in the videos are not at all what’s Christianity about!
Protestants rely all the time on Folklore and Visions, that we may be able to find in Life of Saints. Not all of them, some of them.
Not sure I understand your comment, can you ellaborate?
Like what ?
@@Hoodinator17 prophecies from someone at church about their lives, god speaking to them etc
@TheMhouk2 what is prophecying in 1 Corinthians 14 : 24
@@prayunceasingly2029προφητεία ( prophéteia) the gift of communicating revealed truth, forthtelling. Not necessarily foretelling.
I just reviewed 1 Corinthians 14. Their worship gatherings did not look like anything I have ever seen in an Orthodox church. It appears that lots of people in the communities of the early church were welcomed to speak, to share a hymn, a prophecy, a word of encouragement, etc. People from among the lay folks were praying in tongues, interpreting tongues, and prophesying. I have never seen that happen in an Orthodox church. How can we look at 1 Cor 14 and with a straight face say that the Orthodox church is that church Paul describes?
And people have powerful experiences of the presence of God in lots of different sects of Christianity. At the end of the day, we just need to make sure we obey what Jesus commands. What church sect we give allegiance to is not going to save us if we do not walk that narrow path he taught us.
"DIFFERENT sects of Christianity." Did you skip John 17?
@@johnsix.51-69 Please expound my friend. I'm listening.
@@thomasalbinholmes2538 Christ wanted to His church, His body, to be one. How can His body be one when you have one group that believes we have to worship on the Sabbath. Another group believes that John 6 was just symbolic. Another group believes that Baptism is a symbol and doesn't do anything. Another group believes that once you're saved you can sin all you want and you are saved no matter what. Another group thinks that images and statues are idols because they don't know what the difference is. I could keep going on and on. Read John 17. See what Christ was praying for.
@@johnsix.51-69 I agree. He wants unity. He and the apostles also say there will be some kind of great apostasy, that the love of many will grow cold due to the increase of sin, that false teachers and false teachings will come from within the church... And the reality is that there just is a lot of division, and that every church which claims to be the right one looks very little like the church of the apostles. So we are in a very difficult and messy situation. I think we all need to sober up and get serious about what Jesus actually said to do. Sermon on the mount, walk in humility and the fear of God, help the poor, stay awake, love our neighbor and enemy in the same way our Master did. I don't think most Protestants, Catholics, or Orthodox take Jesus very seriously.
1 Corinthians 14:18-19
18 I thank my God I speak with tongues more than you all; 19 yet in the church I would rather speak five words with my understanding, that I may teach others also, than ten thousand words in a tongue.
1 Corinthians 12:31
But earnestly desire the best gifts. And yet I show you a more excellent way:
1 Corinthians 13:
Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal. 2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, but have not love, it profits me nothing.
Glory God in the highest 🙏🏻❤and on earth 🙏🏻
Appreciate your channel.
However, I am confused. The context of 1 Cor. 14:25 is speaking about all prophesying. How does this relate to the Divine Liturgy?
Is it possible that history affected church practice? The early church was in its infancy. But it developed as time progressed. Scripture might be descriptive rather than always prescriptive for all time? However your question is thought provoking.
It doesn't
Read again => Verse 19 and verse 23 : It says that the Church is together prays and speakes in tongue (thank to the Holy Spirit) During the hard persecutions, the first Christians were together only for the Christian cult :> and the teachings of the Apostles and the Apostolic Fathers...
Yeah Trenham as usual misquotes scripture and history to suite his manmade traditions. This video is a great example.
@@optimisteprime8261 It doesn't mention divine liturgy and that's the end of the discussion.
I don't see 1 Corinthians 14 talking about what he's referencing: "cut to the quick" in fact, I see a lot about speaking in tongues and prophesy. Please help me understand what scripture your'e referencing.
This was also my experience regarding Sacred Scriptures when I became Catholic. I like to say I finally became a Bible Christian.
My husband was baptized in the Orthodox Church because he was baptized as Catholic as baby. We don’t consider Catholics as having a Grace since they restrained from the truth 1054 ad with Filioque and fell into heresy.
@@Alpha-Omega33 actually the orthodox faith although valid, broke from the Catholic Church over politics and things like devorse which orthodox allows
But is unacceptable in Catholic Church. The filoqe has been a Catholic view since the inception
7 counsels were accepted by the orthodox community and then revoked later due to the patriarchal leaders fighting to be second in command to the bishop of Rome
Also there is one baptism for the forgiveness of sin
So you’re husband was baptized a second time which is a grave error
@@leom6421 I don’t think you are well educated why the Orthodox Church not only broke but anathematized the west! They changed the symbol of faith that is absolutely forbidden to be changed! The Holy fathers on the first ecumenical council said “even if an angel of Heaven comes and tells you something different let it be anathema”. By what authority they changed it when it’s accepted by Grace!? The truth of God!? The 12 stars on the head of the woman!? They took their fathers wife as a bride committing sexual spiritual immorality against God! And then accepted insane doctrines such as indulgences and papal infallibility! They are dead but they will live again after the 1000 years which already passed. It’s way before 1054 when they became heretics. The whole west will fall but the fall will be a resurrection! And the Baptism is valid ONLY in the Orthodox Church and it MUST BE with 3 full immersions! If not Christ needs justice and to clothe the Church properly with the Sun which cannot happen with pouring or sprinkling and soon the earth will swallow the river of water that the dragon poured onto the woman! The seven thunders are the seven Holy Councils. It was never a mystery for the Church! Whoever tells you something different than Gods truth let him be anathema!
@@leom6421 1. 1054 AD. Out of five Patriarchates, one says " I am special. I will be a pre-protestant, saying that the collegiality is not good anymore, even if it is biblical. Rome vs Constantinopole, Antioch, Jerusalem and Alexandria. The score was 1:4. So who really left the True Faith?
2. Baptism ( "baptism" means immersion, diving) at able bodied people is done by immersion, not by sprinkling or pouring. Therefore, invalid baptism equales no baptism.
3. Saint Gregory Palamas ( whose "heresy" was condemned by the Catholic Church for 7 centuries but now is a Saint in the Roman scheme due to "Saint"? Pope John Paul the 2nd) said that latins are satan's children for inserting Filioque.
How can a heretic for centuries suddenly be a Saint?
@@pavelcrestin1
The orthodox tradition is actually the first Protestant schism as they broke from the keys of Peter, even they admitted that the bishop of Rome was the first among equals . And that is why the orthodox tradition is fractured among nationalist lines
There is no universal church among the Orthodox tradition. Your either a Russian , Greek , Ukrainian ect ect
Orthodox not just orthodox. They wanted the kingdom of Christ to be a democracy. Unfortunately it is a monarchy. Christ the king and the vicar of Christ is his leader on earth.
It is the continuation of the kingdom of David. I pray that the orthodox comes back into the sheepfold of the king
And we fight together against the kingdom of man. A kingdom divided was not what Christ prayed for or demanded
The Holy Orthodox Liturgy convert a hole Impair (Russian) to Orthodoxy . Thanks
I can’t find the verse 😢
I had a fall on your face and repent experience in my bedroom NOT AT CHURCH. Raised baptist. I cannot understand how this points to the orthodox church. It seems to be really about your heart. But i am curious however to visit an orthodox church and see for myself.
How’s was it
@@Kauahdhdhd the orthodox church? Idk still haven't made it there yet!
@@TEWMUCH attend Divine Liturgy, God bless you
@@Kauahdhdhd ok thanks. God bless 🙌🏿
@@TEWMUCH watch orthodox shahada
I called Orthodox Christian churches to get answers and they judged me cuz i wasnt a part of them
"The texts about [...] priests [...]"
Still looking for those in the New Testament 🤦♂️
There ain't any about priest nor the pope...
@@AllforOne_OneforAll1689The priesthood is clearly present in the New Testament, which you'd know if you weren't so dedicated to your ignorance. For all the parading you did throughout this comment section, there's not a single thing anyone can ever learn from your shallow and incomplete interpretations.
1 Peter 5:1-5, "So I exhort the elders among you, as a fellow elder and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, as well as a partaker in the glory that is going to be revealed: shepherd the flock of God that is among you, exercising oversight, not under compulsion, but willingly, as God would have you; not for shameful gain, but eagerly; not domineering over those in your charge, but being examples to the flock. And when the chief Shepherd appears, you will receive the unfading crown of glory. Likewise, you who are younger, be subject to the elders. Clothe yourselves, all of you, with humility toward one another, for 'God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble.'"
Note the use of the world "elder" here, keeping in mind that we're subject to them as they are shepherds of God's flock. The original Greek here for "elder" is "presbuteros." Where do you think the word "priest" comes from? And what role in the Church do you believe a priest has that would contradict this passage? What do you make of Paul's description of himself as a father in Christ to those in Corinth (1 Corinthians 4:15)?
Also, the burden of proof is on you regarding any implication that Christ came to establish a new religion. The apostles unanimously understood The Way to be the fullness and completeness of the faith they grew up in, not a new religion. Christ did not abolish the priesthood, the order of Melchizedek, who serves the copy and shadow of the heavenly things (Hebrews 8:4-5) as stewards of the mysteries of God (1 Corinthians 4:1).
Moreover, before you quote Hebrews 8:13, be reminded that "covenant" and "religion" are not synonymous. A new covenant is another way of saying that a fuller, deeper and more efficacious healing of the inner person has been made newly available to us in Christ, not to the effect of establishing a new religion, but to the effect of establishing a better promise infused within the divinely instructed pattern Christ Himself gave unto Moses so long ago; a promise of true healing, of true life. That pattern once given didn't suddenly cease to be the copy and shadow of the heavenly things, God doesn't change His mind (Numbers 23:19), and He is the same yesterday, today and forever (Hebrews 13:8). He simply brought the ancient faith of the Israelites-which He Himself observed-to its ultimate fulfillment and perfection, whereby we have a Church that is a true hospital for our souls, our whole person. For Christ to be the One Who truly founded the Church, with the Holy Spirit as the One Who guides it into all truth, we trust that Christ would not found a church that would err in preserving His teachings. After all, we're assured that gates of hell will not prevail against her (Matthew 16:18), and that she is the pillar and foundation of the truth (1 Timothy 3:15). The law is not made void, but rather established continuously in Christ (Romans 3:31), as only Christ can administer the Torah properly, hence the Sermon on the Mount. Only in Him by the Holy Spirit could the apostles take part in that administration, as well as the successors of the apostles (2 Timothy 2:2).
I won't argue in favor of the Pope, I'm Orthodox, not Roman Catholic. We Orthodox hold that Christ is the head of the Church, the chief cornerstone, and all "orthodox" really means is a full preservation of the teachings of Christ and His apostles-who are ambassadors on behalf of Christ and all of whom Christ warns us not to reject (Luke 10:16).
As an Orthodox Christian, we do not believe that the faith developed or evolved over time, but that it was given fully and completely at Pentecost (Jude 1:3). The "corruption of the Church" is a myth and a lie, the ridiculous notion that God would have left His Church in ignorance for 1300+ years, and you would do well to investigate the (Orthodox) Church earnestly and in good faith. That way, at least you'd be able to speak of Orthodoxy without grossly misrepresenting it as you have been. Again, I will not defend the Catholics and their doctrinal developments. But as there is quite the biblical impetus both for being in the "apostolic Church" which Christ founded (Ephesians 2:20) and for attaining to right doctrine (Acts 2:42, 2 Thessalonians 2:15, 1 Timothy 4:13-16), that leaves only the Orthodox and the Catholic churches, and the choice seems clear to me. In fact, if you were to bother reading the apostolic fathers, there'd be no room left for your sort of cognitive dissonance, that the Church went into error or that it was some "invention of the empire." Not only is it absurd to suggest that the "true Church" died with the apostles, but the rich witness of the early Church makes clear what Christians have always believed at all times, in all places, in one faith. It was and is the one faith given once for all to the saints (Jude 1:3), within which we were instructed be of one mind and one judgment without division (1 Corinthians 1:10).
You can feel free to call Orthodoxy a demonic lie all you want (the most common accusation from unhinged Protestants), I know Orthodoxy foremost by its fruits, both personally and in the lives of the saints and the unity with Christ they experience. Case in point, if you can honestly look at the life of someone like St. John Maximovich, for example, and call him a worshipper of demonic lies, I pity you. This goes for any of the pre-Schism Saints, and the post-Schism Eastern Saints. Judge Orthodoxy by its fruits, not by your feelings, and not by making yourself the arbiter of truth. After all, any heretic can quote Scripture; I'd urge you to look deeper and hold Orthodoxy under well-researched and honest scrutiny. Nothing you've said is honest, and should you refuse even to consider these things which I've written that can be personally tested, you reveal yourself to be a hater of truth.
Forgive me for broadly generalizing your position, but frankly, I've heard your sort of inane rhetoric many times before and it gets old. The examples of accusations against Orthodoxy which I've written above tend to be the most common, yet none of them are remotely true.
@@jabrication8048
The New Testament does not teach Apostolic succession. There were no longer any Apostles after the original 12. So your point is incorrect. Yes they appointed elders but that's a different thing entirely. Paul never calls Timothy an Apostle in training.
Now do you believe a person must do works to be justified?
@@jabrication8048
Your claim that the orthodox church is the original church contradicts what the Catholics believe. They say they're the original church. So how are they wrong and you are right?
@@AllforOne_OneforAll1689Apostolic succession means two things: the foundation and continued deposit of leadership and authority through the laying on of hands (2 Timothy 1:6, 2 Timothy 2:2), and that Christ's teachings and their teachings on behalf of Christ are kept rightly preserved (1 Corinthians 11:2, 2 Thessalonians 2:15, 2 Thessalonians 3:6, 1 Timothy 1:3, 2 Timothy 1:13-14). That it doesn't use the term "apostolic succession" is not a good argument. The term "Holy Trinity" isn't in Scripture either, and yet we believe in the Trinitarian God. Protestants have heaped up a great many terms you can't find in Scripture either. And putting aside the strange anachronism in treating the Bible like it was originally written in English, being willfully dismissive of its wholly comprised teachings doesn't make for a good case. In other words, proof-texting one or two verses (which I'm sure is your go-to in the "works vs faith" scenario) and marginalizing the wholeness of Scripture and the early Church is an act of bad faith.
What are works but fruits of true faith? When James says that he'll show one his faith by his works, he's referring to the genuine transformation Christ desires to make in us. Works will never justify a person, but they are evidence of a person being truly sanctified in Christ. Tell me, if the paralytic-after being healed-had continued to spend the rest of his life lying down anyway and doing nothing, would it have mattered much that he was healed? Furthermore, do you imagine that only his legs were healed, and not his spirit also? Does Christ desire that good be done in us and through us in His name, or would you say it's enough that we simply call on him and remain unchanged dullards? By Christ's mediation between us and the divine, He seeks to enact true healing of our condition, and that implies a life lived actively in union with Him. The original New Testament Greek for "faith" is "pistis," which is defined more specifically by a personification of faith, a lived faith. Would you imagine that a man doing hardly more than saying "I love you" to his wife is true evidence of love, or that the marriage has transformed him in any substantial way?
You ask how I discern the claim that Catholics and Orthodox make for being the original Church, and it's true that they both share a lineage of bishops via the laying on of hands, dating back to the apostles and the authority they bestowed. I also feel I've already commented on this a bit, but I'll elaborate. Again, "apostolic succession" doesn't mean merely an authoritative lineage from the apostles, it also means that Christ's teachings and their teachings on behalf of Christ are kept preserved, without innovation or development. If you were to read a work I'd recommend called "The Religion of the Apostles," for example, you'd quickly find how the Second Temple Judaism which Christ and the apostles observed had naturally continued into The Way, uninterrupted; you'd quickly find that Second Temple Jews were not unitarian monotheists like the Rabbinical Jews of today, but in fact had already long accepted more than one hypostasis in Yahweh, even before the Incarnation. If you were to take the time to learn more about the broader tradition of Second Temple Judaism, as well as then reading from the apostolic fathers, you'd see total continuation, centuries before the supposed "corruption." You'd also see that the early Church wasn't a primitive gathering of believers, but a fully realized and structural continuation of the ancient Israelite faith, made complete in Christ. What you won't find in the early Church is purgatory, papal infallibility, certain Marian doctrines, etc., all things later developed by the Roman Catholics. The word "orthodoxy" itself is defined as the true preservation of the early Church which Christ founded. Held under honest scrutiny, and coming to know the beliefs of the apostolic fathers and what they inherited from the apostles by the Holy Spirit, the Orthodox Church is the only one that can truly make the claim that it does.
As articulated by St. Vincent of Lérins (died c. 445), "The way that you can know if your faith is the orthodox faith, it's not by quoting Scriptures; every heretic does that. It's by showing that what you believe has been believed by all people, in all places, at all times, since the time of Christ." That's how you know-the test of antiquity and geography-that in fact, your faith is the faith once for all given to the saints.
To put much of this to rest, frankly, when a Protestant starts with "Here's what this Bible verse means to me...," I stop listening because I kinda trust the Church fathers more than I trust you. The slogan of Protestants essentially seems to be: "I have greater spiritual insight than the apostles, disciples, apostolic fathers, the Church, and the magisterium because we have a Bible that they wrote, compiled, and gave to us." Obviously, I reject such a silly notion on principle, so long story short, I'm Orthodox and I certainly have a personal and life-changing relationship with Christ.
Amen and amen!
That's not what 1 Corinthians 14:24-25 says. It's about prophesying.
What origins of Orthodoxy are you from, this type of Christianity is is an Ethnic caste system sort of like Brahma for example if you hsve no Syrian then you can go to service but have to be a Syrian to recieve any communion. A Catholic for instance is lower caste like. Shudra and is not allowed such if not of Greco origins. Orthodoxy means purity of origins and Catholic which an insult meant universal "scattered" impure all over the place.
Really great - but a small correction - the Orthodox Church is NOT the Ancient Church :) t's a LIVING CHURCH :) The Orthodox people have been living within this Church for 2000 years now - it is not ancient for us - it is our Living, True Church. My humble opinion is that it is very wrong to call it Ancient Church, when it has been Alive and practiced by millions of people for 2000 years now :)
That’s a sweet thought but what about the Ancient of Days? No one thinks he’s dead, just old. To be ancient is to be old. To be ancient and alive is to go beyond our natural nature!
The Bible for me is the Codex Amiatinus, which was produced in Jarrow or Monkwearmouth (in County Durham in England) about 700 AD and is still in existence. I made my First Holy Communion at St Bede's Catholic Church in Jarrow, and one thing I have in common with the Bishop and the scribes who wrote out that Bible is that we all say the Filioque in the Creed. The war in the Ukraine does not impress me with the Orthodox Church. Nor does their requirement that I give up my veneration of John Fisher and Thomas More. It's an alien religion where the sacraments have the correct form, but the content is somewhat lacking.
are you unaware that all Orthodox Churches outside of Russia have condemned the violence, called for peace, and raised hundreds of thousands of dollars to help ukrainians escaping the war? The Russian invasion of Ukraine was not because of Church matters, it was because NATO and the other western european countries were ignoring Russia's requests on borders and kept getting closer and closer to Russian soil with military bases and missiles. this sent Russia into a panic, because they didnt want Ukraine to be used for western military bases, and so they violently and horrifically invaded. We Orthodox are praying for Ukraine and have been speaking out against Russia's violence since the invasion took place. God help the Ukrainian people
@@ethandetienne1904 What is supposed to be happening now is that the Russian and Ukrainian Churches will get back together again and mount a joint mission to my country to set up an English Orthodox Church. This will then persuade me to forget about filioquist heretics like Fisher and More. To me the fight against cesaropapism is an important one with Fisher and More as the heroes and Patriarch Kirill as a principal villain. Arguments about St Theodore's Filioque take second place. May I wish you success in your efforts to help the Ukrainian people. I will pray for them as well.
The filoque was an addition to the Truth and not the truth as was presented in the Creed or handed down to us from the time of the Holy Fathers. Orthodoxy is the true faith without any additions or subtractions.
@@danieltirsoreanu2152 The Filioque was indeed an addition or innovation which in England occurred at the Council of Hatfield in 680, with St Theodore, of happy memory, presiding.
@@david_porthouseYou don't know enough about geopolitics or Slavic history to comment on what is happening in Russia.
As a protestan i humbly ask why should i follow eastern orthodox or the catholic chuch what makes either one of you the true christian church.as far as i know both of you have the same claim. And basically the same history.
They are not the same at all. ☦
Just go to Holy Liturgy and talk to the priest. I didn't understand it at first (coming from a protestant church) but I do now...
Alors lisez : « Ma vie en Christ » de St. Jan de Kronstadt. Chez les protestants, le seul but d’un conseil de paroisse est de trouver un moyen de faire entrer le fric dans les caisses, de spiritualité, il en est peu question! Donc?
@@ranak.6126
Really? You don't know why yourself? That's enough to tell me that you're being misled into some manmade tradition.
Sadly - Protestantism is by definition a multiplicity of over 30,000 man made traditions which has for its hallmark ….division rather than being led into all truth by the Holy Spirit as promised by Jesus , is Christ divided ?
Ex peotestant here , grew up from childhood , experienced Christ for the first real time and instantly recognised that the Spirit of truth was not leading the protestant churches …. No judgement for the people them, so do I , but soo many teaching are opinions on interpretation which just create man made traditions
And. That's what i call twisting the scriptures
Respectfully, you're misquoting 1 Cor 14.
There is nothing about "praying with reverence, fear of God" or "receiving the gifts with piety and compunction". You're talking about loving the scripture and all that and then you're adding to it a minute later. Not a good sight, honestly.
Exactly. This was supposed to be a talk on how scripture is supposedly the way to the Orthodox sect, but no scripture was cited, only a butchering of 1 Corinthians 14, and a random, irrelevant personal anecdote.
As usual Trenham is wrong again. He seems to purposely misquote 1 Corinthians 14 to push the idea that the orthodox church is what is going to convince an unbeliever to salvation. However, Paul is saying the ministry of the Holy Spirit via the gift of prophesy is what unbelievers will come into the church and see and become converted. Read this passage for yourself below and do not deceived by the crafty traditions of men.
”Therefore tongues are for a sign, not to those who believe but to unbelievers; but prophesying is not for unbelievers but for those who believe. Therefore if the whole church comes together in one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those who are uninformed or unbelievers, will they not say that you are out of your mind? But if all prophesy, and an unbeliever or an uninformed person comes in, he is convinced by all, he is convicted by all. And thus the secrets of his heart are revealed; and so, falling down on his face, he will worship God and report that God is truly among you.“
I Corinthians 14:22-25 NKJV
Orthodox faith is only true and original faith! Other religions are heresies! Woke up Mr..
@@ΧρυσοβαλάντηςΒ-ε5δ
Nah EO has a false gospel that denies God's grace. No thanks, Mr...
He didn't understand anything? But God was there? Seriously?
Why is that so hard to belive? If I go to a country where I don't speak the language but I can feel the presence of the Lord, does it matter that I don't understand the language when you feel the Lord? I as Greek visit Serbian church and I don't understand anything but my prayers are heard and I have as good connection to God as in a Greek church.
One doesn’t just understand through rational faculties. There are many different ways of knowing. We can know through our senses: seeing the beauty of nature, the affectionate touch of a loved one, the scent of a fragrant rose, the taste of delicious food. These don’t require reason to apprehend. So it is with sensing the presence of God if one is spiritually attuned.
You'll never get it, wait for your rapture.
@@SLVBULL are you born again? take your time SLVBULL, I'll give you a year to make something up.
@@v.g.Orthodox Of course you do, we are One True Church; our decentralisation to bishoprics and (purely in worldly matters) into autocephaly is our strength... So no part can be in heresy for too long.
How can you be a believer and be outside the body of christ "He who believes in me has eternal life" Are there two kinds of believers? Doesn't make sense