8 Strings....Why Don't You Just Use Pitch Effects Instead? | Pete Cottrell
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 ต.ค. 2024
- Why use an 8 string if you don't use all 8 of the strings? Can't you just use Pitch Effects on a 6 string instead?
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You should use the pedal on the eight string and teach us the true meaning of the Djent
Random Username If you like that idea give Humanity's Last Breath a listen. They do that kind of stuff all the time, it's ridiculous!
Andy Wears I'll give it a try, thanks mate
fuck yes that would be awesome!!!
Drop Zb
LoL, yeah at this point we still haven't gone low enough, after all I can still hear the notes.
Digitech pedal is the best pitch shifter in the game right now, still doesn't sound as good as the real thing though :)
Yes!
You are the expert when it comes to downtuning.
It sounds perfect for 4 semitones or less, then it's a bit muddy.
What about uppitching?
why would you pitch something up use a capo instead lul
ritzmat So you don't have to feel like you're playing on a tiny guitar with very little spaces between the frets.
There's definitely a little loss in clarity when using the pedal but honestly I'm surprised it manages to sound this good. Great video!
not just a loss in clarity, but the sustain is lacking ever so slightly compared to the 8 string, i would definitely try one of these pitch shifters after seeing this though, fun stuff!
I actually have what I think might be this same Whammy (hard to keep track of all the different iterations) and I actually used to use it for a similar purpose; i used to practice with a band a long time ago and they played in a different tuning so I had a Floyd rose on a very heavily drop tuned 6 string that I liked to take and a differemt guitar that was tuned in standard, whereas they played around C# or so, so I would just use the whammy to get either guitar to the right spot. There's a few caveats however; it's not polyphonic, so even 5th dyad power chords can make it lose track for a split second. Furthermore the pitch shifting effect is very noticeable when playing clean passages, however some might argue that it adds a certain flair to the sound that can be admirable. Thirdly, its ability to pitch shift is dependant on the pickup and tone you set your guitar to; a neck pickup with the tone rolled off yields fewer harmonic overtones compared to the "heavy metal riffer go-to", and confuses the pedal less often. One more thing... if I'm not mistaken, the whammy pedals use an LED-film mechanism in leui of a potentiometer; basically an led emits a light (visible or not) and the rocker pedal moves a film in between it and a sensor, and the film acts as a shade that is thicker on one end then the other so as you rock the pedal it "dims" the return signal to that sensor. Now, I'm not saying I know exactly how these mechanisms work or that I've seen a Whammy pedal do this, but I did have a line 6 floor board with the same mechanism in a volume pedal, and one day playing a gig in the sunlight, as the day went on and the sunlight shifted, my volume slowly fluctuated over the course of the day and required adjustment... Not a huge deal but I wonder if the whammy would slowly tune sharp or flat the same way.
I actually like that "loss in clarity" you talk about, it focuses the sound and makes the mix more balanced.
ChristianIce you mean the slight attenuation of the higher treble frequencies? I've noticed that as well but when I maint the flair from the pitch shift algorithm, I was referring to that noodling sound you hear when the algorithm temporarily misinterpreted the signal and the pitch wobbles a little bit, it adds almost like a random tremolo-esque effect or a watery sound that reminds me of the intro to "floods by pantera
+RObert
That maybe the case, but there are better pitch shifters out now with better algorithms and less delay.
The Whammy is almost 30 years old :)
The tone is definitely noticeable but it could pass. The pitch shifted guitar just sounded like an 8 string with old strings on it.
the crazy thing is a eq or boost may fix that lol its neat
6 years late, but that's a great way to describe it!
8-string has more pick attack and presence. In Whammy version, the transients get lost a little bit obviously just because you're dropping the whole signal through the pedal (I mean not only pitch but pick attack, mid range, etc). But if it weren't for the A/B comparison and you told me it's a 8-string guitar song, I''d believe it.
fuck that's a groovy tune
Gear Gods i love that groovy tune . Add some shuggs here and there and hey you gooo ! Awesome
First video of 2018 and thought it was perfect time to roll out the 8 string again! :)
Pete Cottrell does it work for djent
Works very well but i have to say the clarity of the 8 string was far superior :) but in a pinch pitch effects works well enough
Pete Cottrell Its not very far off with pitch shifting.
so 9 strings for 2019?
10 string in 2020 ????
Sick tune d00d!!! I use my Digitech Drop all the time since I like Drop B and 9s. The sound doesn't really change at all and the latency isn't an issue if I'm just dropping two or three semi-tones down. It seems to get slower and muddier the lower I go with it, so an octave might be a bit extreme lol
Interesting. The Whammy pedal I used is from like 2004, so it's pretty old. I assume the Drop pedal is largely based on the original Whammy circuitry just without the expression pedal so it's really cool to hear that it's improved. Thanks for watching dude! :)
Agufish I agree. have it too and passed 4 or more semitones gets really muddy quite fast. also HI HUNTER
The Digitech Drop works well for distorted riffing but I think it's quirks are quite noticeable when used clean playing chords or arpeggios.
Pete, check out the Whammy DT, it's a whammy plus has the digitech drop pedal built in with the addition of being able to go up in tuning as well. I don't really notice any latency, it does get a bit muddy beyond 5 semi-tones.
What about the esp 256
The pitched down 6 string sounds like an 8 string with dead strings.
Michael floyd any chance we can hear that ??
Michael floyd show us master
I kind of like that with my DigiTech Drop. I mean, on a down-tuned 6 string with a standard scale length, thicker strings would give a slightly muddier/bassier sound due to more mass
Sounded not bad! Maybe a cheaper option! \m/
You could also record a regular-pitched dry signal of your 6 string guitar, and just use some program to pitch shift the whole track after it has been recorded. That way you don't have to buy an 8-string or an effects pedal c:
you would still lose the harmonics and the clarity, so why work with it
how about a harley benton? im buying an fanned fret 7 string to upgrade from my washburn
@@fenui cus it's cheap and we broke
I don't know if three years ago there weren't any pitch shifting VST plugins available, but Pitchproof works really well and it's free. I'm assuming you use a DAW (and if not, Tracktion works pretty well aside from some minor issues, like a couple plugins I've tried not being compatible enough to use effectively, but it's free and does the job). A lot of VST technology has progressed rapidly where there isn't much of a noticeable difference between hardware and software, so if you're on a significant budget, go the VST plugin route. Even the high quality plugins that have a price tag are still much cheaper than the hardware versions they emulate. I have to use mostly free plugins though, because I'm always near broke. I did end up buying an amp sim plugin and a bass guitar sim plugin though, because free versions aren't very good. ($50 for the amp sim (Amped Roots) and $80 for the bass guitar sim (Eurobass II, which is pretty much designed for metal))
The 8 string sounded way better. Plus I can't stand the latency issue. Still curious about the comparison between an 8 string and a baritone. Great video as always!
VladKV2 The difference is all about the amount of strings and the scale lenght. A true baritone guitar is not shorter than 27” - which means that a 8-string that have a scale lenght of 27” (or longer) is a baritone, which a 6-string of the same lenght also is.
The only benefit of the 8-string (or anything that have more than 6-strings) is the extended frequency range (either 5 extra lower or higher seminotes).
Oh, I see. Thanks! :)
VladKV2 most common use of all the range is in deathcore or double hand prog tapping
check out Andrew Baena. he just compared a baritone 30" six to a nine string 30"
Can't seem to find it. Maybe it's not listed. I'll keep an eye out for it. Thanks!
The 8 has a certain growl to it that I love, but I love how wide the 6 sounds
The 8 strings has more clarity, it souns less muddy, but it might be from the scale lenght
Zantrop64 I absolutely agree with you on this.
my exact thought
No, the mud comes from the pedal. If you’ve ever played with a pitch pedal, it kills a lot of clarity.
Agreed. The scale length shouldn't be much of an issue since the 6 string was still tuned to normal tension.
Zantrop64
It's because the pedal tunes the whole signal down, so it takes both the fundamental and the harmonics down, resulting in basically no high end.
Definitely worth having in the arsenal! Thanks Pete!
Thanks for watching! :)
I actually do that in post-recording due to lack of a 7 or 8-string. But that means I have to record the riff like 1-8 semitones above the intended pitch, which is pretty awkward or hilarious, depending on the amount of dissonance.
What VST do you use for doing that?
I just use the built-in pitch adjustment feature in Mixcraft Pro Studio 8 because it works really well. I think most DAWs have one, but I'm not sure.
If you play the same riff with 1 semitone difference over eachother simultaneously... Try playing a melody on the piano using 2 adjacent keys for every note and you'll find out lol. Well, I quad track my guitar and use both regular chords and transposed notes under them. I really don't want to plug my channel here but you can hear what it sounds like in my most recent videos. I personally really like the sound.
Well, a 5, 7 or even a 3 step difference is actually harmonic. 1, 6 or 11 steps would be dissonant or augmented, which are generally considered unpleasant to listen to.
Ok.
I just got a 8 string a week ago. I wasn't sure what I would think of it. It turns out that I love it. It is fun to play and has so many different sounds. In your video they almost identical.
I use a pickup called “a little thunder”. I have both the original and new version and they are both very good.
I need to check one of those out, interesting concept :)
Mary Spender has one in one of her Vigiers...
evilution little thunder is fricking awesome
This is actually interesting. The sound of the 6 string is quite good. But the only problem is latency like you say. I prefer to use the 8 string tho.
Pete, i fucking love how you make guitars sounds and how you mix them, can you make a short video of how you do the process?
I find myself coming back to these videos not only for the experiments, but for the riffs you write. Amazing work, man!
I’m genuinely surprised by how similar they sounded to be fair! Great move Pete
The 6 string doesn't sound nearly as bad as I expected it to. But the 8 string is what truly djents here.
The wobbly and throaty timbre of the 8-string is what makes it sound way gnarlier IMO, but the pitch shifter still does a good job of getting the point across. Great video.
As an owner of a few pitch shifting pedals, I wasn't expecting much but you actually got quite close. You can hear the tension of the thicker string and how it made a difference to the tone, but like you said, certainly serviceable.
Surprisingly good! It lacked that very particular low resonance that you get from the open 8th string, but it was only on the open string that I could really tell the difference.
can't get over how good those stock agile humbuckers sound.
Pete! Another great video! Well, yes, I thought the pitch shifting effect was usable if it was a requirement to go low, however the bright bass tones coming from the eight string sounded truly amazing. Deep, tight and full of character.
Impressively close! Losing the low-end with the wood and smaller string scale paired with the processed sound you get that with the pitch shift.
The Whammy and it's sister pedal, The Drop are fantastic tools for studio and live use. After playing with it for a while, the perceived latency issues disappear. I use The Drop live to keep from changing guitars. My Epiphone Brent Hinds V retains it's tone across pitch shifting, and in the studio, any perceived loss in tone can be accounted for with some quick and easy EQ adjustments.
As an added bonus, it's nice to be able to take a riff and quickly jump between keys and tunings while your writing!
Be cool if you did another comparison with the 5th gen of this pedal man... it's improved quite a bit.
I was thinking about the latency,but you talk about it in the end,and i agree,it loses some high end,but it's surprisingly decent sounding.What i like about your channel is these ideas,these experiments that i don't see anybody else do,so keep up the good work Pete!
Great video I might get this!
Gibsoad Studios the digitech DROP pedal does exactly that but it is more compact
Until I got my seven string, any down tuning I did was with my EHX Pitch Fork. Zero latency, didn’t affect the tone too much, if any it just made it sound slightly warmer. That’s why I was never a big Whammy fan.
You always come up with sexy riffs, happy new year man, keep up with the great job, I prefer the original 8 string but the Whammy is pretty decent, just sounds muffled compared to a real 8 string, needs an EQ pedal IMO
I've never thought of using this pedal for this! It's harmonize function is my favorite. Octave down and BOOM! CKY tone! lol
wanted to do this for a long time, great to see it in application!
I'm using the digitech drop pedal from time to time for lower tuning. I think it's doing a great job for a 2 to 3 semi tones shift... I don't use it with more extreme settings (except as an obvious effect)
do u have this one or the one thats around 260-300? Is one better than the other?
Sounds solid. I always wondered why some metal bands don't just do this or detune their 6 strings. To me the point of an extended range guitar is to maintain the upper range while still being able to play lower so if you're gonna just stick to the bottom 2 strings i don't really see the point persally.
The riffs are super sick!!!
First of all, congratulations on playing the two parts so well!
I used to own a Digitech and the best feature is not only how it works but how quiet it always is when switched off (true-bypass). It seems best to add flavor to things eg, Dimebag Darrell, than to be a bona-fide replacement for other guitars. That being said, technology is progressing at such a point that there will soon be a pitch-shifter indistinguishable from the 'real thing.'
The pedal sounds better than I expected. I'd love to hear how the clean tone sounds, though.
Wow, I've always been skeptical. but the result here is pretty surprising. Might have to snag one!
I was surprised at how well the pedal did but the eight string is still better. Good videos Pete, can't want for another year of em👍
happy new year Pete ,ur an amazing creator
This video was rlly useful. Thanks so much Pete
I've thought of this very thing. Thanks for field testing it!!! The 8 string has more clarity imo.
Both sounded pretty sweet. I suppose it's all a matter of personal preference and what you intend to play in the first place. Nice 8 string chops by the way!
Wow I liked the pitch shifter more I’m surprised! Awesome idea💡
Gone this path for 7 string sound. Roland GR55, Roland GP10, Kemper Transpose at -5 and Digitech Drop -5. Kemper's Transpose for me had the lowest latency and least artifacts/glitches. Also, adding some mids and treble helped to compensate for the tone loss, but, in the end I ended-up buying an Ibanez 7-string. The transition to 7-string was quite easy, however, the dilemma I had was that the music I wrote was done on a 6-string at -5, so, on a 7-string I had to tune the G-string to an F# to make it sound right, like a Baritone (B1-E2-A2-D3-F♯3-B3-E4). This tuning unfortunately breaks chords that start with the A2 and D3 (4 and 5-string chords), so, experiment. I now use both F#3 and G3, depending on what I'm working on.
The thing is: the 8-string sounds fuller and more clear because plucking a string doesn't just mean you're hearing the vibrations of exactly one note/pitch. There are a lot of harmonics that ring even when you're not playing pinch harmonics or natural harmonics or whatever. hose harmonics however are also pitched down when using the pedal on the 6-string, as well as all the percussive sounds that come naturally from playing hard and aggressive. Still, it comes pretty close, I'm thouroughly surprised! Plus, it made me watch some of your other videos, keep up the good work!
Great video!
I've used my Whammy Ricochet for quite some time now to tune my drop D tunes guitar down to drop C, works pretty damn fine for me :)
Cool vid, as always ... I think the 8 string sounds a bit more incisive and sharp, but thing fat sound of the 6 string is dope too !
It's hard to understand what you're playing with the pitch effect. It's hard to hear the individual notes.
But with just the 8 string it's crystal clear, the mids and highs are way more well defined. But it's kinda good anyway
Ricardo Pieper
>using an 8 string
>cares about mids and highs
K
Why not? The string produces a sound wave with many overtones (like waves on top of each other, combining into one). Eliminate the mids and highs and it will sound too muddy. No djent, even on an 8 string. These overtones can actually be "selected" and "filtered"... which is exactly what natural/pinch harmonics do.
I used to have a whammy/harmonizer pedal, same one Tom Morello used. The nice thing about it is, you can get a downtuned guitar sound without messing with your tuning pegs, which can have long term effects on your neck if you tend to go back and forth. I have a 7 string now and that's about as low as I need to go.
In the video, I honestly can't hear much of a difference between the 2 sounds. I think the point is if you hear it in the room when you're playing. That for me would be the deciding factor.
Great comparison, and I love that more and more people are using agile's, personally I felt the down tuned 6 sounded a little muddy but that might just be the difference in pickups
I definitely agree. There's a loss of clarity but its not t say it muddies up the sound. I actually considered using a digitech drop for 1/2 down to 1 step and 1/2 which is the tuning i mostly play. The latency issue is miniscule, however i wouldn't record with with a pedal downshifted. I'd rather buy the proper gauge of strings to keep the tone organic.
Pete: there are other pitch shifting pedals
Everyone: *D O U B T*
Great tune man !!!
The pedal was quite convincing, if you're in a club playing with a band then the audience won't be able to tell the difference.
Very servicable idea :) Digitech's Pith Shifting stuff has always been great :)
Hey Pete!
Back when I didn't have a 5-string yet, I did actually use the Whammy function on my DigiTech BP90 multi-effect pedal. It was really hard to set up (it was just one effect, so not very precise), there was a little latency as well, and it didn't really sound great at the end, but thanks to it I was able to try and play tracks in standard B!
I still have my pedal, but I admit I don't use as a Whammy anymore - though I sometimes do very stupid and funny things with it -, as now I play on a 5-string bass.
The difference is a lot smaller than I was expecting. But the 8string is a lot better defined
The pedal did it very well. yes it is obviously muddier (considering the huge shift) but I think it is an invaluable tool for jamming & writing. Even for recording in certain situations
Who's going to Whammy an 8 up to the 6 now?
Killer vid Pete! ROCK!
There is a little more resonance in the 8-string, but that is just a natural byproduct of the thicker strings and how tightly they're tuned compared to the 6-string. Beyond that the pedal is definitely a worthy option.
I was just playing a "bass" song yesterday, using the 1oct down on my Whammy V, had Whammy IV before - they can never achieve the desired effect; And you, while playing, can definitely tell that. But it's a fun way around, if there is no other option.
Even not an octave below, just one full tone down, you still can tell the difference, esp. when playing.
Some thing I feel like for the drop tuner, musical timbre that it has one that has the muddier lower pitch, not to mention the ability to pitch up as well. Falling in reverse with their breakdowns has been a huge influence on me and they used to drop Tuner, but I believe I’ve seen their guitar players use 8 string as well
Great video, I know it comes down to string tension and pickups but I'd always go with a 8 string if I had one...
So interesting comparison!
Thank you!!!
I like the pitched down. It sounds awesome!
I use the Digitech drop pedal, its a great alternative if you dont have a bunch of guitars to keep in different tunings. Rock on Pete🤘🏼
Killer riffs as usual. Yeah the octave pedals are legit.
Humanity's Last Breath is a great example of how to use the Digitech Pedal, they got some of the heaviest sound around on a 6 string with it
I enjoyed this video very much. I've been using Digitech Drop for lower tunings for almost 4 years now. I can say that this Is the best solution If you don't want or can't get another guitar. With the Whammy you have this latency Issue, while It' NOT an Issue If you've got the Drop.
First, sorry if my english is not very good. Next:
I use the Pod HD500x pitch shifter occasionally and it sounds pretty good if I go down just a couple of semitones or 12 semitones down. The issue with this is that the amp volume must be way high in order to not hear the dissonance between the shifted note and the note coming out of your guitar so it's not a good idea for home practicing. Still, I find it really useful for rehearsals.
That muddy tone with an octave pedal sounds pretty nice.
That sounded really good actually. I'm planning on getting the DigiTech Drop pedal pretty soon. With my two guitars in standard and Drop C respectively, I should have all the bases covered.
I honestly didn't expect the pitch shift to sound that great at all. I am shocked.
100 billion percent something I HAVE to do for my orchestral death metal project. I have an 18 minute song in drop C but one of the riffs in the middle is standard tuning 8 string. you have no idea how overjoyed I am to learn this is possible like I hoped it was hahahahah
I jammed to this tune driving through town this evening lol
Pitch Shifter is an excellent shortcut. The thickness of the 8th string is what truly makes the guitar sound damn good
Digitech Drop here. Works like a charm if you`re playing loud enough to "cancel out" the actual acoustic sound of the guitar (not an issue for tracking). Haven`t noticed any latency, but then I again, I don`t play anything super technical without atm.
From what I can tell, the 8 string sounds tighter, and better(?) for the lower tuned stuff as opposed to the 6. I don't know if that's a tonal difference, seeing as though they're two completely guitars, but that's my take on it. Great video as always though, I always look forward to seeing new content! ❤
Fair solution, even with the latency issues and the loss of clarity sounded good for a pitch pedal.
The 8 string definitely had more bottom end chug, but the pitch shifter is surprisingly almost just as good. Thanks for the comparison.
I have the Digitech Drop (same pedal but without the foot rocker) and I love it for my FR guitar. I'm definitely not the cleanest player in the world, but it starts sounding kinda sloppy more than 3-4 semis down. Still glad I bought it.
I use an Digitech Whammy 5 with my seven string Ibanez baritone.
Pitch shifter helps me to downtune my guitar to drop E (actually it tuned on drop G)
It helps to play with two different bands without swapping guitars
It may sound less "good" in the general sense for most uses, but I think it's a cool sound in its own right. I can definitely imagine it would make for a great "secret weapon" for doom metal, for instance.
But also, I can't help feeling the pickups and string tension may have made some difference too. The 8th string very clearly had less tension (which I also think is preferable as ubertight low-tuned strings sound disgustingly dead).
Nice idea and it sounds like its not that bad at all. Thanks man. New feature to add to my rig :)
Wow, I didn't think I'd notice that much, but even on the video with the compression etc, you can hear so many more harmonics on the 8 string. Huge difference - the down-pitch sounds really muddy in comparison!
It lacks a bit of resonance because of the string gauge I think but overall pretty good. I use the digitech drop, so essentially the same but without the whammy, and for drop C, B, A it's really good and so convenient when you have one guitar and don't want to change the whole set up to play one song.
8 string for sure! It had the clearer tone and sounded less digitised, great video man :)
could probably get a closer 8 string brightness and clarity with the use of an EQ pedal and pickups. it still sounded great.
I use a Whammy DT. It does sound muddier but it's essentially an 8 string on a budget pedal so I'm happy.
To me the 8 string was much clearer and more responsive. It would be interesting though, to hear the two in stereo. See if there are any phase issues due to the slight latency?? 🤔
Dope video all in all! 🤘🤘
The digitech drop is impeccable. I like using my Variax for drop tuning, though
That's actually a really neat sound. Definitely worth a shot if you don't have the money to sink into a good 8 string. The main difference I'm hearing is the string tensions, with the real 8th string, it has more body and punch, very broad. The digi Downtune sounds tighter, but less aggressive. The main issue I'm wondering, which wasn't covered here, is how do the upper strings sound? I've always had an issue with a digital sound when it came to using the high E, but really, I was never using a Digitech Whammy.
I have an 8 string tuned to drop E and a 7 string tuned to drop A, but I prefer the 7 string pitch shifted* to drop E. Mainly because I find the 7 string more comfortable to play, but also because I find it easier to tremolo pick the lighter gauge without it getting floppy (I tremolo pick A LOT), and the distortion stands out more. Both sound good in their own ways though.
* I use a pitch shifter plugin, though a pedal would be nice, but I have limited funds
Always wondered how they would compare ! Sounds better than I thought ! 8 string is still better but whammy certainly does the job!
Out of all the guitar channel dudes, this guy has the best riffage
the music is insane!!!!!! pure genius