Good video! I always hate the mind set people have that you "HAVE" to use all of the strings if you have an extended range guitar. How many songs can you think of that use every octave available on a keyboard? Isn't that equivalent to saying "Why do you have a full range keyboard, you only use X octaves it's so dumb." Maybe that's just me though.
i am beginner at guitar playing and i got 8 string as second guitar just for playing DOOM OST (after watching your videos thanks a lot for them!!). its not multiscale so i use my 6string to play regular things and 8 string for DUH-JENT xD
If you've ever tried to tune a guitar to bass tuning, you will know that longer scale gives a brighter, more defined tone due to increased string tension. The low pitch of the note has nothing to do with the brightness of the timbre. You are confusing the two.
Of course downtuning a 6 strings is like using an 8 strings without the higher strings. The difference can only be in the pickups and the tuning/tension ratio (considering the scale), and looks like your 6 strings guitar has darker pickups. My Bill Lawrence XL on a 6 strings sounds ok for low tuning, while my LP custom can't go lower than drop C, otherwise it sounds like a bucket of mud :)
I think the people who say you should just tune down instead of buying an 8 string because you don't use the higher strings are assuming 8 string guitarists only play the lowest notes with would all be available on a 6 string tuned to F#
Would be VERY interesting to have this same comparison with 2 sets of identical Fishmans. Would even out the playing-field, since they're so consistent
venom666 that can be fixed with a baritone, the Squire Baritone Jazz master has a 30'' scale, the Ibanez RGIB6 and Chapman ML1 Baritone have 28'' scales.
I have both a 6- and a 7-string guitar and I can't wrap my tiny fingers around the 7-string fretboard, it just feels clunky, bulky and unfamiliar.. Guess I'll have to stick to the standard and just have one 6-string for standard tuning stuff and another for lower tunings.. :P
Yeah man, JB is a great all around pickup but it does have it's limits. I've found that drop C is about as low as you can go without drowning in mud. Killer riffs & killer video, Pete! Thanks!
No doubt about the JB man! It's just that it was never meant for such a low tuning and a huge string. JB is the pickup I liked the voicing the most on 6-strings. I wish they'd make one with a similar voicing but adapted for the 8 string :/
Its not that it needs better pickups. Or that the JB is bad. Its just that its not made to play notes that low. Even a shittier pickup, but one designed for those registers would sound better. This was a good idea of a video, with zero control, and a pretty flawed execution.
Pickups, mostly, and a little goes to the shorter scale...but scale is relevant to a point, since the same scale can host different strings with 2 octave difference.
Those things along with most 7 and 8 strings having a longer scale length, for instance my 7 string has a 27.7" scale length compared to my 6 string with a 25.5" scale.
All my guitars have floyds and theyre all in different tunings. It's really not much of a task to retune or setup a floyd. If you have the patience to restring one at all then you're already half way there
I would love to see a test of a 27" scale length baritone 6 string vs a 28" scale length 8 string. I think that would be a more fair comparison. Any thoughts on that Pete?
30" scale would be better. bigger guages with shorter scale lengths do make a difference to brightness, I personally hate going larger unless it's like 90-100+ guages.
One much rarer option that I think deserves a bit of discussion is why not tune to a larger interval instead of adding more strings. By tuning in perfect fifths (F1-C2-G2-D3-A3-E4) one would a full eight-string range on six strings. Tuning in minor sixths (C#1-A1-F2-C#3-A3-F4) would allow a nine-string guitar range on six strings, though would require a modified tuning head and nut. I know of no bands that tune to perfect fifths, let alone to minor sixths, but do find the possibility intriguing nonetheless.
@@BillAllyn There is that issue - it would require playing higher up the fretboard or inverting the chords. Those difficulties notwithstanding, I still believe tuning in wider intervals as a worthwhile alternative and/or comparison with eight- and nine-string guitars.
They're the same, if you use a 6 string baritone with the right pickups you get the same sound, the only downside is less high strings. Depends on your needs.
exactly. and the people who usually think they "need" all those strings never fucking touch them. It just pisses me off for some reason. WHo the fuck would buy a car or something else, with 8 different modes to kick ass and only use like 1-2?
PMTPereira Exactly. the 6 with proper stuff would be perfect for a purely rhythm player that prefers the smaller width and isn't, say, planning on doing much Animals As Leaders stuff.
i know im late but a cool thing to do is to get a reaaaally cheap strat (or tele) and buy it a baritone neck and put a thick sounding pickup in the bridge. some companies make baritone necks for strats, including warmoth who make 28.5 inch scale length replacement necks. they ususally cost no more than 200 bucks
I'm a guitarist for 9 years and I never got the term "muddy", but since people are using that describing the 6 string, I prefer to call that muffled. It sounds muffled.
That's it! I like this! I've never really gotten the muddy thing either. Muffled I get. I'd imagine it's probably a combination of the pickups not being set up for such low frequencies combined with the shorter scale length. It just felt like it was cutting out some of the highs and lows. It was most noticeable to me in the attack. edit: I literally just noticed how old your comment is. :) Didn't mean to resurrect the dead.
That's also because the 8 string has ACTIVE pickups which balance better on low tunings and are more scooped... not every passive pickup will sound good with low tunings, active more likely :-)
+Jaka Mori Well, I'm not a pickup designer so you're probably correct but, my experience is kinda opposite of this. The 8 in the video has a BKP Painkiller which is great, it's passive and has a coil tap for extra tones. Actives can work for low tunings but I'd always take a passive for guitar. However, for bass I think active pickups as preamps are genarally superior, I'd love a set of EMG Bass pickups :)
oops my bad :D i presumed they were active, as most 7 or 8 strings come loaded with active pickups... although i also prefer passive pickups in general but they must be specific, especially for metal, because the passives are more likely to sound like s*** when distorted and low tuned and actives are basically made for higher output and most of the time they work best on high gain settings. Actives also tend to have a more even frequency response and higher dynamic range, but a really good passive pickup will always be better as it will sound more natural. But active preamp is a must on a bass as you said :P
It would probably sound less muddy but still muddier than the 8 string, after all baritones are usually tuned to B standard so it would be the equivalent of tuning a regular 6 string to B standard
@@Wind-nj5xz most 8 strings are baritones.... Usually 28 inch... to compensate for its standard tuning with the low f# *facepalm* multiscales are a different story. And most intended baritones that go as low as what would be considered (double drop e in terms of voicing for a 6 string) are 30inch... why do you think mysugahhhh uses 30.3inch? :^) To be in the bassists way. Duh.
So about two years ago, I did take a regular 6 string and drop it a whole octave and it turned out better than this. I had to put a fucking .080 gauge string for the low E (I dropped it a whole octave from standard so it was the same notes and intervals but in a lower register) and have it professionally re-set up but it's a joy to play and it sounds like a beast. The only issue was that if I tried to tune any lower, say drop D, just lowering the low E string one step, it wouldn't hold the tune well. But the action was still fine, it didn't play any worse than it did up in standard or milder drop tunings. I think the voicing of the pickups make a significant difference in how well it works. The Ibanez I did this to I'd put the Zakk Wylde EMG set in years earlier (back when I was only in Drop-A) and it was definitely voiced for lower tunings like that, which was the main reason I went with those pickups in the first place. Even in your video I didn't think the difference was terribly profound. the 8 string was marginally beefier and more articulate but if you'd fiddled with the effects chain a little I think you could have gotten an equally good tone out of the six. Now, because I haven't played that guitar I can't speak as to how it feels to play, but on mine I didn't have any issues. And I'm not even a particularly good guitarist, my picking technique is kind of awful really, so if I can do it, people more skilled than me should certainly be able to.
The reason I did what I did was precisely the reason you stated in the beginning, I didn't want the extra strings, I hate playing 8 strings because either the neck is way too fucking wide or the strings are way too fucking close together; I just wanted the Djenty Tone. Plus I didn't have the money to buy another guitar. Everyone told me I was crazy and it wouldn't work, but I went ahead and did it anyway and it worked just fine.
How has the downtuned 6string held up over the years? Currently experimenting with converting a 25.5" Strat into a downtowned instrument using the following string guages: .017, .026, .036, .046, .064, .08. Is there a specific bridge system you found worked best for this application?
Man, that was f'in unreal- just wicked- I have been on the fence about jumping to an 8 but that sold me 1000%- totally awesome playing, now I am stoked about the 8 string
an 8-string just looks more impressive. that's already reason enough to use an 8 instead of a downtuned 6-string. Would love to see you play a 9-string Pete. Keep playing music! :D
Geez. you're just throwing out these ridiculous awesome demo riffs while I'd be happy if i could come up with one of these riffs once in my life. Instant subscription ...god those riffs :O
I like the sound of the open F# on the 6-string better than on the 8-string. The 8-string open F# has that compressed sound you hear so often with these things. But other than that, the 8-string sounded better.
If you take the normal 6 string bass then you won't get another lower string. I mean, technically you CAN put another lower string in there, but this kind of stuff is so scarce and is barely used even in the really low tuning some bands use. For example Beyond Creation have 2 8 string guitars and they tune down a step (at least that's what I believe), and the bass player has a 6 string and he just down tunes the B to an A. Usually there isn't a need for another lower string since at that point it becomes the muddiest piece of garbage ever.
There are even 7 String Basses using even 2 lower strings and one higher. Examples for people/bands playing such basses: - The bassist Linus Klausenitzer: Mostly known as the bassist of Obscura, but playing aswell in other bands like Alkaloid and Noneuclid. - Veil Of Maya
You made some really good points with this video . Especially considering most player that have an 8 string have 5 strings they never touch anyway . We have players like Scott Ian and Max Cavalera who only have 4 string guitars . You got the right idea to simply set the 6 string as a baritone !
I'd be willing to bet a longer scale 6 with lighter strings would have killed in this test, but it seems like an awful lot of effort to go through to set something like that up when you can just buy an 8 that's already designed for it. By the way, I took the plunge and ended up throwing a JB/Jazz set in my PRS on your recommendation from the video you made a while back, and they sound INCREDIBLE. Love your videos, man. Keep up the good work.
Another proxy for this is Meshuggah - Nothing vs. its remastered version for a downtuned 7 string vs. 8 string comparison. Original recording used downtuned 7 strings, and has a much less refined sound than the remastered version with 8 strings. Personally I prefer the original though, love its rawness
I've been wondering this the past week. Thank you for this. If I still wanted to have 6 strings but also wanted to play down to F#, can I buy a 6 string guitar that has extended scale length and the appropriate pickups and have it sound as good as an 8 string guitar?
yes, the string count doesn't physically affect the sound/tone but 8 string guitars are made with the tuning in mind so you would need similar components in a 6 string to get the same sound/tone
being a pre melenial elitist I just don't find eight strings heavy unless it's meshuggah , I find real skill in making a six string in standard tuning sound heavy .
Like Opeth! The songs are Standart tuning and heavy as fuck! => Maybe they are using their bassist correctly, and not render him pretty much useless, by going to the brown note as a guitarist.
Probably it's not my style, 7 strings is max for me, more strings... no sense, especially many of those people who use 8 string guitars don't use more than 3-4 strings, what's the point? Mostly 0-1-00000-1-000 ;), I don't hear good melodies. Sorry guys, probably I'm old ;)
If you can only find 8 string guitarists who 0-1010-0-0000 etc. then you clearly aren't searching very hard. But yes, typically wankstains just buy the 8 for the lows and forget about the other strings. Sh.
After hearing what 9 strings sound like i think 8 is the max amount of strings any guitar should feasibly have. Also you could just like tune down a 7 string a little and it would probably have a similar effect.
@@JMetalGuitarist Yeah the only way I could see a 9 string really being feasible is if you tuned it like an 8 string and added a high a. Any lower and youre stepping on the bass players toes hahah
The 8 is far clearer with better tonal definition and of course more octaves! Dude if it wasn't for you I'd have never picked up an 8 string, it didn't take long to pick up(pun intended) and opened up a whole new world for me I went from 6 to 7 string and was like yup this is cool man but bro when I went to an 8 it was like HELL YEAH I was meant for this! Thanks heaps for your insightful vids and most of all your wicked music love you style bro don't ever stop!!🤘
I like it. I actually really appreciate that you didn't use a baritone 6 string. Or really a 6 string that was meant for such low tunings. The argument that I always hear is why not just down tune your CURRENT 6 string. If I already had a baritone 6, then I'm sure it could sound as good. But if I have to go get another guitar for the tuning, why not just get the 8 in case I decide to use all the strings.
Fuck 7 to 10 string guitars! In my opinion those are overrated. I'll have my 6 string baritone Skervesen. No tuning problem, no muddy sound, metal as fuck.
Great teaching man. Guys you can switch to BARITONE guitars in case u want comfort of 6 string but low string. I have a 7 string and plays ok on drop A. on 6 string we cant barely get to drop C because scale and tuning issues.
Thanks for doing this video and with the kind of extremes at each end of the spectrum. I think my biggest surprise and takeaway is that the 6 string sounded dull on the lowest notes and the lowest string, but was more comparable on the other strings and notes above B1. I've been really struggling to find a balance I'm happy with on a sole 8 string guitar for a couple of years now. I love the idea of having that much range at my disposal on a single instrument, but I'm really starting to lean more towards a standard 6 string and a baritone 6 string or maybe 7 with a 28"+ scale. I write and record almost exclusively, so I think writing for two instruments that I can control the tone and timbre of individually may be better for me. This video is very helpful.
I would love to hear this done with matching guitars to take out more variables. The variables here are wood, scale, pickups, strings, almost everything is a variable and different between the two. The 8 clearly has way more punch and clarity so it would be cool to see what it would sound like with some of these variables taken out.
I think some of the other guys in the comments have also mentioned this but it would be nice to get a set of specs for both guitars. I.E.- scale length, pickup type, wood type in the neck/body, bridge/nut materials, estimated difference in string tension (after all different tunings), and even price. There are a LOT of variables, and while I agree the 8-string does sound much more dynamic and clear I (personally) would like to have a more informed opinion. And of course low tunings do benefit from a baritone guitar much more than a standard set-up. Killer riffs and editing btw!
I feel like the overall string tension across the guitar, specifically the neck, starts to change the way the guitar develops tone, as well (not to mention overall mass of the neck, headstock, increased surface area of the neck pocket, etc)
Interesting idea for testing - it's one of those differences that is at the same time subtle but very significant! Starting to realise how much I like that longer-scale-length skronkiness...
8 strings feel so much better on my large hands and the extra tuning variations can make different cool sounds that a standard 6, just cant do. love the 8s! also love using the two lows for slapping bass notes
Hey Pete. I like most everything you do but, man, the 8 string really seems to bring out the best in you and your guitar style. This song is amazing and thanks for doing this comparison. Hope to see more goodness on the 8 from you in the future.
Even though this vid is meant to show that the 6-string sounds dull in comparison to the 8 string, u manage to make the 6-string sound killer as well haha. Sick video! :)
Well to be fair, 8 string guitars have pickups that are designed to get to those really low tunings. Not all 6 string pickups sound that good when tuned low. Also. People likt the complete standard tuning, so they just add 1 or 2 strings to get to the lower sounds. I can see why, but it's not my thing. I just keep playing my 6 strings and just downtune.
I'm glad you explained. I was wondering if it was scale length, because aside from that, there should be no difference if you beefed up the string gauge? Right? Proper size string tuned to the same thing should be the same if the scale length is the same? Barring pickup differences.
pete you are great man! i think the 8 string sounds tighter(because of the scale length and the pickups), but it works on 6 sting guitars, for somewone who plays not very much on this deep tunings...
I've seen you in Riff Wars, Shred Wars, and Ultimate Shred Song but this is the first time watching your channel and the British accent threw me a curveball haha it was cool
I'm not really a clear tone freak when it comes to distortion, so the 6 with 8 string set sounded really boss. could fit in really down tuned sludge metal.
I've gone as low as Drop G on my 6-string using strings meant for a 7-string and having it still sounding relatively good. Anything lower for me requires thicker strings. The difference is that 7-8 stringed guitars are made and customized for the tunings. To be completely honest, if you custom make your bridge to sit this way \ so the top string has more tension on it and is tighter because the distance compared to a normal bridge is increased by as much as a quarter of an inch. (probably extremely wrong here.) and customizing your neck to fit the "fit" better with the bridge and eliminate any possible neck tension issues (which I don't think would be really too big of an issue, who knows? I'm not a luthier, the issue probably doesn't exist at all.) I guess what I'm trying to say is a multiscale guitar is pretty damn good if you can get your hands on one. However, I am debating on buying myself a 7-string sometime this year.
Thank you for this. I understand down tuning isn't for everyone and a 7+ string isn't for everyone. But for crying out loud, stop making fun of people who do like those things. This is a wonderful illustration on WHY it is good to not down tune... much.
You need an extended range 6 string for a proper comparison. That 8 string has a 27" scale neck where as your 6 string is only 25.5". But, in reality its probably easier to find a 27" 7 string guitar. My advice. If you plan on tuning to B or A and you don't do much soloing, a 26.5" 6 string will be just fine. A 25.5" 6 string could work too, but you'll need slightly thicker strings for similar tension. I personally use 12 - 54 for B - standard. If you plan on tuning to F# and again don't do much soloing, a 27" 7 string will do the job. 11 - 68 gauge 7 string set is probably a good starting point.
Hey! I like your channel. I am an old guitar player in a young band. I've played only six string guitars in my life. So it was quite a challenge to adapt to the seven string thing the other guitar player plays. Nevertheless I still play six strings but I had to change the amp sound to match the setup I now have. I changed to a set of 12/54 and play B flat. No problem. My amp is works fine with it. So it can be done with a few alterations. Sound wise it doesn't make a lot of difference. Greetings from Holland. Edit #1: Oh and by the way, almost all my guitars have a Floyd Rose system 😈 Edit #2: I now see that I didn't get my facts straight..... Eight string guitars are tuned to low E or G, my mistake. I thought that B was low. Alright I admit thats a lot lower so I can't compare my setup to that of a eight string guitar.
the pickups in the 8 string are voiced for the low tunings, whereas the pickups in the 6 strings are voiced for tunings near the normal E standard, and if what I heard was true that they are indeed JBs then that is entirely your problem. Then again, this is something you should consider is that the stock pickups are voiced for what the guitar is made for. The tuning stability on the other hand is why we have baritones.
I quite like the sound of both of them tbh. I love the clarity of the 8 string but I do love the gritty sound of the 6. I do agree with one argument, for just djenty stuff, I'd probably tune my 6 down with a beefy string gauge but for super flashy, clean, kind of Rob Scallon stuff, I'd probably get an 8
I preferred the sound of the 6 string one actually. I think when you play that low having a darker tone can be better. The brighter sound of the 8 string has some pretty jarring sounding high frequencies when playing the few lowest notes.
I got an 8 string because I wanted more range so I could play guitar and bass parts at the same time. I usually slap the bass strings while strumming chords in between, and alternate with the inverse. That way I can lead with either part while backing it with the other.
I have been basically asking myself this question for years and have even debated it with a few people, and this video has basically proved what I suspected. There really is not much of a difference, scale length and pickups being about the only thing. I'd say it's more about the pickups here then scale length.. I think the most important thing video shows is that you shouldn't let not having a seven or eight string guitar stop you from learning songs that are played on them. You can lower the tuning on your six string and learn or play most anything played on a eight or seven string guitar.
other dependent variables~ Type of pickups and also types of wood in the guitars. These can totally differ your tone, so maybe if it were an 8 and 6 string of the same guitar specs It'd make more sense to do this. Plus the extra wood in the neck will pronounce voicings a LITTLE more. Good idea though
I took an Ibanez with DiMarzio pickups down to B (i.e. "standard" spread, but starting at low B). I used 12 to 60 NY XL, and it sounds and plays great. The trem is happy too. Tension seems really close to a 9 to 42 set running standard tuning. For F# though, you'd need a longer scale I think.
This is what I've noticed so far. The 8 string sounds more clear because of the strings. It's low strings are thicker granting it that powerful punch it needs for it's own clarity in those low riffs. The higher riffs sound clear as well because the strings are thinner allowing the notes to shine through in the mix. The 6 string sounds muddy because it needed thicker strings for the low tuning. Surprisingly the chords still sounded great on the 6 string but all of the higher riffage going on was just too muddy sounding. The low end on the 6 string did sound nice although it was still a little bit clearly and more distinct on the 8 string. Final verdict? I would say don't tune too low on a 6 string and just get an 8 string guitar if you really want to play that low.
I think the 6 string sounded better, but I'll listen it again when I have my in-ear monitors at hand... Until then, keep up the good work! Thumbs up!!!
I would love to hear this with both playing together, with the 6 at a slightly lower volume, that muddy tone sounds like it could work well as Background for the rhythm parts
What's a 6 string?
Rob Scallon it's a grandpa's guitar. For pussies and grandpa.
kids these days, i tells ya
Rob Scallon A wild Rob Scallon appeared
Wil HAHAHAHAHA THATS FUCKING FUNNY M8
One of those things you have a signature version of.
Killer riffage and interesting video! Go Pete!
You ever thought of getting an 8 string guitar? Because part of me is thinking that you might not be use to playing it.
Frog Leap Studios Please get an 8 string! 😁
+Frog Leap Studios Thanks for watching dude! :) \m/
pleaseee an 8 string
Leo!!
Good video! I always hate the mind set people have that you "HAVE" to use all of the strings if you have an extended range guitar. How many songs can you think of that use every octave available on a keyboard? Isn't that equivalent to saying "Why do you have a full range keyboard, you only use X octaves it's so dumb." Maybe that's just me though.
I think most people who have a keyboard use all the octaves, but it's not like every 8 string guitarist only uses the lower notes either
i am beginner at guitar playing and i got 8 string as second guitar just for playing DOOM OST (after watching your videos thanks a lot for them!!). its not multiscale so i use my 6string to play regular things and 8 string for DUH-JENT xD
@@karlvareze8337 How not being a multiscale makes a difference? Just curious. :)
@@DANKZI its difficult to play chords on 28 scale)
@@karlvareze8337 Aah okay, thats what you meant.
8 string is brighter and more defined, as to be expected with longer scale.
Having a Painkiller in the eight versus the JB in the six probably helps too...
Yeah...the longer scale makes it "brighter"...that's why a bass guitar is known for it's "brightness"...
Servo Dav Well, the longer scale allows for thinner (and thus brighter sounding) strings to be used for the same tension and tuning
If you've ever tried to tune a guitar to bass tuning, you will know that longer scale gives a brighter, more defined tone due to increased string tension. The low pitch of the note has nothing to do with the brightness of the timbre. You are confusing the two.
Also, the Duncans in the 6 string are more midrange heavy and have a muddier sound.
Of course downtuning a 6 strings is like using an 8 strings without the higher strings.
The difference can only be in the pickups and the tuning/tension ratio (considering the scale), and looks like your 6 strings guitar has darker pickups.
My Bill Lawrence XL on a 6 strings sounds ok for low tuning, while my LP custom can't go lower than drop C, otherwise it sounds like a bucket of mud :)
ahhh bill xl, I miss that humbucker. best pickup I ever used for crystal-clear high gain
I think the people who say you should just tune down instead of buying an 8 string because you don't use the higher strings are assuming 8 string guitarists only play the lowest notes with would all be available on a 6 string tuned to F#
@@Wind-nj5xz
Which is true 99% of the time.
Guai a te Cristianarte!
Cristianarte guai a te!
Would be VERY interesting to have this same comparison with 2 sets of identical Fishmans. Would even out the playing-field, since they're so consistent
The 8 strings sound really clearer, I don't know if the differences in sound comes from the pickups though....
Great song in any case!!
8 string guitars have longer neck, that helps a lot with the deeper sounds :)
venom666 that can be fixed with a baritone, the Squire Baritone Jazz master has a 30'' scale, the Ibanez RGIB6 and Chapman ML1 Baritone have 28'' scales.
8 string honked more
I have a 6 string in Drop A right now and it just makes me want a 7 string, not for tonal reasons, I just miss my high E.
The10000lbGorilla same
The10000lbGorilla i have mine at drop E#
That's why I'm getting a 7. In drop A I can play deathcore, then I can also play everything else since the first 6 strings are in standard tuning.
Whammy DT might be some solution, to use +5 semitone pitch for solos.
I have both a 6- and a 7-string guitar and I can't wrap my tiny fingers around the 7-string fretboard, it just feels clunky, bulky and unfamiliar.. Guess I'll have to stick to the standard and just have one 6-string for standard tuning stuff and another for lower tunings.. :P
OMG the 6-string is muddy as hell. It would definetly benefit from better pickups to get the clarity out there.
Great vid as always
Thanks! It's the huge string on the tiny guitar causing most of the muddiness. JB is a killer pickup for most applications though :)
Yeah man, JB is a great all around pickup but it does have it's limits. I've found that drop C is about as low as you can go without drowning in mud. Killer riffs & killer video, Pete! Thanks!
No doubt about the JB man! It's just that it was never meant for such a low tuning and a huge string. JB is the pickup I liked the voicing the most on 6-strings. I wish they'd make one with a similar voicing but adapted for the 8 string :/
IrontMesdent I think its more to do with the scale length. Thicker strings require more tension to sound good
Its not that it needs better pickups. Or that the JB is bad. Its just that its not made to play notes that low. Even a shittier pickup, but one designed for those registers would sound better. This was a good idea of a video, with zero control, and a pretty flawed execution.
How dare you tune a 6 string that low!!!
+Robert Baker How else am I going to Djent? \m/
Can I just say that this is my favorite song you've written so far. I loved it!
Thanks Dan! :)
Pete Cottrell keep up the great work dude :)
Does this song have a name? Those riffs sound like they crawled out of a sludge-ridden grimehole full of pure putridity!
Ditto
I guess the song name is a secret.
The 6 string sounds a bit muddier. Is this due to the pickups? Scale length? Doesn't Carcass tune 6 strings to B standard?
I was going to comment the same thing. I believe that yeah it's both scale length and pickups.
as u said, pickups and scale length. many hardcore bands just use 6 string guitar and tune them down to dropped c oder even dropped B.
B standard on a six isn't as drastic as F standard.
Oh yeah, an 8 string has that low F#. Woops.
Pickups, mostly, and a little goes to the shorter scale...but scale is relevant to a point, since the same scale can host different strings with 2 octave difference.
For my hearing, it's more clear on the 8 string guitar.
thats what better pick ups will do for ANY guitar
@@DrMurdercock pick ups and string gauge
Those things along with most 7 and 8 strings having a longer scale length, for instance my 7 string has a 27.7" scale length compared to my 6 string with a 25.5" scale.
Its the twang thats missing from the 6 string.
Yea the 8 string it s snappier
Great idea Pete, and fucking sick riffs too hehe
+66Samus Cheers buddy! :)
Hell no am I gonna downtune a floyd rose system.
it can be done. just takes some trial and error and a lot of knoweldge on set ups, fuck my tping today
All my guitars have floyds and theyre all in different tunings. It's really not much of a task to retune or setup a floyd. If you have the patience to restring one at all then you're already half way there
my edge zero holds it perfectly
Go to Ben Eller's Channel, and watch every single one of his videos until you come across the one needed
EZ Assegai 🤘
I would love to see a test of a 27" scale length baritone 6 string vs a 28" scale length 8 string. I think that would be a more fair comparison. Any thoughts on that Pete?
I agree, I think that it would basically work better.
30" scale would be better. bigger guages with shorter scale lengths do make a difference to brightness, I personally hate going larger unless it's like 90-100+ guages.
I can listen to your riffs all day long bro, awesome.
One much rarer option that I think deserves a bit of discussion is why not tune to a larger interval instead of adding more strings.
By tuning in perfect fifths (F1-C2-G2-D3-A3-E4) one would a full eight-string range on six strings. Tuning in minor sixths (C#1-A1-F2-C#3-A3-F4) would allow a nine-string guitar range on six strings, though would require a modified tuning head and nut. I know of no bands that tune to perfect fifths, let alone to minor sixths, but do find the possibility intriguing nonetheless.
I think it would make it hard to play chords.
new standard tuning
@@BillAllyn There is that issue - it would require playing higher up the fretboard or inverting the chords. Those difficulties notwithstanding, I still believe tuning in wider intervals as a worthwhile alternative and/or comparison with eight- and nine-string guitars.
They're the same, if you use a 6 string baritone with the right pickups you get the same sound, the only downside is less high strings. Depends on your needs.
exactly. and the people who usually think they "need" all those strings never fucking touch them. It just pisses me off for some reason.
WHo the fuck would buy a car or something else, with 8 different modes to kick ass and only use like 1-2?
+jonny j eeeexactly. Don't buy exotic sports cars if you don't live in Western Europe
PMTPereira
A baritone is pretty much an 8 string with two less high strinfs
PMTPereira Exactly. the 6 with proper stuff would be perfect for a purely rhythm player that prefers the smaller width and isn't, say, planning on doing much Animals As Leaders stuff.
i know im late but a cool thing to do is to get a reaaaally cheap strat (or tele) and buy it a baritone neck and put a thick sounding pickup in the bridge. some companies make baritone necks for strats, including warmoth who make 28.5 inch scale length replacement necks. they ususally cost no more than 200 bucks
I'm a guitarist for 9 years and I never got the term "muddy", but since people are using that describing the 6 string, I prefer to call that muffled. It sounds muffled.
That's it! I like this! I've never really gotten the muddy thing either. Muffled I get. I'd imagine it's probably a combination of the pickups not being set up for such low frequencies combined with the shorter scale length. It just felt like it was cutting out some of the highs and lows. It was most noticeable to me in the attack.
edit: I literally just noticed how old your comment is. :) Didn't mean to resurrect the dead.
muddy = low end mud
seriously, how do you blow my mind every time with these juicy riffs...
the 6 string sounded a little muddier.
also...8 string guitars look cooler ;)
8 strings guitars look like a vertical table, all I can see is dishes and glasses dropping.
Perhaps due to the difference in pickups, but 8 strings had more of "scooped" tone. 6 strings had more mids.
That's also because the 8 string has ACTIVE pickups which balance better on low tunings and are more scooped... not every passive pickup will sound good with low tunings, active more likely :-)
+Jaka Mori Well, I'm not a pickup designer so you're probably correct but, my experience is kinda opposite of this. The 8 in the video has a BKP Painkiller which is great, it's passive and has a coil tap for extra tones. Actives can work for low tunings but I'd always take a passive for guitar. However, for bass I think active pickups as preamps are genarally superior, I'd love a set of EMG Bass pickups :)
oops my bad :D i presumed they were active, as most 7 or 8 strings come loaded with active pickups... although i also prefer passive pickups in general but they must be specific, especially for metal, because the passives are more likely to sound like s*** when distorted and low tuned and actives are basically made for higher output and most of the time they work best on high gain settings. Actives also tend to have a more even frequency response and higher dynamic range, but a really good passive pickup will always be better as it will sound more natural. But active preamp is a must on a bass as you said :P
WHAT ABOUT BARITONE GUITARS
It would probably sound less muddy but still muddier than the 8 string, after all baritones are usually tuned to B standard so it would be the equivalent of tuning a regular 6 string to B standard
@@Wind-nj5xz most 8 strings are baritones.... Usually 28 inch... to compensate for its standard tuning with the low f# *facepalm* multiscales are a different story.
And most intended baritones that go as low as what would be considered (double drop e in terms of voicing for a 6 string) are 30inch... why do you think mysugahhhh uses 30.3inch? :^)
To be in the bassists way. Duh.
So about two years ago, I did take a regular 6 string and drop it a whole octave and it turned out better than this. I had to put a fucking .080 gauge string for the low E (I dropped it a whole octave from standard so it was the same notes and intervals but in a lower register) and have it professionally re-set up but it's a joy to play and it sounds like a beast. The only issue was that if I tried to tune any lower, say drop D, just lowering the low E string one step, it wouldn't hold the tune well. But the action was still fine, it didn't play any worse than it did up in standard or milder drop tunings.
I think the voicing of the pickups make a significant difference in how well it works. The Ibanez I did this to I'd put the Zakk Wylde EMG set in years earlier (back when I was only in Drop-A) and it was definitely voiced for lower tunings like that, which was the main reason I went with those pickups in the first place.
Even in your video I didn't think the difference was terribly profound. the 8 string was marginally beefier and more articulate but if you'd fiddled with the effects chain a little I think you could have gotten an equally good tone out of the six. Now, because I haven't played that guitar I can't speak as to how it feels to play, but on mine I didn't have any issues.
And I'm not even a particularly good guitarist, my picking technique is kind of awful really, so if I can do it, people more skilled than me should certainly be able to.
The reason I did what I did was precisely the reason you stated in the beginning, I didn't want the extra strings, I hate playing 8 strings because either the neck is way too fucking wide or the strings are way too fucking close together; I just wanted the Djenty Tone. Plus I didn't have the money to buy another guitar. Everyone told me I was crazy and it wouldn't work, but I went ahead and did it anyway and it worked just fine.
+Lord Hedon wow you basically made a tenor 6 string bass and about 2/3 the scale length
How has the downtuned 6string held up over the years? Currently experimenting with converting a 25.5" Strat into a downtowned instrument using the following string guages: .017, .026, .036, .046, .064, .08. Is there a specific bridge system you found worked best for this application?
That breakdown was absolutely freaking amazing
great video and song!
+Josh Steffen Thanks Josh! :)
Please more of these experiments! Not only are they interesting to see the results of, but man, the songs you use for them are just killer.
The 8 is beefier and and all around sounds better
It's also much more defined.
Man, that was f'in unreal- just wicked- I have been on the fence about jumping to an 8 but that sold me 1000%- totally awesome playing, now I am stoked about the 8 string
That 8 String Sound was goddamn beautiful
Even 5 years later, still one of my favorite guitar grooves!
an 8-string just looks more impressive. that's already reason enough to use an 8 instead of a downtuned 6-string. Would love to see you play a 9-string Pete. Keep playing music! :D
Geez. you're just throwing out these ridiculous awesome demo riffs while I'd be happy if i could come up with one of these riffs once in my life. Instant subscription
...god those riffs :O
Now try the experiment with two guitars that have the same pickups.
Never.
Too bad a 6 string and an 8 string version of the same pickup will never really sound the same.
thiss is soo beautiful...had an eargasm in the morning....thanks pete
6 String doesn't sound as bright and sounds a bit muffled to me.
Wicked vid dude! :D
I like the sound of the open F# on the 6-string better than on the 8-string. The 8-string open F# has that compressed sound you hear so often with these things. But other than that, the 8-string sounded better.
How about to compare 4 sting\5 string\6 string basses ability on a down tune?
good idea! although i think this would work far better than with guitars
If you take the normal 6 string bass then you won't get another lower string.
I mean, technically you CAN put another lower string in there, but this kind of stuff is so scarce and is barely used even in the really low tuning some bands use.
For example Beyond Creation have 2 8 string guitars and they tune down a step (at least that's what I believe), and the bass player has a 6 string and he just down tunes the B to an A.
Usually there isn't a need for another lower string since at that point it becomes the muddiest piece of garbage ever.
There are even 7 String Basses using even 2 lower strings and one higher. Examples for people/bands playing such basses:
- The bassist Linus Klausenitzer: Mostly known as the bassist of Obscura, but playing aswell in other bands like Alkaloid and Noneuclid.
- Veil Of Maya
I saw Linus has a 7 string, but I'm pretty sure it's not 2 lower strings. It's the added lower B, a high C, and probably some F# or something...
+Martyr of Grenth I've heard anything below the 5th string B of a bass will be completely useless because it's too low for our ears
This sounds amazing. I personally think both sound similar and are great
Good Vid - Much Better then Fluff's Vids
You made some really good points with this video . Especially considering most player that have an 8 string have 5 strings they never touch anyway . We have players like Scott Ian and Max Cavalera who only have 4 string guitars . You got the right idea to simply set the 6 string as a baritone !
is there an only 8 sting version of this? its a really cool song
Yeah! I can definitely notice the tribute to Toska's Chalk Teeth in the powerchord section! Nice!
IMO, it sounds much heavier and beefier on the 6 string.
I'd be willing to bet a longer scale 6 with lighter strings would have killed in this test, but it seems like an awful lot of effort to go through to set something like that up when you can just buy an 8 that's already designed for it. By the way, I took the plunge and ended up throwing a JB/Jazz set in my PRS on your recommendation from the video you made a while back, and they sound INCREDIBLE. Love your videos, man. Keep up the good work.
8 is definitely more clear.
Another proxy for this is Meshuggah - Nothing vs. its remastered version for a downtuned 7 string vs. 8 string comparison. Original recording used downtuned 7 strings, and has a much less refined sound than the remastered version with 8 strings. Personally I prefer the original though, love its rawness
I've been wondering this the past week. Thank you for this.
If I still wanted to have 6 strings but also wanted to play down to F#, can I buy a 6 string guitar that has extended scale length and the appropriate pickups and have it sound as good as an 8 string guitar?
yes, the string count doesn't physically affect the sound/tone
but 8 string guitars are made with the tuning in mind so you would need similar components in a 6 string to get the same sound/tone
Vozella dude get a baritone guitar, they hav 6 string, longer scale lengths, and ur supposed to have heavy gauge strings on them
Thanks for telling me about them.
Yea np
Nice comparison, but the best part for me was the song. Those riffs are amazing 🔥🔥 Very inspiring 💪😀
being a pre melenial elitist I just don't find eight strings heavy unless it's meshuggah , I find real skill in making a six string in standard tuning sound heavy .
William Stanway you should check out sonic syndicate, they use standard and sound super heavy!
Like Opeth! The songs are Standart tuning and heavy as fuck! => Maybe they are using their bassist correctly, and not render him pretty much useless, by going to the brown note as a guitarist.
Like all 90s death metal! Or E flat. Some of the heaviest stuff out there.
Finally! I can play Enterprise Earth. I got my hand cut when I was down tuning the strings but I guess it was worth it. Thanks mate
Probably it's not my style, 7 strings is max for me, more strings... no sense, especially many of those people who use 8 string guitars don't use more than 3-4 strings, what's the point? Mostly 0-1-00000-1-000 ;), I don't hear good melodies. Sorry guys, probably I'm old ;)
zielony600
I see just as many 6 string players only using 2 strings to be honest.
yes, you are right. Bth when I see 8-9 srltrings and 1 string in use... lol
If you can only find 8 string guitarists who 0-1010-0-0000 etc. then you clearly aren't searching very hard. But yes, typically wankstains just buy the 8 for the lows and forget about the other strings. Sh.
After hearing what 9 strings sound like i think 8 is the max amount of strings any guitar should feasibly have. Also you could just like tune down a 7 string a little and it would probably have a similar effect.
@@JMetalGuitarist Yeah the only way I could see a 9 string really being feasible is if you tuned it like an 8 string and added a high a. Any lower and youre stepping on the bass players toes hahah
The 8 is far clearer with better tonal definition and of course more octaves! Dude if it wasn't for you I'd have never picked up an 8 string, it didn't take long to pick up(pun intended) and opened up a whole new world for me I went from 6 to 7 string and was like yup this is cool man but bro when I went to an 8 it was like HELL YEAH I was meant for this! Thanks heaps for your insightful vids and most of all your wicked music love you style bro don't ever stop!!🤘
Actually preferred the way the 6th string sounded :/
Me too, sounds meatier than the 8 string.
me too actually
i preferred the 6 string at the start of the song, but the 8 string grew on me by the end.
6 strings for rhythm, 8 strings for lead
Me too
I like it. I actually really appreciate that you didn't use a baritone 6 string. Or really a 6 string that was meant for such low tunings. The argument that I always hear is why not just down tune your CURRENT 6 string. If I already had a baritone 6, then I'm sure it could sound as good. But if I have to go get another guitar for the tuning, why not just get the 8 in case I decide to use all the strings.
Fuck 7 to 10 string guitars! In my opinion those are overrated.
I'll have my 6 string baritone Skervesen. No tuning problem, no muddy sound, metal as fuck.
+Dai Sha But.....but, Meshuggah? Thanks for watching! :)
Dai Sha cool story babe, now go make me a sandwhich.
Did u just assume my gender ?!
Cool. I myself will enjoy all the ranges of guitars and let you live the way you want to live.
+Dai Sha seven strings, you get drop A _and_ your high E string.
7 > 6
I really enjoy videos like this. awesome work Pete
seeing a wound b-string made me chuckle. i get why, but still funny. must've been hell to play, big props, pete.
The 8-string feels powerful and just awesome to play.
Also they are made for darker tuning (baritones) which makes the tune and playability better.
Those riffs are bangin! Very interesting too.
Great teaching man. Guys you can switch to BARITONE guitars in case u want comfort of 6 string but low string.
I have a 7 string and plays ok on drop A. on 6 string we cant barely get to drop C because scale and tuning issues.
Thanks for doing this video and with the kind of extremes at each end of the spectrum. I think my biggest surprise and takeaway is that the 6 string sounded dull on the lowest notes and the lowest string, but was more comparable on the other strings and notes above B1.
I've been really struggling to find a balance I'm happy with on a sole 8 string guitar for a couple of years now. I love the idea of having that much range at my disposal on a single instrument, but I'm really starting to lean more towards a standard 6 string and a baritone 6 string or maybe 7 with a 28"+ scale. I write and record almost exclusively, so I think writing for two instruments that I can control the tone and timbre of individually may be better for me.
This video is very helpful.
I would love to hear this done with matching guitars to take out more variables. The variables here are wood, scale, pickups, strings, almost everything is a variable and different between the two. The 8 clearly has way more punch and clarity so it would be cool to see what it would sound like with some of these variables taken out.
That main riff is so damn juicy. Nice work man. Forgot I was supposed to be comparing the two and got lost in the song lol
I think some of the other guys in the comments have also mentioned this but it would be nice to get a set of specs for both guitars. I.E.- scale length, pickup type, wood type in the neck/body, bridge/nut materials, estimated difference in string tension (after all different tunings), and even price. There are a LOT of variables, and while I agree the 8-string does sound much more dynamic and clear I (personally) would like to have a more informed opinion. And of course low tunings do benefit from a baritone guitar much more than a standard set-up.
Killer riffs and editing btw!
I feel like the overall string tension across the guitar, specifically the neck, starts to change the way the guitar develops tone, as well (not to mention overall mass of the neck, headstock, increased surface area of the neck pocket, etc)
Well I asked myself this question today and YT amazingly recommended it.
Interesting idea for testing - it's one of those differences that is at the same time subtle but very significant! Starting to realise how much I like that longer-scale-length skronkiness...
8 strings feel so much better on my large hands and the extra tuning variations can make different cool sounds that a standard 6, just cant do. love the 8s! also love using the two lows for slapping bass notes
my new favorite Pete Cottrell video
I love the purple BOSS Flanger pedal in the background :)
Hey Pete. I like most everything you do but, man, the 8 string really seems to bring out the best in you and your guitar style. This song is amazing and thanks for doing this comparison. Hope to see more goodness on the 8 from you in the future.
Even though this vid is meant to show that the 6-string sounds dull in comparison to the 8 string, u manage to make the 6-string sound killer as well haha. Sick video! :)
Well to be fair, 8 string guitars have pickups that are designed to get to those really low tunings. Not all 6 string pickups sound that good when tuned low. Also. People likt the complete standard tuning, so they just add 1 or 2 strings to get to the lower sounds. I can see why, but it's not my thing. I just keep playing my 6 strings and just downtune.
that groove is sweet man. Great Video
The difference is clear, the 8 strings really sounds better. Awesome video, as always :)
These riffs are ABSOLUTELY brutal 🤘
I'm glad you explained. I was wondering if it was scale length, because aside from that, there should be no difference if you beefed up the string gauge? Right? Proper size string tuned to the same thing should be the same if the scale length is the same? Barring pickup differences.
pete you are great man! i think the 8 string sounds tighter(because of the scale length and the pickups), but it works on 6 sting guitars, for somewone who plays not very much on this deep tunings...
your amp and cab handle the 8 string very well. the agile is a very underrated instrument.
I've seen you in Riff Wars, Shred Wars, and Ultimate Shred Song but this is the first time watching your channel and the British accent threw me a curveball haha it was cool
+Trey Booher Ha ha thanks! :)
I play my six with a 76 on the bottom, it's killer imo, love the deep mellow sound it has
I'm not really a clear tone freak when it comes to distortion, so the 6 with 8 string set sounded really boss. could fit in really down tuned sludge metal.
I've gone as low as Drop G on my 6-string using strings meant for a 7-string and having it still sounding relatively good. Anything lower for me requires thicker strings. The difference is that 7-8 stringed guitars are made and customized for the tunings.
To be completely honest, if you custom make your bridge to sit this way \ so the top string has more tension on it and is tighter because the distance compared to a normal bridge is increased by as much as a quarter of an inch. (probably extremely wrong here.) and customizing your neck to fit the "fit" better with the bridge and eliminate any possible neck tension issues (which I don't think would be really too big of an issue, who knows? I'm not a luthier, the issue probably doesn't exist at all.)
I guess what I'm trying to say is a multiscale guitar is pretty damn good if you can get your hands on one. However, I am debating on buying myself a 7-string sometime this year.
Thank you for this. I understand down tuning isn't for everyone and a 7+ string isn't for everyone. But for crying out loud, stop making fun of people who do like those things. This is a wonderful illustration on WHY it is good to not down tune... much.
You need an extended range 6 string for a proper comparison. That 8 string has a 27" scale neck where as your 6 string is only 25.5".
But, in reality its probably easier to find a 27" 7 string guitar.
My advice.
If you plan on tuning to B or A and you don't do much soloing, a 26.5" 6 string will be just fine. A 25.5" 6 string could work too, but you'll need slightly thicker strings for similar tension. I personally use 12 - 54 for B - standard.
If you plan on tuning to F# and again don't do much soloing, a 27" 7 string will do the job. 11 - 68 gauge 7 string set is probably a good starting point.
Hey! I like your channel. I am an old guitar player in a young band. I've played only six string guitars in my life. So it was quite a challenge to adapt to the seven string thing the other guitar player plays. Nevertheless I still play six strings but I had to change the amp sound to match the setup I now have. I changed to a set of 12/54 and play B flat. No problem. My amp is works fine with it. So it can be done with a few alterations. Sound wise it doesn't make a lot of difference. Greetings from Holland.
Edit #1: Oh and by the way, almost all my guitars have a Floyd Rose system 😈
Edit #2: I now see that I didn't get my facts straight..... Eight string guitars are tuned to low E or G, my mistake.
I thought that B was low. Alright I admit thats a lot lower so I can't compare my setup to that of a eight string guitar.
i love the crunch that gives the 8 string
the pickups in the 8 string are voiced for the low tunings, whereas the pickups in the 6 strings are voiced for tunings near the normal E standard, and if what I heard was true that they are indeed JBs then that is entirely your problem. Then again, this is something you should consider is that the stock pickups are voiced for what the guitar is made for. The tuning stability on the other hand is why we have baritones.
The riffs !!! So good !
I quite like the sound of both of them tbh. I love the clarity of the 8 string but I do love the gritty sound of the 6. I do agree with one argument, for just djenty stuff, I'd probably tune my 6 down with a beefy string gauge but for super flashy, clean, kind of Rob Scallon stuff, I'd probably get an 8
I preferred the sound of the 6 string one actually. I think when you play that low having a darker tone can be better. The brighter sound of the 8 string has some pretty jarring sounding high frequencies when playing the few lowest notes.
kick ass guitar riffs heavy amazing love your videos pete
I got an 8 string because I wanted more range so I could play guitar and bass parts at the same time. I usually slap the bass strings while strumming chords in between, and alternate with the inverse. That way I can lead with either part while backing it with the other.
I have been basically asking myself this question for years and have even debated it with a few people, and this video has basically proved what I suspected. There really is not much of a difference, scale length and pickups being about the only thing. I'd say it's more about the pickups here then scale length.. I think the most important thing video shows is that you shouldn't let not having a seven or eight string guitar stop you from learning songs that are played on them. You can lower the tuning on your six string and learn or play most anything played on a eight or seven string guitar.
other dependent variables~ Type of pickups and also types of wood in the guitars. These can totally differ your tone, so maybe if it were an 8 and 6 string of the same guitar specs It'd make more sense to do this. Plus the extra wood in the neck will pronounce voicings a LITTLE more. Good idea though
I LOVE YOU SO MUCH PETE!! You're my biggest eight string inspiration
I took an Ibanez with DiMarzio pickups down to B (i.e. "standard" spread, but starting at low B). I used 12 to 60 NY XL, and it sounds and plays great. The trem is happy too. Tension seems really close to a 9 to 42 set running standard tuning. For F# though, you'd need a longer scale I think.
This is what I've noticed so far. The 8 string sounds more clear because of the strings. It's low strings are thicker granting it that powerful punch it needs for it's own clarity in those low riffs. The higher riffs sound clear as well because the strings are thinner allowing the notes to shine through in the mix. The 6 string sounds muddy because it needed thicker strings for the low tuning. Surprisingly the chords still sounded great on the 6 string but all of the higher riffage going on was just too muddy sounding. The low end on the 6 string did sound nice although it was still a little bit clearly and more distinct on the 8 string. Final verdict? I would say don't tune too low on a 6 string and just get an 8 string guitar if you really want to play that low.
I think the 6 string sounded better, but I'll listen it again when I have my in-ear monitors at hand... Until then, keep up the good work! Thumbs up!!!
I would love to hear this with both playing together, with the 6 at a slightly lower volume, that muddy tone sounds like it could work well as Background for the rhythm parts