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Going Second In Yugioh Is Garbage
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 18 มี.ค. 2024
- #duelingwave #yugioh #yugiohproblems #konami
Going second in a game of yugioh is absolutely awful and one of the biggest barriers to new players entering the game. yugioh is the game where losing the dice roll feels worse than any other game becuase of this problem. This game needs a fix with a massive banlist so that it can be more enjoyable.
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I think a big reason decks are in this current state is lack of identity. Like every top deck should have their own interactions and methods of board breaking/recovery. When we print every hand trap as generic staples, it over saturates this area of the deck building process. We basically just have our engine of choice, the same 10-15 staples, and then 1 of like 4 different end boards? Exactly like you said, It's a bandaid for the overarching problem.
Specific decks, should have *specific strengths and weaknesses.* There should be decks that specialize in negates, decks that specialize removal (Actual control lol,) decks that specialize combo/card advantage, or discarding etc etc... But the current state of the game, every single meta deck does everything at the highest level. The top decks are Jacks of all trades, but somehow also the Master of all as well. This bleeds over into the side deck too. There's not many interesting tech cards in a format of homogeneity.
Lastly, I'm glad that you talked about Negating effects, rather than their activation. This is something I've always disliked about modern Yugioh. Why am I getting punished extra when I'm already getting screwed? If my opponent can negate an effect my first turn, there's a near 100% chance they can do it again my next turn. My main TCG these days is FFTCG. They don't have many negates, or "Cancels," but when they do it always cancels activation rather than the effect. They even have a version of Effect Veiler, but removing a cards abilities doesn't negate the effect on the stack. You can *ONLY* cancel the activation. The cards name is "Cúchulainn the Impure."
Love this comment, great analysis 👏🏻
You’re spot on, snake eyes somehow can be a negate deck, a control deck, a combo deck, etc etc, so uncreative, and the only reason it wins is because it’s so overtuned, it feels like a deck from 2 years in the future, like how tear felt.
That is a great point too, feels like other card games are avoiding konamis mistakes, sadly I don’t play any other games because of time so I just have to cope here in the Yugioh community 🤣
I scoop immediately when I see Labrynth or some special summoning spam deck. Least fun decks to play against. Labrynth just annoys you into surrender before you can play a single card on your first turn. Kashtira, Floowandereeze,Labrynth, are just cancer strategies meant to annoy your opponent into submitting
@TheDuelingBeard it's not too late go start other cardgames yet. Specially the simpler, easier to pick up card games. A example would be shadowverse, they're going trough a new era rn and it's a great time to start.
People need to dig their heads out of the meta mindset and start building decks that suit their own personal tastes instead of chasing trends, chasing tournament merit, and playing the same cards most other players choose to use.
Experimentation is key. Rogue decks ftw
@@jesuscortez6047 I once forced a labrynth player to scoop after I used Draco Utopian Aura to steal their key combo piece and stop their entire flow
As a result of this endless power creep loop that Konami created, the player who buys the new stuff (that's DESIGNED to counter the old stuff) will SWEAR that they are more skilled than someone playing the old stuff. This creates people who falsely believe that they have skill. Like, no! Your "skill" is money. You are literally paying to win...
If you are paying for the next solution to the latest problem, what skill do you have? That's like saying you are a skilled fighter because you brought a knife to a fist fight. So then, is your opponent more of a skilled fighter than you because they bought a gun to deal with your knife?
FACTS. I was at the Columbus regional and this exact thing happened to me. I’m playing branded and and I was undefeated through three rounds but then the opponent the next three rounds would win dice roll and play through imperm veiler hands multiple games every round and there we go, x-3…
Dude thinks he was more skilled, nah bro, you just were crazy enough to spend a K on a Yugioh deck that will never return that money for you. Do you lmao 🤣
I think the only way to avoid this is to focus on old formats. That along with boycott product. Which is a sad reality
I’m an OG Yugioh player, and I actually figured this out cause of the anime. I realized Kaiba wasn’t actually skilled, he just had the money to afford super exclusive cards that no one else could get. Must be easy steamrolling 1200-2500 ATK monsters when you have the only 3 Blue Eyes cards in existence. Then I also remember when Mechanicalchaser came out in the TCG and people lost their minds over it cause it was so “powerful”. Nah brah, you didn’t beat my La Jinn with skill, you beat it with a card you got cause you were either super lucky, or rich enough to buy.
Yu-Gi-Oh's big issue has been that since Pendulum era and definitely after Link Era, not only does Konami want us to combo, players just want that too. Decks are evaluated by the players themselves on the basis of how much advantage and disruption it pumps out. Anything less is deemed bad, even if the premise of the deck is interesting on paper. And 10 years of this style has people sort of gaslit into what is good Yu-Gi-Oh. I think this is why people that lived through OG Yu-Gi-Oh and Edison style or even the Xyz era love the old formats so much because it genuinely took a few turns to gather resources for combos. Now the combo is just designed into the decks outright
Also, modern decks seem purposefully designed to avoid punishment for getting hit with a negate. Snake Eyes plays through literally everything to make the same board as if you didn't try to stop it
@@niallocarroll4450When Shaddols came out for the first time, it was a fantastic time for me, when I started using YGOPro. Everything was flaoting and especially both me and my opponent could always return from the brink of loss at any second. The interactions were glorious.
You’re on the money, it feels like Yugioh power creep has gone off the wall in the last five years. Right around secret slayers time.
I miss BA format of 2015 and the ones previous too.
Both your guys comments were spot on
@@TheDuelingBeard it's crazy cos as someone that's played since the start, I've had some of the best and easily worst times with Yu-Gi-Oh in the last year. Like you said in the video, August to arguably December last year was great. I dunno, I love this game so much but it has some deeps flaws that unfortunately Konami have no interest in fixing
@@TheDuelingBeardI wonder if the current fanmade YGO games have now a year of release sorting option, as in excluding newer cards, thus allowing authentic deck building for that format.
Here's my hot take: If Konami doesn't want to stop the power creep train, they need to at least update the core rules so that it matches the reality of the modern game.
Have players who go second draw cards during their Draw Phase equal to the difference between their hand + field and the opponent's hand + field so they can get their board breakers and combo starters to stand a chance more reliably (basically a delayed Maxx "C", but without the issue of needing to draw into Maxx "C" and Maxx "C" being used to stop a player so that the opponent can just overrun them next turn).
Increase the starting LP to something much higher than 8000, so OTKs and FTKs (barring infinite loops) aren't as easy. Decks can easily put out way more than 8000 damage on board without burning themselves out, and this means that if a player is stopped by hand traps or negates or their opening hand is suboptimal, they're not given a chance to recover or make a comeback.
This is crazy! Crazy enough to work. This is what I love in the Yugioh community, that was something I’ve never heard before so bravo
I agree that probably the best out of the box solution to balance the game because of all the power creep is adjust the core game rules instead. I mean that's kind of what Duel Links did by having smaller deck size, field size, and character effects etc. A built in Maxx C effect rule for going second I'm wondering if that might be too good though lol.
Maybe some potential changes could be stuff along the lines of:
1) Player going 2nd gets a mulligan opportunity after drawing their first card during the Draw Phase
2) There are no longer restrictions on normal/tribute summoning to once per turn
3) Increase max Life Points because of how easy it is to just fill the field with high attacking monsters now
4) Extra Deck monsters get summoning sickness and can't attack the turn they are summoned
However, adjusting the core rules to better balance the game based on the power creeps sounds like a step in the right direction.
@@streiya
1) Would give both players a chance to mulligan (so that the "bricky" decks actually get to see some play) because a lot of games are over before they even start
2) To balance this out a bit, you can normal summon once but not limited on special summons and vice versa you can special summon once but not limited on normal summons
3) That or give summoning sickness to monsters that were special summoned (that way normal summon has some advantage over special summoning)
4) Put it in 3)
Modern yugioh is who can make more disruptions, alt win cons are rarely seen in yugioh, aside from runicks milling and an occasional exodia deck
Good ideas
Having more than 8k LP would also make OTK decks (like Cyber Dragon or Galaxy Eyes) a relevant thing again.
The going first decks have a really high consistency rate of searching the cards they need to creating their boards, on top of the ability to multi-negate and cause disruptions, while the going second decks have to hope they draw the out to maybe stand a chance.
Spot on. Going first is so good that when you win dice roll you feel the wind beneath your wings as if you already started up 1-0
ASH IS THE BIGEST PROBLEM CARD FOR ROUGE DECKS
Ash combined with dumb boards. You get close to breaking it and then they ash you on the critical play and you fold
Rogue decks just lack extenders and too reliant on normal summon
Ash Blossom alongside Links nearly killed the game in 2017-2018
Not mine, I play timelords, kaiju, speedroid lvl4s and a rank 4&10 xyz toolbox. Ash can only sometimes mess up a play, but never enough to matter. I don't do long combos so ash and maxx c are bricks in the face of my decks more often than not
@TheDuelingBeard last time I used ash, I normal summoned it in attack mode to ram it into an opposing beatstick to win the duel. How? By activating TA.I. Strike after declaring my attack target and crashing the buffed ash into it and burning the opponent for having a high attack beatstick
I hate that I need to side out half my deck just to put in cards that do nothing for my deck because I need to actually be able to play the game.
This is what I’m saying bro!
Every top tier deck is a solitaire deck. If you play anything else, you will lose. Boring, no interaction.
These dudes paid a thousand bucks to just play with themselves in front of you. Could have just stayed home and did it for free 💀
@@TheDuelingBeard daaaaam lmao
Yugioh has increased interaction so much that it circled back to no interaction xD
@Sleepy0173 😂
I kinda disagree. The most fun duels I had in the past year, have been decks that play during enemy turns.
It's a back and forth, disruption without flat out floodgating/negating me. Just makes me play around things, like Vanquish Soul.
Honestly this is a community problem, the Yugioh community is THE MOST TOXIC community I’m a part of. Like I play Warhammer and outside of major tournaments no one plays meta because the community would dunk on you for being a loser who doesn’t care about anything but winning, the coolest people in the space lose a lot of games because they bring fun stuff that people haven’t seen and the community rewards creativity. There is NOTHING like that in Yugioh because games are 5 seconds long and it’s just a “did you win?” I’ve seen the idea of blind turn zeroes where you can both play out your opening hands without interacting and then the game starts??? Idk if that’s the solution
Yea I think we definitely have problems. Like the fact that for absolutely no monetary incentive players buy thousand dollar decks.
That’s an interesting suggestion, prob would be better than what we have today, good comment!
That's toxic in the entirely opposite spectrum
i don't agree about "this is a community problem"
in every game players play the way they usually do only for winning, but in the majority of the games, developers made the game in the way that the player, in order to win, they need to do things that are actually fun, and you can't complain about players because that's how humans work
so about Yu Gi Oh: it's Konami's fault for wanting money more than letting the game be healthy
I can tolerate the ygo scene. Now compare us to the souls and elden ring community... them some real glue eatters over there.
The point of every game is to win.
I'm inclined to agree. Mad people are always saying "Just change your strategy, adapt" like wtf is this, the Soulsborne community? There are genuine issues with this game. Where's the variation in play styles? Why are all the top decks feeling like they work the same?
Also can we talk about the super generic extra deck cards with OP effects? What's the fucking point in archetypes if we're going to then have those cards be available to just any other deck? You make some interesting points man, much appreciated.
Exactly. “Nah bro, this ain’t a problem, the problem is you not playing the same deck with the same exact strategy as 85% of the room”
lol what kind of logic is this, the game is marketed as if almost anything can win.
Generic OP monsters have ruined the game. Appo, savage, baronne. Every. Single. Deck does the same thing.
Thank you for your comment bro!
@@TheDuelingBeardI wish these would get banned or errata'd to be less generic, or at least better in their own deck.
• Appo feels like it's meant to be generic, so it should be tuned down.
• Baronne should straight up require Fleur Synchron as material.
• Savage would be very interesting if you needed to pop one of your monsters (maybe specifically a dark dragon) to use it, since rokkets benefit from being popped. Would still be a good generic card, but not as good if you don't benefit from being popped. Note that if you make it pop itself, it's just a big arc light.
I think if Konami made some traps that punished poping (removed from the field by an opp effect) and had a good effect anyway, would help.
Imagine a trap like mirror force except it has a second line saying "if this is removed from the field by an opponent's card effect, banish their entire field. Neither player can respond to this card's activation."
Suddenly, mirror force is viable.
That’s a good point too, I think they would have to reserve that for sub optimal traps because imagine if D barrier said that 😂 & but I agree wholeheartedly
Every time I see someone try to add a removal effect to a trap, it's always something broken.
@@MrThemelloman That's why it has to be on regular things like mirror force, or there I say it - Sakuretsu armor.
They will just print more options of bouncing and spinning effects to prevent those cards to trigger. Powercript is never the answer for balance.
@@shien-ryu4395 So, what is the solution? We cannot go back to 2004. Nor do I wish to honestly.
Like every meta deck in the game, the ban list will eventually balance them out.
That is the main reason why I never create the meta decks since I dont have the time to compete, so would just be a waste on just doing so. What I do enjoy is making new decks and making them competitive through my own experiences and mindset based on playtesting. I balance my budget and time on playing a variety of decks and making them better. I find more enjoyment that way and less concerned about the game's issues. Dont need to worry as much about the ban list.
I do this too the problem is that functionally playing competitive is impossible for about 6 months because there’s only one deck worth playing since it’s so overtuned. People that are unluckier and don’t have a solid friend group to play with have to deal with this unfortunately
Snake eyes has been playing through my hand traps and negates like nothing, its freaking stupid
2 imperms and an ash, on top of a barrone, and they still broke my board like nothing
I’ve had the same issue unfortunately, they play through 3 hand traps, like how is this good design?
Nothing like watching player one play solitaire for five minutes, than slapping down hand traps and flipping backrow when it’s finally your turn.
Haha hundred percent, summon limit gg?
With every new set it feels like all recent archetypes are the same, with exceptions. The artworks ar3 different, but they all do the same thing. The seaecher, the extender, the booster, the negator, etc.
If they want to let the game continue to be this fast pace, they should at least get rid of hard once per turns.
Spot on. here’s generic pushed archetype number 1246 that we made to sell the recent set because we need another mound of coke for the next company meeting - Konami probably
I tend to struggle going first and excel at going second. I play rogue and combine a variety of cards to counter and destroy just about any and all boards my opponent could build regardless of what engines combos and tactics they use meta or not.
Furthermore, I strive to create the absolute most powerful decks that can be strong and flashy in as few actions per turn as possible in order to minimize solitaire and maximize player on player interaction.
I don't think FTKs should be legal tbh. Its not fair if the opponent can spend an eternity playing with themselves, and you get to do jack squat because they dominate the entirety of time and minimize interactivity with anything you might be able to respond with.
The most fun I have in yugioh is against players who can do cool powerful moves in as few actions per turn as possible, spending as little time as possible lingering on their own turns so that more turns can pass back and forth at a more healthy pace.
The least fun I have playing yugioh is vs players who for all intents and purposes jack themselves off all duel doing long endless combos while I sit there and wait...and wait..and wait some more...and wait even more for them to finally finish doing stuff so I can finally have the opportunity to respond on my turn...and when my turn comes they continue playing long combos...ON MY TURN!
I don't mind floodgates, I don't mind negate boards, I don't mind jank and oppression and bs and all that whatever. I dont give a crap what your end board is because I can deal with anything with the correct cards. What I care about is, how long does it take someone to build their boards? How many actions are they gonna pack into single turns?
The more a duelist can do with less actions per turn, the more i respect that duelist because that duelist understands the preciousness of time and not wasting it playing solitaire in a two player game. Solitaire in a two player game is just disrespectful imo. Long combos be damned, short combos should be the hotness, the ultimate challenge of deck building, the ultimate goal.
The fastest deck isnt one that minimizes turns, the fastest deck minimizes time taken per turn and balances the turn total. imo
Combo is a legit playstyle imo, but combo players should know their combo very well in order to do them quickly. I don't care if you do 50 moves in 1 turn if you do that in 3-4 mins and stop doing stuff after that.
@dudono1744 I gun for 2min or less, preferably as little as possible. The minimum time and actions needed to achieve maximum results. Combos are only nice if they don't monopolize time imo. If a person can pack a ton of actions into 2min or less, thats impressive I guess but playing master duel you have animations at every action and it all adds up. And on a table duel, you have to manually calculate everything and explain each action taken as you take them....theres a fine balence to be made in any format between number of turns taken, time spent playing per turn, and number of actions per turn
Lot to unpack here but overall I agree with most of your points except the floodgate point but overall good stuff 👏🏻
Gotta love the players who “jack themselves off” in front of you, have nothing else going on so they come to locals to just anger others
I've been considering a turn 0 as a solution. Just a turn where both players have 5 cards drawn, and neither player can access their deck or extra deck, the restrictions of turn 1 still apply to whoever goes first but ALSO to the person playing after them. Effectively give one turn of pure set up to allow trap cards to be live from what would normally be turn 1, have decks that can't combo off some way to put some foot in the door and get a free +1 normal to maybe give room for a deck that can plus only once they've had a turn to play to plus (Dinos, Dragonmaids, Boxers for examples off the dome).
And stun tools that can be set up before anyone has access to an unbreakable board means you don't need a card that reads "nontarget, non destruct, non card effect, unrespondable return all cards your opponent has ever drawn or played to their deck" to be usable as stun. Hand traps are innately just something you can't interact with, since they exist in the hand, but if you can see 3 traps on the field set you know you could have to work through 3 powerful, yet conditional, threats that can stop your board from being built. Aka what the entire point of the pink cards is.
Out of all the ideas I’ve ever heard for fixing the game I think that this is the best one so far bravo 👏🏻
@TheDuelingBeard thanks! Been stewing over it for a while. :)
Couldn't agree more bro. I don't see Konami fixing the "disease" but only the symptoms unfortunately.... Where do we go from there??
I think murder list is the only option. Hit everything stupid I.e. floodgates/floodgate monsters, and cards that generate massive advantage for no reason like flamberge
Because of money they want you to keep buying the pills
Invent a new format that Konami doesn't control
Once again you do an excellent job at revealing the problems with the game.
I recently stopped playing modern Yu-Gi-Oh almost completely. I was done with: whoever rolls highest, wins. Most games I play now are GOAT format. This format has the interaction and excitement that I missed in modern Yu-Gi-Oh.
Appreciate that! 🙏🏻😎
& goat is fun along with many time wizard formats, it just sucks that the card pool never changes
@@TheDuelingBeard That's true, although even the GOAT format meta has still been changing slowly to this day. People are still discovering overlooked cards and strategies.
In my opinion Konami should support these older format: bring out new packs that are suitable for one specific format. Players will be happy and Konami will be making money.
I only still play master duel bc it's low investment
I think the fact of the matter is yes, TCG Yugioh is dying, but nobody wants to acknowledge it.
Sadly
This is something I literally just thought about because of a comment on this video. No one who plays yugioh is actually playing yugioh. People are in a constant state of setting up to play the game because no one actually knows what interaction with your opponent is supposed to look like. For example. Cards that interact with your opponent's board state (destroying cards, returning stuff to hand, battle traps, etc) have all been phased out for cards that either do nothing but search cards that search other cards, or cards that can be played literally before your opponent's turn properly starts or during it. Worse yet, are blowout cards that require no commitment. There is nothing happening on the board between players. Even when players actually commit to the board, they are just fighting over who gets to set up first, and whoever that is isn't preparing to defend their board state from an incoming threat. They're kicking a dead horse because the player who loses the fight over territory doesn't get a chance to start looking for territory.
Basically, the game doesnt actually start until someone enters battle phases and attacks, giving the other player a chance to respond, but the only time the battle phase takes place in modern yugioh is when you are about to lose.
I just realized this is literally what no back and forth means
Spot on! Going first player is trying to optimize his end board without even looking in your direction, going second player is playing through a person slapping them upside the head every card activation. They’re not even playing the same game, therefore massive blowout equalizers exist so that going second player can reset the game for him to become going first player 🤷♂️ wild “interactions” lol
dc cup in master duel is literally hell right now
I bet, snake eye is even worse in a best of one
The problem with handtraps is the player that goes first can use them on you, so not only you have to play against the insane boards that decks put out today out of a one card combo you also have to play through multiple handtraps. Ideally hand traps should only activate from the hand if you have an empty board.
Agreed!
Generic cards and monsters aren't the problem. Generic effects aren't the problem.
It's generic effects printed on generic cards that creates the problem hereby giving the player the illusion of choice. This creates bad power scaling for cards as players will always have the cards choose themselves for you.
There are no choices. Only what is most optimal.
It's been a problem enrooted in the game since day one.
It's easy to display knowledge but we often lack wisdom.
Good stuff. Agreed 👏🏻 that’s why I play branded, at least I feel like I’m doing something else besides generic end board of baronne appo savage.
I agree, we should get generic cards with situational effects, they'd be mostly played by decks that want that effect.
I think you put it nicely how the meta game is viewed at higher levels of play. It seems more often than not to me that yugioh is determined by a coin flip more than in other card games and i think most of that has to do with games ending by turn 3 consistently at the higher levels of play. It boils down to "draw the out". However, as you said, even if you drew one out you're still not out of the woods with modern decks.
Exactly, great comment. I love games where my opponent wins the dice roll, they blow me out game one by locking me out with negates and floodgate monsters with 5 cards in hand for follow-up only for me to return the favor game 2 and they return it game 3. Super back and forth. It feels like instead of turns we have the games become the turns lmao
I quit the game way back when Shadolls came out. They really were the start of a new age, the recursion, resilience, consistency, everything. Anything released prior to them were basically invalidated.
This level of "step up" where the past cards are functionally deprecated has happened more than once since. Now I've been back fully invested again for 2 years, I swear the step up happened twice. One major one was Tear, but I reckon even Tear has been left behind in the same way shadolls left behind the rest.
Not even because of the bans, because new stuff seems to be designed to be just as strong if not stronger, while also having space for 20 or so non-engine power cards.
There is no going back. I used to love synchros when they came out, even though they were every bit as generic as they are today. Yet I came to hate them now in modern times, because "material" generation is just that easy and recursions from grave and banish, summons from deck etc. are omni-present.
Decks like Snake-Eyes would have been peak design if they had no access to an extra deck for whatever reason, but had more interactions in-engine, meaning you would have ran more of them and cycled them as needed. Now they are basically a "material generator" deck, just like many others. You summon your big boss to summon 2 more trash for link/synchro fodder, it's disgusting.
Going second as you mentioned, sucks from a card advantage perspective, because it seems like some decks have a board AND graveyard full of interactions and recursions on turn one WHILE ALSO having a 3-5 card hand. It is insane. If you used an ash+imperm and they played through it you start with 4 cards in hand.
Odds are you lost before you ever started. Again, it's not even snake-eyes, it's almost every other deck going forwards if you look at the "leaks" from the OCG releases. This is the new normal.
I just can't see where this is going to end.
Great comment, I agree on many points especially the final points about them having everything and a hand while you have 4-5 cards to deal with it. It’s sad because it feels we were getting somewhere with the November 2023 format where so many decks were viable and you stent even need that much non engine, now we’re back to square one with another massive step up as you said.
D Shifter requires concessions to not be abused akin to Maxx C or Mystic Mine. It's a band aid solution like all of the above, but it lets Little Timmys get into the game *and* its existence is tolerable. _Except_ to egos.
i hate that they complained about ariseheart and the mind hacker instead of shangri-la the only real crime in kash
i'll take shifter arise and fissure any day of the week rather than ishizu shufflers "i don't mind the millers" and branded's gimmick puppet lock whom the deck is fair without cause unlike tear it splits their plays between the 2 turns rather than play their whole turn on each
this while playing worst decks that might die to any one interruption and inherently go -1 per interaction "i hate you amaze/attraction why are you so cool"
i'm actually more afraid of kash players making a board with the main deck monsters rather than what their extra deck hide and i don't understand why they don't going first as it requires more than 1 imperm or tactic to deal with and kinda beats every deck under the sun with 1 important banish
Going 2nd is so ass i play amazoness going first hoping to resolve true king lithosagym and remove S:P and other crap out of the duel so i get to play.
😂 that basically sums up Yugioh going second perfectly lmao
Advantage is the main issue, Snake eyes has rolled in with having mostly no negates but just having 3 effects on every card, you can hand trap 1/3rd of any given card while having no archetype lock. Even board breakers aren't particularly great because their power level is often insufficient to overcome the new "layered interaction" arms race, where attempting board break just floats into more disruption. I agree that "going second" bonus effects should be added to help overcome the advantage generated by 1-card combos going +8
Great point about the “layered interaction” especially when it’s in grave, feels untouchable
I like that you mentioned tear as one of those decks where going second is actually possible with only engine. I think it's a good direction for konami to push toward. Instead of outright removing everything remotely good I think the only direction we can move at this point is forward. The reason tear was so good was because it could outpace everything and just play turn zero. It didn't end on anything absolutely toxic, it just ended on a couple interruptions. Now we're seeing more and more archetypes that are capable of playing turn zero. I am all for this and hope that we could just powercreep/speedcreep the game in such a way that going second is actually way stronger without the need for banning literally everything released since duelist alliance.
That’s one direction to go down for sure, my suggestion of a banlist is so that we don’t have to wait a decade for all these decks to get tear level support, since if they started printing decks on the level of tear from now on, everything old would be worth less than the paper it’s printed on. But I’m not opposed to what you’re saying, I think there’s multiple ways to go about this, although I think Konami will just stand pat and watch us suffer.
@@TheDuelingBeardThe fastest way would be printing semi generic turn 0 cards, like a turn 0 card for Machine decks. That avoids the possibility of a "turn 0 pile" deck and doesn't need 300 new cards.
Good on you for calling out that so many cards negate the effect rather than activation. Letting opt make unnecessary bricks was a huge mistake.
Massive mistake.. that’s why I hate ash, it’s not even OP it’s just the worst when you play through 3-5 interrupts only for your last play to be hit by ash AND if you have another copy of the ashed card it doesn’t even matter lol
Also new Support for old archetypes Just Turns the old cards obsolete
Gimmick puppets for example
I mean yeah you Need 75% of the old extra Deck Line Up for your ftk (cool ftks yay) but the old Main Deck Monsters are just Not Worth playing anymore because the new ones are Just that mich better
So why Play other Gimmick puppets when you Need 38% of your deck for Tech cards
Every Deck is Just built to have the best First Turn possible and If Not you surrender
I Miss having Back and forth duels where Comeback Potential is given
Agreed, that’s why unchained support was so amazing, because it used all of the old stuff, even the traps. That’s why we criticize though, because we know Konami can make good legacy support and they just dont
One BIG issue is that for the last 3 years Konami hasn't made new generic hand-traps and board-breakers. Ultimate Slayer was rubbish, Bystials are too specific. Thrust is good but most of the time it's not great because your opp can pop off before you can activate it. It is mostly used for setting floodgate trap when going first which is broken. NIB, DROPLET, TALENTS, DARK RULER, all were made almost four years ago now. And we need more stronger go second cards that DON'T lose to TALENTS
Agreed but also the problem then will be they’ll power creep those cards too. I hate their design philosophy more than anything.
Quite a few times at my locals I've otk'd going second with my flame swordsman/ infernoble build. Idk, i guess as a player who isn't super skilled yet, I think it's kinda whatever because I've been beaten going first and second plenty of times. I guess the real problem starts when you're extremely competitive and know what every card does and you have a lot of experience in the game. I agree it's less fair going second, but at my anecdotal experience at my locals, it's been fine. I prefer rogue night over advanced format anyway haha
Playing Yugioh currently is garbage. It's solitare
Solitaire is less stressful 🤣
they should continue making single player games it seems to be what their good at. i want more yugioh dating simulators.@@TheDuelingBeard
no. the meta is garbage.
any meta that turns a 2 player game into solitair, is shit.
How yugioh fanboys have held out up until now I have no idea. But omni negates, limiting your field zones so you can't play anything...I wonder if konami ever thinks if their stuff they release is actually healthy for the game.
Or do they just think *MONEY MONEY MONEY* and forget that an actual person now has to "play" against said shit?
Because I'll be honest, yeah the decks that came out in the past 7-8 years are fun to play, but not *a single deck* has been fun to play against.
I don't play competitive yugioh anymore, because it is simply not fun anymore.
That’s spot on, people forget the other side of the table when playing, they only think about how much fun they’re having and not the opponent across the table.
And yes Konami is short sighted as hell, one of the greediest companies this side of EA
When they have an archetype (Snake-Eyes) that can play through every single Handtrap and still pop off I think a slate wipe is in order like they made Ash, Droplets, and Nib (along with other Handtraps) to interrupt combo heavy decks and to help decks that needed interruptions but they don’t really do anything in the current format I loved Edison format when you could just play whatever cuz every deck is basically up for grabs now it’s Fire King Snake-Eyes or just pure Snake-Eyes not really a lot of versatility in the current standing of the game
Infernoble endboard can even negate superpoly and DRNM, thats how bad going 2nd is right now.
And it was even wilder before the Isolde hit
LOL I make the joke that all the new "meta" decks are the same thirty two staples every other meta deck runs, and 8 archetype cards so they can delude themselves that they aren't playing a pile. I still refuse to play a ton of garbage just to get an easy win or keep someone else from buying their win, because if someone is desperately unhappy and insecure enough that the only joy in their life is to bully and shut down someone else in a card game meant for children, and also dumb enough to pay anywhere from $300-$500 of actual money to do it, who am I to take away that tiny pitiful triumph that is probably the only positive thing in their lives? I can't even blame Konami all that much, there are a lot more people who want to pay to win then there are people who will pay to just have fun duels, so of course they keep making pay to win cards and decks. None of my decks are powerful, but they all are at least good, easy and fun to play. My "go second" decks are pretty much the same vibe - I play a pure Amazement deck and a pure Reptillianne deck, and while both of them lose more often than they win, both of them only cost a few thousand gems apiece (easily earned in a week or so of dailies) and both of them are capable of annoying the HELL out of any meta deck. You can never beat an idiot who is willing to pay any amount of cash and who has no interest in actually dueling because to them winning is everything. The biggest, best and only joy you can get from matches with that crap is to annoy them and make them have to actually read cards and work for their little affirmation.
Love it. You said it like yugi moto himself
Not sure how I stumbled on this channel but holy fuck, finally someone that just has the balls to say it. Killing the top decks and letting the whales that paid $1k for snake eyes cry about it then having a complete change in how cards are designed after is the correct answer to dealing with what the game has become and ANY other suggestion is just pure copium.
You know it, I know it, everyone knows it, and everyone just starts slurping Konami's balls with ACKSHUALLY tier arguments to defend their favorite financial black hole that lets them sometimes feel like they've won at anything in life the second any of us try and just acknowledge the problem directly.
Tier 2 and lower decks have been the strongest and most diverse they've ever been in the history of this game and it's frustrating to see what could be a golden age of creative and viable deck building get the life strangled out of it because whales gonna whale and need tier 0 formats to pretend they have skill because if they can't go into the test with the answer sheet than it's a "bad format".
Exactly bro! 👏🏻 spot on, we were in near perfect formats before this garbage. Now we have to stare down the same lame deck round after round because some dude thought an “investment” of $1000 dollars was the right move when his winnings will be like 3-5 it’s pack per week. Or MAYBE a mat at regionals 🤣🤣
Galaxy brain moves 😂
I'm barely able to turn 2 with my deck, and its only possible because I've got two separate, yet powerful turn 2 decks that have high synergy with a great capacity to OTK due to their high ATK and great removal capabilities, Ancient Warriors and Kashtira.
The strategy (if I didn't have Dimension Shifter), has my opponent spend all their resources keeping Kashtira on a leash only to realize afterward that I'm Ancient Warriors and hadn't used my normal summon yet, often leading to either an OTK or them left in a state to be burn to 0 LP.
And that is only if they aren't the 5 minute combo deck that creates more negates than the 6 cards in my hand that I start with.
The problem has been power creep but also creation of cards that tramples into each other's territory. Trap cards are useless because every deck now combos on your opponents turn. The only good spell cards are those that wipe out your enemies board or helps extend your combos that would be stopped by your opponents interruptions. And Normal Monsters are a dying breed that should've been a part of every archetype but was thrown to the wayside for every Effect in the game.
It could be said, Konami ruined yugioh when they decided their was only one correct way to play the game.
Spot on analysis 👏🏻
Btw that list sounds fire 🔥
Also, I disagree with this dude.
Yes, the game has and continues to be power crept, but this game is also 25 years old. If they never upped the power and consistency of decks then this game would ultimately get boring. Nice thing Konami has done is opened up multiple formats for people that enjoy old school yugioh. So, this game can be steered towards multiple audiences.
I’m not against power creep, I’m cool with it I’m just against obscene tier 0 power creep. & konami didn’t do that the players did, the players were so adamant about playing old formats that Konami caved
@@TheDuelingBeard True, tier 0 decks can be frustrating but (A) there is always a way beat the meta especially with all the crazy older cards Konami forgets about and (B) those decks are always the ones that are up for ban the very next ban list. Even now, people are discussing banning cards that were released in the very last core set. I know it feels like an eternity but ban lists generally come out every 3-4 months so dealing with decks like these is manageable.
I'm not sure I agree with this. Would Snake Eyes being more in line with other decks power level mean people wouldn't play it?
Some amount of power creep is good (I like old school cards being power crept back in) but I'm not sure it's the key to keeping the game fresh
I play only my favorites and recently the nordic gods, i loose anyway first or second , even with a second consécutive turn i will loose.
Honnestly a ban list won't help alone, It's the print, design philosophy , and i think rulling, why not made skills that will act like rules with particular engine to restrict them in some way in turn 1 and 2? Up life point ? A card number rule ? Changes the draw phase at the end of the turn? I don't know, but rulling can probably fix somes issue and mades news formats by It's own for casual enjoyer too
I jus wanna say as someone who scoffed at being asked to play Magic TG, I started a week ago and I’m sad because I literally can’t go back to Yu gi oh which I have decades of nostalgia built up for.. but a few matches of MTG blew it out of the water… and I genuinely love YGO more. But I can’t even play it anymore. It sucks man because this can all be fixed
You’re a tougher man than me, it’s hard to quit the Yugioh addiction but I feel you, most people that play other card games say that their playstyle and speed is similar to how it always was, it’s just Yugioh that changes sadly
This game is garbage because the modern people have turned it into formulas that are nonsense. People gotta look up calculators to build a deck. Wtf There’s no customization no more this game just sucks. i’m glad I sold out when I did i’d rather collect cards than play them
Your point about 38% of your deck being tailored to go second is so true. There’s a bit of hypocrisy behind combo players when it comes to “drawing the out” to floodgates. I’m told I have to play 9+ handtraps to have a chance drawing enough of them in my opening 5 cards to go second through their highly consistent setup. Meanwhile players moan about playing 3 Cosmic, which they can draw for their 6th card and still be effective. Not to mention floodgate decks (stun) don’t otk or are nearly as consistent as combo. You’re given more time overall to out the board - there’s a reason why stun has less overall tops than other playstyles.
That’s a good point too. I try not to hate on stun too much, it’s just hard to contextualize stun when a card says “NO” lol but yes spot on, the fact that hand traps are seen as good in general and back row removal seen as bad is a huge symptom of what I was saying here.
I play a Darklord/Despia deck(yeah i know it probably sounds cringe) but the moment i come across an opponent with an omninegate i just cant do anything to counter it.
Makes me wonder if i should throw out my deck synergy just to prevent some level of omninegate
No not cringe at all, that’s based as long as you’re not locking others out of playing
@@TheDuelingBeard yeah I try not to. Once had a duel with that "Masquerade the Blazing Dragon" in my deck and I saw how broken its life point cost was. Now I try not to play it because it just felt wrong in this day and age where "effects" are everything.
The way I've been breaking the game down is to compare opportunity cost and opportunity consumption. Disruptions, negations, hand loops, FTKs, and floodgates are opportunity consumption, since they effectively remove the options that the going second player has.
For example, I'm going to compare Emergency Teleport with Raigeki. You'd think those cards aren't that similar, but when staring down negation they really are. If Titanic Galaxy is on the field, they're effectively reduced down to the same thing, which is an opportunity consumption. Raigeki destroys all of the opponents monsters, but Emergency Teleport goes into a Punk combo that will also get rid of all of the opponents monsters. Because of the threat each presents, Titanic Galaxy must negate them when activated. So, the two different effects have been reduced completely in identity to "force out one disruption".
I've been advocating for premium removal (removal effects that cannot be disrupted) for awhile, but it presents a problem. Ultimately, Emergency Teleport is better than Raigeki, because you can't win the game with Raigeki. You could activated it 10 times, and still not win a game. You need a way to throw down damage to end your opponent, and Emergency Teleport does this. This game design creates a meta where every deck is just starter cards with a select few garnets, because in the face of unending disruption there is no functional difference between any of them, aside from the fact that they force out one disruption. Konami responded to this latter problem by emphasizing hand traps to pre-emptively stop the big boards, but the design of these hand traps robs them of any real identity or any other considerations, and instead has only further pushed us toward the starter spam.
I've found competitive master duel to be incredibly boring because of all this. My decks have no identity. They're the Maxx "C" tax (12-15 hand traps), and a bunch of starters. Victory is decided largely by whether I've opened enough starters to muscle through their hand traps, and vice versa... no matter what those starters are.
Great points 👏🏻 never thought about it that way but spot on
Big suggestion for new players that want to play meta. Do your research, use the OCG for references, and plan for the future and not the present. If you start trying to chase the meta, you will be dropping thousands on this game and then be furious once those same cards hit the ban list. If you play for the future and slowly buy cards, you will save money and get the most out of your cards long term. Also, USUALLY staples are a good investment. Most staples don’t get on the ban list and eventually get reprinted like crazy (i.e. ash blossom has 11 reprints). 😂
Great suggestions but my problem isn’t that, my problem is how gross going second feels. Didn’t draw 2-3 hand traps / boardbreakers? GG
If I were to make my own custom format it would be as follows;
1: I would call it "That Grass Looks Greener" Format as homage to the card of the same name.
2: This custom format would have no banlist at the start and the goal of this would be to make custom forbidden/limited list that combines the mechanics of the Advanced Format Forbidden/Limited list with with the mechanics of the Duel Links Forbidden/Limited list, and update it at least every month to stop some un-fun/un-fair cards, and then gradually slowing down to maybe either every 3, 6, or 12 months, depending on bad the power creep as actually gotten.
3: Main deck size is locked to 60. No more, no less.
4: To compensate for decks being locked to 60 cards in Main deck, players opening hand will start at 6 instead of 5, may update to 7 if decks end up being to bricky.
5: Extra Deck summoning is restricted to 5 summons per turn, because a card called Summon Gate exists that further limits this number to 3.
6: Try to accommodate for other formats, both official and custom, as an additional Ruleset if need be, such as homebrew speed duels, tag duels, and even battle royale duels.
7: Make sure that everyone has playmats that tell you were cards are supposed to go, because the last thing we need is column cheating.
8: Tournaments NEED a Referee monitoring duels at all times, because the judge system is CLEARLY NOT WORKING BY ITSELF.
9: Try to get MBT, Joshua Schmidt, Farfa, Stevie Blunder, MegaCapitalG, Jesse Cotton, and of course, Cimooooo to promote it.
10: Hope and pray the Egyptian God Cards that this will fix Yu-Gi-Oh! and that Konami notices and makes it an official format.
We do this and then Konami makes some 60 card deck with 58 starters slash extenders that destroys every other deck 😅
But I like the creativity! Great comment
Konami made only one format. And there is no rotation in in. So every new release had to be better than the previous.
And even if the power creep between 2 sets is usually small,it freaking adds up after 25 years.
Man, this has ben a problem for a while. If you want to introduce Yu-Gi-Oh to your friends, just flip a coin.
🤣 and if you lose and say this game is luck based they’ll say, buy a better coin or try flipping it better 😂
My friend asked me to teach him Yugioh because he was fed up of other card games being pay to win.
If snake eyes didnt have like 5 one card starters and flamberge was limited to one things would probably be fine
I think if they ban flamberge the deck is Fair
@@TheDuelingBeard the amount of times i've broken a snake eye board playing darklords only to have it be completely rebuilt before the battle phase is so disheartening.
The main issue with current yugioh is that a coin flip and your initial hand define who wins. Comeback chances are very low. Then again they can also block your negates, when you go second, so if you have an ash blossom, winter cherries, or whatever, you can still get blocked. So in short, the game is just a matter of who gets to do the best turn one board.
I am creating my own card game in TTS, with ideas from Yugioh, minus the cancerous mechanics that make the match end in just 2 turns.
Love it, man said “eff Yugioh I’m making my own game” 😂😎💪🏻
My problem is Konami gives certain decks all the love and support yet older decks like fluffal haven't seen good support in years. They just stop supporting them. Then they get power crept and useless. They need to give every deck the same chance as the new ones. Also there should be a rota/bonfire for all monster types. You made a good point and i agree with every single thing. These negates going second are getting ridiculous. You only get six cards and they can interrupt you with 10 plus cards 😒
Exactly, it feels like old decks are so dated, it feels like anything that hasn’t gotten support since 2020 handles like 2003 blue eyes lol
So true. And it doesn't help that when Konami does make support for something its not all treated equally. Like a lot of DM era support has unnecessary restrictions or are too resource intensive to be useful. Sometimes even have effects that are down right more detrimental than they're worth like eternal soul.
Ex, Magia Master, red-eyes fusion or how the Labyrinth tank retrain has summoning sickness.
unless you have all the handtraps then a pot of prosperity draw, going second is so tough.
Big time
As a cyber dragon main, I'd have to disagree
As an anything else main, you're absolutely right
😂 love it
Let's create our new trend guys: "Mulligan" for going 2nd 😂
Konami will make a card that lets you do it, it’ll be secret rare and your opponent won’t be able to chain to it 😂
@@TheDuelingBeard It's funny that the latest Mulcharmy are just exactly that 😂
Great video!
I agree with a lot of this. It really is insane how much the game has change pace wise. If konami listened to the players the problem would fix itself
Agreed. Honestly a poll banlist would be better than what we have currently where the NA side has to ask big daddy Konami for permission to hit cards. What a joke.
And thank you! 😎
there are many cool ways to balance out the first turn, like giving actions that you are able to do in main phase 1 and 2 a twist with the infinite possibilities being limited to main phase 2. or just give the second player a mulligan
I play mikanko dor this exact reason. screw your "3 negates and 4 interruptions" board. i'm gonna double lava golem/kaiju the board, and then double edged sword for the otk.
Same reason I like Adventure Vaylantz. The Adventure Engine is obviously pretty flexible, with both Illegal Knight and Gryphon Rider being great for 1st or 2nd and it can be a flexible engine. If you pair Lava Golems with that, if you open Aramesier and a Lava Golem, you can loop the Golem since you can return it to your hand before throwing it down again. Now pair all of that with an archetype that actively punishes you for normal summoning (their initial effects, like Shinonome search, are only live if the monster is Special Summoned) and it's a fun archetype that also has the bonus of nobody knowing what the fuck it does, and having so much text that they'd rather not try to figure that out.
Honestly, this game has been going downhill since the introduction of Pendulum mechanics. Now with the introduction of: Horus, Snake-Eyes, Tenpai, Rescue-ACE, etc.? This game cannot be fixed without a complete overhaul and reset of its core gameplay mechanics. The entire foundation of the game needs to be changed, as the game is too much. It is by far the most disgusting example of power-creep that I’ve seen in a game. Let alone a card game.
Exactly, power creep is Yugioh number one game mechanic
Konami needs to develop decks designed to go second with monsters that deal with first turn decks and decks that are best going 1st and make a more or less equal amount of tier 1 to 2 going first and second deck archtypes.
Agreed, I think one thing that isn’t mentioned is we want to be able to play going second but not murder our opponent. A game is not interactive if you get locked out going second or just blown out and otked going first. It’s a fine line for good play.
Good thing me and my friends are filthy casuals and we don't play in tournaments or whatever, and your video pretty much sums up why we don't play competitive Yu-gi-oh, lmao.
I agree with a lot of what you're bringing up, but I don't know if I trust Konami with a big murder banlist. There are some cards, like Apollousa, that have recently started becoming a major issue. You used to be able to just punch over her, but against Snake eyes, they have at least 2, maybe 3, ways of stopping you from doing that, so if you didn't draw either A) A monster you can chain (and then get omni'd anyway) or B) A relevant piece of non-engine, she eats 4 cards before you've even gotten to I:P or Princess.
I actually really like your point of effect vs. activation negation. Maybe some cards get to keep it, like Baronne maybe since it can only do it once while face up on the field, but maybe other generic cards get erratas to negate the activation? I kind of like generics to an extent, I am a toolbox enjoyer, also it makes building new decks cheaper, but I do hate the direction sometimes with all the archetype cards being climbing tools. I love Mannadium for example, but it doesn't have a single relevant end board archetype monster. Astraloud is cool as fuck, but he's an extender/breaker. Amritara looks cool, has good effects, but it's not staying on your board lol. Floodgates definitely need to go, including things like EEV, dimensional barrier etc, although if Ariseheart is a floodgate, I want some good rank 7 end board monsters to replace it. Rank 7s are just toolbox as far as the (big) eye can see, which is cool, but at the cost of having so few bosses. Noir and Ariseheart are basically it. Just some thoughts from a synchro/XYZ enjoyer.
That’s fair, I see that side of it too. I’m mostly hating on the fact that we don’t get engine tools to deal with boards going second, we just have to pray we draw into multiple unsearchable cards to have a hope of playing. Like mannadium is really cool but it’s one of the decks that exasperate this, can’t tell you how many times I’ve lost to mannadium through no fault of my own. I have enough tech in my deck, I just don’t draw it going second and that’s all she wrote since in essence it’s an ftk deck.
But overall good points! Thank you for your comment!
@@TheDuelingBeard The way it currently functions is essentially an FTK, even if you're not running calamity, that's true. The extra deck requires so many climbing tools, it simply can't afford to get into a grind game. It also loses to its own field spell sometimes, which is frustrating lol. Maybe Konami could try designing more engine like Pank in addition to getting rid of some of the effect negation, but give it more of a going first application? I think they tried this with Fenrir, it became a cash generating staple, then Konami stopped printing cards like it. Maybe that wasn't the intention, but it feels like it.
From playing a fair amount of masterduel, I agree with the thing about how generics like Baronne are a problem they are only so because they give you an issue that you have to solve and the issue commonly comes up.
However I disagree with going second being unfun to me breaking someone’s personally crafted board is one of if not the most fun experience in yugioh and can be well worth trying to do even if you think you are going to lose anyway. Especially funny is when you break something like a tear or snake eye board using only destruction effects or whatever so they are getting off their recursion and everything and you still break through.
I think it's just age.
Yugioh is basically what the video games would feel like if we started with all the cards we like to use. The same way we all used to shiver in our boots if mirror force might be in the back row is how we feel if ash, droll, solemn, ghost hunter effect veiler and etc are in their hand or set in the back. Going second is basically either throw the turn away, hope their board isn't disgusting, try to use evenly matched or whatever its called before setting up on main 2, or using forbidden droplet or dark ruler no more.
But you're right... it's too expensive to go second. as the only way you really could make it fair barring lost card advantage is by tossing cards to deal no damage, then using one day of peace to do the same, but they draw a card and you draw what you would have without it. Unless you're stalling out or making enough baits for mekk knight blue sky to get on board, you're basically screwed...
I honestly think there should be cards that offer benefits based on your opponent having more cards than you, whether it be in hand or on board, and letting you draw the difference. No more purrely nonsense, or runik advantages, maxx c insanity or more. I know those cards are dying to be negated, so have them do the same effect if sent to gy, banished or other, and only allow them to draw cards from the effect once but have multiple chances to do so if negated or otherwise removed.
As it is, newer cards or even supported card types get to do too much to your cards while building their own hands. Trickstar Droll, Altergeist, Runick, Lab, some dinos, can really destroy your board in an instant. trickstar droll can destroy your hand, and lab with epidemic can do somewhat the same. Then you have full on lockdowns like calamity and summon locks, and it just becomes irritating to enjoy without a side deck full of cards that just say no.
Fair points, especially the ftk style crap like eradicator or droll reincarnation. Why does that exist 😅
I think we the community should in vest on building an AI that learns to play yugioh so we can compare how different rules impact the winrates of the player that won the dice. I guess actually the winrate of going first is way higher than the winrate for going second. Something like 70/30. By trying different rules, we can compute winrates and choose a set of rules that gives a 50/50 split of winrates for 2 players playing perfectly against each other. This way we can achieve a more fair game just like chess, where the player going first has little advantage such that two computers playing perfectly always end in a draw.
Such technology is already available and have been implemented for games like chess and poker, though Yugioh seems more complex and it could be really expensive to develop such AI.
I think the main rule that could impact such winrates without altering dramatically the gameplay is the number of cards the player going 2nd draws. With such AI we could see what happens to the winrates when player 2 draws 6 cards during draw phase of turn 1 and then another card during the draw phase of turn 2 (so he draws 7 cards instead of 6).
This is a solid take too, just remove the human aspect to it and see if that makes it fair. I like it
Thats honestly why i build ALL my decks with the thought of going second...and i win most of my duels
That’s bold, I like it
The thing about those 3 Raidraptor towers? They don't have any effect on their own most of the time. They are just a wall, and totally able to be dealt with. Hell, a link-2 Accesscode can swing through one
True, I was just using that to accent my point. But if you can’t make an accescode because rank 13 blows you up you’re stuck, and are for sure losing. This is coming from a guy who plays raidraptor as one of my options
A board with just Herald, Void Ogre and Crystal Wing is far too broken for me, and that's not even the worst 😂
Negate boards are gross so I’m with this sentiment haha
They just need to separate the Negation effects from counter effects like counterttap cards should not be considered negation they should be considered a counter, which is faster than a negation. That way if a card says cannot be negated. I’m not navigating it. I’m countering it. that would make countertops feasible again. because of this quick play negation crap, and cards that say cannot be negated. Why even have countertraps in the game anymore or better yet Why even have spell speeds anymore.
Wow it trif gaming's brother
Funny
Playing Yu-Gi-Oh! was fun from the mid-GX era until the beginning of the XYZ era. The first XYZ cards were fun and interesting. However, the XYZ cards that came later, along with cards that allowed you to special summon monsters faster than in the 5D era, ruined the game.
That’s a fair sentiment, I for one thing xyzs were fine, they just required more balance but since they were the hot new mechanic they were pushed, I think links wrecked everything
@@TheDuelingBeard I see your point about the Link monster problem when Link Summoning, you lose nothing compared to Summoning Synchro, Fusion, and XYZ monsters.
But I see similar problems emerging during the Link era as it did during the XYZ era. It's the same issue with Link monsters as with XYZ monsters: they are easy to summon and have powerful effects without restrictions.
Interesting and well-balanced Link and XYZ monsters, like Number 39: Utopia and Number 17: Leviathan Dragon, required you to manage their resources carefully. But then other XYZ monsters came along that didn't have the same or similar drawbacks when their materials ran out.
Link monsters like Crusadia had balanced effects that required a monster card to land on a spot that the Link monster's arrow points to in order to activate the Link monster's effect. In comparison, Salamangreat Link monsters can activate their effects regardless of whether a monster is in the position that the arrow is pointing to or not. Unfortunately, many Link monsters have the same function as Salamangreat Link monsters in how their effects are activated. I think this is a shame because it ruins the concept of Link monsters, which could be both unique and balanced.
It's fun to talk to people with whom you can discuss different ideas and solutions.
@@dwarfrunes9072I personally don't think that Xyz monsters not having an active downside if they run out of material was a problem. The ones played during the Zexal era already couldn't use their effects once it's gone, to me that's enough of a downside.
What you described for good design for link monsters is exactly what I think the problem with them was: They already required more monsters than other summoning methods (Link 4 are most comparable to a Synchro or XYZ boss monster, and those usually required at most 3 monsters, while a Link 4 needs 4) plus their effects often required them to point to something or be Co linked. This required you to be able to summon more monsters to actually do something and since link monsters don't really care about what monsters you have, people could just start playing everything that said "special summon" on it. Konami also released more and more advantage engines, since Link monsters required you to keep pumping more bodies on the field.
At some point, Konami dropped colinking and even linking from most new link monsters, but the whole advantage generation is still there and guess what, it can be used to create more link monsters!
Once they lifted the restrictions imposed by Master Rule 4, the speed of the game was established and people could use it to go into all the other monster types.
So I'm very much of the opinion that link summoning directly led to the extreme homogenization of play styles, where you had to put a bunch of bodies on board for immediate value.
I quit yugioh ages ago because it just became super boring and samey. Every turn resulted in the same situation. A full board of negates. It got to the point i just couldn't have fun and play the deck i wanted to anymore.
It feels like half the year we spend in this pain and then half the year is not bad. It’s just tiring.
This explains why the store I visited didn't sell Yu-Gi-Oh and only sold Digimon and Pokemon... whatever -mon😅
Somehow Magic doesn't have this same hate. 😅
People just want to be able to play the game, not be stressed going second to the point of hating the game. I don’t blame those stores
Super Poly “Neither player can activate cards or effects…”
Ultimate Slayer “Your opponent cannot activate monster effects…”
Evenly Matched > not once per turn
Kaiju > Tributes for cost = nearly impossible to prevent
I agree that the top decks need to be destroyed, but you’re never gonna be able to argue that going second cards will just get negated.
I’d say most going second cards are used to merely bluff an opponent by baiting the negate. In my opinion a healthy format is one where you only need one breaker to start playing and you don’t have fear of it being negated other than with a judgement or another trap that negates those cards.
I do think some breakers are busted as hell. Like evenly is nuts, the fact that we have formats where it’s garbage shows how degen the game can be
Such a true take 👏thank you for the cope. I agree that a murder list is the only way to slow the game down to a more fair state for both players. Unfortunately Konami probably won't do this due to the backlash they would receive from players that spent lots of $ for the overtuned blowout cards. We can hope though, subscribed 👍
Welcome aboard! & yea cope is the only thing we have, only other option is to make our own format but Yugioh players are impossible and I don’t see that happening 🤷♂️
I just got back into the game after many years of not playing at all. I left when links released. I played during Edison to the zoo formats.
I’ve been playing traptrix since coming back and I find it really enjoyable using in archetype and engine to win games. But here’s what I’ve found:
1. Going second sucks unless you draw 2 minimum hand traps as you said
2. Even sometimes you still lose because some decks will just eat the hand trap and keep pushing. I once had snake eyes player beat me after getting evenly matched twice. Feels really bad.
3. Being able to negate pretty much anything used to be reserved for boss monsters that were either hard to get out OR were extremely archetype locked so you couldn’t just throw them into any deck. Now the most frequent endboards are basically either Appo, Baronne, borreload or some other generic negate. I like those card arts for sure, but the design is just e.e I remember when Shi-en was considered a busted card lol
4. The busted going second cards? a lot of them work just as well going first. In master duel it’s quite common to watch your opponent build a board with 2+ negates, some other form of disruption, and recursion if you manage to out the board, only to then hit you with a Maxx C at the start of your turn. No called by or ash? Now you give them more resources while trying to play through their board lol. As you said, it’s pretty much impossible with engine.
5. When I get to play more than 3 turns it feels really good if I win and it feels (mostly) acceptable if I lost because bad resource management or maybe a skill gap. When I’m already good as dead by turn three it just feel like I might as well have started and insta scooped since why sit there and watch a 20 minute combo when I already know the end result.
Spot on. I think most of the people that defend the current format are people that are hyper competitive, like ycs champs or people that have played for 3-4 years max.
I too agree that I’m cool with losing if both players have gotten at least two turns, if so then like you said it could be skill or misplay or whatever but if the game devolves to reveal your hand at the start and then scoop then the game is broken
& maxx c being gone in tcg helps us a lot since we would have absolute degen legal like ocg if we had the roach.
Appreciate the comment, glad you’re back in the game, I hope Konami doesn’t let this format go too long, I miss the last format where thirty decks could top
Wait for Tenpai Dragon if you want to go second they have a one card combo going second.
Tenpai is only going to add more fuel to the fire
I think yuguioh decks shouldn't be able to win in 1 turn i mean back in the day you could choose among decks that could generate good control, decks that could otk but you need some set up first, or decks that could break boards but could otk
Exactly, back in the day decks had a play style (aggro/control/stun) now they’re all three rolled into one 🤣
Konami bannning a tier zero deck, only to then print an even more consistent deck next year.
“I was a business man, doing business” - Konami probably
They should just make a new rule where you can only Summon a certain amount of times for each players turn 1 to turn 3, then as the game goes on both players gain access to unlimited summons like we see as normal today. This will prevent summoning 4+ interrupts on turn one, reintroduce a early mid and long game. This could make decks change up their lists not having to main deck a bajiollion hand traps in hope to survive turn one. Sure some decks may thrive better early game now, but if those early game focused decks fail to end the game soon enough then the late game decks will be able to take advantage of unlimited summons and grind past the other deck.
Fair point, only problem is Konami will design something like rescue ace and have one monster make 4 interrupts so we’re back to square one 🤷♂️ no matter what we think of they always break it
The joys of trying to balance an ever evolving game.
An impossible tax but they can do better than this
If cost is able to be negated then its time to find a new card game
😂 well said
This "flood your board with negates" playstyle is why I've come to hate Superheavy Samurai.
I love the archetype. I desperately want to build it. But all of the popular builds use it as just an engine to projectile vomit half a dozen negates onto the board, with not even a single SHS boss monster in the ED.
What about making a pot of greed which can only be activated on the second turn and fourth turn (maybe if it’s still useless also on the sixth)
Because 2nd turn players need more resources to go around the negates.
Just draw it skillfully in your opening hand... And if you open two of it, you're still playing with five cards, assuming it's once per turn
Excellent watch. Nice video bro.
Thank you!
Dude big ASMR from this video lol, made me fall asleep last night.
Anyway, I think the problem with this is the absolutely redundant once per turn in cards nowadays. Who cares if a handtrap has a once per turn clause when games only last a maximum of 3 turns...
At this point it wouldn't matter if they made retrains of the ghost sisters with even more flexible effects and no once per turn clause.
I'm not saying I would like it tho.
Haha 😂 at least it’s not from boredom & don’t give Konami ideas, they’ll ban the current hand traps and print retrains that aren’t once per turn an 100$ a piece
You know as a kid my favorite thing about this game was that every card could be used in every deck. I could throw a random Assault Mode engine in my Lightsworn deck and it would work.
Now I think that’s a problem.
Every deck runs the same 10-15 non engine stuff like Ash Blossom, Imperm, Droplet, Dark Ruler, Nibiru etc
All to ensure they get to play the game at all
You know why Konami banned Pot of Greed? Not because it’s a busted draw spell. It’s because every single deck could run it with zero downsides so it made deckbuilding homogeneous.
Just like Upstart
But now everyone has a fourth of their deck be an exact copy paste and they don’t care.
Make it make sense
Well said, my sentiments exactly
I play super poly, kaijus, luna, eater of millions, and gren maju most of rhe time. I think the deck is both good and fun, but the fact that it's been nearly completely powerkrept out of viability is in itself a problem. If a kaiju plus Pank and super poly isn't enough the deck I'm up against is busted lol
Exactly. That deck is designed to go second and can’t… make it make sense
Got this video randomly on my feed just now. Going to subscribe. Going second is in yet another weird / bad spot right now. As with the current meta, HT's and board breakers are simply not enough. On another note. Who made the short intro with the buildings?
Appreciate that and welcome aboard,
& the intro is a small clip from a bigger video called HOME - Head First (synthwave/vaporwave)
I came back into the game about 1.5 years ago and haven't played since LOB. There was a Mt Everest sized leaning curve but I enjoyed it for the most part. After learning and playing for a little bit I did notice the problems you were mentioning. I feel like Konomi and the player base are both at fault. Konomi is not fixing any issues and the plyer base just plays the same thing over and over. I think as players we need to come out of the comfort zone and make duels different and interactive. It's not going to kill us to play some games without the crutch cards.
Great point, problem is the community is full of sheep think and when something good comes out dudes will drop a mortgage payment to win three ots packs at locals lol
I mean yeah. This boils down to an arms race/cold war. "We'll lay our nukes down if you do." " Sure sure .. you first." Pull up to a tournament with a 'fun deck' like that and see how many opponents share your mindset versus how many just roll over you turn one.
Real asf links made it so easy to just pull out whatever nonsense. Synchros Fusions, and a little less on XYZ has something that makes it harder to just pull out whatever effect but links are borderline a second normalless hand of boss monsters they should of had a built in nerf like tuners or poly (yes some of those cards work around that)
links broke the game, Konami needs to ban all links
I feel like only people who run the best decks will stick around. Everyone else left or is leaving, then those who stuck around will also eventually leave. The game might just die. Maybe not soon, but give it another four to six years. If Konami won't fix the issue, then those band-aids are gonna bleed through.
Great analysis
Amen. I just tried my newest build to see how she holds going 2nd and w/o the right combo and it can definitely be hit or miss and damn. Best hope for 2nd is your opponent going first with a trash hand
😎 that’s the best strat, pray your opponent bricks
I agree with everything you said but I don't think that they can stop making these 10 negate decks. The OCG design the cards and play the game differently, best of one and Maxx C.
Going second already sucks especially in a best of one, so Maxx C need to be legal so you can play through these boards, it also makes your opponent decide to stop mid combo so you don't get 10 cards in hand. At the same time, you need these powerful decks so you can play through your opponents 10 card hand otherwise going second is way more powerful. There's also the Maxx C mini game in every deck so your less likely to actually draw super extenders limiting the end board potential.
If you ban Maxx C and all the good decks, I still thing going second would suck and especially in a best of one format. We all know they make decks way too strong so if they were to ban Maxx C and all the good decks and then make an uber powerhouse deck, the OCG format would suck immensely and I don't think they would risk that.
It does suck though because YGO rn is "draw the out", if you do you OTK turn 2 if you don't you concede turn 2 or die turn 3
All great points
Cyber Emergency as a going 2nd card. Incredible Ecclesia too.
Both great examples 👏🏻
Tenpai with 25 handtraps has gotten me a conaistent 90% winrate every 10 best of 3 sets for the past week.
Kts probably the only functional going second deck on the format tho haha
25 hand traps?!? 😲
@@TheDuelingBeard every tenpai card except fadora is a 1 card otk. 15 engine is enough
I played a friend in new format. And the BULLSHIT i went through just cause i wanted to be less combo oriented and play normally. She barreled though me. We had fun but i didn't get past turn 2 unless we upped the life points. Thats a problem