Awesome video it actually makes since though because typically you run a rotary with a wool pad and the reason why amateurs use a DA is to not leave swirl marks not necessarily because they are worried about burning thru clear coat i would like to see this done again instead this time have the rotary with a wool pad and the other 2 with a heavy cutting foam pad because that is more realistic i would also like to see this done outside in the shade in summer because come guys, you all know better than to be polishing in direct sun light lets not be dumb awesome video i would have lost some money on a bet to.
This was an awesome video! 👌 It built my confidence in polishing my car ( I've never done this before). This was a fun video, enjoyable, and I learned so much. I watched this at the end of 2023, and it's still very effective to watch today. For a beginner or anyone that hasn't done this, it should be very useful! Thank you very much.
@@bpsdetailing8822 The results seem consistent with the physics involved. You could calculate the effect the mass would have on the rotational and shearing force but it would be minimal.
Isn't the major benefit of a DA Polisher that it will slow to eventually stop when wedging in edges or over pressure is applied? That along with the random nature of it's movement allows it to hide the more amateur polishers mistakes?
Correct, this test is fun and interesting but in real world use DA is probably better for most people. Rotary is arguably best for people who know what they’re doing and are skilled.
Don't worry about a machine. Use a foam pad and don't stop on sharp edges. Keep the pad moving and you'll be fine! And it goes much faster than hand polishing!
I had bought a rotary as a beginner to polish my cars and I was returning it for a dual action polisher today. Watched this video at the last minute haha. Gave me confidence with my rotary. Will keep it
Well, I also they should have applied SLIGHT pressure, to really show how the machine can cut, and also to keep the machine steady for the most efficient cut. But really doesn’t matter pressure or not, it’s more about keeping it steady. The rotary was not kept steady at ALL when the 3rd guy left and it had to be 2 manned.
Love Like a Hurricane im going to guess that it may have something to do with the machine stalling? As in, the rotary and forced rotation machines dont really stall out, where as the da stalls under certain angles and pressure. Thats just my guess though.
Very late answer, but I imagine it is the lack of downward pressure applied on the machines combined with the exponentially larger mechanical damage introduced from 2 actions and a much higher RPM from a free-spinning DA. I don't know the specifics of the machines used, but forced rotation/gear-driven machines have smaller throws than free-spinning DA machines, which decreases mechanical stress when all other factors are equal.
Forgive my naivety, but surely that means that the DA gives the required finish quicker? Once you have the required finish you just stop? Or am I missing something?
@@theragcompany Yeah if i had bet money i would have lost because i was rooting for the rotary to burn first. So in the case scenario for mobile detailers that work outdoors in the sun..... would this be the opposite where maybe the rotary would burn through first?
When you lighten the load on a DA and hold it perfectly flat, you will get a lot of rotation. I would like to have seen marks on the backing plates to show the rotation.
@@illusionzauto I think the results would be the same but if its that hot, the forced action would probably melt the clear coat. Because the rotary wasn't even the hottest one AND it was cutting the least amount which was interesting
Great video to watch the 3 Amigo's - Ole', demonstrating the 3 different machines with Yvan breaking through the clear coat first. Yvan has never wavered from his statement that at slow speed, you will cut much quicker than at a higher speed, which again he proved correct. Well done. Stay safe everyone with this coronavirus.
I've been using a Meguiers mt300 8mm machine on my 30' motorhome. It's NOT doing the job. I'm looking to upgrade polisher. 21mm? Rotory? Which machine do you recommend for fiberglass finish?
Makes sense if you're looking at the speed of the wheel. Rotary spins with no other motion. DA will cut faster, due to additional movement in the x-y axis. Ditto for the Forced Action. What if you used all the machines on the same setting (for example, use setting 4). Then use a wool bonnet vs foam. Which would cut the fastest?
No one mentions that the rotary pad is also smaller, causing less movement across the surface, but especially at the edges of the pad, where most of the action happens for rotaries.
Da will NOT cut faster, this video is just spreading false information. A rotary is used to buff sand scratches out of paint, an orbital is used to polish the paint.
A DA stalls, but a rotary doesn't. You put pressure on the rotary and it will cut and burn through clear. When you put pressure on a DA, it'll stall out = no cutting action. Watching this video proves that a DA cuts faster if it doesn't stall, however In the real world, you put pressure on the machine. A DA will stall, but a rotary won't, so it will definitely cut faster.
The other thing is that you will burn the paint easier with a rotary - in real life. Someone who doesn't know much about polishing can get in trouble with a rotary. Keeping the pad in the same spot, using a wool pad and pushing down - yes, you don't need 10 minutes to cut through the clear. @@Mercenercen11
David Olsen remember this was with one type of pad and one type of polish. We could have used heavy cutting pads and heavier compound but we chose a middle ground for this test.
@@MasterOfShine Would you use a DA or Rotary for your first step on a car that was in rough shape? I would usually use my Rotary to do the first cut followed by my DA but after watching this video I am considering switching that around.
@@theragcompany I love my rotary but for efficiency it seems that a DA is the way to go because it cuts faster, which means less passes/time per section. Thoughts?
@@MasterOfShine This video is making me rethink my process. It seems like I should be using my DA for my first pass instead of my Rotary because it cuts faster which means I could get the job done faster. Thoughts?
I think since zero pressure was being applied (not practical in the real world), the DA broke first because the oscillating action may have inadvertently caused more friction vs the consistent behavior of the Rotary polisher. That's my theory anyway. Would be interesting to see the results with pressure and some identical movement. Regardless, this was an excellent video!
@@fastinactivity Might be interesting but foam pads are the most consistent on all machine's. Anything else will lean more to rotary or dual action movement.
@@fastinactivity Agreed! But also use all the machines at the same setting - isn't this how we use machines? I don't know the rpm of any of my machines. I just use the setting based on feel, pad and polish.
I wondered why they didn’t equalize the weight as they are likely not the same. Since they were testing potential to break through with identical pads, compound, and rpm, that could be a major variable. Same with tests of temp, thickness, and IR camera. Weight differences could change any of those. Still interesting - just a little flawed as a true test.
@@836dmar I’d say equalizing the weight would invalidate the test. The idea is which machine on its own would break through first. By simply being lighter the rotary will break through last. And generally a rotary will be lighter than a dual action or forced action. Someone new to polishing using each of these tools and applying equal pressure with each will likely burn through with the da before a rotary would. Real world though, I think someone new would likely crank up the speed on a rotary due to impatience and more likely burn through because of that.
@@bobstorr4986 Also take into consideration how deadly rotaries are on panel edges when hit with the very edge of the pad. The edge of the pad is what rotates the fastest and has the most cutting power. Newbies hitting/letting the polisher skip off onto an edge can burn through it in seconds. I burned through with DA once in 4 years of polishing cars daily and it was on an edge (on my car so no harm done) which i sanded two times then polished with a heavy cut pad and compound. Burned through with rotary on a lot of test panels when i was learning. The test has nothing to do with how it works in real life, DA polishers are way safer because they slow down or outright stop their rotation when you hit an edge or a dangerous curve. Also they move around the edges in orbital motion, not constantly rotating and grinding through it.
@@benruthlessburger8905 Well, nobody seems to be interested about this but us. I would like to see a properly set up test, it would be interesting information to have.
I thought about this, but in a realistic setting, varying amounts of pressure will be applied to the paint, so using the weight of the motors as the force seems like a fair test
@@lukefernandez3492 If you really want to know and compare specific trait for each type of machine, then you would control for weight too. Because all machines available in the market have different weights, for each machine of the same type you would've got different results all else the same, so that will skew your results even more. You cannot compare anything without removing all bias, you just needed a heavier Rotary and all your conclusions would be wrong. I don't even care about your results, I just don't agree at all with your methodology. And if you're going to debunk myths, you better stand by your method.
Pretty interesting! The weight of the machines is a major factor in a test like this, so sadly this test doesn't really mean anything (unless someone owns the exact machines used in the video and polishes without applying any weight to the machine when polishing which is almost impossible) The machines should be running with the same force or weight to make the test accurate. Weight should have been added to the lighter machines to match the weight of the heaviest machine. Even zip lock bags of sand taped to the lighter machines would work. The rotary machines are generally much lighter than DA machines - DA polishers are probably twice the weight of the rotary.
I really think you’re right about the weight of the machines. Years ago I used to work in car production and we were using air powered buffers that weigh a ton and we were burning paint almost daily. I guess fresh paint , wet sanding and heavy polishers don’t mix very well lol.
if you looking on reading after 1 minutes LEVI has de high reading on depht even big the starting because the paint is hot but if you look on temperature him run cooler
What’s the difference in DA vs forced rotation. I understand forced rotation. Is there a difference in finished product between the 2? Rotary is great for applying sealant and waxes. Is it just personal preference between forced and DA? Now does forced rotation also Radom orbit?
Best comment of the show "heat does NOT cut". EXACTLY. Heat is the LACK of cut. Heat comes from energy being but into the workpiece, but material not being efficiently removed.
lol. That isn’t what heat is. It’s the byproduct of in this case friction which is avoidable to an extent but required to do the job. Friction always causes heat and you cannot do anything from polishing to sanding to cutting sheet metal without it.
Not trying to be hater but it’s a dumb test. The machines all weigh different so the “no pressure” doesn’t really apply. Also I’ve been a painter for almost 20 years and there are no bubbles in clear coat.
Through my years of training this video doesn't quite add up. Normal everyday rotary use would most likely go through first for most users.(pressure+heat) Now different surfaces do make a difference with heat created like a plastic bumper for example. I do agree that the myth that DA's don't cut is false.
It depends on the paint these guys are not real professional detailers I am over 20 years now a DA forced rotation will burn through the clear coat if you don’t no what you are doing
I might have missed something. I've watched this and looked in the description and comments but can't tell exactly which Rupes DA you are using. Only the Rupes rotary and the Flex are mentioned in the comments. Is this a 15mm or 21mm throw polisher? I believe the Flex is an 8mm? Seems like the throw would have an impact here.
A couple major flaws to the test here. Had you primed the pads across the entire surface area, as we do in real life, the lack of migration to the edges of the pad would not have been the factor it was, greatly affecting the outcome of the test. Also, what is the weight difference of the heads of the machines? Unless that was the same, you didn't accurately compare the cutting effectiveness of each type of machine. Interesting test none the less.
Great video. My polisher finally gave up on me and I was wondering what kind I should get. This really helped me out a lot. Now I know what to get. My paint is pretty old but is in great shape. I really take care of it. Thanks so much for making this video. It was fun to watch.
The weight is the very obvious difference here, as friction is a product of the friction coefficient and the normal force (downward force) on the object. Because dual action polishers require more mechanical parts in the head, they are going to produce a higher normal force on their own. This isn't necessary an accurate representation of which one will burn through faster unless they were to compensate for the lower normal force on the rotary (plus this isn't really how a polisher is going to be used in the field).
The rotary having a smaller pad means the outermost edge of pad that is touching is moving slower than the other two pads which look bigger. If two identical cars axles are going the same rpm but one has 19 inch tires and the other 15, which is going to cover more ground? More ground, more friction.
I own the three machines. Been meaning to sell my 3401; haven't used it in years. At one time, though, it was either the PC or a rotary. Then the Flex came out and a lot of us bought it. Next to a Rupes, it feels like steering an old truck. 20 years experience with a rotary and so little cut? Okey-dokey. FWIW, weight wise, my rotary is the heaviest, followed by the Flex, and then the Rupes. Not surprised by the final results. Interesting to know the Flex ran hottest.
@@willsrestorations That's ok, I'm entitled to my delusions, I'm just a hack anyway. Actually I'm pretty retarded. Since you have been in the business for so long I'm sure you have all the answers anyway, not sure what you are doing watching something so below you and your skillset. Have a wonderful rest of your day.
Makes me more comfortable, I washed my car today and I hand polished the spots and it looks great. This a brand new car. Hard water spots here and there. Waiting for more products to come in to try to remove them. I have a random orbital unit. Man it's hot outside, that A/C in the garage is not far away!
Alright man wtf... It's in the pad/compound and the user. I would hate to see people in mass swapping to rotary thinking it's safer or even as user friendly as a DA. They would finish with their blue car with a once orange pad looking blue... The guy with the rotary knows when to back off pressure and the importance of keeping the machine moving, taking advantage of its advantage: SPEED. It's faster with a rotary. It's a scalpel. The rotary doesn't slowdown the more pressure that is applied! It keeps cutting and cutting so keep moving or you'll ruin paint. I was surprised lbs pressure wasn't really measured and based solely on the weight of the machine. These are all different machines. Add 8lbs of pressure on one spot at cutting speed for 10 seconds and see the real world difference. What I noticed was the DA was mostly stationary. The rotary was working in passes and rightly so because if not that thing would burn. You'd have to mount each machine with identical pads and compound to a robotic arm which applies equal lbs pressure and programmed to move or remain stationary to gauge real differences. People aren't machines. Practice rotary on some old hood in the backyard because it's a different animal. You can literally sand wood with it with the right attachment. Try sanding wood with some old porter cable.
And if you hold the polisher in a certain spot that long you don't need to be using it anyways. You're only supposed to do four to seven good passes because when doing passes it allows the panel to cool as you're coming back
Love the content and information! Can you fix the “bubbles” mentioned around 14.30… just bought a new to me SUV and the hood has them and what looks to be a burn through spot developing as well. Any help appreciated!
The improvements with today's DA polishers; with the increased power, long throw, improved pads, forced action; has allowed them to equal and surpass the rotary in regards to cutting now. However, it takes a quality DA such as a Rupes or Flex (etc) to do so. Otherwise, the vast majority of DA's could never outperform my heavy Milwaukee rotary with cutting. I've buffed well over 10k vehicles professionally (14 yrs, retired) and have used both. The improvements to the DA's, in regards to power, has been very impressive. The rotary is still superior at finishing though.
I think showing a typical 10 pounds of pressure would have benefitted the test. In addition, I believe this test gives a false sense of security to those with little experience. And the easiest way to do that would be to strap on 10# flat weights.
Awesome video it actually makes since though because typically you run a rotary with a wool pad and the reason why amateurs use a DA is to not leave swirl marks not necessarily because they are worried about burning thru clear coat i would like to see this done again instead this time have the rotary with a wool pad and the other 2 with a heavy cutting foam pad because that is more realistic i would also like to see this done outside in the shade in summer because come guys, you all know better than to be polishing in direct sun light lets not be dumb awesome video i would have lost some money on a bet to.
Good to see how long it takes to break through the clear coat. As a newby, this is very helpful!
This was an awesome video! 👌
It built my confidence in polishing my car ( I've never done this before). This was a fun video, enjoyable, and I learned so much. I watched this at the end of 2023, and it's still very effective to watch today. For a beginner or anyone that hasn't done this, it should be very useful! Thank you very much.
I'd love to know if the weight of the polishers was taken Into consideration
Between my lhr19, lhr21mk3, and Mille, the Mille feels the heaviest at the pad end which makes sense with the addition of the gearing inside.
It was not, so the test is almost pointless.
@@bpsdetailing8822 The results seem consistent with the physics involved. You could calculate the effect the mass would have on the rotational and shearing force but it would be minimal.
@@bpsdetailing8822 What formula would you recommend to best quantify the solid mechanics involved?
@@KWW0321Nonlinear Dynamics.
Isn't the major benefit of a DA Polisher that it will slow to eventually stop when wedging in edges or over pressure is applied? That along with the random nature of it's movement allows it to hide the more amateur polishers mistakes?
Correct, this test is fun and interesting but in real world use DA is probably better for most people. Rotary is arguably best for people who know what they’re doing and are skilled.
This really does give me more confidence to try a machine instead of hand polishing
This means so much to me thank you
No need to be afraid of a machine, if you’re concerned try first on a junk yard panel.
Detailers Business Academy, with Yvan Lacroix once I buy stuff for paint correction I’m gona buy some junk hoods to sit out in weather to try products
Don't worry about a machine. Use a foam pad and don't stop on sharp edges. Keep the pad moving and you'll be fine! And it goes much faster than hand polishing!
Me too homie
These guys have respect for each other and it’s hard to find that in the car detailing business
What?
Can you extrapolate to gelcoat? Which of the 3 machines would you buy as the only manchine to gelcoat maintenance?
That was so interestful. Over 10 minutes in the same patch with an orange pad and no pressure to cut through from 125 microns to 80 microns.
I had bought a rotary as a beginner to polish my cars and I was returning it for a dual action polisher today. Watched this video at the last minute haha. Gave me confidence with my rotary. Will keep it
this is a superb test, how the hell does it have so few views? thermal camera and everything set up
It's too scientific to non detailer people. Only detailers enjoy this kind of video
Well, I also they should have applied SLIGHT pressure, to really show how the machine can cut, and also to keep the machine steady for the most efficient cut. But really doesn’t matter pressure or not, it’s more about keeping it steady. The rotary was not kept steady at ALL when the 3rd guy left and it had to be 2 manned.
Because it’s boring.
Great video. Would you mind sharing a link to the pad cleaner you were using?
Can someone explain why only the Da polisher was used to clean the pad and not the forced rotation?
Love Like a Hurricane im going to guess that it may have something to do with the machine stalling? As in, the rotary and forced rotation machines dont really stall out, where as the da stalls under certain angles and pressure. Thats just my guess though.
What is more recommended for beginners I want to cut and buff my car just painted it what do you recommend
Where can I buy that pad cleaner?
It’s a lake county system 4000
Do you guys think the weight of the da cause it to break through first?
Very late answer, but I imagine it is the lack of downward pressure applied on the machines combined with the exponentially larger mechanical damage introduced from 2 actions and a much higher RPM from a free-spinning DA. I don't know the specifics of the machines used, but forced rotation/gear-driven machines have smaller throws than free-spinning DA machines, which decreases mechanical stress when all other factors are equal.
Forgive my naivety, but surely that means that the DA gives the required finish quicker? Once you have the required finish you just stop? Or am I missing something?
Wow a DA going through the clear first and the rotary didn't? OH MY WORD.
@@theragcompany Yeah if i had bet money i would have lost because i was rooting for the rotary to burn first. So in the case scenario for mobile detailers that work outdoors in the sun..... would this be the opposite where maybe the rotary would burn through first?
I guess it would be interesting to do one test in the sunlight, my guess is, things would level up, if not the same results as this test.
Detailers with $300 Bigfoots on life support
When you lighten the load on a DA and hold it perfectly flat, you will get a lot of rotation. I would like to have seen marks on the backing plates to show the rotation.
@@illusionzauto I think the results would be the same but if its that hot, the forced action would probably melt the clear coat. Because the rotary wasn't even the hottest one AND it was cutting the least amount which was interesting
Such an informative and fun video. Watched the whole thing!!
So is rotary the best / safest polisher to use?
The person holding the polisher is what makes it safe or dangerous.
Wow strangely one of the most interesting detailing videos I’ve watched. Thanks guys think this will help a lot of folk
Mally Mac it was fun to make as well.
Great video to watch the 3 Amigo's - Ole', demonstrating the 3 different machines with Yvan breaking through the clear coat first. Yvan has never wavered from his statement that at slow speed, you will cut much quicker than at a higher speed, which again he proved correct. Well done. Stay safe everyone with this coronavirus.
Try a cutting wool pad on that rotary and see will it burn through the clear coat.
Sir Yvan in a hoodie? I don’t believe my eyes!
He is a fan of comfort and efficiency!
The TRC swag is so comfortable and well made, I couldn’t resist.
😂
Was the amount pressure used the same amount doing a customers car?
In my case, yes.
No wonder Yvan polishes so fast, he can hold two machines!
He is amazing!
That mustache alone is legendary.
I've been using a Meguiers mt300 8mm machine on my 30' motorhome. It's NOT doing the job. I'm looking to upgrade polisher. 21mm? Rotory? Which machine do you recommend for fiberglass finish?
Makes sense if you're looking at the speed of the wheel. Rotary spins with no other motion. DA will cut faster, due to additional movement in the x-y axis. Ditto for the Forced Action.
What if you used all the machines on the same setting (for example, use setting 4). Then use a wool bonnet vs foam. Which would cut the fastest?
No one mentions that the rotary pad is also smaller, causing less movement across the surface, but especially at the edges of the pad, where most of the action happens for rotaries.
Da will NOT cut faster, this video is just spreading false information. A rotary is used to buff sand scratches out of paint, an orbital is used to polish the paint.
A DA stalls, but a rotary doesn't. You put pressure on the rotary and it will cut and burn through clear. When you put pressure on a DA, it'll stall out = no cutting action.
Watching this video proves that a DA cuts faster if it doesn't stall, however In the real world, you put pressure on the machine. A DA will stall, but a rotary won't, so it will definitely cut faster.
The other thing is that you will burn the paint easier with a rotary - in real life. Someone who doesn't know much about polishing can get in trouble with a rotary. Keeping the pad in the same spot, using a wool pad and pushing down - yes, you don't need 10 minutes to cut through the clear. @@Mercenercen11
So this means a long throw dual action polisher is the best for cutting? Where and when would you use a rotary in your Detailing process?
following
David Olsen remember this was with one type of pad and one type of polish. We could have used heavy cutting pads and heavier compound but we chose a middle ground for this test.
@@MasterOfShine Would you use a DA or Rotary for your first step on a car that was in rough shape? I would usually use my Rotary to do the first cut followed by my DA but after watching this video I am considering switching that around.
@@theragcompany I love my rotary but for efficiency it seems that a DA is the way to go because it cuts faster, which means less passes/time per section. Thoughts?
@@MasterOfShine This video is making me rethink my process. It seems like I should be using my DA for my first pass instead of my Rotary because it cuts faster which means I could get the job done faster. Thoughts?
Guy in the middle it’s moving around as to the other 2 guys staying in one spot no wonder he’s always got the lowest numbers.
I think since zero pressure was being applied (not practical in the real world), the DA broke first because the oscillating action may have inadvertently caused more friction vs the consistent behavior of the Rotary polisher. That's my theory anyway. Would be interesting to see the results with pressure and some identical movement. Regardless, this was an excellent video!
Rotary way better all round been in the refinish business for years and if you know how to use a rotary there way better
@@gerryr1893 That has been debunked for a while now bud. Rotary and DA is needed for a perfect finish.
@@omedonnie so start with a da then finish with rotoray?
@@omedonnie if u can’t finish with a rotary then you ain’t no real buffman.
@@greekmaster1001 start with rotary to mow thru the man scratches then follow up with a polish and Rupes yellow pad on a DA
The best channel for us aspiring detailers, this channel is more like a precious and most informative academy rather than just a TH-cam channel.
I have all three polisher and thought that the most cut would be in this order: rotary, flex, DA. Eye opening for sure! Thanks guys, Loved it!
T M Definitely surprised me!!
Like you I have all 3 polishers and got far more predictable results
Would be nice to see with a foamed wool pad instead
@@fastinactivity Might be interesting but foam pads are the most consistent on all machine's. Anything else will lean more to rotary or dual action movement.
@@fastinactivity Agreed! But also use all the machines at the same setting - isn't this how we use machines? I don't know the rpm of any of my machines. I just use the setting based on feel, pad and polish.
Try doing the same thing but with 5 lbs of pressure on each and see what happens...
Rotary and forced would definitely break through first
I wondered why they didn’t equalize the weight as they are likely not the same. Since they were testing potential to break through with identical pads, compound, and rpm, that could be a major variable. Same with tests of temp, thickness, and IR camera. Weight differences could change any of those. Still interesting - just a little flawed as a true test.
@@836dmar I’d say equalizing the weight would invalidate the test. The idea is which machine on its own would break through first. By simply being lighter the rotary will break through last. And generally a rotary will be lighter than a dual action or forced action.
Someone new to polishing using each of these tools and applying equal pressure with each will likely burn through with the da before a rotary would.
Real world though, I think someone new would likely crank up the speed on a rotary due to impatience and more likely burn through because of that.
@@bobstorr4986 Also take into consideration how deadly rotaries are on panel edges when hit with the very edge of the pad. The edge of the pad is what rotates the fastest and has the most cutting power. Newbies hitting/letting the polisher skip off onto an edge can burn through it in seconds. I burned through with DA once in 4 years of polishing cars daily and it was on an edge (on my car so no harm done) which i sanded two times then polished with a heavy cut pad and compound. Burned through with rotary on a lot of test panels when i was learning. The test has nothing to do with how it works in real life, DA polishers are way safer because they slow down or outright stop their rotation when you hit an edge or a dangerous curve. Also they move around the edges in orbital motion, not constantly rotating and grinding through it.
Your test didn’t separate for the machine weight variable, and pad pressure does influence cut ability, yes? Is the rotary the lightest machine?
Exactly
@@benruthlessburger8905 Well, nobody seems to be interested about this but us. I would like to see a properly set up test, it would be interesting information to have.
I thought about this, but in a realistic setting, varying amounts of pressure will be applied to the paint, so using the weight of the motors as the force seems like a fair test
@@lukefernandez3492 If you really want to know and compare specific trait for each type of machine, then you would control for weight too. Because all machines available in the market have different weights, for each machine of the same type you would've got different results all else the same, so that will skew your results even more. You cannot compare anything without removing all bias, you just needed a heavier Rotary and all your conclusions would be wrong. I don't even care about your results, I just don't agree at all with your methodology. And if you're going to debunk myths, you better stand by your method.
So random orbit with forced rotation is good? I plan to get the cordless Makita 18VT polisher...any thoughts ?
And how is it going 2 years on
Pretty interesting! The weight of the machines is a major factor in a test like this, so sadly this test doesn't really mean anything (unless someone owns the exact machines used in the video and polishes without applying any weight to the machine when polishing which is almost impossible) The machines should be running with the same force or weight to make the test accurate. Weight should have been added to the lighter machines to match the weight of the heaviest machine. Even zip lock bags of sand taped to the lighter machines would work. The rotary machines are generally much lighter than DA machines - DA polishers are probably twice the weight of the rotary.
I really think you’re right about the weight of the machines. Years ago I used to work in car production and we were using air powered buffers that weigh a ton and we were burning paint almost daily. I guess fresh paint , wet sanding and heavy polishers don’t mix very well lol.
This guys don’t no shit they act like they do and they don’t they just feed viewers false information all clear coat is different
yes is many variable. LEVI is cheating there .small pad diameter. low rpm
if you looking on reading after 1 minutes LEVI has de high reading on depht even big the starting because the paint is hot but if you look on temperature him run cooler
after 14 minutes Levi allmost not cut nothing ,magic .whit rotary? this is 20 years experience
What’s the difference in DA vs forced rotation. I understand forced rotation. Is there a difference in finished product between the 2? Rotary is great for applying sealant and waxes. Is it just personal preference between forced and DA? Now does forced rotation also Radom orbit?
Witch style of buffer would you use for someone who's never done machine polishing
We usually recommend DA or Forced Rotation!
Great video guys. Maybe this will take some of fear out people that are scared of the rotary.
When Ivan mentioned the bubbles in the clear coat, how do those get there?
3:07 Levi was sleeping at the lights.
Good vid thanks.
Best comment of the show "heat does NOT cut". EXACTLY. Heat is the LACK of cut. Heat comes from energy being but into the workpiece, but material not being efficiently removed.
lol. That isn’t what heat is. It’s the byproduct of in this case friction which is avoidable to an extent but required to do the job. Friction always causes heat and you cannot do anything from polishing to sanding to cutting sheet metal without it.
Not trying to be hater but it’s a dumb test. The machines all weigh different so the “no pressure” doesn’t really apply. Also I’ve been a painter for almost 20 years and there are no bubbles in clear coat.
I agree weight is another variable that can affect the result.
Where can i find that pad washer?
Through my years of training this video doesn't quite add up. Normal everyday rotary use would most likely go through first for most users.(pressure+heat) Now different surfaces do make a difference with heat created like a plastic bumper for example. I do agree that the myth that DA's don't cut is false.
Thanks guys! Definitely eased my rotary anxiety
Brandon Munoz it takes a while to master, but nothing to be scared of. Slow is the easiest way to start!
Hi
Please suggest which polishing machine is good for swirl marks removal and gloss finish dual action or rotary.
This was reassuring that I can compound and polish my car when it's needed and not destroy it
It depends on the paint these guys are not real professional detailers I am over 20 years now a DA forced rotation will burn through the clear coat if you don’t no what you are doing
This is so my kind of video. Long and detailed. LOVE IT!
@@theragcompany If you ever think, "This is too long and we went down a rabbit hole." you are doing it right.
Jonathan Beckham Thank you!
Why was there no pressure being applied to the left polisher when the middle and right polishers had slight pressure?
Very helpful for all of us diyers! Thank you very much. Takes a lot of the anxiety out of polishing!
Glad we could help! 👍
I might have missed something. I've watched this and looked in the description and comments but can't tell exactly which Rupes DA you are using. Only the Rupes rotary and the Flex are mentioned in the comments. Is this a 15mm or 21mm throw polisher? I believe the Flex is an 8mm? Seems like the throw would have an impact here.
The 21mm stroke DA is a Zentool
A couple major flaws to the test here. Had you primed the pads across the entire surface area, as we do in real life, the lack of migration to the edges of the pad would not have been the factor it was, greatly affecting the outcome of the test. Also, what is the weight difference of the heads of the machines? Unless that was the same, you didn't accurately compare the cutting effectiveness of each type of machine. Interesting test none the less.
Very nice test, thank you! Which DA was used by Yvan? How long the throw it had (15 or 21 mm)?
So which one would u recommend for someone starting to do paing correct or even just a 1 step polish??
Great video. My polisher finally gave up on me and I was wondering what kind I should get. This really helped me out a lot. Now I know what to get. My paint is pretty old but is in great shape. I really take care of it. Thanks so much for making this video. It was fun to watch.
I’m pretty sure the Diet Pepsi can on the hood, fresh out of the New Air fridge, gave Levi an unfair advantage.
G Davis it did!
Master Of Shine 😀👍
That hood was a blend panel and had atleast one refinish clear coat over the OEM clear
I feel like the Rotary has the least weight over the pad compared to DAs and subsequently failed to show it's true slaying power in this test.
The Rag Company Correct, they were all pretty even.
Wow! Wasn't the selling point of the DA polisher when it first came out was that it was much safer to use than a rotary especially for amateurs
What are the rpms? I feel like that’s really important
Did you take in consideration the weight of the machines?
My flex 3401 seems heavier than my rupes mark 3.
The weight is the very obvious difference here, as friction is a product of the friction coefficient and the normal force (downward force) on the object. Because dual action polishers require more mechanical parts in the head, they are going to produce a higher normal force on their own. This isn't necessary an accurate representation of which one will burn through faster unless they were to compensate for the lower normal force on the rotary (plus this isn't really how a polisher is going to be used in the field).
There’s no way anyone do one handed buffing on a regular basis.... so doing a test with one hand is kinda ridiculous......
Are the pads the Lake Country Force, or HDO?
What is name of 1st polisher(Random Orbital)? maybe you forgot write in description
Actually it was a generic 21mm polisher that I had in the bus.
Optimum (21E2) Zentool ZEN-21E2 Dual Action Polisher www.amazon.com/dp/B078BQDZ9M/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glc_fabc_dQs0FbEWCY0NP
The rotary having a smaller pad means the outermost edge of pad that is touching is moving slower than the other two pads which look bigger.
If two identical cars axles are going the same rpm but one has 19 inch tires and the other 15, which is going to cover more ground?
More ground, more friction.
Does anybody know where to get the pad cleaner they used to clean the pads after they get a lot of product on them.
Hallo nice video which machine is better to learn and easier to learn and do not make damage..
What the name machine dual action your using?
! ! ! AWESOME ! ! !
! ! ! EXCELLENT ! ! !
! ! ! CRUCIAL ! ! !
! ! ! SIMPLY, THE BEST POLISHERS COMPARATIVE REPORT EVER ! ! !
! ! ! THANK YOU GUYS VERY SO MUCH ! ! !
Best Regards !
Ed
Weekend Warrior
São Paulo, SP
I own the three machines. Been meaning to sell my 3401; haven't used it in years. At one time, though, it was either the PC or a rotary. Then the Flex came out and a lot of us bought it. Next to a Rupes, it feels like steering an old truck. 20 years experience with a rotary and so little cut? Okey-dokey. FWIW, weight wise, my rotary is the heaviest, followed by the Flex, and then the Rupes. Not surprised by the final results. Interesting to know the Flex ran hottest.
Would there be any way to fix where Ivan went through in that small spot. Or at least make it better to try to hide it.
When he first went through the clear
Usually point of no return when you burn through the clear. Repaint is needed.
DK 512 agreed
This is actually some great info, thanks for taking the time to do this test to show your findings for what they are! Keep the videos comming
Final Touch Auto Detailing llc Your welcome!!
@@willsrestorations That's ok, I'm entitled to my delusions, I'm just a hack anyway. Actually I'm pretty retarded. Since you have been in the business for so long I'm sure you have all the answers anyway, not sure what you are doing watching something so below you and your skillset. Have a wonderful rest of your day.
Makes me more comfortable, I washed my car today and I hand polished the spots and it looks great. This a brand new car. Hard water spots here and there. Waiting for more products to come in to try to remove them. I have a random orbital unit. Man it's hot outside, that A/C in the garage is not far away!
So for ground breaking results do this in the winter?
Why can’t you use the forced rotation machine on the pad cleaner?
Hey what's that device with the numbers.
Alright man wtf...
It's in the pad/compound and the user. I would hate to see people in mass swapping to rotary thinking it's safer or even as user friendly as a DA. They would finish with their blue car with a once orange pad looking blue...
The guy with the rotary knows when to back off pressure and the importance of keeping the machine moving, taking advantage of its advantage: SPEED. It's faster with a rotary. It's a scalpel. The rotary doesn't slowdown the more pressure that is applied! It keeps cutting and cutting so keep moving or you'll ruin paint.
I was surprised lbs pressure wasn't really measured and based solely on the weight of the machine. These are all different machines.
Add 8lbs of pressure on one spot at cutting speed for 10 seconds and see the real world difference. What I noticed was the DA was mostly stationary. The rotary was working in passes and rightly so because if not that thing would burn.
You'd have to mount each machine with identical pads and compound to a robotic arm which applies equal lbs pressure and programmed to move or remain stationary to gauge real differences.
People aren't machines. Practice rotary on some old hood in the backyard because it's a different animal. You can literally sand wood with it with the right attachment. Try sanding wood with some old porter cable.
What pad cleaning device are you using in the video?
Hi cool video. May i ask... Did the paint gauge meter measure from surface to end of clear coat or surface to bare metal. Thanks.
To bare metal, they've mentioned it sometime in the video.
And if you hold the polisher in a certain spot that long you don't need to be using it anyways. You're only supposed to do four to seven good passes because when doing passes it allows the panel to cool as you're coming back
Where can I get the pad cleaning tool mate
Really helpful video, btw no dull moments in detailing. Love ya guys
charissa thomas Thanks so much!!!
What’s your favorite Polisher Machine so far?
Okay, great video but, which one of the three polishers is the best all-rounder?
Love the content and information! Can you fix the “bubbles” mentioned around 14.30… just bought a new to me SUV and the hood has them and what looks to be a burn through spot developing as well. Any help appreciated!
Now repeat the test using a wool pad and another test with a microfiber pad! Really surprised on how low the temp was with the rotary
Ian Musgrove microfiber would have been hotter. Wool would have been cooler
Also to consider is how hard it is to hold in one place. If there had been a means to do the test "hands off" with a means to minimize movement....
I’m a 63 year old woman & I’m using a DA Polisher for the first time. Easy peasy! Cousin John, you’re exaggerating to the extreme 🙄
@@GreenWitch1 is it cordless or corded? the battery ones are heavier
The improvements with today's DA polishers; with the increased power, long throw, improved pads, forced action; has allowed them to equal and surpass the rotary in regards to cutting now. However, it takes a quality DA such as a Rupes or Flex (etc) to do so. Otherwise, the vast majority of DA's could never outperform my heavy Milwaukee rotary with cutting. I've buffed well over 10k vehicles professionally (14 yrs, retired) and have used both. The improvements to the DA's, in regards to power, has been very impressive. The rotary is still superior at finishing though.
Okay so what’s the difference in DA vs forced I’m confused lol
What is the rotary RPM you were using ?
What means when polishing you have same color paint on pad?
Great vid how do you like that paint thickness gauge?
What did you clean the pads on?
Lake country pad cleaner system 4000... $150usd plus cleaner aditive $2usd.
Best video ever!! Truly well done
Amazing and interresting video!
I have no idea how much cutting power said compound has, but what about Meguiars M101 or M100?
I think showing a typical 10 pounds of pressure would have benefitted the test. In addition, I believe this test gives a false sense of security to those with little experience. And the easiest way to do that would be to strap on 10# flat weights.
I never heard any mention of how much throw each machine has?
Which one is the fastest and easiest to use and get the Job done