Model 3 has 96 cells in series. 403V when fully charged and 278V when discharged. So Tesla allows the cells to operate from 2,9V to 4,2V. That's a good decision from them. The cells are (in regular daily use) never really discharged below 3V even though it would be fine to discharge them to 2,5V but there is not a lot of energy left in them between 3V and 2,5V anyway so it is not worth it. And Tesla does not recommend to charge the car to 100% all the time and that makes a lot of sense because if you only charge the cells to 4,1V instead of 4,2V you are already doubling the max expected lifetime of the battery. That really shows the excellent battery management that all Teslas have.
Thank you for doing this and putting your own car on the line. I'm really looking forward to the "setup" video too, I'm tempted to get this OBD link as I really like this type of numbers :)
Thanar - You asked about setting up a server - You can do that with "Teslamate" I think it's great I love it. You set up your own self hosted data logger for Tesla which logs additional information about your trips including temperatures, elevation changes during trips etc as well as the internals of the car. A mate of mine helped me set it up and he said he sent an email to Björn last week about it with links etc, but never got a reply from him
The Nominal Full Pack is what I was referring to being able to read out in my comment in your earlier video. I recommend using minimum cell temp as that is the value the BMS uses to dictate charging/regen limits. We of course have voltage and current of both the 12v battery as well as the DC DC converter, and hundreds of other items. Only a few things are in the app, but you can log and decode everything later for more sleuthing
@@Firecul Also, AGMs should only be discharged to 50% SOC for best cycle life. I think that the program lets it discharge to less than that so they only last 2 years or so. Marine batteries usually last 4 or 5 years when 50% rule is followed.
@@kasmopaya2676 thanks .. thats exactly the vid i mentioned ^^ tho i think he did a minor error at the end when calculating the kWh he got from the pack .. he used the full 499km from the display and multiplied it by 152 Wh/km .. so his estimation is likely to high .. but the rest of the video is really good
This cable might not work for cars made before Late 2018 some might had them earlier than 2019. Tesla changed the plug. Mine was built in Aug 2018, it has a white plug in the back of the console, not the new (I think blue) one with new 26 pin out. Though they may went back to white connectors for 2019s.
Panasonic cells can go down to 2.5 volts according to specs. I discharged (accidentally) a couple of cells to 0.0 volts, and they came to life and are still in use without any measurable loss in capacity.
@@teslakiller6959 ScanMyTesla is WRONGLY displaying "SOC" and "SOC UI". The app obviously has those 2 inverted. And if it was true the car can go below 0% of charge, then logic says there is MORE energy than stated by Tesla, not less.
At battery 278 V = cell 2.90 V car claims 57 kW max power. 57 kW is >0.7 C, if you pull anywhere near that that kind of power at so low voltage the cell voltage would drop well below minimum voltage and will cause cell degradation.
Awww i hoped you would go down to 2.8 cell voltage. I suspect the car decides when to shut down by the lowest cell voltage to prevent damage, and that the state of charge is just there for the range estimation and the % display.
dont forget to release bonnet (hood) catch and power socket flap 1st if running totally flat...I seem to remember the recovery guy last time couldnt open the hood if the 12v batt was totally flat :)
Nice Bjørn, I also did a lot of datalogging with ScanMyTesla on my Model 3. For example, interesting to see the difference between "Charge total" and "Drive total".... See a disclaimer on the site or developer.
Nominal cell Voltage is 3,7 V usually for NMC battery cells. I don't know what type of precise chemistries cells and architecture Tesla using in M 3 but below 3 V is very dangerous.
I'd have been curious to see what would have happened if you had turned off the heater when it was low, before charging, and to see if the battery voltage recovered after a few minutes. Then maybe repeat that a few times if there was a recovery? I'm also surprised the heating power level stayed almost constant.
I think it did do something, when the soc got to zero for a while it was going to minus something then resetting itself back to zero although the absolute soc was still dropping. I guess it was finding it’s new zero.
Well, looking at the current time, the car is still charging. Bjørn could have livestreamed the charging process though for the hardcore followers... 😂
yes pls make a video about what to install and all that stuff .. and the rough cost .. i am playing with the thought of getting one myself and permanently monitor all the things ohh and very important question .. does this app support horizontal mode .. since i would mount it horizontally where the normal spedometer would be ^^
Can you make a video showing the installation of your OBD2 port? also, can you please comment on why the port that is for sale on the website seems to only be for model 3 is produced in 2019+ ?
Wait until you start seeing the stator temps during “preconditioning for Supercharging” when navigating to a Tesla Supercharger...and how hot it will actually heat up the batteries before arriving at a supercharger. Spoiler, 45°C!
Scan My Tesla looks awesome -- doesn't seem like there's an iOS version. There are impassioned arguments and rationales on /s/teslamotors claiming that calibrating the battery is a myth and has no impact on reported range. So part 2 of video (along with the app) can help us get to the truth.
There is an iOS version of the app. Not distributed on the appstore for the moment but available via the TestFlight Beta program if you purchase the cable. That’s what I did.
Not sure why you are worried so much about the low SoC. The completely discharged State is bad for the battery but being fully charged is much worse according to the CEO of E3DC.
Thanks Bjørn - looking forward to the result. This is the correct procedure - yes it is slow (11 kW charging should also be OK). Depending on the Tesla algorithm it might need to be repeated. I need to get this SW and start looking for the OBD port.
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Bjørn, why do you recommend a separate Bluetooth dongle in the description, as one seem to be already included with the adapter bundle?
Bjørn Nyland They seems to sell a bluetooth adapter at this point. Ordered the whole pack (Cable and ODBII adapter). Thank you for discovering Scan my Tesla.
Your canbus data from scanmytesla did show a 3.3 KWH "Energy Buffer". If you run all the way to zero, does the energy buffer start decreasing below zero?
Hey Björn, is travelling in Norway easily possible for regular EU citizens? What about the cost of charging or toll roads and bridges? I'm thinking about making a rod trip when I get my new i3.
Hi Bjorn I live at UK and thinking of getting a Model 3 as my first electric car. What are your thoughts of Model 3 at the end of 2019 and beginning of 2020 with loads of EV coming around? Is it sensible to get the model 3 now? Please advice.
You should be displaying minimum cell voltage if you go this low. Logically, that would determine the point when the contactor would open for safety. I don't think you would expect any damsge before you get to really low voltages, such as under 1V/cell or even 0V, and obviously the car would shut itself down long before that. The fact that it let you draw that much energy from the heater is proof of that. The safety buffer is that big because it doesn't take that much energy to go from 2.7V to 0V and because, you could run your car to 0% and then leave it parked to self discharge. Pity you didn't run it to the end.
I usually love your videos, but this one might lead to people into thinking, that driving an EV is more complicated, than driving an ICE vehicle. Is it not the beauty of driving an EV, that you actually don‘t have to know what‘s going on under the hood?! I am from a generation where we had to change spark plugs, oil filters and rubbish like that ourselves, where we had oil pressure and oil temperature gages, RPM-Meters and stuff like that on the dashbord. And I am so happy, that with my Tesla, these are things of the past. And frankly, I don‘t even want to know all these readings. I trust, that the Tesla engineers keep them from our eyes for a good reason.
"I don't even want to know "... Good news : you don't have to ! But personally I'm glad to know that this "geek stuff" is available. And this video makes Tesla more attractive ! I hate when a constructor assumes that ALL their users are idiots (even if most are). I even wish my electric bicycle (BOSCH, if you read this) had a "Geek Tab" displaying the Watts, the Volts, the torque provided by the motor, the torque provided by my legs, peak and average power, etc ... It doesn't make cycling "more complicated", it makes it more satisfying for smart people ! :-)
Melmacian Dissenter I don‘t know how it is on Melmac, but on earth we don‘t call people with a different opinion than ours idiots! We respect people with different opinions.
Do you have any Tesla's technical training? Maybe this is not a recommended task for your expensive Li-ion batteries if you don't do it in the right way.
The less I know all these informations, the better I feel.... Why making you so nervous or scared by having these information? I consider I really don't care those when I drive. We can have a bad understanding of the data if don't have the right knowledge. Of course, this is only my humble opinion. Except you are really curious or fond of technical stuffs, I can understand.
@@bjornnyland Agree. Don't worry Bjorn, I never miss any video from you! You are a "golden mine" of true data's far away from car maker adverts...Great for us before making the decision of our coming EV car. My choice: Tesla Model 3 Performance, white.... Soon equipped with 4 winter Michelin Alpin PA4 tires, I keep 20". Hope this is the good decision knowing I seldom drive on snow.
Wow, discharging lithium based batteries under 2.9V sounds pretty scary. Voltages under 3 volts are very damaging to those batteries (even when you are doing it only once per year). I never discharge my batteries below 3,2V, just to be safe. I believe bms calibration is just a myth.
At 0% SoC the expected remaining was 3.x kW - that's clearly the energy buffer shown in the list of values. So that's your emergency reserve most likely ;) should be good for roughly 20km, right. Wanna try ;)
Tesla should implement a "Info for nerds" option where some of this info could be visable for the driver. Keep up the good work Bjørn.
If you have service mode active you have many info like this th-cam.com/video/9nFCDx_UxWY/w-d-xo.html
Model 3 has 96 cells in series. 403V when fully charged and 278V when discharged. So Tesla allows the cells to operate from 2,9V to 4,2V. That's a good decision from them. The cells are (in regular daily use) never really discharged below 3V even though it would be fine to discharge them to 2,5V but there is not a lot of energy left in them between 3V and 2,5V anyway so it is not worth it. And Tesla does not recommend to charge the car to 100% all the time and that makes a lot of sense because if you only charge the cells to 4,1V instead of 4,2V you are already doubling the max expected lifetime of the battery. That really shows the excellent battery management that all Teslas have.
0:40 Tip to developers of that app: calculate a moving average of the battery power. Pretty ugly and unusable when it's bouncing around like that!
Agreed.
@Amund7 please add this feature.
The app scales its min max from what it has seen since launch. If Bjorn floored it then you wouldn’t see things bouncing around any more :)
Yes or any kind of dampening, smoothing. Maybe output the info not every 0.1 seconds but only every 0.5
Yes, they should lower the polling rate.
it is good to know the voltage level and temperature, these two variables are important for cell life longevity. Look forward to the HowTo vid
bjorn, your the best in deph tester i know, peoplo should watch this to understand how a ev real world works. keep going )))
Thank you for doing this and putting your own car on the line. I'm really looking forward to the "setup" video too, I'm tempted to get this OBD link as I really like this type of numbers :)
You are one of the realist guy's in the EV world !
Sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet. I would be scared to do that to my Model 3. Thank you for the video, it is great.
Nice to see the variables of Tesla Model 3. Great...
Thanks for the video
eDrive waiting for your video to this with your Zoe. I’m interested if the SOH will increase - you’re also interested. I know it! :D
Thanar - You asked about setting up a server - You can do that with "Teslamate" I think it's great I love it. You set up your own self hosted data logger for Tesla which logs additional information about your trips including temperatures, elevation changes during trips etc as well as the internals of the car. A mate of mine helped me set it up and he said he sent an email to Björn last week about it with links etc, but never got a reply from him
The Nominal Full Pack is what I was referring to being able to read out in my comment in your earlier video. I recommend using minimum cell temp as that is the value the BMS uses to dictate charging/regen limits. We of course have voltage and current of both the 12v battery as well as the DC DC converter, and hundreds of other items. Only a few things are in the app, but you can log and decode everything later for more sleuthing
Just use a battery voltage meter inside the cigarette socket.
When its charging 14,5V and stops you will see it drop to 12V.
Simple but effective, I would have suggested a voltmeter hanging out of the place the battery is, your idea is much more practical.
An AGM goes form SOC 0% 11.8 V to 100% SOC 12.8 V.
@@Firecul Also, AGMs should only be discharged to 50% SOC for best cycle life. I think that the program lets it discharge to less than that so they only last 2 years or so. Marine batteries usually last 4 or 5 years when 50% rule is followed.
Cells voltage spread at a low SoC, is also a meaningful measure of overall pack health (if it started well balanced)
fun fact:
a german tesla driver (also youtuber) drove his brand new model 3 into shutdown .. he had to drive 26km below 0 to reach shutdown
Horst Lüning: watch?v=nhGwWrO8T5I&t=
@@kasmopaya2676 thanks .. thats exactly the vid i mentioned ^^
tho i think he did a minor error at the end when calculating the kWh he got from the pack .. he used the full 499km from the display and multiplied it by 152 Wh/km .. so his estimation is likely to high .. but the rest of the video is really good
This cable might not work for cars made before Late 2018 some might had them earlier than 2019. Tesla changed the plug. Mine was built in Aug 2018, it has a white plug in the back of the console, not the new (I think blue) one with new 26 pin out. Though they may went back to white connectors for 2019s.
Thanks for the info :)
Panasonic cells can go down to 2.5 volts according to specs. I discharged (accidentally) a couple of cells to 0.0 volts, and they came to life and are still in use without any measurable loss in capacity.
as far as I know you have not to interrupt charging when calibrating the battery (you thought about switching to an outside charger)
These details are the dream of every nerd or electrician. Why doesn't Tesla themself sell it?
@@teslakiller6959 More likes 325 miles instead of 310 in that case 😉
@@marcusbiller867 Then how does Bjorn drive 550 km with it?
@@teslakiller6959So this is a fake vid: m.th-cam.com/video/KJpz5imqW5U/w-d-xo.html ? Oke
@@teslakiller6959 ScanMyTesla is WRONGLY displaying "SOC" and "SOC UI". The app obviously has those 2 inverted.
And if it was true the car can go below 0% of charge, then logic says there is MORE energy than stated by Tesla, not less.
At battery 278 V = cell 2.90 V car claims 57 kW max power. 57 kW is >0.7 C, if you pull anywhere near that that kind of power at so low voltage the cell voltage would drop well below minimum voltage and will cause cell degradation.
IMHO no, thats why there is power limit so BMS can distinguish between real low voltage or just sag due current
"it's Saturday afternoon, it's still kind of busy. IKEA's still open." - The most Scandinavian thing I have ever heard XD
Awww i hoped you would go down to 2.8 cell voltage. I suspect the car decides when to shut down by the lowest cell voltage to prevent damage, and that the state of charge is just there for the range estimation and the % display.
It not going to shutdown. It will no drive and turn off HVAC. Onboard computers running from 12v battery and it was not depleted yet.
dont forget to release bonnet (hood) catch and power socket flap 1st if running totally flat...I seem to remember the recovery guy last time couldnt open the hood if the 12v batt was totally flat :)
Looking forward to the 2nd Part.
Very useful Video.
Thanks!
Nice Bjørn, I also did a lot of datalogging with ScanMyTesla on my Model 3. For example, interesting to see the difference between "Charge total" and "Drive total".... See a disclaimer on the site or developer.
I can't seem to find the previous video for the OBD reader.
Nominal cell Voltage is 3,7 V usually for NMC battery cells. I don't know what type of precise chemistries cells and architecture Tesla using in M 3 but below 3 V is very dangerous.
I'd have been curious to see what would have happened if you had turned off the heater when it was low, before charging, and to see if the battery voltage recovered after a few minutes. Then maybe repeat that a few times if there was a recovery?
I'm also surprised the heating power level stayed almost constant.
I think it did do something, when the soc got to zero for a while it was going to minus something then resetting itself back to zero although the absolute soc was still dropping. I guess it was finding it’s new zero.
Great video, thank you. Where is the OBD port located? Did you cover it in a different video?
Great OBD app. When it woud support troubleshooting, this wouls be awesome.
Please show us how to connect and what is the easiest way for an iPhone fan to get a simple android phone to use please
Pretty cool. It won't damage your battery if you will charge it again immediately.
You’re leaving me hanging!!! 😲
Well, looking at the current time, the car is still charging.
Bjørn could have livestreamed the charging process though for the hardcore followers... 😂
yes pls make a video about what to install and all that stuff .. and the rough cost .. i am playing with the thought of getting one myself and permanently monitor all the things
ohh and very important question .. does this app support horizontal mode .. since i would mount it horizontally where the normal spedometer would be ^^
Yes, it does support horizontal mode
McGammer is a fun name. You should consider M3Hammer
where can we find this application in IOS ?? i want it !!
Cant wait for the follow up 👍
Can you make a video showing the installation of your OBD2 port? also, can you please comment on why the port that is for sale on the website seems to only be for model 3 is produced in 2019+ ?
Wait until you start seeing the stator temps during “preconditioning for Supercharging” when navigating to a Tesla Supercharger...and how hot it will actually heat up the batteries before arriving at a supercharger. Spoiler, 45°C!
Scan My Tesla looks awesome -- doesn't seem like there's an iOS version. There are impassioned arguments and rationales on /s/teslamotors claiming that calibrating the battery is a myth and has no impact on reported range. So part 2 of video (along with the app) can help us get to the truth.
There is an iOS version of the app. Not distributed on the appstore for the moment but available via the TestFlight Beta program if you purchase the cable. That’s what I did.
Just get a cheap ass Android tablet for it.
Not sure why you are worried so much about the low SoC. The completely discharged State is bad for the battery but being fully charged is much worse according to the CEO of E3DC.
@Bjørn Nyland did you charge the battery to 100% prior to this test and not recharge it again prior to this test?
Can you show how did you plug device and connect to your phone?
Thanks Bjørn - looking forward to the result. This is the correct procedure - yes it is slow (11 kW charging should also be OK). Depending on the Tesla algorithm it might need to be repeated.
I need to get this SW and start looking for the OBD port.
Bjørn, why do you recommend a separate Bluetooth dongle in the description, as one seem to be already included with the adapter bundle?
Yeah I wondered this.
You need a separate Bluetooth dongle. The cable is just an adapter from the non-standard Tesla connector to the standard OBDII.
Yes, get that green dongle. elm327 will not work due to the amount of data sent over can bus.
Bjørn Nyland They seems to sell a bluetooth adapter at this point. Ordered the whole pack (Cable and ODBII adapter). Thank you for discovering Scan my Tesla.
Allan Leedy Nope, iOS App is in the TestFlight Beta program not in AppStore at the moment but available.
Your canbus data from scanmytesla did show a 3.3 KWH "Energy Buffer". If you run all the way to zero, does the energy buffer start decreasing below zero?
Hey Björn, is travelling in Norway easily possible for regular EU citizens? What about the cost of charging or toll roads and bridges? I'm thinking about making a rod trip when I get my new i3.
Hi Bjorn
I live at UK and thinking of getting a Model 3 as my first electric car. What are your thoughts of Model 3 at the end of 2019 and beginning of 2020 with loads of EV coming around? Is it sensible to get the model 3 now? Please advice.
You should be displaying minimum cell voltage if you go this low. Logically, that would determine the point when the contactor would open for safety. I don't think you would expect any damsge before you get to really low voltages, such as under 1V/cell or even 0V, and obviously the car would shut itself down long before that. The fact that it let you draw that much energy from the heater is proof of that. The safety buffer is that big because it doesn't take that much energy to go from 2.7V to 0V and because, you could run your car to 0% and then leave it parked to self discharge. Pity you didn't run it to the end.
What phone mount are you using?
Hey Bjorn, which car do you prefer? Tesla Model S or Model 3? Best wishes from Germany.
I usually love your videos, but this one might lead to people into thinking, that driving an EV is more complicated, than driving an ICE vehicle. Is it not the beauty of driving an EV, that you actually don‘t have to know what‘s going on under the hood?! I am from a generation where we had to change spark plugs, oil filters and rubbish like that ourselves, where we had oil pressure and oil temperature gages, RPM-Meters and stuff like that on the dashbord. And I am so happy, that with my Tesla, these are things of the past. And frankly, I don‘t even want to know all these readings. I trust, that the Tesla engineers keep them from our eyes for a good reason.
Watch part 2 coming out later.
"I don't even want to know "... Good news : you don't have to !
But personally I'm glad to know that this "geek stuff" is available. And this video makes Tesla more attractive !
I hate when a constructor assumes that ALL their users are idiots (even if most are).
I even wish my electric bicycle (BOSCH, if you read this) had a "Geek Tab" displaying the Watts, the Volts, the torque provided by the motor, the torque provided by my legs, peak and average power, etc ...
It doesn't make cycling "more complicated", it makes it more satisfying for smart people ! :-)
Melmacian Dissenter I don‘t know how it is on Melmac, but on earth we don‘t call people with a different opinion than ours idiots! We respect people with different opinions.
What If you had no choice but to fast charge?
Do you have any Tesla's technical training?
Maybe this is not a recommended task for your expensive Li-ion batteries if you don't do it in the right way.
Already explained in the video.
"no views" man im early
Really interesting! God shiiit🤣
The less I know all these informations, the better I feel.... Why making you so nervous or scared by having these information? I consider I really don't care those when I drive. We can have a bad understanding of the data if don't have the right knowledge. Of course, this is only my humble opinion.
Except you are really curious or fond of technical stuffs, I can understand.
This app is clearly not for you then.
@@bjornnyland Agree. Don't worry Bjorn, I never miss any video from you! You are a "golden mine" of true data's far away from car maker adverts...Great for us before making the decision of our coming EV car.
My choice: Tesla Model 3 Performance, white.... Soon equipped with 4 winter Michelin Alpin PA4 tires, I keep 20". Hope this is the good decision knowing I seldom drive on snow.
Wow, discharging lithium based batteries under 2.9V sounds pretty scary.
Voltages under 3 volts are very damaging to those batteries (even when you are doing it only once per year).
I never discharge my batteries below 3,2V, just to be safe. I believe bms calibration is just a myth.
Different chemistry, different voltage.
Some chemistries are 3v bottom and some are 2.8. I think Tesla’s is 2.8-4.2. It’s perfectly fine as long as it doesn’t stay there for long.
love dat sheeit
At 0% SoC the expected remaining was 3.x kW - that's clearly the energy buffer shown in the list of values. So that's your emergency reserve most likely ;) should be good for roughly 20km, right. Wanna try ;)
*kWh
This app needs slower refresh frequency. Like one refresh per second
Why are you scared to empty the battery? It shouldn’t be a problem while you are close to a charger?
Scared to damage the battery, they don’t really like it ☺️
@@scratch009 But wouldn't you think they thought of that at Tesla? I even beleive thy have some juice left to drive a liitle bit further below 0%...