I was told by a Tesla mobile ranger that Tesla in a recent software update had reduced the FSOC levels to protect battery longevity, had you heard this? My current FSOC on my M3 DM LR is 295 miles down from 310. Your thoughts?
@@jimhammond4963 I don't think so. Tesla can't sell us a car with 310 miles and then release an update to take range away. There was some controversy of this happening with older Model S cars, so I think the tech confused it for that.
Enough with the recalibrating! Lol The Tesla battery manufacturing process or any manufacturing processes will result in fluctuations in total battery energy volume. You’ll never have 2 batteries that are exactly the same. I at least appreciate the honesty in the software telling me I’m maxed out at 302 miles and not a fake software showing me 310 cause I paid for 310. Just my $.02
Recalibrating the battery absolutely worked for me on multiple occasions. I did it at home each time, never a super charger. My range estimate was severely messed up and it took several cycles of running down to ~5% and then charging to 100% to get back to “normal” range. This method was originally suggested to me by my local Tesla service center. I did it up to 3 times in a row before taking a break from it for about a month. It took 5 or 6 total cycles to get back to 310+ from 280-285. What originally messed it up was charging to 70% daily. Now I charge to 90% and it has remained consistent. That’s my personal experience, YMMV.
@@ChiefLunar 3 years ago I swapped my Model 3 for a Model Y. I have stopped caring as much about this as I did when I posted this comment 4 years ago, but my Y has never had anything close to the "normal" range estimate. I don't mean actual range, I mean displayed rated range. My current 100% estimate is 285-290, which is about what it has been from the start. I have not tried to re-calibrate in a very long time. Maybe I will just for the helluvit.
@dbabrams What was your calibration procedure? sub 10% or lower and then 100%. some recomand staying 1h at sub 10% and again 1h after charged to 100%. Did you do that?
In order to make the calibration work you need to stow your lucky rabbits foot in the glovebox while charging, but not while discharging. The car has to be pointed towards Freemont while charging at home.
Jim Adams this is a great idea. I will try it now. Charging it to percentage. Just as long as the model 3 battery doesn’t behave like my iPhone battery. That shit stresses me out. Thanks.
Oh thank fuck, no music, no clickbait thumbnails and titles, no minutes long intros, and the answer is already in the title. The fact there are still channels like this makes my day a little brighter.
I heard from a Tesla tech that you need to discharge battery below 10 percent and then charge to 100 straight through... at about the 4 minute mark you stated you charged it to 90... then let it sit to 90 and then before you leave you go to 100.... what happens is as the battery starts to get full, the BMS is monitoring the voltage of the separate modules. If you charge to 90 and then let it sit... then the BMS will use the time that it is getting no juice to balance out the modules, so when you restart charging later in the morning the BMS cant accurately measure levels of modules because you have given it time to auto correct. Also, in order to properly calibrate you need to always charge the battery with the home charger (level 2) if you use the supercharger to charge to full the battery is getting so much juice so fast that the BMS will not actually re calibrate anything because its getting charged too fast for it to accurately measure voltage of modules. The only way to calibrate is to do it at home with a level 2 charger, and you also need to do it about 2-3 times... so you would charge to 100 (as soon as you hit "charging complete" you need to drive the car some so that you don't damage the pack, maybe just drive it down to 90 percent if you are not driving long distance) and then just do not charge the battery until you get down to below 10 percent again, for me that would probably mean not charging my battery for about 3 days when I take into account my daily commute. You then need to repeat this about 3 times in order for your car to relearn what true 100% is. My response to those that state that what the 100% range is doesn't matter, its really the 10%... I would say that if you have an accurate 100%, then you will also have an accurate 10 percent... and what the real 10% is could be the difference between one more supercharger stop, or your ability to make it home with 3% charge... for those that do road trips often and have gotten over range anxiety I think you will agree that if you can make it home with 3%, that is more than plenty as you can plug in your car as soon as you get home. if I have an accurate 10% and the car knows that I can make it to my house even with 3%, then I can make that drive, but if the car does not know my true 10% it could send me to one more supercharger stop because it thinks I will not make it. recalibrating will not undo battery degradation, but it could help to squeeze as much out of your battery. Sorry for long comment!
I think its not accurate at the top end, simply because at 0% its not actually 0% .. just like a gas car, when you reach "empty" you still have about 20-30 (depends on the car) miles left. I found out the tough way, that when my tesla reached 0% , I still safely made it home which was about 11 miles away from the point of reaching 0%
From ~25k to ~35k miles my battery with stuck on full charge of about 289 miles full charge. It didn't budge at all, i figured it was degradation. I typically charge to 80% during the warm months and 90% during the winter months. Well over the last 1k miles I have been charging my car to 100% when I plan on going 180+ miles. After about 3 full charge charges I am now at 297 miles full charge. (Dual Motor with aero)
Battery re-calibration rumors have been alive since 2010 when the LEAF first came out. It never ceased to amaze me that folks thought they could positively influence the behavior of a fully automated BMS.
There is some merit to it, though. When people charge to about 70/80% daily at some point the battery will "unlearn" the total capacity and report less mileage (less kWh). Charging to 100% is then recommended and will&could help. This is even in the book and has been explained on a few occasions. Tesla could also reset the BMS manually.
@@1kruxi With the LEAF the premise that balancing only occurs at 100% was defeated when LEAFSpy Pro came out. It became clear the BMS was shunting voltages between cell pairs while the car was being driven and/or charged. This continual balancing never stops while the LEAF is driven or charged. How does Tesla balance? No idea. There is a version for LEAFSpy available I believe for S/X cars. If anyone has data from that pls share.
@@marcusbiller867 Charge limit is part of the equation. Also to be considered is that depth of discharge helps the BMS keep itself calibrated. If one only does short journeys and keeps the charge limit to 70% the BMS can get very confused. This happened to Kim of LikeTesla. I too charged to 70% but never saw the huge discrepancies that Kim did. The difference is the fact I drive anywhere between 80 and 120 miles each workday.
@@DirtyTesla just a modest SR+ and took advantage of the free upgrades so got the red with 19 inch rims (not sure if the range loss is worth it, but frees free!)
Dude. I love your videos. Just got my Model Y a few weeks ago and have been going down the rabbit hole of Tesla videos on TH-cam for almost 2 months first getting for my purchase and now that I’ve gotten it. I find your videos funny, informative, well presented and just geeky enough. Keep up the good work.
@@DirtyTesla it is amazing. I love it. I know I’m probably worrying prematurely but I moved my wifi mesh module closer to the garage which increased my wifi signal in the MY to see if that was holding up the software. Now I have a full strength signal. So far it still hasn’t shown up but I noticed when I get in the car it takes a few seconds while the car wakes up before it connects to the wifi. I assume that’s normal and not anything inhibiting me from the software upgrade. I have my setting in the car on “advanced”.
Great video. Thank you. Those who comment and say not to worry or it is just an algorithm problem or, worse yet, just look at percentage and don't stress , are missing the point completely. Someone like myself who has a LR AWD DM model 3 and who has obeyed all the best charging practices, should be able to physically drive over 300 miles IF you drive at 242 Wh/mile. Period. It is what you paid for. I have also tried "recallibrating" and in fact today at 10,000 plus miles can now only get 284 miles at 100 percent charge. Not just on the screen but in real life. For those who deny this or are critical of those who are increasingly bringing this up, you are simply not correct. End of story. I am hopeful that there is a software fix but as of now I have lost almost 10 percent of range in my first 9 months of ownership. This is not acceptable.
It is software. The 284 is just a guess. I have 35k miles on mine. It has shown full charge estimate as low at 280 miles. I hopped in my car and drove from Park City Utah to Elko Nevada with an average speed of 78mph (cruise control 88 on 80) and made it no problem. Just use your nav to get to the next charger and don't worry about it. You did not lose that range, it just looks like you did. After a couple weeks of topping off in the am to 100% when going on a longer drive, my rated range is now 297 miles. Showing 284 miles or 297 miles doesn't change my ability to get to the next supercharger at all...
You will degrade ~5% the first year and then slower after that but continual degradation. It is chemistry. You didn't pay for a magic never degrading battery.
Scott Fauque So does the loss of nearly 10 percent of rated range and even more of actual range in 8 months somehow "magically" negate my argument or comment? So at what point can I comment and have you at least acquiesce that there might be a legitimate problem? Is 15 percent of loss in 8 months acceptable ?
Mr Toad's Wild Ride yes, because it is phantom range loss. If your battery is actually bad, Tesla will fix it. My car say at a lower “estimated full charge” for well over 10,000 miles before it went back up. Slide your soc barb a little to the right if you need to. But seriously just drive your car.
By chance, today I had mobile service out to install homelink. He had to disconnect the 12V battery a few times. Before service I was at 79%, after it was 80% (and I was unplugged). Now my M3 shows no degradation after 1800 miles. Maybe 12V battery has something to do with an actually re calibration.
Thanks for dispelling the rumor about calibration. The rumor may have started from electric model RC hobby batteries. When I was a remote control pilot the batteries would balance the cell and go very slowly in the last part of the charging cycle. And you could see that it was balancing each of the cells on the charger. TESLA doesn’t give you the option obviously with 3000 cells it would be hard to do. Another thing to keep in mind is that when I charge in hot environments I have seen my car add between three and 5% in the first five minutes after charging and a supercharger station. I believe this is due to the battery cooling because I can hear the cooling fan running vigorously for several minutes after I leave when it’s hot. As the battery cools the indicator has added as much is 5% on one of my cross country trips. And you’re correct the healthiest thing to do to your battery would always be to run it between 60% SOC and 40% SOC. We would get as much is three times the 1300 0 to 100% SOC the Tesla rates the battery pack for. But since that’s not practical 30-70 SOC or 20-80 SOC are the next best things.
BMS calibrating can take as many as 5 efforts. Also charging on 110v seems to be very effective for this too. It’s worked for many of us In the community, beginning with my 2013 Model S, and my Model 3.
I should add, after your first 100% charge, you’ll never get that level of range again. But these steps will give you noticeable improvement in range, as your battery ages. Do another run down to 15% or 20% or so, then (if you can), let the car charge off 110v to 100%. I’ll bet you get 5 or more miles back.
Miles of range is like mpg in a car. Just because the "tank" holds 310 miles of fuel based on the EPA estimated mpg doesn't mean you're going to get 310 miles out of the "tank" of fuel. And to be honest I don't care if my Tesla is 100% accurate on rate at 100% charge. I care a lot more if it's accurate at 10% charged.
Actually what is the meaning of this here in germany It's not for gaining miles its for the BMS so that it knows what is the lowest and what is the highest voltage for each battery. For this you need to drive right before the car would stop you, so a few miles below 0 %. And then charge up to 100, doesnt matter if SC or @ Home
Your observations of "less than full" (300 miles) on the screen when you expected 310, is probably the result of small inaccuracy of the algorithm used to show this number. Tesla engineers are probably not too concerned about this since the error appears to be on the low side of mileage available. Therefore you are not likely to "run out of battery" before coming to your destination. As you observed, the mileage estimates at the low end of the battery charge appear to be spot-on. Since a driver would be most concerned about making it to his/her destination before the battery runs "dry" therefore the algorithm provides quite accurate mileage estimates of the battery condition at the low end of the battery charge.
BTW, the truck and bikes @5:35. While, maybe, the truck could have changed lane, although did not have to, You are merging and you MUST do it in a way that does not disturb the traffic. You cannot expect all drivers to slow down to let you in. So the bikes should have done it slightly better way. Besides, the bikers waited till the very last moment to suddenly appear in the front of the truck with a trailer making the driver slow down. On the top of that - there were cars on other lanes not allowing him to change the lane.
Is is not changing your range because it just adapt to your way to drive making the average of all you last session? Or making the average regarding the consommation of your usual driving session? So if I'm right, it could go down or up between the max and the lower numbers of consummation depending of your way to drive and maybe area or temperature.
BMS balance at a very slow rate on most batteries requiring to be left on charger at 100% to balance cells. It works this way on ebike batteries but maybe Tesla BMS can balance much faster. 20Ah ebike battery charges at 5,000 mah (5 amps per hour) but the BMS balances at 30 mah. Range is down to your driving style
Hello! I know this is an older video, but I’ve talked to Tesla yesterday, cause my TM3 LR AWD only shows 462 km instead of 560 km I was concerned, but told the calibration would work, also the colder weather could take some km. The guy at Tesla told me to wait after I came home to charge, cause the BMS needs to find the lower numbers before charging (only because you’ve charged right away at the supercharger). I don’t know yet if it will work but I hope, since a loss of 80 km is to much for a 1.5 year old car with 25000 km on the odometer
Per Tesla battery tech you have to wait at least couple of hours at low stage (5-10%) before charging to 90% then wait again before using your car. After doing this couple of times bms will reset itself.
One big unknown is the W/mi of the odometer. I suspect this is a key metric in the "guess o' meter" and possibly the W/mi of the most recent charge. A more accurate reading would be to use a low to full charge with a recording L2 charger (or Killawatt device.) New, we saw about 55kWh to fully charge the car.
Simply divide rated miles remaining by charge % to get the effective full-charge miles. No need to estimate by saying “oh well 13% of 310 is 40 so 39 is close...” and so on. Most of the examples you mentioned resulted in a full charge of of 300 miles (e.g 39/13% and 21/7%). It’s just easier math.
I think the range slowly adjust to your habits. If your driving below the rates limit then the range increased. I have the LR RWD and in winter 80% was showing around 250. Then after summer got here and it wasn’t as cold that same 80% now shows 265 to 268.
Both of our 3s are showing 274-276 at 90% charged, down from the normal 279-280. My Performance uses at least 20% more energy than our LR3D at the same speed. I can only manage at most 250 miles on a full charge in the P while the LR3D will hit close to 290.
Dirty Tesla yeah I’m not that worried about it. I just don’t want my 1-month old car to start dropping 3-5 miles a month. If it continues I’ll have to get it looked at. I’ve only got about 4700 miles on the car and it was purchased with 3 miles on it August 9th.
I'm here because my Model 3 battery range recently went from 355 to 345. I saw somewhere else that once the battery is below 10% you should let it sleep for at least a couple hours to let it balance. But who knows if that works either. It takes me over a week to get my battery below 10%, so I haven't been able to do all the tests I've wanted.
With my Model 3 long range AWD, the range dropped 5 miles around July 4th, 2019. My range dropped another 5 miles around Sept 14, 2019. Pretty identical to you, which makes me think that it is due to software updates. Maybe Tesla is making secret software updates?
2017 MX 100D. I’m not seeing charge to 100% (96% initially) plus apparent range loss from 294 new to about 265 now. I’ve tried the BMS recalibration process of letting charge go down to about 10%, sit for 2 hrs, charge to “100%” at home or until the charging process stops, let the vehicle sit for 1-2 hrs, then drive to reduce charge to 90%. I’ve done 2 cycles with a week+ in between, and the max charge is 97% now. I’ll keep trying this process for a few more times, but the fact that the battery/BMS won’t charge to 100% is bothering me. What about the BMS reset feature in the Service mode menu? Completely undocumented AFAIK. Anyone have experience with this or knowledge about this? Could it be a shortcut to regaining range & full charge level?
Reason why you're not getting the 310 mi range after 100% charge is because the algorithms looks at car's historic consumption to predict the range. If you drive very light footed and very efficiently (35-45 mph) thru several charges, that total will go up.
A factor to see good range after charging is the way you drive. If you drive real fast just before you start charging that is going to influence negatively the miles range.
@@DirtyTesla Ok. I don't have any experience with Tesla. My experience is with BMW C-Evo LR. When I drive fast the last miles before charging it affects the range reading.
Dirty Tesla I ordered the standard range, white, aero wheels, with fsd. After much debate we decided we didn’t need to spend the extra $ for the long range.
So the "extreme" calibration has been a thing for years with MS batteries, but we know that MS and M3 have different batteries and battery management systems. I have not heard anybody mention that you can actually calibrate the new models M3 or MS raven. Also as others have mentioned, the software might actually take care of it now or Tesla just balances better as we charge now. In any case, the argument was if you only charge 20% to 80% for years and 50k miles, then you would need to let the the batteries max capacity re-balance, to show a more correct range. Also supercharging is told to destroy (wear down faster) the batteries, does it actually do that?
It's a general rule charging is always worse for batteries. But there's plenty of evidence of people supercharging regularly with no more degradation than anyone else.
Mine 2019 LR AWD with boost says 277 mi.at 100% with only 22.000 mi driven. 95% of time charging with AC 3,6 kw at home to max. 90%. Should i give this calibration a try?
I have 2019 3P Says 278 at 100% and 22,000 miles also. About 7% loss. Last year at 13,000 it was about 2.5% loss. I had Summon stand by on for long time without realising and it showed 10% loss. Turning that off returned about 3%.
My understanding is that the mileage you see is based on calculations using your driving habits over some amount of miles, not a strict 100% to 310 miles. Example: You won’t get 310 miles of range if you are on a racetrack doing 140mph and a lot of stopping then slamming the pedal to the medal. It’s better to do proper charging and calm driving to get full mileage. Also battery degradation will most likely show up as the battery not getting back to 100%. Then is when you will know for sure. The one that should know is the Model S owner that has 300,000 miles.
My P85 had 15 miles range removed by Tesla without any warning which is a bummer. sC said it would be to protect battery long term which I guess is good but still wish I’d had a message on software update page. 5 miles came back after next update.
Chris - your car had lost < 10 miles of range, so I’m not surprised this didn’t do much. My M3P from Sept 2018 has lost about 12% according to TeslaFi (looks like that is what you use?) - down to 272 miles for expected 100% range. Doing a 3% to 100% recalibration now (at home). Per others, I’m letting it sit for 2 hours at both ends of the charge cycle to allow the BMS to “rebalance” (if there is anything to this). FYI - my car is spending months at 80% or 85% charge at home with just every few days using 10-20% of the battery. Also, did you check the Energy graph? The battery % on the main display is not based on any of your driving habits; it is just EPA range max * estimated battery level.
I’m looking at 204 miles at 90 percent when it should be 216 Car is 2 months old 6500 miles I called TESLA and they said that it’s a good time to bring it in because it’s out of parameter.
Dirty Tesla I just have an appointment in Orlando. They let me record last time while picking up the car so I’ll try again and document what they say. 25th is appointment.
@@MarkDickinson an update would be really informative .. and I hope everything is ok with your car (maybe they only need to adjust something .. or exchange a single cell .. some cells discharge super quick and then whole bricks of batteries get "shut down" to not damage cells that discharge faster than others)
Non-Tesla EV owner here... Based on my experience with battery charging and range is that the anticipated range is strictly related to my driving habits. Or style, I should say. Sure, this is based on 500e, which is nowhere near software wise to Tesla, but still. I can get 100% and see 122 miles expected or I can see as low as 75 miles. It all depends how I was driving for the last (unknown) number of miles, or maybe lat charge. I know the battery may need to be balanced (each cell in the string getting same energy), but the problem is that the weakest link will limit the overall capacity of the string.
@@DirtyTesla Oh, I see. I was not aware of it. Thanks! But still, could the anticipated range be somehow altered by the style and conditions of the drive (despite of what the manufacturer/manual says)? From chemistry side - batteries most of the time prefer slower charging over fast in order to get full capacity (hence the trickle charge in the end). Going this route - one could imply doing Level 1 or Level 2 capped at 10 A might restore full capacity. Also, temperature plays big role here. In FIAT I can read voltage of each individual cell. This can tell me how good/bad they are. At least to some extent... Could this be done with Tesla, too? The system is quite simple, on one hand, but on the other, there are so many assumptions and safety features involved that complicates the battery string charging characteristic. What applies to one cylindrical battery, may not really be same here... Yet, in the end I think it is simply algorithm in the software counting charges/discharges cycles and not allowing for more charge to be dumped. Hence less power delivered. And that is what I would actually compare. How much charge was DELIVERED based on % (that is 100 kWh battery - 70% should take 70 kWh, while charging more likely 75-80 kWh due to charging efficiency and lost power in heat and cooling pump).
Amazing how people obsess over the mileage number. To determine charge termination, the charger is measuring the battery pack and is looking for a particular voltage set point, if the pack hits that threshold before you get your magic 310 miles, then it will terminate and you will only see 300 miles or 298 miles, or whatever is on the screen. Not to mention, and I think more people do understand this, that the range is only a calculated number, just like in a gas car.
Wait. Didn’t Tesla release an upgrade a while ago increasing the upper mileage to 325mi? I have a RWD LR and After 1 year, I usually get ~318mi after a full charge.
In short, what is the factual method to recalibrate the BMS? My MYP only charges to 270 miles and it was 306miles. I only drive 25 miles per day but I drive mega fast. I ran down to 13% and then to 100 and only got the 270. Maybe I need to go to 5%?
@@DirtyTesla Interesting, you think it would be effected by temp and display differently. The loss in range must be due to the baby and dog you store in the air intake. lol Btw did you hear amazon ordered 100,000 delivery Van's through Rivian?
Normally to calibrate a battery, it has to be charged all the way and then discharged all the way, straight, without any recharging in the middle ( i.e. regenerative breaking ), so this is only something they can do in the shop.
My _guess_ is the recalibration is about training the computer not just running down the battery and charging back up. You're driving the car aggressively so you're training the computer to estimate a lower range. Plus, are you using AC? What's your kWh/mile? You can plug that number into the equation. I'm curious what the actual range was 100->10%? If you charger to 100 then set your trip computer and see how far you get. Might have to turn off AC, etc and drive reasonable.
I could get 400 miles on a charge if I hyper mile. The only way is to see how many kwh I can squeeze out of the pack, but even that is only so accurate.
@@DirtyTesla Makes sense. I've seen forum posts referencing Tesla Service reps saying otherwise. I understand it's not uncommon for them to be wrong. P.s. Thanks for checking it out. I enjoyed your video.
@@davidroberts3152 Glad you enjoyed! Yes, even the service reps, support, etc will give wrong information. If the battery changed based on driving habits, everyone's estimate would be cut in half in the winter lol
I wish more people understood what you said in the first couple minutes of video. The battery levels are an *estimate*. Even if that estimate is 98/99% correct, that’s still a difference of several miles. ROFL at the motorbike!
I think most battery degradation actually does happen early in the batteries life. And then as the car ages you will see a very very slight increase. this is what happened with news coulomb and his Chevrolet bolt EV. I think he saw nine percent degradation in the first fifty thousand miles.. but he has over a hundred thousand on it now and the degradation has not changed at all since then. He's got some pretty good data as well he's put a hundred thousand miles on that car in 2 years. And is using fast-charging virtually every time, as well as running is battery down to very low percentage is pretty regularly.
My 3 is “brand new” and have maxed out at 302 miles. I now have 5k miles and still only get 302. I’ve run it down to 0% charges to 100%. Daily charging to @80%-85%. Some supercharging. Still only 302 miles. I’m not sure any of this calibrating even works. I’m sure it’s a software thing or the fact that manufacturing will never give you 100% exact figures. Tesla doesn’t use traditional manufacturing processes so the consistency of the battery’s energy volume will fluctuate between cars. I’d still think software would still tell us 310. At least I appreciate Tesla’s honesty showing us true energy numbers and not a fake 310.
I have the same issue. LR AWD 292 max miles. Battery calibration is a waste of time, I have tried it and nothing changes. I don't understand switching to percent, because how do you know is more right than miles. Mine is 16 miles off so if I am in percent it should on charge to 95 percent not 100.
Just keep in mind that just about all the battery degradation/calibration issues are pertaining to the 18650 batteries. You can'r really do a test on your more advanced batteries to dispel issues faced by some customers with 18650 batteries.
So many anecdotes, personal observations, actual tests (by Dirty Tesla for example), suggestions, hypothesis from many Tesla owners about health and degradation of our cars' batteries! And absolute deafening silence from Tesla! Not a word, not a comment, not a directive other than limiting charge to 80/90%, which the vast majority of drivers duly observe in any case, but still can result in considerable range loss in a short period of time. By being totally quiet on the subject it looks as if Tesla know something is wrong but absolutely want to avoid making waves, sticking their head up and being confronted and positively respond to the real fast battery degradation problems, afflicting and reported by many drivers.
I found that 2019.32.1 created a sharp drop in my max range. I see that was the version that you were running when you showed your range graph near the beginning of your video. I went from 503km to 497. It has stayed at 497 ever since. I am confident that Tesla changed the range calculation algorithm in v2019.32.1 as there is no way we all suddenly suffered battery deg at the same time and 'coincidentally' when we installed v2019.32.1 (2018 Model S 100D)
I have no idea what Tesla's algorithm does to estimate range but if I were them I would base it on the driving habits of the owner. If I have a lead foot and drive way over the speed limit I would want that reflected in the estimated range so I have a realistic expectation of how far I can go. The EPA estimate is based on a specific route driven under specific conditions using a specific acceleration/deceleration rate over the route. I would also expect that when the car was new it would base its range estimate on the EPA model and then gradually adjust the range based on learning how the owner actually drives. The idea that all owners no matter their driving style will get the same EPA 310 mile range is not a reasonable expectation.
Is it possible that the expected range is based on driving habits? If you drive it harder to get below 10%, will it assume that you will drive like that for the next few hundred miles?
I'm having similar rage readings on my SR+. I've been told that driving habits also impact the numbers, so "driving fast" to drain the battery might hurt your projected miles. (not sure if it's true, although Have observed some trends that the number is less when I drive more aggressive) You should retest, & drive efficiently and all in one trip. Although, based on my recent data, it won't work either.
Is it possible that the 100%=300 miles is only a prediction that is based on your driving pattern in the past? Meaning, an average driver who drives at normal speed would get 325, and a slow driver would get 335 miles?
I have seen 2 TH-cam videos recently where 2 different guys claimed they had zero range loss after about a year and a half. The only thing I could see that they did differently from me is that they always plugged the car in, even when it is NOT charging. I'm not sure why that would be beneficial. Maybe it's trickle charging? Or the BMS has a stable reference for determining actual battery capacity? Not sure.
Could it be that it is tempering that limit based on how you drive (or have driven over the last 1000 miles)? I know my ICE cars report different overall ranges when I fill their tanks based on how I've been driving them.
What about the software change that was to bring the max Model 3 long range battery range up to 325 miles? I might be way behind but did that ever happen or was that a rumor? Thanks!
Surely there is rounding error in there. 50% could be 49.5 or 50.4. That makes the low end of battery charge multiple up the error making range look higher.
Just over 3% degradation (if it is actually reduced battery capacity) in about 20k miles doesn’t seem horrible since degradation happens most quickly at the beginning of the battery’s life and should level off as more cycles are put on it.
When you started it was 6:08 with 55 minutes remaining. When you finally finished it was 7:40. (1:32) lol. It also cost you $15.85 . I rarely charge to 100% only for road trips. I only Super charge up to 80 to 90% when the charge drops to 100 mph I stop and top off at home. I bet it cost you at least a third of your total of the $15.85 in the last 10% of charge.
After 6500 miles, i have the same problem. Lost about 5 to 7 miles at 80%. I don't really charge to 100% that often. I think i only charged to 100% 3 times.
@@DirtyTesla You can't really measure that by years, because you don't know how many miles they are driving, how often they are charging etc. 5% "in the first year" (whatever that means) is a lot, unless you drive 100 000 miles and only Supercharge. I have about 1% or less degradation at around 12,000km and that is "the first half year".
Excellent video! I’m in the middle of doing the exact same tests. Like you, it took me three days to go from 100% down to under 10% charge for the first cycle. My estimated range was only 294 miles for the first charge to 100%, so we’ll see how much I “gain” after my trip to the Supercharger tonight. Bjørn showed something interesting in his video where he was able to drive for miles after doing a cycle like this without the estimated range changing at all. So, that is something I’m going to try. I’m also going to do three full cycles and see if *that* makes any difference. Will be interesting to see.
Yeah, after I started driving at 100% my miles started going down like normal. I'd love to get even closer to 0 but it's so time consuming and bad for the battery... Are you on 2019.32 something as well? I think this software version is just killing the BMS
What is the established criteria for significant degradation that warrants Tesla battery replacement? I see it commonly stated by several Tesla TH-camrs that the batteries are predicated to last 500k miles...
If you have over 30% degradation in 8 years or 120k miles Tesla will replace it. Something like 6 years 100k miles for SR models. Tesla states 300k-500k miles themselves
My battery full charge estimate dropped from 307 to 300 miles right around that same time (17-18k miles). At a little over a year and 35k miles I get a full charge estimate of 297 and it has been trending up. I think the initial 5% battery degradation happens in that first 20k miles.
I attempted to recalibrate but bringing below 5% and straight charge overnight at home to 100%. But that did not help. Other times I keep filling upto 90% daily regardless of how much Or how little I drive. In order for algorithm to recalculate but again no luck. Tesla service center told me because I drive aggressive it is calculated based of 7 to 8 week of driving habit that range. I find that hard to believe Tesla. Honestly I haven’t found the answer. BTW my car also has 300 max range. Tesla told me there is nothing wrong with battery.
Nice video and thanks for doing it. Just wanted to ask the Tesla community if there is any info on whether the speed of charging like the regular 110V or 220 V with NEMA adapter vs Superchanger damage/degrade the battery on the long run? I typically plug in my car at work 5-6 days a week at the regular outlet [5 miles/hr] typically about 60 mile and below 150 mile range remaining in the battery. I just wanted to know if this charging habit is going to mess up the battery vs just charge at home [30 miles/hr]. Any scientific info is appreciated. I searched the manual no info. Thanks again
120v or 240v are still pretty slow compared to a supercharger, and should not do any extra battery damage. Tesla does say not to supercharger constantly, but some people do and have no problems with that. I'm general, fast charging is bad for the battery.
The battery is around 76 kWh. According to the display, you charged around 67 kWh, starting at 27 miles which I estimate to be around 6.5 kWh. So it would appear there’s about a 2.5 kWh loss, which would reflect around 10 miles @ 250 Wh/mile.
It's possible, but I'm still skeptical because of the sudden drop. And 76kwh at 240wh/mile would be 316 miles, so I thought it was 74.5kwh or 75kwh...i know being pedantic, but it would greatly change the percent loss
Dirty Tesla I can’t find the EPA’s Certification Summary Information Report right now, but if I remember correctly it states the actual battery is just over 80 kWh and 76 of that is available to the driver, but it has been awhile since I’ve looked it up.
@@DirtyTesla Degradation naturally occurs as crystals form in and around the SEI layer of the cells. Crystal formation is a "sudden" process so it's possible that perhaps a batch of cells within a module(s) underwent degradation within a short time period, also the BMS monitors the cells and if it detects any issues will turn those cells "off" which could explain your sudden drop.
I Talk To Tesla Rep. Range number depends of your driving ( fast, slow, HVAC. Tires) Tesla OS running algorithm all the time .on my MX range going up and down up to 8 miles both way its always adjusted . Only need to worry about if you Battery doesn't go to 100%
Thanks for the video. Know I know for sure I was wasting my time driving to get my battery below 10% and waiting a long time to get it to 100%. I wasn’t getting g improved results. But thanks for doing this video to prove that BMS recalibration is just a MYTH!!
Actually calibration has nothing to do with depleting the battery, but more with charging in the higher voltage. For example, when the car is charged almost to 100% it will tell you 100 percent, in order to get all battery packs to 4,2v(or whatever tesla set as the highest voltage) leave it pluged in over night and the bms will do its thing. Only works while charging, and only works when 100% charged
Any better after software update?
2019.32.2.2 did not change my extrapolated 100% range yet.
You just need to calibrate
I was told by a Tesla mobile ranger that Tesla in a recent software update had reduced the FSOC levels to protect battery longevity, had you heard this? My current FSOC on my M3 DM LR is 295 miles down from 310. Your thoughts?
@@jimhammond4963 I don't think so. Tesla can't sell us a car with 310 miles and then release an update to take range away.
There was some controversy of this happening with older Model S cars, so I think the tech confused it for that.
Enough with the recalibrating! Lol
The Tesla battery manufacturing process or any manufacturing processes will result in fluctuations in total battery energy volume. You’ll never have 2 batteries that are exactly the same. I at least appreciate the honesty in the software telling me I’m maxed out at 302 miles and not a fake software showing me 310 cause I paid for 310. Just my $.02
Recalibrating the battery absolutely worked for me on multiple occasions. I did it at home each time, never a super charger. My range estimate was severely messed up and it took several cycles of running down to ~5% and then charging to 100% to get back to “normal” range. This method was originally suggested to me by my local Tesla service center. I did it up to 3 times in a row before taking a break from it for about a month. It took 5 or 6 total cycles to get back to 310+ from 280-285. What originally messed it up was charging to 70% daily. Now I charge to 90% and it has remained consistent. That’s my personal experience, YMMV.
Very interesting. Thanks for sharing.
Can confirm, this still works in 2024
@@ChiefLunar 3 years ago I swapped my Model 3 for a Model Y. I have stopped caring as much about this as I did when I posted this comment 4 years ago, but my Y has never had anything close to the "normal" range estimate. I don't mean actual range, I mean displayed rated range. My current 100% estimate is 285-290, which is about what it has been from the start. I have not tried to re-calibrate in a very long time. Maybe I will just for the helluvit.
@dbabrams What was your calibration procedure? sub 10% or lower and then 100%. some recomand staying 1h at sub 10% and again 1h after charged to 100%. Did you do that?
@@cristi_ei I may have tried that once but I can't be sure. It was a long time ago.
In order to make the calibration work you need to stow your lucky rabbits foot in the glovebox while charging, but not while discharging. The car has to be pointed towards Freemont while charging at home.
Don't forget to step out of the car with you right foot first.
@@andrecarvalho9637 Dang. I just knew I was forgetting something important.
@@andrecarvalho9637 which one is the RIGHT foot then?
I leave my gauge in percentage mode and treat it like a gas gauge. Much less stressful.
Same here, feels a bit more like charging my phone that way
Jim Adams this is a great idea. I will try it now. Charging it to percentage. Just as long as the model 3 battery doesn’t behave like my iPhone battery. That shit stresses me out. Thanks.
Unfortunately the next super charger isn't 30% away it's 100 miles. It's unfortunate to lose any of the max range, especially on a long road trip.
I find percent way more stressful! I like seeing that I have a 100 miles left. I do not like seeing my battery at 30 some percent.
Yep. Same. Feels more natural too, like a cell phone
"Who else is wasting hundreds of miles for you?"
Bjørn has entered the chat.
😂 I literally thought that after I said it
Oh thank fuck, no music, no clickbait thumbnails and titles, no minutes long intros, and the answer is already in the title. The fact there are still channels like this makes my day a little brighter.
But I don't get millions of views maybe I need to go to the dark side
I heard from a Tesla tech that you need to discharge battery below 10 percent and then charge to 100 straight through... at about the 4 minute mark you stated you charged it to 90... then let it sit to 90 and then before you leave you go to 100.... what happens is as the battery starts to get full, the BMS is monitoring the voltage of the separate modules. If you charge to 90 and then let it sit... then the BMS will use the time that it is getting no juice to balance out the modules, so when you restart charging later in the morning the BMS cant accurately measure levels of modules because you have given it time to auto correct. Also, in order to properly calibrate you need to always charge the battery with the home charger (level 2) if you use the supercharger to charge to full the battery is getting so much juice so fast that the BMS will not actually re calibrate anything because its getting charged too fast for it to accurately measure voltage of modules. The only way to calibrate is to do it at home with a level 2 charger, and you also need to do it about 2-3 times... so you would charge to 100 (as soon as you hit "charging complete" you need to drive the car some so that you don't damage the pack, maybe just drive it down to 90 percent if you are not driving long distance) and then just do not charge the battery until you get down to below 10 percent again, for me that would probably mean not charging my battery for about 3 days when I take into account my daily commute. You then need to repeat this about 3 times in order for your car to relearn what true 100% is.
My response to those that state that what the 100% range is doesn't matter, its really the 10%... I would say that if you have an accurate 100%, then you will also have an accurate 10 percent... and what the real 10% is could be the difference between one more supercharger stop, or your ability to make it home with 3% charge... for those that do road trips often and have gotten over range anxiety I think you will agree that if you can make it home with 3%, that is more than plenty as you can plug in your car as soon as you get home. if I have an accurate 10% and the car knows that I can make it to my house even with 3%, then I can make that drive, but if the car does not know my true 10% it could send me to one more supercharger stop because it thinks I will not make it. recalibrating will not undo battery degradation, but it could help to squeeze as much out of your battery. Sorry for long comment!
I think its not accurate at the top end, simply because at 0% its not actually 0% .. just like a gas car, when you reach "empty" you still have about 20-30 (depends on the car) miles left.
I found out the tough way, that when my tesla reached 0% , I still safely made it home which was about 11 miles away from the point of reaching 0%
From ~25k to ~35k miles my battery with stuck on full charge of about 289 miles full charge. It didn't budge at all, i figured it was degradation. I typically charge to 80% during the warm months and 90% during the winter months. Well over the last 1k miles I have been charging my car to 100% when I plan on going 180+ miles. After about 3 full charge charges I am now at 297 miles full charge. (Dual Motor with aero)
Battery re-calibration rumors have been alive since 2010 when the LEAF first came out. It never ceased to amaze me that folks thought they could positively influence the behavior of a fully automated BMS.
Exactly!
There is some merit to it, though. When people charge to about 70/80% daily at some point the battery will "unlearn" the total capacity and report less mileage (less kWh). Charging to 100% is then recommended and will&could help. This is even in the book and has been explained on a few occasions. Tesla could also reset the BMS manually.
Automatet but not active, those bms are passive, meaning they only top balance the pack while pluged in and sitting at 100%
@@1kruxi With the LEAF the premise that balancing only occurs at 100% was defeated when LEAFSpy Pro came out. It became clear the BMS was shunting voltages between cell pairs while the car was being driven and/or charged. This continual balancing never stops while the LEAF is driven or charged.
How does Tesla balance? No idea. There is a version for LEAFSpy available I believe for S/X cars. If anyone has data from that pls share.
@@marcusbiller867 Charge limit is part of the equation. Also to be considered is that depth of discharge helps the BMS keep itself calibrated. If one only does short journeys and keeps the charge limit to 70% the BMS can get very confused. This happened to Kim of LikeTesla. I too charged to 70% but never saw the huge discrepancies that Kim did. The difference is the fact I drive anywhere between 80 and 120 miles each workday.
We just ordered our model 3 with your referral code as a thank you for the helpful videos making our decision sealed! Thanks again and keep it up!
Woo congratulations 🎉 and thank you so much! What config did you order? Let me know when you get it :D
@@DirtyTesla just a modest SR+ and took advantage of the free upgrades so got the red with 19 inch rims (not sure if the range loss is worth it, but frees free!)
@@jessegoldberg1679 woooooo free stuff! Congrats again. I see you in my app :)
Also, nothing modest about an SR+ still a killer car
Dude. I love your videos. Just got my Model Y a few weeks ago and have been going down the rabbit hole of Tesla videos on TH-cam for almost 2 months first getting for my purchase and now that I’ve gotten it. I find your videos funny, informative, well presented and just geeky enough. Keep up the good work.
Thanks a ton! Enjoy the Y!! It's amazing
@@DirtyTesla it is amazing. I love it. I know I’m probably worrying prematurely but I moved my wifi mesh module closer to the garage which increased my wifi signal in the MY to see if that was holding up the software. Now I have a full strength signal. So far it still hasn’t shown up but I noticed when I get in the car it takes a few seconds while the car wakes up before it connects to the wifi. I assume that’s normal and not anything inhibiting me from the software upgrade. I have my setting in the car on “advanced”.
@@donaldfilicetti1640 yeah it takes a bit after delivery to start getting updates. And there's normally a few main versions floating around :)
Great video. Thank you. Those who comment and say not to worry or it is just an algorithm problem or, worse yet, just look at percentage and don't stress , are missing the point completely. Someone like myself who has a LR AWD DM model 3 and who has obeyed all the best charging practices, should be able to physically drive over 300 miles IF you drive at 242 Wh/mile. Period. It is what you paid for.
I have also tried "recallibrating" and in fact today at 10,000 plus miles can now only get 284 miles at 100 percent charge. Not just on the screen but in real life. For those who deny this or are critical of those who are increasingly bringing this up, you are simply not correct. End of story.
I am hopeful that there is a software fix but as of now I have lost almost 10 percent of range in my first 9 months of ownership. This is not acceptable.
It is software. The 284 is just a guess. I have 35k miles on mine. It has shown full charge estimate as low at 280 miles. I hopped in my car and drove from Park City Utah to Elko Nevada with an average speed of 78mph (cruise control 88 on 80) and made it no problem. Just use your nav to get to the next charger and don't worry about it. You did not lose that range, it just looks like you did. After a couple weeks of topping off in the am to 100% when going on a longer drive, my rated range is now 297 miles. Showing 284 miles or 297 miles doesn't change my ability to get to the next supercharger at all...
You will degrade ~5% the first year and then slower after that but continual degradation. It is chemistry. You didn't pay for a magic never degrading battery.
Scott Fauque So does the loss of nearly 10 percent of rated range and even more of actual range in 8 months somehow "magically" negate my argument or comment? So at what point can I comment and have you at least acquiesce that there might be a legitimate problem? Is 15 percent of loss in 8 months acceptable ?
Mr Toad's Wild Ride yes, because it is phantom range loss. If your battery is actually bad, Tesla will fix it. My car say at a lower “estimated full charge” for well over 10,000 miles before it went back up. Slide your soc barb a little to the right if you need to. But seriously just drive your car.
By chance, today I had mobile service out to install homelink. He had to disconnect the 12V battery a few times. Before service I was at 79%, after it was 80% (and I was unplugged). Now my M3 shows no degradation after 1800 miles. Maybe 12V battery has something to do with an actually re calibration.
Also he might of hard reset the car since he kept going in the back seat also??
Seems likely to get the homelink to work. I am not sure tho
Thanks for dispelling the rumor about calibration. The rumor may have started from electric model RC hobby batteries. When I was a remote control pilot the batteries would balance the cell and go very slowly in the last part of the charging cycle. And you could see that it was balancing each of the cells on the charger. TESLA doesn’t give you the option obviously with 3000 cells it would be hard to do.
Another thing to keep in mind is that when I charge in hot environments I have seen my car add between three and 5% in the first five minutes after charging and a supercharger station. I believe this is due to the battery cooling because I can hear the cooling fan running vigorously for several minutes after I leave when it’s hot. As the battery cools the indicator has added as much is 5% on one of my cross country trips. And you’re correct the healthiest thing to do to your battery would always be to run it between 60% SOC and 40% SOC. We would get as much is three times the 1300 0 to 100% SOC the Tesla rates the battery pack for. But since that’s not practical 30-70 SOC or 20-80 SOC are the next best things.
BMS calibrating can take as many as 5 efforts. Also charging on 110v seems to be very effective for this too. It’s worked for many of us In the community, beginning with my 2013 Model S, and my Model 3.
More rumors! 😂 I'll have to do battery calibration episode 2!
Calibrating on a 120v would take like a week x_x
If you’ve been around since the beginning, and followed the TMC forums, you’d know about this already. ;)
@@SCWgreg I have not been around since the beginning that's for sure.
I bet you $1 this will be fixed in a future software update :)
I should add, after your first 100% charge, you’ll never get that level of range again. But these steps will give you noticeable improvement in range, as your battery ages. Do another run down to 15% or 20% or so, then (if you can), let the car charge off 110v to 100%. I’ll bet you get 5 or more miles back.
@@SCWgreg are you just trolling me now? 😂 20% to 100% would take like 2 days...
Miles of range is like mpg in a car. Just because the "tank" holds 310 miles of fuel based on the EPA estimated mpg doesn't mean you're going to get 310 miles out of the "tank" of fuel. And to be honest I don't care if my Tesla is 100% accurate on rate at 100% charge. I care a lot more if it's accurate at 10% charged.
"accurate at 10%" is a great point
"The only card that matters is the last one you turn over"
If we were waving to other tesla drivers here in Norway, the autopilot system needs to be 100% flawless
Actually what is the meaning of this here in germany
It's not for gaining miles its for the BMS so that it knows what is the lowest and what is the highest voltage for each battery.
For this you need to drive right before the car would stop you, so a few miles below 0 %. And then charge up to 100, doesnt matter if SC or @ Home
How fast and far should you run your battery down as soon as it hits 100% Drain it to at least 80%?
Your observations of "less than full" (300 miles) on the screen when you expected 310, is probably the result of small inaccuracy of the algorithm used to show this number. Tesla engineers are probably not too concerned about this since the error appears to be on the low side of mileage available. Therefore you are not likely to "run out of battery" before coming to your destination. As you observed, the mileage estimates at the low end of the battery charge appear to be spot-on. Since a driver would be most concerned about making it to his/her destination before the battery runs "dry" therefore the algorithm provides quite accurate mileage estimates of the battery condition at the low end of the battery charge.
No1 Tesla Fanboy over here, i love your videos
BTW, the truck and bikes @5:35. While, maybe, the truck could have changed lane, although did not have to, You are merging and you MUST do it in a way that does not disturb the traffic. You cannot expect all drivers to slow down to let you in. So the bikes should have done it slightly better way. Besides, the bikers waited till the very last moment to suddenly appear in the front of the truck with a trailer making the driver slow down. On the top of that - there were cars on other lanes not allowing him to change the lane.
Is is not changing your range because it just adapt to your way to drive making the average of all you last session? Or making the average regarding the consommation of your usual driving session?
So if I'm right, it could go down or up between the max and the lower numbers of consummation depending of your way to drive and maybe area or temperature.
No it doesn't change based on driving habits.
No, rated range is fixed number based on kWh available. kWh/15 gives you the mileage range in the monitor.
@@DirtyTesla Well this guys says it does th-cam.com/video/BhE-ZzRwVeA/w-d-xo.html
BMS balance at a very slow rate on most batteries requiring to be left on charger at 100% to balance cells. It works this way on ebike batteries but maybe Tesla BMS can balance much faster. 20Ah ebike battery charges at 5,000 mah (5 amps per hour) but the BMS balances at 30 mah. Range is down to your driving style
Hello! I know this is an older video, but I’ve talked to Tesla yesterday, cause my TM3 LR AWD only shows 462 km instead of 560 km I was concerned, but told the calibration would work, also the colder weather could take some km. The guy at Tesla told me to wait after I came home to charge, cause the BMS needs to find the lower numbers before charging (only because you’ve charged right away at the supercharger). I don’t know yet if it will work but I hope, since a loss of 80 km is to much for a 1.5 year old car with 25000 km on the odometer
Per Tesla battery tech you have to wait at least couple of hours at low stage (5-10%) before charging to 90% then wait again before using your car. After doing this couple of times bms will reset itself.
3:30 I spent longer than I care to admit wondering "Why is there an advert for Trident being displayed?...."
One big unknown is the W/mi of the odometer. I suspect this is a key metric in the "guess o' meter" and possibly the W/mi of the most recent charge. A more accurate reading would be to use a low to full charge with a recording L2 charger (or Killawatt device.) New, we saw about 55kWh to fully charge the car.
Simply divide rated miles remaining by charge % to get the effective full-charge miles. No need to estimate by saying “oh well 13% of 310 is 40 so 39 is close...” and so on. Most of the examples you mentioned resulted in a full charge of of 300 miles (e.g 39/13% and 21/7%). It’s just easier math.
Why does my model 3 only charge to 200miles at 100% charge if Tesla states the most basic model should get 256 miles?
I think the range slowly adjust to your habits. If your driving below the rates limit then the range increased. I have the LR RWD and in winter 80% was showing around 250. Then after summer got here and it wasn’t as cold that same 80% now shows 265 to 268.
No it doesn't.
Both of our 3s are showing 274-276 at 90% charged, down from the normal 279-280. My Performance uses at least 20% more energy than our LR3D at the same speed. I can only manage at most 250 miles on a full charge in the P while the LR3D will hit close to 290.
I wouldn't worry about 3 or 4 miles dip, perfectly normal. Even my 10 mile dip idc.
Dirty Tesla yeah I’m not that worried about it. I just don’t want my 1-month old car to start dropping 3-5 miles a month. If it continues I’ll have to get it looked at. I’ve only got about 4700 miles on the car and it was purchased with 3 miles on it August 9th.
I'm here because my Model 3 battery range recently went from 355 to 345. I saw somewhere else that once the battery is below 10% you should let it sleep for at least a couple hours to let it balance. But who knows if that works either. It takes me over a week to get my battery below 10%, so I haven't been able to do all the tests I've wanted.
With my Model 3 long range AWD, the range dropped 5 miles around July 4th, 2019. My range dropped another 5 miles around Sept 14, 2019. Pretty identical to you, which makes me think that it is due to software updates. Maybe Tesla is making secret software updates?
Same here, AWD Model 3 17,300mi 90% currently 270mi (EPA) 6mi less than last month. I'm also hoping it's a software issue
Any updates instructions to get range back???
No but I am working on a battery video
@@DirtyTesla my MYP was 306 miles and now only 245 miles. Not sure if it’s a problem or needs a calibration? That’s a huge loss in less than a year
I’ve had my M3P for 13 months. 90% is now 242 miles. 100% is 270. How did I lose so much in a year?
Thanks for putting the answer in the title :D
I got you 👍
2017 MX 100D. I’m not seeing charge to 100% (96% initially) plus apparent range loss from 294 new to about 265 now. I’ve tried the BMS recalibration process of letting charge go down to about 10%, sit for 2 hrs, charge to “100%” at home or until the charging process stops, let the vehicle sit for 1-2 hrs, then drive to reduce charge to 90%. I’ve done 2 cycles with a week+ in between, and the max charge is 97% now. I’ll keep trying this process for a few more times, but the fact that the battery/BMS won’t charge to 100% is bothering me.
What about the BMS reset feature in the Service mode menu? Completely undocumented AFAIK. Anyone have experience with this or knowledge about this? Could it be a shortcut to regaining range & full charge level?
Hey there, I bought my model Y in sep,2020 and from 326 is at 317. Don’t really know what’s with that.
It will fluctuate. Save yourself the headache and change to % lol
What about voltage balancing? Aren't you supposed to wait a few hours for the voltages in the pack to settle down?
Reason why you're not getting the 310 mi range after 100% charge is because the algorithms looks at car's historic consumption to predict the range. If you drive very light footed and very efficiently (35-45 mph) thru several charges, that total will go up.
False
What’s with the blue thing on your steering wheel?
I used to keep it on there so people could see autopilot's slight movements of the wheel in videos. I want to put something back.
Why do you have to connect to wifi for the software update?
Tesla doesn't want to use their data for it. It'll come to you eventually on LTE, but many weeks later than everyone else.
A factor to see good range after charging is the way you drive. If you drive real fast just before you start charging that is going to influence negatively the miles range.
The main display does not change based on driving habits
@@DirtyTesla Ok. I don't have any experience with Tesla. My experience is with BMW C-Evo LR. When I drive fast the last miles before charging it affects the range reading.
@@iuriqv9359 yeah the range based on driving habit is on a different screen
Thanks for all of the videos you create and the information you give. I used your referral code to purchase my model 3 last night. So pumped.
Congratulations 🎉 and Thank You for using my code! What spec did you order?! It's gonna be awesome!
Dirty Tesla I ordered the standard range, white, aero wheels, with fsd. After much debate we decided we didn’t need to spend the extra $ for the long range.
So the "extreme" calibration has been a thing for years with MS batteries, but we know that MS and M3 have different batteries and battery management systems. I have not heard anybody mention that you can actually calibrate the new models M3 or MS raven. Also as others have mentioned, the software might actually take care of it now or Tesla just balances better as we charge now. In any case, the argument was if you only charge 20% to 80% for years and 50k miles, then you would need to let the the batteries max capacity re-balance, to show a more correct range. Also supercharging is told to destroy (wear down faster) the batteries, does it actually do that?
It's a general rule charging is always worse for batteries. But there's plenty of evidence of people supercharging regularly with no more degradation than anyone else.
Mine 2019 LR AWD with boost says 277 mi.at 100% with only 22.000 mi driven. 95% of time charging with AC 3,6 kw at home to max. 90%.
Should i give this calibration a try?
You can try but i don't think it'll do much
I have 2019 3P Says 278 at 100% and 22,000 miles also. About 7% loss. Last year at 13,000 it was about 2.5% loss. I had Summon stand by on for long time without realising and it showed 10% loss. Turning that off returned about 3%.
I have model 3 2021 and only 7.300 miles on it and my battery now at 326 vs original 357. 🤔
My understanding is that the mileage you see is based on calculations using your driving habits over some amount of miles, not a strict 100% to 310 miles. Example: You won’t get 310 miles of range if you are on a racetrack doing 140mph and a lot of stopping then slamming the pedal to the medal. It’s better to do proper charging and calm driving to get full mileage. Also battery degradation will most likely show up as the battery not getting back to 100%. Then is when you will know for sure. The one that should know is the Model S owner that has 300,000 miles.
That is not true. If it was, people would see their ranged reduced by 20%-50% in the winter and no one sees this. If they did, there'd be mass panic 😂
Your understanding is wrong.
My P85 had 15 miles range removed by Tesla without any warning which is a bummer. sC said it would be to protect battery long term which I guess is good but still wish I’d had a message on software update page.
5 miles came back after next update.
Chris - your car had lost < 10 miles of range, so I’m not surprised this didn’t do much. My M3P from Sept 2018 has lost about 12% according to TeslaFi (looks like that is what you use?) - down to 272 miles for expected 100% range. Doing a 3% to 100% recalibration now (at home). Per others, I’m letting it sit for 2 hours at both ends of the charge cycle to allow the BMS to “rebalance” (if there is anything to this). FYI - my car is spending months at 80% or 85% charge at home with just every few days using 10-20% of the battery. Also, did you check the Energy graph? The battery % on the main display is not based on any of your driving habits; it is just EPA range max * estimated battery level.
2018 20k mile tesla 3, always charged at home.
There really shouldnt be degradation 🤷🏻♂️🤔
Excited to try this!!!
there will absolutely be degradation. Batteries degrade over time, not just charging cycles.
I got 2019.32.2.2 last night and have not charged to 100% yet.
What have you charged to? 80% should be 248. 90% should be 279
I’m looking at 204 miles at 90 percent when it should be 216
Car is 2 months old 6500 miles
I called TESLA and they said that it’s a good time to bring it in because it’s out of parameter.
Really??? No way...I have heard they pretty much shoot everyone down since it's not at the 30% degradation that triggers warranty.
Dirty Tesla I just have an appointment in Orlando. They let me record last time while picking up the car so I’ll try again and document what they say. 25th is appointment.
Yes plz update me
@@MarkDickinson an update would be really informative .. and I hope everything is ok with your car (maybe they only need to adjust something .. or exchange a single cell .. some cells discharge super quick and then whole bricks of batteries get "shut down" to not damage cells that discharge faster than others)
@@DJRaffa1000 that was my thought too.
Non-Tesla EV owner here...
Based on my experience with battery charging and range is that the anticipated range is strictly related to my driving habits. Or style, I should say.
Sure, this is based on 500e, which is nowhere near software wise to Tesla, but still. I can get 100% and see 122 miles expected or I can see as low as 75 miles. It all depends how I was driving for the last (unknown) number of miles, or maybe lat charge. I know the battery may need to be balanced (each cell in the string getting same energy), but the problem is that the weakest link will limit the overall capacity of the string.
The main Tesla battery display doesn't change based on driving habits. That's on a different screen
@@DirtyTesla Oh, I see. I was not aware of it. Thanks!
But still, could the anticipated range be somehow altered by the style and conditions of the drive (despite of what the manufacturer/manual says)?
From chemistry side - batteries most of the time prefer slower charging over fast in order to get full capacity (hence the trickle charge in the end). Going this route - one could imply doing Level 1 or Level 2 capped at 10 A might restore full capacity.
Also, temperature plays big role here.
In FIAT I can read voltage of each individual cell. This can tell me how good/bad they are. At least to some extent... Could this be done with Tesla, too?
The system is quite simple, on one hand, but on the other, there are so many assumptions and safety features involved that complicates the battery string charging characteristic. What applies to one cylindrical battery, may not really be same here...
Yet, in the end I think it is simply algorithm in the software counting charges/discharges cycles and not allowing for more charge to be dumped. Hence less power delivered.
And that is what I would actually compare.
How much charge was DELIVERED based on % (that is 100 kWh battery - 70% should take 70 kWh, while charging more likely 75-80 kWh due to charging efficiency and lost power in heat and cooling pump).
what's that blue tape on top of the steering wheel for?
When I do autopilot videos it makes it easier for people to see the small adjustments to the wheelade by autopilot.
Amazing how people obsess over the mileage number. To determine charge termination, the charger is measuring the battery pack and is looking for a particular voltage set point, if the pack hits that threshold before you get your magic 310 miles, then it will terminate and you will only see 300 miles or 298 miles, or whatever is on the screen. Not to mention, and I think more people do understand this, that the range is only a calculated number, just like in a gas car.
Wait. Didn’t Tesla release an upgrade a while ago increasing the upper mileage to 325mi? I have a RWD LR and After 1 year, I usually get ~318mi after a full charge.
Only for RWD, not AWD, and even then some RWD ppl got reverted to 310 miles
Dirty Tesla Hmmm. Didn’t know that. Was there any comms from Tesla on the recent reduction?
@@errodrigues nothing. No one is sure why or how they decided.
In short, what is the factual method to recalibrate the BMS? My MYP only charges to 270 miles and it was 306miles. I only drive 25 miles per day but I drive mega fast. I ran down to 13% and then to 100 and only got the 270. Maybe I need to go to 5%?
No one knows besides some engineers at Tesla. I have seen no proof of anything working definitively.
Just curious, doesn't the range account for variations in weather? So if it's cold or raining or super hot, will the range indicate differently?
No, not in the main battery display. Only for routing. And it doesn't take temperature into account, just distance, speed, and elevation.
@@DirtyTesla Interesting, you think it would be effected by temp and display differently. The loss in range must be due to the baby and dog you store in the air intake. lol Btw did you hear amazon ordered 100,000 delivery Van's through Rivian?
@@travisg2224 I did hear about that. I am trying to interview someone at Rivian but I haven't heard back yet :(
@@DirtyTesla I'm sure they are swamped at the moment
Normally to calibrate a battery, it has to be charged all the way and then discharged all the way, straight, without any recharging in the middle ( i.e. regenerative breaking ), so this is only something they can do in the shop.
Now that's one I've never heard before 😂
My _guess_ is the recalibration is about training the computer not just running down the battery and charging back up. You're driving the car aggressively so you're training the computer to estimate a lower range. Plus, are you using AC?
What's your kWh/mile? You can plug that number into the equation.
I'm curious what the actual range was 100->10%? If you charger to 100 then set your trip computer and see how far you get. Might have to turn off AC, etc and drive reasonable.
The main battery display is not effected by driving habits
I could get 400 miles on a charge if I hyper mile. The only way is to see how many kwh I can squeeze out of the pack, but even that is only so accurate.
@@DirtyTesla Makes sense. I've seen forum posts referencing Tesla Service reps saying otherwise. I understand it's not uncommon for them to be wrong.
P.s. Thanks for checking it out. I enjoyed your video.
@@davidroberts3152 Glad you enjoyed! Yes, even the service reps, support, etc will give wrong information. If the battery changed based on driving habits, everyone's estimate would be cut in half in the winter lol
I wish more people understood what you said in the first couple minutes of video. The battery levels are an *estimate*. Even if that estimate is 98/99% correct, that’s still a difference of several miles.
ROFL at the motorbike!
I think most battery degradation actually does happen early in the batteries life. And then as the car ages you will see a very very slight increase.
this is what happened with news coulomb and his Chevrolet bolt EV.
I think he saw nine percent degradation in the first fifty thousand miles.. but he has over a hundred thousand on it now and the degradation has not changed at all since then. He's got some pretty good data as well he's put a hundred thousand miles on that car in 2 years.
And is using fast-charging virtually every time, as well as running is battery down to very low percentage is pretty regularly.
Btw outside temp is geting lower that is why you lose some on 100%...
My 3 is “brand new” and have maxed out at 302 miles. I now have 5k miles and still only get 302. I’ve run it down to 0% charges to 100%. Daily charging to @80%-85%. Some supercharging. Still only 302 miles. I’m not sure any of this calibrating even works. I’m sure it’s a software thing or the fact that manufacturing will never give you 100% exact figures. Tesla doesn’t use traditional manufacturing processes so the consistency of the battery’s energy volume will fluctuate between cars. I’d still think software would still tell us 310. At least I appreciate Tesla’s honesty showing us true energy numbers and not a fake 310.
What software version are you on?
Just updated to 2019.32.2.1
how many miles does the car have on it in the video?
How/where are you keeping track of your degradation (see 1:25). Thanks!
Teslafi!
I have the same issue. LR AWD 292 max miles. Battery calibration is a waste of time, I have tried it and nothing changes. I don't understand switching to percent, because how do you know is more right than miles. Mine is 16 miles off so if I am in percent it should on charge to 95 percent not 100.
Drew Douglas % is based off voltage of pack. Miles range is determined as an estimate based on your driving habits and pack voltage.
Wrong.
Just keep in mind that just about all the battery degradation/calibration issues are pertaining to the 18650 batteries. You can'r really do a test on your more advanced batteries to dispel issues faced by some customers with 18650 batteries.
But the suggestion of calibration is still told to Model 3 owners.
This video was sponsored by Trident gum. When you chew Trident gum...
Yo teeth be flossin!
Did you ever get a resolution to this issue? I got my model 3 in June and it’s doing the same thing. I’m trying to figure it out now.
So many anecdotes, personal observations, actual tests (by Dirty Tesla for example), suggestions, hypothesis from many Tesla owners about health and degradation of our cars' batteries!
And absolute deafening silence from Tesla! Not a word, not a comment, not a directive other than limiting charge to 80/90%, which the vast majority of drivers duly observe in any case, but still can result in considerable range loss in a short period of time.
By being totally quiet on the subject it looks as if Tesla know something is wrong but absolutely want to avoid making waves, sticking their head up and being confronted and positively respond to the real fast battery degradation problems, afflicting and reported by many drivers.
I found that 2019.32.1 created a sharp drop in my max range. I see that was the version that you were running when you showed your range graph near the beginning of your video. I went from 503km to 497. It has stayed at 497 ever since. I am confident that Tesla changed the range calculation algorithm in v2019.32.1 as there is no way we all suddenly suffered battery deg at the same time and 'coincidentally' when we installed v2019.32.1
(2018 Model S 100D)
I have no idea what Tesla's algorithm does to estimate range but if I were them I would base it on the driving habits of the owner. If I have a lead foot and drive way over the speed limit I would want that reflected in the estimated range so I have a realistic expectation of how far I can go. The EPA estimate is based on a specific route driven under specific conditions using a specific acceleration/deceleration rate over the route. I would also expect that when the car was new it would base its range estimate on the EPA model and then gradually adjust the range based on learning how the owner actually drives. The idea that all owners no matter their driving style will get the same EPA 310 mile range is not a reasonable expectation.
There is a separate screen that estimates off driving behavior.
Is it possible that the expected range is based on driving habits? If you drive it harder to get below 10%, will it assume that you will drive like that for the next few hundred miles?
Nope
I'm having similar rage readings on my SR+. I've been told that driving habits also impact the numbers, so "driving fast" to drain the battery might hurt your projected miles. (not sure if it's true, although Have observed some trends that the number is less when I drive more aggressive) You should retest, & drive efficiently and all in one trip. Although, based on my recent data, it won't work either.
It's not true. Otherwise everyone's range would tank in the winter
Is it possible that the 100%=300 miles is only a prediction that is based on your driving pattern in the past? Meaning, an average driver who drives at normal speed would get 325, and a slow driver would get 335 miles?
Nope, prediction by driving habit is a different screen.
I have seen 2 TH-cam videos recently where 2 different guys claimed they had zero range loss after about a year and a half. The only thing I could see that they did differently from me is that they always plugged the car in, even when it is NOT charging. I'm not sure why that would be beneficial. Maybe it's trickle charging? Or the BMS has a stable reference for determining actual battery capacity? Not sure.
Could it be that it is tempering that limit based on how you drive (or have driven over the last 1000 miles)? I know my ICE cars report different overall ranges when I fill their tanks based on how I've been driving them.
Nope, Tesla says the displayed range is not related to driving habits
www.tesla.com/support/range
What about the software change that was to bring the max Model 3 long range battery range up to 325 miles? I might be way behind but did that ever happen or was that a rumor? Thanks!
It happens to only long range rear wheel drive vehicles, but then some lost it in future updates so... It's strange lol
Surely there is rounding error in there. 50% could be 49.5 or 50.4. That makes the low end of battery charge multiple up the error making range look higher.
You can just tap the percentage next to the battery icon and it will switch to range. No need to go in the menus
This video was from 2019. That little trick was added in a software update sometime in 2021.
Just over 3% degradation (if it is actually reduced battery capacity) in about 20k miles doesn’t seem horrible since degradation happens most quickly at the beginning of the battery’s life and should level off as more cycles are put on it.
Right, but the sudden decrease makes me suspicious
As far as I learned from UNTERBLOG youtube channel it is important to go to really near zero load for the BMS to recalibrate
When you started it was 6:08 with 55 minutes remaining. When you finally finished it was 7:40. (1:32) lol. It also cost you $15.85 . I rarely charge to 100% only for road trips. I only Super charge up to 80 to 90% when the charge drops to 100 mph I stop and top off at home. I bet it cost you at least a third of your total of the $15.85 in the last 10% of charge.
Yeah unfortunately in MI it's per minute not per kWh. I am lucky enough to have free supercharging for 70 thousand miles tho thanks to referrals
After 6500 miles, i have the same problem. Lost about 5 to 7 miles at 80%. I don't really charge to 100% that often. I think i only charged to 100% 3 times.
1.5% degradation is normal. After 10,000km that should equal to about your 5miles.
@@marcusbiller867 so it means after 100k km it's going to be 15% ? and 30% after 200k km ?
No, generally you'll see the biggest degradation (5% or more) in the first year. After that, it can be 1% degradation per year or less
@@alainparent7629 Yes, and after that it will be 150%....Of Course not, At 200k it should be around 8-9% max.
@@DirtyTesla You can't really measure that by years, because you don't know how many miles they are driving, how often they are charging etc. 5% "in the first year" (whatever that means) is a lot, unless you drive 100 000 miles and only Supercharge. I have about 1% or less degradation at around 12,000km and that is "the first half year".
Sure wish Tesla would just display both the miles and the range at the same time.
Excellent video! I’m in the middle of doing the exact same tests. Like you, it took me three days to go from 100% down to under 10% charge for the first cycle. My estimated range was only 294 miles for the first charge to 100%, so we’ll see how much I “gain” after my trip to the Supercharger tonight.
Bjørn showed something interesting in his video where he was able to drive for miles after doing a cycle like this without the estimated range changing at all. So, that is something I’m going to try. I’m also going to do three full cycles and see if *that* makes any difference. Will be interesting to see.
Yeah, after I started driving at 100% my miles started going down like normal. I'd love to get even closer to 0 but it's so time consuming and bad for the battery...
Are you on 2019.32 something as well? I think this software version is just killing the BMS
@@DirtyTesla I'm one of the lucky ones stuck on 28.3.1 even though I have FSD and update preference set to Advanced...
What is the established criteria for significant degradation that warrants Tesla battery replacement?
I see it commonly stated by several Tesla TH-camrs that the batteries are predicated to last 500k miles...
If you have over 30% degradation in 8 years or 120k miles Tesla will replace it. Something like 6 years 100k miles for SR models.
Tesla states 300k-500k miles themselves
m
2019 mid March Model 3 AWD 17,300 mi @ 90% charge currently showing 270mi . 6 miles less than a month ago
Yep exact same that I get
My battery full charge estimate dropped from 307 to 300 miles right around that same time (17-18k miles). At a little over a year and 35k miles I get a full charge estimate of 297 and it has been trending up. I think the initial 5% battery degradation happens in that first 20k miles.
I attempted to recalibrate but bringing below 5% and straight charge overnight at home to 100%. But that did not help. Other times I keep filling upto 90% daily regardless of how much Or how little I drive. In order for algorithm to recalculate but again no luck. Tesla service center told me because I drive aggressive it is calculated based of 7 to 8 week of driving habit that range. I find that hard to believe Tesla. Honestly I haven’t found the answer. BTW my car also has 300 max range. Tesla told me there is nothing wrong with battery.
That 7 to 8 week thing is bs. If true, everyone's range would get murdered in the winter
Nice video and thanks for doing it. Just wanted to ask the Tesla community if there is any info on whether the speed of charging like the regular 110V or 220 V with NEMA adapter vs Superchanger damage/degrade the battery on the long run? I typically plug in my car at work 5-6 days a week at the regular outlet [5 miles/hr] typically about 60 mile and below 150 mile range remaining in the battery. I just wanted to know if this charging habit is going to mess up the battery vs just charge at home [30 miles/hr]. Any scientific info is appreciated. I searched the manual no info. Thanks again
120v or 240v are still pretty slow compared to a supercharger, and should not do any extra battery damage. Tesla does say not to supercharger constantly, but some people do and have no problems with that.
I'm general, fast charging is bad for the battery.
240 volt charging causes least degradation. A lot less than supercharging and a little less than 120 volt charging.
The battery is around 76 kWh. According to the display, you charged around 67 kWh, starting at 27 miles which I estimate to be around 6.5 kWh. So it would appear there’s about a 2.5 kWh loss, which would reflect around 10 miles @ 250 Wh/mile.
It's possible, but I'm still skeptical because of the sudden drop.
And 76kwh at 240wh/mile would be 316 miles, so I thought it was 74.5kwh or 75kwh...i know being pedantic, but it would greatly change the percent loss
Dirty Tesla I can’t find the EPA’s Certification Summary Information Report right now, but if I remember correctly it states the actual battery is just over 80 kWh and 76 of that is available to the driver, but it has been awhile since I’ve looked it up.
Here’s Teslarati’s article on the EPA’s findings: www.google.com/amp/s/www.teslarati.com/tesla-model-3-battery-pack-size-epa/amp/
@@DirtyTesla Degradation naturally occurs as crystals form in and around the SEI layer of the cells. Crystal formation is a "sudden" process so it's possible that perhaps a batch of cells within a module(s) underwent degradation within a short time period, also the BMS monitors the cells and if it detects any issues will turn those cells "off" which could explain your sudden drop.
I believe when tick over could be like 49.6-49.9 but say 50
80% is giving me 260 miles. Set 80% using the Tezlab app. I only have 1700 miles on it so the batteries are relatively new.
I Talk To Tesla Rep. Range number depends of your driving ( fast, slow, HVAC. Tires) Tesla OS running algorithm all the time .on my MX range going up and down up to 8 miles both way its always adjusted . Only need to worry about if you Battery doesn't go to 100%
That's not true and the rep is wrong. Otherwise your range would go down by 30% in the winter.
Thanks for the video. Know I know for sure I was wasting my time driving to get my battery below 10% and waiting a long time to get it to 100%. I wasn’t getting g improved results. But thanks for doing this video to prove that BMS recalibration is just a MYTH!!
Actually calibration has nothing to do with depleting the battery, but more with charging in the higher voltage. For example, when the car is charged almost to 100% it will tell you 100 percent, in order to get all battery packs to 4,2v(or whatever tesla set as the highest voltage) leave it pluged in over night and the bms will do its thing. Only works while charging, and only works when 100% charged
There is no way I'm leaving my battery 100% overnight lol