Bjorn's disclaimer is excellent. Nobody ever should do this, just use the car. You don't need to drive to absolute zero or charge to absolute max to get good range. Don't obsess about the numbers, just enjoy the car. Bjorn is doing this so that we don't have to
Spot on! Just drive, enjoy and charge when it needs to at the many many supercharger stations. We have a massive bonus with the supercharger network that makes all this range anxiety needless
Bjørn. This is probably my favorite series of videos so far. I love that you are this thorough and show everyone that theses cars don't need to be thrown out because of old age (warranty) or high mileage. Looking forward to following Millennium Falcon's further adventures 👍😊
Do the same thing, but with a DC-charger. This solved the issue for me. I reached 97% on AC. When doing DC I reached 100%, then it said ”calculating” and did so for another 55 minutes and added 4.8kWh
Hmmmmmmm........all Tesla gurus say to use slow AC from 0 to 100% for any balancing / calibration. But you could be right as the BMS will slow charge DC at the end anyway and might be able to supply a higher peak voltage than the on-board AC charger.
Hi Bjorn. Enjoying to watch your tests from Ukraine:) I think I can help you to understand the result of test. I got experience with non-official repairing Tesla’s, and some time before learned, that in this test you can check, does your battery modules got burned safety fuse terminal (small metal wire which connect cell to module). To check it you need to charge 100%, then discharge to almost zero, and check min and max cell voltages.If there big difference (more than 0,1v) present you got burned cell fuses on module. So, in your car you see, when you got very low charge level, one of the modules got such more low voltage than other (0,3v very big difference), and in case one “defect” module bms will limit the maximum level of charge trying to balance this module. But it is defect, so bms can’t do it because the capacity of one module lower than all other. The reason for this situation usually is lot of supercharging, or very often high accelerations. Hope this information will help you.
Another failure mode is one cell becoming resistive but not low enough to melt the fuse wire. This one cell will discharge the other 73 cells it is in parallel with and cause the imbalance. With rapid charging / discharging the faulty module (which can be detected with ScanMyTesla) and thermal imaging it is possible to detect the faulty cell and snip the fuse wire (it is almost impossible to change a single cell) which allows the other cells to recover (in charging that set of cells to the same level as the neighbouring 6 sets) and save that module. Also important to remember that Tesla is top balancing the cells which means a higher difference at the bottom is not unusual AND that charging to 100% is required for this balancing process to happen. Greetings to Ukraine from Australia.
Yeah, I wish he had scrolled down to show the voltages of all the modules. It looks like most were much closer to the max voltage, which leads me to believe the one degraded module is really holding back the rest of the systems from a charge/discharge standpoint.
I think it didn't say "car shutting down", because it wasn't actually on (screen says car off). If you wolud have pressed the brake, it may have given that message too.
Bjørn, first off welcome to battery gate. The reason the SoC was dropping after you did full charge wasn't due to the balancing process (yes it was a small part of it) when battery gate started in 2018 the older model S cars battery pump runs at 100% above 90% SoC no matter the temp in the battery. This can also be seen in your video. Also if you drive from above 90% even at low speed the car 'burns' away in heat as much of that extra SoC until it's below 90%. I've seen mine drop from 97% to 90% in 6 miles at 40mph in summer.
That is why 100% is only for the take off portion of a long trip, set limit to 100 and you can leave anytime over 90% with no appreciable gains. I have a 2014 S 60, not just spewing crap in the comment section.
I own a Model S with similar milage and last year I had the same behaviour with the battery like you showed here. The maximum cell voltage only went up to 4.167 Volt. I have heard that it might be good for reverse effects of lithium plating by let the car sit for while at low state of charge (eg 10-15% after a long trip) for 8-10 hours. I did this in the summer for several times and after a while the BMS allowed the cell voltage to come back to 4.200V (but slowly). Finally the car was able to charge 100% again. But as I said before, it was a slightly process.
@@gerbrandtwassink6058 On low state it's not about balancing. It's because of reverse lithium plating. My battery has done 270000km and 2/3 of it was super charging. They say that you can reverse the effect of metallic plating of lithium onto the graphite anode by letting it sit on low state of charge. Then the lithium has a change to diffuse into the graphite again. It is technical possible to measure if there is metallic lithium onto the anode because of the voltage / current reaction if you pull energy out of the battery. The difference of given capacity between 4.167 Volts and 4.200Volts is not much. It's about 0.3 kWh. I own a 70D, so I have only 14 modules instead of 16. In late 2019 Tesla reduced the full charged voltage to only 4.100 Volts and at that time I lost 2.4kWh of usable capacity. Many cars with the old batteries and a lot of supercharging were affected at that time. But surprisingly Tesla gave back the capacity later. Current degradation of my battery with 270000km is about 8-9%.
@@TeslaMomUSA Interesting ... There is one possibility if You are out of warranty. Downgrade the software to the version before that fatal update. If You search around, You will find people who can do that. Good luck!
@@arnoldcziurlok4451 that would be awesome but I upgraded to MCU2 since then. So if I did that I would presumably lose access to all the infotainment features?
I think it charges until one of the cells get too close to 100%, then stops, balances them (reducing charge a bit in the process), tries to charge again to 100%, stopping at a better 98% this time, and it would rebalance again.. In short, if you keep it plugged, I think it'd eventually hit 100%. As you also said it yourself, degradation shouldn't change the fact that it should hit its 100%. I think you can't hit 100% only when it's not balanced (since some of the cells hit 100% first, and it becomes harmful to charge further).
Yes, but I think it is possible that some of the cells are just that much more degraded, not being able to charge to 100% as a result. Even if the BMS balances all of the cells to the 5mV difference (after which cell balancing is stopped), then almost immediately when the charging starts again, the voltages of the most degraded cell starts to go up much faster compared to better cells, and as a result, charging is stopped when some of the voltages exceed the max limit with the lowest charging current (what ever that is). But I think that it is possible to run the balancing-charging sequence a couple of times more and see if it will get the cells even more in balance.
Totally agree, although there is no special magic voltage where harm starts. Doing this process already harms the cells to some extent. Leaving the pack unbalanced, and having the weaker cells have an easier life is best. This exercise is purely an academic exercise, no normal driver should ever do it.
@@rhydianlewis2867 I personally believe that balancing the cells every now and then by charging the battery slowly to 100%, and then using the battery mostly only between 10%-90% would be best for the weaker cells. This way when discharging the battery even the weaker cells will stay better in the "healthier" voltage range. If the cells get largely out of balance, not only it lowers the usable capacity of the battery, but also exposes the weaker cells to harmfully low voltages more often. In addition to maximizing usable SOC area, the other main reason for cell balancing is to prolong the lifetime of the weaker cells. However, I don't believe that (in this case) discharging the battery to absolute 0% did anything in terms of calibrating the battery, and it probably was only harmful, and should be avoided in any case. But interesting as an experiment, as you said. It has to be said, I don't know what Björn did exactly in terms of programming when he was working in the University, but I have to say that I am quite pleased with the level of knowledge he has regarding how EVs and BMS works. I have seen too many "tests" and "experiments" of electric vehicles without the understanding of how all of it works, and that's why I really appreciate these kind of tests. I'm working in the EV industry in R&D, and seeing how a BMS in Tesla works in different situations is thus very interesting to me :)
I have to add something: The maximum voltage of the battery was most likely reduced by the summer 2019.24 update which also limited the maxium charge power: forum.abetterrouteplanner.com/blogs/entry/30-tesla-supercharging-summer-2019-update So the SoH would actually be higher if the pack would be still charging to 4.2V.
Very interesting video, I would be very interested for you to experiment with the new lfp battery on the MIC SR+ apparently lfp can be charged to 100% daily.
Hi Bjorn, I have recently run this process with MS 85D, 200k km, but when trying to charge it back, I also can't move over 96-97%. Same behavior on AC or DC charger. SMT shows Nominal 67,1kWh, but I can charge only up to like 64. The problem I see is that it now charges only till cell voltage reaches 4,1V and not over. I have SW version 10.2 (2020.48.37.8). Therefore I don't see a big problem charging the car even over 90% as it is obviously voltage capped.
Is this the battery you had gotten after that one battery issue during one of the Nimber road trips? I think that was a new version of the 85 kWh as well...
@@manby7593 there was a service on MF he had gotten like a year or so after MF was delivered, and I think they had replaced the pack cause it was under warranty... I could be wrong though, who knows haha
In my technical opinion when the SOC goes to 0% each group cell will have different degradation so will have delta voltage more higher, that why tesla set a lower buffer, and when you charge upto 100% or close to it i will balance using pasive technical (resistance burning) nor active in that way BMS learn the real kwh capacity
14,58% degradation. about the voltage with a full battery, a lithium cell will naturally always drop to 4.18Volt after charging has stopped, so the difference is not that big if the battery has 4.16V instead of 4.18V and you will not notice this in capacity between 90 and 20% SOC
Bjorn, really many complements for your channel, I find it very useful, it is as if it were a social service of public utility. I follow you from Italy. I have been learning about electric mobility for more than a year now and this is also thanks to you. Many thanks for your videos. I also studied the whole history of SUC on the Tesla website. Among your videos is there any that clarifies well the inheritance of SUC, when buying a Model S used up to the year 2016 ?? I thank you in advance. A warm greeting.
Bjorn, how many 100% -> 0% -> 100% cycles did you do to help the BMS calculate full capacity? From your video it seems to be only one. Because of the balancing process, this needs to be repeated multiple times (at least 3x). Also, the bleeding of the cells uses quite small resistors and can take, not hours, but days. So I would redo the calibration exercise but give it more time. Give your car at least 2 days to balance between each cycle. Good to know: to engage the balancing circuitry, you need to charge the battery to at least 93%. I have a 6 year old Model S and have had interesting experiences with capacity after a 3 month repair job. After the car had not been used for 3 months (only cycled between 30% and 70%), it took me 5 months to bring it back up to the capacity before the accident. These experiments are quite interesting for nerds like us, keep up the good work!
My model s got stuck at 98% on full charge over the winter, and when spring came it went back to 100%, i did a few close to 0% drain during that time and charged exclusively on supercharger, i never did the complete drain shown in this video
Another theory I have is that Tesla recommends to always keep the car plugged in. This would help trickle charge and discharge cells to keep it more balanced. I feel based on my own BMS range estimation that it does a full balance every couple weeks. I don't think my car would know the top and bottom level even if it is balanced with good millivolt difference without dropping lower than 10% and back to very top. I try to charge to 100% once every 3-6 months when I remember or I feel BMS needs a calibration.
On the model 3 and Y the car will calibrate when charging limit is set to 90% so that’s why Tesla recommends you always charge to 90% so every night it can balance
Having viewed cell balancing on another TH-cam site I think that I understand why the cell diff increased after balancing. After balancing when you recharge back up to 98% you go back into the steep part of the charging curve which exposes the weak cells in the battery pack. It is at the extremes of the graph (top and bottom) where the balancing cannot compensate for the weak cells. This explains why the cell diff increases again. When you discharge back to the flat part of the curve (maybe 93% or below?) I predict that the cell diff will decrease again.
My tesla was stopped at 6km range left, how come this issue if the car is supposed to underestimate the range left if you didnt do this calibration? I dont stay 50-90% i drive the car on longer trips
Hej Björn. Kap kun kap för alla fina videor,har en S 2015 410000 km Är det en app eller via obd som du får fram alla uppgifter på telefonen? Har som mål att köra 100 000 mil. första anmärkning på Bilptovning nu i veckan ,vä spindelled glapp, ok efter 10 varv runt jorden Ulf
Open up the windows, crank it to max. all haemorrhages heaters to max. all heater you can find on max. And then like a Ninja, let the BMS know the bottom of your pack. Would do it max. once a year, or even better, only when it is out of alinement. But charging up to 100% should be done once a month, or 1-3 month. Nave a nice Sunday.
The battery is nerfed to 4.15V max and that is your new max, not the OE 4.2V. This happened with the batterygate on the classic battery. If your battery was showing bad numbers Tesla would have nerfed it even more.
Scan my Tesla had to be installed involved ripping apart a center console on the model 3. It isn’t necessarily an easy thing to do. Tesla doesn’t want you to know this info.
On the Model X/S you only remove (firm pull down) the tray below the screen and fish for a white connector to plug in an adapter cable and the Bluetooth dongle.
Is that teaching of the battery limits, called synchronization? Your battery stopped charging at 98%, because some the cells reached their limits in terms of upper voltage, while the remaining had not, also the amount of energy put into the battery does not correspond to what it can hold. Cell balancing apparently will start when the cells reach a certain voltage, which is nearly 90%, it all depends on what Tesla has programmed in the BMS cell balancing modules.
Draining battery like this is not smart. I did this, and it emptied the 12volt, and that triggers a warning that doesn’t go away even though the battery charges back up. Tesla had to reset manually, and after a short while I had to change the 12v, since it didn’t keep its charge very well. PS, Bjørn, use a mobile broadband router that distributes WiFi to your car, to get 4G on the Falcon :)
10:00 wow, that is some insane inbalance. the delta between cells should be 10mV, not 300mV. that is nuts. but 10mV you got after the turtle charge is good. ps: the bms does not "burn" off the energy when balacing. it does active balacing so it transfers the energy from the highest pack to the lowest pack.
15:50: Regarding 4.2V per cell. The normal end voltage is 4.2V. But if you reduce the cell voltage a little, you gain greatly in cycle life. Having a lower CV (constant voltage) is what's sometime referred as a top buffer. It's not uncommon to charge to 4.1V per cell if you value cycle life. My car, in comparison, charges to 4.105V...
Exactly my thought. I'm pretty sure the cells could be charged to 4.2V but the BMS simply does not do it because it wants to slow down further degradation.
i would love to have the confirmation / comment on the "only charges to 98%" from a battery engineer, preferably from tesla itself since they know every detail of their battery but i dont think the gegradation characteristics are different enough to not "ask" for an explaination from any battery engineer. But sadly i dont know any and no company (for good reasons) lets any random person talk to the engineers directly.
today i charge my model s AC 5kW from 40% to 91% and stopt the charging....let the battery rest for 3 hours,later i start the charge to 95% and stopt the charging,after this i put it to 100% and the charge stopt @ 97%. later i drove down to 94% and let it rest and charge on AC 3kW to 98%. I drove the car gentel to 97% and charge the battery on AC 3kW.......and the SOC shows now 99%! before this the scan my tesla shows 70,2kWh and now 71,2kWh. cells show 4.17xxVolt and one module number 9 is a 4.18V. This number 9 is 0.010 lower when discharge and 0.010 higher on full charge. i think a imbalance 0.100Vdc are more will effect the range big time. so a 0,015Vdc imbalance is normal(under load 0,020Vdc and rest can be 0,005Vdc)
If the battery pack is a 2013-2015 chances are it's defective and needs replacement. Unless it appeals, Tesla is going to have to pay $16,000 to each of the thousands of owners affected in the country. The fine could be even more significant as other similar legal efforts are on the way in other countries. Back in 2019, Electrek reported on several reports from Tesla owners about seeing significant drops in range from 12 to 30 miles following a software update. Only Model S and Model X vehicles with 85 kWh battery packs, which were discontinued in 2016, seem to be affected at that point.
Hi Bjorn, the voltage difference on Li-ion cells is always higher in the extremes, so it's normal to have more cell diff when closer to 4.2V and less cell diff when they are at 4.1V And in the extreme low , the voltage drops very fast.
Did you realise that Tesla topped off battery values two/three years ago in an battery update to avoid damage to old battery packs ? My P85/2014 received the same update and charges up to 375 km max. I drove 375km on 67kW and arrived at home with 30 km's left . ( I had a defect battery heater and all kinds of alarms on my display ) In spite of these warnings I drove from our second house in Winterberg without regenerative braking and paid € 700 fot the repair. This was the first cost in 7 years , only two tires at 80.000 km , now need the other two at 110.000 km's. A very cheap expensive car indeed !!
Nope! the car stil charge above 4,10Volt on a singel cell so makes no sense( 4,18V after the charger stops is natural healthy voltage) the imbalance is smal and have minimum effect on the capacity..... in contrast to the higher internal resistance of an old battery, this results in a loss of approximately 14%. If you pull harder on the battery, you will get even less energy from it because you lose this in heat due to a higher internal resistance of the cells.So it is just how the battery is used, if you go crazy on the e-pedal and if it is winter you will only be able to use 60kWh from the battery to move around, if it is 24 degrees and you drive very gentel, you will get 67kWh from the battery and you get a lot further. What then is degradation? you would say the energy that is still usable with normal use, right?
my tesla S85 cant charge more than 98%, and tesla say to me, i need charger the car since 10% to "complete" and stay plugged in "complete" some DAYS, for a day in complete the car take 1% more. and dont touch APP and enter in car during process... My english is soo profesional....
With your Tesla-Energy Calculator (Shows you % at Destination) you can also go below Zero, if you navigate to a nearby destination, even with a very High accuracy! (Can I put a picture here?)
You cay try to charge the car to 100% via DC (maybe with a 50kw „Fastcharger“). This is the only way for me to get my Tesla to real 100%. DC goes directly to the battery and must not be converted. On AC I will also not be able to charge the car past 98%. Good luck!
Honestly: Your understanding of LiIon cells is completely wrong. Your BMS does nothing to the cells, it just watches over them. A UV message from the BC is nothing that you need to provoke to get better capacity or calibration, because calibration happens on discharge. Your cells are charged until the 1st block reaches 4.2V on charge current. Since your cells are old the internal resistance is higher. So when the charge current is off the voltage on the resistive part will go to zero. That's the 2 percent missing from 100%. If you leave the charger connected it will start the balancing. Charge the battery until one block reaches 4.2V, and then bleed that block to the voltage of the lowest voltage block, cool down, repeat .... until all blocks are within a few microvolts. This is the state you want: All cells at the same voltage. This is important for the health of the pack. Discharge will then happen until the worst block in the pack reaches the low voltage cutoff limit at about 2.8V (10%) . The point of getting to this state of balance is that all cells can now be charged to the same level for many cycles without having to worry about the individual state of a cell. Going into undervolt state severely messes with this and does more harm than good. If you want to recover lost KWs for the mere purpose of seeing them again in the stats, then discharge the battery to 6% and leave the car standing for at least 48h at 6 to 10degC. Then charge with the lowest current possible until the battery is at 99%. This operation does not revive any battery - but it minimises the parasitic error voltages during the charge process. It may reduce the effect of plating in the cell and give you longer high power charge on a DC fastcharger.
Why? From what I understand of it, it is starting to balance (thus calibrate) when above 90%, so you get more realistic SoC-values from the car. But you have to keep in mind, that it is possibly not possible for the car to perfectly balance, as some cells degrade faster than others. Thus it leaves some cells at "almost full" (like 98%) to not damage those that are already full in that row/column.
@@blubb9004 Tesla battery management and electronics are so ahead of anything else on the market. Sandy Munro said that the difference in voltage was 20mV between the highest and lowest voltage cell. You basically don’t have to balance the cells unless there are issues.
@@EVPaddy we’re talking about 2 completely different things here. I’m talking about Tesla’s battery management and how are able to manage 4000-6000 cells in 1 pack and not have much of a variance in mV from cell to cell. Thats different from degradation.
@@EVPaddy yeah that’s what’s so special, if one cell does go bad the entire pack still functions properly and you only lose the capacity of that one cell. Also those weren’t my words, sandy munro said that about the model 3 and Y, he didn’t take apart the S and X so he doesn’t know about that. Just watch some stuff on his TH-cam channel, he’s an actual expert. “Munro live” is his channel name.
Regarding the danger of going down to 0 state of charge. From what I know about multi-cell battery packs for electric model airplanes, (yes I know it is not the same as Tesla battery pack)I think the same idea about what makes it dangerous for the battery might hold true. If the battery in you car was just a big single cell then you could non destructively discharge it to 0 and not harm it. But because it's made of thousands of cells, discharging the pack to 0 average you will be pushing one or more of the weaker cells into negative voltage. This is where the danger is. You never want to push a battery to negative voltage because it will ruin it chemically. When you discharge the whole battery pack to 0, as the stronger cells are traveling towards 0, the weaker cells are being slammed into reverse voltage. You are forcing current backwards through the battery cells that have already reached their own 0. This is not good. It is like the reverse of going to the bathroom. Not good...sheeiit.
I have read something about that the BMS needs an open circuit to find the high and low point on litium ion batteries. Open circuit is when the car is not used and it shut down to deep sleep. Disconnects the high voltage battery pack and only uses the 12V battery. When the battery is not in any use, the BMS will find its true voltage on high and low state. You have probably found the high point with over 90% charge for more than 2-3 hours with the car not using any power. So I recommend you to try to set the low point of the battery to run it down to under 20% and park the car for 2-3 hours with not any power usage. There was one guy that did this on his TM3 and the capasity of the pack rised again steady after multiple charging sessions following this pattern. Another thing is that the P85 pack is most likely not truly 85kwh. A guy named Jason Hughes (his nick is wk057 on tesla forums) and he took apart the P85 battery pack using them for solar power at his home, and he mean that right size on the pack is actually 81kwh. The charging not to 100% could be part of Tesla to prevent the battery fires that has been in some Tesla model S. That they are limiting the max voltage on each modules, because it could also be some imbalance in the module that could not be measured outside each battery module. I think I have read this in some of his posts earlier on tesla forum. Hope this is to any help. Thank you so much for you videos, have watched most of them.
When they replaced the battery, did you get another P85 battery or did you get one of the more recent ones since they upgraded to SR, LR and performance?
If you want to charge it to 100% you should try leaving the car plugged in for 2-3 days continuously while running the heater at 2-3kw(20C with fan on 2-3 and AC off), and leave the driver’s door opened and “keep climate on” to make it work.
There is so much guess work and different recipes available around the world. Tesla should release an official Battery Manual so owners can nurse the health of THEIR battery without all this keyboard warrior wisdom. That would be a decent thing to do, Elon. Is standard in the world of solar batteries. My guess is Bjørn got it pretty right though.
@@TheSteinbitt I am certain that balancing is only happening at high SOC. Also the range prediction becomes more and more unreliable. I drive a 300.000km MS 1st battery.
Hi Bjørn - check out th-cam.com/video/zxJsVA7PXvs/w-d-xo.html - it will soon be possible to get the old Model S and X battery packs repaired other places than at Tesla service centers :-)
@@patterisepi The original gross capacity was 85 kwh and original net capacity was 80.8kwh; see here ev-database.org/car/1031/Tesla-Model-S-85 Now the gross capacity is 70.1kwh and net capacity is 64.9kwh. If you compare net capacity is around 20% degradation (80.8-20%=64.64kwh)
@@Orca-hp4zx Google Net Capacity of Tesla Model S Battery. I happen to have a Tesla Model S Workshop manual too. Unfuortunately it only describes of how to remove the battery, not how to repair it as this is not done in the SCs (Even if only a contactor is faulty). To drop the battery is super easy as Tesla was toying with the idea of swappable batteries at the time and everything is quick connect (electrical) and self sealing (fluids).
You can ask 'DOC TESLA', alias "Ove Kröger" from Lübeck/Germany. He knows really everything about TESLA. Perhaps he can help you to recalibrate your battery.
This is a useful academic exercise, but no real driver should put this kind wear on their cells just for the sake of numbers. There is a far better way to get the range you want. If you normally drive between 10% and 90%, but the car has miscalibrated a little bit, and so 10% displayed is actually 12%, and 90% displayed is really 88%, and you desperately want that 4% back. Here is the quickest, healthiest for the battery, and most sensible way to get that extra 4% on days where you need 3 hours range, and won't be able to plug in: just charge to 92% displayed and then allow yourself to use down to 8% displayed (if you need to). Bingo, you're car now has the same or better range than a fully calibrated car being driven 90% to 10%, but without all that faffing about, wasted energy heating unecessarily, and extra wear on the battery.
Bjorn's disclaimer is excellent. Nobody ever should do this, just use the car. You don't need to drive to absolute zero or charge to absolute max to get good range. Don't obsess about the numbers, just enjoy the car. Bjorn is doing this so that we don't have to
It definitely helps those of us who see (98% -Charging Complete) and think "uh oh..."
Spot on! Just drive, enjoy and charge when it needs to at the many many supercharger stations. We have a massive bonus with the supercharger network that makes all this range anxiety needless
@@DeeKay1911 I agree to not obsess over it, but I disagreeing with DC charging all the time. AC charging when convenient is much better.
@@DeeKay1911 not everywhere has access to dc charging
@@MS-rt2jw No - here in Europe at least, it seems to be excellent. Topped up with local carrier networks it seems pretty great
Bjørn. This is probably my favorite series of videos so far. I love that you are this thorough and show everyone that theses cars don't need to be thrown out because of old age (warranty) or high mileage. Looking forward to following Millennium Falcon's further adventures 👍😊
Do the same thing, but with a DC-charger. This solved the issue for me.
I reached 97% on AC. When doing DC I reached 100%, then it said ”calculating” and did so for another 55 minutes and added 4.8kWh
Hmmmmmmm........all Tesla gurus say to use slow AC from 0 to 100% for any balancing / calibration. But you could be right as the BMS will slow charge DC at the end anyway and might be able to supply a higher peak voltage than the on-board AC charger.
@@moestrei Yeah, AC never worked for me - even on a 11kW-wallbox. DC worked like a charm!
@@emillarson89 Is your country's mains 110V or 230V?
@@moestrei 230/400.
Same with my Tesla. I use 50kw DC charger. I think DC works because it must not be converted like AC.
Thank you for all you do. So many of these tests and experiments are infinitely valuable to the community.
12% degradation after 6 years and above 200'000km this is good shieaaat. 👍
A 25 minute video of millivolts changing in a single cell pack, just my type of video :) Great!
Hi Bjorn.
Enjoying to watch your tests from Ukraine:)
I think I can help you to understand the result of test.
I got experience with non-official repairing Tesla’s, and some time before learned, that in this test you can check, does your battery modules got burned safety fuse terminal (small metal wire which connect cell to module).
To check it you need to charge 100%, then discharge to almost zero, and check min and max cell voltages.If there big difference (more than 0,1v) present you got burned cell fuses on module.
So, in your car you see, when you got very low charge level, one of the modules got such more low voltage than other (0,3v very big difference), and in case one “defect” module bms will limit the maximum level of charge trying to balance this module.
But it is defect, so bms can’t do it because the capacity of one module lower than all other.
The reason for this situation usually is lot of supercharging, or very often high accelerations.
Hope this information will help you.
Another failure mode is one cell becoming resistive but not low enough to melt the fuse wire. This one cell will discharge the other 73 cells it is in parallel with and cause the imbalance. With rapid charging / discharging the faulty module (which can be detected with ScanMyTesla) and thermal imaging it is possible to detect the faulty cell and snip the fuse wire (it is almost impossible to change a single cell) which allows the other cells to recover (in charging that set of cells to the same level as the neighbouring 6 sets) and save that module. Also important to remember that Tesla is top balancing the cells which means a higher difference at the bottom is not unusual AND that charging to 100% is required for this balancing process to happen. Greetings to Ukraine from Australia.
so one old cell have like 2600mAh/2700mAh missing in parallel effect the ballans big time? 144 cells parallel in the module?
Yeah, I wish he had scrolled down to show the voltages of all the modules. It looks like most were much closer to the max voltage, which leads me to believe the one degraded module is really holding back the rest of the systems from a charge/discharge standpoint.
I think it didn't say "car shutting down", because it wasn't actually on (screen says car off). If you wolud have pressed the brake, it may have given that message too.
As usual great work from Bjorn
Bjørn, first off welcome to battery gate. The reason the SoC was dropping after you did full charge wasn't due to the balancing process (yes it was a small part of it) when battery gate started in 2018 the older model S cars battery pump runs at 100% above 90% SoC no matter the temp in the battery. This can also be seen in your video. Also if you drive from above 90% even at low speed the car 'burns' away in heat as much of that extra SoC until it's below 90%. I've seen mine drop from 97% to 90% in 6 miles at 40mph in summer.
That is why 100% is only for the take off portion of a long trip, set limit to 100 and you can leave anytime over 90% with no appreciable gains. I have a 2014 S 60, not just spewing crap in the comment section.
I own a Model S with similar milage and last year I had the same behaviour with the battery like you showed here.
The maximum cell voltage only went up to 4.167 Volt. I have heard that it might be good for reverse effects of lithium plating by let the car sit for while at low state of charge (eg 10-15% after a long trip) for 8-10 hours.
I did this in the summer for several times and after a while the BMS allowed the cell voltage to come back to 4.200V (but slowly).
Finally the car was able to charge 100% again. But as I said before, it was a slightly process.
so depth balancing and top balancing? 0,01V les from the 4.2V top 100% charge how much is this in capacity????
@@gerbrandtwassink6058 On low state it's not about balancing. It's because of reverse lithium plating.
My battery has done 270000km and 2/3 of it was super charging. They say that you can reverse the effect of metallic plating of lithium onto the graphite anode by letting it sit on low state of charge. Then the lithium has a change to diffuse into the graphite again. It is technical possible to measure if there is metallic lithium onto the anode because of the voltage / current reaction if you pull energy out of the battery.
The difference of given capacity between 4.167 Volts and 4.200Volts is not much. It's about 0.3 kWh.
I own a 70D, so I have only 14 modules instead of 16. In late 2019 Tesla reduced the full charged voltage to only 4.100 Volts and at that time I lost 2.4kWh of usable capacity. Many cars with the old batteries and a lot of supercharging were affected at that time. But surprisingly Tesla gave back the capacity later. Current degradation of my battery with 270000km is about 8-9%.
Tesla gave back the capacity? I lost about 24 miles of charge in that update and I never got it back 😢
@@TeslaMomUSA Interesting ... There is one possibility if You are out of warranty. Downgrade the software to the version before that fatal update. If You search around, You will find people who can do that. Good luck!
@@arnoldcziurlok4451 that would be awesome but I upgraded to MCU2 since then. So if I did that I would presumably lose access to all the infotainment features?
I think it charges until one of the cells get too close to 100%, then stops, balances them (reducing charge a bit in the process), tries to charge again to 100%, stopping at a better 98% this time, and it would rebalance again..
In short, if you keep it plugged, I think it'd eventually hit 100%. As you also said it yourself, degradation shouldn't change the fact that it should hit its 100%. I think you can't hit 100% only when it's not balanced (since some of the cells hit 100% first, and it becomes harmful to charge further).
Yes, but I think it is possible that some of the cells are just that much more degraded, not being able to charge to 100% as a result. Even if the BMS balances all of the cells to the 5mV difference (after which cell balancing is stopped), then almost immediately when the charging starts again, the voltages of the most degraded cell starts to go up much faster compared to better cells, and as a result, charging is stopped when some of the voltages exceed the max limit with the lowest charging current (what ever that is). But I think that it is possible to run the balancing-charging sequence a couple of times more and see if it will get the cells even more in balance.
Totally agree, although there is no special magic voltage where harm starts. Doing this process already harms the cells to some extent. Leaving the pack unbalanced, and having the weaker cells have an easier life is best. This exercise is purely an academic exercise, no normal driver should ever do it.
@@rhydianlewis2867 I personally believe that balancing the cells every now and then by charging the battery slowly to 100%, and then using the battery mostly only between 10%-90% would be best for the weaker cells. This way when discharging the battery even the weaker cells will stay better in the "healthier" voltage range. If the cells get largely out of balance, not only it lowers the usable capacity of the battery, but also exposes the weaker cells to harmfully low voltages more often. In addition to maximizing usable SOC area, the other main reason for cell balancing is to prolong the lifetime of the weaker cells. However, I don't believe that (in this case) discharging the battery to absolute 0% did anything in terms of calibrating the battery, and it probably was only harmful, and should be avoided in any case. But interesting as an experiment, as you said.
It has to be said, I don't know what Björn did exactly in terms of programming when he was working in the University, but I have to say that I am quite pleased with the level of knowledge he has regarding how EVs and BMS works. I have seen too many "tests" and "experiments" of electric vehicles without the understanding of how all of it works, and that's why I really appreciate these kind of tests. I'm working in the EV industry in R&D, and seeing how a BMS in Tesla works in different situations is thus very interesting to me :)
e-Bjorn, well done dude.. just crank up the heat or some sheeiiitttt.. classic e-Bjorn
Great analyse... and experiment. In depth and informative. Tak igen. Du er super god. shoutout from Denmark.
Very interesting, thank you Bjorn!
10:45 I think the car leaves the last 1 kWh to move the vehicle for few km
I have to add something: The maximum voltage of the battery was most likely reduced by the summer 2019.24 update which also limited the maxium charge power: forum.abetterrouteplanner.com/blogs/entry/30-tesla-supercharging-summer-2019-update
So the SoH would actually be higher if the pack would be still charging to 4.2V.
...and it is good to see you back in the saddle again!!
This is amazing. Also I'm watching this on my birthday..keep up the great work.
I should wish you a happy birthday, Batman said to me.
@@steffen1182 thank you
Happy birthday my friend enjoy your day!!
@@bob-tr7gi lol yes indeed. Thank you. I got this video at like 1 am in the United States. Also thank you
Happy birthday!!
Good work Bjorn
Very interesting, thanks for testing Bjørn! 👍🏼
Nobody else is giving as much detail and precision information, that is great work! Thank you, Bjorn!
Very interesting video, I would be very interested for you to experiment with the new lfp battery on the MIC SR+ apparently lfp can be charged to 100% daily.
Hi Bjorn, I have recently run this process with MS 85D, 200k km, but when trying to charge it back, I also can't move over 96-97%. Same behavior on AC or DC charger. SMT shows Nominal 67,1kWh, but I can charge only up to like 64. The problem I see is that it now charges only till cell voltage reaches 4,1V and not over. I have SW version 10.2 (2020.48.37.8). Therefore I don't see a big problem charging the car even over 90% as it is obviously voltage capped.
Is this the battery you had gotten after that one battery issue during one of the Nimber road trips?
I think that was a new version of the 85 kWh as well...
@@manby7593 there was a service on MF he had gotten like a year or so after MF was delivered, and I think they had replaced the pack cause it was under warranty...
I could be wrong though, who knows haha
In my technical opinion when the SOC goes to 0% each group cell will have different degradation so will have delta voltage more higher, that why tesla set a lower buffer, and when you charge upto 100% or close to it i will balance using pasive technical (resistance burning) nor active in that way BMS learn the real kwh capacity
Having the vehicle run with the garage door closed is really dangerous.. it produces lots of carbon monoxide 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
I'm kidding, calm down
It's not as dangerous - note that the garage door was open 😁
Good to see you back. Love ur vids
Interesting video and nice to see you back to your old self again.
14,58% degradation. about the voltage with a full battery, a lithium cell will naturally always drop to 4.18Volt after charging has stopped, so the difference is not that big if the battery has 4.16V instead of 4.18V and you will not notice this in capacity between 90 and 20% SOC
Bjorn, really many complements for your channel, I find it very useful, it is as if it were a social service of public utility. I follow you from Italy. I have been learning about electric mobility for more than a year now and this is also thanks to you. Many thanks for your videos. I also studied the whole history of SUC on the Tesla website. Among your videos is there any that clarifies well the inheritance of SUC, when buying a Model S used up to the year 2016 ?? I thank you in advance. A warm greeting.
Bjorn, how many 100% -> 0% -> 100% cycles did you do to help the BMS calculate full capacity? From your video it seems to be only one. Because of the balancing process, this needs to be repeated multiple times (at least 3x). Also, the bleeding of the cells uses quite small resistors and can take, not hours, but days. So I would redo the calibration exercise but give it more time. Give your car at least 2 days to balance between each cycle. Good to know: to engage the balancing circuitry, you need to charge the battery to at least 93%. I have a 6 year old Model S and have had interesting experiences with capacity after a 3 month repair job. After the car had not been used for 3 months (only cycled between 30% and 70%), it took me 5 months to bring it back up to the capacity before the accident. These experiments are quite interesting for nerds like us, keep up the good work!
My model s got stuck at 98% on full charge over the winter, and when spring came it went back to 100%, i did a few close to 0% drain during that time and charged exclusively on supercharger, i never did the complete drain shown in this video
Another theory I have is that Tesla recommends to always keep the car plugged in. This would help trickle charge and discharge cells to keep it more balanced.
I feel based on my own BMS range estimation that it does a full balance every couple weeks. I don't think my car would know the top and bottom level even if it is balanced with good millivolt difference without dropping lower than 10% and back to very top. I try to charge to 100% once every 3-6 months when I remember or I feel BMS needs a calibration.
On the model 3 and Y the car will calibrate when charging limit is set to 90% so that’s why Tesla recommends you always charge to 90% so every night it can balance
Having viewed cell balancing on another TH-cam site I think that I understand why the cell diff increased after balancing. After balancing when you recharge back up to 98% you go back into the steep part of the charging curve which exposes the weak cells in the battery pack. It is at the extremes of the graph (top and bottom) where the balancing cannot compensate for the weak cells. This explains why the cell diff increases again. When you discharge back to the flat part of the curve (maybe 93% or below?) I predict that the cell diff will decrease again.
My tesla was stopped at 6km range left, how come this issue if the car is supposed to underestimate the range left if you didnt do this calibration? I dont stay 50-90% i drive the car on longer trips
Hej Björn. Kap kun kap för alla fina videor,har en S 2015 410000 km
Är det en app eller via obd som du får fram alla uppgifter på telefonen?
Har som mål att köra 100 000 mil. första anmärkning på Bilptovning nu i veckan ,vä spindelled glapp, ok efter 10 varv runt jorden
Ulf
Open up the windows, crank it to max. all haemorrhages heaters to max. all heater you can find on max. And then like a Ninja, let the BMS know the bottom of your pack. Would do it max. once a year, or even better, only when it is out of alinement. But charging up to 100% should be done once a month, or 1-3 month.
Nave a nice Sunday.
Thanks for a great video. I have a new model 3, do you recommend to charge to 100% once now and then to keep the BMS updated?
No
The battery is nerfed to 4.15V max and that is your new max, not the OE 4.2V. This happened with the batterygate on the classic battery. If your battery was showing bad numbers Tesla would have nerfed it even more.
Very good teaching results👍👍👍thank you and keep it going like this
Very interesting exercise, "Scan my Tesla" is a very useful tool, I wish Renault did something similar!
Scan my Tesla had to be installed involved ripping apart a center console on the model 3. It isn’t necessarily an easy thing to do. Tesla doesn’t want you to know this info.
@@superleggenda yes I have, thanks
On the Model X/S you only remove (firm pull down) the tray below the screen and fish for a white connector to plug in an adapter cable and the Bluetooth dongle.
@@superleggenda I responded to Alan H. This Tesla Bijørn video was about a Tesla?
@@lespaulranger On the Model 3 you only need to remove the panel at the back base of the center console. Easy to do.
Bjorn what kind of software are you using on your phone to show the cells voltage?
Scan My Tesla
Thanks for another great video
What are those lights above your garage doors??
Age of battery is causing one block to charge faster on higher voltage and stop whole battery from reaching full charge
Is that teaching of the battery limits, called synchronization? Your battery stopped charging at 98%, because some the cells reached their limits in terms of upper voltage, while the remaining had not, also the amount of energy put into the battery does not correspond to what it can hold. Cell balancing apparently will start when the cells reach a certain voltage, which is nearly 90%, it all depends on what Tesla has programmed in the BMS cell balancing modules.
Hi Bjoern, do you know a similar monitoring tool for non-Tesla cars like e.g. Kona Elektro? Thanks!
i have a 2014 mod S. can I use the ccs2 and 3 chargers? what do I need to do? Please, Please kindly advice.Thank you.
You need CCS upgrade. Contact Tesla.
hi what was the cost of repair that you did
Is the navigation computer on that one slower than on a model 3 from 2019? Or are the current Tesla navigation computers also lagging like that?
what about the charging curve @fastcharging?
Do u know of an alternative IOS App? I cant find it. Also any hardware or cables need it for it? I have a Model S 2015 Ap1
You could also run the car on rollers inside de garage
I would be uncomfortable with the process after the second warning.
The limits of cell voltage maybe a update that Tesla made to prevent battery degradation in the oldest model S
Is your cooling pump also working permanently, when the battery SoC is above approx. 78%? Can anyone confirm or is something wrong with my Model S?
Stuck values.
What do you mean?
what if you let the battery rest for a couple of hours before recharging, this will at least help the outlander phev
Draining battery like this is not smart. I did this, and it emptied the 12volt, and that triggers a warning that doesn’t go away even though the battery charges back up. Tesla had to reset manually, and after a short while I had to change the 12v, since it didn’t keep its charge very well. PS, Bjørn, use a mobile broadband router that distributes WiFi to your car, to get 4G on the Falcon :)
12v battery can be damaged permanently if you leave it discharged fully, li-ion has safety equipment to prevent this from happening.
- You can find more about it in the description below
+ Find no description other than a promo for MisterGreen
- 😒
10:00 wow, that is some insane inbalance. the delta between cells should be 10mV, not 300mV. that is nuts. but 10mV you got after the turtle charge is good. ps: the bms does not "burn" off the energy when balacing. it does active balacing so it transfers the energy from the highest pack to the lowest pack.
no, there is definitely no redistribution
Try to fully charge it with no more than Ac240V 8A. Max 1.9kw .
hi Bjørn,
have you tried to reset the car and than charge again to 100% ?
In my car it works than to charge 100%.
15:50: Regarding 4.2V per cell.
The normal end voltage is 4.2V. But if you reduce the cell voltage a little, you gain greatly in cycle life.
Having a lower CV (constant voltage) is what's sometime referred as a top buffer.
It's not uncommon to charge to 4.1V per cell if you value cycle life.
My car, in comparison, charges to 4.105V...
Exactly my thought. I'm pretty sure the cells could be charged to 4.2V but the BMS simply does not do it because it wants to slow down further degradation.
i would love to have the confirmation / comment on the "only charges to 98%" from a battery engineer, preferably from tesla itself since they know every detail of their battery but i dont think the gegradation characteristics are different enough to not "ask" for an explaination from any battery engineer.
But sadly i dont know any and no company (for good reasons) lets any random person talk to the engineers directly.
today i charge my model s AC 5kW from 40% to 91% and stopt the charging....let the battery rest for 3 hours,later i start the charge to 95% and stopt the charging,after this i put it to 100% and the charge stopt @ 97%. later i drove down to 94% and let it rest and charge on AC 3kW to 98%. I drove the car gentel to 97% and charge the battery on AC 3kW.......and the SOC shows now 99%! before this the scan my tesla shows 70,2kWh and now 71,2kWh. cells show 4.17xxVolt and one module number 9 is a 4.18V. This number 9 is 0.010 lower when discharge and 0.010 higher on full charge. i think a imbalance 0.100Vdc are more will effect the range big time. so a 0,015Vdc imbalance is normal(under load 0,020Vdc and rest can be 0,005Vdc)
If the battery pack is a 2013-2015 chances are it's defective and needs replacement. Unless it appeals, Tesla is going to have to pay $16,000 to each of the thousands of owners affected in the country. The fine could be even more significant as other similar legal efforts are on the way in other countries.
Back in 2019, Electrek reported on several reports from Tesla owners about seeing significant drops in range from 12 to 30 miles following a software update.
Only Model S and Model X vehicles with 85 kWh battery packs, which were discontinued in 2016, seem to be affected at that point.
Hi Bjorn, the voltage difference on Li-ion cells is always higher in the extremes, so it's normal to have more cell diff when closer to 4.2V and less cell diff when they are at 4.1V
And in the extreme low , the voltage drops very fast.
Did you realise that Tesla topped off battery values two/three years ago in an battery update to avoid damage to old battery packs ? My P85/2014 received the same update and charges up to 375 km max. I drove 375km on 67kW and arrived at home with 30 km's left . ( I had a defect battery heater and all kinds of alarms on my display ) In spite of these warnings I drove from our second house in Winterberg without regenerative braking and paid € 700 fot the repair.
This was the first cost in 7 years , only two tires at 80.000 km , now need the other two at 110.000 km's. A very cheap expensive car indeed !!
Nope! the car stil charge above 4,10Volt on a singel cell so makes no sense( 4,18V after the charger stops is natural healthy voltage) the
imbalance is smal and have minimum effect on the capacity.....
in contrast to the higher internal resistance of an old battery, this results in a loss of approximately 14%. If you pull harder on the battery, you will get even less energy from it because you lose this in heat due to a higher internal resistance of the cells.So it is just how the battery is used, if you go crazy on the e-pedal and if it is winter you will only be able to use 60kWh from the battery to move around, if it is 24 degrees and you drive very gentel, you will get 67kWh from the battery and you get a lot further. What then is degradation? you would say the energy that is still usable with normal use, right?
It looks like the Model S Plaid has cameras in the fog lights.
my tesla S85 cant charge more than 98%, and tesla say to me, i need charger the car since 10% to "complete" and stay plugged in "complete" some DAYS, for a day in complete the car take 1% more. and dont touch APP and enter in car during process...
My english is soo profesional....
With your Tesla-Energy Calculator (Shows you % at Destination) you can also go below Zero, if you navigate to a nearby destination, even with a very High accuracy! (Can I put a picture here?)
You cay try to charge the car to 100% via DC (maybe with a 50kw „Fastcharger“). This is the only way for me to get my Tesla to real 100%. DC goes directly to the battery and must not be converted. On AC I will also not be able to charge the car past 98%. Good luck!
Honestly: Your understanding of LiIon cells is completely wrong. Your BMS does nothing to the cells, it just watches over them. A UV message from the BC is nothing that you need to provoke to get better capacity or calibration, because calibration happens on discharge. Your cells are charged until the 1st block reaches 4.2V on charge current. Since your cells are old the internal resistance is higher. So when the charge current is off the voltage on the resistive part will go to zero. That's the 2 percent missing from 100%. If you leave the charger connected it will start the balancing. Charge the battery until one block reaches 4.2V, and then bleed that block to the voltage of the lowest voltage block, cool down, repeat .... until all blocks are within a few microvolts. This is the state you want: All cells at the same voltage. This is important for the health of the pack. Discharge will then happen until the worst block in the pack reaches the low voltage cutoff limit at about 2.8V (10%) . The point of getting to this state of balance is that all cells can now be charged to the same level for many cycles without having to worry about the individual state of a cell. Going into undervolt state severely messes with this and does more harm than good.
If you want to recover lost KWs for the mere purpose of seeing them again in the stats, then discharge the battery to 6% and leave the car standing for at least 48h at 6 to 10degC. Then charge with the lowest current possible until the battery is at 99%. This operation does not revive any battery - but it minimises the parasitic error voltages during the charge process. It may reduce the effect of plating in the cell and give you longer high power charge on a DC fastcharger.
And again the TH-cam myth of calibration by 0-100% is busted!
Why? From what I understand of it, it is starting to balance (thus calibrate) when above 90%, so you get more realistic SoC-values from the car. But you have to keep in mind, that it is possibly not possible for the car to perfectly balance, as some cells degrade faster than others. Thus it leaves some cells at "almost full" (like 98%) to not damage those that are already full in that row/column.
@@blubb9004 Tesla battery management and electronics are so ahead of anything else on the market. Sandy Munro said that the difference in voltage was 20mV between the highest and lowest voltage cell. You basically don’t have to balance the cells unless there are issues.
@@EVPaddy we’re talking about 2 completely different things here. I’m talking about Tesla’s battery management and how are able to manage 4000-6000 cells in 1 pack and not have much of a variance in mV from cell to cell. Thats different from degradation.
@@EVPaddy yeah that’s what’s so special, if one cell does go bad the entire pack still functions properly and you only lose the capacity of that one cell. Also those weren’t my words, sandy munro said that about the model 3 and Y, he didn’t take apart the S and X so he doesn’t know about that. Just watch some stuff on his TH-cam channel, he’s an actual expert. “Munro live” is his channel name.
Regarding the danger of going down to 0 state of charge.
From what I know about multi-cell battery packs for electric model airplanes, (yes I know it is not the same as Tesla battery pack)I think the same idea about what makes it dangerous for the battery might hold true. If the battery in you car was just a big single cell then you could non destructively discharge it to 0 and not harm it.
But because it's made of thousands of cells, discharging the pack to 0 average you will be pushing one or more of the weaker cells into negative voltage. This is where the danger is. You never want to push a battery to negative voltage because it will ruin it chemically. When you discharge the whole battery pack to 0, as the stronger cells are traveling towards 0, the weaker cells are being slammed into reverse voltage. You are forcing current backwards through the battery cells that have already reached their own 0. This is not good. It is like the reverse of going to the bathroom. Not good...sheeiit.
The battery pumps drained the battery probably. SMT says Pump 1 100%, Pump 2 65%
Those numbers seem to be incorrect.
Definitely nerdy🤓 But loved it, so educational 👍👍
I have read something about that the BMS needs an open circuit to find the high and low point on litium ion batteries. Open circuit is when the car is not used and it shut down to deep sleep. Disconnects the high voltage battery pack and only uses the 12V battery. When the battery is not in any use, the BMS will find its true voltage on high and low state. You have probably found the high point with over 90% charge for more than 2-3 hours with the car not using any power. So I recommend you to try to set the low point of the battery to run it down to under 20% and park the car for 2-3 hours with not any power usage. There was one guy that did this on his TM3 and the capasity of the pack rised again steady after multiple charging sessions following this pattern. Another thing is that the P85 pack is most likely not truly 85kwh. A guy named Jason Hughes (his nick is wk057 on tesla forums) and he took apart the P85 battery pack using them for solar power at his home, and he mean that right size on the pack is actually 81kwh. The charging not to 100% could be part of Tesla to prevent the battery fires that has been in some Tesla model S. That they are limiting the max voltage on each modules, because it could also be some imbalance in the module that could not be measured outside each battery module. I think I have read this in some of his posts earlier on tesla forum. Hope this is to any help. Thank you so much for you videos, have watched most of them.
When they replaced the battery, did you get another P85 battery or did you get one of the more recent ones since they upgraded to SR, LR and performance?
If you want to charge it to 100% you should try leaving the car plugged in for 2-3 days continuously while running the heater at 2-3kw(20C with fan on 2-3 and AC off), and leave the driver’s door opened and “keep climate on” to make it work.
Do you still have acces from the Tesla app to Millenium Falcon?
There is so much guess work and different recipes available around the world. Tesla should release an official Battery Manual so owners can nurse the health of THEIR battery without all this keyboard warrior wisdom. That would be a decent thing to do, Elon. Is standard in the world of solar batteries. My guess is Bjørn got it pretty right though.
@@TheSteinbitt I am certain that balancing is only happening at high SOC. Also the range prediction becomes more and more unreliable. I drive a 300.000km MS 1st battery.
@@moestrei 3.000.000km?
@@jespervonsildjensen Thanks....corrected. There is one in Germany with over 1.000.000 aiming for 1.600.000 km = 1.000.000 miles.
Hi Bjørn - check out th-cam.com/video/zxJsVA7PXvs/w-d-xo.html - it will soon be possible to get the old Model S and X battery packs repaired other places than at Tesla service centers :-)
Let us known how it works out. Last time I calibrate my laptop battery it generated so much heat and I end up destoried the whole laptop battery.
Love this!
70.1 left from original 85 should be around 18% of degredation 🤔
I think the original gross capacity is different from original net capacity. The gross capacity is calculated with different voltages.
@@patterisepi The original gross capacity was 85 kwh and original net capacity was 80.8kwh; see here ev-database.org/car/1031/Tesla-Model-S-85
Now the gross capacity is 70.1kwh and net capacity is 64.9kwh. If you compare net capacity is around 20% degradation (80.8-20%=64.64kwh)
All wrong as 85 is not the rated capacity (which is around 71-77.5kWh, depending on pack version) which is usable capacity + buffer (4kWh for a 85).
@@moestrei source?
@@Orca-hp4zx Google Net Capacity of Tesla Model S Battery. I happen to have a Tesla Model S Workshop manual too. Unfuortunately it only describes of how to remove the battery, not how to repair it as this is not done in the SCs (Even if only a contactor is faulty). To drop the battery is super easy as Tesla was toying with the idea of swappable batteries at the time and everything is quick connect (electrical) and self sealing (fluids).
You can ask 'DOC TESLA', alias "Ove Kröger" from Lübeck/Germany. He knows really everything about TESLA. Perhaps he can help you to recalibrate your battery.
This is a useful academic exercise, but no real driver should put this kind wear on their cells just for the sake of numbers. There is a far better way to get the range you want. If you normally drive between 10% and 90%, but the car has miscalibrated a little bit, and so 10% displayed is actually 12%, and 90% displayed is really 88%, and you desperately want that 4% back. Here is the quickest, healthiest for the battery, and most sensible way to get that extra 4% on days where you need 3 hours range, and won't be able to plug in: just charge to 92% displayed and then allow yourself to use down to 8% displayed (if you need to). Bingo, you're car now has the same or better range than a fully calibrated car being driven 90% to 10%, but without all that faffing about, wasted energy heating unecessarily, and extra wear on the battery.
Take care Bjorn, all i focused during the whole video is how out of breath you sound...
Another way to get 4% more range: drive 2% slower
Wow I’m so early