Carbon Fiber Car Mirror Cover Lessons Learned
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 18 เม.ย. 2019
- The goal was to create a mold from a car mirror cover and cast a thin part to be used as a removable skin. The part created had some small flaws that turned into a big mess.
| Supplies |
Dremel Flex Shaft
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Dremel Rotary Tool
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Face Shield
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3M Respirator Half Mask
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Carbon Fiber and Resin Suppliers I use: ACP Composites, Composite Envisions, Easy Composites
| Equipment Used |
Canon Powershot G7X
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Zoom H1 Recorder
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Giant Squid Audio Lab Mic
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Lighting Kit
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Music Credits
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I love how you're not afraid to show your failures - it's all part of developing your processes. In my experience, enamel clear is near impossible to sand/buff to the gloss you need. I've used acrylic lacquer clear, wet-sanded between coats, with good effect. A more modern material would probably be a 2-pack catalyzed urethane automotive clear, but this starts getting pricey (and if you go the rattle-can route, once you pop the can, you only have 24-48 hours to use the product).
Glad to see you are testing different approaches. I went through the same process 20 years ago. vacuum chambered the resin before laying up, tried a clear casting resin, then the layup, flamed the resin before layup, etc. Still had issues with pin holes. I do not like to do the resin top coating, sand, coat, sand, coat etc. either, way too labor intensive. I hear Resin Infusion will give you the pin hole free finish. I started in again, things have changed for the better. Now room temp pre-preg is common. Before I had to get one of the aerospace companies to give me some to try. At the time I was taking composite construction in school. So we could get some companies to donate to our school. Your process is good, and you have good knowledge, keep up the great work.
This was my first intro to your channel and I found it informative and refreshing. Mistakes and experimentation are a part of the learning process. I also find your commentary very easy to listen to and engaging. :-)
Probably best to get a vacuum system and bag the part. Thanks for posting this though, learned a few things!
Worth of effort! We never know if we dont try. This helped me really
Not sure if you have heard or tried this method before, but voids are quite common in many of the handle materials we use for knife making. What we call marble carbon fiber, and other call forged, it is even more common.
The best way I have found it to take your favorite 600 grit sandpaper and sand the surface then dont agitate the surface. Then add some of your favorite CA glue to the surface and sand the surface while spreading the CA glue with the same sandpaper you sanded with prior.
The idea being that you fill the void with dust from the actual carbon itself, in the process loading the sand paper itself with said carbon as well. Then the glue and dust forms a sort of slurry that fills the voids.
It's always hit and miss though and you end up chasing your tail quite often.
Love the channel!
I love watching this...trying things that could work, and seeing what happens even if it fails. Showing these is much more educational than people who just show the one time it miraculously worked out perfectly :)
Your voice is soothing... I almost fell asleep watching this. Not because it was boring though.. This was very cool to watch! I have never played around with CF but it's cool to see what people are doing with it and the processes!
off to watch more of your vids!
Well done Lindy.... For whatever it's worth, after thoroughly shaking the sealer to mix, put the spray can in a bucket of hot water before spraying to warm up the sealer, it will have less surface tension strength when applying a coat and will produce less orange peel. This is a technique used by auto painters when sealing a high end paint job. It's my understanding sealer goes on best at 85 degrees
Great video! That sandpaper glued to a paint stick trick is really neat! good job, best wishes from Denmark :)
Lol! It has taken me a long time to develop a (mostly) reliable system that doesn't involve the use of pre-preg reinforcement materials and an autoclave. My passion for composite fabrication and dedicated customers who fund my projects are a blessing, for sure! I hope REALISTIC videos like this one will help people understand why carbon fiber parts are so expensive.
Great attempt ! thank you for showing the process
Well done !! Learnt plenty from this - as did you !!
Thanks for sharing the project successes and failures! Great video
From my 4 years of doing carbon fiber work with PWC's and RC aircraft I never use PVA because it flakes off. For the pinholes, there are 2 ways I do it. The first is using infusion based epoxy, very thin epoxy, to create a thin cover layer that is drizzled over the part and use a heat gun to get the air bubbles out. The second way is using a 2 part clear coat, 2 to 3 coats, and wet sand and buff it out.
thank you for sharing. pretty sure you nailed th reason remolding doesnt work when you said the air cant release through the clothe. as to scraps, those would be fun to make some patch-work armor to make it look well-used liked it had been repaired a few dozen times (grin)
Good video, thanks for sharing your experience!
Very informational. Thanks for keeping the learning process honest
Enjoyable watch, reminds me of me at the beginning. I have only tried this type of layup, but I've been learning the Vacuum bag way. Good job, 😁 keep up the fabrication and inspiring others! 👩🏼🔧 People that have Trades or can fabricate are a dying bread.
Thank you.
I tried a wet lay up doing a mirror cover as well. Didn't like the results so I then vacuum bagged. It turned out much better, but still had to add and sand multiple layers of resin over.
Excellent video. I've never layed up carbon fiber, but I can relate to the frustration. I do autobody work and when I was learning the process, if something went wrong, I would just keep trying to fix it with different techniques that seldom worked, and often made the situation much worse. Desperation and tunnel vision will make you do strange things..lol
Thank you for reminding me that I'm not the only one who messes up on occasion.
And yes, pinholes are the devil; they never go away, as they are basically an air pocket that prevents fluids from entering them, no matter how many coats you put on, they only get bigger! Always blow the part off with compressed air to reveal the pinholes, or they will show up in the last minute. Thanks again!
Nothing like hands on experience to get the screw ups out of the way on something that doesn't matter.
You're awesome. Thanks for the video!
A clear gel coat applied to the mood first would help prevent pin holes and protect the epoxy underneath from UV damage(also part yellowing). If it's coated in mold make sure it's unwax gel coat. Wax will make the epoxy not stick to the coat as well as make it cure fully. When it's not waxed it will stay a bit tacky but you can wipe it with a bit of acetone to make the gel even tackier. I've seen spray adhesive show through on many parts before as well so I would try and avoid using it on the first layer of reinforcement. When hand laying it is generally a good idea to coat the mold with a layer of resin before adding in the first layer of reinforcement. Your part came out very well for a first pull in my opinion. The first parts are always the hardest. Your mold looks really nice and smooth so if you coat in mold you will get the exact same finish on your part assuming all goes well. Best of luck on these mirror covers! Also gold sharpie shows up really well on carbon parts.
Thanks for the video and info. I have tried a couple of projects and like automotive paint it seems like the preparation is most important.
Good teaching so I don't make mistakes, excellent!
Good job im gonna wait for your next videos..keep it up!best wishes from Italy
Can you do a new video creating a replacement part with the clips and tabs inside the new part? OR do you know how to make these ?
I feel better knowing I’m not the only one who saves all of their carbon fiber scrap pieces…
Thank you for sharing this.
Waiting for the first layer to become tacky may help a little, but isn’t always the correct answer if your bagging the part and yours looked pretty good! If the room is to cold (resin won’t flow easily) or if moisture contamination has happened when both laying up or spraying lacquer your get misting and pin holes. After preparing the naked carbon surface with wet and dry you’ll need to rub it down with acetone a few times and then give it a good dusting with U-POL Raptor Adhesion Promoter followed by lacquer. If this still doesn’t work because carbon can play funny games don’t worry, just wet and dry the lacquer again and add another heavy coat doting lacquer in any remaining holes, sand and then polish. In the past if it’s a large pin hole I’ve filled it with super glue and you’d never know. Good luck with future parts and I look forward to the video 👌🏻👍🏻
Lindy, I do a lot of composite model work and always paint in the mould. And yes, I use wax (TR-108) and PVA. In your case, you may find you get much better results if you try painting a clear coat into the mould before laying up the part. I use Automotive Acrylic Lacquer to good effect, but 2-pack will give better (and harder) results. I just don't have the equipment to spray 2-pack safely. The other suggestions about letting the first layer gel off a little are also very good - particularly with carbon - because the second layer will definitely draw resin away from the first. Hope this helps, Steve.
Thanks, Steve. I'll give the mold clear coating a try.
Thanks for a great video. I learned a lot of what to do and not. Very helpful!
Great, glad it was helpful.
Can I suggest a scribe tool instead of using a Sharpie for marking out trim lines. Gives a more precise line to work too and doesn't risk the original part getting damaged while using it as a template.
To get a smooth UV resistant surface, have you tried applying a layer of clear, epoxy-compatible polyester gel coat to your mold before adding your fabric? For this project, I would have recommended using a polyester resin instead of epoxy since it is just a cosmetic part. Then you could use less expensive resins and less expensive UV resistant polyester gel coats for your top coat.
Looking great. To get more strength you need to crisscross the layers. Easy to see the way fibers direction and next layer the opposite way. But for that cover I don't think it's necessary.
I know one person that use clay to make space for turn light.
1st rule of hand lay-up, wait until the first layer of resin cures and a bit tacky. Just to make sure the fiber doesn't get through and it is not exposed to the mold.
ridho arlega I agree, even with an infusion I like to spray on a nice thick clear coat and let it get tacky. No more pin holes. The only problem I have with it is I need to be careful not to ruin the weave when it sticks to places that I don’t want it to.
James Byrom dangerous to use the resin as a tac unless the part isn’t complex, have u tried a tac spray for temporary holding?
great Video, thanks for sharing!
Wow thx for the lesson I appreciate it, keep up the good work, everyone makes mistakes, all you had to do was wet sand an polish an it wouldve been beautiful the first time around
Great job ,I like it.
you call that messy, I dont see any mess, thank for the great vid.
Anything it touches gets sticky asf
Thank you so much for posting this, honestly I've learned more from this than from 10+ other tutorial videos on YT where they tell you what not to do but don't really show you why.. I love your attitude of trying an idea just to see what happens :)
Great video thanks for the info👍 learn from mistakes
hello lindy and everyone from the channel. First thanks for producing those videos sharing your learning curve. second, i´ve beeing there too. done all of this and had the same results. and I found a few ways of fixing all this problems you had. so lets begin:
using the same process you used, the breather grabs a lot of resin, and because of the carbon desing the filaments joint get really dry causing the pinhole issue.
lets supose you did everything you see here and had the same result, but you dont want to loose that part. to fix the pinhole in the part when clear coating,
do a very light coat, let it dry a lil, do a second powder coat, let it dry a litle, do a flow coat (thicker) than the pinholes will come. find a lil tothpick, spray some clear to it, and than pinch the holes with the drip you have on the stick. it will fill the area and self level to the part. gives some work but it works very fine.
How to avoid pinholes in the part:
1: degass the resin using a vacuum pum and a chamber (you can find tons of videos of the process on youtube, how to degass epoxy)
2: if you are doing on a budget, you dont have a pump: make a first layer of resin just like she did in the video, brush it or use your hands (where gloves this can give you cancer) and let it TACK (means you tuch the resin but no residue comes back on your finger) than aply the cloth REALLY GENTLY so it sticks to the tacky resin an take care so the resin dont come throght the cloth. if it happens, next time wait a lil bit more. now let all this cure a few more ours (dont forget that you need the chemical bond so dont take to long on this one or it will harden and the cloth will be the only bond. this can cause delaminating issues). now you have done the surface, time to lay more resin on the top of it all and more carbon. peelply, breather, bag it and there you go. now you have a part that has a very nice looking face, very light too.
one very important tip: make good flanges on your molds since day one because once you learn how to master the vacuum bag tecnic, and cure the part on full vacuum, its very easy to step up and start making infusion.all you need from there is a vacuum chamber that can recieve the extra resin.
Do you have a suggestion for flange material? This is really where I struggle. I have only attempted small parts with gradual curves. I believe bigger parts may be easier to "flange up" due to curve being more gradual (at least the parts I want to make). I have tried corrugated sign board, aluminum flashing (good, but not for small parts imo) and, lastly I tried rubber baseboard trim. The baseboard trim works amazing but I never got to actually making my part so not sure if anything in the rubber will cause a reaction in the final product.
Then the next part I struggle with is getting my vacuum bag to seal nicely, I think this is just a matter of getting enough experience.
I just placed a big order to make more parts and will be uploading once I receive them. I would appreciate if you could give me any advice! Unfortunately my order will take a bit due to covid shipping/supply delays.
@@barnbuiltbeaters hey how are you doing? i here i use cardboard, high gramature for straights and low gramature for curves all glued with hot glue, and to seal them i use demolding wax until its soaked and latter i´ve beeing using some vacuum bag film glued with the super77 spray glue, works very nice!
Is there a video on how to make the molds for the mirror caps ??
What is 2 layers of cloth covered with carbon to vacuum?
Use a silver sharpy so you can see you cut and if you want to pop it out of the mold easier do your method of popsicle stick to loosen edges, after loosen use compressed air by blowing into the gap between the part and mold. So just get a compressor and a hose with a air nossle with a rubber tip. That will fly right out of the mold.
I use at least 3 layers of resin, and also a blowtorch to get the bubbles out. Any less and you'll have imperfections like that, as it's too "dry" for carbon/resin overlays. There are also rollers that can aid you with laying the carbon fiber. Not bad overall though, my first attempts looked far worse.
A lazy method would be to simply paint the actual part with black primer, and then wrap the carbon fiber over it, then bond it with several layers of resin, and trim the excess with a dremel. You'll sacrifice the original part, but you won't have to worry about seeing significant imperfections.
if you want to repair the surface finish simply sand the part down and brush on more resin, you may have to sand it down again and brush on a second coat. continue adding resin layers and sanding until all the pin holes and imperfections have been filled in, then sand it down and add a final coat of lacquer.
Would you make a Forged Carbon process video?
Thank you for sharing the experience, even not the great one. In another channel I saw a way of applying carbon fiber - to soak the sheet with resin before it gets situated in the mold, would you consider trying similar approach?
I've experimented with something like that, sandwiching the fabric between two sheets of plastic and using a roller to distribute the resin and remove excess before placing the piece. It's a good option for fabrics that tend to get distorted easily or for cutting precise shapes like a prepreg.
Great job, I’m planning to do the same thing for my Charger. Do you have a video on how to make the mold. Thanks, Cb
Different project but this is the basic process used to make the mold th-cam.com/video/aoSyRCgXHSg/w-d-xo.html. For the mirror mold I used just woven glass since the chop strand doesn't conform well with epoxy not dissolving the binder.
Check out Mike Patey and Throttle Stop Garage for some good tips on working carbon fiber and mold making too. Lots to learn and some amazing work out there!
Original part had tabs all you did was mold the outside. How are u going to mount it on? Let me guess double stick tape
I Would love to see a video with resin infusion from you , thank you for your work
You need to at least cut the peel ply into the jiggle if your not going to cut the ply, after the first ply roll up some toes as a boot lace to pack/ramp out the joggle. This will help get pressure into the corner and help avoid bridging in the area
You're great and awesome continue all the support 👍👍👍😍
I want to do this with car mirror caps
This is a very good tutorial, it shows what could go wrong, and "what if" I do this or that, is it going to work? When you try you learn, and later you can positive tell what do and don't work. Much oblige for sharing! Cheers from Brazil.
I have honda accord 2010 model. Left mirror is in complete condition but right side mirror skull is totally brake in a accident. So I want to make right side mirror skull from fiber technique. hows i made skull of right side mirror (in reverse position ) please guide...
I wish I found your video before I made the same mistake, adding resin and putting it back in the mold.
How much vacuum do you apply 20% or full 29.hg when applying to your wet lay up project?
Excellent!!
Can you use heatgun to get bubbles out?i heard a syringe very small one and inject the pinholes
This was really cool vid like they say practice makes perfect and you gotta try different things for yourself to see how to get the best finish I really want to try doing this on and old car panel they try doing a carbon bonnet what's the harm in trying your vids gave me the courage to give it a go lol now on to your next video to watch
Hands on experience is the best. That and watching the Easy Composites pros actually do things properly :D
Right, been watching these sents 2 years ago, just got back into it, looked to buy sum today , thy were all out of carbon
can you make a carbon fiber case ?
Nice job 👍
After prepping the part for paint, the first coat should be extremely lite. This provides a chemical bond to help the next layer stick. Since this is non-catalyzed product, it needs to evaporate. The second coat can be a wet coat the is self leveling and will fill in voids and pin holes. Laying flat will also help.
Only a spray gun would allow the amount of fluid to increase as a can forces you to get closer and go slower. Both of these are wrong but small part and little else to do, causes most to hurry up too much, too fast and runs occur.
Eastwood sells a spray can for small jobs like this one, but has a seal on the bottom that once broken, mixes a catalyst into the paint. This is now a harder paint with a chemical action plus evaporation to provide your finish.
The spray is either a lacquer or enamel and may react with the catalyzed resin as the solvents may not be compatible. Just a suggestion.
Automotive ASE Master Tech since 1978 - Retired
What specific carbon fiber is this that you're using? Brand and or model?
What laminating resin did you use?
Did you use a vacuum bag?
Did you only use pva between the cf and the mold or did you use wax as well?
It's possible to add a ultrasound device to remove all the bubbles during the process?
I heard you can use clear gelcoat to get a mirror finish
sand and buff out on a fabric wheel? without seeing in person i can't help think that is salvageable. of course, i hide flaws with penzoil and stp stickers
Lots of resin, peel ply layer, cotton batting on top of peel ply and vacuum bag the whole thing...
I always vacuum bag, carbon is not something I get lazy with. Can always hydro dip it now. lol
Nice mold
Iv always been shown that the 1st coat was suppose to be much heavier? Like 3x’s the amount we saw?
nice working
I need to find a girl that makes carbon fiber parts for cars!!!!! 😍🤣. Great video, thanks for the info and I always enjoy fail videos because it helps me avoid problems. Keep up the good work
The ratio of resin to reinforcement determines the strength of the lamination. The weight of the part is secondary or a by product. The strength of the lamination is due to the reinforcement, the carbon fiber in this case. Too much resin or epoxy which is a form of plastic makes the part brittle. Of course, too little resin and the lamination will have dry spots which can delaminate.
Try using a lower vacuum setting to reduce the pinholes..
Excellent
How often do you change your gloves
there is UV resistant epoxy resin out there, you need to apply 3 coats of normal resin every 2 hours, after apply final the UV coat on outside. Then sand it, polish and your done.
How did you vacuum it or did you vacuum it how come you did not show us
What Resin is the best?
can U make the body of a mini car?
The 2K resin reacted and didnt bond to the Aerosol 1k Enamel paint, which would of been not cured by the time you added the resin. Tt takes days for enamel and acrylic to really cure and not react. All you had to do was, spray it with 2k clear and blow some air on the pin holes to get the clear in.
Also it melts cuz it's not post cured. Try that and then try trimming it
Please use the dust mask when you put the carbon in the mold and cut the carbon with the scissor. Because a lot of carbon particle fly in the air. And thats not healthy. If you want to see them: switch off the lights and switch on a strong lead headlight or a laser and you will see the flying particles in the air. Its mostly important when you makeing larger products or a negative tool with lots of fiberglass.
Nice work and good video!
Hi Lindy, thanks for share; could the epoxy layer be sanded with 500, 1000 to 6000 sandpaper and then polished as if it were paint?
It would need a UV protective finish anyways if it's going outside, so not much point. But epoxy can certainly be polished.
@@LindyDesignLab thanks for your answer, what did you finally? Start from the beginning?
@@leonelgarcia7327 I've been too busy with other projects, but yes, I'll most likely need to start over.
Great narration. Any solutions to the pinhole problem?
Not yet, need to test some possible solutions in future.
Well done although use a gel coat on the mould prior to laying the fabric
I'm curious. Will automotive clear coat as the final step brings out the shine as well as protecting the product from elements?
Yes, that's what I've seen other companies do.
Well done you, really enjoyed watching. Have subscribed 👍
Glad you're enjoying the channel.
Nice good job 👍🙏
У вас есть видео, с работой прессованным карбоном...???
why not use a sponge roller of plastic so it wont suck in the resin and u can put pressure on it
You could just sand the whole thing and do a few more coats. Then buff it with polish
Hi. Next time once the new part is out get it under 400 grit sand paper and then work your way to 600 grit and then wipe is clean it and see for any imperfections. After that dust coat a layer of lacquer from a spray tin and leave for exactly 15 min. Have tea. Then layer up more and watch the part shine. After drying there will be small bits in paint. Get 1000 wet flat on the lacquer and take the shine off completely. After that use g3 polish compound and buff to perfection. How ever all this would be easy if you can clamp the part into a vice by attaching a rod inside the part and gluing it somehow where you can release it after. Like a temporary handle
After to do the cover, how do you fix it to the mirror car? The original cover have some plastic tabs which this carbon fiber cover hasn't. Thank you
To stand alone it would need tabs made and epoxied in place using some sort of jig to get the right placement.
excellent video keep on sharing