Even average Diy audio enthusiasts know how to choose a complimentary woofer and tweeter for a two way speaker.Why do so many professional speaker manufacturers find it so difficult? Kudos to you for orchestrating a salvage .
If putting a $350 crossover, you need to mark up at least 5 time on the crossover itself. Add a dollar in cost doesn't mean increase selling price a dollar.
@@kongwee1978 Exactly .That's why they need to make good driver selections. Good driver choices don't mean more expensive units. A $10,000 crossover couldn't fully fix this speaker .
Put a little black tack on the back side of that gold wave guide as well to dampen that gold bell. If that frame is stamped steel, window caulk it. Need to try and stop all ringing physically and electronically. Only so much can one do for this Coaxial unit.
379$ for crossover parts and 2 sets of connectors and a couple feet of sound deadening?! That was a good reminder as to why I diy all of my audio equipment
So glad I held off before getting this speaker. Been looking for a budget 8in. bookshelf speaker for awhile now. Thought that I couldnt go wrong with 8in woofer and a horn design tweeter in a coaxal form at the given price point. Glad I didnt waste my money. Hopefully they will redesign and fix their issues. Really does look nice. Definitely has potential to be a winner. Once they are done with it.
Seems like a good candidate for attaching a nice little full range speaker to the top of that cabinet and crossing over at a few hundred Hz. And not using the tweeter
that´s what i do with older speakers that i own for 40 years or more as an example someone ofered me some pioneer speakers from early 90´s , i didn´t like nothing in the sound and high frequencies were really bad but, the bass was very good ,so i put on top some technics sb-f3 from 79 and i tried several speakers not going to say the model but that combination was very good ,this technics speakers work better with 70´s amplifiers and some that aren´t that diferent from the ones in the 70´s but very weak and those that are suposed to be good amplifiers and then i listen or read people saying this speakers have no bass but a very clean sound of high´s and mid freq.´s ,but no bass isn´t a speaker problem it´s the so good amps they are selling, the logic behind this is the less harmonic distortion ,the less everything the better is the amplifier , so logical if i built a box with a knob saying volume ,people would stare and say ,incredible no everything, but when conected nothing and when opening the service manual i would writte the solution to every problem," buy another amplifier and put it insise the box and you´ll notice that everything starts to work " that´s the logic behind most of new amplifiers , recentelly a yamaha amplifier was released and in the front two big power meters with needles (this would even interest greeks and trojans) the hipsters because of the needles the audiophiles because of having the best results on sound when tested for all the things refered on this video that is very well done and shows what i´m trying to say, but i have to say that i also tested it the last week and as a whole isn´t what people call integrated amplifier and in my opinion it´s the worse ever built yamaha , since ever but the graphics shows diferent and i would acepted if it was called otherthing because indeed it´s a integrated amplifier but what comes with an integrated amplifier doesn´t come at all with this thing, if i only listen to records and cds it´s perfect but still the worse amplifier from yamha ,to end i can add that i bought some new speakers and they look good everybody talks good about them but it didn´t last 30 minuts before i conected the cheapest pioneers and the not known sb-f3 from technics that in the 90´s the tweeters cost 300€ , and they are bad, or are the amplifiers bad? because the speakers even can put down some 4ohms speakers that are known to be so good ,regards
Thanks I wish I had your technical skills - super impressive thanks I have 15” sound artist speakers wondering would you please design a better cross over for that model please
Some are saying :Chinese speakers: if you look inside your very expensive speakers and amps you'll see made in china or assembled in china, components are Chinese.
Sound Artist just received some free consulting from Danny on what needs to be addressed for v2 of their SC8B. Can't wait for the GR Research Co-axial speaker kits. Hope there is an 8" and 6" option.
Can you do some tutorial ? I wonder how i can build a crossover for a 3 way speaker. its so hard to get the setup right for crossing at 200 hz woofer to midrange. I have to shoot the bass nearfield but how can i combine the nearfield with a time windowed mid tweeter messurement ? Nice video like always learned a lot from you
Danny really love your videos. Very thorough and informative. Would you ever consider giving your thoughts on the sound of the speakers from a qualitative perspective? You do so much work doing the technical analysis and tear downs. I’m always wondering what your thoughts are actually enjoying listening to your work and creation.
8:40 maybe some damping putty on a back of a horn will help ) pretty sure that this ringing comes not from the drivers but the horn itself which acts like a bell.
Danny i know you’re dying to have more stuff to do but it would be awesome for you to demo the before and after with a little bit of music , I think it would make your videos that much more interesting. thanks sharing.
Would you measure and review a JTR 212HTR? Or any front stage tower or monitor with the reference compression driver for that matter. I would greatly appreciate it I would really like to know your point of view on their performance.
Quick question on paper cones. I'm having an issue with an old pair of drivers that are deteriorating. The owner doesn't want to upgrade. Are there any methods of stopping it without changing the sound?.
Makes me wonder what the production percentage cost was for the drivers vs the cabinet. I’m thinking they got a bargain on the drivers and told their designer: “just make it work and we’ll sell it on the appearance.”
How does a ringing frequency increase with time in the spectral decay plot? I just can't visualise how that happens (eg. the low frequency lobe at 8:17)
i have these speakers, im running a tube amp, they sound pretty good for the money, very deep good base and vocals are very good, but sometimes they do seem a bit bright. i might put some more dampening in them. I tried them with a very expensive solid state amp and they were average but they seem to like tube amps ?.
The Willsenton R300 300B amplifier which is very smooth but detailed (I love this amplifier!) might be a good match with these somewhat bright speakers.
Im interested in purchasing a pair of Buchardt S300 speakers (used). The reviews are quite positive but would love to hear your analysis !. Dont know if you ever came accross this brand from Sweeden ? Let me know, Thanks, Rich, N.Y.
i hope all speaker manufacturers start to publish all their measurements. or at least some companies start to publish, then it will have a knock-on effect to the rest of the companies. or they can just go out of business because if they are not reporting, the reason is because they make speakers that don’t measure well
Thanks, Danny. I wonder if some damping material on the back of the wave guide might both reduce reflections between it and the woofer and and also minimize secondary emissions from vibrations from the poorly terminated wave guide itself. Also, is there a possibility of resonances from the port coming through the cone? The frame of the woofer also sounded rather tinny. Would putting well-shaped damping material on it help? Well done my friend!
I tried sticking some small pieces of felt on the back of the horn to no avail. I also added plenty of insulation to the inside of the box. The port issue was well below the range I was measuring with the mic. The woofer frame could for sure use some damping strips though.
@@dannyrichie9743 Thanks, Danny. I'm honored by the reply from from someone of your caliber! As per the back of the horn, I was thinking of something with both mass and absorbency at audio frequencies. Perhaps something on the order of always flexible silicone, The bitumen that that impregnated the original LS3/5/A's, etc. This amateur designer appreciates you, my friend!
I just sold a pair of these after importing them from China to the UK, they have no brightness in them at all, high hats and cymbals are non existent, that dip around 10k is a killer.
How do you know that ringing is from the driver? Could easily be from the cabinet by the knock sound of it. Do you test with an accelerometer too? Maybe try to put felt on the inside edges of the grill if you use the grill for protection. It will help the imaging.
@@tweakradje Oh, no. I can see a time delayed reflection. It will look different in the spectral decay. It will have a clean response and drop that typically goes down 20db or so then picks back up out of nowhere when the internal reflection comes through. So I can tell the difference in the measurement.
It is as good as it is going to get and I wonder if this project almost did not make it because of the unfix-able ringing. I also wonder why these speakers get such good review from many TH-camrs. My conclusion is that if you don't own this speaker, you better not buy it regardless of the fact that Danny did a great job almost fixing the sloppy engineering that went in to this product.
Actually they don't get good reviews, IMHO. Reviewers have a lot of ifs and buts about these speakers and that is something that tells me to avoid a product.
Audiophiles seem to find a way to like certain speakers that have rubbish measurements. I used to want to shy away from peaky speakers, still do. There can be something alluring, but gets old after a while
There have also been other components that get good reviews and yet they actually are not that good. I starting to not trust some reviewers. Example is an amp that had piss poor design and is way down on power and measures like shit. Yet it gets great reviews.
@@crimsonghost6454 many people only go by subjectivity, because they trust that what they "hear" is the same every time and never affected by psychological factors. They probably also don't like that some external source can say there is no difference when they "heard something". I've "heard" my speakers sound different even though I changed nothing. It depends on your mood, what you are, whether you're tired or in the emotional state of mind for that music etc.
I have measured and tested hundreds of them and designed a few as well. We are even about to have the new LGK 2.0's in stock next week. Check them out: www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=177863.0
@@dannyrichie9743 Those look great. I might just have to make a pair of those. For some reason, I was under the impression that full range drivers did not need a crossover. Maybe some do and some don't?
Always amazes me how these supposed professional companies just ignore simple physics that we have known for decades. Things we non professional home builders know not to do.
So we're looking at a big 8db swing from 7KHz to 9.5KHz. And his crossover work reveals another "ach mein Gott" moment - the phase relationship between the two drivers is rapidly shifting in opposite directions right around the crossover point so that if you get them in phase at 2KHz, they will be completely out of phase by 1.5 and 3K. Nice work, you sure did your best. But I'm afraid it's all lipstick on a pig.
A 2 KHz resonance from both drivers takes it completely out of consideration. That's right where the ear and brain are the most sensitive and Danny's notch filter can only reduce it. What speakers are these TH-cam reviewers comparing them to? Not hearing that massive resonance makes me question their judgment.
please do a tear down/components evaluation of the Elac Uni-Fi 2.0’s. i’m EXTREMELY interested in what your thoughts on their crossover would be. *EDIT: i would gladly send you my pair for evaluation!
As are 99 percent of speakers on today's market or even back then. Every single speaker I worked on or have seen even in the high price segment. All have cheese parts or cost cutting things going on. You'll never evade that
![กินอาหาร ถูก vs แพง!! จานละ 500,000 vs จานละ 50!! [Ver. 2024]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/FF_HppKg4vs/mqdefault.jpg)
Looks like something that would best be reborn as a clock.
Even average Diy audio enthusiasts know how to choose a complimentary woofer and tweeter for a two way speaker.Why do so many professional speaker manufacturers find it so difficult? Kudos to you for orchestrating a salvage .
If putting a $350 crossover, you need to mark up at least 5 time on the crossover itself. Add a dollar in cost doesn't mean increase selling price a dollar.
@@kongwee1978 Exactly .That's why they need to make good driver selections. Good driver choices don't mean more expensive units. A $10,000 crossover couldn't fully fix this speaker .
Put a little black tack on the back side of that gold wave guide as well to dampen that gold bell. If that frame is stamped steel, window caulk it. Need to try and stop all ringing physically and electronically. Only so much can one do for this Coaxial unit.
379$ for crossover parts and 2 sets of connectors and a couple feet of sound deadening?! That was a good reminder as to why I diy all of my audio equipment
Thanks for all the thoughtfulness you bring to every video. Happy holidays.
That's one of the most hollow sounding enclosures I've ever heard. Wow
Agreed. The 'Tick' is a lovely sound. The 'Tock' is not.
So glad I held off before getting this speaker. Been looking for a budget 8in. bookshelf speaker for awhile now. Thought that I couldnt go wrong with 8in woofer and a horn design tweeter in a coaxal form at the given price point. Glad I didnt waste my money. Hopefully they will redesign and fix their issues. Really does look nice. Definitely has potential to be a winner. Once they are done with it.
Seems like a good candidate for attaching a nice little full range speaker to the top of that cabinet and crossing over at a few hundred Hz. And not using the tweeter
that´s what i do with older speakers that i own for 40 years or more as an example someone ofered me some pioneer speakers from early 90´s , i didn´t like nothing in the sound and high frequencies were really bad but, the bass was very good ,so i put on top some technics sb-f3 from 79 and i tried several speakers not going to say the model but that combination was very good ,this technics speakers work better with 70´s amplifiers and some that aren´t that diferent from the ones in the 70´s but very weak and those that are suposed to be good amplifiers and then i listen or read people saying this speakers have no bass but a very clean sound of high´s and mid freq.´s ,but no bass isn´t a speaker problem it´s the so good amps they are selling, the logic behind this is the less harmonic distortion ,the less everything the better is the amplifier , so logical if i built a box with a knob saying volume ,people would stare and say ,incredible no everything, but when conected nothing and when opening the service manual i would writte the solution to every problem," buy another amplifier and put it insise the box and you´ll notice that everything starts to work " that´s the logic behind most of new amplifiers , recentelly a yamaha amplifier was released and in the front two big power meters with needles (this would even interest greeks and trojans) the hipsters because of the needles the audiophiles because of having the best results on sound when tested for all the things refered on this video that is very well done and shows what i´m trying to say, but i have to say that i also tested it the last week and as a whole isn´t what people call integrated amplifier and in my opinion it´s the worse ever built yamaha , since ever but the graphics shows diferent and i would acepted if it was called otherthing because indeed it´s a integrated amplifier but what comes with an integrated amplifier doesn´t come at all with this thing, if i only listen to records and cds it´s perfect but still the worse amplifier from yamha ,to end i can add that i bought some new speakers and they look good everybody talks good about them but it didn´t last 30 minuts before i conected the cheapest pioneers and the not known sb-f3 from technics that in the 90´s the tweeters cost 300€ , and they are bad, or are the amplifiers bad? because the speakers even can put down some 4ohms speakers that are known to be so good ,regards
It reminds me of the Goodman's Axiom loudspeaker which had a similar concentric tweeter arrangement.
Looks so much like the M-07 Orsefon Prince
Thank you for a very good video. These are popular speakers - I too wish a bit more thought went into them
Good to see you Danny.
thank you!>.
Grandkids running all over I understand, but you loved every bit of it.
I need that Tshirt !!!
I love that t-shirt
Thanks I wish I had your technical skills - super impressive thanks
I have 15” sound artist speakers wondering would you please design a better cross over for that model please
Wow, you're a real audio expert.
Some are saying :Chinese speakers: if you look inside your very expensive speakers and amps you'll see made in china or assembled in china, components are Chinese.
Can't wait for you to get your hands on some Heco Aurora 700 Speakers and see what you can do with those
Sound Artist just received some free consulting from Danny on what needs to be addressed for v2 of their SC8B. Can't wait for the GR Research Co-axial speaker kits. Hope there is an 8" and 6" option.
And Chinese makers are actually quite good at listening to feedback from reviews and users and updating their designs.
🤷♂️
I am wondering if the tweeter ringing is in part due to the metal horn. Would damping the horn itself help with the ringing?
This is why my Pedest'ale 's sound so good.
Add a layer of glue or similar to the bass-mid cone behind the wave guide and 3D print a new wave guide?
Спасибо, посмотрел с удовольствием!
Can you do some tutorial ? I wonder how i can build a crossover for a 3 way speaker. its so hard to get the setup right for crossing at 200 hz woofer to midrange. I have to shoot the bass nearfield but how can i combine the nearfield with a time windowed mid tweeter messurement ? Nice video like always learned a lot from you
I like a man who talks to a speaker box
Danny really love your videos. Very thorough and informative. Would you ever consider giving your thoughts on the sound of the speakers from a qualitative perspective? You do so much work doing the technical analysis and tear downs. I’m always wondering what your thoughts are actually enjoying listening to your work and creation.
I don't think Danny listens to speakers LOL. He builds them.
8:40 maybe some damping putty on a back of a horn will help ) pretty sure that this ringing comes not from the drivers but the horn itself which acts like a bell.
Danny i know you’re dying to have more stuff to do but it would be awesome for you to demo the before and after with a little bit of music , I think it would make your videos that much more interesting.
thanks sharing.
MINIONS RULE!... Cool Tee.
Would you measure and review a JTR 212HTR? Or any front stage tower or monitor with the reference compression driver for that matter. I would greatly appreciate it I would really like to know your point of view on their performance.
I wanted to get these but glad I didn't 😳
That shirts awesome Danny! Where’d you get it??
5 Below store.
Is there any affordable speaker that you like, that you believe does not need modifications?
Ol boy has forgot more than I'll ever learn....amazing analysis and R&D here.
My Pedest'ale Tower speakers are sounding great.
Quick question on paper cones. I'm having an issue with an old pair of drivers that are deteriorating. The owner doesn't want to upgrade. Are there any methods of stopping it without changing the sound?.
Makes me wonder what the production percentage cost was for the drivers vs the cabinet. I’m thinking they got a bargain on the drivers and told their designer: “just make it work and we’ll sell it on the appearance.”
How does a ringing frequency increase with time in the spectral decay plot? I just can't visualise how that happens (eg. the low frequency lobe at 8:17)
i have these speakers, im running a tube amp, they sound pretty good for the money, very deep good base and vocals are very good, but sometimes they do seem a bit bright. i might put some more dampening in them.
I tried them with a very expensive solid state amp and they were average but they seem to like tube amps ?.
The Willsenton R300 300B amplifier which is very smooth but detailed (I love this amplifier!) might be a good match with these somewhat bright speakers.
Hi do you have an upgrade for the soundcraft 15?
Now every time I think about buying a speaker i check if dany has made a video on it 😂.
Hooray for chifi!
If it sounds good to your ear that is what matters!Period!
Have you tired the Opera Consonance Solo speakers. The people that have heard them love them but they aren't easy to find in the US.
No one has sent one of those in yet.
Im interested in purchasing a pair of Buchardt S300 speakers (used). The reviews are quite positive but would love to hear your analysis !. Dont know if you ever came accross this brand from Sweeden ?
Let me know, Thanks,
Rich, N.Y.
Retail price notwithstanding was it worth it to spend $379.90 on Chinese speakers... even for the pair or was that each?
Prices from me are always per pair, and a lot of people might find it to be a fun DIY project with a very enjoyable result.
👍👍😎✌️
i hope all speaker manufacturers start to publish all their measurements. or at least some companies start to publish, then it will have a knock-on effect to the rest of the companies. or they can just go out of business because if they are not reporting, the reason is because they make speakers that don’t measure well
🙋👍❤️
Thanks, Danny. I wonder if some damping material on the back of the wave guide might both reduce reflections between it and the woofer and and also minimize secondary emissions from vibrations from the poorly terminated wave guide itself. Also, is there a possibility of resonances from the port coming through the cone? The frame of the woofer also sounded rather tinny. Would putting well-shaped damping material on it help? Well done my friend!
I had exactly the same analysis. A little piece of no res. on the back of the horn if you can remove it...
I tried sticking some small pieces of felt on the back of the horn to no avail. I also added plenty of insulation to the inside of the box. The port issue was well below the range I was measuring with the mic. The woofer frame could for sure use some damping strips though.
Just a Chinese knockoff of the Fyne Audio F700. I’m sure they do it better
@@dannyrichie9743 Thanks, Danny. I'm honored by the reply from from someone of your caliber! As per the back of the horn, I was thinking of something with both mass and absorbency at audio frequencies. Perhaps something on the order of always flexible silicone, The bitumen that that impregnated the original LS3/5/A's, etc. This amateur designer appreciates you, my friend!
@@brucermarino The real problem with the horn was throat cancellation. So the shape of it would need to be changed.
I just sold a pair of these after importing them from China to the UK, they have no brightness in them at all, high hats and cymbals are non existent, that dip around 10k is a killer.
I think I'll pass on the whole thing and just go for the Sony CS upgrade for 1/3 the price. That funky brass funnel innit worth it. Lol
At this point wouldn't it be nicer to get a DIY speaker kit? I don't question the performance of the Sony, but they look like cheap boxes LOL.
@@user-xg6zz8qs3q i had a nasty hand injury when I typed this, in most circumstances you're right. Lol
Did anybody call these Baby Westminsters?
SWEET... love this one
and the sell for close to 1K after tax. And has 5 star rating at amazon. lol
Plus raving reviews from self proclaimed audiophile TH-camrs...
@@hugobloemers4425 lol. You know they get paid .
Your price is so fair I wonder if you even make any profits from these projects.
Not much, but it gains us happy customers that become repeat customers.
How do you know that ringing is from the driver? Could easily be from the cabinet by the knock sound of it. Do you test with an accelerometer too? Maybe try to put felt on the inside edges of the grill if you use the grill for protection. It will help the imaging.
If it is from the cabinet then there is a time delay from the woofers response to the secondary ring. In this case, it is the woofer.
@@dannyrichie9743 Time delay's don't show in your graphs because you measure Time Gated?
@@tweakradje Oh, no. I can see a time delayed reflection. It will look different in the spectral decay. It will have a clean response and drop that typically goes down 20db or so then picks back up out of nowhere when the internal reflection comes through. So I can tell the difference in the measurement.
Metal rings ,Wood doesn't ring it resonates.....
It is as good as it is going to get and I wonder if this project almost did not make it because of the unfix-able ringing.
I also wonder why these speakers get such good review from many TH-camrs. My conclusion is that if you don't own this speaker, you better not buy it regardless of the fact that Danny did a great job almost fixing the sloppy engineering that went in to this product.
Actually they don't get good reviews, IMHO. Reviewers have a lot of ifs and buts about these speakers and that is something that tells me to avoid a product.
Agree!!!! "I also wonder why these speakers get such good review from many TH-camrs."
Audiophiles seem to find a way to like certain speakers that have rubbish measurements.
I used to want to shy away from peaky speakers, still do. There can be something alluring, but gets old after a while
There have also been other components that get good reviews and yet they actually are not that good. I starting to not trust some reviewers. Example is an amp that had piss poor design and is way down on power and measures like shit. Yet it gets great reviews.
@@crimsonghost6454 many people only go by subjectivity, because they trust that what they "hear" is the same every time and never affected by psychological factors. They probably also don't like that some external source can say there is no difference when they "heard something".
I've "heard" my speakers sound different even though I changed nothing. It depends on your mood, what you are, whether you're tired or in the emotional state of mind for that music etc.
Hey Danny. Have you ever dabbled with full range drivers? On the surface they seem like they would be a nice solution, with some limitations. Cheers!
I have measured and tested hundreds of them and designed a few as well. We are even about to have the new LGK 2.0's in stock next week. Check them out: www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=177863.0
@@dannyrichie9743 Those look great. I might just have to make a pair of those. For some reason, I was under the impression that full range drivers did not need a crossover. Maybe some do and some don't?
@@jordesign I have not seen a full range driver yet that didn't need some type of compensation filter.
The cabinet looks like 70's fake wood paneling.
What about the sound ? A lot of people say they sound amazing....at the end I think it is the most important thing
Always amazes me how these supposed professional companies just ignore simple physics that we have known for decades. Things we non professional home builders know not to do.
So what did you build ...
That cabinet should be braced.
So we're looking at a big 8db swing from 7KHz to 9.5KHz. And his crossover work reveals another "ach mein Gott" moment - the phase relationship between the two drivers is rapidly shifting in opposite directions right around the crossover point so that if you get them in phase at 2KHz, they will be completely out of phase by 1.5 and 3K. Nice work, you sure did your best. But I'm afraid it's all lipstick on a pig.
A 2 KHz resonance from both drivers takes it completely out of consideration. That's right where the ear and brain are the most sensitive and Danny's notch filter can only reduce it. What speakers are these TH-cam reviewers comparing them to? Not hearing that massive resonance makes me question their judgment.
Most youtube reviewers are full of shit and trying to influence you.
I saw a review of these , got interested..at 899 or so Amazon sells them.
Watched this video , hard pass for me.
Looks like a Zu.
Love your videos, but the wobbly ass table has got to go! It drives me nuts and I believe it is also causing your camera to refocus.
please do a tear down/components evaluation of the Elac Uni-Fi 2.0’s. i’m EXTREMELY interested in what your thoughts on their crossover would be.
*EDIT: i would gladly send you my pair for evaluation!
also, super interest in LIL 15 full range. price is right.
Say no to Cheese!
It’s very cheaply made speaker that should worth a couple hundreds with nice looking outside . Very over priced for what it offers.
As are 99 percent of speakers on today's market or even back then. Every single speaker I worked on or have seen even in the high price segment.
All have cheese parts or cost cutting things going on. You'll never evade that
Full-Range 8" Speaker Pioneer Type B20FU20-51FW cheap diy
Chi Fi junk.
This is not a $10000 speaker And besides no one wants a flat frequency response it sounds boring
An accurate response doesn't make a speaker sound boring. The best sounding speakers in the world have an accurate response.
Back to the beginning those are $10000 speaker