YAMAHA CK vs STUDIOLOGIC NUMA X PIANO - Which has BEST PIANOS?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 พ.ค. 2023
- Back to back sound shootout demo of the acoustic pianos (grand, upright) and electric pianos (Rhodes, Wurli) on the YAMAHA CK SERIES (CK61 CK88) and the STUDIOLOGIC NUMA X PIANO 73/88 GT.
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#studiologic #yamahasynths #piano - เพลง
I liked the CK for most of the Acoustic Pianos and EP's sounds... The Numa have good sounds, but CK sounded better to my ears.
Now, i liked the design of Numa pretty much ❤
Studiologic sounds less artificial as piano. More dense tone with a similarity of sympathetic resonance.
Thanks for another useful video Woody.
The saloon patch on the Numa compact sounds like a good rag time piano
When I can compare live (me playing), I always prefer model based over sampling. There is something more human in dynamics and depth.
One thing for me is sure: the Numa Piano is wonderful in its best version. GT with new keybed, it's marvellous. Maybe the best keybed for digital piano ever built. I tested recently in my favourite shop.
as somone else has said, whilst sampled pianos perhaps sound more realistic in a mix, modelled pianos are more satisfying and rewarding to actually play.
Ps. The numa is the better sounding pianos imho
Though Yamaha's pianos are ALWAYS great both in studio and live...the Studiologic sounds better to my ears...physical modelling has finest sound details and better resonance...both acoustic and electric modeling technology are mixed with samples, and wave shapes giving that very full and real effect...plus...if you get the Numa GT you can have the TP/400 WOOD Graded Hammer Action...
Wow, the Ep on numa are so freaking good and authentic 🎧mechanical noises takes it to another level.
Imo only upright sound on the Yamaha is better than numa
I own a CK61 so confirmation bias should lead me down that path, but I think the Numa smashed it in every example. Nice playing chops, btw.
I wouldn’t say smashed it in every department - perhaps to your ears, perhaps to the style of music being played, and so perhaps you bought the wrong device? To my untrained ears I would be happy with either. In some cases I thought the CK sounded better, and in some cases the Numa sounded better, but didn’t smash anything. As a whole instrument, the CK gets my vote for a number of reasons far behind just sound though.
@@X22GJP I think you made a great point
Nice review Woody (defo Numa X as I have the flagship GT 😁👍🎹💥). Ps. gain drops out on audio mid way through, if you are able to UL again re-mastered? 🍻🙌
someone else said this on kc forum, maybe it was you? I don't hear any dropouts? anyone else?
Studiologic ❤❤
Excuse, could you please be so kind to give more information about setting you used for CK 88 ? The Keyboard touch is Normal, Hard or Soft ? Also, did you change the Cut Off and Resonance ? If so which value ? Did you use the compressor ? If so, which value ? Sorry for all these questions but I bought the CK 88 and I find the sound very closed, it seems doesn't exit and I am not able to play , to express I mean, when your sound is so good. Thank you.
Really useful video thanks, but what about the download pianos for the Numa? Be great if they were included, some users report that they are way ahead of the factory sounds - personally, all I want is one really nice piano sound and I'm very interested in the Steinway B tape recorded sample.
oh wow, i had no idea about extra sounds. thanks for the heads-up, I will investigate and do a demo if that is the case.
@@WoodyPianoShack brilliant, look forward to it!
The Numa is surprisingly good... 🙂
yes, i agree on that, exceeding my expectations, it's even more remarkable when you play it solo yourself.
Tough call, but great playing Woody! In some cases and songs I thought the CK sounded better, and in others the Numa suited it with more apparent resonance at times. Definitely not enough to swing the decision, which for me lies with the CK for its versatility as a MIDI controller and audio interface.
Studiologic has those features in spades, though, and I'd argue the interface makes it easier. I only briefly had the CK so I can't remember, but if it's like the CP, you had to dig into a bunch of menus for those.
right on, this was of course just a back to back of the pianos, I have a more overview feature comparison to come.
It's always difficult to judge sound from a TH-cam video, when their compression is in play. Better to hear the sound straight from the keyboard itself.
But that aside, I thought the Numa X sounded very nice, very warm. But my guess (and I might be wrong) is that the sound of the CK sits better in a mix. If you could make a video on that, that would be awesome!
i tend to agree with you gert, the numa is certainly more "lively" when playing solo, but i'm sure both would do ok in a mix. i'm not sure about "yt compression" the audio after upload sounds the same to me as what I captured in my DAW. perhaps this is an old myth...?
@@WoodyPianoShack iirc TH-cam used to compress the audio more as the lower the video quality chosen was. They now claim they compress the audio and video separately and it should not affect it , however I don't know if anyone's actually tested that claim to see if that's true for every video or if it depends on connection, device , first party or 3rd party app etc
i would say physical modelling is the way forward , both sound fab!...,however i would buy the CK over the Numa
Is Roland doing the physical modelling sounds in their hardware?
I am an organ guy through and through. I wonder though if the action isnallroght on yamaha
Jesus 1500.euros for an entry level action? That is asking a lot
The Numa acoustics sounded more "musically pleasant" to my taste, generally a warmer more lower and mid eq bias than the perhaps too edgy and bright Yamaha. Not
necessarily better or more realistic, but more pleasing to my instrumental liking. The Numa wasnt quite as detailed in recreating all the variety of timbral nuances in
Rhodes sound; the CK samples had a realism edge there, but I recognized a little group of Rhodes sample notes in upper mid keyboard that had an extra tine chime way above
the other notes - exact same location as on my YC61 with same phenomenon, the CK's samples share the same names and sounds as YC (including numerous timbral and
volume variances in certain notes that stand out in single note soloing.) Great playing, as usual - but like most other keyboard YT demoers, I notice an unfortunate lack of
playing any appreciable amount in the top 2 octaves, you play mostly bass and mid, where digital keyboards are at their best. I'd like to hear, on all your keyboard and vst demos,
a lot more time focusing in on the top 2 octaves, which to this day is the weak point of many digital hardware and software real instrument recreations. For example, I've heard demos of the
pretty awesome sounding Viscount 70's Keys Rhodes/acoustic keyboard, where they played just for a quick few seconds in the top octave, and it sounded kind of thin and
possibly losing some fidelity to the original Rhodes top octaves sound. You should obtain a real Rhodes and put all these keyboards against that, giving some time and comment on the top 2 octaves.
thanks for your thoughtful comment and analysis! also the feedback to play more in the upper octaves. i rarely venture there myself, as I'm more of a comping kind of guy, but I'll make a mental note! and i would love to borrow a real rhodes for a while! vintage one came up locally for sale, but with asking price of $4000, I think that's a lot for an ancient relic!
They both sound good to me. I think some songs would sound slightly better on the Yamaha and some would on the Studiologic. They're different sounding, that's for sure, but I am not sure I would rate one higher than the other based on this demo. Can I have them both please?
yeah, I think that sums it up very nicely!
All things being equal, I think the keybed on the Studiologic puts it on top.
The "Vintage Grand" is by far the best piano on the Numa because it uses extra samples for note on/off that none of the other Numa pianos have, yet you chose not to use it anywhere in this video. Invalidates the acoustic portion of the comparison for me, but sincere thanks Woody for all the great videos you constantly put out for us!
The Numa built in 4 channel mixer for a mic and 2nd stereo keyboard, (or a bass/guitar) plus the better hammer action makes it a slightly better value. On the other hand, Yamaha sampled electric pianos can't be beat for authentic sound compared to the artificial sounding fully modelled Numa, however, the Yamaha CFX and Upright pianos sound a little too "perfect" for my tastes. YMMV. 🤔
Overall, can't go wrong with either model. 😉
thanks for the input and feedback! hard to know which is "best", all the pianos seem to have on/off samples to my ears, or some simulation! ;) i don't remember my thought process, except probably just choosing the same type of piano on both for a meaningful comparison. thanks again!
Acoustic pianos on the Numa are not modelled, they're sampled and combined with modeled resonances. OTOH electric pianos are fully modelled. I wish there were more parameters to edit within the acoustic pianos, there're 4 only whereas Kawai offers 20, still a good job SL, I had it to test and liked the action a lot, used it as a MIDI controller mostly.
I'm afraid to say that (in this comparison) I preferred the Yamaha's sounds in nearly all cases. I kind of wanted the SL Numa to beat the Yamaha. Why? Because of the cheap GHS action in the Yamaha. I was already concerned about the Numa 73&88 models not having graded actions, but the sounds aren't very impressive either. Maybe I'd like them better if I tried them, but I doubt I'll get the chance.
@@Zoco101 try the Numa X GT, it's got top tier action TP400W, comparable to the PHA50 and even to the GF, won't regret it
thanks for pointing that out, you're correct acoustics are combo of sampling and modelling.
the only piano the superior piano on the CK was that gorgeous U1! WOW. The Numa is the hands down winner.
Well,I think that NUMA's piano is better...🙄🤔 Maybe I'm wrong...😁
there's no right or wrong here, it's all in the ears of the beholder!
As played, I thought the Numa won every time--but either one would sound GREAT in a mix, and the CK is more versatile (as I understand it).
I'd say they're about equal in versatility, with Studiologic having the edge. CK is a little more immediate in its interface with regards to sound design, though.
i'd agree with that, especially when you start adjusting the parameters of the numa physical models.
No, layering Is by fare easier and with more sounds in Studiologic..
About the sounds, I lked Numa X better. But Yamaha's interface and pannel look more suitable and user friendly to me. Great comparison, as always! Cheers. :D
The Numa control panel with the color coding LEDs is the most intuitive I've used, and the Fatar keybed feels great
Kinda hard to tell too much with mostly ragtime, but in regards to acoustic pianos, they sound completely different. Neither is bad.
The SL seems to have way more depth and resonance. Need to hear more though, with different styles.
The CK is pretty standard cheap Yamaha sounds. Zero resonance, very sterile/flat, and just like the P125 it sounds like its triggering 2 mediocre sounding samples/layers from the 90's. But on a budget, it does the job.
As far as Rhodes, it sounds like the SL's Mark I is miles above the CK, which doesn't take much though.
thanks for sharing your analysis! i like your style. i was in a ragtime mood and that it would make both and entertaining and useful demo, as there are some sustained passages and a good range of octaves. i've done, or will do, more piano demos of both with more variety though!
@@WoodyPianoShack Ragtime is great and you play it really well.
Prefered NUMA StudioLogic! BIG Armonics!!
Hi Woody
I’m looking to buy one of these boards but can’t find a shop which has both available to try.
How would you compare the action of these boards?
I’m primarily looking for a good realistic piano action.
Thanks
Jon
it's a personal thing, but imho whilst I enjoy both a lot, the numa has a more realistic travel and bottom out, it does feel more premium somehow, but hard to put finger on it. only something you notice really when playing them together. video discussing this coming soon.
@@WoodyPianoShack great - thanks for getting back to me Woody.
Your piano skills are excellent. Both sound good. Yamaha is a bit more gritty.
nice of you to say so. thx. :)
How does their respective keybeds feel, I have a Yamaha YC73 and a Kawaii MP7SE.
I briefly had a CK before returning it because of the GHS action and am a recent owner of Numa X 88. Numa feels a lot more nimble and enjoyable, but both have a similar feeling shallowness that's unfortunate for me, especially as someone with arthritis.
i've got a comparison coming up where I discuss that, I'm fine with both, neither are deal breakers in any way, but numa has the edge in realistic piano-like action, I think.
@@WoodyPianoShack awesome 👏. Looking forward to that 🙂
Find the Studiologic way Better sounding. Plus more layering options.
What happened to the level? When you got to the EP sounds, the level dropped? I like the Studiolog8c better!
interesting but actually no, all sound excerpts are individually loudness normalized. does anybody else think they were quieter?
@@WoodyPianoShack +1 (!)
Studiologic is better.
Yes,I think so too...
There’s definitely a pretty significant difference in devices. There’s around a $500 difference in price in the full sized models. In a lot of ways, the Yamaha has a much preferable control panel. But the studio logic is a work of art, especially the version with the wood ends. The CK 61 seems like the best value. The aluminum track on the back of the Studiologic is definitely a cool insight. Both sound great in different ways.
I am an organ guy....
Why would you say something stupid like that. I think the ck is better but I don’t go around saying something stupid like that. It’s the sound I prefer is the way I would put it. So stop being an idiot.
How are the speakers?
good enough. more info in upcoming vid.
Both boards sound great. Maybe a little more resonance with the Numa and more dynamic control with the Yamaha. I have a cp73 and sounds are very close if not identical to the CK.
I think SL is clearly superior regarding sound.
Merci, chaque instrument a ses song, mais personnellement je préfère le Yamaha CK. Le song est plus claire et mieux agréable à l'oreille...
Numa has more character..i prefer that in music production..maybe also in most enviroments :)
yes, I think that's fair to say. yamaha's pianos are tweaked to just sound great in live or mix, but the numa is pretty special when playing solo.
NUMA X for studio and CK 61 for a portable.
I always judge pianos by their decay aliasing/stepping in the mids & bass. The rounder the tone the more authentic. Most companies are good at top end where damping isn’t modelled. Only then does my empty wallet take over. Honestly, I’d take the Yamaha for practice and bar gigs, and my Nord grand for the stage. Wish the CK had a professional power brick with a Euro lead instead of the jack.
With the Numa you only played one Steinway (GerGrand), and a Yamaha (JpnGrand). It also has another Steinway, a Fazioli, and a Bosendorfer (UsaGrand, ItaGrand, AusGrand). So I say you didn't pick the more interesting ones. Anyway, the Yamaha has the typical clear and static yamaha sounds, personally I don't like it. The Numa has more realism. Idk what you did to destroy the Rhodes sound EP-Mark1, it's not supposed to sound like that.
🎉🎉🎉🎉
Yamaha sounds good as always, but I can't hate the Numa, especially that you can get some of their sounds for free.
BTW Woody, the Rhodes sounded like there was a widening plugin put on them, not sure what happened?
hmm, that's interesting. i did not apply any widening plugin, must be something going on with those presets. that might explain why somebody said the audio went quieter, they are probably listening in mono on a phone!
@@WoodyPianoShackYes, i'm listening in mono, the effect it's weird 😅
To me, it's a bit of a moot point, as I have a Roland RD-2000 (that won't be being replaced any time soon.) If you hadn't put captions on them, I wouldn't have known which was which - especially as they were both being played from the same keyboard.
Time to change your glasses...
@@mrityunjaytripathi5588 No it isn't. Nothing wrong with my glasses, thanks.
@@CraigRodmellMusic OK brother..
@@mrityunjaytripathi5588 Cheers.
Yamaha sounds a tad more compressed. SL sounds quite natural. It’s good we have a choice.
I remember learning one of those tunes when I started taking lessons 40 years ago.
Time flies. 😂
yes, it's so great we have a choice, and you can tweak both to achieve your idea of a great piano!
As a CK and 78' Rhodes owner, the Studiologic sounds superior.
wow, i'd say you are a great person to judge!
The Studio Logo Numa x sounds better.
Studiologic. Just sounds like you are there.
studiologic is italy good product!
yeah, they make ferraris and lambos too! :)
NUMA is much reverb
Can anyone confirm that the electric pianos of the new CK boards sound as good or have the same essential character as the eps of the Yamaha Reface CP? It’s hard to tell over TH-cam, and there don’t appear to be any side by side comparison videos.
I think the ck eps are all sample based like the full size CP88, whereas the reface CP is a hybrid of modelling and samples. From the sounds I have heard, I think the reface sounds more organic, but the CK sounds pretty good.
I prefer Kawai. Kawai pianos put more efforts in making their pianos a little better and not out of just plastic and nothing competes with their rh3 action.
CK
The electric piano on Yamaha sounds good to me
yeah, i think they are pretty solid too.
Numa X sounds much more realistic.
Great but how about wooly bully watch it now
oh no, is it this pecuilar comment again?
Well, now I wish my Yamaha had the s700...
....aaaand the U1, apparently
...aaaand I wish it had DIN MIDI out so I could plug it into my Reface and play those sweet EPs from decent keys. My DP is a P-115, so the good Rhodes has prebaked vibrato, and there's no DIN
Closet yo 2:37 sound disappears
i think there may be some stereo effect on the preset, are you by any chance listening in mono?
@@WoodyPianoShack that has to be the issue... I was using the speakers. I sounds perfect on headphones.
As always, thank you for your videos!!!!
The Numa has better overall sound. I did have one of these on order for over a year. StudioLogic just couldn't deliver. I got a Dexibell instead which is ok but to be honest I'm very disappointed in it.
That's a shame re: Dexibell. I got a great deal discount through Bax Music for my GT version. Really loving the action (a definite improvement over the previous SL88 Grand tbh). See if you can sell Dexi and use to buy the GT .....
My brain says Yamaha but my heart says Numa.
I prefer the Numa, the Yamaha is too coarse.
Let's don't say which is better,which one you will buy if you only can afford one??
good question, but it all depends on how important organ is, and if you have the organ sounds in another keyboard, and which other keyboards you own, overlap etc, so what I would do, is not really relevant to anybody else...?
Not too sure why Singapore don't sell the NUMA. It's solid and much cheaper than Yamaha. V sad
that is indeed, availability on studiologic does not seem to be so widespread as yamaha.
Numa wins all.
Any digital piano is worthless without extensive editing and control over the sound. Comments like warmth or too brittle or doesn't sound like a piano are common mistakes to listen for when equalization, filters, and key articulation to sound engine can fix this very easily. IF you are a master of the keyboards, then it is not possible to hear a piano on TH-cam and know which one is better. AND, the faster you play a piano the more all of the digitals sound alike; when all you are hearing is the first 300miliseconds of a sample then you haven't heard the piano at all yet. The sound system or headphones you are listening to the TH-cam video on will cause the sound to wildly change from what sound system the manufacturer used to build these pianos. And ALL and I mean ALL built in speakers on these Dpianos are crap or worse than crap and should never be used to compare pianos.
I had to finally give up and buy some Dpianos and work with them for months to determine how good any are. Currently I am comparing the Roland RD2000's modeled Vpiano, the Kurtzweil PC4, the Yamaha P515, Yamaha DGX670 sampled Dpianos. The NumaX may be the next one. The RD2000 has the most beautiful sympathetic resonance I have heard yet, and the cheap priced ALL NEW Yamaha DGX670 (nothing resembling any of the last DGX series) may be the best Dpiano at any price!
After over 35 years of playing digitals at home and 55 years of playing acoustics, digital hardware may be finally getting good.
thanks for your thoughtful comment and mini-review of that nice collection of pianos! totally agree on the playback audio system having a hugely significant effect on the sound and realism.
Yeah its amazing what different speakers can do. If I'm comparing 2 keyboards with speakers and don't have headphones, I often plug the first into the second to hear them thru the same speaker. But that exercise falls apart when comparing either to a youtube video.
Studiologic the sound is better
Numa X suena mejor creo yo
Tough shootout. I'll take the YAMAHA.
To my ears, the Yamaha is better overall, it sounds more ‚alive‘. The Yamaha piano is fuller and the Rhodes are smoother and better balanced. The bass of zhe Rhodes of the Studiologic sounds a bit harsh.
Thank you for the comparison!
I didn't hear any difference. Yamaha sounds more habitual(used to) while Numa sounds like it trying to experiment(but it's only about acoustic piano presets. on ep side no difference at all)
StudioLogic is better
I'm gonna be the odd one out and say the Yamaha sounds better than the Numa to my ears. The Numa sounds a bit muddy.
Yamaha don't even stand a chance this time... It looks like the sound engine is borrowed from some cheap chinese company like medeli, or like they are using a very old sinth engine
Numa is the winner
Numa X has a I pad Plugin you can literally plug your ipad up to the CK Via Midi 2.0 & play the Sounds from the ipad through the keyboard withough an interface. 👀🫶🏿🫶🏿. OK BYE🤣