In all honesty, I think flerfers fall into 3 basic categories: Grifters out to make a quick buck. Trolls who are in on the joke. Mentally ill people who believe the trolls and pay the grifters.
That's something I always ask: assume they manage to convince the entire world that they're 100% correct on everything, what next? What can their theories actually accomplish beyond what we already have? What can they predict? There's no actual practical use to anything they theorize about, so it's all totally meaningless. They spend all their time trying to disprove heliocentric predictions but are unable to make any better predictions themselves. What's the actual point? They only want to look down on other people.
@@MLennholm that's brilliant, if you don't have a model there is nothing to prove wrong 😂🤣 On the other hand, magic and witchcraft are equally viable explanations to a flerfs
I wonder now... There are certainly apps that precisely predict astronomical events for any observer on Earth. There _must_ be a precise model inside that corresponds to the real world. How come no one has leaked or reverse engineered such Final Correct Model of Flat Earth yet? =D
For real. The debunking aspect of Dave's videos is actually not the main draw, his in-depth, yet understandable explanation of the topic at hand is what makes his videos really worth watching. He's really got a gift for teaching these things.
They’ve made me appreciate the simple beauty of things like sunrise and sunset. I used to take them more or less for granted. I love all of Creation more due to them. I hope we always have a few of them around.
They already have problems with getting sun and moon to circle over their flat plane correctly. Introducing more moving parts would melt their circuits. The best they can come up with is the denial of reality version: "It's all just a projection onto your personal atmospheric dome!"
The fact that these models perfectly match real world observations while flerfs don't even try to have such a model completely annihilates flat Earth. The sad part is they can't even comprehend why that is.
Absolutely correct. Also, apparently, not something actually attributable to Mark Twain, according to fact-checking sources. Still a great line though, just wish we knew who to really give credit to!
@@RunGreenManor IKR? Here we've got a universal punching bag that everyone (that matters) can agree on hating, and they have to bring up politics. Like socialism isn't _perfect,_ but are you comparing it to *capitalism?* Maybe you shouldn't throw stones?
I really love how it is not a "HAHA look at this idiot" type debunking. His explanations are always easy to understand. While I'm not a conspiracy person Dave definitely explained things that were a little hard to grasp or I had to pay to understand myself without researching a topic I wasn't familiar with.
@@madfinntech Flat Earthers have traditionally had difficulties grasping most concepts.. Resulting in the need to explain the absolute basics of so many subjects. Dave is honestly amazing in this regard. Some of his videos deal with concepts *so* fundamental, it could have come across as condescending, that is, if flerfs had the first clue about anything they talk about. Its like watching the classic *"These cows are SMALL, and those cows are FAR AWAY"* scene, in every conceivable way. Having to explain such things to adults is truly embarrassing, clearly the education system is not working as intended..
It's simple selection bias, really. Anybody honest enough to actually be testing their ideas and competent enough to get their equipment to focus will quickly discover that the Earth is spherical. If you fail either of those criteria, then you will always either make mistakes or pretend to make mistakes, and confirmation bias will do the rest.
I love how he's explaining every argument without rudeness or insults. I follow other debunkers who mostly just say "you wrong, so you idiot" and then laught at them. Also every time i think i know a lot this guy just teaches me at least 5 new things.
I agree, lots of respect for Dave's ability to remain calm and polite in the face of stupidity. It; s why I don't like watching Sciman Dan. He occasionally makes mistakes (so does Dave, to err is human after all), but his condescending attitude makes his own mistakes rather cringe.
@Packhorse-bh8qn Eh, it's called diversity of tactics. SciManDan is kind of a douche, but at the same time, Flat Earthers absolutely need to be made fun of, talked down to, and put in their place. "That's only going to make them double down--" Well, I don't know how to tell you this, if you haven't already noticed, _they're doing that anyhow._
@Packhorse-bh8qn What we have here is a fundamental misunderstanding of what the term "diversity of tactics" actually means. Dan is a dick, he acts like a dick to people, that's _his_ tactic. Dave is a much more polite guy, his tactic is something along the lines of "you get more flies with honey than with vinegar." Think of it like Good Cop/Bad Cop, only they don't interact with each other. "So... _nothing_ like Good Cop/Bad Cop, then?" Okay, that's fair. But the _point_ is that humans are not a monolith. And not _everybody_ is going to respond to the _same_ tactics. Just as there is no "cure all" solution for any psychological problem, there is no _single_ way of handling Flat Earthers.
@Packhorse-bh8qn You _think_ I'm wrong because this is one of those arguments where you're arguing against the point you _wish_ I was making rather than the one I actually am. I have fully acknowledged that he is a jerk to everybody, I'm not entirely sure why you adamantly pretend I haven't? You just need _something_ to argue against, so you have to pretend my position is worse, to make you feel better about yourself... or something. You also seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding of what the term "in one ear and out the other" means. Yes, you can hear me... -metaphorically, since I'm typing,- but you simply aren't _retaining_ any of the information. I try to explain things further, and in greater detail each time, while you parrot that SciManDan is a jerk... a position we _both_ hold. I'm not really sure what you want from me?
A flat earth is just so unimaginative and dull. Reality is fascinating and beautiful. I used to not care about those who choose to be ignorant, but the past 9 years have shown me how dangerous ignorance can be. Thank you for fighting against it.
@@seracris8357 The late Terry Pratchett thought so as well. His diskworld series books are amazing works mixing a dash of old cosmology with a huge helping of comic fantasy.
Yeah, its not like they can imagine some good stuff like HALO type flattened centrifuge ring world or the flat world like in Sinbad or 1001 Nights. No, its just a dull pizza with ignorance and superiority complex.
Flat earther think everything is a "projection" on the firmament, which nobody has ever seen, and that flat earther have no idea what it is made of. So stars, the moon, and even the sun don't exist. And forget about things like the ISS and artificial satellites circling the earth.
It's pretty much confirmed that FE proponents can't track more than one motion at a time on any axis. This issue is probably more common than we realize and not confined to them (for instance I do have difficulties thinking in 3D even if I have no problem grasping the roughly spherical shape of the Earth). I wonder if it's caused by some unknown condition or just by laziness and indoctrination
Finding Stellarium was honestly the best thing for me even as a bareely-even-amateur-level astrophotographer. Just getting a good sense of the night sky was made so much easier with it :D
A planetarium app is definitely a must for planetary photgraphy. I would use SkySafari to find the rise, opposition and red spot visibility times for shooting Jupiter. 👍
In my opinion the fact that the average person can not possibly prove or disprove either, flat or oblate sphere, given the average person (not a bureaucrat "scientist") working off of information that is presented to them don't have the hands on capability...kudos to the ones that are not afraid to THINK about it. People should never stop questioning anything and everything. I hate small talk. Be more interesting.
@@emilykearns9766 The average person can very easily prove the earth is not flat. Measuring the seasonal tilt and movement of the planets and stars are very easy if someone bothers to actually do it.
@@emilykearns9766 All it really took to establish the shape of the Earth was careful astronomy, the ability to travel long distances, and geometry. All of those were in short supply in pre-history but are practically free nowadays. Moderns have no excuse.
@@mymumbakescakes that's easily explained, those in power that have been keeping keeping the globe lie and the masses ignorant, simply switch it off 😂😂
Literally the closest I've seen is one claim that light can't travel more than 3,000 miles. When I then asked how it's possible for people in Oslo and Cape Town (~6400 miles apart as the crow flies) to both see the sun at the same time, they just lied about how far apart those cities are.
Ask them how the sun or even sunlight can hide from you if you were the pilot in an aircraft, at maximum altitude in the middle of the night with your famous Nikon camera, and get them to demonstrate this on a flat floor or table using props as the sun and plane.
I don't think flat Earthers present ANY model for the apparent movement of the planets. That's like claiming a well used map is total nonsense and not presenting any map instead.
@@Green_Tea_Coffeeyup. WaterClosetDavis does the same lol. You ask him what the size of a location is or what the distance between two points on his Perfectly Accurate Gleason's map, he deflects or tells you to do it "since you know so much about it." LOL. He's a complete coward.
Despite being retired and having zero interest in photography, I love these videos because I *learn* something with every one. It's often (as with this one) something I'd never thought about before, and that makes it even more exciting. It's extraordinary that there are people who insist that there is nothing to be learnt, that the world can't be explained, and that anyone trying to explain the world *must* be lying or in the pay of liars.
I'm glad for flat earthers, if it weren't for them, we'd never had this channel. I knew that Mercury and Venus were visible during the day, even possibly transiting the sun, but I didn't know that could also be seen just after sunset, and just before sunrise. Thanks flat earthers!
Transits are quite rare, though. The next transit of Mercury is in November 2031. The next Venus transit is not until December 2117, so if you missed the ones in 2004 and 2012, and don't have access to a time machine, you're probably out of luck there!
So glad I had a cool science teacher. In the 80s a pair. If binoculars and a white piece of paper. Got to watch a dark sport move over the bright spot. Was amazing I just don't remember if it was mercury or venus, but was still and event that I remember vividly to this day.
I spent about 10 years working in a planetarium. I wrote shows, I performed shows. I answered open questions whenever audiences had them. And every day when I left the planetarium, the sky would match exactly what the date and time in the planetarium equipment showed on the dome. Sometimes, I would open the back door, and we would exit into the darkness or twilight, and the audience would see a sky that matched exactly what they had just seen in the planetarium. It was especially nice to do this when it was just twilight, and a planet like Jupiter or Venus would already be easily visible in the sky, even though the sky is still somewhat blue. The point is that all the planetarium software made in the world matches the sky, so they are all going to have to be in on the conspiracy, or just not smart enough to know as much as flat earthers do about astronomy. (lol)
Of course they will claim that all the plantariums (or should that be planetaria?) are part of the conspiracy. With 8 billion people on the planet, they seem to think that at least 7.9 billion of them are in on it.
When I photograph Jupiter, I can literally observe how the Great Red Spot moves from left to right in only a few hours. I use tables that predict its appearance, so that I can plan my sessions at night. It's always spot on (those predictions even take into account the enormous distance between Jupiter and Earth, which equals more than half a light-hour, when in opposition). The relative positions of Jupiter's moons are even a navigational tool, as the pattern of those four large satellites is like a celestial clock. They can be easily observed through binoculars. Galileo Galilei discovered them and noticed for the first time in mankind's history that celestial bodies are not eternal entities that would never change, as the religiously conditioned presumption went. Flat-Earthers seem to ignore the sheer wealth of observable phenomena out there, discarding them, even before ever having taken notice of them in the first place. What a shame.
They really don't seem to understand the concept that object A (Earth) is moving around object B (The sun) meanwhile Object B and C (Mercury and Venus) Are also moving around object B . The sad thing is this is all observable.
@@Deletirium I'm starting to think flat earthers all have some form of aphantasia and just literally can't imagine anything so all they know is what they see, which is a mostly flat horizon
@@catpoke9557 my dream job is to run transport company for FEs in southern hemisphere. Charging 3x more for same distance is a huge margin and they will be so happy with that. For FEs it will be dig deal "SALE OFF -20%" and for me it will be "hmmm... huge margin anyway"
Anyone can learn to do astronomy and you can prove to yourself that the earth is a globe. Flat earth is about idiots having a temper tantrum, like child who stick their fingers in their ears and go 'nah nah nahhh nah'
And while having a telescope is nice, a flat earther shouldn't even need a scope to do the kind of skywatching necessary to understand how things are visible when they are. It's mostly naked eye stuff. Sure, you could look at other planets with moons with a scope. You can see they are round...and that would be useful.
@@MrOttopants the saddest thing is that astronomers (one that I cannot remember) made measurements without any telescope only by stone age grade tools as crossed sticks with a dial to make observations in precision of half of angular minute, later used by J. Kepler to confirm his hypothesis about planetary movements (and such confirmations turned hypothesis into theory and whilst there are no flaws for a long time it became a law - that is how thoughts in science are ranked)
What I enjoy most about Flat Earth is that we all get to go back and relearn hundreds of years of cumulative scientific innovation and research. btw where are the Flat Earth sims? Minecraft?
The thing that gets me most is that you can look up where the stars and planets will be on any given night, literally go outside, and then boom the prediction *will* be correct, perfectly accurate, and it's based on a heliocentric globe earth model, and it's correct over and over night after night. If you actually applied logic to it you'd have to either accept the model *or* believe that everyone who ever created those kinds of predictions was somehow colluding and mapping it secretly to a flat earth, even when they're fully open about how their predictions work
You seem to forget that the flat earth community actually believe the globe earth is great conspiracy and that the whole science community is on it. On that basis, of course the predictions will be right, since the stars and planets are mere projections onto the giant dome that protects our atmosphere from the vacuum of space.
ok, so you are thinking harder than most, which is good. But the Earth is not moving, Have you ever seen those glass balls you can turn over and snow is falling when you set it upright again? Picture us as that snow globe. Above us and that glass dome, Genesis 1:6, Psalms 19:1, which is the firmament. The "stars" are moving around us. Polaris never moves though. It's the only one. Why? Because it is directly above us. It is the center. So, the obvious question, why would they lie though? First off, 99.9% of them do not know they are regurgitating crafty falsehoods. They just believe the next man above them and so on and so forth. 1. Money, trillions of dollars have been blown on "space" exploration. When all it brings us are some green screen/CGI altered images of supposed "planets" and stars. So the real question is "why wouldn't they lie to make trillions?"2. Control, If the masses put their faith in "Science"(man) and believe we were formed out of randomness and are just a speck of dust in time, just a nobody, it breeds nihilism. And people who are easier to be controlled(remember the COVID hoax?). If the earth is proven flat, it then proves a creator. Immediately upon this realization the power would shift from man to God. They cannot have you trusting God over them period. Consider this 1% of what I can show you. But you have to be open-minded. Basically, this is your chance to take the red or blue pill.
What is so funny to me is that flat earthers cannot provide a unified reason for everything Dave is providing and cannot back it up on their faulty flat earth model. It's all guessing with them. We who know that we live on a globe can ALL verify all of the information that Dave has provided in this video and we will all get the EXACT same results.
Fun fact: In Hungarian language, apart from calling Venus as "Venus", like every other normal human on Earth, we have a secondary name for it. The exact translation of it into English would be something like "dusk-dawn star".
If we're going to involve Stellarium in a globe proof, just the fact that the "firmament" is a full 360 degree spherical dome, and how it looks from locations all over the Earth, kills FE models dead. Turn off the terrain visibility and look down, and that matches the sky on that other side of the globe. Spain and New Zealand are great locations to compare.
And Stellarium is Open Source, so if they have "reverse-engineered" (as flerfs like to misuse yet another term they don't understand) FE to make it look like a globe, it would be possible to show us where in the code that happens. I've challenged many flerfs to do this, and not one has taken up the challenge.
I'm certain that a big part of their issue with Venus is thinking that 12 o'clock midinight is when you're facing directly away from the sun (which is almost never the case North or south of the equator)
I think it's more that they see day and night as binary: as soon as the sun “sets” (a perspective illusion, of course) we flip to facing directly away from it. I have not found them saying so explicitly, and perhaps they don't think it consciously, but it fits the way they talk about the Venus problem.
@@tamfangthey've never seen a sunset where the sun continues to illuminate part of the sky for some time after it disappears over the horizon? (Maybe they just pretend they don't see that because their model (when they admit to having one) can't explain it)
@@tamfang Body spray, guitar shred or just the good ol’ weapon? 😂 Edit: I can only imagine Erathostenes doing that legendary guitar solo after successfuly measuring the Earth’s circumference.
“When you observe them , in focus….” Knowing that Flerfers would watch this the addition of ‘in focus’ has to be in there. As most of us have seen what they do with this suggestion. That’s right; post videos of what’s clearly out of focus images of various celestial objects as a gotcha.
Less than a minute into the video, I can say that the very fact that we have a model that can be used to predict _exactly_ when and where they will be visible shows their claim to be absolutely absurd. Add to that the fact that they have no such predictive ability and, well... does anything more need to be said?
I also wonder how they can still be a flerf when we are able to predict hundreds of celestial events while they can't even predict the upcoming sunset/sunrise.
The flat earthers also don’t believe in gravity or space, so what is our earth sitting on then? Does this substance go on forever being that there’s no gravity? It’s absolutely absurd and makes no sense whatsoever. Somebody explain this one thing please?!
Occasionally they claim that the earth is a flat disk that's is accelerating upward, though they never explain what's accelerating it, how fast it's going, what it's traveling through, or how the evidence they have for any of this
@@incognitoburrito6020 the problem is that this can be debunked in a blink of an eye if you are willing to. - lets say that light speed limit is not a case (whilst FEs claim that there is much lower) then speed light barrier argument cannot be used - the gravity is acceleration thing (not el mag buoyancy magic) what is needed to do - take anything solid - i.e brick - take high precision scales (like very precise) - go to Iceland and measure weight - go to Congo (Kenya, Uganda, Somalia) and measure weight -do same for Bangladesh and Mt. Everest Base camp (peak will be better, but lets keep it simple) If g is acceleration of plate, that in 1day (86400s) we can say, that Congo (Kenya, Uganda, Somalia - whatever near the equator place used) is 204 millions of metres behind Iceland point (pole to equator difference of G-centrifugal force 0.034m/s^2 I used 80% of it - if I put here wrong numbers, use good ones). Same principle used for Bangladesh/Nepal thing will make Mt. Everest area the deepest most known trench in flatland - but nobody knows it, because pancake was thorn apart and all fell off it.
I don't want to diss anyone, as I really do enjoy most of all of the creators who make flat earth debunking vids...but I have to say that Dave's videos are soooo much more educational, and thus more interesting than anyone else. He's really been crushing it lately.
Yes, he’s managed to use a dangerously inaccurate misinformation spreading turn into very interesting educational videos while debunking. You both enjoy the debunk part, but ultimately learn little new aspects too.
I've watched SciManDan in the past and a few Creaky videos more recently, but I do appreciate the less hyperbolic, less angry style we have here on this channel. But I do have to say the dog is annoying me. I'm not anti dog, even if I'm more of a cat person, but that pupper seems to be stuck up his arse all the time. Cue all the people dragging me for saying anything about the pup. If I want cute animals, I'll watch a cute animal video, not a flerf debunking one.
@@NorthernSeaWitchI'm the other a-hole. I love pets, and I'm glad Rusty is happy, but I could stand to see him less often. Y'all may commence my requisite verbal thrashing now. 🙉
@@NorthernSeaWitch It's not just the better bedside manner, he provides full explanations with source where a lot of Dan's rebuttals are simply naked claims where you would have to dive in on your own to find out where that was sourced.
Because they are between the Earth and the Sun...? Why are 3 dimension so hard for them to comprehend? It's like when they say you shouldn't see the Moon during the day.
I love their stupid little 'the sun and moon are on opposite sides' claims because then the moon will *only* be visible at night...and it's clearly not lol.
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Very good! And now I have a new Astronomy app! Thank you very much! Love your content!
So, let me get this straight. Flerfs claim you can't look outside the Earth (at other planets and stars) to determine what the shape of the Earth is. Yet are trying to use other planets to determine the shape of the Earth?
Yup. They cant hold more than one thought at a time, thus they can never see their contradictions. It's the same thing for how the sunlight has limited range, but stuff further away from the Earth than the sun that is also emitting light...does not have the same limitation.
Yeah, definitely don't hold your breath. It's been shown that holding your breath while waiting for an honest and scientifically accurate answer from a flat earther has a statistically higher chance of turning you into a flat earther than all of their "arguments" combined. Excessive laughter and blunt force head trauma from facepalming after hearing arguments also pose a high risk.
@@DaveMcKeegana good old reliable camera and tripod is enough to debunk the flat-earth, but i guess they enjoy to live in their blissfull ignorance smh. 🙄
@@DaveMcKeegan What sort of equipment do you need to take to keep the cameras and other electronic kit from freezing up or having the batteries drain prematurely? Frankly, if you get the time, I'd be interested to see a video where you talk through all of the gear you're planning to take to Antarctica.
@@Green_Tea_Coffee The camera is black so the heat from a 24 hour should prevent that from freezing 😉 The bigger issue I've read about is humidity when taking the camera back into the tent - but I'm already thinking about doing a video nearer to the time to explain the plan for everything I'm taking
@@DaveMcKeegandon't waste your time going Antartica, it won't change their minds, these are the same people that told me meteor showers are "angels fighting"
These advanced computer tools showing and predicting the heliocentric model to a high degree of observable accuracy are admittedly truly impressive but can they really match up to the awesome power of a deluded flerfer in his garage armed with a globe, a torch, a 12" ruler and a ping pong ball on a stick?
I have always wondered why if flat earthers are so sure they are right then why don't they make a software that works to show how the flat earth model works and predicts the locations of sky objects like stelarium and sandbox universe do with absolute accuracy.
Came for the debunking, stayed for the learning. Your videos are always so informative. Such a cool way to learn about the universe. And other topics you cover.
their argument is that you don't know that the things in the sky are like earth. once you establish that the earth is a sphere, then you can use the appearance and movement of celestial objects to establish that the earth is just another planet in orbit around the sun.
@@johnqpublic7608 I guess that's kind of a good point that if you don't see the Earth as "just another planet" you wouldn't draw parallels to other planets.
problem is that they do not see anything in a sky as a sphere, even Sun and Moon are pronounced as dot lights by some and super great zoom on their (put here any device they use) is way less than 200x and they see only shaking dot lights (what confuses me is claiming that 120x zoom used on ship will bring it back, but never used to observe stars whilst 20x-100x is enough to see planets)
@@adryanclay Don't be sexist: she wasn't flawed, she only had a less marketable appeal! You can find more details on Flat Out's video 34. FLAT EARTH - Flat Earth Model Revealed!
1) The model isn't wrong, flerfs just don't (want to) understand it. 2) Even if the model was wrong about this, that only means it's wrong about this one thing. Proving one thing wrong does not say sweet f/a about another thing.
during a total eclipse I experienced if I recall correctly (2017).. planets (Venus? and Jupiter) became visible because the glare from the atmosphere (in the local area) was greatly reduced during totality. Very surreal actually.
That was absolutely the case in the eclipse this spring. It was amazing! And totally predicted by the heliocentric/globe model. Although I didn't realize that ahead of time, I just saw them show up and was blown away!
I experienced that one as well. Went to the ideal location in Northern Georgia. A brief, simple experience, but certainly more surreal than I initially anticipated.
Fairly recently, I had a Flat Earther parrot the "if the Earth is going through all these motions, then why can't we feel them?" statement. I did the math and showed - with all the formulas and figures - how much force the Earth's rotation would have on a person with a specific weight. He kept saying "your numbers", but it was the physics and the math. I asked him to figure out how much force we would feel with the Earth's orbit around the Sun and the Sun's orbit around the galaxy's center. He never did. Flat Earthers base their beliefs on their guesses and feelings based on what they are taught by their cult leaders. They simply don't do the math or, as shown in this video, the geometry for their claims. If a con artist in their cult tells them something that aligns with their cult's teachings, they accept it. If their cult or its teachings is called into questions, the vast majority of Flat Earthers will have a fit (refer to the "Final Experiment"). Flat Earthers never test their claims. As long as they "feel" their claims are correct, they will believe their claims are correct.
They don't do the math because it involves more than counting on their fingers and toes and likely numbers with 3+ digits in either direction and those are *terrifying*! Just, just, just look at it! 1.0x10^-14 torr! Such a big negative number! Or spinning at 1000mph on the equator! So fast! AAAAHHHH!!!!
Yeah you really cant approach it with numbers. Maybe ask them why they feel stationary when driving a car? The answer is that the earth is like the inside of a car; its an inertial reference frame. We dont feel it because we're moving with it, not against it.
@@deadturret4049 they don't understand Thing A relative to Thing B lol. If they did, they wouldn't be flerfs. They also don't understand scale or how to think in 3D. Being able to do any one of those prevents flerfdom.
As a resident of the Southern Hemisphere, thank you for mentioning that the sky appears different from here. A lot of people either don’t know this or, if they do, don’t give it much thought. ❤ The difference in the night sky is something that I find takes a little getting used to when you swap hemispheres. It’s a little like trying to figure out how to drive on the other side of the road; it’s so similar, but also not and in a very disconcerting way.
@@johnqpublic7608 Not sure if they deleted their comment or if the TH-cam filter claimed it, but I’ve noticed that appeals to antiquity are surprisingly common arguments by flerfs. I think I figured out the two primary motivations though. 1. They think they have to say the ancients were right in order to validate their religious text of choice. 2. They think that ancient people could only figure out simple things and if something is “simple”, it must be right.
I cannot imagine Australia seeing night sky while driving other side of a road I am used to. The worst nightmare. :D (do not mix wit Austria - it is what I am used to)
It would be cool if you also did discussions on things like terraforming planets, conditions of newly discovered planets and what the planets/moons might be like that they think are habitable or could be made habitable.
I've actually managed to spot Jupiter during the day in the sky with my bare eyes using stellarium because it was on the opposite side of the sky, but it took a lot of time and scanning the sky!
We don't just use stellarium to see where and when objects will be visible in the night sky; we link it to our mounts via USB and it will point our scopes EXACTLY to that object. THAT'S how precise it is!
I want to know why no flerfers have ever launched high-altitude balloons to do their own tests and gather their own footage. After all, it's something that's been done by at least a half-dozen TH-camrs and a number of high school science clubs.
@@DonPusateri It's awesome how many videos there are here on YT of people sending balloons up to the edge of space and recording it. Yet not a single flerfer has managed to duplicate it. I guess they'd have to leave their basements to do that.
@@Green_Tea_Coffeeone did! A polish rapper. He then vanished from the internet for a few months before popping back in with an apology for ever being a flat earther lol
The people in charge of keeping the flat earth a secret are freakin' really good at their jobs. The level of work it must've taken to meticulously work out how a heliocentric model of our solar system would work - proactively and retroactively coordinate the corresponding locations of celestial bodies for each day by mathematically predicting their cycles, movements and phases, relative to Earth - rendering this all out using CGI (I'll assume, since that's the usual go-to) and then (in the ultimate act of hubris) releasing all that information in a series of publicly available tools and archives for anyone to scrutinize - is all just insane. I can't really figure out why they went to all the trouble. Just admitting the earth is flat would've been WAY easier, I assume.
IT would , but then they would have to admit sun is local too. Obviously it’s not a nuclear fusion fire, so what is it. That’s a burning question they not ready to answer
@@Globeisahoaxx "burning" question... good one. I'm tempted to ask what's so "obvious" about the sun that you know it can't be fueled by fusion but I can't be bothered to bang my own head against a wall for however long it would take to give up on trying to point out objective reality. For the record, though: this strategy of saying vaguely intellectual sounding things while trolling comment sections of "globe" videos is probably the best way to go about earning some credibility for your cause. Good luck.
@@Globeisahoaxx "they would have to admit sun is local too" Please define "local". Can you prove the sun is "local"? Can you demonstrate how to calculate the width of the "local" sun and its distance from the surface of flat earth?
When Venus is high in the sky, it is usually Jupiter. I have seen more than one flat-earther video where Jupiter was mistaken for Venus due to it's brightness.
I confirm as an astronomy student I used stellarium to check my sextant observations of saturn over several months of weekly observations. They matched. The globe model is accurate.
Moving pictures or not, no matter how much you dumb it down, you'll never be able to dumb it down enough for a flerfer to understand. Their idiocy is willful. They refuse to learn because their faith (belief in the Christian god) is on the line.
Ok, I had never given much thought to what the night sky would look like from the equator, but that time lapse video of the night sky from there was really cool!
I don't even watch your videos for the debunking. I just like learning about stuff and the way you explain things makes it easy for someone with no experience to understand
I am not a trained scientist even though i was earmarked for such as a boy in school. I got sidetracked by classical music instead. but even *I* am stunned by the ignorance of the flatties' claim here
I'm surprised flerfs even wonder about the planets' visibility in the first place as they don't believe space is real and all the stars are just projections anyway.
@@5peciesunkn0wn right, because so far as we can tell, globe model is accurate and correct. But I do appreciate that they're not completely strawmanning globe theory and pretending it makes presuppositions that it doesn't, that are easier to disprove. So there's at least that.
The Final Experiment will likely not convert any flat earthers … we are already witnessing stunning levels of goalpost moving … but at least it seems we won’t have to deal with the equidistant azimuthal map that much anymore. They will all just “not have a model”.
Fun fact! This is how the modern Heliocentric model was created. The smartest minds in Europe stared at the sky and charted the planets, trying to model a geocentric solar system. As measurements got more accurate, the models made less and less sense. Until one guy said, “Hey! I put the sun in the middle and it worked out nearly perfectly!” And then another guy said “Hey! I did the same, but made the orbits ovals and now it’s perfect!” You can go back and look at the horrible, broken, inexplicable complexity that was the leading model of the solar system (“universe”) for a long time. The fact that the motions of the planets specifically don’t work unless the sun is in the middle is why we learned this fact.
@@Mike-zu8cp Sure, like the fact that the earth is a globe and orbits the sun. You aren't man enough to admit that fact, so you're rather embarrass yourself.
"Alas that's gonna be it...", calmly said after clearly explaining that the globe model is a rather astonishingly accurate model, and as equaly easy to falsify, were it not.
Yeah, but if they don't ever actually present a model, then they don't have to worry about defending it when it's scrutinized for whether it works or not for things like astronomy or road trips!
Stellarium is free! Ubiverse sandbox is great, but I'd recommend Space Engine instead. It is like universe sandbox, except the whole universe and you can do everything like that there too, only more advances and possibilities.
The flerfs claim the globe earth model doesn't work, while not even having a model
In all honesty, I think flerfers fall into 3 basic categories:
Grifters out to make a quick buck.
Trolls who are in on the joke.
Mentally ill people who believe the trolls and pay the grifters.
I remember seeing a flat earther actually make the argument that they didn't have the burden of proof because they didn't have a model
That's something I always ask: assume they manage to convince the entire world that they're 100% correct on everything, what next? What can their theories actually accomplish beyond what we already have? What can they predict? There's no actual practical use to anything they theorize about, so it's all totally meaningless. They spend all their time trying to disprove heliocentric predictions but are unable to make any better predictions themselves. What's the actual point? They only want to look down on other people.
@@MLennholm that's brilliant, if you don't have a model there is nothing to prove wrong 😂🤣
On the other hand, magic and witchcraft are equally viable explanations to a flerfs
I wonder now... There are certainly apps that precisely predict astronomical events for any observer on Earth. There _must_ be a precise model inside that corresponds to the real world. How come no one has leaked or reverse engineered such Final Correct Model of Flat Earth yet? =D
I hope these flat earthers never shut up. I've learned so much from this Dave debunking than I wouldv'e on my own
For real. The debunking aspect of Dave's videos is actually not the main draw, his in-depth, yet understandable explanation of the topic at hand is what makes his videos really worth watching. He's really got a gift for teaching these things.
@@Green_Tea_Coffee No, we all know it's the dog that keeps us coming back
@@gruffrc Rusty is absolutely the icing on the cake of this channel!
They’ve made me appreciate the simple beauty of things like sunrise and sunset. I used to take them more or less for granted. I love all of Creation more due to them.
I hope we always have a few of them around.
@@Green_Tea_Coffee. It may have what got be watching… as I pet my own liver and white springer.
"uranus is behind you" truer words were never spoken with a straight face.
For some flerfs, it resides on the front of their faces...
@@TheMcIkeJust below their nose!!!
The Sun don't shine in the backside of Uranus for over 30 years at a time.
True fact. Just worded a little strangely.
Good to see the eight year olds have subscribed or visited a good channel.
@@hemeoncn good to see the stodgy curmudgeons learned to use youtube.
"Let's make a 3D model of the solar system" said no flat earther ever.
Why would they need to - it’s all flat
@@JohnR31415 well, they're so busy trying to falsify the globe.
They already have problems with getting sun and moon to circle over their flat plane correctly. Introducing more moving parts would melt their circuits.
The best they can come up with is the denial of reality version: "It's all just a projection onto your personal atmospheric dome!"
Flat Out had a few attempts but they usually ended in fire.
No, but they know how to throw word salad at it.
Flat earth has created amazing opportunities to learn astronomy
I correlate to agreement.
Fr, I'm an astronomy nerd and my bff told me about how she learnt astronomy from flat earth debunks. I'm proud
So long as your brain doesn't melt from listening to the flerfs long enough to debunk them.
The fact that these models perfectly match real world observations while flerfs don't even try to have such a model completely annihilates flat Earth. The sad part is they can't even comprehend why that is.
They can't comprehend it because it would means they're wrong. And anything verifiable that proofs they're wrong is either "fake" or "payed by NASA"
*The Truth has no defense against a fool determined to believe a lie.*
_Mark Twain_
Absolutely correct.
Also, apparently, not something actually attributable to Mark Twain, according to fact-checking sources. Still a great line though, just wish we knew who to really give credit to!
Also why socialism still exists.
@@zeehero7280 define socialism
@@zeehero7280what’s your beef with (understanding of) Socialism ?
@@RunGreenManor IKR? Here we've got a universal punching bag that everyone (that matters) can agree on hating, and they have to bring up politics. Like socialism isn't _perfect,_ but are you comparing it to *capitalism?* Maybe you shouldn't throw stones?
Honestly, I think your videos are The best flat earth debunkings. Your diagrams and explanations are just so thorough and easy to understand
Yeah Rusty does an Awesome job & Dave is also good at translating from Woof Woof to English for us 😂
Actually Rusty does all the research, writing and editing, and Dave just reads the script.
I really love how it is not a "HAHA look at this idiot" type debunking. His explanations are always easy to understand. While I'm not a conspiracy person Dave definitely explained things that were a little hard to grasp or I had to pay to understand myself without researching a topic I wasn't familiar with.
The proviso "in focus" made me smile. Flat earthers appear to have an issue understanding the concept.
Flat earthers have traditionally had difficulties in grasping concepts of photography.
🤔A lack of focus also affects their abillity to learn
@@madfinntech Flat Earthers have traditionally had difficulties grasping most concepts..
Resulting in the need to explain the absolute basics of so many subjects.
Dave is honestly amazing in this regard. Some of his videos deal with concepts *so* fundamental, it could have come across as condescending, that is, if flerfs had the first clue about anything they talk about.
Its like watching the classic *"These cows are SMALL, and those cows are FAR AWAY"* scene, in every conceivable way. Having to explain such things to adults is truly embarrassing, clearly the education system is not working as intended..
@@ronen44444447 Sadly flerfs find it far it more difficult to grasp the *"small/far away"* concept, than Father Dougal did.
It's simple selection bias, really. Anybody honest enough to actually be testing their ideas and competent enough to get their equipment to focus will quickly discover that the Earth is spherical.
If you fail either of those criteria, then you will always either make mistakes or pretend to make mistakes, and confirmation bias will do the rest.
I love how he's explaining every argument without rudeness or insults. I follow other debunkers who mostly just say "you wrong, so you idiot" and then laught at them.
Also every time i think i know a lot this guy just teaches me at least 5 new things.
I agree, lots of respect for Dave's ability to remain calm and polite in the face of stupidity. It; s why I don't like watching Sciman Dan. He occasionally makes mistakes (so does Dave, to err is human after all), but his condescending attitude makes his own mistakes rather cringe.
@Packhorse-bh8qn Eh, it's called diversity of tactics. SciManDan is kind of a douche, but at the same time, Flat Earthers absolutely need to be made fun of, talked down to, and put in their place. "That's only going to make them double down--" Well, I don't know how to tell you this, if you haven't already noticed, _they're doing that anyhow._
@Packhorse-bh8qn What we have here is a fundamental misunderstanding of what the term "diversity of tactics" actually means. Dan is a dick, he acts like a dick to people, that's _his_ tactic. Dave is a much more polite guy, his tactic is something along the lines of "you get more flies with honey than with vinegar."
Think of it like Good Cop/Bad Cop, only they don't interact with each other. "So... _nothing_ like Good Cop/Bad Cop, then?" Okay, that's fair. But the _point_ is that humans are not a monolith. And not _everybody_ is going to respond to the _same_ tactics. Just as there is no "cure all" solution for any psychological problem, there is no _single_ way of handling Flat Earthers.
@Packhorse-bh8qn It's just in one ear and out the other with you, isn't it?
@Packhorse-bh8qn You _think_ I'm wrong because this is one of those arguments where you're arguing against the point you _wish_ I was making rather than the one I actually am. I have fully acknowledged that he is a jerk to everybody, I'm not entirely sure why you adamantly pretend I haven't? You just need _something_ to argue against, so you have to pretend my position is worse, to make you feel better about yourself... or something.
You also seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding of what the term "in one ear and out the other" means. Yes, you can hear me... -metaphorically, since I'm typing,- but you simply aren't _retaining_ any of the information. I try to explain things further, and in greater detail each time, while you parrot that SciManDan is a jerk... a position we _both_ hold. I'm not really sure what you want from me?
A flat earth is just so unimaginative and dull. Reality is fascinating and beautiful. I used to not care about those who choose to be ignorant, but the past 9 years have shown me how dangerous ignorance can be. Thank you for fighting against it.
I actually really like the idea of a flat world for a fantasy setting.
Doughnut earth supremecy
@@seracris8357 The late Terry Pratchett thought so as well. His diskworld series books are amazing works mixing a dash of old cosmology with a huge helping of comic fantasy.
Yeah, its not like they can imagine some good stuff like HALO type flattened centrifuge ring world or the flat world like in Sinbad or 1001 Nights.
No, its just a dull pizza with ignorance and superiority complex.
Flat earth ruins relationships
And then you have most other flat earthers saying that planets don't even exist because space is fake, oh the irony
Flat earther think everything is a "projection" on the firmament, which nobody has ever seen, and that flat earther have no idea what it is made of. So stars, the moon, and even the sun don't exist. And forget about things like the ISS and artificial satellites circling the earth.
Flerfers cannot seemingly think in 3D because they expect all things to be on the same plane as in a drawing.
I'm not sure flat earthers can even think in 1D!
They all operate under the idea they are the center. Nothing can be moving independently from them.
Flerfers are special. So if they can't understand it then it's 100% fake sorcery. If you did your own research you would know this. WAKE UP MAN! :)
I can make a 2-D drawing of the Earth, Sun, and Venus and show why can see what we claim.
It's pretty much confirmed that FE proponents can't track more than one motion at a time on any axis. This issue is probably more common than we realize and not confined to them (for instance I do have difficulties thinking in 3D even if I have no problem grasping the roughly spherical shape of the Earth). I wonder if it's caused by some unknown condition or just by laziness and indoctrination
Why are those people hellbent on letting everyone know they have no remote understanding of math and physics?
Because they're religious. And that doesn't come with having logic.
@@hippopotamus86 That alone isn't sufficient. There are plenty of religious people who understand math, physics, the solar system, and BBT.
That's because they are proud of their ignorance and total lack of understanding.
@@kmbbmj5857 But, that religion is based upon ignorance about reality and regarding math as the sign of the devil.
@@hippopotamus86 Most are trolls.
I'm an astronomer and astrophotographer and can confirm Stellarium is an incredible and powerful tool that we use all the time.
Finding Stellarium was honestly the best thing for me even as a bareely-even-amateur-level astrophotographer. Just getting a good sense of the night sky was made so much easier with it :D
Why do you need a tool we just look out side
@@TJ-o7fbecause time of year and latitude effect what you can see. Oops.
A planetarium app is definitely a must for planetary photgraphy. I would use SkySafari to find the rise, opposition and red spot visibility times for shooting Jupiter. 👍
@@5peciesunkn0wn and how you determine latitude ??
If the Flerfs actually did any real research, there wouldn`t be any Flers ! 😄😄
I'm convinced most flerfs with channels actually know we live on a sphere. But the grift is much too lucrative to let go.
In my opinion the fact that the average person can not possibly prove or disprove either, flat or oblate sphere, given the average person (not a bureaucrat "scientist") working off of information that is presented to them don't have the hands on capability...kudos to the ones that are not afraid to THINK about it. People should never stop questioning anything and everything. I hate small talk. Be more interesting.
@@emilykearns9766 The average person can very easily prove the earth is not flat. Measuring the seasonal tilt and movement of the planets and stars are very easy if someone bothers to actually do it.
@@emilykearns9766 All it really took to establish the shape of the Earth was careful astronomy, the ability to travel long distances, and geometry. All of those were in short supply in pre-history but are practically free nowadays.
Moderns have no excuse.
One half of them make bank whilst laughing at the other half who think they’re being serious. Can’t say I’d give that up.
You know.. i am surprised i haven't heard that the moon is flat.. since it's tidally locked with earth.
They do think that. Or at the very least, they suggest that it may "look" round, but that's not proven.
They usually claim the moon is plasma.
@@UpperDarbyDetailingor a hologram.
They have.
Also that it's self-illuminating.
They ignore libration.
@@giin97 Or just a 2D projection onto the firmament
I was booted from the flat earth group. All i asked was if the covid 2m distancing had pushed anyone over the edge...
🤣
Flerfs are not able to explain night time. I keep asking flerfs... Where does the Sun go at night.? And all I get is crickets.
@@mymumbakescakes that's easily explained, those in power that have been keeping keeping the globe lie and the masses ignorant, simply switch it off 😂😂
Literally the closest I've seen is one claim that light can't travel more than 3,000 miles.
When I then asked how it's possible for people in Oslo and Cape Town (~6400 miles apart as the crow flies) to both see the sun at the same time, they just lied about how far apart those cities are.
Ask them how the sun or even sunlight can hide from you if you were the pilot in an aircraft, at maximum altitude in the middle of the night with your famous Nikon camera, and get them to demonstrate this on a flat floor or table using props as the sun and plane.
Watch The Truman Show, it's all there 😂
@@jmmerkI can leave my home town though
Flerfers don't understand perspective. They actually get pissed when you pinch your finger and thumb and yell... "I'm squishing your head!" 🤣
Yup lol. "The sun and moon are the same size!" "My burger is the same size as this car!"
@@5peciesunkn0wnSee! If I just hold it right here it’s the same size!
Father Ted.
Kids in the Hall reference. 👍
This comment needs more upvotes.
Multiple people in the flat earth community argue that, and I quote, 'observations of the sky prove nothing about the shape of the earth under us'
"Observations of the rippling effect and light attenuation above us _DO NOT_ prove that we are underwa-" **runs out of breath and drowns**
That's just another flavor of the famous line from Adam Savage: "I reject your reality and substitute my own!"
They are just coping 😂
...all the while arguing that observations of the sky prove the earth is flat.
@@adryanclay There's a lot of coping, seething, and malding in the flerfer community.
It's almost like the heliocentric model was first developed by people observing the paths of other planets in the sky.
I don't think flat Earthers present ANY model for the apparent movement of the planets. That's like claiming a well used map is total nonsense and not presenting any map instead.
They claim the UN Logo is a flat earth map, but every time I ask them to show me a travel route planned on the UN Logo they change the subject.
@@Green_Tea_Coffeeyup. WaterClosetDavis does the same lol. You ask him what the size of a location is or what the distance between two points on his Perfectly Accurate Gleason's map, he deflects or tells you to do it "since you know so much about it." LOL.
He's a complete coward.
@@5peciesunkn0wn All flerfs are liars and cowards, pretty much by definition.
exactly.
They claim it just floats out of view
Despite being retired and having zero interest in photography, I love these videos because I *learn* something with every one. It's often (as with this one) something I'd never thought about before, and that makes it even more exciting. It's extraordinary that there are people who insist that there is nothing to be learnt, that the world can't be explained, and that anyone trying to explain the world *must* be lying or in the pay of liars.
I'm glad for flat earthers, if it weren't for them, we'd never had this channel.
I knew that Mercury and Venus were visible during the day, even possibly transiting the sun, but I didn't know that could also be seen just after sunset, and just before sunrise.
Thanks flat earthers!
Transits are quite rare, though. The next transit of Mercury is in November 2031. The next Venus transit is not until December 2117, so if you missed the ones in 2004 and 2012, and don't have access to a time machine, you're probably out of luck there!
Yep. That's why Venus is sometimes called the Morning star or the Evening star.
If not for flatties, Dave would still be talking about lenses
@@tamfangexclusively about lenses. He still does whenever flerfs fail to understand photography.
So glad I had a cool science teacher. In the 80s a pair. If binoculars and a white piece of paper. Got to watch a dark sport move over the bright spot. Was amazing I just don't remember if it was mercury or venus, but was still and event that I remember vividly to this day.
I spent about 10 years working in a planetarium. I wrote shows, I performed shows. I answered open questions whenever audiences had them.
And every day when I left the planetarium, the sky would match exactly what the date and time in the planetarium equipment showed on the dome.
Sometimes, I would open the back door, and we would exit into the darkness or twilight, and the audience would see a sky that matched exactly what they had just seen in the planetarium.
It was especially nice to do this when it was just twilight, and a planet like Jupiter or Venus would already be easily visible in the sky, even though the sky is still somewhat blue.
The point is that all the planetarium software made in the world matches the sky, so they are all going to have to be in on the conspiracy, or just not smart enough to know as much as flat earthers do about astronomy. (lol)
but did you include any interpretive dance when you performed shows?
@@MichaelOnines Not saying I didn't once or twice.
@@MrOttopants I'm not going to ask you to describe the dance for Uranus.
Of course they will claim that all the plantariums (or should that be planetaria?) are part of the conspiracy. With 8 billion people on the planet, they seem to think that at least 7.9 billion of them are in on it.
When I photograph Jupiter, I can literally observe how the Great Red Spot moves from left to right in only a few hours. I use tables that predict its appearance, so that I can plan my sessions at night. It's always spot on (those predictions even take into account the enormous distance between Jupiter and Earth, which equals more than half a light-hour, when in opposition).
The relative positions of Jupiter's moons are even a navigational tool, as the pattern of those four large satellites is like a celestial clock. They can be easily observed through binoculars. Galileo Galilei discovered them and noticed for the first time in mankind's history that celestial bodies are not eternal entities that would never change, as the religiously conditioned presumption went.
Flat-Earthers seem to ignore the sheer wealth of observable phenomena out there, discarding them, even before ever having taken notice of them in the first place. What a shame.
The one good thing about flerfs is that they make Dave make videos, which in turn allows us to see the doggo.
agreed! cute fur baby!
I think the best response to any Flat Earther is what C. C.'S wife said to him while he was making a Flat Earth video: "Stop this bullshit. Geez."
Is that why he does his videos in his van now? lol
@@hoktauriyup.
"Flat earthers think".
LOL. Now THAT'S funny!
so they dont understand something, and instead of learning they say it is impossible. interesting way of life where ignorance is a key
Not just the shape of the Earth, But social media & even "News" pushing "HATE ANYTHING YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND"
There's no mouse cursor when _I_ look outside!
GLOBIES DEBOONKED! 😆
Have you tried turning yourself off and back on again? 😉
@@ceejay0137AYO
"in focus through a telescope"
*confused Flerf P1000 noises*
Wait a tick! CC had Venus _almost_ in focus and showing its gibbous phase. Hastily he defocused his pee-1000
They really don't seem to understand the concept that object A (Earth) is moving around object B (The sun) meanwhile Object B and C (Mercury and Venus) Are also moving around object B . The sad thing is this is all observable.
They truly can't think in 3d.
@@Deletirium I'm starting to think flat earthers all have some form of aphantasia and just literally can't imagine anything so all they know is what they see, which is a mostly flat horizon
I'm pretty sure you mean Object C and D (Mercury and Venus) are also moving around Object B.
@@catpoke9557 my dream job is to run transport company for FEs in southern hemisphere. Charging 3x more for same distance is a huge margin and they will be so happy with that. For FEs it will be dig deal "SALE OFF -20%" and for me it will be "hmmm... huge margin anyway"
Anyone can learn to do astronomy and you can prove to yourself that the earth is a globe.
Flat earth is about idiots having a temper tantrum, like child who stick their fingers in their ears and go 'nah nah nahhh nah'
And while having a telescope is nice, a flat earther shouldn't even need a scope to do the kind of skywatching necessary to understand how things are visible when they are.
It's mostly naked eye stuff. Sure, you could look at other planets with moons with a scope. You can see they are round...and that would be useful.
Yup lol. They've mashed their fingers in their ears so much theres a solid plug of earwax preventing them from hearing anything at this point.
@@MrOttopants the saddest thing is that astronomers (one that I cannot remember) made measurements without any telescope only by stone age grade tools as crossed sticks with a dial to make observations in precision of half of angular minute, later used by J. Kepler to confirm his hypothesis about planetary movements (and such confirmations turned hypothesis into theory and whilst there are no flaws for a long time it became a law - that is how thoughts in science are ranked)
What I enjoy most about Flat Earth is that we all get to go back and relearn hundreds of years of cumulative scientific innovation and research.
btw where are the Flat Earth sims? Minecraft?
Even the Minecraft sun sets UNDER the world.
@@synthetic240 Yup, and notice how it's day and night at the same time across the whole planet in Minecraft too, unlike real life
The thing that gets me most is that you can look up where the stars and planets will be on any given night, literally go outside, and then boom the prediction *will* be correct, perfectly accurate, and it's based on a heliocentric globe earth model, and it's correct over and over night after night. If you actually applied logic to it you'd have to either accept the model *or* believe that everyone who ever created those kinds of predictions was somehow colluding and mapping it secretly to a flat earth, even when they're fully open about how their predictions work
You seem to forget that the flat earth community actually believe the globe earth is great conspiracy and that the whole science community is on it. On that basis, of course the predictions will be right, since the stars and planets are mere projections onto the giant dome that protects our atmosphere from the vacuum of space.
ok, so you are thinking harder than most, which is good. But the Earth is not moving, Have you ever seen those glass balls you can turn over and snow is falling when you set it upright again? Picture us as that snow globe. Above us and that glass dome, Genesis 1:6, Psalms 19:1, which is the firmament. The "stars" are moving around us. Polaris never moves though. It's the only one. Why? Because it is directly above us. It is the center. So, the obvious question, why would they lie though? First off, 99.9% of them do not know they are regurgitating crafty falsehoods. They just believe the next man above them and so on and so forth. 1. Money, trillions of dollars have been blown on "space" exploration. When all it brings us are some green screen/CGI altered images of supposed "planets" and stars. So the real question is "why wouldn't they lie to make trillions?"2. Control, If the masses put their faith in "Science"(man) and believe we were formed out of randomness and are just a speck of dust in time, just a nobody, it breeds nihilism. And people who are easier to be controlled(remember the COVID hoax?). If the earth is proven flat, it then proves a creator. Immediately upon this realization the power would shift from man to God. They cannot have you trusting God over them period. Consider this 1% of what I can show you. But you have to be open-minded. Basically, this is your chance to take the red or blue pill.
What is so funny to me is that flat earthers cannot provide a unified reason for everything Dave is providing and cannot back it up on their faulty flat earth model.
It's all guessing with them.
We who know that we live on a globe can ALL verify all of the information that Dave has provided in this video and we will all get the EXACT same results.
"Hurr durr juzt indocktrinated!" Is their "reasoning".
Fun fact:
In Hungarian language, apart from calling Venus as "Venus", like every other normal human on Earth, we have a secondary name for it. The exact translation of it into English would be something like "dusk-dawn star".
Same in german. Venus is called "Abendstern" or "Morgenstern".
Means evening star or morning star.
@Packhorse-bh8qn Indeed. It appeared that hungarian is not that extraordinary 😉
I've heard it referred to in American English as "the morning and evening star."
Both English and Latin also refer to Venus as Lucifer, as also does French.
@@tb6303It sometimes is called the equivalent to that in German. For example, Morgenstern = Morning star.
If we're going to involve Stellarium in a globe proof, just the fact that the "firmament" is a full 360 degree spherical dome, and how it looks from locations all over the Earth, kills FE models dead. Turn off the terrain visibility and look down, and that matches the sky on that other side of the globe. Spain and New Zealand are great locations to compare.
And Stellarium is Open Source, so if they have "reverse-engineered" (as flerfs like to misuse yet another term they don't understand) FE to make it look like a globe, it would be possible to show us where in the code that happens.
I've challenged many flerfs to do this, and not one has taken up the challenge.
When Flerfs move the goalposts over the horizon, do said goalposts disappear bottom first?
Of course, because of ....... perspective!!! ;)
The goal post is everywhere and nowhere at the same time.
Spectacular job Dave!
I'm certain that a big part of their issue with Venus is thinking that 12 o'clock midinight is when you're facing directly away from the sun (which is almost never the case North or south of the equator)
It’s almost never the case even on the equator :)
I think it's more that they see day and night as binary: as soon as the sun “sets” (a perspective illusion, of course) we flip to facing directly away from it. I have not found them saying so explicitly, and perhaps they don't think it consciously, but it fits the way they talk about the Venus problem.
@@tamfangthey've never seen a sunset where the sun continues to illuminate part of the sky for some time after it disappears over the horizon? (Maybe they just pretend they don't see that because their model (when they admit to having one) can't explain it)
@@SuprousOxide They probably think twilight is leakage from the spotlight.
No proof will end flerfing. Flerfing is less about ignorance and more about performance art.
It's literally the idiots way of trying to appear to be an iconoclast.
Last time I was this early, Eratosthenes was finishing up his experiment to calculate the radius of Earth with two sticks
No. He used one stick.
@@awatt And one well.
@@Basics4Dumm135
And an accurate measurement of the distance between them.
@@Basics4Dumm135 And one axe!
@@tamfang Body spray, guitar shred or just the good ol’ weapon? 😂
Edit: I can only imagine Erathostenes doing that legendary guitar solo after successfuly measuring the Earth’s circumference.
I am constantly surprised, this is simple elementary level stuff, how does anyone not know this?
Tbh, I never actually thought of how we could see Venus.
I'm not an astronomy hobbyist, so a lot of what Dave talked about in this video was new to me.
Super interesting stuff, for sure, though.
Well, you first need to pass kindergarten to get into elementary school...
They choose not to know it.
“When you observe them , in focus….”
Knowing that Flerfers would watch this the addition of ‘in focus’ has to be in there. As most of us have seen what they do with this suggestion.
That’s right; post videos of what’s clearly out of focus images of various celestial objects as a gotcha.
I thought that was the "dancing aether" setting on the Nikon P series magic cameras...??? 🙃🌎⚓
Long story short kids.... dont skip school lessons. They are KEY
Eh. The state of public schools is in such disarray that I'm unsurprised that there are flerfers who've managed to graduate high school.
"According to my prediction, the stars would be like this" -- said no flat earther ever
Less than a minute into the video, I can say that the very fact that we have a model that can be used to predict _exactly_ when and where they will be visible shows their claim to be absolutely absurd. Add to that the fact that they have no such predictive ability and, well... does anything more need to be said?
I also wonder how they can still be a flerf when we are able to predict hundreds of celestial events while they can't even predict the upcoming sunset/sunrise.
The flat earthers also don’t believe in gravity or space, so what is our earth sitting on then? Does this substance go on forever being that there’s no gravity? It’s absolutely absurd and makes no sense whatsoever. Somebody explain this one thing please?!
This is one of the questions that flerfs simply ignore. Other are ‘what causes the tides” or “explain lunar eclipses”.
They're not allowed to ask those kinds of questions. Their priesthood won't allow it
It's solid turtles, all the way down.
Occasionally they claim that the earth is a flat disk that's is accelerating upward, though they never explain what's accelerating it, how fast it's going, what it's traveling through, or how the evidence they have for any of this
@@incognitoburrito6020 the problem is that this can be debunked in a blink of an eye if you are willing to.
- lets say that light speed limit is not a case (whilst FEs claim that there is much lower) then speed light barrier argument cannot be used
- the gravity is acceleration thing (not el mag buoyancy magic)
what is needed to do
- take anything solid - i.e brick
- take high precision scales (like very precise)
- go to Iceland and measure weight
- go to Congo (Kenya, Uganda, Somalia) and measure weight
-do same for Bangladesh and Mt. Everest Base camp (peak will be better, but lets keep it simple)
If g is acceleration of plate, that in 1day (86400s) we can say, that Congo (Kenya, Uganda, Somalia - whatever near the equator place used) is 204 millions of metres behind Iceland point (pole to equator difference of G-centrifugal force 0.034m/s^2 I used 80% of it - if I put here wrong numbers, use good ones). Same principle used for Bangladesh/Nepal thing will make Mt. Everest area the deepest most known trench in flatland - but nobody knows it, because pancake was thorn apart and all fell off it.
I don't want to diss anyone, as I really do enjoy most of all of the creators who make flat earth debunking vids...but I have to say that Dave's videos are soooo much more educational, and thus more interesting than anyone else. He's really been crushing it lately.
Yes, he’s managed to use a dangerously inaccurate misinformation spreading turn into very interesting educational videos while debunking. You both enjoy the debunk part, but ultimately learn little new aspects too.
Hear, hear! An education and a debunking!
I've watched SciManDan in the past and a few Creaky videos more recently, but I do appreciate the less hyperbolic, less angry style we have here on this channel.
But I do have to say the dog is annoying me. I'm not anti dog, even if I'm more of a cat person, but that pupper seems to be stuck up his arse all the time. Cue all the people dragging me for saying anything about the pup. If I want cute animals, I'll watch a cute animal video, not a flerf debunking one.
@@NorthernSeaWitchI'm the other a-hole. I love pets, and I'm glad Rusty is happy, but I could stand to see him less often.
Y'all may commence my requisite verbal thrashing now. 🙉
@@NorthernSeaWitch It's not just the better bedside manner, he provides full explanations with source where a lot of Dan's rebuttals are simply naked claims where you would have to dive in on your own to find out where that was sourced.
If the earth was flat, you would see the sun from everywhere.
Because they are between the Earth and the Sun...? Why are 3 dimension so hard for them to comprehend? It's like when they say you shouldn't see the Moon during the day.
I love their stupid little 'the sun and moon are on opposite sides' claims because then the moon will *only* be visible at night...and it's clearly not lol.
Very good! And now I have a new Astronomy app! Thank you very much! Love your content!
So, let me get this straight. Flerfs claim you can't look outside the Earth (at other planets and stars) to determine what the shape of the Earth is. Yet are trying to use other planets to determine the shape of the Earth?
yes, don't use logic, that's how the globetard gets you
Yup. They cant hold more than one thought at a time, thus they can never see their contradictions. It's the same thing for how the sunlight has limited range, but stuff further away from the Earth than the sun that is also emitting light...does not have the same limitation.
That is their position.
Yeah, definitely don't hold your breath. It's been shown that holding your breath while waiting for an honest and scientifically accurate answer from a flat earther has a statistically higher chance of turning you into a flat earther than all of their "arguments" combined. Excessive laughter and blunt force head trauma from facepalming after hearing arguments also pose a high risk.
LOL😂
The poor flerfs are petrified by the prospect of the final experiment. Have you got your gear together yet?
@@profphilbell2075 Not completely yet, figured I'd wait and hear potential excuses so I know what best to take to debunk them 🤣
@@DaveMcKeegana good old reliable camera and tripod is enough to debunk the flat-earth, but i guess they enjoy to live in their blissfull ignorance smh. 🙄
@@DaveMcKeegan What sort of equipment do you need to take to keep the cameras and other electronic kit from freezing up or having the batteries drain prematurely?
Frankly, if you get the time, I'd be interested to see a video where you talk through all of the gear you're planning to take to Antarctica.
@@Green_Tea_Coffee The camera is black so the heat from a 24 hour should prevent that from freezing 😉
The bigger issue I've read about is humidity when taking the camera back into the tent - but I'm already thinking about doing a video nearer to the time to explain the plan for everything I'm taking
@@DaveMcKeegandon't waste your time going Antartica, it won't change their minds, these are the same people that told me meteor showers are "angels fighting"
Flerf heads exploding in 3D.
These advanced computer tools showing and predicting the heliocentric model to a high degree of observable accuracy are admittedly truly impressive but can they really match up to the awesome power of a deluded flerfer in his garage armed with a globe, a torch, a 12" ruler and a ping pong ball on a stick?
You have a point.
The top gun clip clip killed me. Well done.
It's bonkers that any of this has to be explained to adults in 2024.
I have always wondered why if flat earthers are so sure they are right then why don't they make a software that works to show how the flat earth model works and predicts the locations of sky objects like stelarium and sandbox universe do with absolute accuracy.
Because the one flerfs to pass kindergarten are the grifters at the top.
Simple. They don't know how. They're too busy huffing glue.
I just see those flat Earth people as "spatially challenged."
Flattards can't even think in 2D. In 3D it gets even worse for them.
Came for the debunking, stayed for the learning. Your videos are always so informative. Such a cool way to learn about the universe. And other topics you cover.
Venus is bright enough that it can be seen in daylight. You have to know where to look, and it's just a white speck, but visible to the naked eye.
And with an incredible light-catching telescope, you can get some ridiculous day time images of the planet. It’s unreal.
Honestly I can't even wrap my head around people seeing only spheres in the sky and concluding that the Earth therefor must NOT be a sphere.
their argument is that you don't know that the things in the sky are like earth. once you establish that the earth is a sphere, then you can use the appearance and movement of celestial objects to establish that the earth is just another planet in orbit around the sun.
@@johnqpublic7608 I guess that's kind of a good point that if you don't see the Earth as "just another planet" you wouldn't draw parallels to other planets.
problem is that they do not see anything in a sky as a sphere, even Sun and Moon are pronounced as dot lights by some and super great zoom on their (put here any device they use) is way less than 200x and they see only shaking dot lights (what confuses me is claiming that 120x zoom used on ship will bring it back, but never used to observe stars whilst 20x-100x is enough to see planets)
I thought they didn't even think anything existed beyond the Earth.
I would genuinely like to see ANY flat earth model
Look at "Flat Out" videos. He had a flat earth model... but she ate his flat earth map.
@@awattFirstly, who's "she" and how hungry she was to eat it? And secondly, it's definetly a very flawed model.
@@adryanclay Don't be sexist: she wasn't flawed, she only had a less marketable appeal!
You can find more details on Flat Out's video 34. FLAT EARTH - Flat Earth Model Revealed!
1) The model isn't wrong, flerfs just don't (want to) understand it.
2) Even if the model was wrong about this, that only means it's wrong about this one thing. Proving one thing wrong does not say sweet f/a about another thing.
during a total eclipse I experienced if I recall correctly (2017).. planets (Venus? and Jupiter) became visible because the glare from the atmosphere (in the local area) was greatly reduced during totality. Very surreal actually.
That was absolutely the case in the eclipse this spring. It was amazing!
And totally predicted by the heliocentric/globe model. Although I didn't realize that ahead of time, I just saw them show up and was blown away!
Darn, I did not think to look in 2017
I experienced that one as well. Went to the ideal location in Northern Georgia. A brief, simple experience, but certainly more surreal than I initially anticipated.
More globe earth propaganda, the earth is CAT SHAPED!
NASA went to the Mouse, back in 1969.
From there, they took pictures of the Cat :) .
"Can't think in 3D. Won't think in 3D."
too high surplus of words - "never think" is enough to describe it
Fairly recently, I had a Flat Earther parrot the "if the Earth is going through all these motions, then why can't we feel them?" statement. I did the math and showed - with all the formulas and figures - how much force the Earth's rotation would have on a person with a specific weight. He kept saying "your numbers", but it was the physics and the math. I asked him to figure out how much force we would feel with the Earth's orbit around the Sun and the Sun's orbit around the galaxy's center. He never did.
Flat Earthers base their beliefs on their guesses and feelings based on what they are taught by their cult leaders. They simply don't do the math or, as shown in this video, the geometry for their claims. If a con artist in their cult tells them something that aligns with their cult's teachings, they accept it. If their cult or its teachings is called into questions, the vast majority of Flat Earthers will have a fit (refer to the "Final Experiment"). Flat Earthers never test their claims. As long as they "feel" their claims are correct, they will believe their claims are correct.
They don't do the math because it involves more than counting on their fingers and toes and likely numbers with 3+ digits in either direction and those are *terrifying*! Just, just, just look at it! 1.0x10^-14 torr! Such a big negative number! Or spinning at 1000mph on the equator! So fast! AAAAHHHH!!!!
Yeah you really cant approach it with numbers.
Maybe ask them why they feel stationary when driving a car? The answer is that the earth is like the inside of a car; its an inertial reference frame. We dont feel it because we're moving with it, not against it.
@@deadturret4049 they don't understand Thing A relative to Thing B lol. If they did, they wouldn't be flerfs. They also don't understand scale or how to think in 3D. Being able to do any one of those prevents flerfdom.
You can see both very high in the sky during a solar eclipse!
As a resident of the Southern Hemisphere, thank you for mentioning that the sky appears different from here. A lot of people either don’t know this or, if they do, don’t give it much thought. ❤
The difference in the night sky is something that I find takes a little getting used to when you swap hemispheres. It’s a little like trying to figure out how to drive on the other side of the road; it’s so similar, but also not and in a very disconcerting way.
@@bigtbongosbarbarakapernic
why would anyone read ancient texts? we already know the bible is wrong. what other ancient texts do you suggest?
@@johnqpublic7608 Not sure if they deleted their comment or if the TH-cam filter claimed it, but I’ve noticed that appeals to antiquity are surprisingly common arguments by flerfs.
I think I figured out the two primary motivations though.
1. They think they have to say the ancients were right in order to validate their religious text of choice.
2. They think that ancient people could only figure out simple things and if something is “simple”, it must be right.
I cannot imagine Australia seeing night sky while driving other side of a road I am used to. The worst nightmare. :D
(do not mix wit Austria - it is what I am used to)
It would be cool if you also did discussions on things like terraforming planets, conditions of newly discovered planets and what the planets/moons might be like that they think are habitable or could be made habitable.
I've actually managed to spot Jupiter during the day in the sky with my bare eyes using stellarium because it was on the opposite side of the sky, but it took a lot of time and scanning the sky!
Venus is fun to spot in daytime sky!
@@RideAcrossTheRiver Wow, I've never spotted Venus during the day because I thought it was too close to the sun to even try! That's an achievement!
We don't just use stellarium to see where and when objects will be visible in the night sky; we link it to our mounts via USB and it will point our scopes EXACTLY to that object.
THAT'S how precise it is!
I would like to hear a flat earther explain why the sky goes black when recording a high altitude balloon ascending during the day
I want to know why no flerfers have ever launched high-altitude balloons to do their own tests and gather their own footage. After all, it's something that's been done by at least a half-dozen TH-camrs and a number of high school science clubs.
@@Green_Tea_Coffee true. Also I found a playlist of tons of those. I’d say there’s hundreds of videos honestly
@@DonPusateri It's awesome how many videos there are here on YT of people sending balloons up to the edge of space and recording it.
Yet not a single flerfer has managed to duplicate it. I guess they'd have to leave their basements to do that.
@@Green_Tea_Coffeeone did! A polish rapper. He then vanished from the internet for a few months before popping back in with an apology for ever being a flat earther lol
@@5peciesunkn0wn Ha! That's awesome. Good for him for having the wherewithal to do an experiment, and to follow where the data lead him.
The people in charge of keeping the flat earth a secret are freakin' really good at their jobs. The level of work it must've taken to meticulously work out how a heliocentric model of our solar system would work - proactively and retroactively coordinate the corresponding locations of celestial bodies for each day by mathematically predicting their cycles, movements and phases, relative to Earth - rendering this all out using CGI (I'll assume, since that's the usual go-to) and then (in the ultimate act of hubris) releasing all that information in a series of publicly available tools and archives for anyone to scrutinize - is all just insane. I can't really figure out why they went to all the trouble. Just admitting the earth is flat would've been WAY easier, I assume.
IT would , but then they would have to admit sun is local too. Obviously it’s not a nuclear fusion fire, so what is it.
That’s a burning question they not ready to answer
@@Globeisahoaxx "burning" question... good one.
I'm tempted to ask what's so "obvious" about the sun that you know it can't be fueled by fusion but I can't be bothered to bang my own head against a wall for however long it would take to give up on trying to point out objective reality. For the record, though: this strategy of saying vaguely intellectual sounding things while trolling comment sections of "globe" videos is probably the best way to go about earning some credibility for your cause. Good luck.
@@Globeisahoaxx "they would have to admit sun is local too"
Please define "local". Can you prove the sun is "local"? Can you demonstrate how to calculate the width of the "local" sun and its distance from the surface of flat earth?
@@Globeisahoaxx
Get a clue!
@@S14N9LS nuclear fusion fire would burn everything to the ground and life would not exist
I saw a post by airplane pilot explaining on IRS navigation system. This system will never work on flat earth.
I tried explaining the INS and IRS systems to flerfs.
Some have attempted to outright deny the functionality of those systems.
But pilots are all part of the CONSPIRACEEEE!!! 😂
A simple 2D diagram shows how Venus & Mercury are visible from Earth, which is exactly why flerfs don't understand.
When Venus is high in the sky, it is usually Jupiter. I have seen more than one flat-earther video where Jupiter was mistaken for Venus due to it's brightness.
The fact we even have to make videos that debunk flat earth is ridiculous these days.
I confirm as an astronomy student I used stellarium to check my sextant observations of saturn over several months of weekly observations.
They matched.
The globe model is accurate.
Moving pictures or not, no matter how much you dumb it down, you'll never be able to dumb it down enough for a flerfer to understand. Their idiocy is willful. They refuse to learn because their faith (belief in the Christian god) is on the line.
It's another Rusty the Springer Spaniel show, with some dude called Dave 😂
Ok, I had never given much thought to what the night sky would look like from the equator, but that time lapse video of the night sky from there was really cool!
I don't even watch your videos for the debunking. I just like learning about stuff and the way you explain things makes it easy for someone with no experience to understand
Did you learn how globe is a scam and solar system doesn’t exist
@@Globeisahoaxx
Grow up!
I am not a trained scientist even though i was earmarked for such as a boy in school.
I got sidetracked by classical music instead.
but even *I* am stunned by the ignorance of the flatties' claim here
I'm surprised flerfs even wonder about the planets' visibility in the first place as they don't believe space is real and all the stars are just projections anyway.
they have to cause we still DO see the planets in telescopes n stuff....
I think it's mostly them trying to prove globe model wrong with globe model presuppositions
@@michaelsorensen7567which is hilarious because the globe won't disprove the globe...
@@5peciesunkn0wn right, because so far as we can tell, globe model is accurate and correct.
But I do appreciate that they're not completely strawmanning globe theory and pretending it makes presuppositions that it doesn't, that are easier to disprove. So there's at least that.
@@michaelsorensen7567 99% of their arguments are just strawmanning.
Doggo getting lots of rubs today, has my full support
The atmospheric sounding taken by Russian landers provided another example atmospheric pressure that doesn't have a container.
The Final Experiment will likely not convert any flat earthers … we are already witnessing stunning levels of goalpost moving … but at least it seems we won’t have to deal with the equidistant azimuthal map that much anymore. They will all just “not have a model”.
It is fun to see how desperate it has made them.
Fun fact! This is how the modern Heliocentric model was created. The smartest minds in Europe stared at the sky and charted the planets, trying to model a geocentric solar system. As measurements got more accurate, the models made less and less sense. Until one guy said, “Hey! I put the sun in the middle and it worked out nearly perfectly!” And then another guy said “Hey! I did the same, but made the orbits ovals and now it’s perfect!”
You can go back and look at the horrible, broken, inexplicable complexity that was the leading model of the solar system (“universe”) for a long time. The fact that the motions of the planets specifically don’t work unless the sun is in the middle is why we learned this fact.
Ssssh, they all pretend Geocentric = Flat.
Aaand there he goes again...
@@Katy_JonesI've begun reporting him and any flerfs that spam the same stupid three sentence BS across a hundred comments as spam lol
@@Mike-zu8cp Sure, like the fact that the earth is a globe and orbits the sun. You aren't man enough to admit that fact, so you're rather embarrass yourself.
"Alas that's gonna be it...", calmly said after clearly explaining that the globe model is a rather astonishingly accurate model, and as equaly easy to falsify, were it not.
Flat Earthers could easily find this out for themselves, they just don't want to
But instead they make things up like little children.
@@Mike-zu8cpEven for flerfs, this is pretty pathetic. You’re just gonna lie about definitions to say one thing actually means something else?
@@Mike-zu8cp Grow up Mike, find a hobby, make some friends, touch grass.
There is no flat earth sandbox because they have no model.
I think the cat used their sandbox, that's why they are so angry.
Yeah, but if they don't ever actually present a model, then they don't have to worry about defending it when it's scrutinized for whether it works or not for things like astronomy or road trips!
... was this an ad for those programs because I think I'm going to purchase them now :D
Stellarium is free! Ubiverse sandbox is great, but I'd recommend Space Engine instead. It is like universe sandbox, except the whole universe and you can do everything like that there too, only more advances and possibilities.
Dave... How dare you making clear and easy to understand explanations to flerfs??
And worse : to back it up with facts...
So unfair...
🤣🤣🤣