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The earth travels around the sun, at a speed of 107000 km/hr. Any object that is dropped above ground, from a place that is facing the direction of earth's path (front), will land faster than one dropped from a place at the back of the earth.
@@gontlemanggeneral-segolodi5222 Acording to what physics and math? Can you give me your calculation that predicts what you claim?, so we can check with reality? According the heliocentric model real physics tells that the earth is in free fall around the sun. So the only change in acceleration comes from the tidal forces of the sun (max 0.000 000 505 m/s²) and the moon (max 0.000 001 128 m/s²), which are very small compared to earths gravity (mean 9.80665 m/s²) and can be neglected in practice. And you know what physics predicts for the rotating earth? That the centrifugal acceleration makes things lighter approaching the equator. So the effective acceleration of falling bodies should depend on the latitude on the globe model. If this prediction of a rotating globe comports exactly with experiment and contradicts the flat earth prediction of constant acceleration everywhere (or do you have a physical explanation and math model for flat earth that predicts the same?), than this is evidence for the globe and falsifies flat earth. Guess what. The effective acceleration measured in reality depends on latitude exactly as predicted for a globe of radius 6,371 km, Mass of 5.972168e24 kg and rotation period of 0.99726968 days. => The earth is not flat and stationary.
Just as easy debunk is my military service. 1) I used gyro compass to find rotational north for artillery. 2) I calculated the compensation for the coreolis effect for artillery. 3) I live at the coast of Sweden and have seen 100,000+ big ships disappear bottom up over large distance of water. 4) I can use GPS in the middle of the ocean 5) I have seen a sunset.
Radar also destroys flat earth. The very fact that it has pretty much the same range as the human eye is ignored by flattars, The fact that Naval Gunnery needed a foreword spotter to locate and determine accuracy also destroys them. Guns have a longer range than radar in most cases
Agree. As a leisure sailor it's also more than obvious. Sailing at nighttime along the german coast which is all lowlands and seeing lighthouses suddenly appear and disappear on the horizon. A quick look at on the charts and I immediately know how far away and how high they are. And it's not refraction, the lights are so strong, they don't just gently appear, one minute they are not there, and then there are there. During daytime the same with windparks. basic binoculars let you see wind turbines seemingly churning water even though they are 120m in height. Ships over the horizon... sure, same amount! thousands. My Radar and VHF range... obvious...
Surveyor here. i can assure everyone that there is no other group that wants the earth be flat more then Surveyors. It would make everything so much easier.
i can imagine so. instead of needing higher level algebra and trig, you could do basic geometry and algebra. i always enjoy watching a surveyor doing their job.
I work in GIS. I 100% agree. We even use flat coordinate systems because it’s way easier to run tools with. Even though, at larger scales, they become inaccurate. If the world was flat we wouldn’t have to contend with different coordinate systems and projections.
@popermen694 there is only one factual projection azimuthal equidistant projection a fe map. This video compares globe flights to azimuthal equidistant projection flights th-cam.com/video/kajiKy06bu0/w-d-xo.htmlsi=AbmSphLVTNSkar_t How can globe have a projection when it's not a factual map?
Spent 30 years as an engineering surveyor. Longest traverse I ever did was over 300 km for a pipeline survey. Absolutely had to correct for curvature on that one :)
My great uncle was the chief surveyor for the then-state-owned power company, and was responsible for surveying thousands of kilometres of transmission lines. We had some nice chats before he died. He had the best mental arithmetic tricks I've ever seen.
Hats off to you and your years of education and experience. However, all that means, in themind of a flat Earth enthusiast, you have just being bought out as part of the conspiracy by the globalists. I personally would encourage flat Earth people to become engineers or surveyors and try to use flat earth mathematics when designing their projects, if not for the potential for catastrophic failure and subsequent loss of life.
I'd wager there aren't many flat earth civil engineers either. I had a course on the basics of surveying in the third semester and we accounted for the curvature. At our rather small scale it were mere milimeter and centimeters but still, it was there.
yeah i dont think we would have civil engineers if they had to deal with more.... anything. i had some great conversations with some flat earth scaffolders... fun times. kept the clock ticking over i guess.
I have a fairly unique perspective as a licensed pilot, AND having used work on a survey field crew. I also helped with the drawing of the maps in ACAD. We absolutely 100% had to take the earth curve into account. Particularly when using GPS gear, and when surveying long distances. As a pilot i can confirm i have never once had to push the nose down to follow the curve of the earth. This is NOT because the earth is flat however. It is because wings will follow what ever pressure plane you are currently setup for. (i.e. power and trim) therefore regardless of being on a spherical (moslty) planet, the plane will travel at constant altitude above the mean sea level. Flers have absolutely no concept of even the most basic of physics and have become incapable of the basic reasoning required to gain it.
If you did have to push the nose down to compensate for the earth's curvature using the trim, would you even notice? It would only have to pitch "down" a complete 360 degrees once every circumnavigation of the globe.
But as a pilot, surely you must have had to bank constantly left or right when flying east or west and following a line of latitude, like all flat Earth maps require. 😉
@@PervertedThang Why would you follow a line of latitude when you can fly in a straight line the shortest one to where you are going. That's some kind of hill billy logic you got there.
I love how there are hundreds of industries like surveying whose science wouldnt work if the Earth were flat (not just NASA), and how most of them predate NASA (George Washington was a surveyor..) and it's still not enough for flat earthers to comprehend.
The best part is, the USSR did not bother exposing the American globe Earth lies. The USA and the USSR both agreed on keeping the secret. Same with China and India: they have regular military conflicts at their border, they want to one-up each other, both have a space program... yet none exposes the globe Earth lies of the other. What is more likely: all the rival governments agreed to keep a secret for centuries, or a globe Earth is a fact?
This isnt true, they would just use different techniques and science. Interestingly, the world would be a much simpler place if the earth were flat, things would be far easier. We would also be far more advanced, the shape of the earth holds us back in many ways, navigation has been a colossal pain because the earth is round, space exploration is massively more complex because the earth is round and spinning and moving around the sun.
@@probablynotmyname8521 Your comment is somewhat nonsensical because a flat Earth cannot exist. Gravity does not allow it. Navigation is not and was not a colossal pain, it was resolved tolerably well by the 1500s and because it was resolved by then, maritime trade then exploded.
@@ShizukuSeijiWeeeell, yeah, it could exist... If the laws of physics were completely different from what we have come to experience and determine as consistent and correct. Similar to how atoms with a lower atomic weight than hydrogen could be possible if the atomic nucleus were made up of different quantum states. But that's simply wishful thinking, and not acknowledging reality.😊😂
I've been a surveyor for 45 years. Only since the rise of social media have the flat-earthers become a thing. This is the first TH-cam video I've seen that actually refers to the most qualified experts on this subject - Land Surveyors. My whole life, whenever a flat earth argument came up (which was rare), I would say the earth is round (actually an ellipsoid of revolution, i.e. a slightly flattened sphere caused by the earths rotation), people would defer and accept that statement. Social media has developed this new cult with sh*t for brains, full of self importance.
Sorry wrong. Civilazations of old, knew the shape of the earth, long before social media was in diapers. Earth is motionless, just as it appears, and just as common sense tells us, and just as our everyday experience testifies. It is only mental gymnastics that suggests otherwise.
@@DAVID-io9nj given that they spent their lives watching things appear and disappear gradually over the horizon and understanding why, I would say there were no flat Earthers amongst them.
@@TK.D36I can see why you *used to* be a surveyor, when this video showed a surveying textbook explicitly depicting making calculations under the premise of mean sea level being a curved line.
I found that exact discrepancy on a surveying field trip when at college.... We had an undulating 1km area to survey with highly accurate theodolites, triangulating in 3 planes and found, as we got to the corners that our distances overlapped slightly... All four groups had the same 'error'... Our tutor helped us figure it out... It was a " duh, of course" moment.
I love teachers that sit back and let you make the simple mistake. Then try to subtly lead you back to the understanding. It's a fantastic way to learn. And you either get a great AHA moment or feel like an absolute legend for getting it. Even though it turns out it's just the next step in the training process.
@@snowcow1173 well that doesn't apply to anything that's dangerous, not just deadlifting. Imagine falling while climbing rocks because your instructor wanted you to learn for yourself. Imagine your driving instructor letting you crash at full speed to teach you the dangers of cars. lol
Flat earthers seems to actually believe that there is a real debate about the shape of the earth. They don't seem to understand that flat earthers are just entertainment for smarter people.
I find those with small minds to be sad, not entertaining. But that's just me. They are evidence humanity has failed to impart knowledge effectively and evolving is painfully slow.
👍 Amen simonboyd. I am a Marine Engineer with years previously in the U.S. Navy as an Operations Specialist responsible for maintaining ship's track plot on Nautical Charts as well as a Navigation Watch Officer on both yachts and civilian ships in my post Navy career so of course I have challenged flerfs on multiple occasions to try passing a U.S. Coastguard or British MCA Captain's License course exam Celestial Navigation module using flat earth. No surprise that there are no takers so far. ⚓🌴😎
As would anyone with a certificate to fly a Piper Cherokee, Cessna 172 or similar general aviation aircraft. Not to mention pilots flying trans continental and/or trans oceanic flights for commercial airlines... But, the flat earthers don't want to know about any of that, do they... It's like a religious belief for them. They also seem to think that CGI- and digital photography technology was at present day levels back when the Apollo 17 astronauts took the famous Blue Marble photograph in December 1972. Digital cameras weren't even a thing yet, and CGI was so rudimentary that the mere suggestion it had anything to do with the Blue Marble photograph, is utterly laughable. But, that doesn't seem to deter them either. They just keep on believing...
Celestial navigation does not work in a flat earth idea and celestial navigation has been used for many, many years with negligible error. But a flatly brain cannot grasp that either!
My brother is a civil engineer. When I was about 17, I spent a summer on a large build project. Part of my job was to hold the staff while he took a reading with the theodolite. He explained about how he had to allow for the curvature
I love the way that the surveyor phrased what he said in the next to last sentence of his comment: "it is a disappointing marriage of egotism and willful ignorance". So well said!
they don't consider math because their arguments begin and end with "it doesnt feel like im spinning on a ball. the horizon looks flat to me". then use personal incredulity to assert how "ridiculous" sounding space is and the earth being a ball "makes no sense". very sad really, I feel like such extreme conspiracies are a cry for help
@@BondiAV that is the essence of conspiracy theories in general, and flat earth is one of the most egregious. Think about it -- it's such a stupid, absurd belief that it will self-select for those *most* willing to disregard reality, which means a relative small and insular group that acts as an echo chamber where they can pat each other on the back and reinforce the idea that other people aren't as smart and perceptive as they are. Eric Dubay (a flat earther) has a video that basically exposes this about why flat earth "matters" -- and he *literally* makes it out to be a battle for the soul of the entire human race. Folding Ideas has an excellent video called "In Search of a Flat Earth" where he does a deep dive into flat earth and conspiracy culture that I highly recommend if you have the time. It's not about facts or evidence, it is 100% about how it makes the conspiracy theorist *feel.*
Asking "Why there are no Flat Earth Surveyors" is like asking why don't mirrors have people living inside them. Because it's simply impossible for either of them to exist.
@@rudolfquerstein6710 I'm imagining a course that teaches "flat earth surveying technique" where you start with the absolute basics, then start teaching them all the error-corrections and oops, there's curvature.
I used to be a land surveyor and I will tell you one thing. If we EVER brought back data and the civil engineering department decided that the 7 miles of line that we cut to install monuments for a construction project and all the money and time and work to gather the data points and elevations and control points we worked on just to have them not take into consideration the curvature of the earth……the company I worked for would have been probably sued and never ever received any more projects to bid on again. The thought is ludicrous. I’m so glad that you made a video depicting the fact of the Land Surveyors work. I have not surveyed in over 8 years and I have never become an actual licensed Surveyor in the United States, but I was a Rodman and an Instrument man for over 10 years and I am pretty positive that the Earth has not flattened out since then. I unfortunately got pretty sick and had to stop, but I can tell you I learned enormous amounts of information about geography and the land and in CT the Northing and Southing grid system they use and I couldn’t help myself to be curious about how the Flat Earth individual thinks. Once you get a grasp on Land Surveying there’s no way that any person with a brain could think the Earth is flat. But I still stick to my guns and believe that it truly is a mental illness and I really don’t think it can be cured.
Yeah a lot of people chalk up indoctrination and/or ignorance to mental illness. Mentally ill people can certainly be flat earthers but denying the earths curvature isn't mental illness. It's just indoctrination and cognitive bias.
Gravity surveys would have a lot more weird corrections. Correcting for the location on a Geoid is bad enough but if the earth has some disk or conic shape?
I agree with the mental illness totally. I believe it is a form of the inability to recognize true shapes and BASIC SENSORY distortions. The immense size of the earth is beyond their comprehension level; where distance equals gradual changes. That, it is hard to explain to their own senses what is going on outside what they can feel. Others, however knows the truth and are perpetrating the conspiracies to make money off those who they deem "believers"and vulnerable. That would make them "Charlatans". The lowest form of TH-cam bottom feeders. As for the Earth, It is Round, Curves, a Sphere, and a place of marvel to explore many scientific things on a daily basis. Being a Surveyor is a awesome job to have and it explains more that just the math of these questions but the actual daily proof in engineering marvels.
It's cognitive dissonance. It's what happens when new information conflicts with beliefs. I'm not sure that it is impossible to help a person to snap out of the cult mentality. But it is difficult.
As someone with two civil engineers in the family, I found this fascinating. Unfortunately I expect a flat earther to actually take a surveying course around the same time they get around to actually doing some celestial navigation. 😆
Unfortunately surveying is a bit of a grey term and anyone could call themselves a surveyor. Then you even get chartered surveyors (I think there may be 2 different bodies you can obtain chartered status from iirc) that have only gone through a shorter college course or apprenticeship. I think you can also do a one year course if you already have a bachelor’s degree. Unlike becoming a chartered engineer where the minimum qualification before experience was changed to a 4 (or 5 year degree course in Scotland) like a MEng. Then you get building surveyors and quantity surveyors. It may be that civil engineering surveyors require the same qualifications as the ICE chartered engineers I.e. an MEng or 4 year degree. In other words it wouldn’t surprise me if you could find someone who calls themselves a surveyor and thinks the earth is flat but has never touched a theodolite or other surveying instrument in their lives. Not that I can speak as I only briefly touched upon their use and used one during the general part of my engineering degree course.
It's amazing how many round earthers lie to defend a lie. Engineering problems faced when trying to build the London tunnel 31.5 miles long. Curve calculator says should be behind 660 feet of curve. Ordnance survey national grid reference system (bng) didn't work. They accounted for 20 cm per km due to the curvature of earth. Even by longitude and latitude by using spherical calculations they could be out by as much as 200 metres. As maps are flat the engineers trying use calculations of a spherical earth via a flat map. If this seems excessive than pop along to Greenwich and stand on the prime meridian, pulling out a Gps receiver it'll tell you your 102 metres to the east of the meridian because it uses a different mapping system to old paler maps Three different points where taken using three different coordinator system proven to be reliable. All three calculations contradicted curve on a flat map. This is from Ian visits. Com . Uk
I have been a licensed professional surveyor in the US for 50 years. I can tell you without a doubt, the earth is not flat. I have run differential levels for miles and then measured over those same miles with a total station (theodolite and electronic distance measure device combined). You have to take into consideration the curvature of the earth to correct for the zenith angles measured.
@@Simplygreatstuff Why can't you accept that a professional surveyor of 50 years understands the difference between curvature of the earth and local hills and valleys?
@@KeithMilner so how many people have to be in on the conspiracy, and to what end? there is no difference to anything, except some technical jobs, betwene a globe and a disc. there is no reason to want a globe over a disc or vica versa. so whats the point of the conspiracy?
As an amateur astronomer, i rely on the round and rotating earth every time I observe. My mounts, my star charts, my planisphere…none of it would work on a flat earth.
Nah, all us amateur astronomers are paid off by NASA And the cia made all the mounts And the fbi made the telescopes And the only camera that is safe from the dod is the p1000
You sir, are the creme de la crop when it comes to flat earth debunking, not only you have managed to bring out fresh arguments against already debunked flat earth videos, which made them fun to watch even if I had already watched them for the 4th or 5th time, but also in my opinion, your arguments against the flat earth are the best and better researched and backed up arguments of any flat earth debunker I can think of. Excellent work!
Agreed, unfortunately most flat earth debunkers end up just laughing and pointing fingers as the flerfers themselves, which just makes them no better than the flat earthers really
@@GummieI I disagree slightly here, because earth is such a well established fact that it’s in the flerts to provide evidence and when they don’t provide it and assert things without evidence it’s just fitting to dismiss their assertions without evidence, so I really don’t have a problem with debunkers that just point and laugh, but I do like sometimes for evidence to be presented anyways, hence why I like Dave here.
@@alejandrovallejo4330 Laughing and pointing fingers at others are NOT the same as dismissing their claims, it is straight up rude, and if anything only fosters the flerfers to believe in their false facts even more
@@GummieI it is dismissing their claims, it may be rude, but it is dismissing them. And yeah, they may get more into their beliefs, but they are a very small set of people and they won’t change their beliefs, regardless of what you show them, so it really makes no difference. But like I said, I do enjoy more the debunkers that are kinder and use real evidence, but I have no problem with those that point and laugh, although I’ve never seen a debunker that does only that, all I have seen do provide reasons why flerts are wrong.
You might also consider that VHF and UHF radio signals are often described as "line of sight" because the transmissions, unlike those of shortwave or HF, are not reflected back to earth by the ionosphere and even the most powerful signals go off into space when the earth curves away underneath. The radio horizon is somewhat greater than the visual horizon for technical reasons (antenna height, etc.), and there are things like tropospheric ducting and sporadic E propagation, but in general, the thumbnail rule is correct: line of sight. If the earth were flat, V/UHF signals could reach across the planet. They don't.
@@kahlzun That is a good point, but remember that flat earth frauds have been doing this a long time, and they would probably respond that long distance line of visual sight is blocked by dust, weather or elves. But you raise an interesting question of what the horizon should look like on a flat earth. It should never be level and "clean" because some mountains or clouds should always be visible. That's why I suggested VHF radio frequencies, which are not attenuated by weather or dust, unlike visual sight lines. Whether one watt or 1,500 watts, with a few exceptions, its always line of sight because of earth curvature.
@@Requiem4aDr3Am No, I'm sorry you're just simply wrong. There's places in Hollywood where you can't even see the Hollywood sign on the mountainside because of all the smog and moisture in the air from just a few miles let alone several hundred or thousand miles. This is 100 percent fact. Even if the earth was flat, you still would not be able to see infinitely far. Objectively. Also, once you get so far away from something, its angular resolution would prevent you from seeing it. This is just how the optics work in the human body. That's the same reason why you can't see a boat several miles away from you with the naked eye, but you can take a high zoom camera and bring it back into view... because you can not see infinitely far, even on a flat earth... now you can deny this fact if you want to. But it's extremely ignorant to hold that stance. 🙄
Fortunately, engineers in the US can no longer perform boundary surveying without a surveyor's license. Most of them didn't have the necessary education in boundary and legal principles to make proper decisions and usually tried to apply engineering methodology to boundary surveying which resulted in countless boundary problems that we'll be trying to deal with forever. They're restricted to design and topographic surveying now.
If that. I currently work in an engineering firm and only us survey techs will do the topo survey and process the data for a base map they can use for their design. All of the engineers I've worked with were only on a survey crew during an internship.
In my 24 years of land surveying, to become a RPLS (Registered Professional Land Surveyor) is more intense than that of the CEs (Civil Engineers) as the general task of surveying land requires an astute knowledge and familiarity of the types of evidence you will encounter to substantiate a decision upon a boundary in question. All documents pertaining to the timeline of the tract, from since its creation, must be given its gravity as each instance can have an affect on how the property line is perceived among pertinent parties. For each state there is a minimum requirement to meet the criteria of even being considered a RPLS. Whereas, one candidate must have the education associated with land surveying which is ascertained via the state's respective testing to achieve the credential (Calculative, Legal, and Practical). Also, you must have three registered surveyors vouch for you competency and sign a legal document claiming you have had the experience you are claiming.
I see plenty of boundary surveyors dck up mainly section corners. It's all theory and "prove me wrong". I'm eligible for both licenses but finding a potential second career trading securities as I stand around in the woods waiting for satellites to fix.
"All documents pertaining to the timeline of the tract, from since its creation, must be given its gravity as each instance can have an affect on how the property line is perceived among pertinent parties." Lol nobody pays for that. Just survey the legal description. More surveys, title searches, and attorneys will be paid for if somebody gets a stick up theirs. Only now with all the data one can keep track of on the same coordinate system it is no thing for me to see big overlaps of parcels that never used to get measured at the same time. But if each set of monuments matches its own legal world and you didn't put them there, what can you do? Disclaimers like "as monumented", "as occupied" are your friend.
As a civil engineer I did have to take surveying in college (40 plus years ago). I went to school in Ohio and the example of doing level 3 surveying (not taking into account curvature) were the small county roads where about every 10 miles they made the correction at an intersection. These never lined up across the road and had an offset. I think a lot of these intersections have been tweeked but you can still run into them occasionally.
As a chartered Civil Engineer I can confirm that we are part of a consp..... no wait Great video, and partially how I got into viewing how daft are flat earther videos. Years ago I stumbled into a discussion where one side was saying engineering drawings proved flat earth, and I felt compelled to jump in and point out it was in fact the opposite. The conversation (loons typing furiously in capital letters) soon turned to surveying and I used the vertical angle point you raise in your video. I was at Uni in the 90's and had a fresh off the press Third edition of Surveying for Engineers which was my companion for the first 2 years of my degree. I did a little surveying professionally, but mainly doing checks on site. At Uni I was taught the basics on a theodolite and progressed to NAl (New Automatic Level) and EDM (Electronic Distance Measure). When setting up stations for the first time we were asked that specific question why to stations set up 90 degrees to the horizontal had two different vertical angles to the level. You would be amazed at how little you need to move the instrument, about 10m, to pick up a difference on an EDM. Once I had pointed this out to the flefrs they saw the error of their ways and went on to have productive live....no wait :D PS Bit scary but this was 30 years ago so happy for any real surveyor to correct me :)
Of course, a FLERF will claim that ALL the surveyors have bought into the conspiracy 😞. I took a beginning survey course as part of my Engineering Geology degree. Since it was an introductory course, we were told we would not take into account the curvature of the earth as our survey distances were short - basically on campus. More advanced courses would take curvature into account, but we weren't training to be surveyors, we were just being introduced to survey concepts and how the instruments. work. That was 40 years ago and I still remember this course and how much I enjoyed being a nerd on campus surveying around the University. Since our campus was at the base of a mountain, we also discussed how some early surveys were wrong because of the use of plumb bobs, which were used to level early survey equipment, would be off a bit while surveying in mountainous areas due to gravity - yet another FLERF debunk. Say hi to Rusty!
So all they have to do is have 1 flat earther join up and secretly record the part where they tell everyone they know the world is flat but they have to tell everyone that it is round or else they cant graduate.
@@Iamimgainary_sqrt-1_i "I love the idea of a few thousand people knowing about it and all of them are keeping it a secret an noone ever talks about it by accident." This is the paradox that destroys every single conspiracy theory from FE to moon landings to chemtrails to 9/11 to anti-vaxx to alien contact and all the rest. Each of them requires such a vast number of people to hold to the secret that we know, empirically that would be impossible.
I live near a CEGEP, between high school and university, and it have a civil engineering course. Every year, there are teams of students practising in the neighbourhood. The area they cover is large enough for the curvature to be notable. They must have measured it within 0.001mm.
The Great Trigonometric Survey of India was so accurate that not only did it show the Earth is curved, but how much that curvature (actually closer to an oblate spheroid) deviated from a perfect sphere. I live within driving distance of Pike's Peak in Colorado, USA, and I have done angle measurements of distant objects compared to the celestial horizon. All distant objects appear lower than they should if Earth were flat. While it's hard to see Earth's curvature if you expect it to be in the orientation of a steering wheel, it's easy to see if you look for it in the orientation of a bicycle wheel.
You're in Colorado? That's one of our Conspiracy Headquarters. You can promote flat earth, underground cities, sky squares, and mole people. Also; I think you can get high there. Dude; loosen up, smoke some weed, and binge some X Files...I can't even pronounce the word "Trigonometric" in my head.
Not too many flat Earther jokes are funny, but I think this one's pretty good. Flat Earther dies, goes to Heaven, meets God. Flat Earther: "The Earth really is flat, isn't it?" God: "No, it's a globe, just as the scientists say." Flat Earther: "Wow, I didn't know the conspiracy went _this deep!"_
This is actually a good reminder that the best way to deal with these people is to utterly ignore them. Something has broken in them. They cannot and do not want to trust authority. They don’t want the truth.
@@Awesomes007 yeah honestly most of these people started out with a deep distrust of the government and have let that leak into the rest of their beliefs about the world. I had a conversation with my grilfriend's cousin about it. I told him that the concept of a flat earth was so easily proved wrong, and that if there is any conspiracy it is, "why are people promoting a theory to distract people who don't trust the government?" That got him thinking, so in my opinion that is the only way to convince them. Show them the proof and then go, "why are they trying to trick you into focusing on something that makes everyone around you think you are crazy or stupid?"
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@@Awesomes007 it's not about authority, who lies all the time. It's about not be able to compute 2 cells together, the logic is completely broken. Mostly, because people actually went to school, where their logic is suppressed in exchange for obedience. When these schooled people finally get out and stop trusting authority, all they have left is broken brain without the ability of critical thinking, always looking for someone to follow. Schools became the tool of making stupid people. Those who actually have capable parents and teachers who promote self reflection and self evaluation, actually are not sensitive neither to the authority's lies neither to the dumb unlogical theory like FET.
@@Awesomes007 reminded of Jesus's parable of the rich man and Lazarus. The rich man asked to have Lazarus sent back to warn his family. Abraham replied that they have Abraham and the prophets and if they don't believe what they already have, a dead man rising won't convince them.
I worked on a land surveying team in the 90s. Accuracy is everything. That’s why GPS could not be used directly, it was too fuzzy. Being 1cm off at one corner of a property line gets hugely magnified if the area being surveyed is large at all. Edit: Apparently GPS is used now in surveying, mea culpa.
according to the surveyor GPS is so accurate now, when i had my property surveyed last year, they only used GPS to set markers on the side of the mountain.
There is actually new equipment that is rapidly replacing the more traditional theodolite that uses LIDAR and the extremely accurate GPS data now available. Known as a 'Total Station' it can do with one surveyor/operator in a single day what up until very recently required a team to do over multiple days.
GPS is the standard these days, unless you're in a dense urban area with skyscrapers blocking the equipment from satellite signals. I'm at a 300+ acre park, and we're accurate to .01 feet at any location using a Total Station for both directions - as-built and topos, and for setting construction staking.
There are surveying poles (donno how they are actually called), that accumulate positional data from multiple satellite navigation systems (like GPS, GLONAS, Galileo, BeiDou, etc) at the same time. This allows VERY precise surveying. On top of that, some of them use local phone towers or dedicated radio towers. Also tilt compensation and so on. Our property got surveyed by a tool with accuracy under 0,125m³ (or Hz 3 mm + 0.5 ppm / V 5 mm + 0.5 ppm), and it's from ~6 years ago.
I navigated ships in the Navy. Ships follow curved paths when crossing oceans because the Earth is curved. Now I'm a professional engineer. Of course that means I had to take classes in surveying. Of course surveyors take curvature into account.
You don’t even have to be part of the Navy. Just taking part in an Boy Scout Orienteering course is enough. These fools would be the ones that would get themselves lost.
@@jackk1583 since I have worked as a navigator and as a surveyor and both account for curvature then the surface of the Earth is curved. Pilots do as well according to the pilots who have commented here.
I used to work at a private charter company. I never got my license but I have alot of right seat time and know how to operate a few planes very well. Cessna 152,172, 182RG and the hot rod 210. Also the Beechcraft Baron, the King Air C90, E90, F90 and 200. I put the F90 into a parabolic arc where we all floated inside the plane for a few seconds. I also know how to fly by instruments only. There’s so many things that disprove FE just in airplane instruments. The main ones being the gyroscopes. How about that FE guy named Bob that used a laser gyroscope to prove the earth didn’t rotate but instead it showed that the earth rotates at 15 degrees per hour. 15 degrees x 24 (hours) = 360 degrees. He didn’t know he was being recorded and he said to another guy that if this got out, it would look really bad for them. They are a bunch of charlatans IMO if they are making money off of people. That gyroscope cost them around $20,000 too. Read up on how they work and you will hopefully understand.
I'm a geodetic trained surveyor from the military and now I'm a licensed land surveyor in Virginia of course a construction site would not need to adjust for curvature but let me assure you you can't cover any distance at all without correcting for curvature or your survey won't close.
I'm Virginia based as well. I worked as a Surveying Technician along with State Licensed Surveyors. I never got to take part in any Geodetic Surveys, mostly just construction, topos, and property surveys. I would like to learn more about Geodetic Surveying, can you recommend semi-quick way that would deepen my knowledge of Geodetics?
I would suggest reading up on Everest (yes, the mountain is named after him). He was engaged to survey the Indian subcontinent for the British Empire in the 1800s. His measurements were remarkably accurate and we can still read his notebooks today. And you can quite literally calculate the curvature of the Earth from his measurements.
Curiously Everest didn’t like having the mountain named after him because he considered it disrespectful to the Indians who already had a name for it. Also the purpose of the survey was to get a better measurement of earth curvature.
Fun fact: Sir George Everest objected to having a mountain named after him on on the grounds that the local people would find it difficult to pronounce, and it could not easily be written in Hindi. But yes, Everest (and a shoutout to his French counterpart Delambre who did much the same thing independently) calculated the difference between the radius of the Earth at the pole and that at the equator. Everest's estimate of the relative difference was 1/300.8. This is remarkably close to the modern figure which is around 1/298.257. There is a limit on what you can measure, because at this level of precision, the Earth isn't a perfect spheroid any more due to mountains and stuff. So to get more precision, we typically define an artificial reference spheroid, and then take measurements relative to that.
@@dunningkruger-o1x yes. This was a part of solving the longitude problem. They set a very practice clock at one end of the Himalayan Mountains then they surveyed the distance across it then measured how much of a difference there was between the time of noon at one end and the time at noon at the other end. Knowing the distance traveled + the time offset allows you to calculate the curvature of the earth.
@@qtheplatypus so assuming you got the story right, typos and all (practice vs precise) .. the difference in time == circumference. Sounds like a leap in logic - citation?
@@dunningkruger-o1x as you move east sun reaches high noon earlier relative to your starting point. 360 degrees of longitude = 24 hours of time offset. So 1 hour of time offset = 15 degrees of longitude. Then by measuring the chord distance between the start and end and using the clocks to measure the degree of longitude difference you can calculate the circumference of the earth.
Granted, I taught school and am not a surveyor but I would not call the formulas complex math in the least. If I recall, they drilled the Chunnel from both Dover and Calais to meet in the middle. And they did! Here is survey work which worked at scale needed to get curvature compensations right.
@@victorfinberg8595and to "compensate for the curve" one only has to use a BUBBLE LEVEL. No calculations required! The Flerfs don't even understand that simple concept.
These are flat-Earthers we're talking about. For them, even right-angle trigonometry would often be complex math. If there's even a single flat-Earther who sees general triangle trigonometry as simple (and actually understands it) then I'd be very surprised.
Of course a *real* flat-earther would argue that: 1. They made the Chunnel curved as part of a world-wide, millennia-long, no-rational-reason conspiracy 2. It's not actually curved because "I'm looking at it from my car or in this photos" 3. Both
This channel is so good. Some of the most persuasive and most non-confrontational debunks I've ever seen on the platform. Probably among the best for actual deradicalization of flat earthers. I hope many of them watch and take your arguments to heart.
"take your arguments to heart." FE isn't about truth or shapes. It's about them and their feelings of inferiority. They "learn" by-rote all their garbage to trick slow people into thinking they are smart. They won't give that up because of an argument they cannot debunk. They are already in denial.
A poignant note from the travelcroc web page which should challenge flat earthers: "Can you see Cuba from Key West with binoculars? The fact that Cuba is only 90 miles away from Key West makes people sure that they could see Cuba as long as they had a high-powered telescope. But the problem is not in your eyesight or your tools. The problem is that Cuba is below the horizon as the earth curves. Every now and then people claim that they managed to see Havana’s city lights at night, but they have failed to prove their claim."
Uh oh! Our secret’s out! I was a partner in a land surveying firm for 13 years in the state of Tennessee, USA. I started out working as a professional draftsman and instrument-man (I sat up and operated the theodolite). It’s true that land surveying is remarkably accurate. We typically aimed for a thousandth of an inch tolerance in our traverses and other measurements. It’s also true that while surveying the curvature of the Earth was not a major concern most of the time. The reason is, curvature would typically only come into play when we were surveying something like a large urban building complex requiring extreme accuracy in measure and layout or when surveying a very large plot of land (such as a farm of several hundred acres). Most land surveying (at least where I worked) amounts to relatively small plots of land, small enough so the Earth’s curvature doesn’t factor in that much. In those smaller surveys, if you’re reducing your traverse to horizontal and averaging any accumulated error throughout the traverse then the Earth’s curvature is taken care of in those calculations. Having said all that, I can attest that the Earth is most definitely, beyond any reasonable doubt, NOT FLAT. The Earth we live on, and the one I surveyed, is a big beautiful sphere! Or oblate spheroid to be more precise. It’s round. The Earth has been round for as long as people have walked it’s surface, sailed its oceans, flown through, and orbited above, its atmosphere. And it’ll likely remain round no matter how many misguided folks choose to believe it’s flat.
You said it. For most people and most local practical problems, we can regard the Earth as being flat. But it's equally obviously not flat, when it comes to navigation, map making, astrononmy, or simply accurately picturing the Universe as a whole.
FAKE GLOBE: The video CONVEX EARTH THE DOCUMENTARY (on the Convex Earth youtube channel) has 7 types of scientific field experiments that prove the total ABSENCE of curvature on the surface of oceans, dams and large lakes. That's enough, it's conclusive, without curvature the globe and geoid shapes are impossible. With this conclusion, hundreds of questions arise, but obviously no unanswered question will create curvature on Earth. The globe shape is embedded in the world education system so that there is no room for questioning. But how could the Earth be a globe if there is no curvature? Engineering and physics faculties, for example, present calculations that start from the accepted premise of a globe, such as Eratosthenes' experiment, or images from space agencies that we have no way of going into space to redo and check. There is NO scientific field experiment in academic science that proves the supposed curvature of the Earth for scientists, researchers, professors and students to redo and check. We only find theories or explanations that start from the accepted premise of being a globe, as Eratothenes did. There are opinions and criticisms about the experiments in the Convex Earth Documentary, but no one in the world has managed to prove the supposed curvature of the Earth by reproducing the experiments. Yes, world leaders know that the Earth is not a globe, but they have no interest in making it known to the public. The technical data of the experiments can be found on the Convex Earth channel on youtube under the title: CONVEX EARTH TECHNICAL DATA
9:38 It's worth pointing out that the Ordnance Survey was founded the year after the completion of the Anglo-French Survey (1784-1790) which literally measured the curvature of the Earth (with surveying equipment). The best bit is that the AFS published its data, calculations and conclusions, and that document is available online for free. That means anyone could theoretically refute it if they wanted. I seriously doubt any flat earther is going to attempt that, but you never know...
Much the same way they continue to ignore the many pictures of the earth available online taken during the Apollo missions. It doesn't validate their claims, so they ignore it. Willful Ignorance and Self-Deception is strong with the weak minded ...
Why are there no "flat earth" Surveyors or Sailors? Because we either use or rely on the fact that the Earth is a sphere. Flat earth idiocy would be fatal in either of those two activities. PS: I am a retired Surveyor/Cost/Project Manager and still (at 77) a regular sailor.
Disregarding the flat-earth V globe-earth aspect, these are always such educational videos. I'm a "globe-tard", but I still watch these because I come away with some new bit -- or bits -- of information that I didn't have.
That's probably true for all the people who love learning and knowledge itself. I think argument is a great way to increase one's understanding. I used to believe in the globe, and now I utterly know, through personal testing of arguments, that it's a globe.
Wrong ideas are useful in the sense that through disproving them you have to apply knowledge in an educational way. That's also why a lot of conspiracy theories get used in education as examples because in figuring out how they're wrong you learn a lot about the subject itself.
I'm from Saskatchewan, Canada. The initial surveyors measured fields into sections which are 1 mile square and equal 640 acres. They had to add a correction line every 24 miles going north to correct for the earth's curvature. The correction is ~ 1 mile. The northbound roads all jig West by a mile every 24 miles going northward. Kind of proves a spherical earth.
@@whatelseison8970 Obviously, they did the measurements long ago, before Canada adopted the metric system. You must be a young person who thinks the world has always been the way it is now. Hahahahahahaha you will learn that your "normal" is not normal, in a few decades.
@@bob2233445 It proves the curvature. if you start equal distant lines at the equator and head north, they meet at the north pole. The further you are north, the more difference it makes. I live in South Dakota and the road a couple miles north of me has a correction line for the same reason.
Oddly enough, I once had a lengthy conversation with a guy (he was using a pseudonym) with a flat earther who claimed to be a surveyor. He knew nothing about geodetic surveying, of course. He also claimed that he surveyed large sections of land and that it was evidence of flat earth. Of course, he could well have been lying. I have found that they tend to lie a lot. After all, it often is said: #GottaLieToFlerf
@@d.charlespyle a lot of people say flat earthers make sock puppet accounts on social media to like and comment on their own posts, using the exact same phrases copied and pasted. It wouldn't be surprising if the two of you had talked to the same guy with different names.
I saw a graphic example of the curvature - decades ago, standing on the wharf at Omoka in Penrhyn lagoon in the northern Cook Islands, the tops of the coconut palms at Te Tautua the other side of the lagoon nine miles away are just peeking over the horizon. I did a back-of-the-envelope calculation of their height (you only need Pythagoras) - assuming R=4000 miles, they worked out at about 50 feet from memory. Later on we went across the lagoon in a boat and sure enough the rest of the trees and the village came into view. I didn't have a tape measure or a local volunteer to measure their height directly but but fifty feet looked about right - but then I would never have believed that anyone would seriously question the curvature of the earth in this century.
I have done civil engineering, I've worked on various construction projects from roads, structures to renewable projects through to the mining industry. I commented on one of SciMan Dan's video that briefly touched on this. We do account for curvature. On a some projects such as a small free standing structure it is nearly negligible but bridge construction and subsurface tunnels it would create a huge problem.
My Father was a Chief Surveyor for the Ordnance Survey in the 60s, 70s, 80s and 90s,. He and his teams mapped the whole of the UK one team from the North to South and the other from South to North, and he told me that they had to account for the curvature of the Earth. Their maps were less than a quarter of an inch out in the two teams, which is pretty damn good. His name was Ronald Charles Layton, should you care to find out if he existed or not! He died in 2013 alas, he was a fine man. I still have some books and a beautiful clinometer from 1911....
Len Beadell and the Gunbarrel Highway Construction Crew are a great story, surveyor from 1946 onwards built a whole ton of outback roads by essentially hand surveying the lot, and co-ordinating teams from each direction of what was being built.
One thing I've noticed about Flat Earth arguments is that the Flat Earthers fail to realize that "flat" and "level" are not the same thing. Flat means the surface is is plane. Level means that the surface is perpendicular to the force of gravity. Biiiiig difference when you get to a surface that's over a half a mile long. Jody, retired Civil Engineer
yeah jody- the state of Kansas is 'flatter than a pancake,' ZERO curvature, impossible on a ball. ImpossiBALL. And btw, its calls sea LEVEL, not sea curvature. Facts are damning to the ball theory.
@@jackk1583 Like the British National Grid, most US states have their own map grids, called "state planes". Kansas statute Chapter 58, Article 20a states: The "Kansas coordinate system of 1983 north zone (zone code 1501)" is a Lambert conformal conic projection of the North American datum of 1983, having standard parallels at north latitudes 38 degrees 43 minutes and 39 degrees 47 minutes along which parallels the scale shall be exact. The origin of coordinates is at the intersection of the meridian 98 degrees zero minutes west of Greenwich and the parallel 38 degrees 20 minutes north latitude. This origin is given the coordinates: N = 0 meters and E = 400,000 meters. There's a lot to unpack here, but it defines two standard parallels, along which the scales are exact. Why might it have to specify that? Because when you are not on those parallels, the scale is NOT exact. By the way, did you also catch the words "north zone"? That's because Kansas is split into two zones, north and south. The state is big enough that the distortion caused by the curvature of the Earth is too large for accurately defining property boundaries, if you were to use a single Lambert conformal conic or transverse Mercator projection.
@@jackk1583 look a pancake through a MICROSCOPE and it looks VERY bumpy. THAT is what they ACTUALLY SAID. they did NOT say earth is flat. AND why do you think it's called sea LEVEL and not sea FLAT? your CULT has ZERO explanation for how water could EVER be "level", therefore LEVEL WATER PROVES THE GLOBE. ALL facts utterly destroy all flat earth FANTASIES.
@@jackk1583 You must have never been to Kansas. It's not "flat as a pancake" at all. And, actually "sea level" is a great comparison, as one of the definitions of level is a "surface everywhere at right angles to the plumb line" and a plumb line always points toward the center of the earth. So, seat level is a surface everywhere at right angles to a line pointing toward the center of the earth, and, so, is, curved following the surface of the earth.
@@jodyhuneycutt I'm so glad that the Creator gifted mankind with common sense to freely use, if we would but but avail, but no, men choose to play the ostrich, burying the head behind unprovable theories and endless mathematical formulas which only darken the minds of the innocent. There is no spinning ball. No man has seen it, except for assumption. Pick a lake, any lake. Still as death with zero curve or bendy water. It is distressing to even have this conversation. Clouds move over a still earth. The sun moves over a still earth. The moon does not borrow its light from the sun. Just as it is, and just as it appears.
I think the most interesting bit of the _transverse_ Mercator, as used by Ordnance Survey, is that they use the _meridian_ of 2 deg West in the same way as the _equator_ in the ordinary Mercator. So, areas do not grow towards north or south, but towards east and west. Because the UK is not as wide as it is tall, distortion is kept smaller this way than if they had used normal Mercator (even if that normal Mercator had used 49 deg North as its 'equator'). Found the pdf by the way; smashing read! Thanks.
This is the "Chudley Building Construction Handbook" of surveying that I used during my BTEC in Construction I did back in 1999. These people could just rent a couple of levels/theodolites and test this for themselves by pointing them at each other. Provided you can level the devise then you are good to go.
one of them already rented a very precise laser gyroscope and measured a 15 degree per hour drift and was still a flat earther, i doubt them seeing it with their own eyes would get them believe the earth is round
There actually was a surveyor that was on oakley's panel a bunch of times and had joined FECore. But after having conversations with some of the more well known surveyors that have been involved in the discussion about flat earth he went out and measured himself, confirmed curvature of the earth, and shared that fact on a live show on oakley's channel which also had the head of FECore on it at the time. The flerfs immediate reaction was that they had been betrayed. They removed him from FECore and oakley's panel for good.
A quick correction as someone who is in the Land Surveying profession, Transverse Mercator is not Mercator. It is almost the opposite, things get more distorted as you move east and west. It holds north and south distances along its central meridian as being equidistant.
But, but the projection is indeed Mercator, only the cylinder is ,well, transverse, instead of parallel to the axis of revolution of the Earth. You would use the same formulas, albeit adjusted, in order to calculate coordinates
If a flat earther became a surveyor he would read that line about not normally needing to account for curve under 120m and would ensure all his tests were under that scale. Then he would cite how he's an expert. I've seen too many grifter flat earthers who will go WAY out of their way to make sure that the tests confirm their bias for their viewers. I've also seen them create a "margin of error" that is wide enough to accept R as a result so that they can say their test passed when it measured R instead of horizontal.
Of course they all do. They are just following in the footsteps of the guy they all crib from, Samuel Rowbotham. It’s not about honest inquiry and it never was.
I wrote the navigation system test plan for a USAF trainer. The system performance specified in the contract required that the system comprehend Earth's curvature. So while I can't personally confirm the curvature of the Earth, I can confidently say that the USAF trains pilots that the earth is an oblate spheroid.
I'm in Australia and it's very obvious that it's a globe Earth, as I can see the path of the Sun everyday and the direction of rise and set. If you've spent time outdoors at night, you'll also notice the Southern Cross like a "24" hour clock hand during the night rotating about the Southern axial of rotation point. But there are still people in Australia that believe in a flat earth, they have no clue which direction is which either. This despite the path of the Sun being totally inverted compared to the flat earth model.
Australian here too. I would dearly love one day to set up an experiment between someone in Sydney, and someone in Perth who can both go out at night at the same moment in time with a compass, and camera (and possibly some well known landmarks around them), and show that the Southern Cross points directly south by comparing against the compass and any aligning any landmarks in the camera view. That experiment alone would completely destroy flat earth, as it would be completely impossible using their model, but totally explainable on a globe. Problem is, I am in Darwin, halfway between, longitude wise, but I'd like to get the widest spread of longitude lines possible on our continent for this 'experiment'.
I run a surveying business now but when I started surveying at 18 years old the first thing I learnt was levelling and the curvature of the earth. When traversing long distances we never take readings further than 120m-150m due to errors which then show up on the closed loop traverse results.
This is basically what confused Lovecraft so much he kept going on about Non-Euclidian Geometry when describing his impossibly ancient civilisations. But Everything on the planet is built that way because we're not on a flat plane.
That seems to be what people who don't understand science don't understand. If it works, then it's correct. When there are 100 different independent ways to measure the same thing and they all agree, that counts as "working."
I actually managed to pass polar calculus in university. Something about majoring in engineering required the course. It was about solving problems using sections of a sphere or circle. Long time ago, a lot has departed from my memory. My other thought listening to your excellent video is latitude and longitude. It was when sextants and accurate clocks were invented that accurate navigation of the earth was possible. Yes, some peoples were able to get to the place they were aiming for without the instruments. And other peoples became lost. Columbus thought he was in East India, not the Caribbean famously. Note how the sections as defined by lat x long get smaller as you approach the poles.
You 2 defend a lie based on 0 evidence Engineering problems faced when trying to account for curve in building the London tunnel 31.5 miles long. Curve calculator says should be behind 660 feet of curve. Ordnance survey national grid reference system (bng) didn't work. They accounted for 20 cm per km due to the curvature of earth. Even by longitude and latitude by using spherical calculations they could be out by as much as 200 metres. As maps are flat the engineers trying use calculations of a spherical earth via a flat map. If this seems excessive than pop along to Greenwich and stand on the prime meridian, pulling out a Gps receiver it'll tell you your 102 metres to the east of the meridian because it uses a different mapping system to old paler maps Three different points where taken using three different coordinator system proven to be reliable. All three calculations contradicted curve on a flat map. This is from Ian visits. Com . Uk
@@Stopstalkingmenarokkurai You keep copy-pasting that same block of text, even though you know it contains factual errors down to the very name of the tunnel. Why would you do that? Do you actually believe it?
I was US Army. Every map I ever dealt with using the MGRS grid system has a different angle depending on where on the earth it is for. That angle, is the angle between Magnetic North and True and Polar North using The North Star and The North Pole for reference points. The closer to either the North or South Pole, the wider that angle gets.
Correct, magnetic declination and angle of latitude/longitude affect not only us land surveyors but also anyone who is using maps for land or naval navigation.
Amazing! Someone should tell all the flat earthers!.... oh wait. It's sad that this is where we are. In 2023 we are still trying to tell people "the earth isn't flat".
Speaking of large engineering projects, long suspension bridges require taking the curvature into account. The Golden Gate Bridge towers are 5 cm farther apart at the top than the bottom due to the curvature.
I am convinced that there are only 2 types of flat earthers: 1) Those who are are trolling us all and get their jollies from people losing their minds and spending all kinds of time and effort combatting them, and 2) Those who have a mental or emotional illness based in paranoia and/or delusions. I'm guessing category #1 represents 85%+.
As Llortnerof stated, there's a third category. And it was the first. Generally, we have: * Conmen * True Believers * Jokesters And they came in that order. The originator of all this nonsense back in the late nineteenth century was a notable conman who used this as a means to make bank via speaking tours. He probably maintained awareness throughout that this was false. But his followers were true believers and many of those folded this into various religions. Much later there were several waves of jokesters or trolls, including some organizations that essentially were crushed under the weight of true believers their frivolity generated.
As a former practitioner of the arcane and dark art of Celestial Navigation, I can assure the commenter @1:35 that spherical triangles are very real and very useful. A sphere is the only way you can have a triangle with three right angles. If you combine two of these triangles you get a Pentagramma Mirificum (Latin for miraculous pentagram) which is a star polygon on a sphere, composed of five great circle arcs, all of whose internal angles are right angles.
No, the Pentagramma Mirificum isn't 2 triangles combined, any more than a flat pentagram is 2 triangles combined. 2 triangles have 6 angles between them. A pentagram has 5.
@@jursamaj Try reading the excellent Wikipedia article on Pentagramma Mirificum and you will see that I am correct. Remember that the triangles on a sphere each have three 90 degree angles.
Many years ago in my survey training we had to learn how to derive latitude and longitude and azimuth from star observations. Now latitude is basically the angle from your horizontal up to the celestial north/south pole - in the N hemisphere you have Polaris, the pole star near it. For every about 111 km you move N or S your latitude changes by 1 deg, as that is the angle subtended at the earth's centre over 111 km. To get the same effect of a flat earth, you would need all the visible stars to be on a hemispherical dome with the same radius as the earth - about 6380 km. Great, the stars are not light years away, but within 6400 km. Now the only issue is that a hemisphere with a radius of 6400 km, above the north pole, meets the earth, about 32 deg N - about the latitude of say Los Angeles, Cairo or Shanghai. If you are south of these places your are outside the limits of the earth, plus outside the observable universe. Hmmm
If surveyors get math wrong.... It costs the company millions if not BILLIONS and the project would have to be redone from the beginning. The shear accuracy we run on is insane and if no one calculated it right things get wasted and costs more money.
Well, apparently there is a Canusa street that goes along the border of Vermont and Quebec. It does not follow the correct international border because the surveyors were drunk. Well, it was the 19th century afterall!
@@aemrt5745 yeah... But even back then this math was solid. If you don't follow guide line in a process and keep paperwork is the difference in being fired or keeping you job
@@Jd-zl7mn Though back then folks were a lot more permissive about booze. Though Prohibition was a bad idea that could never work, there was an understandable reason why people were fed up with too much alcohol consumption.
As a former real estate appraiser, when I saw the title of this video my mind went to the larger scale maps we sometimes used that show a township divided up into 36 sections of one square mile each, which were then divided up into 16 40-acre blocks. Being in the northern hemisphere, the southern edge of these maps was always square. But ty the time it got to the northern end there was a bit of inward curvature, and some of those parcels were a bit under 40 acres. Which is just one more indication, as if I needed it, that the surveyors know what they're doing when they adjust for curvatures. Thank you for this video.
Correct, a very good observation. Longitude can also cause complications in orienteering and land/naval navigation the closer you are to the Earth's poles.
You are correct. However that much would be the same on a flat earth. As you go north the lines of longitude get closer together. We see that in Michigan which was laid out in sections that are a square mile. But the north-south roads that separate can’t go straight. They have to jog over every so often to get back to being one mile apart. The problem for flat earthers is when you do the same thing in the southern hemisphere. There model would have the north south lines getting further apart when in reality they get closer together as you go south.
In the meanwhile, those of us with brains are watching this, fascinated by the science, and yet asking ourselves, "Wait; I know the Earth is a globe. Why am I watching this? Ooo! More science!"
This isn't quite true, a friend of mine is a land surveyor and his coworker is a flat Earther. He factors in the roundness of the Earth in his daily work but still somehow thinks it's flat anyway.
for some people, once you've labeled yourself something then denouncing that label takes away part of your identity and purpose in life. Which is another reason why religious people, sportsfans, conspiracy theorists, and cult members have a hard time getting out
The one positive thing about flerfs is that I constantly learn more and more about interesting stuff like this because of how many ways people prove that the Earth absolutely cannot be flat.
In the US, if a licensed surveyor fails to account for critical facts like the curvature of the planet and, more importantly, the fact that meridians converge to the north, north of the equator, they would introduce errors in their maps (called plats) that would in turn lead to lawsuits.
Engineer, W. Winckler was published in the Earth Review regarding the Earth’s supposed curvature, stating, “As an engineer of many years standing, I saw that this absurd allowance is only permitted in school books. No engineer would dream of allowing anything of the kind. I have projected many miles of railways and many more of canals and the allowance has not even been thought of, much less allowed for. This allowance for curvature means this - that it is 8” for the first mile of a canal, and increasing at the ratio by the square of the distance in miles; thus a small navigable canal for boats, say 30 miles long, will have, by the above rule an allowance for curvature of 600 feet. Think of that and then please credit engineers as not being quite such fools. Nothing of the sort is allowed. We no more think of allowing 600 feet for a line of 30 miles of railway or canal, than of wasting our time trying to square the circle” A surveyor and engineer of thirty years published in the Birmingham Weekly Mercury stated, “I am thoroughly acquainted with the theory and practice of civil engineering. However bigoted some of our professors may be in the theory of surveying according to the prescribed rules, yet it is well known amongst us that such theoretical measurements are INCAPABLE OF ANY PRACTICAL ILLUSTRATION. All our locomotives are designed to run on what may be regarded as TRUE LEVELS or FLATS. There are, of course, partial inclines or gradients here and there, but they are always accurately defined and must be carefully traversed. But anything approaching to eight inches in the mile, increasing as the square of the distance, COULD NOT BE WORKED BY ANY ENGINE THAT WAS EVER YET CONSTRUCTED. Taking one station with another all over England and Scotland, it may be stated that all the platforms are ON THE SAME RELATIVE LEVEL. The distance between Eastern and Western coasts of England may be set down as 300 miles. If the prescribed curvature was indeed as represented, the central stations at Rugby or Warwick ought to be close upon three miles higher than a chord drawn from the two extremities. If such was the case there is not a driver or stoker within the Kingdom that would be found to take charge of the train. We can only laugh at those of your readers who seriously give us credit for such venturesome exploits, as running trains round spherical curves. Horizontal curves on levels are dangerous enough, vertical curves would be a thousand times worse, and with our rolling stock constructed as at present physically impossible.” The Manchester Ship Canal Company published in the Earth Review stated, “It is customary in Railway and Canal constructions for all levels to be referred to a datum which is nominally horizontal and is so shown on all sections. It is not the practice in laying out Public Works to make allowances for the curvature of the earth.
Dave, I mean this sincerely. You are by far the best anti-flat earther on the internet. Ive seen every one of your videos and i watch the news ones asap. Keep up the great work!
Video game models have a similar issue. When you make a 3d model, and you want to texture it, you have to cut it up so that it can be laid flat. So that a flat image can be applied to it. It's an art of in it's self. You don't want your cuts to be visible, but you also don't want the texture to be stretched. laying a sphere flat will always be stretched and squished.
@@5peciesunkn0wn UV mapping has never bothered me. Retopology is what I don't like. I like to sculpt characters, but retopologizing is why I always put it off.
You did a fantastic job showing the material from the book in a useful and easy-to-follow way. The way you introduced related paragraphs and used arrows to highlight connections between the images and the descriptions was great. Good work!
@@WCDavis-cl7si you're telling me! Some of these flerf videos are so convoluted that they're difficult to look at. Regardless, no matter what the content I rarely see someone use a paper textbook so well in a video form.
meanwhile, there’s actual video (circa Jan 2020) placing the hard sphere "edge" that boats and ships apparently fall over 😂 at around 9 miles further out than it should have been #black #swan
This seems like pretty damning evidence, but I’m sure the flatties will figure out some way to either ignore, or willfully misrepresent what you’ve said here..😞
At one point in the video he said "But Flatearthers think that..." This will be the only part they are jumping on with "We never claimed/ I would nevver claim/ We don't know" and that's it, the rest will be ignored.
@@mathewferstl7042 I'm confused as well... so apparently we were to the moon and there are not 72 sexes... which is both correct. 72 is an oddly specific number, since most genetical traits appear on a spectrum if they are defined by multiple genes, since it is usually too many to name the specific amount of possible combinations.
@@rudolfquerstein6710 Do you imagine a species with 72 sexes tho? it would be wild, some fungi species have up to 5 sexes where a can mate with b, b with c, c with d, d with e and e with a, but not other combinations. Or in the case of bees where they have female, male and worker. How would a species with 72 sexes even work? I can only imagine some kind of insect like colony species where there are specific multiple female-ish sexes to create different types of the species like soldier type, worker type. big soldier type, that instead of a queen bug doing it all, there are multiple, one for each type, then a specific type of male-ish for each type as well, then maybe the those types that are breed have no reproductive capabilities so, nonsexual, but even then 72 would be wild, at most i can imagine like 7 or 8 different types, if we imagine that for each type there is going to be a male-ish a female-ish and the type itself that would be asexual you would have 8*2+1 which it 17, the asexual ones do not count each type as a different sex as in the context of sexes they are the same sex, asexual, then we may add another female type that births this different males and females that create the rest, and you have 18, if we include a new male-ish type that serves to inseminate the queen type then 19, and that would be wild and completely unrealistic as it would be a very wasteful way of reproduction when there is absolutely no need to create pseudo mini-queens for each body type with each their own males. when the queen can just birth the worker/soldiers/etc directly. But even with this though experiment, the max i can imagine is around 19 sexes in a completely unrealistic fantasy like scenario. TBH it is already weird enough that there are 2 sexes, a single sex that is unable of self impregnation would do, there is not even a necessity of 2 reproductive organs or 2 types of reproductive cells, with a reproductive cell that can be combined with others of the same type but not of the same origin would do, this would even prevent the worst of incest as closely related reproductive cells would probably be incompatble as well.
I've watched a few flerf debunking videos, and this is the first of yours I've seen. I love how you do it! It's very clear and easy to understand, also engaging in a way that keeps my attention. I need to look at your stuff some more. Great work!
Thanks for this its something surveyors are taught very early on. For levelling you do not normally go over 100m distance (from level to staff/target) as curvature of the earth impacts on the reading. It was established/confirmed by surveyors in1700s when they noticed that flat canals follow the curvature of the earth.
When I hear "water always finds it's level or they don't account for curvature", I get a slight headache because it's like going back to square one again. Dave is like kind teacher that holds your hand through it all and yet somehow it seems like they hit a switch that brings them back to s1. I was a flatearther for 2 months when i was 24 but when I saw the effort an educated man put in to explain the simple movements in the sky compared to -"Thats how its always been or we don'tknow yet" I instantly came back to earth because it all made sense.
The water finds its own level argument that flat eathers use is so stupid it means that it will always go to the lowest point not that it finds one flat level and stays there it makes me die inside as well whenever I hear it
they also ignore simply things that make claims like that absurd on their face -- like the tides. If water *always* finds it's level and never curves, then what the *actual* hell are tides? But that never matters, they just move on or say something nonsensical like "electrostatic forces."
It's what's called a thought-terminating cliche. They mindlessly repeat "water finds its own level" because it means that after that they don't have to think anymore, that it's true because it's true. It's a remarkably effective weapon against critical thinking, used by basically every modern cult.
Man, I'm sorry it got you, if even for a moment. It seems that very few ever come back once they fall down the rabbit hole. I'm aware of only 2 flat Earthers that had public presence that actually came back to reality and have maintained public presence since. And are actually FE debunkers now.
That's legit what it feels like ! They just wanna turn off their brain with a simple sentence. Flat earth made me respect all science and i've been addicted to learning everything ever since. But Id never argue or debate one ...........
"maybe some flat earther should take a course in surveying" As if a flat earther would actually put any effort into doing research.. the last time someone did so they found out that there indeed a 15 degree per hour drift (thanks Bob, RIP)
Set up a total station, level, or theodolite on the edge of a good sized lake, set vertical angle to zero and look at shoreline on other side a few miles away, and the cross-hairs will be much higher above the water surface than your instrument height. Best demo I can think of to show Earth is not flat. A modern theodolite measures angles with extreme accuracy and will easily show the glaring error if you were expecting the cross hairs to be at eye level on the opposite side.
A rudimentary version of that was done by Jeran in that fiasco of a documentary in Netflix some years ago. Guess what? He denied the whole thing, and he's still a flat head. They don't want evidence. They are allergic to evidence. They found a narrative they enjoy (or can milk to make some money) and that's it.
Been watching your videos for a few weeks, and I'm so glad you used Coordinate Reference Systems in the argument against the flat earth belief. I am a geospatial scientist/engineer and I'm well known enough that my reputation reaches further than just the UK and I have to use these systems to adapt lat/long into meters. The importance of course behind this is that no one system can be used all around the world - they have a finite reach in terms of useability, something that can be shown when you choose different projections inside a gis tool like qgis or arcgis. To you and me this makes perfect sense, as the distance covered by one degree of longitude changes based on the latitude it's taken at. The further north you go above, or south below the equator the shorter the distance covered by a single degree of rotation. And you are 100% correct, that none of these systems work perfectly - because it isn't possible to perfectly map a curved surface to a flat map. Within a small area it can be shown to work reasonably well, as the distortion covered by the curve is quite small, but the larger the area covered the worse it gets. If you want to discuss this further send me an message - It's become quite a hobby of mine using my actual job to demonstrate exactly why flat earth is nonsense Keep up the good work - it's funny as always
Hey DickieDean8042: Prove the Gleason Map's measurements wrong so the 1892 patent on it must be lifted. Or; present a reverse Gleason Map with more accurate measurements and get your own patent, and/or your own name on a map. You do sound really pretentious; keep up the good work.
@@WCDavis-cl7si I don't need to get my name on a map. Certainly not something that was used to drive book sales, but in his patent application admitted that it was just an attempt to project the globe onto a 2d map. It proves nothing, it does exactly what all projected maps do - attempts to make a 2d flat map out of something that isn't. Like I said. I have to do this for a living. It's literally my job - or am I part of the big conspiracy?
@@WCDavis-cl7si I mean the funniest part of this is you ask me to prove the measurements wrong, but I don't have to - all 2d projections of the world are wrong if they cover the whole globe even the ones that are rectangular and familiar to most of the people on the planet. Because it isn't possible to have everything either the right size, or the correct distance away from each other.
@@richarddean8042 Go do your LIE of a living then, Dickie D. Your obviously pretentious attitude means that you will most certainly be a great flat earther someday. I look forward to welcoming you; you know, when you are older, wiser and more mature. Again; if you are so correct and smart and right, then go get that fake Gleason patent lifted. We'll wait.
A flerther taking on surveryer training will probably be kicked out very soon because they keep shouting at the lecturer that the book is wrong and the Earth is flat... provided that they can even understand half of the formula (wanted to use plural but then realize that's too much for flerthers' tiny brains) listed in the book.
To be fair... Water IS level. But level does not mean flat. It means every point on a surface has the same distanxe from a reference object. In thr case of water on earth, the reference object is the center of the orb earth.
Water is always level. The Suez canal is 100 miles of dead flat water. Once again, impossible on a ball. Flat earthers (which i despise the words) know the earth is not flat. It has dips and valleys, mountains, etc, but still a plane.
@@joshuasmith1981 sure. All surveyors measure over a still plane. I advise you to study the movements of the sun over your head. She moves like a precision clock, being perfect in degrees, hours, and minutes. Ask any surveyor. And the results are recorded with minute detail. Thank the Creator for such magnificence and daily maintenance of His world, even though men have boasted otherwise.
Do you think people who believe the earth is flat will understand that math in the book? It's easier for them to say all surveyors are paid to lie to us about the globe... For some reason
At the start of my training as an aircraft navigator we had to draw up our own maps, from scratch. So we learned much about the shape of the Globe, various map projections and the errors that accrued as you moved toward a chart's edges. The experience of putting all this into practice around the world proved all was correct. Being able to measure the altitude of Polaris or Sigma Oct above the local horizon with a sextant and consistently from the Arctic to the Falklands get the correct latitude on the Globe is tough to explain with a flat Earth model but surpisingly easy if you accept the established science. Minor thing but the National Grid squares are just 100 km. Fun fact: the Ordnance Survey was actually created to assist accurate artillery fire by the British Army, should Napoleon's threat of invasion have come to pass, hence the 'Ordnance' bit.
I like the continuing notation that in small areas, the curvature of the Earth can be ignored. I live in a moderately large house for The United States. The property is well defined by fences. If we were to have a survey done on this property, He'd, "shoot" it, pound a couple of stakes in the ground and be done with it. However, when I think of huge projects, like laying the first continental railroad across the U.S. (The U.S. is about 4,000 miles across 6,500 Kilometers). Guess what? The curve of the Earth now has to be taken into account. By the way, I live very near Lake Tahoe, California. When I go up to the lake (I live in Reno, Nevada), and stand on the beach, even on a hot summer day (like we've had the last week or so), it is impossible for me to see the other side of the lake.
I'm sure the surveyors who laid the route for the Transcontinental Railroad accounted for the Earth's curve hundreds of times altogether by the time they finished, but a railroad can be done in segments and adjusted here and there as needed to deal with natural features. Now, the Chunnel on the other hand... well, they had much less margin for error than Union Pacific trying to meet in the middle.
Yes, when surveying, there are situations where you can just ignore the Earth's curvature. For example, when you build a simple house, you can ignore the curvature as the error from ignoring it can be 2 to 4 order of magnitude smaller that the error margin of all the measurement done during that project. That can't mean that the Earth is flat. It only mean that the effect of the curve is to small to have a real effect.
I'm a land surveyor and demonstrating the curvature of the earth across a lake is the most basic of tasks. Why have none of us been commissioned by flat earthers to put it to rest?
Because anything that disproves them can't exist or else all their claims fail. That's why they deny the 15°/hr drift (Thanks Bob, RIP), and "interesting" (Thanks jeranism)
The same thing is true for RF Engineers. I used to plan long distance communication links. Even with antenna at 200' on both ends, you will hit the ground in the middle if the link it long enough.
I’m not so sure there are no flat earth surveyors. When I lived in Iowa, there were two surveying companies in town and I lived next-door to the chairman of the surveying department at the University. Chronically they would be cases where one of the companies would lay out the boundary lines and they would be wrong because they did not correct for the curvature of the Earth. My neighbor would get involved and would point out the flaws in that survey and then the other surveying company would be called in who would correctly lay out the boundaries. I wondered why this kept happening, but after watching your video I suspect that the people in the one surveying company may have been flat earthers. 😂
This is a pretty good point. I doubt any flat earther could do any accurate land surveys. In fact im pretty sure theyve tried and consistently mess up. So throwing the book at them is awesome
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oo first on a pinned comment
The earth travels around the sun, at a speed of 107000 km/hr. Any object that is dropped above ground, from a place that is facing the direction of earth's path (front), will land faster than one dropped from a place at the back of the earth.
@@gontlemanggeneral-segolodi5222No, they will drop at the exact same time, at the exact same speed, at an exact same rate
🥱
@@gontlemanggeneral-segolodi5222
Acording to what physics and math? Can you give me your calculation that predicts what you claim?, so we can check with reality?
According the heliocentric model real physics tells that the earth is in free fall around the sun. So the only change in acceleration comes from the tidal forces of the sun (max 0.000 000 505 m/s²) and the moon (max 0.000 001 128 m/s²), which are very small compared to earths gravity (mean 9.80665 m/s²) and can be neglected in practice.
And you know what physics predicts for the rotating earth? That the centrifugal acceleration makes things lighter approaching the equator. So the effective acceleration of falling bodies should depend on the latitude on the globe model.
If this prediction of a rotating globe comports exactly with experiment and contradicts the flat earth prediction of constant acceleration everywhere (or do you have a physical explanation and math model for flat earth that predicts the same?), than this is evidence for the globe and falsifies flat earth.
Guess what. The effective acceleration measured in reality depends on latitude exactly as predicted for a globe of radius 6,371 km, Mass of 5.972168e24 kg and rotation period of 0.99726968 days.
=> The earth is not flat and stationary.
Just as easy debunk is my military service.
1) I used gyro compass to find rotational north for artillery.
2) I calculated the compensation for the coreolis effect for artillery.
3) I live at the coast of Sweden and have seen 100,000+ big ships disappear bottom up over large distance of water.
4) I can use GPS in the middle of the ocean
5) I have seen a sunset.
Radar also destroys flat earth. The very fact that it has pretty much the same range as the human eye is ignored by flattars, The fact that Naval Gunnery needed a foreword spotter to locate and determine accuracy also destroys them. Guns have a longer range than radar in most cases
For me, 5) is all anybody needs to observe.
The last one is brilliant
Agree. As a leisure sailor it's also more than obvious. Sailing at nighttime along the german coast which is all lowlands and seeing lighthouses suddenly appear and disappear on the horizon. A quick look at on the charts and I immediately know how far away and how high they are. And it's not refraction, the lights are so strong, they don't just gently appear, one minute they are not there, and then there are there. During daytime the same with windparks. basic binoculars let you see wind turbines seemingly churning water even though they are 120m in height. Ships over the horizon... sure, same amount! thousands. My Radar and VHF range... obvious...
@@gowdsake7103everything destroys flat earth*
Flat earth is so stupid that i can debunk it using a bag of chips.
Surveyor here. i can assure everyone that there is no other group that wants the earth be flat more then Surveyors. It would make everything so much easier.
You're just in on the Grift.
/s
i can imagine so. instead of needing higher level algebra and trig, you could do basic geometry and algebra. i always enjoy watching a surveyor doing their job.
LOL. I've never thought about it in this way! You've made my day)
I work in GIS. I 100% agree. We even use flat coordinate systems because it’s way easier to run tools with. Even though, at larger scales, they become inaccurate.
If the world was flat we wouldn’t have to contend with different coordinate systems and projections.
@popermen694 there is only one factual projection azimuthal equidistant projection a fe map.
This video compares globe flights to azimuthal equidistant projection flights
th-cam.com/video/kajiKy06bu0/w-d-xo.htmlsi=AbmSphLVTNSkar_t
How can globe have a projection when it's not a factual map?
Spent 30 years as an engineering surveyor. Longest traverse I ever did was over 300 km for a pipeline survey. Absolutely had to correct for curvature on that one :)
That just means that you're in on it /s
for that large distances, is the d^2 term still enough (I assume it comes from a Taylor approximation)
My great uncle was the chief surveyor for the then-state-owned power company, and was responsible for surveying thousands of kilometres of transmission lines. We had some nice chats before he died. He had the best mental arithmetic tricks I've ever seen.
@@dudono1744 It's more likely to be a Chebyshev or minimax approximation. Essentially, the d^2 term is optimised for line-of-sight.
Hats off to you and your years of education and experience. However, all that means, in themind of a flat Earth enthusiast, you have just being bought out as part of the conspiracy by the globalists. I personally would encourage flat Earth people to become engineers or surveyors and try to use flat earth mathematics when designing their projects, if not for the potential for catastrophic failure and subsequent loss of life.
I'd wager there aren't many flat earth civil engineers either. I had a course on the basics of surveying in the third semester and we accounted for the curvature. At our rather small scale it were mere milimeter and centimeters but still, it was there.
i would wager that there aren't any flat earth engineers of any kind.
@@johnqpublic7608 probably a computer engineer or two, but it'd be hard to dodge those other courses since you need the college credits
I’m a Texas professional civil engineer and I believe in the flat earth. JK I’m not crazy. Haha
yeah i dont think we would have civil engineers if they had to deal with more.... anything.
i had some great conversations with some flat earth scaffolders... fun times. kept the clock ticking over i guess.
Flat earthers are not very civil anyway. ;)
I have a fairly unique perspective as a licensed pilot, AND having used work on a survey field crew. I also helped with the drawing of the maps in ACAD. We absolutely 100% had to take the earth curve into account. Particularly when using GPS gear, and when surveying long distances.
As a pilot i can confirm i have never once had to push the nose down to follow the curve of the earth. This is NOT because the earth is flat however. It is because wings will follow what ever pressure plane you are currently setup for. (i.e. power and trim) therefore regardless of being on a spherical (moslty) planet, the plane will travel at constant altitude above the mean sea level.
Flers have absolutely no concept of even the most basic of physics and have become incapable of the basic reasoning required to gain it.
If you did have to push the nose down to compensate for the earth's curvature using the trim, would you even notice? It would only have to pitch "down" a complete 360 degrees once every circumnavigation of the globe.
But as a pilot, surely you must have had to bank constantly left or right when flying east or west and following a line of latitude, like all flat Earth maps require. 😉
@@PervertedThang haha .. goot one
@@PervertedThangand also the sun would scribe a huge arc in the sky above as well...
@@PervertedThang Why would you follow a line of latitude when you can fly in a straight line the shortest one to where you are going. That's some kind of hill billy logic you got there.
I love how there are hundreds of industries like surveying whose science wouldnt work if the Earth were flat (not just NASA), and how most of them predate NASA (George Washington was a surveyor..) and it's still not enough for flat earthers to comprehend.
The best part is, the USSR did not bother exposing the American globe Earth lies. The USA and the USSR both agreed on keeping the secret. Same with China and India: they have regular military conflicts at their border, they want to one-up each other, both have a space program... yet none exposes the globe Earth lies of the other.
What is more likely: all the rival governments agreed to keep a secret for centuries, or a globe Earth is a fact?
This isnt true, they would just use different techniques and science. Interestingly, the world would be a much simpler place if the earth were flat, things would be far easier. We would also be far more advanced, the shape of the earth holds us back in many ways, navigation has been a colossal pain because the earth is round, space exploration is massively more complex because the earth is round and spinning and moving around the sun.
@@probablynotmyname8521 Your comment is somewhat nonsensical because a flat Earth cannot exist. Gravity does not allow it. Navigation is not and was not a colossal pain, it was resolved tolerably well by the 1500s and because it was resolved by then, maritime trade then exploded.
@@ShizukuSeijiWeeeell, yeah, it could exist... If the laws of physics were completely different from what we have come to experience and determine as consistent and correct. Similar to how atoms with a lower atomic weight than hydrogen could be possible if the atomic nucleus were made up of different quantum states. But that's simply wishful thinking, and not acknowledging reality.😊😂
Ah, it's in a book so it's gotta be true 🤡
I've been a surveyor for 45 years. Only since the rise of social media have the flat-earthers become a thing. This is the first TH-cam video I've seen that actually refers to the most qualified experts on this subject - Land Surveyors. My whole life, whenever a flat earth argument came up (which was rare), I would say the earth is round (actually an ellipsoid of revolution, i.e. a slightly flattened sphere caused by the earths rotation), people would defer and accept that statement. Social media has developed this new cult with sh*t for brains, full of self importance.
Sorry wrong. Civilazations of old, knew the shape of the earth, long before social media was in diapers. Earth is motionless, just as it appears, and just as common sense tells us, and just as our everyday experience testifies. It is only mental gymnastics that suggests otherwise.
I love all of the slightly flattened spherical images of Earth
They know the Earth is not flat, they have just discovered that by posting their BS they can make money.
I suspect blue water sailors/navigators knew this long ago.
@@DAVID-io9nj given that they spent their lives watching things appear and disappear gradually over the horizon and understanding why, I would say there were no flat Earthers amongst them.
I'm a flat earth surveyor, what I don't understand is why nobody will hire me. 😂😂😂😂
That’s a good one
Your fake diploma fell flat 😂
You laugh but use to be a surveyor. No curve has ever been accounted for in any plans ever over water. Why, because water doesnt curve
flat earth pilot here. for some reason only bus companies will hire me. no one else will take me seriously. damn indoctrinated buggers.
@@TK.D36I can see why you *used to* be a surveyor, when this video showed a surveying textbook explicitly depicting making calculations under the premise of mean sea level being a curved line.
I found that exact discrepancy on a surveying field trip when at college.... We had an undulating 1km area to survey with highly accurate theodolites, triangulating in 3 planes and found, as we got to the corners that our distances overlapped slightly... All four groups had the same 'error'... Our tutor helped us figure it out... It was a " duh, of course" moment.
I love teachers that sit back and let you make the simple mistake. Then try to subtly lead you back to the understanding. It's a fantastic way to learn. And you either get a great AHA moment or feel like an absolute legend for getting it. Even though it turns out it's just the next step in the training process.
@@tyrannicpuppyi do this when coaching... Also do it with my kids. For all the reasons you just mentioned.
How accurate were these theodolites? I only know there with like 2 mgon accuracity and this shouldn't be enough for that small area.
@@snowcow1173 well that doesn't apply to anything that's dangerous, not just deadlifting.
Imagine falling while climbing rocks because your instructor wanted you to learn for yourself.
Imagine your driving instructor letting you crash at full speed to teach you the dangers of cars.
lol
@@mq1995 so the education system assisted you to know all earth's knowledge?
Flat earthers seems to actually believe that there is a real debate about the shape of the earth.
They don't seem to understand that flat earthers are just entertainment for smarter people.
I find those with small minds to be sad, not entertaining. But that's just me. They are evidence humanity has failed to impart knowledge effectively and evolving is painfully slow.
Entertainment? or Torture?
It's beyond mere ignorance. Stupidity is like ignorance that you fight for. It's very depressing.
A recent Twitter poll with xx,xxx respondents revealed like 60% were FEers. How did we get here?
@@BillHustonPodcast loved that phrase "Stupidity is like ignorance that you fight for", I am going to steal it.
As a yacht captain I have hundreds of basic exaples of how the flat earthcannot work in reality.
👍 Amen simonboyd. I am a Marine Engineer with years previously in the U.S. Navy as an Operations Specialist responsible for maintaining ship's track plot on Nautical Charts as well as a Navigation Watch Officer on both yachts and civilian ships in my post Navy career so of course I have challenged flerfs on multiple occasions to try passing a U.S. Coastguard or British MCA Captain's License course exam Celestial Navigation module using flat earth.
No surprise that there are no takers so far.
⚓🌴😎
As would anyone with a certificate to fly a Piper Cherokee, Cessna 172 or similar general aviation aircraft. Not to mention pilots flying trans continental and/or trans oceanic flights for commercial airlines... But, the flat earthers don't want to know about any of that, do they... It's like a religious belief for them.
They also seem to think that CGI- and digital photography technology was at present day levels back when the Apollo 17 astronauts took the famous Blue Marble photograph in December 1972. Digital cameras weren't even a thing yet, and CGI was so rudimentary that the mere suggestion it had anything to do with the Blue Marble photograph, is utterly laughable. But, that doesn't seem to deter them either. They just keep on believing...
Celestial navigation does not work in a flat earth idea and celestial navigation has been used for many, many years with negligible error. But a flatly brain cannot grasp that either!
Flat earth cannot work in reality because flat earth is fantasy.
As a human with eyes I have countless examples of how the flat earth can't work in reality 🙂
My brother is a civil engineer. When I was about 17, I spent a summer on a large build project. Part of my job was to hold the staff while he took a reading with the theodolite. He explained about how he had to allow for the curvature
"All lies" - Flatearther
I love the way that the surveyor phrased what he said in the next to last sentence of his comment: "it is a disappointing marriage of egotism and willful ignorance". So well said!
Words borne of frustration, straight from the heart.
@@TheRealTacCom AND ACCURATE!
There's a dictionary definition for someone displaying those characteristics. Stupid.
It has to be willful ignorance, hasn't it? They can't be that thick, can they? ......
Surveying requires mathematics. That alone disqualifies any flerfer to make any statement about flatness, leveling, and/or horizontal.
To be fair, the use of maths disqualifies me as well! lol
@@pencilpauli9442 Me too! I can do it and prove it but cannot say i understand
they don't consider math because their arguments begin and end with "it doesnt feel like im spinning on a ball. the horizon looks flat to me". then use personal incredulity to assert how "ridiculous" sounding space is and the earth being a ball "makes no sense". very sad really, I feel like such extreme conspiracies are a cry for help
@@BondiAV that is the essence of conspiracy theories in general, and flat earth is one of the most egregious.
Think about it -- it's such a stupid, absurd belief that it will self-select for those *most* willing to disregard reality, which means a relative small and insular group that acts as an echo chamber where they can pat each other on the back and reinforce the idea that other people aren't as smart and perceptive as they are.
Eric Dubay (a flat earther) has a video that basically exposes this about why flat earth "matters" -- and he *literally* makes it out to be a battle for the soul of the entire human race.
Folding Ideas has an excellent video called "In Search of a Flat Earth" where he does a deep dive into flat earth and conspiracy culture that I highly recommend if you have the time.
It's not about facts or evidence, it is 100% about how it makes the conspiracy theorist *feel.*
@@BondiAV nailed it.
Asking "Why there are no Flat Earth Surveyors" is like asking why don't mirrors have people living inside them. Because it's simply impossible for either of them to exist.
Well, they could exist, but their maps would be in a book with the title "Wrong Answers Only"
@@headhunter1945 Technically you could be a certified flat earth surveyor... you just would be out of a job, because you lack a flat earth to survey.
@@rudolfquerstein6710 I'm imagining a course that teaches "flat earth surveying technique" where you start with the absolute basics, then start teaching them all the error-corrections and oops, there's curvature.
@@synthetic240 The absolut basic of flat earth surveying techniques would likely be finding a flat earth.
"why don't mirrors have people living inside them" Frankly that's at least possible unlike the Earth being flat. 🤣
I used to be a land surveyor and I will tell you one thing. If we EVER brought back data and the civil engineering department decided that the 7 miles of line that we cut to install monuments for a construction project and all the money and time and work to gather the data points and elevations and control points we worked on just to have them not take into consideration the curvature of the earth……the company I worked for would have been probably sued and never ever received any more projects to bid on again. The thought is ludicrous.
I’m so glad that you made a video depicting the fact of the Land Surveyors work. I have not surveyed in over 8 years and I have never become an actual licensed Surveyor in the United States, but I was a Rodman and an Instrument man for over 10 years and I am pretty positive that the Earth has not flattened out since then. I unfortunately got pretty sick and had to stop, but I can tell you I learned enormous amounts of information about geography and the land and in CT the Northing and Southing grid system they use and I couldn’t help myself to be curious about how the Flat Earth individual thinks. Once you get a grasp on Land Surveying there’s no way that any person with a brain could think the Earth is flat. But I still stick to my guns and believe that it truly is a mental illness and I really don’t think it can be cured.
The cult leaders in the FE world are merely doing it for the money they make off the FE sheep who follow them.
Yeah a lot of people chalk up indoctrination and/or ignorance to mental illness. Mentally ill people can certainly be flat earthers but denying the earths curvature isn't mental illness. It's just indoctrination and cognitive bias.
Gravity surveys would have a lot more weird corrections. Correcting for the location on a Geoid is bad enough but if the earth has some disk or conic shape?
I agree with the mental illness totally. I believe it is a form of the inability to recognize true shapes and BASIC SENSORY distortions. The immense size of the earth is beyond their comprehension level; where distance equals gradual changes. That, it is hard to explain to their own senses what is going on outside what they can feel. Others, however knows the truth and are perpetrating the conspiracies to make money off those who they deem "believers"and vulnerable. That would make them "Charlatans". The lowest form of TH-cam bottom feeders. As for the Earth, It is Round, Curves, a Sphere, and a place of marvel to explore many scientific things on a daily basis. Being a Surveyor is a awesome job to have and it explains more that just the math of these questions but the actual daily proof in engineering marvels.
It's cognitive dissonance. It's what happens when new information conflicts with beliefs. I'm not sure that it is impossible to help a person to snap out of the cult mentality. But it is difficult.
The only thing flat earthers fear, is sphere itself.
Good pun. Have a like!
yeah this should have more likes... it's a clever play on the word "flat" because the earth isn't flat at all most likely
@@notimportant3686 Most likely? wdym most likely?
@notimportant3686 “most likely”… are you uncertain as to the curvature of the earth?
@@b1ff is this really what you focused on?
As someone with two civil engineers in the family, I found this fascinating. Unfortunately I expect a flat earther to actually take a surveying course around the same time they get around to actually doing some celestial navigation. 😆
The thing is that flat-earthers tend not to have the requisite background in basic geometry and algebra to even BEGIN a surveying course.
😂😂😂
Unfortunately surveying is a bit of a grey term and anyone could call themselves a surveyor.
Then you even get chartered surveyors (I think there may be 2 different bodies you can obtain chartered status from iirc) that have only gone through a shorter college course or apprenticeship. I think you can also do a one year course if you already have a bachelor’s degree.
Unlike becoming a chartered engineer where the minimum qualification before experience was changed to a 4 (or 5 year degree course in Scotland) like a MEng.
Then you get building surveyors and quantity surveyors.
It may be that civil engineering surveyors require the same qualifications as the ICE chartered engineers I.e. an MEng or 4 year degree.
In other words it wouldn’t surprise me if you could find someone who calls themselves a surveyor and thinks the earth is flat but has never touched a theodolite or other surveying instrument in their lives. Not that I can speak as I only briefly touched upon their use and used one during the general part of my engineering degree course.
It's amazing how many round earthers lie to defend a lie.
Engineering problems faced when trying to build the London tunnel 31.5 miles long. Curve calculator says should be behind 660 feet of curve.
Ordnance survey national grid reference system (bng) didn't work.
They accounted for 20 cm per km due to the curvature of earth.
Even by longitude and latitude by using spherical calculations they could be out by as much as 200 metres. As maps are flat the engineers trying use calculations of a spherical earth via a flat map.
If this seems excessive than pop along to Greenwich and stand on the prime meridian, pulling out a Gps receiver it'll tell you your 102 metres to the east of the meridian because it uses a different mapping system to old paler maps
Three different points where taken using three different coordinator system proven to be reliable. All three calculations contradicted curve on a flat map.
This is from Ian visits. Com . Uk
@@ajm5007 please show us your earth to sun calculations using a sextant.
I have been a licensed professional surveyor in the US for 50 years. I can tell you without a doubt, the earth is not flat. I have run differential levels for miles and then measured over those same miles with a total station (theodolite and electronic distance measure device combined). You have to take into consideration the curvature of the earth to correct for the zenith angles measured.
Curvature off the earth of curvature in the earth?
@@Simplygreatstuff Go and study surveying.
@@Simplygreatstuff Why can't you accept that a professional surveyor of 50 years understands the difference between curvature of the earth and local hills and valleys?
@@gbisaga easy answer: he is dishonest.
@@KeithMilner so how many people have to be in on the conspiracy, and to what end? there is no difference to anything, except some technical jobs, betwene a globe and a disc.
there is no reason to want a globe over a disc or vica versa.
so whats the point of the conspiracy?
As an amateur astronomer, i rely on the round and rotating earth every time I observe. My mounts, my star charts, my planisphere…none of it would work on a flat earth.
Exactly
Yep. Understanding astronomy makes flat Earth look like dividing by zero. Then there's radio astronomy, seismology, geology. Just.. full stop.
Nah, all us amateur astronomers are paid off by NASA
And the cia made all the mounts
And the fbi made the telescopes
And the only camera that is safe from the dod is the p1000
You forget ....your balls
@@motokid6008 Yep! Same thing with Aerospace Engineering. Aircraft navigation and rocket guidance only make sense on a spherical earth.
You sir, are the creme de la crop when it comes to flat earth debunking, not only you have managed to bring out fresh arguments against already debunked flat earth videos, which made them fun to watch even if I had already watched them for the 4th or 5th time, but also in my opinion, your arguments against the flat earth are the best and better researched and backed up arguments of any flat earth debunker I can think of.
Excellent work!
Agreed, unfortunately most flat earth debunkers end up just laughing and pointing fingers as the flerfers themselves, which just makes them no better than the flat earthers really
I agree, he's also really respectful about it all. Complete opposite to flat earth believers.
@@GummieI I disagree slightly here, because earth is such a well established fact that it’s in the flerts to provide evidence and when they don’t provide it and assert things without evidence it’s just fitting to dismiss their assertions without evidence, so I really don’t have a problem with debunkers that just point and laugh, but I do like sometimes for evidence to be presented anyways, hence why I like Dave here.
@@alejandrovallejo4330 Laughing and pointing fingers at others are NOT the same as dismissing their claims, it is straight up rude, and if anything only fosters the flerfers to believe in their false facts even more
@@GummieI it is dismissing their claims, it may be rude, but it is dismissing them. And yeah, they may get more into their beliefs, but they are a very small set of people and they won’t change their beliefs, regardless of what you show them, so it really makes no difference. But like I said, I do enjoy more the debunkers that are kinder and use real evidence, but I have no problem with those that point and laugh, although I’ve never seen a debunker that does only that, all I have seen do provide reasons why flerts are wrong.
You might also consider that VHF and UHF radio signals are often described as "line of sight" because the transmissions, unlike those of shortwave or HF, are not reflected back to earth by the ionosphere and even the most powerful signals go off into space when the earth curves away underneath. The radio horizon is somewhat greater than the visual horizon for technical reasons (antenna height, etc.), and there are things like tropospheric ducting and sporadic E propagation, but in general, the thumbnail rule is correct: line of sight. If the earth were flat, V/UHF signals could reach across the planet. They don't.
I mean, if it was flat you'd be able to see laser beams across the plane, and you'd be able to see the top of Everest from everywhere..
@@kahlzun That is a good point, but remember that flat earth frauds have been doing this a long time, and they would probably respond that long distance line of visual sight is blocked by dust, weather or elves. But you raise an interesting question of what the horizon should look like on a flat earth. It should never be level and "clean" because some mountains or clouds should always be visible.
That's why I suggested VHF radio frequencies, which are not attenuated by weather or dust, unlike visual sight lines. Whether one watt or 1,500 watts, with a few exceptions, its always line of sight because of earth curvature.
@@kahlzunthat just simply is not true. At all.
@@Flat-Bob sure it would. On top of that the sun and moon would be visible in the sky 24/7.
@@Requiem4aDr3Am No, I'm sorry you're just simply wrong. There's places in Hollywood where you can't even see the Hollywood sign on the mountainside because of all the smog and moisture in the air from just a few miles let alone several hundred or thousand miles. This is 100 percent fact. Even if the earth was flat, you still would not be able to see infinitely far. Objectively. Also, once you get so far away from something, its angular resolution would prevent you from seeing it. This is just how the optics work in the human body. That's the same reason why you can't see a boat several miles away from you with the naked eye, but you can take a high zoom camera and bring it back into view... because you can not see infinitely far, even on a flat earth... now you can deny this fact if you want to. But it's extremely ignorant to hold that stance. 🙄
Fortunately, engineers in the US can no longer perform boundary surveying without a surveyor's license. Most of them didn't have the necessary education in boundary and legal principles to make proper decisions and usually tried to apply engineering methodology to boundary surveying which resulted in countless boundary problems that we'll be trying to deal with forever.
They're restricted to design and topographic surveying now.
If that. I currently work in an engineering firm and only us survey techs will do the topo survey and process the data for a base map they can use for their design. All of the engineers I've worked with were only on a survey crew during an internship.
In my 24 years of land surveying, to become a RPLS (Registered Professional Land Surveyor) is more intense than that of the CEs (Civil Engineers) as the general task of surveying land requires an astute knowledge and familiarity of the types of evidence you will encounter to substantiate a decision upon a boundary in question. All documents pertaining to the timeline of the tract, from since its creation, must be given its gravity as each instance can have an affect on how the property line is perceived among pertinent parties.
For each state there is a minimum requirement to meet the criteria of even being considered a RPLS. Whereas, one candidate must have the education associated with land surveying which is ascertained via the state's respective testing to achieve the credential (Calculative, Legal, and Practical). Also, you must have three registered surveyors vouch for you competency and sign a legal document claiming you have had the experience you are claiming.
That was really interesting. Thanks.
I see plenty of boundary surveyors dck up mainly section corners. It's all theory and "prove me wrong". I'm eligible for both licenses but finding a potential second career trading securities as I stand around in the woods waiting for satellites to fix.
"All documents pertaining to the timeline of the tract, from since its creation, must be given its gravity as each instance can have an affect on how the property line is perceived among pertinent parties."
Lol nobody pays for that. Just survey the legal description. More surveys, title searches, and attorneys will be paid for if somebody gets a stick up theirs. Only now with all the data one can keep track of on the same coordinate system it is no thing for me to see big overlaps of parcels that never used to get measured at the same time. But if each set of monuments matches its own legal world and you didn't put them there, what can you do? Disclaimers like "as monumented", "as occupied" are your friend.
As a civil engineer I did have to take surveying in college (40 plus years ago). I went to school in Ohio and the example of doing level 3 surveying (not taking into account curvature) were the small county roads where about every 10 miles they made the correction at an intersection. These never lined up across the road and had an offset. I think a lot of these intersections have been tweeked but you can still run into them occasionally.
As a chartered Civil Engineer I can confirm that we are part of a consp..... no wait
Great video, and partially how I got into viewing how daft are flat earther videos. Years ago I stumbled into a discussion where one side was saying engineering drawings proved flat earth, and I felt compelled to jump in and point out it was in fact the opposite. The conversation (loons typing furiously in capital letters) soon turned to surveying and I used the vertical angle point you raise in your video.
I was at Uni in the 90's and had a fresh off the press Third edition of Surveying for Engineers which was my companion for the first 2 years of my degree. I did a little surveying professionally, but mainly doing checks on site. At Uni I was taught the basics on a theodolite and progressed to NAl (New Automatic Level) and EDM (Electronic Distance Measure). When setting up stations for the first time we were asked that specific question why to stations set up 90 degrees to the horizontal had two different vertical angles to the level. You would be amazed at how little you need to move the instrument, about 10m, to pick up a difference on an EDM.
Once I had pointed this out to the flefrs they saw the error of their ways and went on to have productive live....no wait :D
PS Bit scary but this was 30 years ago so happy for any real surveyor to correct me :)
Of course, a FLERF will claim that ALL the surveyors have bought into the conspiracy 😞. I took a beginning survey course as part of my Engineering Geology degree. Since it was an introductory course, we were told we would not take into account the curvature of the earth as our survey distances were short - basically on campus. More advanced courses would take curvature into account, but we weren't training to be surveyors, we were just being introduced to survey concepts and how the instruments. work. That was 40 years ago and I still remember this course and how much I enjoyed being a nerd on campus surveying around the University. Since our campus was at the base of a mountain, we also discussed how some early surveys were wrong because of the use of plumb bobs, which were used to level early survey equipment, would be off a bit while surveying in mountainous areas due to gravity - yet another FLERF debunk. Say hi to Rusty!
So all they have to do is have 1 flat earther join up and secretly record the part where they tell everyone they know the world is flat but they have to tell everyone that it is round or else they cant graduate.
I love the idea of a few thousand people knowing about it and all of them are keeping it a secret an noone ever talks about it by accident.
It's more like 99.99% of people are on the conspiracy. Everyone that isn't a flat earther....
@@Iamimgainary_sqrt-1_i "I love the idea of a few thousand people knowing about it and all of them are keeping it a secret an noone ever talks about it by accident."
This is the paradox that destroys every single conspiracy theory from FE to moon landings to chemtrails to 9/11 to anti-vaxx to alien contact and all the rest. Each of them requires such a vast number of people to hold to the secret that we know, empirically that would be impossible.
I live near a CEGEP, between high school and university, and it have a civil engineering course. Every year, there are teams of students practising in the neighbourhood. The area they cover is large enough for the curvature to be notable. They must have measured it within 0.001mm.
The Great Trigonometric Survey of India was so accurate that not only did it show the Earth is curved, but how much that curvature (actually closer to an oblate spheroid) deviated from a perfect sphere.
I live within driving distance of Pike's Peak in Colorado, USA, and I have done angle measurements of distant objects compared to the celestial horizon. All distant objects appear lower than they should if Earth were flat. While it's hard to see Earth's curvature if you expect it to be in the orientation of a steering wheel, it's easy to see if you look for it in the orientation of a bicycle wheel.
You're in Colorado? That's one of our Conspiracy Headquarters. You can promote flat earth, underground cities, sky squares, and mole people. Also; I think you can get high there. Dude; loosen up, smoke some weed, and binge some X Files...I can't even pronounce the word "Trigonometric" in my head.
Any planet with a decent rotation speed is oblate spheroid. That’s just physics.
@@WCDavis-cl7si trih-guh-nuh-metric
I mean you really don't need much accuracy to detect it.
Not too many flat Earther jokes are funny, but I think this one's pretty good.
Flat Earther dies, goes to Heaven, meets God.
Flat Earther: "The Earth really is flat, isn't it?"
God: "No, it's a globe, just as the scientists say."
Flat Earther: "Wow, I didn't know the conspiracy went _this deep!"_
This is actually a good reminder that the best way to deal with these people is to utterly ignore them.
Something has broken in them. They cannot and do not want to trust authority. They don’t want the truth.
@@Awesomes007 yeah honestly most of these people started out with a deep distrust of the government and have let that leak into the rest of their beliefs about the world. I had a conversation with my grilfriend's cousin about it. I told him that the concept of a flat earth was so easily proved wrong, and that if there is any conspiracy it is, "why are people promoting a theory to distract people who don't trust the government?" That got him thinking, so in my opinion that is the only way to convince them. Show them the proof and then go, "why are they trying to trick you into focusing on something that makes everyone around you think you are crazy or stupid?"
@@Awesomes007 it's not about authority, who lies all the time. It's about not be able to compute 2 cells together, the logic is completely broken. Mostly, because people actually went to school, where their logic is suppressed in exchange for obedience. When these schooled people finally get out and stop trusting authority, all they have left is broken brain without the ability of critical thinking, always looking for someone to follow. Schools became the tool of making stupid people. Those who actually have capable parents and teachers who promote self reflection and self evaluation, actually are not sensitive neither to the authority's lies neither to the dumb unlogical theory like FET.
@@Awesomes007 They are Dubay's 100,000. Selected the same way as McNamara's 100,000.
@@Awesomes007 reminded of Jesus's parable of the rich man and Lazarus. The rich man asked to have Lazarus sent back to warn his family. Abraham replied that they have Abraham and the prophets and if they don't believe what they already have, a dead man rising won't convince them.
I worked on a land surveying team in the 90s. Accuracy is everything. That’s why GPS could not be used directly, it was too fuzzy. Being 1cm off at one corner of a property line gets hugely magnified if the area being surveyed is large at all.
Edit: Apparently GPS is used now in surveying, mea culpa.
according to the surveyor GPS is so accurate now, when i had my property surveyed last year, they only used GPS to set markers on the side of the mountain.
It ain't the 90's now, Lad!
There is actually new equipment that is rapidly replacing the more traditional theodolite that uses LIDAR and the extremely accurate GPS data now available.
Known as a 'Total Station' it can do with one surveyor/operator in a single day what up until very recently required a team to do over multiple days.
GPS is the standard these days, unless you're in a dense urban area with skyscrapers blocking the equipment from satellite signals. I'm at a 300+ acre park, and we're accurate to .01 feet at any location using a Total Station for both directions - as-built and topos, and for setting construction staking.
There are surveying poles (donno how they are actually called), that accumulate positional data from multiple satellite navigation systems (like GPS, GLONAS, Galileo, BeiDou, etc) at the same time. This allows VERY precise surveying. On top of that, some of them use local phone towers or dedicated radio towers. Also tilt compensation and so on.
Our property got surveyed by a tool with accuracy under 0,125m³ (or Hz 3 mm + 0.5 ppm / V 5 mm + 0.5 ppm), and it's from ~6 years ago.
Now i understand that the leaning tower in Italy was surveyed by a flat earther. Brilliant 😂
lol
@@syaondriyou have done it found the true shape!
Leaning tower of Pisa*
@@syaondriwith extra cheese? 🧐😂
@@TheSacredCowtipper88leaning tower of pizza
I navigated ships in the Navy. Ships follow curved paths when crossing oceans because the Earth is curved. Now I'm a professional engineer. Of course that means I had to take classes in surveying. Of course surveyors take curvature into account.
You don’t even have to be part of the Navy. Just taking part in an Boy Scout Orienteering course is enough. These fools would be the ones that would get themselves lost.
For the love of God, water and earth are NOT twins. Ever heard of a seaPLANE or airPLANE?
@@jackk1583 since I have worked as a navigator and as a surveyor and both account for curvature then the surface of the Earth is curved. Pilots do as well according to the pilots who have commented here.
I used to work at a private charter company. I never got my license but I have alot of right seat time and know how to operate a few planes very well. Cessna 152,172, 182RG and the hot rod 210. Also the Beechcraft Baron, the King Air C90, E90, F90 and 200. I put the F90 into a parabolic arc where we all floated inside the plane for a few seconds. I also know how to fly by instruments only. There’s so many things that disprove FE just in airplane instruments. The main ones being the gyroscopes.
How about that FE guy named Bob that used a laser gyroscope to prove the earth didn’t rotate but instead it showed that the earth rotates at 15 degrees per hour. 15 degrees x 24 (hours) = 360 degrees. He didn’t know he was being recorded and he said to another guy that if this got out, it would look really bad for them. They are a bunch of charlatans IMO if they are making money off of people. That gyroscope cost them around $20,000 too. Read up on how they work and you will hopefully understand.
@@FlyinZX10R The Sun moves by degrees. Period.
I'm a geodetic trained surveyor from the military and now I'm a licensed land surveyor in Virginia of course a construction site would not need to adjust for curvature but let me assure you you can't cover any distance at all without correcting for curvature or your survey won't close.
I'm Virginia based as well. I worked as a Surveying Technician along with State Licensed Surveyors. I never got to take part in any Geodetic Surveys, mostly just construction, topos, and property surveys. I would like to learn more about Geodetic Surveying, can you recommend semi-quick way that would deepen my knowledge of Geodetics?
I would suggest reading up on Everest (yes, the mountain is named after him). He was engaged to survey the Indian subcontinent for the British Empire in the 1800s. His measurements were remarkably accurate and we can still read his notebooks today. And you can quite literally calculate the curvature of the Earth from his measurements.
Curiously Everest didn’t like having the mountain named after him because he considered it disrespectful to the Indians who already had a name for it.
Also the purpose of the survey was to get a better measurement of earth curvature.
Fun fact: Sir George Everest objected to having a mountain named after him on on the grounds that the local people would find it difficult to pronounce, and it could not easily be written in Hindi.
But yes, Everest (and a shoutout to his French counterpart Delambre who did much the same thing independently) calculated the difference between the radius of the Earth at the pole and that at the equator. Everest's estimate of the relative difference was 1/300.8. This is remarkably close to the modern figure which is around 1/298.257.
There is a limit on what you can measure, because at this level of precision, the Earth isn't a perfect spheroid any more due to mountains and stuff. So to get more precision, we typically define an artificial reference spheroid, and then take measurements relative to that.
@@dunningkruger-o1x yes. This was a part of solving the longitude problem. They set a very practice clock at one end of the Himalayan Mountains then they surveyed the distance across it then measured how much of a difference there was between the time of noon at one end and the time at noon at the other end. Knowing the distance traveled + the time offset allows you to calculate the curvature of the earth.
@@qtheplatypus so assuming you got the story right, typos and all (practice vs precise) .. the difference in time == circumference. Sounds like a leap in logic - citation?
@@dunningkruger-o1x as you move east sun reaches high noon earlier relative to your starting point. 360 degrees of longitude = 24 hours of time offset. So 1 hour of time offset = 15 degrees of longitude. Then by measuring the chord distance between the start and end and using the clocks to measure the degree of longitude difference you can calculate the circumference of the earth.
Granted, I taught school and am not a surveyor but I would not call the formulas complex math in the least.
If I recall, they drilled the Chunnel from both Dover and Calais to meet in the middle. And they did! Here is survey work which worked at scale needed to get curvature compensations right.
heck, people have been building tunnels for thousands of years
@@victorfinberg8595 though rarely of that length.
@@victorfinberg8595and to "compensate for the curve" one only has to use a BUBBLE LEVEL.
No calculations required!
The Flerfs don't even understand that simple concept.
These are flat-Earthers we're talking about. For them, even right-angle trigonometry would often be complex math. If there's even a single flat-Earther who sees general triangle trigonometry as simple (and actually understands it) then I'd be very surprised.
Of course a *real* flat-earther would argue that:
1. They made the Chunnel curved as part of a world-wide, millennia-long, no-rational-reason conspiracy
2. It's not actually curved because "I'm looking at it from my car or in this photos"
3. Both
This channel is so good. Some of the most persuasive and most non-confrontational debunks I've ever seen on the platform. Probably among the best for actual deradicalization of flat earthers. I hope many of them watch and take your arguments to heart.
"I hope many of them watch and take your arguments to heart."
Har-de-har-har surely you jest 😁 - being a FE TH-camr is a lucrative business!
"take your arguments to heart."
FE isn't about truth or shapes. It's about them and their feelings of inferiority. They "learn" by-rote all their garbage to trick slow people into thinking they are smart. They won't give that up because of an argument they cannot debunk. They are already in denial.
The first thing a flat earther gives you when you school them on anything and then ask them to refute you, is their hatred.
I like the way Sci Man Dan takes the piss out of the flerfs.
Dave is a liar as conmandan and the lying scientific uncle
A poignant note from the travelcroc web page which should challenge flat earthers:
"Can you see Cuba from Key West with binoculars?
The fact that Cuba is only 90 miles away from Key West makes people sure that they could see Cuba as long as they had a high-powered telescope. But the problem is not in your eyesight or your tools. The problem is that Cuba is below the horizon as the earth curves.
Every now and then people claim that they managed to see Havana’s city lights at night, but they have failed to prove their claim."
Uh oh! Our secret’s out! I was a partner in a land surveying firm for 13 years in the state of Tennessee, USA. I started out working as a professional draftsman and instrument-man (I sat up and operated the theodolite). It’s true that land surveying is remarkably accurate. We typically aimed for a thousandth of an inch tolerance in our traverses and other measurements. It’s also true that while surveying the curvature of the Earth was not a major concern most of the time. The reason is, curvature would typically only come into play when we were surveying something like a large urban building complex requiring extreme accuracy in measure and layout or when surveying a very large plot of land (such as a farm of several hundred acres). Most land surveying (at least where I worked) amounts to relatively small plots of land, small enough so the Earth’s curvature doesn’t factor in that much. In those smaller surveys, if you’re reducing your traverse to horizontal and averaging any accumulated error throughout the traverse then the Earth’s curvature is taken care of in those calculations. Having said all that, I can attest that the Earth is most definitely, beyond any reasonable doubt, NOT FLAT. The Earth we live on, and the one I surveyed, is a big beautiful sphere! Or oblate spheroid to be more precise. It’s round. The Earth has been round for as long as people have walked it’s surface, sailed its oceans, flown through, and orbited above, its atmosphere. And it’ll likely remain round no matter how many misguided folks choose to believe it’s flat.
You said it. For most people and most local practical problems, we can regard the Earth as being flat. But it's equally obviously not flat, when it comes to navigation, map making, astrononmy, or simply accurately picturing the Universe as a whole.
Actually it had not been round forever. It was a cube up until last Thursday.
I appreciate honesty in beginning of this comment. Then I saw a lot of statements of belief in the end.
So to summarise you don't account for curvature.
@@ShropshireFox That depends on the limits of your brief.
"No amount of evidence will ever persuade an idiot"
- Mark Twain
I'm still not convinced... lol
see what I did there? :)
@@tjjones621 I can't read sarcasm...
😂😂😂
it will produce a ton of content, though.
FAKE GLOBE: The video CONVEX EARTH THE DOCUMENTARY (on the Convex Earth youtube channel) has 7 types of scientific field experiments that prove the total ABSENCE of curvature on the surface of oceans, dams and large lakes. That's enough, it's conclusive, without curvature the globe and geoid shapes are impossible. With this conclusion, hundreds of questions arise, but obviously no unanswered question will create curvature on Earth.
The globe shape is embedded in the world education system so that there is no room for questioning. But how could the Earth be a globe if there is no curvature?
Engineering and physics faculties, for example, present calculations that start from the accepted premise of a globe, such as Eratosthenes' experiment, or images from space agencies that we have no way of going into space to redo and check.
There is NO scientific field experiment in academic science that proves the supposed curvature of the Earth for scientists, researchers, professors and students to redo and check. We only find theories or explanations that start from the accepted premise of being a globe, as Eratothenes did.
There are opinions and criticisms about the experiments in the Convex Earth Documentary, but no one in the world has managed to prove the supposed curvature of the Earth by reproducing the experiments.
Yes, world leaders know that the Earth is not a globe, but they have no interest in making it known to the public.
The technical data of the experiments can be found on the Convex Earth channel on youtube under the title:
CONVEX EARTH TECHNICAL DATA
9:38 It's worth pointing out that the Ordnance Survey was founded the year after the completion of the Anglo-French Survey (1784-1790) which literally measured the curvature of the Earth (with surveying equipment). The best bit is that the AFS published its data, calculations and conclusions, and that document is available online for free. That means anyone could theoretically refute it if they wanted. I seriously doubt any flat earther is going to attempt that, but you never know...
Much the same way they continue to ignore the many pictures of the earth available online taken during the Apollo missions. It doesn't validate their claims, so they ignore it. Willful Ignorance and Self-Deception is strong with the weak minded ...
Why are there no "flat earth" Surveyors or Sailors? Because we either use or rely on the fact that the Earth is a sphere. Flat earth idiocy would be fatal in either of those two activities.
PS: I am a retired Surveyor/Cost/Project Manager and still (at 77) a regular sailor.
Disregarding the flat-earth V globe-earth aspect, these are always such educational videos. I'm a "globe-tard", but I still watch these because I come away with some new bit -- or bits -- of information that I didn't have.
That's probably true for all the people who love learning and knowledge itself. I think argument is a great way to increase one's understanding. I used to believe in the globe, and now I utterly know, through personal testing of arguments, that it's a globe.
Wrong ideas are useful in the sense that through disproving them you have to apply knowledge in an educational way. That's also why a lot of conspiracy theories get used in education as examples because in figuring out how they're wrong you learn a lot about the subject itself.
I'm from Saskatchewan, Canada. The initial surveyors measured fields into sections which are 1 mile square and equal 640 acres. They had to add a correction line every 24 miles going north to correct for the earth's curvature. The correction is ~ 1 mile. The northbound roads all jig West by a mile every 24 miles going northward. Kind of proves a spherical earth.
how does that prove anything?
Miles? In Canada? Why, you're not from Saskatchewan at all!
@@whatelseison8970 Obviously, they did the measurements long ago, before Canada adopted the metric system. You must be a young person who thinks the world has always been the way it is now. Hahahahahahaha you will learn that your "normal" is not normal, in a few decades.
@@bob2233445 It proves the curvature. if you start equal distant lines at the equator and head north, they meet at the north pole. The further you are north, the more difference it makes. I live in South Dakota and the road a couple miles north of me has a correction line for the same reason.
@@whatelseison8970 They didn't use metric when those roads were initially surveyed and laid-down over a century ago.
"It is a disappointing marriage of egotism and willful ignorance." Well said, The RealTacCom.
Words borne of frustration, straight from the heart.
I find it so funny when Flat-Earthers tirelessly parrot 'the Earth is level', even though according to surveyors level lines are curved. 😂
I mean just answer with "you're right! Level is curved!" 😂
Oddly enough, I once had a lengthy conversation with a guy (he was using a pseudonym) with a flat earther who claimed to be a surveyor. He knew nothing about geodetic surveying, of course. He also claimed that he surveyed large sections of land and that it was evidence of flat earth. Of course, he could well have been lying. I have found that they tend to lie a lot. After all, it often is said: #GottaLieToFlerf
Sounds like rayism24.
@@b0b5m1th Might be the same guy...or not. Whomever it was used a different pseudonym on Quora.
Was a while back now but I saw a TH-cam by a flerf surveyor who used his 'qualifications' to prove the earth is flat.
The land he surveyed lives in canada, you wouldn't know it
@@d.charlespyle a lot of people say flat earthers make sock puppet accounts on social media to like and comment on their own posts, using the exact same phrases copied and pasted. It wouldn't be surprising if the two of you had talked to the same guy with different names.
I saw a graphic example of the curvature - decades ago, standing on the wharf at Omoka in Penrhyn lagoon in the northern Cook Islands, the tops of the coconut palms at Te Tautua the other side of the lagoon nine miles away are just peeking over the horizon. I did a back-of-the-envelope calculation of their height (you only need Pythagoras) - assuming R=4000 miles, they worked out at about 50 feet from memory. Later on we went across the lagoon in a boat and sure enough the rest of the trees and the village came into view. I didn't have a tape measure or a local volunteer to measure their height directly but but fifty feet looked about right - but then I would never have believed that anyone would seriously question the curvature of the earth in this century.
I have done civil engineering, I've worked on various construction projects from roads, structures to renewable projects through to the mining industry. I commented on one of SciMan Dan's video that briefly touched on this. We do account for curvature. On a some projects such as a small free standing structure it is nearly negligible but bridge construction and subsurface tunnels it would create a huge problem.
You don't need to do that for most bridges and tunnels.
Bruh you literally just tried to “wElL AkSHuaLlY” an engineer about their own job.
@Mrcake0103 only because there are some keyboard engineers, physicist, mathematics and someone that can breathe
@@MilwaukeeF40C ok Mr we make mistakes and live with it engineer
@Mrcake0103 and I'm entitled to whell actually. What about you?
My Father was a Chief Surveyor for the Ordnance Survey in the 60s, 70s, 80s and 90s,. He and his teams mapped the whole of the UK one team from the North to South and the other from South to North, and he told me that they had to account for the curvature of the Earth. Their maps were less than a quarter of an inch out in the two teams, which is pretty damn good. His name was Ronald Charles Layton, should you care to find out if he existed or not! He died in 2013 alas, he was a fine man. I still have some books and a beautiful clinometer from 1911....
He was in the Royal Engineers in the 50s, and did surveying then. I have books from that era too.....military...
What an incredible legacy your father left.
applause to your father and his team
Len Beadell and the Gunbarrel Highway Construction Crew are a great story, surveyor from 1946 onwards built a whole ton of outback roads by essentially hand surveying the lot, and co-ordinating teams from each direction of what was being built.
Does a clinometer measure the incline of stuff?
One thing I've noticed about Flat Earth arguments is that the Flat Earthers fail to realize that "flat" and "level" are not the same thing. Flat means the surface is is plane. Level means that the surface is perpendicular to the force of gravity. Biiiiig difference when you get to a surface that's over a half a mile long.
Jody, retired Civil Engineer
yeah jody- the state of Kansas is 'flatter than a pancake,' ZERO curvature, impossible on a ball. ImpossiBALL.
And btw, its calls sea LEVEL, not sea curvature. Facts are damning to the ball theory.
@@jackk1583 Like the British National Grid, most US states have their own map grids, called "state planes". Kansas statute Chapter 58, Article 20a states:
The "Kansas coordinate system of 1983 north zone (zone code 1501)" is a Lambert conformal conic projection of the North American datum of 1983, having standard parallels at north latitudes 38 degrees 43 minutes and 39 degrees 47 minutes along which parallels the scale shall be exact. The origin of coordinates is at the intersection of the meridian 98 degrees zero minutes west of Greenwich and the parallel 38 degrees 20 minutes north latitude. This origin is given the coordinates: N = 0 meters and E = 400,000 meters.
There's a lot to unpack here, but it defines two standard parallels, along which the scales are exact. Why might it have to specify that? Because when you are not on those parallels, the scale is NOT exact.
By the way, did you also catch the words "north zone"? That's because Kansas is split into two zones, north and south. The state is big enough that the distortion caused by the curvature of the Earth is too large for accurately defining property boundaries, if you were to use a single Lambert conformal conic or transverse Mercator projection.
@@jackk1583 look a pancake through a MICROSCOPE and it looks VERY bumpy.
THAT is what they ACTUALLY SAID.
they did NOT say earth is flat.
AND why do you think it's called sea LEVEL and not sea FLAT?
your CULT has ZERO explanation for how water could EVER be "level", therefore LEVEL WATER PROVES THE GLOBE.
ALL facts utterly destroy all flat earth FANTASIES.
@@jackk1583 You must have never been to Kansas. It's not "flat as a pancake" at all. And, actually "sea level" is a great comparison, as one of the definitions of level is a "surface everywhere at right angles to the plumb line" and a plumb line always points toward the center of the earth. So, seat level is a surface everywhere at right angles to a line pointing toward the center of the earth, and, so, is, curved following the surface of the earth.
@@jodyhuneycutt I'm so glad that the Creator gifted mankind with common sense to freely use, if we would but but avail, but no, men choose to play the ostrich, burying the head behind unprovable theories and endless mathematical formulas which only darken the minds of the innocent.
There is no spinning ball. No man has seen it, except for assumption. Pick a lake, any lake. Still as death with zero curve or bendy water. It is distressing to even have this conversation.
Clouds move over a still earth. The sun moves over a still earth. The moon does not borrow its light from the sun. Just as it is, and just as it appears.
I think the most interesting bit of the _transverse_ Mercator, as used by Ordnance Survey, is that they use the _meridian_ of 2 deg West in the same way as the _equator_ in the ordinary Mercator. So, areas do not grow towards north or south, but towards east and west. Because the UK is not as wide as it is tall, distortion is kept smaller this way than if they had used normal Mercator (even if that normal Mercator had used 49 deg North as its 'equator').
Found the pdf by the way; smashing read! Thanks.
This is the "Chudley Building Construction Handbook" of surveying that I used during my BTEC in Construction I did back in 1999. These people could just rent a couple of levels/theodolites and test this for themselves by pointing them at each other. Provided you can level the devise then you are good to go.
one of them already rented a very precise laser gyroscope and measured a 15 degree per hour drift and was still a flat earther, i doubt them seeing it with their own eyes would get them believe the earth is round
Then they would say the theodolites are built for the conspiracy as well
@@jrexx100 Thanks Bob, RIP.
There actually was a surveyor that was on oakley's panel a bunch of times and had joined FECore. But after having conversations with some of the more well known surveyors that have been involved in the discussion about flat earth he went out and measured himself, confirmed curvature of the earth, and shared that fact on a live show on oakley's channel which also had the head of FECore on it at the time. The flerfs immediate reaction was that they had been betrayed. They removed him from FECore and oakley's panel for good.
@@Requiem4aDr3Am "They removed him from FECore and oakley's panel for good."
How odd, I wonder what they were scared of?
A quick correction as someone who is in the Land Surveying profession, Transverse Mercator is not Mercator. It is almost the opposite, things get more distorted as you move east and west. It holds north and south distances along its central meridian as being equidistant.
But, but the projection is indeed Mercator, only the cylinder is ,well, transverse, instead of parallel to the axis of revolution of the Earth. You would use the same formulas, albeit adjusted, in order to calculate coordinates
If a flat earther became a surveyor he would read that line about not normally needing to account for curve under 120m and would ensure all his tests were under that scale. Then he would cite how he's an expert. I've seen too many grifter flat earthers who will go WAY out of their way to make sure that the tests confirm their bias for their viewers. I've also seen them create a "margin of error" that is wide enough to accept R as a result so that they can say their test passed when it measured R instead of horizontal.
Of course they all do. They are just following in the footsteps of the guy they all crib from, Samuel Rowbotham. It’s not about honest inquiry and it never was.
I wrote the navigation system test plan for a USAF trainer. The system performance specified in the contract required that the system comprehend Earth's curvature. So while I can't personally confirm the curvature of the Earth, I can confidently say that the USAF trains pilots that the earth is an oblate spheroid.
I'm in Australia and it's very obvious that it's a globe Earth, as I can see the path of the Sun everyday and the direction of rise and set.
If you've spent time outdoors at night, you'll also notice the Southern Cross like a "24" hour clock hand during the night rotating about the Southern axial of rotation point.
But there are still people in Australia that believe in a flat earth, they have no clue which direction is which either. This despite the path of the Sun being totally inverted compared to the flat earth model.
Australian here too. I would dearly love one day to set up an experiment between someone in Sydney, and someone in Perth who can both go out at night at the same moment in time with a compass, and camera (and possibly some well known landmarks around them), and show that the Southern Cross points directly south by comparing against the compass and any aligning any landmarks in the camera view. That experiment alone would completely destroy flat earth, as it would be completely impossible using their model, but totally explainable on a globe. Problem is, I am in Darwin, halfway between, longitude wise, but I'd like to get the widest spread of longitude lines possible on our continent for this 'experiment'.
Is funny because some flat earthers have said that Australia isn’t real
@@critickmanThey've also said, quite vehemently, that a shadow can never point south.
I run a surveying business now but when I started surveying at 18 years old the first thing I learnt was levelling and the curvature of the earth. When traversing long distances we never take readings further than 120m-150m due to errors which then show up on the closed loop traverse results.
my father in law was a surveyor on the resurvey of the mason dixon line in the 60s.
This is basically what confused Lovecraft so much he kept going on about Non-Euclidian Geometry when describing his impossibly ancient civilisations. But Everything on the planet is built that way because we're not on a flat plane.
He was also scared of foreigners, immigrants, out-of-towners, the dark, the light, the ocean, air conditioning... the list goes on.
@@pretzelbomb6105 being home schooled and suffering from a number of illnesses can do that to you. But good God that man had a lot of phobias.
That seems to be what people who don't understand science don't understand. If it works, then it's correct. When there are 100 different independent ways to measure the same thing and they all agree, that counts as "working."
I actually managed to pass polar calculus in university. Something about majoring in engineering required the course. It was about solving problems using sections of a sphere or circle. Long time ago, a lot has departed from my memory. My other thought listening to your excellent video is latitude and longitude. It was when sextants and accurate clocks were invented that accurate navigation of the earth was possible. Yes, some peoples were able to get to the place they were aiming for without the instruments. And other peoples became lost. Columbus thought he was in East India, not the Caribbean famously. Note how the sections as defined by lat x long get smaller as you approach the poles.
flat earth surveyors: "why all the projects we do fail ?"
every non flat earther on the planet: "I wonder why"
*if a flat earther would ever pass the surveyer exam.
😅
You 2 defend a lie based on 0 evidence
Engineering problems faced when trying to account for curve in building the London tunnel 31.5 miles long. Curve calculator says should be behind 660 feet of curve.
Ordnance survey national grid reference system (bng) didn't work.
They accounted for 20 cm per km due to the curvature of earth.
Even by longitude and latitude by using spherical calculations they could be out by as much as 200 metres. As maps are flat the engineers trying use calculations of a spherical earth via a flat map.
If this seems excessive than pop along to Greenwich and stand on the prime meridian, pulling out a Gps receiver it'll tell you your 102 metres to the east of the meridian because it uses a different mapping system to old paler maps
Three different points where taken using three different coordinator system proven to be reliable. All three calculations contradicted curve on a flat map.
This is from Ian visits. Com . Uk
@@Stopstalkingmenarokkurai You keep copy-pasting that same block of text, even though you know it contains factual errors down to the very name of the tunnel. Why would you do that? Do you actually believe it?
I was US Army. Every map I ever dealt with using the MGRS grid system has a different angle depending on where on the earth it is for. That angle, is the angle between Magnetic North and True and Polar North using The North Star and The North Pole for reference points. The closer to either the North or South Pole, the wider that angle gets.
You can't see the north star from anywhere south of the equator (a few degrees north of that actually).
Correct, magnetic declination and angle of latitude/longitude affect not only us land surveyors but also anyone who is using maps for land or naval navigation.
@@TheRealTacCom and amateur astronomers.
It’s because the earth isn’t flat.
Don't ruin the surprise 😂
really? wow
Amazing! Someone should tell all the flat earthers!.... oh wait. It's sad that this is where we are. In 2023 we are still trying to tell people "the earth isn't flat".
@@ceebeeafter 6000 years you think they could have figured it out
@@wmeuse2375CCs wife figured it out, that's why he rarely records from home, and when he does it's when she's already sleeping.
I'm sure they'll be right along to apologize and acknowledge these important facts about surveying.
The reason there are no flat earth surveyors is that jobs like this are usually carried out by grown-ups.
Speaking of large engineering projects, long suspension bridges require taking the curvature into account. The Golden Gate Bridge towers are 5 cm farther apart at the top than the bottom due to the curvature.
And 80 cm of variation due to thermal expansion
Another entirely insane comment to defend the wobbling/spinning/orbiting/ ball theory. Nice job.
I checked as 5 cm is a lot, it's 36 mm (1.4 inches and not 2 inches).
So no, just another round earther LIE
@@jackk1583Another entirely foolish comment defending the rising/magic/geocentrist earth model.
I am convinced that there are only 2 types of flat earthers: 1) Those who are are trolling us all and get their jollies from people losing their minds and spending all kinds of time and effort combatting them, and 2) Those who have a mental or emotional illness based in paranoia and/or delusions. I'm guessing category #1 represents 85%+.
Nah, there's a third kind: Those preying on type 2 and exploiting them for monetary gain.
@@Llortnerof Then there must be at least 4 kinds because I've seen some who are just thick as pigshit.
As Llortnerof stated, there's a third category. And it was the first.
Generally, we have:
* Conmen
* True Believers
* Jokesters
And they came in that order. The originator of all this nonsense back in the late nineteenth century was a notable conman who used this as a means to make bank via speaking tours. He probably maintained awareness throughout that this was false. But his followers were true believers and many of those folded this into various religions. Much later there were several waves of jokesters or trolls, including some organizations that essentially were crushed under the weight of true believers their frivolity generated.
4) the ones who believe as a kind of religious thing.
Birds aren't real.
As a former practitioner of the arcane and dark art of Celestial Navigation, I can assure the commenter @1:35 that spherical triangles are very real and very useful. A sphere is the only way you can have a triangle with three right angles. If you combine two of these triangles you get a Pentagramma Mirificum (Latin for miraculous pentagram) which is a star polygon on a sphere, composed of five great circle arcs, all of whose internal angles are right angles.
sick
@@ar_xiv Nope. Haven't been seasick since I was eleven years old and that was in a storm.
No, the Pentagramma Mirificum isn't 2 triangles combined, any more than a flat pentagram is 2 triangles combined. 2 triangles have 6 angles between them. A pentagram has 5.
@@jursamaj Try reading the excellent Wikipedia article on Pentagramma Mirificum and you will see that I am correct. Remember that the triangles on a sphere each have three 90 degree angles.
Many years ago in my survey training we had to learn how to derive latitude and longitude and azimuth from star observations. Now latitude is basically the angle from your horizontal up to the celestial north/south pole - in the N hemisphere you have Polaris, the pole star near it. For every about 111 km you move N or S your latitude changes by 1 deg, as that is the angle subtended at the earth's centre over 111 km. To get the same effect of a flat earth, you would need all the visible stars to be on a hemispherical dome with the same radius as the earth - about 6380 km. Great, the stars are not light years away, but within 6400 km. Now the only issue is that a hemisphere with a radius of 6400 km, above the north pole, meets the earth, about 32 deg N - about the latitude of say Los Angeles, Cairo or Shanghai. If you are south of these places your are outside the limits of the earth, plus outside the observable universe. Hmmm
If surveyors get math wrong.... It costs the company millions if not BILLIONS and the project would have to be redone from the beginning. The shear accuracy we run on is insane and if no one calculated it right things get wasted and costs more money.
Well, apparently there is a Canusa street that goes along the border of Vermont and Quebec. It does not follow the correct international border because the surveyors were drunk. Well, it was the 19th century afterall!
@@aemrt5745 yeah... But even back then this math was solid. If you don't follow guide line in a process and keep paperwork is the difference in being fired or keeping you job
@@Jd-zl7mn Yep. It is amazing what was done with analog gear and mathematics back then. Our predosessors were ingenious and very clever.
@@Jd-zl7mn Though back then folks were a lot more permissive about booze. Though Prohibition was a bad idea that could never work, there was an understandable reason why people were fed up with too much alcohol consumption.
As a former real estate appraiser, when I saw the title of this video my mind went to the larger scale maps we sometimes used that show a township divided up into 36 sections of one square mile each, which were then divided up into 16 40-acre blocks. Being in the northern hemisphere, the southern edge of these maps was always square. But ty the time it got to the northern end there was a bit of inward curvature, and some of those parcels were a bit under 40 acres.
Which is just one more indication, as if I needed it, that the surveyors know what they're doing when they adjust for curvatures.
Thank you for this video.
Correct, a very good observation. Longitude can also cause complications in orienteering and land/naval navigation the closer you are to the Earth's poles.
You are correct. However that much would be the same on a flat earth. As you go north the lines of longitude get closer together. We see that in Michigan which was laid out in sections that are a square mile. But the north-south roads that separate can’t go straight. They have to jog over every so often to get back to being one mile apart.
The problem for flat earthers is when you do the same thing in the southern hemisphere. There model would have the north south lines getting further apart when in reality they get closer together as you go south.
All flat earthers after this video 'la, la, la, can't hear you, can't hear you, la, la, la'
In the meanwhile, those of us with brains are watching this, fascinated by the science, and yet asking ourselves, "Wait; I know the Earth is a globe. Why am I watching this? Ooo! More science!"
This isn't quite true, a friend of mine is a land surveyor and his coworker is a flat Earther. He factors in the roundness of the Earth in his daily work but still somehow thinks it's flat anyway.
So just truly truly inconsistent then
That's actually scary. Irl doublethink in action.
for some people, once you've labeled yourself something then denouncing that label takes away part of your identity and purpose in life. Which is another reason why religious people, sportsfans, conspiracy theorists, and cult members have a hard time getting out
@@saucevc8353 I mean it's called cognitive dissonance so no need to take a word from 1984.
So he's deluding himself 😂
The one positive thing about flerfs is that I constantly learn more and more about interesting stuff like this because of how many ways people prove that the Earth absolutely cannot be flat.
In the US, if a licensed surveyor fails to account for critical facts like the curvature of the planet and, more importantly, the fact that meridians converge to the north, north of the equator, they would introduce errors in their maps (called plats) that would in turn lead to lawsuits.
BS
@@Nehner Nope. It's already happened more than once, and it wasn't even an error in spherical trigonometry. The datum moved due to continental drift.
Maybe its in the books but not in the real business life.
@@Nehner The law suits are in the "budiness" when some clown decides you've cheated him or her out of three inches along one side of your property.
Engineer, W. Winckler was published in the Earth Review regarding the Earth’s supposed curvature, stating, “As an engineer of many years standing, I saw that this absurd allowance is only permitted in school books. No engineer would dream of allowing anything of the kind. I have projected many miles of railways and many more of canals and the allowance has not even been thought of, much less allowed for. This allowance for curvature means this - that it is 8” for the first mile of a canal, and increasing at the ratio by the square of the distance in miles; thus a small navigable canal for boats, say 30 miles long, will have, by the above rule an allowance for curvature of 600 feet. Think of that and then please credit engineers as not being quite such fools. Nothing of the sort is allowed. We no more think of allowing 600 feet for a line of 30 miles of railway or canal, than of wasting our time trying to square the circle”
A surveyor and engineer of thirty years published in the Birmingham Weekly Mercury stated, “I am thoroughly acquainted with the theory and practice of civil engineering. However bigoted some of our professors may be in the theory of surveying according to the prescribed rules, yet it is well known amongst us that such theoretical measurements are INCAPABLE OF ANY PRACTICAL ILLUSTRATION. All our locomotives are designed to run on what may be regarded as TRUE LEVELS or FLATS. There are, of course, partial inclines or gradients here and there, but they are always accurately defined and must be carefully traversed. But anything approaching to eight inches in the mile, increasing as the square of the distance, COULD NOT BE WORKED BY ANY ENGINE THAT WAS EVER YET CONSTRUCTED. Taking one station with another all over England and Scotland, it may be stated that all the platforms are ON THE SAME RELATIVE LEVEL. The distance between Eastern and Western coasts of England may be set down as 300 miles. If the prescribed curvature was indeed as represented, the central stations at Rugby or Warwick ought to be close upon three miles higher than a chord drawn from the two extremities. If such was the case there is not a driver or stoker within the Kingdom that would be found to take charge of the train. We can only laugh at those of your readers who seriously give us credit for such venturesome exploits, as running trains round spherical curves. Horizontal curves on levels are dangerous enough, vertical curves would be a thousand times worse, and with our rolling stock constructed as at present physically impossible.”
The Manchester Ship Canal Company published in the Earth Review stated, “It is customary in Railway and Canal constructions for all levels to be referred to a datum which is nominally horizontal and is so shown on all sections. It is not the practice in laying out Public Works to make allowances for the curvature of the earth.
Dave, I mean this sincerely. You are by far the best anti-flat earther on the internet. Ive seen every one of your videos and i watch the news ones asap. Keep up the great work!
There's Professor Dave Explains as well. He had a few fantastic videos ripping into this nonsense.
@@eyalamit5120 I have seen those and I agree. I just think this channel does it in a way that everyone can understand. (Well, besides flerfs lol)
i agree
Video game models have a similar issue. When you make a 3d model, and you want to texture it, you have to cut it up so that it can be laid flat. So that a flat image can be applied to it. It's an art of in it's self. You don't want your cuts to be visible, but you also don't want the texture to be stretched. laying a sphere flat will always be stretched and squished.
Poor fe'rs still can't figure out why Australia looks like a squished turd on the Gleason...
Uuuugh.... I just got some mesh-to-textures ptsd from my days on Secondlife from that.........
As someone who uses Blender for 3D modelling, i can say that this is true.
UV mapping. Gross. That's one place I won't mind AI taking over.
@@5peciesunkn0wn UV mapping has never bothered me. Retopology is what I don't like. I like to sculpt characters, but retopologizing is why I always put it off.
You did a fantastic job showing the material from the book in a useful and easy-to-follow way. The way you introduced related paragraphs and used arrows to highlight connections between the images and the descriptions was great. Good work!
It's easy to watch things you agree with.
@@WCDavis-cl7si you're telling me! Some of these flerf videos are so convoluted that they're difficult to look at. Regardless, no matter what the content I rarely see someone use a paper textbook so well in a video form.
As I just started a career as a surveyer, I can totally confirm I made a bloodoath to 'the elite' regarding the real shape of our planet.
You do realise that because you have admitted this, you have to be eliminated?
SHHHH! You're not supposed to talk about the plum line bloodoath!
Signed in blood AND under a full moon, I hope?
meanwhile, there’s actual video (circa Jan 2020) placing the hard sphere "edge" that boats and ships apparently fall over 😂 at around 9 miles further out than it should have been #black #swan
dude; I appreciate your honesty. Globe on.
This seems like pretty damning evidence, but I’m sure the flatties will figure out some way to either ignore, or willfully misrepresent what you’ve said here..😞
At one point in the video he said "But Flatearthers think that..." This will be the only part they are jumping on with "We never claimed/ I would nevver claim/ We don't know" and that's it, the rest will be ignored.
"Don't be part of the conspiracy - believe me, not them."
"Also, we've never been to the moon and there are 72 sexes."
@@1950Grendel what?
@@mathewferstl7042 I'm confused as well... so apparently we were to the moon and there are not 72 sexes... which is both correct. 72 is an oddly specific number, since most genetical traits appear on a spectrum if they are defined by multiple genes, since it is usually too many to name the specific amount of possible combinations.
@@rudolfquerstein6710 Do you imagine a species with 72 sexes tho? it would be wild, some fungi species have up to 5 sexes where a can mate with b, b with c, c with d, d with e and e with a, but not other combinations. Or in the case of bees where they have female, male and worker. How would a species with 72 sexes even work? I can only imagine some kind of insect like colony species where there are specific multiple female-ish sexes to create different types of the species like soldier type, worker type. big soldier type, that instead of a queen bug doing it all, there are multiple, one for each type, then a specific type of male-ish for each type as well, then maybe the those types that are breed have no reproductive capabilities so, nonsexual, but even then 72 would be wild, at most i can imagine like 7 or 8 different types, if we imagine that for each type there is going to be a male-ish a female-ish and the type itself that would be asexual you would have 8*2+1 which it 17, the asexual ones do not count each type as a different sex as in the context of sexes they are the same sex, asexual, then we may add another female type that births this different males and females that create the rest, and you have 18, if we include a new male-ish type that serves to inseminate the queen type then 19, and that would be wild and completely unrealistic as it would be a very wasteful way of reproduction when there is absolutely no need to create pseudo mini-queens for each body type with each their own males. when the queen can just birth the worker/soldiers/etc directly. But even with this though experiment, the max i can imagine is around 19 sexes in a completely unrealistic fantasy like scenario.
TBH it is already weird enough that there are 2 sexes, a single sex that is unable of self impregnation would do, there is not even a necessity of 2 reproductive organs or 2 types of reproductive cells, with a reproductive cell that can be combined with others of the same type but not of the same origin would do, this would even prevent the worst of incest as closely related reproductive cells would probably be incompatble as well.
I've watched a few flerf debunking videos, and this is the first of yours I've seen. I love how you do it! It's very clear and easy to understand, also engaging in a way that keeps my attention. I need to look at your stuff some more. Great work!
Thanks for this its something surveyors are taught very early on. For levelling you do not normally go over 100m distance (from level to staff/target) as curvature of the earth impacts on the reading. It was established/confirmed by surveyors in1700s when they noticed that flat canals follow the curvature of the earth.
By 1700 no one had seen the sea?
When I hear "water always finds it's level or they don't account for curvature", I get a slight headache because it's like going back to square one again. Dave is like kind teacher that holds your hand through it all and yet somehow it seems like they hit a switch that brings them back to s1. I was a flatearther for 2 months when i was 24 but when I saw the effort an educated man put in to explain the simple movements in the sky compared to -"Thats how its always been or we don'tknow yet" I instantly came back to earth because it all made sense.
The water finds its own level argument that flat eathers use is so stupid it means that it will always go to the lowest point not that it finds one flat level and stays there it makes me die inside as well whenever I hear it
they also ignore simply things that make claims like that absurd on their face -- like the tides. If water *always* finds it's level and never curves, then what the *actual* hell are tides?
But that never matters, they just move on or say something nonsensical like "electrostatic forces."
It's what's called a thought-terminating cliche. They mindlessly repeat "water finds its own level" because it means that after that they don't have to think anymore, that it's true because it's true. It's a remarkably effective weapon against critical thinking, used by basically every modern cult.
Man, I'm sorry it got you, if even for a moment. It seems that very few ever come back once they fall down the rabbit hole. I'm aware of only 2 flat Earthers that had public presence that actually came back to reality and have maintained public presence since. And are actually FE debunkers now.
That's legit what it feels like !
They just wanna turn off their brain with a simple sentence. Flat earth made me respect all science and i've been addicted to learning everything ever since.
But Id never argue or debate one ...........
"maybe some flat earther should take a course in surveying" As if a flat earther would actually put any effort into doing research.. the last time someone did so they found out that there indeed a 15 degree per hour drift (thanks Bob, RIP)
But Jeran's experiment where he proved the Earth wasn't flat was more 'interesting'.
Set up a total station, level, or theodolite on the edge of a good sized lake, set vertical angle to zero and look at shoreline on other side a few miles away, and the cross-hairs will be much higher above the water surface than your instrument height. Best demo I can think of to show Earth is not flat. A modern theodolite measures angles with extreme accuracy and will easily show the glaring error if you were expecting the cross hairs to be at eye level on the opposite side.
A rudimentary version of that was done by Jeran in that fiasco of a documentary in Netflix some years ago. Guess what? He denied the whole thing, and he's still a flat head.
They don't want evidence. They are allergic to evidence. They found a narrative they enjoy (or can milk to make some money) and that's it.
Been watching your videos for a few weeks, and I'm so glad you used Coordinate Reference Systems in the argument against the flat earth belief. I am a geospatial scientist/engineer and I'm well known enough that my reputation reaches further than just the UK and I have to use these systems to adapt lat/long into meters. The importance of course behind this is that no one system can be used all around the world - they have a finite reach in terms of useability, something that can be shown when you choose different projections inside a gis tool like qgis or arcgis. To you and me this makes perfect sense, as the distance covered by one degree of longitude changes based on the latitude it's taken at. The further north you go above, or south below the equator the shorter the distance covered by a single degree of rotation. And you are 100% correct, that none of these systems work perfectly - because it isn't possible to perfectly map a curved surface to a flat map. Within a small area it can be shown to work reasonably well, as the distortion covered by the curve is quite small, but the larger the area covered the worse it gets. If you want to discuss this further send me an message - It's become quite a hobby of mine using my actual job to demonstrate exactly why flat earth is nonsense
Keep up the good work - it's funny as always
Hey DickieDean8042: Prove the Gleason Map's measurements wrong so the 1892 patent on it must be lifted. Or; present a reverse Gleason Map with more accurate measurements and get your own patent, and/or your own name on a map. You do sound really pretentious; keep up the good work.
@@WCDavis-cl7si I don't need to get my name on a map. Certainly not something that was used to drive book sales, but in his patent application admitted that it was just an attempt to project the globe onto a 2d map. It proves nothing, it does exactly what all projected maps do - attempts to make a 2d flat map out of something that isn't. Like I said. I have to do this for a living. It's literally my job - or am I part of the big conspiracy?
@@WCDavis-cl7si I mean the funniest part of this is you ask me to prove the measurements wrong, but I don't have to - all 2d projections of the world are wrong if they cover the whole globe even the ones that are rectangular and familiar to most of the people on the planet. Because it isn't possible to have everything either the right size, or the correct distance away from each other.
@@richarddean8042 Go do your LIE of a living then, Dickie D. Your obviously pretentious attitude means that you will most certainly be a great flat earther someday. I look forward to welcoming you; you know, when you are older, wiser and more mature. Again; if you are so correct and smart and right, then go get that fake Gleason patent lifted. We'll wait.
@@richarddean8042i can't believe we are in 2023 and there are people around that believe we live on a pancake
A flerther taking on surveryer training will probably be kicked out very soon because they keep shouting at the lecturer that the book is wrong and the Earth is flat... provided that they can even understand half of the formula (wanted to use plural but then realize that's too much for flerthers' tiny brains) listed in the book.
To be fair...
Water IS level.
But level does not mean flat.
It means every point on a surface has the same distanxe from a reference object.
In thr case of water on earth, the reference object is the center of the orb earth.
Water is always level. The Suez canal is 100 miles of dead flat water. Once again, impossible on a ball. Flat earthers (which i despise the words) know the earth is not flat. It has dips and valleys, mountains, etc, but still a plane.
@@jackk1583 Care to address anything brought up in the video?
@@joshuasmith1981 sure. All surveyors measure over a still plane. I advise you to study the movements of the sun over your head. She moves like a precision clock, being perfect in degrees, hours, and minutes. Ask any surveyor.
And the results are recorded with minute detail. Thank the Creator for such magnificence and daily maintenance of His world, even though men have boasted otherwise.
Do you think people who believe the earth is flat will understand that math in the book? It's easier for them to say all surveyors are paid to lie to us about the globe... For some reason
At the start of my training as an aircraft navigator we had to draw up our own maps, from scratch. So we learned much about the shape of the Globe, various map projections and the errors that accrued as you moved toward a chart's edges. The experience of putting all this into practice around the world proved all was correct. Being able to measure the altitude of Polaris or Sigma Oct above the local horizon with a sextant and consistently from the Arctic to the Falklands get the correct latitude on the Globe is tough to explain with a flat Earth model but surpisingly easy if you accept the established science. Minor thing but the National Grid squares are just 100 km. Fun fact: the Ordnance Survey was actually created to assist accurate artillery fire by the British Army, should Napoleon's threat of invasion have come to pass, hence the 'Ordnance' bit.
I like the continuing notation that in small areas, the curvature of the Earth can be ignored. I live in a moderately large house for The United States. The property is well defined by fences. If we were to have a survey done on this property, He'd, "shoot" it, pound a couple of stakes in the ground and be done with it. However, when I think of huge projects, like laying the first continental railroad across the U.S. (The U.S. is about 4,000 miles across 6,500 Kilometers). Guess what? The curve of the Earth now has to be taken into account. By the way, I live very near Lake Tahoe, California. When I go up to the lake (I live in Reno, Nevada), and stand on the beach, even on a hot summer day (like we've had the last week or so), it is impossible for me to see the other side of the lake.
I'm sure the surveyors who laid the route for the Transcontinental Railroad accounted for the Earth's curve hundreds of times altogether by the time they finished, but a railroad can be done in segments and adjusted here and there as needed to deal with natural features.
Now, the Chunnel on the other hand... well, they had much less margin for error than Union Pacific trying to meet in the middle.
Yes, when surveying, there are situations where you can just ignore the Earth's curvature. For example, when you build a simple house, you can ignore the curvature as the error from ignoring it can be 2 to 4 order of magnitude smaller that the error margin of all the measurement done during that project.
That can't mean that the Earth is flat. It only mean that the effect of the curve is to small to have a real effect.
I'm a land surveyor and demonstrating the curvature of the earth across a lake is the most basic of tasks. Why have none of us been commissioned by flat earthers to put it to rest?
They can't come up with the money??
They don't care about reality?
Because anything that disproves them can't exist or else all their claims fail. That's why they deny the 15°/hr drift (Thanks Bob, RIP), and "interesting" (Thanks jeranism)
The same thing is true for RF Engineers. I used to plan long distance communication links. Even with antenna at 200' on both ends, you will hit the ground in the middle if the link it long enough.
You can't teach flatearther to survey. You need certain IQ level to understand surveying. They would just not get it.
You try to teach a flat earther surveying and the immense proof of a curved earth causes them to self destruct
IQ isn't the issue; it's intellectual vanity and laziness.
@@ominous-omnipresent-theyIQ is BS anyway since it was designed to allow discrimination against people of African descent in the USA.
Same goes for telecoms engineers like myself, I use curvature calcs constantly when planning new mast sites
Your dog is far too wholesome. I’m glad they are part of your videos. :)
We ❤️ Rusty!
Presuming that flat earthers know what a surveyor is, that's generous.
I’m not so sure there are no flat earth surveyors. When I lived in Iowa, there were two surveying companies in town and I lived next-door to the chairman of the surveying department at the University. Chronically they would be cases where one of the companies would lay out the boundary lines and they would be wrong because they did not correct for the curvature of the Earth. My neighbor would get involved and would point out the flaws in that survey and then the other surveying company would be called in who would correctly lay out the boundaries.
I wondered why this kept happening, but after watching your video I suspect that the people in the one surveying company may have been flat earthers. 😂
No they were Iowans and there's no truth in this story.
@@tommosher8271 I was there. Crazy as it sounds it happened. And it happened more than once.
@@tommosher8271 No, it's a true story. Leave it to Iowans to keep screwing up on their math.
This is a pretty good point. I doubt any flat earther could do any accurate land surveys. In fact im pretty sure theyve tried and consistently mess up. So throwing the book at them is awesome