We've somehow reached our 50th episode of this series. However, for today's street track, we take a look at a one and done event that took place 40 years ago.
My favourite trivia bit about this track is that the support classes set the lap record, instead of F1 cars. Tells you just how poor the track surface was!
90° 4Life! Jokes aside, my guess would be that the extreme heat and the grippy tires had something to do with the track coming up in the slower turns. Hot track, hot, sticky tires, and gobs of torque.
This is one of the tracks where we see F1 cars using larger than usual rear wings on the cars, which were also seen in other street circuits they were running in the 1980s. We'll see this kind of wings again in the 1990s where the team had their first race in Okayama, in 1994.
If/when you get around to the other Dallas street circuits, the shorter layout of the circuit covered in this video would be a worthy addition. It was used by Trans-Am in 1988 as the second race of the season and is notable for Hurley Haywood winning in an Audi 200 Quattro, the first win for an AWD system in a major production car race. Haywood himself said that the track was very slippery throughout the race, and that he just cruised around, and that because of the AWD, he could put the car anywhere he wanted and could get away with anything that he couldn’t have tried in a 2WD car, otherwise he would’ve undoubtedly crashed.
You would find all of the areas the needed the cement are traction areas where the care is asking for the most amount of grip whether under turning or under acceleration
This is the exact reason. Hence why NASCAR short tracks tend to have concrete, the corners would he under massive pressure from acceleration that the asphalt would tear up
I often forget how few subs you have, given the quality of the content. Also, despite the heat and surface issues, this was probably one of the better Random US Circuits used for F1 outside of the steadier things like Indy, COTA and Watkins Glen.
Okay, One last Try for the German Norisring request :) maybe you could take a look into this little street circuit, used by the DTM and ADAC GT Masters Series. Love the videos btw!
Oh, you'll get to one hundred! GRC alone has quite the pool of failed street (and carpark) circuits to offer! LA staples center, LA Harbour, LA X Games rally (preceding GRC but I still count it) , Las Vegas Linq Hotel, Las Vegas SEMA, Munich, Louisville, Dallas (yes, another street circuit in Dallas) , and even another event at the RFK Stadium. And those are just the ones I can think of off the top of my head.
As for the track breaking up in low speed corners I would suggest that it was the result of the Very large forces that come with a lot of horse power being transmitted to the track surface by Very fat and sticky tyres.
Why the track breakup? I'd guess a combination of the heat, and the way the cars had to be driven. 84 was the early days of Turbo F1, and the engines weren't fully sorted yet. Throttle lag was a big problem, which meant that to accelerate out of a corner, you had to be on throttle well before the apex. To control this, the drivers were using the brake and throttle at the same time in slower corners, as they were never quite certain when the power would kick in. This led to the front tires loading the track surface in one direction, only for the rear tires almost immediately loading it in the opposite direction. Combine that with the track temperature (66*C, 151*F), and the track just couldn't take it. The faster corners weren't as bad, largely because the engines were on-song, in a steady throttle position, not transitioning from no power to ALL THE POWER like they were in the slow corners (that, and the aero loading was pushing the cars into the track surface, rather than a lack thereof allowing the cars to skitter across the top).
I remember this race for the famous story of ayrton senna crashing out then getting an ear full from his team boss who believed that ayrton was lying about the wall having moved to cover for incompetent driving, only for ayrton to be proven completely correct in his statements when they went to recover the car after the race and measured the wall placement with a tape measure and it turned out the end of the wall near the apex of the turn had in fact shifted 3/8's of an inch outward after another car hit it which caused ayrton to clip it and crash out.
Congratulations on the fiftieth episode. Dallas was so traumatic for F1 that they never considered returning. Not even Indycar wanted to hold a race there. But I believe today would be different.
I recall seeing this race on TV and being bemused by the car park at the exit of that turn. I think both McLarens (Lauda and Prost) stopped there and the video shows both Arrows also
If only they'd invested in an hour long TV drama based on the oil industry instead . That could definitely have promoted the city to a worldwide audiance. Give it a catchy name, it could be a real winner!
happy 50th Anniversary of Street Track Failures
Can't believe it's been 50 long years! I remember watching the first episode live when I was -15.
My favourite trivia bit about this track is that the support classes set the lap record, instead of F1 cars. Tells you just how poor the track surface was!
90° 4Life!
Jokes aside, my guess would be that the extreme heat and the grippy tires had something to do with the track coming up in the slower turns. Hot track, hot, sticky tires, and gobs of torque.
This is one of the tracks where we see F1 cars using larger than usual rear wings on the cars, which were also seen in other street circuits they were running in the 1980s.
We'll see this kind of wings again in the 1990s where the team had their first race in Okayama, in 1994.
Good things about Dallas' Circuit:
1) Without Dallas pulling out in 1985, we never would've gotten Adelaide.
That is all.
If/when you get around to the other Dallas street circuits, the shorter layout of the circuit covered in this video would be a worthy addition. It was used by Trans-Am in 1988 as the second race of the season and is notable for Hurley Haywood winning in an Audi 200 Quattro, the first win for an AWD system in a major production car race. Haywood himself said that the track was very slippery throughout the race, and that he just cruised around, and that because of the AWD, he could put the car anywhere he wanted and could get away with anything that he couldn’t have tried in a 2WD car, otherwise he would’ve undoubtedly crashed.
As someone who lives in Dallas and has walked this track.. thanks for making this video!!
Another texan
You would find all of the areas the needed the cement are traction areas where the care is asking for the most amount of grip whether under turning or under acceleration
This is the exact reason. Hence why NASCAR short tracks tend to have concrete, the corners would he under massive pressure from acceleration that the asphalt would tear up
I often forget how few subs you have, given the quality of the content.
Also, despite the heat and surface issues, this was probably one of the better Random US Circuits used for F1 outside of the steadier things like Indy, COTA and Watkins Glen.
You could do the one off Trans Am course in St Pete around Tropicana Field. That would be a good one!
Okay, One last Try for the German Norisring request :) maybe you could take a look into this little street circuit, used by the DTM and ADAC GT Masters Series. Love the videos btw!
That's not a street track failure
You're my favourite racing lore TH-camr. Keep going!
Congrats on the 50th video in this series!
Really hope you can make it to episode 90 which could be a great 90° corner special!
Happy 50th. Another series you could maybe do is forgotten tracks. Old Monza. All those now gone tracks in America.
How about the one-off Curacao grand prix from 1985
Oh, you'll get to one hundred! GRC alone has quite the pool of failed street (and carpark) circuits to offer! LA staples center, LA Harbour, LA X Games rally (preceding GRC but I still count it) , Las Vegas Linq Hotel, Las Vegas SEMA, Munich, Louisville, Dallas (yes, another street circuit in Dallas) , and even another event at the RFK Stadium. And those are just the ones I can think of off the top of my head.
As for the track breaking up in low speed corners I would suggest that it was the result of the Very large forces that come with a lot of horse power being transmitted to the track surface by Very fat and sticky tyres.
My theory on the track failing in the slower corners is that the hard acceleration was the cause, not the lateral force. Turbo torque FTW
Why the track breakup? I'd guess a combination of the heat, and the way the cars had to be driven. 84 was the early days of Turbo F1, and the engines weren't fully sorted yet. Throttle lag was a big problem, which meant that to accelerate out of a corner, you had to be on throttle well before the apex. To control this, the drivers were using the brake and throttle at the same time in slower corners, as they were never quite certain when the power would kick in. This led to the front tires loading the track surface in one direction, only for the rear tires almost immediately loading it in the opposite direction. Combine that with the track temperature (66*C, 151*F), and the track just couldn't take it. The faster corners weren't as bad, largely because the engines were on-song, in a steady throttle position, not transitioning from no power to ALL THE POWER like they were in the slow corners (that, and the aero loading was pushing the cars into the track surface, rather than a lack thereof allowing the cars to skitter across the top).
5:32 - This is one of my “FAVORITE” f-1 tracks “ASCETIC” wise…..
I remember this race for the famous story of ayrton senna crashing out then getting an ear full from his team boss who believed that ayrton was lying about the wall having moved to cover for incompetent driving, only for ayrton to be proven completely correct in his statements when they went to recover the car after the race and measured the wall placement with a tape measure and it turned out the end of the wall near the apex of the turn had in fact shifted 3/8's of an inch outward after another car hit it which caused ayrton to clip it and crash out.
My guess is the combination from extreme heat and grippy tires.
Extreme track temperature + hot and sticky tires + tons of torque
Congratulations on the fiftieth episode. Dallas was so traumatic for F1 that they never considered returning. Not even Indycar wanted to hold a race there. But I believe today would be different.
They (Indy) might have TMS again in the future
One of the reasons why F1 never returned was because an event promoter literally "took the money and ran"
Love the content keep up the amazing work
Congrats on 15K!!
Can't wait for the GTWCE race at Jeddah to see that on this series
"i doubt there'll be 50 more" i will take that as a challenge
They should have held the race in the fall at the start.
The GOAT is back
yes!!!
So... did you save this for the 50th or it actually took this long to get Dallas? Been a wild ride, full of 90º right handers.
I Knew it's was only matter of time for Dallas.
I love to see you do videos of how you fix the Street circuit
I’d suggest St. Croix in Quebec. Saw a world challenge race on speed channel once
Is it time for street track successes series now?
San Diego Trans Am
name a more iconic duo than texas and shitass road courses, i'll wait
I recall seeing this race on TV and being bemused by the car park at the exit of that turn. I think both McLarens (Lauda and Prost) stopped there and the video shows both Arrows also
If only they'd invested in an hour long TV drama based on the oil industry instead . That could definitely have promoted the city to a worldwide audiance. Give it a catchy name, it could be a real winner!
I propose the STCC Oslo track from 1999-2000 for future video
If you become a faliure in finding street tracks we should expand it to race tracks. Banger video tho and ofc, great work
Answer: the bulldozer option
Where was "a ninety-degree... left/right hander..."?
It still one of the hottest F1 races ever.
Man please do Rome Formula E
Shanghai Puding Street Circuit (2010) next!
It's Pudding.
Wait, you mean Pudong.
Hello
:)
congrats on 15k, love the videos mate keep up the good work
Man please do Rome Formula E