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LG OLED Dynamic Tone-Mapping On or Off vs HGIG: Which is Best for PS5/ Xbox Series X Gaming?
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 ส.ค. 2024
- We demonstrate the effects of [Dynamic Tone Mapping] "On", "Off" and "HGIG" in [HDR Game Mode] on the LG CX OLED TV, and explain which is generally the best setting for gaming on the Sony PS5 and Xbox Series X.
Our recommendation can also be applied to the BX and GX, as well as 2019's LG C9, B9 & E9.
A Canon DP-V2411 4K reference monitor was used for HDR analysis of dynamic tone-mapping (DTM) vs HGIG. HGIG-compliant games on the Xbox Series X include DiRT 5 and Call of Duty: Black Ops Cold War.
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I like that you are listening to your fans. Sometimes we have our own opinions. But this is awesome
“We”
Yea man... I know for a fact he made this video because of the comments from the last couple videos... this man is a legend on this tv shit... just got this tv a few days ago and his videos are a life saver!
Ya he listens. He gets hated on hard by channels like that clown QUANTUMTV! Even if Vincent works for LG idc, I just don’t get the vibe that he’s lying.
@@wackswax8423 quantumtv is an absolute joke. He has no idea what he's doing.
@@wackswax8423 quantumtv says stupid shit like “I won’t reveal my white settings or color balance settings, I’m not giving that away for free”
QuantumTV is just another shill who brands himself on his “true facts channel” but then he hides his settings... meaning we can’t trust absolutely anything he says about any of the TVs he’s showing because he is likely intentionally skewing his results to make LG look bad.
"Pointless as the p in pneumonia" - hilarious 😂😂😂
That makes more sense. I thought he said "As pointless as the pee in ammonia", lol!
@@jimwright2318 Yeah, I thought the same way and was wondering what it means 😂.
@@jimwright2318 the p is there for a good reason
Obrigado p+
37 years old here. And I'm never that in a comment beforr. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
LG‘s terminology with Dynamic Tone Mapping „Off“ is really confusing. Essentially the TV is not dynamically tone mapping but it is still statically tone mapping to that curve that always tries to restore highlights at up to almost 4000 nits. I think they should rename the section as just „Tone Mapping“ and offer the choices of „Dynamic“, „Static“ and „Native/HGiG“ so people actually understand what they are getting.
I didn‘t know that myself and now it finally makes sense that I always have to set peak luminance in games to over 3000 nits on B7 that has no tone mapping in game mode.
Vincent - "Trying not to get banged from behind" *Bing sound* XD
Even for a Vincent joke, that one was rather forthright and surprising
Why is everything so complicated now with TVs and games? used to love putting a game on, looked great and just played it now I’m constantly adjusting to get the picture to look right.
Bugs me yeah, I have a great cheap-ish monitor for PC which I've had 4+ years and it's excellent, the ACER Predator 1440p 165hz and it only cost me like £200. I now have a £2,000 LG CX and next gen consoles and I'm never satisfied with how it looks. My old 1080p Samsung TV I used for almost 10 years had absolutely zero issues. It was fine for PS3/PS4 360/Xbox One gaming. I never once felt the need to mess with picture settings or change modes, everything just worked. I noticed no weird jittery scenes, or ghosting, or any of this, but with my LG CX I have to fuck with settings constantly for different viewing situations, and on the consoles themselves do I choose Demon's Souls on 30 FPS mode which for some reason feels way more unplayable than 30 FPS games on previous gen consoles because it just looks horrible on a large 4KTV...
I've been a PC gamer my whole life and I've always loved higher framerates, but honestly I never complained about 30 FPS gaming on consoles until PS5/Series X rolls out and 30 FPS is worse than its ever been... I guess I play 60/120 modes now without native 4K and Ray-Tracing... Woo!
@@DirEnGay 30fps is totally fine until you see 60fps 😄 after that you can’t go back
@@putyograsseson That's not what I meant though. I've always had an excellent gaming PC, I mean my current one I spent £4,000 on, but I never minded 30 FPS console gaming until this gen and with a new 4K display. I don't know what it is, it's like it handles low framerate poorly.
@@putyograsseson Uh no. 60fps is like 30fps when using 120fps. Makes a huge difference.
@@brenttitus2134 The jump from 60 to 120 definitely doesn’t feel as significant as the jump from 30 to 60.
That pneumonia joke took my breath away!
Dad???
@@JKA-TML Are you winning, son?
Wheyyy
Waiting soooo long for someone explain exactly this!!! Great Video!:)
Man fuck the clouds. I want to see the enemies in the dark!
Some games I find benefit more than others. REVillage so far seems to benefit greatly from HGIG, but other games like Destiny 2 and Elden Ring I find are so much nicer with tone mapping. It all depends on preference I suppose, and also let's face it, some game devs really don't put as much effort into HDR
Good stuff. I had noticed that in Valhalla I was getting the best HDR picture by using HGIG even though the game doesn't support it. Dynamic Tonemapping made the game look flat even though the overall brightness was higher, especially if the scene was mostly made up of midtones.
How do you know which game support HGIG?
@@leandrocharrua1277 I was wondering that too seems like there’s no list of games anywhere to look at
No games support HGIG. The picture is basically exactly the same as dynamic tone mapping switched off when it's switched to HGIG.
@@FEWGEE1 i noticed that today with Valhalla. DTM off looked exactly the same as Hgig On. i went with DTM on and Lowered the Brightness just a bit. looked nice.
Games don't have to "support" HGIG. You can use it with any HDR game or PC.
All HGIG is doing is letting the console/PC/game output its HDR data without the TV messing with it. So you get the intended proper HDR image the game is outputting.
When people say "support" HGIG, they are talking about if it uses the console HDR settings, which only a few games do. But nearly every HDR game has their own settings in the game, which amounts to the same thing.
HGIG is always the most accurate image. UNLESS HDR is messed up in the game or doesn't have proper settings. Then you need DTM on instead of HGIG to map it to your TV better. Unfortunately, many games are like this.
The good news is that to me, it feels like almost every game these days has good HDR with good settings. So I always use HGIG
So I tried HGIG with my PS5, I really did try to like it. But the picture is like 50% darker than with dynamic tone mapping on and simply too dark for daytime playing. I know there can be variability with panels, maybe it comes down to that. Dynamic tone mapping might not be "accurate" per-se but it looks FAR better to my eyes in bright games like Spiderman in daytime.
Agreed, HGIG may be more "accurate" but I'd rather sacrifice a little bit of accuracy and have a much more vibrant and brighter picture then something that looks much dimmer. Most examples I've ever seen only seem to benefit a games skybox when HGIG is used. Plus OLED don't have the brightest of panels anyway.
I found the same thing guys on my Series X. I calibrated the HDR system settings for HGIG and played a number of games with it on. I recently switched it off and find the visuals exponentially more pleasing
@Bzake The vast majority of games so far don't support it and it's not always obvious when they do. Well on xbsx or ps5 it isn't, not sure about PC. Far easier to just not use it until it's a standard for all games.
You get a brighter total image, but the blacks will be washed out. Try FF7 remake. It looks much better with HGIG, because the black are actually black.
@Bzake Its not a complete lie, DTM work well sometimes others not. I was amazed how deep black suddenly became in FF7 remake. As long as blacks arent raised its all good. Making tones brighter do make the image pop more, but its not the correct EOTF.
This Legend deserves a special place in the Olympus of internet.
Thanks Vincent, this was an awesome explanation. I'm honestly surprised by the results of having DTM turned off. That was unexpected. I'll be leaving DTM set as HGIG from here on in.
it looks awful in some games though
In most games i would say
HGiG is the way to go as long as it works correctly. In some games picture is too dark and it crashes blacks. So for daylight gaming and games that doesn't benefit from HGiG I would just stick to the tone mapping.
Exactly. I'd say I end up using DTM for about 40-50% of the games I play, bc they just look way too damn dim or dark with HGiG
@@sanda386 yeah, even HGiG GoW Ragnarok looks too dark in most cases. I just can't comprehend why they can't standardise HDR so we can just focus on playing instead of fighting with our TV settings.
Well, HDR gaming shouldn't be done in any other environment than almost 100% darkness anyway, and that is objective and the official guidelines. Other ways of playing require tweaks that are not standard.
Which is insane, such an incredibly stupid decision for a wide use standard.
You’ve just saved me so many more countless Saturdays starting up a movie or game, realizing the image looks crappy, fiddling with calibration for hours, and eventually forgetting what I initially planned on doing in the first place.
Hdr is confusing it looks like a lot of messing about I might just use hdr for movies vesa 600nits for movies will be great but games are problematic too much messing about in the menu while
Sdr you just mess with the shadow details in hdr you mess with everything me ile use it for movies I can only imagine movie mode hdr at 600nits must be great probably end up watching films in hdr turn my xbox hdr on for netflix or cobra kai lol season 4 ile probably watch the series next year become I want another oled
I've been using HGIG for so long since I watched this video, now I turn to DTM and boy, it feels way better to my eyes.
Sounds like someone likes to get blinded in dark room by just looking at menus.
HGIG always has a slider. It either uses the consoles built in slider or is provided by the game.
The games which do neither are simply not HGIG compliant and don’t use it at all
Non-HGIG games, which is a ton of games, need DTM.
Games which do provide a max nits slider or do read the consoles max nits slider should be set to HGIG.
Unfortunately it’s a lot to test and verify, especially for games that use the consoles HGIG settings, since there is no indicator of that, so DTM is a very safe and sane and trouble free default.
This was a sorely needed video. Well done, Vincent. Thank you!
+1
What was his answer lmao video 2 long literally yea or no question
@@slayerdude212 Definitely not a "yes or no" question. Have you seen the discussions on this? A lot of nuance.
Wow this is the content I need right now I was just asking about this in the other vid I own the series x and ps5 and was confused by the settings on my LG cx especially regarding this hgig dynamic tone mapping that you for furthering the explanation on this vince
LG improved the dynamic tone mapping algorithm few months ago with the latest update of the firmware on the BX now these problems are mostly solved. What i did :
1. Calibrate my LG oled BX 2020 in game hdr mode with calman and xrite pro keeping dynamic tone mapping off
2. Changing my screen to dynamic tone mapping on
3. Calibrating my ps5 hdr (where the sun is barely visible) don't go far away until the sun disappears just leave it as it is barely visible.
After all that ps5 games just pop up without loosing any detail. Dynamic tone detail is the way to go until the games implementes a better way to use HGiG.
Thank you for taking our input seriously and creating content that reflects our needs, Vincent. Keep up the excellent work.
DTM on doesn't always brighten the image by the way. sometimes it will do the opposite...for example, if you point your camera towards the sun in a dusk setting in a game, or if you go to a level where there's a ton of burning stuff at nighttime (a burning village for example), DTM will dim the entire screen a TON in order to make the fire/sun pop out more, since OLEDs can't mantain high peak brightness on the picture as a whole.
because gaming is very dynamic and youre constantly moving the camera everywhere, opening menus, maybe collecting items that have a shiny effect on them, etc, putting DTM ON will result in the average brightness of your TV keep jumping up and down to a ridiculous degree. it's similar to having a dude sitting behind you constantly adjusting the "OLED light" setting as you play. once you realise this it becomes super intrusive, and you might never be able to have it turned on anymore.
thank god somebody points that out, i have realised this since the first days i've used dtm. i don't get it that people don't see that but lucky they are if they see only the good side of it.
Yeah, I've noticed when going from a dark scene to something bright like a menu or map, the image becomes way overexposed a blown out, to where you can't see some details, then in a couple secs it levels out to where it should be. DTM is not the way
Interesting. I notice this effect a lot in God of War. I wonder if that's why
Dynamic Tone Mapping On actually makes Horizon Zero Dawn's sun/clouds not blow out compared to HGiG/Off. This video is nice but it is NOT a catch-all for all games. I think Dynamic Tone Mapping should be on for one-size-fits-all where you don't have to fucking worry about every single game looking absolutely perfect, because the HDR implementations right now are impossible to get accurate.
Just noticed this too…. Now idk wether to use DTM or hgig?
@@manyakgaming1346unfortunately it depends on the game. Configuring any settings sold always be done in HGIG but when it comes to gameplay if it's too dim it there is bad clipping then turn on DTM
Always nice to see you do videos and explain things more in detail, even if I never question your decisions unless you yourself are unsure. I had set my PS5 up with your Xbox setup first, then I realized I should have clipped the test images, not let them sit at "barely visible" which is a bad choice of words for the settings. Anyway, it's looking great with my E9 so I'm happy. Not a calibrated TV but then again it's good enough (Don't have Vincent here to actually calibrate and I wouldn't trust anyone else!)
I've gone back and forth and it really is a tough choice. You're right that HGIG makes the calibration screen more accurate but I feel like it's too dark when actually playing the game.
I agree 100%. Regardless of the directors intent, what looks appealing to your eyes is all that matters.
I have to agree, turning hgig off just make it less dim. It's the way to go for me. Especially for some games.
Yup, accurate is just that. Accurate. Depending on your viewing environment and personal preference, that might not be ideal. For me, I play in a light controlled room and have always preffered a more 'dim' picture over an overly bright one (r.i.p. plasma...). So two thumbs up to Vinny for this :).
@@CarCompulsion yep I calibrated it using the built in Series X HDR calibration tool and then the in game tool in Gears 5 but when I started a game the first mission is too dark and so is the Gears Logo on the start screen. Back to DTM on for me.
Agreed, usually im one for accuracy but idk i just like dynamic tone mapping and have been using it since it got introduced with the C8 i think it was.
I am eagerly waiting for your LOTR trilogy HDR review!!!
Since Xbox consoles don't allow Dolby Vision for Blurays, I'm really curious what difference this makes? What brings the better immage? A stream with Dolby Vision, or physical media without Dolby Vision?
I will be receiving both steelbook editions of the new 4k releases, and although my TV (LG CX) does support Dolby Vision, my Blu-ray player (Samsung ubd-k8500 doesn't).
My XSX also doesn't, as mentioned.
It's something that really made me curious...
Should I play the 4k digital version using my smart TV and enjoy Dolby vision while suffering from the quality of streaming...
Or enjoy a full 4K using the Blu-ray disc only using HDR -- lacking Dolby vision
@@tomgil9 they’re a nice upgrade imo, sadly no commentaries, though. I’ve never understood the draw of steel-books, though.
Do you guys know if the digital versions included with those sets also has dolby vision/atmos support?
So pumped for the remaster!!!
Switched between DTM and HGIG playing Demon’s souls quite a few times. It was just a bit too dim with HGIG enabled.
I have the same feeling. HGIG looks better in the bright sun outside in smithing grounds but is just too dim for playing in Latria. DTM blows smithng grounds out but lifts Latria just enough.
@iSolvano HDR even with calibration on hgig (on system lvl) it kinda looked meh.. just too dim indeed, but hmm maybe I should try again.
I kinda ended up liking DTM ON for Demons Souls, but tbh I didnt play enough with the ingame brightnes/con/sat sliders.
I remember it not feeling very intuitive this one, its not just lowest black + peak brightnes and then creators intend from there on.
If you touch the brightness setting it brightens everything up so you have to play with contrast again, which messes with the overal sat, from there on out its just random guessing? Fucking around with the entire balance..i dont know man, sigh* I guess i'm playing around with the settings again tonight =D
@@hoteltango1 yup I figured the same, HGIG makes bright areas brighter and dark areas darker while dtm on makes bright areas dimmer and dark areas brighter which works way better in demon’s souls as dark areas are simply too dark with HGIG enabled
Yes. Same with Tomb Raider
Maybe the game has a poor implementation of HDR. Sekiro has an awful implementation of HDR for example, it's from the same publisher.
Vincent is da GOAT 💪🏾💯
Once i got used to HGIG i've never gone back to DTM. It looks more accurate and natural with more realistic contrast.
So If a game isn’t compatible with HGIG, should I set the dynamic tone mapping to on or off for a greater game experience when using LG CX?
Yes
His voice is therapeutic and also comedic all in one
For me the right setting is the one you enjoy most. Playing ghost of Tsushima and Miles Morales, I switched back and forth a a bunch of times from dynamic tone mapping to HGiG and I settled on DTM. I prefer the vibrancy of DTM but appreciate the video. If I change my mind in future and want the accurate creators intent I now know what to do.
How did you do the calibration? Set TV to DTM on or off before you go into the calibration settings?
@@HH1II4 If you use DTM then set it on first them calibrate, same with hgig if you want to use it set in on then calibrate
@@suli559 Never use DTM ON when calibrating! Vincent even says it in the video. You are calibrating something, that is changing while you calibrate and the result is not aplicable to anything else but the calibrating checker screen itself.
@@VareneVino my bad, I'm just recently learning how to calibrate, I used to think that all you had to do was turn on HGiG in the settings, I completely forgot about calibrating my ps5 after doing so, I followed this guide and man hgig looks good, do you use DTM or hgig?
@@suli559 I would calibrate on HGiG setting and then use setting which looks best. DTM ON can be useful for example in a bright room.
The best setting is the one that makes you happy.. I'm always following these suggestions and most of the time they don't look good to me. So I change the settings until I have an image that pleases me, that is the point ...
So true
the hdr calibration visibility points are exactly the same with dtm on and off for the ps5, dtm makes them slightly more defined but the point that the images disappear is exactly the same. so that means dtm on is not changing the maximum visible detail level, just how visible it is in comparison to to full black or full white. if you calibrate with dtm on or off it doesn't look extremely blown out like it does when you calibrate with hgig on and then turn dtm on, which is what was happening here.
yea, dtm on is still brightening the whole image, but i find dtm calibrated with tv brightness at 49 or 48 gets rid of the washed out effect while slightly stretching the low low blacks, making shadow detail just a little more visible while still keeping the 0 black inky. obviously something isnt right with hgig and lg when you have to calibrate outside of the instructed method to make it accurate to machine standards and then also have to change in-game settings to incorrect values to get a correct output. hgig may be officially correct, but it seems pretty clear that the ps5 and lg arent doing the right secret handshake for hgig to work exactly correct if you have to tweak stuff outside of spec to make it actually correct. i think it has something to do with an improper gamma curve or something like that
please do a comparison of assassin's creed valhalla hgig calibrated, and dtm calibrated with brightness lowered, i just cant believe the creator's intent was to make the exquisitely detailed game as dark as it is with hgig. i'd imagine they want people to see the dark details that are lost with hgig rather than a couple extra wisps of light grey in their terribly pixellated 15fps voluminous clouds
actually, the only real way to settle this is get ahold of the actual artists of the games and see what they actually use
Are you not able to light control your room when you watch HDR? That will fix the problem of it being too dark.
For those wondering how to find the right peak brightness setting if no HGIG option is available, I think ignoring the instructions and raising the value until the increases in brightness becomes noticeably smaller is a good way of finding the true non-tone mapped max luminance and I think it looks the best.
So for my TV, after 6 or so clicks right (equivalent to about 700 nits), clicking once more to the right has a much smaller effect on the brightness, so I leave it at 6 clicks. I think the smaller difference is a result of the tone mapping algorithm trying to make a brightness level that shouldn’t be perceivable on your TV noticeable against the 10,000 nit test blocks. Hope this helps others.
Thats not how it works. With the dynamic tone mapping setting set to "Off" you will find the peak brightness of your display once the checkerboard pattern is uniform. Even though the metadata that the console outputs is 3600+ nits the TV tone maps it down to the max luminance level of the display which us somewhere around 700-900 nits for the OLED TVs depending on invidual panel variance.
For using dynamic tone mapping "On" you should just max out the hdr peak brightness sliders as the tv should tone map the entire hdr Brightness range (0-10000 nits) but if the pattern becomes uniform before maxing it out then thats where the peak brightness is clipping.
@@markokuosmanen My TV doesn’t have dynamic tone mapping and it takes way higher peak brightness for the checkerboard to be uniform than my TV actually has.
@@rprkjj8730 In that case your TV has tone mapping. Especially since you mentioned that it doesn't support HGIG which is "real tone mapping off".
CX - Destiny 2 HDR HGIG PS4 Pro:
When the HDR have been calibrated with HGIG enabled (a couple of times to make sure, values for dark/light can change a bit adjusting accordingly, to one or the other) take a look at the moon in the sky (not the Traveler) when you are at the Tower.
It might depend on day or nighttime, if it's there. But with HGIG it will show lots of detail. With dynamic tonemapping, it's like a small lightbulb robbed of detail
My internal DTM vs HGIG debate is so maddening. I understand the purpose of HGIG. I understand why professionals like Vincent are all in agreement that HGIG is the correct setting. But I just can’t get over the fact that DTM On looks so much brighter and more vivid to my pleb eyes.
Anyone else with an LG CX and RTX 3080 feel the same? I can’t be the only one.
One looks better in dark areas and the other in light area's. Both are good depending on if you're in a light or dark place in the game.
@@JoltinJoe yea
DTM On looks flat and dull. Colours aren't punchy because entire image on your face "hey look at me!"
Using HGiG, I'm setting my whitepoint in games to 800 nits for my 48 CX. This seems to be the maximum peak brightness for small areas like a sunrise appearing.
@@Android-ng1wn If the game has its own pattern that you can clip, it should be at least close to the consoles hgig pattern.
Max nits should be about the same.
@@bloomerb4162 So, how should i set slider in games with my Oled C1 HGiG enabled, and PS5 hdr settings like Vincent said in his recent video?
Love my 55 CX!
Best tv ever
Thank god (yes, you!)! Question finally answered, that i had for over a year now! Everyone said, that you should enable DTM on, because there are not enough games that support HGIG. Well, the fact that you can mess everything up even with "DTM off" is just crazy. The example with Dirt 5 was perfect. I will adjust everything tonight, thank you!
Plz keep this up, your professional knowledge combined with this tools is just awesome. Noone on youtube comes close.
In the next video can you explain how technically VRR works on TVs?
It is quite simple in principle. The TV and the console/PC enters an agreement to sync their frames (both need the setting enabled). As soon as the console/PC produces a frame and sends it away, it will tell the TV to "refresh NOW!" so that the TV won't refresh without permission from the console/PC. Without this agreement/setting between the units, the TV will just go "lalalalalala" while covering its ears and keep refreshing 50/60/120 times every second (depending on your TV) while the console/PC tries to mimic those refreshes as much as it can. When that fails, we get screen tearing and stutters.
I love this. So glad you made this video. Very well explained. Thank you!
We have just been spoiled by the DTM default settings brightness. I promise after using HGIG for a few month properly calibrated you will appreciate it more for day or night time gaming. We have to remember our eyes are trained over time while looking at images. I recently tried to switch back to DTM to see how it would look and it is extremely bright and unbearable.
I agree with this one. I recently just played The Last of Us: Part 1 using Vincent's suggestions and have left it on. Playing Tom Clancy's The Division 2 now but I should be getting God of War: Ragnarok from GameFly today
True. However I find it annoyingly complicated.
HGIG is much dimmer than DTM 99 percent of the time. Even when the game supports it and is set up properly.
Over a few days using HGIG, the DTM can look too bright in daytime scenes.
But at the same time, if the game doesn't support HGIG, bright scenes are just too dim.
And each game is different. Some acually look generally better using HGIG, even with the dimmer picture.
But a lot of games acually benefit more from DTM.
And I hate switching settings around for each individual game to get the best look for that particular game.
All I want is a general setting that works decent for all games.
Dolby Vision on the Xbox Series consoles looks best to me. It's neither too dim or too bright. So I like using it for everything.
The PS5 is annoying however. No Dolby Vision. And each game is different. In supported games like Returnal, HGIG looks best. But then in a game like Uncharted, HGIG looks far too dim, and it's HDR is broken and not very adjustable. So DTM is the better choice.
Ugh.
After 10 months of trying HGIG. It can confirm it is implemented in a subpart way
This is great. Thank you for helping make sense of this new technology. All of your videos have been extremely helpful.
I really would like to know who is downvoting this man's videos....they are always informative, and he's funny to boot. What exactly is to dislike? On second thought, I really don't want to know who is downvoting.....best to leave them to their misery.
Interesting point: Gears 5 was built using Unreal Engine 4 - that engine uses ACES (Academy Color Encoding System).
It can use ACES, Gears5 doesn’t actually use the ACES tonemapper
@@EvilBoris I know, but for future reference on UE4/5 games
HGIG is too dark for me. It looks good especially if you put Dynamic Contrast on ‘Low’. I turned DTM ‘ONE instead of HGIG and looks so much better for my TV at least.
U still use DTM ? I use HGIG but DTM looks better for me ... But I have fear from burn in with DTM and OLED 100 ( I primary play Warzone ) ? Your panel is still in good condition ?
@@hanovaema yep. Perfect condition.
Trust me hgig is the better option i play almost a year with it and when i turn dtm on it looks so washed out and overbrighten
I appreciate your video and all technical details you talked about very much, but for me HGIG is too dark and in some places you can't see anything to recognize the difference in details!
Changing the HDR calibration from the PS5 settings is not sufficient at all, and changing it for each game is not convenient since some of them don't support that
In my experience with using HGIG with my CX in a nutshell:
Dim the entire game by 20-30% to slightly increase detail in the sky/clouds/sun/certain light sources
I just leave DTM on, a punchier image is just better to look at. Fuck "accuracy" and creative intent.
Then you might as well just turn off hdr and crank up the oled brightness in sdr mode.
@@Y0URGRANDMA that's wrong advice, SDR peaks at 300nits max where as HDR goes up to 700nits.
LG B8 I have doesn’t have hgig so the option is tone mapping on or off. So which would be the more accurate option? Is there a default number of clicks to set the peak brightness 🔆 of an oled display to around its max 700 nits?
I've got the same questions! Hope that someone will and actually can explain! 🤞🏾
Doesn't apply to me, but I'm curious.
bump
Tone mapping off is the better option. You will have more accurate brightness levels compared to dynamic tone mapping. Set in-game HDR brightness to max before it clips.
@@Diwwah in his other video didn’t he state that you should set it right where it clips. That’s what he did. Then he set the peak black at the lowest level. Not sure if that’s because he had an HGIG compliant TV though
@@Ask-Ali I'm specifically referring to when the dynamic tone mapping is set to "off".
Best of LG CX paired with PS5 In-Depth Settings following HDTV Test, EvilBoris, AVForums recommendations:
(warning: long read)
I’ve researched for days and days on this subject since I, myself, am a big accurate image fanboy and to get straight to the point here is what i extracted from these professionals:
For LG CX:
1. Set PC Mode for HDMI Input in “Dashboard” - to get take advantage of 4:4:4 Chroma because PS5 Outputs 4k 60 HDR Full RGB. You will need a HDMI 2.1 Cable for your TV to Output 4k60HDR RGB - use the cable that came with the PS5, it’s 2.1 ready.
2. Select HDR Game Mode profile for the lowest input lag on your TV settings while your PS5 is ON in the menu.
3. Set OLED Light 100, Contrast 100, Brightness 50, Sharpening 0, Color 50, Tint 0 - these are the most accurate image settings! (4k doesn’t need artificial sharpening)
4. Select HGIG mode regardless if the game supports it or not, this will give you the most accurate HDR displaying PERIOD. It will allow your TV to display HDR only to it’s maximum peak brightness capabilities without creating additional unnecessary tonemap.
Using DTM ON or OFF is double tonemapping your image so that’s a NO GO regardless if it makes the picture look more poppy and pleasing to the eye, that’s not accurate at all. For more information on this regard check HDTV Test video on “DTM ON vs OFF vs HGIG”.
5. Ultra HD Color Output must be ON, Instant Game Response ON, AMD freesync OFF
6. Set Color Temperature to WARM 2 as it is the most accurate ¬ 6.500 Kelvin.
7. Black Level AUTO - this will automatically change based on the content you view, usually it should be LOW and LIMITED on PS5. HDTV Test recommends AUTO for both TV and Console, Evil Boris recommends Low - Limited to be safe!
7. Keep everything else on DEFAULT.
On PS5:
1. Go to PS5 - Video Output and leave everything on Automatic
2. Under Adjust HDR setting while having HGIG enabled, just go one step above the visible sun making it just invisible. This applies for the first two screens. It will output around 1000 nits which is the accurate intent for HGIG. On the last screen, the dark one, set all the way to the bottom. This will prevent you from getting elevated blacks or gray blacks. These settings are recommended by HDTV Test using an HDR Analysis monitor.
3. Leave everything else on DEFAULT.
Check if your console is outputting 4k 60hz RGB by pressing the GREEN button 7 times on your remoted. A panel will show on screen telling you the following information: 5.5, FIXED, 4K resolution, RGB 12bit 4L8. If this is what you get then your TV and Console is taking advantage of HDMI 2.1 correctly using 32 Gbps bandwith at which PS5 is currently capped.
Note 1: If you intend to use 120 Hz, you need to go into Console Settings and for some games set Game Performance mode. Only through this way you will take benefit of 120Hz. Beware that the console can only output 4k 120 YUV 4:2:2 and not FULL RGB 4:4:4 Chroma in which case you might want to change the HDMI Input from PC back to Game Console in your Dashboard.
Note 2: For the clearest and most accurate image quality based on personal preference i recommend you play in 4k 60 fps HDR RGB.
Congratulations if you followed my steps your LG CX OLED TV and Playstation 5 are correctly adjusted and calibrated. Enjoy! For more additional information please reply to this commentary and if you found my information useful please LIKE!
Thanks Dani. Should i do the same changes for my C9? 👍
"Set PC Mode for HDMI Input in 'Dashboard'" Is it not possible to do this if I have all my devices routed through my AVR to my CX? When I go to the Dashboard settings, I'm not able to select the TV's HDMI input that's connected to my AVR.
"Beware that the console can only output 4k 120 YUV 4:2:2 and not FULL RGB 4:4:4 Chroma in which case you might want to change the HDMI Input from PC back to Game Console in your Dashboard." What is the reasoning behind this? Will leaving it in PC Mode not allow 4k 120 YUV 4:2:2 output?
@@adrianrodrigues1988 yes, just instead of Auto on Black Levels and RGB Range in console set Low Limited if you dont have Auto Auto
@@SpookyApparition it does allow yes! but i dont know the effects of having a 4:4:4 chroma mode like PC while using it in pair with 4:2:2 YUV @ 4k 120hz (console). Maybe it's no difference whatsoever but for safety reasons i would select Game Mode if i intend to play in 4k 120hz. For 4k 60 hz HDR RGB let it in PC Mode.
@@danic8835 that makes sense, thank you!
Great as usual.
Destiny 2 gets its graphics update for the new consoles (4K 60fps) on the 8th of December. I would love you to do an LG CX best settings video please if think people will watch it.
So you can either use HGiG and it will work great for some games, but other without proper adjustment will just hard clip at 700 nits, or you can use Off which does additional tone mapping but will work on every title.
This is a mess :/ Consumers should not have to remember which titles use HGiG and which doesn't have the proper adjustments. I'm probably going to keep this at Off so it will work across all titles. Thank you for the explanation :)
To anyone stumbling on this comment, actually I think the best thing to do in 95%+ cases is to leave it on HGiG. This is because almost every HDR game has some form of calibration screen where you can set the peak brightness anyway. The fact that it clips is actually a feature. It means that when you are calibrating the game, you get a more accurate picture regardless of whether the calibration is in-game or from the console-wide setting. Also works on PC games since there is no system-wide Windows 10/11 HDR calibration (at this time)
Where does this "devs need to add support for HGIG for it to work" come from?
It's setting ONLY ON TV. Setting that tells TV to NOT DO any tone mapping.
The HGIG is useless tool due to not all games support it, meanwhile the tone map HDR is more reliable for all games, I tried to use HGIG but its too dim I can't see anything while playing due to black crash on it making me go back to recommend setting with tone mapping
Agreed. Dynamic tone mapping looks better than hgig tone mapping. Especially in games not supporting hgig
Same here with rift apart on PS5 had to tone map it
Great video, how about a lesson in the other settings like paper white, brightness and contrast? 👍
I've been playing hunter call of the wild for about 6 months now, and on my £200 4K LG TV I randomly found the Hgig setting, and I turned it on and no exaggeration, the game looks remastered, as if it's a current gen game, the funny thing about this, is that there is no current gen version for this game, I'm running the xbox one edition on the series X, but I can't believe how upgraded the whole game looks, all because of one setting that I missed when I first set up the TV. Normally I don't get this exited over technology, but this, this is something else.
What about if my tv doensnt have hgig and just have hdr tone mapping?
Should i turn hdr tone mapping on when calibrating hdr in xbox series x? Or else?
My tv has a peak of 600 nits
One looks better in dark areas and the other in light area's. Both are good depending on if you're in a light or dark place in the game.
in watch dogs legion there are two hdr options, including the paper white, so what should we set for the cx? and bf5 also has a similar settings in numbers
What about in the older OLEDS like B8 and the ps5.....I always leave Dynamic tone mapping off and its recommened as well in this video, but how about Dynamic contrast??? Any downside to engaging that on Low or Medium for games??? Or just leave it off like tone mapping?
Better to leave it off, dynamic contrast you can lose detail in shadows and highlights
Amazing job! Just what we needed! Thanks Vincent for sharing your knowledge with us! Most useful channel on TH-cam! I wish they had a patreon.
We do have a Patreon, though not explicitly promoted: www.patreon.com/hdtvtest
@@hdtvtest Hey Vincent, I was wondering if you could look into what tv settings I should use for my LG CX while running Google Stadia. Thank you.
Can you do HDR for Samsung TVs ? I have a Q9FN and can’t decide on what’s best.
Rtings.com can also tell you some basic calibration settings for getting a more natural picture. If you want a natural picture but can’t do calibration, rule of thumb is to turn off motion processing options (motion interpolation, judder reduction, black frame insertion, etc.), turn sharpness to 0, set colors to warm for closest to 6500k color temperature (unless you want to manually calibrate it), set the tv to game mode for lowest latency, and turn on local dimming to help the contrast for HDR.
Vincent with this video you finally raised yourself to the olymp! ❤ thx a lot
Since I am a noob I consider this tv tuning for dummies. Great explanation love it and your using the xbox just want I needed. Perfect! Thank you
When running games in HDR on my PS4 i set to HGIG and use the ingame settings to adjust down the contrast a notch or 2, so that the dark scenes wont appear too dark and still can make out the shadow details. Looks like new games now has HDR brightness.
personally I don't think HGIG takes full advantage of what OLED can achieve when it comes to colours/contrast and blacks, again I enjoy your videos inputs and views, this is just my personal take, although I do think there should be a HGIG standard specifically designed for OLED screens that also include and take full advantage of the benefits of OLED like colours/contrast and blacks, switching to HGIG in its current form on LG OLED CX just feels cheap and lazy as it dims the whole screen just as DTM brightens the whole screen, the only problem is dimming the whole screen with HGIG looks and feels a lot worse than what DTM does by brightening the whole screen the effect is not as intense and can be countered with ingame brightness reduction, hope this helps for anyone else.
If you want brighter (and more innacurate) HDR you need an LCD I'm afraid. The duller overall image is how it's supposed to look, how long are you waiting after you change it to HGIG to decide it's "too dull"? Try a dark room and wait/play for 45 mins before deciding if it's too dark for you.
Gears 5 and Ori and Will of the Wisps would like to have a word with you.
Also you do know that to get best out of HGIG you have to calibrate console level HDR and in game HDR settings with HGIG. Your brightness is probably set too low because of how much DTM On brightens up image.
@poeticalbliss7882 I prefer creators intent, its subjective, you can enjoy your set how you like, just accept it and move on.
Prefer dynamic tone map ON personally
Awesome. i asked exactly this topic under the last video and here is the answer. Love it
Even more than Dynamic Tone mapping, I notice the "black level" setting crushes blacks even worse, and is often set incorrectly. Many often mistakenly set it to Low, instead of high or auto. Thinking "well, I paid for the OLED deep blacks, no way I'm going to set the blacks high! Gotta go with low". But that is the wrong setting. It crushes the shit out of the shadow detail.
Edit: It apparently varies though. With a full quality RGB, or 4:4:4 feed (like PS5, PC), high black level is the preferred setting, as Low crushes blacks... The "Low" setting is apparently designed for lower quality "limited range" material.. Like 422, or 420, or Ycrcb.
To me in my room setting HGIG is to dull of an image.
Dynamic tone mapping looks far better, I might lose minor detail in highlights but that’s better than the whole screen being to dark
Same here
Same. I know its wrong but I do prefer things to pop. Dynamic Contrast to me is a better looking image for me personally. I have tried to get used to using HGiG but I feel like there is something missing from the picture. The only time I will consider using is with games that support the feature.
dtm also darkens scenes pretty aggressive but if your eyes don't see that effect good for you.
I'm in this camp. Turning on DTM makes the image much more how I think it should look. If I lose some slight detail in really bright things so that I can have an overall brighter image without overexposure.. Then that's what I'm gonna do.
What is your "black level" setting at? If it's set to low, that could be what is overly darkening the image. "High" seems to be the preferred settings (for high quality feeds, like full RGB, 4:4:4" etc.), counter-intuitive as it may be..
What about if the game doesn’t support HGIG? Should I leave HGIG on anyways?
Have you watched the video or just asking?
I use hdr filmmaker with allm on with dtm on at 4000 nits on the c3 with blk lvl at 48 and -4 dark areas from optimizer menu and it looks amazing I think. With hgig the c3 caps at only 800 nits. Like fire and other little things like that the 4000 nits is killer❤
I do understand your point on HGiG Vincent, however only a few games support this feature and also not all games allow for manual HDR calibration. Thus, I think the more convenient way is to turn on dynamic tone mapping as ‘off’ is not an option. Keep also in mind that most folks don’t want to calibrate each game individually for HDR.
No need to calibrate individually. You setup the TV properly and then you don't need to do it on a per game basis. Some games just have crappy HDR implements and in those cases I use SDR.
Do you have link to list of games that have added HGIG API?
I know, it's not API or code and there's no games that support it because it's setting only on TV which prevents TV from doing tone mapping and instead just show content like it was sent by console.
If everything pops, nothing pops. I always turn off all TV post processing, but that's interesting that "Off" isn't actually off.
So glad that he remembered one of the awesome lines from The Incredibles. Good for him!! Lol
Technically it is off meaning dynamic tone mapping is off, but it still tone maps statically set to off
Vinny, with all this DTM talk, I'd like for you to assess Sony's undefeatable DTM on their A8H and A9G. In reviews for those TVs, you've mentioned you prefer watching with Dolby Vision "off" and relaying on DTM. I have UB9000 and use HDR Optimizer to limit peak luminance to 1000 nits, and rely on DTM.
Your detailed assessment would be greatly appreciated.
its cos their DV sucks so bad you need to use their DTM.
Omg I had it set to tone mapping onnnnnnn because I liked that it made everything more vibrant. I’m such a fool. Now I’ve fixed it and I’m playing Valhalla trying to adjust my brain to everything being darker but sunlight and colours are coming through way better. Dammit. I’m so dumb. Was also able to use Vincent’s advice and look up at the sun peaking between the clouds and adjust the nits so that I could make out cloud detail. I’m the dumbest man aliiiiiive thank you Vincent 😭
Also that “useless as the p in pneumonia” was an A+ didn’t-see-it-coming banger of a joke
Don't be so hard on yourself! The game devs, tv makers and console makers don't make this stuff easy on us. Not to mention, what looks good to YOUR eyes might not look good to someone else's.
Thank you. I still am unsure of this one thing on the PS5 with certain games... Hope you could put this to rest?:
A PS5 calibrated in "Adjust HDR" with HGIG (as you suggested) + game no in-game nits adjustments that is clipping whites while using HGIG (Demon's Souls, for example, Gates of Boletaria clouds).
Recalibrating to have the sun be more visible made no difference, but setting the TV to C9 DTM Off did.
Does this mean these games aren't taking into account the PS5 calibration values we had just set in "Adjust HDR" (as recalibrating made no difference)?
In this case I would think one can simply set "DTM Off", without actually doing the "Adjust HDR" all over again with "DTM Off".
Am I correct in assuming this?
i saw MS and Sony came up (or helped) with HGIG...so why does Bravia TVs not have HGIG tone mapping option!!
PSA to briefly summarize the video and correct all the incorrect information in the comments. Use HGiG for accuracy if the game has an HDR calibration slider and/or is HGiG compliant, DTM off if it is neither of those. Never DTM ON unless you don't value image accuracy and you prefer the image that way (to each their own right?)
Extra info: DTM off for movies for image accuracy as well.
Thanks for this, but I don't think @HDTVTest ever says, "DTM off if it is neither of those." In fact, I think the implication is that for gaming, HGIG is "set it and forget it."
@@ShruggingAtlas80 Yeah np. Yes it is implied that way because the vast majority of games with HDR have an in game calibration slider usually, which will allow the game to tone map the image based on the parameters you set for it in game, so HGiG should be enabled. In those rare instances that the game neither supports HGiG nor has an in game slider to calibrate HDR then you would have no choice but to have DTM off to enable the display to tone map the image, otherwise you'll get lots of highlight detail clipped out if you enable HGiG.
Thank you. It’s great to have some direction here. It’s also nice to constantly fiddle, but the direction is great.
So you recommend on tvs with no hgig to go until the squares disapear.. but what is with this example. The lg oled goes to 800nits on hgig because it os his max brightness, but with dtm off it clipps over 3000nits. Don t you think that its more accurate to go as high what the tv is able to reach even with dtm off? Like in this example use 10 clicks to go to 800nits. Is there still a big different to higig mode?
Vincent, can you make a short video, why it is important to leave oled light and kontrast at 100 for HDR content? Many people don't understand the difference between SDR and HDR and oled light
Do these need to be set for 100?
So where do you set the HDR Brightness slider in games, all the way to the right?
Max out the setting? Can some explain this to me in simple terms.
Please
Hdr brightness is how many nits your tv can display. So for example, my B9 averages around 500-530 depending on the panel variance. But I keep it at 500 because that seems to be the safer choice
Just can’t get used to HGIG on OLED CX and Ps5 in living room. What do you recommend? It looks so dark. I feel like an expensive tv needs to be vibrant.
@Cryer24597 my main complaint is in Miles Morales with HGIG and also Ps5 Home Screen is so dark and flat with HGIG on.
@Cryer24597 Hey you seem pretty knowledgeable about this stuff and I have an Xbox too so I’m hoping you can help. Vincent mentions in the video that leaving hgig on is good for any game that lets you adjust hdr in-game or for any game that lets you adjust hdr on the console, does that mean I can just leave hgig on for every game I play on my series x due to me being able to adjust hdr in the Xbox display settings?
So what if you also use your console to watch Netflix or 4K Blue Ray DVD? Is it still better to calibrate using HGiG? How does this affect HDR media in general apart from games?
Vincent, thank you. Great video as always. If a game isn't HGIG compliant and doesn't provide its own HDR calibration sliders, then would setting DTM to Off provide the best image? I would love to see a video exploring this.
From what I nottice? If the game doesn't have hdr options? Then its grey out. I'm guessing that will be turned off.
Use HGIG so that the tv doesn’t do any tone mapping to the image. The only reasons to use OFF would be if you’re constantly getting clipped highlights that bother you. But most games don’t have a lot of stuff above 800 nits, so it’s not really a problem.
Great explanation, answered some more questions I was thinking about.
Game developers seems to have more focus on visual impact rather than photo realistic images or “accuracy.”
HDR isn't the answer for this either but maybe that's just showing that it's not implemented correctly (yet) even though the developer claims the game is HDR.
No that's not the case there are standards for gaming aswel it's just the game mode tvs are set to is unrealistic and not using the full gamut of srgb standards of rec709 devs use calibrated monitors that means and hdr monitors are still hit and miss yet theynare trying to calibrate to a new standard which is not bright enough to full utilise it so stop using hdr
Ile be using sdr till they solve hdr which will be in 50 years time since it took sdr long enough to hit pure black sdr yet the hdr gamut is under 90% its not covering the full range of hdr yet so now you get my problem with hdr the colours are gonna be inaccurate the brightness is not bright enough to show the dynamic range
@@jonathanoxlade4252 HGIG, properly calibrated, takes full advantage of panels brightness.
For example LG C3 can't go higher than 800 nits. Yes, DTM does claim to get to 4000 nits but it's not. While it tries to go all the way to 4000 nits it's also tone mapping down to what panel can actually do which in C3's case is 800 nits.
What HGIG does is that it removes that additional up and down tone mapping part.
You're wrong about dynamic range too. It's DTM On that has narrower dynamic range. That's because it compresses dynamic range by lifting midtones making overall brightness higher.
Well the problem is that oled has ABL and HGIG dims the screen even more I cant get it to look good at all . ON works best for me
@@vdentertaiment4088 I'm in a dark room hgig nor good enough less clarity
Is good to run HGiG on PS5/XboxSX games even though the majority of games aren't HGiG compliant, unless stated by the developer?
Even a game that isn’t HGiG compliant will benefit provided that you tweak the in-game HDR calibration settings correctly.
@@bollywongaloid It seems redundant to me to run HGiG, if you're going to need to change your tv settings for each game (that doesn't have a sophisticated HDR setting like gears of War) in order to benefit from it.
@@truninja6476 just about every HDR game has an in-game HDR calibration screen though. You won’t need to keep changing the tv settings
I bought a lg 49nano85una not to long ago, since my budget would not allow for a CX or a Sony X900H. Now should I still use HGiG, even though the nits on this TV are said to be at 550?
@@truninja6476 i would.
I get that. But I'm still going to use DTM ON instead of HGiG. I prefer having a brighter, punchier image and lose some fine details in the highlights here and there than having an overally dimmer image. In some games it really is way too dim and unless you are playing in a pitch black room that's absolutely a no go.
The answer unfortunately is that you should be playing HDR games in a dark room. Get some blackout blinds/thick curtains for during the day, they cost 1/10 of what you paid for the OLED.
I have a ZD9 LCD, which is one of he brightest LCDs in the world and I still have to watch HDR in the dark. Its just how it works with human eyes.
Get those blinds mate, you won't regret it once you see a proper image in the dark. You have to let your eyes adjust for 30-45 mins, don't just switch and decide immediately that it's too dark. Same with colour balance being too orange/yellow, just give it time to adjust in your eyes.
Hope that helps mate.
@@Kuranghi my room is completely dark during night time but I still prefer DTM On even then
@@00kayem How long do you wait before you decide it's too dark?
Why do you have sun like star in your room? Do you have SAD?
congratulations , your video was featured on the PS5 review video on linus tech tips
Come for the information, keep coming back for Vincent's jokes. 😆
The problem here is only a few games actually utilise HGIG correctly, I think Modern Warfare is one from memory. Most games that don't utilise it look very dim and less appealing which is much more noticeable on an OLED screen like the LG C9 or Cx which has a low peak brightness compared to LCD LED.I believe for my eyes anyway that Dynamic Tone Mapping is very helpful for OLED as opposed to say a Samsung Qled where peak brightness is not an issue.
HGIG is litteraly no different to HDR tone mapping off. Not one game supports HGIG.
Not yet. Its kind of a future proof thing.
6:56 "Crass jokes."
What crass jokes?
14:17 - Oh, I see.
Excellent explanation of tweaking Displays... I do this w/ 7q gen 4k Samsung Tv's when it comes to Dynamic contrast+HDMI black levels+ ST or BT gamma tweaks... vs HDR lol... (the HDR of that TV is older and less quality) so I found these broad conclusions 100% accurate! well done sir.
The lg e8 doesn’t have hgig so is tone mapping ok to use ?
Tone mapping looks terrible.. definitely dont want something adjusting the pic to look too bright.
HGIG + AI Brightness Control (on LG CX) = good idea for bright room ?? Or we need disable AI Brightness Control for gaming ?
I just set the screen to power saving off during bright room times, then I set it to minimum or medium in the evening/night. This setting will only dim the image slightly after all and not impact the overall quality of it. And yes, that is without the AI brightness control.
@@XDLugia i put all time my screen with power saving off. My question is : AI Brightness Control is it a solution for a clearer image with HGIG ?
@@XDLugia I just understand : When the screen saver is turning off, the AI Brightness Control must be turn off too. This is ?
@@MonkeyK3y I do not know to be honest. I never enabled AI brightness control or I just turned it off as soon as I set up the television.
I wish they would give us sliders to adjust image brightness at 1 Nit, 10 Nits, 100 Nits, and 1,000 Nits.
Of course Zero should always be Zero, but sometimes I want to raise near-black detail to compensate for my display's native black crush (Samsung), but most in game brightness adjustments will wash out the whole image if I raise brightness enough to recover the near-black detail.
And then sometimes I do want the overall image brightened just without raising any shadow levels.
So for me the ideal setting would be to raise 1 Nit details to 2 Nits, and then raise 100 Nit details to 150 Nits, but do that without affecting the 10 Nit or 1,000 Nit settings.
I set 1000 nits mastering peak in the secret menu and on ps5 the difference in calibration of HDR compared Dynamic Tone-Mapping On to HGIG was 16 clicks vs 14 until it disappears completely, or 15 clicks with a tiny circle visibility vs 14 clicks with a disappears completely. I propose to conduct tests on this matter. (Dynamic on _vs_hgig)