So yeah with the coming of the next generation of Fighters in stuff like SF6, Tekken 8 and all that, new games drive new controller sales, especially after such said controllers are becoming more and more visible in high level tournaments and general play and thats why we are talking about them today! I guess to note this is in no way a "sponsored" vid, I paid for each controller featured with my own money thank you very much lol, just showing you the options out there, so watch the vid and let me know what ya think!
I'm going to build my own, since I want more control over customizing my first custom build all button controller. Since the pre-made ones doesn't seem to have that much flexibility. Though prove me wrong. :)
Just to note, the Evo champ of ggst used a pad same with the runner up. And idom who came second in sfv used a pad but kowano the sfv champ used a box.
I have quite the growing collection of leverless controllers now and I do wanna say specifically for the Furin FRS, not only is the form factor good/layout/customization options fantastic, before making this video I reached out to a bunch of the leverless style controller makers with some questions, and frankly I got straight up up ignored by everyone except for the gentleman behind the Furin FRS, which is the exact reason I wound up buying that controller. Dudes a good guy who makes a quality product.
I just hope Arcade Sticks dont dissappear. I played fighting games with all 3 main options and stick is by far my favorite one. There is just nothing that compares to the feel of the stick for me
My Hitbox works on the PS5 because since this video was released and I have a Brook Universal Fighting Board, I also installed the UFB-UP5 daughter board which forces full PS5 compatibility for the Brook Universal Fighting Board, and the Brook PS4 + Audio PCB. Also, there was a recent release of the Brook Wingman FGC which causes most WIRED controllers and arcade sticks to work with the PlayStation 5. Very soon [if it hasn't happened already...,] Brook will be releasing the Brook Universal Fighting Board Fusion, which is PlayStation 5 compatible for fighting games.
Furin FRS user here. Was one of the first customers to pre-order one. I also have The OG Hitbox, Snackbox and Okiboard but for me the Furin is easily my best leverless controller of the bunch!
Necro comment but hey. I’m on the fence which hitbox style controller I should buy and I really don’t like the super tiny ones. That leaves Okiboard and Furin for me. Why do you like Furin the most? It looks amazing.
@@DutchDeathGod Okibord is great but it has one problem. It is not customisable. It is locked with 24mm buttons for the directionals and 30mm for the action buttons. I prefer 24mm as the action buttons personally. Furin on the other hand you can customize it so that you can have either 24mm or 30mm as the directional/action buttons. Not only that you can customize it so the directional button can be in hitbox style or WASD style. with WASD you can keyboard buttons or 24mm, My Furin is a slanted mixbox, WASD directional keyboard buttons with 24mm action buttons plus a single 30mm up button. I hope this helps.
If you're having problems with wrist and hand pain during extended play sessions, try sticking a keyboard wrist rest to your controller with double sided tape. Did wonders for me. Preferably choose one with a hard bottom for better adhesion
Well not to fully spoil a future video, but someone did make a leverless controller specifically with wrist and hand pain in mind. Its uhhhh a very crazy looking device to say the least and it deserves its own video which is why it wasnt in this one.
@@rooflemonger Neat! I made my controller out of hardwood and built the wrist rest in to it, so I'm looking forward to seeing what other ergonomic options are out there that I might be able to integrate.
@@TheRed5815 it’s been good. Difficult at first with motion inputs. The quarter circles are harder to do compared to controller and stick. The inputs are cleaner and movement is faster. There are pros and cons. I recommend it over stick though.
You've been itching to talk about that Furin, haven't you? Lol, I don't blame you. Looks amazing! I use an Eternal Rival S-Rank leverless myself. It's light, form factor is simple but clean, and I have access to all my buttons right there on the face, both attack and aux buttons. Suits me just fine.
I built my first fight stick quite a while ago (shoutouts to AFS cases, they rock). Tried a lever, but it made my wrist hurt and I was having a hell of a time adjusting to it. Then I tried a Hitbox layout and it worked perfectly for me. For me, it’s not a matter of how easy the inputs are, so much as the sheer comfort. I also like charge characters like May from Guilty Gear, and those sorts of motions just feel so natural with a stickless layout. Only problem is the half circle motions I have to use for some moves.
How does the s SOCD cleaning work on your device? If it's L+R=N, just go back, back+down, back+down+towards, down+ towards, towards for a half circle towards. Plink the buttons down then negative edge them off in the same direction and you'll never mess it up.
When BBTAG got rollback netcode I tried to practice some combos but kept noticing I would drop 236 movement. I went into practice mode and just did 236s over and over and noticed, doing the same movement, I would get a successful 236 movement roughly 3/10 of the time. I decided I would buy a fight stick and upon research I stumbled upon HitBOX. I grew up playing games on both consoles and PC so the idea of a purely digital controller intrigued me. I bought the controller, went into practice mode, and once I got used to the controls I never dropped another input. Every "miss input" was now my own mistake and that helped me get better and more consistent. Honestly it's hard going back. I'm aware of the unfair stuff it can do and purposely don't do those things, I just use it because it's the most accurate for me.
Bought my first arcade stick . Was stuck between the all button and arcade stick one . The way I see it the all button one is a little less fun to play on but can be more competitive in matches . Arcade stick way more fun but not as competitive vs a player with the all button layout . 🤷🏽♂️
A thing that's curious about the whole SOCD and input reader talk is that I find, in particular, Guilty Gear Strive's reader to be quite strict. Especially as someone who's got their first ever stick like three months ago. Still struggling with botching my Busters and Giganters because I didn't QUITE go all the way to Back. With various DPs, it's also less forgiving if you go from Forward, to Down back to full Forward, rather than down-forward. It's still fun to be on stick, quite comfortable to play. Am considering a hitbox style at some point BUT my legacy as a keyboard player is a double-edged sword there. Always had directions on the right hand and having tried out mapping similar layouts to the keyboard, I was struggling with the left so I'd want a "lefty" hitbox which is less common (thought it does look like I can reverse the top panel of one of the Acrycade models). We'll see what the future holds =3
The Razor Kitsune is going to be an interesting loverless fighstick. Its another official one for Playstation, but the buttons are the linear switches like the Furin FRS.
It's so funny 'cos a year ago, I was saying to myself that I would never touch a controller like this, not when I already have a pad or an arcade stick. But since last Christmas, I did a complete U-turn because, as you said, the stick is just too physically laborious for extended sessions. I also started to find it imprecise. I now use the Razer Kitsune for fighting games exclusively. Now that I have experienced leverless first-hand, I can't go back to pad or stick. It just feels so good! I love the look of the original Hitbox and the Victrix, but they are both far too big to store in my living room.
What I would like to see with things like these types of controllers is the inclusion of an arcade stick above the Dpad buttons, of course you would need to have a switch to turn off the Dpad buttons and switch to the arcade stick and so but that would be cool to see, there probably are some sticks out there now that are exactly like that.
I think having it above would be a bad idea, you''d either have to have it unaturally high or would need to lower the movment buttons unaturally low, neither of which is good for posture. However there are stick types with fast detachable levers, so you could have your stick just below the buttons (where a stick would usually go) and just put it on when you want to use it, take it off when you don't
i started getting in fighting games recently, I started with a hitbox. im having an easier time and a lot more fun than i did with a stick tbh. it reminds me of playing piano in a way
I love my HitBox. It's helped my wrists and hands so much and now that I'm accustomed to it, games are starting to feel more natural. Still can't 360 on it, but I couldn't 360 on pad, either, so
Bought a hit box about a year ago and love it. But if you’re ass at the game the controller isn’t going to really change anything. A better player with a pad or stick is still going to wreck you.
Personally...I feel like Hitboxes are in the same lane as stick and pad...another controller option with a drawback. Pretty sure hitbox will be great with charge characters...but stuff like half or full circle or pretzel inputs will be more difficult. I don't know...some people call it a "cheatbox", but I don't see a big advantage to using hitbox over any other controller. Then again...Im a simple man who uses pad and that is already complex enough for me.
Another option is the ODIN mod. It replaces a lever stick with a wasd key setup. I got one and played around with it for a bit, takes a couple seconds to install and all you need is a screwdriver if that's how you open up your stick.
Very intersting video Rooflemonger. So as I am an Xbox player and living in the UK I think the availibility of hitbox style controllers will be limited, but I will certainly have to look around for one. If it makes 720 easier then I am in.
I like the concept of hitboxes, but my hands always cramp up when playing them. I type often and enough that I figured it wouldn't be an issue, but for whatever reason, probably something to do with how I rest my hands, I end up in pain every time. It all works out though since I can go hours playing on stick without any wrist pain whatsoever. I just dread the day when carpal tunnel finally sets in. If that ever happens, hopefully there will be some more ergonomic hitbox solutions on the market.
Just play on keyboard. There are no "Hitbox exclusive" techs. All of them are fully available on keyboard. If anyone thinks Hitbox is cheatbox, ask whether the game they play is on PC, it likely is, you can't deny people playing on keyboard, because of that Hitbox is not cheating. Also new players in the scene who are Hitbox, because of Hitboxes they even can participate, imagine coming to Evo with your arcade stick 3000 EX not realizing PS5 only supports dance pads.
The Hit Box craze overall is a good thing. It'll help as fighting games become more PC based, which opens up more products to create and more sponsors. The taboo part of hit boxes mostly comes from how unregulated the inputs are and fighting game developers just haven't caught up with balancing their inputs compared to standard pad or lever devices. When that all becomes more regulated it should be less of a "cheat box"
actually the most interesting thing about this is that the HITBOX style controller is not the OG default, arcades somehow cameup with the idea of a leaver for inputing movement instead of just adding 4 more buttons. IDK its just funny to think about
I builded a leverless controller myself a few months ago and I must say even if I was sceptical at first, if there will be a noticable different for an ...well FG enjoyer.... I must say the different is extreme. First of all the wrist issue you stated, I can 100% confirm that - it is so much better for longer sessions. But what me got hooked on the controller was how precise the motion inputs can get with that. Yeah I understand with enough practice you can also be extremely precise with a lever or pad, BUT never on the level a hitbox style controller will be. The only thing it felt 'bad' was the fact, that some inputs can be done in a way you are not be able on the other controller types....so I can absolutely understand that some in the FGC call it a cheatbox.
I recently bought a Snackbox Micro because I've always wanted to learn the hitbox layout. I gotta say it is more comfortable when you get used to it. For anyone curious in one, the big thing is to loosen up and just let your fingers do the work. You'll have to break a lot of old habits. Don't try to rest your palms, just let your hands hover over it
Been curious about trying one since I experimented a bit on keyboard when helping a friend who hadn't played any FGs before. Stuff like KOF really gets my wrist feeling SOMETHING (not pain, thankfully, but still something). And I think I'd probably enjoy it more than a stick for certain games, such as Tekken. Not sure which to get though, but a lot of the nicest looking options are rather pricey for me. So I've just been mulling over the options for a while.
I use a hitbox to play dbfz, but there is a double edge sword with it's accuracy: Sometimes I input 8 then 1ms later the 6 to do a 9, but the game understands that I want to do a 8 instead. In dbfz at least, you have to input the opposite: 6 then 8 in the same milliseconds. And with the pinky it becomes hard if you don't practice a lot. A lot less intuitive to move around than a joystick for sure
I switched to a hitbox because I wanted to fix the fact that a lot of the time, I was adding an upward diagonal input while trying to do moves on a pad and when I tried using a stick, my shoulder got incredibly sore...and I felt WAY slower on the stick with Nu-13 in blazblue. Leverless was the best of all worlds for me. I honestly haven't looked back since I started using one.
I got the Razer Kitsune cuz my left hand was hurting for 3 weeks playing on the PS5 controller. Even tho I had to learn how to play with this controller and feel like a beginner I enjoy it. Been playing almost 2 weeks and I'm getting there. Can do more combos and execute moved better but still have to get use to moving with buttons and strengthening my left ring finger.
Hardware SOCD should be a thing in the past for modern games. All raw inputs could be managed within the game or application. So it doesn’t matter what controller you use, the game will dictate the execution with those inputs.
I'm probably one of many people who was searching perfect controller for fighting games. Tried the stick,regular controllers like xbox one or ps4. But ( fairly recently) discovered (and it's probably not a popular opinion) PC keyboard. I had mechanical keyboard in the past ,now I have Logitech G213 and it's great. Also works with consoles. Keyboards also great playing platform fighters. Downside to that is that you don't have much space for your hand to rest and second is all buttons are clumped up so you can hit accidentally hit unwanted button and in competetive matches is really important. Final thing is depending which keyboard you use, the button size. We have different size of hands,so it's different for everyone using different controllers. Final thoughts are use what you are comfortable using. But what comes to long sessions I noticed that I can't do the same motions easily like on arcade stick,but movement with a controller is much better (double dash). I think what comes to hitboxes-they are great, I think the main downside like with premium arcade sticks is the price,so not every casual gamer want to spend this amount of money.
For many reasons. I cannot crouch shoryuken. I get it sometimes and not all the time. But there was a shortcut to it. It is as you said. Forward, down, down forward. Just those 3. I also heard that sometimes doing the motion will come with other stuff not intended. So I wrote that down.
Hi @rooflemonger, many thanks for this high quality video (as usual 😉) I played for a long time with arcade sticks (I started with the DreamCast one 😉) but I started to have arthresis in the wrists, especially the left one. Then I converted my Hori RAP 4 to an "hitbox" by replacing the metal panel. I also added a SOCD cleaner. Since about 3 years now I can can play again without pain. A real releaf. I mostly play at Tekken 7. I think I play better but I was able to train a lot more too so in some way it helped me but the best controller will never replace a good player imo. I don't have native PS5 fighting games yet but my Hori RAP4 worked on PS5 native beta of KOF 15 and PS5 DNF the duel Beta as well. As an "official" PS controller with touch pad it has to work like Sony mentionned in the PS blog 2 years ago (other official PS4 peripherals like wheels works too)
Currently playing my fighting games(and rhythm games) on a Gamo2 k28. Keyboard style layout with 28 buttons that can be bound however I want, and built in SOCD cleaning. Unfortunately not PS5 compatible as far as I know, but I play mainly on PC anyways. I was looking for a good keyboard for rhythm games and found this instead. I liked the Idea of being able to play most of my favorite games on one controller, even though it is not optimized for most PC rhythm games. If I ever am able to go to an in person FGC event I will definitely be using this as it is probably comparable in size to a snackbox, and is definitely far more portable than my old Mayflash arcade stick.
I have a Junkfood Arcade Snackbox Hitbox style controller, mostly for the reason that I wanted to build it on my own. Great thing, I love the texture, the weight, and the form factor. And yes, some inputs get easier, some get harder, but if you are used to typing a lot, they are very easy to handle. So for those where a game loss is also a financial loss as well, yes, I can see the advantage. For most people who do not *want* to play on a game pad, I'd say the "classical" arcade stick is still the best choice; most people do not type so much. And some people even have more physiological problems then with traditional sticks. But if you like it more - be my guest, I play on both.
I understand the want to switch, but at the same time its still a learning curve, and honestly most of the shortcuts or cheats I've seen people complain about are exclusive to Street fighter V, And you can do the same or similar cheats with pad using a combo of d-pad and analog stick, granted some pads are easier than others.
I have played with pad and arcade stick for over 15+ years. I also played a game on pc called GunzTheDuel and its a constant space bar to jump type of game. I ordered a version of hitbox on ebay and It was hard to get use to but due to the comfort ability and quickness on input speed I have seen improvement fast. Levers are going to become obsolete for competitive play in the future. For a reference for what people to expect Your 75% skill potential will come quicker then you think but that last 25% will be a longer road then you hoped for. Finally can be confident enough to say holy smokes this was worth the switch. Every time I play with my buds online they call me a cheatboxer and they get bodied it's great would recommend ( if you don't might to practice something new that will make you worse at first but better at the end run)
I got into fighting games almost half a year ago now and I've been just using a standard controller and its been mostly fine I've developed muscle memory and stuff, but one thing I noticed is my thumb would often twitch just enough to move my dpad out of down back and I'd get caught by stray lows I really shouldn't be. Because of this I decided to look into getting a leverless controller, but as I'm in the UK and on a budget my options were fairly limited, I essentially found 4 options I considered reasonable. Importing a snackbox from the US and just sucking up the high shipping time and costs, ordering from furin arcade as mentioned in the video as they do normal shipping to the UK (the most expensive option I found though), building one myself but I wanted a normal case I didn't want to be building a controller out of an amazon parcel box or something and at that point the price was mostly on par with other options. And the option I went with, okiboard (similar to MPress for you americans) while it has yet to arrive, it has all I wanted from the controllers I was looking for, I will update this comment with my thoughts once it arrives.
You can also just use current sticks for Tekken if you go into the settings to remap 4 of the fight stick buttons to the DPAD and then you can set your stick to the left Analog stick setting and you will have two ways of executing moves. You're welcome :P (If your stick doesn't support mapping you can actually go into the accessibility setting on PS4/PS5 to change the buttons if you like)
I play with keyboard and the space bar is my up key, as a new age FGC player sticks just feel too unprecicse, and hitting optimal combos feels so much easier on it
I realized how viable keyboard is for fighting games through the hitbox controversy. It's just a bunch of buttons! I'm not good, but I'm more consistent with my inputs than I was with pad, and I already have it unlike a fight stick, so it's a major win for my confidence in game.
I own a Victrix Pro Limited Edition M Bison and it's the best stick I've ever used it's very comfortable and weight. Also beautiful however I am planning on getting a leverless fightstick and I don't plan on buying a Victrix F12 because there's no need of having a big stick like that when there's not a lever built it. So I think a leverless Victrix (FS 12) is not the best choice I may get the Snack Box
I agree with Proxi (the youtuber) He was saying for people to try keyboards out when getting to fighting games since most people have a PC and use keyboards normally. It's a bit of a learning curve but It should work similar to a hit box. And then if you like the style, you can invest in a nicer controller like a hitbox. It helped me get alot better at fighting games! (Relatively from where I started at least)
I’ve messed around with using a keyboard setting up roms and what not when too lazy to plug-in a controller, it’s interesting I did kind of find them comfy for fighting games but never really played more than a few minutes on them. Never imagined it would turn into a thing.
Button box is a better name than leverless controller because it better describes what the controller has, instead of what it lacks. While pad has some advantages thanks to having more buttons and better access to buttons in some ways, when it comes to pure speed for basic movement, button box is faster than pad. I can see some situations where pad might be better, but generally speaking, button box is the best. As for fightsticks, they are simply obsolete.
Love your content man! I'm using a form of box with mechanical ASWD for movement with traditional arcade buttons on the right, but I've been convinced to look into a Furin lol. What's the weight like on yours? Mine is made of metal and has the memory foam, which I really like because both those things keep it in place.
It's weird because I only play on my PC and tried playing on a regular console controller but it felt very sloppy (both stick and dpad). I switched to keyboard almost immediately and it felt so much easier. And keyboard is basically the same as a hitbox, more or less. This was way before everyone started raving about them. Never tried an arcade stick. I imagine they are great but still think it would be more sloppy than my wasd keys. I also have a lot of exerience with first person shooters and first person games in general so my muscle memory for those fingers and those keys probably helped me a bit.
Where did you get your hitbox might get one cause it's a bit easier on my hands and it won't wear out my regular old playstation controllers d pad EDIT: nevermind the furin definitely seems more interesting definitely gonna try to get one
Coming to fighting games? My friend. its already here.
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I'm going to go ahead and spend some meter on a raw EX comment before watching, which is a classic for a reason. I'm deep into the DIY controllers scene (this year, I designed and built my own custom metal silent leverless controller). A worrying trend with consoles is that with each new generation, the console manufacturers are making it harder and harder to use custom or unlicensed controllers. And companies like Brook, who provide an alternative, are themselves subject to the whims of Sony and Microsoft. I already see loads of people struggling to get their Brook UP5 to actually work on PS5. The upshot of this is that I think that unless the fgc can start moving to PC in earnest, controller innovation is going to be hamstrung. Right now, the list of officially-licensed PS5 leverless controllers is not very long, and some of those options are vastly more expensive than what is possible with DIY. So while leverless may well be the hypothetical future for many, it will be too inaccessible to really make a difference. I think that controller innovation is good for the scene, and to that end I really hope to see more tournaments do what Defend the North recently did: run on PC, the land of the free, where anyone can cobble together a comfortable controller using a $5 Raspberry Pi Pico, a fistful of buttons, and a sturdy shoebox.
To me, shortcuts are a necessary evil. Been learning hitbox and have noticed that the reduced input leniency of older sf games overall reduces the usefulness of shortcuts. Not remove them entirely, but it's significant. I thought this would be a good solution, more precise controllers should need more precise motions right? But charge inputs sidestep that entirely and charge chars would keep every benefit that motion chars lose. It's a weird future we're in but devs will have to think more and more about how to balance different motions/inputs against socd shortcuts.
Not long turned 38 and the idea of a controller being easier on the wrist is definitely an inviting one. Only thing is I won a hitbox and have a ps5 and play ggst, guess I gotta fight through the pain lol
I was looking at getting a hitbox or one of the types for fighting games. But settled for a keyboard cause of other games including fighting. But if i didnt need a new gaming keyboard I would easily pick one of these up.
So. Hotboxes are more ergonomic right? That's one of the biggest reasons I went to an arcade stick over a pad, since a few years back, I had problems with my right thumb. Will a hitbox make sure that my wrists aren't going to weep?
Ok, I am so glad I watched this video. I've been thinking about trying out a leverless controller, and was thinking about the Hitbox, but if it doesn't currently work with PS5 games, that's a no go for me. I love my Victrix fightstick, but with it had the noir layout, but it does have the best ergonomics. How long did it take you to get used to using leverless? That's one thing I'm curious about. Again, thanks for the vid, very informative
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So yeah with the coming of the next generation of Fighters in stuff like SF6, Tekken 8 and all that, new games drive new controller sales, especially after such said controllers are becoming more and more visible in high level tournaments and general play and thats why we are talking about them today! I guess to note this is in no way a "sponsored" vid, I paid for each controller featured with my own money thank you very much lol, just showing you the options out there, so watch the vid and let me know what ya think!
I'm going to build my own, since I want more control over customizing my first custom build all button controller.
Since the pre-made ones doesn't seem to have that much flexibility.
Though prove me wrong. :)
How does grapplers work on Hitbox?
@@matthewsmith1779 same as you would expect, but (to me anyways) the 720 motion is quite difficult.
Does The victrix work on ps5 ?
Fightbox B1 diy version is coming in the mail. Jlf sanwa user since 2017
Time to get on the train!
Just to note, the Evo champ of ggst used a pad same with the runner up. And idom who came second in sfv used a pad but kowano the sfv champ used a box.
also to note idom almost clean swept him but fell apart at the reset. Pad is close to hitbox in terms of tierlist people go off of.
@Hiyooma yea stick is worst then both said nobody ever 🤡
I have quite the growing collection of leverless controllers now and I do wanna say specifically for the Furin FRS, not only is the form factor good/layout/customization options fantastic, before making this video I reached out to a bunch of the leverless style controller makers with some questions, and frankly I got straight up up ignored by everyone except for the gentleman behind the Furin FRS, which is the exact reason I wound up buying that controller. Dudes a good guy who makes a quality product.
Thanks for your awesome review on this I'll definitely be trying to reach out to this guy because I'm highly interested in making the switch over
Nothing is more specialty, and satisfying, than building your own fighting game controller.
Unrelated but first thing first rip to the legendary Kevin Conroy aka the Batman 😔
its unfortunate for sure, he's always the voice of batman to me
Damn right a legend has fallen
Cancer has taken way too many legends. May Kevin rest in peace.
This is the first I’ve heard of that, bummer.
That's a big loss, and only 66 years old. May he rest in peace
Been playing Hitbox for like 2 years, it's so nice feeling.
Fairly certain you can do SOCD on a keyboard. It was working when I was playing the Xrd rollback beta on keyboard.
There really need to be more button boxes that are compatible with PS5.
Brook released a upgrade chip for their fighting boards to allow it comparability with ps5
I just hope Arcade Sticks dont dissappear. I played fighting games with all 3 main options and stick is by far my favorite one. There is just nothing that compares to the feel of the stick for me
Pause. Jk Man.
That’s what she said !
Yeah I'm thinking the same. Sticks are just so fun
No it won't. It evolve to be the cross-up :D
They definitely won't be as mainstream (specially bcs of the price) now a days casual players mainly play on pad or keyboard,
The directional precision is my top feature of leverless. My inputs became 10x cleaner after picking up leverless from pad.
Controller players discovering the normal perks from keyboards be like
It does look more ergonomic, pretty and minimalistic, though. I like it.
My Hitbox works on the PS5 because since this video was released and I have a Brook Universal Fighting Board, I also installed the UFB-UP5 daughter board which forces full PS5 compatibility for the Brook Universal Fighting Board, and the Brook PS4 + Audio PCB. Also, there was a recent release of the Brook Wingman FGC which causes most WIRED controllers and arcade sticks to work with the PlayStation 5. Very soon [if it hasn't happened already...,] Brook will be releasing the Brook Universal Fighting Board Fusion, which is PlayStation 5 compatible for fighting games.
Furin FRS user here. Was one of the first customers to pre-order one. I also have The OG Hitbox, Snackbox and Okiboard but for me the Furin is easily my best leverless controller of the bunch!
Necro comment but hey. I’m on the fence which hitbox style controller I should buy and I really don’t like the super tiny ones. That leaves Okiboard and Furin for me. Why do you like Furin the most? It looks amazing.
@@DutchDeathGod Okibord is great but it has one problem. It is not customisable. It is locked with 24mm buttons for the directionals and 30mm for the action buttons. I prefer 24mm as the action buttons personally.
Furin on the other hand you can customize it so that you can have either 24mm or 30mm as the directional/action buttons. Not only that you can customize it so the directional button can be in hitbox style or WASD style. with WASD you can keyboard buttons or 24mm,
My Furin is a slanted mixbox, WASD directional keyboard buttons with 24mm action buttons plus a single 30mm up button.
I hope this helps.
@@rg1medion it did. Tyvm for your reply!
If you're having problems with wrist and hand pain during extended play sessions, try sticking a keyboard wrist rest to your controller with double sided tape. Did wonders for me. Preferably choose one with a hard bottom for better adhesion
Well not to fully spoil a future video, but someone did make a leverless controller specifically with wrist and hand pain in mind. Its uhhhh a very crazy looking device to say the least and it deserves its own video which is why it wasnt in this one.
@@rooflemonger Neat! I made my controller out of hardwood and built the wrist rest in to it, so I'm looking forward to seeing what other ergonomic options are out there that I might be able to integrate.
@@rooflemonger are you talking about the one that hangs over the shoulders?
I just ordered my first hitbox. I never played on a stick, I’ve always been a pad player but I’m looking forward to learning it.
How has it been?
@@TheRed5815 it’s been good. Difficult at first with motion inputs. The quarter circles are harder to do compared to controller and stick. The inputs are cleaner and movement is faster. There are pros and cons. I recommend it over stick though.
You've been itching to talk about that Furin, haven't you? Lol, I don't blame you. Looks amazing!
I use an Eternal Rival S-Rank leverless myself. It's light, form factor is simple but clean, and I have access to all my buttons right there on the face, both attack and aux buttons. Suits me just fine.
I built my first fight stick quite a while ago (shoutouts to AFS cases, they rock). Tried a lever, but it made my wrist hurt and I was having a hell of a time adjusting to it.
Then I tried a Hitbox layout and it worked perfectly for me. For me, it’s not a matter of how easy the inputs are, so much as the sheer comfort. I also like charge characters like May from Guilty Gear, and those sorts of motions just feel so natural with a stickless layout. Only problem is the half circle motions I have to use for some moves.
How does the s SOCD cleaning work on your device? If it's L+R=N, just go back, back+down, back+down+towards, down+ towards, towards for a half circle towards. Plink the buttons down then negative edge them off in the same direction and you'll never mess it up.
I've had my hitbox since 2019 and I'm completely in love with it
Thanks for the info, I’ve been pondering trying to get one, but I’ve been putting it off since I could also use a new TV.
get both imo
When BBTAG got rollback netcode I tried to practice some combos but kept noticing I would drop 236 movement. I went into practice mode and just did 236s over and over and noticed, doing the same movement, I would get a successful 236 movement roughly 3/10 of the time.
I decided I would buy a fight stick and upon research I stumbled upon HitBOX. I grew up playing games on both consoles and PC so the idea of a purely digital controller intrigued me. I bought the controller, went into practice mode, and once I got used to the controls I never dropped another input. Every "miss input" was now my own mistake and that helped me get better and more consistent.
Honestly it's hard going back.
I'm aware of the unfair stuff it can do and purposely don't do those things, I just use it because it's the most accurate for me.
Bought my first arcade stick . Was stuck between the all button and arcade stick one . The way I see it the all button one is a little less fun to play on but can be more competitive in matches . Arcade stick way more fun but not as competitive vs a player with the all button layout . 🤷🏽♂️
A thing that's curious about the whole SOCD and input reader talk is that I find, in particular, Guilty Gear Strive's reader to be quite strict. Especially as someone who's got their first ever stick like three months ago. Still struggling with botching my Busters and Giganters because I didn't QUITE go all the way to Back.
With various DPs, it's also less forgiving if you go from Forward, to Down back to full Forward, rather than down-forward.
It's still fun to be on stick, quite comfortable to play. Am considering a hitbox style at some point BUT my legacy as a keyboard player is a double-edged sword there. Always had directions on the right hand and having tried out mapping similar layouts to the keyboard, I was struggling with the left so I'd want a "lefty" hitbox which is less common (thought it does look like I can reverse the top panel of one of the Acrycade models).
We'll see what the future holds =3
Guilty Gear def a lot stricter on the inputs when it comes to hitbox use for sure, lots of tricks that work in SF will not work in Strive for example.
I switched mainly to save my wrist from getting destroyed. If you can type on a keyboard, you can play on a leverless controller.
Mines on the way!
great video 👍 i don't know if i'm ready to make the change to leverless from normal arcade sticks just yet but i am a little more interested now.
The Razor Kitsune is going to be an interesting loverless fighstick. Its another official one for Playstation, but the buttons are the linear switches like the Furin FRS.
I was really interested in the Victrix FS12 but you've completely sold me on the Furin FRS tbh
It's so funny 'cos a year ago, I was saying to myself that I would never touch a controller like this, not when I already have a pad or an arcade stick. But since last Christmas, I did a complete U-turn because, as you said, the stick is just too physically laborious for extended sessions. I also started to find it imprecise. I now use the Razer Kitsune for fighting games exclusively. Now that I have experienced leverless first-hand, I can't go back to pad or stick. It just feels so good! I love the look of the original Hitbox and the Victrix, but they are both far too big to store in my living room.
What I would like to see with things like these types of controllers is the inclusion of an arcade stick above the Dpad buttons, of course you would need to have a switch to turn off the Dpad buttons and switch to the arcade stick and so but that would be cool to see, there probably are some sticks out there now that are exactly like that.
I think having it above would be a bad idea, you''d either have to have it unaturally high or would need to lower the movment buttons unaturally low, neither of which is good for posture. However there are stick types with fast detachable levers, so you could have your stick just below the buttons (where a stick would usually go) and just put it on when you want to use it, take it off when you don't
i started getting in fighting games recently, I started with a hitbox. im having an easier time and a lot more fun than i did with a stick tbh.
it reminds me of playing piano in a way
I love my HitBox. It's helped my wrists and hands so much and now that I'm accustomed to it, games are starting to feel more natural. Still can't 360 on it, but I couldn't 360 on pad, either, so
are quarter circles easy? i jus bought one
Bought a hit box about a year ago and love it. But if you’re ass at the game the controller isn’t going to really change anything. A better player with a pad or stick is still going to wreck you.
Personally...I feel like Hitboxes are in the same lane as stick and pad...another controller option with a drawback.
Pretty sure hitbox will be great with charge characters...but stuff like half or full circle or pretzel inputs will be more difficult.
I don't know...some people call it a "cheatbox", but I don't see a big advantage to using hitbox over any other controller.
Then again...Im a simple man who uses pad and that is already complex enough for me.
Pretzel motions are actually super easy, alongside most half-circle motions. Only ones that are unconventional is a 862 or 842 and the like
Another option is the ODIN mod. It replaces a lever stick with a wasd key setup. I got one and played around with it for a bit, takes a couple seconds to install and all you need is a screwdriver if that's how you open up your stick.
Very intersting video Rooflemonger. So as I am an Xbox player and living in the UK I think the availibility of hitbox style controllers will be limited, but I will certainly have to look around for one. If it makes 720 easier then I am in.
Well the Furin FRS maker is based in the UK, and one of the boards it offers works on all xbox systems. So thats basically the option right there lol
@@rooflemonger Blimey that is good to know, will certainly check it out and see if it is worth looking into.
@@Riz_ "blimey"? Amazing brit response to that news. 😊 Let me know if you have any questions.
I like the concept of hitboxes, but my hands always cramp up when playing them. I type often and enough that I figured it wouldn't be an issue, but for whatever reason, probably something to do with how I rest my hands, I end up in pain every time. It all works out though since I can go hours playing on stick without any wrist pain whatsoever. I just dread the day when carpal tunnel finally sets in. If that ever happens, hopefully there will be some more ergonomic hitbox solutions on the market.
Just play on keyboard. There are no "Hitbox exclusive" techs. All of them are fully available on keyboard. If anyone thinks Hitbox is cheatbox, ask whether the game they play is on PC, it likely is, you can't deny people playing on keyboard, because of that Hitbox is not cheating. Also new players in the scene who are Hitbox, because of Hitboxes they even can participate, imagine coming to Evo with your arcade stick 3000 EX not realizing PS5 only supports dance pads.
The Hit Box craze overall is a good thing. It'll help as fighting games become more PC based, which opens up more products to create and more sponsors. The taboo part of hit boxes mostly comes from how unregulated the inputs are and fighting game developers just haven't caught up with balancing their inputs compared to standard pad or lever devices. When that all becomes more regulated it should be less of a "cheat box"
actually the most interesting thing about this is that the HITBOX style controller is not the OG default, arcades somehow cameup with the idea of a leaver for inputing movement instead of just adding 4 more buttons. IDK its just funny to think about
I builded a leverless controller myself a few months ago and I must say even if I was sceptical at first, if there will be a noticable different for an ...well FG enjoyer.... I must say the different is extreme.
First of all the wrist issue you stated, I can 100% confirm that - it is so much better for longer sessions.
But what me got hooked on the controller was how precise the motion inputs can get with that.
Yeah I understand with enough practice you can also be extremely precise with a lever or pad, BUT never on the level a hitbox style controller will be.
The only thing it felt 'bad' was the fact, that some inputs can be done in a way you are not be able on the other controller types....so I can absolutely understand that some in the FGC call it a cheatbox.
What about 720s and 360s what about legacy games like cvs2 with snk style inputs? Yea cheat box is you say yea righ...
I recently bought a Snackbox Micro because I've always wanted to learn the hitbox layout. I gotta say it is more comfortable when you get used to it. For anyone curious in one, the big thing is to loosen up and just let your fingers do the work. You'll have to break a lot of old habits. Don't try to rest your palms, just let your hands hover over it
Been curious about trying one since I experimented a bit on keyboard when helping a friend who hadn't played any FGs before. Stuff like KOF really gets my wrist feeling SOMETHING (not pain, thankfully, but still something). And I think I'd probably enjoy it more than a stick for certain games, such as Tekken. Not sure which to get though, but a lot of the nicest looking options are rather pricey for me. So I've just been mulling over the options for a while.
I've had it for almost 9 months and i mainly play on PC
Leo made easy the controller
Single-handedly took me to floor 10
TYSM ROOFLEMONGER!
I use a hitbox to play dbfz, but there is a double edge sword with it's accuracy:
Sometimes I input 8 then 1ms later the 6 to do a 9, but the game understands that I want to do a 8 instead. In dbfz at least, you have to input the opposite: 6 then 8 in the same milliseconds. And with the pinky it becomes hard if you don't practice a lot.
A lot less intuitive to move around than a joystick for sure
Nice explanation, I might get one for playing Zato. It would be cool to see a smash box break down as well. Keep up the good work ✌️
i play on pc - keyboard so i think this is similar to that but those tips were quite interesting, never really tried them
As far as leverless controllers I have the original Hitbox for PS4 then Hitbox Cross Up then now the Vitrix Pro FS-12 for the PS5. Love them!
I use the mixbox because Im a pc gamer and really like the wasd/ arrow keys layout
I’m thinking of getting one because it just seems extremely efficient. I always had problems with the circle regular pad since I have small hands
thanks for showing a video of your hitbox demonstrating what you're talking about for FG noobs like me
the victrix is beatiful, the purple was a nice choice 👌
I switched to a hitbox because I wanted to fix the fact that a lot of the time, I was adding an upward diagonal input while trying to do moves on a pad and when I tried using a stick, my shoulder got incredibly sore...and I felt WAY slower on the stick with Nu-13 in blazblue. Leverless was the best of all worlds for me.
I honestly haven't looked back since I started using one.
I got the Razer Kitsune cuz my left hand was hurting for 3 weeks playing on the PS5 controller. Even tho I had to learn how to play with this controller and feel like a beginner I enjoy it. Been playing almost 2 weeks and I'm getting there. Can do more combos and execute moved better but still have to get use to moving with buttons and strengthening my left ring finger.
I will forever be using joysticks because it's the most interactive and fun to use and i grew up in Japan with arcades everywhere.
Hardware SOCD should be a thing in the past for modern games. All raw inputs could be managed within the game or application. So it doesn’t matter what controller you use, the game will dictate the execution with those inputs.
For me the perfect controller would be a split controller where the left hand has a dpad and the right hand has full size arcade buttons.
I'm probably one of many people who was searching perfect controller for fighting games. Tried the stick,regular controllers like xbox one or ps4. But ( fairly recently) discovered (and it's probably not a popular opinion) PC keyboard. I had mechanical keyboard in the past ,now I have Logitech G213 and it's great. Also works with consoles. Keyboards also great playing platform fighters. Downside to that is that you don't have much space for your hand to rest and second is all buttons are clumped up so you can hit accidentally hit unwanted button and in competetive matches is really important. Final thing is depending which keyboard you use, the button size. We have different size of hands,so it's different for everyone using different controllers. Final thoughts are use what you are comfortable using. But what comes to long sessions I noticed that I can't do the same motions easily like on arcade stick,but movement with a controller is much better (double dash).
I think what comes to hitboxes-they are great, I think the main downside like with premium arcade sticks is the price,so not every casual gamer want to spend this amount of money.
I'll keep to the dpads, thanks XD
Thx. Thats very helpful Sir😁👍
Ordered one last month, comes in this week. Im so excited!
The one I'm looking for is like keyboard arrow keys on the right and round buttons on the left
For many reasons. I cannot crouch shoryuken. I get it sometimes and not all the time. But there was a shortcut to it. It is as you said. Forward, down, down forward. Just those 3. I also heard that sometimes doing the motion will come with other stuff not intended. So I wrote that down.
Nice review Roofle. Going to look into hitbox style controllers myself, starting with the Furin FRS :)
me still waiting for the MixBox style controllers from junkfoodarcades, I know it wouldnt really happen, but I would just love it
I got my snackboc micro. Few weeks ago and I love it is hard. But I love it im gonna get some art for my snack box micro
Hi @rooflemonger, many thanks for this high quality video (as usual 😉) I played for a long time with arcade sticks (I started with the DreamCast one 😉) but I started to have arthresis in the wrists, especially the left one. Then I converted my Hori RAP 4 to an "hitbox" by replacing the metal panel. I also added a SOCD cleaner. Since about 3 years now I can can play again without pain. A real releaf. I mostly play at Tekken 7. I think I play better but I was able to train a lot more too so in some way it helped me but the best controller will never replace a good player imo.
I don't have native PS5 fighting games yet but my Hori RAP4 worked on PS5 native beta of KOF 15 and PS5 DNF the duel Beta as well. As an "official" PS controller with touch pad it has to work like Sony mentionned in the PS blog 2 years ago (other official PS4 peripherals like wheels works too)
Currently playing my fighting games(and rhythm games) on a Gamo2 k28. Keyboard style layout with 28 buttons that can be bound however I want, and built in SOCD cleaning. Unfortunately not PS5 compatible as far as I know, but I play mainly on PC anyways. I was looking for a good keyboard for rhythm games and found this instead. I liked the Idea of being able to play most of my favorite games on one controller, even though it is not optimized for most PC rhythm games. If I ever am able to go to an in person FGC event I will definitely be using this as it is probably comparable in size to a snackbox, and is definitely far more portable than my old Mayflash arcade stick.
Started using one for MKX…… never looked back.
I’ve been using a hit box for a bit but I go back and forth with a regular stick because 720s and half circles are so hard to do for me
half circles are fine for me, but 720's are an MFer for me on leverless controller lol. Need a lot more practice there.
@@rooflemonger my brother does the slide 720s are those possible with the microswitches instead of sanwa style buttons?
I have a Junkfood Arcade Snackbox Hitbox style controller, mostly for the reason that I wanted to build it on my own. Great thing, I love the texture, the weight, and the form factor. And yes, some inputs get easier, some get harder, but if you are used to typing a lot, they are very easy to handle. So for those where a game loss is also a financial loss as well, yes, I can see the advantage.
For most people who do not *want* to play on a game pad, I'd say the "classical" arcade stick is still the best choice; most people do not type so much. And some people even have more physiological problems then with traditional sticks. But if you like it more - be my guest, I play on both.
No cheatbox for me, sticking to traditional joystick.
I understand the want to switch, but at the same time its still a learning curve, and honestly most of the shortcuts or cheats I've seen people complain about are exclusive to Street fighter V, And you can do the same or similar cheats with pad using a combo of d-pad and analog stick, granted some pads are easier than others.
I have played with pad and arcade stick for over 15+ years. I also played a game on pc called
GunzTheDuel and its a constant space bar to jump type of game. I ordered a version of hitbox on ebay
and It was hard to get use to but due to the comfort ability and quickness on input speed I have seen improvement fast.
Levers are going to become obsolete for competitive play in the future.
For a reference for what people to expect Your 75% skill potential will come quicker then you think
but that last 25% will be a longer road then you hoped for. Finally can be confident enough to say holy
smokes this was worth the switch. Every time I play with my buds online they call me a cheatboxer and
they get bodied it's great would recommend ( if you don't might to practice something new that will make you worse at first but better at the end run)
I got into fighting games almost half a year ago now and I've been just using a standard controller and its been mostly fine I've developed muscle memory and stuff, but one thing I noticed is my thumb would often twitch just enough to move my dpad out of down back and I'd get caught by stray lows I really shouldn't be. Because of this I decided to look into getting a leverless controller, but as I'm in the UK and on a budget my options were fairly limited, I essentially found 4 options I considered reasonable. Importing a snackbox from the US and just sucking up the high shipping time and costs, ordering from furin arcade as mentioned in the video as they do normal shipping to the UK (the most expensive option I found though), building one myself but I wanted a normal case I didn't want to be building a controller out of an amazon parcel box or something and at that point the price was mostly on par with other options. And the option I went with, okiboard (similar to MPress for you americans) while it has yet to arrive, it has all I wanted from the controllers I was looking for, I will update this comment with my thoughts once it arrives.
how is it?
Are fighting game players finally discovering keyboards? Wow!
You can also just use current sticks for Tekken if you go into the settings to remap 4 of the fight stick buttons to the DPAD and then you can set your stick to the left Analog stick setting and you will have two ways of executing moves. You're welcome :P
(If your stick doesn't support mapping you can actually go into the accessibility setting on PS4/PS5 to change the buttons if you like)
i love my leverless cotroller
Hit box works with the switch its pretty dope
I play with keyboard and the space bar is my up key, as a new age FGC player sticks just feel too unprecicse, and hitting optimal combos feels so much easier on it
i got a custom eternal rival. fightstick and hitbox together. it's good for everything. not ready to let my stick go completely.
I realized how viable keyboard is for fighting games through the hitbox controversy. It's just a bunch of buttons! I'm not good, but I'm more consistent with my inputs than I was with pad, and I already have it unlike a fight stick, so it's a major win for my confidence in game.
I own a Victrix Pro Limited Edition M Bison and it's the best stick I've ever used it's very comfortable and weight. Also beautiful however I am planning on getting a leverless fightstick and I don't plan on buying a Victrix F12 because there's no need of having a big stick like that when there's not a lever built it. So I think a leverless Victrix (FS 12) is not the best choice I may get the Snack Box
I've been thinking about switching to a hit box for about two years now but it feels like I would have to relearn how to play which I am not ready for
I agree with Proxi (the youtuber) He was saying for people to try keyboards out when getting to fighting games since most people have a PC and use keyboards normally. It's a bit of a learning curve but It should work similar to a hit box. And then if you like the style, you can invest in a nicer controller like a hitbox. It helped me get alot better at fighting games! (Relatively from where I started at least)
I’ve messed around with using a keyboard setting up roms and what not when too lazy to plug-in a controller, it’s interesting I did kind of find them comfy for fighting games but never really played more than a few minutes on them. Never imagined it would turn into a thing.
Button box is a better name than leverless controller because it better describes what the controller has, instead of what it lacks. While pad has some advantages thanks to having more buttons and better access to buttons in some ways, when it comes to pure speed for basic movement, button box is faster than pad. I can see some situations where pad might be better, but generally speaking, button box is the best. As for fightsticks, they are simply obsolete.
Love your content man! I'm using a form of box with mechanical ASWD for movement with traditional arcade buttons on the right, but I've been convinced to look into a Furin lol. What's the weight like on yours? Mine is made of metal and has the memory foam, which I really like because both those things keep it in place.
the furin is very very light, there's a piece of metal inside just to help weigh it down a bit.
It's weird because I only play on my PC and tried playing on a regular console controller but it felt very sloppy (both stick and dpad). I switched to keyboard almost immediately and it felt so much easier. And keyboard is basically the same as a hitbox, more or less. This was way before everyone started raving about them.
Never tried an arcade stick. I imagine they are great but still think it would be more sloppy than my wasd keys. I also have a lot of exerience with first person shooters and first person games in general so my muscle memory for those fingers and those keys probably helped me a bit.
Where did you get your hitbox might get one cause it's a bit easier on my hands and it won't wear out my regular old playstation controllers d pad
EDIT: nevermind the furin definitely seems more interesting definitely gonna try to get one
Yeah but I play for the arcade days nostalgia so I'm never moving from levers.
It seems so weird with "up" being at the bottom of the controller It almost becomes like a jump button.
Coming to fighting games? My friend. its already here.
I'm going to go ahead and spend some meter on a raw EX comment before watching, which is a classic for a reason. I'm deep into the DIY controllers scene (this year, I designed and built my own custom metal silent leverless controller). A worrying trend with consoles is that with each new generation, the console manufacturers are making it harder and harder to use custom or unlicensed controllers. And companies like Brook, who provide an alternative, are themselves subject to the whims of Sony and Microsoft. I already see loads of people struggling to get their Brook UP5 to actually work on PS5. The upshot of this is that I think that unless the fgc can start moving to PC in earnest, controller innovation is going to be hamstrung. Right now, the list of officially-licensed PS5 leverless controllers is not very long, and some of those options are vastly more expensive than what is possible with DIY. So while leverless may well be the hypothetical future for many, it will be too inaccessible to really make a difference. I think that controller innovation is good for the scene, and to that end I really hope to see more tournaments do what Defend the North recently did: run on PC, the land of the free, where anyone can cobble together a comfortable controller using a $5 Raspberry Pi Pico, a fistful of buttons, and a sturdy shoebox.
To me, shortcuts are a necessary evil.
Been learning hitbox and have noticed that the reduced input leniency of older sf games overall reduces the usefulness of shortcuts. Not remove them entirely, but it's significant.
I thought this would be a good solution, more precise controllers should need more precise motions right? But charge inputs sidestep that entirely and charge chars would keep every benefit that motion chars lose.
It's a weird future we're in but devs will have to think more and more about how to balance different motions/inputs against socd shortcuts.
I had been saying this would happen back in 2011-2012. It's good to see things change and evolve over time.
Not long turned 38 and the idea of a controller being easier on the wrist is definitely an inviting one.
Only thing is I won a hitbox and have a ps5 and play ggst, guess I gotta fight through the pain lol
I was looking at getting a hitbox or one of the types for fighting games. But settled for a keyboard cause of other games including fighting.
But if i didnt need a new gaming keyboard I would easily pick one of these up.
So. Hotboxes are more ergonomic right? That's one of the biggest reasons I went to an arcade stick over a pad, since a few years back, I had problems with my right thumb.
Will a hitbox make sure that my wrists aren't going to weep?
Ok, I am so glad I watched this video. I've been thinking about trying out a leverless controller, and was thinking about the Hitbox, but if it doesn't currently work with PS5 games, that's a no go for me. I love my Victrix fightstick, but with it had the noir layout, but it does have the best ergonomics.
How long did it take you to get used to using leverless? That's one thing I'm curious about.
Again, thanks for the vid, very informative
still getting used to it. No game I wanna grind on right now until SF6 really so taking it easy for the moment.
I love my all button controller. For anyone in the UK interested in getting one, look up Oki-board. They are awesome!