One more factor to consider regarding the patch timing is the certification process. The patch may have been submitted for review in December, but can take a while to go through QA on every platform. And while it's being QA'd, they're already working on the next patch after it.
Exactly, it takes two weeks for Sony and MS to test a patch and this process is completely unavailable during Christmas Eve to New Years Day. So the earliest they would've been able to test it would be Jan 2nd or 3rd, and any bug detected during this process could delay the patch by another week. In which case, the earliest the patch could have released was Jan 16th. There's been worse patch releases than that (poor JeBailey), but I imagine the team weren't keen on giving the pros a relatively short notice for the first major of the year.
Still doesn't justify him coming out in the state that he did when they already had years of balancing experience with Tekken 7. You cannot suddenly make a character this strong on accident after so many years of development.
Oh yeah, I fully believe they knowingly made Leroy overpowered due to all of his hype and to boost up sales. There’s no way it was an accident. The only thing Bamco underestimated was the negative response to how overtuned he was.
Why did they release him like that in the first place. Having the context is nice. But it still looks like they released him broken on purpose to milk the cash at the cost of player’s enjoyment. Season 3 is where I lost almost all of my trust with the tekken team. The really questionable balancing decisions started with that season and they’ve only started to course correct with the patch for 8 in June.
The “Y’all need to sit the hell down” was extremely poorly timed, you can’t throw fire back when the entire community is WARNING you the character will be the only thing in the next tournament top 8
I think it's fascinating to see how bad of an impression Leroy left on the Tekken community that even in Tekken 8 where Leroy is no longer a balance breaking monster he is one of the least played characters in the game, despite all that initial hype about his design, even when he isn't a problem, people still don't want to play him anymore due to that legacy.
which, frankly, is sad! He's still fuckin cool aesthetically and has his unique mechanics and playstyle, he's just not... full of broken shit like half the cast. He has clear strengths and weaknesses.
He was also pretty weak on Tekken 8 launch. And even though he's received some pretty good buffs, people have already found homes in other characters. I think Chikurin still plays a little bit of Leroy in 8? He was also basically the only person still using Leroy to some extent in T7 after all the nerfs
It is the stigma, casuals still think leroy is broken despite all. Funny thing, I remember some time after the nerfs every leroy Id run into was incredibly toxic and for a good reason. If you checked their steam page it was just walls of bm sent by other players. Basically someone would pick up the chatacter and learn the game while being showered by insults. They just assumed it was normal in the community.
Hopefully Leroy becomes a lesson for Bamco about not making DLC characters too OP. T7 forever tainted his legacy and his popularity still haven't recovered.
Thank you Leon for gently informing me the big revelation that Marshall Law is actually British. Never would have known coz of his very convincing American Accent for a Chinese-British.
No way man, the game’s lore states that he has to compete in the tournament to pay for his son Forrest’s medical bills you can’t get more american than that 🦅🦅🦅
honestly just stopped by to say that I *really* like the thumbnail's rejection of algorithmic fuckery. no clickbait title, no boring and hella derivative layout, just an engaging title with an image that piques the viewer's curiosity. tasteful. classy. a gd breath of fresh air, frfr.
You might be blind or illiterate because the title is textbook clickbait. It feels you no woodcutting about the video, while using words like disaster which draw you in bevause for some reason people love learning about failure.
@@hteety You really don't seem to understand what clickbait is. Clickbait isn't just "enticing titles", it implies deception about the contents of the video. That title accurately describes the entire thesis of the video.
@@ProxyFox45tbf Jin has been consistently the strongest Mishima in the series with the best feats to boot, his first game had him killing the God of Fighting, next game he beats both his dad and grandpa after learning an entirely different martial art from what he was raised to know, next he beats his demon possessed great grandfather and the next one he one shots satan
Hold on, that throwaway line about Shadow Mewtwo releasing with literally solved gameplay, I need to know more. Has anyone made a video about that character out there? Please tell me if so
Shadow mewtwo came out with a loop that put you into infinite blockstun where you'd eventually shieldbreak or die from chip? iforget which.. from a ranged projectile that's a vertical pillar. They got fixed pretty quickly but like... you know. He was a boss character that they only later made playable so that's basically how it happened.
My first reaction was "Pokken mentioned???" Then "Shadow Mewtwo had an infinite?" And now "Wait, if I wanted to cheese the AI then I'd play Chandelure."
That crossed my mind too. But to be fair Leon may have meant in Tekken 7 specifically since Bruce and OG Raven weren't around. And still never were afterwards either.
Technically, Eddy Gordo is Afro-American too, but not NORTH-AMERICAN. The usage of America like a definition to USA make my south-american skin itchy sometimes
And this is why you dont automatically try to make excuses or fence hop for devs. they have used up all their excuses for decades now. They need to start learning from their mistakes. And honestly be held accountable for it.
@@XShinobixXx What people and the maker of the video doesn't get is that this isn't unintentional. They are using the SFV method of using OP DLC to permanently destroy the meta to make people rush to the next installment (6,7,8,...) because new installment = more balance = more money for devs. Leroy may be an accident but Fahkumram sure isn't. Not a coincidence the actual Thai born Muay Thai practitioner doesn't return yet Leroy does.
While I'm inclined to agree that Leroy's busted kit was an unfortunate misstep, just remember that this game charged you for frame data. The devs were absolutely greedy on this game!
On one hand, the practice of putting a game's ability to display it's frame data behind a paywall *is* silly. But the demographic of players that frame data is important to, should have had the season pass anyway, in which case you were effectively getting it for free. Also, Bamco already tried the goodwill route of 'free fanservice DLC' with Tag 2. The overwhelming majority of future T7 players didn't give Tag 2 a chance regardless. So there's that.
@@Wormopera the developers made the game sh17, brother. marketing only sold what they made. not saying the whole company isn't culpable as a whole structure, but saying the devs are innocent is honestly insane.
I'm assuming he meant African American as in a black guy from America. If not then Leon is just skipping over many other black characters in the game like many before him did when Leroy released
It gets more interesting, as Tekken 7 would continue to have very strong DLC characters, with Fahkumram, Kunimitsu, and Lidia all being considered top tier at some point after their release. Tekken 8 on the other hand, seems to have gone in a vastly different direction so far, with Eddy being considered by some pros to be among the worst in the game, and Lidia being solidly middle of the pack.
I absolutely prefer something like this. It shows you that they care less about baiting people into buying the DLC with an advantageous, powerful character, and more about adding interesting pieces for the game as a whole. We're getting a whole damn chapter in the story mode for free when Heihachi drops with the previous two DLCs starring heavily in it, so they're really putting care into the story through these additions now.
Fahkumram at launch was almost as bad as Leroy, that’s the funny thing. Clearly top 1 in hindsight, had numerous overtuned tools and he was even literally borked in some ways having wonky hurtboxes and a throw that was harder to break than other throws. And then by the end of the game, he ended up as one of the worst characters in the game.
Jeondding has been cooking with Eddy tho. I think Eddy was considered lower tier at higher levels in T7 as well. But yes, its much more preferable to have it like this, especially with you not being able to use the replay features against these DLC characters unless you own them. SF6 has also done this quite well, Season 1 introduced 2 of the hardest characters to play, and the rest are considered good enough.
One more thing I will add is that while Tekken 8's DLC characters haven't been a problem so far, I would not be surprised if at least one of them ends up being problematic at some point down the line. Tekken 7 did have some DLC characters earlier in its life who weren't competitively powerful on release but others... We'll obviously have to see how this plays out but considering that Tekken 8 is planned to have a very long life span and Bandai Namco's track record, I would be more surprised if the game ends up having no busted DLC characters.
@@bigbangbot-SuperSqank that can always happen, the point is that they react faster, unlike Tekken 7. And there's always the chance that a character seems strong but people just need to adapt, like DVJ in T8, or JP in SF6
4:50 BRO WHAT ? Bruce was the first african american in tekken all the way back in T2 and then Ravenqas added in T5 yes his nationality is unknown but the distinctly american accent and being based off wesley snipes gives it away 💀
I turned off the video when he did this because I was like lol wut? Everyone acting like every franchise was made yesterday. He didn’t even mention that the main selling point of Leroy is that I have always been disappointed that no one ever explored the Wu-Tang aesthetic in a fighting game.
Dragunovs qcf4 in T8 is the equivalent of Leroys d1+2 in T7. Literally a move that does everything and has no weaknesses. Throw it out whenever and it will probably work. Just crazy to think that the devs havent learned their lessons in T7.
Well it isn’t is it? It’s at least 4 frames slower (assuming the Drag player does a perfect qcf input, and you’ll see from replay input history that they don’t 99% of the time) and can only be used as a launcher once per round with massive combo scaling. It’s a good move regardless but has a very different metagame to what Leroy’s d1+2 did. It sounds like the actual equivalence you’re really making is you’re just tired of seeing a ‘meta character’ very frequently. That’s always gonna exist to an extent in future seasons of T8 and beyond.
I'm not disagreeing that Bamco's handling of the game was less than stellar at points, but it was also their continued support of it that saved the series.
@@richardsinclair7661 that's hilarious. To further nail the point home, T8 is an absolute shit show in so many ways. T9 will be a 2D game, calling it now.
Bruce can stay gone, Never thought he was cool in the older titles and fahkumram was just a direct upgrade in every way, Design, Feel, Balance not really obviously, He's more likely to come back than Bruce ever will be
@@justagamethroweryour feeling are also just that. Your feelings. Clearly a lot of people feel differently. Why do you speak as though your opinion is the only thing that matters?
I really appreciate the dimming of the white screencaptures to ease eyestrain. I am reminded each video that Leon's production for these is world class
We've seen this happpen before, even in smash ultimate. We seen them nerf pichu, peach and zss into the ground; meanwhile kazuya exists, and steve was left unpatched, steve can do shit no other character can, he literally can prevent you from grabbing the ledge by placing a block there unless your recovery move has a strong enough hitbox. He is smash ultimate's on-release Leroy and was left unpatched because minecraft = sells :/
when the majority of pro players are basically saying, “character is busted and if you want a chance to win then play this character” then the tournament organizers should ban the character… esp when the devs have said a week in advance, “yes the character is busted and we’re gonna patch it.” and if you ask me, this Leroy hate has carried over into Tekken 8. it’s so sad.
At that time there was also a ton of downplay and "it's still too soon to make conclusions". Tekken community is also very averse to character bans in tournaments. It literally took 6 Leroys in EVO JP's top 8 for a lot of people to concede that maybe this Leroy character is a problem.
And then everyone threatens to not come to the tournament while everyone else complains. This happens every time. It works only if the game is too small like HftF or the game is rendered genuinely unplayable like...actually, I can't remember any relevant game that isn't known kusoge where characters get banned properly.
This video was really well done, a great overview of T7's lowest moments, but I don't agree with you on how intentional were the balancing decisions regarding Leroy. I can agree that the patch timing was a product of circumstance and that the devs definitely didn't want the top 8 of the most important tournament filled with Leroys, but making the character busted was definitely part of their design. Bamco has a history of making overpowered dlc characters to increase sales, and you just need to look at T7's dlc list to understand it. Here's a quick list of the characters that were, at least at some point, considered broken out of all of tekken 7's dlcs: Geese, Marduk, Julia, Zafina, Leroy, Fahkumram, Kunimitsu and Lidia. That means that more than half of T7's dlcs were purposely made too strong. Hell, they even did this again in T8 with Eddy's release lol. I love tekken, it was the first fighting game that I fell in love with and it made it possible for me to develop the passion that I have for the genre today. But tekken devs are undeniably money hungry worms that, at least in the last years, have repeatedly shown that they don't give a single fuck about how happy players are with their vision of the game.
The 'making DLC characters broken on purpose to help them sell' is a pseudo-intellectual conspiracy theory as old as DLC in fighting games itself. Games from Capcom, Arcsys, NRS, SNK and others have all been through it prior. But the fact that you've only listed half of T7's DLC characters automatically has your theory fall apart. In my case, I played Armor King, who was also a DLC character in T7, yet overall worse off from his Tag 2 incarnation. While I do agree Bamco lost the plot with Leroy and Fahkumram especially, they also could've had many moves from their spiritual predecessors (Wang and Bruce respectively) that they thankfully didn't. Like the sound of Leroy with waning moon? Yeah, me neither. Even Julia, who I wouldn't say was on the same wavelength as those two in their prime in T7, she has a whole laundry list of fuckeries from prior Tekken games that easily could've been brought back in T7 if there was a 'conscious effort' to make her broken.
@@strykah92... So you're saying that having at least 50% of DLC characters S tier on release isn't enough to make it kind of a "rule"? Would you have preferred to have all DLCs in tekken be made broken? Would that suffice for you to accept that Bamco loves these predatory practices (or, at the very least, has no idea on how to balance their own game)? I've been an AK main for 80% of T7's life, and that definitely wasn't enough to make me forget how stupid most of the DLCs have been lol. Also, AK was a special case since he had most of his core moves "stolen" by King in T7. Him being considered weak-ish was mostly due to his lack of defining characteristics when compared to King. Sure he had a wavedash and his dark upper for whiff punishing, but what's the point of that when you're giving King one of AK's best whiff punishers (f2,1) anyway? What's the point of playing the character who's more poke heavy and neutral oriented when some of his best pokes (d3, for example) were inherited by King, who still had the better Oki, throws, rage drive and damage? I reeeeeally don't think that AK is a good example of how the DLC characters were balanced in tekken 7, especially since he's always been a fan favourite. As an alternative example, think of Heihachi's reveal in T8. Bamco definitely doesn't need to make him S tier, since everybody already knows and loves the character, but even if they were to release him as a B tier, it wouldn't make me forget about Eddy lol. Also, I can't stress enough that we're not talking about releasing a "good" character. We're talking about releasing meta defining characters that will be consistently seen in tournaments until they get nerfed, all of this while not allowing those who didn't buy the DLC to lab said characters. I just don't understand how you can shut your eyes in front of these facts and act like Bamco isn't constantly trying to fuck you in the ass, my brother
Not to downplay Mikio, he is without a doubt a cracked player, but Julia was also broken in her own right, not as egregious as Leroy of course, but Evo confirmed my suspicions that Julia was slept on.
Honestly I'm grateful for this disaster upon the Tekken meta because for the past few years before it happened Tekken fans were constantly treating fans of other games as if their games were inferior and poorly balanced baby games in comparison to Tekken
Oh shit, Leon is a fighting-game historical journalist now. I am certain his "Fear and Loathing" is fast approaching. Happy that you have found your niche! I remember in university (I studied History), we had to archive some website and explain why it would be worth archiving. I chose the Dustloop wiki and explained that it is impervious for media historians, as it gives us an understanding not just of the phenomenon, but also the culture around that phenomenon. I got an A for that. Even though I have no idea if the archive actually worked.
he gets a lot of facts about games that aren't GG xrd wrong to be considered a journalist. Like his KOF video about combo links or this very video about Leroy being the first african american Tekken character
@@kainewest6308 Actually, reporting on things they get wrong are what a journalist often does. Because he's a journalist, not a scientist. Hunter S. Thompson was considered a journalist. And he wrote about drug trips. The important part is getting people interested to delve deeper into the topic.
@@DrunkenCoward1that’s not wha the meant and journalists don’t often get things wrong. And they certainly don’t get things wrong that are practically self-evident.
@@funkrates4778 journalists don't often get things wrong??? Are you serious? They get shit wrong on purpose, dude. They're blatant liars for the most part
This was a really well made video about a topic I care about deeply. I've ranted about this stuff for hours to my girlfriend. I've always wanted to see a in depth video essay about Tekken 7 and what went wrong with it, thank you for making it.
If you want the viewer to understand what +13 damage to a combo means, maybe just telling us the HP value of some characters would be useful. I don’t know if 13 damage is 1/10 of a King’s HP, or 1/20, so the flat number doesn’t really mean anything. An increase from 64 to 77 supposedly means a lot, but you just saying that and showing the amount of interactions it takes for the game to be over doesn’t tell me how much of a difference that +13 makes for Leroy. If that makes sense, I’m also just a person who likes seeing all the number in fighting games.
I was bitching about him on day 1. First thing I did was take him into practice mode with frame data on, and I was like my god this is Tekken 6 Bob all over again. This move is dumb, this move is dumb, this move is dumb. Took him to Yaksa by the next day. Which was crazy because I'm a Lars main, and my Lars at the time was perpetually stuck in the ruler ranks.
Tekken 7 after Dec 2019 was nightmare as explained in this video but I didn't expect T8 to be worse than this... I'm not talking about balance issue with dragunov
Regarding the financial decision to release strong DLC characters... I will say, I've worked on two major live service games (LoL and Marvel Snap), and in both, designers explicitly want new characters/cards to be strong. Nobody wants to break the game, but they DO want the character to be competitive-relevant. For LoL, there's a sweetspot in the top 10-50-ish where the character is competitive-viable in both solo queue and esports, and Marvel Snap has pretty blatant power creep. Characters in that sweetspot generate a lot of positive marketing, engagement, as well as sales. With that said, LoL and Snap are able to identify and nerf problem characters much faster than fighting devs, for whatever reason. Also, as free-to-play games, the financial incentive is probably larger compared to a box + DLC revenue model of fighting games. I do appreciate you standing up for us developers though 😅
Something similar to the Mikio storyline in 2020 happened recently with EWC top 8 with Tekken 8. Yagami was the fan favourite Reina that took it back from 0-4 to beat Chanel. Also isn't Bruce and Master raven/Raven African-American? Leon isn't beating the fighting game secondary allegations
Oh my days I completely forgot about raven, I've never played a game with Bruce in it so I'm not surprised I missed that but how did I forget about a character that's in 7 and 8
This may honestly be your best video yet. Really good stuff. Excellent storytelling, pacing, editing, writing. Just hooked to my phone not realizing how fast the time went.
I think the final year of Tekken 7 stained Tekken 8's release sales. I bought everything in T7 to show my support cause it felt like the absolute best tekken since Tekken 5. Even though the content felt a little undercooked and lacking at the very beginning; at the very least it felt like Tekken was being remade for real and not just recycling an old franchise game. But the last year of DLC, specially with Leroy, felt like an unexpected cash grab by Bamco, like they were really trying to get their last big full Tekken 7 sales to boost up numbers; even if that wasn't the case, it really felt foul. I still haven't bought Tekken 8 because I felt so used as a Tekken loyalist who bought the game for friends as well, even if they didn't love it as much as I did. Something really felt off the more years went on with Tekken 7, as if Bamco had found their Call of Duty cash cow; again, even if that wasn't the case--it felt like that. I'm going to be slow on buying Tekken 8, and I might miss out on a lot of hype, but I really feel I have to be stingy with my money now. Specailly in a tight economy, throwing $60 for a base game, it's a lot to ask for.
The only reason I'm not buying t8 now is because I don't have any device to play it (I hoped it was released on PS4 since I have it but it doesn't) so I'm stuck with t7. I hoped to play it sometime soon when I have my own device to play it. But seeing the gameplay looks different than t7 makes me a little slow on thinking about buying it. Plus, I'm not a competitive player at all, I even booted up t7 once in a while because I miss playing with my main Dragunov. In fact, what made me interested in buying t8 in the first place is because Dragunov looks cool in that game. But purchasing a game just because I'm interested in only one character doesn't seem to worth buying, right? I guess I can put my interest on purchasing the game to rest now.
It’s difficult to express in words how well produced this video is. One of the best videos I’ve ever seen on TH-cam about any subject matter whatsoever. OP, if you read this, you better be making millions in film/documentaries or whatever. OG Leroy of writing, timing, editing, and production quality. I’m floored.
You could have summarized how strong Leroy was at launch by bringing up Db1,3 and db1,1+2. The high was 0 on block and tracked both ways and the mid was safe and a ch launcher, and also tracked both ways. Neither could be fuzzied since it was delayable. It broke every fundamental rule of Tekken, all in a single string. Not bringing it up at all is borderline insanity.
I wanted to get back into strive a couple of times but that feeling goes away any time I think of happy chaos and I just decide to play Blazblue. So the idea that broken characters affects everyone is very real.
Having 100 unique moves per character has its downsides. Difficulty in balancing and adjustment are obvious ones. Honestly, expected this video a bit more about Tekken than just about a Leroy guy, but Tekken wasn't for me, so I wasn't aware of the story.
Thank you Leon for Leroy video, I joined after all this had blown out in 2021 after realising DBFZ wasnt getting any love. I had a friend that mained Leroy when he dropped and has stuck to him since, but after T8 he dropped him and made him his "casual" pick. Feng took over, it's all Feng now.
Armor King I was the first actually, Bruce would be the second. But I main both of them. But, it really is telling that people are saying Fahk over Bruce! Fahk's design is crap! It's over the top edgy and looks like what a kid thinks is imposing! Bruce was simplistic and yet, very explanatory! Sometimes less is more!
Leroy also made the tekken community trem of "broken DLC". It was such a bad impression that after leroy Lidia and fak were first announced many people were less hype and more concerned. also fak was broken too with his tekken 6 moments but lidia was somewhat fair than those 2 dlc, making her also gut down to the point that she just dosnt play well in any way. The same leroy effect can be seen in Tekken 8 with drag being the new "just pick drag" as book said at evo jap when he won with leroy
I've grown spoiled from fighting game DLC's. I enjoy the base games, having the characters be tweaked and patched to reach general balance. Feels good. Then I'll drop the game once "That" DLC character gets unloaded that crushes the delicate state the game was in. Then I can just come back half a year later or something once things have been balanced more, if they ever get that way. There's enough other games to just do that these days, and it's basically inevitable for every fighting game with DLC to reach that state anyways.
I think I'm lucky that I'm a super casual Tekken spectator, because even after the huge kerfuffle, I was left thinking that Leroy was a cool as f**k character. I never had the pleasure of playing him or the displeasure of playing against him, I don't even own the game. My stakes are significantly lower than the actual players of the game. I will offer just a bit of perspective on that point you made about discrediting the idea that he wasn't patched before EVO on purpose, which is to say - maybe? But not in a conspiracy way. If you're familiar with the Smash scene, then you know that for a long time, it's had very little involvement from its devs. As a result, there were times during Smash 4 where large patches would release days before major tournaments, and tournament organizers would have to scramble to decide if they let the patch through, or let people play on the version they're accustomed to (I'm assuming this happened in Ultimate as well, but A) Nintendo has been a little more involved since Smash 4 and B) I haven't followed Ultimate's scene as closely). Bandai Namco is closely involved with EVO, it's possible that they were aware that there could be repercussions of releasing a balance patch so close to a major tournament. They'd have to weigh the calculus between people seeing Leroy as overpowered, or nerfing him and incurring the anger of the people who planned to play him at that tournament. This is mostly speculation from me though, I'm sure other people are more familiar with the inner workings at play. Ultimately, I don't attribute any malice or incompetence to it.
Hey Diaphone! I think throw is also a nice super easy way to get more punish counter damage than the jab combo (in case incorporating the HP combos doesn't work out). I'm looking forward to seeing lots of your coaching content during the Sajam Slam!
Outstanding video, visuals are super dope. Man it really is a shame whenever a character release is really hype and once they are released something like this happens. You brought it up, but bayonetta in smash 4 was so insane and never actually got any significant fixes in that game. But man I remember how excited a lot of people were for her trailer. I do appreciate the section going over the weird conspiracies people have about overtuned dlc characters. It does really show the disconnect of game devs and gamers honestly. People get this odd idea that devs can just like, know and predict everything. And that you simply must just "make a character good but not too good" which can have no issues ever and if you mess it up it must be out of malice.
Amazing Video! Instant sub. The Leroy hate is crazy... even in season 5 after all the nerfs, people hated Leroy, just for being Leroy and 90% of the players still insisted that Leroy was still top tier, broken, unfair and cheap, even though he was hit hard by the nerf hammer. Almost everyone, to this day, completely overreacts when it comes to Leroy. Because of all the reactions from Tekken players, Namco simply decided to make Leroy almost useless in Tekken 8, which I find very unfortunate, because he is still one of the coolest Tekken designs ever...
I don't know anything about tekken besides that one pokemon kerfuffle, so nothing really, but the video explained pretty much everything while being interesting to watch. loved it!
One more factor to consider regarding the patch timing is the certification process. The patch may have been submitted for review in December, but can take a while to go through QA on every platform. And while it's being QA'd, they're already working on the next patch after it.
Exactly, it takes two weeks for Sony and MS to test a patch and this process is completely unavailable during Christmas Eve to New Years Day. So the earliest they would've been able to test it would be Jan 2nd or 3rd, and any bug detected during this process could delay the patch by another week.
In which case, the earliest the patch could have released was Jan 16th. There's been worse patch releases than that (poor JeBailey), but I imagine the team weren't keen on giving the pros a relatively short notice for the first major of the year.
Still doesn't justify him coming out in the state that he did when they already had years of balancing experience with Tekken 7. You cannot suddenly make a character this strong on accident after so many years of development.
Oh yeah, I fully believe they knowingly made Leroy overpowered due to all of his hype and to boost up sales. There’s no way it was an accident. The only thing Bamco underestimated was the negative response to how overtuned he was.
Why did they release him like that in the first place. Having the context is nice. But it still looks like they released him broken on purpose to milk the cash at the cost of player’s enjoyment. Season 3 is where I lost almost all of my trust with the tekken team. The really questionable balancing decisions started with that season and they’ve only started to course correct with the patch for 8 in June.
The “Y’all need to sit the hell down” was extremely poorly timed, you can’t throw fire back when the entire community is WARNING you the character will be the only thing in the next tournament top 8
For me, the most memorable thing about Leroy in T7 is that he managed to make me want to see Julia win.
Julia is/was my main, I felt like a true hero that day watching Mikio play lmao.
getting older is releasing Mikio did so well because Julia was also lowkey busted back then
in retrospect it's even funnier that they revealed Leroy in T8 during Evo Japan
You mean Eddy-bot-streams in T8 ?)
I think it's fascinating to see how bad of an impression Leroy left on the Tekken community that even in Tekken 8 where Leroy is no longer a balance breaking monster he is one of the least played characters in the game, despite all that initial hype about his design, even when he isn't a problem, people still don't want to play him anymore due to that legacy.
which, frankly, is sad! He's still fuckin cool aesthetically and has his unique mechanics and playstyle, he's just not... full of broken shit like half the cast. He has clear strengths and weaknesses.
He was also pretty weak on Tekken 8 launch. And even though he's received some pretty good buffs, people have already found homes in other characters. I think Chikurin still plays a little bit of Leroy in 8? He was also basically the only person still using Leroy to some extent in T7 after all the nerfs
It is the stigma, casuals still think leroy is broken despite all.
Funny thing, I remember some time after the nerfs every leroy Id run into was incredibly toxic and for a good reason. If you checked their steam page it was just walls of bm sent by other players.
Basically someone would pick up the chatacter and learn the game while being showered by insults. They just assumed it was normal in the community.
Hopefully Leroy becomes a lesson for Bamco about not making DLC characters too OP.
T7 forever tainted his legacy and his popularity still haven't recovered.
Just like bayo in ultimate
Thank you Leon for gently informing me the big revelation that Marshall Law is actually British. Never would have known coz of his very convincing American Accent for a Chinese-British.
So that's why his beef were too damn spicy, those damn British thugs can't eat proper foods
If he's based on Bruce Lee, shouldn't he be from Hong Kong? By his first appearance, Hong Kong would've been under British rule. Technically.
No way man, the game’s lore states that he has to compete in the tournament to pay for his son Forrest’s medical bills you can’t get more american than that 🦅🦅🦅
thanks antimage
@chocomarmotte you pay for medical bills through taxes, and have a worse Healthcare systems for it lmao.
honestly just stopped by to say that I *really* like the thumbnail's rejection of algorithmic fuckery. no clickbait title, no boring and hella derivative layout, just an engaging title with an image that piques the viewer's curiosity.
tasteful.
classy.
a gd breath of fresh air, frfr.
It's a clickbait title. "Tekken's HypeTrain Disaster" is textbook.
Yeah, but wouldn't it be better if the thumbnail was a picture of Heihachi with a censor bar saying "DISASTER" covering his eyes?
You might be blind or illiterate because the title is textbook clickbait. It feels you no woodcutting about the video, while using words like disaster which draw you in bevause for some reason people love learning about failure.
picture of kazuya with his eyes censored.
"..tekken is DEAD.." in red font.
@@hteety You really don't seem to understand what clickbait is. Clickbait isn't just "enticing titles", it implies deception about the contents of the video. That title accurately describes the entire thesis of the video.
ah yes, Leroy, my favorite character, i’ve been playing him since Tekken 3
Heh! I see what ya did there. 😏
No bs 😂
Nice Tekken netflix reference
I can’t believe how much of a jobber they made him in that show, Jin just wiped the floor with him
@@ProxyFox45tbf Jin has been consistently the strongest Mishima in the series with the best feats to boot, his first game had him killing the God of Fighting, next game he beats both his dad and grandpa after learning an entirely different martial art from what he was raised to know, next he beats his demon possessed great grandfather and the next one he one shots satan
Hold on, that throwaway line about Shadow Mewtwo releasing with literally solved gameplay, I need to know more. Has anyone made a video about that character out there? Please tell me if so
Shadow mewtwo came out with a loop that put you into infinite blockstun where you'd eventually shieldbreak or die from chip? iforget which.. from a ranged projectile that's a vertical pillar. They got fixed pretty quickly but like... you know. He was a boss character that they only later made playable so that's basically how it happened.
My first reaction was "Pokken mentioned???"
Then "Shadow Mewtwo had an infinite?"
And now "Wait, if I wanted to cheese the AI then I'd play Chandelure."
4:47 and Bruce gets forgotten once more
And Raven too
That crossed my mind too. But to be fair Leon may have meant in Tekken 7 specifically since Bruce and OG Raven weren't around. And still never were afterwards either.
dudes a clown
Technically, Eddy Gordo is Afro-American too, but not NORTH-AMERICAN. The usage of America like a definition to USA make my south-american skin itchy sometimes
And then Fakhumram came and devs did the same thing
And this is why you dont automatically try to make excuses or fence hop for devs. they have used up all their excuses for decades now. They need to start learning from their mistakes. And honestly be held accountable for it.
@@XShinobixXx You need to take your medication, and go outside.
@@XShinobixXx What people and the maker of the video doesn't get is that this isn't unintentional. They are using the SFV method of using OP DLC to permanently destroy the meta to make people rush to the next installment (6,7,8,...) because new installment = more balance = more money for devs. Leroy may be an accident but Fahkumram sure isn't. Not a coincidence the actual Thai born Muay Thai practitioner doesn't return yet Leroy does.
@@nonamepasserbya6658 thats a interesting theory. makes sense!
@@nonamepasserbya6658 is it exhausting assuming everyone is out to hurt you? lol
While I'm inclined to agree that Leroy's busted kit was an unfortunate misstep, just remember that this game charged you for frame data. The devs were absolutely greedy on this game!
On one hand, the practice of putting a game's ability to display it's frame data behind a paywall *is* silly. But the demographic of players that frame data is important to, should have had the season pass anyway, in which case you were effectively getting it for free.
Also, Bamco already tried the goodwill route of 'free fanservice DLC' with Tag 2. The overwhelming majority of future T7 players didn't give Tag 2 a chance regardless. So there's that.
Because the devs are the ones who decide everything about pricing and definitely not publishers, ceos, and the marketing team right
@@Wormopera of course! I think janitors is to blame honestly. CEOs and greedy mans with money are too cute to be bad!
@@Wormopera the developers made the game sh17, brother. marketing only sold what they made. not saying the whole company isn't culpable as a whole structure, but saying the devs are innocent is honestly insane.
@@strykah92you are bad at games if you think the average fighting game player does not care about frame data
4:47 "This will also be the first african american representation"
Bruce Irvin: "And i took that personally."
Maybe Leon didn't want to mention Bruce cause he's his worst nightmare.
Raven too, hes not in 7 but still
I'm assuming he meant African American as in a black guy from America. If not then Leon is just skipping over many other black characters in the game like many before him did when Leroy released
@@felipo_galaxy1853 master raven too!
@@Ravemaster620 Bruce Irvin is/was American. So I guess he just forgor/never knew of him to begin with.
It gets more interesting, as Tekken 7 would continue to have very strong DLC characters, with Fahkumram, Kunimitsu, and Lidia all being considered top tier at some point after their release.
Tekken 8 on the other hand, seems to have gone in a vastly different direction so far, with Eddy being considered by some pros to be among the worst in the game, and Lidia being solidly middle of the pack.
I absolutely prefer something like this. It shows you that they care less about baiting people into buying the DLC with an advantageous, powerful character, and more about adding interesting pieces for the game as a whole. We're getting a whole damn chapter in the story mode for free when Heihachi drops with the previous two DLCs starring heavily in it, so they're really putting care into the story through these additions now.
Fahkumram at launch was almost as bad as Leroy, that’s the funny thing. Clearly top 1 in hindsight, had numerous overtuned tools and he was even literally borked in some ways having wonky hurtboxes and a throw that was harder to break than other throws. And then by the end of the game, he ended up as one of the worst characters in the game.
Jeondding has been cooking with Eddy tho. I think Eddy was considered lower tier at higher levels in T7 as well. But yes, its much more preferable to have it like this, especially with you not being able to use the replay features against these DLC characters unless you own them. SF6 has also done this quite well, Season 1 introduced 2 of the hardest characters to play, and the rest are considered good enough.
One more thing I will add is that while Tekken 8's DLC characters haven't been a problem so far, I would not be surprised if at least one of them ends up being problematic at some point down the line. Tekken 7 did have some DLC characters earlier in its life who weren't competitively powerful on release but others...
We'll obviously have to see how this plays out but considering that Tekken 8 is planned to have a very long life span and Bandai Namco's track record, I would be more surprised if the game ends up having no busted DLC characters.
@@bigbangbot-SuperSqank that can always happen, the point is that they react faster, unlike Tekken 7. And there's always the chance that a character seems strong but people just need to adapt, like DVJ in T8, or JP in SF6
4:50 BRO WHAT ? Bruce was the first african american in tekken all the way back in T2 and then Ravenqas added in T5 yes his nationality is unknown but the distinctly american accent and being based off wesley snipes gives it away 💀
I turned off the video when he did this because I was like lol wut? Everyone acting like every franchise was made yesterday. He didn’t even mention that the main selling point of Leroy is that I have always been disappointed that no one ever explored the Wu-Tang aesthetic in a fighting game.
@@Yosefhouser it turns out he never played a tekken game with bruce in it, man didn't know.
Watching this while waiting for the Yu-Gi-Oh banlist thank you Leon
lmao hearing about overpowered strategies from other games probably sounds like a sitcom to you
Turns out we actually got a fiendsmith hit.
Oof, sorry you’re playing YGO. I hear this format sucks.
@@ChicaneryBear Dpn't worry I don't actually play tcg yu-gi-oh I just think it's cool
Thank you for the concern
No hit to snake-eyes. Garbage format as always.
Bruce was the first african american rep not leroy
Yeah, right. Next thing you'll tell me that Tekken 7 wasn't the start of the series.
Probably meant in T7, not the series as a a whole.
ah yes bruce my favorite character in tekken 7
@@AirLancer Master Raven was the first African American rep in t7. She came with the game on release.
@@thelastgogetadon’t worry tekken 7 was the start of the series
32:53 I can't believe Leroy was MOASS this whole time
Eventually the US government will have no choice but to concede to Leroy Players’ demands
If we DRS as much T7 DLC as we can afford, we can hodl for infinite damage
I'll be hinest, i wasn't expecting a Folding Ideas refrence in this Tekken retrospective
New Leonardo Massive video, dropping everything I'm doing
a Leonardo Massive W in my books
Wow I did not expect the extremely niche and brief Dan Olson "conspiracy jar" shoutout at 32:55.
Dragunovs qcf4 in T8 is the equivalent of Leroys d1+2 in T7. Literally a move that does everything and has no weaknesses. Throw it out whenever and it will probably work. Just crazy to think that the devs havent learned their lessons in T7.
It's not just that they didn't learn their lessons, they also double down on purpose by adding heat.
it doesnt track to the right at all. Just like all the other bitching over dragunov, thats an exaggereation to say no weaknesses.
Well it isn’t is it? It’s at least 4 frames slower (assuming the Drag player does a perfect qcf input, and you’ll see from replay input history that they don’t 99% of the time) and can only be used as a launcher once per round with massive combo scaling. It’s a good move regardless but has a very different metagame to what Leroy’s d1+2 did.
It sounds like the actual equivalence you’re really making is you’re just tired of seeing a ‘meta character’ very frequently. That’s always gonna exist to an extent in future seasons of T8 and beyond.
This shit was so painful to live through if you were big into Tekken 7. Game was being eaten alive by Bamco
I'm not disagreeing that Bamco's handling of the game was less than stellar at points, but it was also their continued support of it that saved the series.
@@richardsinclair7661 hahahaha
@@richardsinclair7661 that's hilarious. To further nail the point home, T8 is an absolute shit show in so many ways. T9 will be a 2D game, calling it now.
@@Haka-f3k-utekken 8 pretty much was 2D day one. Auzecena made me sick to my stomach
@@ricky2012100So dramatic
32:52 holy shit I was not expecting to see a This Is Financial Advice reference in a Tekken DLC video essay of all things, hell yeah
POKKEN TOURNAMENT MENTIONED 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
The editing on this is amazing! It's nice to see fighting game essays with this much love put into them!
Leroy was and still is cool design wise.
4:47 "First African-American"??? Bruce? Raven? Master Raven? You high, bro?
Glad to have contributed the tiniest amount to this video reminding Leon that T7 had cabinets with instructions on
4:48 Wait... what about Bruce?
SNK Kyo fans and Tekken Bruce fans must be getting numb to this FGC erasure.
Bruce can stay gone, Never thought he was cool in the older titles and fahkumram was just a direct upgrade in every way, Design, Feel, Balance not really obviously, He's more likely to come back than Bruce ever will be
@@justagamethrower Your feelings about Bruce don't change the fact that Leroy wasn't Tekken's 1st African American rep.
@@justagamethroweryour feeling are also just that. Your feelings. Clearly a lot of people feel differently. Why do you speak as though your opinion is the only thing that matters?
“Hey is anyone else been getting weird dms from Dr. disrespect?” That was so random and so funny lol
Damn Leon is so twitch chat pilled he popped a True
True
I really appreciate the dimming of the white screencaptures to ease eyestrain. I am reminded each video that Leon's production for these is world class
Leroy in the style of Where's Waldo/Wally is so killer, great visual gags throughout
Loved the narrative but subscribed specifically for all the extra little animations throughout the entire video!
What a great video!!! SO much editing and the 3d models 🤯
We've seen this happpen before, even in smash ultimate. We seen them nerf pichu, peach and zss into the ground; meanwhile kazuya exists, and steve was left unpatched, steve can do shit no other character can, he literally can prevent you from grabbing the ledge by placing a block there unless your recovery move has a strong enough hitbox. He is smash ultimate's on-release Leroy and was left unpatched because minecraft = sells :/
when the majority of pro players are basically saying, “character is busted and if you want a chance to win then play this character” then the tournament organizers should ban the character… esp when the devs have said a week in advance, “yes the character is busted and we’re gonna patch it.” and if you ask me, this Leroy hate has carried over into Tekken 8. it’s so sad.
At that time there was also a ton of downplay and "it's still too soon to make conclusions". Tekken community is also very averse to character bans in tournaments.
It literally took 6 Leroys in EVO JP's top 8 for a lot of people to concede that maybe this Leroy character is a problem.
And then everyone threatens to not come to the tournament while everyone else complains.
This happens every time. It works only if the game is too small like HftF or the game is rendered genuinely unplayable like...actually, I can't remember any relevant game that isn't known kusoge where characters get banned properly.
the time period from Leroy's first trailer to Leroy Day One was the best time period of my life.
I loved this video, it brings back many memories, crazy how it's been almost 5 years, this whole Leroy situation felt like yesterday.
Never forget Yuriwo's incredible run at EVO Japan 2020 where she took Asuka into a sea of Leroys and almost made top 8.
That's my hero right there.
This video was really well done, a great overview of T7's lowest moments, but I don't agree with you on how intentional were the balancing decisions regarding Leroy. I can agree that the patch timing was a product of circumstance and that the devs definitely didn't want the top 8 of the most important tournament filled with Leroys, but making the character busted was definitely part of their design. Bamco has a history of making overpowered dlc characters to increase sales, and you just need to look at T7's dlc list to understand it. Here's a quick list of the characters that were, at least at some point, considered broken out of all of tekken 7's dlcs: Geese, Marduk, Julia, Zafina, Leroy, Fahkumram, Kunimitsu and Lidia.
That means that more than half of T7's dlcs were purposely made too strong. Hell, they even did this again in T8 with Eddy's release lol.
I love tekken, it was the first fighting game that I fell in love with and it made it possible for me to develop the passion that I have for the genre today. But tekken devs are undeniably money hungry worms that, at least in the last years, have repeatedly shown that they don't give a single fuck about how happy players are with their vision of the game.
The 'making DLC characters broken on purpose to help them sell' is a pseudo-intellectual conspiracy theory as old as DLC in fighting games itself. Games from Capcom, Arcsys, NRS, SNK and others have all been through it prior. But the fact that you've only listed half of T7's DLC characters automatically has your theory fall apart. In my case, I played Armor King, who was also a DLC character in T7, yet overall worse off from his Tag 2 incarnation.
While I do agree Bamco lost the plot with Leroy and Fahkumram especially, they also could've had many moves from their spiritual predecessors (Wang and Bruce respectively) that they thankfully didn't. Like the sound of Leroy with waning moon? Yeah, me neither.
Even Julia, who I wouldn't say was on the same wavelength as those two in their prime in T7, she has a whole laundry list of fuckeries from prior Tekken games that easily could've been brought back in T7 if there was a 'conscious effort' to make her broken.
@@strykah92... So you're saying that having at least 50% of DLC characters S tier on release isn't enough to make it kind of a "rule"? Would you have preferred to have all DLCs in tekken be made broken? Would that suffice for you to accept that Bamco loves these predatory practices (or, at the very least, has no idea on how to balance their own game)?
I've been an AK main for 80% of T7's life, and that definitely wasn't enough to make me forget how stupid most of the DLCs have been lol. Also, AK was a special case since he had most of his core moves "stolen" by King in T7. Him being considered weak-ish was mostly due to his lack of defining characteristics when compared to King. Sure he had a wavedash and his dark upper for whiff punishing, but what's the point of that when you're giving King one of AK's best whiff punishers (f2,1) anyway? What's the point of playing the character who's more poke heavy and neutral oriented when some of his best pokes (d3, for example) were inherited by King, who still had the better Oki, throws, rage drive and damage?
I reeeeeally don't think that AK is a good example of how the DLC characters were balanced in tekken 7, especially since he's always been a fan favourite. As an alternative example, think of Heihachi's reveal in T8. Bamco definitely doesn't need to make him S tier, since everybody already knows and loves the character, but even if they were to release him as a B tier, it wouldn't make me forget about Eddy lol.
Also, I can't stress enough that we're not talking about releasing a "good" character. We're talking about releasing meta defining characters that will be consistently seen in tournaments until they get nerfed, all of this while not allowing those who didn't buy the DLC to lab said characters. I just don't understand how you can shut your eyes in front of these facts and act like Bamco isn't constantly trying to fuck you in the ass, my brother
the dustforce soundtrack blessing my ears
Not to downplay Mikio, he is without a doubt a cracked player, but Julia was also broken in her own right, not as egregious as Leroy of course, but Evo confirmed my suspicions that Julia was slept on.
In Tag 2 she was Jaycee
Honestly I'm grateful for this disaster upon the Tekken meta because for the past few years before it happened Tekken fans were constantly treating fans of other games as if their games were inferior and poorly balanced baby games in comparison to Tekken
That’s literally every FGC circle but whatever
that's an insane thing to say considering that even tekken pre-7 had some 'so busted you'd be an idiot for not playing them at tournament' characters.
Oh shit, Leon is a fighting-game historical journalist now.
I am certain his "Fear and Loathing" is fast approaching.
Happy that you have found your niche!
I remember in university (I studied History), we had to archive some website and explain why it would be worth archiving.
I chose the Dustloop wiki and explained that it is impervious for media historians, as it gives us an understanding not just of the phenomenon, but also the culture around that phenomenon.
I got an A for that. Even though I have no idea if the archive actually worked.
he gets a lot of facts about games that aren't GG xrd wrong to be considered a journalist. Like his KOF video about combo links or this very video about Leroy being the first african american Tekken character
@@kainewest6308 Actually, reporting on things they get wrong are what a journalist often does. Because he's a journalist, not a scientist.
Hunter S. Thompson was considered a journalist. And he wrote about drug trips.
The important part is getting people interested to delve deeper into the topic.
@@DrunkenCoward1that’s not wha the meant and journalists don’t often get things wrong. And they certainly don’t get things wrong that are practically self-evident.
@@funkrates4778 journalists don't often get things wrong??? Are you serious? They get shit wrong on purpose, dude. They're blatant liars for the most part
I spit out my drink laughing at that Dr.Disrespect jab lol
Didn't expect to see Pokken mentioned at all lol, would love to see it as a topic soneday! Great video as always!
I'm happy to see a video about t7 since I don't have t8
One of the best videos on fighting games I’ve seen. You are underrated my friend, but you have at least one life long fan
4:47 the first african american...
Master Raven: Am I a joke to you??
Bruce Irvin!!
@@MitsuSC He wasn't in Tekken7
@@liv3vil-Kei He was talking about the first African American in Tekken, not the first in T7. Bruce was the first.
@@MitsuSC Bro he is literally talking about new entries in T7.
This was a really well made video about a topic I care about deeply. I've ranted about this stuff for hours to my girlfriend. I've always wanted to see a in depth video essay about Tekken 7 and what went wrong with it, thank you for making it.
If you want the viewer to understand what +13 damage to a combo means, maybe just telling us the HP value of some characters would be useful. I don’t know if 13 damage is 1/10 of a King’s HP, or 1/20, so the flat number doesn’t really mean anything. An increase from 64 to 77 supposedly means a lot, but you just saying that and showing the amount of interactions it takes for the game to be over doesn’t tell me how much of a difference that +13 makes for Leroy. If that makes sense, I’m also just a person who likes seeing all the number in fighting games.
Tekken characters have 145 health across the board for what its worth
@@NotLuigiAt the time of Leroy's release, characters had 170 HP. After season 4, this was increased to 175 HP.
I was completely blindsided by the Folding Ideas, but it was so perfect
Man, the quality in editing is insane. The little sfx scratches my brain too
He doesn't always upload, but when he does. I drop everything and enjoy the banger.
I was bitching about him on day 1. First thing I did was take him into practice mode with frame data on, and I was like my god this is Tekken 6 Bob all over again. This move is dumb, this move is dumb, this move is dumb. Took him to Yaksa by the next day. Which was crazy because I'm a Lars main, and my Lars at the time was perpetually stuck in the ruler ranks.
Tekken 7 after Dec 2019 was nightmare as explained in this video but I didn't expect T8 to be worse than this...
I'm not talking about balance issue with dragunov
Regarding the financial decision to release strong DLC characters... I will say, I've worked on two major live service games (LoL and Marvel Snap), and in both, designers explicitly want new characters/cards to be strong. Nobody wants to break the game, but they DO want the character to be competitive-relevant. For LoL, there's a sweetspot in the top 10-50-ish where the character is competitive-viable in both solo queue and esports, and Marvel Snap has pretty blatant power creep. Characters in that sweetspot generate a lot of positive marketing, engagement, as well as sales.
With that said, LoL and Snap are able to identify and nerf problem characters much faster than fighting devs, for whatever reason. Also, as free-to-play games, the financial incentive is probably larger compared to a box + DLC revenue model of fighting games.
I do appreciate you standing up for us developers though 😅
13:24 HOLY SHIT I'M NOT THE ONLY PERSON WHO REMEMBERS THIS GAME
I do too! Heihachu is easily one of the best parts.
Something similar to the Mikio storyline in 2020 happened recently with EWC top 8 with Tekken 8. Yagami was the fan favourite Reina that took it back from 0-4 to beat Chanel. Also isn't Bruce and Master raven/Raven African-American? Leon isn't beating the fighting game secondary allegations
Oh my days I completely forgot about raven, I've never played a game with Bruce in it so I'm not surprised I missed that but how did I forget about a character that's in 7 and 8
@@LeonMassey To be fair Raven has no clear origin. She could be a Mexican for all we know.
This may honestly be your best video yet. Really good stuff. Excellent storytelling, pacing, editing, writing. Just hooked to my phone not realizing how fast the time went.
This video felt like the peak of Leon Massey this far. The new high quality with the older style. Its really good content, keep it up!
I think the final year of Tekken 7 stained Tekken 8's release sales. I bought everything in T7 to show my support cause it felt like the absolute best tekken since Tekken 5. Even though the content felt a little undercooked and lacking at the very beginning; at the very least it felt like Tekken was being remade for real and not just recycling an old franchise game.
But the last year of DLC, specially with Leroy, felt like an unexpected cash grab by Bamco, like they were really trying to get their last big full Tekken 7 sales to boost up numbers; even if that wasn't the case, it really felt foul.
I still haven't bought Tekken 8 because I felt so used as a Tekken loyalist who bought the game for friends as well, even if they didn't love it as much as I did.
Something really felt off the more years went on with Tekken 7, as if Bamco had found their Call of Duty cash cow; again, even if that wasn't the case--it felt like that.
I'm going to be slow on buying Tekken 8, and I might miss out on a lot of hype, but I really feel I have to be stingy with my money now. Specailly in a tight economy, throwing $60 for a base game, it's a lot to ask for.
You ain't missing anything dw. There isn't any hype, tournaments are great but the game itself when you play it, NAH.
The only reason I'm not buying t8 now is because I don't have any device to play it (I hoped it was released on PS4 since I have it but it doesn't) so I'm stuck with t7. I hoped to play it sometime soon when I have my own device to play it. But seeing the gameplay looks different than t7 makes me a little slow on thinking about buying it. Plus, I'm not a competitive player at all, I even booted up t7 once in a while because I miss playing with my main Dragunov. In fact, what made me interested in buying t8 in the first place is because Dragunov looks cool in that game. But purchasing a game just because I'm interested in only one character doesn't seem to worth buying, right?
I guess I can put my interest on purchasing the game to rest now.
It’s difficult to express in words how well produced this video is. One of the best videos I’ve ever seen on TH-cam about any subject matter whatsoever. OP, if you read this, you better be making millions in film/documentaries or whatever. OG Leroy of writing, timing, editing, and production quality. I’m floored.
You could have summarized how strong Leroy was at launch by bringing up Db1,3 and db1,1+2. The high was 0 on block and tracked both ways and the mid was safe and a ch launcher, and also tracked both ways. Neither could be fuzzied since it was delayable. It broke every fundamental rule of Tekken, all in a single string. Not bringing it up at all is borderline insanity.
Really not the biggest deal. Just block
Always happy to see a Leon video pop up in my feed
Bro really said KOF's Geese instead of Fatal Fury.
Insanely high effort and well edited, gj
4:53, exactly why I felt so represented and included when azucena was announced
Leon read me like a book
Fantastic video dude. I can't believe its closing in on 5 years. Seems like yesterday.
Had to wait for my scented candles and a five course meal to arrive to enjoy another Leon banger
4:50 "first african american representation"
im no lore expert but isnt bruce from USA?!
Also hello? Raven?
@@XenoChron2 facts
Awesomely made video! Thank you very much! 🙏🙌
I wanted to get back into strive a couple of times but that feeling goes away any time I think of happy chaos and I just decide to play Blazblue. So the idea that broken characters affects everyone is very real.
Asuka, then Slayer, then Ram(?)
Having 100 unique moves per character has its downsides. Difficulty in balancing and adjustment are obvious ones.
Honestly, expected this video a bit more about Tekken than just about a Leroy guy, but Tekken wasn't for me, so I wasn't aware of the story.
I love the use of Paper Mario and Wario Land 4 sound effects
Leroy is not the first African American character in Tekken. Have we really forgotten about Bruce?
its about tekken 7 not the series
@@Centro-centro Master Raven????
Absolutely god like production on the video with research to go along with it? Sub.
4:10 I laughed at the Jiri Prochazka reference, didn't expect the shaman magic comment to be referenced in a Tekken video
Great content, as usual :3
Thank you Leon for Leroy video, I joined after all this had blown out in 2021 after realising DBFZ wasnt getting any love.
I had a friend that mained Leroy when he dropped and has stuck to him since, but after T8 he dropped him and made him his "casual" pick.
Feng took over, it's all Feng now.
“First African-American representation”
fuck Bruce then, right? tekken secondaries i swear 🙄
Armor King I was the first actually, Bruce would be the second. But I main both of them. But, it really is telling that people are saying Fahk over Bruce! Fahk's design is crap! It's over the top edgy and looks like what a kid thinks is imposing! Bruce was simplistic and yet, very explanatory! Sometimes less is more!
I know basically nothing about Tekken and the competitive scene. I loved this video! So well edited too
Leroy also made the tekken community trem of "broken DLC". It was such a bad impression that after leroy Lidia and fak were first announced many people were less hype and more concerned. also fak was broken too with his tekken 6 moments but lidia was somewhat fair than those 2 dlc, making her also gut down to the point that she just dosnt play well in any way.
The same leroy effect can be seen in Tekken 8 with drag being the new "just pick drag" as book said at evo jap when he won with leroy
This is a masterclass edit for something thats nearly an hour
I've grown spoiled from fighting game DLC's. I enjoy the base games, having the characters be tweaked and patched to reach general balance. Feels good. Then I'll drop the game once "That" DLC character gets unloaded that crushes the delicate state the game was in. Then I can just come back half a year later or something once things have been balanced more, if they ever get that way. There's enough other games to just do that these days, and it's basically inevitable for every fighting game with DLC to reach that state anyways.
I missed Evo Japan that year so this was a really great recap!
I think I'm lucky that I'm a super casual Tekken spectator, because even after the huge kerfuffle, I was left thinking that Leroy was a cool as f**k character. I never had the pleasure of playing him or the displeasure of playing against him, I don't even own the game. My stakes are significantly lower than the actual players of the game.
I will offer just a bit of perspective on that point you made about discrediting the idea that he wasn't patched before EVO on purpose, which is to say - maybe? But not in a conspiracy way. If you're familiar with the Smash scene, then you know that for a long time, it's had very little involvement from its devs. As a result, there were times during Smash 4 where large patches would release days before major tournaments, and tournament organizers would have to scramble to decide if they let the patch through, or let people play on the version they're accustomed to (I'm assuming this happened in Ultimate as well, but A) Nintendo has been a little more involved since Smash 4 and B) I haven't followed Ultimate's scene as closely). Bandai Namco is closely involved with EVO, it's possible that they were aware that there could be repercussions of releasing a balance patch so close to a major tournament. They'd have to weigh the calculus between people seeing Leroy as overpowered, or nerfing him and incurring the anger of the people who planned to play him at that tournament. This is mostly speculation from me though, I'm sure other people are more familiar with the inner workings at play. Ultimately, I don't attribute any malice or incompetence to it.
Hey Diaphone! I think throw is also a nice super easy way to get more punish counter damage than the jab combo (in case incorporating the HP combos doesn't work out).
I'm looking forward to seeing lots of your coaching content during the Sajam Slam!
Editing is top tier, loved the storytelling. Got a new sub with me. Great content!
Hitboxes that would put marth to shame got me pretty...
and then you brought up mikio...one of the coolest sad things i ever saw
Holy shit dude I don’t want to glaze but the quality of your videos are always so good!!!
i hope you'll make a DBFZ video, it's my favorite fighting game but the state that it was left in the end is very sad
"leroy is the first black character in tekken"
so does bruce just not exist
Outstanding video, visuals are super dope.
Man it really is a shame whenever a character release is really hype and once they are released something like this happens. You brought it up, but bayonetta in smash 4 was so insane and never actually got any significant fixes in that game. But man I remember how excited a lot of people were for her trailer.
I do appreciate the section going over the weird conspiracies people have about overtuned dlc characters. It does really show the disconnect of game devs and gamers honestly. People get this odd idea that devs can just like, know and predict everything. And that you simply must just "make a character good but not too good" which can have no issues ever and if you mess it up it must be out of malice.
And then they released Fakh, Lidia and Kuni all over tuned
Marduk...
This video is so worth the watch. My goodness
Amazing Video! Instant sub.
The Leroy hate is crazy... even in season 5 after all the nerfs, people hated Leroy, just for being Leroy and 90% of the players still insisted that Leroy was still top tier, broken, unfair and cheap, even though he was hit hard by the nerf hammer.
Almost everyone, to this day, completely overreacts when it comes to Leroy.
Because of all the reactions from Tekken players, Namco simply decided to make Leroy almost useless in Tekken 8, which I find very unfortunate, because he is still one of the coolest Tekken designs ever...
Not the main point of the video, but I always appreciate your inclusion of Melee as a reference point among other fighting games
It's ok Harada. *I* still love Leroy :)
I don't know anything about tekken besides that one pokemon kerfuffle, so nothing really, but the video explained pretty much everything while being interesting to watch. loved it!
Rest in Power Leroy's 1st reveal trailer track & Solitary Warrior instrumental⚰️🙏😔
Never being released.