Meeting and Debating Atris
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 ธ.ค. 2016
- On the exile's journey to find her stolen ship, the Ebon Hawk, the trail led her to the polar regions of Telos. Unbeknownst to her, there's a secret Jedi academy there, led by Jedi master, historian, and council members, Atris. Atris was part of the council that sent Meetra Surik into exile.
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#StarWars #KOTOR2 #Expandeduniverse - เกม
It's funny because Atris is likely holding herself back from jumping your bones throughout this entire conversation.
Is she the big gay?
but she does later on in the game, when she turns to the dark side lol
@@chrischin_94 lol Actualy the opposite, it is only revealed she might have feelings for you if you are playing a male character.
@@luizgustavosmolarek4440 Im sure if the game was made today she'd act like this for both genders
There is no heterosexual explanation for her keeping something as intimate as your lightsaber and her obsessing over your decision to leave her behind for over 10 years
@@scapelife Pretty much, video game characters today are playersexual lol.
Getting to this conversation was one of the many reasons I kept coming back to this game. The fact that you can call Atris out on all the things wrong with the Jedi and their teachings, and how you're able to push her buttons and make her lash out at you. It's a great opportunity to show players that even the great "masters" don't have as much control as they believe.
And honestly, if what the Exile says truly angers Atris, or any Jedi for that matter, then it's about time someone told them how wrong they really were
And she already fell to the dark side at this point.
@@TurkeyOEZ but still thought herself the "hero jedi"
Ah, you are a perceptive one.
agreed the writing in this game was incredible. The arrogance of the jedi is really irritating, it's satisfying to call them out on their crap
@@aamirrazak3467 The Jedi were hardly "Jedi" at this point tbh. Some were, like Kavar, but even he was pretty clouded by fear of the unknown. Can't really blame them though, the Jedi of this time period had been put through the grinder. First Exar Kun's War, then Revan's War, and finally the Triumberate's War.
There's a fantastic intelligence check that's my favorite part of this exchange that you missed.
8:42
"The other rim worlds devastated by the Sith will remain graveyard worlds, devoid of life. And that is the magnitude of your crime."
[Intelligence] "That's almost as bad as the Jedi letting the outer rim die during the Mandalorian Wars."
It's a good thing Atris made her secret Jedi Academy in the polar region of Telos, because she was gonna need to roll around in the snow for a while to recover from that sick burn.
I know. Maybe I should remake this.
I remember when I first played I was just like ... "shut up stoopiiiid GIMME BACK MY LIGHTSABEEEER !!!" :D
While Atris' sense of self-righteousness is abhorrent, I actually feel genuine compassion for her. As much as we despise her for what she did and how she judged Meetra, I sometimes wonder if perhaps we're more inclined to behave as she did when confronted with similar circumstances. She wanted to follow Revan, but was too afraid and weak, the the teachings of the Jedi so deeply ingrained. She was jealous of Meetra's ability to act, and therefore grew to resent her.
Atris reminds me of Susan Pevensie from The Chronicles of Narnia: Prince Caspian. When Lucy told her siblings that Aslan was nearby, Susan believed her. But she was tired and afraid from the long days spent in the wood, and she envied her sister because Aslan had concealed himself to all but her. Therefore, despite her belief, Susan argued with her siblings and protested the entire journey until she came face to face with the Lion.
When the war was won, it was won without Atris, even though she knew deep inside that it was the right thing to do. Her shame and regret were of such magnitude that she couldn't live with the truth. She had to justify her decision somehow, or else face the ugly truth for what it was. So she judged Meetra and helped to exile her, and she eventually buried away her shame until all that was left was a sense of moral supremacy and a deep loathing for the choices Meetra made that she could not.
Very well put, in my eyes, she might be one of the more tragic characters in the game. The way her regret and anger has warped her perception of herself and everyone around her, just barely concealed beneath a veil of righteousness just gets more pitiable every time I replay this game. Sadly, her ability at self-deception is all too common in the real world.
There is no reason to hate artis, only to understand she is brainwashed by her code and knows nothing else
@@chrisquinn3377 I don’t think anyone hates Atris. They just pity her because she’s a relic from a bygone era of Jedi.
"It is such a quiet thing, to fall. But far more terrible is to admit it." - Kreia to Atris
What i love about this scene is how even the nicest exile character lines are clearly strained, confrontational talking to Artis, showing how Artis's personality cuts deep into them and how filled their history is on many levels.
Atris is just the perfect embodiment of foolish hypocrisy.
the arrogance of the jedi that palpatine spoke of. They think they are high and mighty, they know everything, whatever they do is perfect and righteous, they can never do no wrong, they make the rules, and whoever dares to discuss anything with them is labeled as some ''sith'' and quickly killed. As brainwashed as the sith.
arrogance and hypocrisy seem to be common traits for the jedi
And the sith
@@llVIU The thing I love most, is that she knows she is saying what she is expected to say, rather than what she truly thinks. She holds the Exile in such contempt because she was so in awe of the Exile, idolised her; and envied her for making a decision she was not strong enough to make herself. So Atris convinced herself that the Exile had betrayed her. She's such an easy character to dislike, and disregard; but like so many in KOTOR 2 she's such a deep and meaningful character - not merely the archetypical lecturing hypocrite that Bastila of KOTOR 1 personified.
@@llVIU At no point has the Jedi ever just offed anyone for thinking differently from them. Not even the most hypocritical of Jedi. And no, they don't just label anything they don't like as a "Sith" -Atris was already a Fallen Jedi at this point and the others saw what the Exile was -a Wound in the Force that could become the literal Death of the Force. Jedi Arrogance is true, but they generally are pretty pacifistic and geniunely decent.
Just because they're not literally perfect doesn't make them "as brainwashed as the Sith" whom practice genocide consistently. This moral relativist BS is stupid.
“I want my property - my slaves and my ship - returned.”
lol
Admittedly, one of my favorite parts of this conversation was being able to respond with "I'm here because a pretentious schutta stole my ship". Though as previously mentioned in the comments, the Intelligence-check response is pretty gold too.
I remember playing this as a kid and realizing that this conversation was the real boss fight of Telos. Not the Tank Droid in the military base. Not the HK droids out on the mesa.
Atris. She's a boss fight with no real win or loss condition, but the story is subtly different based on how the discussion goes.
Well said. It's a moment to really define some things about the Exile.
Your right the 1st encounter with Atria does feel like a verbal boss fight.
She was low key threatening you with your own lightsaber.
And 99% of us didn't give a shit.
Atris was never a threat.
@@mhiization For real. I made even better dual lightsabers and beat her with them when she's just holding my old blade.
Oh man, even as a dark sided Exile, I could never discard the opportunity to throw shade at Atris and the Jedi Council for exiling me when I tried to do the right thing (I.e the Mandalorians would’ve killed everyone and the Jedi couldn’t stand back and watch.). I ALWAYS go out of my way for this debate, no exceptions.
yeah, writers did such a good job on atris, it always riles you up. she's just an ignorant, pretentious ball of hate.
I constantly threw shade at Atis, even as a Light Side Jedi Guardian/Master build. And I was still Light Side while doing it.
Funny how they say "no, you just have to get to know the Mandalorians." We did. They practically nuke'd Serroco when we were just out camping there. There's no telling how much more destruction they would cause.
So, Atris, you would punish countless innocents for the actions of the Mandalorians by allowing them to die? And just as well to let Telos be devastated further for what you had done?
She eventually realizes she has gone Dark Side.
This is something I adore about Obsidian writing (or their past ways) the answers lie within you player not a character. You know you made a mistake but why and what you learned from it is personal lesson. Nobody will tell you who you are but yourself.
13 minutes and 3 seconds of depth, plot and storytelling of infinitely greater quality than the entire Disney trilogy.
Preach
You know what else doesn't have this density of plot or storytelling?
ANY of the Star Wars movies. taking 13 minutes out of a 2 hr run time to spout exposition is a TERRIBLE idea. But even setting aside the time limitations, none of the movies have anything like this. The closest might be Yoda's training on Dagobah, or, and brace yourself this might make you shit your pants at the thought, but Yoda and Luke's conversation after Rey leaves Ach-to.
This is a stupid comparison, but it's also about what I have come to expect from the people who go out of the way to bitch about whatever Star Wars puts out that is new. It was the same shit with the prequels, and when ROTJ came out. Shit, when ESB came out too.
@@christianfaux736 it's also about writing quality, and KOTOR 2 is objectively superior.
@@dannybodros5180 thats true, I dont disagree, but thats like saying this beef wellington cooked by Gordon ramsay is better than this other meal.
No fucking shit honey! That doesn't make the other content bad.
I'm sick of seeing you people drag down the comments section of every video related to star wars with your winy batching about the new star wars. It was tired 20 years ago with the prequels and it'll be tired in 20 years with whatever the newest star wars content is.
@@christianfaux736”that doesn’t make the other content bad” it objectively is.
My fav line in this is “have you been reading the history of the blind reven.won.the.war”
Jedi Temples need a psychotherapist
Agreed.
that's how yoda sat there monopolizing the master position for 600 years
The rotten ideology of the Jedi - they claim to be the guardians of peace and justice, yet they do nothing to stop the war and the massacres. Atris is an accurate personification of that incoherence.
Great video!
Thanks. And you're right. This game took a really honest approach to the Jedi and their philosophies. Instead of how they're always hailed as default heroes. They were worried about the consequences of joining the war, without worrying about the consequences of not joining the war.
"If we don't end war, war will end us." - Herbert George Wells
The Sith are no better mind you.
Myles Asipa cough kreia
The Last Jedi was the complete opposite of that.....
@I. Th. And yet he still makes exactly the same mistakes near the end of the EU
I LOVE this part of the game, being able to absolutely knock her off her pedestal and call out the limitations of the Jedi teachings. You know shit gets real when you interrupt her dialogue
This is P E A K Star Wars.
I'm here because a pretentious schutta stole my ship.
I choose this line every time.
And I just want my Property, my Slaves and my Ship, back. Especially the Slaves.
I’m going to use this line every time
Dialogue boss battle
Love this part so much, especially after the czerka compound on telos being such a buggy mess :/
You are correct. I do not know, and neither do you.
Unironically one of the best moments in video games.
Honestly this is why KOTOR 2 is one of my favorite things in Star Wars, sans the messy ending. You can actually call the Jedi out on their shit. Their arrogance, their refusal to stray even slightly from the code, their seemingly inhuman lack of emotions and care for people (particularly during the Mandalorian Wars).
Revan's fall, the Republic's destruction, the Jedi Civil War, Malak's rise, all of it is the fault of the Jedi. And yet Atris wants to place it entirely on you and the other Jedi who wanted to save lives.
I mean, surely there are those who share fault in all of what happen. What's infuriating about the Jedi is how they pretend like it wasn't any fault of their in any way shape or form. They share responsibility just like the rest.
@@PapitoQinn That's exactly it. Sure the Mandalorian War and the ensuing Jedi Civil War wasn't entirely on the Jedi, but they played such a big role by *not* playing any role and yet they continue to act all high and mighty about it. They're, ironically, incapable of self-reflection.
This conversation with Atris always pisses me off knowing what happens with her near the end of the game because of her hypocrisy
The very first thing that comes out of her mouth is a lie. She was the one who arranged for the exile's return.
@@PapitoQinn When does the game mention that? Is it because of Kreia after the council’s meeting?
@@Oodelally In the restored content mod, it is in a conversation at the end of the game after Kreia 'kills' the exile and lets the Handmaidens take her to Atris
Ahh the memories, my chieldhood messing around with mods and discovering more to this game.
This game made by Obsidian is an example of why George got hated for the prequels( yes there were some bad dialog and other stuff) but it stiked to the story ,it experimented with concepts that connected everything in the Star Wars lore.
Taking chances by being smart and getting apreciated over time is a good thing.
Even at the end when Kreia predicts the future , the fall of the Mandalorians with Jango , the Republic rising and falling every time, and how as time passed the jedi never learned and stayed true to a dogma that makes them walking drones with no fellings.
If in the Mandalorian wars the Jedi refused to fight and those that did either fell to the darkside or left , the clone wars is the opposite were the jedi fought a war but followed their dogma blindly still never seeing the threat in front of their eyes. As I understand they always rise and fall such is the Will of the Force, and the war vs the sith.
These games would deserve their 3 part movies and a prequel like the clone wars, hell even side stories with deep meaning that add to the big picture. It is so much left to add.
Maybe one day we will have KOTOR 3 with this level of writing.
I wish they made games like this nowadays. Unfortunately all the time and money is being dumped into forgettable experiences like fortnite and call of duty
Same big corporations ruined gaming
The modern star wars games are laughable in comparison this lol
Kotor: The dark side and the light side both have their faults the Jedi Order are hypocritical and want help those in need
Jedi knight fallen order(2019): NEW STAR WARS GAME WOO HOO JEDI GOOD!!!
@@hikikimori Jedi Fallen Order is still a fun and great game and shows that we can still can get a great Star Wars game that isn't full of microtransactions (EA Battlefront) or isn't kiddie garbage (Kinect Star Wars and Lego Force Awakens). Either your nostalgia is blinding you or you haven't played the game. Although tbh, JFO isnt as deep as KOTOR and feels like a simplified version of it's story.
Also you're comparing a turn based RPG to a Dark Souls/Sekiro type action game.
@@dtxspeaks268 Battlefront 2 has no microtransactions anymore... They were patched out when the game officially launched.
@@hikikimori The only reason the Jedi are even hypocritical in KOTOR 2 is specifically because they are written to be.
The Jedi as they were envisioned by Leigh Brackett and Lawrence Kasdan were not hypocrites. Yoda and Luke did not caution against Luke saving Han and Leia because they thought the act of protecting his friends would only motivate more violence from the Empire, but because he was still learning to govern his passions and he was vulnerable to the very real and evident temptation of Darth Vader and the Dark Side of the Force. Luke learned from his failure and henceforth was less rash and less driven by his passions, but no less possessed of a righteous willingness to defend the helpless in their times of need. The Jedi in the original and sequel trilogies understood that it was counter-productive to ignore suffering simply out of an irrational fear of creating more. They understood that a Jedi did not need to attack in order to protect (An excellent example was when Luke faced down the First Order and saved the Resistance without taking a single life, while simultaneously bringing a crucial spark of hope back to the galaxy as Snoke feared he would). They understood that it was their duty to use their powers for knowledge and defense.
The Jedi in KOTOR criticize the Exile's decision to go to war because they fear the potential ramifications that giving the Mandalorians a worthy foe may cause in the future. They are so concerned with what-ifs and could-bes that they were unwilling to focus on the here and now. They feared the division within the Jedi that the Mandalorian war would create and instead of crossing that bridge when they got with it, they obsessed over that fear and allowed it to dominate them and deter them from decisive action when the Galaxy needed them. The immortal words of Master Yoda apply uncannily to the Jedi Council of KOTOR 2: "Skywalker, still looking to the horizon. Never here, now, hmm? The need in front of your nose."
Before you rashly jump at the opportunity to bash Jedi Fallen Order, you should take the time to understand the mindsets that created Jedi Fallen Order and Knights of the Old Republic. Jedi Fallen Order embraces the basic ideals that were attributed to the Jedi in the films: That the Jedi are a force for good who protect the weak and defy would-be oppressors, and that they seek to attain peace both inside and out. Knights of the Old Republic 2 was written by a writer who admitted that they held no great fondness for the Star Wars films or the ideas they promoted, and did not believe in the same ideals as George Lucas, Lawrence Kasdan or Leigh Brackett. They wrote the game the way they did because they wished to infuse the story with their own morality. This is why the Jedi are written and portrayed differently. It truly is as simple as artistic expression. Just because one is more nihilistic and less idealistic does not make it superior. You would be wise to recognize that.
There are so many great moments in this game, like zapping Vaklu's soldiers otw to the palace, but humbling the fuck out of Atris with words is my favorite part.
I loved questioning the triumph of pacifism, that was just such a solid one-liner to throw in her face.
the writing in this game puts everyone who worked on disney's trilogy to shame....a game does a better job at being star wars than a movie studio
This came out 2 years after Attack of the Clones and 1 year before Revenge of the Sith and it absolutely shits on the entire prequel trilogy.
It's almost as if this is a game, with time to flesh out characters and allows you to make dialogue options decisions. Also, Bioware went downhill...
@@Panimal98 Writing is not solely defined by quantity... George Lucas has never written this well in quantity in his entire life.
@@Connor8609 I know, but using this scene as a reference is futile, since this is a different medium. It's far superior to modern Star Wars games, but what makes this character (Atris) work is that you can uncover her hypocrisy and push it right back at her. She probably wouldn't fit as well in the films, because this is more of a debate, not an essential aspect of a story.
@@Connor8609 I'm not saying this writing ISN'T better than Disney's films, but at least use a better scene, since this is literally in a game. That's like me using panels in a comic to argue that The Killing Joke is superior to the Dark Knight. It technically is, but not for that reason alone, since it's a different medium.
One question I hoped Meetra could have asked Atris is why she designed the room they spoke in after the Jedi Council room.
The whole polar facility was meant to be a Jedi Academy. Atris planned on taking the mantle of Grand Master and rebuilding the Order exclusively with followers of her corrupted teachings.
I love this game with the exception of Atris . So condescending and stuck up .
This is the best boss battle in the game
I was replaying kotor2 for the second time and when I got to this moment I lost my shit like "HOLY SHIT I REMEMBER WRITING WAS GREAT, BUT NOT THAT LEVEL OF AMAZING"
I do agree with the Jedi Council not wanting to rush their decisions when it came to dealing with the Mandalorians, but when it became clear that Revan and Malik would march off to war without them the Council probably should've sent members to at least watch what was going on with them. They could've stopped the Jedi Civil War, or at least lessened the effects of it if they knew what was happening to them along with the other Jedi who fought in that conflict. Not to mention it is probably not a smart idea to just let a significant amount of trained Force users just go off on their own without any supervision.
I see what you mean but kreia answers that notion too. Mandalorian wars was a war of conversion, no jedi ever went back to jedi after the war, except exile. Sending masters may not change the outcome imo.
@@TheNord06 We do not know how many Masters sided with Revan to go to war against the Mandalorians but most of the dialogue appears to point out that it was mostly Knights and other junior members of the Order that went with him to war. Arren Kae is one example of a Jedi Master but she was an exile.
I am not saying that Revan wouldn't of seen past such a ploy but at least they would've been in position to report on what was happening and if needed kill Revan and Malik once it was clear what their intentions were.
I never saw the visage of Traya behind Atris as she spoke before today. Well done.
"I said I was the last of the Jedi, and I did not speak falsely", that really says everything to what's going on in Atris' mind.
The villains are Sith Lords bent on wanton destruction, and yet bitch is the most unlikable in the game.
Funny , the game is titled " The Sith Lords " yet the villains are both The Sith and The Jedi .
Well she is a Sith in disguise when you think about it
[Vrook Lamar has entered the chat]
@@HHopebringer A grouchy old geezer, but even he isn't this bad.
5:28 is my favorite quote for this vid.
I love how indignant you can be to Atris. “I see you’ve come to regret you decision and now beg for forgiveness at the feet of the last Jedi.” “The fuck you mean? I was right. About all of it. I ain’t apologizing for shit, give me my ship and my friends back.”
This part of the game has never failed to get me heated. It's like a brother and sister fighting over a toy, playing tug of war with it until it breaks. Then Atris is like look what you did!
Me?? Bitch, look what YOU did!
And still she claims to hold true to the jedi ways while mocking you and putting you down while you are trying to make amends, clearly displaying anger. She can't let go of the past, and is an utter hypocrite. Both are against the jedi ways. I love the way this game was written but god does this one part frustrate me. Clearly it's meant to portray a prime example of jedi ignorance.
Alex Blast I agree and if you play Lightside and get to the Enclave it happens all over again. Jedi hypocrisy. At this point, if I was the Exile you're like what the hell... it's the Mandalorian Wars all over again.
Seriously, i finally started playing this game recently and holy shit I wanted to punch this bitch through my computer.
You do know she’s a sith, right?
One True Vikingbard i do now
It's funny cause if you play a light side male exile, she admits she loved you and loves you still. The whole code says "no love" so there's another break
Atris is the biggest Karen in this game
I love that Revan trolls her in the novel too.
"But I will pry the truth from you, I promise you that."
You are that which has attacked the Jedi. You are Sith.
When you unwillingly meet with your psycho ex-girlfriend
A psycho girlfriend who stills loves you but won't ever admit it
Apathy is death, is the thing
"I don't like innocents dying dawg"
"Ya I don't believe you I think you've just been bullshitting for 20 years straight"
COME ON LADY!!!!!!!!!
at this point its best to relax
I remember back in the day first playing this going “why the hell is Atton asking about my lightsaber??” Then this scene I’m like 😱 “WOW” 🤤
Echo is said so much in this game that it makes my head hurt
I just realized... Why is it Kevar, Zez, Vrook make no or practically no mention of Atris at all when you meet them all individually or at the enclave?
Individually you can tell them that Atris is on Telos and they say that they thought Telos went to Katarr with the rest of the Jedi who went. As for at the enclave, I'm not sure. I guess the game pretends like they still don't know that Atris is alive. I'm not sure if was maybe something they ended up cutting from the game or if it was an oversight.
Why would the jedi mention a dark jedi as one of their allies?
@MunFurai The other "Masters" all mention that they thought she went to Katarr with the rest of the Jedi to discuss what must be done about the mystery threat that was hounding them. They thought she had died when the planet went up, but she was already in hiding when she leaked the info about the big meeting in order to lure out the Sith. Only problem was that instead of the Sith she was expecting, Nihilus showed up.
This dialogue is amazing. So much better than any movie by Disney.
I think you mean Disney star wars, because tbf Disney's animated movies are great (with the exception of sleeping beauty, alice in wonderland, their 70s and 80s stuff, chicken little, home on the range, bolt, wreck it Ralph 2, frozen 2 and that dragon movie they released).
Probably an unpopular opinion here, but I really like the design and character of Atris, I just find it facinating and the moment of her fall is my favourite in the whole game
I don't think it's an unpopular opinion. As a person, people would hate her, sure. But as a character? She served her purpose gloriously.
@@PapitoQinn It's also interesting that of all the Jedi masters she is the only one that eventually understands what the Exile truly represents and the problems with the Jedi teachings when she decides to leave the Jedi to rediscover her humanity. To choose exile like that is in a sense to follow in the exile's path. For light side ending anyway.
I have no clue what I'm looking at, other than it's some kind of a climax in a video game related to Star Wars, but god that person making the accusations is the most comedic representation of a serious person who would have decided otherwise even if you had all the facts to support your way lol (edit: in my country of finland, if you fall through the cracks without a job or education and fall down to goverment issued jobs you're gonna meet a lot of people like these supervising your income :) )
Finland employs religious fundamentalists to supervise social programs? Oh and this isn't the climax, that came later. And you find out exactly what she is.
@@PapitoQinn Act like her. Not be her lol.
At my trail i felt betrayed by vrook,and my master kavar was the one true master that i adored.
I am really curious about the Jedi council’s view on the Mandalorians and the Republic and their role in intergalactic political conflicts.
Atris never responds to any of the Exiles reasons for going to war.
Like, I can head canon so many interesting meta narratives or speculation on the greater sentient conflicts over intergalactic governments or cultures and how the Force can & ought to be harnessed or abstained…
My main question to Atris and to the institution of the Jedi Council: Is Mandalorian conquest a net neutral for galactic security and well-being versus Republic hegemony?
My question to the Exile: Are the Mandalorians really just savages that kill and pillage defenceless innocents?
You just know she "reminded herself of passions" with that lightsaber every now and then... or often.
HA! That sound dangerous.
I blame Atris for why Jedi are what they are. She's the main reason why their rules and code is so fucked up.
She makes Mace Windu, a Jedi that I have a huge amount of disdain and contempt for look like a saint by comparison.
Every word that comes out of Atris' mouth is full of self-righteousness and hypocrisy when she didn't even bother to notice it.
So glad that Luke in legends changed those rules.
Mace Windu was literally right about everything. I’m sorry you can’t accept that.
@@zico739 sure he was bud. Sure he was.
Bastilia was my teacher and trained me
While there are people who are rightly frustrated with her, I have a good theory as to why they are frustrated... It's because there are people like her in real life; delusional people who think they can decide the motives of others. Sure, people can lie about motives, and we can speculate whether or not what they say is true, but we should not say that our opinion about others is pure fact. There's awful Christians out there who think the LGBT people are abusers or that they can change their sexuality or even change others' sexuality. It's truly vile to condemn the innocent because of your hatred.
I got to this scene for the first time a few days ago. The level of writing for this scene alone is fantastic.
I don’t care what anybody says but Atris’ music is gold. Too bad you don’t hear it that much. Atris, the Lord Of Denial.
Accuse you of killing the miners and blowing up the facility and planet even though you are cleared of the killing of miners. What a b.
The relation with Atris feels more Natural if the Exile was a Male
How so?
@@DBArtsCreators because as a male exile it's heavily implied that she was in love with the exile and her hatred to the exile makes more sense she was betrayed by the one man she loved.
@@delta2372
Again, how so?
Look at what lengths Carth goes to over the man who betrayed him. How is a female Exile's unintentional betrayal of Atris (as a role model and effective 'sister' to Atris) any less believable?
@@DBArtsCreators I understand where you are coming from from but to me allot more things make sense of the exile is a male, I do not like that they assigned genders to revan and the exile instead of leaving it open for interpretation like it was BEFORE TOR but, based on certain things in both games though it seems like both revan and exile where originally both supposed to be male.
Plus kreia getting back to the telos academy makes zero sense if you are female and don't have the handmaiden as a party member who btw is a much better character than that boring ass lame disciple.
@@delta2372
I can understand not like assigned genders, but the story demands such in order to be told and continued (plus, Revan and Exile were confirmed as male and female respectively years before TOR was even a thing). What 'certain things' do you feel push for a canon male Exile?
On the topic of Kreia getting back to the academy - three notes: (1) Handmaiden was supposed to be a party member for both genders originally. The gender difference was a last minute change; (2) Atris sending the echani to Dantooine to subdue the Exile (and them then grabbing Kreia) is in-keeping with Atris's tendency to have others do her dirty work; (3) neither event makes a lot of sense (why do they come onboard the Ebon Hawk when they don't actually take the Ebon Hawk back to Telos?)
I love everytime i win this argument against her
The Jedi's greatest teaching is not failure (Disney Star Wars), it's hypocrisy.
Atris is no jedi
no matter what she says to the contrary
She got almost the entire order killed by luring Nilhuls to the planet. Glad Traya called her out for her hypocrisy
Careful Atris Anger Leads To The Darkside
But our bond was always the threat because i loved bastilia like a sister...wanda
Exile DESTROYS Atris with FACTS and LOGIC
Watch as t3 shows us the records he pulls from atris database lol ❤❤❤❤
But she was right to exile me at that time!!!❤❤❤❤
How can She be so blind?
Jedi Kool-Aid
@@PapitoQinn She is all that’s wrong with the jedi order. The hypocresy, the arrogance, the will to remain the same without any change, the “inquisitor”…
In many cases the jedi order is like the church. Many people within the church are good persons, but there are many bad people and the power structure is corrupt.
Can someone make a doujin of that scene ?
PLEASE !
It took me years to trully understand the politics of star wars. It's like a mirror image of our own IRL. George Lucas must have been a political scholar among other things.
Perhaps, but with Star Wars traditionally presenting the Jedi and Republic as good and the Sith and galactic empire as bad. It comes down to the individual that decides which political party or where on the political spectrum 'good' and 'bad' reside. KOTOR 2 explored the idea of not disregarding valuable teachings, no matter the origin.
Papito Qinn, they often demonize what they don't understand. Then they accuse everyone else of being devoid of empathy. Politics are crammed full of ironic, hypocritical, pseudoscience like that. Mainly originating from the left-wing or Democrats and libertarians. The right-wing is traditional, conservative and they don't define reality with politically correct jargan. Allot of right-wing ideology makes perfect sense but of coarse, some ideas offend minorities and the virtuous and such.
Lord Nytris I'm not American, so I don't know what it's like being in a country limited to only 2 political parties. But from the information I've gathered from it, no matter the party affiliation, both sides are guilty many similar things, corruption, ignoring reality to further agenda or thirst for power, doing the bidding of corporations over the will of the people, war, the list goes on. But these actions are indicative of individuals and not entire political parties. One thing I notice a lot of Americans do is treat their politics like it's a football game. They support their parties AKA their 'teams'. Which is why politicians make ads attacking their opponents instead of talking about policies they'll implement and why it's the right thing to do. But at the end of the day, both sides have ideas that shouldn't be ignored due to its origins. People can only listen and go forward with what makes sense to them. People shouldn't be afraid of being proven wrong either. It's better to be wrong now and be right later. Being offended is a human thing, but I do agree that sometimes I see it over what I consider to be minor things. I mostly don't engage them, but when I do I try to understand why they feel the way they do. If I disagree then I explain why. I 'know' I'm right, so I'm not afraid to present my arguments. Sometimes I do convince them, and that's a much bigger victory then antagonizing them. In the last presidential election, a lot of people on both sides just called each other names instead of actually debating. Insults never awaken people to your truth, it just strengthens the belief they have in theirs.
Technically Lucas didn't write this, Chris Avellone did and it's a wonderfully complex interaction.
Papito Qinn You've convinced someone before? I've had debates with people both on the internet and in real life for years, never have I convinced someone even when they have no argument to counter the points I make. The best I've gotten are half wins, where they agree with some points I make but make it sound like it definitely wasn't I who convinced them.
Lol😂😂😂😂😂😂
Jesus, she is so cold and condescending. I always played it as a male, it made more sense to me that she’s so mad at you because she loves you. Her anger towards you really is just her deflecting her own self guilt/loathing.
Atris: Blinded by dogma, corrupted by love, so snotty just like Bastila “Sexy Snotty Lovely Miss Battle Meditation” Shan, loving to blame the Sonik (meaning hybrid of Jedi Exile and Sonic The Hedgehog) for everything (s)he didn’t do
Kreia: Stephanie Hawking (meaning female Stephen Hawking) but without synthesizers and without wheelchairs, brutally cunning, and freeing religions from corruption and dogma
Milo Surik (my Jedi Exile interpretation): A feral warrior, Semi-Light Sided heart, Kreia’s Kounsel in an anthropomorphic sentient form
Canonical Jedi Exile/Meetra Surik: pacifistic, consumed by dogma, gullible enough to turn on Kreia, and bragging with whatever Scarlett Johansson-like Bounty huntress who travels with her
Vrook Lamar: so senile and pompous that he loves to cut everyone off from the Force whether they like it or not
Kreaia ask her to exile me and she did in fear of kreaia she was jealous of me and kreaia because kreaia was a dark lord she had an academy called Darth Trayras she was a sith just like atris is a dark lord to as well ❤❤❤❤but they blamed me and exiled me because of her fear of kreaia killing her if she didn't exile me 😂😂❤❤❤❤so she did it in fear of traya really kreaia ❤❤❤❤Love Angelique Flay
Wow! If Disney remakes KotOR TSL, they should redeem Kreia, and then Vrook Lamar, Kavar, and Zez-Kai Ell would welcome back Meetra Surik. They should also have Atris joining the Sith and plotting to start false Jedi teachings in attempt to turn Meetra Surik to the dark side. They should also have Kreia instead of losing her hand, she has a lightsaber at the beginning and then it breaks, along with Kreia, escaping Sion. Then they should add a ceremony along with Meetra Surik finally kissing Atton, with the Jedi Masters (including Vrook Lamar and Force Ghost Atris crying) thanking Meetra for stopping the Sith, and for the Redemption Of Kreia.
NO! Kreia is one of the best star wars villains. Dont give Di$ney any ideas to F up a beloved story.
Mfw obsidian did what The Last Jedi TRIED do in showing the failing ideology of the Jedi, successfully 12 years prior.
13 years*
She was a very close jedi we were very close at one point and time like sisters and it hurt her to see me fall this is why she is Angry at me because i am a true palpatine the emperor's niece in which she is so angry because i hurt her badly so i was exiled for my own good at that time ❤❤❤❤by Angelique Flay
Then ahe goes with me in the eban hawk as we leave taris as Breanna ❤❤❤we are still close like sister's ❤❤❤❤🎉🎉😂😂😂
The one thing that annoyed me about this game was the amount of times the word Echo was used, literally every goddamn talk you have, its there
Screwing with Atris is very fun. The biggest hypocrite in the game! Even more than Vrook, which is saying something. She scolds the Exile for going to war and killing people, yet she says the Exile should be executed.
Wife.
This is one of many things that Obsidian and Chris Avellone shows how to make an RPG game. I liked the game until that moment but loved the game after debating Atris.
Nowadays i dont want any KOTOR remake because there is a cult going on that destroyes franchises with their weak, untalented writers who only hides identity politics and feminist power fantasy.
If any KOTOR remake would change this scene where Atris (AKA strong women) would win this confrontation by changing the players choices into stupid lines...
I just hope KOTOR would be protected from this cult...
Angry jedi feminist gets triggered (kotor 2 edition)
No matter the gender Atris sounds like an ex-girlfriend who cannot get over the fact you left her
The Mandalorian Wars reminds me of the war on Iraq and Atris is right the Jedi should have waited for a plan instead of rushing into war and that's why we failed in Iraq because we didn't have a plan we just rushed into war that cost trillions.
And Revan trying to justify his reasons lead to another war.
Can't compare a fictional conflict with a real world event that have nothing in common when you look at the context of them.
Iraqis were not invading other countries and killing innocents to provoke a war with another country just for the fun of it.
Context matters a lot, and this is a false equivalence.
There is no WAY the Iraq War has any similarities to the Mandalorian Wars, dude. You gotta be shitting me.
In defense of Revan and the Revanchist Jedi that followed him into battle, the Mandalorians started attacking worlds outside of the Republic to amass resources THEN attacked the Republic, which devastated many worlds. The Senate asked the Jedi to help but the Council decreed no Jedi is to take part... until Revan and his fellow Jedi left the Order to help the Republic.
Secondly, there was no false flag operation or the possibility of one regarding the Mandalorian Wars.
Ugh I grow weary of this
???
The Mandalorian Wars were nothing like the War in Iraq. The Mandalorians were the AGGRESSORS. Mandalore and the Republic were already at war. Billions of innocent people were dying as the Mandalorians ravaged their worlds. The Council was wrong to refuse to intervene.