Hope this is an okay place to say how freaking happy I am to see Wolf and Valdes casting worlds together. Having the old Proleague casting duo back together again brings back so much nostalgia. Casting Inno in 2015 and now his younger brother Gumayusi in 2021 is just the cherry on top.
@@MagonTheConqueror probably just outcompeted by current talent. She's good, no doubt, but so's the rest of lec cast. Ppl love em. So you either pay more people for basically the same thing you're already doing damn well enough as is, or you swap someone out for her. Now who do u knock out to make space for her in the current talent setup?
@@nunyabizz3357 After reading a little bit about her I saw that she actually always wanted to do the interviews, inspired by Sjokz. So my comment doesn’t make much sense. Though honestly they could just have one day when maybe Dash takes over main desk, Sjokz does interviews and Laure interacts with analysts/gives her opinion. No need to remove anyone IMO
@@MagonTheConqueror i was more so reffering to the LEC being kind of optimized talent wise. No sense fixing what aint broken and all Definitely agree that Worlds is a great opportunity to give audiences a taste of her style in a different setting, since they're experimenting with talent combinations anyway.
The alleged matchfixing they allude to at 3:25:00 is 99% OGN 2014 when SKT S and SKT K were in the same group and SKT S dropped an easy game to help SKT K qualify. Riot immediately disbanded sister teams the next season.
I mean that’s possible but if you actually watch the games where SKT S lost to prime, Prime actually played pretty well and SKT S did seem like they were trying it’s didn’t look like a throw though it was really suspicious but it’s possible. I think what Montes alluding to is more serious levels of match fixing for like money at the end of a season on low level teams so they could at least get some money
35:30 in 2017 Longzhu Gaming went 6-0 in groups. That was one of my favorite teams of all time. Peak Khan on Jayce, Bdd was the next Faker, Pray & Gorilla bot lane. Took down SKT in LCK Summer Finals. In fairness they had an EXTREMELY easy group that year, but still worth mentioning.
SK was accused of match-fixing, but the case was buried because it was sponsored by the nation's largest company, from the StarCraft League to the League of Legends. However, SK has been continuously offered advantages from leagues and associations and has always been assigned good games. The benefits are still being made.
ngl I was excited for worlds as a 100t fan but after hearing freeze's comments about their expectations around the team I'm already bracing myself for disappointment
Its really hard to get invested in a team as a fan when a literal coach of the team is talking about tempered expectation and expecting to do poorly. Like come on man, hype your team up instead of looking for excuses before the games have even begun.
@@rainbowremo1 Tbh whilst I dislike that attitude as well, can you blame them? NA has literally shown terrible results year after year internationally. The only exception being C9 kind of. Having tempered expectations is kind of understandable, rather than hyping the fuck out of your own players. Know what all that hype did for TSM last year? Absolute ridicule and harrasament after their 0-6 run in groups. NA is no longer part of the top regions group lol. Its literally between CN, EU and KR the last three years. The underdog mentality is honestly better. But I do agree with the crux of your point, the 100T coach played it wayyyyy too safe. Like he was ready to call their losses and come back home. At least say that they will do their best, try to get out of groups. The defeatist attitude is just terrible.
Dont be dissapointed. 100T have the best chance of any NA team to escape groups. T1 just have to bottle 1-2 games fora tie breaker to happen, and T1 is definitely going to throw a couple of games.
I wouldn't be. Cloud 9 showed they can compete at an international level. Sure they lost to Pentanet, but they beat #1 KR, CN, and EU. I wouldn't favor 100T, but they're not a pushover as most people believe. In fact, NA teams outside of TSM and Clutch that one year have never been pushovers and top teams have to respect them because dropping games against them affects groups standings.
In China they already have a fictional esports show. It's even a romance between a star ADC and a female Mid Laner. I think it's called Falling Into Your Smile or something
Sounds like Dylan didn't actually watch all EDG series in playoffs. If you only watched the finals then JieJie will look way way better to you than he would if you'd watched the entire playoffs.
@@nguyentri3608 Scout + JieJie being the best mid + jungle duo was the most odd thing for me there. Showmaker + Canyon is legitimately the only reason DWG is an S-tier team. In general I can't judge how good junglers are very well but his take seemed to be based on the finals.
Dylan insight into EU teams was great... but his takes on other regions looked like quotes from reddit tbh. Especially compared to the other guests. Disappointing compared to the other guests on the show, it's pretty clear he hasn't watched much from the other regions other than summer semi finals / finals? Like if you're gonna use the narrative argument of "EU top teams were better than lower KR teams in the last couple of worlds" at least do the same for Korea and point out that they almost always do well in group and get out of groups, for the last like 8 years. And the take on Jiejie and Scout being the best mid jungler in the world... Copium?
What's interesting regarding the top laners this tournament. The strongest ones are likely all LPL with Flandre, Xiaohu, Ale, Nuguri. And 3 out of the 4 there are actually ethnically Chinese and Nuguri might actually not be the best (based on his recent form though he's absolutely trending up now)
As much as I respect Thorin and Monte: That "You should look what the meta is and then, after MSI, build your final roster" narrative is so stupid. 1st: Who is going to sell you a good player, that fits into the meta? Schalke, when they need the money to save their soccer squad. That should be an exceptional situation. 2nd: You need to build a roster, that works well together, no matter the meta. Best example: The difference between G2 with Perkz and G2 with Rekkles is not the meta. Then you have 9 months to teach your team how to play in the Meta in general. Put in place basic communication and play style patterns, plus 2 months to solve the World Patch. And teach your players, how to play this iteration of the game. Whoever does this the best, wins Worlds. 3 famous examples: Jankos constantly complained to Riot about funnel and Sejuani in the jungle. But he played it anyhow, because it was the most efficient way to play the game. And Faker played Lulu in the Worlds Final in 2015. Probably not, because he wanted to, but because the coaches convinced him, that this is the best was to play. Samsung/GenG went to back to back World Finals with the same roster in extremely different metas, because they did the "Figure out, how to play the World Patch" thing best in back to back years.
To be fair, regardless if 100T do well or not, I can't see how you could consider them an NA team.They actively (and probably purposely) try to cut any ties with American social/work culture, which worked well for them in terms of results. They have zero NA players and even support staff is mainly imported. I don't know what's the point of region comparing narratives and discussions anymore if this is how it's going to look. Stop this narrative bs or stop saying that a fully imported team supposed to represent the skill of a region (in this case NA). I would imagine in the future more teams in LCS will be similarly structured, which will make it even more stupid. The same actually applies for Team Liquid at the moment, I don't see how you could consider them a represantation of NA skill. Also, don't give me these arguments like "it was always like that with America so it's fine"; "It's all about diversity here, where people from all over the world come here, It's a melting pot" or "It doesn't matter where the players are from." - Sorry but this is not about nationality at all (I don't care about those stuff), it's about where the players (and coaches) honed their skill and it's not in NA. Remember that Riot itself set this global structure and narrative around regions (it's not fans' idea); they set it up like this themselves, so either they should stick to it or change it, and not display this weird in-between state that doesn't make sense. Actually, I think that in CSGO the community made it simple and it works quite well. They just tag a given team in terms of region by simply looking at where the majority of players come from. And in case where the roster comes from multiple regions - they are just a multi-regional team (let's say EU-OCE) - as simple as that.
@@fbiagent6456 That's fair, I didn't try to compare. I just wanted to propose a simpler idea of portraying team's affinity to a region; something to have a better picture, more aligned with reality of where a team's strength actually comes from. If we want to keep this inter-regional competitive structure and narratives around it, we cannot possibly treat a team that clearly takes all their skill/talent outside of NA as a representative of their region - that's ridiculous; what would be the point of comparing that region to others? That's my main issue. We could also go the other way, make the import restrictions more "strict", or rather how it used be: the majority 3/5 of a team have to be NA players, and I mean actual NA players, not this grandfathering, green card bs artificially prompting up NA. Then it's fair enough again to compare the strenghts of regions.
bruh gotta disagree.... this whole year wolf and I think valdez was super biased against t1 every game, even when picking playoffs and everything.. Even in the commentating of the game... i watched every single game LOL there was a clear reason why they said he was biased even when t1 was actually doing well. BUT... i still enjoy his commentary and view on the game besides that LOL.
TL is clearly the team cancelling scrims, they have a lot of access to the KR teams through CoreJJ and Kold isn't that experienced a coach, I can see him capitulating to egotistical star players like Jensen and Alphari if they're getting fisted over and over.
100T is clearly the team cancelling scrims, they have a lot of access to the KR teams through Ssumday and Huhi and Freeze isn't that experienced a coach, I can see him capitulating to egotistical star players like Abeddagge or Closer if they're getting fisted over and over.
@@brunococcia1126 C9 is clearly the team cancelling scrims, they have a lot of access to the KR teams through Reignover and Mithy isn't that experienced a coach, I can see him capitulating to egoistical star players like Zven and Perkz if they're getting fisted over and over.
@@IgnacioCentu96 now he is wrong for 2 years to not riding Korean hype train as rest of the casters/guests back then. He is pretty much brainwashed by the narrative "LPL teams are going to demolish everything, LEC comes in 2nd and LCK is so far behind of LPL and LEC except DK."
Hope this is an okay place to say how freaking happy I am to see Wolf and Valdes casting worlds together. Having the old Proleague casting duo back together again brings back so much nostalgia.
Casting Inno in 2015 and now his younger brother Gumayusi in 2021 is just the cherry on top.
Worlds darkhorse seems to be Laure, Damn her analysis was top tier! LEC should use her for the desk way more!
Always love the worlds mega episodes, really appreciate both of yours insights, wish you both got more respect from the scene!
HOLY SHIT Laure is pretty good on analysis, i would like to see her more on desk rather than just interviews.
Or like she says.... intraviews
Probably a victim of being good looking, in a way
@@MagonTheConqueror probably just outcompeted by current talent. She's good, no doubt, but so's the rest of lec cast.
Ppl love em.
So you either pay more people for basically the same thing you're already doing damn well enough as is, or you swap someone out for her.
Now who do u knock out to make space for her in the current talent setup?
@@nunyabizz3357 After reading a little bit about her I saw that she actually always wanted to do the interviews, inspired by Sjokz. So my comment doesn’t make much sense.
Though honestly they could just have one day when maybe Dash takes over main desk, Sjokz does interviews and Laure interacts with analysts/gives her opinion. No need to remove anyone IMO
@@MagonTheConqueror i was more so reffering to the LEC being kind of optimized talent wise.
No sense fixing what aint broken and all
Definitely agree that Worlds is a great opportunity to give audiences a taste of her style in a different setting, since they're experimenting with talent combinations anyway.
WAIT the thoorin vs shaq thing was absolutely epic holy shit how did i never know about this?!?! LEGENDARY!
Laure was sooo good. LEC kind of not taking full advantage of her skills and knowledge. Could be doing much more.
I can only imagine how Nymaera popped off, when DFM beat C9
There was a lot of screaming involved
Spoiler: Nymaera's currently a hundred thousand in debt because he splurged on Cristal after DFM won the group
love wolf's insight, guy's a chad
Great episode as always lads. Wolf is awesome, insane how I've followed him through several game titles haha.
Laure was a brilliant guest. I did not expect that.
Im a TSM fan that loves thorin and monte, they live in my head rent free.
Still the best LoL-podcast no contest.
Still watching the episode but loved to hear Laure's thoughts. She contributed very well to the conversation and knew her stuff.
All lck casters deserved mad respect.
The alleged matchfixing they allude to at 3:25:00 is 99% OGN 2014 when SKT S and SKT K were in the same group and SKT S dropped an easy game to help SKT K qualify. Riot immediately disbanded sister teams the next season.
I mean that’s possible but if you actually watch the games where SKT S lost to prime, Prime actually played pretty well and SKT S did seem like they were trying it’s didn’t look like a throw though it was really suspicious but it’s possible.
I think what Montes alluding to is more serious levels of match fixing for like money at the end of a season on low level teams so they could at least get some money
The alleged matchfixing is clearly a hint to FPX dropping out of this years groups
Upset had to go home for family emergency so Fnatic probably doomed.
35:30 in 2017 Longzhu Gaming went 6-0 in groups. That was one of my favorite teams of all time. Peak Khan on Jayce, Bdd was the next Faker, Pray & Gorilla bot lane. Took down SKT in LCK Summer Finals.
In fairness they had an EXTREMELY easy group that year, but still worth mentioning.
2 minutes in and Thorin is already… well being Thorin
He is like the villain we love to hate because he states facts
SK was accused of match-fixing, but the case was buried because it was sponsored by the nation's largest company, from the StarCraft League to the League of Legends. However, SK has been continuously offered advantages from leagues and associations and has always been assigned good games. The benefits are still being made.
I needed this. Monte is the best
Alex Hapgod you little beauty.. Top bloke.
Laure did a good job and it was nice to see Freeze again.
Listening to you guys talk about crypto is like listening to redditors talk about league. Great content as always tho!
Love the content been here since the start you two have always had the best league content, shame riot fucked Monte much missed in the lck
Lets Go BRANDON!!!!!!!
watching esports its like watching the same movie over and over again.
Monte saying you dont know what the use cases are for Ethereum is. Then lining up several use cases for Rally built on Ethereum haha
great guests
57:46 3:24:44
1:38:00 1:44:35 2:20:19
such good podcast
ngl I was excited for worlds as a 100t fan but after hearing freeze's comments about their expectations around the team I'm already bracing myself for disappointment
Its really hard to get invested in a team as a fan when a literal coach of the team is talking about tempered expectation and expecting to do poorly. Like come on man, hype your team up instead of looking for excuses before the games have even begun.
@@rainbowremo1 Tbh whilst I dislike that attitude as well, can you blame them? NA has literally shown terrible results year after year internationally. The only exception being C9 kind of. Having tempered expectations is kind of understandable, rather than hyping the fuck out of your own players. Know what all that hype did for TSM last year? Absolute ridicule and harrasament after their 0-6 run in groups. NA is no longer part of the top regions group lol. Its literally between CN, EU and KR the last three years. The underdog mentality is honestly better. But I do agree with the crux of your point, the 100T coach played it wayyyyy too safe. Like he was ready to call their losses and come back home. At least say that they will do their best, try to get out of groups. The defeatist attitude is just terrible.
@@dominiosss1474 Reapered will belt them later so alg
Dont be dissapointed. 100T have the best chance of any NA team to escape groups. T1 just have to bottle 1-2 games fora tie breaker to happen, and T1 is definitely going to throw a couple of games.
I wouldn't be. Cloud 9 showed they can compete at an international level. Sure they lost to Pentanet, but they beat #1 KR, CN, and EU. I wouldn't favor 100T, but they're not a pushover as most people believe. In fact, NA teams outside of TSM and Clutch that one year have never been pushovers and top teams have to respect them because dropping games against them affects groups standings.
Yo I got that Overwatch League Rascal reference
2:47:08 this is why I watch summoning insight
LCK teams should pre-order Korean food online before worlds, and have it set to ship to their worlds address.
In China they already have a fictional esports show. It's even a romance between a star ADC and a female Mid Laner. I think it's called Falling Into Your Smile or something
I need to know the LCS player who went nuts 😂 my guess is Gleeb
It is tragedy that Upsets had family issue and need to went back
I like bacon.
oof.. the thorin debuff is real?.. first perkz.. now odo? :x..
About Maoan, word is it was not a "friend", but a catfish. Based purely on a clip from Caedrel's stream. So, yeah......
Mad will be the only non Asian team to get out groups. that my "hot take"
Sounds like Dylan didn't actually watch all EDG series in playoffs. If you only watched the finals then JieJie will look way way better to you than he would if you'd watched the entire playoffs.
Actual BASED take, I can't believe people are placing jiejie so fucking high on their list when he has literally the best bot lane in the world
Also Flandre stepped up a lot in Summer. I can see the tunnel vision on Jiejie when Tian mental boomed in the finals.
@@nguyentri3608 Scout + JieJie being the best mid + jungle duo was the most odd thing for me there. Showmaker + Canyon is legitimately the only reason DWG is an S-tier team. In general I can't judge how good junglers are very well but his take seemed to be based on the finals.
@@raginhawk8506 I feel like Scout + Meiko were better than DoinB + Crisp in finals aswell. That helps quite a bit I'd say.
Dylan insight into EU teams was great... but his takes on other regions looked like quotes from reddit tbh. Especially compared to the other guests.
Disappointing compared to the other guests on the show, it's pretty clear he hasn't watched much from the other regions other than summer semi finals / finals?
Like if you're gonna use the narrative argument of "EU top teams were better than lower KR teams in the last couple of worlds" at least do the same for Korea and point out that they almost always do well in group and get out of groups, for the last like 8 years.
And the take on Jiejie and Scout being the best mid jungler in the world... Copium?
We need more Laure!
Opposed to some people here, I've figuerd out that Laure is great analyst some time earlier, but yea, she is amazing!
What's interesting regarding the top laners this tournament. The strongest ones are likely all LPL with Flandre, Xiaohu, Ale, Nuguri. And 3 out of the 4 there are actually ethnically Chinese and Nuguri might actually not be the best (based on his recent form though he's absolutely trending up now)
Damn 10 seconds over 3:33:33
As much as I respect Thorin and Monte: That "You should look what the meta is and then, after MSI, build your final roster" narrative is so stupid.
1st: Who is going to sell you a good player, that fits into the meta? Schalke, when they need the money to save their soccer squad. That should be an exceptional situation.
2nd: You need to build a roster, that works well together, no matter the meta. Best example: The difference between G2 with Perkz and G2 with Rekkles is not the meta.
Then you have 9 months to teach your team how to play in the Meta in general. Put in place basic communication and play style patterns, plus 2 months to solve the World Patch. And teach your players, how to play this iteration of the game. Whoever does this the best, wins Worlds.
3 famous examples: Jankos constantly complained to Riot about funnel and Sejuani in the jungle. But he played it anyhow, because it was the most efficient way to play the game.
And Faker played Lulu in the Worlds Final in 2015. Probably not, because he wanted to, but because the coaches convinced him, that this is the best was to play.
Samsung/GenG went to back to back World Finals with the same roster in extremely different metas, because they did the "Figure out, how to play the World Patch" thing best in back to back years.
A world full of Travis Gafford without a Richard Lewis LMFAO 3:26:00
@1:27:00 Thorin confusing Luther and Lucifer...
Freeze was not mvp in tcl finals. They were lose to sup at finals and it was bot lane diff :(
Ça fait bizarre d'entendre Laure parler que Anglais et avec Thorin en plus. ^^. Salutations de Bretagne.
To be fair, regardless if 100T do well or not, I can't see how you could consider them an NA team.They actively (and probably purposely) try to cut any ties with American social/work culture, which worked well for them in terms of results. They have zero NA players and even support staff is mainly imported. I don't know what's the point of region comparing narratives and discussions anymore if this is how it's going to look. Stop this narrative bs or stop saying that a fully imported team supposed to represent the skill of a region (in this case NA). I would imagine in the future more teams in LCS will be similarly structured, which will make it even more stupid. The same actually applies for Team Liquid at the moment, I don't see how you could consider them a represantation of NA skill.
Also, don't give me these arguments like "it was always like that with America so it's fine"; "It's all about diversity here, where people from all over the world come here, It's a melting pot" or "It doesn't matter where the players are from." - Sorry but this is not about nationality at all (I don't care about those stuff), it's about where the players (and coaches) honed their skill and it's not in NA. Remember that Riot itself set this global structure and narrative around regions (it's not fans' idea); they set it up like this themselves, so either they should stick to it or change it, and not display this weird in-between state that doesn't make sense.
Actually, I think that in CSGO the community made it simple and it works quite well. They just tag a given team in terms of region by simply looking at where the majority of players come from. And in case where the roster comes from multiple regions - they are just a multi-regional team (let's say EU-OCE) - as simple as that.
You are wrong comparing lol to csgo. Lol has regional leagues while cs go hasnt, two different competitive infrastructure.
@@fbiagent6456 That's fair, I didn't try to compare. I just wanted to propose a simpler idea of portraying team's affinity to a region; something to have a better picture, more aligned with reality of where a team's strength actually comes from. If we want to keep this inter-regional competitive structure and narratives around it, we cannot possibly treat a team that clearly takes all their skill/talent outside of NA as a representative of their region - that's ridiculous; what would be the point of comparing that region to others? That's my main issue. We could also go the other way, make the import restrictions more "strict", or rather how it used be: the majority 3/5 of a team have to be NA players, and I mean actual NA players, not this grandfathering, green card bs artificially prompting up NA. Then it's fair enough again to compare the strenghts of regions.
Where's sheepy?
Out of the tournament
Pretty sad for FNC they got the easiest group - they had a good chance to get out
Let's fucking go!
bruh gotta disagree.... this whole year wolf and I think valdez was super biased against t1 every game, even when picking playoffs and everything.. Even in the commentating of the game... i watched every single game LOL there was a clear reason why they said he was biased even when t1 was actually doing well. BUT... i still enjoy his commentary and view on the game besides that LOL.
TL is clearly the team cancelling scrims, they have a lot of access to the KR teams through CoreJJ and Kold isn't that experienced a coach, I can see him capitulating to egotistical star players like Jensen and Alphari if they're getting fisted over and over.
100T is clearly the team cancelling scrims, they have a lot of access to the KR teams through Ssumday and Huhi and Freeze isn't that experienced a coach, I can see him capitulating to egotistical star players like Abeddagge or Closer if they're getting fisted over and over.
@@brunococcia1126 B A N T E R
@@brunococcia1126 C9 is clearly the team cancelling scrims, they have a lot of access to the KR teams through Reignover and Mithy isn't that experienced a coach, I can see him capitulating to egoistical star players like Zven and Perkz if they're getting fisted over and over.
HoN was best shit ever
Hahaha why these noobs think I'm an skt fan...lol...noobs:) oh btw remember that one memorable thing I did regarding skt hypetrain? Love you Monte.
Nope. It was the KOREAN hypetrain, and he was right for several years later too
@@IgnacioCentu96 now he is wrong for 2 years to not riding Korean hype train as rest of the casters/guests back then. He is pretty much brainwashed by the narrative "LPL teams are going to demolish everything, LEC comes in 2nd and LCK is so far behind of LPL and LEC except DK."
I'm short Eth 3625 let's go dump
Rip eu, that's all im gonna say.
Upset had to swim home for groups. Wtf. FNC probs not getting out.
So about fnatic
Nice video
I wonder when will eu win their first worlds even if by a luck
I hate riot so much it's unreal
FNC won S1
Fnatic won a fake worlds, with no korean or chinese teams
LULW X