Jojopyun's expectations on EG; Rogue shifts style - Summoning Insight S5E2 (feat. Peter Dun)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 ก.ค. 2024
- Summoning Insight is the premier League of Legends esports talk show and podcast.
Join MonteCristo and Thorin with guest Peter Dun, head coach of Evil Geniuses, as they discuss EG's method of roster construction, jojopyun's promising start, Cloud9's unconventional strategies, Rogue's undefeated first round-robin, MAD Lions' roster changes, and more.
This episode was filmed on February 7th, 2022.
Come join the Insight on Esports Discord for in-depth discussion across esports: / discord
0:00:00 - EG's new roster
0:44:30 - Cloud9
0:51:48 - TSM
1:03:38 - Dignitas + veteran players
1:11:15 - Team Liquid
1:28:38 - Evolution of the meta
1:47:36 - Rogue
1:55:36 - Team Vitality
2:05:17 - Contenders for the LEC title
2:27:17 - Live crowds at events
2:32:49 - Can Rogue win the split?
2:39:16 - Thoughts on "The Best Damn League Show."
2:40:39 - Classic literature recommendations
2:43:37 - Worlds winners vs a superteam
2:45:23 - Funniest first impressions of players
2:49:23 - How do you improve your on-camera skillset?
2:50:57 - Doublelift's new show
2:52:27 - Thoughts on the new C9 roster
2:56:54 - Least favorite champion
2:59:02 - NFL and Tom Brady
#LCS
#LoLEsports
#LoLPodcast - เกม
Peter Dun is the absolute goat at just not saying anything during the crazy parts. That man isn’t losing his career for nothing
That's why he's back and Bwipo is banned forever.
@@Shadyshooter I'm pretty sure it's what bwipo said after the episode that got him banned. But I may be wrong or misunderstood you.
@@Rusty_Justice what did he say
@@OMAR-vk9pi IIRC there were some things said about Korean players on crackdown that were retroactively deemed offensive by reddit and social media. Bwipo made a twit longer which threw Dom and Thoorin under the bus to save face and was subsequently banned (unofficially?) from Thoorin's podcasts. This is all from memory and with some pro thoorin+Dom bias so take it with a grain of salt
@@Rusty_Justice it's basically what happened ye
Always enjoy Peter on Talkshows. One of the best possible guests ever.
peter dun is always an absolute treat to listen to. one of my favourite coaches
The way Thorin drops those one-liners then sits back with that satisfied smirk lmao
That damn smile
That’s his thing
The Peter Dun episodes are always super interesting, one of the best guests.
Worst*
@@projectmanhattan3783 What are you smoking mate
The Stutter eps.
litearlly the best episodes are always with Peter , the three of them work so well together.
"best" episodes if you intend to NEVER get anything useful from the guest. He is so full of BS he should get american citizenship for free.
I think people are vastly misunderstanding LS’s philosophy on league. He is not a hard line “enchanters and scaling” guy. He is just intelligent at drafting and understands the Rock Paper Scissors nature of leagues champions, and if YOU try to play enchanters/scaling against them, he’s going to draft the counter to it. People are seriously misreading his philosophy in these first two games, and I think it’s going to surprise people when the weeks go by and they realize that he’s not just obsessed with scaling and enchanters.
Based
yeah people think he's just playing enchanters mid cuz they're strong rn but he's picking them to counter the opponents' themes of having "going in" champs. He probably has like dozens of other pockets he could pick into depending on what the opponent is expected to pick. We still haven't seen the majority of the LS picks we were expecting like seraphine, cho, illaoi, karthus, kindred, etc. We have really only seen a tiny percentage of what LS and c9 could do
no u are vastly misunderstanding him
i mean even if u think of his saint and sinner concept it basically comes from the idea that early game champs have to sin and get hugely ahead while saint champs can scale up and be strong regardless of early
he is maybe not a hardline enchanter guy but for sure a hardliner when it comes to scaling. I mean he basically thinks if u can scale and outscale the enemy with matchups that dont mess u up too much, then why even try to sin and go for early game. His drafting idea is also kinda inspired by skt which traditionally was a scaling team building exodia comps.
True but I think he does really favour the macro style though from his lck and broodwar background. He knows that a solid defense into scaling is the easiest way to win.
@@dwasdasdasdads the misconception is that his idea of scaling is inevitability, not the narrow definition of scaling the community has adopted. Just wait till you see Draven, you'll be surpised.
I really enjoy listening to Peter.
His energy is great and amazing insights.
Hell yeah ! The boys are back
You just love to see Peter in podcasts, even if you put aside his hot takes and really really insightful and interesting points the guy is just having a blast! He is laughing his ass off having the time of his live, got to love that❤️
The main reason for the LEC to not have a studio audience atm is probably also because of the insanely high number of infections in Germany. As somebody living in Germany, I can tell you that regulations on events of any kind are quite strict and change often. In addition they currently change with the amount of people who are infected, so they could even change from one week to another.
yeah, german goverments are pretty mental when it comes to corona.
here in austria they are just as bad.
everyone lifts restrictions but they somehow think that forced vaccines are necassary...
Great episode!
Monte is goated af for calling out Peter at 39:00 min ngl
So much praise for Vulcan
I think people misunderstand LS. He isn't going to play "funnel" full scaling every game, it's only if it makes sense against a given comp. And he's not doing it because of TP changes or bounties either. LS has no problem with playing aggro if the result is inevitability for the team. Expect shit like Nasus support against kalista, or illaoi mid, it's just a matter of having the superior draft.
LS has to battle being a frail person and a sassy attitude, especially when he disagrees. if he turns off a player, you can draft all you want, they can still int your game.
@@coybackus7665 you talk as if you know him lmao
@@coybackus7665 this is all just assumptions and its pointless. All we know is that if the draft is better, one team has a significantly better advantage. It doesnt matter if the enemy team has the best players in the world, if they get mega outdrafted, they will probably lose
@@bahoun i've consumed a large amount of his content. maybe he's a skilled actor portraying some obscure character. my bet is he is actually an intelligent, but demanding person... just like on his shows. he wears his face mask to keep warm bruh. i think a stiff wind would blow him over. huge fan of his, and i love his work. these are just humble, and relatively baseless observations. ik what he's shown me.
@@youngcitybandit i don't agree with that at all. better players will win either side of a match up. better players can win a bad draft.
Thorin's banter is unmatched. Thorin & Monte, as soon as I'm able I plan to send some dosh your way, I really appreciate the many hours of work you put into this content and want to support you
2:26:34 I agree Kobbe at his peak was actually just really good, at worlds 2019 Splyce was doing really well vs FPX in very large part thanks to him.
Havent watched it yet but i already like it
I still remember that zed vs other zed video. They showed that at world 6 times before the ryo vs faker game
Timestamps seem to be a bit off?
2:04:09 that was litterally me the first poker game I played with people who actually knew what they were doing lol. I called an all-in bluff with a pair of threes.
"Drake... the artist, correct? " love it
2:40:39 anyone have any Book recommendations?
LOVE ME SOME PETER DUN
love the refernces thorin🤣🤣🤣
2:16:25 Monte's comment about Astralis' innovation LMFAO
Best Poker vs League comment, ever.
I’ve been seeing regi in my solo queue games recently
Another way to stop only hyper carries in the ADC position is to fix full clearing on the jungle, so that junglers have to be more active and in more varied times.
Dont revert TP, when there competitive games where both tops, mids and 1 ADC use TP that's a red flag saying it's just too useful
LCS been a joke for so long, first time in years I've been hyped for it and wanted to watch, C9 games at least. Praise be, the Church of LS 🙏
I LOVE LEAGUE OF LEGENDS¨! I LOVE ALL OF YOU SOULS OUT THERE! I LOVE LEAGUE OF LEGENDS!
2:41:05 Watch Thorin's Reaction XD
How Trymbi doesn't get credit is beyond me, maybe because he's not as "spicy" or popular as Hylli (who I also view highly btw), but Trymbi has been legit impressive this split. He's a big reason for RGE winning games (not a surprise, Good midlaner, good support can win games according to Peter (same G2 formula with Caps/Mikyx insane synergy despite Caps having shit synergy with Jankos. Mikyx roamed for Caps more and that's the reason for their 2020 summer success). Trymbi, Comp, Larssen are the most consistent RGE players. Remember Trymbi outperformed Mikyx in his first playoffs and Kaiser in his first LEC Finals. Trymbi won't be enough to 1v9 a game but he's actually good, don't underestimate him. RGE playoffs depends on Odoamne and Larssen not choking and peeling for Comp who carries the damage% of RGE, Malrang not getting exposed with his inefficient pathing.
1:35:00
1:05:00
Always great to have peter dun on, great stuff as always
2:00:00
Thorin comparing Parth to Jeeves, does that imply Regi is a Bertram Wooster ?
3h jeeez😂 amazing but that is insane
So I only started getting into eSports 2021, but it seems to me that TSM, the past few years, were just sorta carried by the individual skill of people like Bjergsen, Doublelift and so on. But now those people don't want to join cause other options are better. I don't even know if this is a good take or not, but taht's how it seems like to me.
A pretty based take imo
Nah TSM have been on the decline for a while. As has most of LCS over the last couple years, not that they were ever that amazing but at least the EU vs NA thing used to be a rivalry instead of everyone just accepting that EU was better.
TSM is one of the richer Orgs in the LCS so they always had access to the higher tier of players which wouldn't even talk to a team like GG, CLG or FLY.
With Bjergsen on the team that was even more true as people actively wanted to play on his team because he was for a long time simply considered the western goat.
But the scouting clearly wasn't great. They got lucky a bunch of times in the old days and those players stuck around for a while but once they moved on or were kicked they had to scout once more.
Enter the SwordArt deal. They go and pay 6m to a guy they barely know anything about besides his on stage performances. They pretty much bought a famous support instead of a good support.
Also buying a support for 6m is incredibly questionable to begin with. If you gave any team that kind of money they could probably get some insane mid jungle duo before even thinking of getting a support.
Now the whole swordart thing is gone alongside the 6m or part of it at least and TSM scouting once again looks to import.
Once again it doesn't look great. TSMs new chinese imports were hardstuck diamond during the KR soloq bootcamp and the team is winless alongside some very questionable approach to communication which has spica translate during the game.
SO TLDR the guy who scouts for TSM these last couple seasons is completely blind when it comes to actually discerning the current level of the players he scouts.
@@luminous3558 Interessting read, thank you for the response in such detail. But I have one question. Do you know if it was known before this year that regi was kind of a dick? Cause I'm sure that would force tsm to pay more for players if the enviroment was scuffed and people knew about it.
@@nathanaelsallhageriksson1719 People have video evidence of regi being an asshole since he was a pro player. Which was like close to 10 years ago.
Are max waldo and Peter dunn related
JoJo's Bizarre Adventure has one of the best villain arcs in all of anime though, Thorin! You would appreciate Dio as a character
haha your joking right? Thats fcking hillarious bro
I'd love to hear him talk about it, even if it's just to rag on anime again - Thorin going off on niche topics is just really entertaining in and of itself, man's a great speaker.
@WazWut Dio isn't even the most complex villain of the Jojo series
Love Peter dun
peter Stutter dun
I wonder if RGE can keep this up through playoffs and possibly MSI? Or is it going to be the usual "RGE time" ?🤔🤔🤔
Western team is really good at creating cheeser picks but they lack mechanics and macro communication
I heard the french league allowed only about 600 people to watch in person.
Monte is talking a lot of crap yup, just the usual
@@ProvencaLeGaulois Nothing he said was innaccurate. The LEC won't allow 10 players in the studio whilst the LFL will allow 600. Can you not see the discrepancy? LCS (stationed in LA california) won't allow a crowd of about 100 people while the state will allow a crowd of tens and tens of thousands for the super bowl.
@@KennethBoneth He overexaggerated a lot but i see what hes trying to say.
@@KennethBoneth LFL follows french laws, LEC follows german laws.
It never occurs to Monte that regulations might differ in different countries, and in fact they do in this case. Germany's covid regulations are much harsher while France loosened its rules. Germany has been experiencing new daily records of coronavirus infections these past few weeks.
@@ProvencaLeGaulois And the superbowl and LCS are in the same state under the same regulation..
Thorin mate you are sleeping on Mr Pibb
peter dun is like a clone of jijuke, he literally laughs at everything
why are you hating Rekkles so much Thorin?
Im here for the Rekkles' roasts
not watched yet, found any?
@@MrLowbob they were talking about the LFL crowd fiesta and that he's living his best life with the KC fanbase, so Thorin couldn't stop there and added that he's already cried on stage since his debut with KC
Thorin: flames every other podcast. Also thorin: only exists to add some spice to the discussion. As we say in our zoomer language, KEKW
To his credit he moves the conversation between topics when someone starts to ramble.
The fact that you don't notice it as much also speaks to his skill.
The Doublelift podcast was good but it was very free form and unfocused when it came to topics.
I'm a low Gold player and I even knew GP barrels crit. If only that mattered and if only having knowledge makes you a great player.
dunny boi
NA coatches many of them have big egos. It must be a challenge when someone like LS comes to NA with 3 koreans and finally he can show the world his side of view how to play the game and now everyone who made fun of him including me (mistake) will get claped probably. And i am wondering when people realise that Berserker has no competition in NA. I wish him that he can stay at least on the same level as he is right now. 1st weeks to being a pro officialy + his support who got in his 1st month of playing LoL challenger in korea. The freshest duo korean bot you can find in whole LoL, who will gap them in NA.
Coat
Hans can gap them 1v2
@@rezqueue That will be great so as a rokkie he can learn and not be a level ahead of him we shall see it in few days.
Neo, Hans, Danny are all matches for Berserker
@@jackphillips6742 Did you see Dannys face after the game? He understood that this guy is a different breed. His positioning was so insane the whole game that they could not even scratch him. They cannot kill this guy. He was once in danger of dying in 2 games only once but every time he pumped so much dmg in fights. He almost played 2 perfect games as an adc that is hard as fak when everyone is focusing you but they just cannot + ofc they peeled him well but still the positioning was incredible. How many adcs would die or get chunked or late flash or not pump that much dmg. When Berserker just popped Danny on camera you can see he was like what just happend. And Winsome too he died once in that game against them in the last fight. He always positioned well so he can peel or w. If you think about it they are rookies only few days playing profesionaly that speeks for itself.
35:35 To be fair. I have been playing for 7 years now, and I also haven't seen a soraka mid before.
C9 hai pulled it out I remember against TSM maybe
Has been a thing in Top and Mid for a while, but mostly high elo.
But I also saw it a few times when I didn´t play it myself.
Bruh pre rework soraka big was huuge
OCE sends our regards
low tier levente
So... Is EG now a Jojo Reference?
Ok how is ADC the most stacked role in the league? Sure there are 4 good ADC's, but then there's a drop of to Tactical, Neo, Lost, Luger, Johnson, who are clearly not super compelling. Jungle on the otherhand has 6 players all in that top tier, Blaber, Inspired, Spica, River, Closer, Santorin. The fact that Jose and Pridestalkr are (probably) 7th and 8th says a lot about the strength of the position.
Their bluffing analogy on 2:03:00 reminds me exactly of this video th-cam.com/video/QerEtFYZ8Q8/w-d-xo.html and why I think sometimes SoloQ can actually make pros worse lol.
I guess its too expensive, but imagine EG with Jensen and doublelift. Time will tell, but for now I dont see Danny and Jojo competing with hans sama, berserker, bjergsen, abbedagge
Jojo's mechanics and composure in his first few weeks of pro play already look really good, he'll be a top 3 mid in NA if he gets good coaching and learns macro
Jensen and Doublelift were already on the way out. They are simply not worth the salary that they need to demand due to their legacy.
If money is an issue a team is much better off gambling on a new guy which could become their star player for many years instead of giving someone their last hurrah before they retire again after a year.
Danny and Jojo look very promising.
@@luminous3558 its hard to make that argument. It would have been easy to say doublelift was on his way out with TL in spring 2020, but he came back to tsm and won the summer split. Look how close TSM was to getting back to worlds in 2021 - if they had liftlift instead of lost they almost certainly would have made it.
@@shaleel Nobody cares about winning NA especially back in 2020. TSM looked horrible the past 2 years even if other NA teams looked worse. They got slaughtered at worlds and then didnt even make it there.
@@luminous3558 they didn't make it there because they gambled on Lost.
Monte: “You dont want every game to be soraka zilean, janna smite top”
Me thats been playing soraka and janna in solo lanes all last season: “YES YES I DO”
When Monte says all the shit TSM fans followed bjergsen it hit home. As a TL fan our fan base is now absolute trash.
I hope everything aligns and TSM goes out of business, or at least leaves League of Legends someday.
Jojo memes get old?
Imagine if LS hated Olaf but still drafted around that particular Blabber's pick 🤔 #ecclesiaLS
he only hates olaf because it's picked into bad matchups and team comps. He's always said he like olaf with enchanters. I think the olaf pick was insane since
1. Blaber is very good at olaf
2. Olaf counters xin zhao and is good against leona and jinx
3. Since the team already had so much scaling the comp can afford a champ that falls off. So olaf works well at securing drakes early game
While Ls doesn't agree with the general usage of this champion he isn't delusional and will pick it when the circumstances are this good
@@orim8495 so he likes and hates Olaf at the same time? 🤔
@@Xavyer13 bro can you read? He doesn't think olaf is good in general but in this situation it happened to fit very well. (it's very rare that you get such a good situation for olaf)
And pls stop speaking in binary as in he can only like/dislike with no inbetween
@@orim8495 so if you hate Olaf (because you think he is not good in general) and you use him in the very rare occasion that he is viable and you also happen to have a very good Olaf player, then, all of a sudden, you have to stop hating Olaf?? (Also it seems that, incidentally, you're the one that brought up the binary comparison to hate being like. I said he hated Olaf and never addressed the degrees of liking or dislike he might have or not 🤔 him hating Olaf and still using him because he recognizes its virtues over his own biases are two fact that absolutely can coexist together reasonably
@@Xavyer13 yes exactly
Talking about how Kobbe can't carry with what he gets and they are questioning why no one else can't carry with the resources Kobbe gets is ridiculous that team is so trash Kobbe is the only one that looks like he has life or a chance to have any consistency late game if his team hasn't throw yet what do you expect lol literal amateur and academy players in na could better and lfl has better players Cody sun in lfl even could carry better than Kobbe
Only 6 min for C9? :/
Well. You know why.
@@Chris951021 why
@@snakeonex LS and Peter Dun dont get that well along I think.
@@Etheros315 he'll convert eventually
@@Etheros315 also thorin was bashing the LS move preseason at every opportunity he got and now that LS showed up, he didn't speak a single thing in the whole segment of C9. The dude's a sore flucking loser.
I like how these analyst and coaches are trying to analyze LS's picks like they understand it. LS has been calling for ivern/soraka solo lanes since for least 2+ years and Peter saying that this is the new way of funneling because of the item changes and the bounty system... LMAO just stop...
I love how they pointed out that they are playing "funnel" bcs of objective bounties yet they didn't get them even once in the 2 games
lol that qtpie story by Thorin is gold.
The ironic thing about Thorin talking about 1984 and woke culture is that the people who complain the most about woke culture (aka the Alex Joneses of the world) are the ones currently banning and burning books like 1984, To Kill a Mockingbird, and censoring pretty much anything they don't like 🤣
P.S. The whole "The next Tom Brady thing" reminds me of the constant "the next Faker" comparison every decent Western midlaner drew for almost a decade now
L
Dude you have to be damaged or something. Alex Jones is cancelled like a mfer. He can’t cancel anything when he’s 1. cancelled and 2. already was irrelevant.
The democrats in America are the cancel mob, you must live under a rock.
@@lanceelopezz223 Truth hurts. :>
Astralis are for sure the worst team in the west.
Peter Dun has had so much media training he is a worthless guest in terms of saying anything. He can comment on other leagues and teams but he never says one useful word on his own team.
Only Thorin can say something like "I am going to play on his weakness, his humanity" and not sound like an edgy 14 year old
im gonna laugh so hard at the end of the year when lcs hard outperforms lec. The false confidence coming from lec right now by thorin is laughable they look so bad compared to lcs not even close.
On what planet? Your best team is TL which consists or Hans and bwipo, who in EU didn't shine as much as they do in NA against lower quality players. You'll be in for a shock when European teams ramp up like they always do..
Well it was only a matter of time. LCS took most of the best LEC players this year while also building competent teams around them.
If you are a good player and you can either play for a good LEC or a good LCS team then there is very little reason to not go to LCS where you are more likely to make worlds and get paid multiple times the salary of LEC.
Also LS kinda brought his super team to the LCS this year which will elevate the league purely by existing and confronting other teams with both different strategy and korean level mechanics.
Peter Dun is a boring guest. Stop inviting this guy