Note: I made a video about this case a few years ago (back when I first started the channel) but put it on private because I wanted to re-make it from scratch with better editing and research. This is the new video.
I don’t know who you are..but number 1.) your voice is so soft..reminds me of that bee lady’s videos (this is a compliment I swear) 2.) Your videos are AMAZING.
There’s a story of an older woman who got lost in the woods and was only a few miles from the trail. Rescuers failed to locate her. It took 2 years for someone to stumble across her campsite and remains. That story and this one is a warning about how dangerous the woods are. It doesn’t always come from something mysterious or a murderer. Getting lost is just as dangerous.
At the same time, this could’ve been avoided. They didn’t need to go so far into the jungle (like if that’s the case, what idiot would do that?), much less in a country surrounded by other countries that are known to have many cartel related activities take place
For years I walked in the local park early in the morning while it was still dark (on a road) and whenever there was a really dark moonless night I would think about those girls. They must of been terrified. RIP ladies.
@@IPS-FFF72until you've spent days in the jungle, cold and knowing you will likely never come home again, you have no right to blame either of these girls
Yep i read most stuff about this case and they had journals where they were obsessed with the waterfalls. They probably heard one, went there and got lost. Unprepared and being Dutch, i know 99% of teenagers in the Netherlands or young adults would not survive in the jungle. No clothes, no shelter, no survival skills, they were sadly dependent on people finding them
Yep. I agree 100%. There are many people who just want this to have a twist or conspiracy hidden in it but sadly all the evidence and logic shows that they got lost and died. One of them got hurt which explains the phone lock attempts as logic states it was the other girl desperately trying to get into her friends phone to see if it had a signal but also not knowing the passcode so she was desperately guessing. This case is tragic.
@@KarmaGeeGee it's "clean" but it's a mess of knots and all over the place. they were near a river she could probably easily rinse her hair if it got dirt in it
The 77 times the phone got turned on either without a passcode or the wrong password, doesn’t necessarily signify foul play as it could simply be Kris checking her phone for a signal as IPhones typically has its signal on the top left without entering a passcode
@@RyanReeves-ic4rx It's a signal of someone opening the phone and either entering a wrong password, or not entering one at all. Because if you were not the owner and didn't know the password, you would not enter one.
But even if there were all wrong password attempts, if Kris was not able to use her phone for whatever reason, I don't think it's too crazy to imagine Lisanne trying to get into her phone - and failing - to contact emergency services
Sad ending, but the immediate alarm bells that were raised the morning after they went missing by a TOUR GUIDE is very commendable on his part. If you missed your guided tour with someone in the USA, you wouldn’t be reported missing until your family realized you were gone, and that’s if you have family.
A couple things to clarify: 1) The backpack was actually originally found dirty and wet, with the investigators waiting for the electronics to dry before searching them. The claim that it was found clean seems to stem from a misinterpreted article. 2) People have recreated the same camera model skipping a photo number by deleting it directly on the camera, by having it fall, or having it sustain water damage. I think they either got lost or slipped and got injured or somehow immobilized. The "suspicious" stuff actually convinces me that foul play didn't happen. Manually deleting photos, faking 112 calls, scattering body parts in the jungle, etc. Seems like an insane amount of effort and risk when it would be much easier and safer to make sure that bag and those bodies were never found.
@@papagramps1257 Unfortunately, can't give you links because TH-cam will block them, but it seems like all the reports of bleaching from a chemical comes from the same Daily Beast article. The Lost in the Jungle authors claim they got access to the autopsy report that mentions the bleached bone which states it is within the bounds of sun bleaching. But of course, unless we have access to everything, I doubt we will ever know the clear answer.
@@yaykruser because of the nature of the ankle joint - the talus is only connected by ligaments so once those decompose, theres nothing left to hold it attached to the body. this is well known in forensics so im not sure why she missed that, because everything else was well researched
I feel like the most likely scenario would actually be a combination of the two. The 112 calls really only make sense to be from the girls themselves since it’s the Dutch emergency number and not the local one. However the way the remains were found looks more like murder. I feel like they might have been lost and subsequently found by someone with bad intentions when they were already weakened from spending nights in the forest.
The way the remains were found is actually fully in line with them being lost and dying while lost. All the evidence and logic shows that is what happened here. It's tragic but it is what it is. People just like to add more mystery to cases like this so they add a secret killer to the mix but all facts show they got lost, one of them got hurt and unresponsive probably from a fall (their posts show they were desperate to experience being on top of a waterfall which hints at their mindset) and the remaining girl tried to use her friends phone for help but couldn't guess the passcode.
I'm glad you went through the timeline from both the girls' and authority's point of view simultaneously. Really puts into perspective how long they were out there for still trying to find service. Also super interesting to see how people have found all the nighttime photos were taken in the same location, you included a lot of small details I'd never heard about. keep up the amazing content
Getting lost is so scary because it's so simple. You can get turned around and get lost more easily than you might think. There have been cases of people losing their sense of direction and ending up dead just meters from the trail. The way simple things can change your life forever... Very warmed to hear that the tour guide reported them missing so quickly. He did exactly what he should have. I really want to know more specifics about the phone opening 77 times. You said "putting the wrong passcode OR not entering a passcode," and these are very different things. How many were wrong passcodes and how many were nothing? Plus, it's very reasonable that Lisanne was trying to get in but she doesn't know the code and Kris was incapacitated.
I don't think the police (??) could tell which parts were them trying to put the passcode in and which parts were just them checking the signal since you don't need to put in the passcode to do that. They just know that the phone was opened
I remember this case vividly as I am from the Netherlands and have seen it on the news many times. The Netherlands was absolutely captivated by this story and the search for these women. When they found the camera and the photos, man, that sent shivers down my spine. My thoughts were that they made the night-time pictures to scare off animals or be able to see in the dark. Chilling to think of what they might have gone through.
I believe it was foul play, but yes I agree that they seemed to have used the flash to scare wild life while making noises with rocks or a branch. However, I live in the north of Argentina, right next to the Amazonas jungle, and you have no idea how many tourists, especially from Europe like to go full adventurous and wander off the limits of the assigned touristic spots and trails ignoring the warnings to get pictures in more exotic remote places. And they end up hurt, lost or worst losing their lives to nature and wild life. (We have panthers and even anacondas capable of swallowing a full adult humans in here) Regardless of how sensational these stories may be at home, it would be smarter to encourage friends and family to avoid being brave and adventurous in places and environments you may have no skills to survive in.
@@acfan8253i think so many Europeans underestimate it, because we barely have any animals that can kill you. And Europe is small and so densely populated that it is hard to go more than a few hours on foot away from civilization, especially in central Europe.
It's fun for people to make up stories with ghosts and things like this but usually it's very boring. Some hispanic men raped and murdered the women. Happens all the time.
I’m assuming phones didn’t have flashlights at that time? I kept wondering why they would take photos for light and then I realized maybe phones didn’t have flashlights.
I also wonder why they wouldn’t have used the flash to see during earlier nights. Why only April 8th? Perhaps the other nights they settled down to rest before dark. So they knew what was around them. So what was different about the 8th?
Maybe the 77 password errors was the other girl trying to enter the phone, but not knowing the password. This would fit the theory that one of them was lost, injured, or in danger. It makes more sense than if an assailant was trying to enter the phone. If I was an assailant, I would not waste my time trying to figure out a password of a stranger. If I was a friend though, I may feel that i know enough about my friend to guess their password. The friend may have felt she had a chance by trying middle names, pet names, birthdates, etc. To me, trying to find a password 77 times is something her friend would try rather than an attacker. Also, I believe the photos could've been taken by the friend. On my phone, there are two options you can click before logging in. They are 1) take a photo 2) emergency calls. The two icons are right next to eachother. I think it's plausible that while she was trying to use the call button, or just desperately trying to unlock the phone by clicking a bunch of buttons, that a few accidently pictures could be taken.
This really makes a lot of sense.. I was really wondering why the attacker would want to unlock the phone when they could already delete one of the pictures so wouldn't it mean they could've also done other stuff? I feel really bad for the girls, just imagining how scary it was.
But the 77 password errors weren't just incorrect pins. They were also just the phone being turned on without any password. I had a theory about the deleted image matching up with the phone errors. Like you said, on iPhone, two options show before logging in. Take a photo, or emergency calls. That means you don't need a password to delete a photo, which possibly matches up with the deleted image. It could've been anything, but I feel like it could've been any recognizable feature to show that they were in danger and that was their location.
@taespano34 I would totally believe this case was a simple "they got lost" situation if the bleached bones didn't happen. There is no explanation to that besides someone wanted to hide something. If the killer hadn't done that, we literally would not have known.
It’s very easy to get injured hiking/camping. I’ve almost slipped off into a ravine and hit by a dead tree, that broke off in the middle. They most likely were gravely injured. :(
Though he can tell where it is from the picture, he is definitely at least a few kilometres off for these situations as everything looks uniform in a forest. Plus, it’s dark in half of those photos and it happened 10 years ago. Even if he found it, it’s too late to recover any good evidence.
More importantly, he does stuff that's visible from Google Street view most of the time, it's pretty unlikely that a deep obscure park trail in Panama would be on there and he therefore most likely woildnt have the resources he normally uses.@@TheFutureDothDream
you're probably referring to rainbolt. he's not the only one with that capability and many in the FBI get paid for that. however, they probably wouldn't be able to do much in a case like this one.
@@a.31415yeah, he's pretty good with geo guesser, which require previously captured images/path documentation. i doubt there would be proper path documentation here, like a google maps car or some sort.
Dutch forensics said that it's very likely that they fell of a cliff nearby with a pretty steep drop and got extremely wounded. There's no way to climb back up without proper equipment (expecially when hurt) so that could explain why they kept walking. There's also several waterfalls nearby which could explain the remains in the river. They called the chance of there being any kind of foul play or murder involved "extremely unlikely", saying there's virtually no evidence whatsoever that this was the case. I personally feel like some of the "facts" in this video might just be reddit "forensic experts", and no conclusion from actual research. But who knows.
@@tzuyuwu786 the reason I'm bringing up the forensic team is partially because of that. If it really was that obvious that the bones were bleached or touched by some kind of chemical, why would they ever make a statement saying there's no evidence and foul play being very unlikely. There seem to be very little concrete sources for the claim, and the links quoted on Wikipedia has one behind a pay wall and the other doesn't even mention it. The problem with high profile cases like these is that information comes in from all sides, and origins of the information are often lost or twisted or made way more dramatic. I'd rather trust a forensic team than some info that barely has a source at this point
@@kko9329 "This is not a concern as the backpack was further touched by the (male) police officer who collected it and other persons in the chain of custody before being tested. The DNA analysis should not be overvalued as the DNA found is most likely from the persons who found and handled the backpack after its discovery." Fact is, DNA gets on stuff in a lot of ways. Could be remnants of someone they interacted with before the hike, someone who found the backpack, or anything inbetween. Assuming foul play just because there's DNA on something is a bit of a leap
yeah, the bleaching part sounds a bit sus to me, but i've always been curious about the other evidence contradicting natural decomposition - stuff like the pelvis being broken in half when that is supposedly pretty unlikely for a young person's pelvis, or the absence of marks on the bones that would've suggested natural decomposition in a river. there's even that whole thing with the piece of skin supposedly attributed to lisanne, found in much earlier stages of decomposition than the rest of the remains. but, of course, there's so many rumors and so much inaccurate/maybe mistranslated information, plus alleged mishandling of the investigation/the evidence by panamanian authorities, it's kind of difficult to know what's true and what isn't.
When the owner of the phone went unconscious from the broken ankle the other girl attempted to open her phone. Not really hard to figure out why there would be wrong attempts to unlock.
the photos taken in the dark scare me so bad. I'm so afraid of the dark. If i was in that situation, I would be too scared to even take flash photos. I think I would just curl up in a ball, try to cover myself with some bushes, and try to be silent and have a panic attack. I would almost rather die
If you find the ankle inside the shoes strange, there's a video of a rockclimber that falls down like 2 meters or below and just cripple his ankle, even though there was a mat on the ground. Depending on how you fall down, the results can be dead serious.
a few years ago i fell 10 feet while bouldering onto a 3ft thick mat. broke my ankle in two seperate places, bruised my tibia pretty badly. it really does matter how you fall
interesting...they said the foot in the boot was a clean cut but who knows what that means without looking at it. maybe she passed out from shock if that did happen
I just found this channel the other day and I've been binge watching all of your videos. It's the fact that every video is genuinely so well edited and scripted. Looking foward to watching this and your future uploads
Same here. I was looking for more content like Wendigoons, where someone just explains what happened without being all dramatic or using spooky music. Stumble across this channel and they do exactly that, but with the added bonus of documented footage or interviews. This is genuinely one of the best channels on TH-cam for this kind of content full stop.
@@echobay2023 I love wendigoon too it’s crazy how quickly he blew up too I like some of those spooky ones too tho like lazy masquerade or chilling scares but I do love a straight to the point channel and the amount of research she does is on par or past dreading(the TH-cam channel)
@Ilikechamomile I don't even really a problem with those channels. I haven't come across those two you mentioned before, but someone I enjoy from time to time is Nexpo. He'll do that slow talking, dramatic pause, creepy music thing all the time, but I don't feel like I learned anything watching those videos. They're just kind of, "turn your brain off and have a good spooky time." Whereas with Wendigoon or now this channel, it feels like I am learning about the topic at hand. These channels peak my curiosity and make me want to do more research into the topics. Which as I get older, I find is becoming way more appealing to me.
damn every time I watch a video on their case it makes me nauseatingly sad. The fear and pain they went through is unimaginable. Also, this is by far my favorite vid on this case! Everything about it is so well done! def binge watching ur vids till I fall asleep xD
imagine them comforting each other, how did the last one process the first's death? did they die in the same event? was one of them alone? especially if it was an accident...
After years of speculation, I've come to the conclusion that, sadly, the girls actually did get lost and possibly one or both suffered an injury. I just find it confusing that they never took another photo after 508 documenting their circumstances. A really perplexing turn of events. A very sad case.
I think they were so terrified I mean think of this forest at night pitch black lots of unusual noises they’re not use too from animals they don’t know from their home country I think it is strange how they documented it though like if they were injured why not take pictures or film the injuries explaining what happenee
It's weird how the photos go from being two girls having a time of their lives to photos of the night sky, trees and the top of Kris' head. I have to wonder if Kris had already succumbed and Lisanne mentally and physically deteriorating couldn't document it.
@@all-s0rtswhat are the chances of both girls falling off the cliff? An their bodies not being found, also why a pic of the back of someone’s head? The way her hair was it looked like she way laying facedown cause the hair goes in all directions, foul play was definitely involved
@@all-s0rts………7:35 if she was standing it would be somewhat falling down, instead it’s scattered, why would her friend waste the flash on the back of her head when they could’ve used it to see ahead for a second
I've seen elsewhere that the well known local guide seen in this video was very suspect and has been reported before about making girls feel uneasy. They had this guide's card. I looked up the tour guide on Google reviews and the comments are quite revealing from tourists who used him before this happened.
thank you so much for shedding light for the girls disappearance. it must've been difficult for both parents to endure their daughters unknown cause of their disappearance. rest in peace lisanne and kris
I get the feeling that the people that like to believe they were followed etc. are those that either love making up drama or have never been in a dense wood/jungle. The kidnapper / killer theory makes no sense because in that terrain they could have easily done the crime and left no trace whatsoever. Jungles are intimidating places, it is impossible to really understand how thick and hostile they can be unless you've been in one. I've been to many jungle areas in Asia and one of the key features is that mobile phone signal is lost very quickly even in national parks with main roads nearby. Even in the "clearings", it is still difficult to get a signal. Another issue is that it is soo easy to get disorientated, overheated (even suffer heat stroke) and become panicked. You can also lose track of people who were only a few metres in front of you and not be able to hear them. To me it really seems like these girls just sadly overestimated their ability, thought they would do "just an extra little bit" and got into trouble. This is a much more common cause of death than a random psychopath. Even the backpack disappearing / reappearing could indicate someone found it and moved it to a more obvious spot (to be helpful) or didn't realise it wasn't just lost, or maybe it was moved by an animal.
I completely agree, I don’t think a lot of people here realize just how complex and disorientating the forest, even more so a JUNGLE can be.. especially when you aren’t on a path. I can’t even begin to imagine how they felt.
Agreed, people love to add murder to a sad situation to create drama, but for what? Their loved ones have to live with the fact they're dead but here are some couch experts on youtube turning their already horrible demise into an actual horror movie.
After watching The island with bear grylls which coincidentally was filmed in panama I think the most logical explanation is that they got lost. If you Google el mirador del pianista boquete panamá you can find multiple traveler photos of the trail. At the time they went on the trail there weren’t any signs or markers to indicate that the trail had ended. The girls didn’t speak Spanish and they weren’t from the area. The trail doesn’t have signs or a post that indicate which way back to town. After exploring beyond the mirador for close to 3 hours, the girls panicked when they realized they were going in circles and it was getting dark soon. The jungle is pitch dark and there are tons of predators which include snakes, spiders, jaguars, cougars, coyotes. Plus reports at the time indicated that rain had slowed down the rescue efforts. My best guess is they tried to climb to high ground in order to get a cellular signal. The night pictures showed what appears to look like S.O.S sign with white paper. The camera appears to have been used as a flashlight as there was proof of pictures taken with flash every 9 seconds standing in the same spot. The night pictures also indicate they were on high ground overlooking a steep drop below. At some point it appears they tried to follow the culebra river until they reached a town. Unfortunately the culebra river runs to the Caribbean side which would take them farther away from boquete. I don’t believe that they were killed by a gang of local boys that followed them into the jungle because it would be easier to dig a grave and bury the girls and all their belongings and ensure they vanished without a trace instead of turning phone off and on 77 times on several days and taking 100’s of photos in order to make it appear the girls were lost in the jungle. Lastly, it doesn’t make sense to fold all the girls belongings and put camera in waterproof bag so that someone can find it later.
@KareemAbdul-jabberUFCthey didn't just leave them. They would have had to take hundreds of pictures and somehow murder them without any show of force on the autopsy. They just died from exposure
@@crystalfelicia9924 the trails WEREN’T MARKED. You can clearly see that during 2014 a Panamanian news crew tried to retrace the steps of the missing girls. There are NO MARKINGS. th-cam.com/video/pu-YgDviqfE/w-d-xo.htmlsi=NpzYtX-BtXb1jF82
I grew up in Panama, and I remember when my and my family visited Chiriqui and Boquete around the time these girls went missing and seeing their missing posters. Scary, and not too long later they found the severed foot. We all thought for sure it was foul play or some animal that got to them. Either way, tragic. I hope their families are ok.
The nightime photos give me chills. As someone afraid of the dark, I'm 100% certain those are photos they took because they couldn't see where they were going and were using the flash as light. My gut instinct is that they were being followed, chased, and knew it. They called 911, the host, looking for helping. Was using the flash as light to see where they were going because they probably got lost during a tense and very frightening pursuit. Not a happy ending.
Someone following them would also be an explanation for why they left the trail and pushed deeper into the woods. Maybe they thought they could avoid whoever was stalking them and then loop back around, but got quickly got lost.
They could have used one of the phones for flashlight and keep the other off to keep finding signal later on. But of course due to the stress and anxiety maybe they didn’t think of this and went for the camera flash that would only give them a fraction of a second light period each time. Something makes me think they were either trying to scare wild life with the flash while making noises with rocks or a branch or they were documenting a third party that was a threat for them or luring then into some trap while acting as a rescuer. Which would explain the missing/deleted photos.
The chase part is probably fear of the dark getting the better of you xD I'm thinking maybe trying to conserve battery by just taking a pic for light instead of turning it on as a flashlight, also would make more sense because of the same plant in multiple pictures, meaning they were taken from the same place and same direction. But the case as a whole, yeah my bet is on gang kidnapping.
I love that you're still making quality videos despite the algorithm blatantly ignoring your content. I found you via your video on the German family that got lost in the desert and couldn't find your channel afterwards. This video just got recommended to me. Glad to have found you again and I hope many people get to enjoy your videos. The case of the two Dutch girls in Panama has always felt very personal to me since it made me remember all the potentially dangerous situations I put myself into when I lived & studied abroad. Going on solo early morning hiking trips when it's term break and all of your dorm roommates are abroad or visiting their families was probably not the best idea. Everything worked out fine but they'd never have found me if it didn't because I didn't leave notes and no one knew where I went. I got lost so many times I could've been ine of those cases where they just have CCTV footage of people getting if a bus somewhere. The two girls' story made me remember to at least leave a note or contact s.o. before I go out exploring the world on my own 😮.
As a solo traveler as well you are really dumb. I have no empathy for people like you when something bad happens. If you don’t care for your life why should anyone else?
I've been hiking in my family's owned forest, and its easy to underestimate how easily you can get lost when you wander off the trail. I remember looking back and not recognizing any of the trees I've just passed.
Reminds me of the scandinavian girls who thought going to morroco alone would be a great idea. I just don't understand the thinking, like the people who biked into syria to spread love and peace.
@@lillemy5062 it's not that they went to Morroco alone, it's that they decided to camp by themselves in a remote area with no guide or protection, after spending a whole day in a village where two young blond scandinavian girls really don't go unnoticed
Definitely going with the lost theory. A few people posting here have been lost and I was as well. I mean I wasn’t really lost but I was on a trail and couldn’t find my way back. I would see hikers all around me so I wasn’t in a dangerous situation. BUT it took me hours to find my way back (it should’ve taken minutes). I was really dehydrated. I feel so bad for these girls
the girls getting lost can explain the incorrect pin on phone, if one of them was hurt or unconscious. the other trying to use her friends phone without knowing the pin, wouldn't be unusual. especially since in that situation they'd be even more frantic and desperate the bleaching is weird but maybe there is a natural explanation we're not familiar with at the moment. either way very sad
I think most people fail to understand the mindset of these girls. But it is in their diaries for all to read. Lisanne was very practical and organized. But she did get sick quite a bit. Kris went through a crisis in Panama feeling homesick and insecure. She hated that and was determined NOT to contact her parents about it and do this trip all alone no matter what, without bothering her family. And that is how they went up the trail. Thinking to do it all alone and prove themselves as adults and as women...in totally the wrong place to do so....unprepared...ill equipped. And that is understandable because our society entices girls and women to seek and express power...often in stupid ways. let us be honest here and discuss how badly they went about it; - they wore very little clothes! Anybody going hiking should wear protective clothing that covers your entire body. It seems they may have removed their bra's at some point which makes perfect sense. You do not want tight underwear when doing physical activity in a rainforest. Even the military teaches their troops this very same thing. - they had very little water. 2 little bottles can be seen from the evidence. This is so understandable...the girls thinking to bring a little store bought bottle of water and hey we be fine....NO! You need as much water as you can carry to begin with! They should have carried 4 liters at least for the trail but they even went beyond that trail. - they did not bring anything else to help them hiking. No first aid kit, no compass, no knife or anything to help a person in the forest. No lighters or matches....nothing at all. A recipe for disaster. This should be a lesson to hikers and young women especially. DO NOT TAKE NATURE LIGHTLY AND NEVER IN A PLACE YOU ARE SO UNFAMILIAR WITH. STAY SAFE ALWAYS.
Once, hiking with my friend, we got lost in a snowstorm and completely missed our turn. After climbing a couple of hours in a wrong direction, knee deep in snow and zero visibility - we realized that something is odd, as we had not met any person on the trail. What did we do? We traced our steps back, gradually returning to the original junction. Even though, we had an idea just to climb a hill and watch from there where to go. The point is - the simplest ideas are usually the safest. Take your time to understand the situation you are in, consider the options and decide if your life is at risk. + always leave a not to someone where do you go and when you are expecting to be back
I love this channel! I have a passing interest in true crime but I'm turned off of a lot of other channels that cover it bc they sensationalise it so much and there's something about someone talking about horrific murders and then going " - and now a word from our sponsor, Audible!!" that makes me feel icky. Your videos are well researched, edited and presented, and you just give the facts in a way that's easy to follow and relatively "neutral", and I really appreciate that. It's important for topics like disappearances, cults, true crime etc to be learned about and discussed, and I'm glad that you do it in a way that's informative and that feels respectful to the victims.
the word icky makes me homicidal but i agree about the sponsor thing. one of my friends was murdered a few years ago and it was a high profile case that was covered by many true crime youtubers. i remember watching one out of curiosity and i had to turn it off immediately after "this video is sponsored by raid shadow whatever ajdkfhdh i love this game sooo much now anyways!!! let's talk about the brutal murder of a 17 year old!" like it's just so corny idk.
Why would the killers leave the camera? Simply throw it away or destroy it the money was also left untouched. Days in the jungle without food would leave you disorientated and Confused that's why those poor girls probably couldn't unlock the phone whichever Theory it's totally heartbreaking
I have been so drunk that I cant talk yet I could phone my girls number to come pick me up yet they cant enter 4 digits? Leaving the money would be genius of the killer same with the camera & photos.
Yeah it doesn't make sense.if they got murdered It's most likely a cartel, they're very thorough with disposing of evidence and this seems like a shoddy job.
I have lived in several countries in Latin America included Panama. I work for an European company so I have always had European colleagues. They always travel so carelessly, and alone most of the times. They put themselves in unnecessary danger, but they don't care if you warn them.
As a Panamenian, the theories of what happened to the girls are pretty crazy. The most crazy one i've heard is were it is believed that the indios conejos kidnapped the girls then ate them and somehow managed to bleach their bones. In my opinion, the trail is very well marked and it doesnt just make sense they got lost.
@@gameseeker6307 didnt it say in the video they looked up the trail beforehand, the tour guide was the one who reported them missing, and they had a map?
Outstanding video. I’ve seen tons of other channels cover this topic but each one seemed to leave out different details making for an unsatisfying watch. You covered details that I hadn’t seen elsewhere and gave a thorough explanation of the current theories. Awesome stuff as usual!
My grandpa gave me some advice when I was probably too young to hear it, but I actually always appreciate it when I hear a story suspected of foul play. He told me while everyone has to worry about being assaulted, so long as you have what you have between your legs you must live cautiously. Is it fair no, should I have to worry about such a thing no, but that is wishful fantasy, the reality is you do have to worry about it, and you must live with your wits about you. Don't talk to strangers while under the influence or put yourself in an unpredictable situation without having a backup plan A and B. I believe the difference between paranoia and caution is a disciplined mind. You don't have to be afraid to live but understand in the jungle of life, the jackal prowls.
@@spaljenibackup9339 I normally carry. I have a license to carry concealed, 38 snub nose. Now if I am going hiking I'm bringing much more than that. I will not become a statistic without giving at least one of them the room temperature challenge first.
@@arcturus4762 I had an incident happen to me that changed my mind on safety forever. Two men that i considered family/best friends for life broke into my house and..well i dont need to explain that right? We had been inseparable since high school and i guess just out of shock I just laid there on the floor for most of the day I dont even know how long it took me to drag myself into the bathroom and ran the water still half clothed in torn shirt and underwear. I never turned them in, i was in denial i think that two ppl i used to say I love you too every single day would do this. I didnt feel sorry for myself for long it turned into hate and its never really gone away. I got my license to carry, became addicted with training to be in the best shape i can possibly be, and I go to the range every single weekend that I can, along with homies with private property that let me shoot at targets, mostly military friends who can teach me something. (I live in the sticks so its farmers and country folk) I now own a bathroom size safe filled with enough weapons and ammunition to arm a small militia, I have motion lights surrounding my entire house roof, I had steel doors installed to replace my wooden doors, and mesh glass installed replacing every window. Now I sleep soundly lol. But yeah maybe it just takes learning how cruel the world can be, how unsafe we all truly are, and how even those you love with all your heart can turn on you at any time. I keep my head on a swivel when i am outside my house. I am grateful for the life lessons. I used to see the world differently, but in some ways I am appreciative of the raw truth I know view life with. There is nobody coming to help you is the best truth to understand to me.
@@IAmOddGirl Sound advise lady. I am a 50 year old woman living in San Francisco, and i fear for my safety everytime i leave my apartment. I enjoy fishing and venture through a very isolated path to get to my beach. I carry bear spray and a Buck knife. I would love nothing more than to buy a '38 snub nose' ( i looked it up and this seems perfect for me as well ) but finding a gun store in the Bay Area is impossible. I will need to do more research. Thank you for your input and i'm very sorry this terrible thing happened to you.
I believe that FELICIANO was part of it, the two girls spoke different language and didn't know much about the place, they were easy prey sadly. It's quite suspicious that first thing he does it's to search to them in the room. Also Nina von Rönne, a photographer who stayed with the tour guide in 2015, was so creeped out by him she wrote a book about him. Her book is called "Ne t'en fais pas, nous sommes amis..." (Don't worry, we are friends...), which is something he kept telling her when he tried to touch her
This is really sad. It must've been scary for those girls, I can't imagine how much fear they were in. I think what happened was they were too excited and went on for a bit off trail and then got lost. They panicked and tried to call the police to find them. They kept going but they were too tired, and then it got dark, and they have like zero visibility. They probably used the phone flash as a way to get through the darkness but seeing how the pics are mostly within the same place and towards the sky, I think they were trying to get help. For some reason they didn't have reception maybe as they were deep in the forest. One of them got injured (or even both), fell of the cliff or somewhat, and that's probably where everything went downhill. Either they got separated and led to more accidents, or they both just died from falling or getting injured and no one came to help. Either way.. I'm so sorry that happened to these girls. There is still a possibility that there was foul play but unfortunately there wasn't enough evidence to support it. Though the bleached parts found are indeed odd.
9:30 to y'all saying there weren't really signs of foul play bc of the phone records: parts of their bones (clean cut foot and BLEACHED PELVIC and RIB BONE, etc) and belongings were found in different areas in a way to me screams foul play. how would a piece of her pelvis just be somewhere away from her body ? and the foot was too clean cut to be an animal, i don't believe they had weapons so it couldn't have been them
To me, the fact that the official theory is that the girls got lost coupled with the fact that the authorites haven't released all the pictures taken means they probably did get lost and got injured. Maybe those omitted pictures are revelatory because that picture of a blonde head really creeped me out and I can't explain it in any context
About the photos being photoshopped, do they think someone would photoshop them and put them back in the camera? Isn't photoshopped pictures "easily" identified by pros?
It’s pretty obvious: three girls got off the trail by accident and one of them slipped and got hurt. The other girl decided to stay with her friend instead of looking for help, they kept waiting but no one found them, with helicopters flying by they probably thought it wouldn’t take long. As time passed by both girls either got too injured or too weak to move, they took those pictures to lighten the path and identify animals they were or just to try and get attention off search groups. After they died animals scattered the remains and the river damaged them. A local probably found the backpack but didn’t want to get involved so they just dropped it where they knew it would be found soon. One of the girls deleted the picture or a police officer involved in the car accident did it and no one cared at the time because it just wasn’t important. That’s the only explanation that makes any sense, the rest is paranoia.
It is quite obvious that you have the mind of a 5-year-old child and you have not graduated from school.Animals do not carry remains over such long distances.Locals from Latin America live there."I found the backpack, but I returned it back because I was afraid of being involved."😂This is not Europe.There are people there who, for the most part, don't like white tourists.There could be gangs, cannibals, girls could be sold for organs, raped, whatever.
It was a bit eerie having this video pop up on autoplay as it mentions my country let alone the town where i live. Its a case forever haunted by only speculation and rumours, sadly anything i could bring to the table is truly only rumored, even with resurfacing recently with locals having bizarre accusations to other individuals still over here. The theory of it being edited does not sound right and the contradictions only circle into nothing cohesive enough. Here, this town is very safe and for something like this to happen as it is still a huge tourist attraction type of town and its still talked about today. I had never heard the case in full detail like this. Well done. We can only hope one day something can come to light for these families to be at peace.
the 112 call is definetly from the girls. The other 8 or 9 911 calls probably too. They must have lost their way and tried to get help. Surviving in the forest for 7 days seems very unlikely though. Therfor all the nighttime pictures are very suspect. Not to mention how pictures are deleted and the bones are plain dry. It takes longer than 7days for humans to decompose like tha...
tbh I find it very plausible that they got lost in the jungle and got injured etc ... In Europe and Netherlands for that matter, there are barely any really wild forests similar to this... and I would assume, if you have no experience in that area it is even easier to get lost. Also, the nighttime photos could also be a way to get noticed. maybe they heard the helicopter and search party and tried this as a signal for help... It's easy to say in retrospect that tthe flash was no use or that they could have left a message... but I guess being in a situation were you are in a panic and possibly badly hurt, being in shock.. it's not that easy. Poor girls really. They must have been so scared being alone out there
I’ve been reading a lot of the comments and while I don’t have the exact text of the comments I saw, people have pointed out that neither of these are as clear-cut as the video makes it seem. It turns out that there are ways that this particular digital camera could have potentially skipped 509, including falling or getting wet. This also seems consistent with the shift from daytime to nighttime photos. After taking the daytime photos, the girls fall, maybe from a waterfall since it sounds like they really wanted to find one. In this fall the camera also takes a hit, and is still functional, but either the fall or water damage cause it to skip 509. Then the girls start using the flash of the camera to see at night. They aren’t actually concerned with taking pictures anymore, which is why the photos are exclusively at night. They’re either using it to see, or scare off animals they hear, or both.
The bone bleaching is odd, but there are still potentially natural explanations that we just don’t understand well enough. One commenter pointed out that vultures are known to cause some parts of the decomposition process to occur faster, and vultures have not really been considered heavily in forensic science until relatively recently. Further, there are some vultures native to Panama that may not be well studied. So it is at least possible that natural causes are to blame rather than foul play; they may just be natural causes with which we are not very familiar. Also, if the bone bleaching could definitely be attributed to foul play, then it seems odd that the forensic scientists would all conclude that foul play seemed highly unlikely, unless of course there was some other factor like some sort of corruption or something.
The foot in the shoe can be explained by the scavenging of animals. I live in a city that has an iconic bridge, and every so often someone'll find a severed foot in a shoe washed up on a shore. When someone commits suicide off the bridge, their body is picked apart by the marine life. The feet are usually all that is left because the shoes aren't knocked off by the force of the impact.
I stumbled into this channel as the starting point of my Jonestown research and I've already begun binging its videos, every one you put out is incredibly well done and serves as a great summary of the events! I'll definitely be sticking around. 🍿🍿
oh wow! i just found this channel and am surprised to see this video here. i’ve grown up in panama and i remember being maybe 12 years old when these women went missing. it was really scary. there’s been a total of roughly 24 tourists missing in the past few years and most locals speculate there’s an indigenous serial killer up in the pianista. it’s still a popular tourist destination but the actual path the girls took is all overgrown now, plus it’s believed they went off path. it’s beautiful out there but it’s just so sad to think of what happened in our little mountain town. rest in peace girls
Unpredictable does it again 🤙 super good. Even though I’ve heard the story before, you had some great input. I tend to lean towards foul play, but we’ll never know
Very bizarre. I think its either a mixture of both getting lost and assaulted, or just lost. More and more Im siding towards just lost tbh. Murder would make it unlikely to leave remains, after all. And everything else can be explained with circumstancial explanations. that missing image could have been easilly just erased after taking the later one, it being a reshot for example. Strange the what Im supposing to be a reshot isnt public yet. Question is whether #409 and 410 are nightime photos are still regular ones. the emergency calls, nothing to be said. The phone logins actually also could make sense, for example the other girl trying to log onto her friends phone, not knowing the pin because the other already died or something happened to her.
As far as the night pictures go, it could have been because they heard someone or something in the forest. Big predatory felines are known to live in Panama and they often have a preference for weak or injured prey. I can see how they might have used the flash of the camera to illuminate the area and check the pictures for the shape of a predator or the flash of nocturnal eyes. If the camera had the ability to enhance dark photographs, this would even further explain why they were using it in this way, and taking repeated photos of the same area. If I was convinced that a big cat was stalking me and my injured friend, I would want to make damn sure that noise was NOT something with teeth. Obviously, we can't see anything other than trees and ground and dark sky in the pictures, so maybe the cat was scared off, or maybe it wasn't there to begin with.
Literally just found this channel through the Jones town video. Found my new obsession, thank you for the new binge content, your videos are great quality and hope to see more of it
Is this a re-release? I could have sworn I had watched something from you about this case already. Regardless, thank you for the upload! Love your content.
I am from Panama all the new were covering that these tourists girls were lost, being lost in a tropical forest with different kind of animals is scary AF, only using a camera for light source at night and not being able to call emergencies :( I can't deny that maybe they could encounter someone in the forest but I don't think they were "followed"
@@novinceinhosic3531 no not that. I meant saying she’s “too politically correct” when she just has a different opinion. Nothing in that comment indicates her defending anyone of any race
@@novinceinhosic3531 maybe it’s a little aggressive but I don’t think race had anything to do with it. It just sounds like she thinks people are being dramatic. The fact that your mind immediately went to a race thing is a little weird ngl
It is jungle. There are many things that would eat them dead or alive. The bleaching is odd but would not he surprised if there are natural lime deposits or other natural elements that could cause it. The clean fracture suggest one of them might have gotten injured while alive. I do believe they got lost. Thinking they were headed back down but on opposite side of ridge.
@@plumdutchessTake a deeper look into the case, there was definitely fowl play. The perfectly preserved backpack and remains that should have been damaged or decomposing. The tour guide going to their homes and finding conveniently hidden evidence. This wasn't just getting lost, they were hunted and tormented.
There was a German tourist who got lost in Panama while hiking. She was found by 3 men from the supposedly rescue team and kidnapped by them! This kind of stuff do happen in Panama. This case is very unclear! what about the taxi driver being found dead a year after the girls death? Why didn't the girls record a message or video for their loved ones? They had phones and camera with them!
i have a similar digital camera. Same concept but it’s highly likely that they deleted the pictures on the camera, and it just skipped a number. Or memory was lost like another comment said from water damage, etc.
the dna on the backpack could just be locals/hikers who tampered with the backpack wondering what it was. it doesn’t automatically indicate foul play. also it’s possible that investigators working in the case deleted that photo themselves because it was graphic or irrelevant. i don’t think foul play/murder is completely out of the question, however i’m more likely to believe that some sort of injury made them go off the path on accident out of panic and trying to find help, and the random pictures were used for light/trying to signal for help. the attempted passcodes was probably one of the girls trying to get in the other girls’ phone while one of them was unconscious or deceased. for some reason i’m inclined to believe that one of them died early on in the hike due to injury, instead of both of them at the same time. i think the other girl probably passed a few days/weeks later due to starvation, infection or an animal attack after failing to find her way back or get any help…… this whole thing is so sad to think about. rest in peace to both of them.
I also tend to believe the lost theory but the only question then is, why didnt they make a video to tell what happened. And I think the simple truth is: they, for a very long time, couldnt fathom that they wouldnt survive the situation. I imagine death could be standing right in front of you, eye to eye, and there still would be some part of you not convinced that you're about to die. I theorize that the girls thought this way till the batteries were very low or out, till it was too late.
i heard a theory about the wrong pins, it was that they were both injured and one had a head injury or was dehydrated and very out of it and couldn't remember her own pin, or that it was her friend who didnt know her pin but was trying to call for help as she tried to escape the forest and had left the friend where she was due to her broken ankle? Ive only heard the injury version of this case so this was very interesting and sad..
What if the night time pictures were taken in the same place because the girls got injured or lost and decided to stay in one spot to camp and then it got really dark (maybe the girls were probably scared of the dark) and so they decided to take pictures of their surroundings in case there was an animal or a person watching them..? In the video it said one of the girls ankle was found in a shoe.. maybe they were just walking around and she got injured.. and that's the reason they didn't take pictures of themselves, because they were in distress.
Also consider that the panamanian authorities may not have investigated thoroughly or a few things may have been covered up to avoid decrease in tourism. Perhaps they were lost at first but as they were trying to find their way back to the main trail, they may have ran into a gang or certain people. They definitely did not die of an accident or natural causes though. There's too many odd details that point to homicide.
What do you mean theres too many odd details that point to homicide. There literally is zero. It was an accident. All of the evidence found points to them getting lost, had an accident, and was unalived by nature. If you think there are odd details, that just means you dont know much of the case. everything is going to look odd because you dont know what caused those odd things. If you look at it with an educated perspective, you'll know each step of the way was a decision they made of being lost in a jungle.
For me, this is by far the creepiest missing persons case. And really no new information has come out at all in years. Surprising no one has gone down and vlogged that trail. If they have I can’t find it.
Maybe it was a combination of both. They did get lost and hurt, tried to call for help and during this time someone found them and instead of helping took their lives. So both theories would prove to be true.
I mean, the moment i heard that two young women were going to central America alone, i instantly knew there would be foul play. That they then decided to go hiking on their own into the wilderness... Yeah, that's not very bright. There's this other case of two Danish women going to Morocco, where they are subsequently kidnapped and beheaded by deranged islamists. Those perps were caught though, but that doesn't change how utterly mindbogglingly stupid it was for them to go there and expect no harm would come to them. The rest of the world is NOT like the Netherlands or Europe, a significant portion of the world is run on violent crimes and innocents are constantly erased from existence for even the smallest of things. NEVER trust that you will be safe anywhere, not even inside the Netherlands or similar. But EXPECT that you are NOT safe the moment you leave for a third world country. The only reason i would be going to one of these places would be as part of a military operation to end the madness that takes place there and install a secure civil society.
Could foul play happen? Yes. But it is possible that the girls got lost after going to the bathroom, as happened to Geraldine Largay. And, if they followed a river downriver, they could be hit by a strong flood, very common in the Brazilian summer.
I've always felt the night time flashes were to frighten animals. Cleanly detached feet have fairly often been found inside of high flotation running shoes as the result of drowning and immersion in water for an extended period. And after two months in the jungle we have to use the word foot very loosely. There wouldn't be a lot of skin or muscle left.
Way too comments applauding the channel and not nearly enough about any new revelations, updates, lack of updates or any theories about this case. It is a good channel so I’m not knocking the host; just some of the people commenting.
I remember seeing this case on the news I was still a child, my friends grandma it's from Boquete she thinks they encountered a cannibal tribe since they're common in that zone. This case still creeps me out.
This is why you need a compass… I learned this when camping the first time with someone who didn’t want to follow my lead and kept going off track. It threw me off slightly cuz I had to keep changing directions to ensure they were always visible to me.
Note: I made a video about this case a few years ago (back when I first started the channel) but put it on private because I wanted to re-make it from scratch with better editing and research. This is the new video.
I wondered where that video went
I love the increase in quality, great channel tbh
I don’t know who you are..but number 1.) your voice is so soft..reminds me of that bee lady’s videos (this is a compliment I swear) 2.) Your videos are AMAZING.
@@ThatOtherRaccoonI respectfully concur,she has a very pretty voice 👍
The last video you made was really good as well i was trying to find it
There’s a story of an older woman who got lost in the woods and was only a few miles from the trail. Rescuers failed to locate her. It took 2 years for someone to stumble across her campsite and remains. That story and this one is a warning about how dangerous the woods are. It doesn’t always come from something mysterious or a murderer. Getting lost is just as dangerous.
I got lost in Epping Forest as a kid. I went way off track.
@@earthman6700are you still there?
@@variniaspartacus5860yeah i got lost with him we built a civilization
@@variniaspartacus5860 Still off track if that's what you mean 😜
@@earthman6700lmao good one
this case really creeps me out especially since it’s no joke to get lost while hiking overall it gives me bad vibes rip to the victims
At the same time, this could’ve been avoided. They didn’t need to go so far into the jungle (like if that’s the case, what idiot would do that?), much less in a country surrounded by other countries that are known to have many cartel related activities take place
For years I walked in the local park early in the morning while it was still dark (on a road) and whenever there was a really dark moonless night I would think about those girls. They must of been terrified. RIP ladies.
@@IPS-FFF72until you've spent days in the jungle, cold and knowing you will likely never come home again, you have no right to blame either of these girls
@@user-ik7vm1kt6q what is this logic lol
@@IPS-FFF72it was from all descriptions an easy and safe route, with no real way to go wrong
The fact that they first called 112 suggests they were the ones calling.
I think one of them got hurt. They got lost and panicked.
Yep i read most stuff about this case and they had journals where they were obsessed with the waterfalls. They probably heard one, went there and got lost.
Unprepared and being Dutch, i know 99% of teenagers in the Netherlands or young adults would not survive in the jungle.
No clothes, no shelter, no survival skills, they were sadly dependent on people finding them
Yep. I agree 100%. There are many people who just want this to have a twist or conspiracy hidden in it but sadly all the evidence and logic shows that they got lost and died. One of them got hurt which explains the phone lock attempts as logic states it was the other girl desperately trying to get into her friends phone to see if it had a signal but also not knowing the passcode so she was desperately guessing. This case is tragic.
none of this makes sense if you take the hair picture into account. Perfectly clean hair...
@@KarmaGeeGee it's "clean" but it's a mess of knots and all over the place. they were near a river she could probably easily rinse her hair if it got dirt in it
@@nickd1930 they dont want a twist ir conspiracy for the fun of it.. the conspiracy literally stems from the bones being scattered and bleached
The 77 times the phone got turned on either without a passcode or the wrong password, doesn’t necessarily signify foul play as it could simply be Kris checking her phone for a signal as IPhones typically has its signal on the top left without entering a passcode
@@RyanReeves-ic4rx It's a signal of someone opening the phone and either entering a wrong password, or not entering one at all. Because if you were not the owner and didn't know the password, you would not enter one.
But even if there were all wrong password attempts, if Kris was not able to use her phone for whatever reason, I don't think it's too crazy to imagine Lisanne trying to get into her phone - and failing - to contact emergency services
@@In.New.York.I.Milly.Rock. dont they have dedicated emergency button on the lockscreen?
@@stagedlife it probably wasn’t on the older phones, not 100% sure though
@@LEM0N.GL0W android implemented that in 2011 and iphone 2017 💀
Sad ending, but the immediate alarm bells that were raised the morning after they went missing by a TOUR GUIDE is very commendable on his part.
If you missed your guided tour with someone in the USA, you wouldn’t be reported missing until your family realized you were gone, and that’s if you have family.
maybe it was him
what makes you think that?
Bruh the tour guide is the biggest suspect
@@AndrewF321if you go down the rabbit hole of this case there are many evidences against him
Yes as other commenters have mentioned, if you do more research on this case the tour guide is super sus.
A couple things to clarify:
1) The backpack was actually originally found dirty and wet, with the investigators waiting for the electronics to dry before searching them. The claim that it was found clean seems to stem from a misinterpreted article.
2) People have recreated the same camera model skipping a photo number by deleting it directly on the camera, by having it fall, or having it sustain water damage.
I think they either got lost or slipped and got injured or somehow immobilized. The "suspicious" stuff actually convinces me that foul play didn't happen. Manually deleting photos, faking 112 calls, scattering body parts in the jungle, etc. Seems like an insane amount of effort and risk when it would be much easier and safer to make sure that bag and those bodies were never found.
everything you said i completely agree with, but what about the bone bleaching tho, and even if it were foul play… why?
@papagramps1257 I read that the bleaching effect can happen naturally
@@papagramps1257 Unfortunately, can't give you links because TH-cam will block them, but it seems like all the reports of bleaching from a chemical comes from the same Daily Beast article. The Lost in the Jungle authors claim they got access to the autopsy report that mentions the bleached bone which states it is within the bounds of sun bleaching. But of course, unless we have access to everything, I doubt we will ever know the clear answer.
why was the foot broken clean off?
@@yaykruser because of the nature of the ankle joint - the talus is only connected by ligaments so once those decompose, theres nothing left to hold it attached to the body. this is well known in forensics so im not sure why she missed that, because everything else was well researched
I feel like the most likely scenario would actually be a combination of the two. The 112 calls really only make sense to be from the girls themselves since it’s the Dutch emergency number and not the local one. However the way the remains were found looks more like murder. I feel like they might have been lost and subsequently found by someone with bad intentions when they were already weakened from spending nights in the forest.
I absolutely agree.
The way the remains were found is actually fully in line with them being lost and dying while lost. All the evidence and logic shows that is what happened here. It's tragic but it is what it is. People just like to add more mystery to cases like this so they add a secret killer to the mix but all facts show they got lost, one of them got hurt and unresponsive probably from a fall (their posts show they were desperate to experience being on top of a waterfall which hints at their mindset) and the remaining girl tried to use her friends phone for help but couldn't guess the passcode.
@@nickd1930how did the bones of one girl get bleached and how did 1 picture get erased from à computer?
@@Dahlia44222 Bones get easily bleached by the sun. It's why bones left in the dessert are stark white.
@@plumdutchessHaven't you been watching this video? It explicitly states that the time was too short for the bones to have been bleached by sun. 🤦
I'm glad you went through the timeline from both the girls' and authority's point of view simultaneously. Really puts into perspective how long they were out there for still trying to find service. Also super interesting to see how people have found all the nighttime photos were taken in the same location, you included a lot of small details I'd never heard about. keep up the amazing content
Getting lost is so scary because it's so simple. You can get turned around and get lost more easily than you might think. There have been cases of people losing their sense of direction and ending up dead just meters from the trail. The way simple things can change your life forever...
Very warmed to hear that the tour guide reported them missing so quickly. He did exactly what he should have.
I really want to know more specifics about the phone opening 77 times. You said "putting the wrong passcode OR not entering a passcode," and these are very different things. How many were wrong passcodes and how many were nothing? Plus, it's very reasonable that Lisanne was trying to get in but she doesn't know the code and Kris was incapacitated.
Yes very true!!! So simple to get loss
Its scary how easy it is to turn your life around or kill yourself… just one simple mistake and you’ll lose your hand or something..
I don't think the police (??) could tell which parts were them trying to put the passcode in and which parts were just them checking the signal since you don't need to put in the passcode to do that. They just know that the phone was opened
Exactly, it’s so easy to get lost no matter how smart and strong you are
No
I remember this case vividly as I am from the Netherlands and have seen it on the news many times. The Netherlands was absolutely captivated by this story and the search for these women. When they found the camera and the photos, man, that sent shivers down my spine. My thoughts were that they made the night-time pictures to scare off animals or be able to see in the dark. Chilling to think of what they might have gone through.
I believe it was foul play, but yes I agree that they seemed to have used the flash to scare wild life while making noises with rocks or a branch.
However, I live in the north of Argentina, right next to the Amazonas jungle, and you have no idea how many tourists, especially from Europe like to go full adventurous and wander off the limits of the assigned touristic spots and trails ignoring the warnings to get pictures in more exotic remote places. And they end up hurt, lost or worst losing their lives to nature and wild life. (We have panthers and even anacondas capable of swallowing a full adult humans in here)
Regardless of how sensational these stories may be at home, it would be smarter to encourage friends and family to avoid being brave and adventurous in places and environments you may have no skills to survive in.
@@acfan8253i think so many Europeans underestimate it, because we barely have any animals that can kill you. And Europe is small and so densely populated that it is hard to go more than a few hours on foot away from civilization, especially in central Europe.
It's fun for people to make up stories with ghosts and things like this but usually it's very boring.
Some hispanic men raped and murdered the women.
Happens all the time.
I’m assuming phones didn’t have flashlights at that time? I kept wondering why they would take photos for light and then I realized maybe phones didn’t have flashlights.
I also wonder why they wouldn’t have used the flash to see during earlier nights. Why only April 8th?
Perhaps the other nights they settled down to rest before dark. So they knew what was around them. So what was different about the 8th?
Maybe the 77 password errors was the other girl trying to enter the phone, but not knowing the password. This would fit the theory that one of them was lost, injured, or in danger. It makes more sense than if an assailant was trying to enter the phone. If I was an assailant, I would not waste my time trying to figure out a password of a stranger. If I was a friend though, I may feel that i know enough about my friend to guess their password. The friend may have felt she had a chance by trying middle names, pet names, birthdates, etc. To me, trying to find a password 77 times is something her friend would try rather than an attacker. Also, I believe the photos could've been taken by the friend. On my phone, there are two options you can click before logging in. They are 1) take a photo 2) emergency calls. The two icons are right next to eachother. I think it's plausible that while she was trying to use the call button, or just desperately trying to unlock the phone by clicking a bunch of buttons, that a few accidently pictures could be taken.
This really makes a lot of sense.. I was really wondering why the attacker would want to unlock the phone when they could already delete one of the pictures so wouldn't it mean they could've also done other stuff? I feel really bad for the girls, just imagining how scary it was.
I think the nighttime pictures were from the camera, not the phones.
I was looking for a comment like this one ! That seems plausible.
But the 77 password errors weren't just incorrect pins. They were also just the phone being turned on without any password. I had a theory about the deleted image matching up with the phone errors. Like you said, on iPhone, two options show before logging in. Take a photo, or emergency calls. That means you don't need a password to delete a photo, which possibly matches up with the deleted image. It could've been anything, but I feel like it could've been any recognizable feature to show that they were in danger and that was their location.
@taespano34 I would totally believe this case was a simple "they got lost" situation if the bleached bones didn't happen. There is no explanation to that besides someone wanted to hide something. If the killer hadn't done that, we literally would not have known.
It’s very easy to get injured hiking/camping. I’ve almost slipped off into a ravine and hit by a dead tree, that broke off in the middle. They most likely were gravely injured. :(
And me falling was due to heavy rain coming in randomly, making me rush. There’s so many scenarios
the tik tok guy who finds places on maps is needed for this
Damn!!! Where is he with that fabulous pitched up version of "Dream On" when you need him the most?
Though he can tell where it is from the picture, he is definitely at least a few kilometres off for these situations as everything looks uniform in a forest. Plus, it’s dark in half of those photos and it happened 10 years ago. Even if he found it, it’s too late to recover any good evidence.
More importantly, he does stuff that's visible from Google Street view most of the time, it's pretty unlikely that a deep obscure park trail in Panama would be on there and he therefore most likely woildnt have the resources he normally uses.@@TheFutureDothDream
you're probably referring to rainbolt. he's not the only one with that capability and many in the FBI get paid for that. however, they probably wouldn't be able to do much in a case like this one.
@@a.31415yeah, he's pretty good with geo guesser, which require previously captured images/path documentation. i doubt there would be proper path documentation here, like a google maps car or some sort.
Dutch forensics said that it's very likely that they fell of a cliff nearby with a pretty steep drop and got extremely wounded. There's no way to climb back up without proper equipment (expecially when hurt) so that could explain why they kept walking. There's also several waterfalls nearby which could explain the remains in the river.
They called the chance of there being any kind of foul play or murder involved "extremely unlikely", saying there's virtually no evidence whatsoever that this was the case.
I personally feel like some of the "facts" in this video might just be reddit "forensic experts", and no conclusion from actual research. But who knows.
What about the bleached bones
@@tzuyuwu786 the reason I'm bringing up the forensic team is partially because of that.
If it really was that obvious that the bones were bleached or touched by some kind of chemical, why would they ever make a statement saying there's no evidence and foul play being very unlikely.
There seem to be very little concrete sources for the claim, and the links quoted on Wikipedia has one behind a pay wall and the other doesn't even mention it. The problem with high profile cases like these is that information comes in from all sides, and origins of the information are often lost or twisted or made way more dramatic. I'd rather trust a forensic team than some info that barely has a source at this point
What about the 13 dna samples?
@@kko9329 "This is not a concern as the backpack was further touched by the (male) police officer who collected it and other persons in the chain of custody before being tested.
The DNA analysis should not be overvalued as the DNA found is most likely from the persons who found and handled the backpack after its discovery."
Fact is, DNA gets on stuff in a lot of ways. Could be remnants of someone they interacted with before the hike, someone who found the backpack, or anything inbetween. Assuming foul play just because there's DNA on something is a bit of a leap
yeah, the bleaching part sounds a bit sus to me, but i've always been curious about the other evidence contradicting natural decomposition - stuff like the pelvis being broken in half when that is supposedly pretty unlikely for a young person's pelvis, or the absence of marks on the bones that would've suggested natural decomposition in a river. there's even that whole thing with the piece of skin supposedly attributed to lisanne, found in much earlier stages of decomposition than the rest of the remains. but, of course, there's so many rumors and so much inaccurate/maybe mistranslated information, plus alleged mishandling of the investigation/the evidence by panamanian authorities, it's kind of difficult to know what's true and what isn't.
When the owner of the phone went unconscious from the broken ankle the other girl attempted to open her phone. Not really hard to figure out why there would be wrong attempts to unlock.
Yes, also after dehydration kicks in, your mind starts to slip and fine motor skills diminish
100%. when you’re lost in the woods you can get extremely disoriented as well
Um no ur wrong
the photos taken in the dark scare me so bad. I'm so afraid of the dark. If i was in that situation, I would be too scared to even take flash photos. I think I would just curl up in a ball, try to cover myself with some bushes, and try to be silent and have a panic attack. I would almost rather die
If you find the ankle inside the shoes strange, there's a video of a rockclimber that falls down like 2 meters or below and just cripple his ankle, even though there was a mat on the ground. Depending on how you fall down, the results can be dead serious.
You mean that one video where the guy's leg almost comes completely off?
@@all-s0rts Yes, it's an asian rock climber. After the fall it shows his foot just dangling off like he's been hit with a machete. Very grotesque.
Mas elas não eram alpinistas !! 😮@@graficandorealidades7561
a few years ago i fell 10 feet while bouldering onto a 3ft thick mat. broke my ankle in two seperate places, bruised my tibia pretty badly. it really does matter how you fall
interesting...they said the foot in the boot was a clean cut but who knows what that means without looking at it. maybe she passed out from shock if that did happen
I just found this channel the other day and I've been binge watching all of your videos. It's the fact that every video is genuinely so well edited and scripted. Looking foward to watching this and your future uploads
This is me today 😅 I got recommended this channel and I haven’t looked back since 😂😭
Same here. I was looking for more content like Wendigoons, where someone just explains what happened without being all dramatic or using spooky music. Stumble across this channel and they do exactly that, but with the added bonus of documented footage or interviews. This is genuinely one of the best channels on TH-cam for this kind of content full stop.
@@echobay2023 I love wendigoon too it’s crazy how quickly he blew up too I like some of those spooky ones too tho like lazy masquerade or chilling scares but I do love a straight to the point channel and the amount of research she does is on par or past dreading(the TH-cam channel)
@Ilikechamomile I don't even really a problem with those channels. I haven't come across those two you mentioned before, but someone I enjoy from time to time is Nexpo. He'll do that slow talking, dramatic pause, creepy music thing all the time, but I don't feel like I learned anything watching those videos. They're just kind of, "turn your brain off and have a good spooky time." Whereas with Wendigoon or now this channel, it feels like I am learning about the topic at hand. These channels peak my curiosity and make me want to do more research into the topics. Which as I get older, I find is becoming way more appealing to me.
I just saw my first video and subscribed right away so I can binge rn
damn every time I watch a video on their case it makes me nauseatingly sad. The fear and pain they went through is unimaginable.
Also, this is by far my favorite vid on this case! Everything about it is so well done! def binge watching ur vids till I fall asleep xD
how can u fall asleep! I get scared lol
Everyone only cares because it’s two who’re girls
What
@@danceyrselfkleenwho hurt you, brother
@@cinnamonliebemust be an andrew tate fan
You can't even begin to imagine what those poor girls went through. Chilling.
For real. The fact they only decided to take pictures on the 5th day being lost, why not any other day??
@@billblaski9523
They were conserving battery life.
@donquixote8462 hmmm not really a convincing reason
imagine them comforting each other, how did the last one process the first's death? did they die in the same event? was one of them alone? especially if it was an accident...
After years of speculation, I've come to the conclusion that, sadly, the girls actually did get lost and possibly one or both suffered an injury. I just find it confusing that they never took another photo after 508 documenting their circumstances. A really perplexing turn of events. A very sad case.
I think they were so terrified I mean think of this forest at night pitch black lots of unusual noises they’re not use too from animals they don’t know from their home country I think it is strange how they documented it though like if they were injured why not take pictures or film the injuries explaining what happenee
It's weird how the photos go from being two girls having a time of their lives to photos of the night sky, trees and the top of Kris' head. I have to wonder if Kris had already succumbed and Lisanne mentally and physically deteriorating couldn't document it.
@@all-s0rtswhat are the chances of both girls falling off the cliff? An their bodies not being found, also why a pic of the back of someone’s head? The way her hair was it looked like she way laying facedown cause the hair goes in all directions, foul play was definitely involved
@@all-s0rts………7:35 if she was standing it would be somewhat falling down, instead it’s scattered, why would her friend waste the flash on the back of her head when they could’ve used it to see ahead for a second
I've seen elsewhere that the well known local guide seen in this video was very suspect and has been reported before about making girls feel uneasy. They had this guide's card. I looked up the tour guide on Google reviews and the comments are quite revealing from tourists who used him before this happened.
thank you so much for shedding light for the girls disappearance. it must've been difficult for both parents to endure their daughters unknown cause of their disappearance. rest in peace lisanne and kris
I get the feeling that the people that like to believe they were followed etc. are those that either love making up drama or have never been in a dense wood/jungle. The kidnapper / killer theory makes no sense because in that terrain they could have easily done the crime and left no trace whatsoever.
Jungles are intimidating places, it is impossible to really understand how thick and hostile they can be unless you've been in one. I've been to many jungle areas in Asia and one of the key features is that mobile phone signal is lost very quickly even in national parks with main roads nearby. Even in the "clearings", it is still difficult to get a signal.
Another issue is that it is soo easy to get disorientated, overheated (even suffer heat stroke) and become panicked. You can also lose track of people who were only a few metres in front of you and not be able to hear them.
To me it really seems like these girls just sadly overestimated their ability, thought they would do "just an extra little bit" and got into trouble. This is a much more common cause of death than a random psychopath.
Even the backpack disappearing / reappearing could indicate someone found it and moved it to a more obvious spot (to be helpful) or didn't realise it wasn't just lost, or maybe it was moved by an animal.
i 100% agree w this
I completely agree, I don’t think a lot of people here realize just how complex and disorientating the forest, even more so a JUNGLE can be.. especially when you aren’t on a path. I can’t even begin to imagine how they felt.
Why were the bones bleached then
Agreed, people love to add murder to a sad situation to create drama, but for what? Their loved ones have to live with the fact they're dead but here are some couch experts on youtube turning their already horrible demise into an actual horror movie.
True, panic can set in very strong when you realize you're really lost. It's easy to spiral downward from there.
After watching The island with bear grylls which coincidentally was filmed in panama I think the most logical explanation is that they got lost. If you Google el mirador del pianista boquete panamá you can find multiple traveler photos of the trail. At the time they went on the trail there weren’t any signs or markers to indicate that the trail had ended. The girls didn’t speak Spanish and they weren’t from the area. The trail doesn’t have signs or a post that indicate which way back to town. After exploring beyond the mirador for close to 3 hours, the girls panicked when they realized they were going in circles and it was getting dark soon.
The jungle is pitch dark and there are tons of predators which include snakes, spiders, jaguars, cougars, coyotes. Plus reports at the time indicated that rain had slowed down the rescue efforts. My best guess is they tried to climb to high ground in order to get a cellular signal.
The night pictures showed what appears to look like S.O.S sign with white paper. The camera appears to have been used as a flashlight as there was proof of pictures taken with flash every 9 seconds standing in the same spot. The night pictures also indicate they were on high ground overlooking a steep drop below.
At some point it appears they tried to follow the culebra river until they reached a town. Unfortunately the culebra river runs to the Caribbean side which would take them farther away from boquete.
I don’t believe that they were killed by a gang of local boys that followed them into the jungle because it would be easier to dig a grave and bury the girls and all their belongings and ensure they vanished without a trace instead of turning phone off and on 77 times on several days and taking 100’s of photos in order to make it appear the girls were lost in the jungle. Lastly, it doesn’t make sense to fold all the girls belongings and put camera in waterproof bag so that someone can find it later.
@KareemAbdul-jabberUFCthey didn't just leave them. They would have had to take hundreds of pictures and somehow murder them without any show of force on the autopsy. They just died from exposure
Actually its confirmed that the trails were marked sooo! It was foul play.
@@spjr99 Wow ur ears conveniently didn't work at certain points of this vid!
@@crystalfelicia9924 the trails WEREN’T MARKED. You can clearly see that during 2014 a Panamanian news crew tried to retrace the steps of the missing girls. There are NO MARKINGS. th-cam.com/video/pu-YgDviqfE/w-d-xo.htmlsi=NpzYtX-BtXb1jF82
@@crystalfelicia9924 Marking trails doesn't make it impossible to get lost.
Listen, as an avid viewer of JCS, Dreading, and Explore with Us, you are a breath of fresh air. I love your videos, keep it up!
Big jcs fan here too 😂 love this channel. Just gives the information with no extra anything
I grew up in Panama, and I remember when my and my family visited Chiriqui and Boquete around the time these girls went missing and seeing their missing posters. Scary, and not too long later they found the severed foot. We all thought for sure it was foul play or some animal that got to them. Either way, tragic. I hope their families are ok.
The nightime photos give me chills.
As someone afraid of the dark, I'm 100% certain those are photos they took because they couldn't see where they were going and were using the flash as light.
My gut instinct is that they were being followed, chased, and knew it.
They called 911, the host, looking for helping. Was using the flash as light to see where they were going because they probably got lost during a tense and very frightening pursuit.
Not a happy ending.
Someone following them would also be an explanation for why they left the trail and pushed deeper into the woods. Maybe they thought they could avoid whoever was stalking them and then loop back around, but got quickly got lost.
They could have used one of the phones for flashlight and keep the other off to keep finding signal later on. But of course due to the stress and anxiety maybe they didn’t think of this and went for the camera flash that would only give them a fraction of a second light period each time.
Something makes me think they were either trying to scare wild life with the flash while making noises with rocks or a branch or they were documenting a third party that was a threat for them or luring then into some trap while acting as a rescuer. Which would explain the missing/deleted photos.
Had not thought of that possibility. Could be.
The chase part is probably fear of the dark getting the better of you xD
I'm thinking maybe trying to conserve battery by just taking a pic for light instead of turning it on as a flashlight, also would make more sense because of the same plant in multiple pictures, meaning they were taken from the same place and same direction.
But the case as a whole, yeah my bet is on gang kidnapping.
True because I’m not sure older phones had flashlight options?? 2014 maybe already got them added but idk
I love that you're still making quality videos despite the algorithm blatantly ignoring your content. I found you via your video on the German family that got lost in the desert and couldn't find your channel afterwards. This video just got recommended to me. Glad to have found you again and I hope many people get to enjoy your videos. The case of the two Dutch girls in Panama has always felt very personal to me since it made me remember all the potentially dangerous situations I put myself into when I lived & studied abroad. Going on solo early morning hiking trips when it's term break and all of your dorm roommates are abroad or visiting their families was probably not the best idea. Everything worked out fine but they'd never have found me if it didn't because I didn't leave notes and no one knew where I went. I got lost so many times I could've been ine of those cases where they just have CCTV footage of people getting if a bus somewhere. The two girls' story made me remember to at least leave a note or contact s.o. before I go out exploring the world on my own 😮.
Well it recommended me so they didn’t ignore her that hard
As a solo traveler as well you are really dumb. I have no empathy for people like you when something bad happens. If you don’t care for your life why should anyone else?
I've been hiking in my family's owned forest, and its easy to underestimate how easily you can get lost when you wander off the trail. I remember looking back and not recognizing any of the trees I've just passed.
Word of caution:
*Never* will a story have a happy ending if it begins with _"2 young white girls go hiking alone in the South American jungle..."_
Reminds me of the scandinavian girls who thought going to morroco alone would be a great idea. I just don't understand the thinking, like the people who biked into syria to spread love and peace.
@@lillemy5062 it's not that they went to Morroco alone, it's that they decided to camp by themselves in a remote area with no guide or protection, after spending a whole day in a village where two young blond scandinavian girls really don't go unnoticed
racist
@@princesadelaos wahhhhhhh
Definitely going with the lost theory. A few people posting here have been lost and I was as well. I mean I wasn’t really lost but I was on a trail and couldn’t find my way back. I would see hikers all around me so I wasn’t in a dangerous situation. BUT it took me hours to find my way back (it should’ve taken minutes). I was really dehydrated. I feel so bad for these girls
the girls getting lost can explain the incorrect pin on phone, if one of them was hurt or unconscious. the other trying to use her friends phone without knowing the pin, wouldn't be unusual. especially since in that situation they'd be even more frantic and desperate
the bleaching is weird but maybe there is a natural explanation we're not familiar with at the moment. either way very sad
I think most people fail to understand the mindset of these girls. But it is in their diaries for all to read. Lisanne was very practical and organized. But she did get sick quite a bit. Kris went through a crisis in Panama feeling homesick and insecure. She hated that and was determined NOT to contact her parents about it and do this trip all alone no matter what, without bothering her family. And that is how they went up the trail. Thinking to do it all alone and prove themselves as adults and as women...in totally the wrong place to do so....unprepared...ill equipped. And that is understandable because our society entices girls and women to seek and express power...often in stupid ways. let us be honest here and discuss how badly they went about it;
- they wore very little clothes! Anybody going hiking should wear protective clothing that covers your entire body. It seems they may have removed their bra's at some point which makes perfect sense. You do not want tight underwear when doing physical activity in a rainforest. Even the military teaches their troops this very same thing.
- they had very little water. 2 little bottles can be seen from the evidence. This is so understandable...the girls thinking to bring a little store bought bottle of water and hey we be fine....NO! You need as much water as you can carry to begin with! They should have carried 4 liters at least for the trail but they even went beyond that trail.
- they did not bring anything else to help them hiking. No first aid kit, no compass, no knife or anything to help a person in the forest. No lighters or matches....nothing at all. A recipe for disaster.
This should be a lesson to hikers and young women especially. DO NOT TAKE NATURE LIGHTLY AND NEVER IN A PLACE YOU ARE SO UNFAMILIAR WITH.
STAY SAFE ALWAYS.
Once, hiking with my friend, we got lost in a snowstorm and completely missed our turn. After climbing a couple of hours in a wrong direction, knee deep in snow and zero visibility - we realized that something is odd, as we had not met any person on the trail.
What did we do? We traced our steps back, gradually returning to the original junction. Even though, we had an idea just to climb a hill and watch from there where to go.
The point is - the simplest ideas are usually the safest. Take your time to understand the situation you are in, consider the options and decide if your life is at risk.
+ always leave a not to someone where do you go and when you are expecting to be back
Up. This explains it all.
Sure but find your footsteps in the rainforest
@@yor4858have you ever hiked in your life?
Guys, don't go into the woods. There's a reason why humanity keft the jungle.
I love this channel! I have a passing interest in true crime but I'm turned off of a lot of other channels that cover it bc they sensationalise it so much and there's something about someone talking about horrific murders and then going " - and now a word from our sponsor, Audible!!" that makes me feel icky. Your videos are well researched, edited and presented, and you just give the facts in a way that's easy to follow and relatively "neutral", and I really appreciate that. It's important for topics like disappearances, cults, true crime etc to be learned about and discussed, and I'm glad that you do it in a way that's informative and that feels respectful to the victims.
the word icky makes me homicidal but i agree about the sponsor thing. one of my friends was murdered a few years ago and it was a high profile case that was covered by many true crime youtubers. i remember watching one out of curiosity and i had to turn it off immediately after "this video is sponsored by raid shadow whatever ajdkfhdh i love this game sooo much now anyways!!! let's talk about the brutal murder of a 17 year old!" like it's just so corny idk.
Thanks! Love the vids and hope the channel gets more attention soon
Why would the killers leave the camera? Simply throw it away or destroy it the money was also left untouched. Days in the jungle without food would leave you disorientated and Confused that's why those poor girls probably couldn't unlock the phone whichever Theory it's totally heartbreaking
Maybe they did it to make it seem like the girls got lost, and successfully got away with it
Maybe they wanted to send a message 🤔
I have been so drunk that I cant talk yet I could phone my girls number to come pick me up yet they cant enter 4 digits? Leaving the money would be genius of the killer same with the camera & photos.
Yeah it doesn't make sense.if they got murdered It's most likely a cartel, they're very thorough with disposing of evidence and this seems like a shoddy job.
I have lived in several countries in Latin America included Panama. I work for an European company so I have always had European colleagues. They always travel so carelessly, and alone most of the times. They put themselves in unnecessary danger, but they don't care if you warn them.
way to generalise, genius
As a Panamenian, the theories of what happened to the girls are pretty crazy. The most crazy one i've heard is were it is believed that the indios conejos kidnapped the girls then ate them and somehow managed to bleach their bones. In my opinion, the trail is very well marked and it doesnt just make sense they got lost.
i’m curious what is indios conejos?
@@bernik9131Probably cannibals given the "ate them" sentence.Howevee that's just a theory...
They went hiking without a guide
@@kayllenstarships9009I don't know you know they looked pretty tasty
@@gameseeker6307 didnt it say in the video they looked up the trail beforehand, the tour guide was the one who reported them missing, and they had a map?
509 picture could be explained by the fact that the camera fell in the water and only ended up working a few days aftrr. I think someone tested it
Outstanding video. I’ve seen tons of other channels cover this topic but each one seemed to leave out different details making for an unsatisfying watch. You covered details that I hadn’t seen elsewhere and gave a thorough explanation of the current theories. Awesome stuff as usual!
My grandpa gave me some advice when I was probably too young to hear it, but I actually always appreciate it when I hear a story suspected of foul play. He told me while everyone has to worry about being assaulted, so long as you have what you have between your legs you must live cautiously. Is it fair no, should I have to worry about such a thing no, but that is wishful fantasy, the reality is you do have to worry about it, and you must live with your wits about you. Don't talk to strangers while under the influence or put yourself in an unpredictable situation without having a backup plan A and B.
I believe the difference between paranoia and caution is a disciplined mind. You don't have to be afraid to live but understand in the jungle of life, the jackal prowls.
And a big-ass knife, big-ass knife also helps, props to grandpa tho 😆
@@spaljenibackup9339 I normally carry. I have a license to carry concealed, 38 snub nose. Now if I am going hiking I'm bringing much more than that. I will not become a statistic without giving at least one of them the room temperature challenge first.
@@IAmOddGirl I’m sure a lot, and I mean A LOT, of cases concerning female victims could’ve ended differently if they were taught to stay strapped.
@@arcturus4762 I had an incident happen to me that changed my mind on safety forever. Two men that i considered family/best friends for life broke into my house and..well i dont need to explain that right? We had been inseparable since high school and i guess just out of shock I just laid there on the floor for most of the day I dont even know how long it took me to drag myself into the bathroom and ran the water still half clothed in torn shirt and underwear. I never turned them in, i was in denial i think that two ppl i used to say I love you too every single day would do this. I didnt feel sorry for myself for long it turned into hate and its never really gone away. I got my license to carry, became addicted with training to be in the best shape i can possibly be, and I go to the range every single weekend that I can, along with homies with private property that let me shoot at targets, mostly military friends who can teach me something. (I live in the sticks so its farmers and country folk) I now own a bathroom size safe filled with enough weapons and ammunition to arm a small militia, I have motion lights surrounding my entire house roof, I had steel doors installed to replace my wooden doors, and mesh glass installed replacing every window. Now I sleep soundly lol. But yeah maybe it just takes learning how cruel the world can be, how unsafe we all truly are, and how even those you love with all your heart can turn on you at any time. I keep my head on a swivel when i am outside my house. I am grateful for the life lessons. I used to see the world differently, but in some ways I am appreciative of the raw truth I know view life with.
There is nobody coming to help you is the best truth to understand to me.
@@IAmOddGirl Sound advise lady. I am a 50 year old woman living in San Francisco, and i fear for my safety everytime i leave my apartment. I enjoy fishing and venture through a very isolated path to get to my beach. I carry bear spray and a Buck knife. I would love nothing more than to buy a '38 snub nose' ( i looked it up and this seems perfect for me as well ) but finding a gun store in the Bay Area is impossible. I will need to do more research. Thank you for your input and i'm very sorry this terrible thing happened to you.
I believe that FELICIANO was part of it, the two girls spoke different language and didn't know much about the place, they were easy prey sadly. It's quite suspicious that first thing he does it's to search to them in the room. Also Nina von Rönne, a photographer who stayed with the tour guide in 2015, was so creeped out by him she wrote a book about him. Her book is called "Ne t'en fais pas, nous sommes amis..." (Don't worry, we are friends...), which is something he kept telling her when he tried to touch her
+ also he was the one who found some of the girls remains!!
If you get lost. STOP. They will know roughly where you are. If you keep walking, you won't be found.
A shoed foot detaching from a body when left in open water is not uncommon
This is really sad. It must've been scary for those girls, I can't imagine how much fear they were in. I think what happened was they were too excited and went on for a bit off trail and then got lost. They panicked and tried to call the police to find them. They kept going but they were too tired, and then it got dark, and they have like zero visibility. They probably used the phone flash as a way to get through the darkness but seeing how the pics are mostly within the same place and towards the sky, I think they were trying to get help. For some reason they didn't have reception maybe as they were deep in the forest. One of them got injured (or even both), fell of the cliff or somewhat, and that's probably where everything went downhill. Either they got separated and led to more accidents, or they both just died from falling or getting injured and no one came to help. Either way.. I'm so sorry that happened to these girls. There is still a possibility that there was foul play but unfortunately there wasn't enough evidence to support it. Though the bleached parts found are indeed odd.
9:30 to y'all saying there weren't really signs of foul play bc of the phone records: parts of their bones (clean cut foot and BLEACHED PELVIC and RIB BONE, etc) and belongings were found in different areas in a way to me screams foul play. how would a piece of her pelvis just be somewhere away from her body ? and the foot was too clean cut to be an animal, i don't believe they had weapons so it couldn't have been them
To me, the fact that the official theory is that the girls got lost coupled with the fact that the authorites haven't released all the pictures taken means they probably did get lost and got injured. Maybe those omitted pictures are revelatory because that picture of a blonde head really creeped me out and I can't explain it in any context
About the photos being photoshopped, do they think someone would photoshop them and put them back in the camera?
Isn't photoshopped pictures "easily" identified by pros?
That’s what i was thinking
i feel really bad for their parents :( may they will be alright.
Poor girls, all they hoped for was a fun trip!
What a tragedy. They NEVER should have gone off by themselves.
It’s pretty obvious: three girls got off the trail by accident and one of them slipped and got hurt. The other girl decided to stay with her friend instead of looking for help, they kept waiting but no one found them, with helicopters flying by they probably thought it wouldn’t take long. As time passed by both girls either got too injured or too weak to move, they took those pictures to lighten the path and identify animals they were or just to try and get attention off search groups. After they died animals scattered the remains and the river damaged them. A local probably found the backpack but didn’t want to get involved so they just dropped it where they knew it would be found soon. One of the girls deleted the picture or a police officer involved in the car accident did it and no one cared at the time because it just wasn’t important.
That’s the only explanation that makes any sense, the rest is paranoia.
It is quite obvious that you have the mind of a 5-year-old child and you have not graduated from school.Animals do not carry remains over such long distances.Locals from Latin America live there."I found the backpack, but I returned it back because I was afraid of being involved."😂This is not Europe.There are people there who, for the most part, don't like white tourists.There could be gangs, cannibals, girls could be sold for organs, raped, whatever.
It was a bit eerie having this video pop up on autoplay as it mentions my country let alone the town where i live. Its a case forever haunted by only speculation and rumours, sadly anything i could bring to the table is truly only rumored, even with resurfacing recently with locals having bizarre accusations to other individuals still over here. The theory of it being edited does not sound right and the contradictions only circle into nothing cohesive enough. Here, this town is very safe and for something like this to happen as it is still a huge tourist attraction type of town and its still talked about today. I had never heard the case in full detail like this. Well done. We can only hope one day something can come to light for these families to be at peace.
U ok or no
the 112 call is definetly from the girls. The other 8 or 9 911 calls probably too. They must have lost their way and tried to get help.
Surviving in the forest for 7 days seems very unlikely though. Therfor all the nighttime pictures are very suspect.
Not to mention how pictures are deleted and the bones are plain dry. It takes longer than 7days for humans to decompose like tha...
They were near the river. They could survive long with water.
I am sorry, two young and attractive ladies hiking alone in some third world country? No offense. High chance you will end up badly.
tbh I find it very plausible that they got lost in the jungle and got injured etc ... In Europe and Netherlands for that matter, there are barely any really wild forests similar to this... and I would assume, if you have no experience in that area it is even easier to get lost.
Also, the nighttime photos could also be a way to get noticed. maybe they heard the helicopter and search party and tried this as a signal for help...
It's easy to say in retrospect that tthe flash was no use or that they could have left a message... but I guess being in a situation were you are in a panic and possibly badly hurt, being in shock.. it's not that easy. Poor girls really. They must have been so scared being alone out there
For everyone who believes in the lost theory what do you think about image 509 being deleted? What about the bones being bleached?
I’ve been reading a lot of the comments and while I don’t have the exact text of the comments I saw, people have pointed out that neither of these are as clear-cut as the video makes it seem.
It turns out that there are ways that this particular digital camera could have potentially skipped 509, including falling or getting wet. This also seems consistent with the shift from daytime to nighttime photos. After taking the daytime photos, the girls fall, maybe from a waterfall since it sounds like they really wanted to find one. In this fall the camera also takes a hit, and is still functional, but either the fall or water damage cause it to skip 509. Then the girls start using the flash of the camera to see at night. They aren’t actually concerned with taking pictures anymore, which is why the photos are exclusively at night. They’re either using it to see, or scare off animals they hear, or both.
The bone bleaching is odd, but there are still potentially natural explanations that we just don’t understand well enough. One commenter pointed out that vultures are known to cause some parts of the decomposition process to occur faster, and vultures have not really been considered heavily in forensic science until relatively recently. Further, there are some vultures native to Panama that may not be well studied. So it is at least possible that natural causes are to blame rather than foul play; they may just be natural causes with which we are not very familiar.
Also, if the bone bleaching could definitely be attributed to foul play, then it seems odd that the forensic scientists would all conclude that foul play seemed highly unlikely, unless of course there was some other factor like some sort of corruption or something.
Eaten by cannibal tribe
The foot in the shoe can be explained by the scavenging of animals. I live in a city that has an iconic bridge, and every so often someone'll find a severed foot in a shoe washed up on a shore. When someone commits suicide off the bridge, their body is picked apart by the marine life. The feet are usually all that is left because the shoes aren't knocked off by the force of the impact.
Damn. Hope the families find peace
I stumbled into this channel as the starting point of my Jonestown research and I've already begun binging its videos, every one you put out is incredibly well done and serves as a great summary of the events! I'll definitely be sticking around. 🍿🍿
oh wow! i just found this channel and am surprised to see this video here. i’ve grown up in panama and i remember being maybe 12 years old when these women went missing. it was really scary. there’s been a total of roughly 24 tourists missing in the past few years and most locals speculate there’s an indigenous serial killer up in the pianista. it’s still a popular tourist destination but the actual path the girls took is all overgrown now, plus it’s believed they went off path. it’s beautiful out there but it’s just so sad to think of what happened in our little mountain town. rest in peace girls
24 went missing in the same spot ?
12:40 I instantly thought of rainbolt, that dude needs to be a private investigator ASAP
I blamed the girls, curiousity killed the cat. They took too many steps foward to strange places.
If we have only found Lisanne's leg, who's to say she's dead?
i think i read somewhere that there was a cannibal tribe living in that area as well?
Unpredictable does it again 🤙 super good. Even though I’ve heard the story before, you had some great input. I tend to lean towards foul play, but we’ll never know
If one died before the other I really feel for the one left alone in that jungle.
Very bizarre. I think its either a mixture of both getting lost and assaulted, or just lost. More and more Im siding towards just lost tbh. Murder would make it unlikely to leave remains, after all. And everything else can be explained with circumstancial explanations. that missing image could have been easilly just erased after taking the later one, it being a reshot for example. Strange the what Im supposing to be a reshot isnt public yet. Question is whether #409 and 410 are nightime photos are still regular ones. the emergency calls, nothing to be said. The phone logins actually also could make sense, for example the other girl trying to log onto her friends phone, not knowing the pin because the other already died or something happened to her.
As far as the night pictures go, it could have been because they heard someone or something in the forest. Big predatory felines are known to live in Panama and they often have a preference for weak or injured prey. I can see how they might have used the flash of the camera to illuminate the area and check the pictures for the shape of a predator or the flash of nocturnal eyes. If the camera had the ability to enhance dark photographs, this would even further explain why they were using it in this way, and taking repeated photos of the same area. If I was convinced that a big cat was stalking me and my injured friend, I would want to make damn sure that noise was NOT something with teeth. Obviously, we can't see anything other than trees and ground and dark sky in the pictures, so maybe the cat was scared off, or maybe it wasn't there to begin with.
Literally just found this channel through the Jones town video. Found my new obsession, thank you for the new binge content, your videos are great quality and hope to see more of it
Is this a re-release? I could have sworn I had watched something from you about this case already. Regardless, thank you for the upload! Love your content.
She said that she wanted to redo this video so the other one was set to private.
they got lost and died. the fixation people have with making this case more suspicious and sinester that it truly is gives true crime brain rot
I am from Panama all the new were covering that these tourists girls were lost, being lost in a tropical forest with different kind of animals is scary AF, only using a camera for light source at night and not being able to call emergencies :( I can't deny that maybe they could encounter someone in the forest but I don't think they were "followed"
@@novinceinhosic3531that’s an insane stretch dude. Not everyone is trying to push a political agenda goofball
@@novinceinhosic3531 no not that. I meant saying she’s “too politically correct” when she just has a different opinion. Nothing in that comment indicates her defending anyone of any race
@@novinceinhosic3531 maybe it’s a little aggressive but I don’t think race had anything to do with it. It just sounds like she thinks people are being dramatic. The fact that your mind immediately went to a race thing is a little weird ngl
it’s actually sickening what humans are capable of doing to others, they didn’t deserve this
It's more likely they got lost and hurt. No foul play, just nature.
@@plumdutchesshow can you soconfidently deny all the overwhelming abduction evidence...
It is jungle. There are many things that would eat them dead or alive. The bleaching is odd but would not he surprised if there are natural lime deposits or other natural elements that could cause it. The clean fracture suggest one of them might have gotten injured while alive. I do believe they got lost. Thinking they were headed back down but on opposite side of ridge.
@@plumdutchessTake a deeper look into the case, there was definitely fowl play. The perfectly preserved backpack and remains that should have been damaged or decomposing. The tour guide going to their homes and finding conveniently hidden evidence. This wasn't just getting lost, they were hunted and tormented.
Plus, foreigners not trusting the locals, especially the trail guides
There was a German tourist who got lost in Panama while hiking. She was found by 3 men from the supposedly rescue team and kidnapped by them! This kind of stuff do happen in Panama. This case is very unclear! what about the taxi driver being found dead a year after the girls death? Why didn't the girls record a message or video for their loved ones? They had phones and camera with them!
i have a similar digital camera. Same concept but it’s highly likely that they deleted the pictures on the camera, and it just skipped a number. Or memory was lost like another comment said from water damage, etc.
the dna on the backpack could just be locals/hikers who tampered with the backpack wondering what it was. it doesn’t automatically indicate foul play. also it’s possible that investigators working in the case deleted that photo themselves because it was graphic or irrelevant. i don’t think foul play/murder is completely out of the question, however i’m more likely to believe that some sort of injury made them go off the path on accident out of panic and trying to find help, and the random pictures were used for light/trying to signal for help. the attempted passcodes was probably one of the girls trying to get in the other girls’ phone while one of them was unconscious or deceased. for some reason i’m inclined to believe that one of them died early on in the hike due to injury, instead of both of them at the same time. i think the other girl probably passed a few days/weeks later due to starvation, infection or an animal attack after failing to find her way back or get any help…… this whole thing is so sad to think about. rest in peace to both of them.
Why did they refuse to release the last photos to the public? And whose hand is that in IMG_580 7:37?
Maybe it was too disturbing to show on TH-cam or something
I also tend to believe the lost theory but the only question then is, why didnt they make a video to tell what happened.
And I think the simple truth is: they, for a very long time, couldnt fathom that they wouldnt survive the situation.
I imagine death could be standing right in front of you, eye to eye, and there still would be some part of you not convinced that you're about to die.
I theorize that the girls thought this way till the batteries were very low or out, till it was too late.
i heard a theory about the wrong pins, it was that they were both injured and one had a head injury or was dehydrated and very out of it and couldn't remember her own pin, or that it was her friend who didnt know her pin but was trying to call for help as she tried to escape the forest and had left the friend where she was due to her broken ankle?
Ive only heard the injury version of this case so this was very interesting and sad..
You can change camera settings to retain the image numbers so image 509 being missing doesn't mean it was deleted on a computer
What if the night time pictures were taken in the same place because the girls got injured or lost and decided to stay in one spot to camp and then it got really dark (maybe the girls were probably scared of the dark) and so they decided to take pictures of their surroundings in case there was an animal or a person watching them..?
In the video it said one of the girls ankle was found in a shoe.. maybe they were just walking around and she got injured.. and that's the reason they didn't take pictures of themselves, because they were in distress.
Also consider that the panamanian authorities may not have investigated thoroughly or a few things may have been covered up to avoid decrease in tourism. Perhaps they were lost at first but as they were trying to find their way back to the main trail, they may have ran into a gang or certain people. They definitely did not die of an accident or natural causes though. There's too many odd details that point to homicide.
What do you mean theres too many odd details that point to homicide. There literally is zero. It was an accident. All of the evidence found points to them getting lost, had an accident, and was unalived by nature. If you think there are odd details, that just means you dont know much of the case. everything is going to look odd because you dont know what caused those odd things. If you look at it with an educated perspective, you'll know each step of the way was a decision they made of being lost in a jungle.
For me, this is by far the creepiest missing persons case. And really no new information has come out at all in years. Surprising no one has gone down and vlogged that trail. If they have I can’t find it.
Maybe it was a combination of both. They did get lost and hurt, tried to call for help and during this time someone found them and instead of helping took their lives. So both theories would prove to be true.
If that would be the case I think it would be more logi al that they got lost because they were followed and became desperate
This was 100% gang/cartel activity
No, eaten by cannibal tribe
I mean, the moment i heard that two young women were going to central America alone, i instantly knew there would be foul play.
That they then decided to go hiking on their own into the wilderness... Yeah, that's not very bright.
There's this other case of two Danish women going to Morocco, where they are subsequently kidnapped and beheaded by deranged islamists.
Those perps were caught though, but that doesn't change how utterly mindbogglingly stupid it was for them to go there and expect no harm would come to them.
The rest of the world is NOT like the Netherlands or Europe, a significant portion of the world is run on violent crimes and innocents are constantly erased from existence for even the smallest of things.
NEVER trust that you will be safe anywhere, not even inside the Netherlands or similar. But EXPECT that you are NOT safe the moment you leave for a third world country. The only reason i would be going to one of these places would be as part of a military operation to end the madness that takes place there and install a secure civil society.
Could foul play happen? Yes. But it is possible that the girls got lost after going to the bathroom, as happened to Geraldine Largay. And, if they followed a river downriver, they could be hit by a strong flood, very common in the Brazilian summer.
I've always felt the night time flashes were to frighten animals. Cleanly detached feet have fairly often been found inside of high flotation running shoes as the result of drowning and immersion in water for an extended period. And after two months in the jungle we have to use the word foot very loosely. There wouldn't be a lot of skin or muscle left.
This is one of the best documentaries of this case that Ive seen here on youtube. Clear explanation with pictures.
And her voice is sweet and gentle. I have just fallen in love 💏💘
Way too comments applauding the channel and not nearly enough about any new revelations, updates, lack of updates or any theories about this case. It is a good channel so I’m not knocking the host; just some of the people commenting.
I’m blown away by how well made your videos are. This channel is going to blow up for sure!
Photoshop is easly to check, some software and online website exist that show the pixel editing density
Where its editied, its more dense
i remember seeing this in the news as a dutch kid. the footage is terrifying
I remember seeing this case on the news I was still a child, my friends grandma it's from Boquete she thinks they encountered a cannibal tribe since they're common in that zone. This case still creeps me out.
Yeah eaten by cannibal tribe
They could have been using the flash like a torch if their phones had died
This is why you need a compass… I learned this when camping the first time with someone who didn’t want to follow my lead and kept going off track. It threw me off slightly cuz I had to keep changing directions to ensure they were always visible to me.
The suspicious part is that some of the photos where never released. Why?