running? there's no motion blur, so someone was standing there to take the image. cell phones are bad about motion blur, so it's unlikely they were moving, probably someone who didn't know how to use the camera and taking an image (flash is obvious in the image) to check the path.
What if they took that last photo to check how far the drop looked, or if they would be able to climb a wall. Either one works since we don’t know the actual perspective. Although it looks like there’s a white figure in that photo as well at the top right. You can kinda look at the image as if they’re on the ground and the person is standing over in the distance. The picture taker didn’t notice it because it was faint. The figure may not have realized it either for the same reason.
could it be that she took the photo of the cliff depending on whats the perspective either fell or wanted to point out where everything went wrong? like maybe they fell from the cliff and wanted to document that
I had a similar experience in the Guatemalan jungle, complete with camera-flash-in-the-dark photos to light the way. We could hear shit crashing around in the bushes a few times (probably howler monkeys?) along with some other weirdness, and i can say it was indeed terrifying.
Not so scary if you can travel up to 7 km in seconds between the shots also the weather also changes in seconds I mean that literally Sunny to full on cloudy in 5 seconds. The camera memory card has been manipulated beforehand.
@@colecooper5836 You cant fully trust anyone anywhere honestly. Would you trust some random stranger in, lets say, denmark, in the middle of the forest?
@@Omar_05 everyone in my country doesn't trust the cops lol, its a public secret everything involving them will involve some bribing to actually move them
I'd take water, matches and food over a gun any day. Guns have extremely limited uses. Really though Machete/hatchet, water, emergency rations and a change of socks are standard hiking equipment.
Compasses are rather handy in these situations as well. I get that they won't exactly grant a bird's-eye view, but it'll at least help you keep your orientation and grant a sense of direction.
I’m dutch and I still remember my grandma bringing up this case time and time again to warn me not to go to isolated places and always telling someone where I am.
Best advice ever. If you are in a foreign land, do not know the dangers of the place, the best thing to do is to stay close to the largest group of people possible. Here in the third world, law enforcement isnt very good, so some may find compelling to commit one or another crime, knowing nothing will happen and their crimes will never be exposed. Being close to one another is the best defense in a land where the closest cop is 100km away...
@@vampirecount3880 Yes, and always have some self-defense weapon with you if possible. I always carry a knife when hiking/backpacking, mostly as a tool, but also as a means of self-defense. This is incredibly important in developing nations with poor police presence but rings true anywhere. It might not save your life but it will allow you to fight if needed. Also, never get complacent and always be vary. I wish I could guide and help everyone because my intentions are true, but unfortunately, sometimes bad people will get into positions of power and abuse them.
That deletion of the ONE picture is the biggest red flag for me. Like you said- deleting pictures is the last thing you would do, let alone only one specific one. Really creepy.
@@willknapp8751 Great theory except there was over 90 photos taken after that. Also the worst serial killer of all time to let them phone emergency services numerous times and not destroy any evidence
Yea, they 100% got raped and killed in the jungle. And there was zero incentive for the local police to solve the case as it would have hurt tourism big time.
TafTabTah probably cause she got a photo of who killed them or something and turned that shit off and that person was trying to delet the pictures but of course nothing will ever come from that bc that phone probably reset itself
@@02jeepwj but i don't understand how someone could be in the same place like what a shitty probability ,in the middle of the jungle i mean "he" must been following this girls from the beginning
It seems it could have been Kris herself, maybe she was injured and unable to press the right keys. It could also have been Lisanne trying to guess the code like Nexpo theorised or even the third party trying to get into the phone. The only issue with that last theory is, assuming image 509 was relevant and there was a third party, it would have already been deleted before then since Nexpo says the phone wasn't used again after the failed unlocking attempts.
yeah, maybe she took a flash photo to see if her friend was still down somewhere when she stopped answering..and got her answer.. id delete it too probably
I think it was a photo intended to show authorities of the broken of foot as her best effort of saving her friend then days later when her hopes of survival disappeared she could not stand the photo and deleted it and probably not thinking it would be a problem later for the authorities. (as "evidence" of this theory, she had A LOT of horrifying days to think about that scary picture which probably led to her deleting it) Very sad if you imagine that story line... Rest in peace Kris Kremers and Lisanne Froon.
I just read Lisanne's diary. So much of it is haunting when you know what will soon happen... particularly the opening lines. 'I would not like to be found dead in San Jose, though the chances of that are pretty high in San Jose. I could live in Bocas for the rest of my life. Maybe if I ever retire.' If this was a story it would be some major foreshadowing, both due to the reference of being found dead as well as spending the rest of her life there. In the middle of the diary Lisanne is crying and saying she feels like she is out of her depth, that she wants to go home to her parents and that she didn't really want to go on the trip but agreed anyway. She said Kris was there with her, but even she could not make this strange place seem more familiar. The final lines in her diary are the day before April 1st when they go missing. She is talking about how they were rejected from the daycare but that she needs to look on the bright side because there is always tomorrow. 'Another day tomorrow. Hasta Manana!' :'(
Hi I'm from Peru and one advice I would give you would be that please never come to Central or South America by yourself or with few people. Worse if you want to visit the jungle which is more dangerous than Africa, there are not only extremely dangerous and poisonous animals but you cannot trust the local people here. The worst thing about the Amazon jungle is that it is a place where someone can get lost very easily and you depend on your guide 100% so he could do whatever he wants with you because he knows the jungle, always go with a large number of people, never alone. Never go to the jungle without being 100% sure that you will get out of there alive. Please take this as advice.
@@osmopolito great comment. but if I may ask: why is it that a tourist cannot trust "local people"? I live in thailand and I trust them. never been a problem.
Yea, they 100% got raped and killed in the jungle. And there was zero incentive for the local police to solve the case as it would have hurt tourism big time.
Where did you read her diary? This is the first time I've read that she was miserable even before they went missing. Wanted to take a look at it myself if you had the link!
Incorrect pins could be explained by dehydration too, a symptom of dehydration is confusion and could mean they couldn’t remember the password for the phone
Once a pin that I typed 30+ times a day just slipped my mind and to this day I still forgot what it was so it still happens and even more when you’re dehydrated
@kitty cat lol talking shit about Samsung when their phones have up to 4k mhp batteries while iPhone has 3k in their latest XS max model, in the airport and bathrooms it is always iPhone users charging their phones.
DON'T EVER IN YOUR LIFE TRAVEL SOMEWHERE AND NOT TELL PEOPLE WHERE U ARE GOING! ESPECIALLY IF YOU ARE FORIEGN, AND ARE NOT FAMILIAR WITH THE AREA!!! Thanks that's my TED talk.
yeah thats what i immediately thought too, since i go hiking a lot i take it for granted, and also my mother everytime asks me specifically about where im going and what route i will take. But i can imagine someone from netherlands being new to these things, i might be wrong but i bet there are very few places to hike there. Thats a shame.
@@Catladygg maybe the guide knew why or that it is good to go the other day but they rushed into it fastly because they were full of lust for exploring new things. But it's dangerous though. I would never go into a jungle. The name jungle is not given just like that. It's hostile and human unfriendly. Nobody knows which creatures live there.
This makes my eyes water knowing that these poor girls lost their lives in a most horrifying way. The biggest heartbreak is not knowing what truly happened to them that last couple of days they were alive.
That is quite literally my worst nightmare. Can you imagine being lost in a place you don’t know, only a camera, pitch black, no service, and you’re injured. Can you imagine that?! I can’t even.
I know this is an old video, but it seems this bears repeating: if you are lost in the wilderness, or even just in a mall, DO NOT MOVE. Someone will come looking for you eventually, but if you are constantly moving the chances of them finding you go down to almost zero. Stay put, don’t exhaust or injure yourself, and help will find you.
That's VERY poor advise to be giving people. Someone will come looking for you eventually? How do you know? How long could it take? How would they even know where to find you? You cant just not move and expect to live for several days without food or water hoping people are going to find you. You may not have a choice but to take your chances and try to find your way back to civilization.
@@ernestteam2844 You should always notify someone where you are going it doesnt matter if it is a next town or near by woods. I say the most common way to find your way out of a situation is to follow a river not a stream but the widest river ussualy those lead to cities the bigger they are the more likely and ussualy go downstream as Most cities are on the coast, or cliser to the coast. And rivers end up on sea/ocean most of the time. Good thing would be to have a map or GPS if you go hiking.
Exactly what I was thinking. except it would have helped if these ladies had a compass and kept in mind their original location/bearing before heading off. Also hiking well after nightfall was incredibly stupid.
Tropical jungles are no joke, you can get dehidrated and exhausted by the humidity and heat relatively quickly. The dense vegetation also can make you confused as to where you’re going and where you came from. People underestimate nature and think that their cell phones will work everywhere.
@False its true alot of people had said so, however theres not much media coverage in the uk so i couldnt find much info except from podcasts, videos and reddit
I'm pretty sure that it was already introduced by that time. Here is a questions about that feature, which was published in April 2013 android.stackexchange.com/questions/43546/whats-the-purpose-of-emergency-call-button-on-sim-unlock-screen
RREDWING _ Yes, it absolutely was. In fact, even dating back to the nokia phones, before even The Razor came out, this feature has been available. Seriously, i know this to be a fact, because i was able to dial 911 in 2003, on a 2 year old prepaid nokia, that didn't even have any minutes left. A friend of mine, i think it was in '06, used his mom's phone to call 911, despite not knowing her access pin (his grandmother had a heart attack, but lived) This is a universal feature, & has been for a very, VERY long time. This wasn't a matter of Lisanne attempting to unlock the phone, to call for help. She didn't need it to do so. These poor girls were murdered. There is an overwhelming amount of evidence that points to foul play, and i find it absurd that anyone who knows their ass from a fucking hole in the ground could honestly think otherwise.
There's a pretty well established theory that the two girls were likely abducted by two men they'd met up with the day before. They'd have to have passed too many residences and populated areas to not have been able to reach help. Their bodies were, after all, found 12 hours away from where they first tried to contact help. The trails to where their remains were found are clearly marked, were easily navigable at that time of year, and would have taken the girl's through populated areas. A guard who would have been in the area on the theorized day they were abducted had heard screaming, but hadn't been able to identify the source. The pictures on the camera that are all black? May have been them attempting to use the flash to get the attention of a group of campers who would have also been nearby. It's likely that Kris died on April 3rd, and Lisanne tried to log into her phone multiple times. Kris's bones were unnaturally white, containing high amounts of phosphorus- not a chemical naturally present in the soil where their remains were discovered. Both girls' bones were unmarred- which is not normal. Even if their deaths had been natural, animals chewing and clawing at them would have left some kind of mark. It's thought that the girls' bodies were soaked in some kind of chemical containing high amounts of phosphorus, effectively dissolving the outer layer of the bones and smoothing over any marks that may have been left. That's consistent with the condition of her foot, which is severed at a spot that would not be likely to be natural, which also shows no markings. It's evident to me that the girls were likely followed or arranged to meet up with some cute guys they'd met and, as a result, met their end.
The one girls foot, that had a straight cut amputation, raised the biggest red flag for me. People don’t realize that they’re are a lot of crazies in the forests..I’ve ran into a few..living in Canada.
There's a camp of crackheads and drug addicts next to my house in the forest. My dad had to threaten them on time with a Glock, and they've stolen shit from our cars too.
I was in Utah one time hiking in the woods and found a severed antelope foot that was clean cut. It wasn't hunting season, and it was in a place where a poacher would be noticed immediately. That says to me that it was a predator, and that it's absolutely possible that her foot could have been cut clean off by wildlife.
she got injured/poisoned and cut her own leg off? I mean, I dont believe that, I think with 99% certainty there was a man behind it, most probably that "tour guide", but sometimes the answer is something that none thinks of at all
someone made a fire near my place in the forest in canada. I freaked the fuck out lol cause it was in the middle of winter with low tempratures. Like who does that really.
Ana Patricia I went to Boquete last week while on vacation and hiked the El Pianista specifically bc of these 2 girls. I got to the top and took a few selfies like the girls did, but immediately lost track of the trail and went into full panic mode, running back downhill thru the jungle instead of backtracking. Luckily I had working GPS on my phone, but there was NOBODY and I was climbing, crawling, scooting and walking downhill thru a lot of vegetation practically unpassable.. at one point, I leaned my hand on a tree, grabbing hold of a Green Vine Snake and I FREAKED out... Ended up wandering onto private property beside the start of the trail after TWO Hours but I never was so scared, I even left trails of trash written with my name in permanent marker and even wrote a note, leaving it in a plastic bottle. That trail is no joke, and if they didn't have GPS I can see how they would've panicked like me and lost sense of direction, going further into the nothing. As for the water issue, there are rivers, as well as the rain. They easily could've found water.
These girls did NOT get lost. I’ve just started watching a doc on this and a local said it’s impossible to lose your way. It’s one path and you don’t even need a guide to find your way. Definitely foul play. Hundreds have gone missing from the same area. The presenters are walking the very same trail and yes - it’s one wide path.
It is likely that someone or something spooked them, leading them to panic and running into the jungle losing their way, would explain why the dog noped the hell out of there too. Could have been a person, a group of aggressive people, or one of the jungles predators. If nothing spooked them, it could also be that they were just dumb and got lost because of it, I have seen people do some absolutely retarded shit on a whim so I can imagine them wanting to explore a bit further, straying off the path and quickly losing their way since they were unfamiliar with the terrain and had zero experience navigating in a jungle, maybe they just underestimated it. Of course foul play could be involved, but there are too many things speaking against it being a planned murder if you ask me.
@@insanecrack3r falling down from high place could have ream the bone and nature do the rest if eating the meat around it making the food fall off. you need to remember the only thing holding bone is tendon and it could have weaken overtime.
You should never even leave your house without someone knowing where you're going. Your parents weren't being controlling when they told you that as a kid. It's real shit. There are three rules about leaving your family or anyone to go somewhere. 1. Tell them where you're going 2. Tell them what time you expect to be back 3. Say I love you Rest in Peace to these girls. This is heartbreaking and terrifying.
We go hiking in the mountains in my country and before we go we always stop at the ranger station to tell them our plans and get information on our hike. To bad they didn’t stop at the police station to see if it was a safe area.
I've started to always follow the third one, I always say it when someone, not just me is going out. Mainly because I'll never know if that's the last time I see them or my last words to them.
I’ve seen many true crime documentaries and crime scene photos, but for some reason this story scares the shit out of me. So eerie and terrifying. Everything about this.
me too! I never forgotten this story and I have read a lot of them, a particularly haunting case and those nightime photos are straight from someones nightmare...
@@billblaski9523That you can! I personally thought that foul play was involved but thats just me... Theres too many questions unanswered! Also, i always thought that panamanian government police,etc... covered up many things and buried, they must have found something. It's just one of those haunting cases...
Trying to imagine the amount of fear they felt with each passing hour as they were losing hope while their batteries died. Where does the mind go once you realize there's no hope? A living nightmare.
According to some theories, they were kidnapped, raped, murdered, chemically disposed off. So they didn't have that experience you are citing but rather a much more horrifying one...
Dont let the propaganda fool you to think that people from other cultures are as welcoming as you. I live in latin america and let me tell you that you have to know how to get around, doing the usual can be complicated. You are so used to the safety at your countries / hometowns, when you come to places like ours you just dont know how different it can be.
A few years ago, my family took a vacation to Jamica. We stayed at a Beaches resort, and you had to sign a release contract saying that the resort was not responsible for anything if you went off-grounds.
@I will feast on your heart! someone actually once got mad at me because i said i did not want to visit latin america, i realize a bunch of things could go wrong. Doing research is key, but i'm not much of a traveler anyway on top of me watching way too many videos likes this. They tried assuring me people over there are super welcoming towards tourists which i don't doubt some are, and that everything would be fine, and i'm just ignorant. so, its funny you guys say this. There's definitely a lot to consider when travelling, not just people and customs, but the terrain and wildlife too.
I think that somehow their government, or their police department written this off as an "accident" to protect their tourism industry. The fact that there are so many loopholes pointed out during the entire case.
what is weird... why did the dog went home? and then, why didn't they follow the dog as a dog would know better than them to find the way back to home.
I do urban exploration and visit abandoned places, and after looking into a number of disappearances, it became important to me to express this: ALWAYS tell someone where you are going! So many people who are lost for years or pass away could have been located and saved if they had just made sure someone knew.
Also, if you get lost in a Central or South American (and even Mexico), nobody is going to make a search party or investigation unless your loved ones have the resources and/or influence to force the authorities to even care about it, I personally think that they assume that it was a cartel kidnapping so they avoid the topic like the plague since many times the police themselves are the ones that commit those kidnappings, and foreing tourists are well known to be preyed upon around these parts of the world.
There are even countless movies on this premise, including hiking ones. Someone goes hiking, doesn't tell anyone where they are, gets into trouble and can't be easily saved, some character throughout the film is like, "hey imagine if you had told people where you're going." Sometimes movies are right! And if you, for some reason, don't want to tell anyone where you're going? Unless you're on the run for privacy reasons (so maybe like 0.01% of people), you should reevaluate if you should be going somewhere if you can't or won't tell people where you're going.
The creepy part is, due to the way the phones reacted it’s plausible that they went crazy after about 7 days in the jungle, but also possible they were murdered, but why would a murderer call 911 77 times and try to unlock the phone, seems more like they went into dehydration and were confused
@@FrostyIgnition but how could they get lost? The parents of the girls came and walked the trail, its a pretty straightforward trail, theres video footage of them walking it and they themselves said theres no way to get lost, unless the girls intentionally left the trail and walked hours away
that photo is of a cliff, i lightened the shadows, highlights and increased the saturation of the photo 2-3 times in picsart and it shows the rest of it
That's why asian horror films never scare me. They rely too much on ghosts and spirits, and I don't believe in those. Same thing with Paranormal activity movies. Creepy shit like this is only scary when you experience it yourself.
I agree completely. So Ryan if you read this, please cover more lesser-known true crime stories. There's too much videos on Dear David and other dumb ghost stories already on TH-cam.
Lisanne was a classmate of mine in high school. I obviously know what happened to her but I was still quite shocked to see this video. She was the sweetest girl you could know. Always nice and laughing. She would never say anything bad. A perfect student too. And she didnt necessaraly stand out. A humble girl. We weren’t friends or anything. But this girl is the last person who would deserve an end like this. Still very sad... Having a real hard time listening to her story :/
Lex et Ordo I agree with you that there are many naive and ignorant people on this planet. But I do not think Lisanne and Kris were totally oblivious to realities there. You can’t just assume we’re all stupid in the west and don’t know what happens in other countries.
Semper fidelis Semper Paratus Yes as far as I understand, parts of their bodies are found. The circumstances of their deaths, while officialy stated as accidents, really are still a mystery.. iirc the parents of Kris and brother of Lisanne have done the small little hike the girls did on that day. I’ve seen the footage. It’s just a small hike, in a semi populated area. Houses and people living pretty close. And not really a path/hike you would get lost on. They were smart girls too. So hard to think they would go off track without a very very good reason..
Semper fidelis Semper Paratus Yeah, I’d definetly stop her too. I mean, there’s probably places that are okay. Especially if there is a male along. But I wouldn’t want to bet on it.
Theory: the last few images were attempts to take a picture of someone following them and one of the pictures actually caught the person doing it. The last picture they could have heard a footstep and took that picture to try and see what it was.
I think this theory could very well be true due to the fact that photo 509 was deleted, i think it captured the perpetrator in the photo and once the girls were dead he deleted it and put it back where it was or planted it so it didn’t seem suspicious but it was more suspicious that 509 was gone. It’s also dumb that the perp didn’t fix the names of the photos so it wasn’t obvious that 509 was missing
@Liberty or Death but noone else, so your example with some teenager texing while driving and smashing another car & killing people is not comparable. they underestimated the jungle's danger and in the end died but they didn't kill other people
Kind of suspicious that the girls went straight from taking pictures of themselves to not taking even one picture of themselves. Not even sunset pictures. This is especially suspicious knowing the time gap between the sudden change, and the fact that there was one deleted picture exactly before the sudden change. I'm convinced that someone was in that picture and he was not pleased with it. Possibly befriending them before turning up on them. Could be a guide or someone who knows the place (he didn't get lost and probably knew where to take them without getting caught).
Panamanian here. I used to hike through that trail with my family and friends, so I got chills recognizing a few parts of the path in the video. The trail is clearly marked, and it travels through many houses of indigenous people, going through open hills, even a a few rivers while you ascend the mountain before it truly gets into uncharted rain forest. Even though there is a considerate amount of people at the base of the mountain (people live there, go there, theres even a restaurant connected to one of its entrances), the only exception to solitude is the occasional small hut in the higher areas. In terms of terrain, it can be rather dangerous without a guide because there is little visibility through the tropical jungle, very rocky with sudden cliffs, but as stated before, the path is clearly marked and no one should get lost on their own. There are no large predators in the area, the only possibility for a dangerous animal would be venomous snakes, frogs, or plants. In terms of water supplies, there are a few streams and the like available, and our dry season ends at around that time, so there are chances of rain (Id have to look at the weather reports of those days). Dehydration would be enhanced by hot water vapor and humidity, reducing their energy supplies. None of the possible causes of natural death explain the condition their bodies were found. Our police force is not prepared for emergencies inside dense tropical forests ironically enough. Their counterpart, SENAFRONT, has the jungle training, but theyre stationed around the borders to stop drug related crime. The further you go from the main cities, the less equipment, resources, manpower and know how SENAPROC has due to centralization by the government. Just to paint a picture and add more context about organization here, the legal justice system usually waits for years to properly solve simple crimes in court. Also I will add that pretty much everyone has a phone in this country, with 6 million phones vs 4 million people, with a clear emphasis for smart phones. Boquete is a small tourist town in the highlands, where there are a lot of retired and/or tourist European and Americans, with a constant influx of visitors. Really anyone could have the knowledge to access those phones and tamper with the info at a basic level. Also Jesus, they actually mentioned the girl killed in Bocas. Im kind of surprised with the connection made in the video, as right now there are rumors of an ongoing investigation of a serial killer through the FBI, that someone seasonally travels to Panama to target other tourists, specifically young white girls, before heading home as a type of vacation feature. There are previous cases of the like, ie the Wild Bill case. (Also all the footage of Panama here is from Panama City, which is on the other side of the country, faraway from where these incidents took place.)
@Jaw Less • 14 years ago . Just a in depth perspective from a Panama native I found it quite interesting because I'm fascinated w this case and the mystery that surrounds it. If that's not the case w u then it might not be a good read.
My theory: 1) they got lost 2) one had an accident and got severely injured or killed 3) the other one went to look for help 4) she died later due to exhaustion or lack of food/water 5) bodies decomposed due to hot climate and wild animals
BreakLux this is definitely the most logical explanation. 1. There was a very high chance of them getting lost because they were obviously not familiar with the area. 2. This would also make sense because based of the pictures found on Kris' phone, the area looks pretty hilly and mountainous, which would explain why one of the girls had an accident where they just stepped on a rock the wrong way or maybe even fell down one of the cliffs which would most certainly hurt or maybe even kill them. And of course the other would have gone and ran for help which would explain the numerous emergency calls, failed PIN guessing attempts by most likely Lissanne, and the dry backpack on the riverside, as well as the shorts. 3. Lissanne dying would also make sense because she was probably trying to get out of the jungle, and sense the was over the span of a few days, she couldn't find her way out as she was unfamiliar with the area. 4. The bodies would have most likely decomposed, as it is a proven fact that bodies decompose faster in hotter, more humid climates, which taken in mind, 1. They were in a jungle. and 2. It was the summer, which means more hotter, humid weather. woah this took me forever to type, anyways, all im saying is that all the points you are making make perfect sense and are the most likely explanation.
Nah, it is far more likely that they used the flash of their camera (not their phone, btw) to draw attention. They used the flash as a signal, in the hope that someone would see it piercing through the dark. Most of the pictures were taken from the exact same position, located at the edge of an incline. I highly doubt that they were using the camera to make sense of their surroundings. At this point, they have been in the jungle for several days. They probably knew better than to be on the move in pitch black darkness. Because a jungle at night is REALLY dark. Zero point in being moving at night, as you simply get lost even more. And probably will take an hour to cover even 100 meters. Even resuce forces (under most circumstansces) don't navigate through the forest (let alone a jungle) at night. It simply makes no sense.
In the tropic investigators do take into consideration that to calculate the decomposition, so if they say the body should be found in better condition that means they compared witht he location the body was fund and not in siberia
wait. how come they didn't follow the dog? I know it sounds dumb but, the dog obviously left the girls behind for a reason....no? I just think its weird how the dog came back just fine
나탈리 yeah you could probably ask where *insert name here* is if the dog knows the girls well enough and the dog would go to around the area that it left them
When someone goes missing, the police wait for sometime before logging a FIR. The waiting time varies from place to place.. for eg. Here in India it's 24 hrs. Maybe in Panama they wait for 4 days
Yeah, that's sad but true. Because they grow up surrounded by very safe environments, they kind of believe they don't have to fear anything but reality is not like that. However, loosing track of reality is very common when you've grown up like that. I'm from Colombia (so yeah, no the safest and most developed country in the world). I'm not rich by any means but I was born in a very good family with more than enough money for a good house and quality education for me. Even I know that I live inside a bubble but very rich people (I don't have anything against them but of course money can give you a crazy amount of privilege specially in this kind of countries) often live in a completely different world, so they tend to be pretty naive. Victims in most disappearances and crimes like this one tend to be rich people from the big cities. There's even a story of a well know director of one of the top universities in the country (actually one of my city) that went to a national park on the US and got lost because he stopped following the path, apparently he was taking pictures of birds when he saw one he hadn't seen before and tried to follow him. He was like 10 or more days inside the forest when he was found alive (gladly). It all happened because he didn't take precautions.
@Vince 76 the fools are praising themselves, they are well educated , they learned humanity and they thought the entire world is a safe place like their country , but sadly they found themselves surrounded by stupid and ignorant people just like you, from the beginning of the case , the police behavior shows a lot .( Searching for them 4days after the report) what a shame.
Whoever the killers were, they must have been very good killers or they got lucky and succeeded in sending detectives on a wild goose chase. Either that or whoever took up investigations was thoroughly incompetent. This genuinely terrified the hell out of me and i'm rarely every moved by anything. There is absolutely no doubt that they were murdered. If they had gotten lost and were attempting to find their way back, they would probably have died of starvation and their bodies would have been found intact.
Panamenian here. This is all rumors and stuff, but this case is bigger than it may seem, like 5 to 6 of the people that knew the girls were taking the trial died or had accidents and unable to testity or say their side of the story. Even worse, the taxi driver that left them close to base camp, had important info but told a couple of reporters, that if he were to say anything, his life and family will be done for and to just drop the case or some people would come looking for them. Hell, the police was "doing" everything they could, cuz some policemen actually do take seriously missing cases, specially here since kidnappings are a thing but more if they are foreigners but people FROM the governent were meddling in the investigations and had private meetings with the dutch government that literally no one knew, it was after the fact cuz the cars leaving a hotel close to the city had their flag but that was pretty much it. Also, the path they were walking is long but is relatively easy to go through and we have no cannibal tribe here, making the case even weirder because why they went to such lengths to not finding the girls at the right time and then covering everything altogether. My country is filled with corruption to the brim but when foreigners are involved, they twist their leg like no tomorrow and do whatever international org or government tells them to do, to make everything easier and maintain the appearences and good relationship.
I'm a hiker, so from that perspective I would say yes, the girls went into that hike completely unprepared. With that said, the missing photo had to have been deleted on purpose. They wouldn't do that. The fact that it came between the last day time and first night time images tells me it was a photo of something important. I do not necessarily believe they were using the flash to light up the trail. I think they were using the flash to try to see someone who was out there. I cannot imagine a more terrifying situation to be in. I've slept in the woods. I've gone out intentionally without a tent and I am very much at home out there. BUT to be out there, alone, with no means to communicate KNOWING someone or something was out there in the dark.... harrowing doesn't begin to describe that hike. That photo is crucial and I think someone still has it.
It looks to me like they were using the flash from the camera to see things ahead of them, like cliffs. Perhaps the deleted photos were blurry pictures or instances where they forgot to turn on flash?
@@christophersutterlin6945 Or OR, maybe we stop blaming others and maybe start learning how to survive in the wilderness and learn how to navigate - seeing as iPhones have compasses installed on them which could have gotten them back home in less than probably 4 hours. If you're not learning how to read a map, use a compass, or just general survival, it's your own fault if you get lost and die on a hike. Stop trying to blame literally every damn thing on police.
Yeah, I find that foreigners know less about areas as such, and ultimately are seen as the ideal target. I'm unsure of how they get a kick out of committing these heinous crimes though -- really truly, it's just a waste of everybody's time. As much as I want to say that it feels these types of videos are essentially romanticizing the whole case, and undervaluing this person's death, I still use these to acknowledge different cases, and use them in examples. + In a previous comment I wrote, I was talking about how anime/video games does NOT affect your hostility or ambience. In that comment, I referenced an 11 year old Japanese girl, who had committed a murder IN school. After finding out she delved into horror genres, and read a ton of things circling that concept vaguely, people came to the conclusion that it was -- simply put -- the books and gore she watched and read that was at fault. Frankly, I don't think those books were the cause of her feeling the heavy desire to kill, but again, you can never be certain. 11 year olds are influenced quite easily.
when you go anywhere where you can stand out like a sore thumb for something you either can't hide or can't change you have to be careful. it doesn't matter what it is or where you are.
I'm from Panama and generally people don't hike this mountain without a guide because of how dangerous it is. The elevation there is different and it can be extremely hot in the morning and extremely cold at night in Boquete. I've never known of anyone to hike there alone.
Yep I hate to say it but it's pretty idiotic behaviour at work here. I know young people(under 21) can be naive but this is just so extreme even with that in mind. I'd imagine even most dumb kids would know not to hike in a jungle alone when you come from Europe and the like.
ElementGuns12 I have been stranded in the desert outside of Tuscon AZ, luckily we ran into campers who gave us water, lack of water is bad, I didnt really think about the ocean, which is worse obviously, but there is alot of stuff that wants to eat you in the jungle, plus infections, poisonous plants etc. But yeah the ocean will just swallow you whole.
tj nair they were using the phone very Minimally only using it for attempted phone calls to the police and to take photos It’s not like using TH-cam which eats up battery life but I have no idea how they could last that long without water
@Frischeparadies what? he's talking about the powers that be in those areas, they don't want people being put off going because they inject income, literally has nothing to do with the girls valuables, plus, if you murder someone, last thing you'd do is bring evidence with you.
@Frischeparadies There are no photos for 8 days, and suddenly some random photos in the dark that show almost nothing. Why no photos in the day, why no video, no recordings on the camera on the phone? Anyone would leave some message when they got lost or thought they might die. Instead we get some creepy photos 8 days later that probably weren't taken by them. One of night the photos is supposedly of Kris hair, but it's completely clean, after 8 days of being lost in the jungle? Makes no sense. The phone calls are all made at around 10am and 1pm every day. If they were moving around at different altitudes that makes no sense. They wouldn't be at best place to check the signal at exactly the same time each day. Could be done not by them, but the kidnapper from a location they knew there was no signal. It was shown that there was phone reception at the trail on the day they got lost. The bag was downstream from where the bones were found, yet completely undamaged by water or any elements. Everything inside also neatly organised. Yet supposedly the bones that were nearby and upstream from the bag were washed there by the river. So washed upstream? The girls' bones were also bleached, and no animal damage, bites/ scratches, not even microscopic ones found on them. No major bones or skulls were found despite, there being no animal predators there that could eat a skull. The camera photo 509, the one photo that was after the last daytime photo and before the first nighttime photo was deleted from a computer, as if it was deleted from the camera there would be a way to partially recover it. Other coincidences like the creepy tour guide, who offered them a tour and stay at his ranch, girls rejected, then their bag and remains are found half a mile from his ranch, found by one the tour guides friends so they can collect the reward money. There are many, many more unsettling facts that make it suspect, and don't seem to add up about this case if you just do some digging around. Even if you still believe they just got lost, you still have to admit how many suspicious weird facts there are surrounding this case.
@Frischeparadies I wouldn't say they can be easily explained, but I would gladly hear the explanations for the things I listed in my previous reply. I don't think someone followed them for 10 days. I think they were taken on the first day, their camera and phones taken, and then later the bag returned for the reward money and so the search doesn't continue, while setting up the evidence. They carefully crafted the evidence and set up the fake night photos to mislead. So they can have their cake and eat it too. The phone calls as I said can easily be made by the perpetrators from a location with no signal. I don't buy the story of them not leaving a single identifiable message that they were lost or hurt in all of the 11 days, despite having 3 working electronic devices and other ways of leaving notes in completely undamaged perfect condition backpack. Also their shoes that were found, one of them was almost in perfect condition, nearly impossible if they actually walked around the jungle for 11 days. The photos, were also clearly manipulated at some point by the time they got to Dutch government/newspapers. For example the night photos that have a different photo number but are actually a duplicate with adjusted brightness. Other cases like it, but that's the most obvious. Of course the chain is so long we don't know at what point the photos were manipulated. Also the timestamps of some photos don't add up one being that at 14;00 on April 1st Kris had messaged her boyfriend. Yet according to the photo timestamps they were by the first stream beyond the summit where there was no reception. The taxi driver claimed to have taken them there at only 13;40 which would explain them still having service, but so the photo timestamps are faked. Why? Also then the same taxi driver gets murdered few months later. Similarly there is an undated photo of them in a swimming in Caldera with 2 local boys. It's possibe that this is after they returned from the hike. Both boys also then were murdered later. There is so, so much more suspicious about this case. Lots of people who retraced their steps concluded it's almost impossible to get lost there, and if they fell down either the ravine or the monkey bridge, they would have been found. Something else happened to them. The researcher who examined the bones concluded that they did not fall off a bridge and there was no animal scavenging of their remains. This alone should be enough to suspect foul play. I don't know for certain how they died, but I don't for one second believe that they just "got lost", "fell", and that there was no foul play of some sort involved. I would list more of the things that I can't explain if they were not murdered, but again, it seems your mind is made up, just like mine is, so we can agree to disagree.
Well, very tragic, but a lesson for the living. Don't go anywhere without telling someone your destination and estimated time of return. And gear up for places like jungle or any large wilderness. May they rest in peace.
I think the dog ran off the trail (chasing an animal, or it decided to go home), Kris and Lisanne went after it, going far from the trail, and they became lost and disoriented in the jungle. If one of them were injured, it would slow them down, and infection, in that environment, would be certain, if the injury was severe. Dehydration, starvation, and exhaustion would slow and disorient them even further, as the days went on. IMO the backpack was left when she became too weak to carry it, then days/weeks later some random hiker touched (possibly moved) it, leaving fingerprints, but didn't bother to take it. The photos were taken as a means to light up the jungle in the dark. The missing pic is before the first night shot, so maybe they took a pic in the day, before the situation became dire, and they didn't like the shot, so they deleted it. Such a sad case, and so horrible that the local police didn't send out a search party on the first day, when they might have been found alive.
They booked an experienced hiker to tour them there the next morning. I don’t believe they intended to go far. Either a person or animal chased them off route. That’s why the dog likely ran away and day pictures turned into night pictures too see any trail or way back. What those girls went through is what we can all agree, a nightmare.
This is hard to watch, knowing what they must have felt during their last days.. the hunger, desperation, delirium. I can’t even imagine. The pictures make it even more difficult because we can literally see what they saw during their last moments as they struggled to survive. I think the deaths were an accident. They took on more than they could handle and unfortunately it cost them their lives. It’s another Into the Wild type of story and a good reminder to not fuck with nature by going into unknown forested areas without truly knowing what you’re doing. RIP.
It was not an accident whatever happened to them. Too much evidence points towards that they were murdered by somebody or a bunch of people... The Panamanian authorities probably deleted photo 509 because it was pointing towards the person/people who killed them. They deleted the photo because if tourists knew there is a killer on a loose, nobody will ever step into Panama... it is so obvious. Maybe the killer/s was/were not that bright to get rid of their whole remains or they left some of their bones and their backpack for a reason. Maybe to push for the accident theory, exactly what the Panamanian authorities also did.
That's true too. The cops would play a huge part in this. They probably found some evidence, and deleted it because they didn't want to go deeper into it.
What I don't understand is the narrator claims the police investigation found that the picture was not deleted from the phone...so did the killer delete the picture from his computer and then place the phone back on the trail? Doesn't make sense. If he grabbed the phone, he would have deleted the picture from the phone itself, and if the picture was deleted due to a mishap with the phone (dropping it on a rock etc.) it likely would have deleted more than just a single specific picture.
I've been lost in the forest, fumbling around in the buck brush, trying to get back to a well known trail. It will get your heart racing, especially when you end up right where you began...we had gone in a circle
I don’t think lissane would have tried to open her friends phone. Reason being dialing 911 or whatever their 911 is you don’t need to unlock a phone for emergencies. My guess is the people who attacked them did that. Sad. RIP may the lord let us smash whoever did that.
Most smartphones have an optional security feature which requires you to enter/swipe your password before any features can be used. With the exception of emergency phone calls
Exactly. Even if you’ve never used an Iphone before, ‘Emergency’ option is very clearly just at the bottom of the passcode screen. It’s impossible to overlook it after 77 times.
Depends on the phone. Keep in mind that this was back in 2014, when some features were not quite available. Kris, having an iPhone likely had access to her flashlight and emergency calls if it’s anything like mine (5S).
@@ColdBaltBlue It does not depend on the phone, it is required for any cell phone to be able to dial emergency services without requiring authentication or even mobile service....if a tower can get a signal to the mobile phone even if it is locked and inactive emergency services can be called.
People *cannot* survive 7 - 10 days without water. Most people cannot survive more than 3 days without water. By this time, a person is suffering from intense headaches, severe muscle aches and spasms as well as incredible disorientation. There is *no way* that a person could continue for another 4 - 7 days.
@@lightbeing8174 It depends on the climate, in a favourable environment you probably could go 5/6 days without water. But in the middle of a jungle I tend to think you'd be in deep trouble after just a couple.
@@lightbeing8174 Well the phone activity shows at least one person (probably Lisanne) was still alive at least 10 days later. I don't believe in the paranormal nor do I believe there was 3rd party involvement. Even if the water wasn't safe drinking water its still much better than no water at all and I think its possible if we assume they drank it that they could have survived that long. We also don't know how much water they took with them. They might have taken a decent amount to begin with. What happened is they stupidly thought the trail at the end of the normal trail led back to the beginning and followed it, they got lost off the path and couldn't find their way back. They tried to call for help but couldn't get any signal, aside from one call that broke up after a single second. They survived on water they had, or rainwater, or water from a river/lake or both. Then they come across the monkey bridge where Kris probably falls off and hits her head, either becoming badly injured or dies. Lisanne takes some photos to try and document the spot as well as the 'bloody hair' photo of Kris you can find online. Lisanne carries on for a short time after, unable to use Kris's phone (explains incorrect pincode) before suffering some kind of fall and dying also. The only strange thing about this case is the backpack and how it seemingly arrived miles away from where the girls were located and the fact the woman who handed it in said she was certain it was not where she found it the day before. But its possible the river carried it to where it had been found or someone else picked it up and didn't realise exactly what it was at first. Before then leaving it somewhere they knew it would be found.
my question is - why would a perpetrator go through all of the effort of deleting one photo, rather than just taking the camera or destroying it completely?
You left out a huge component of this case, by failing to mention a particular local guide who the girls became acquainted with the day before they began their hike. This guide had offered to guide them THE DAY BEFORE, along the same trail they took the following day. He had offered to take them down the trail & to his isolated ranch in the area to spend the night & then take them back. The girls declined his offer THAT DAY, but supposedly agreed to have him guide them the next day, whereupon the girls simply took off by themselves. We know this is mostly true, because the guide showed up at the house where the girls were staying to pick them up, but the host family told him that the girls had already left on the hike themselves. For some strange reason, the guide then demanded to see the room that the girls were staying in. The hosts allowed him to inspect the room. Some locals claimed the guide was very friendly & professional, while others, including tourists who had hired him in the past, stated he was a womanizer & had groped or tried to touch many women inappropriately. One local resort refused to use this guide due to the same reason. Also, this guide would only take parties of women, or at least women being present within a party, he would NOT guide "men only". THIS FACT ALONE IS VERY DISTURBING. This same guide also helped in the search & even pointed authorities to the exact area where some of the girl's possessions & remains were found. Very strange. Many believe he set the girls up for some kind of sex crime deep in the wilderness, killed them, and then spent the following days trying to cover up or at least stage the area to make it seem like the girls were alone & had some kind of serious accident involving deadly injuries. But the Panamanian authorities REFUSE to allow outside investigators to see the details of the case. The local authorities are more worried about keeping a good image for tourism, so they too, are guilty of trying to cover this case up. Locals stated the official search & ensuing investigation was a big joke. THIS IS YET ANOTHER CASE PROVING WHY WOMEN SHOULD NEVER TRAVEL IN ANY COUNTRY WITHOUT TRUSTED MALE COMPANIONS. Even "going out at night" in your very own town without male companions is not wise at all. Women are soft targets, and the sad truth, is there are far too many male predators running around.
Howabouthetruth You know what’s really fucking scary, the fact that the comment just above yours mentioned encountering this very guide, and claimed he “loved women” but probably wouldn’t do anything to him. The comment added that after the disappearance, the commenter kept in communication with the guide through text, who apparently went on to find the bones of the girls by himself. If I knew any better that would be our prime suspect
Important info here! That sounds extremely suspicious. I just noticed something too looking at the last picture in the video... one of the girls was wearing the bra found in the backpack during the day time photographs. It was sticking out of her shirt and I noticed it was the same pattern as one in the backpack. Why would both girls just remove their bras and place them in a backpack? Seems odd to me. Personally I would keep mine on if I’m hiking. It’s like someone was keeping a souvenir from the girls in the backpack, it just seems weird now because you said it could have been a sex crime.
@BMT Yes. I just read a case about a German 17 year old whose death in Malta is very mysterious. His body was returned to his family with no organs, not even the brain. The police was evasive about the family's questions; the doctor was blatantly lying that the organs were eaten by rats. Crucial pieces of evidence were missing, specifically a go pro camera. Seems to me the government is willing to cover up to avoid risking negative press to their tourism or they are just corrupted. Also, police just aren't always going to hit the jackpot even if they aren't corrupted. Eliza Lam's case of dying in a rooftop water tank was also very suspicious but the police couldn't find the murderer and it was concluded to be an accident rather than a homicide. So ...there's just risk to travelling in a foreign place and you really can't trust the police to help you out. If your things got stolen, the police cannot help you much either.
I’m familiar with this story and it’s important to note that there was a tour guide living in/near the village they were staying at who was known for his interest in younger female travelers and described as creepy by the people who lived in the area
yeah I saw on another video there were other girls rating his tour guide online.... and some girl wrote that she felt very unsafe and that he had joked about chopping her legs off ............. ugh. Sick bastard.
@@eiriseven most countries in the Caribbean and central America are poor or underdeveloped.... honestly they have beautiful sceneries but don't wonder to far from the safe areas... basically, don't leave the resort.
my dad is a roofer, a commercial roofer, meaning he does hotel and business's roofs. he mostly just stays in florida, but he does go out of state, sometimes out of country if its a high paying job. he did a job in Jamaica, a VERY nice and luxurious resort that was paying a TON of money for my dad and his workers (dads a regional manager) to fix a bunch of leaks and damages. so they went, and on the way from the airport, the shuttle to the rental car place was a rickety bus. someone literally tried to ROB them. like at a stop, someone flung open the door and said to empty their bags. the driver got up and BEAT THE GUY WITH A NIGHTSTICK. he fell onto the road and the driver just kept on driving. my dad had seen worse growing up so he was unfazed for the most part. when he got to the resort, it was surrounded by giant walls. the manager said to never ever go outside the walls unless it was absolutely necessary. he gave them free rooms to stay in while they worked. he said the entire property was gorgeous and dreamy, like something out of a movie. but he had hired some Jamaican people to work with his crew as well, they needed money and my dad needed extra hands. so he went outside of the property, away from the safety of the walls to their bank to deposit their money every friday. the first friday, he was leaving the bank and witnessed an actual murder. he was in his car, and a man was crossing the street and going into the bank, and 3 people came of nowhere and stabbed this man multiple times, took everything from his pockets, his watch his shoes, and left him dead in the street. my dad sped out of there so fast, and told the manager at the hotel what happened. he always made sure to have 3 other guys with him when he left the walls every friday. he was gone for a month, and my mom was nervous the whole time and called him every night after he told her what he saw. moral of the story, if locals tell you not to go somewhere, DONT GO THERE. especially when youre unfamiliar with the area. those countries are beautiful but thats what google images are for. my heart aches for those girls, but its not all like the movies. these other countries are not like america.
im from panama.. and its not like Jamaica...if you go alone to a unknown forest with no trail, accidents can happen,,,yes not like america, we have less shootings, kidnappings, murders, drug abuse, rape..so thank God they are not like america.
They were killed, used, and their phone was stolen. Possibly by corrupt police. 77 incorrect attempts at unlocking the phone? Missing images? It seems pretty clear what happened. RIP.
The police weren't corrupt. Panama's police weren't going to waste their limited resources on finding some stupid rich white girls who were likely dead, who made an asinine decision of going into the fucking jungle without any guidance or experience. It's almost as if there were bigger priorities.
@@cybernerdcreations4475 They spent indeed a lot of resources in the search; When new evidence surfaced (backpack) they continued and found more bones, it allowed to confirm that the girls died. However no evidence of the cause of death has ever been found.
I'm from the Netherlands. I remember watching the news about this growing up. Truly haunting. Especially when they found human remains and it was confirmed to belong to one of the girls. It shook the country so much that now if you say you're going to the panamas, people will assume you're suicidal
Not everyone is phone savvy.. I've seen people actually download ad filled garage flashlights because they were unaware of a built in one. Not gonna access that without unlock
I've known about this case in passing since it happened, but this is the first time I realised how spooky the whole thing is. That thing about image 509? Man, that's chilling.
actually the image 509 I believe I saw on the web was a picture of bloodied hair of one of the girls. The picture wasn't released. There's theories the other girl may have snapped a picture but then deleted it because she didn't want to look at her dead friend. Another popular theory is that the killer took a picture of it which could be possible.
@@TheWorldOfMeghan That's not 509 it's a different picture. It also wasn't bloody but you can see what looks like the girl's face covered up by her hair.
Moral of the story: foreign white girls please stop going hiking by yourselves in the Panamanian jungle without bringing weapons or telling anyone exactly where you're going.
Bringing weapons? How about flashlights, maps and compass? I mean a machete/hatchet is standard kit if thats what you mean by weapon. A gun does you literally 0 good in the pitch black.
@@JarthenGreenmeadow Yes, a weapon. I never even mentioned guns lol. It should be common sense to bring hiking-tier gear if you going to do just that, so much so i didn't even bother mentioning it.
sadly tho depending on where you go, there might be laws against people carrying weapons who aren't from their country (not saying it shouldn't be done, just saying you can get in trouble either way)
@@DarkArterialGore I can't believe the kind of person you have to be to comment something like that under the case where two *real girls died* after being lost for *10 days* in a jungle.
"They wrote on Facebook that they intended to walk around Boquete, and it was reported that they had been seen having brunch with two young Dutch men before embarking on the trail."
Since we're all speculating, I'll toss in my theory of the missing photo and the possibility that she took a picture of her friend who had fallen, and perished, as evidence should she be rescued; However, further down the line and coming to terms with her own death (also a possibility of guilt of leaving her friend behind, dead or not, since she is too now just going to die) she decides to delete the photo, a photo that one can only imagine wasn't easy to look at, nor would be a pleasant sight, so that the only photos left to be seen are the ones of them happy-- where she really wanted to be in here last moments, and how she prefered to be remembered.
If it was deleted from the phone itself, it can still be recovered unless overwritten by more data put on to the phone. Even when deleted, the data is still there until overwritten or fully deleted externally from another device. Anything that stores data works like this. A strong enough magnet could completely erase it too, but at that point nothing could really be recovered from the phone anyway.
I think she may have also been trying to take a picture of the stick (in photo 510), but accidentally made it unrecognizable with motion blur or something else
Had the police decided to do their job and take action at the beginning instead of being lazy and not taking it seriously and fobbing it off, those two girls could have been located and saved.
@@reesedaniel5835 i agree reese it was an unfortunate accident the bodies were eaten by animals that is why just small pieces left or killed n hacked up n eaten by still believable n alive canibals living in them types of jungle but i would go with the latter
Reminds me of Jesse Galganov, the 23 year old Canadian who disappeared in 2017 while hiking the Andes in Peru. Without a guide. His family has spent over a million dollars searching for him, but his body has never been found. I don't want to blame the victims, but I think people often underestimate the difficulty of the terrain and the potential security risks, and overestimate their ability to navigate without a guide.
The best presentation so far, like that you pause in between, makes it less stressfull to listen to. Way to many are babling without a break, sounds like they are having a nervous breakdown. Foul play for sure, and absolutely could be the young boy who murdered the other girl. Why suddely lots of pictures on the 8th, after weeks a clean and dry backpack appears , deleted photo impossible to recover etc, too many strange things to just be an accident..
Most spooky thing is realizing someone actually took that last photo. Someone was actually running through *pitch black* jungle unable to see shit.
THIS.
running? there's no motion blur, so someone was standing there to take the image. cell phones are bad about motion blur, so it's unlikely they were moving, probably someone who didn't know how to use the camera and taking an image (flash is obvious in the image) to check the path.
It's important to mention that there are multiple photos with motion blur from the camera
What if they took that last photo to check how far the drop looked, or if they would be able to climb a wall. Either one works since we don’t know the actual perspective. Although it looks like there’s a white figure in that photo as well at the top right. You can kinda look at the image as if they’re on the ground and the person is standing over in the distance. The picture taker didn’t notice it because it was faint. The figure may not have realized it either for the same reason.
could it be that she took the photo of the cliff depending on whats the perspective either fell or wanted to point out where everything went wrong? like maybe they fell from the cliff and wanted to document that
I can't imagine trekking the Panamanian jungle, in complete darkness, with only an intermittent camera flash to light my way. That shit is terrifying.
Yeah, doesn't matter if it was foul play or not, dying in the middle of nowhere is horrifying.
I had a similar experience in the Guatemalan jungle, complete with camera-flash-in-the-dark photos to light the way. We could hear shit crashing around in the bushes a few times (probably howler monkeys?) along with some other weirdness, and i can say it was indeed terrifying.
Not so scary if you can travel up to 7 km in seconds between the shots also the weather also changes in seconds I mean that literally Sunny to full on cloudy in 5 seconds. The camera memory card has been manipulated beforehand.
Why is it creepy? There's nothing creepy about a quiet Forrest, it's the thought that unknown huamans are in there watching you that's creepy.
@@opts9 tell me more, I want to know how it started and why you were lost at night in a jungle
I never understood why my mom wanted to know every where I went and who I was with until I got older and saw things like this.
It's fucked up, but I've learned that as a young woman I pretty much shouldn't ever travel anywhere alone or with a small group of other young women.
I knew all along. Mainly because I am the bunny man.
I hate to let my daughter's out of my sight. Too many bad things could happen.
Jacob Burden Stop haunting my dreams man.
scare meplz Yeah exactly
Hi, Dutch person here. I'd like to say that everyone in the Netherlands was pissed at the cops for not immediatly doing anything.
And rightfully so. The scary thing about South America is you can't fully trust anyone there.
eh cops all around the world are incompetent people anyway
@@colecooper5836 You cant fully trust anyone anywhere honestly. Would you trust some random stranger in, lets say, denmark, in the middle of the forest?
@@snyfalcryo524 that’s a stupid thing to say
@@Omar_05 everyone in my country doesn't trust the cops lol, its a public secret everything involving them will involve some bribing to actually move them
i do not understand why anyone would go hiking and not carry a knife, match, extra water, dry food, first aid kit.
Bosa uzelac fuck it, pack a pistol just in case- never get caught lacking
I'd take water, matches and food over a gun any day. Guns have extremely limited uses.
Really though Machete/hatchet, water, emergency rations and a change of socks are standard hiking equipment.
Jarthen Greenmeadow I never said don’t take basic emergency supplies - just pack a Glock along with that stuff
Just dont go outside
Compasses are rather handy in these situations as well. I get that they won't exactly grant a bird's-eye view, but it'll at least help you keep your orientation and grant a sense of direction.
No good story starts with "Two young girls went to Central America."
Marc Alcatraz yeaahhh I’ve spent a lot of time there and Panama is NOT where you want to get lost either.
Oh hey look it's Sarah really? I thought it was a safe country since many Americans go there after they retire...
hell no its one of the countries alllll over gore sites
DimiDingo yikes
Yup. It can be great of you follow the tourist rules but locals know a lot of people are tourist and they target them for pit pocketing and worse.
I’m dutch and I still remember my grandma bringing up this case time and time again to warn me not to go to isolated places and always telling someone where I am.
Best advice ever. If you are in a foreign land, do not know the dangers of the place, the best thing to do is to stay close to the largest group of people possible. Here in the third world, law enforcement isnt very good, so some may find compelling to commit one or another crime, knowing nothing will happen and their crimes will never be exposed. Being close to one another is the best defense in a land where the closest cop is 100km away...
@@vampirecount3880 Yes, and always have some self-defense weapon with you if possible. I always carry a knife when hiking/backpacking, mostly as a tool, but also as a means of self-defense. This is incredibly important in developing nations with poor police presence but rings true anywhere. It might not save your life but it will allow you to fight if needed. Also, never get complacent and always be vary. I wish I could guide and help everyone because my intentions are true, but unfortunately, sometimes bad people will get into positions of power and abuse them.
Your grandma was right!
Grandma's are the same all over the globe 😂
Hey dutchie here i just wanted to say you are so sweet..😊
That deletion of the ONE picture is the biggest red flag for me. Like you said- deleting pictures is the last thing you would do, let alone only one specific one. Really creepy.
Yeah makes me think whichever girl was last alive panicked snapped a pic of the attacker/pursuer before they got to her
@@willknapp8751 Great theory except there was over 90 photos taken after that. Also the worst serial killer of all time to let them phone emergency services numerous times and not destroy any evidence
^
Yea, they 100% got raped and killed in the jungle. And there was zero incentive for the local police to solve the case as it would have hurt tourism big time.
And wild animals don't delete photos...
The incorrect pin codes raised the most red flags to me
TafTabTah probably cause she got a photo of who killed them or something and turned that shit off and that person was trying to delet the pictures but of course nothing will ever come from that bc that phone probably reset itself
@@02jeepwj but i don't understand how someone could be in the same place like what a shitty probability ,in the middle of the jungle i mean "he" must been following this girls from the beginning
It seems it could have been Kris herself, maybe she was injured and unable to press the right keys. It could also have been Lisanne trying to guess the code like Nexpo theorised or even the third party trying to get into the phone. The only issue with that last theory is, assuming image 509 was relevant and there was a third party, it would have already been deleted before then since Nexpo says the phone wasn't used again after the failed unlocking attempts.
lanslasa with no water you would quickly become incoherent and delusional so entering the PIN numbers wrong would be normal as the brain swells
Roger Wynne wanted to write the same
Deleted photo is her dead friend
yeah, maybe she took a flash photo to see if her friend was still down somewhere when she stopped answering..and got her answer.. id delete it too probably
@@iCourtneyyy So what happened to the friend in this situation? The one that was dead first?
@@iCourtneyyy yeah but the thing is the phone she had and was taking pictures with was her friends, why'd she have the phone already
I think it was a photo intended to show authorities of the broken of foot as her best effort of saving her friend then days later when her hopes of survival disappeared she could not stand the photo and deleted it and probably not thinking it would be a problem later for the authorities. (as "evidence" of this theory, she had A LOT of horrifying days to think about that scary picture which probably led to her deleting it) Very sad if you imagine that story line... Rest in peace Kris Kremers and Lisanne Froon.
If she deleted the photo that means she had access to the pin to unlock the phone, but then why were there unsuccessful attempts to unlock the phone?
Had anyone questioned the dog?
@Sreenath Aether Fled the country when he heard the jig was up.
😂😂
The dog lived, it returned alone and that’s what made the host family worry.
Asap Iggy r u dumb?
@@ComplexionSalad did you watch the video you dumbbell?
I just read Lisanne's diary. So much of it is haunting when you know what will soon happen... particularly the opening lines. 'I would not like to be found dead in San Jose, though the chances of that are pretty high in San Jose. I could live in Bocas for the rest of my life. Maybe if I ever retire.' If this was a story it would be some major foreshadowing, both due to the reference of being found dead as well as spending the rest of her life there. In the middle of the diary Lisanne is crying and saying she feels like she is out of her depth, that she wants to go home to her parents and that she didn't really want to go on the trip but agreed anyway. She said Kris was there with her, but even she could not make this strange place seem more familiar. The final lines in her diary are the day before April 1st when they go missing. She is talking about how they were rejected from the daycare but that she needs to look on the bright side because there is always tomorrow. 'Another day tomorrow. Hasta Manana!' :'(
Hi I'm from Peru and one advice I would give you would be that please never come to Central or South America by yourself or with few people. Worse if you want to visit the jungle which is more dangerous than Africa, there are not only extremely dangerous and poisonous animals but you cannot trust the local people here. The worst thing about the Amazon jungle is that it is a place where someone can get lost very easily and you depend on your guide 100% so he could do whatever he wants with you because he knows the jungle, always go with a large number of people, never alone. Never go to the jungle without being 100% sure that you will get out of there alive. Please take this as advice.
@@osmopolito great comment. but if I may ask: why is it that a tourist cannot trust "local people"? I live in thailand and I trust them. never been a problem.
Yea, they 100% got raped and killed in the jungle. And there was zero incentive for the local police to solve the case as it would have hurt tourism big time.
@@oderblock That's Asia, not Central/South America.
Where did you read her diary? This is the first time I've read that she was miserable even before they went missing. Wanted to take a look at it myself if you had the link!
Incorrect pins could be explained by dehydration too, a symptom of dehydration is confusion and could mean they couldn’t remember the password for the phone
knowing they are west european white girls, a pin code is automated muscle memory at that point.
Once a pin that I typed 30+ times a day just slipped my mind and to this day I still forgot what it was so it still happens and even more when you’re dehydrated
Or one was incapacitated and the other tried to use her phone.
I missed the pin twice in my bank card at the store the other day just cause i was hungover :D
i screw my pin up sometimes. it happens. especially if you’ve been lost in the costa rican wilderness for a week
My phone battery won’t even last a walk to the store.
Had one about 6 years back that lived off the charger like life-support. Literally died the instant it was taken off.
J
Yes
@cara bear nigga my Oppo lasts upwards of 16+ hours
@kitty cat lol talking shit about Samsung when their phones have up to 4k mhp batteries while iPhone has 3k in their latest XS max model, in the airport and bathrooms it is always iPhone users charging their phones.
DON'T EVER IN YOUR LIFE TRAVEL SOMEWHERE AND NOT TELL PEOPLE WHERE U ARE GOING! ESPECIALLY IF YOU ARE FORIEGN, AND ARE NOT FAMILIAR WITH THE AREA!!! Thanks that's my TED talk.
yeah thats what i immediately thought too, since i go hiking a lot i take it for granted, and also my mother everytime asks me specifically about where im going and what route i will take. But i can imagine someone from netherlands being new to these things, i might be wrong but i bet there are very few places to hike there. Thats a shame.
From what I heard they were supposed to go with a guide the next day but decided to go by themselves
@@Catladygg maybe the guide knew why or that it is good to go the other day but they rushed into it fastly because they were full of lust for exploring new things. But it's dangerous though. I would never go into a jungle. The name jungle is not given just like that. It's hostile and human unfriendly. Nobody knows which creatures live there.
is that berserk in ur profile pic
And even if you don't speak the language haha
This makes my eyes water knowing that these poor girls lost their lives in a most horrifying way. The biggest heartbreak is not knowing what truly happened to them that last couple of days they were alive.
You don't want to know sweety, you don't want to know
@@osmopolito What do you believe happened?
@@AshanBhatoa I actually believe it was murder
That is quite literally my worst nightmare. Can you imagine being lost in a place you don’t know, only a camera, pitch black, no service, and you’re injured. Can you imagine that?! I can’t even.
@Traveller Tribe's?
@Houssain Al ahmafi In fact, there are no dangerous animals living in this area. Those girls never went missing
@@arminiuscherusci4410 I am not sure if mountain lions qualify as "not dangerous".
I would most probably have a heart attack and die on the spot once the realization hit that I was that desolate
Which is why I don't understand why anyone would go to these places without a satellite nphone handy. So dumb.
>Going to hike alone
>In the jungle
>In central america
>As a white girl
They didn't stand a chance
"White girl"
Is a color question, obviusly..............
you wrote a haiku...
nice.
@@fernandoyago8272 Of course it is! tourist are targeted waay more.
@Eromanga Sensei Wow
Eduardo San Martin Reminds me of the Scandinavian girls who hiked and were beheaded in morrocco.
I like how he says goodnight , as if I were to sleep after this
Atheist Priest I’m watching this right before bed...
😂😂
Lol, best comment here.
Surprisingly these kinds of videos help me go to sleep just cuz this guys narration voice is pretty calming as well as the erie music.
I go to bed right afterwards cause I’m too scared to stay up 🤣
true crime never really scares me, but this case gives me the most uncomfortable feeling for some reason.
Oh my goodness I feel the same way with this case! 😟
Why do have a strong gut feeling that they have been killed by a cult
@@Herlastnightonearth why so sad?
I know this is an old video, but it seems this bears repeating: if you are lost in the wilderness, or even just in a mall, DO NOT MOVE. Someone will come looking for you eventually, but if you are constantly moving the chances of them finding you go down to almost zero. Stay put, don’t exhaust or injure yourself, and help will find you.
Thanks.
That's VERY poor advise to be giving people. Someone will come looking for you eventually? How do you know? How long could it take? How would they even know where to find you? You cant just not move and expect to live for several days without food or water hoping people are going to find you. You may not have a choice but to take your chances and try to find your way back to civilization.
@@ernestteam2844 You should always notify someone where you are going it doesnt matter if it is a next town or near by woods.
I say the most common way to find your way out of a situation is to follow a river not a stream but the widest river ussualy those lead to cities the bigger they are the more likely and ussualy go downstream as Most cities are on the coast, or cliser to the coast. And rivers end up on sea/ocean most of the time.
Good thing would be to have a map or GPS if you go hiking.
But... but.... Bear Grylls does it
Exactly what I was thinking. except it would have helped if these ladies had a compass and kept in mind their original location/bearing before heading off. Also hiking well after nightfall was incredibly stupid.
Tropical jungles are no joke, you can get dehidrated and exhausted by the humidity and heat relatively quickly. The dense vegetation also can make you confused as to where you’re going and where you came from.
People underestimate nature and think that their cell phones will work everywhere.
Wild animals, there are large cats in those regions.
Or they were a victim of a crime
I always say to bring a sat phone as mostly cell phones dont get coverage in remote places.
Lol bruhh have u ever played Minecraft before?
phones have compasses
I should stop watching these videos
Same
Yea what Inside a mind it's scary
Mhm
Yeah huh
me too but they’re so good
the cab driver that left them at the trail "drowned" a month later.
@False its true alot of people had said so, however theres not much media coverage in the uk so i couldnt find much info except from podcasts, videos and reddit
Makes you wonder if he knew to much
Are we going to forget that you dont need the password to the phone to make an emergency call.
@FritoSalad Oh yeah you're right
I'm pretty sure that it was already introduced by that time.
Here is a questions about that feature, which was published in April 2013
android.stackexchange.com/questions/43546/whats-the-purpose-of-emergency-call-button-on-sim-unlock-screen
RREDWING _
Yes, it absolutely was. In fact, even dating back to the nokia phones, before even The Razor came out, this feature has been available. Seriously, i know this to be a fact, because i was able to dial 911 in 2003, on a 2 year old prepaid nokia, that didn't even have any minutes left.
A friend of mine, i think it was in '06, used his mom's phone to call 911, despite not knowing her access pin (his grandmother had a heart attack, but lived)
This is a universal feature, & has been for a very, VERY long time.
This wasn't a matter of Lisanne attempting to unlock the phone, to call for help. She didn't need it to do so.
These poor girls were murdered. There is an overwhelming amount of evidence that points to foul play, and i find it absurd that anyone who knows their ass from a fucking hole in the ground could honestly think otherwise.
@@adambryan411 Alright I'm glad you know the right answer, I was never in a situation where I needed to make an emergency call.
True
After this video, a lot of girls are probably removing “I love to hike” from their tinder bios
"I love to jog."
would finally be smart of them. spontaneous "wanderlust" is overly romanticized in media and thats why they be dyin. -
@@FishbedFive yo como ingles niños
🤣🤣🤣
"I don't eat animals because I love them"... Until they get eaten by a random phyton.
There's a pretty well established theory that the two girls were likely abducted by two men they'd met up with the day before. They'd have to have passed too many residences and populated areas to not have been able to reach help. Their bodies were, after all, found 12 hours away from where they first tried to contact help.
The trails to where their remains were found are clearly marked, were easily navigable at that time of year, and would have taken the girl's through populated areas.
A guard who would have been in the area on the theorized day they were abducted had heard screaming, but hadn't been able to identify the source.
The pictures on the camera that are all black? May have been them attempting to use the flash to get the attention of a group of campers who would have also been nearby.
It's likely that Kris died on April 3rd, and Lisanne tried to log into her phone multiple times. Kris's bones were unnaturally white, containing high amounts of phosphorus- not a chemical naturally present in the soil where their remains were discovered.
Both girls' bones were unmarred- which is not normal. Even if their deaths had been natural, animals chewing and clawing at them would have left some kind of mark.
It's thought that the girls' bodies were soaked in some kind of chemical containing high amounts of phosphorus, effectively dissolving the outer layer of the bones and smoothing over any marks that may have been left. That's consistent with the condition of her foot, which is severed at a spot that would not be likely to be natural, which also shows no markings.
It's evident to me that the girls were likely followed or arranged to meet up with some cute guys they'd met and, as a result, met their end.
Finally someone with grain of intelligence here.
I agree
My sentiments exactly.
>or arranged to meet up with some cute guys they'd met
Well damn.. That's actually a possibility
Thank you for that. You pretty much said it better then i could.
Its a more logical theory then the accident one.
The one girls foot, that had a straight cut amputation, raised the biggest red flag for me. People don’t realize that they’re are a lot of crazies in the forests..I’ve ran into a few..living in Canada.
She eat her leg. She was hungry
There's a camp of crackheads and drug addicts next to my house in the forest.
My dad had to threaten them on time with a Glock, and they've stolen shit from our cars too.
I was in Utah one time hiking in the woods and found a severed antelope foot that was clean cut. It wasn't hunting season, and it was in a place where a poacher would be noticed immediately. That says to me that it was a predator, and that it's absolutely possible that her foot could have been cut clean off by wildlife.
she got injured/poisoned and cut her own leg off?
I mean, I dont believe that, I think with 99% certainty there was a man behind it, most probably that "tour guide", but sometimes the answer is something that none thinks of at all
someone made a fire near my place in the forest in canada. I freaked the fuck out lol cause it was in the middle of winter with low tempratures. Like who does that really.
This case gave me the creeps when I first learned about it. What happened to Kris and Lisanne is heartbreaking.
Nightmares Before Bedtime It haunts me every time I visit Boquete, I think the path they went trough is now closed
Bone breaking rather.
Ana Patricia I went to Boquete last week while on vacation and hiked the El Pianista specifically bc of these 2 girls. I got to the top and took a few selfies like the girls did, but immediately lost track of the trail and went into full panic mode, running back downhill thru the jungle instead of backtracking. Luckily I had working GPS on my phone, but there was NOBODY and I was climbing, crawling, scooting and walking downhill thru a lot of vegetation practically unpassable.. at one point, I leaned my hand on a tree, grabbing hold of a Green Vine Snake and I FREAKED out... Ended up wandering onto private property beside the start of the trail after TWO Hours but I never was so scared, I even left trails of trash written with my name in permanent marker and even wrote a note, leaving it in a plastic bottle. That trail is no joke, and if they didn't have GPS I can see how they would've panicked like me and lost sense of direction, going further into the nothing.
As for the water issue, there are rivers, as well as the rain. They easily could've found water.
You have a great channel going there too Nightmares Before Bedtime.
Cody_nzealand ~ Wow, I could feel your panic! You couldn't pay me enough!!
These girls did NOT get lost. I’ve just started watching a doc on this and a local said it’s impossible to lose your way. It’s one path and you don’t even need a guide to find your way. Definitely foul play. Hundreds have gone missing from the same area. The presenters are walking the very same trail and yes - it’s one wide path.
It is likely that someone or something spooked them, leading them to panic and running into the jungle losing their way, would explain why the dog noped the hell out of there too. Could have been a person, a group of aggressive people, or one of the jungles predators. If nothing spooked them, it could also be that they were just dumb and got lost because of it, I have seen people do some absolutely retarded shit on a whim so I can imagine them wanting to explore a bit further, straying off the path and quickly losing their way since they were unfamiliar with the terrain and had zero experience navigating in a jungle, maybe they just underestimated it.
Of course foul play could be involved, but there are too many things speaking against it being a planned murder if you ask me.
@@Triplebrc Explain the clean cut from the leg, an animal can't do that
@@insanecrack3r wait which cut
@@bathnoodles2753 The found foot was dismembered clean.
@@insanecrack3r falling down from high place could have ream the bone and nature do the rest if eating the meat around it making the food fall off.
you need to remember the only thing holding bone is tendon and it could have weaken overtime.
You should never even leave your house without someone knowing where you're going. Your parents weren't being controlling when they told you that as a kid. It's real shit. There are three rules about leaving your family or anyone to go somewhere.
1. Tell them where you're going
2. Tell them what time you expect to be back
3. Say I love you
Rest in Peace to these girls. This is heartbreaking and terrifying.
We go hiking in the mountains in my country and before we go we always stop at the ranger station to tell them our plans and get information on our hike. To bad they didn’t stop at the police station to see if it was a safe area.
"3. Say I love you" God that hit hard for some reason
id say i llove u but other yes
I've started to always follow the third one, I always say it when someone, not just me is going out.
Mainly because I'll never know if that's the last time I see them or my last words to them.
@@TheValkyre0 ikr... Life is so unpredictable anything can happen its a cruel world
Why wasn’t it ever mentioned by anyone how their heads/skulls were never found?! Where are BOTH of their HEADS????
@drmurde55 Probably.
The majority of their bodies weren't found. Just a foot and piece of hip bone were found. Thats it
not all of their remains were found
I know this might be off topic but why did they never check the girls cameras that were in the back pack?
@@tillie1217 they did
I’ve seen many true crime documentaries and crime scene photos, but for some reason this story scares the shit out of me. So eerie and terrifying. Everything about this.
Ive seen a LOT.. but this one is so terrifying.
me too! I never forgotten this story and I have read a lot of them, a particularly haunting case and those nightime photos are straight from someones nightmare...
@@ivaivy8124 definitely the creepiest out of them all.
Definitely scary, you can make a case for either they just died naturally somehow or there was a third party that caused these girls death
@@billblaski9523That you can! I personally thought that foul play was involved but thats just me... Theres too many questions unanswered! Also, i always thought that panamanian government police,etc... covered up many things and buried, they must have found something. It's just one of those haunting cases...
Trying to imagine the amount of fear they felt with each passing hour as they were losing hope while their batteries died. Where does the mind go once you realize there's no hope? A living nightmare.
Or enlightenment.
@@kieranjaegar Your response striked me.
Liberty or Death Go away.
According to some theories, they were kidnapped, raped, murdered, chemically disposed off. So they didn't have that experience you are citing but rather a much more horrifying one...
@@rikumajumder1558 Idk, but either way is absolutely terrifying to think of.
Dont let the propaganda fool you to think that people from other cultures are as welcoming as you. I live in latin america and let me tell you that you have to know how to get around, doing the usual can be complicated.
You are so used to the safety at your countries / hometowns, when you come to places like ours you just dont know how different it can be.
A few years ago, my family took a vacation to Jamica. We stayed at a Beaches resort, and you had to sign a release contract saying that the resort was not responsible for anything if you went off-grounds.
Can confirm mom is from El Salvador and my dad is from Costa Rica. There are places the locals won't visit where a tourist wouldn't stand a chance.
@@SLCtica What a coincidence, I'm from El Salvador, I still live here.
@I will feast on your heart! someone actually once got mad at me because i said i did not want to visit latin america, i realize a bunch of things could go wrong. Doing research is key, but i'm not much of a traveler anyway on top of me watching way too many videos likes this. They tried assuring me people over there are super welcoming towards tourists which i don't doubt some are, and that everything would be fine, and i'm just ignorant. so, its funny you guys say this. There's definitely a lot to consider when travelling, not just people and customs, but the terrain and wildlife too.
Tali De be wise and alive
I think that somehow their government, or their police department written this off as an "accident" to protect their tourism industry. The fact that there are so many loopholes pointed out during the entire case.
The dog killed the 2 girls and went home. Case solved, arrest the dog.
SupremeHeartz OMG it all makes sense!
what is weird... why did the dog went home? and then, why didn't they follow the dog as a dog would know better than them to find the way back to home.
@@sudonude4062 That is really strange.
th-cam.com/video/DBIX_Y-fT24/w-d-xo.html
Blast the fucking mutt with a elephant gun!!
The missing photo probably had their attacker in it...
definitely
Yeah
My thought
No other explanation. Tour guide most likely killed them
My thoughts
I do urban exploration and visit abandoned places, and after looking into a number of disappearances, it became important to me to express this:
ALWAYS tell someone where you are going! So many people who are lost for years or pass away could have been located and saved if they had just made sure someone knew.
Also, if you get lost in a Central or South American (and even Mexico), nobody is going to make a search party or investigation unless your loved ones have the resources and/or influence to force the authorities to even care about it, I personally think that they assume that it was a cartel kidnapping so they avoid the topic like the plague since many times the police themselves are the ones that commit those kidnappings, and foreing tourists are well known to be preyed upon around these parts of the world.
and take someone with you!!!!!
YunsAvatar 100% and carry a gun, and don’t be the last in the hiking line lol
There are even countless movies on this premise, including hiking ones. Someone goes hiking, doesn't tell anyone where they are, gets into trouble and can't be easily saved, some character throughout the film is like, "hey imagine if you had told people where you're going." Sometimes movies are right! And if you, for some reason, don't want to tell anyone where you're going? Unless you're on the run for privacy reasons (so maybe like 0.01% of people), you should reevaluate if you should be going somewhere if you can't or won't tell people where you're going.
they were probably lesbians looking for isolation to have sex. the guys watching them from the forest could not resist getting involved....
the scary thing is these girls were murdered. and whoever did is still there. alive. and walking around
or they just died of natural causes
The creepy part is, due to the way the phones reacted it’s plausible that they went crazy after about 7 days in the jungle, but also possible they were murdered, but why would a murderer call 911 77 times and try to unlock the phone, seems more like they went into dehydration and were confused
Its some freaky sht
@@FrostyIgnition It wasnt 77 attempts to call 911 - it was 77 attempts to unlock the phone. Someone wanting to check for incriminating evidence?
@@FrostyIgnition but how could they get lost? The parents of the girls came and walked the trail, its a pretty straightforward trail, theres video footage of them walking it and they themselves said theres no way to get lost, unless the girls intentionally left the trail and walked hours away
that photo is of a cliff, i lightened the shadows, highlights and increased the saturation of the photo 2-3 times in picsart and it shows the rest of it
Maria P. Do you have any place to share the edited photo? :-)
I'd love to see the enhanced photo to.
PicsArt has solved so many online questions for me · I'm glad to find a like-minded user💖👍🏼
maybe they decided to kill themselves after the hunger/pain was too unbearable or some shit
"of an cliff".. Top down? or Bottom up?
I love the fact the he's investigating a crime and not the paranormal like always
ajwjjwj ananajwjw crimes are scarier than paranormal (at lest for me)
Yeah, I think a potential serial killer preying on people for decades is a lot more frightening than a film defect that people insist is a "ghost".
That's why asian horror films never scare me. They rely too much on ghosts and spirits, and I don't believe in those. Same thing with Paranormal activity movies. Creepy shit like this is only scary when you experience it yourself.
I agree completely. So Ryan if you read this, please cover more lesser-known true crime stories. There's too much videos on Dear David and other dumb ghost stories already on TH-cam.
unsolved murders and mysterious disappearances are especially juicy
Lisanne was a classmate of mine in high school. I obviously know what happened to her but I was still quite shocked to see this video.
She was the sweetest girl you could know. Always nice and laughing. She would never say anything bad. A perfect student too. And she didnt necessaraly stand out. A humble girl.
We weren’t friends or anything. But this girl is the last person who would deserve an end like this. Still very sad...
Having a real hard time listening to her story :/
And this the problem people are naive to think the rest of the world is as sweet and as kind as the one they live in.
Lex et Ordo
I agree with you that there are many naive and ignorant people on this planet. But I do not think Lisanne and Kris were totally oblivious to realities there. You can’t just assume we’re all stupid in the west and don’t know what happens in other countries.
Semper fidelis Semper Paratus
Yes as far as I understand, parts of their bodies are found. The circumstances of their deaths, while officialy stated as accidents, really are still a mystery..
iirc the parents of Kris and brother of Lisanne have done the small little hike the girls did on that day. I’ve seen the footage. It’s just a small hike, in a semi populated area. Houses and people living pretty close. And not really a path/hike you would get lost on. They were smart girls too. So hard to think they would go off track without a very very good reason..
@@SidMajors of course we arent but, their is a large number of westerners who are and that's the bad part.
Semper fidelis Semper Paratus
Yeah, I’d definetly stop her too. I mean, there’s probably places that are okay. Especially if there is a male along. But I wouldn’t want to bet on it.
Theory: the last few images were attempts to take a picture of someone following them and one of the pictures actually caught the person doing it. The last picture they could have heard a footstep and took that picture to try and see what it was.
That's such a scary theory lol
Wtf horrifying lmao
I think this theory could very well be true due to the fact that photo 509 was deleted, i think it captured the perpetrator in the photo and once the girls were dead he deleted it and put it back where it was or planted it so it didn’t seem suspicious but it was more suspicious that 509 was gone. It’s also dumb that the perp didn’t fix the names of the photos so it wasn’t obvious that 509 was missing
These European girls who travel to the most dangerous and isolated places is beyond explanation.
It makes for a good Insta photograph
@@iwasanMBTInerd Mmmmmm. Nearly gave the old man a heart attack. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
@@SupaSand wtf?
@@Nattybumco
@@JamesTaylor-on9nz wtf?
Two girls: go missing
Police: GImMe a MInUtE
*days
Pretty sad that the police did that
@@FishbedFive I don't even know what to think of your utterly stupid comment.
AL SIE Unacceptable
Third world dried up corrupt countries like this. Beautiful and all but not so much the people
I feel so sad for them.... I can't even imagine the fear they must've felt...
Damn right man you cant see shet on those jungles take my word i am panamenian
@Liberty or Death Not having an ounce of empathy is not something you should be broadcasting to the world, bud
@Liberty or Death okay boomer
@Liberty or Death but they didn't kill anyone lol
@Liberty or Death but noone else, so your example with some teenager texing while driving and smashing another car & killing people is not comparable. they underestimated the jungle's danger and in the end died but they didn't kill other people
Kind of suspicious that the girls went straight from taking pictures of themselves to not taking even one picture of themselves. Not even sunset pictures. This is especially suspicious knowing the time gap between the sudden change, and the fact that there was one deleted picture exactly before the sudden change. I'm convinced that someone was in that picture and he was not pleased with it. Possibly befriending them before turning up on them. Could be a guide or someone who knows the place (he didn't get lost and probably knew where to take them without getting caught).
Morel of the story is to not leave your home and don’t talk to people case closed
Jas D
the case is closed by extrapolating a moral?
uuuh, no...not by any measure.
Have you not seen The Strangers? Why did the strangers kill the married couple? “Because they were at home”
what does mushrooms have to do with this?
You spelled morsel wrong.
@@trevorrogers95 So did you, it is moral
Panamanian here. I used to hike through that trail with my family and friends, so I got chills recognizing a few parts of the path in the video.
The trail is clearly marked, and it travels through many houses of indigenous people, going through open hills, even a a few rivers while you ascend the mountain before it truly gets into uncharted rain forest. Even though there is a considerate amount of people at the base of the mountain (people live there, go there, theres even a restaurant connected to one of its entrances), the only exception to solitude is the occasional small hut in the higher areas.
In terms of terrain, it can be rather dangerous without a guide because there is little visibility through the tropical jungle, very rocky with sudden cliffs, but as stated before, the path is clearly marked and no one should get lost on their own. There are no large predators in the area, the only possibility for a dangerous animal would be venomous snakes, frogs, or plants. In terms of water supplies, there are a few streams and the like available, and our dry season ends at around that time, so there are chances of rain (Id have to look at the weather reports of those days). Dehydration would be enhanced by hot water vapor and humidity, reducing their energy supplies. None of the possible causes of natural death explain the condition their bodies were found.
Our police force is not prepared for emergencies inside dense tropical forests ironically enough. Their counterpart, SENAFRONT, has the jungle training, but theyre stationed around the borders to stop drug related crime. The further you go from the main cities, the less equipment, resources, manpower and know how SENAPROC has due to centralization by the government. Just to paint a picture and add more context about organization here, the legal justice system usually waits for years to properly solve simple crimes in court.
Also I will add that pretty much everyone has a phone in this country, with 6 million phones vs 4 million people, with a clear emphasis for smart phones.
Boquete is a small tourist town in the highlands, where there are a lot of retired and/or tourist European and Americans, with a constant influx of visitors. Really anyone could have the knowledge to access those phones and tamper with the info at a basic level.
Also Jesus, they actually mentioned the girl killed in Bocas. Im kind of surprised with the connection made in the video, as right now there are rumors of an ongoing investigation of a serial killer through the FBI, that someone seasonally travels to Panama to target other tourists, specifically young white girls, before heading home as a type of vacation feature. There are previous cases of the like, ie the Wild Bill case.
(Also all the footage of Panama here is from Panama City, which is on the other side of the country, faraway from where these incidents took place.)
Miranda Mendez So what do you suspect this was??
I appreciate your input
Very informative Thanks for all the additional info!
@Jaw Less • 14 years ago . Just a in depth perspective from a Panama native I found it quite interesting because I'm fascinated w this case and the mystery that surrounds it. If that's not the case w u then it might not be a good read.
going off subject, you have the name of a celebrity, maybe you'll be famous on day...
My theory:
1) they got lost
2) one had an accident and got severely injured or killed
3) the other one went to look for help
4) she died later due to exhaustion or lack of food/water
5) bodies decomposed due to hot climate and wild animals
BreakLux This generally makes the most sense and is very likely what did happen.
its not hot climat.
@@1w598 They are killed, I'm sure of it.
BreakLux this is definitely the most logical explanation. 1. There was a very high chance of them getting lost because they were obviously not familiar with the area. 2. This would also make sense because based of the pictures found on Kris' phone, the area looks pretty hilly and mountainous, which would explain why one of the girls had an accident where they just stepped on a rock the wrong way or maybe even fell down one of the cliffs which would most certainly hurt or maybe even kill them. And of course the other would have gone and ran for help which would explain the numerous emergency calls, failed PIN guessing attempts by most likely Lissanne, and the dry backpack on the riverside, as well as the shorts. 3. Lissanne dying would also make sense because she was probably trying to get out of the jungle, and sense the was over the span of a few days, she couldn't find her way out as she was unfamiliar with the area. 4. The bodies would have most likely decomposed, as it is a proven fact that bodies decompose faster in hotter, more humid climates, which taken in mind, 1. They were in a jungle. and 2. It was the summer, which means more hotter, humid weather. woah this took me forever to type, anyways, all im saying is that all the points you are making make perfect sense and are the most likely explanation.
@@nolagranola13 There was a guide involved. I'm sure this guide lured them into a trap.
My girlfriend said that they were taking those pictures just to mark where they have passed before, to make sure that they wasnt walking in circles
Actually that makes sense. But what about the 87 pitch black images? What were they trying to capture though? It still baffles me.
@@hazri8758 they had an Iphone right? Iphone has this function to take a lot of photos in sequence, how much time between every pitch black photo?
@@LucasSilva-rs7yl woah I didn't know that. Now I'd like to see the timestamp of all photos. Nexpo didn't cover this.
@@hazri8758 Yeah, makes sense, I will check that too!
Nah, it is far more likely that they used the flash of their camera (not their phone, btw) to draw attention. They used the flash as a signal, in the hope that someone would see it piercing through the dark.
Most of the pictures were taken from the exact same position, located at the edge of an incline.
I highly doubt that they were using the camera to make sense of their surroundings. At this point, they have been in the jungle for several days. They probably knew better than to be on the move in pitch black darkness. Because a jungle at night is REALLY dark. Zero point in being moving at night, as you simply get lost even more. And probably will take an hour to cover even 100 meters.
Even resuce forces (under most circumstansces) don't navigate through the forest (let alone a jungle) at night. It simply makes no sense.
today is April 1, 2019 ... just 5 years after their death ... may their souls rest in peace! and may we all be protected from evil
There need to investigation
They already tried to jump out their coffins: it's a prank, bro
candy Krith it probably just isn’t worth the effort since it is extremely dated.
I wish i know what happened before i die. This is one of the curiositys that hount my dreams for years.
"may we all be protected from evil" when we just had a mass shooting...
In the Tropics, body decomposition is very rapid due to numerous insects and high temperatures and humidity.
Ted Logan ew
True. Also animals could have gotten at the bodies.
thats realy nasty, but true
ah yes, you seem to know a lot about corpses my ominous sounding friend, I am sure, however, that you are to be trusted
In the tropic investigators do take into consideration that to calculate the decomposition, so if they say the body should be found in better condition that means they compared witht he location the body was fund and not in siberia
wait.
how come they didn't follow the dog? I know it sounds dumb but, the dog obviously left the girls behind for a reason....no? I just think its weird how the dog came back just fine
나탈리 yeah you could probably ask where *insert name here* is if the dog knows the girls well enough and the dog would go to around the area that it left them
I mean sure you could kill two hikers just fine but why would you kill there dog?
Maybe they were attacked by some sort of wild predator? Dog doesn't know them well, fight or flight, he took off quickly?
armando1is1great possibly the dog’s leash slipped out of one of their hands and they got lost/hurt trying to find it
@@wowsolit7248 That could be possible too. Crazy how so many things could've possibly happened but we'll likely never know
_"Hell is empty cause most devils are on earth"_
-William Shakespeare
4 days for the police to respond?? That's one of the worst things about this lol
They knew they are dead.
Absolutely terrible.
When someone goes missing, the police wait for sometime before logging a FIR.
The waiting time varies from place to place.. for eg. Here in India it's 24 hrs.
Maybe in Panama they wait for 4 days
Authorities said they assumed the girls found people and were partying and weren’t concerned. Smh.
4 days some Detroit shit
dutch tourists make tourist murder headlines alot. they've got a really safe upbringing and are very curious people
Yeah, that's sad but true.
Because they grow up surrounded by very safe environments, they kind of believe they don't have to fear anything but reality is not like that.
However, loosing track of reality is very common when you've grown up like that. I'm from Colombia (so yeah, no the safest and most developed country in the world). I'm not rich by any means but I was born in a very good family with more than enough money for a good house and quality education for me. Even I know that I live inside a bubble but very rich people (I don't have anything against them but of course money can give you a crazy amount of privilege specially in this kind of countries) often live in a completely different world, so they tend to be pretty naive. Victims in most disappearances and crimes like this one tend to be rich people from the big cities. There's even a story of a well know director of one of the top universities in the country (actually one of my city) that went to a national park on the US and got lost because he stopped following the path, apparently he was taking pictures of birds when he saw one he hadn't seen before and tried to follow him. He was like 10 or more days inside the forest when he was found alive (gladly). It all happened because he didn't take precautions.
@Vince 76 the fools are praising themselves, they are well educated , they learned humanity and they thought the entire world is a safe place like their country , but sadly they found themselves surrounded by stupid and ignorant people just like you, from the beginning of the case , the police behavior shows a lot .( Searching for them 4days after the report) what a shame.
@Vince 76 Those pesky Marxists, they're just like that one group of people that country starts with an I
@Vince 76 A christian talking about brainwash? Go figure...
as a dutch person, i can confirm that lol
3am is the wrong time to be watching this alone Rip
Hebs omg right 😂😂👀
Hebs If you live in a First world country you shouldn’t have a problem
OMG 3AM IS SUCH A SPOOKY TIME. ITS TOTALLY NOT A NORMAL HOUR
@@nunzioish8477 I think they mean that they are up really late and that is not a good time to be watching spooky shit.
@@zaleshomeowner3493 maybe but the fact that its 3 am I just hate
Whoever the killers were, they must have been very good killers or they got lucky and succeeded in sending detectives on a wild goose chase. Either that or whoever took up investigations was thoroughly incompetent. This genuinely terrified the hell out of me and i'm rarely every moved by anything. There is absolutely no doubt that they were murdered. If they had gotten lost and were attempting to find their way back, they would probably have died of starvation and their bodies would have been found intact.
Probably the latter since they didn't bother to look till day 4 i hope they rest in peace
Panamenian here. This is all rumors and stuff, but this case is bigger than it may seem, like 5 to 6 of the people that knew the girls were taking the trial died or had accidents and unable to testity or say their side of the story.
Even worse, the taxi driver that left them close to base camp, had important info but told a couple of reporters, that if he were to say anything, his life and family will be done for and to just drop the case or some people would come looking for them.
Hell, the police was "doing" everything they could, cuz some policemen actually do take seriously missing cases, specially here since kidnappings are a thing but more if they are foreigners but people FROM the governent were meddling in the investigations and had private meetings with the dutch government that literally no one knew, it was after the fact cuz the cars leaving a hotel close to the city had their flag but that was pretty much it. Also, the path they were walking is long but is relatively easy to go through and we have no cannibal tribe here, making the case even weirder because why they went to such lengths to not finding the girls at the right time and then covering everything altogether.
My country is filled with corruption to the brim but when foreigners are involved, they twist their leg like no tomorrow and do whatever international org or government tells them to do, to make everything easier and maintain the appearences and good relationship.
I'm a hiker, so from that perspective I would say yes, the girls went into that hike completely unprepared. With that said, the missing photo had to have been deleted on purpose. They wouldn't do that. The fact that it came between the last day time and first night time images tells me it was a photo of something important. I do not necessarily believe they were using the flash to light up the trail. I think they were using the flash to try to see someone who was out there. I cannot imagine a more terrifying situation to be in. I've slept in the woods. I've gone out intentionally without a tent and I am very much at home out there. BUT to be out there, alone, with no means to communicate KNOWING someone or something was out there in the dark.... harrowing doesn't begin to describe that hike. That photo is crucial and I think someone still has it.
Richard Dupuis
Maybe it was a photo of themselves that they didn’t like?
@@highadmiraljt5853 right! 🤣🤣
But why would 3rd party just leave the camera
@@TheAivaxT because then maybe someone would be looking for the missing camera.
It looks to me like they were using the flash from the camera to see things ahead of them, like cliffs. Perhaps the deleted photos were blurry pictures or instances where they forgot to turn on flash?
4 days? That's negligent homicide by the local police
It’s Panama, a shithole
its not uncommon in Panama
Third world gonna third world
@@George-jj2tp shithole? Doesnt america murder unarmed people in thee day time. So...
@@panama2468 No cambia el hecho de que este pais sea una mierda...
If the police started looking when they got told the girls may have survived
My dude, its fucking central america if the police did their job a lot of problems would be solved
You think right? Occams Razor.
@J J that has nothing to do with this
@J J Central american countries are not narco states. The only one is Venezuela, and it's not even part of Central America.
@@christophersutterlin6945 Or OR, maybe we stop blaming others and maybe start learning how to survive in the wilderness and learn how to navigate - seeing as iPhones have compasses installed on them which could have gotten them back home in less than probably 4 hours. If you're not learning how to read a map, use a compass, or just general survival, it's your own fault if you get lost and die on a hike. Stop trying to blame literally every damn thing on police.
When you go to a place where you different than anyone else in that area, like clothes, skin, hair, race. Be careful
This can't be overstated.
Even in your own country.
@@colecooper5836 Not everybody lives in a third world country.
Yeah, I find that foreigners know less about areas as such, and ultimately are seen as the ideal target. I'm unsure of how they get a kick out of committing these heinous crimes though -- really truly, it's just a waste of everybody's time.
As much as I want to say that it feels these types of videos are essentially romanticizing the whole case, and undervaluing this person's death, I still use these to acknowledge different cases, and use them in examples.
+ In a previous comment I wrote, I was talking about how anime/video games does NOT affect your hostility or ambience. In that comment, I referenced an 11 year old Japanese girl, who had committed a murder IN school. After finding out she delved into horror genres, and read a ton of things circling that concept vaguely, people came to the conclusion that it was -- simply put -- the books and gore she watched and read that was at fault. Frankly, I don't think those books were the cause of her feeling the heavy desire to kill, but again, you can never be certain. 11 year olds are influenced quite easily.
when you go anywhere where you can stand out like a sore thumb for something you either can't hide or can't change you have to be careful. it doesn't matter what it is or where you are.
I'm from Panama and generally people don't hike this mountain without a guide because of how dangerous it is. The elevation there is different and it can be extremely hot in the morning and extremely cold at night in Boquete. I've never known of anyone to hike there alone.
Yep I hate to say it but it's pretty idiotic behaviour at work here. I know young people(under 21) can be naive but this is just so extreme even with that in mind. I'd imagine even most dumb kids would know not to hike in a jungle alone when you come from Europe and the like.
I bet the afternoon gets even hotter
sudo nude are you from panama?
sudo nude you ever been to panama?
The jungle is one of the worst places to get lost, so many awful things could have happened, should always have a guide.
Very much agreed!
Oldboy Stoddard I disagree, the desert or the ocean are worse places to get lost in
ElementGuns12 I have been stranded in the desert outside of Tuscon AZ, luckily we ran into campers who gave us water, lack of water is bad, I didnt really think about the ocean, which is worse obviously, but there is alot of stuff that wants to eat you in the jungle, plus infections, poisonous plants etc. But yeah the ocean will just swallow you whole.
Oldboy Stoddard Tucson native here, and yeah having no water in Tucson is not a good idea.
Oldboy - getting lost is awful.
The girls couldn't have survived that long without water? Well first of all, which phone survives that long without being charged?
tj nair they were using the phone very Minimally only using it for attempted phone calls to the police and to take photos It’s not like using TH-cam which eats up battery life but I have no idea how they could last that long without water
@Humble Scrub It's still risky to drink river water without boiling it or using a filter.
@@quickcar5255 Yeah that makes sense. Girls dying of thirst wouldn't drink the river water because it's yucky. Are you stupid?
@@tingispingis You should try hiking but go with others.
@@quickcar5255 i would rather drink it to survive rather than to die of hyrdration
The photo at 5:15, when enhanced, shows the silhouette of what looks like a figure, standing and waiting. I personally believe this is their killer.
Really where do i look i cant see it
Bottom right I think
Photo was taken angled downwards. If he no spiderman i don't think that is possible
@@o.b7398 There’s clearly a path down there, so it checks out.
almost looks hunched over
They were murdered. Police took less intrest because they didn't want to spoil their tourists.
allegedly this wasn't a tourist destination though.
@@kurzackdThats not exactly true anymore. Besides each tourists spend 365 dollars on average per day. Thats a lot of money for them.
@Frischeparadies what? he's talking about the powers that be in those areas, they don't want people being put off going because they inject income, literally has nothing to do with the girls valuables, plus, if you murder someone, last thing you'd do is bring evidence with you.
@Frischeparadies There are no photos for 8 days, and suddenly some random photos in the dark that show almost nothing. Why no photos in the day, why no video, no recordings on the camera on the phone? Anyone would leave some message when they got lost or thought they might die. Instead we get some creepy photos 8 days later that probably weren't taken by them.
One of night the photos is supposedly of Kris hair, but it's completely clean, after 8 days of being lost in the jungle? Makes no sense.
The phone calls are all made at around 10am and 1pm every day. If they were moving around at different altitudes that makes no sense. They wouldn't be at best place to check the signal at exactly the same time each day. Could be done not by them, but the kidnapper from a location they knew there was no signal. It was shown that there was phone reception at the trail on the day they got lost.
The bag was downstream from where the bones were found, yet completely undamaged by water or any elements. Everything inside also neatly organised. Yet supposedly the bones that were nearby and upstream from the bag were washed there by the river. So washed upstream? The girls' bones were also bleached, and no animal damage, bites/ scratches, not even microscopic ones found on them. No major bones or skulls were found despite, there being no animal predators there that could eat a skull.
The camera photo 509, the one photo that was after the last daytime photo and before the first nighttime photo was deleted from a computer, as if it was deleted from the camera there would be a way to partially recover it.
Other coincidences like the creepy tour guide, who offered them a tour and stay at his ranch, girls rejected, then their bag and remains are found half a mile from his ranch, found by one the tour guides friends so they can collect the reward money.
There are many, many more unsettling facts that make it suspect, and don't seem to add up about this case if you just do some digging around. Even if you still believe they just got lost, you still have to admit how many suspicious weird facts there are surrounding this case.
@Frischeparadies I wouldn't say they can be easily explained, but I would gladly hear the explanations for the things I listed in my previous reply. I don't think someone followed them for 10 days. I think they were taken on the first day, their camera and phones taken, and then later the bag returned for the reward money and so the search doesn't continue, while setting up the evidence. They carefully crafted the evidence and set up the fake night photos to mislead. So they can have their cake and eat it too. The phone calls as I said can easily be made by the perpetrators from a location with no signal. I don't buy the story of them not leaving a single identifiable message that they were lost or hurt in all of the 11 days, despite having 3 working electronic devices and other ways of leaving notes in completely undamaged perfect condition backpack. Also their shoes that were found, one of them was almost in perfect condition, nearly impossible if they actually walked around the jungle for 11 days.
The photos, were also clearly manipulated at some point by the time they got to Dutch government/newspapers. For example the night photos that have a different photo number but are actually a duplicate with adjusted brightness. Other cases like it, but that's the most obvious. Of course the chain is so long we don't know at what point the photos were manipulated.
Also the timestamps of some photos don't add up one being that at 14;00 on April 1st Kris had messaged her boyfriend. Yet according to the photo timestamps they were by the first stream beyond the summit where there was no reception. The taxi driver claimed to have taken them there at only 13;40 which would explain them still having service, but so the photo timestamps are faked. Why? Also then the same taxi driver gets murdered few months later.
Similarly there is an undated photo of them in a swimming in Caldera with 2 local boys. It's possibe that this is after they returned from the hike. Both boys also then were murdered later. There is so, so much more suspicious about this case.
Lots of people who retraced their steps concluded it's almost impossible to get lost there, and if they fell down either the ravine or the monkey bridge, they would have been found. Something else happened to them.
The researcher who examined the bones concluded that they did not fall off a bridge and there was no animal scavenging of their remains. This alone should be enough to suspect foul play.
I don't know for certain how they died, but I don't for one second believe that they just "got lost", "fell", and that there was no foul play of some sort involved. I would list more of the things that I can't explain if they were not murdered, but again, it seems your mind is made up, just like mine is, so we can agree to disagree.
Well, very tragic, but a lesson for the living. Don't go anywhere without telling someone your destination and estimated time of return. And gear up for places like jungle or any large wilderness. May they rest in peace.
i hate to say this, but they were REALLY naive.
Most women are when they travel.
I think the dog ran off the trail (chasing an animal, or it decided to go home), Kris and Lisanne went after it, going far from the trail, and they became lost and disoriented in the jungle. If one of them were injured, it would slow them down, and infection, in that environment, would be certain, if the injury was severe. Dehydration, starvation, and exhaustion would slow and disorient them even further, as the days went on.
IMO the backpack was left when she became too weak to carry it, then days/weeks later some random hiker touched (possibly moved) it, leaving fingerprints, but didn't bother to take it.
The photos were taken as a means to light up the jungle in the dark. The missing pic is before the first night shot, so maybe they took a pic in the day, before the situation became dire, and they didn't like the shot, so they deleted it.
Such a sad case, and so horrible that the local police didn't send out a search party on the first day, when they might have been found alive.
The missing photo wasnt deleted from the device, the police said only a computer could remove the pic without trace.
It's horrifying and sad trying to imagine their last moments. It brings tears to my eyes. :'(
Me 2 rip for both of them i still think FG the tour guide is one of the killers
They are in a better place.
They booked an experienced hiker to tour them there the next morning. I don’t believe they intended to go far. Either a person or animal chased them off route. That’s why the dog likely ran away and day pictures turned into night pictures too see any trail or way back. What those girls went through is what we can all agree, a nightmare.
They were lost so maybe they had taken those photos as a way to remember the areas they had already been so they don't double back around.
This story is absolutely terrifying to me
Something very unsettling about it.
It hasnt left my mind since i learned of it last week, so creepy
This is hard to watch, knowing what they must have felt during their last days.. the hunger, desperation, delirium. I can’t even imagine. The pictures make it even more difficult because we can literally see what they saw during their last moments as they struggled to survive.
I think the deaths were an accident. They took on more than they could handle and unfortunately it cost them their lives. It’s another Into the Wild type of story and a good reminder to not fuck with nature by going into unknown forested areas without truly knowing what you’re doing.
RIP.
Ohh this is sad baby?? What your government does is sad.
@@Akinlicious20 wow ok buddy calm down a bit, ok? There's no need to be hostile
It was not an accident whatever happened to them. Too much evidence points towards that they were murdered by somebody or a bunch of people... The Panamanian authorities probably deleted photo 509 because it was pointing towards the person/people who killed them. They deleted the photo because if tourists knew there is a killer on a loose, nobody will ever step into Panama... it is so obvious. Maybe the killer/s was/were not that bright to get rid of their whole remains or they left some of their bones and their backpack for a reason. Maybe to push for the accident theory, exactly what the Panamanian authorities also did.
@@JF-xi2ko It looks way more like a accidental death than a purposeful one.
@@newwordblues3030 How? Just watch more detailed videos and you will understand. It is so obvious.
There is something so erie about this story that terrifies me
That deleted image could have definitely been a picture of the girls or the murderer
Yup
That's true too. The cops would play a huge part in this. They probably found some evidence, and deleted it because they didn't want to go deeper into it.
Or they were paid not to.
Very much agreed!
What I don't understand is the narrator claims the police investigation found that the picture was not deleted from the phone...so did the killer delete the picture from his computer and then place the phone back on the trail? Doesn't make sense. If he grabbed the phone, he would have deleted the picture from the phone itself, and if the picture was deleted due to a mishap with the phone (dropping it on a rock etc.) it likely would have deleted more than just a single specific picture.
I've been lost in the forest, fumbling around in the buck brush, trying to get back to a well known trail. It will get your heart racing, especially when you end up right where you began...we had gone in a circle
Sweet. A "forest". With killer dears and killer beebers.
That's a beautiful story, did you have time to delete some pictures and scatter your dead foot a few miles away from your final resting place?
Idk why people are so bitter by the fact that u got lost in the forest. Someone hurt them badly i guess lmao
It's so sad that they were going to volunteer at the school, and the school was rude to them for being early! May they rest in peace ;(
Yeah should’ve been a red flag for them to get back home in hindsight
I don’t think lissane would have tried to open her friends phone. Reason being dialing 911 or whatever their 911 is you don’t need to unlock a phone for emergencies. My guess is the people who attacked them did that. Sad. RIP may the lord let us smash whoever did that.
This can be read in two different ways.....
U dont need a pin to use the flashlight or make emergency calls
Most smartphones have an optional security feature which requires you to enter/swipe your password before any features can be used. With the exception of emergency phone calls
back in 2014 idk if the flashligth was even an available drop menu feature depending on the year of their phones too
Exactly. Even if you’ve never used an Iphone before, ‘Emergency’ option is very clearly just at the bottom of the passcode screen. It’s impossible to overlook it after 77 times.
Depends on the phone. Keep in mind that this was back in 2014, when some features were not quite available. Kris, having an iPhone likely had access to her flashlight and emergency calls if it’s anything like mine (5S).
@@ColdBaltBlue It does not depend on the phone, it is required for any cell phone to be able to dial emergency services without requiring authentication or even mobile service....if a tower can get a signal to the mobile phone even if it is locked and inactive emergency services can be called.
People *cannot* survive 7 - 10 days without water. Most people cannot survive more than 3 days without water. By this time, a person is suffering from intense headaches, severe muscle aches and spasms as well as incredible disorientation. There is *no way* that a person could continue for another 4 - 7 days.
Unless they drank water from the river of course. Not that it would be safe drinking water but water nonetheless. It did rain also.
Oh 👍
Searia kett I lasted 5 days with out drinking a drop in 2008.
@@lightbeing8174 It depends on the climate, in a favourable environment you probably could go 5/6 days without water. But in the middle of a jungle I tend to think you'd be in deep trouble after just a couple.
@@lightbeing8174 Well the phone activity shows at least one person (probably Lisanne) was still alive at least 10 days later.
I don't believe in the paranormal nor do I believe there was 3rd party involvement. Even if the water wasn't safe drinking water its still much better than no water at all and I think its possible if we assume they drank it that they could have survived that long. We also don't know how much water they took with them. They might have taken a decent amount to begin with.
What happened is they stupidly thought the trail at the end of the normal trail led back to the beginning and followed it, they got lost off the path and couldn't find their way back. They tried to call for help but couldn't get any signal, aside from one call that broke up after a single second. They survived on water they had, or rainwater, or water from a river/lake or both. Then they come across the monkey bridge where Kris probably falls off and hits her head, either becoming badly injured or dies. Lisanne takes some photos to try and document the spot as well as the 'bloody hair' photo of Kris you can find online.
Lisanne carries on for a short time after, unable to use Kris's phone (explains incorrect pincode) before suffering some kind of fall and dying also.
The only strange thing about this case is the backpack and how it seemingly arrived miles away from where the girls were located and the fact the woman who handed it in said she was certain it was not where she found it the day before. But its possible the river carried it to where it had been found or someone else picked it up and didn't realise exactly what it was at first. Before then leaving it somewhere they knew it would be found.
If you ever decide to go hiking into the wilderness being a satellite phone, life straw, gps tracker, flare gun, survival rifle, knife, and MREs.
What if I can't be one of these things?
@@JR-me7yk then don't go
And an M16
AND A FREAKING GRENADE LAUNCHER.
lol
my question is - why would a perpetrator go through all of the effort of deleting one photo, rather than just taking the camera or destroying it completely?
That's the right question to ask. The answer is, there was no perpetrator.
You left out a huge component of this case, by failing to mention a particular local guide who the girls became acquainted with the day before they began their hike. This guide had offered to guide them THE DAY BEFORE, along the same trail they took the following day. He had offered to take them down the trail & to his isolated ranch in the area to spend the night & then take them back. The girls declined his offer THAT DAY, but supposedly agreed to have him guide them the next day, whereupon the girls simply took off by themselves. We know this is mostly true, because the guide showed up at the house where the girls were staying to pick them up, but the host family told him that the girls had already left on the hike themselves. For some strange reason, the guide then demanded to see the room that the girls were staying in. The hosts allowed him to inspect the room. Some locals claimed the guide was very friendly & professional, while others, including tourists who had hired him in the past, stated he was a womanizer & had groped or tried to touch many women inappropriately. One local resort refused to use this guide due to the same reason. Also, this guide would only take parties of women, or at least women being present within a party, he would NOT guide "men only". THIS FACT ALONE IS VERY DISTURBING. This same guide also helped in the search & even pointed authorities to the exact area where some of the girl's possessions & remains were found. Very strange. Many believe he set the girls up for some kind of sex crime deep in the wilderness, killed them, and then spent the following days trying to cover up or at least stage the area to make it seem like the girls were alone & had some kind of serious accident involving deadly injuries. But the Panamanian authorities REFUSE to allow outside investigators to see the details of the case. The local authorities are more worried about keeping a good image for tourism, so they too, are guilty of trying to cover this case up. Locals stated the official search & ensuing investigation was a big joke. THIS IS YET ANOTHER CASE PROVING WHY WOMEN SHOULD NEVER TRAVEL IN ANY COUNTRY WITHOUT TRUSTED MALE COMPANIONS. Even "going out at night" in your very own town without male companions is not wise at all. Women are soft targets, and the sad truth, is there are far too many male predators running around.
@Mitch Jones Fragile ego Thank you.
Howabouthetruth You know what’s really fucking scary, the fact that the comment just above yours mentioned encountering this very guide, and claimed he “loved women” but probably wouldn’t do anything to him. The comment added that after the disappearance, the commenter kept in communication with the guide through text, who apparently went on to find the bones of the girls by himself. If I knew any better that would be our prime suspect
But a strong independent women needs no man!
Important info here! That sounds extremely suspicious. I just noticed something too looking at the last picture in the video... one of the girls was wearing the bra found in the backpack during the day time photographs. It was sticking out of her shirt and I noticed it was the same pattern as one in the backpack. Why would both girls just remove their bras and place them in a backpack? Seems odd to me. Personally I would keep mine on if I’m hiking. It’s like someone was keeping a souvenir from the girls in the backpack, it just seems weird now because you said it could have been a sex crime.
@BMT Yes. I just read a case about a German 17 year old whose death in Malta is very mysterious. His body was returned to his family with no organs, not even the brain. The police was evasive about the family's questions; the doctor was blatantly lying that the organs were eaten by rats. Crucial pieces of evidence were missing, specifically a go pro camera. Seems to me the government is willing to cover up to avoid risking negative press to their tourism or they are just corrupted. Also, police just aren't always going to hit the jackpot even if they aren't corrupted. Eliza Lam's case of dying in a rooftop water tank was also very suspicious but the police couldn't find the murderer and it was concluded to be an accident rather than a homicide. So ...there's just risk to travelling in a foreign place and you really can't trust the police to help you out. If your things got stolen, the police cannot help you much either.
I’m familiar with this story and it’s important to note that there was a tour guide living in/near the village they were staying at who was known for his interest in younger female travelers and described as creepy by the people who lived in the area
Exactly. I've read so much on this case and clearly he murdered them.
yeah I saw on another video there were other girls rating his tour guide online.... and some girl wrote that she felt very unsafe and that he had joked about chopping her legs off ............. ugh. Sick bastard.
@@ameliel8792 Don't hire a creep as guide. Better still, don't go.
I will never understand why people think going on vacation in poor countries and bad areas is a good idea.
DoubleVision
They often have the most beautiful terrain for some reason
Panama doesnt strike me as a "poor country", at least from what Ive been told.
yeah, that's a bad idea, instead of going to Paris, England
"nOo lEtS gO To paNaMA"
@@MisterBig-10 Sorry to say that, but that's natural selection at work here
@@eiriseven most countries in the Caribbean and central America are poor or underdeveloped.... honestly they have beautiful sceneries but don't wonder to far from the safe areas... basically, don't leave the resort.
I've seen this story explained in detail before but I still wanted to see it told by you. You are awesome
my dad is a roofer, a commercial roofer, meaning he does hotel and business's roofs. he mostly just stays in florida, but he does go out of state, sometimes out of country if its a high paying job. he did a job in Jamaica, a VERY nice and luxurious resort that was paying a TON of money for my dad and his workers (dads a regional manager) to fix a bunch of leaks and damages. so they went, and on the way from the airport, the shuttle to the rental car place was a rickety bus. someone literally tried to ROB them. like at a stop, someone flung open the door and said to empty their bags. the driver got up and BEAT THE GUY WITH A NIGHTSTICK. he fell onto the road and the driver just kept on driving. my dad had seen worse growing up so he was unfazed for the most part. when he got to the resort, it was surrounded by giant walls. the manager said to never ever go outside the walls unless it was absolutely necessary. he gave them free rooms to stay in while they worked. he said the entire property was gorgeous and dreamy, like something out of a movie. but he had hired some Jamaican people to work with his crew as well, they needed money and my dad needed extra hands. so he went outside of the property, away from the safety of the walls to their bank to deposit their money every friday. the first friday, he was leaving the bank and witnessed an actual murder. he was in his car, and a man was crossing the street and going into the bank, and 3 people came of nowhere and stabbed this man multiple times, took everything from his pockets, his watch his shoes, and left him dead in the street. my dad sped out of there so fast, and told the manager at the hotel what happened. he always made sure to have 3 other guys with him when he left the walls every friday. he was gone for a month, and my mom was nervous the whole time and called him every night after he told her what he saw.
moral of the story, if locals tell you not to go somewhere, DONT GO THERE. especially when youre unfamiliar with the area. those countries are beautiful but thats what google images are for. my heart aches for those girls, but its not all like the movies. these other countries are not like america.
Just don't leave America
Hairy Sweetapples people go missing here in America all the time...look up missing 411
@@xvenacavax also they're from the Netherlands...
"these countries are not like America" yeah, pretty sure they are just slightly more dangerous than us with all the shootings we have here.
im from panama.. and its not like Jamaica...if you go alone to a unknown forest with no trail, accidents can happen,,,yes not like america, we have less shootings, kidnappings, murders, drug abuse, rape..so thank God they are not like america.
Im watching this 1:30 early morning then suddenly our cat fcking make a loud noise...
My soul left my damn body
You okay mate?
Was it a cat fart?
you ain't in a jungle mate
friggin cats
I laughed so hard reading this that my soul left my body.......its weird how this story is so scary if youre home alone at night. Same here
They were killed, used, and their phone was stolen. Possibly by corrupt police. 77 incorrect attempts at unlocking the phone? Missing images? It seems pretty clear what happened. RIP.
Pure fantasy and prejudice. And poorly informed: 77 attempts to call 112/911, not to enter the pin.
The police weren't corrupt. Panama's police weren't going to waste their limited resources on finding some stupid rich white girls who were likely dead, who made an asinine decision of going into the fucking jungle without any guidance or experience. It's almost as if there were bigger priorities.
George C ah yes let’s not waste anytime towards trying to locating two young women as obviously there’s bigger things then a supposed murder!
@@cybernerdcreations4475 They spent indeed a lot of resources in the search; When new evidence surfaced (backpack) they continued and found more bones, it allowed to confirm that the girls died. However no evidence of the cause of death has ever been found.
Aylin Guluzade no, you’re wrong. Rewatch it and listen closely. Yes, many calls to 911 but there were 77 incorrect pins entered as well.
I'm from the Netherlands. I remember watching the news about this growing up. Truly haunting. Especially when they found human remains and it was confirmed to belong to one of the girls. It shook the country so much that now if you say you're going to the panamas, people will assume you're suicidal
I'm from the Netherlands too and this is complete bullshit lmfao
@@LeetTheMan1337 Dan heb je denk ik niet zo heel goed het nieuws gevolgt in die tijd.
True, only the suicidal ones go there in the name of feminism 😅
Absolute Lunatics!!
In regards to 8:10 smartphones allow you to access the flashlight and an emergency dial pad without needing a pass code.
I am not so sure about the flashlight, now might be the case but 4 years ago smartphones software was a little bit different.
Depends on the phone really, nowadays yes that’s pretty normal, but 5 years ago. Not sure
Not everyone is phone savvy.. I've seen people actually download ad filled garage flashlights because they were unaware of a built in one. Not gonna access that without unlock
I got my phone about 4 years ago... I can't access the flashlight without unlocking my phone...
@@jseden I highly doubt the girls were stupid. Most likely there were no such features due to the type of phone and the fact that it was years ago
I've known about this case in passing since it happened, but this is the first time I realised how spooky the whole thing is. That thing about image 509? Man, that's chilling.
actually the image 509 I believe I saw on the web was a picture of bloodied hair of one of the girls. The picture wasn't released. There's theories the other girl may have snapped a picture but then deleted it because she didn't want to look at her dead friend. Another popular theory is that the killer took a picture of it which could be possible.
@@TheWorldOfMeghan how can you have seen it if it was deleted and authorities were unable to recover it? wtf...
chris truth
@@TheWorldOfMeghan That's not 509 it's a different picture.
It also wasn't bloody but you can see what looks like the girl's face covered up by her hair.
@Christopher Bingham ooh okay
Moral of the story: foreign white girls please stop going hiking by yourselves in the Panamanian jungle without bringing weapons or telling anyone exactly where you're going.
Bringing weapons? How about flashlights, maps and compass? I mean a machete/hatchet is standard kit if thats what you mean by weapon.
A gun does you literally 0 good in the pitch black.
@@JarthenGreenmeadow Yes, a weapon. I never even mentioned guns lol. It should be common sense to bring hiking-tier gear if you going to do just that, so much so i didn't even bother mentioning it.
sadly tho depending on where you go, there might be laws against people carrying weapons who aren't from their country (not saying it shouldn't be done, just saying you can get in trouble either way)
@Gavan That's their own naivety, not feminism as a whole. Don't bring that shit into it.
@@DarkArterialGore I can't believe the kind of person you have to be to comment something like that under the case where two *real girls died* after being lost for *10 days* in a jungle.
"They wrote on Facebook that they intended to walk around Boquete, and it was reported that they had been seen having brunch with two young Dutch men before embarking on the trail."
Since we're all speculating, I'll toss in my theory of the missing photo and the possibility that she took a picture of her friend who had fallen, and perished, as evidence should she be rescued; However, further down the line and coming to terms with her own death (also a possibility of guilt of leaving her friend behind, dead or not, since she is too now just going to die) she decides to delete the photo, a photo that one can only imagine wasn't easy to look at, nor would be a pleasant sight, so that the only photos left to be seen are the ones of them happy-- where she really wanted to be in here last moments, and how she prefered to be remembered.
Don't think you would think of doing that when you're lost in the jungle and losing hope of surviving...
Anecdotal.
Also, people do have the possibility to lose all hope, y'know.
If it was deleted from the phone itself, it can still be recovered unless overwritten by more data put on to the phone. Even when deleted, the data is still there until overwritten or fully deleted externally from another device. Anything that stores data works like this.
A strong enough magnet could completely erase it too, but at that point nothing could really be recovered from the phone anyway.
Or the picture contains picture evidence of their murderer/rapists
I think she may have also been trying to take a picture of the stick (in photo 510), but accidentally made it unrecognizable with motion blur or something else
Had the police decided to do their job and take action at the beginning instead of being lazy and not taking it seriously and fobbing it off, those two girls could have been located and saved.
At least one of them anyway. I think the red head bit the dust early on, but the lanky girl lived for at least 10 more days.
@@reesedaniel5835 what gave you that idea
Maybe
@@reesedaniel5835 i agree reese it was an unfortunate accident the bodies were eaten by animals that is why just small pieces left or killed n hacked up n eaten by still believable n alive canibals living in them types of jungle but i would go with the latter
they were paid off
Reminds me of Jesse Galganov, the 23 year old Canadian who disappeared in 2017 while hiking the Andes in Peru. Without a guide. His family has spent over a million dollars searching for him, but his body has never been found.
I don't want to blame the victims, but I think people often underestimate the difficulty of the terrain and the potential security risks, and overestimate their ability to navigate without a guide.
The best presentation so far, like that you pause in between, makes it less stressfull to listen to. Way to many are babling without a break, sounds like they are having a nervous breakdown. Foul play for sure, and absolutely could be the young boy who murdered the other girl. Why suddely lots of pictures on the 8th, after weeks a clean and dry backpack appears , deleted photo impossible to recover etc, too many strange things to just be an accident..