We have big overhangs and high winds, so I’m kinda glad we got our metal roof installed on top of our existing asphalt shingles. Extra sound deadening and extra weight are kinda nice. The roofing company did install purlings first then metal.
I just installed a standing seam over shingles. I inspected the osb sheathing from the attic with a flashlight and it looked good. We used 1-1/2" pan screws and they were grabbing strong. I think it will be a good roof. I'll give an update in 30 years.
Some years ago, I did exactly what you're saying not to do. However, I did not put the metal directly on the shingles. First, I installed horizontal 2X4 purlins attached down to the decking through the shingles, then spaced four feet apart, i inserted a 1" piece of foil faced styrofoam sheeting between each of the purlins. then attached the metal with 2 3/8" inch zinc SDST screws with rubber washers. Due to the steep pitch of the roof, no water penetration has ever been noticed. I was using 24g galvalume R-panels. It appears as if this roof was installed directly on the shingles, which, I agree, doesn't sound like a good idea. Oh, and the roof I covered was in good shape, no leaks known anyplace on the entire roof. Thanks. New Sub. :)
Thanks for subscribing. The method you described can work however we always recommend removing the shingles first to make sure that there are no underlying issues that get masked. Glad you project is performing well!
Plan on doing this same thing to my cabin next weekend. Hopefully it works out well. What size nails or screws did you use to attach the 2x4 to the base?
smart way to do your roof. Many people install metal roof on an existing shingles , of course with a wood frame, like what you did , in the middle. Wast time and money to remove shingles.
It’s because the metal was installed directly on top of the shingles and it needs to have a 2 x 4 or a one by four installed on top of the shingles for the metal to be screwed onto if you do not the shingles will work like a sandpaper on metal and it will wear through and you do not put the screws into plywood or OSB. They will work loose.
Warranty for most metal I've dealt with is to install a 30lb felt over shingles ....long as your ply wood isn't rotten and you flash properly it's fine .
The thing I've noticed after getting my metal roof & they did a complete teardown of all my shingles, etc. Anyways my question is & I have different opinions as of reasoning ,but I noticed that only some sheets of the metal they put down faded ,while the sheet next to it didn't and it's like that all over "looks like stripes" especially when a piece looks fine ,but the sheets of metal on each side of one are faded ,so it's not a example of it being faded in places that are exposed to more sun or anything in a pattern from nature ,but rather a difference in some individual sheets and others are fine. Only answer that makes sense is they must of been different coatings even tho they all match in color? I know that they are all going to fade in time some what ,but mine is obviously different types of coating. Oh & for others info. I've heard whirly bird venting isn't recommended for metal roofs! Idk They installed B vents on mine and that seemed to be a better option for vrnting metal roofs ,another thing I'm always surprised by is when I see a metal roof w a satellite dish bolted on top of it. Most satellite companies would not allow their employees to install a satellite like dish. Obviously more common before fiber & streaming become the norm. Dish would instruct all employees to never bolt anything on a metal roof ,but rather have them mount it to a pole due to them being liable for leaks. I'm sure some employees who realized the customer didn't know figured they could get away w not having to dig a whole & having to concrete a pole in the ground by putting a few screws through your metal roof? I've only heard of problems when they don't tear off shingles and they should replace wood if needed. I would demand a company to do a complete teardown of shingles and if you're able. Get up there and inspect the wood underneath afterwards. If they don't tear off all shingles or act like that's a problem I would have another company come out who don't mind the extra work & afterwards replacing any wood that needs replaced. Always get a 2-3 estimates! I mean one of the 3 I had come give me a estimate wanted almost double the price of the others estimates ,check reviews ,ofcourse make sure the roofing company is licensed and bounded! Just saying for those hiring a company. Why not have it done the ideal way when you're paying. If you have a fireplace chimney etc make sure they intend on installing a cricket or anywhere it's needed. From a guy that's had a metal roof that's just my opinions and a couple things I learned when I was younger working different jobs.
Roofing company did this to me. We had to get a new roof per our home insurance because of age in Florida. The metal option was cheaper. I asked if they were gonna rip all the shingles off for that price and he said yeah. The day they showed up i gave them about an hour and they had half the metal already on over the shingles. 🤦🏻♂️ i made the call to their boss and it was a $3,000 upcharge to remove the shingles. I wish they were more clear upfront, because im getting drywall cracks in my ceiling all around the house. Thats alot of freaking weight up there being an 1800 sqft house
We hear these kinds of stories all the time. Property Revolution started as a real estate company, and added roofing, siding, decks, and fences because we had a hard time finding quality contractors in Western Michigan.
The mistake was going directly on shingles. You must first frame-in horizontal furring that structural attaches to the rafters, then the decking issue becomes obsolete, because your metal is fastened to the purlins, not the decking. This also creates a breathable air gap, behind the Metal panel, which helps reduce condensation and keep your roof deck/attic cooler, because the reflectivity of Metal is greatly reduced when fastened directly to the deck, without an air gap. Certainly a poor excuse of an install here.
What if you didn't know any better and the metal roof is already installed over the shingles and likely without a barrier in between? Can there be anything done to fix it other than taking down the metal and getting it redone?
Thank you. I almost made this mistake having a guy install metal over my old roof. When I brought up the facts you presented in this video you’d think I was insulting him. I have leaks currently from hail damage and think it’s highly probable that we have deck boards that are rotten….. the roofer said that makes no difference when putting metal over the top of it. I asked about securing new material and screwing into rotten wood…..he danced around that question. I’m opting for a new shingle roof so that I know the deck is properly inspected….. and I went with a different reputable company.
You might see that I posted elsewhere that I did go over existing roof, but in your case, unless the roofer can guarantee that he's not screwing into rotten decking, that's a red flag. I was fortunate that I was able to inspect the decking from the underside and knew I didn't have anything needing replacing from that perspective. But, I totally agree, the decking and trusses must be solid no matter what kind of roof you put on.
Done right those problems wouldn't have existed either! That roof looks fine except for around the chimney and valleys. My son owns his own roofing company and has been called to inspect and or repair roofs that have been installed by the homeowner. He said he has seen roofs over 30 years ago that are still leak free. He also said that if he does find any problems it is usually from the screws that have loosened over time. He said that if the homeowner would inspect the roof every five years or so and tighten or replace those screws there would never be a leak.
I've done metal over shingles on 4 of my properties over the last 15 years. Absolutely zero issues. It must be done correctly with perlings and the existing roof needs to be in good condition. You're casting a pretty wide net due to the poor install on this project. I'll be adding metal over shingles on my next property as well once we close on it. That will also outlast any asphalt roof out there.
Ugh. This made me feel a little bit better. I am planning on doing the exact same thing. I have a disability and my finances are tight. I was a renovator for years but never did any metal roof work. I was going to go over the shingles because I don't always know when I am going to have a good day or bad day. I figured if I used 2x4's across the shingled roof as purlins and then put the metal roof on the purlins it wouldn't matter if I had to stop in between for a day or two. I have already renovated the inside of the house so I really want to make sure that this metal roof doesn't leak.
do you think that it may have leaked due to the fact that the fasteners were installed in the low spots? That's the big mistake. Guaranteed leakage. You have to put the screws in the high spots.
Really looks like the roof was in bad shape from the start and not installed properly as you pointed out along the side wall. I wouldnt put all blame on the steel or shingles. I feel both ppl were crappy installers. Ive installed steel over shingles and have had no issues but the roof was also in good shape if the roof is crap i always tell owner we have to rip off shingles and start fron scratch.
Sounds like it wasn't even half installed right so not all the metal over shingle fault. You don't just buy panels together then caulk between them. There is massive installer error here.
No. Just don’t do it. Tear-off, Do it right the 1st. time or don’t do it at all. Why isn’t the previous roofer being held negligent & therefore paying for the replacement?, is that at all a possibility?
First it's fine with peelings installed this was a metal roof over shingles install improperly like anything else it will leak and if you install that metal without peelings ontop of plywood you are also wrong 😂that made more then one mistake and metal over singles isn't one of them my Dada roof was over 20 years old when we went up amd replaced all the screws with new ones the nylon washers are only good for 30 years that was 12 years ago still no issues
Lol this guy would have a hard time selling in my area. He's literally replacing a premium roof product with asphalt shingles. He's replacing an ok.roof with one that will need to be replaced after the first 1.5" hail. Yeah a poor insatll a poor install.but an asphalt shingles is literally the most fragile.roofing product yiu could put on a roof. 😅 he probably doesn't even know this.
Thanks for the comment. An agricultural metal panel nailed over shingles with rotten decking, that actively leaks in multiple areas is not what most would consider "Premium product". West Michigan is not typically a hail impacted area like southern parts of the country but even if it is hit by 1 1/2" hail, the ag panel is going to dent, which causes fractures to the metal. We each are responsible to educate and take care of our customers to the best of our abilities, so that is what we are doing here. A metal roof, correctly installed, is going to be superior to asphalt shingles, however we so often see them installed incorrectly and are trying to bring awareness to the issue.
We have big overhangs and high winds, so I’m kinda glad we got our metal roof installed on top of our existing asphalt shingles. Extra sound deadening and extra weight are kinda nice. The roofing company did install purlings first then metal.
The perlins do help with some of the concerns mentioned in this video
Great insight!
Thank you!
I just installed a standing seam over shingles. I inspected the osb sheathing from the attic with a flashlight and it looked good. We used 1-1/2" pan screws and they were grabbing strong. I think it will be a good roof. I'll give an update in 30 years.
Sounds like a plan. Hope your roof serves you well!
Some years ago, I did exactly what you're saying not to do. However, I did not put the metal directly on the shingles. First, I installed horizontal 2X4 purlins attached down to the decking through the shingles, then spaced four feet apart, i inserted a 1" piece of foil faced styrofoam sheeting between each of the purlins. then attached the metal with 2 3/8" inch zinc SDST screws with rubber washers. Due to the steep pitch of the roof, no water penetration has ever been noticed. I was using 24g galvalume R-panels. It appears as if this roof was installed directly on the shingles, which, I agree, doesn't sound like a good idea. Oh, and the roof I covered was in good shape, no leaks known anyplace on the entire roof. Thanks. New Sub. :)
Thanks for subscribing. The method you described can work however we always recommend removing the shingles first to make sure that there are no underlying issues that get masked. Glad you project is performing well!
Plan on doing this same thing to my cabin next weekend. Hopefully it works out well. What size nails or screws did you use to attach the 2x4 to the base?
smart way to do your roof. Many people install metal roof on an existing shingles , of course with a wood frame, like what you did , in the middle. Wast time and money to remove shingles.
@@propertyrevolutionllc7346 Back peddling now?
It’s because the metal was installed directly on top of the shingles and it needs to have a 2 x 4 or a one by four installed on top of the shingles for the metal to be screwed onto if you do not the shingles will work like a sandpaper on metal and it will wear through and you do not put the screws into plywood or OSB. They will work loose.
Thanks for the tips!
Bull shit take a roof off after 10 yrs metal still looks good .sorry but you were miss informed.
@@SteveBoxdorfer agree with you.
Warranty for most metal I've dealt with is to install a 30lb felt over shingles ....long as your ply wood isn't rotten and you flash properly it's fine .
Thankfully someone with some sense already corrected this guy!
I had a contractor tell me that samething. Wanted to leave my shingles on and then charger 14k to install. I told that man to get out my yard. 😂
That was a good call on your part
The thing I've noticed after getting my metal roof & they did a complete teardown of all my shingles, etc. Anyways my question is & I have different opinions as of reasoning ,but I noticed that only some sheets of the metal they put down faded ,while the sheet next to it didn't and it's like that all over "looks like stripes" especially when a piece looks fine ,but the sheets of metal on each side of one are faded ,so it's not a example of it being faded in places that are exposed to more sun or anything in a pattern from nature ,but rather a difference in some individual sheets and others are fine. Only answer that makes sense is they must of been different coatings even tho they all match in color? I know that they are all going to fade in time some what ,but mine is obviously different types of coating. Oh & for others info. I've heard whirly bird venting isn't recommended for metal roofs! Idk They installed B vents on mine and that seemed to be a better option for vrnting metal roofs ,another thing I'm always surprised by is when I see a metal roof w a satellite dish bolted on top of it. Most satellite companies would not allow their employees to install a satellite like dish. Obviously more common before fiber & streaming become the norm. Dish would instruct all employees to never bolt anything on a metal roof ,but rather have them mount it to a pole due to them being liable for leaks. I'm sure some employees who realized the customer didn't know figured they could get away w not having to dig a whole & having to concrete a pole in the ground by putting a few screws through your metal roof? I've only heard of problems when they don't tear off shingles and they should replace wood if needed. I would demand a company to do a complete teardown of shingles and if you're able. Get up there and inspect the wood underneath afterwards. If they don't tear off all shingles or act like that's a problem I would have another company come out who don't mind the extra work & afterwards replacing any wood that needs replaced. Always get a 2-3 estimates! I mean one of the 3 I had come give me a estimate wanted almost double the price of the others estimates ,check reviews ,ofcourse make sure the roofing company is licensed and bounded! Just saying for those hiring a company. Why not have it done the ideal way when you're paying. If you have a fireplace chimney etc make sure they intend on installing a cricket or anywhere it's needed. From a guy that's had a metal roof that's just my opinions and a couple things I learned when I was younger working different jobs.
Roofing company did this to me. We had to get a new roof per our home insurance because of age in Florida. The metal option was cheaper. I asked if they were gonna rip all the shingles off for that price and he said yeah. The day they showed up i gave them about an hour and they had half the metal already on over the shingles. 🤦🏻♂️ i made the call to their boss and it was a $3,000 upcharge to remove the shingles. I wish they were more clear upfront, because im getting drywall cracks in my ceiling all around the house. Thats alot of freaking weight up there being an 1800 sqft house
We hear these kinds of stories all the time. Property Revolution started as a real estate company, and added roofing, siding, decks, and fences because we had a hard time finding quality contractors in Western Michigan.
The mistake was going directly on shingles.
You must first frame-in horizontal furring that structural attaches to the rafters, then the decking issue becomes obsolete, because your metal is fastened to the purlins, not the decking.
This also creates a breathable air gap, behind the Metal panel, which helps reduce condensation and keep your roof deck/attic cooler, because the reflectivity of Metal is greatly reduced when fastened directly to the deck, without an air gap.
Certainly a poor excuse of an install here.
The biggest issue is that there was rotted decking that became covered up and became a bigger issue later on
What if you didn't know any better and the metal roof is already installed over the shingles and likely without a barrier in between? Can there be anything done to fix it other than taking down the metal and getting it redone?
Thank you. I almost made this mistake having a guy install metal over my old roof. When I brought up the facts you presented in this video you’d think I was insulting him. I have leaks currently from hail damage and think it’s highly probable that we have deck boards that are rotten….. the roofer said that makes no difference when putting metal over the top of it. I asked about securing new material and screwing into rotten wood…..he danced around that question. I’m opting for a new shingle roof so that I know the deck is properly inspected….. and I went with a different reputable company.
You might see that I posted elsewhere that I did go over existing roof, but in your case, unless the roofer can guarantee that he's not screwing into rotten decking, that's a red flag. I was fortunate that I was able to inspect the decking from the underside and knew I didn't have anything needing replacing from that perspective. But, I totally agree, the decking and trusses must be solid no matter what kind of roof you put on.
Done right those problems wouldn't have existed either! That roof looks fine except for around the chimney and valleys. My son owns his own roofing company and has been called to inspect and or repair roofs that have been installed by the homeowner. He said he has seen roofs over 30 years ago that are still leak free. He also said that if he does find any problems it is usually from the screws that have loosened over time. He said that if the homeowner would inspect the roof every five years or so and tighten or replace those screws there would never be a leak.
Did they install purlins first or right on top of the old shingles?
On top of old shingles.
I've done metal over shingles on 4 of my properties over the last 15 years. Absolutely zero issues. It must be done correctly with perlings and the existing roof needs to be in good condition. You're casting a pretty wide net due to the poor install on this project.
I'll be adding metal over shingles on my next property as well once we close on it. That will also outlast any asphalt roof out there.
Ugh. This made me feel a little bit better. I am planning on doing the exact same thing. I have a disability and my finances are tight. I was a renovator for years but never did any metal roof work. I was going to go over the shingles because I don't always know when I am going to have a good day or bad day. I figured if I used 2x4's across the shingled roof as purlins and then put the metal roof on the purlins it wouldn't matter if I had to stop in between for a day or two. I have already renovated the inside of the house so I really want to make sure that this metal roof doesn't leak.
Thank you. I am about to do the same and purlins are the key.
Good to know thank you
do you think that it may have leaked due to the fact that the fasteners were installed in the low spots? That's the big mistake. Guaranteed leakage. You have to put the screws in the high spots.
That may have helped some. The bigger issue was screws not being anchored into anything solid so they were sitting loose
Really looks like the roof was in bad shape from the start and not installed properly as you pointed out along the side wall. I wouldnt put all blame on the steel or shingles. I feel both ppl were crappy installers. Ive installed steel over shingles and have had no issues but the roof was also in good shape if the roof is crap i always tell owner we have to rip off shingles and start fron scratch.
For sure. There were definitely a number of issues to begin with that just got covered up.
@propertyrevolutionllc7346 true that. Sure gives roofers a bad name
I grew up in otsego, such a shithole, probably installed by methheads.
Of course it’s going to go wrong screwing onto shingles. Install purlins first and it will be fine.
Perlins probably would have been an improvement from what they did here
Sounds like it wasn't even half installed right so not all the metal over shingle fault. You don't just buy panels together then caulk between them. There is massive installer error here.
For sure. It was quite poor
they install 1x4 slats on the shingles for the metal to be fastened to..this guy knows not too much
Good advice my guy! I hate seeing metal over shingles just lazy business practices.
I agree. Thanks for the comment!
Metal roofing is designed to be fixed through the ridges not in the valleys .
That depends on the manufacturer but that’s not how it’s done in most states. We screw into the flats and never had an issue.
Thats right, many manufacturer installation instructions state that the screws are to be installed in the flat area
In entire world debate obout that is still going. But I agree with you
No. Just don’t do it. Tear-off, Do it right the 1st. time or don’t do it at all.
Why isn’t the previous roofer being held negligent & therefore paying for the replacement?, is that at all a possibility?
About four years had lapsed and the property had changed hands. So not likely a possibility at this point
First it's fine with peelings installed this was a metal roof over shingles install improperly like anything else it will leak and if you install that metal without peelings ontop of plywood you are also wrong 😂that made more then one mistake and metal over singles isn't one of them my Dada roof was over 20 years old when we went up amd replaced all the screws with new ones the nylon washers are only good for 30 years that was 12 years ago still no issues
Lol this guy would have a hard time selling in my area. He's literally replacing a premium roof product with asphalt shingles. He's replacing an ok.roof with one that will need to be replaced after the first 1.5" hail. Yeah a poor insatll a poor install.but an asphalt shingles is literally the most fragile.roofing product yiu could put on a roof. 😅 he probably doesn't even know this.
Thanks for the comment. An agricultural metal panel nailed over shingles with rotten decking, that actively leaks in multiple areas is not what most would consider "Premium product". West Michigan is not typically a hail impacted area like southern parts of the country but even if it is hit by 1 1/2" hail, the ag panel is going to dent, which causes fractures to the metal.
We each are responsible to educate and take care of our customers to the best of our abilities, so that is what we are doing here.
A metal roof, correctly installed, is going to be superior to asphalt shingles, however we so often see them installed incorrectly and are trying to bring awareness to the issue.