Pat shut down his own argument when he said he sucked at his job. He refuses to believe that perfection isn't obtainable and puts his made-up standards on everyone but himself. He will never win that argument because his existence defeats his claims.
I feel it's more like his mind's eye has the perfect screen with 4k resolution, only there's no stereo or speaker of any kind and it's just Pat reading all the subtitles out loud to himself as characters speak
Pat has all the memory scripts in the world but can only process them through a midi player composed of a soundboard of every noise he's ever made. Incredible.
Could it be exposure to a live instrument or actually playing it that gives us a more accute sense of memory realated to it? Because yes, I can immitate a guitar in a song with my mouth, I'll try to mimic the distorsion, slides and effects because of my memory and imagination. Pat says he cant...
@@El_Andru I dunno if this is it, it's not about making a good imitation of a guitar sound with one's IRL voice, it's about being able to imagine the guitar sound or not. Pat can't, but I'm currently thinking of the Hotel California solo and it's sick as hell
He's literally describing aphantasia for sound. An artist with aphantasia remembers what an apple looks like.They know the shape to draw and colors to use. They understand lighting principles to shade it. But there is no picture in the mind to go with it, just instructions. Just like you can know the notes and instruments, their qualities, etc. But no sound plays. Same for touch taste and smell. A google search for it brings up a bunch of people that experience this the way Pat does.
@@gameb9oy This isn't unique, I'm the exact same way. Songs, memories, hell even some regular sounds, they play in my voice. It might be a very different version of my voice, like if I were to think of Thriller my mind-voice is reaching notes I physically cannot, but it is still my voice. So if I'm thinking of a friend talking, or my girlfriend, or my mother, etc, it's my voice mentally made to sound like them.
It's not really craziness though, it's a neurological trait not a mood or behavioral disorder. It's not narcissism or schizophrenia, it's likely a form of anauralia. Like aphantasia, but for processing auditory information.
Pat saying, "It's the minds eye, you see things with it, it's not the mind's ear" makes me wonder how much of this is just Pat being obstinate about semantics, Pat legitimately being unable to hear things he remembers because of his own preconceived notions/self made 'rules' for his brain, and how much is legitimate aphantasia or something like that. Fascinating.
Y'kno, I've put some thought to it and I'm kinda with Pat on this one actually. I do have auditory hallucinations where I legitimately hear things, I do not know how normal that is, so that's something to keep in mind going forward on this, but I can tell when I 'hear' something in my head and I just remember the sounds or visualize it. Like, for example, I frequently hear "Hey!" or my name being shouted by my Mom, friends, family, etc. I can really hear it, like. It's loud, and omnidirectional, but I can hear it, with my ears. The only hint it's not real is that it's not directional. It comes from everywhere. Even when I'm laying down, and clearly the ear should be muffled against a pillow for instance. The worrying hallucinations I hear are things like, phone alarms/ring tones, door knocks, car brakes screeching, etc which... hard to tell sometimes if they're fake. But, I also, can recall a song, play it back, listen to it in my minds eye, Pat, an expression, not a literal eye but a way to explain the feeling of seeing or experiencing things in your head, like I can rotate or look at an object in my mind, I can visualize it. I can also visualize songs, they have a beat, instruments, I can even recall the quality of the sound if it was a live performance vs a recording etc, play it back as best my memory recalls or enables. But, it never 'sounds' like it's coming from my environment, it's clearly in my head. Not a hallucination, but a fabrication of my mind's eye. I can sometimes force it to sound louder and like I'm hearing it, but very rarely and usually with things like "Hey!" "Hello!" "How are you?" (my name) and "honey!" etc being an auditory hallucination, not just heard in my head through visualization. Also, the music/audio/visual memory isn't perfect, it's a playback, but what makes think, or I guess makes me wonder, is if Pat's just making a semantic argument or legitimately has a different psychological experience in the distinction between the visualization and lack of visualization of sound. Like, from what he describes, Pat doesn't have auditory hallucinations, but he can visualize spaces, objects, etc. Can remember the substance of a sound (it's lyrics, the instrumentation, the beat, the order it is played), but cannot visualize or 'hear' the music compiled together, its tone, the qualities of the voice, though he admitted the opposite, kinda? Just the nature of describing experiences with language being what it is I'm not gonna dwell on that. It's this type of 'hearing' in the mind that is my main question. Can Pat not even remember the sound, but just the descriptive/adjective qualities of a song? The component parts but not the whole. That to me really sounds like a kind of Aphantasia, albeit, I'm no psychologist and Pat is almost certainly more studied and obviously experienced personally with the difference in his own head. Not really the type of thing that needs to be 'proved' or whatever, but may be interesting food for thought if it's some kind of legitimate perspective difference, a self imposed restriction through understanding/language on the subject, or just a semantic difference between 'hearing' and 'remembering' sound. Being able to remember and listen back to something is hearing it within the minds eye imo, but could it just be Pat has a bad memory or legitimately can't reconstruct a song without using his own voice? Especially the detail that Pat has to recreate the sounds with his own voice is strange to me, like, yes the voice is more natural for speaking, everyone tends to have a much clearer idea of how they sound because they hear that the most throughout life, I can even talk to myself with it and it's louder than my background brain sounds, I can even give myself auditory hallucinations of my own voice, not just visualizing my own voice, but inducing and really hearing myself talking from outside my head. But, isn't creating your own voice within your head just visualizing the sound at the end of the day? Since it's not actually spoken of course, that's a kind of visualization. Since things rarely are absolutes in anything with the human experience I wonder if Pat's like... 2 steps from total Aphantasia with sound, or something like that, if that's a thing. I doubt he'll ever see this, or Woolie for that matter, but just wanna say I don't think armchair psychology is particularly helpful for the person on the receiving end especially from thousands of strangers who have a very slim view of you to go off of, and I really don't mean to degrade or downplay your experiences in any way Pat. If anything, I think its great, your brain and the experiences you have differ from others and that has played a part in bringing you to where you are now. I think there's a lot of poetic beauty in that. That said, this fuckin essay above is more selfish and just some guy working out their thoughts in public than any criticism or commentary on you as a person or your experiences, at least, I intended it to be so, but if I messed up and this all upset or y'kno, wasted your time I would like to apologize in a meaningful way, feel free to blow me up on stream. So, if you did read all that potential nonsense, thank y'all for taking the time to do so, whoever it was reading this 6am sleepless tangent, I hope it helped or sparks some thoughts, and Woolie, Pat, I love y'all's content. Thanks again for your time and doing what you do. The videos are great for helping wrangle the brain worms while drawing.
@@guyrart The brain is fascinating, truly. Like, there's entire fields of philosophy dedicated to questions like this. I think that a lot of it comes from the fact that its hard to truly understand/replicate another's cognition. We assume that "everyone thinks the same way as me", when that isn't the case at all.
Sometimes I think about a moment in Disco Elysium. You get the chance to talk to Kim about your inner debates with your skills, the facets of yourself. Interestingly, he's a little thrown by how you're framing things, but gets it. You can be curious about if he has a similar internal debate, and he says no. Then, you can ponder about this. You can watch him use his notebook, and realize that while he has no internal monologue like yours, he's using his notebook the same way.
I've noticed that after listening to someone talk for a long time I start to think and read things in their voice, but I've never heard of anything like this. Pat is truly a unique specimen.
It's discussions like this that make me wonder if one day Woolie is going to reveal that this whole TH-cam channel was just an experiment and Pat is patient #67.
Jokes aside, I really love when people have these conversations. It's interesting to see how we're all wired differently and experience things differently.
i've been watching these guys for probably over a decade by now, yet its only till i heard this conversation on the podcast while at work that i finally truly understood patrick boivin
I'd like to think that if you were to Somnium Files dive into Pat's brain it would be not only every sound his voice, but also every person being him in different wigs and every thing also being some kind of Elden Ring abomination version of him in a shape that somewhat resembles the thing.
The best part about this is how invested into this craziness Woolie is. His reactions had me rolling! Also yeah, when I think about a song I just hear the actual singer voice. And I tried to imagine my own voice singing the song and it doesnt work, which is something interesting I never noticed.
It seems Pat has Aphantasia, a lot of the questions Woolie brings up are commonly asked. It's essentially image free thinking it might derive from autism
I don't even understand what he's trying to say. He's saying he can "remember" how Micheal Jackson sounds when singing thriller, but if he remembers the sound, how else would he do it other than playing it back in his head?
@@NeoBoneGirl what i think he means is that if he memorize a song strongly, he can think about how the song sounds in the back of his mind, but if he wants to reply the melody and the lyrics at the top of his mind, he is only able to do it like if he does it in person by himself. My theory is that pat train his brain to do this by accident since he was a child. However its very strange that someone that studied a carrer on psychology, dont have any notion of the common ways the memory works. I dont know if i believe pat forgot about this or not at some point.
Pat was seriously about to launch into a ninja-esque "why don't they just get a home run every time" rant at the end before he caught himself, wasn't he?
So... whenever Pat thinks back on LPs he did with Woolie, his memory is of himself talking to a Woolie who is speaking with Pat's own voice doing a bad impression of Woolie speaking?
i never really thought hard about whether my memories of someones voice are accurate until now, when i remember my bf's voice i get tingles so I think mine are accurate enough.
I know this isn't what Pat was implying but I can't help but imagine in Pat's head that all of his memories with other people are just of him dressed up as those people doing an imitation of them. Like if he's remembering back to conversation he had with Paige it's just him with a red wig on and two balloons under his shirt going "oh my gawd Patrickuhh!"
Woolies finally finding out that neurodivergent brains hit different. While I don't have it as bad as Pat, I have something incredibly similar. I don't have the same issue with music, I tend to hear a facsimile of the music, a mixture of what my idea of the music is and the actual music. When it comes to actual memories, that's when it gets weird. Most of the time I don't remember anything at all, or if I do make a solid memory, it's more like the idea of what happened as opposed to a solid event. Like, I know this happened, but I couldn't tell you the exact circumstances in which is occurred. Unless it's a trauma memory, then I never forget that shit. And boy do I relate to that dream stuff too. It's not quite a check list, but there certainly are no words in my dreams either. But what is wild is finding out that normal people can just hear other people in their head. Like, wtf?????? You can recall a conversation and the other voice is the other person!!!!??? That's just wild.
We all really do hit different. I'm also ND, and my internal experiences can be vivid enough the they overpower my current living experience. A key part of how i've managed to train martial arts for two decades is that enjoy the outcome of the training i imagine in my mind so much, it drowns out any sort of tedium or fatigue.
Needing five minutes of clarification on what Pat is saying before going 'is this a bit?' is peak Woolie. He wants to make absolutely sure he's not misunderstanding so he can call Pat insane without messing up. However, Pat is /also/ being insane by needing to clarify in complete and utter honesty that he draws a distinction between remembering and 'hearing' things in his brain. This conversation alone was one of the best CSB things ever.
Like, I think I get what Pat's saying, even if I don't experience things like he's describing; Pat's just abysmal at explaining it, as usual. I think it's a mix of different perspectives as well as some kind of difference between our internal voices. He's experiencing the act of remembering and hearing as separate actions, where as we can experience both actions in the same way, so we don't make the distinction between them. In Pat's world, remembering a song would be like having the sheet music; you're looking at the lyrics, you know the time signature, you can see where a solo is, etc. Hearing the song is the act of putting sound to that sheet music, but, for some reason, Pat can only apply sounds that he himself can make, like he's trying to construct a song our of a soundboard; he doesn't have the real instruments, so he has to make do with tweaking the sounds he _does_ have. You and I know what the instruments sound like, and can reproduce it, but he can't. I think the reason he's drawing the distinction is because he can't recreate it, and as such has conditioned himself to just stop trying; it sounds insane to you or me because we never conditioned ourselves to do this, since we had no reason to. He's technically correct that remembering and hearing are separate actions, it's just that the average person smooths it over into being 2 aspects of the same action. It's like the distinction between putting coins in a vending machine and buying something from the vending machine; we smoothed it over as just part of buying something, but it's technically 2 actions. It's pedantic as fuck, but when has that ever stopped Pat?
Woolie, thank you so much for uploading this, the look of sheer disbelief and horror you had on your face whilePat explained how he hears things other people said in his own voice made me laugh so so loud people 2 floors up could hear me. The audio alone on the podcast would not have done this justice.
The part that is most fascinating to me here is that Pat has a clear distinction between remembering sound and "hearing" sound in his head, with the memories somehow containing the information of how they sound but not a impression of the sound itself or something like that, some odd super neutral thing that can only exists in the mind. I would not be surprised if there are a lot of differences in how people actually think, like how Paige has described her memories as always dark (as in lack of light) while I often remember thing in 3rd person and also thanks to this conversation here I noticed that my internal voice is some indescribable neutral amalgamation but get temporarily coloured by listening to a specific voice for a while. Would be super interesting to compare how that works across many people, but probably really hard to compare in a scientific way.
I think I get what Pat's saying. Even when I try to remember stuff and play it back in my head it kinda gets filtered through my voice a bit. But he's crazy for saying all this memories in his head are all in his voice. I play back a song in my head back with relative accuracy, this very much is a Patism.
@@junaidazam12 Saying crazy shit often quite edgy in the sense that his views can be really out there sometimes and Woolie has to put him back on the rails. Not like offense, but he's want to say some crazy shit every so often usually resulting in Woolie giving him confused face.
I think this a job related issue. Since Pat's job is basically talking and reading out loud peoples messages. He became so use to hearing his own voice. That now replays of conversations are in his voice. I once used a Jeff Goldblum impression to joke around with some friends, but that impression was stuck in my head and I would do it inadvertently for an hour. I think that happed to Pat but its permanent lol.
That reminds me, but I would honestly love to see a study on what people hear in their head when they read comments or social media posts. I mostly just default to what type of profile pic they are using.
Pat's been doing this job since he was, what, in his 20s? But he explains his way of thought as though it has always been this way since his birth. I don't think his job has any effect on this at all.
Remembering sounds being heard is like a midi sound font. Most of us can "download" more than one sound font into our brains. Pat is stuck with only his "own voice" as his sole sound font. now the question is: was Pat like this his entire life, or did he only become this way after he slipped on ice and hit his back of his head on a bus.
if you google "can you hear music in your head?" there's a good Reddit post with a lot of answers similar to Pat's. I imagine that the better your detection of pitch and orchestration/timbre are, the easier it is to audiate music after hearing it. There are certainly exceptions ofc, but I'd be super interested in Pat doing some musical ear-training and seeing if his ability to audiate songs improves 🤫
Not gonna lie, after hearing this section, my mind immediately circled back to earlier in the podcast and went "Yeah, I think people should play Wo Long themselves instead of listening to Pat."
Stuff like this and not being able to mentally picture things is so unbelievable to me that im convinced that you could be taught to be able to do it if you cant.
Finally! I don't feel so crazy. I have a pretty strong inner monologue that also defaults to me acting out the parts for other people and music. The difference is, I can put in the effort to switch it back to the actual speaker's normal voice. It just takes a pretty heavy conscious, continuous effort, or it'll switch back to default mode.
This is definitely not crazy. Calling it a transcript feels really accurate, actually. I wonder if all the people calling Pat crazy actually don't do this, or if they do and just don't realize it. Or perhaps there some ratio.
@@EmeraldLance some people think they remember events exactly as they happened. Woolie is talking about being able to perfectly recall instruments in any song he has committed to memory.
@@EmeraldLance I mean if it's something really long and dry yeah I might recall it in my voice like I'm reading text. Then again if it's anything remotely engaging there is 0% mental effort required to recall voices and sounds. I will only recall something someone's said to me in my own voice if it was so long ago or our interaction was so brief that I can no longer remember what they sounded like, or I'm intending to do so. It doesn't even need to be something I've actually heard though, I can also imagine someone saying something that I've never even heard them say and have it be reasonably accurate to their voice.
I completely understand what Pat is saying. The difference is like a relatively vague memory of it that has an inconsistent sense of time vs recalling enough to replicate it.
Not really. Time has no bearing on whether or not I can imaging Michael Jackson talking to Chester Cheetah about Avengers Endgame. I don't substitute my own voice into that scenario I simply conjure the conversation wholesale from imagination.
I might get where he's coming from. I think another way to put it is like this: when the exact sound of what someone said isn't in recent memory, you internalize the dialogue and meaning of what was said, but eventually your mind removes the exact audio that was used (to clear up space for more recent audio/visual information) and so when you look back and try to remember it you basically just read that dialogue back in your own voice. However, that bit about instruments and Zangief barking is quite a bit farther than I feel like it should go normally.
I have an opposite problem where I can remember people's voices down to their most basic inflections, but I cannot replicate what I sound like. The voice I hear in recordings sounds completely different than the voice I hear while I'm speaking -- it feels like I'm listening to two complete strangers and it totally messes with my brain.
Well yeah, your voice coming out of your vocal chords and then circling around to your ears is going to sound a bit different to you than it would be to someone else hearing you speak. I think Pat is just distinctly aware of what his own voice sounds like due to a decade of working on video game playthroughs so that may have somewhat of an impact on his psyche
Pat is 100% right, he just explained it bad. When you recall something through memory by focusing on it yes you remember it as it sounds, not its not a 1 to 1 sound. Its as accurate as your memory but even if you just experienced it, it will be slightly off in your head. However if you try to actual hear it in your head, you will find that you are actually imitating it using your own manner of noise. Often time you will even find you are slightly moving your jaw and tongue as if you were actually saying it yourself. This wont register to you unless you focus on the rendition. In both cases however you are not hearing it as if it were real which I think is what Pat was getting at before deciding to just roll with the bit. Its people who hear things as if it were actually real, like hearing an actual voice, that have a mental issue; thats the "god told me to do it" crowd. Basically its 3 levels of "hearing" something that isn't a sound.
That's the beauty of the brain. That just goes to show how much more imaginative some people are than others. I could have morgan freeman as my inner head voice for a day and make him sing songs and voice every character in my memories at will.
the best way to describe pat's brain/inner voice is that it only runs in midi. if he needs to play back a sound, song, voice in his head, he uses the sounds of his own voice to do it. the human brain is truly fascinating.
I think the half hour of them constantly trying and failing to articulate how this kind of phenomena specifically affects Pat perfectly illustrates the problem with the study asked in the question. This kind of of beautiful psychological analysis is why I tune into CastleSuperBeast.
I think I understand to a certain degree. When you replay a song, you do remember the voice. But if you suddenly start singing it mid replay, you tend to shape your voice in the form of that particular vocalist. I find that this can pull me out of that song with the sudden shift. However, I also note how much I try to mimic what I remember hearing. If my physical vocal chords could hit the notes and tone, they would. What I've come to see it as is literally me singing to myself, just without my physical limitations. Even when I remember someone's voice, if I were to mimic them in my head, then start talking, my inner voice would literally be mimicking me, mimicking them. I also connect this with a problem of talking to myself, like I need to act out the thought as well for no other reason than to hear myself critically. Like when you think something stupid, say it, then realize you said something stupid.
The really shocking thing about this isn't that Pat only has conversations in his head with his own voice. It's that when he replays a song, he hears the instruments being mimicked with his voice. Literally every sound in Pat's head, whether verbal or not, is just Pat's voice.
When I listen to music, I memorize it; once I have it completely memorized, I can play it back completely in my head- vocals, instruments, even a music video if I've seen (or imagined) one for it. I once had a girlfriend who couldn't do any of that, and could only remember lyrics... but it only took her two or three listens to completely learn those. It's like human brains aren't completely uniform, or something.
This explains how y'all can get your memory mucked up by made up things that people never said. Nearly no distinction between imagined thought or memory.
To be certain, music actually specifically is basically an MP3 player in my brain. I always am hearing music exactly as it is, if I've heard it enough.
Weirdly enough this discussion has caused me to realize that I think I'm the opposite of Pat. I can imagine the sounds of other people's voices and such no problem, but I don't know what voice my own internal monologue is in. Like I can't actually imagine what my own voice sounds like, and maybe it's due to inexperience but if I do record my voice for something and play it back, I'm always surprised by the sound of my own voice. But despite that like I said I have a very vivid mind's eye where I have no problem visualizing 3D objects and other such sounds and sensations and the like.
Pat records and plays back his own voice constantly for his job so that may have had an impact on how his audiation works. Most people like you or myself don't actually hear their voice out loud the way others hear us unless we play back a recording so I assume most people's "inner voice" doesn't even sound accurate. i.e. Pat's brain has been oversaturated by Pat
Every time Woolie thinks he's seen the full depth of the Pat's Insanity boss fight he gets walloped over the head with the next phase. This is like me accidentally standing on Sister Friede's body when I reached the Blackflame phase for the first time.
This reminds me of a clip of a vtuver discovering that they might have aphantasia by saying to her chat "Wait, how can you guys imagine an apple, just like out of nowhere?"
It's weird bc I can also synthesize what someone speaking a foreign language would sound like if they spoke English. It may not always be 100% accurate but it's close enough.
I can turn on pats "my own voice replaces other noises" but I turned it off right away due to how easy it would be to rely on that while also making it harder for me to switch back to hearing instruments. Scary
Imagine going into pat's mind palace persona 5 style. All npc's and shadows talk like pat. All sound effects are pat mimicking the sound, including footsteps. The music- It's not even music, man. It's nonsense.
I think there's two sides to this, there's the "Subconscious Play Back" and the "Conscious Mimicry". The Subconscious Play Back recreates what you listened to perfectly without you needing to focus on it. The Conscious Mimicry on the other hand has you recreate the thing you listened to, but through a filter of your own recreated sounds and your own voice.
I have an inner monologue and it is 24/7. The voice is just mine, always, never anyone else's-- Even when I'm remembering another person's voices. I know what Pat's talking about!!!!! But then I also have lucid dreams every night since forever and I don't understand how other people can't control their dreams fully (I have never had a nightmare either), so I think there's something fucked up with me. I am Autistic, if that matters.
Okay, this makes sene now. He's right in that you do talk to youself in your head, and your internal voice reciting a memory in a recreation or memory of another... and then i had to stop when i got to him saying "its me making mouth noises" when imagining a guitar. I dont understand
Fun fact! Memories aren't perfect playbacks, they're recreations of things you've seen, heard, smelled, or felt in the past. Recreations made exclusively in your own brain, separate from the reality that inspired them. I feel like Pat is just hyper aware of something that is the case for everyone, but most simply refuse to admit or acknowledge it. Your brain is not actually creating auditory stimulation of a guitar, it's just mimicking the feeling you got when you heard the guitar.
Woolie missed out on an opportunity to ask Pat if he visualizes conversations between Pat and Woolie as Pat and Pat in Blackface
Man this explains so much of why pat hates things that use your imagination. He can only imagine himself talking.
Jesus Christ that's the harshest burn I've ever read.
I need to rewatch the old Two Friends Play stuff with this new context in mind.
It's true, how can you like music if you only hear your own voice in your head
@@YetiCoolBrother Singing badly.
@@YetiCoolBrother Fire lyrics are always fire no matter who sings them
Pat been streaming for so long even his thoughts avoid copyright
Gotta avoid those psychic lawyers.
@@TAMAMO-VIRUS He's 30 years ahead of the rest.
I'm ded.
This comment is so underrated.
I like to think if you asked Pat to picture an apple in his head he would instead imagine himself in a giant apple costume.
And the apple costume is just another, more flexible version of himself wrapped around the first one and pretending to be an apple.
@@MattManDX1 PATFULL MODE
"Being good at your job means perfection " ladies and gentlemen I present to you the mind goblins origin point
I'm just glad he caught himself before the foot entered his mouth
Pat shut down his own argument when he said he sucked at his job. He refuses to believe that perfection isn't obtainable and puts his made-up standards on everyone but himself. He will never win that argument because his existence defeats his claims.
Pats brain TV has no screen and its just his two hands sock puppeting his memories.
Oops all Pats
This is the perfect summary
I feel it's more like his mind's eye has the perfect screen with 4k resolution, only there's no stereo or speaker of any kind and it's just Pat reading all the subtitles out loud to himself as characters speak
"Just do it right every time" says the guy who has been so wrong so often that his fans joke about it being a literal superpower
Pat has all the memory scripts in the world but can only process them through a midi player composed of a soundboard of every noise he's ever made. Incredible.
Imagine a full orchestra playing a song but it's all tubas.
@@Wiffernubbin that one resident evil song
Pat is lying for attention though. He always does.
Is pat a reverse Kenku? (From d&d)
HONK! Oink. That's purple!!
"i'm not a guitar so how can i make a guitar noise in my mind" actually made my brain break. i could feel my brain cracking when pat said that
Could it be exposure to a live instrument or actually playing it that gives us a more accute sense of memory realated to it?
Because yes, I can immitate a guitar in a song with my mouth, I'll try to mimic the distorsion, slides and effects because of my memory and imagination. Pat says he cant...
@@El_Andru I dunno if this is it, it's not about making a good imitation of a guitar sound with one's IRL voice, it's about being able to imagine the guitar sound or not. Pat can't, but I'm currently thinking of the Hotel California solo and it's sick as hell
He's literally describing aphantasia for sound. An artist with aphantasia remembers what an apple looks like.They know the shape to draw and colors to use. They understand lighting principles to shade it. But there is no picture in the mind to go with it, just instructions.
Just like you can know the notes and instruments, their qualities, etc. But no sound plays. Same for touch taste and smell.
A google search for it brings up a bunch of people that experience this the way Pat does.
I'm just enjoying Woolies increasingly confused facial expressions
I started laughing so hard watching him try to process everything
Somewhere in his head there's a version of W.A.P sung by pat.
I just spit out my drink
C'mon!!!
C'mon!!!
LOLLLLLLL that is amazing
Ben Shapiro is shook
"the inner machinations of my mind are an enigma'
-pat imitating patrick's voice
Pat was getting angry that Woolie was taking most of the insane spotlight and decided to take back his crazy throne.
This is a unique crazy thing, as I think now that pat is aware of the fact, he kinda gets that’s it’s crazy.
@@gameb9oy it's not though
@@gameb9oy This isn't unique, I'm the exact same way. Songs, memories, hell even some regular sounds, they play in my voice. It might be a very different version of my voice, like if I were to think of Thriller my mind-voice is reaching notes I physically cannot, but it is still my voice. So if I'm thinking of a friend talking, or my girlfriend, or my mother, etc, it's my voice mentally made to sound like them.
It's not really craziness though, it's a neurological trait not a mood or behavioral disorder. It's not narcissism or schizophrenia, it's likely a form of anauralia. Like aphantasia, but for processing auditory information.
@@mortified0 Just because you have the same thing, doesn't make it less unique. Congrats on being unique too.
"I'm not a guitar, so how can I make a guitar noise in my mind?" That's something you don't hear everyday.
Pat saying, "It's the minds eye, you see things with it, it's not the mind's ear" makes me wonder how much of this is just Pat being obstinate about semantics, Pat legitimately being unable to hear things he remembers because of his own preconceived notions/self made 'rules' for his brain, and how much is legitimate aphantasia or something like that.
Fascinating.
Y'kno, I've put some thought to it and I'm kinda with Pat on this one actually. I do have auditory hallucinations where I legitimately hear things, I do not know how normal that is, so that's something to keep in mind going forward on this, but I can tell when I 'hear' something in my head and I just remember the sounds or visualize it.
Like, for example,
I frequently hear "Hey!" or my name being shouted by my Mom, friends, family, etc. I can really hear it, like. It's loud, and omnidirectional, but I can hear it, with my ears. The only hint it's not real is that it's not directional. It comes from everywhere. Even when I'm laying down, and clearly the ear should be muffled against a pillow for instance. The worrying hallucinations I hear are things like, phone alarms/ring tones, door knocks, car brakes screeching, etc which... hard to tell sometimes if they're fake.
But,
I also, can recall a song, play it back, listen to it in my minds eye, Pat, an expression, not a literal eye but a way to explain the feeling of seeing or experiencing things in your head, like I can rotate or look at an object in my mind, I can visualize it. I can also visualize songs, they have a beat, instruments, I can even recall the quality of the sound if it was a live performance vs a recording etc, play it back as best my memory recalls or enables. But, it never 'sounds' like it's coming from my environment, it's clearly in my head. Not a hallucination, but a fabrication of my mind's eye.
I can sometimes force it to sound louder and like I'm hearing it, but very rarely and usually with things like "Hey!" "Hello!" "How are you?" (my name) and "honey!" etc being an auditory hallucination, not just heard in my head through visualization. Also, the music/audio/visual memory isn't perfect, it's a playback, but what makes think, or I guess makes me wonder, is if Pat's just making a semantic argument or legitimately has a different psychological experience in the distinction between the visualization and lack of visualization of sound.
Like, from what he describes, Pat doesn't have auditory hallucinations, but he can visualize spaces, objects, etc. Can remember the substance of a sound (it's lyrics, the instrumentation, the beat, the order it is played), but cannot visualize or 'hear' the music compiled together, its tone, the qualities of the voice, though he admitted the opposite, kinda? Just the nature of describing experiences with language being what it is I'm not gonna dwell on that. It's this type of 'hearing' in the mind that is my main question. Can Pat not even remember the sound, but just the descriptive/adjective qualities of a song? The component parts but not the whole. That to me really sounds like a kind of Aphantasia, albeit, I'm no psychologist and Pat is almost certainly more studied and obviously experienced personally with the difference in his own head.
Not really the type of thing that needs to be 'proved' or whatever, but may be interesting food for thought if it's some kind of legitimate perspective difference, a self imposed restriction through understanding/language on the subject, or just a semantic difference between 'hearing' and 'remembering' sound. Being able to remember and listen back to something is hearing it within the minds eye imo, but could it just be Pat has a bad memory or legitimately can't reconstruct a song without using his own voice?
Especially the detail that Pat has to recreate the sounds with his own voice is strange to me, like, yes the voice is more natural for speaking, everyone tends to have a much clearer idea of how they sound because they hear that the most throughout life, I can even talk to myself with it and it's louder than my background brain sounds, I can even give myself auditory hallucinations of my own voice, not just visualizing my own voice, but inducing and really hearing myself talking from outside my head. But, isn't creating your own voice within your head just visualizing the sound at the end of the day? Since it's not actually spoken of course, that's a kind of visualization. Since things rarely are absolutes in anything with the human experience I wonder if Pat's like... 2 steps from total Aphantasia with sound, or something like that, if that's a thing.
I doubt he'll ever see this, or Woolie for that matter, but just wanna say I don't think armchair psychology is particularly helpful for the person on the receiving end especially from thousands of strangers who have a very slim view of you to go off of, and I really don't mean to degrade or downplay your experiences in any way Pat. If anything, I think its great, your brain and the experiences you have differ from others and that has played a part in bringing you to where you are now. I think there's a lot of poetic beauty in that. That said, this fuckin essay above is more selfish and just some guy working out their thoughts in public than any criticism or commentary on you as a person or your experiences, at least, I intended it to be so, but if I messed up and this all upset or y'kno, wasted your time I would like to apologize in a meaningful way, feel free to blow me up on stream.
So, if you did read all that potential nonsense, thank y'all for taking the time to do so, whoever it was reading this 6am sleepless tangent, I hope it helped or sparks some thoughts, and Woolie, Pat, I love y'all's content. Thanks again for your time and doing what you do. The videos are great for helping wrangle the brain worms while drawing.
@@guyrart The brain is fascinating, truly. Like, there's entire fields of philosophy dedicated to questions like this. I think that a lot of it comes from the fact that its hard to truly understand/replicate another's cognition. We assume that "everyone thinks the same way as me", when that isn't the case at all.
Sometimes I think about a moment in Disco Elysium. You get the chance to talk to Kim about your inner debates with your skills, the facets of yourself. Interestingly, he's a little thrown by how you're framing things, but gets it. You can be curious about if he has a similar internal debate, and he says no. Then, you can ponder about this. You can watch him use his notebook, and realize that while he has no internal monologue like yours, he's using his notebook the same way.
Just remember, that when Pat thinks back on Disco Elysium he hears himself saying everything. Yes EVERYTHING
@@cyberninjazero5659 Only if he is doing a recall of the audio.
Otherwise its just abstract words/meanings.
Every day we unravel the mystery of the man named Pat just a little bit more.
But then we simultaneously encounter new questions, so it all evens out in the end.
The "man" named Pat
Today we learned that Pat's Inland Empire is ZERO.
Pat's mind is a never-ending Rakugo performance. In all honesty tho this is really interesting stuff
Just like there was a segment named Woolie
This segment should have been named Pat
That was the first mind goblins vid
A title that definitive has to be used on a clip that's at LEAST an hour's worth of mind goblins.
An eight part series narrated by Ken Burns
The Vader comics was Pat
Just realized this means that Pat's mind goblins are just even smaller Pats
These men have known each other for 2 decades, and they're still learning about each other.
That's the best part
The best relationships are the ones that are always evolving
I've noticed that after listening to someone talk for a long time I start to think and read things in their voice, but I've never heard of anything like this. Pat is truly a unique specimen.
I have a British friend I VC with so much that I started saying innit and mate. I am not British.
Even though I'm an ESL I often times think in English. Probably because almost all the media I consume is in English.
Yes, I’m the same! My inner voice mimics a recent voice i’ve heard to long. Currently it’s RTgame cus I binged his videos lol
This has been me with Civvie 11 for the past 3 years.
I never realized that all the audio in my head is my own until now.
It's discussions like this that make me wonder if one day Woolie is going to reveal that this whole TH-cam channel was just an experiment and Pat is patient #67.
Putting the MAD in Madden.
Does that mean… all that fake Woolie lore back in the SBFP days were real? Is Woolie just as crazy and shady as his ancestors of the Maddentown clan?
@@Malysitos if anything, it was toned down to be more believable
These "Super Beasts"...are they in the room right now?
@@Malysitos the scots knew
he is the dark history
Paige and Pat confirmed on stream that when Pat remembers sexy times they've had, it's also Pat's voice.
Side note: Pat looks pretty good in flannel!
This is poisoned knowledge you have put in my brain. Remembering this fact while I’m driving ten years from now WILL kill me.
So pat's literally thinking about fucking himself...
Flannel is just the next stage of Pat's transformation into a real PNWer
@@SlaaneshiChosen_Carmenahey remember this comment? Hope you aren’t looking at this while driving.
pat's recollections and thoughts being governed by the overwhelming force of The Pat Filter is killing me
Somehow that explains so much
Jokes aside, I really love when people have these conversations. It's interesting to see how we're all wired differently and experience things differently.
i've been watching these guys for probably over a decade by now, yet its only till i heard this conversation on the podcast while at work that i finally truly understood patrick boivin
Same
Kind of you to put that “finally” on there. I’m scared that the rabbit hole goes even deeper than we’ve all seen yet
I'd like to think that if you were to Somnium Files dive into Pat's brain it would be not only every sound his voice, but also every person being him in different wigs and every thing also being some kind of Elden Ring abomination version of him in a shape that somewhat resembles the thing.
This feels like what would happen if two people from alternate universes actually met
Pat is from a world where sound apparently doesn't exist, and words are instead telepathically transmitted.
Well clearly, now Pat needs to release a concept album of how he remembers songs and famous conversations/ monologues.
"Who uploads podcast clips at midnight?"
Woolie: "Oh boy, midnight!"
9pm here
@@shadowrunner4620 Timezones exist my dude. The world does not orbit around you. Besides it's midnight for Woolie, so the comment checks out.
@@shadowrunner4620 Woolie lives in Montreal though so it’s midnight for him
East cost gang
@@diegomedina9637 what if it does orbit around him? He could be living in the North Pole for all we know.
After this whole conversation, all I can think of is what the hell does the Twinsanity OST sound like inside Pat's head.
The Pat Everywhere System will revolutionize internal monologues
This entire conversation is just:
Woolie: “No Pat, you can’t possibly be that crazy!”
Pat: “No I totally am, for real. Like really.”
The best part about this is how invested into this craziness Woolie is. His reactions had me rolling! Also yeah, when I think about a song I just hear the actual singer voice.
And I tried to imagine my own voice singing the song and it doesnt work, which is something interesting I never noticed.
I guess since woolie having known pat for nearly 20 years now would have gotten used to all his weird quirks but he somehow keeps learning new things
It seems Pat has Aphantasia, a lot of the questions Woolie brings up are commonly asked. It's essentially image free thinking it might derive from autism
It explains a lot about Pat, honestly. I've heard of no one else having their brain wired this way.
I feel like this is somehow attached to his inability to understand all things creative. A shared root cause
This is so bizarre to try to even imagine, it would be so weird to remember a conversation with my mom or something and hear my voice.
I don't even understand what he's trying to say. He's saying he can "remember" how Micheal Jackson sounds when singing thriller, but if he remembers the sound, how else would he do it other than playing it back in his head?
robert downey jr: thats because pat is lying
@@NeoBoneGirl what i think he means is that if he memorize a song strongly, he can think about how the song sounds in the back of his mind, but if he wants to reply the melody and the lyrics at the top of his mind, he is only able to do it like if he does it in person by himself. My theory is that pat train his brain to do this by accident since he was a child. However its very strange that someone that studied a carrer on psychology, dont have any notion of the common ways the memory works. I dont know if i believe pat forgot about this or not at some point.
Pat was seriously about to launch into a ninja-esque "why don't they just get a home run every time" rant at the end before he caught himself, wasn't he?
Yeah.
The phenomenon of being able to "hear" sounds in your head is called *audiation*
So... whenever Pat thinks back on LPs he did with Woolie, his memory is of himself talking to a Woolie who is speaking with Pat's own voice doing a bad impression of Woolie speaking?
I read Pat's tweets in his voice.
Pat reads ALL tweets in his voice.
We are not the same.
i never really thought hard about whether my memories of someones voice are accurate until now, when i remember my bf's voice i get tingles so I think mine are accurate enough.
Well that's the most adorable thing I've read all day
That's really sweet. I'm happy for ya.
Wooly not understanding what afantasia is is the gift that keeps on giving.
I know this isn't what Pat was implying but I can't help but imagine in Pat's head that all of his memories with other people are just of him dressed up as those people doing an imitation of them. Like if he's remembering back to conversation he had with Paige it's just him with a red wig on and two balloons under his shirt going "oh my gawd Patrickuhh!"
Woolies finally finding out that neurodivergent brains hit different.
While I don't have it as bad as Pat, I have something incredibly similar. I don't have the same issue with music, I tend to hear a facsimile of the music, a mixture of what my idea of the music is and the actual music. When it comes to actual memories, that's when it gets weird. Most of the time I don't remember anything at all, or if I do make a solid memory, it's more like the idea of what happened as opposed to a solid event. Like, I know this happened, but I couldn't tell you the exact circumstances in which is occurred. Unless it's a trauma memory, then I never forget that shit.
And boy do I relate to that dream stuff too. It's not quite a check list, but there certainly are no words in my dreams either.
But what is wild is finding out that normal people can just hear other people in their head. Like, wtf?????? You can recall a conversation and the other voice is the other person!!!!??? That's just wild.
We all really do hit different. I'm also ND, and my internal experiences can be vivid enough the they overpower my current living experience. A key part of how i've managed to train martial arts for two decades is that enjoy the outcome of the training i imagine in my mind so much, it drowns out any sort of tedium or fatigue.
Needing five minutes of clarification on what Pat is saying before going 'is this a bit?' is peak Woolie. He wants to make absolutely sure he's not misunderstanding so he can call Pat insane without messing up.
However, Pat is /also/ being insane by needing to clarify in complete and utter honesty that he draws a distinction between remembering and 'hearing' things in his brain.
This conversation alone was one of the best CSB things ever.
Like, I think I get what Pat's saying, even if I don't experience things like he's describing; Pat's just abysmal at explaining it, as usual. I think it's a mix of different perspectives as well as some kind of difference between our internal voices. He's experiencing the act of remembering and hearing as separate actions, where as we can experience both actions in the same way, so we don't make the distinction between them. In Pat's world, remembering a song would be like having the sheet music; you're looking at the lyrics, you know the time signature, you can see where a solo is, etc. Hearing the song is the act of putting sound to that sheet music, but, for some reason, Pat can only apply sounds that he himself can make, like he's trying to construct a song our of a soundboard; he doesn't have the real instruments, so he has to make do with tweaking the sounds he _does_ have. You and I know what the instruments sound like, and can reproduce it, but he can't.
I think the reason he's drawing the distinction is because he can't recreate it, and as such has conditioned himself to just stop trying; it sounds insane to you or me because we never conditioned ourselves to do this, since we had no reason to. He's technically correct that remembering and hearing are separate actions, it's just that the average person smooths it over into being 2 aspects of the same action. It's like the distinction between putting coins in a vending machine and buying something from the vending machine; we smoothed it over as just part of buying something, but it's technically 2 actions. It's pedantic as fuck, but when has that ever stopped Pat?
Woolie, thank you so much for uploading this, the look of sheer disbelief and horror you had on your face whilePat explained how he hears things other people said in his own voice made me laugh so so loud people 2 floors up could hear me. The audio alone on the podcast would not have done this justice.
The part that is most fascinating to me here is that Pat has a clear distinction between remembering sound and "hearing" sound in his head, with the memories somehow containing the information of how they sound but not a impression of the sound itself or something like that, some odd super neutral thing that can only exists in the mind.
I would not be surprised if there are a lot of differences in how people actually think, like how Paige has described her memories as always dark (as in lack of light) while I often remember thing in 3rd person and also thanks to this conversation here I noticed that my internal voice is some indescribable neutral amalgamation but get temporarily coloured by listening to a specific voice for a while.
Would be super interesting to compare how that works across many people, but probably really hard to compare in a scientific way.
I think I get what Pat's saying. Even when I try to remember stuff and play it back in my head it kinda gets filtered through my voice a bit. But he's crazy for saying all this memories in his head are all in his voice. I play back a song in my head back with relative accuracy, this very much is a Patism.
Can you imagine how dangerous a man like Pat would be if he was surrounded by Yesmen?
I understand and agree with what you said , but can you define the term "Patism" for me ?
@@junaidazam12 something unique to Pat
@@junaidazam12 Saying crazy shit often quite edgy in the sense that his views can be really out there sometimes and Woolie has to put him back on the rails. Not like offense, but he's want to say some crazy shit every so often usually resulting in Woolie giving him confused face.
@@s7robin105 , ok thanks
I'm the only voice that's allowed to be in my head sounds like one of the most unintentionally narcissistic things I've ever heard
5:45 😂 Woolie's expression and the silence here is golden
Someone described woolie and pat as the id and superego and this podcast highlight is the best example of that statement
I think this a job related issue. Since Pat's job is basically talking and reading out loud peoples messages. He became so use to hearing his own voice. That now replays of conversations are in his voice. I once used a Jeff Goldblum impression to joke around with some friends, but that impression was stuck in my head and I would do it inadvertently for an hour. I think that happed to Pat but its permanent lol.
That reminds me, but I would honestly love to see a study on what people hear in their head when they read comments or social media posts. I mostly just default to what type of profile pic they are using.
What about Woolie then?
Pat's been doing this job since he was, what, in his 20s? But he explains his way of thought as though it has always been this way since his birth. I don't think his job has any effect on this at all.
Remembering sounds being heard is like a midi sound font. Most of us can "download" more than one sound font into our brains. Pat is stuck with only his "own voice" as his sole sound font.
now the question is: was Pat like this his entire life, or did he only become this way after he slipped on ice and hit his back of his head on a bus.
if you google "can you hear music in your head?" there's a good Reddit post with a lot of answers similar to Pat's. I imagine that the better your detection of pitch and orchestration/timbre are, the easier it is to audiate music after hearing it. There are certainly exceptions ofc, but I'd be super interested in Pat doing some musical ear-training and seeing if his ability to audiate songs improves 🤫
Most people dream in full dive VR while Pat is stuck with the text logs.
his Mind Palace is just a RE Mansion with hundreds of papers everywhere
Not gonna lie, after hearing this section, my mind immediately circled back to earlier in the podcast and went "Yeah, I think people should play Wo Long themselves instead of listening to Pat."
u can say that about a lot of things regarding Pats takes on any type of media
Stuff like this and not being able to mentally picture things is so unbelievable to me that im convinced that you could be taught to be able to do it if you cant.
Finally! I don't feel so crazy. I have a pretty strong inner monologue that also defaults to me acting out the parts for other people and music. The difference is, I can put in the effort to switch it back to the actual speaker's normal voice. It just takes a pretty heavy conscious, continuous effort, or it'll switch back to default mode.
Maybe pat is actually that way, and he never learned to train himself to do that?
Hell yeah brother! It takes some/more effort to bring up memories as they happened, much easier to just recall the "transcript" and "read" that.
This is definitely not crazy. Calling it a transcript feels really accurate, actually. I wonder if all the people calling Pat crazy actually don't do this, or if they do and just don't realize it. Or perhaps there some ratio.
@@EmeraldLance some people think they remember events exactly as they happened. Woolie is talking about being able to perfectly recall instruments in any song he has committed to memory.
@@EmeraldLance I mean if it's something really long and dry yeah I might recall it in my voice like I'm reading text. Then again if it's anything remotely engaging there is 0% mental effort required to recall voices and sounds. I will only recall something someone's said to me in my own voice if it was so long ago or our interaction was so brief that I can no longer remember what they sounded like, or I'm intending to do so.
It doesn't even need to be something I've actually heard though, I can also imagine someone saying something that I've never even heard them say and have it be reasonably accurate to their voice.
I completely understand what Pat is saying. The difference is like a relatively vague memory of it that has an inconsistent sense of time vs recalling enough to replicate it.
I get that entirely. If he had explained it like this it would’ve been a much shorter conversation 😂
Not really. Time has no bearing on whether or not I can imaging Michael Jackson talking to Chester Cheetah about Avengers Endgame. I don't substitute my own voice into that scenario I simply conjure the conversation wholesale from imagination.
@@Wiffernubbin are you telling me not everyone's brains think the same way? no way!
I might get where he's coming from. I think another way to put it is like this: when the exact sound of what someone said isn't in recent memory, you internalize the dialogue and meaning of what was said, but eventually your mind removes the exact audio that was used (to clear up space for more recent audio/visual information) and so when you look back and try to remember it you basically just read that dialogue back in your own voice.
However, that bit about instruments and Zangief barking is quite a bit farther than I feel like it should go normally.
I have an opposite problem where I can remember people's voices down to their most basic inflections, but I cannot replicate what I sound like. The voice I hear in recordings sounds completely different than the voice I hear while I'm speaking -- it feels like I'm listening to two complete strangers and it totally messes with my brain.
Well yeah, your voice coming out of your vocal chords and then circling around to your ears is going to sound a bit different to you than it would be to someone else hearing you speak.
I think Pat is just distinctly aware of what his own voice sounds like due to a decade of working on video game playthroughs so that may have somewhat of an impact on his psyche
Patrick "dreams are just a list of things that happened" Boivin
Its like his brain is the complete opposite of how a musicians brain works ?!?
Pat is 100% right, he just explained it bad. When you recall something through memory by focusing on it yes you remember it as it sounds, not its not a 1 to 1 sound. Its as accurate as your memory but even if you just experienced it, it will be slightly off in your head. However if you try to actual hear it in your head, you will find that you are actually imitating it using your own manner of noise. Often time you will even find you are slightly moving your jaw and tongue as if you were actually saying it yourself. This wont register to you unless you focus on the rendition. In both cases however you are not hearing it as if it were real which I think is what Pat was getting at before deciding to just roll with the bit. Its people who hear things as if it were actually real, like hearing an actual voice, that have a mental issue; thats the "god told me to do it" crowd.
Basically its 3 levels of "hearing" something that isn't a sound.
Pat is confirmed an NPC, but like a NPC that is a miniboss to block your way across a bridge or something.
That's the beauty of the brain. That just goes to show how much more imaginative some people are than others. I could have morgan freeman as my inner head voice for a day and make him sing songs and voice every character in my memories at will.
Pat needs to get an mri and a CT scan this is wild
the best way to describe pat's brain/inner voice is that it only runs in midi. if he needs to play back a sound, song, voice in his head, he uses the sounds of his own voice to do it. the human brain is truly fascinating.
We need the A.I voice bots to remake every part of billie jean with pat's voice
I haven’t taken this much psychic damage from a CSB segment in a long time
I think the half hour of them constantly trying and failing to articulate how this kind of phenomena specifically affects Pat perfectly illustrates the problem with the study asked in the question.
This kind of of beautiful psychological analysis is why I tune into CastleSuperBeast.
The only thing that stops this from being a man slowly realizing that he is a narcissistic psychopath is Pat's inherent lack of self-awareness.
So woolie is talking about an mp3 file for music and mp4 for dreams
while pat about a midi file for music and a text adventure in dreams
Sephiroth: I will never become a memory.
Pat: Sounds like a good idea.
I think I understand to a certain degree. When you replay a song, you do remember the voice. But if you suddenly start singing it mid replay, you tend to shape your voice in the form of that particular vocalist. I find that this can pull me out of that song with the sudden shift. However, I also note how much I try to mimic what I remember hearing. If my physical vocal chords could hit the notes and tone, they would.
What I've come to see it as is literally me singing to myself, just without my physical limitations.
Even when I remember someone's voice, if I were to mimic them in my head, then start talking, my inner voice would literally be mimicking me, mimicking them.
I also connect this with a problem of talking to myself, like I need to act out the thought as well for no other reason than to hear myself critically. Like when you think something stupid, say it, then realize you said something stupid.
The really shocking thing about this isn't that Pat only has conversations in his head with his own voice.
It's that when he replays a song, he hears the instruments being mimicked with his voice.
Literally every sound in Pat's head, whether verbal or not, is just Pat's voice.
This discussion brings to mind a phrase that I've mulled over for a time. But I think Pat is "Functionally Insane"
this segment is peak why I can only watch the podcast, your missing out on so much of woolie's face of agony
The fact that Pat apparently remembers everything as a Ad-lib with his own voice sounds like a hell in of itself
When I listen to music, I memorize it; once I have it completely memorized, I can play it back completely in my head- vocals, instruments, even a music video if I've seen (or imagined) one for it. I once had a girlfriend who couldn't do any of that, and could only remember lyrics... but it only took her two or three listens to completely learn those.
It's like human brains aren't completely uniform, or something.
So Pat can’t AI Generate a voice or sound if the memory is not in his short term memory
This explains how y'all can get your memory mucked up by made up things that people never said. Nearly no distinction between imagined thought or memory.
To be certain, music actually specifically is basically an MP3 player in my brain. I always am hearing music exactly as it is, if I've heard it enough.
Weirdly enough this discussion has caused me to realize that I think I'm the opposite of Pat. I can imagine the sounds of other people's voices and such no problem, but I don't know what voice my own internal monologue is in. Like I can't actually imagine what my own voice sounds like, and maybe it's due to inexperience but if I do record my voice for something and play it back, I'm always surprised by the sound of my own voice. But despite that like I said I have a very vivid mind's eye where I have no problem visualizing 3D objects and other such sounds and sensations and the like.
Pat records and plays back his own voice constantly for his job so that may have had an impact on how his audiation works.
Most people like you or myself don't actually hear their voice out loud the way others hear us unless we play back a recording so I assume most people's "inner voice" doesn't even sound accurate.
i.e. Pat's brain has been oversaturated by Pat
Kudos to pat for realizing at the end he was about to go full 4 year old and dropping the why aren't you perfect thinking
Everyone else is watching a movie in their head, Pat's watching a play.
So Pat's mind is basically Luis from Ant-Man when he was describing stuff, but nonstop
Listening to this conversation was a an experience like no other bro 😂
This is one of the craziest conversations I've ever heard on a podcast no joke, I thought Pat was doing a bit for the first like 10 minutes. Wild
Every time Woolie thinks he's seen the full depth of the Pat's Insanity boss fight he gets walloped over the head with the next phase. This is like me accidentally standing on Sister Friede's body when I reached the Blackflame phase for the first time.
This reminds me of a clip of a vtuver discovering that they might have aphantasia by saying to her chat "Wait, how can you guys imagine an apple, just like out of nowhere?"
I can synthesize any voice I've heard, in my brain.
It's weird bc I can also synthesize what someone speaking a foreign language would sound like if they spoke English. It may not always be 100% accurate but it's close enough.
I can turn on pats "my own voice replaces other noises" but I turned it off right away due to how easy it would be to rely on that while also making it harder for me to switch back to hearing instruments.
Scary
“I can remember the smell of poop and spaghetti”
It's official. Pat has fully surpassed us as a species.
Imagine going into pat's mind palace persona 5 style.
All npc's and shadows talk like pat.
All sound effects are pat mimicking the sound, including footsteps.
The music-
It's not even music, man.
It's nonsense.
I think there's two sides to this, there's the "Subconscious Play Back" and the "Conscious Mimicry".
The Subconscious Play Back recreates what you listened to perfectly without you needing to focus on it.
The Conscious Mimicry on the other hand has you recreate the thing you listened to, but through a filter of your own recreated sounds and your own voice.
I have an inner monologue and it is 24/7. The voice is just mine, always, never anyone else's-- Even when I'm remembering another person's voices. I know what Pat's talking about!!!!! But then I also have lucid dreams every night since forever and I don't understand how other people can't control their dreams fully (I have never had a nightmare either), so I think there's something fucked up with me. I am Autistic, if that matters.
Okay, this makes sene now. He's right in that you do talk to youself in your head, and your internal voice reciting a memory in a recreation or memory of another... and then i had to stop when i got to him saying "its me making mouth noises" when imagining a guitar. I dont understand
"Yes, of course."
I love the indignity
Fun fact! Memories aren't perfect playbacks, they're recreations of things you've seen, heard, smelled, or felt in the past. Recreations made exclusively in your own brain, separate from the reality that inspired them. I feel like Pat is just hyper aware of something that is the case for everyone, but most simply refuse to admit or acknowledge it.
Your brain is not actually creating auditory stimulation of a guitar, it's just mimicking the feeling you got when you heard the guitar.