Nerd Culture, "Fake Geek Girls", & The Psychology of Nerdy Gatekeeping
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 10 ก.ค. 2024
- tl;dw: why can’t people just enjoy things 🙃
Lol let’s be real: we’ve all done it at some point. But why exactly is toxic gatekeeping so rampant in the geek/nerd community? What’s with the weird urge to keep these fun hobbies and interests exclusive? ⚔
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🕝TIME STAMPS:
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0:00 - Storytime!
1:36 - What is gatekeeping?
4:24 - "Nerds" vs. "Geeks"
6:08 - Oppression of the nerds
10:17 - The refuge of "geek culture"
12:48 - "Geek" culture - from niche to mainstream
16:00 - Plight of the "real nerds"
19:29 - Rise of the "fake geek girls"
25:14 - What can we do about gatekeeping in the community?
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Jay Edidin's "Geek Masculinity and the Myth of the Fake Geek Girl":
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"The Fake Geek Girl" (short film by Patrick (H) Willems):
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#gatekeeping #nerdculture #geekculture #fakegeekgirl #fakegeeks - บันเทิง
I'm autistic and when I was a kid minecraft was literally my special interest and I memoried all the crafting recipes and the whole minecraft wiki, and then some boy at school tried quizzing me lol.
I had the same experience with Doctor Who, lol. Turns out he was the 'casual' fan out the both of us.
Yeah, women are generally assumed to be casual fans (rather than ‘real’ fans) of any hobby that’s typically male-centered. That calls up another question though: what’s wrong with being a casual fan? Anyway you have great cadence on camera and really in-depth research, keep it up! (P.S. I love your shirt)
Aw, thank you so much! 😁 And haha nice to meet a fellow Zim fan. :) Very true on the whole "casual fan" thing though - I mentioned this in another comment but these pop culture interests are simply to be enjoyed at the end of the day. Does it truly matter who loves it more/is more passionate? Casual consumption of something shouldn't mean you lose the right to appreciate it altogether.
Omg two of my new favourite channels supporting each other! The crossover I didn’t know I neeeded.
@@ana-isabel how is someone taking away your right to appreciate something your conflating someone taking issue with you with removing your rights.
Receipts please anybody who says they are fan is a fan. What straight male wound shut down a girl who’s interested in what you’re interested in.
@@dorjedriftwood2731 Happens more than you might think. Sometimes I don 't think it's malicious but rather trying to show off to the girl how much knowledge they have which can come across as condescending when not approached right.
Sometimes gatekeeping seems like a weird warped version of negging. Tearing someone down to "impress" them.
Hahaa never thought of it that way - but that's pretty spot on! 🤔
gotta admit, I'm one of those ppl
Anybody who thinks negging is something bad doesn’t understand it. It’s a way of telling a joke. If you’re negging and it’s making somebody feel bad if just being a jerk. The entire idea is to playfully tease someone and even friends do this to each other particularly you will notice females ribbing each other about things to make each other laugh. It’s an observational joke which makes the person feel like your being friendly, as opposed to guys approaching you and being overtly thirsty they can make a joke to break the ice so both parties feel like they are friendly terms and the guy isn’t just out to get something from you. By negging they are telling you they are friendly instead of coming off like a needy predator.
When people talk about negging it’s almost always a clue they heard about it from someone who heard about it and you actually haven’t read a pickup book in your life. Pick up is about teaching socially inept men how to make playful funny banter and to flirt. Why would women be against guys being more socially capable of holding a conversation.
Being creepy generally comes from being socially awkward and overtly thirsty. Negging fixes this by making the person feel socially adjusted and like they are interested in interacting with you as a person not seeing you as some flawless goddess for them to possess. It signals to you that they might not be absolutely into you which would normally get a guy rejected outright unless he is so attractive it doesn’t matter.
Talking to you like your a human being isn’t a bad thing. A lot of people think it’s about attacking someone’s self esteem that generally doesn’t make you popular and pick up is kinda the art of being popular....so yeah that’s not negging. A lot of pick up guys are scum bags but none of them a rude to women because that doesn’t work, which is why you think you’re making fun of pick up because what you think negging is sounds dumb. And your right what you think pick up is dumb. Meanwhile guys are doing pick up stuff all the time and you don’t even know it because actual pick up is designed to make you enjoy the persons company because what else would it be for?
"WELL ACTUALLY..."
Man, never thought I'd be nagged about what negging is.
"Negging is an act of emotional manipulation whereby a person makes a deliberate backhanded compliment or otherwise flirtatious remark to another person to undermine their confidence and increase their need of the manipulator's approval.
You're still essentially tearing someone down. I've been socially inept. Decided to grow from it. Not putting someone on a pedestal, is just treating them like you would anyone else. Joking is joking. They're usually your friends and you've known them for a while. That's different from manipulating someone to want your approval.
I used to be basically a neckbeard when I was 15 and yeah, that was exactly what I was doing. The girl I liked would talk about something she liked and I'd pipe up all smug and say "Ah, that one's no good, you SHOULD be watching (something similar but older or more obscure)!" I thought I was impressing her and everyone around by being "unique in my tastes"
I remember a guy just coming at me bc he thought I never really played New Vegas - and that was even more ridiculous considering it's not even a particularly arcane one - and I ended up going on a massive rant about my favorite storyline of the game and it turned out he didn't know shit about it or almost all of the game. His argument was that I liked it solely because I was trying to appeal to guys...and that was weird, considering I was lesbian.
New Vegas is the best! Obsidian made the game Outer Worlds which came out recently which has been fun but not on the level of New Vegas.
He probably liked you, hoping you were appealing to him XDD
I tried playing New Vegas twice but never finished it. All the crucifying and monsters and dark tone gave me anxiety. Same with dead space. I tried playing it multiple times and could never make it over an hour into the game. Violence doesn’t bother me. Feeling like I’m going to die any time (even though I know it’s just a game) does.
This reminds me of the reactions I used to get when I said I haven't seen Star Wars. It was like I personally slapped them in the face the way some of those folks reacted. So I eventually got around to watching Star Wars and ended up thinking "was that it?" I guess they were good in their time but it was an odd reaction coming from people in their 20s in the 2010s.
Men literally think everything women do is about them 🙄
There's this weird unspoken mindset in geek culture where you can't just passively like or enjoy something. Instead you have to be completely obsessed & know every facet about the media otherwise you're a fake fan.
Or just not able to properly partake... My group runs Warhammer 40k matches and we had to stop letting in inexperienced people into our tournaments because they would make games take 16 times longer than they should have because they didn't have a proper grasp on the games rules and would have to consult the rule book constantly as they played... A tournament that would usually take one weekend ended up having to be spread out over 5 weekends and many of the casual people decided not to show up again leading to forfeits and people getting mad...
Similar thing happened when me and my friends would run a Halo tournament locally with a entrance fee and prize pool... Well a soccer mom comes up and has a couple 8 year old kids with her and she signs them up for the tournament they lose very quickly and the kids while sad they lost were cool about it... But the mom ends up going full Karen and tries to get our tournament arrested for illegal gambling while acting violent, breaking controllers, etc... She ended up using pepper spray on one of my friends when he asked her to leave the property and the police got involved and it was just a massive clusterfuck...
I have many more stories like this but we ended up making a list of prerequisites and rules people have to meet before they can join events and we haven't had any problems since... Even with those rules our community is still steadily expanding though...
Yes and I hate this so much, I dont have enough energy to dig deep and know every little thing about something I enjoy. I just want to enjoy it and have fun with it, not learn everything about it as if I`m going to get it on a test. Its supposed to be fun and relaxing to have intrests, not a freaking exam.
The idea of requiring someone else to know just as much as you on a certain subject (whatever it is), just to me sounds ridiculous. As someone who witnessed and experienced bullying directed at people who were intellectual, liked knowing things and often liked showing it (myself included), the idea that you know things that others don't comes with a price. People often see you as conceited and arrogant. Maybe to some level that is true, but in the process they force you to keep your "knowledge" to yourself, to be humble and not to be so proud. This happened to both male and female children.
They put you in your place. You are not allowed to take pride in what you know. You are not allowed to show off or brag. Bragging and showing off are wrong and not cool.
When it came to being a "nerd," I was not in the habit of showing it, even privately. If you came to visit me, you would not see many items in my bedroom that were indicators of "nerdiness." There were two reasons for that: (1) I had selective mutism and (2) I had stingy parents. I was an impoverished nerd.
My "nerdiness" did not take the form of items purchased from shops and retail stores, unlike most other kids. They came out in my interests: (1) the books I borrowed from the school and local public library, (2) drawings I made of electrical appliances, machines and astronomical objects, (3) writing out technical information about computers and anything else I knew. If you can't buy it, you can borrow it, draw it or write about it -- when you're bored and have nothing better to do.
Due to my selective mutism and stingy parents, I didn't get as many opportunities to show "outward nerdiness" as other kids. I was a different kind of nerd to most other nerds. I was often bullied by those other nerds.
The reason for me saying all this is -- after all the stuff that happened to me, the "fake fan" thing always seemed stupid to me. It was the kind of thing the "neurotypical nerds" (the ones who never had selective mutism or didn't have stingy parents) would have done to me.
When I first saw the word "fan" on the Internet, I immediately disliked it. It reminded me of those "neurotypical nerds." I just wanted to be left alone, to live my own life, pursue my own interests. I had few friends and was quite happy with my solitary interests.
I am fine being interested in things, but calling myself a "fan" . . . of anything . . . I would be opening myself up to having to pass a test . . . and possibly being bullied . . . again . . . no thanks. To all those "neurotypical nerds" out there . . . you did it to me when I was a kid, but you will never do it to me, again as an adult.
Having said that, I find the word "fanboy" to be a fitting insult. Take that.
Gatekeeping in the potato fandom is actually known as "potatekeeping". You'd know that if you were a REAL gatekeeping fan and not just a fake gatekeeping girl.
Um, actually, it's the tuber fandom? Clearly you haven't delved into TuberTube.
Yall are too much 😭😂💀
@@RisingSunfish Did you go to spudcon? I used to, but it's too full of phoneys now.
And only us Irish may be members 🇮🇪
I love you all. ❤️😂
The "Fake Geek Girls" stigma has been a personal gripe for me.
My girlfriend loves Anime/Manga, all kinds of art, is an avid reader and can get very passionate about basically everthying. While she hasn't experienced this type of toxicity that you feature in the intro, there are more than enough smaller, less explicit encounters where she's been made to feel like her passions aren't authentic/real and she just wants to be liked by boys.
Same thing for my sister and my other female friends who are on the "so passionate about obscure/niche things it's kinda scary" spectrum.
It's really upsetting how there is this weird double standard where you're automatically geekier/nerdier as soon as you got a schwartz between your legs whilst women have to basically outdo men in whatever thing they like in order to be considered "real".
I am very thankful that this topic gets a bit more attention, especially in such a very well researched and put together way. Kudos to you, you deserve way more subs than you currently have! (Love the shirt btw)
That has to do with the fact that women, ON AVERAGE, have more generic and socially acceptable hobbies than men, who, ON AVERAGE, venture out into niche interests more othen. Sure, this is the result of generations of social conditioning, but it still very much holds true even to this day. People cling on to stereotypes, because, in their personal experience, these stereotypes have accurately reflected reality.
@@olserknam Well, as the saying goes, stereotypes exist for a reason, for better or for worse.
olserknam well... when you get shit from general culture *and* the niche culture... you would keep it quiet or just drop interest, too.
@@olserknam or MAYBE, just maybe, women are better at hiding their interests and hobby's the same way women of the past hid their love of writting and visual arts throughout history.
@@olserknam sure dude.....because being a gamer is something special, and where did you get that assumption from? some data to back it up? and many women hide their hobbies, to avoid harassment or questioning their authenticity so stfu I personally don't share my interests with anyone so I won't be questioned or accused of liking them only to appease the boys™
Found your channel today now I'm binge watching all your videos!
Aw damn, that means a lot! 😅 Thank you!
Same, but 2 months later
same but i gotta go to sleep 😭😭😭😭
Same
Same B )
As a female nerd who grew up in the late 80s, man I felt this. I was the lone girl in the comic shop getting the side-eye from the counter guy because I was grabbing all the Midnight Sons imprint stuff instead of something "girl-appropriate" like Wonder Woman, basically until I was one of the regulars with a pull list. I was also basically one of the only girls in my school who knew anything that existed in the Nintendo repertoire besides Mario, and thus had to face endless insistence that "Girls can't play videogames!", and getting bullied off of arcade machines because of this belief. Nerds have always been gatekeepers; so long as you didn't fit some narrow criteria of what they felt was "allowed" to be part of that sub-culture, you were to be treated as wrong or to be ostracized. Those same sorts of guys who told me to get off the X-Men arcade cabinet because girls couldn't play video games were basically the same sorts who later would tell me that a girl couldn't raid in World of Warcraft, or that would conversely perv on me the minute they realized I was a real girl and not just playing a female toon.
Funny thing is, for all that people just shrug and say "well, *everyone* gatekeeps," I feel like I don't see it half as much in other settings. I've never had someone at a Renaissance Faire tell me I wasn't welcome because I wasn't in full garb, or seen someone at a museum tell another guest that they had to be able to recognize at a glance the difference between Caravaggio and a Sareceni.to be a true art aficionado. Meanwhile, if I say I like Star Wars, I'm immediately in a place where I'm risking getting called a phony for saying I liked the Prequel Trilogy just as much as the Original. Saying I like D&D in the wrong place opens me up to hate if I admit that 4e was my favorite edition, and I actually hate 5e. Saying I prefer Street Fighter and King of Fighters versus Mortal Kombat has made more than one person say that I "can't handle real fighting games!" And so on.
And the funniest part of that to me, is that just as much of this comes from people I've looked at and can only think "poseur!" One guy who said that Street Fighter wasn't as real or hardcore as Mortal Kombat? Offered to let him try SFIV: he couldn't even get off a Sonic Boom after bragging about how skilled he was, before I trampled him while playing a character I didn't even usually favor. Same guy goes on about his Marvel and DC knowledge, plasters his walls with Iron Man movie posters and buys a ton of Nightwing merch...has never actually read a single comic book, and only knows the characters from the DCAU and the MCU. It's like they have this insecurity about how their elitism/knowledge of their precious thing might be lacking if they can't outdo or bully out this "fake fan."
That said, I also feel like it's not even a push back against popularity or mainstreaming, so much as just a petty refusal to believe that there can be layers to a hobby/fandom. This idea that anyone who is less than 100% devoted to a thing is somehow not allowed in that space, and that those with that level of devotion are allowed to dictate who can and can't come into it. This behavior also pushes away curious newcomers, just as much as it pushes away the "less devoted." Problem becomes that this is how these things die. A hobby or skill that isn't passed on to a younger generation who want to learn it will die, and so to will a fandom that people gatekeep for fear of "mainstreaming" and "casuals" coming into it. If this thing isn't making money, then the manufacturers have no reason to keep producing. And that's what I think people who ostracize Crit Roll fans from their D&D tables, or Cartoon Network Naruto fans from otaku-dom don't realize, or refuse to. It's not the mainstreaming of their hobby that's damaging it, or the pressure to include/change to accommodate social issues, but rather an unwillingness to accept that other levels of fan can have a place, and that sometimes, change is beneficial.
You speak true sis!
The main point about this gatekeeping is rejection... Is seeing the groups that bullied you for these things now wanting to be a part of the community, "invading" what was a safe space... And women are one of those groups, specially highly attractive ones
This whole wall of text proves why gatekeeping is so necessary. Better the geeks take a hobby or franchise under ground or kill it, if need be, before admitting sanctimonious intruders who will utterly mangle it by injecting their "social issues" and "change".
Noone should be welcomed into every group and every group should have standards to prove you do or eventually can belong there.
@@fritobandito5374 you make me worried about any human interaction you have due to the fact you would rather kidnap and kill what you love instead of sharing it with some filthy liberals.
>the same sorts who later would tell me that a girl couldn't raid in World of Warcraft
What the fuck. Some of the best raiders I ever played with were women. In all roles they excelled just like guys. And then you have the women who play Healer mains who are just off the charts incredible. I don't really like the "healer girl" stereotype but my experience raiding server first in WoW taught me where the stereotype comes from.
Geek guys: //shuns women from the community//
Geek guys: Why can't I get a girlfriend?
Very true... And sad...
I've not known any Geek Girls that I'd ever want to get with - other than on TH-cam.
And I guarantee these girls aren't dating Real Geeks...
@@xtraflo I don't know the women on the internet, nor do I know who they date, but I can draw 2 conclusions based on your comment. 1. You fantasize a bit to much, about the kind of girl you want and are not realistic at all. If you believe enything you see online then you're just a naive boy who needs to get more realistic.
2. You are quick to judge, seeing as how you judge the entire female population in the nerd community, based on the small sample size you've seen in your (I'm guessing not very long) life, instead of trying to change your own perspective.
Bonus conclusion, you are probably pretty narcissistic and tend to attack others if they say something you do not agree with...
@@psiho94 Oh you have me completely wrong. I only speak from World experience. I've been with a wide range of girls from all corners of the Planet, they're all the same. Which is, unhappy. I'm also very self concious and hope to fond information that changes my pessimist view of humanity.
@@xtraflo Hahaha, ok. I do not believe you at all, but sure. On the internet you can be whatever you want.
I felt really weird about the conversation in the beginning of the video, not just because I have been the "victim" of a conversation like this, but also because I frequently am the person doing the information dump. But when I do it I'm not trying to gatekeep or show off, it is because I am excited about the thing I'm talking about and because I want to teach the other person more about it (and frequently the person actually got interested and went after more information on their own later), but I never realised that sometimes the person might be uncomfortable with the conversation... I guess I have to be more aware of that...
fuck that. thats a them problem not a you problem.
I feel like there's a profound difference between the fan-geek info-dump, where you're really involved in just telling someone everything they don't know about something when they admit to not having a great amount of knowledge/being new to that fandom, and actual gatekeeping. Your info-dump method seems more of the "OMG, you like this thing? Did you know *this* really awesome stuff about it?", which is usually okay even if someone doesn't want to hear about it. It's not too unlike a D&D or other TTRPG gamer who wants to tell someone all about their level 30 Rogue's crazy adventure, and how there was this one time they fought a red dragon practically solo...while that newbie gamer just wants to learn how to play the game.
The example of gatekeeping at the beginning of the video is more "Oh, you want to call yourself a fan? You must know exactly *this much* obscure info about this subject, and have a collection of *this much* rare/exclusive/etc. merch to be considered A TRUE FAN." It's like the extreme end of a comic book counter guy, who gives the side-eye to any girl who comes into the shop, and is super-judgmental if they don't bring up the expected "approved for girls" comics.
As long as you’re not targeting the person you’re infodumping on and trying to make them prove that “they’re a real fan”, I’d say you’re good
I don't think you should worry about excited info dumping so much as HOW you info dump. The person she was referencing, was clearly doing to show off their knowledge and superiority, and it came off super condescending. but if you're just legitimately excited to share your knowledge, that's totally fine.
Even though I consider it myself a casual comic book fan, there are some characters I really like. And usually when I cause play them, I learn more about them from more knowledgeable fans. Thankfully most of my encounter have been positive..
I worked at a comic book store a few years ago and this was a daily occurrence. I hated the aggression, some of the customers couldn't resist the urge to quiz and try to prove that I was less qualified than them to have the job. (probably a big part of why they weren't offered the job in the first place)
I am a girl who likes Star Wars, Marvel, and DC.
It's like when I show interest, I'm suddenly taking SAT GEEK exams.
Lmaoo this explains it perfectly!
This is so damn weird, during my highschool years I'd kill to have at least someone sharing my interests as my friend, let alone a girl (That'd be totally perfect). Looks like there's a huge layer of really entitled geeks who stuck really deep in that time when their hobby has been frown upon.
Oh i relate to this so much! Like ome time i met a guy online and when i told him i liked marvel he started quizzing me on it and turned hostile when i refused to play his games calling me fake
Oh, you like Star Wars? Name literally every Separatist Droid shown on screen in the prequels.
(I'm kidding, I swear.)
Never take it personal, it's much more probable that people just gauge your into it level, because they often get told off or just like the girl in the video , the other side perceives he's "flauting his superiority" , but in reality that's just how pasionate people talk, take anime for an example, every anime fan and the comunity is in constastant civil war due to difering opinions on multiple subjects, and if you are not at that level, or do not understand the interaction , you get the dumb idea this video proposes.
Ana: “it’s 3am here.”
Me watching this on a different continent 3 months later: “shit how did you know?”
I think a lot of gatekeeping comes from insecurity. The idea that people who would have represented your abusers when you were younger are invading the safety of your domain. I didn't really suffer from active bullying, but I went through a lot of my youth feeling a bit outcast. I think that as nerd stuff became popular, there was a feeling that the "popular" people coming in would take over ... then where would I go?
I think I headed that off pretty early and decided that living in fear wasn't a good way to go. Better to be an ambassador and a resource and a friend to the new neighbors in my geek neighborhood.
That and a whole lot of sexism.
Wow, I really enjoyed reading your perspective on this and i never thought about it that way.
Ya i think that it mostly boils down to a lot of guys growing up being teased or harassed by both girls and other guys for having “nerdy” or “geeky” hobbies only to then one day run into someone like that acting as if they’re just one of the fans. They have this knee-jerk emotional reaction of “you don’t get to laugh at me and call me names over my hobbies and then join those same hobbies.”
Its like the cycle of abuse, someone gets hurt solely based on their hobbies who then go on to attack other people based on their perceived connection to the people who hurt them, these people then either get burned by the hobby and leave harboring some level of animosity towards it or feel rejected by the community and follow the hobby in secret.
Also I’d theorize that many “nerdy” activities generally attract somewhat anxious and introverted people due to the fact that these hobbies require less social interaction or social interaction only when you have explicitly joined something (not to many pickup DnD games happening on streets). So for many men it can seem like they’ll never fit in with women or be attractive to them which can lead to a lot of frustration and resentment even if its entirely in their own mind.
@@Mankorra_Gomorrah Very well explained. I’d also add many of these people have a lot of knowledge in these topics but don’t always get to share it with other people (especially women). So when they finally get a girl to hold a conversation about it they take the opportunity to “show off”, because in any other opportunity the other person would either not care or already know just as much.
@@jendubay3782 The sexism probably stems from the fact that a lot of them have been ostracised by women and treated badly by them. They might then develop resentful feelings toward women because they were made to feel terrible about who they are.
I think that you've missed one important source of gatekeeping - fear. A lot of people who suffered for years for their geeky or nerdy interests doesn't want to see the spaces they found for themselves that were welcoming being taken over by the same people who gave them grief for those earlier years. They go to the game store or the comic shop for solace, and to escape the people who gave them trouble but are then seeing more and more people, who they don't know, who might be just as mean as the others, all showing up all of a sudden... yeah, gatekeeping is a sign of fear. It's that exclusivity you were talking about, but not from a sense of elitism, but of fear of being displaced again.
I don't like it, but I don't think dunking on or shaking our heads at the people gatekeeping is doing any good if we ignore what they are saying about their past suffering and only looking at today on it's own.
But just bc you were bullied in high school doesn't mean you get to bully you're people who have a genuine interest in a subject now, it's not specifically yours to guard, it's media, it's meant to be enjoyed by many people, if you can't handle new people in the comics shop you probably need to talk to a therapist about that ya know?
@@bee2874 some like rge feel like gatekeeping is sometimes necesary
I think that’s a you problem it’s weird when people try to control what people can or can’t like things they do. Did u create the series? Did u own the rights of said media? Do u live in a capitalist so society that pushes us all to create stuff for capital and money sake?
exactly how you explained, people are ignoring why gatekeeping is so prevalent. they are afraid people with just a minor interest come into their fandom and change it into something wholly different. Rather than acknowledge that fear they say "its a you problem" or tell you change is good. Almost completely justifying the fear to them
but why do they assume women are their enemy?
Potato Checklist:
⬜ Boil 'em
⬜ Mash 'em
⬜ Stick 'em in a stew
this is exactly the same as the whole "hardcore gamer" vs "casual gamer" nonsense
You understand people literally have no lives. They don’t have a lover or a friend outside of the people as into whatever as them. They don’t watch things that don’t remind or involve the the thing and there houses are like shrines to that thing. It’s not nonsense, there are some people if you don’t play there game they feel completely uncomfortable because they have nothing else to talk about. These people are generally shut ins and you would have no reason to meet one unless you were a friend of a friend. But frankly your dismissive attitude insinuates a whole group of people don’t exist or matter and that seems really somber to me.
@DorjeDriftwood I think you are reading too far into a general comment on the exclusionary side of the gaming world. Casual gamer is used as an insult by people who consider them more hardcore.
The takeaway I more had was the people should like what they like and not worry about what other people like to the point of denigrating others.
The cruel irony in it is that its the same attitude that "normies" take up to denigrate nerds. Its sad when people who actually like at least some of the same things wind up abusing eachother. Kind of a vicious cycle that only ends in self-alienation. We all gotta stick together. The more of us there are, the less alone we'll be.
There is a difference between hardcore and casual and appealing to one can effect the other negatively. If you add too many tutorials to a game you tend to annoy hardcore games who already have an understanding basic game mechanics. Although if you don't cater to casuals on some level a game can become to niche and not make as much money. There are real differences behind these two groups and they exist on a spectrum that people should recognize on some level and actually consider. Some games really should not be made with most casual players in mind like Souls/borne games they have fairly niche audience and dumbing the games down to appeal to a more casual audience would negatively impact those games the audience it's built. Games like Smash Bros kind of appeal to everyone so they can have a more mass appeal and be built for the lowest common denominator. I feel like the casual vs hardcore thing revolves around people refusing to acknowledge issues like this.
@@DarkDamien89 but does any of that matter when you are hanging out at the comic book store? No. And that is the dynamic the guy at the top was talking about.
@@robertblume2951 Hard to say if that was what the original poster was talking about considering they never stated anything beyond "hardcore gamer vs causal gamer nonsense". Kind of think your just inferring something not that wasn't said. Also if your hanging out in a comic store or hobby shop, I can't say I've seen any maliciousness directed at new comers of either gender or skill level at any I've visited around the United States. Everyone I've been to people have been pretty helpful especially when I was getting into Gundams and model painting I got tons of advice . Not saying shit doesn't happen I just haven't seen it.
I feel like practically every girl has gone through an "I'm not like other girls!" sort of mindset as that is basically the ideal that Hollywood portrayed to us.... and guys might have even gone through a "I'm not like other dudes" phase too but well, there aren't really hobby that are simply more for guys or galls
Most guys go through it as well. But demonstrate it more often through physical acts, displays of knowledge or skill (I.E. gatekeepers.) , or any other expression they think will warrant praise, or attention.
"I got you home while you were black out drunk & didn't even take advantage of you!" - a dude who is 'not like the other dudes'
@@gabbyb9418 That's about accurate. A good guy would have just done it and made sure you were safe. A guy unlike any other would let you know he did it.
@@gabbyb9418 Aka a "nice guy".
I present to you... the "Chosen One" trope
found out about this channel today from the manic pixie dream girl video. good job keep up the good work u got urself another subscriber.
Same! ^^
Me too! MPDG was my first, this is my second, haha
same
İ used to be like that for computer science ( my degree). You had to know algorithm analysis, data structures etc to be a "real" engineer. i never thought about that the individual wanted to be. Some people just want to stay a developer, some want to get deeper into subject. Some just were forced into job by peer and family pressure. Took me a while and a couple friends to see this truth.
Ah man, I can completely relate (though on the more pop-culture side of things). I'm glad I also had more level-headed friends who helped highlight just how petty the mindset was. Some people are just into things for different reasons or with different levels of passion. Some prefer being a casual fan or enthusiast. As long as they're gaining a positive experience from it - all should be good and well :)
@@ana-isabel yeah. While it's taught to us that every human has a different history, it's actually begrudgingly hard to apply this to your real life. Just got out the work now and i witnesses my past wrongs committed by my peers and remembered your video and actually used some material from your point of view. Thanks 👍. İt's such a daily occurrence i usually ignore it when it's done by my friends to people i barely know. And i think that's why it's still such a widespread problem. Almost everyone has a rabid gatekeeping friend( i have several for example) and we ignore that because they pressure others we don't care about. Humans are weird.
@@alqualonde2998 or maybe they're not gatekeeping and just hunting for peers.
Pft! Computer science isn't real science.
:)
@@alexdoiron8419 :D i find myself addressing myself as a computer engineer sometimes so I can't disagree
Good research. Like your "reporter" vibe and writing. I guess I would be one gate keeper once you blow up. "I actually follow Ana Isabel since bla bla bla"
Awww ahaha you're sweet! Thanks so much, glad you've been enjoying my content so far! 😊
Same
Like Billie Eilish fans
Haha same and I’m scared to be that one person who’s like, i was there before she blew up lmao
@@resonnjeri6334 skghkk omg-
I remember being this - at uni in my sci-fi club we had an “inner circle”, which I always felt was wrong. I usually did my best to get as many people as possible to feel welcome. Some people just wanted to come watch stuff and didn’t want to get into the swamp of being a “real fan” and hour long debates on the most minor aspects of the given franchise or book. And that’s okay. After some time I noticed some people becoming really elitist and I tried to stay away from them - I joined the community to feel accepted not to make others feel the way I did previously. Elitism is the worst and can fuck right off
Great video, looking forward to more!
Haha funny enough, I experienced this same thing in one of my movie clubs at uni too. And having been a pop culture fanatic for years now, I sadly still see it way too often (and typically at its worst online 🙄). Some people tend to be more passionate than others, and that's fine - but I don't get why it has to get to a point of putting the other beneath you. It's gross and you're absolutely right - it can fuck right off haha 👌
Thank you so much for watching - hope you enjoy the rest of my channel! ✨
Being elitist about elitism classic. What Uni, is this uni high in so cal?
Hate to break it to you there isn’t a social gathering in existence which doesn’t have an inner circle. It doesn’t have anything to do with being a nerd.
@@dorjedriftwood2731 are you ever meet with a group of hardcore metal fans, they are way worst with casual fans.
@@ErikRicardoLC lol intense music for intense people
"Some people just wanted to come watch stuff and didn’t want to get into the swamp of being a “real fan” and hour long debates on the most minor aspects of the given franchise or book"
so why would you want them in the "inner circle"? why cant the hardcore fans have their own space? youre the elitist.
That is my brother with anything japanese... He makes me feel like not worthy... like "you have not read the 6000 issues from this manga so you cannot have an opinion on this anime"
Almost like If he put all that time I cannot just come and like it. I love torturing him giving my opinions. But seriously, I've come across that kinda people.
Bahahaha I'd probably do the same. Honestly I feel like the best way to deal with these interactions is to troll the person right back. 😆 You don't owe it to them to prove yourself, so might as well have fun being the "annoying normie" lol 😛
@Tom Ffrench That would be the best revenge
Some Anime just suck compared to their 400+ issue manga/manwha (God of Highschool being a prime example)
Not to be a gatekeeper, but Anime is far from "anything Japanese." If you visit Japan with only the knowledge of 6,000 manga under your belt, you're going to be in for a big surprise when you find out that the majority of the population of Japan doesn't even watch anime, and will probably think you're weird and annoying if you try to talk to them about it.
Spit in his face and burn his manga
There was one aspect of gatekeeping you missed (or I missed in the video). If I'm bullied and finally find a place to escape, I'll naturally be a bit distressed when I see my bullies follow me there.
FUCK YES!
That's fair but some of us join fandoms with a background in equally dorky endeavors that we were bullied for as well (such as musical theatre in my case). Sooooo there's some peeps that feel your pain too. Just a different perspective ;)
I always find the mind set of "I lived through shit so now you have to" a really odd one. The idea that you suffered as a nerd, so now those who are getting into it without years of bullying don't deserve it is such backwards thinking. I was bullied incessantly as a kid for the usual outsider shit, but I still fully embrace anyone who shows even the slightest bit of interest in things I love. I don't care if they're the biggest fan or 'good' at a certain game or whatever, so long as they've got a spark of curiosity. For instance I had a friend who was interested in one of my all time favourite games, Bloodborne, but wasn't great at gaming due to inexperience, so I ended up playing co-op with them the entire game and helping them through the maps and bosses, and they loved it! Surely that's always the better approach than "lol git gud, ur not a real fan unless u solo the entire game!"
It reminds me of a guy I used to work with, we once had a staff christmas meal somewhere and he treated the waitstaff like dog shit. I questioned why he was so rude and he said something along the lines of "I used to wait tables and was treated like shit the entire time, so I'm passing it along" and it just had me like ??? Why pass on the abuse and continue the cycle?! (Don't worry, I and a few others apologised to the waitress and we tipped her heavily after).
It's not that they want non-nerds to experience bullying. The nerds just don't want to have to accept EVERYONE and ANYONE when other groups aren't held to the same standard. Why the hell is it OK for jocks not to accept EVERYONE and ANYONE, but nerds MUST accept ANYONE and EVERYONE into their clique? It would be like if I, a white high school student, expected the black girl clique and the Hispanic girl clique and the Asian girl clique and the black boy clique and the Hispanic boy clique etc. to accept me, but when the Hispanic girls turn and say to me, "Sorry, we just want to keep our own all-Hispanic girl group from getting too large. We have a comfy, cozy safe-space here where we can all speak Spanish to each other and talk about the latest telenovelas without having to waste time explaining for 30 minutes the characters and plot to some white girl who has never watched a telenovela in her entire life", I become enraged at the Hispanic girl group, saying that they MUST accept me even though I'm not Hispanic, but when a Hispanic girl tried to join my white girl clique, we ignore her and not allow her to join. So why is it OK for the white girl clique to not accept any non-white girls, but it is WRONG for the Hispanic girl clique to not accept any Hispanics? It is because whites have a sense of entitlement. They think whites are entitled to everything and non-whites should never be allowed to be entitled to the same things white people are. Same with these teenybopper and jocks. They think that the nerds should bend over backwards to accommodate them, be polite to them, allow them to attend their LAN-parties and Star Trek conventions, but if a nerd shows up to a jock house party at the frat house, or at some bimbo event at the sorority house, the nerd gets the door slammed in their nerdy face! How the heck is that not a double-standard? Actually, I think the racial comparison may have been more applicable in the 1950s compared to nowadays. Nowadays, you get Asians from Korea and screaming "racism!" if white countries don't allow them to mass immigrate, even though South Korea accepts zero refugees of any race, if I recall correctly. These Asian immigrants will take white employers to the human rights tribunal to sue them for racial discrimination if they don't hire them, yet I have heard many stories about Asian bosses who takeover a company that used to have a white boss and immediately lay off or fire all the white employees they can and immediately only hire Asians of their own national heritage in their place. Or if they start their own company from scratch, they will only hire people of their own ethnicity. Whenever I see a company that has a diverse mix of employees racially, I automatically assume that the boss or hiring manager is a white person. I see so many companies in Western countries where 100% of the employees are Chinese, or 100% of the employees are Korean, or 100% of the employees are Punjabi Sikhs, etc.
Although I deplore Gatekeeping I empathise that in recent history the complaint is that newcomers are not just joining their niche cultures but are looking to change it to be more inclusive. Even though most of the changes demanded are benevolent in spirit when the nerds/geeks don’t welcome those changes they are labelled toxic. Just say for instance I wanted to get into romantic comedies and insisted there be more fight scenes and explosions there would inevitably be push back.
I don't think that's a fair comparison. If you wanted explosions and fighting there were tons of media to cater to that niche. But someone who wanted LGBT representation in a superhero comic that wasn't stereotypical, quickly killed off, or barely even acknowledged to begin with, it's taken until recently to have it happen.
Unless you mean movies heavy on romance _and_ fight scenes, which hell yeah, I'd be down for that.
@@LAZY-RUBY a part of the problem with wanting more representation in things like comics is the way it comes about. a very important fact that must always be addressed is that there is a class of people in control of, well a lot of things, that are just kinda dumb and shallow. so rather than some new character or new direction that tell good stories, we got iceman randomly turning gay, when he had a long line of female romantic interactions. not discovering he was bi, which actually could have worked the friendship he had with long time gay character northstar (usually well written, but c list at best), but nope, whole time he's been gay. and it's only just made people mad, for being a stupid change and for being obvious pandering and not resulting in any good stories.
comics are a bad example to bring up though. those guys have done nothing but chase trends more and more since the dark age spawned the dark knight returns and watchmen.
We never wanted to be part of the “in crowd” , we wanted to escape and be left alone. That’s why gatekeeping exists.
Plus when a bunch of chuds come in and bring in their shit ideas of how a thing should be and ruin said thing, it makes you resentful of outsiders
You missed a major if not the primary reason for gate keeping...which is "protecting" the interest/hobby from being fundamentally changed...Often when an interest that was on the edges gets pulled to the center it is watered down or altered to pander to a broader audience...
You can see that we The Marvel Universe under Disney to some small extent.
everyone always forgets or ignores this point cause it can very well be a point in favor of gatekeeping
Guy Gardner is a pretty great character though.
you mean 'one-punch' guy gardner ?? all depends on the writing, which was pretty great in Justice League International lol.
I love your channel!
I was genuinely surprised he's going to be the main in the new series. But hey I'm up for it
While this is very much a real thing, I've also been through the complete opposite kinda.
When I was like 14 I was a lonely nerd super into Invader Zim and being desperate for kinship I got super excited when I saw a girl in school wear a t-shirt with GIR on it and went up them all like "omg I love Invader Zim!" and she and her friends just looked like I was a weirdo, "uh what?", and before I could awkwardly try to explain myself they'd walked away giggling.
And I guess that's just what happens when a character is better known for their face being on Hot Topic t-shirts than for being a major character in a tv show that never got aired in your country.
Damn i feel your pain. That's like seeing some one in a band t-shirt and thinking they also like the band only to find out theyre wearing it cause a tik toker they watch wears the same shirt
The opposite of what you went through happens to me frequently. I've memorized every episode of Invader Zim, draw my own OC's, and read all the comics. I was also also a fan of Metalocalypse, and I've memorized all the episodes and listen to every Dethklok album on a loop. And when Rick and Morty came out, after seeing the preview before the series premiere, I was hooked. This show was exactly what I needed as Metalocalypse and Regular Show were ending and R&M was the perfect show to fit that huge Invader Zim sized hole in my heart.
But every time I go out in public wearing my many Invader Zim or Rick and Morty shirts (or my one Dethklok shirt) some metalhead neckbeard dude is all like "I bet she's never seen the show and she only likes GIR/Pickle Rick because of Hot Topic" and every time I'm like BITCH WHAT
Also Rick and Morty fans and Metalocalypse fans *really* hate when you compare the humor of their shows to that of Invader Zim or Regular Show and I'm all like IT'S THE SAME HUMOR INVADER ZIM WALKED SO ADULT SWIM CAN RUN
Got this randomly suggested and I must say: I thought I was watching content made by someone who has hundreds of thousands of followers. I was shocked when I saw you only have 300ish subs. You have very high quality content I really think you'll blow up soon!
This made my night - thank you! 😊 Fingers crossed for that haha, though it's been a blast with what audience I've built so far. Really glad you've enjoyed my content, got plenty more underway :)
Yeah, I caught her Manic Pixie Dream Girl video where she's at about 3k. I'm like.... REALLY? Well that's a crying shame, but hey, in on the ground floor for me! Woot! Nice vids. Keep it up!
This also randomly appeared in my feed. Great content! Excited to binge the rest!
Yeah really strange that TH-cam would send this to me given my demographics almost like there’s an agenda. No thanks I’ll take the firing squad let the true believers have the world.
@@Thessalin me too! Loving the content! Great writing, editing, presentation, she looks great too! The works!
Id also say a nerd would have to have some level of intelligence, like being a math nerd, but a geek doesn't have to be textbook smart at all-Theyre just "unhip."
That's how it was used when I was a kid. You wouldn't be called a "nerd" if you weren't in the upper level classes.
That's the way I've always seen it too.
Nerds are the people that know a little bit about everything. Like, literally.
Geeks are more specified.
There are nerds with geeky interests, and geeks sometimes nerd out over theory on their topic interests (which is more specified). Sometimes people are a cool nerd/geek hybrid and have the brain power of all sorts of info.
Being a dork is what makes you an outcast. Dorks have socially stunted tendencies and can be extremely awkward in social settings. Or just unbelievably clumsy or do a lot of silly things that come out of nowhere or don't make sense. Note: you CAN be an extreme of all 3 Nerd/Geek/Dork categories. It's possible. Those are some seriously misunderstood enigmas.
From my perspective, people were classically bullied it became a personal escape for a group (I'm into 40k , aircraft , bicycle engineering) . When things become popular it no longer becomes that personal escape away from the world .
When they have lived for 15 years or possibly more of ridicule for their interests only for them to become wide spread accepted , it can be great , but it also means that the small cosy niche that was theirs is now gone .
While it is great that younger fans of a sub culture no longer face that same exclusion from wider society it may cause older fans to feel just as left out .
How has your experience for 40k group and gatekeeping?
I've mostly had just cliqueish behavior (snubbing), but our city also is notable for being very passive aggressiveness.
@@carnivoriousleaf until they knew me it was lots of questions seeing how much I knew , using lots of in joke humour . What maybe broke the ice was how I acted towards younger players that went to that store . I treated kids like adults and with respect . I also didn't hide that there was much I didn't know .
I get it but I think it can still be ur thing but for urself and the few folks who feel as passionate about it. We don’t need other people’s approval for what we love or not
@@markigirl2757 that can be true until the newer influx start to push you out of social side for not being "cool" enough for them.
It's something nit just in 40K ect but I've seen it in cycling clubs , sport clubs and many other hobbies . The spirit of camaraderie is sucked out of a passtime . Which sucks (or blows , which ever the hip kids are saying these days)
2:13 Lowkey triggered me because once I was having a conversation where I mentioned I like some 90's/00's punk bands like Green Day and 3 Doors Down and the people I was talking to immediately said they weren't punk. When I asked what genre they were, I was given no answer. It's almost as if music has lots of subgenres and bands that blend multiple genres together.
Punk music=awesome
Punk “fans”=the worst
I was one of them in highschool. It was sad
The good punk message boards have a "no Green Day" rule, purely because mentioning them always turned conversations toxic.
I remember having this experience all the way back to junior high. I was so excited to find a little crew of people who were super into LOTR like I was, but when I came in wanting to geek out with them, they started peppering me with questions about the Silmarilion and seeing if I knew which gods originally sent the different wizards to middle earth. There were even these two girls who would speak to each other in elvish when they wanted to exclude me. Looking back it sounds hilarious to have a hierarchy like that based on something so meaningless but this is very relatable. Great vid. Loved your MPDG one too. Deff Subscribing.
That exhausting feeling when you cant enjoy a game because you have to explain common lingo and mechanics/tactics/stat builds to the new guy you invited to play with your group because you wanted to be nice... The opposite can be just as unpleasant...
You can't call yourself a geek if you're not biting the heads off of live chickens.
Truer words never spoken
I see what you did there
Growing up in the 80's and being a young adult in the 90's, all I heard was, "Uhhh, I wish more girls read comic books and liked Sci Fi." And now they do and all I hear is, "Uhhh, I'm sick of all these fake geek girls." It makes me want to flip every table.
It's cos back then too many Britney Spears type bimbos would put on non prescriptive glasses and go "look, I'm a nerd now, but I'm also hot so I'm a cool nerd" . They also jacked goth culture
Wanting more people to care about a thing isn’t the same as wanting it to be mainstream and no longer the thing you loved. That’s why. Speaking as a geeky girl.
Girl, you are so right. As a girl, I also felt like gatekeeping my fandoms several times--fairly recently, too. I'll try to be more open from now on. As you said, the positives outweigh the negatives. Thank you for opening my mind :)
Thank *you* for listening to my take! I think there's that tendency/temptation to gatekeep among all us geeks, but I've found that letting people in and sharing what I love has led to more friendships, interesting convos, and bonding experiences than if I were to simply judge/dismiss them for not being as knowledgeable.
My friend called me out for gatekeeping and I'm glad she did. It made me realize my own insecurities was making me sound like a jerk and I've been trying to just be supportive of my friends and what they like, even if they don't like a certain thing as much as I do.
if they dont like it as much as you, then you werent gatekeeping. they didnt like the thing as much as you.
@@luc410 People are still allowed to like a thing without knowing every single thing about it.
@@Spamhard if someone tells you youre not allowed to like something, for whatever insane reason that actually happens, you dont have to listen to them.
@@luc410 thats literally what gatekeeping is. telling someone not to gatekeep doesn’t mean you’re telling them not to like it
@@Sarah-ue1ew if you dont know as much about a thing, and someone else does, and they tell you whats up about the thing, thats not gatekeeping. thats someone whos more informed and involved telling you whats up.
There's a small part of me that sort of gets the gatekeeping mentality. For a lot of guys, nerd culture wasn't something that was enjoyed at Comic-con with friendly people sharing your interest, it was something that you enjoyed with a small circle of friends while many other people shunned or berated you for being so odd. Now that it has blown up and become popular, part of me can understand the impulse to say, "No. We suffered for this. You go play football or shop at the mall or whatever. This is ours."
On the other hand, part of me understands the impulse to steal an expensive car and take a joy ride out to Vegas for a weekend. That doesn't make it remotely acceptable.
Elitism is everywhere; music, literature, cinema, athletics, anything. Sooo why is nerd culture always the fall guy for this?
The worst are Portland cyclists
I would say a big part of it is that nerd culture encompasses a lot of things since it is more of just being very passionate about something that is more out of the norm. Everything you mentioned except athletics could be considered nerd culture. Another thing would be the rise of nerd culture with a lot of things becoming much more normalized so elitism happens much more often and is the most prevalent example of this.
@@leahbeah1585 In your reply you misunderstand what is commonly termed nerd culture. It has come to mean specifically liking certain intellectual properties, perhaps moreso than how these IPs are engaged with.
In fact, you can see the elitism of cinephiles in how they would mock anyone lining up to watch the latest MCU or SW flick. This is the difference between what you would call a cinema nerd from a member of nerd culture engaging with the cinema.
But this still doesn't really answer the question of why members of nerd culture are regularly criticised for elitism over the elitism displayed pretty much anywhere else. Seems to me that some people are jerks and some people aren't; and neither jerks or non-jerks are drawn to or avoid certain hobbies 🤷🏻♂️
@@KaustandthePukachus you mean movie nerds make fun of comic book nerds and normies? Yes people are jerks but that isn't gatekeeping.
I think a part of this is the peculiar way in which the status of nerd culture has risen. The people who used to be at the bottom are now at the top, and a lot of people who would have been "normies" in the past are now calling themselves geeks/nerds. What I mean is, if being a nerd were still stigmatized, these people would not admit to having nerdy interests. They would hide it in order to get along more smoothly with whatever the mainstream culture was, unlike the older generation of nerds who suffered and were bullied for their interests.
So there is understandably some resentment from the OG nerds that fad-chasers and nerds who are "normie-passing" are encroaching on their territory, and that leads to the gatekeeping discussed in the video. But ALSO, there is a lot of pushback from these "normie-passing" groups because there's this idea that the nerd subculture should be an easy one to join and automatically gain acceptance in. We're still in the midst of a status change, so the view of nerds is that they are both cool and uncool. Part of society still thinks nerds are pushovers and should be grateful anyone (especially if they're traditionally attractive or socially skilled) wants to be part of this group. Nerds are NOT elite in this view - they're the bullied kids at the bottom of the barrel - so they have no RIGHT to an elitist attitude. Elitists in other fields are more likely to be perceived as experts, and those groups would require a lot of effort and in-depth knowledge to join.
(Or, basically, ex-bullies see that the kid they used to bully is now super-cool and think it's their right to plant themselves into the new cool clique and are extremely offended when met with suspicion/rejection.)
That opening green latnern bit was dead accurate and made me want to rip my hair out. Good job. Some people really mistake the stuff they love for their own identity.
I think that's the core of it! many people are missing an identity these days and will latch to ill-adviced choices.
Screw gatekeeping, as a life long weeb, you're always welcome to get into anime. I'll gladly give good recommendations to anyone willing to give my favorite medium a try
okay! I'm rediscovering Anime after a long time being turned off by the people surrounding it (and me).
I loved Akira and Ghost in the Shell, Ninja Scroll, Eva and such... and I'm currently hunting 80's stuff to watch with my girl who is new to it all, but we'll watch new stuff if it's good (as in: not generic and predictable or badly drawn). I started her on the above and she really liked it!
We recently watched and enjoyed Patlabor, Black Magic M-66, Asobi Asobase, High Score Girl, One Punch Man, Paprika, some Ghibli stuff (we'll watch all of those), Utena, Rin and maybe a few others I forget now.
She didn't enjoy Lain or Hokuto No Ken (but we watched the broken confusing movie).
Got any tips? Classics are very welcome, old and new, with a preference for short runs, as we like rich story arcs that begin and end.
@@MadsterV If you want an interesting 80's movie, Tenshi no Tamago and Vampire Hunter D are classics. If you liked GitS, check out the Stand Alone Complex anime series.
Since I didn't see you mention it, Cowboy Bebop is a must watch for every anime fan. If you like shounen action anime, Full Metal Alchemist: Brotherhood and Hunter x Hunter are both excellent(but kinda long).
If you want something quiet and contemplative, check out Mushishi or Kino no Tabi. If you want a show that's really fun, check out Space Dandy, each episode is made by a different director so you never know what you'll get.
And if you want my number one tip for watching anime, there is nothing wrong with dropping a series that you're not into, the 3 episode rule a decent approach to giving anime a chance to see if you like it or not.
As a lifelong punk, I concur. I'd also point you to where the lpcal shows are.
@@retrofuture1989 Thanks! I don't feel bad about dropping a series, I feel bad about the time I spent on it. It usually takes just 3 episodes to decide if we like it though, didn't know that was a rule!.
I have Cowboy Bebop on my queue, and I heard a lot about Full Metal Alchemist back then, but didn't know about Hunter x Hunter, Mushishi or Kino no Tabi. Space Dandy sounds right up my alley. Thanks!
@MadsterV Tbh the 3 episode rule is pretty arbitrary but many follow it to give an anime a fair chance, personally I'm a little more quick to drop something since I've seen so much. Hopefully at least one of my recommendations is suitable to your tastes, pretty much everything I've recommended is well regarded amongst general anime fans.
For a lot of today's gatekeepers, nerd culture and fandoms were safe spaces where they were free to be themselves without fear of harassment or rejection. They see the mainstreaming of their interests and the influx of new fans as the forced erosion of that safe space. Ironically, many of those gatekeepers are the same people who'll attack other marginalized groups for wanting their own safe spaces.
You hit the nail on the coffin.
That's the way it is with humans. The persecuted become the persecutors. The guy who was forgiven a huge debt then strangles the guy who owes him a few bucks.
82jp oh that’s true. It’s the triangle of victimhood
@50 dig Nobody made anything hard for nobody...can I say that black men made basketball hard for me...or women made dating impossible for me? Or maybe I suck at basketball and dating...or I have little interest on both.
@@82jp But in this case, nerds were never "forgiven" anything. They never got cool themselves. It's their interests that were seen as cool. The nerds, the people, were considered unimportant. No one cares about them at all. Many nerds are not persecuting as payback. The serious exponents simply stay off the mainstream beaten path just like the more interesting and authentic entertainment and restaurants to be far away from the tourist locations.
Most of the fans of star trek when the series first aired were women and these fans were the reason the show even got a 3rd season!
They also invented fanfiction!
Thank you for the deep dive. As a guy who loves cars, motorcycles, and outdoor stuff; but also computers, video games, and comic books..I've often been ostracized by 'both sides'. In the past, gatekeeping in deep nerdom was really effective, seeing others (esp anyone other than cis-men) bullied out- pushed me along with them.
Looking at others as neighbors rather than foes seems to be the way forward. I'm thankful for normalisation, as long as content creators (especially game / movie studios) don't overly dilute their content to garner mass appeal. My (perhaps our) enjoyment requires a certain level of specificity and it feels like that's become increasingly lacking in the last decade.
I always feel so uncomfortable around "nerds" because I often hung out with them, but never quite fit in. But the biggest nerds I know were girls, and the sexism bites as a result.
One thing though, I think the greatest thing that propelled geekdom to mainstream is the internet. You look for whatever niche you fit in, and find out there are a lot more people who love it than you previously thought. Have these people grow up and get a disposable income, and they meet up and throw money at their interest.
Nerd guys are more often than not, worse than chads when it comes to how they think of women. But they just have less charm, confidence and social skills. They are usually just as aggressive and have the same need to be hyper-masculine, only they are more bitter.
soooooo male nerds are still men, then? just with less social skills?
Try listing to this sort of talk happening around you and being told you are literally expendable in a war or just an altercation you’re gonna be the one chosen to die, also grow up with peers who will beat you and harass you mercilessly and fathers who have been to war and have zero time for your feelings and try and get through life without at least appearing confident.
Just read the endless one sided criticism in these comments, you think dudes don’t hear this stuff constantly. Without exaggeration it is not unusual to be told your sexual assignment is the cause of every problem in the world. You think that you’re gonna get through all that without pushing your chest out and at least pretending you believe in yourself. My question is how do women ever get painted as being empathetic. I’ve been hospitalized without my mother even calling me and my mom is one of the nicest women I’ve ever met. Sorry but you can’t tell us to just wither up and die because those are our options, you either defiantly ignore the constant stress of simultaneously vilified, relied upon and told your on your own or you wither up and die. There isn’t some third option as a man where you act kind and reserved not til your seventy and your own welfare with grandkids.
Growing up as a boy you meet really successful men like incredibly wealthy and powerful and they are all confident as heck. And it’s painfully obvious that they are successful because of their confidence and not the other way around because when they talk people listen other men listen. You don’t see a successful guy that doesn’t believe in himself, so even if you don’t believe in yourself you try to fake it because you know the cold hard truth of there is only one way this brutal world isn’t going to kill me.
So by all means criticize men for trying to cope. A man tried opening the US first and only battered men’s shelter, woman’s group protested and financially ruined him til he killed himself, look it up if you care to. He was attacked just for trying to do something nice for other men. That’s our world. Men are over confident because we want to survive.
@@dorjedriftwood2731 The part about the men's shelter is just false, there are several men's shelters in the US and the first one to ever open is still active in Arkansas. It's in the first page of google search. And why would women protest against it, feminism is for more equal treatment, so toxic behaviors as what you described that end up hurting men are less prevalent. Makes literally no sense. Hope it's just misinformation and not malicious in intent.
@@dorjedriftwood2731 Being a massive Jerk doesn't make you a men, Being jerk doesn't have boundaries lol. I have notice that usually very smart men who don't give a fuck what society tells them what they suppose to be, are the one that are pretty chill, they can be nerds, geeks, Artist or athletes. I look up to those guys cuz they are literally the coolest people out there. Same when it women...
@@dorjedriftwood2731 you can be kind and reserved at any age. If you have strength or strength of character you can exercise it how ever you please. Being confident doesn't mean always being a bragging asshole or berating people for their lack of knowledge on a specific subject.
If you've ever seen the sheer volume of extremely detailed fanfiction on ao3 you will know that "geek girls" don't mess around
HAHAHAH ikr?
"Im not a nerd. Nerds are smart" Milhouse, the Simpsons
If nerd culture was born out of a marginalized group then the problem with cosplay models is exploiting a marginalized community to sell a product--commodification. It's a problem every marginalized group has. How many commercials do we see selling "women's" products that advertise using feminism to sell it's products--thereby commodifying the struggles of women for capitalistic gains. It's quite American to turn any marginalized group into a product.
"Nerd Culture" mostly revolves around consumer culture in the first place, though.
If your "culture" is defined by the mass-produced products you like to consume--e.g. movies, comic books, video games, TV shows--then it's "commodified" from the get-go. It's not really an actual culture so much as a marketing demographic.
Maybe the particular type of product you're part of a fan subculture about is less popular than some other types of product, but that doesn't make you "marginalized". It just makes you what advertising industry people call a "niche market."
In any case, it's really not comparable to the kind of marginalization that some people suffer on the basis of their ethnicity, gender, or sexual orientation.
The problem with someone putting superficial feminist slogans in a commercial for shampoo or whatever is that it's dishonest. It's not a gesture of real support for real feminism, because real feminism has nothing to do with buying shampoo--it's about political action aiming to change social institutions so they stop infringing on people's basic rights.
That's fundamentally different from a publishing company going to a convention of people who are there to talk about how much they like buying one type of media product and advertising another, related media product that those people might also like to buy.
I mean, is it even possible to have a comic con where no one is allowed to advertise anything? Advertising is the whole point of those events. What is there to do at one besides talk to people about things they either want to sell or want to buy?
And there's nothing dishonest about saying "Hey, if you like buying Spider-Man comic books, maybe you'd also like to buy this Spider-Man video game."
@@macdeus2601 totally fair critique. I was using marginalized how it was presented in the video, that geek culture came from social outcasts who then attached themselves to things like comics or video games. Perhaps it's more an issue of everything becoming mainstream. No they are not marginalized the same, I'm speaking more to how some might feel marginalized after those participants in nerd culture were bullied for such things for so long before becoming mainstream. Personally the one that bothers me is The Big Bang Theory where nerd culture is played for laughs.
Also keep in mind that the LGBT community has been going through similar issues with navigating corporate sponsors for pride parades.
@@dracopalidine "Who THEN attached themsleves to things..."???!!! No, I was an anime and comic book fan BEFORE entering high school. I only started getting ostracized in high school. I wasn't really ostracized in elementary school.
Me who wears lots of band shirts and marvel and graphic tees: **nods in sadness**
I was at an Opeth (metal band) concert with my boyfriend and when we were in line for the event, this group of dudes in front of us was like... apologizing to me for my boyfriend bringing me? And saying "Oh did your boyfriend drag you here? Sorry, you're not going to like this music at all." and it turned to them gatekeeping me and saying I probably don't even listen to them... IN LINE AT A CONCERT I PAID FOR? My bf shut that shit down and was like "She listens to them more than I do, actually. We both like the band." It wasn't the last time I had a similar experience, and it def opened his eyes to how shitty it is when you're a woman that shows interest in something.
Ikr
Gate keeping is a whole different level in the metal community....
The comment I was looking for haha
Of all the metal genres out there, deathcore and metalcore are the worst culprits. I literally was quizzed about the history of FUCKING UNDEROATH even though I didn't listen to every song they've made. And everytime I wear any of my deathcore/metalcore shirts (apparently chuds really hate when women wear Of Mice & Men, I Prevail, Job for a Cowboy, and Infant Annihilator shirts) everyone always asks me if I really listen to them or if it's just some instagram vsco egirl trend. NAH I LOVES ME SOME DEATHCORE.
And what's worse is when people call it "screamo" which is an entire genre completely
Once I was walking down the street with a Deadpool shirt, minding my own business and a guy literally stopped me to ask me if I knew what my shirt was and if I had only seen the movies or if I had read the comics. Excuse me WHAT?
Reminds me of when i was sitting in the train minding my own business having my hair shaved off and a guy kept challenging me about why i wear my hair that way - or was it 5 times with different guys? Anyways, face masks and social distancing are such a blessing against male entitlement to question our motives on literally anything without even knowing us. I can finally threaten to call the police when strange men come too close to me and bother me because they think i was made only for their enjoyment without being considered a crazywoman.
I think you should have pepper-sprayed that guy. It's an accurate response to him for overstepping this way. Amongst men, this behaviour would also justify violence and using violence against another guy blocking a mans path for no reason would also stand as self-defense in any court. Only when women defend their rights, that's where it's considered "hysterical".
If i were you, i would have slapped him right in the spot. Seriously, what the hell??
As a used to be gatekeeper myself, there is still much that upsets me about things I love becoming mainstream. For instance, when a long standing storyline gets truncated and sometimes normal washed to appeal to a wider audience. Watering down the original source. Not a problem with the casual fan, but with the attempt to squeeze every penny out a medium.
That's fair! I'm worried about the main fandom I belong to becoming sanitized and commercialized as it becomes more popular, but I also want my community to continue to draw in and welcome wholesome, creative, and enthusiastic newbies.
By my view the "fake geek girl" thing really blew up when ads were running on places like G4 and Spike TV where you could pay to have "sexy" girls play video games with you online.
This is also when E3 started being available on TV which lead to an explosion in "Booth Babes"
So if you were a teenage boy in the early 2000's you would see these "fake geek girls" all over TV and media.
This is a really excellent point. When I hear fake geek girl I picture a model licking a controller. Which was basically those ads back then.
There is a point here is how a failed attempt at commodifying nerd culture from those outside the culture bred this view of women in the space.
@@_synthicyde I should be clear. In no way am i defending people that try to gate keep women from Nerd or Geek groups. I'm just saying that early 2000's predatory marketing to male Nerds/Geeks/Gamer may have something to do with the rise of not trusting women in the fanbases.
Gate keeper: "Hey do you like burgers?"
Me: "yeah I love em"
Gate keeper: "oh so you know the whole history and methods of making them?"
Me: "no I just like eating them"
Gate keeper: "ohh so you're not a REAL fan then"
One aspect of this that I don't really see anyone talking about relates to Learned Helplessness, the idea that people will learn from repeated failure to not bother trying in the first place. I'm a socially awkward geek whose experience growing up taught me to be distrusting of people who appeared to be friendly, in to the same things I am, or even just nice, as I found it was often just a setup for bullying. I know a great many people who had similar experiences, and to one extent or another we have all learned to see kind strangers who seem to like the same things we do as threats until proven otherwise. Some gatekeeping may just be a self-defense mechanism against a perceived future threat. (Still toxic and stupid, but understanding can be helpful.)
There's also the fact that geeks, especially male comic book geeks, love to argue. Usually loudly, with a bit of knowledge, a lot of ignorance, and a tremendous amount of imaginative bullshit, and it can be very off-putting to anyone not used to it (and very tiring to just everyone).
That last statement is very true-I can’t count the times I walked into my LCS in the middle of an argument/debate about the day’s latest geek drama.
Comic geeks have always been a very opinionated group. That’s something that’s rarely addressed in the correct light. And I think some ppl take it the wrong way.
Of course, I never engaged in those types of debates. Obviously.
That could explain why they get bullied and ostracized in the first place but they are so unaware and miserable they have this “victim mentality” that prevents them from truly understanding why
@@markigirl2757 Ugh, I hate people like you who pretend that looksism doesn't exist and that the only reason why nerds are ostracized by the majority of students is becasue of their personality. The fact that 100% of the students in both the girl nerd clique and the boy nerd clique at my high school were the most physically unattractive students is just a coincidence?!?! Really??? You think that the fact that my clique had both the tallest, gangliest boy and girls, and the shortest guy, and the most overweight girls are just a coincidence, and the real reason for them being ostracized is becasue they have a bad personality??? I even once said I was a nerd, and some in-crowd guy said, "No, I know of 3 guys who think you're hot!". He seemed to think that nerd=physically unattractive. This is why I think that anyone who is conventionally physically unattractive will be considered a nerd and ostracized by the majority of people under the age of 30 (because age 30 is when the majority of people will have finished the maturation process of pruning the dendrites of their prefrontal cortex of their brain). Anyways, it just really annoys me how the teenyboppers/bimbos/dumb jocks never take responsibility for their bad morals and admit that they ostracize people for no other reason than being too tall, too short, too fat, too lanky, acne, buck teeth, horse face, etc. Just admit it!
I am guilty of Gatekeeping myself, and when it happens it is trigger when something I hold dear to my identity (D&D in my case) is clearly been use for a cheap publicity stuns or for money.... it feels like my identity is diminish by the misappropriation of the geek/nerd thing or fandom.
Not gonna lie, Catwoman is one of my favorite movies of all time. It brought me great joy to see you reference it in any terms beyond "worst movie of the year". I just liked having a movie where the main lady character didn't end up with a guy because she was too happy on her own LOL
Also, I can tell I'm going to binge watch your videos for a bit LOL very good
Omg yes! I remember when I was young, Catwoman was everything to me. She was badass and I totally wanted to be her. It was only when I grew up and actually found out about the comics and her origin, I realized just how shit the 2004 movie was, both in terms of faithfullness and just as movie overall. However, I still love the shit out of that movie for what it is: a nostalgic bit of dumb entertainment.
Great video, but I noticed that the whole analysis of gatekeeping has been primarily through an interpersonal lens when I think the public lens is a more interesting topic that hasn’t been explored. Yes nerd culture has become more mainstream, but has that been to the nerd’s benefit or at their expense? Has nerd culture become popular, or been co-opted and appropriated for profit? Has the nerd moniker been adopted by the nerd’s former abusers, or has the nerd merely been transformed into a different kind of outcast? I don’t know the answer to these questions but I think there’s a strong case to be made for the latter option in each scenario. A perfect example is the way that Hollywood still treats animators and special effects crews, more “nerdy” professions, versus the more popular celebrities despite using nerd culture to make money. Seth Rogen’s film “Sausage Party” involved abusive work practices such as coerced unpaid overtime for all the animators on the project, yet Seth Rogen didn’t even see fit to comment on it.The special effects team behind “Life of Pi” went under due to a complete destruction of their company by Hollywood’s nasty business practices. When attempting to honor the workers who lost their jobs after “Life of Pi” he was cut off by the music so we could get to the more sexy awards. At the 2020 Oscars Rebel Wilson and James Corden actively blamed the overworked special effects crew for how bad Cats was rather than the asinine decision to use rotoscoped cat animations in the first place; he received raucous applause for that statement. When James Franco hosted the Academy Awards there was a special acknowledgement for special effects workers where the camera panned over all of them...than James Franco said with a derisive sneer, “congratulations neeeerds!”
I understand that I’m pointing out mostly Hollywood here, but I am worried about the Hollywoodification of most things. As an avid gamer, the rise of the “movie game” popularized by Naughty Dog has been very worrisome to me, and the new Uncharted movie and Last of Us series I’ll admit I kind of want to fail since I only see Hollywood making gaming worse. The examples I put forward above though are indicative of something. The mainstream rise of nerd culture has not been an acceptance of nerds, it’s been an acceptance of the culture. The undesirable nerds themselves are afraid that they will have no place in it. We can see it in the way these animators and VFX artists are treated. They’re just as creative and important as the actors, yet they can be derided for their accomplishments at an awards ceremony and no one will bat an eye. They can be abused by the industry and the important people won’t care.
Your analysis of the idiocy of gatekeeping on an interpersonal level is spot on, but the larger societal lens paints a much more reasonable picture for gatekeeping. It’s not unreasonable to assume that those who made this culture will be left in the cold by the elite class that steals it. There’s a great video by SMunroe Show called, “casuals are the true elitists,” and I think to some extent they’re correct. It is only reasonable to look at the popularity of geek culture with a skeptical eye until those who profit off of it can prove that they’re doing so in good faith and won’t the old guard like used trash. After all, how can you trust someone who’s always trying to sell you something?
Anyways, that’s my piece. I understand that it wasn’t the point of your video, but I wanted to show a different lens to the whole issue to point out that it’s not necessarily as simple as resentment for past misdeeds. There are plenty of current misdeeds by Hollywood to complain about too.
If you’re reading this, thank you for the video, it was an excellent analysis.
I really liked the video, but if I had one suggestion, it would be to leave the text you display on the screen for longer. My small brain is unable to read that fast, so just a bit longer would stop me from having to pause the video in able to read.Given how long the video is, the pauses make the video even longer, which may be unmanageable for those like me who also have small brain affliction. Again, I really liked your in depth analysis, and I agreed with pretty much every view that you raised. Looking forward to seeing your channel blow up in the future!
Aw wow thank you - glad you enjoyed my take! 😊 And thanks for pointing out that issue, actually; re-watching the video after publishing, it honestly also caught my attention. Will keep it in mind for future edits!
I thought the same thing! I kept having to "rewind" the video to read the (very cool) examples you used to support your argument.
To me certain kinds of gatekeeping is ok. And yeah widespread acceptance was the dream, not the content being changed from its original form,feel,& theme to appeal to the wider audience. Most just wanted the "geeky" stuff accepted as is.
Honestly how is your channel not absolutely huge, your videos are excellent and I’m so glad I stumbled on to your channel.
Lol. I'm a proud fake geek.
A girl once told me "you like so many stuff that you are like a super noob, you like so much of everything that you don't know a lot of anything".
I felt really bad and it hunted me for years... But now I just own it. Yes, I have ADHD, I love too many stuff, I like enjoying too many shit to have a very in depth knowledge. Fuck it!
Ah she hit you with the whole jack of all trades idea, remember there’s a little more to that idea that gets left out. The true saying is “Jack of all trades, master of none but occasionally better than a master of one”, you may only know a little about a lot of things but you may know more about something than someone that only really has knowledge of that one thing.
@@wolftamerwolfcorp7465 that's a very beautiful way to see it.
Thank you
It's a sign of maturity and growth when you can admit past flaws. I commend you. Also, I'm glad I stumbled on this channel. New subscriber!
I was going to say gatekeeping kind of comes from both ways the people who are bitter about their fandoms becoming mainstream are typically bitter because the mainstream audience are study to change their fandoms and leave them behind.
How many times have we heard a film director or producer declare that all geeks are homophobic racist. Nowadays it's your own fandom telling you that you are a bad person.
You were being bullied by the outlets that you once sought refuge at. And this can turn a person really freaking defensive.
This video was FANTASTIC! I love how you break down such a complex topic so thoroughly. I'm gonna have to watch it again in a few days, it's a lot to take in.
I used to have two guy friends in our group when we were 15. I was a massive fan of Fallout 3 and New Vegas. The catch is, I didn't actually play them. My parents refused to buy any consoles or games. They were afraid I'd get addicted and detest doing my schoolwork. The only acceptation was Nintendo (the switch saved my life, I got one this year!). I owned a small laptop and an old DSi XL. The most gaming experience I had were demos, free RPGs, and League. The hyperfixation for games I couldn't play came from walkthroughs and lore channels. Once they found out, they started bombarding me with questions. Didn't even give me time to answer them one by one. It's as if they expected me to answer immediately. I got overwhelmed and ended up not answering any of them. I felt embarrassed and kind of angry at myself. They laughed, called me a fake fan, told me to stop pretending to like Fallout. I think I took that more personally than I should have, but regardless I stopped wearing video game merchandise for awhile. We're cool now, by the way! They're really chill. We've been to a couple movies together and we talk on and off about anime when new seasons come out.
But did they ever apologize tho?
@@gvirusqueen3559 Unfortunately, no. I know it isn't a proper apology, but hanging out again like that was good enough for me. I've realized they've grown as people and they'll likely never do that again.
Not sure why this got recommended, but I love your work. So heres +1 sub.
Happy to know I'm on the algorithm's good side haha; thank you so much! 😊
Thank you for this video, it really struck a chord with me. I used to get frustrated having comic book knowledge and people I just met were trying to “school” me with their knowledge of comic book movie. That’s when I realized I was getting mad when I should really be excited that, finally, other people were becoming fans of the same subject matter. Once again, thanks for addressing the issue. You’re awesome!
All of this gatekeepers are in the geek culture not just for the culture itself, but because they are actually the OG hipsters.
it's even funnier when men are like "there are no woman who like X thing, i wish i had a geek girlfriend with my interests" and then if you mention you like X thing they are like "UGHH SHE IS A POSER, SHE AIN'T WELCOME" specially if you are part of the beauty standards, it's really frustrating, that's why most of my friends aren't geeks, nor otakus, nor gamers and the people i talk about that stuff is people i meet on the internet who don't know i'm a woman, although irl people tend to use this things i like, for example, anime, and use it as a flirtation method which is really annoying.
🤷♂️ That's how courtship works. Dudes aren't mind readers.
That' sucks that ur friends won't join a community of nerds simply because they are worried of what others will think of them. If u like a subject do it because u like, I guess that's what the gatekeeping is all about. Personally as a dude I don't care how much knowledge a girl knows about nerdy stuff but I would like to know if they are genuine in these interested. Ps C'mon it's just nerds, they are the least threatening group u should be worried about on what they think of u. It's not like it's a hot guy or idk someone ur really want to impress. How would go about flirting online?
@@toitman2 that's not the reason they are not geek or otakus, it's just because they don't like it and i rather have my friends that way, with OTHER interests...
Mariana Cornejo my mistake I thought the reason they aren't geeks Is do to the frustrating question of being a poser. I get it now. Ur not friends with geeks because they frustrate u with that question. That's too bad, not all geeks are the same, I hope one day u'll have a non-online geek friend.
I was always outcasted and when I joined other “outcast” I had to prove I was cool enough still so I get u on that, I was always into niche and weird shit growing up and was never seen cool yet I dressed like someone who appeared to have it together Only bc my parents made sure I looked presentable growing up lol. But if I dressed how I wanted I be just like those people who made me feel I had to be just like them despite claiming no one “accepts them”
Gate keeping happens in every hobby.
Literally nothing better than finding a new video essay person and having a new set of videos to binge watch, a nice break from having to wait like a month for the rest of them to upload lol
I'm so glad that I found your channel! You have an incredible way of speaking about complex issues without making me as a viewer feel like a piece of shit. I really appreciate with that. And your videos give me lots to think about. Really appreciated.
Honestly, I figured that the "fake geek girl" idea was started by Hollywood's greater stake within Geek-identified hobbies and entertainment during the mid-to-late 90's/early 2000's. When, after the success of Blade and X-Men and Twilight and the rising popularity of video games sparking the realization that there was money to be made, more and more people with a comic book showed up looking to turn it into a movie flooded major conventions. Which in turn inspired the rise of Gatekeeping and the ostracizing of anything that wasn't believed to be there before. Which included women who, because Geek-identified hobbies were also tagged as male Geek-identified hobbies, were attacked.
High quality content, good editing, great analysis. Glad the mysterious algorithm sent your videos my way!
Wow! I really like your vids, they are so structured and thought out while also being casual and cutting straight to the point, hope to see more!
Amazing vid, lot of info and fun comments packed in half hour! Discovered the channel during a bad insomnia, and made it worth it... Good job!
Great video, and very well thought-out. I think everyone who is incredibly passionate about any topic, nerdy or otherwise, has probably become somewhat defensive of their fandom, so this was a nice reminder that the important thing is that people should embrace enjoying something together.
I especially loved the shot of forest-boy Tom Cruise gazing at the Geek Girl unicorns. I'm a sucker for Legend references.
Very good video, however I think it skipped over a major factor in the backlash against "fake feel girls," and that is sexual frustration. When male fans of a certain property either see women out of their league or those who have personally rejected them exhibit mutual interests, it conjures up all sorts of nasty feelings of entitlement and resentment in individuals who often cope with insecurity and low self-esteem.
That was a really awesome analysis of this subject! I love that you approach it holistically and explain the context and reasoning behind viewpoints, even if the viewpoints may be wrong. Looking forward to your future videos!
I really like you young people's approach to all that. I'm an old nerd lady now and back in my day (before you had internet at home) you didn't even realize that gatekeeping was something problematic. To join basically any crowd you needed the looks, the money, the sports talent, or the weird specific knowledge, but only one of those was accessible through a public library...
I had several long winded questionning sessions as well, I "passed" them, and felt proud. No reason to do that to the kids though, personally I'm happy if others discover the things that are still an important part of my life.
I've never personally seen legit gatekeeping, but i have seen people resent the way that their interests get changed to fit demographics that don't really align with their own.
It's not the same but i constantly see similar things on social media when it comes to niche topics, and imo It's kinda understandable to not want the things you enjoy to slowly get stripped down and inevitably become a completely different thing for the sake of widening an audience (usually done by companies of course).
I understand its not the fault of the people who enjoy whatever topics after the fact but it does suck to be in that situation, so i can sympathize.
"Don't be 16 year old me"
Now that's just some good advice i think everyone should give to everyone else xD
Great video! I'm glad it got recommended to me. I love these types of history breakdown explanations of fandom culture. Gives great insight to the perspectives of both the hobbyists and lifestylers.
And honestly, while the desire to 'protect what's theirs' makes sense, I still just can't understand gatekeepers. I absolutely love talking all things nerdy with people whether they be greenhorns or oldhands. It's fun to geek out with the oldhands, and show greenhorns the ropes (not that I consider myself an expert). In my mind, why push them away when you can find new geeky friends and acquaintances? Let everyone have fun!
Good video. I def used to be this way and I'm so glad I grew out of it.
I'm really into fighting games and do my best to help people who are getting into them feel welcome these days because its how we keep our niche community growing and we need that or we won't have anyone to play with lol.
I think the most important thing to remember when that urge to gatekeep hits is that you didn't know the same thing you're about to give them crap for not knowing either at one point or another. Going back to fighting games: everyone starts somewhere and we're all at different places in our journey. Speaking from personal experience, it feels so much better to help someone along than to try to stand in their way.
It's only the male ego that has the audacity to assume girl's interests revolve around them
It's only the female ego that has the audacity to assume that they're entitled to be automatically accepted into every group, even when they don't really fit in, simply due to their sex.
Anti-male activists have no self-awareness.
@@thegoodlydragon7452 You’re literally proving her point
@@Me-vn3gz She's literally proving mine. Look at the language that you use. "Male ego" is fine but female ego "sounds sexist." You're both so extremely anti-male as to have incredible blind spots to your own hypocrisy.
@@Me-vn3gz this guy was crying because she said in the video "don't be that guy" and claimed it was sexist lmao.
@@nanyabusinessss Ikr 💀
you defo deserve more subscribers what is this?? im subbing asap your content is viral worthy
Aaww haha why thank you! 😍
Love seeing content like this... Organizing all these thoughts in such a structured way is impressive and needed more in our world today
I loved this video; very good points all not only here but in many of your other videos. I especially appreciate the honesty of you sharing your own experiences and growth as you navigate these issues yourself. Hope to see more content and keep up the good, hard work :) :)
This is also a big thing in the heavy metal community, where tshirts are a huge part of the culture, and now we're seeing Slayer tees atSupreme, Iron Maiden tees at Target, etc. One moment we're being ousted by government officials in th PMRC and being called violent l, and the next models are casually wearing a Cannibal Corpse tee. Also gatekeeping is a big part of metal since about Metallica's 2nd album, and like you, I've been no angel; I even remember reading that St.Vincent said if she saw someone wear a Metallica shirt, she'll quiz them on the album track listing. All in all I've learned to live and let live and let it go.
I think part of the nerdy gatekeeping is some kind of resentment towards "normies" who would bully nerds for their interest, but as soon as said interest becomes widely popular, those people adopt them and don't get bullied for it 🥴 At least it was true for my teenage self
Yet another person who was once an ardent gate keeper back in the day @.@ I still heavily resist some cultures exclusively BECAUSE of others (ie. Modern Star Wars, tons of Anime Series, etc.), but I learned that its better to bring people INTO the community and be inclusive, instead of keeping or kicking people out. Really hope the toxic mindset slowly dwindles away, but as you mentioned: it's a psychological phenomenon that is inherent in some peoples. Welp, anywho, LOVE the Zim t-shirt, and happy to be a new subscriber!
This channel is a real hidden gem, great videos all around!
I grew up during an interesting transitional period for geek culture. I was in high school in the mid 90s when shows like X Files were wildly popular. The 90s was like an overture to what happened with Spider-Man and then Marvel Studios. I got mercilessly teased in middle school for liking Star Trek, but by high school, tv was flooded with science fiction and fantasy. X Files, Quantum Leap, Hercules, Xena, Buffy, Babylon 5, Deep Space 9, and a whole slew of less successful series that lasted a season or two opened the doors for the more casual consumer, and it was amazing. I was happily accepted by my male geek counterparts because we were living on that happy edge where deep resentments hadn’t yet fully formed, and while I did get teased a bit now and then, I had a support network. I get the anger and resentment that some geeks have for the wild popularity of nerd culture now. That could have been me or my older brother, but we managed to find acceptance and confidence before this beautiful mainstreaming of nerdery, so we can enjoy it and all the benefits it affords us.
You're really well-spoken, I love your videos. As geek culture grows more and more popular I have to remind myself to be happy and share things that people are interested in the nerd shit I enjoy, it's so much more fun bringing people into the fold. It's like my god-given duty to help girls like myself navigate some of the really shity and misogynistic aspects of the culture.
No, I'm a cisgender female myself and I'm sick of people who are obviously not nerds calling themselves "nerds". The woman in the video, for example, dyes her hair a non-natural color, which is an attempt at looking cool. Nerds do not attempt to be cool. Both jocks and burnouts/goths/punks/emos/hipsters/hippies both strive to be cool, it's just that they have different definitions of cool. I almost never see elderly people dressing as jocks/teenyboppers/emos/punks/hippies/goths/hipsters, but I do see the elderly dressing as nerds. Why is it that pretty much 100% of the elderly dress as nerds? I think it is because the nerd group is the only group that is mature enough to transcend the childish desire to be seen as "cool". Nerds see "coolness" as a meaningless, ridiculous goal and a waste of time. I think most elderly people also have the same philosophy about coolness. Not being cool is the definition of nerds, according to scholar Mary Bucholtz. Scholar Penelope Eckert has written that if a burnout is the opposite of a jock, and nerd is the opposite of both. And Ithink that Eckert means is that both the burnouts and the jocks strive for coolness, it's just that they have different definitions of what cool is. I think that nerds are Zahavian signallers, and this is what is attractive to some people who want to sleep with nerds. It is a show of strength, like, "I don't need fashionable clothes to be sexy, because my body and hair is sexy enough". It's like when Tyra Banks told the prettiest contestant on America's Next Top Model that because her face is so gorgeous, she can pull off the bald look. Maybe a girl with a less-pretty face wouldn't be able to be a professional model with a bald head. But if you have the face of a Miss World pageant winner, then yes, you can have a bald head and still land modelling gigs.
@@moondog7694 How do you know she's dyeing her hair to look cool? You're not so cool as you think, people are just being themselves and you feel the need to categorise everyone and judge them based off what they wear... You're speaking like you know what a true 'nerd' is yet you choose to gate keep and discriminate against others based on looks.
Just found this channel this morning. I saw the video about Manic Pixie Dream Girls, which was a character type I didn’t know even had a name, but it totally makes sense haha.
Watching this video made me really think, I know for sure I’ve been THAT guy in the past (probably more so with music, another hobby that features horrendous gatekeeping practices - “you like that band? What a sellout, I only listen to their first demo from before they got signed, back when they were good,” etc). It’s not always easy striking up conversation with these kinds of topics when everyone is so programmed to be so defensive, probably because they were ostracized from a younger age as you mentioned. Luckily I’ve seen a lot of that defensiveness decrease over the years, although maybe that’s just from getting older, and people not taking things quite as much to heart. I’m sure mileage varies from person to person with that, but hopefully the bullying and gatekeeping slowly dies out.
Anyway, really insightful video. I just subscribed, I’m sure I’ll check out more of your videos!
This channel is definitely gonna be one I'll be keeping my eye on. Great vid, surprised you don't have more subs.