I mean, I haven't been in any hobby where there isn't anyone saying"they do it for the attention". It even happened when I started on Vampire The Masquerade on the 90s even when it was all it all was about
It is so sad that people need to be reminded that the entire reason social media exists is so people can make cries for attention. Don't try to shame cosplayers for "attention-seeking" when publicly calling them out on it in social media is just your own form of "attention-seeking"
Regarding one of your last points, something that seems to come up a bit is that "Nerd" hobbies like Cosplay, D&D, Sci-Fi e.t.c. used to be much more exclusively the realm of the social outcasts. Some of them are having a hard time adjusting to their once niche interests gaining mainstream appeal because they feel like the social pressures that pushed them to the fringes initially, are now pushing them out of what was once a refuge or at least marginalising them within it. This can also lead them to resent the things that generate the mainstream appeal such as sexual content e.t.c. Two thoughts on this 1) People as a whole aren't really out to co-opt anyone's safe spaces, they're just interested in this thing they weren't before - so there's no maliciousness (if anything, sometimes the new recruits are kicking themselves for not discovering this new interest sooner) 2) The universe doesn't care how you feel about something, things change and you have to make good with it within yourself for your own peace of mind.
I LOVE this comment. Thank you for pointing all this out - you said it better than I ever could! Just because once-niche interests gain mainstream appeal and gain "new recruits" off its popularity doesn't necessarily mean their out to push "old fans" out of their refuge. Both can exist at the same time, I don't see why it was it to be one way or another. People tend to forget that but you're absolutely right with having to learn to make peace with how cultural interests/trends evolve. :)
For me, it was an interest in computers. At school, in the 1980s, I was ridiculed as a nerd and a poindexter for my interest in writing BASIC programs on my Tandy TRS-80 Color Computer and knowing how to work the school's BBC Micros. Now the games industry is massive, a comnputer game is the most profitable work of all time, everyone's using their mobile phones in ways I was doing 20 years ago, everyone's on the internet and a computer is seen to be at least as essential as a TV.
Your perspective is pretty damn good, yet I would add you have to be careful of people's red flags within a scene and remove yourself from them before they cause trouble. Since I've learned too often when you call out somebody popular for being legitimately bad towards you and or others sometimes people will turn on you. I do say you need to police your scene to keep creeps and abusive people out. Yet sometimes the best thing to do is simply enjoy wha you like about it instead of riding the whirlwinds other people get swept up in.
To add to this, I understand and used to have the feeling frustration due mainstream attention and the "popular" people who enjoy the property, but the "wrong way" where they enjoy more surface level of the property - i.e. that they're "fake fans" who take focus away from the more involved stuff. A good example for me was Attack on Titan. I picked it up pretty soon after it started to get translated and thought a lot of it. While I thought it was cool to see it get the first season of the anime, I had felt it was strange when you'd see uniforms and cloaks being mass produced and worn by the end of the year. Some of these people just enjoyed it for the action or the clothing aesthetic, caring nothing for the deeper mysteries of the world or darker hints at "something more" going on. It took a little bit for me to realize that there was no "wrong way" to enjoy a property. I'm not sure what caused me to change my perspective. Maybe it was just a gradual thing as I grew up, matured, and being an adult teaching me that focusing on how other people enjoy something is a total waste of my time and energy.
@@Darklordiban7 Yeah, there's a point where you kinda start to "mute" out the fans you don't like because it's like "whatever, let'em live" yet there's a point where some "fans" become so toxic to newer and older fans. They need to move on because how they're acting is just a bad look on the scene. Since we know how the loudest people get the most notice too often and not all noise is good.
Straight up, I'll just confess that I had some of that shallow view on sexy-cosplays that were mentioned, so this was quite enlightening. Bit of an eye opener. Nicely done.
Aw, thank you! 🙏 Glad I could offer a different perspective. 😊 Not gonna lie, I used to have a negative mindset on all this too. Took me a while to realize that I was likely just projecting my insecurities; and these cosplayers were simply expressing their love for the hobby in their own way.
@@ana-isabel well that is a a lie. U only doing that not cause of insecurity at all. U are just pandering cause u might be having friends who do that but u dont want to be calling them out or be honest about it cause u think it is gonna hurt their feelings which is literally lying. Being insecure is literally purposely objectify yourself for attetnion. There is no empowerment. This is a real thing that both men and women do. It is just gets worse when u have to be half naked or make porn to get that attetnion. Which is a real thing and shouldn't be encouraging people like this at all cause all u are doing is making it worse.
@@kuggacouragegx6093 yikes. Guys and girls can cosplay however they want. If you have an issue with that, it's more a reflection of your own inner insecurities.
Idiots in the Geek scene: How dare they change the female designs in FFVII to be less overly sexualized. Also idiots in the Geek scene: Why are all these cosplays so sexualized. Hot girls are ruining everything.
they'd defend the artists who drew or designed those sexy female characters under "artistic expression" but they also gatekeep women from coplaying them
Women being in control of their sexuality MEANS THAT SOME WOMAN WILL CHOOSE TO BE SEXY. Yes women are often over sexualized in media, but that doesn’t mean women are any ‘less’ for choosing to make themselves sexy!!
My thoughts as someone who someone who used to dislike Jessica Nigri is that I didn't see the point is cosplaying a character whose costume you supposedly love if you're only going to wear as little as possible of it, and it was annoying when hers were basically the only pictures coming up in searches and she was the only talked about as it seemed like there was no other way to be seen as a talented cosplayer. Either you were sexy or it wasn't even worth trying, which made me feel jealous and defeated. Over the years I've slowly started to realise it's not true and everyone can cosplay, which helped me accept the sexy cosplayers as well. I'm still not interested in their thing but why they do it and all that is up to them. In short you make a lot of good points.
Thank you :) To be honest, I did have these sentiments once upon a time as well. But as you said - I grew to realize that hey, they're totally free to do their own thing just as I'm free to do me. The coscom has grown into a pretty large community over the years with varying sub-sects of cosplays and the "sexier" costumes sure do have their fans; but it doesn't mean that other types can't exist at the same time, and have their own respective fanbases.
I used to have a major issue with this when I first noticed it being a trend, and it was mainly a knee jerk reaction for a few reasons. I'm glad I'm over it but hope this helps other people understand what is causing their personal hostility toward This. I also just thought it's interesting that male sexy cosplay is never really heard of. 1.) Was the idea of exploitation of my passion for their personal gain, it felt like seeing a product placement ad in the marvel movies. while cosplay was always a bid for attention the sexier side felt more like a look at me, instead of a look at how I can bring this media to life. 2.) You bring up a great point about this being an identity for a lot of people who were bullied for the hobby feeling attacked because their space is being "stolen" and it's now cool. There is a level of transference that occurs toward people because they look or act like those who would bully geeks 5-10 years ago. you can see this happen during the super bowl, "oh now you a fan of team x.... right......." 3.) A lot of men feel jealous and annoyed that sex sells. Just because you look a certain way or act a certain way money is being thrown at you. when the person dressing up could be wearing any clothing cut that way and still have a following you're not promoting the genres, you're promoting yourself. 4.) Finally, I think of it as a conditioned behavior. Older generations tend to view fandom as a socially abnormal personality type (especially females) so when they meet a female nerd a conflict occurs. It's a learned behavior showing off your fandom in a public space is somehow wrong so it is met with fear, suspicion, and sometimes downright hostility.
I agree with this sentiment, but I just changed my thought to that's a good alternate cosplay. But I wouldn't award them the best of that character. Not that my opinion matters anyway.
Yeah I dont really have a problem with Jessica Nigri on a personal level, but me and my boyfriend have had to mute her on social media platforms because of just how prolific her content is. Her lewd pictures are shared all the time in communities we enjoy and we simply don't want to be browsing social media in public and be pelted with lewd content just to participate in our nerdy communities. Like there is a time and a place and I wish there was a nsfw flag on twitter like there is on reddit where you dont have to be exposed to lewd content unless you specifically go looking for it. Which I think is partially why belle delphine got into some hot water recently for her rape-play pictures on twitter. If someone you follow like or even just follows her there is a chance you can be exposed to that content and possibly triggered. Thats pretty much my most negative take on the subject
Look nerds, after decades, you finally have a slew of sexy women joining your hobbies dressing as some of your favorite characters and you’re complaining about it?! Also, I’ve been to plenty of Ren Faires with half naked Spartan men traipsing about (even though that’s over 1000 years before the Renaissance). Fit men do it, too. And there’s nothing wrong with that. Also, I’d like to re-emphasize how hard it is to maintain an in-shape body. I appreciate you mentioning that this isn’t easy! Dieting and exercise are tough.
The sexy women join the hobbies and that makes it feel like high school again. In the mtg scene most of us weren’t lookers and the focus was not on looks. It’s not as if the sexy women as you call them will want to do anything with us. Then again, some might. It just feels like high school again. In a world that is so focussed on looking conventionally good, it was nice to have a community where that was not a focal point in social dynamics as we all were not the best looking of socially awkward. With the influx of social and conventionally good looking people arriving at the scene, the social dynamics we tried to flee from come to our safe haven. At least, that’s how it feels to me. There also is quite a bit of bitterness to it. It also has an element of jealousy to it.
I hope that these "conventionally good looking" cosplayers you encounter don't have the same attitudes as their mean girl, high school counterparts. They might look like those same people, but the resemblance I hope is only skin deep. For all you know, they might have come from a more 80s "jocks and nerds" background and hid that nerdy side of themselves in favor of the standard model that let them feel safe. They could also be a bit older and now feel confident in their bodies and want to show them off after years of lacking that confidence and putting in work to change them. That being said, everyone should feel confident in their bodies. You said the social dynamics you tried to flee came to your safe haven. Are these "hot" cosplayers being mean or dismissive or rude? If so, blame those individuals. I'd also suspect some of that attitude, especially for women, comes from the whole reason we had to have a "cosplay is not consent" movement. If they seem standoffish, it might be because they might simply be wary of sexual advances. I sympathize with you. I grew up a classic band nerd and my niche, Mystery Science Theater 3000, wasn't how I was going to appeal to most "conventionally sexy" girls. But I think just being more confident in myself helped. Rejecting bitterness and jealousy helps, too.
Honestly I'm just a casual cosplayer and I feel nothing but awe when people are comfortable enough to do sexy cosplays. Especially when they are well done.
Cosplay is for everyone and that ranges from babies in Pikachu onesies to old men as Master Roshi. But I hope that I am not in any way ageist when I say that young women should do as MANY sexy cosplays as possible because time and gravity are two heavyweight champs in the ring of life and one day they're both going to give you the KNOCKOUT of your life, lol!!! One minute you're cosplaying Bayonetta and in the blink of an eye you're cosplaing Kaede from InuYasha, lol!!!
Female characters in video games wear bikini armours. Salty guys: That's not sexualising women. That's just how game culture! Female cosplayer wears the same bikini armour Salty guys: hOt WoMeH aRe RuInInG cOsPlAy!!!
I do think there's a difference between cosplaying as a sexy character and sexualizing a character through cosplay. Imo if making fanart of a canonically not overtly sexual highschool character in a tiny bikini is problematic, then so is cosplaying that character in a tiny bikini.
Hi Ana! This is Chris, the guy that did the study on harassment in the cosplay community you talk about around 3:25. Just wanna say hi and throw in my two cents! :) This was actually the thesis research for my MA program in sociology. I was horribly embarrassed by how BAD this study was (it's common for people in academia to be ashamed of their theses/dissertations, lol) so when a friend of mine told me that my research got cited in a TH-cam video, I was giddy with excitement. What I was actually originally going for with this study was trying to figure out how female cosplayers deal with harassment and stigma on the con circuit. I literally do not know a single female cosplayer who does not have a cringey harassment story. This really isn't discussed in the literature on cosplay all that much though, which blew my mind and made me want to do a study on it to try to illuminate how badly women are actually treated on the con circuit. The finding about the photos was actually completely accidental and not related to anything I was looking for. It was just a cool finding that I had to share. The ossification of personal identity through exploration of self via cosplay also became a major theme. In other words, a lot of women cosplayers I interviewed said that they actually found themselves through cosplay. Shy, reserved women found confidence and strength through cosplaying as Chun-Li, Wonder Woman, Ada Wong, etc. and became more confident PEOPLE as a result. So while harassment was the main focus of the study, identity ossification was (hilariously) the most significant finding. Also, omg, this thing is almost 120 pages long, and the bit about agency during the photo shoots is so deep in the findings section that I KNOW you read the whole thing beginning to end. Bless you, Ana. You just gained a subscriber for life.
Hi Chris! I firstly want to genuinely thank you for your insightful study; analytical papers on cosplay are rare enough - much more so those that focus on women's experiences. I learned a ton from your findings and found plenty that brought some of my long-time questions/assumptions to light (i.e. forming your identity/self-esteem through cosplay). It truly was an interesting read - you have nothing to be embarrassed about imo! Secondly, I never thought you'd find your way here but I'm glad you have! Your research really helped me with this video, so I'm glad I have the chance to personally thank you for your hard work! 😊 Keep being awesome.
I hate people who slut shame lewd cosplayers and act as if their existence is literally sacrilege to the fandom like let people express their fandom and creativity in their own way even if it’s not conventional without unnecessary gatekeeping. Like if people can draw lewd versions of characters, people can cosplay said character in a sexy way the entitlement of some people in the community is insane.
I will never understand the mindset of "sexy cosplays cheapens the characters" while also seeing no problem in the characters actually made that way. (Building off of your Starfire example.)
I think a lot of guys deep down know they have little chance with these women, usually because they have these kind of negative attitudes. If the character is within fiction they can project their own fantasy onto them and dream of a scenario where they might get with them. When a cosplayer dresses up as the character to these particular males it is a reminder of all their feelings of inadequacy with real women and them now putting that character beyond their reach. It is a stupid attitude to have and most guys probably don't realize they are subconsciously thinking or feeling this but that is what I think is happening in a lot of cases. They feel their wifu is being taken and they attack.
Also, these beautiful, cosplaying women will go home with their hot, cosplaying boyfriends who can put on a superhero costume and the abs underneath are real, lol. Pwn'd in the real world and pwn'd in their fantasies.
I was just about to type something along those lines! XD To add to it though, I think many nerdy men have internalized this sort of masculinity rat-race. Instead of taking their experiences with childhood bullying and learning to be more compassionate towards other oppressed folks, they internalize the idea that the only thing keeping them from the sex and status of their jock peers is their nerdy interests, while not confronting any of the feelings of entitlement towards said sex and status, criticizing the tear-others-down-to-build-yourself-up strategy for obtaining them, or questioning the idea of women being sexual conquests to gain. In some extreme cases like Piers Anthony or Isaac Asimov, this mindset can lead to pedophilia or sexual assault, but you tend to see it mostly through a general disdain towards "fake geek girls" or the "cosplay thots" talked about here.
I had two coworkers once who were in their early 20s. They both looked like non-nerds, and they were friends with each other and hung out with one another outside of work. I would often hear them talk to each other about Dungeons & Dragons, which they always only called "DnD". I then commented to them that they didn't look like the typical DnD players, that they didn't look like nerds. And the guy agreed with me and said that while they weren't football players, they were the more popular students at their school. And then he tells me that recently two nerdy guys have joined their group, and that he's angry about it, and wants to get rid of them. I asked him why he wants to get rid of them. He then looks downwards and wistfully says something I can't remember, but it was like he didn't even know the reason why he didn't want any nerds in his DnD group, he just wanted them out. I've experienced this same thing at university with my high school classmates. The university I attended was located very close by to my high school, so I saw a lot of my old high school classmates in the hallways of my university. The ones who were in jocks/teenyboppers would groan or heavily sigh as they walked past me in the university hallways, whereas they didn't do this in high school. I think the reason why they didn't do that in high school was because in high school, (well, at least at my high school where there were only about 2000 students in the entire school, whereas at university there is like 15 000-20 000), whenever you walk down the hallway, there are maybe at least 5 people you recognise throughout the day, so you are distracted by someone who annoys you EVEN MORE than some nerd, or you are busy ogling the legs of a girl in a miniskirt. Or, it would just be too tiring to heave a heavy sigh EVERY SINGLE TIME you walk past them in the hallway, because then you might have to heave a heavy sigh like 6 times a day! But at university, you might only walk past someone you recognize like once every 3 days. So I think that's the reason why they started to sigh at me in the hallway, when before they didn't.
Also in the article on The Richest website titled "14 Attention-Seeking Cosplayers That Were Exposed As Fake": "They're also promoting an atmosphere which is cruel, judgmental, and competitive, which is totally not in keeping with the original ethos of the community." "The motivation for these people to cosplay is to be the center of attention, and feel like they have power over other people." "They also didn't judge each other or try to compete against one another - they realized that these events and conventions were one of the few places where cosplayers and so-called "nerds" could get together and celebrate the things they loved without fear of being judged." I, as a white person, am not going to go visit a Black hair salon and stand in the doorway and say to a Black customer who is trying to enter the building, "No, you can't come inside, because this is for us Whites only!". I think that is how those two jock DnD players were acting when they wanted to kick the nerds out, and how my university classmates where acting towards me. I actually thought that the jocks and bimbos, once they got into university, would start acting very timid and submissive to the nerds, because they would be in the minority, but they didn't!!! To my surprise, they acted just as entitled, confident, and like they fit in with everyone else, if not more so, than they did in high school! I think that jocks and teenyboppers have a mindset of narcissism. They think that all events and clubs belong to them and should allow entry to them, but they think that all these clubs should expel anyone who isn't like them (just as my classmates wanted to expel me from university).
I can't imagine a point in time when these aspects were not part of cosplay. Going back to the late 70s and early 80s you have Red Sonja, superhero and various Elfquest cosplays that were sexy or sexualized. She Hulk, Tigra, and yes, people sexed up non-sexual characters. To say that this sort of thing is "ruining" cosplay is to imply that it is an element of the hobby that has somehow crept in and perverted the hobby from something that, in all truth, it never was. The sexy is part of the hobby and always has been.
@@kuggacouragegx6093 well you’re the minority and entitled to your own wrong opinion, let these people live and don’t judge them do to your own hangups. If they wanna be sexy then let them.
@@kuggacouragegx6093 No, women shouldn't be objectified. Yes, women should be allowed to be as sexy as they want to be. There's a big, obvious line between objectification and sexual empowerment.
@@aaronlittle5478 that is the dumbest lime u said. Cause that is a contradictory to your point. That is literally is objectifying. If she wants to it for her partner for the room which people should. That can. There is a big difference. U dont need to be a sex object to be power. There is no such thing as sexual empowerment
What bothers me is when I enter a cosplay content and ALL the judges are female cosplayers who do lew cosplays. I can understand if there's one judge to represent that genre of Cosplay; but not all of them. When I enter my Game of Thrones costume into a contest I want a cosplayer who's won awards as a seamstress to judge my work. if I ever decide to make armor out of foam and enter it into a contest with 'said costume'. I want a cosplayer who makes amazing foam armor to judge my work. Also I'm tired of panels of ALL males judges ONLY picking lewd cosplayers to win contests. There can be a category for best lewd cosplay but they can't always win every single category in a contest. Its insulting to people who do other genres of Cosplay.
I mean unless you can prove that said specific female lewd cosplayer judges don’t have such seamstress/craftsmanship skills how do you know said judges aren’t skilled. You can’t base someone’s skill set off of one cosplay you see them do at a panel and even if they only do lewd cosplay it can still take a lot of effort and skill to create certain looks. Any artist of a high skill level would still be able to see the value of a well-made armored cosplay/or whatever genre. I admit certain panels can have biases and if you really feel like the judges at a panel are unskilled that’s a problem to bring up to the con itself for hiring said judges.
As a woman who primarily cosplays male characters (many of which are are crotchety old/middle aged men who are as far from ‘sexy’ as you can get) I find it really frustrating not just seeing other women go viral for their sexy cosplays but also seeing Cis-men throw together a quick vague approximation of a character they happen to look like & get famous for that when I spent 3 hours on makeup trying to look as much like that character as possible even tho I know my body type & face puts me at a severe disadvantage. I’m not mad at their success & I want everyone to be able to have fun, I just wish there was more appreciation for the artistry of crossplay. Some genderbends are really creative & awesome, but many of them feel like there was no reason behind it other than ‘well I wanted to be the sexy lady version’ even when that makes no sense for a character. I don’t see how you can have love & respect for a character, & then change everything about their personality, sense of style, & mannerisms to make them sexier but practically unrecognizable . Harley Quinn has always been a very sexual character so it’s not weird to portray her a bit more risqué. (As long as you also acknowledge the other equally important aspects of her personality) But a sexy Captain America genderbend often feels disingenuous to me because that’s never been the point of his character or even a character trait. It also feels like the person is implying that the female version of a character HAS to be more scantily clad & sexualized than the male counterpart, just because she is a woman. That really rubs me the wrong way.
Slightly off track thing sort of related to the thing about artsy cosplay, genderbends and appreciating quality of makeup among other thing. I absolutely love seeing before and after pictures of trans people because it's just amazes me how people can change their look so greatly. (Not at all implying that it's a type of cosplay, just means that a lot of the makeup and changing their look can be similar)
Generally not a bad video but a few things 1) While sex sells, selling sex can be extremely predatory. Many companies exploit both the models in their employ as well as their fans for their own profit. This isn't exclusive to companies either, many models learn to how manipulate people through parasocial relationships to increase their donations / subs / patreon members. The horror stories include underage kids tapping out their parents credit cards to pay for egirls (and this includes cosplay egirls) without cause. Greed exists and we can't act like greed is entirely good, dismissing concerns about monetizing sex as "sex sells lol ur fault if you bought it." 2) The misfits and outcasts are often concerned about losing their community because they were misfits and outcasts due to their own inability to interact socially with other people, not really because of their interests. Their interests were partially a side effect of their inability to interact socially. Some extreme otaku or gamer isn't going to suddenly be normal because everyone else likes anime or video game. They're still going to be neurodivergent and others moving into their space often pushes them out of it. Its like gentrification but for popularity. The popular people decide "nerd things are cool" and suddenly those kids who used to geek out over pokemon are pushed away from pokemon because their geeking out makes others uncomfortable around them.
You are right about some things but you are wrong in trying to portray that it is only a matter of social skills that makes someone unpopular. At my high school, all 8 of the girls in the girls in the white girl out-crowd were also the ugliest 8 girls. Now are you trying to tell me that it's just a coincidence that these girls happened to be the most conventionally physically unattractive? I read that girls will make hierarchies for one another according to physical beauty. I saw a documentary about friendship in childhood, and they did an experiment with kindergarteners. They had the kindergardenters choose the photos of like 5 people in their class whom they'd want to be friends with. The prettiest girl had the most classmates who chose her. The ugliest girl only had one classmate who chose her as someone they'd want in their top 5 friends. I also asked a psychologist about this, and was told that yes, it is looks that can make someone not able to have friends. I've heard two teen girls create a song about how everyone just treats people according to what they look like in high school. That's why I don't think popularity had anything to do with personality (at least for females - for male students, personality was perhaps a bit more important). It has to do with looks. The psychologists Gary Aumiller and Daniel Goldfarb in their book "Red Flags! How to Know When You're Dating a Loser" also say that some men only have friends because they are handsome: the chapter on "the Neglector" is one such guy: "they are often good-looking because less-engaging individuals couldn't be this way and maintain a social life; therefore, only the attractive ever survive with this pattern". These two psychologists consider the handsome man "The Neglector" to be un-dateable. Yet, he has tons of friends! Another profile in the book of someone who was very popular yet has a bad personality is "Mr. Ego". In the quiz/checklist, it says "Very popular in school", "Physically pretty infant/child", "Friends tend to contact him most of time", "Friendships seem shallow and one-sided", "Eyes never look at you", "You cannot get a word in edgewise", "Although this is not intentional, when people start to get a little tired or burned by Mr. Ego's glow, he can get rude or demeaning."
I have to admit that the only thing that sort of bothers me, and mind you this is a personal gripe of mine, is when they take a character that is not "sexy" and try to up the sex appeal with very low effort, like lets say, trying to cosplay as a sexy Doom main character by just wearing a green bikini and a Doom marine helmet.
Why does it bother you. It doesn’t affect your life or anyone else’s life in the slightest. If you’re upset that low effort cosplays get more attention (which they don’t bc the lewd cosplay market is hella competitive) then just support other cosplayers and let people express themselves how they want. Not everyone has to make an amazing cosplay, some people aren’t as crafty too so maybe that’s the best they feel like they can do on their time and budget.
@@dan-anhh.8841 Oh, its very simple. When you like or enjoy a piece of media, you make connections to certain fictional characters, and you can get defensive of said characters, thats how waifu wars get started. Second, I'm not talking about this at an amateur level, and effort is not tied to your resources, but to time, and I actually respect the love and time" people who aren't as crafty", like you said, make some stuff, and this might sound esoteric, but you can see / feel when someone puts the effort in the things they do, like my initial example, buying a green swimsuit and a green helmet and say "ok done", is not something that I would say takes effort. And lastly, I said this is a personal gripe, I'm not about to go on a warpath against cosplays like that either, I'm just not going to, as you said, support them.
This topic kind of has me second guessing a cosplay design of mine.... My personal taste and style is not very modest, and I'm concerned that after I spend hours molding and painting armor that doesn't cover my whole body, people might think I'm just trying to be hot. But then again, there's nothing wrong with wanting my costume to still look good/hot on me, anyway!
I wouldn't pay it too much mind. There will be judgemental pricks no matter what. The important thing is that you are having fun making and presenting your costume. Of course if you want to make the costume more modest for your own sake that's cool. But I wouldn't change it because of those people, many of them don't accept women in geek culture in general. So it's not worth trying to earn their approval. Regardless of which way you go best of luck with your costume!
TBH I'd think what most reasonable people's problem with the subject is the straight up unironic "thotplayers". I'm talking about the army of Spidergwens, Zero-suit Samus and Divas. The Bikini-with-a-Wig Troupe. A minimal effort crowd that gathers an arguably undeserved amount of attention and money (the main currencies of the cosplay industry). That core group is the one that truly generates the hatred and anger within the community, some might say, with good reason. And is a true tragedy that those who dwell on the grey area, meaning having varying combinations of skill and lewdness (not just peddling geek sex fantasies, like the first group), get flak as collateral damage. Rest assured, most people who love the Art distinguish the two. Personally I think Jessica Nigri is a prop-making beast, and her Inosuke cosplay made my jaw drop at how good it was. I love cosplay, specially prop-oriented ones, and I follow many skilled men and women, many of whom have sexy stuff on their repertoire! Yet the key component is always a passion for the craft, shown through effort and acquired skill, be it lewd or prude. I think most people who have a problem with Thotplayers feel they are disrespecting the art they are so passionate about. And sometimes that anger, sadly, spills to adjacent victims. I think the person who made this video started already from one side of the fence and it showed on how much she attack and defended certain postures and arguments. I'm more fan of neutralist, devil's advocate kind of compositions. This is more of a "In Defense Of..." than it is a "Let's Talk About..." kind of video. This is my take on it at least.
my only complaint about a cosplay would be if the cosplayer didn't give a single shite about the character or franchise they were cosplaying from. for me at least, cosplay shines brightest and best when the cosplayer obviously apart of the fandom surrounding a character. if you don't care for the character you're cosplaying i just don't see a point to it. regardless of whether its sexy or not, cosplay a character you love, not just because their waifu of the week.
Well said. I try not to be negative towards a sexy cosplay, but still have to struggle with a though like "There's a chance that she's just promoting herself with a stuff that popular and doesn't actually cares about the character she's cosplaying.". I have spent a fair share of time in a cosplay community and I know that it isn't a rare occasion. I guess a lot of people hate when a cosplay is obviously made for money and not a labor of love.
So, people gotta walk around with their CVs to prove themselves worthy? I've been wearing costumes since I could walk. I don't care what the motivations of other people are, I just enjoy people enjoying what I do.
@@Miraihi well that’s just marketing for ya and I bet you turn a blind eye when an idol of yours promotes something different that they really don’t know about just because they were promoted to.
ngl, I used to think this way when I was younger. I had this mindset of "sex bad" for EVERYTHING. Fast forward to now, in my 20s, I've come full circle into learning about my own asexuality and coming to terms with it, while also feeling extremely more chill about people doing their own thing because they wanna. Heck, half of the time I wish I had the confidence these ladies have.
The reason that so many are frustrated with the things we were made fun of for so long suddenly becoming popular is that a lot of the people who suffered for liking this stuff weren't suddenly popular when it went mainstream. A lot of people struggle to face the fact that the reason for their lack of popularity is more to do with their generally shitty and misogynistic personalities, when they used to just chalk it up to "people just don't like the geeky stuff I like".
Just want to say as a male cosplayer: I've probably made more money selling commissions than many if not most "lewd cosplayers/thots" do trying to sell their sets, and I never exactly sell or post "sexy" photos either, all my modeling has always been to sell the quality of my work to entice people to order commissions and after some time it just kinda took off and kept selling itself (the fact that 90% of my market has been female cosplayers is interesting to say the least... I guess there's a niche appeal to having a straight dude make you a custom tailored cosplay? XD) Will further add that knowing a lot of said "cosplay thots" personally, there's a dark side to that market in that even well long before the pandemic it was already saturated and very competitive, many of my friends in that market would work tooth and nail spend lots of time and money on outfits and photographers just to barely break even and find they make better money working part time at McDonalds
People that complain about cosplays that aren't wearing enough clothes etc never made sense to me. Like Jessica's junk rat cosplay for instance, dudes not wearing a fuckin shirt in the game so why would you? At least she covered up the important parts.
TL;DR Jealously breeds hatred and not everyone was born with a body to show off a lewd cosplay outfit or has the skills to attract that man/woman in said outfit, therefore haters will hate and lash out in envious contempt.
I found your channel recently and I've been enjoying your videos on the topics of nerd culture and cosplay! Your videos are super insightful and eloquently worded and definitely challenge me to re-think a lot of previously held assumptions and biases, so thank you for that!! This video topic in particular was super challenging for me because I'm of two minds. On the one hand, as someone who grew up passionate about "nerd culture" (mostly on the anime and fantasy end of things) and feeling ostracized and, frankly, undesirable by boys/men as a result, it's very difficult for me to see nerd culture gain popularity in the last several years, and see the rise of a lot of these "sexy cosplayers" gain attention (perhaps more so than more "traditional" cosplayers). There was a point in time where all I'd see in the cosplay community (read: all that seemed to be featured on cosplay pages) were sexy/lewd cosplays. Honestly, it got exhausting. On the surface, it absolutely looks like they're capitalizing on something popular/cool/relevant, especially when I see sexy cosplays of characters who are never portrayed in the original as being sexual/sexy/"slutty" - it just feels disingenuous to portraying the original character (especially if the original character design isn't sexy/lewd). To be honest, in some ways it does feel a bit like a betrayal of franchises/characters I love to see them "reduced" to predominantly slutty iterations on Instagram/at conventions (I see this less now than a few years ago when cosplay/nerd culture really took off in the mainstream). And yes, I realize I do have a lot of years of internalized misogyny that I need to unpack and undo! I am working on this! On the other hand, you absolutely brought up some really great points - cosplay is hard work and takes a LOT of time and money, especially if you're making your costume by hand! And we should absolutely celebrate the work that goes into cosplaying, regardless of whether it's a sexy cosplay or a more traditional/accurate depiction of the character. Because, like you said, the community should be happy that nerd culture/cosplay is mainstream. It's never been easier and more accessible to buy cosplays or learn to make your own. Anime is streaming on Netflix and Disney+, and, like you said, comic book movies are topping the box office. New fans are joining fandoms all the time. This is a great thing! We're seeing so much more diversity in the cosplay space too as a result, which is also amazing! I heard things growing up like, "Oh, I don't cosplay because I won't be able to make myself look exactly like the character", but now we're seeing so many more creative interpretations of characters, and you can see that people do it to genuinely have fun, which, at the end of the day, is the point! Anyways, if you made it this far, thank you for taking the time to read my essay! I really love your content and I look forward to more videos from you! 😊
Just found your channel through the manic pixie video and been bingeing your videos! Have to say your edits, pacing, sense of humor and articulation is so good and looking forward to seeing more! Amazing content!
Imagine being mocked for liking something not considered cool by a someone whom claimed it was stupid and childish, only find out that very same person was making money pretending to like what they mocked others for.
Doesn't bother me at all! I'm a little jealous that they're so hot, but congrats to them! They work hard to maintain those figures and, yeah, it IS brave to walk out of the house like that. They're doing what they love and making money.
5:27 okay so I’m a pre everything trans guy for context for when I say “I’m a dude BUT”-I used to work at a cosplay restaurant. One of my characters was Poison Ivy and I went through a variety of costumes for her and one of them was wearing these green jeggings and a pair of green tights or fishnets cut into a top underneath one of the dresses. I waited on a table and it was great and all but the dad or grandpa or whoever he was complimented me for my “modesty” cuz usually people cosplay Poison Ivy in a very “sexy/sensual/skimpy” manner. It was the weirdest comment I got for my poison ivy cosplays. And the reason I wore so many layers? I had to run food, serve tables, run around, it was a family friendly restaurant, and the dress I was wearing at the time wasn’t one I was comfortable wearing alone cuz I wasn’t comfortable with having to readjust my costume so much. And with weight fluctuations my costumes would sit difffently on me so lots of my costumes had various layers to make sure I either have the impression of having green skin or to cover my ass in 20 layers so some random mom who requested poison ivy to be her server for her kids wouldn’t complain. Never mind Poison Ivy is a femme fatale known for her most famous costumes being sexy/pin up style and her being a bombshell. 🙄
Oh rad, I was really enjoying your pop culture analysis and had no idea you were a cosplayer! Its almost been a year since cons ended (as an artist I miss them).
@@ana-isabel did I hear in the vids you’re in Australia? Here in the states the cons keep postponing which I fully understand. I’d like to believe we can get the vaccination rollout happening by winter but anything before then is gonna be real risky given how bad the infection rates are. The thought of 30,000 people in a space seems unreal now.
Personally I don't like seeing over sexualized stuff and seeing people just go for the "sex sells" route makes me feel kinda disappointed. But I can always just... ignore them, pretty simple. I'm not obligated to see what they're doing, it's their lives not mine so they can do whatever they want. Sometimes it's good to remember to stop watching over other people's lives and focus on yours
This video is so well made in both the editing, the points you make and the research you've evidently done beforehand. I'm glad I found your channel :33
As a hobbyist, I don't care if others want to do sexy or lewd cosplay. I even follow a couple of "sexy" cosplayers' public/SFW content because I enjoy the work they do and their personalities. Sometimes I feel a bit of envy because I work in a very conservative job and I have to be really careful about what I choose to cosplay. Anything that could be considered lingerie, swimwear, or even mildly provocative is off limits to protect my image in case anyone manages to associate my cosplay persona directly to my irl identity. Even just being associated with cosplay can be a problem because it's fairly frequent that all a stranger will know of cosplay are hot cosplay models who have managed to spin their hobby into a career or the cosplay porn stuff. Mostly, I just tell people I like to sew and make elaborate fantasy costumes.
I am a year late to this video but whatever, I'll still chime in because this is one of the aspects of cosplay I always love to discuss! Personally the only "problem" I can find with erotic cosplay or straight up NSFW cosplay photos/videos circulating platforms is the fact that most platforms simply don't provide the tools to keep the stuff away from minors' eyes. Sure, you can hashtag stuff, but that doesn't ensure that your content won't end up mixed with SFW cosplay content. This is the only problem I can find in all this, that the stuff ends up in spaces where it not only is shown to, but also has a chance to influence minors to think that the only way to get attention for your cosplay is to add sex appeal to it. A rather mixed signal when combined with statements like "anyone can cosplay any way they want and be valid" and "everyone should cosplay for themself", at least in my opinion. Personally I'd prefer if erotic cosplay was it's own genre, separated from "just cosplay", beginning with the fact that the target audiences are rather different. From what I've seen from the comments on erotic cosplay pictures, it would seem that the majority of the audience who follow erotic cosplayers are there more because of the eroticism, and less because of the cosplaying, meaning that the target audience is likely to be not only adults, but more specifically non-cosplaying adults. There's nothing wrong with this setting in my opinion, as the cosplayers have made that choice and are consenting adults, but just like we don't put out regular p0rn0graphy for minors to see, shouldn't the same sentiment apply with this? Why should the erotic cosplay content be pushed together with the non-erotic cosplay content, when the other is rather obvious in its' appeal strictly to adult audiences? Just my few cents on the topic, sorry for the length 😅
I think a lot of it is the stigma that nerd culture has had over the years, that only recently has become mainstream. You see media from the past decades and you see the stereotypical nerd characters getting picked on, bullied, turned down by the "hot girl", that sorta thing. So media built this image that nerds look a specific way with certain behavior and mannerisms and in general, being a nerd is detrimental to your social standing or played for laughs. Those kinda tropes have had a lasting impact on those who grew up with them, and thus the hobbies seen as "nerd" became niche and when it broke out of the that niche, the gatekeeping started. People who were not seen as the stereotypical nerd or adhered to the tropes of being a nerd are "fake". But society is ever evolving and this is the first real generation of kids that grew up in a more media heavy era since media is easier than ever to get a hold of compared to before. These niche nerdy things we grew up with are readily available now, and not just a 1 time broadcast that if you didn't catch it, you missed out. And with more of a focus on media preservation now, and the weaponizing of nostalgia by Hollywood, those niche's can be enjoyed by everyone now. I guess it's just remnants of that mentality that haven't been burned out of societal norms, the old man yelling at kids to get off his lawn if you will.
I actually did not know all this went into Cosplay! I always thought it was an outfit, make up, and a good camera. Didn't know about peoples exercise routines and photoshoot sessions. Seems like a lot of work but if people enjoy it, I'm glad they're happy.
I just subscribed!! Good video. I have tons of friends on Instagram who do L00ds and I think they're beautiful. It's about supporting the artist. When we buy their photos we are not buying them. WE ARE BUYING THEIR ART period
Ahhh thank you so much! 🥰 And yessss, I agree. People tend to dismiss the creativity/effort that still plays a part in the more sexualized aspects of cosplay.
It seems like to me similar to what I have experienced in the art world. People only see the finalized versions and not the progress that went into it. I am a graphic & web designer; have numerous clients tells me it isn't good or just out right bad since they only see the final version. I could show how much work goes into it, but I doubt it would change their minds. I have learned to try and see the big picture before jumping on the emotion first think later wagon.
So I'm sure a lot of women do it because they want to and it makes them money. But I also think about booth babes, who have no connection to the work, who are just being paid. It makes me think of like the difference between starting an OnlyFans and doing sex work/something sex work adjacent for an employer. A lot of these industries can be exploitative for women: they don't have unions, they're often underpaid/overworked/mistreated, and they don't always have legal protections if things go wrong. How do we ensure that these women can draw a steady income and have worker protections, in what's a pretty new field?
I remember taking my two sons to the Brisbane Exhibition Centre comic-com, the cosplay was awesome to see, you can see the effort that goes into the hobby.
Love the video, not sure how it just showed up on my timeline now, but I’m assuming you pulled this from my TH-cam channel! I wanna know where the fox came from ahaha
OMG, that's embarassing - so sorry! I never noticed until now but I honestly think it was just a brain fart - I'm guessing 'cause I mentioned Katyuska Moonfox previously and slipped lol. I fixed this in my description :)
your take on this was really interesting to hear! it’s so frustrating to see people online pseudo-policing cosplayers about what they should wear/post. on the other hand, and a more personal side, i’m a cosplayer and i feel discouraged when sexy characters or sexualized versions of characters get the most reach/attention on social media. no hate to the creators, as most of them are talented and lovely, but it feels extremely discouraging when washboard abs, tiny waist, and a conventionally attractive face are the main selling points of a cosplay instead of the actual costume. i recognize that i’m in a place of privilege as a white cosplayer too, so i can’t imagine how some poc cosplayers feel when comparing themselves to the likes of Jessica Ngiri, for example. it’s turned into a cycle of hating my own cosplays because i feel so unattractive, unconfident, and gross compared to other cosplayers.
I think the problem here, like I mentioned on your gate keeping video, is the issues, like so many, run far deeper and is far more complicated than this. No matter how well you, or anyone, covers a topic, they are just far far bigger issues, that people dedicate their whole careers to trying to unravel. Not an insult to the video, it is a great video as it does bring much needed awareness and balanced point of view to the topic. But like i say, its a bit like focusing on the head ache you have... because you actually have brain cancer. There are just so many aspects to these kinds of outlooks, problems and their discussions. A lot of what is discussed here could be seen as the symptoms of other, deeper, problems in this particular field, not so much the cause. But they look like a cause, because those actions and outlooks in turn then have their own syptoms and problems. Much like how having a head ache has it's own negative impact on your life and so you blame the headache, before you find out its brain cancer. Like so many things, there are so many angles to it... the positive sides of this, like any activity or interest, will always have inherently negative ones. Especially when you start adding already complicated topics like sexuality, what that actually is, how its viewed in modern society and where all that comes from, in to the mix. This argument is the same as the war raging inside comics and games right now, that these characater come from. So it's no surprise interests that spring from other interests will have the same issues, if not worse, because they get boiled down and pushed further, as most sub cultures do. Comic's already take a fair amount of heat due to the over sexualisation issues, both from inside and outside of the comics community. So it's no surprise that when cosplayers take that further, they in turn take the same heat from both inside and outside of their communities. And all of this is no different to the social wars being waged right now, regardless of the focus. There are aspects to this I could bring up not even touched upon here, that revolve around the apparent contradictions that all problems seem to have when looking at larger social issues. Because as I say, so much of this is tied in to far larger discussions than cosplay, that just happens to be one of our (as a community) fields of interest, and how we are all facing these larger social issues.
I think you're hitting at something important here and I would love to see this conversation expanded on. For example, I don't always wear makeup, but I really like to and find it enjoyable to put my makeup on. There's nothing inherently "wrong" with either wearing makeup or not wearing it. However, and I think this is ultimately the point you're getting to OP, me wanting to wear makeup and liking it does NOT exist in a vacuum. There are years of socialization that make it impossible for me to determine whether or not I still would have liked it without any kind of external influence. And that's just makeup! It's not anywhere near as complex as something like human sexuality.
@@amandaski Somebody got mad at me and hasn't talked to me since when I brought up what you just said. Makeup is fine yet how it is sold and how it "works" isn't really for the person it is for others no matter what. If it looks go it is by design that's the whole point of making a palette. They kept on going it's all 100% their choice. When there's a science to makeup that doesn't include them it's for the observer. But sexuality is just a mess like I started off as hetero and now I'm asexual/aromantic. People don't think that's possible. Or acknowledge there's a rivalry when it comes to sexual expression. Like women can be sexy and nobody can get upset. Yet a guy does it, it is more seen as a joke or gay. It's a whole mess.
People nowadays always complain and i believe they are jalous aswell they lack any creativity so they lash out too those who have. In my opinion those cosplayers are masters in their craft a massive amount off respect too them and too you. Great video👍
SAMMMEEEE on the 1st topic! 😹💦 Funny enough, when I finally tried out the more skin-exposed characters (heck even the more skintight bodysuits like my Catwoman & Samus), I wasn't even thinking if my body could handle it because of the magic of improvising nyaha!! If I did, that's one other reason why I'd spend more time making the other aspects of my costume look better than my body.. like the costume itself, the wig, the makeup or props. To divert attention so people can appreciate more than one thing in a cosplay~
YES - cosplay is a collective of so many art forms, they're just all tied to loving/expressing passion for fictional works. Sexy cosplay/modelling is just one of them. But people can definitely appreciate or master other aspects of the hobby like makeup, costume design, prop-making, etc. That's what makes cosplay so exciting! 💖
I’m not involved in the cosplay community more than seeing photos and respecting the craft and art that goes into it. It sounds strange that observers would complain about sex appeal for fictional characters when I knew a lot of folks growing up who over sexualized video game characters and cartoons with very crude and lewd comments. That should just lead into respecting those who make it an art in real life but yeah....sometimes people suck. This was informative and interesting to an outsider. Good video. Thank you!
Really cool video and loved your level approach to the topic. One additional point i've noticed is a notable double standard when it comes to sexy cosplay. Pretty much half the time I see a male cosplayer at a con with an impressive physique, they're wearing an outfit that (adapted for the other gender) would have many female cosplayers labeled as total sluts. The pokeboys from the west coast anime conventions of the 2000'-2010's immediately spring to mind, but they're hardly the only ones. Aside from stigma, one other thing I've noticed from various conventions is that notable sexy cosplayers like Jessica Nigri are legit inspirations/idols for a lot of other women who got into cosplay. Like full on fangirling upon meeting her levels of adoration, it's honestly kinda adorable.
As a former cosplay aficionado I used cosplay mainly as a way to know more people with similar interests and engage in the small geek/otaku community of my city. I got to know wonderful people who I'm friends with till today. What I can say is that I had an "elitist" phase in which me and my cosplayers group mainly thought that if you didn't "looka like" certain character you shouldn't even think of cosplaying them (this is sad, kinda fatphobic and discriminatory in a lot of ways, but hindsight is 2020 and I very much hope I learned to be better) and this self regulation just made me don't want to cosplay characters who had abs showing just cause I thought I wouldn't "look as cool" as them ans just overall "ruin" the character (I was at decent shape at the time, just no THAT muscular). TLDR I used cosplayed and got in an elitist phase that ruined the fun of it, don't do that.
You know I can see both sides of this. I watched your other video as well about Gatekeeping and I've been guilty of that myself. I'm more defined by my interests as a nerd than anything else and sometimes it's hard to give people the respect they deserve for not being as deeply intimate with the source material as I am. That being said on this video topic, I have to say I am not at all a cosplayer but I do enjoy seeing cosplayers bring my favorite characters to life whether they be muggles or "hot cosplayers." I'm not so much into the big name hot cosplayers like Nigri though. Enjoy what I've seen of your content so far though and hope to get caught up.
To some extent, I understand the general feeling behind gatekeeping, it is upsetting to be tricked into thinking someone is like you and then finding out they were faking it for money/attention and don't really respect you. BUT, it's a slippery slope, many people can very easily start getting more and more paranoid and end up attacking legit members of their own community because they start seeing infiltrators everywhere, even where there are none.
This misdirected anger is the product of a society drowning in pornography. It’s pretty understandable to not want a community you feel safe in to be commodified, and the reaction always going to be toxic when it is; since most sub cultures are about finding solace from the relentless advertising, consumerism, or sexual imagery shoved down our throats, the visceral anger makes sense, even if it’s directed at the wrong people. Sex and advertising tends to invade all spaces is all, and brings with it an elitism. So, without agreeing with the hate, it makes total sense to me. Because a professional sex worker appealing to a subculture for profit is definitely going to ruin it. That’s just what pimps and ho’s do to a neighborhood. 🤷🏻♂️
i don't agree with the mindset of "a society drowning in pornography," sex work is real work after all. but i agree with other things you said and you've given me some other things to ponder. thanks~
I'm pretty neutral on it because as a guy I don't mind attractive women in cosplay especially if we are cosplaying from the same thing. I'm not big on the Bikini version of characters tho
The only appropriate cosplay is an amorphous gray blob which shows no defining characteristics and accentuates no part of anyone's anatomy. Think, if the Greendale Human Being were substantially less sexualized. That's the world I want to live in.
Cosplay hobbiest, I don't mind how or what people do with their cosplays (sexy, crossover, generbend, etc) as long as they are respectful to each other in the community. In South Africa we have occasional drama where people push their way into sponsorships where other cosplayers are already there. Our community is decently sized but there's always drama in it. LEWD is the leat of our worries from my perspective. 🤷🏼♀️😅
My only problem with the abundance of sexual cosplayers is just the abundance, not the sexiness. Women who never do sexual cosplays get generally a lot less spotlight and they might feel a strong pressure to be more sexual to increase viewership of their content, especially when so many of the most popular cosplayers do sexy cosplays. Similar to how there aren't as many popular female streamers who don't present themselves sexually just to be more popular, but instead use their humour and personality and knowledge of the subject matter. I know sexy cosplays don't automatically discredit the non sexy ones, but you can't deny that the sexy ones garner more attention and popularity then a non sexy one which took the SAME level of effort. That's why it feels unfair. Still, we shouldn't entirely blame women for capitalising on this because it is the largely male audience that perpetuates this trend by over-consuming the sexualised cosplay content.
I didn't know that any of this was even a problem. And my God, what's with all the haters in the world, and being mean and hateful toward others and each other? It's like someone or something has sucked all the love and kindness out of these people.
Well. As someone that also is a hobbyist, sometimes I cosplay, sometimes I go for pics and to meet fellow geeks. All cosplay can be cool. Some like the super sexy cosplay the best and draw that attention. I kinda like seeing the super big and poofy outfits the best.
Totally agree! Personally, I enjoy seeing both - though I do admit that I'm drawn to the grand craftsmanship of big, battle armours most as well. 😊 Some cosers like Nigri and Yaya Han are impressive at both, which is awesome!
It seems like the same guys that complain about sexualised cosplayers are the ones that will defend the oversexualisation of female characters in media. It’s fine to CONSUME the sexualised women as long as they’re objects and not real women doing it for themselves, then it’s suddenly a threat to the power dynamic
While I worked with the Melbourne Anime Festival (MAniFest!) our number one rule was nipples and crotch should be appropriately covered for public and you have to have something on your feet. And for the most part, people were happy to comply, the only time we had to turn someone away for their costume was because they were cosplaying "Leeloo Dallas Multipass" reconstruction version, and the straps were not at all as thick as they should be and were very loose and all we could think was "How did you leave the house thinking you weren't going to be arrested let alone get into a con like this?"
There is one aspect of it that i would be willing to consider valid, the fact that professionals with sponsors are pushing aside the hobbyists, but that's not just with sexy cosplay and not all of sexy cosplay.
You are a well spoken young woman and have well thought out comments. As someone who is relatively neutral about this entire subject I do have a question that I am going to ask out of honest curiosity. There seems to me to be a disconnect with women here. On the one hand they don't want to be treated as objects. They rail against being stigmatized for being women. "I have a brain, too", is a common refrain. Playboy went through 50 years of hell from feminists over these conflicts. Now we have women who want to dress up in sexy costumes to get attention. Who proudly want to show how sexy they can look. Is this not a contradiction? Is this not wanting to have it both ways? Sex sells and it is no coincidence that for cosplayers who have Patreon accounts what you pay for is access to more skin, more sexy content. Even the name used for these pay to be seen photo shoots are called 'lewds'. (A truly awful term to use, yet it is a popular one that women themselves use to talk about themselves). Nobody cosplays Little Bo Peep to get men to join. I would be interested in your thoughts about the two sides of this debate. Am I misrepresenting, even unintentionally, what is going on? Are my statements true? Or are they based on misinformation? Thank you for listening. And Cosplay On!
Thank you so much for the thoughtful comment! You've pointed out some interesting stuff here; on the one hand women wish to look and feel sexy, on the other - they wish to not be objectified. I do think that perhaps the confusion regarding these seemingly contradicting viewpoints stem from what "objectification" entails. I believe sexual objectification is to view or treat someone without autonomy, with no regard to the thoughts and feelings that make them... a person. To simply see them as a "thing" for their pleasure/titillation. That said, it's possible to admire the beauty and attractiveness of those who fall under "sexy" cosplay while still providing them the respect they deserve as people. While acknowledging their thoughts, feelings, intelligence, etc. This is why you often see the whole "Cosplay is Not Consent" mantra floating about the community - it's cause some (sadly) have to be reminded that just 'cause someone's in a skimpy costume or dressed up as your favourite "sexy" character; it isn't an invitation for harassment, whether in a physical con space or online. These women are also exerting choice and independence over their bodies; and thus actively participating as a sexual "subject" rather than object. And if it boosts their confidence to take pride in their sexuality, and there's no harm being done to others or themselves; I honestly don't see anything wrong with the act. Hope that clears up stuff - from my perspective at least! 🙂 It's an interesting discussion to be had I've seen other insightful takes (probably better articulated, too) on the subject, but that's my two cents!
Actually from someone who been learning things in life u arent wrong what they are doing is very hypocritical and defeat every point of their logic. Heck to the point where these cosplayer just do straight up porn and stop cosplaying and done. Heck jessica literally got famous for being sexy not cause her cosplay even if there was no effort that is fine but it was only just because she was sexy and if u actually look at it female cosplayers are sexually objectifying themselves to this idea not just from their followers but cause other other cosplayers like these by bragging about how much they are making or encourage or give them this idea and calling it empowering which is just kinda lying or just sugar coating it. Heck it happened to someone i know where both the followers and other cosplayers she was influenced into this life style where all she cared was just the money and willing to meet up with random sexy cosplayers she doesnt even know at all and act like if they are best of friends. Like me and her arent close at all but it still bothers me cause that ist how friends work and also this isnt a healthy mindset to be giving to people at all or to females in general it just defeats what feminism been fighting for just because sex sells. Just because it does doesnt really means it should be encouraged or be a food thing at all cause we are denying the truth of why it is a problem.
@@ana-isabel but yet that is literally what female not all cosplayers are doing now. Where they cant even form a real following or friends or support or anything without being sexualized. Like a twitch streamer can brag about her stream but no one would actually care which shows the "i have a brain and talent" example but they will be forcing themselves to wear sexual things like leggings that shows booty or shirts to show their boobs and cleavage and Jessica was a good example for that where in one of her newer vids she did make a cosplay but she knows that people only came to see the sexy stuff not her talent. And i agree she got talent but she should focus on that and being herself than just sexy clickbait instead. Like no hate but i dont really like her as much or respect. Not like i hate her to death or wish her bad or if i talk to her in public i would be respectful and talk to her as a person lile everyone else way. But do i like what she does do? No not really where not much talent but she did shown some which i wish she did at first instead cause not only that she somehow is the greatest cosplayer for literally no reason but some woman who is equal to her but doesnt show her body cause she is confident and doesnt need to be sexy or revealing or half naked to get following or support or for confident. That shows she is more empowering than her but she doesnt get any respect or love as equal which is a real thing. Compare a sex cosplayer to a regular cosplay who can look sexy but doesnt have to or want to cause she have a personality and wants to be herself and have fun than be something for sexual fantasy. There is a bigger difference i dont think shaming them is every right at all cause that is sick but glamorizing it isnt right at all and just wrong. Like if a woman wants to feel beautiful or sexy that is their choice yes but why tho? Isnt the point of cosplaying is to be u and have fun? Yes so no one should worry about looking bad or good but cosplayers say these things but do a bad job at showing or teaching it where they do worry alot which is kinda sad. Cause imagine all those hard workers who do make good cosplays but not satisfied at all tho? It isnt a good thing to be teaching at all heck someone can gett all the details right for a cosplay but still dont feel right at all. We need to do a better job. Like with this sexy cosplay thing. Like woman of all color and shape should feel proud of their bodies and feel sexy without actually objectifying themselves by where lingerie or literally bikinis or anything revealing on purpose. Like cammy white someone cosplay as her if u look at it, it wont be real sexy but not in a negative way. Being sexy isnt bad but if that is all u want then it is a issue. But the cosplay yes it is a bodysuit but isnt real something to be sexy but very normal cause all girls wear it but a sexy version of that from a ph st is a big difference with the original. Like starfire original design it is very sexual af but compare that in real life turns out it can and cant work but compare that to a sexy one is a bigger difference.
@@ana-isabel There's nothing wrong with objectification, at all. People do it all the time, not even just sexually. I see my boss as the thing that gives me money for doing my job. I see the cashier as the thing that helps me pay for my groceries. I see my landlord as the thing that'll kick me out of my apartment if I don't give her the rent on time. There are men who will get together with women for sex and nothing else, and there's nothing wrong with that. If you want me to see you as a person and with respect you have to earn that privilege. I'm not gonna respect you just because you say I should, that's not how life works. Do something worthy of respect, and I'll respect you.
Quote: "There seems to me to be a disconnect with women here. On the one hand they don't want to be treated as objects. They rail against being stigmatized for being women. "I have a brain, too", is a common refrain. Playboy went through 50 years of hell from feminists over these conflicts. Now we have women who want to dress up in sexy costumes to get attention. Who proudly want to show how sexy they can look. Is this not a contradiction? Is this not wanting to have it both ways?" This comment only makes sense if women have a hivemind or if you're talking about individuals holding both opinions. Different people (so also different women) have differing opinions. One woman dressing up sexy does not invalidate another woman's wish not to be treated as an object. Nor does it mean that the woman dressing up sexily wants to be treated as an object. The wish to be treated as a human being, regardless of attire, doesn't sound unreasonable to me. Playboy "going through 50 years of hell" seems a bit hyperbolic to me. I really doubt they cared even one bit about the opinion of feminists.
Just started watching your videos. Weird how TH-cam works. I enjoyed your MPDG deconstruct video. As for cosplay, I still can't believe sexualization is still an issue. I am guilty of gatekeeping (car community). Eventually I matured and learned to accept that some folks find joy in different things. Nowadays we live in echo chambers across social platforms that we forget that not everyone agrees with our opinion/perspective.
Hey, when I do my cosplay of Superman arch-nemesis, you better believe my Lex is more Sex Luthor than not! Just let people cosplay what they want, how they want! Stop with all the gate-keeping!
I gess you can say the main issue with gatekeeping and such is the fear of being exploited, being seen as nothing more than a way to make a cheap buck. While I like sexy cosplays and don't mind casual fans and such, there is that sense of being used rather than appreciated. I don't think it's men kicking women out because it's "for men" or a "boy's club," but that through growing up, girls rejected boys who had these interests, so it comes off as "all of a sudden" or "too good to be true" that there are girls who share the same interests as what was considered a boy's thing. Now, there's no way people who put in that much effort to even try to be as accurate as possible in cosplaying as a character is doing it _only_ to exploit a community, I'd assume. Some women want to be sexy, but also like geek culture at the same time, and may not intend to come off as exploiting or using any community as a product.
You are so right; of course if you dress up it's for attention; only done cosplay once myself but wanted to do it again and hopefully turn up to my conventions with a better cosplay. But it is nice if somebody recognises what you are and says; "hey that's a nice costume.."
Yes! The "they do it for attention" always made me laugh because cosplay is inherently a social hobby!
She's just dressed like that for attention. The dude in the $1000 homemade Batman suit though, he just wants to be left alone.
Let's be real, the types of people who "get mad" at these girls are mad at them for exactly two reasons. They gave them a boner and won't fuck them.
I mean, I haven't been in any hobby where there isn't anyone saying"they do it for the attention". It even happened when I started on Vampire The Masquerade on the 90s even when it was all it all was about
@@TheBlarggle Louder for the people in the back!!!
@@crazeeaz I mean, a good Batman cosplay isn't seen.
It is so sad that people need to be reminded that the entire reason social media exists is so people can make cries for attention. Don't try to shame cosplayers for "attention-seeking" when publicly calling them out on it in social media is just your own form of "attention-seeking"
Can see your point, hypocrisy. Everyone hates that.
Funny enough Christina Ricci who played Wednesday did grow up and cosplayed as a sexy Morticia
Omg that is weird🤣
And fun fact, in the original series Morticia dressed as Wednesday before her wedding.
Morticia was always sexy. Christina Ricci just emphasized it differently with her cosplay.
There is no non-sexy version of Morticia, TBH.
Lol sexy Morticia. Redundant.
Regarding one of your last points, something that seems to come up a bit is that "Nerd" hobbies like Cosplay, D&D, Sci-Fi e.t.c. used to be much more exclusively the realm of the social outcasts. Some of them are having a hard time adjusting to their once niche interests gaining mainstream appeal because they feel like the social pressures that pushed them to the fringes initially, are now pushing them out of what was once a refuge or at least marginalising them within it. This can also lead them to resent the things that generate the mainstream appeal such as sexual content e.t.c. Two thoughts on this 1) People as a whole aren't really out to co-opt anyone's safe spaces, they're just interested in this thing they weren't before - so there's no maliciousness (if anything, sometimes the new recruits are kicking themselves for not discovering this new interest sooner) 2) The universe doesn't care how you feel about something, things change and you have to make good with it within yourself for your own peace of mind.
I LOVE this comment. Thank you for pointing all this out - you said it better than I ever could! Just because once-niche interests gain mainstream appeal and gain "new recruits" off its popularity doesn't necessarily mean their out to push "old fans" out of their refuge. Both can exist at the same time, I don't see why it was it to be one way or another. People tend to forget that but you're absolutely right with having to learn to make peace with how cultural interests/trends evolve. :)
For me, it was an interest in computers. At school, in the 1980s, I was ridiculed as a nerd and a poindexter for my interest in writing BASIC programs on my Tandy TRS-80 Color Computer and knowing how to work the school's BBC Micros.
Now the games industry is massive, a comnputer game is the most profitable work of all time, everyone's using their mobile phones in ways I was doing 20 years ago, everyone's on the internet and a computer is seen to be at least as essential as a TV.
Your perspective is pretty damn good, yet I would add you have to be careful of people's red flags within a scene and remove yourself from them before they cause trouble. Since I've learned too often when you call out somebody popular for being legitimately bad towards you and or others sometimes people will turn on you. I do say you need to police your scene to keep creeps and abusive people out. Yet sometimes the best thing to do is simply enjoy wha you like about it instead of riding the whirlwinds other people get swept up in.
To add to this, I understand and used to have the feeling frustration due mainstream attention and the "popular" people who enjoy the property, but the "wrong way" where they enjoy more surface level of the property - i.e. that they're "fake fans" who take focus away from the more involved stuff.
A good example for me was Attack on Titan. I picked it up pretty soon after it started to get translated and thought a lot of it. While I thought it was cool to see it get the first season of the anime, I had felt it was strange when you'd see uniforms and cloaks being mass produced and worn by the end of the year. Some of these people just enjoyed it for the action or the clothing aesthetic, caring nothing for the deeper mysteries of the world or darker hints at "something more" going on.
It took a little bit for me to realize that there was no "wrong way" to enjoy a property. I'm not sure what caused me to change my perspective. Maybe it was just a gradual thing as I grew up, matured, and being an adult teaching me that focusing on how other people enjoy something is a total waste of my time and energy.
@@Darklordiban7 Yeah, there's a point where you kinda start to "mute" out the fans you don't like because it's like "whatever, let'em live" yet there's a point where some "fans" become so toxic to newer and older fans. They need to move on because how they're acting is just a bad look on the scene. Since we know how the loudest people get the most notice too often and not all noise is good.
Straight up, I'll just confess that I had some of that shallow view on sexy-cosplays that were mentioned, so this was quite enlightening. Bit of an eye opener. Nicely done.
Aw, thank you! 🙏 Glad I could offer a different perspective. 😊 Not gonna lie, I used to have a negative mindset on all this too. Took me a while to realize that I was likely just projecting my insecurities; and these cosplayers were simply expressing their love for the hobby in their own way.
@@ana-isabel well that is a a lie. U only doing that not cause of insecurity at all. U are just pandering cause u might be having friends who do that but u dont want to be calling them out or be honest about it cause u think it is gonna hurt their feelings which is literally lying. Being insecure is literally purposely objectify yourself for attetnion. There is no empowerment. This is a real thing that both men and women do. It is just gets worse when u have to be half naked or make porn to get that attetnion. Which is a real thing and shouldn't be encouraging people like this at all cause all u are doing is making it worse.
@@kuggacouragegx6093 yikes. Guys and girls can cosplay however they want. If you have an issue with that, it's more a reflection of your own inner insecurities.
People need to remember that "play" is still part of "cosplay".
It can be a profession but it is primarily about having fun.
Idiots in the Geek scene: How dare they change the female designs in FFVII to be less overly sexualized.
Also idiots in the Geek scene: Why are all these cosplays so sexualized. Hot girls are ruining everything.
It's almost like the geek scene consists of vastly varying people with vastly varying opinions or something.
Men get really mad when they can't control the appearance of women.
they'd defend the artists who drew or designed those sexy female characters under "artistic expression" but they also gatekeep women from coplaying them
Horny geeks are confused.
@@ArianneCriseyde Got proof of that, because it seems like different people to me.
Women being in control of their
sexuality MEANS THAT SOME WOMAN WILL CHOOSE TO BE SEXY.
Yes women are often over sexualized in media, but that doesn’t mean women are any ‘less’ for choosing to make themselves sexy!!
Exactly this
That literally made no sense
@@user-vi4gs6nq5r true
My thoughts as someone who someone who used to dislike Jessica Nigri is that I didn't see the point is cosplaying a character whose costume you supposedly love if you're only going to wear as little as possible of it, and it was annoying when hers were basically the only pictures coming up in searches and she was the only talked about as it seemed like there was no other way to be seen as a talented cosplayer. Either you were sexy or it wasn't even worth trying, which made me feel jealous and defeated. Over the years I've slowly started to realise it's not true and everyone can cosplay, which helped me accept the sexy cosplayers as well. I'm still not interested in their thing but why they do it and all that is up to them. In short you make a lot of good points.
Thank you :) To be honest, I did have these sentiments once upon a time as well. But as you said - I grew to realize that hey, they're totally free to do their own thing just as I'm free to do me. The coscom has grown into a pretty large community over the years with varying sub-sects of cosplays and the "sexier" costumes sure do have their fans; but it doesn't mean that other types can't exist at the same time, and have their own respective fanbases.
I used to have a major issue with this when I first noticed it being a trend, and it was mainly a knee jerk reaction for a few reasons. I'm glad I'm over it but hope this helps other people understand what is causing their personal hostility toward This. I also just thought it's interesting that male sexy cosplay is never really heard of.
1.) Was the idea of exploitation of my passion for their personal gain, it felt like seeing a product placement ad in the marvel movies. while cosplay was always a bid for attention the sexier side felt more like a look at me, instead of a look at how I can bring this media to life.
2.) You bring up a great point about this being an identity for a lot of people who were bullied for the hobby feeling attacked because their space is being "stolen" and it's now cool. There is a level of transference that occurs toward people because they look or act like those who would bully geeks 5-10 years ago. you can see this happen during the super bowl, "oh now you a fan of team x.... right......."
3.) A lot of men feel jealous and annoyed that sex sells. Just because you look a certain way or act a certain way money is being thrown at you. when the person dressing up could be wearing any clothing cut that way and still have a following you're not promoting the genres, you're promoting yourself.
4.) Finally, I think of it as a conditioned behavior. Older generations tend to view fandom as a socially abnormal personality type (especially females) so when they meet a female nerd a conflict occurs. It's a learned behavior showing off your fandom in a public space is somehow wrong so it is met with fear, suspicion, and sometimes downright hostility.
I agree with this sentiment, but I just changed my thought to that's a good alternate cosplay. But I wouldn't award them the best of that character. Not that my opinion matters anyway.
Yeah I dont really have a problem with Jessica Nigri on a personal level, but me and my boyfriend have had to mute her on social media platforms because of just how prolific her content is. Her lewd pictures are shared all the time in communities we enjoy and we simply don't want to be browsing social media in public and be pelted with lewd content just to participate in our nerdy communities. Like there is a time and a place and I wish there was a nsfw flag on twitter like there is on reddit where you dont have to be exposed to lewd content unless you specifically go looking for it. Which I think is partially why belle delphine got into some hot water recently for her rape-play pictures on twitter. If someone you follow like or even just follows her there is a chance you can be exposed to that content and possibly triggered. Thats pretty much my most negative take on the subject
So u were lied to and now just gonna pander to lies?
Look nerds, after decades, you finally have a slew of sexy women joining your hobbies dressing as some of your favorite characters and you’re complaining about it?! Also, I’ve been to plenty of Ren Faires with half naked Spartan men traipsing about (even though that’s over 1000 years before the Renaissance). Fit men do it, too. And there’s nothing wrong with that.
Also, I’d like to re-emphasize how hard it is to maintain an in-shape body. I appreciate you mentioning that this isn’t easy! Dieting and exercise are tough.
The sexy women join the hobbies and that makes it feel like high school again. In the mtg scene most of us weren’t lookers and the focus was not on looks. It’s not as if the sexy women as you call them will want to do anything with us.
Then again, some might. It just feels like high school again. In a world that is so focussed on looking conventionally good, it was nice to have a community where that was not a focal point in social dynamics as we all were not the best looking of socially awkward. With the influx of social and conventionally good looking people arriving at the scene, the social dynamics we tried to flee from come to our safe haven.
At least, that’s how it feels to me. There also is quite a bit of bitterness to it. It also has an element of jealousy to it.
I hope that these "conventionally good looking" cosplayers you encounter don't have the same attitudes as their mean girl, high school counterparts. They might look like those same people, but the resemblance I hope is only skin deep. For all you know, they might have come from a more 80s "jocks and nerds" background and hid that nerdy side of themselves in favor of the standard model that let them feel safe. They could also be a bit older and now feel confident in their bodies and want to show them off after years of lacking that confidence and putting in work to change them. That being said, everyone should feel confident in their bodies.
You said the social dynamics you tried to flee came to your safe haven. Are these "hot" cosplayers being mean or dismissive or rude? If so, blame those individuals. I'd also suspect some of that attitude, especially for women, comes from the whole reason we had to have a "cosplay is not consent" movement. If they seem standoffish, it might be because they might simply be wary of sexual advances.
I sympathize with you. I grew up a classic band nerd and my niche, Mystery Science Theater 3000, wasn't how I was going to appeal to most "conventionally sexy" girls. But I think just being more confident in myself helped. Rejecting bitterness and jealousy helps, too.
"joining"
Let's not get crazy lol
Honestly I'm just a casual cosplayer and I feel nothing but awe when people are comfortable enough to do sexy cosplays. Especially when they are well done.
Cosplay is for everyone and that ranges from babies in Pikachu onesies to old men as Master Roshi. But I hope that I am not in any way ageist when I say that young women should do as MANY sexy cosplays as possible because time and gravity are two heavyweight champs in the ring of life and one day they're both going to give you the KNOCKOUT of your life, lol!!! One minute you're cosplaying Bayonetta and in the blink of an eye you're cosplaing Kaede from InuYasha, lol!!!
Why u lying?
Female characters in video games wear bikini armours.
Salty guys: That's not sexualising women. That's just how game culture!
Female cosplayer wears the same bikini armour
Salty guys: hOt WoMeH aRe RuInInG cOsPlAy!!!
Idiots will always be idiots.
sounds about right
Imagine being such a femcel you get angry at video games characters being hotter than you 😂😂😂
If being sexy makes me happy I'm gonna do it bruh
I do think there's a difference between cosplaying as a sexy character and sexualizing a character through cosplay. Imo if making fanart of a canonically not overtly sexual highschool character in a tiny bikini is problematic, then so is cosplaying that character in a tiny bikini.
I agree
@@kuggacouragegx6093 now I agree with you and everyone here that crap is disgusting and anyone who defends lollipops are terrible human beings
@@devikabhat2615 so u just defended pedos🤦
@@kuggacouragegx6093 I DID NOT!! I think that's disgusting too. I'm talking about the cosplayers cosplaying characters that are NOT underage
@@devikabhat2615 ok
as a wise man hopped up on pills once said "why always with the fighting"
"Click..."
I feel like this is a reference
Hi Ana! This is Chris, the guy that did the study on harassment in the cosplay community you talk about around 3:25. Just wanna say hi and throw in my two cents! :)
This was actually the thesis research for my MA program in sociology. I was horribly embarrassed by how BAD this study was (it's common for people in academia to be ashamed of their theses/dissertations, lol) so when a friend of mine told me that my research got cited in a TH-cam video, I was giddy with excitement. What I was actually originally going for with this study was trying to figure out how female cosplayers deal with harassment and stigma on the con circuit. I literally do not know a single female cosplayer who does not have a cringey harassment story. This really isn't discussed in the literature on cosplay all that much though, which blew my mind and made me want to do a study on it to try to illuminate how badly women are actually treated on the con circuit. The finding about the photos was actually completely accidental and not related to anything I was looking for. It was just a cool finding that I had to share. The ossification of personal identity through exploration of self via cosplay also became a major theme. In other words, a lot of women cosplayers I interviewed said that they actually found themselves through cosplay. Shy, reserved women found confidence and strength through cosplaying as Chun-Li, Wonder Woman, Ada Wong, etc. and became more confident PEOPLE as a result. So while harassment was the main focus of the study, identity ossification was (hilariously) the most significant finding.
Also, omg, this thing is almost 120 pages long, and the bit about agency during the photo shoots is so deep in the findings section that I KNOW you read the whole thing beginning to end. Bless you, Ana. You just gained a subscriber for life.
Hi Chris! I firstly want to genuinely thank you for your insightful study; analytical papers on cosplay are rare enough - much more so those that focus on women's experiences. I learned a ton from your findings and found plenty that brought some of my long-time questions/assumptions to light (i.e. forming your identity/self-esteem through cosplay). It truly was an interesting read - you have nothing to be embarrassed about imo!
Secondly, I never thought you'd find your way here but I'm glad you have! Your research really helped me with this video, so I'm glad I have the chance to personally thank you for your hard work! 😊 Keep being awesome.
I'm a female cosplayer who doesn't have a "cringy harrassment story".
This is adorable. I'm so glad this happened
I hate people who slut shame lewd cosplayers and act as if their existence is literally sacrilege to the fandom like let people express their fandom and creativity in their own way even if it’s not conventional without unnecessary gatekeeping. Like if people can draw lewd versions of characters, people can cosplay said character in a sexy way the entitlement of some people in the community is insane.
I will never understand the mindset of "sexy cosplays cheapens the characters" while also seeing no problem in the characters actually made that way. (Building off of your Starfire example.)
I think a lot of guys deep down know they have little chance with these women, usually because they have these kind of negative attitudes. If the character is within fiction they can project their own fantasy onto them and dream of a scenario where they might get with them. When a cosplayer dresses up as the character to these particular males it is a reminder of all their feelings of inadequacy with real women and them now putting that character beyond their reach. It is a stupid attitude to have and most guys probably don't realize they are subconsciously thinking or feeling this but that is what I think is happening in a lot of cases. They feel their wifu is being taken and they attack.
Ooooh, that makes sense
Yeah men being insecure af is usually the root of all issues and wars see George Carlin’s rant about war and dicks
@@yams.4308 Yeah i think it does to me 2. It strange. Coz i'm still kinda shocked 2 hear d@ it's GUYS? who r complaining?😲
Also, these beautiful, cosplaying women will go home with their hot, cosplaying boyfriends who can put on a superhero costume and the abs underneath are real, lol. Pwn'd in the real world and pwn'd in their fantasies.
I was just about to type something along those lines! XD
To add to it though, I think many nerdy men have internalized this sort of masculinity rat-race. Instead of taking their experiences with childhood bullying and learning to be more compassionate towards other oppressed folks, they internalize the idea that the only thing keeping them from the sex and status of their jock peers is their nerdy interests, while not confronting any of the feelings of entitlement towards said sex and status, criticizing the tear-others-down-to-build-yourself-up strategy for obtaining them, or questioning the idea of women being sexual conquests to gain.
In some extreme cases like Piers Anthony or Isaac Asimov, this mindset can lead to pedophilia or sexual assault, but you tend to see it mostly through a general disdain towards "fake geek girls" or the "cosplay thots" talked about here.
They fear what they don't understand and hate what they cannot conquer.
I had two coworkers once who were in their early 20s. They both looked like non-nerds, and they were friends with each other and hung out with one another outside of work. I would often hear them talk to each other about Dungeons & Dragons, which they always only called "DnD". I then commented to them that they didn't look like the typical DnD players, that they didn't look like nerds. And the guy agreed with me and said that while they weren't football players, they were the more popular students at their school. And then he tells me that recently two nerdy guys have joined their group, and that he's angry about it, and wants to get rid of them. I asked him why he wants to get rid of them. He then looks downwards and wistfully says something I can't remember, but it was like he didn't even know the reason why he didn't want any nerds in his DnD group, he just wanted them out. I've experienced this same thing at university with my high school classmates. The university I attended was located very close by to my high school, so I saw a lot of my old high school classmates in the hallways of my university. The ones who were in jocks/teenyboppers would groan or heavily sigh as they walked past me in the university hallways, whereas they didn't do this in high school. I think the reason why they didn't do that in high school was because in high school, (well, at least at my high school where there were only about 2000 students in the entire school, whereas at university there is like 15 000-20 000), whenever you walk down the hallway, there are maybe at least 5 people you recognise throughout the day, so you are distracted by someone who annoys you EVEN MORE than some nerd, or you are busy ogling the legs of a girl in a miniskirt. Or, it would just be too tiring to heave a heavy sigh EVERY SINGLE TIME you walk past them in the hallway, because then you might have to heave a heavy sigh like 6 times a day! But at university, you might only walk past someone you recognize like once every 3 days. So I think that's the reason why they started to sigh at me in the hallway, when before they didn't.
Also in the article on The Richest website titled "14 Attention-Seeking Cosplayers That Were Exposed As Fake": "They're also promoting an atmosphere which is cruel, judgmental, and competitive, which is totally not in keeping with the original ethos of the community." "The motivation for these people to cosplay is to be the center of attention, and feel like they have power over other people." "They also didn't judge each other or try to compete against one another - they realized that these events and conventions were one of the few places where cosplayers and so-called "nerds" could get together and celebrate the things they loved without fear of being judged." I, as a white person, am not going to go visit a Black hair salon and stand in the doorway and say to a Black customer who is trying to enter the building, "No, you can't come inside, because this is for us Whites only!". I think that is how those two jock DnD players were acting when they wanted to kick the nerds out, and how my university classmates where acting towards me. I actually thought that the jocks and bimbos, once they got into university, would start acting very timid and submissive to the nerds, because they would be in the minority, but they didn't!!! To my surprise, they acted just as entitled, confident, and like they fit in with everyone else, if not more so, than they did in high school! I think that jocks and teenyboppers have a mindset of narcissism. They think that all events and clubs belong to them and should allow entry to them, but they think that all these clubs should expel anyone who isn't like them (just as my classmates wanted to expel me from university).
I can't imagine a point in time when these aspects were not part of cosplay. Going back to the late 70s and early 80s you have Red Sonja, superhero and various Elfquest cosplays that were sexy or sexualized. She Hulk, Tigra, and yes, people sexed up non-sexual characters. To say that this sort of thing is "ruining" cosplay is to imply that it is an element of the hobby that has somehow crept in and perverted the hobby from something that, in all truth, it never was. The sexy is part of the hobby and always has been.
I disagree
@@kuggacouragegx6093 well you’re the minority and entitled to your own wrong opinion, let these people live and don’t judge them do to your own hangups. If they wanna be sexy then let them.
@@chowderwhillis9448 sol et women be objectified after complaining and fighting not to be🤦
@@kuggacouragegx6093 No, women shouldn't be objectified. Yes, women should be allowed to be as sexy as they want to be. There's a big, obvious line between objectification and sexual empowerment.
@@aaronlittle5478 that is the dumbest lime u said. Cause that is a contradictory to your point. That is literally is objectifying. If she wants to it for her partner for the room which people should. That can. There is a big difference. U dont need to be a sex object to be power. There is no such thing as sexual empowerment
What bothers me is when I enter a cosplay content and ALL the judges are female cosplayers who do lew cosplays. I can understand if there's one judge to represent that genre of Cosplay; but not all of them.
When I enter my Game of Thrones costume into a contest I want a cosplayer who's won awards as a seamstress to judge my work.
if I ever decide to make armor out of foam and enter it into a contest with 'said costume'. I want a cosplayer who makes amazing foam armor to judge my work.
Also I'm tired of panels of ALL males judges ONLY picking lewd cosplayers to win contests. There can be a category for best lewd cosplay but they can't always win every single category in a contest.
Its insulting to people who do other genres of Cosplay.
Or we dont have lewd cosplay anymore cause female judges do the same thing.
@@kuggacouragegx6093 That's a serious generalization.
@@devikabhat2615 not it isnt🤦
I mean unless you can prove that said specific female lewd cosplayer judges don’t have such seamstress/craftsmanship skills how do you know said judges aren’t skilled. You can’t base someone’s skill set off of one cosplay you see them do at a panel and even if they only do lewd cosplay it can still take a lot of effort and skill to create certain looks. Any artist of a high skill level would still be able to see the value of a well-made armored cosplay/or whatever genre. I admit certain panels can have biases and if you really feel like the judges at a panel are unskilled that’s a problem to bring up to the con itself for hiring said judges.
@@dan-anhh.8841 Sounds like a excuses
As a woman who primarily cosplays male characters (many of which are are crotchety old/middle aged men who are as far from ‘sexy’ as you can get) I find it really frustrating not just seeing other women go viral for their sexy cosplays but also seeing Cis-men throw together a quick vague approximation of a character they happen to look like & get famous for that when I spent 3 hours on makeup trying to look as much like that character as possible even tho I know my body type & face puts me at a severe disadvantage.
I’m not mad at their success & I want everyone to be able to have fun, I just wish there was more appreciation for the artistry of crossplay. Some genderbends are really creative & awesome, but many of them feel like there was no reason behind it other than ‘well I wanted to be the sexy lady version’ even when that makes no sense for a character.
I don’t see how you can have love & respect for a character, & then change everything about their personality, sense of style, & mannerisms to make them sexier but practically unrecognizable .
Harley Quinn has always been a very sexual character so it’s not weird to portray her a bit more risqué. (As long as you also acknowledge the other equally important aspects of her personality) But a sexy Captain America genderbend often feels disingenuous to me because that’s never been the point of his character or even a character trait. It also feels like the person is implying that the female version of a character HAS to be more scantily clad & sexualized than the male counterpart, just because she is a woman. That really rubs me the wrong way.
Slightly off track thing sort of related to the thing about artsy cosplay, genderbends and appreciating quality of makeup among other thing. I absolutely love seeing before and after pictures of trans people because it's just amazes me how people can change their look so greatly.
(Not at all implying that it's a type of cosplay, just means that a lot of the makeup and changing their look can be similar)
Generally not a bad video but a few things
1) While sex sells, selling sex can be extremely predatory. Many companies exploit both the models in their employ as well as their fans for their own profit. This isn't exclusive to companies either, many models learn to how manipulate people through parasocial relationships to increase their donations / subs / patreon members. The horror stories include underage kids tapping out their parents credit cards to pay for egirls (and this includes cosplay egirls) without cause. Greed exists and we can't act like greed is entirely good, dismissing concerns about monetizing sex as "sex sells lol ur fault if you bought it."
2) The misfits and outcasts are often concerned about losing their community because they were misfits and outcasts due to their own inability to interact socially with other people, not really because of their interests. Their interests were partially a side effect of their inability to interact socially. Some extreme otaku or gamer isn't going to suddenly be normal because everyone else likes anime or video game. They're still going to be neurodivergent and others moving into their space often pushes them out of it. Its like gentrification but for popularity. The popular people decide "nerd things are cool" and suddenly those kids who used to geek out over pokemon are pushed away from pokemon because their geeking out makes others uncomfortable around them.
You are right about some things but you are wrong in trying to portray that it is only a matter of social skills that makes someone unpopular. At my high school, all 8 of the girls in the girls in the white girl out-crowd were also the ugliest 8 girls. Now are you trying to tell me that it's just a coincidence that these girls happened to be the most conventionally physically unattractive? I read that girls will make hierarchies for one another according to physical beauty. I saw a documentary about friendship in childhood, and they did an experiment with kindergarteners. They had the kindergardenters choose the photos of like 5 people in their class whom they'd want to be friends with. The prettiest girl had the most classmates who chose her. The ugliest girl only had one classmate who chose her as someone they'd want in their top 5 friends. I also asked a psychologist about this, and was told that yes, it is looks that can make someone not able to have friends. I've heard two teen girls create a song about how everyone just treats people according to what they look like in high school. That's why I don't think popularity had anything to do with personality (at least for females - for male students, personality was perhaps a bit more important). It has to do with looks. The psychologists Gary Aumiller and Daniel Goldfarb in their book "Red Flags! How to Know When You're Dating a Loser" also say that some men only have friends because they are handsome: the chapter on "the Neglector" is one such guy: "they are often good-looking because less-engaging individuals couldn't be this way and maintain a social life; therefore, only the attractive ever survive with this pattern". These two psychologists consider the handsome man "The Neglector" to be un-dateable. Yet, he has tons of friends! Another profile in the book of someone who was very popular yet has a bad personality is "Mr. Ego". In the quiz/checklist, it says "Very popular in school", "Physically pretty infant/child", "Friends tend to contact him most of time", "Friendships seem shallow and one-sided", "Eyes never look at you", "You cannot get a word in edgewise", "Although this is not intentional, when people start to get a little tired or burned by Mr. Ego's glow, he can get rude or demeaning."
I have to admit that the only thing that sort of bothers me, and mind you this is a personal gripe of mine, is when they take a character that is not "sexy" and try to up the sex appeal with very low effort, like lets say, trying to cosplay as a sexy Doom main character by just wearing a green bikini and a Doom marine helmet.
Why does it bother you. It doesn’t affect your life or anyone else’s life in the slightest. If you’re upset that low effort cosplays get more attention (which they don’t bc the lewd cosplay market is hella competitive) then just support other cosplayers and let people express themselves how they want. Not everyone has to make an amazing cosplay, some people aren’t as crafty too so maybe that’s the best they feel like they can do on their time and budget.
@@dan-anhh.8841 Oh, its very simple. When you like or enjoy a piece of media, you make connections to certain fictional characters, and you can get defensive of said characters, thats how waifu wars get started. Second, I'm not talking about this at an amateur level, and effort is not tied to your resources, but to time, and I actually respect the love and time" people who aren't as crafty", like you said, make some stuff, and this might sound esoteric, but you can see / feel when someone puts the effort in the things they do, like my initial example, buying a green swimsuit and a green helmet and say "ok done", is not something that I would say takes effort. And lastly, I said this is a personal gripe, I'm not about to go on a warpath against cosplays like that either, I'm just not going to, as you said, support them.
Yeah, I also don't understand that. There are a lot of sexy cosplays to do by default. Too many tbh.
This topic kind of has me second guessing a cosplay design of mine.... My personal taste and style is not very modest, and I'm concerned that after I spend hours molding and painting armor that doesn't cover my whole body, people might think I'm just trying to be hot. But then again, there's nothing wrong with wanting my costume to still look good/hot on me, anyway!
I wouldn't pay it too much mind. There will be judgemental pricks no matter what. The important thing is that you are having fun making and presenting your costume. Of course if you want to make the costume more modest for your own sake that's cool. But I wouldn't change it because of those people, many of them don't accept women in geek culture in general. So it's not worth trying to earn their approval.
Regardless of which way you go best of luck with your costume!
TBH I'd think what most reasonable people's problem with the subject is the straight up unironic "thotplayers". I'm talking about the army of Spidergwens, Zero-suit Samus and Divas. The Bikini-with-a-Wig Troupe. A minimal effort crowd that gathers an arguably undeserved amount of attention and money (the main currencies of the cosplay industry). That core group is the one that truly generates the hatred and anger within the community, some might say, with good reason. And is a true tragedy that those who dwell on the grey area, meaning having varying combinations of skill and lewdness (not just peddling geek sex fantasies, like the first group), get flak as collateral damage.
Rest assured, most people who love the Art distinguish the two. Personally I think Jessica Nigri is a prop-making beast, and her Inosuke cosplay made my jaw drop at how good it was. I love cosplay, specially prop-oriented ones, and I follow many skilled men and women, many of whom have sexy stuff on their repertoire! Yet the key component is always a passion for the craft, shown through effort and acquired skill, be it lewd or prude.
I think most people who have a problem with Thotplayers feel they are disrespecting the art they are so passionate about. And sometimes that anger, sadly, spills to adjacent victims.
I think the person who made this video started already from one side of the fence and it showed on how much she attack and defended certain postures and arguments. I'm more fan of neutralist, devil's advocate kind of compositions. This is more of a "In Defense Of..." than it is a "Let's Talk About..." kind of video.
This is my take on it at least.
"Tainting the image of fan art"
Yes, and go below absolute zero. Wait those are things that cant be done.
Wanna chime in and say thanks for putting the links in the description, very insightful and much appreciated
my only complaint about a cosplay would be if the cosplayer didn't give a single shite about the character or franchise they were cosplaying from. for me at least, cosplay shines brightest and best when the cosplayer obviously apart of the fandom surrounding a character. if you don't care for the character you're cosplaying i just don't see a point to it. regardless of whether its sexy or not, cosplay a character you love, not just because their waifu of the week.
Well said. I try not to be negative towards a sexy cosplay, but still have to struggle with a though like "There's a chance that she's just promoting herself with a stuff that popular and doesn't actually cares about the character she's cosplaying.". I have spent a fair share of time in a cosplay community and I know that it isn't a rare occasion.
I guess a lot of people hate when a cosplay is obviously made for money and not a labor of love.
So, people gotta walk around with their CVs to prove themselves worthy?
I've been wearing costumes since I could walk. I don't care what the motivations of other people are, I just enjoy people enjoying what I do.
@@Miraihi well that’s just marketing for ya and I bet you turn a blind eye when an idol of yours promotes something different that they really don’t know about just because they were promoted to.
@@ltlbuddha I agree, you can do whatever makes u happy as long as you aren’t hurting people and animals we’re cool
ngl, I used to think this way when I was younger. I had this mindset of "sex bad" for EVERYTHING. Fast forward to now, in my 20s, I've come full circle into learning about my own asexuality and coming to terms with it, while also feeling extremely more chill about people doing their own thing because they wanna. Heck, half of the time I wish I had the confidence these ladies have.
Me too, honestly heels as well in all these fighting poses.😅
The reason that so many are frustrated with the things we were made fun of for so long suddenly becoming popular is that a lot of the people who suffered for liking this stuff weren't suddenly popular when it went mainstream. A lot of people struggle to face the fact that the reason for their lack of popularity is more to do with their generally shitty and misogynistic personalities, when they used to just chalk it up to "people just don't like the geeky stuff I like".
Just want to say as a male cosplayer: I've probably made more money selling commissions than many if not most "lewd cosplayers/thots" do trying to sell their sets, and I never exactly sell or post "sexy" photos either, all my modeling has always been to sell the quality of my work to entice people to order commissions and after some time it just kinda took off and kept selling itself (the fact that 90% of my market has been female cosplayers is interesting to say the least... I guess there's a niche appeal to having a straight dude make you a custom tailored cosplay? XD)
Will further add that knowing a lot of said "cosplay thots" personally, there's a dark side to that market in that even well long before the pandemic it was already saturated and very competitive, many of my friends in that market would work tooth and nail spend lots of time and money on outfits and photographers just to barely break even and find they make better money working part time at McDonalds
People that complain about cosplays that aren't wearing enough clothes etc never made sense to me. Like Jessica's junk rat cosplay for instance, dudes not wearing a fuckin shirt in the game so why would you? At least she covered up the important parts.
Hey! My friend just shared this with me! Thanks for the feature at 7:51! I've used my work to make the same point a number of times in the past. 👾💚
I recognized almost every cosplayer she showed in this video and I love them all! Awesome to see the recognition!
TL;DR Jealously breeds hatred and not everyone was born with a body to show off a lewd cosplay outfit or has the skills to attract that man/woman in said outfit, therefore haters will hate and lash out in envious contempt.
I found your channel recently and I've been enjoying your videos on the topics of nerd culture and cosplay! Your videos are super insightful and eloquently worded and definitely challenge me to re-think a lot of previously held assumptions and biases, so thank you for that!! This video topic in particular was super challenging for me because I'm of two minds.
On the one hand, as someone who grew up passionate about "nerd culture" (mostly on the anime and fantasy end of things) and feeling ostracized and, frankly, undesirable by boys/men as a result, it's very difficult for me to see nerd culture gain popularity in the last several years, and see the rise of a lot of these "sexy cosplayers" gain attention (perhaps more so than more "traditional" cosplayers). There was a point in time where all I'd see in the cosplay community (read: all that seemed to be featured on cosplay pages) were sexy/lewd cosplays. Honestly, it got exhausting. On the surface, it absolutely looks like they're capitalizing on something popular/cool/relevant, especially when I see sexy cosplays of characters who are never portrayed in the original as being sexual/sexy/"slutty" - it just feels disingenuous to portraying the original character (especially if the original character design isn't sexy/lewd). To be honest, in some ways it does feel a bit like a betrayal of franchises/characters I love to see them "reduced" to predominantly slutty iterations on Instagram/at conventions (I see this less now than a few years ago when cosplay/nerd culture really took off in the mainstream). And yes, I realize I do have a lot of years of internalized misogyny that I need to unpack and undo! I am working on this!
On the other hand, you absolutely brought up some really great points - cosplay is hard work and takes a LOT of time and money, especially if you're making your costume by hand! And we should absolutely celebrate the work that goes into cosplaying, regardless of whether it's a sexy cosplay or a more traditional/accurate depiction of the character. Because, like you said, the community should be happy that nerd culture/cosplay is mainstream. It's never been easier and more accessible to buy cosplays or learn to make your own. Anime is streaming on Netflix and Disney+, and, like you said, comic book movies are topping the box office. New fans are joining fandoms all the time. This is a great thing! We're seeing so much more diversity in the cosplay space too as a result, which is also amazing! I heard things growing up like, "Oh, I don't cosplay because I won't be able to make myself look exactly like the character", but now we're seeing so many more creative interpretations of characters, and you can see that people do it to genuinely have fun, which, at the end of the day, is the point!
Anyways, if you made it this far, thank you for taking the time to read my essay! I really love your content and I look forward to more videos from you! 😊
Just found your channel through the manic pixie video and been bingeing your videos!
Have to say your edits, pacing, sense of humor and articulation is so good and looking forward to seeing more!
Amazing content!
Imagine being mocked for liking something not considered cool by a someone whom claimed it was stupid and childish, only find out that very same person was making money pretending to like what they mocked others for.
THIS
Random thought that Chimeral CosplayArt clip looks amazing. I have no idea how you make wings to look like that and it's impressive.
Speaking of the additional work required even for non-complicated/non-armor-based cosplays, YOUR EYESHADOW IS ON POINT THOUGH 😂
You my friend, have earned my respect. You also earned another subscriber.
Doesn't bother me at all! I'm a little jealous that they're so hot, but congrats to them! They work hard to maintain those figures and, yeah, it IS brave to walk out of the house like that. They're doing what they love and making money.
They aint working hard
@@kuggacouragegx6093 then what is working hard, when it comes to cosplay?
@@keribere244 let me see? Actually putting work on the cosplay, even if u bought it. Not just using cosplay as a way to be a thot
@@keribere244 it's cosplay, other than making a costume you'll wear once there's not much "hard work" involved loc
This is a really good TH-cam channel. Amazing work and writing.
5:27 okay so I’m a pre everything trans guy for context for when I say “I’m a dude BUT”-I used to work at a cosplay restaurant. One of my characters was Poison Ivy and I went through a variety of costumes for her and one of them was wearing these green jeggings and a pair of green tights or fishnets cut into a top underneath one of the dresses. I waited on a table and it was great and all but the dad or grandpa or whoever he was complimented me for my “modesty” cuz usually people cosplay Poison Ivy in a very “sexy/sensual/skimpy” manner. It was the weirdest comment I got for my poison ivy cosplays. And the reason I wore so many layers? I had to run food, serve tables, run around, it was a family friendly restaurant, and the dress I was wearing at the time wasn’t one I was comfortable wearing alone cuz I wasn’t comfortable with having to readjust my costume so much. And with weight fluctuations my costumes would sit difffently on me so lots of my costumes had various layers to make sure I either have the impression of having green skin or to cover my ass in 20 layers so some random mom who requested poison ivy to be her server for her kids wouldn’t complain. Never mind Poison Ivy is a femme fatale known for her most famous costumes being sexy/pin up style and her being a bombshell. 🙄
Oh rad, I was really enjoying your pop culture analysis and had no idea you were a cosplayer! Its almost been a year since cons ended (as an artist I miss them).
Oh man, cons seem like they took place an era ago - miss them too :( Had some in-progress costumes shelved since.
@@ana-isabel did I hear in the vids you’re in Australia? Here in the states the cons keep postponing which I fully understand. I’d like to believe we can get the vaccination rollout happening by winter but anything before then is gonna be real risky given how bad the infection rates are. The thought of 30,000 people in a space seems unreal now.
I found your channel today and your videos are great, so here’s another comment to boost you for the algorithm! 😊
Personally I don't like seeing over sexualized stuff and seeing people just go for the "sex sells" route makes me feel kinda disappointed. But I can always just... ignore them, pretty simple. I'm not obligated to see what they're doing, it's their lives not mine so they can do whatever they want. Sometimes it's good to remember to stop watching over other people's lives and focus on yours
Excellent as always.
This video is so well made in both the editing, the points you make and the research you've evidently done beforehand. I'm glad I found your channel :33
Not much to add, just a big ol' agree, wanted to drop a comment to appease the algorithm. Keep up the awesome content 👌
Your content is fabulous. The whole package just ... works
As a hobbyist, I don't care if others want to do sexy or lewd cosplay. I even follow a couple of "sexy" cosplayers' public/SFW content because I enjoy the work they do and their personalities. Sometimes I feel a bit of envy because I work in a very conservative job and I have to be really careful about what I choose to cosplay. Anything that could be considered lingerie, swimwear, or even mildly provocative is off limits to protect my image in case anyone manages to associate my cosplay persona directly to my irl identity. Even just being associated with cosplay can be a problem because it's fairly frequent that all a stranger will know of cosplay are hot cosplay models who have managed to spin their hobby into a career or the cosplay porn stuff. Mostly, I just tell people I like to sew and make elaborate fantasy costumes.
5:48 god, I love this photo so much!
would've been funny out of context but in the context of the video it's so much more....well done Ana!
I am a year late to this video but whatever, I'll still chime in because this is one of the aspects of cosplay I always love to discuss!
Personally the only "problem" I can find with erotic cosplay or straight up NSFW cosplay photos/videos circulating platforms is the fact that most platforms simply don't provide the tools to keep the stuff away from minors' eyes. Sure, you can hashtag stuff, but that doesn't ensure that your content won't end up mixed with SFW cosplay content. This is the only problem I can find in all this, that the stuff ends up in spaces where it not only is shown to, but also has a chance to influence minors to think that the only way to get attention for your cosplay is to add sex appeal to it. A rather mixed signal when combined with statements like "anyone can cosplay any way they want and be valid" and "everyone should cosplay for themself", at least in my opinion.
Personally I'd prefer if erotic cosplay was it's own genre, separated from "just cosplay", beginning with the fact that the target audiences are rather different. From what I've seen from the comments on erotic cosplay pictures, it would seem that the majority of the audience who follow erotic cosplayers are there more because of the eroticism, and less because of the cosplaying, meaning that the target audience is likely to be not only adults, but more specifically non-cosplaying adults.
There's nothing wrong with this setting in my opinion, as the cosplayers have made that choice and are consenting adults, but just like we don't put out regular p0rn0graphy for minors to see, shouldn't the same sentiment apply with this? Why should the erotic cosplay content be pushed together with the non-erotic cosplay content, when the other is rather obvious in its' appeal strictly to adult audiences?
Just my few cents on the topic, sorry for the length 😅
I say if anyone doesn’t like it, don’t look at it.
I think a lot of it is the stigma that nerd culture has had over the years, that only recently has become mainstream. You see media from the past decades and you see the stereotypical nerd characters getting picked on, bullied, turned down by the "hot girl", that sorta thing. So media built this image that nerds look a specific way with certain behavior and mannerisms and in general, being a nerd is detrimental to your social standing or played for laughs. Those kinda tropes have had a lasting impact on those who grew up with them, and thus the hobbies seen as "nerd" became niche and when it broke out of the that niche, the gatekeeping started. People who were not seen as the stereotypical nerd or adhered to the tropes of being a nerd are "fake". But society is ever evolving and this is the first real generation of kids that grew up in a more media heavy era since media is easier than ever to get a hold of compared to before. These niche nerdy things we grew up with are readily available now, and not just a 1 time broadcast that if you didn't catch it, you missed out. And with more of a focus on media preservation now, and the weaponizing of nostalgia by Hollywood, those niche's can be enjoyed by everyone now. I guess it's just remnants of that mentality that haven't been burned out of societal norms, the old man yelling at kids to get off his lawn if you will.
I actually did not know all this went into Cosplay! I always thought it was an outfit, make up, and a good camera. Didn't know about peoples exercise routines and photoshoot sessions. Seems like a lot of work but if people enjoy it, I'm glad they're happy.
exercise routines shouldn't be part of cosplay.
I just subscribed!! Good video. I have tons of friends on Instagram who do L00ds and I think they're beautiful. It's about supporting the artist. When we buy their photos we are not buying them. WE ARE BUYING THEIR ART period
Ahhh thank you so much! 🥰 And yessss, I agree. People tend to dismiss the creativity/effort that still plays a part in the more sexualized aspects of cosplay.
It seems like to me similar to what I have experienced in the art world. People only see the finalized versions and not the progress that went into it.
I am a graphic & web designer; have numerous clients tells me it isn't good or just out right bad since they only see the final version. I could show how much work goes into it, but I doubt it would change their minds.
I have learned to try and see the big picture before jumping on the emotion first think later wagon.
So I'm sure a lot of women do it because they want to and it makes them money. But I also think about booth babes, who have no connection to the work, who are just being paid. It makes me think of like the difference between starting an OnlyFans and doing sex work/something sex work adjacent for an employer. A lot of these industries can be exploitative for women: they don't have unions, they're often underpaid/overworked/mistreated, and they don't always have legal protections if things go wrong. How do we ensure that these women can draw a steady income and have worker protections, in what's a pretty new field?
I remember taking my two sons to the Brisbane Exhibition Centre comic-com, the cosplay was awesome to see, you can see the effort that goes into the hobby.
Holly Fox... ahaha my name is Holly Wolf silly!
Love the video, not sure how it just showed up on my timeline now, but I’m assuming you pulled this from my TH-cam channel! I wanna know where the fox came from ahaha
OMG, that's embarassing - so sorry! I never noticed until now but I honestly think it was just a brain fart - I'm guessing 'cause I mentioned Katyuska Moonfox previously and slipped lol. I fixed this in my description :)
@@ana-isabel ahaha all good! I was like wait a minute who the heck calls me that! Lollllll
@@HollyWolf Slip of the mind. She's got the vapors for you. Admiring the foxyness.
shit idk why people even care.. live and let live..
your take on this was really interesting to hear! it’s so frustrating to see people online pseudo-policing cosplayers about what they should wear/post. on the other hand, and a more personal side, i’m a cosplayer and i feel discouraged when sexy characters or sexualized versions of characters get the most reach/attention on social media. no hate to the creators, as most of them are talented and lovely, but it feels extremely discouraging when washboard abs, tiny waist, and a conventionally attractive face are the main selling points of a cosplay instead of the actual costume. i recognize that i’m in a place of privilege as a white cosplayer too, so i can’t imagine how some poc cosplayers feel when comparing themselves to the likes of Jessica Ngiri, for example. it’s turned into a cycle of hating my own cosplays because i feel so unattractive, unconfident, and gross compared to other cosplayers.
Woman wtf are u talking about? Privilege? Of what?. And who care about race. It doesnt matter. Like why are u bringing race what. U are just pandering
I think the problem here, like I mentioned on your gate keeping video, is the issues, like so many, run far deeper and is far more complicated than this. No matter how well you, or anyone, covers a topic, they are just far far bigger issues, that people dedicate their whole careers to trying to unravel.
Not an insult to the video, it is a great video as it does bring much needed awareness and balanced point of view to the topic. But like i say, its a bit like focusing on the head ache you have... because you actually have brain cancer.
There are just so many aspects to these kinds of outlooks, problems and their discussions. A lot of what is discussed here could be seen as the symptoms of other, deeper, problems in this particular field, not so much the cause. But they look like a cause, because those actions and outlooks in turn then have their own syptoms and problems. Much like how having a head ache has it's own negative impact on your life and so you blame the headache, before you find out its brain cancer.
Like so many things, there are so many angles to it... the positive sides of this, like any activity or interest, will always have inherently negative ones. Especially when you start adding already complicated topics like sexuality, what that actually is, how its viewed in modern society and where all that comes from, in to the mix.
This argument is the same as the war raging inside comics and games right now, that these characater come from. So it's no surprise interests that spring from other interests will have the same issues, if not worse, because they get boiled down and pushed further, as most sub cultures do. Comic's already take a fair amount of heat due to the over sexualisation issues, both from inside and outside of the comics community. So it's no surprise that when cosplayers take that further, they in turn take the same heat from both inside and outside of their communities.
And all of this is no different to the social wars being waged right now, regardless of the focus.
There are aspects to this I could bring up not even touched upon here, that revolve around the apparent contradictions that all problems seem to have when looking at larger social issues. Because as I say, so much of this is tied in to far larger discussions than cosplay, that just happens to be one of our (as a community) fields of interest, and how we are all facing these larger social issues.
Now I'm interested in what you can add
I think you're hitting at something important here and I would love to see this conversation expanded on.
For example, I don't always wear makeup, but I really like to and find it enjoyable to put my makeup on. There's nothing inherently "wrong" with either wearing makeup or not wearing it. However, and I think this is ultimately the point you're getting to OP, me wanting to wear makeup and liking it does NOT exist in a vacuum. There are years of socialization that make it impossible for me to determine whether or not I still would have liked it without any kind of external influence. And that's just makeup! It's not anywhere near as complex as something like human sexuality.
@@amandaski Somebody got mad at me and hasn't talked to me since when I brought up what you just said. Makeup is fine yet how it is sold and how it "works" isn't really for the person it is for others no matter what. If it looks go it is by design that's the whole point of making a palette. They kept on going it's all 100% their choice. When there's a science to makeup that doesn't include them it's for the observer.
But sexuality is just a mess like I started off as hetero and now I'm asexual/aromantic. People don't think that's possible. Or acknowledge there's a rivalry when it comes to sexual expression. Like women can be sexy and nobody can get upset. Yet a guy does it, it is more seen as a joke or gay. It's a whole mess.
People nowadays always complain and i believe they are jalous aswell they lack any creativity so they lash out too those who have.
In my opinion those cosplayers are masters in their craft a massive amount off respect too them and too you.
Great video👍
"femoids"
Ah, there's that meaningless word again lol
lol imagine seeing someone as sub-human just because they are different than* you
SAMMMEEEE on the 1st topic! 😹💦 Funny enough, when I finally tried out the more skin-exposed characters (heck even the more skintight bodysuits like my Catwoman & Samus), I wasn't even thinking if my body could handle it because of the magic of improvising nyaha!!
If I did, that's one other reason why I'd spend more time making the other aspects of my costume look better than my body.. like the costume itself, the wig, the makeup or props. To divert attention so people can appreciate more than one thing in a cosplay~
YES - cosplay is a collective of so many art forms, they're just all tied to loving/expressing passion for fictional works. Sexy cosplay/modelling is just one of them. But people can definitely appreciate or master other aspects of the hobby like makeup, costume design, prop-making, etc. That's what makes cosplay so exciting! 💖
I’m not involved in the cosplay community more than seeing photos and respecting the craft and art that goes into it. It sounds strange that observers would complain about sex appeal for fictional characters when I knew a lot of folks growing up who over sexualized video game characters and cartoons with very crude and lewd comments.
That should just lead into respecting those who make it an art in real life but yeah....sometimes people suck.
This was informative and interesting to an outsider. Good video. Thank you!
Im flattered that looking hot as a girl pisses people off. Like all it takes is for me to look sexy and boom people are losing it 😂
Really cool video and loved your level approach to the topic. One additional point i've noticed is a notable double standard when it comes to sexy cosplay. Pretty much half the time I see a male cosplayer at a con with an impressive physique, they're wearing an outfit that (adapted for the other gender) would have many female cosplayers labeled as total sluts. The pokeboys from the west coast anime conventions of the 2000'-2010's immediately spring to mind, but they're hardly the only ones.
Aside from stigma, one other thing I've noticed from various conventions is that notable sexy cosplayers like Jessica Nigri are legit inspirations/idols for a lot of other women who got into cosplay. Like full on fangirling upon meeting her levels of adoration, it's honestly kinda adorable.
I honestly cannot believe someone in 2020 saying that looking good in alright
Thank you
As a former cosplay aficionado I used cosplay mainly as a way to know more people with similar interests and engage in the small geek/otaku community of my city. I got to know wonderful people who I'm friends with till today. What I can say is that I had an "elitist" phase in which me and my cosplayers group mainly thought that if you didn't "looka like" certain character you shouldn't even think of cosplaying them (this is sad, kinda fatphobic and discriminatory in a lot of ways, but hindsight is 2020 and I very much hope I learned to be better) and this self regulation just made me don't want to cosplay characters who had abs showing just cause I thought I wouldn't "look as cool" as them ans just overall "ruin" the character (I was at decent shape at the time, just no THAT muscular).
TLDR I used cosplayed and got in an elitist phase that ruined the fun of it, don't do that.
You know I can see both sides of this. I watched your other video as well about Gatekeeping and I've been guilty of that myself. I'm more defined by my interests as a nerd than anything else and sometimes it's hard to give people the respect they deserve for not being as deeply intimate with the source material as I am. That being said on this video topic, I have to say I am not at all a cosplayer but I do enjoy seeing cosplayers bring my favorite characters to life whether they be muggles or "hot cosplayers." I'm not so much into the big name hot cosplayers like Nigri though. Enjoy what I've seen of your content so far though and hope to get caught up.
To some extent, I understand the general feeling behind gatekeeping, it is upsetting to be tricked into thinking someone is like you and then finding out they were faking it for money/attention and don't really respect you. BUT, it's a slippery slope, many people can very easily start getting more and more paranoid and end up attacking legit members of their own community because they start seeing infiltrators everywhere, even where there are none.
Yes, I agree! Very well said!
Thank you so much! :)
Can’t believe this video doesn’t have enough likes ???
This misdirected anger is the product of a society drowning in pornography. It’s pretty understandable to not want a community you feel safe in to be commodified, and the reaction always going to be toxic when it is; since most sub cultures are about finding solace from the relentless advertising, consumerism, or sexual imagery shoved down our throats, the visceral anger makes sense, even if it’s directed at the wrong people. Sex and advertising tends to invade all spaces is all, and brings with it an elitism. So, without agreeing with the hate, it makes total sense to me. Because a professional sex worker appealing to a subculture for profit is definitely going to ruin it. That’s just what pimps and ho’s do to a neighborhood. 🤷🏻♂️
i don't agree with the mindset of "a society drowning in pornography," sex work is real work after all. but i agree with other things you said and you've given me some other things to ponder. thanks~
I'm pretty neutral on it because as a guy I don't mind attractive women in cosplay especially if we are cosplaying from the same thing. I'm not big on the Bikini version of characters tho
The only appropriate cosplay is an amorphous gray blob which shows no defining characteristics and accentuates no part of anyone's anatomy. Think, if the Greendale Human Being were substantially less sexualized. That's the world I want to live in.
Cosplay hobbiest, I don't mind how or what people do with their cosplays (sexy, crossover, generbend, etc) as long as they are respectful to each other in the community. In South Africa we have occasional drama where people push their way into sponsorships where other cosplayers are already there. Our community is decently sized but there's always drama in it. LEWD is the leat of our worries from my perspective. 🤷🏼♀️😅
My only problem with the abundance of sexual cosplayers is just the abundance, not the sexiness. Women who never do sexual cosplays get generally a lot less spotlight and they might feel a strong pressure to be more sexual to increase viewership of their content, especially when so many of the most popular cosplayers do sexy cosplays. Similar to how there aren't as many popular female streamers who don't present themselves sexually just to be more popular, but instead use their humour and personality and knowledge of the subject matter.
I know sexy cosplays don't automatically discredit the non sexy ones, but you can't deny that the sexy ones garner more attention and popularity then a non sexy one which took the SAME level of effort. That's why it feels unfair. Still, we shouldn't entirely blame women for capitalising on this because it is the largely male audience that perpetuates this trend by over-consuming the sexualised cosplay content.
I don’t understand how people don’t like sexy cosplay?! It’s fantastic, please do more
Well said 👏👏💅🏾
Good points!
Thank you! :)
I didn't know that any of this was even a problem. And my God, what's with all the haters in the world, and being mean and hateful toward others and each other? It's like someone or something has sucked all the love and kindness out of these people.
Well. As someone that also is a hobbyist, sometimes I cosplay, sometimes I go for pics and to meet fellow geeks. All cosplay can be cool. Some like the super sexy cosplay the best and draw that attention. I kinda like seeing the super big and poofy outfits the best.
Totally agree! Personally, I enjoy seeing both - though I do admit that I'm drawn to the grand craftsmanship of big, battle armours most as well. 😊 Some cosers like Nigri and Yaya Han are impressive at both, which is awesome!
It seems like the same guys that complain about sexualised cosplayers are the ones that will defend the oversexualisation of female characters in media. It’s fine to CONSUME the sexualised women as long as they’re objects and not real women doing it for themselves, then it’s suddenly a threat to the power dynamic
While I worked with the Melbourne Anime Festival (MAniFest!) our number one rule was nipples and crotch should be appropriately covered for public and you have to have something on your feet. And for the most part, people were happy to comply, the only time we had to turn someone away for their costume was because they were cosplaying "Leeloo Dallas Multipass" reconstruction version, and the straps were not at all as thick as they should be and were very loose and all we could think was "How did you leave the house thinking you weren't going to be arrested let alone get into a con like this?"
My next cosplay is going to be from Hinomaru Sumo, this current situation has really helped me work on my cosplay,
There is one aspect of it that i would be willing to consider valid, the fact that professionals with sponsors are pushing aside the hobbyists, but that's not just with sexy cosplay and not all of sexy cosplay.
it really is dumbfounding getting at people for sexy/revealing cosplay
just wish more photographers wanted to shoot with us guy cosplayers. It’s a bit harder to convince them to do so.
Yeah cause no one actually cares about guys. Now days it is about female being sex objectified not just the consumers but the cosplayers them selves
Have you tried paying them?
You are a well spoken young woman and have well thought out comments. As someone who is relatively neutral about this entire subject I do have a question that I am going to ask out of honest curiosity. There seems to me to be a disconnect with women here. On the one hand they don't want to be treated as objects. They rail against being stigmatized for being women. "I have a brain, too", is a common refrain. Playboy went through 50 years of hell from feminists over these conflicts.
Now we have women who want to dress up in sexy costumes to get attention. Who proudly want to show how sexy they can look. Is this not a contradiction? Is this not wanting to have it both ways? Sex sells and it is no coincidence that for cosplayers who have Patreon accounts what you pay for is access to more skin, more sexy content. Even the name used for these pay to be seen photo shoots are called 'lewds'. (A truly awful term to use, yet it is a popular one that women themselves use to talk about themselves). Nobody cosplays Little Bo Peep to get men to join.
I would be interested in your thoughts about the two sides of this debate. Am I misrepresenting, even unintentionally, what is going on? Are my statements true? Or are they based on misinformation?
Thank you for listening. And Cosplay On!
Thank you so much for the thoughtful comment! You've pointed out some interesting stuff here; on the one hand women wish to look and feel sexy, on the other - they wish to not be objectified.
I do think that perhaps the confusion regarding these seemingly contradicting viewpoints stem from what "objectification" entails. I believe sexual objectification is to view or treat someone without autonomy, with no regard to the thoughts and feelings that make them... a person. To simply see them as a "thing" for their pleasure/titillation.
That said, it's possible to admire the beauty and attractiveness of those who fall under "sexy" cosplay while still providing them the respect they deserve as people. While acknowledging their thoughts, feelings, intelligence, etc. This is why you often see the whole "Cosplay is Not Consent" mantra floating about the community - it's cause some (sadly) have to be reminded that just 'cause someone's in a skimpy costume or dressed up as your favourite "sexy" character; it isn't an invitation for harassment, whether in a physical con space or online.
These women are also exerting choice and independence over their bodies; and thus actively participating as a sexual "subject" rather than object. And if it boosts their confidence to take pride in their sexuality, and there's no harm being done to others or themselves; I honestly don't see anything wrong with the act. Hope that clears up stuff - from my perspective at least! 🙂 It's an interesting discussion to be had I've seen other insightful takes (probably better articulated, too) on the subject, but that's my two cents!
Actually from someone who been learning things in life u arent wrong what they are doing is very hypocritical and defeat every point of their logic. Heck to the point where these cosplayer just do straight up porn and stop cosplaying and done. Heck jessica literally got famous for being sexy not cause her cosplay even if there was no effort that is fine but it was only just because she was sexy and if u actually look at it female cosplayers are sexually objectifying themselves to this idea not just from their followers but cause other other cosplayers like these by bragging about how much they are making or encourage or give them this idea and calling it empowering which is just kinda lying or just sugar coating it. Heck it happened to someone i know where both the followers and other cosplayers she was influenced into this life style where all she cared was just the money and willing to meet up with random sexy cosplayers she doesnt even know at all and act like if they are best of friends. Like me and her arent close at all but it still bothers me cause that ist how friends work and also this isnt a healthy mindset to be giving to people at all or to females in general it just defeats what feminism been fighting for just because sex sells. Just because it does doesnt really means it should be encouraged or be a food thing at all cause we are denying the truth of why it is a problem.
@@ana-isabel but yet that is literally what female not all cosplayers are doing now. Where they cant even form a real following or friends or support or anything without being sexualized. Like a twitch streamer can brag about her stream but no one would actually care which shows the "i have a brain and talent" example but they will be forcing themselves to wear sexual things like leggings that shows booty or shirts to show their boobs and cleavage and Jessica was a good example for that where in one of her newer vids she did make a cosplay but she knows that people only came to see the sexy stuff not her talent. And i agree she got talent but she should focus on that and being herself than just sexy clickbait instead. Like no hate but i dont really like her as much or respect. Not like i hate her to death or wish her bad or if i talk to her in public i would be respectful and talk to her as a person lile everyone else way. But do i like what she does do? No not really where not much talent but she did shown some which i wish she did at first instead cause not only that she somehow is the greatest cosplayer for literally no reason but some woman who is equal to her but doesnt show her body cause she is confident and doesnt need to be sexy or revealing or half naked to get following or support or for confident. That shows she is more empowering than her but she doesnt get any respect or love as equal which is a real thing. Compare a sex cosplayer to a regular cosplay who can look sexy but doesnt have to or want to cause she have a personality and wants to be herself and have fun than be something for sexual fantasy. There is a bigger difference i dont think shaming them is every right at all cause that is sick but glamorizing it isnt right at all and just wrong.
Like if a woman wants to feel beautiful or sexy that is their choice yes but why tho? Isnt the point of cosplaying is to be u and have fun? Yes so no one should worry about looking bad or good but cosplayers say these things but do a bad job at showing or teaching it where they do worry alot which is kinda sad. Cause imagine all those hard workers who do make good cosplays but not satisfied at all tho? It isnt a good thing to be teaching at all heck someone can gett all the details right for a cosplay but still dont feel right at all. We need to do a better job. Like with this sexy cosplay thing.
Like woman of all color and shape should feel proud of their bodies and feel sexy without actually objectifying themselves by where lingerie or literally bikinis or anything revealing on purpose. Like cammy white someone cosplay as her if u look at it, it wont be real sexy but not in a negative way. Being sexy isnt bad but if that is all u want then it is a issue. But the cosplay yes it is a bodysuit but isnt real something to be sexy but very normal cause all girls wear it but a sexy version of that from a ph st is a big difference with the original. Like starfire original design it is very sexual af but compare that in real life turns out it can and cant work but compare that to a sexy one is a bigger difference.
@@ana-isabel There's nothing wrong with objectification, at all. People do it all the time, not even just sexually. I see my boss as the thing that gives me money for doing my job. I see the cashier as the thing that helps me pay for my groceries. I see my landlord as the thing that'll kick me out of my apartment if I don't give her the rent on time. There are men who will get together with women for sex and nothing else, and there's nothing wrong with that. If you want me to see you as a person and with respect you have to earn that privilege.
I'm not gonna respect you just because you say I should, that's not how life works. Do something worthy of respect, and I'll respect you.
Quote: "There seems to me to be a disconnect with women here. On the one hand they don't want to be treated as objects. They rail against being stigmatized for being women. "I have a brain, too", is a common refrain. Playboy went through 50 years of hell from feminists over these conflicts.
Now we have women who want to dress up in sexy costumes to get attention. Who proudly want to show how sexy they can look. Is this not a contradiction? Is this not wanting to have it both ways?"
This comment only makes sense if women have a hivemind or if you're talking about individuals holding both opinions. Different people (so also different women) have differing opinions. One woman dressing up sexy does not invalidate another woman's wish not to be treated as an object. Nor does it mean that the woman dressing up sexily wants to be treated as an object. The wish to be treated as a human being, regardless of attire, doesn't sound unreasonable to me.
Playboy "going through 50 years of hell" seems a bit hyperbolic to me. I really doubt they cared even one bit about the opinion of feminists.
Just started watching your videos. Weird how TH-cam works. I enjoyed your MPDG deconstruct video. As for cosplay, I still can't believe sexualization is still an issue. I am guilty of gatekeeping (car community). Eventually I matured and learned to accept that some folks find joy in different things. Nowadays we live in echo chambers across social platforms that we forget that not everyone agrees with our opinion/perspective.
Hey, when I do my cosplay of Superman arch-nemesis, you better believe my Lex is more Sex Luthor than not! Just let people cosplay what they want, how they want! Stop with all the gate-keeping!
I gess you can say the main issue with gatekeeping and such is the fear of being exploited, being seen as nothing more than a way to make a cheap buck. While I like sexy cosplays and don't mind casual fans and such, there is that sense of being used rather than appreciated. I don't think it's men kicking women out because it's "for men" or a "boy's club," but that through growing up, girls rejected boys who had these interests, so it comes off as "all of a sudden" or "too good to be true" that there are girls who share the same interests as what was considered a boy's thing. Now, there's no way people who put in that much effort to even try to be as accurate as possible in cosplaying as a character is doing it _only_ to exploit a community, I'd assume. Some women want to be sexy, but also like geek culture at the same time, and may not intend to come off as exploiting or using any community as a product.
You are so right; of course if you dress up it's for attention; only done cosplay once myself but wanted to do it again and hopefully turn up to my conventions with a better cosplay. But it is nice if somebody recognises what you are and says; "hey that's a nice costume.."
Australia? I always thought you were Pinay. Maybe because I found you through Dukesa Wolf and Dinny Grayson.
Hehe I am Pinay! :p I just currently live in Australia. 😊