Street Epistemology: Carlos | A Crisis of Faith
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 18 ต.ค. 2024
- San Antonio, Texas
Recorded: 23 (and 25) September 2014
Uploaded: 26 September 2014
Twitter: / magnabosco
Facebook: / magnabosco210
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Carlos is a student who is a member of an on-campus ministry, but puts himself at the 75 percent mark on his God belief. In the first part of this exchange, we discuss what keeps him from moving up further on the scale, and what would it take to move him down to the 50 percent mark.
Coincidentally, I ran into Carlos two days later. Carlos immediately asked (not on camera, unfortunately) what I was doing out here so I began to explain my objectives (that is where the second video starts). I was very pleased to hear that he spent some time thinking about our discussion. I hope to meet with Carlos again very soon.
Note: I originally did not intend to post the initial conversation, because of the background noise from the rolling cart. However, after meeting Carlos two days later and hearing his testimonial, I decided that the conversation needed to be made available.
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The views addressed here are mine and mine alone, and are not necessarily shared by members of my family and friends.
I just want to be Carlos' friend! He's so honest, cool, and approachable. Just a good-guy-gary, you know?
I totally agree. Carlos is awesome.
Came here to say just that. What a kind, sweet, honest guy he seems.
Let's get Carlos HAMMERED DRUNK!! :D
Totally...I'm going to get a Carlos T Shirt
hahahaha!
Very honest believer, not something you encounter very often.
+TheAstraeuss I'm pretty sure this type of conversation helps a lot too though ;) Kind people can be antagonized to hate you, and hateful people can be made to respect and even love you - the approach can be vital.
Maybe his religion made him like that. Not like atheist believers..
@@samdon3693 you think his religion made him honest, which is what the OP pointed out was rare and different than the vast majority of believers in the same religion. And his honesty is exactly what leads him to question his ridiculous mythology.
And atheists are not believers because the one thing about atheists is they don't believe.
Hope this helps.
@@aaronmatzkin7966 To be honest I have seen many TH-cam atheist who lies to a great extent to win an argument. In fact, most of the atheist guys I have encountered doesn't seem to be reasonable and that's why I mentioned that. For me, religious people seem to be more honest than atheists (it is based on my encounter). Everyone has to believe in something if they don't believe in anything they would be called agnostics. Maybe you are using the TH-cam atheists definition of atheism (lack belief guys) but that's not what atheism is. Let me give you the proper definition, "Atheism is a view that doesn't believe in any god/gods".
@@samdon3693 Actually, atheists say - at least the ones who know what they are talking about - they do not see any evidence that proves the existence of a god or gods. Hence, the lack of belief. But if they could be convinced by verifiable evidence that a god/gods exist/s, they would be open to changing their position. Anthony Magnabosco has said this on more than one occasion.
The honesty shown here is totally admirable. I'm actually really impressed.
Being honest is the first step of moving down the scale
This amount of honesty, I swear I don't think I've ever seen.
antonio sandoval
Exactly what I was thinking 😳
‘‘Twas truly amazing
Maybe his religion made him like that...
@@samdon3693 hahaha. His religion made him honest enough to begin to leave his religion when presented with questions about it. In what world does this make sense? 😆
I think I've watched like 10 of these videos so far and Carlos is the first one who didn't say he's 100% sure. Props to him.
I was a 100%er for a long time.
That question often triggers fear. More than you think actually are doubting their faith. They are victims to the rotted idea of Hell.
I wish all believers thought like this kid. He was very honest with himself and was open to thinking logically about his beliefs. I wish him the best!
If he's a kid I should be locked up
hes thinking.....belief in humanity restored
Hugh Ford some people are smart
Its hard to remember that when you live in Kentucky.
Hugh Ford lololol...
but that's just h i s p e r s o n a l t r u t h
So how strongly would you say you believe in humanity, 0-100?
I love this guy. He is open about being what other believers never admit being. Unsure, but faithful just the same. Nothing wrong with that. This type of faith is not authoritarian. It is personal, and helps the individual in that way. If every believer was like this, I wouldn't care about religion.
+AtheisticConclusion Me too
AtheisticConclusion: Interesting moniker in the light of your comment. I assume that you admire honesty in others, because you are also not entirely sure of your own atheistic position and therefore open to changing your mind? If that is not the case, then are you not being just a little patronising?
@@algraham7177 Nobody replied to you after this..?! Its really simple Al, evidence based beliefs are the only one's to hold. Since no religion actually has any evidence to back up the claims why would any Atheist ever consider becoming a Theist? Theists, at least every single one that I have come into contact with hold unreasonable beliefs. They even realize it and resort to, you have to have faith. Which is really just a cop out.
"I put myself on Solid 75%" There is a lot of courage and honesty.
I laughed when he said "wholeheartedly" and then corrected himself to "well, 75%-heartedly". Carlos was refreshingly honest with himself, compared to other interviewees on this channel. Most people immediately say they're 100% confident. It's seen as a virtue to claim absolute certainty. If you don't know something, you're supposed to leave it up to God's infinite wisdom, even if the subject in question is the existence of God in the first place.
Wow, this kid rules! He's probably the most intelligent and honest person that you've encountered. I would love it if you ran in to him again.
This dude is cool. He just is really self aware. Damn.
Is that an honest position to hold?
No.
I was really surprised to hear that from a believer.
What a great young man. Hearing him talk about his parents’ divorce and seeing the pain from it on his face breaks my heart. I wish this kid all the best this world has to offer.
Carlos is my hero, he's incredibly honest and that's refreshing.
I seriously just want to be Carlos' friend, wherever he ended up. He's awesome and the world needs more like him.
How refreshing to see a wildly intelligent and self-aware person such as Carlos actually listen and contemplate your questions. Leading horses to water, and letting them decide to drink. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that this is the most effective way to help people escape from the effects of indoctrination. Bravo!
He has a great personality, love the honesty and open mindedness too.
Refreshingly positive exchange. I loved Anthony's questions and I thought the kid was really candid and sincere.
This is really interesting stuff. It's so honest and genuine. The non-confrontational discussion is clearly the best way forward.
Carlos had me crying, Ughh just wanna give that guy a hug
What a great guy. Hope everything turns out well for him regardless of whatever beliefs he ends up having.
In light of what Carlos said 2 days later, it would have been interesting to ask him if his 75% figure had changed at all.
I'm am so impressed and inspired by this guy's openness and willingness to listen and question. He was respectful toward Anthony, and didn't respond with fear the moment he felt questions rising. So cool. I think we could all take a leaf from his book.
What a lovely honest young man. Great work. I need to try this.
Right? I was like, "what a nice dude."
Gah...I'll just add to everyone else and say Carlos seems like a legit cool human being. I'm a devout(used ironically) atheist...yet I'd love to have Carlos as a friend...regardless what he does or does not believe. I'd just love getting to know the guy and sharing this insane life through conversation.
I think it's great that the people you interview are stimulated to think about their beliefs as a consequence of their interaction with you.
As you say awesome!
I really like the style of conversation here. Great job and keep it up. Carlos sounded like an extremely genuine and nice individual as well. Hope he does well in life.
That WAS awesome. Carlos was really open and honest in this conversation. Genuinely good guy, I really wish him well in the future.
This was an awesome interview! Carlos is obviously a truth seeker. And props to you Anthony for helping him to think.
An inspiring amount of honesty and self reflection from Carlos. Seems like a really cool guy.
Wow this guy was honest.
I had a similar experience where I was just getting to know God and then my parents split up and I didn't understand why God would do that to me even though I prayed every night and thanked him for my life. Now I understand why such a high percentage of sermons are about how life isn't always roses even if your faith is strong.
What's more humble than honesty.
I think this short format is brilliant, it gets to the point quickly. I think sticking to the same questions and in the same order helps the flow and guides the conversation where you want it to go beautifully, i think it's important to resist the urge to respond and chase the conversation down rabbit holes and get lost, and the short time limit helps to avoid that pitfall. Anthony you're very good at that, it's so good to see the penny drop in some of these people you can actually see it in their eyes and body language its awesome gives me hope. Hopefully these people have the courage to go back into their bible study groups and talk to others about the encounter they had and explain how it made them think and maybe ask some others the same questions, im sure theists will think about it more hearing it from a fellow believer than a non believer. I love this stuff
Anthony, you must be the most polite person I've seen discussing faith with people, without leading, without judging, and with full respect. I frankly don't care whether people believe or not. And I don't think proselytism is a good thing. But the people you interviewed were obviously touched by the questions, felt respected, answered candidly without feeling threatened, and did pause which, if I understand, was the point.
Almost everything religious degenerates in name calling but no, that's not your method. And the comments are polite as far as I can see.
There is one question I'd like to hear, though it would break your methodology, and that's: "do you think you would still be just as good a person if you had other beliefs, or no belief in divinity whatsoever?" Or maybe change or add to the Hinduism reference to complete lack of belief. That would go a bit over the top maybe, but with some effort, could presumably be done ethically,
Keep going!
Thank you. Carlos did all the heavy lifting here, though. Check out my three-part conversation with Wally next--I think you will find him a fascinating person.
+Anthony Magnabosco ....that was a great exchange, it was interesting to see his mind open up to the fact that his faith wasn't based on its being true; that shook him a bit.
+Anthony Magnabosco Claude=Carlos? : p
@@magnabosco210: So, I just watched the now-4-part conversation with Wally, and... perhaps this is a bit irrelevant, 3 years later (so mostly, this is a comment for others who might see this reference), but I thought I'd say that that exchange felt SO very different to me than this one with Carlos. Perhaps you were suggesting it as a contrast, I don't know, but for other viewers: if you're expecting Wally to be similar to Carlos, your expectations are unlikely to be met. :)
Believe all you want. Just don’t bring it into the science class or politics.
Carlos seems like a refreshingly candid dude.
After all the dumb shit I read by theists on the internet... this kid is a beacon of hope.
You should see the stuff atheists write. It's just as bad but with an intense and undeserved air of intellectual smugness.
Besides that, isn't the point of the whole faith thing that embedded within the concept is an acknowledgement that it's belief without certainty?
Ultimately the common claim made by religious people is that the universe isn't uncaring of what we do, like karma.
Epistomology seems very limited in this context and seems more appropriate for people who believe their opinions are objectively based, like intelligent design people or the social studies crowds XD
I'm hoping you don't talk about us like this still, 8 years later.
@@gaseredtune5284 Are theists still staying mind-bogglingly stupid shit 8 years later? Why yes, yes they are.
@@Mallard942 Always pointing fingers. 😂
@@gaseredtune5284 He isn't talking about you. He's talking about people who refuse to think critically.
This guy gives me faith in humanity. He is so honest and reflective
I enjoy these vids
I greatly admire Carlos' candor and openness. Sharing deeply personal stories is not only emotionally stirring but can be also be intellectually enlightening. Additionally, Carlos is the first interlocutor I have heard disclose a 75% on the god scale.
This guy can date my daughter.
Why? Has she met him?
Daniel T. Only if he's willing. If my son were gay, I wouldn't have a problem with him dating other guys. Aside from that though, we don't know Carlos's preferences
@@Correctrix Great comment.
@Stevo Devo I have no dogs so he can date my mother 👩🦳
@Stevo Devo they can share, maybe get a lil dog-mum-man open relationship going
Wow. An intelligent discussion between 2 self aware individuals where they are both putting themselves in the other person's shoes.. rare.
I've watched a number of your videos and am so impressed with your respect and kindness to people. You ask them great questions to get them to find their own answers. Its the same approach I try to use when speaking with believers (having been one myself for over 50 years i try to think of the things that would have made me question).
As I listened, I had that feeling I used to get when witnessing. Kind of an excited buzz- go for it Carlos!
What an honest guy. Dont care what he believes because hes not delusional. He'll be okay no matter what. Wish there were more believers like this
It's so inspiring to see how receptive people are to this faith analysis that you lead them into. It looks that all they needed was some support, if feels like psychotherapy. I'd never agree with "believers" being forced into this, but it seems they're often glad to do the walking themselves. I hope everyone ends up in a good place, I don't want ex-believers feeling lost and miserable...
God made that loud cart go by
Ha haaaaa love it
lmao
Lol 😂 very good.
Flip ... I guess that’s the conclusive evidence all us atheists have been looking for?
👍👍
My hats off to Carlos. I totally admire his honesty with his self!
He is probably a future agnostic. Thanks for the great video!! It made my day.
Ad Hominoid Agnostic means you don't know. It has nothing to do with theism or atheism. You can be an agnostic theist or an agnostic atheist, but you can't be simply "agnostic." "Agnostic" literally means ignorant. A- meaning without, and gnostic, meaning knowledge.
Ad Hominoid
I mis-clicked who to respond to, I meant to respond to OP. Apologies, Cheers.
These conversations are fascinating! I love your approach. So many people disparage atheists as provocative, angry and insulting. You are the polar opposite.
all of these videos are so well done. it's also a revelation to me that so many young people believe in god. i feel like in my hometown (nyc) there are almost no confidently religious youth in college. opened my eyes that youth across the country are not as monolithic as i imagined regarding religion
I really like your vids. It is helping me to talk to people who are believers in a much more constructive way.
I am really happy to heat that, as that is one of my larger goals. Consider submitting a join request for the private SE Facebook Group (>900 members) where you can learn way more.
What is the exact name Ill add it
Found it
Just requested DB!
The tide is beginning to turn. Reason and adult conversations are beginning to take hold over superstition driven belligerence. Be kind. Be patient. And be persistent. A better day is awaiting all of us because of it.
Yes, let's hope that is the case, and that both theists AND atheists cease being so insulting to each other. Earlier today I tried to have a civil conversation with a few atheists and it was not long before the insults started flowing (from them to me). Instead of engaging with the argument I was simply dismissed as someone needing to see a psychiatrist. I agree that many Christians are obnoxious - some appallingly so - but many atheists are just as bad quite frankly. In fact, I would like to suggest that your comment betrays a certain immaturity by your unqualified use of the word 'superstition'. I am a Christian and that is why I am NOT superstitious. Superstition is about holding views and especially fears that have no logical and evidential basis. Whatever views I have I justify with recourse to reason and evidence, and I am happy to discuss them with anyone. Prejudging believers with words like 'superstition' is hardly encouraging rational and adult conversation!
@@algraham7177 People are people, that is was a lot of people today forget. An atheist or a theist is primarily a person. There are calm people, there are people that get angry fast. There are idiots and wise people. There are people that accept BS without thinking, and there are people that don't even accept reality.
Sure, some "views" might have a draw for specific people, but every group of people has every type of person in it (if the group's large enough, of course XD).
As for superstition... As with a lot of complex words, one would have to agree on a meaning first..
So, a quick google gives us this:
"A superstition is any belief(Y) or practice(y?) based upon one's trust in luck(n) OR other irrational(y?), unscientific(Y) or supernatural forces(Y).
Often, it arises from ignorance(y?), a misunderstanding of science(y?) a belief in fate(Y) or magic(Y), or fear of that which is unknown(y?)"
Not addressing this specifically to you, as I don't know your specific opinions yet, Al.
But "common Christians" tick most of those boxes:
- It is a belief, and sometimes includes practices as well.
- It's not really based on luck, but definitely on supernatural forces (aka God), which also is definitely unscientific. And most often also irrational (which is why it's faith-based and not based on scientific evidence)
- Ignorance does play a role (arguments from personal incredulity), but not always. Especially with YE-creationists, a misunderstanding of science is basically a given. "God's plan" implies a belief in fate, and "God did it" is just a rephrase of magic: He spoke, and stuff happened (Genesis). Fear of the unknown (like, what happens after death) often plays a role, but also not always.
Going by that particular definition of superstition, I don't see why it (in general, as said: I don't know your views yet) that label wouldn't fit.
While you say "I am a christian and that is why I am not superstitious", using the above definition of superstitious, that sentence would make as much sense as me saying "I am a Vegan, and that's why I like to eat steaks."
And, as a nice cookie to share between us... vernon padilla is just "our" variant of your (believers, not personal you) that go around pasting verses into comment section without engaging >.>
Just ignore him.
Upon further review; the honesty is so admirable. I wish Anthony came into contact with my people like this. I’m honestly stunned.
A crisis of faith is an opportunity for reason.
Wow, this is the first time I've seen a theist admit that according to their own beliefs there is no room for free will. If you have a good experience its "god's will", if you have a bad experience its "god's will". Nowhere in that is free will. Great guy, I really hope he thought about this a lot more.
Even Naturalistic view doesn't have free will..
First of all there are many Christians who admit that there is no free will (Calvinists). Something that you did on your own is Gods will because he wanted you to do what you did, and gave you the strength to do so. He is not literally moving you around to do it like a puppet
@@breckinprovick737 It doesn't matter if he's "literally moving us around like a puppet", if we have no free will do do anything other than god's will then he may as well be puppeteering us. If everything is god's will then everything is god's responsibility.
This is hypothetically speaking of course, since the religious conception of god isn't even real.
The integrity and honesty of this young man is exceptional! I applaud him for his honesty on his beliefs, its rare for a religious individual, especially the "hell fire and damnation, " religions to truly admit their doubt in thier gods' existence, and to candidly profess that they have/continue to question the authenticity of thier entire faith and beliefs system. The genuine humility that he showed, without hesitation or fear of backlash, unapologetically admitting he has doubt in his religious beliefs and faith, and confidently providing legitimate justification for the basis of his doubts originating cause from his own personal experiences.
5:32 Holy shit, this guy is so earnest!
Aside from being a really nice authentic dude, he also seems really comfortable with being Honest, with you and with himself. I bet he’ll continue to evolve his epistemology and views as long as he can get exposure to more of the knowledge and arguments out there.
I hope many believers are like him but i think he is a rare breed. Even though he attends church group, his self introspection is pretty high, as though he can look at his own changes as a third person. He explicitly says the reason he still believes is that he convinces himself despite the doubts.
Carlos is the type of guy who will deconvert easily with enough good arguments..he is very open..very honest..n a thinking individual.
What a cool kid. So honest and open, and willing to be self-effacing when evaluating his faith in the light of his ethics and honesty! Fantastico Carlos!
i loved the ending. really got carlos thinking after his initial conversation. that's why i think these conversations are needed.
Thanks for watching. Yeah, this was one of those rare times early on where I had a repeat conversation partner. Carlos is awesome.
After watching quite a few SE videos on this channel (and compared to believers' attitudes in general) Carlos' honesty, openness, and willingness to "think" is refreshing. As I am typing this in early 2020, some 5 years after this has been uploaded, I wonder where Carlos stands on faith and god these days.
I know this video is four years old, but I'm glad you didn't let the rolling cart ultimately stop you from uploading this. Small distractions like that can stop you from showing some very important talks.
the honesty and openness in his self-examination is admirable.
He's really thoughtful and has a great smile that makes the whole interaction seem friendly and fruitful. Most people have a logical ability to think this way and just aren't turning it on often enough. We seem to need to have somewhere in our life for irrationality to play.
That question "how strong is your belief", is a great opener. I have seen other videos and it really sets the tone of where you go with the interview.
If it is 100% then you know who you are interviewing, 99% down is a non-believer
Glad to see he eventually took it to where he needed to go. I kept thinking "damn, he's so close, but is missing the obvious." great interaction.
Very open dude! and the confirmation that you affected his thought process must have felt awesome! These videos are great for me, someone new to street epistemology. Thanks for doing these.
Glad I found this channel! Great stuff.
One of my favorite classic SE vids👍👍
wow,really impressed with this kid.
What an intelligent, honest young man. Restores a bit of faith in his generation. However he ends up religiously, he has a bright future. I'd hire him in a New York second.
This is interesting. Carlos is having a totally different conversation than Anthony is. He's talking about faith as trust, rather than belief. I don't think he's even considered whether a God actually exists.
I gotta say I can really appreciate his honesty.
I knew right out of the gate when he rated himself as 75% that he was going to be an intellectually honest person. What I find most times is people will often be dishonest about their belief rate since they know that it’s being recorded. Not this guy.
this is amazing! The Socratic method at its finest.
Great series Anthony. It shows that people are OK and so are you! You're doing something right...
I like this kid! I wish him the best on his faith journey
A thoughtfull guy! i went through the same religious conditioning as this fellow,but finally dropped it totally ,hopefully the hypocrisy of religionism will become apparent to him and he will find his way out of the very apparent conflict he's dealing with.
What a great interview, and what a thoughtful young man.
An honest person who truly wants to examine his epistemology. A rare thing indeed!
Education (as opposed to indoctrination) is the key to waking people up.
This is definitely the most open person I've seen you talk to.
I feel this fellow is honest enough to be at least somewhat conflicted in his beliefs 'perhaps as he matures he will be able to make a clean break from his past conditioning...
What an articulate young man. Good luck to him
I have to agree with most of the comments. Carlos is a cool kid. I wish him all the best in his quest for truth and knowledge.
Hopefully, he is the same honest, open and forthright today! It is not exceedingly common. He is a great guy!
Rationality is the nemesis of faith.
Ahh Carlos is so lovely and honest... Lovely interview 😍
Generally speaking, loss of loved ones tends to make ppl cling harder to their religions - they want the comfort of thinking their loved one is in a better place and that they'll see them again when they die. The fear of death and the unwillingness to accept that life is temporary is perhaps the strongest pull religion has in it's arsenal.
That doesn't mean everyone reacts the same way and of course ppl can and do have the opposite reaction.
Carlos is a really bright kid, I'm sure he'll do great things one day.
Yet another great training video for Street Epistemologists.
Thanks for thinking critically Carlos!
So glad i found this....anthony was mentioned in another YT comment video discussion of a guy breaking down the socractic method using pulp fiction 🙂 dope stuff .
Glad you found the material. I’m curious about your origination point. Do you have a link to that? It sounds interesting.
I’m curious where this kid stands on his faith now. It took me a long time to work my way out because like him I wanted to believe so badly but just couldn’t.
What a lovely human being maximum respect to carlos
Carlos is very courageous which allows him to be so honest.
I really like Carlos. He's very honest.
This method of covertly preaching atheism and breaking through religious indoctrination is very subtle and clever, yet effective. It doesn't attempt to plow through the outer walls at full steam, like some many of the hardliners do. Instead, it merely attempts to cultivate a small seed from within, that may eventually push outward on its own and fracture the protective shell. Because it only takes a miniscule crack in the outer layer for everything else to come flowing in and break the whole thing wide open.
It always makes me augh when one Christian group claims another Christian group isnt Christian.
It’s like they just can’t see if sometimes
Literally beautiful to watch