Why Don't You Believe There Is a God? - Shamarri | Street Epistemology

[@queenangel321]

It's easy to hear something and believe it but it's harder to say something and still believe it. I didn't truly start questioning myself until someone asked me to explain it and I realized how crazy I sounded.

[@mauricenickelson9472]

Lol.

[@cavebeastdemon3631]

I didn't really realize this until I started watching street Epistemology but your right!

[@openyourminds920]

Wow!!!! Thank you for that. . Though I've heard that saying before, I never thought of it until just now. Thank you so much.

[@gregorycampbell9386]

That happened to me 10 plus years ago and it was the beginning of process of dropping my unjustified religious beliefs.

[@RichardCookerly]

That’s so true

[@dkazmer2]

Why is truth subjective to so many people? This kind of thinking never computed for me.

[@AtheistEve]

Daniel Kazmer Some truths are subjective, or have subjective elements. Just like feeling loved might not mean we _are_ loved and thinking we are unloved might not mean we _are_ unloved or unloveable. Everything passes a subjective lens when it is filtered through a subject's mind. I think this is why subjectivity is so intrinsic to our being or nature.

[@mutex1024]

JE Hoyes, I think I disagree. The fact that feeling loved does not mean we are loved does not make feeling loved subjective. It is an objective truth that we feel loved. There is also an objective truth to whether or not we are actually loved. We just have no way of knowing with 100% certainty that we are loved. That doesn't make truth subjective. So the honest thing to say is that it is true that I feel love and I believe from evidence that I am loved (but could be mistaken).

[@Correctrix]

I think it’s something that comes from coexisting in a modern, multicultural, tolerant, peaceful society. Unfortunately, some people slide from politely tolerating others’ views, to actually thinking that contradictory ideas can all be simultaneously true in reality. I walk past people wearing the hijab and don’t bat an eyelid, but if you quiz me I’m not going to pretend that Allah is "true for them", whatever that means.

[@chrissonofpear3657]

And if they ARE somehow all true and part of a divine strategy, it suggests a pretty manipulative deity.

[@TheNickhis]

It has a lot to do with unchecked primal evolutionary instincts within us all that most are raised without learning to account for. The neocortex portion of our brain that's responsible for rational thought is still a fairly new development, and most aren't raised to learn how properly use it, and perhaps the only reason we've gotten better at it all is because we can record our accumulated knowledge collectively from one generation to the next.

[@RonnieD1970]

This was a SE masterpiece.
First you started off with SE and allowed her to work throught some very complex examples and questions. She either did not comprehend or put her in small bouts of cognitive dissonance. Either way you allowed her to. THINK! Just great!
Then as the trust and confidence grew the conversation organically switched around and you allowed her to ask you some SE type questions! What a great way to learn from you without you pushing your ideas on to the IL. Outstanding.
Then at the end the ILs trust (she was wonderful) turned into a great conversation with scientific facts, philosophy, critical thinking, religion, compliments and the solid foundation of friendship..
Both SE practitioner (you) and the IL were wonderful and respectful. This put the 'civil' in civil discourse.
I can not stress how great this was I am proud for both of you!

[@DavidLindes]

hear hear!

[@torsteinnordstrand170]

Yes. This was truly great. Everybody won. In the beginning I thought perhaps it would be impossible to get a good conversation going, but well done by both parties.

[@geofferypmeyers]

When she said having faith is just like believing in science I just wanted to scream 😳😳

[@JD-fx1np]

Me too. Pls explain to her that simply because science doesn't have a definitive answer to something (yet) doesn't prove God. Yikes!!
Love from his Mom is based on demonstrable evidence of his mother providing for him and caring for him for years. Feeding him and helping him thrive. WTF. Can't prove love. This woman needs to study science and what evidence means. He can't just throw all that at her, I understand, she like many would just get defensive and shut down.
But do beliefs hurt? No sir, they can hurt you, not just religious beliefs but inaccurate untested false and unverifiable beliefs can absolutely hurt you or convince you to hurt someone else. There are cults that commit suicide (drink Jim Jones punch in 1978) or crash into buildings in 2001 or wage war over religion)
If you believe things based on flawed mechanics of finding truth then that can hurt you in how you make decions in life. WTF?!!!? COME ON.

[@GnaReffotsirk]

She must be referring to theories.

[@TheWorldTeacher]

Well, Slave, we all have our own particular BELIEFS, but ultimately, there exists objective truth, which is not subject to our misconceptions and misunderstandings.
One who has transcended mundane relative truth is said to be an ENLIGHTENED soul. 😇

[@txfreethinker]

"I do not believe in science."

[@littleblazer355]

Larry Jones and you literally texted a message. Please educate yourself a bit more

[@glenw3814]

@@littleblazer355 What's your point?

[@polaris33063]

Interesting. People claiming not to believe in science while at the same time using a smartphone, computers, automobiles, airplanes, GPS, electricity, medical care, etc. Essentially living in a world which couldn’t possibly exist without scientific knowledge.

[@harrisonthompson]

@@littleblazer355
???

[@jerichosharman470]

I think science is good...but I think the harm comes more so from their belief that critically thinking about beliefs is something to avoid

[@stephenrodwell]

Great question! “If someone believes there’s no god, is that a reliable way to prove that there’s no god?” Very smart way to move the conversation on!

[@louiscyfer6944]

stephen, that is not what he said. he asked " if someone wants to believe there is no god, is that a reliable way to prove there is no god?"
and she was not able to comprehend the question. she is an idiot. this is the sad reality of a very poor education.

[@frankdouglas8146]

This was a fantastic conversation.
Shamarri if you see this I really admire your openness to his ideas. I wonder if you have given the talk any thought. Great conversation.

[@birasageorge]

I was thinking the same thing. Openness from both participants. Fully enjoyable

[@DavidLindes]

Another, year-later, echoing of these thoughts! "Cordial curiosity" indeed, from both parties in this conversation! Love it!

[@fran.guitar8818]

Yes it was fantastic!

[@chacecardiff3441]

I'm so impressed with how well you kept the conversation open and respectful when she set you up so many times to knock her arguments out of the park! Even with your facial expressions. I'm over here yelling at the monitor while you're keeping it cool haha. Strong work!

[@mattpurvis927]

"At a time where you're completely down, and you're at ground zero."
That's exactly when you are most vulnerable, and open to suggestion.

[@mantistoboggan5171]

and is exactly what cults pray on.

[@teaburg]

I think Shamarri should consider doing SE. She's a natural at it.

[@dyinteriors]

Excellent! Wow, I wish you could have this conversation with my mom. She is hopelessly deluded and screams and cries if anyone asked a single question about why she believes in her religion. It is an absolute weapon in her world. You give me hope.

[@DavidLindes]

Parent-child relationships can be fraught... hopefully someone can, in a way that builds rapport sufficient to allow the questions to not feel threatening. Probably a lot harder for you to do, but something to aim for... try to build rapport around other things, and tread carefully if/when raising this topic?? Just thoughts; I don't know your situation.

[@rogerrinkavage]

I am the same way, im tempted to send this video to her but i think it will be too much

[@PaulTheSkeptic]

So, that question that you're stuck at. Maybe I can help. You could say "What's the capital of Lithuania?" She'd say "I don't know." "You don't know? Why don't you make something up? At least then you'd have an answer." Then she'd be in a position where she'd have to explain to you that sometimes ignorance and not knowing can be the most accurate conclusion.

[@jackylukewarm3257]

Paul TheSkeptic , good stuff. Thank you. I'm gonna use that line with theists

[@valeriavagapova]

Would be a bit awkward in a very likely situation where they do actually know the capital of Lithuania.:)

[@derekmizer6293]

Paul, this is great. I am going to use it. Thanks

[@JD-fx1np]

I like that

[@adbrouwer]

Great conversation, Reid.
Shamarri was a great conversation partner. I really liked her inquisitiveness towards the end.
I had to rewind to figure out at what point interviewee/interviewer "roles" switched because it happened in such a gradual manner.
It's a treat to see so many types of talks. Keep it up!

[@louiscyfer6944]

are you kidding? she is a nimcaput. a complete moron, a simpleton. she couldn't even comprehend simple questiin, and all she could offer was magical thinking.

[@DavidLindes]

@@louiscyfer6944: Wow, just wow. Have you no empathy? She's not a moron. Her questions show that she's quite capable of intelligent thought. She's just been indoctrinated into a belief system so strongly, and challenged on it so infrequently, that she has a pattern of belief that's strong. After having this conversation, I bet she challenged her own beliefs further. She may or may not have given up a belief in god, but I bet she's learned a lot, either way.
To say that someone is, themselves, a moron for having been inculcated with a belief system in the way most Christians have is... a quite ignorant (moronic??? no, merely ignorant) thing to say.

[@mattgunderson7370]

This is a top 5 talk! I love how she turned the tables and started asking you questions. Especially when she wanted to clarify your answer and said "correct me if I'm wrong." Very SE move. I think she was honest and a pebble was properly placed. Well done!

[@PaulSaundersRocketstar_]

We either live in a shared reality or we don't. "Personal truth" Ughh!!! Overcoming taught dogma is very hard.

[@drewstillexists]

Interesting. Hopefully she checks out your videos and sees more of your work. I find it strange that she would say she doesn't "believe in science", and I have a lot of trouble with the idea of just believing things without any evidence. It is perplexing.

[@chrissonofpear3657]

Urrrgh, that girl on youtube! A bad sign...

[@hulldragon]

So frustrating to watch profoundly ignorant people spew their nonsense. She doesn't "believe" in science but UNDOUBTEDLY, INESCAPABLY *relies* on science *every* *single* *fucking* *day* !

[@uncleanunicorn4571]

It would take a lot of patience to hear someone say they reject science, and not ask them whether they use cars, and cell phones?

[@DavidLindes]

@@Aggellos703: that's a very good point. And indeed, it has been used as a tool to feed both of those things, to the ends of many great harms, so it's an understandable stance from someone who sees those harms in their daily experience, as I suspect this interlocutor likely does.
Alas, she seems to have an understanding of science that's quite different from the methodology of observation, hypothesis, falsification, and so on that I suspect most of us think of when we think of that word. It may be a more abstract thing to her, and indeed, a "tool of the devil", so to speak... with good evidence, frankly, for seeing it that way, even if others might interpret the evidence in a different way.

[@tamtrinh174]

there are a lot of frauds and mistakes in science, and also, a lot of thing in science is not valuable to normal every people, like what is really the different between believing in "human are created by God" and "human are evolved from apes"

[@Notmyr3alname]

This was awesome! When she asked what's the harm in believing (toward the end) I would have mentioned how religion influences how some people vote and use their religion to fight against people's human rights.

[@hubbellmountain]

MsWingzy I've found that that doesn't really land with people because they know that their faith doesn't motivate THEM to do bad things so maintaining the belief doesn't have any negative effects (in their mind) on their life. It's like telling a gun owner that they should abandon their hobby because of Sandy hook. They think, "well, I'm not shooting kids"

[@chrissonofpear3657]

Not much harm in believing you have an interior life and a not-totally physical part to you. Bit messier if you treat the contents of your interior as binding and universal though.

[@LordXain]

MsWingzy
My first thought was about the child that died the other day because their parents believed in healing through prayer instead of medical intervention.
That's pretty harmful.

[@JD-fx1np]

Or murder people, fly into buildings, wage wars, discriminate against others, kill catholics vs protestants in Ireland, drink lethal punch in a cult like Jim Jones and all die, give all your money to a televangelist while you subsist on cat food bc helping him buy a 2nd plane helps you get into heaven... and on and on...

[@ArmaunDidIt]

It's actually not "harmless" to believe untrue things because how could you come to the conclusion of what's true or untrue? If we both live in the same world where my actions affect you & vice versa, I would like to be surrounded by critical thinkers who use reason instead of faith.

[@roxikoko3744]

The fact your mum has shown you through first hand experience via sight, sound and touch is strong evidence she loves you.

[@mantistoboggan5171]

yeah, he really fucked that up there. i was screaming at the pc for him to just get texts out for her, pictures of them, and get her on the phone to say she loves him.
all of those are far greater evidence than any religion has ever had on their side.
no photographic evidence, no audible evidence, no physical evidence, and no way for people to discern that they are talking to god, let alone the same one.

[@briand.reynolds474]

@@mantistoboggan5171 Seriously! I'm sure it was just an 'on the spot' fail, but I couldn't help but think his momma oughtta smack him upside the head and ask about all the love and care she (probably, hopefully) has given him since he was a baby! But idk, maybe all she's done is send him some cat pictures, lmao (well, only lmao assuming that's not the case).

[@xxsageonexx8910]

“Does that make sense?”
Nope. Not at all.

[@briand.reynolds474]

Seriously!! I was thinking the exact same thing. It's amazing what can seem normal if you experience it beginning in childhood. Read the replies to Larry Jones' comment, one in particular did help me understand her a lil better. Along with the fact that I used to have unquestionable faith in the same outrageous omnimalevolent, omniimpotent, omniabsent garbage (see what I did there!? 😉 Sorry, not sorry, kinda proud of that witty little bit, lol!).

[@terrymckown2441]

Helping others learn better ways to think, perhaps the most important issue facing our species. Nice job dude!

[@josephzaccardi5686]

His patience level is over 9000!

[@yumeriagirl1231]

Science is not a "thing" nor needs "belief".. Science is a method, a way of finding out the "how" of our natural world. One DOES science. One uses the scientific method, to KNOW things.
No one ever needs to BELIEVE in Science, one DOES it.
This breaks my 💔. Our US education system has completely failed generations!!!
Saddens me. Keep up the phenomenal work, fantastic conversations & amazing patience.
-fellow skeptic

[@jtwolfstories]

I need to apologize to CC. I had some doubts at first about his way of doing SE, but he really hit the nail on the head with this one. Calm, collected, polite. I think I made an asshole comment on one of his videos. You are doing great work and I regret being such a jerk sometimes. Keep it up!

[@InScienceITrust]

Reid...
At 14:00 when she asks you How would you prove how mankind was on this earth....
You went down the evolution road.
First, Evolution does not answer her question of how we got here.
Also, I thought this was a because it offers her a road of debate.
She begins interviewing you.
I think at this juncture you should have asked her,
Is it acceptable to say, we don't know?
Does admitting we do not know all the answers, offer any evidence for a god claim?
Do you think it is a good idea for us to explore other possibilities or should we stop at the god claim and settle for that?
Keeping her focused on the idea that the God claim is not necessarily the only possible answer to our existence would have been preferable to a debate or even a discussion on evolution.

[@dnrevan778]

I like this approach. Nice idea!

[@frankdouglas8146]

In Science I Trust yea a bit more questioning towards the end might have improved it a bit.

[@JD-fx1np]

That is awesome and absolutely correct.

[@shaunte5818]

I really admire this girl’s ability to have a conversation about her religion while keeping a cool head. Many religious people can’t do that. I hope she looks more into science so she can see that science is not a belief. This is something that many churches teach to cast doubt on facts and continue to perpetuate their myth. She seems like a bright girl, and I think she will ponder on this conversation again in the future. You can almost see the wheels turning. Awesome conversation. I love watching these.

[@MyMusics101]

Love the chat and your style - amazing! I noticed one thing I wanted to adress, though:
23:47 Reid: "There can't be evidence for things that don't exist."
Actually, there can! Evidence in favour of a hypothesis is, of course, some event or observation that was predicted by that hypothesis. So if I believe in curtain-moving fairies living outdoors, open my window, and then see my curtains move - that's evidence in favour of my hypothesis right there!
By using Occam's Razor, however, we can arrive at the conclusion that, although my hypothesis is being confirmed all the time, it isn't worth believing. Moving gas is a simpler explanation than complex, mindful creatures with agency. Both hypotheses explain the observations equally well (moving gas actually does better, because you can build off of that for quantitative predictions and calculations), so we must consider the moving gas hypothesis to be much more likely a priori.
(Apart from the fact that my fairy-belief would be unfalsifiable, and thus unscientific.)

[@Kloutkulture]

It does hurt to believe. She literally said “I don’t believe in science”.

[@blusheep2]

I think your misunderstanding her. She obviously doesn't partake in these types discussion as much as others. Those that do have fleshed out the proper language to use. She has not. From the context of what she was saying, she didn't really not believe in science. By that, I'm pretty sure she was meaning "naturalism" or "materialism."

[@aGreatGiftorg]

I think this is the best SE intervention I've seen (and I've watched quite a few). Shamarri is honest and open.
I think you did very well with examples that didn't concern HER faith, but for example that of an atheist. Excellent because then the IL will not feel attacked or questioned. And she did see the parallel.
When it comes to "there must be something", I think introducing Hinduism could be viable. Can there be both one god and multiple gods? Could the universe have been created by both one god AND multiple gods? I think that we can't choose what is true and what is not. Reality is the yard stick.
The changing of the table is also very effective, I think. Just being socratic doesn't convey important points. The statements you made at the end clearly resonated with her. And that is because they are true and a shared value. It makes sense not to believe stuff that is false and to believe stuff that is true. It is just that religions don't want to got that route (a true religion would promote it; effectively showing all the other religions wrong).
As to loving your mother, first of all, it is quite reasonable to assume she exists. And it is not uncommon for a mother to love her children. So, while your mom may lie to you, it is not an extraordinary claim.
If you argue that evidence exists (for evolution), bring a piece of evidence to the table. "You and I have to have vitamin C in our food because the genetic information needed to make it is broken in humans. In gorilla's and chimpansees it is broken in exactly the same way. It doesn't make sense for a higher power to create us and gorilla's with a defective gene. It does make sense if we have a common ancestor."
....
For those interested: check out: www.reddit.com/r/atheism/wiki/action for more strategies and tips

[@w4rsh1p]

Incredible how important the teaching of evolution really is. When they feel that science cannot answer that question, it allows them to fill in the knowledge with the certainty that God made us, and certainty is better than explanatory power. Shamarri, if you read this, check out the book 'Why Evolution is True' by Jerry Coyne. Learning and understanding evolution was the cornerstone of losing religion for many of us because it's an extraordinary claim with extraordinary evidence, and if you believe in it, it's hard to believe in other extraordinary claims without the same sort of evidence.

[@DavidLindes]

Great way of saying that, Travis! I was having some similar thoughts, but didn't quite know how to express them... but you came up with something good here. I had a similar experience from reading Darwin's "On The Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection" (yup, I went to the original... a bit challenging, but good stuff, though I don't think I ever finished), and "The Selfish Gene" (30th or 40th anniversary edition recommended, for the extra chapters) by Dawkins. There's also "Darwin's Dangerous Idea", by Daniel Dennett, though I don't think I've actually read that one, based on his talks, I suspect it's good.
I wish I knew some good books on the subject from people who weren't white men... there probably are some, and I'm keeping my eyes out (if anyone has recommendations, please share!). There are some resources, though... for example, this video (and video series) by... still a white person, but at least a woman: th-cam.com/video/D3nO4cNNcOs/w-d-xo.html
Shamarri, if you see this, maybe give that a quick watch, and/or pick up one of the above books, and/or... ask a librarian for something...
Oh! "The Incredible Unlikeliness of Being: Evolution and the Making of Us" by Alice Roberts looks promising. I haven't read even a little of it, so I can't say for sure, but it definitely seems promising, judging in part from the first few minutes of a lecture from her:
th-cam.com/video/x858bOny4Gw/w-d-xo.html
Hopefully at some point there'll be (and/or I'll learn about) something from an author of color, as well. Here's hoping this gives enough options to have something that feels like a good fit, though. (Which of course, might be one of the books from white men! I don't know what'll fit for you, I just wish I knew of works from a more diverse set of authors.)

[@joshuarubbo2067]

This is one of your best videos to date, keep it up Reid and thank you Shamarri for an honest and open conversation.

[@mantistoboggan5171]

"i can't explain some of the hardest questions about the universe, so i'm going to chalk it up to a fictitious being, because i can't stand uncertainty".

[@Devious_Dave]

Shamarri said some crazy things (e.g. denying a thing means believing that thing - huh?) but what a lovely conversation. Hopefully she'll now re-think her reliance on faith & 'personal' truth. Great work, CC.

[@Correctrix]

That was a missed perfect opportunity to ask whether she believed in Woden, fairies and Chinese astrology. Any "no" proves she actually believes in them...
She doesn’t, of course, actually think that denying something shows that you believe in it. She’s just unthinkingly repeating her preacher.

[@fredericborloo1910]

You stay so calm through it all. I have respect for that! Amazing talk.

[@PaulTheSkeptic]

Don't miss that though. Did you see what happened there? "Personal experiences are why I believe." "So if someone convinced you that these were only coincidence, would you doubt?" (or however you put it) "No, I'd still believe." Okay then, that's not the reason she believes. Right? You're looking for the thing that if it wasn't true, that would lower her confidence.

[@runcaz7802]

This is my favorite one . Total respect for each other in this exchange.
I personally have never believed in the existence of a god. I find the idea of it repulsive. However I was convinced that we survived physical death. This to me was just another part of nature. I had plenty of evidence through out of body experiences. They were as real to me as anything.
What happened? Listening to atheists talking about the brain and how it functions. Now I am not so confident anymore about surviving physical death. This has been slow and painful switch. It's a case of wanting to believe things that are actually true as opposed to continuing to believe things because you WANT them to be true.

[@mackenziecline3685]

Thanks for this video Reid. I appreciated learning a little about your own story in this video. I know this video is 5 years old, but if at the time you were 30, and you deconstructed your faith about 7 years prior, you deconstructed at about the same age as me. I'm 24 and just deconstructed a little over 6 months ago. Thank you for your work in Street Epistemology. This conversation technique has been refreshing for me to learn about since leaving my faith. I was introduced to SE when I watched a video from Mark's Being Reasonable page about a month after leaving Evangelical Christianity.

[@Redhunteur2]

It never ceases to amaze me that someone with a "belief" and a "faith" in a being that cannot be shown to be real has 100% confidence in it. I don't have that much confidence in many physically real things that I can hold in my hand.

[@randellmathews5961]

I wanted you to tell her that
your mom never
( threatened ) to lock you in the basement and
Torture you for ( eternity ).

[@warptens5652]

also the basemen't isn't afire and populated by demons

[@DJ8017]

"Evidence of things hoped for" - How is this different than wishing upon a star? With this mentality, you have absolutely NO ability to distinguish fact from fantasy, or account for conformation bias.

[@daddyleon]

idk why I find it so infuriating when it's so expectable.
Q1: What is the main reason you believe?
A1: I can't explain it otherwise (note: this is an argument of ignorance)
Q:2 What if someone could explain it to you?
A2: Then it doesn't matter, because I have faith.
Then what was the point of A1? :-/

[@swamihuman9395]

Ed Zachery!

[@warptens5652]

A1 is the reason
A2 is the defense mechanism

[@mutex1024]

I wish you had asked her to define the word "truth" because she was using it to mean opinion. It seemed like you guys were talking past each other because of that at the beginning.

[@azgreenskeeper]

David Kelley
This was the only thing I wish Reid would have done differently... her definition of truth is different.

[@DavidLindes]

I, too, was hoping this would be explored more... though I think things went in a good way without it, too, so I'm not sure I mind, in the end. Definitely a good option for a future conversation with her, though, if one happens!

[@warptens5652]

that's why Anthony starts his interviews with the thought experiment about counting tic tacs.
you count 20, and a random guy passing by says "it's 32"
32, is that "right for him"? Or he is wrong?
The interviewee generally say that 32 is wrong, not "right for him", and having acknowledged that, they refrain from using the "right for me" loophole later in the conversation

[@JD-fx1np]

Yes good point!

[@stephenbayley1441]

Seems like a very nice lady. Science being monolithic, truth as dependent on experience, the biblical definition of faith, the analogy to a mother's love (noting that a mother, at least, can be proven to exist), the idea that there's no harm in just believing... These things she and I disagree on. However, she seemed like an honest, engaged and kind human being.

[@warptens5652]

15:06 "At one point, we were pretty much apes?"
Not "at one point", not "pretty much"
we are apes

[@briand.reynolds474]

I think it needed to be stated that individuals don't evolve, but the changes or attributes we see in individuals (and nobody denies, at least that I know of) from the combination of the parents genes add up over time.

[@pappy9473]

Shamarri is such a nice person. A great listener and thinker, too.
I loved her questioning towards the end of the conversation.

[@JorgeJimenez-bz7dx]

I love her confidence and demeanor. She was conducting the interview by the end of the video.

[@toddjohnson1180]

Great conversation. I appreciate the honesty, candor and respect of the conversation.

[@state924]

Hello. I just came to the comments section to ask why you didn't answer her question about, "But what does it hurt to believe and it not be true?"
I feel like she was digging in and was ready to be convinced and finding the harm might have helped her see why you want to believe in true things.
Anyway, very good talk, keep it up!

[@robertlong1733]

The ultimate authority is reality!!!
Great quote

[@galinamalovichko5756]

Really good talk!
People treat motherly love in those arguments as if it was magical and/or divine. In real life some mothers don't love their children, unfortunately. And yes, we know it from evidence. If a mother is neglectful or abusive, she likely doesn't love her child; if she is caring and treats him or her lovingly, she likely loves them. Same evidence-based reasoning as with other beliefs.

[@josiechapman2375]

Shamarri is very thoughtful. You could see her trying to be sure she understood you. I hope she continues thinking about this conversation. Thank you for sharing.

[@Redhunteur2]

I find the miracles/"how did you end up at this point in your life" very strange. If one of my parents would not have died when I was young, I would not have moved from that state. When I left home, I could have moved to a different city. When I lost a job, I could have gotten a job in another city or state or country. If I had not happened to meet friend A, I would not have gone out one long ago Saturday with him where he brought friend B along and we would not be best friends today.
If you look at the life you have led as having some sort of designed purpose, you are going to find it looks miraculous I suppose, but change any of the steps along the way and you would find yourself in a different place today. The only difference is, you would not know of the alternate path because it didn't happen and you would then think the current path was the one "designed" to be just so. The Goldilocks principle in full effect.

[@pfscpublic]

A good reverse interview too, Shamarri would make a great Street Epistemologist one day if she rejects faith as a reliable way to determine what is true! Good two way conversation.

[@Taboollc]

good conversation . She is willing to listen ! at 24: 10 : i disagree. It DOES hurt to believe in things that arent true. it affects your critical thinking in other areas. It divides people. It creates wars. It allows people to spend money on religions instead of spending it on research or helping the poor , the sick.

[@justinpearson9170]

So frustrating... people become the most skeptical of skeptics about miniscule things like "How would you know if your mother loved you?" but take faith as 'proof of things unseen' without an ounce of doubt... like... wtf does 'proof of things unseen' even MEANS?!?
Can't prove beyond absolute certainty but high confidence in how your mother treated you all your life and the actions they take it's more than enough. If not, like he said, you can see brain activity that could further increase confidence in your mother loving you with technology we have. And all she could say is 'how can you trust a computer?'
Ultimate skepticism out of fkn nowhere! 🤦🏾‍♂️😂

[@pbziegler]

I have recently discovered Street Epistimology and have watching many amazing videos. Just started watching yours and this one was very interesting. It turned out she did SE on you. I got the impression that we want to keep exploring what they believe and what supports their confidence in that belief rather than explain to them how we determine what we will believe. I though you did a very fine job of helping her realize that the basis of her belief is faith and not experience. But when she asked you what you thought happened when you died you surprised me. I think you would agree that the reality is, as for all of us, you don’t know. If we ask people to base their beliefs on reason and evidence then saying you belief anything about what happens after we die is belief without evidence. You do a great job with the tic tacs of explaining the difference between not believing something is true and believing something is false. So with after we die, you don’t believe that you will go to heaven and have tea with Jesus but that’s not the same as saying you believe based on convincing evidence that there is nothing that happens other than the worms consume your body.

[@VariedVids]

The first half was so very painful, but then it got a whole lot better when it was clear the wheels in her head finally began to turn.

[@jonathanrydberg8982]

11:54 - Reid, your question at this point was amazing, and the tic-tac box was such a great visual for Shamarri that when she sat back and understood your point, I could feel her breakthrough.
Nicely done man!
edit* for my money this is my favorite talk of yours that I've seen to date.

[@victorious592]

A respectful discussion between Reid and Shamarri. Obviously Shamarri has a sharp mind. To her credit, she remained open to dialogue on a sometimes sensitive subject. But this discussion reveals the insidious nature of religious indoctrination. It may provide some comfort but it often comes with a cost. Shamarri doesn't seem to understand truth. That's a real problem. Truth isn't an opinion or something we 'just choose to believe'. Believing something is 'true to you' doesn't make it true. Not surprisingly, the conversation centered around the 'god of the gaps', where those things beyond understanding MUST have a supernatural cause because anything other than that could cause a person of faith to question the validity of their beliefs. Saddened to hear anyone say "I don't trust science". Shamarri seemed unmoved but you could see her thinking. That's a beautiful thing.

[@rungavagairun]

When Shamirri pushed back about whether you have evidence that your mother loves you, I think you could ask her if she could distinguish between people who have a loving relationship or not based on observing their behavior. Can we make any observations that might lead to a reasonable conclusion that any given person has a loving relationship or feelings of love toward another person?

[@williamwhowasawoken6635]

Oh absolutely! Surely that question was rhetorical.

[@dnrevan778]

I am at the 19:10 mark and I am so proud of how you are handling this interview. This is a great way for believers to interact and think about the ideas being presented from a skeptical viewpoint. Dude, this is one of my favorite videos of yours! 6 minutes left too!

[@daddyleon]

Maybe it's time for us to ask how often Reid has played poker cus he sports a great poker face :)

[@Katenric]

She was super nice. I really like her. Basically, “I’ve experienced things that I count as sufficient evidence for my belief. You have a different metric for believing something and different experience. I respect you”. Humans can be so nice sometimes.

[@nessaarandur7740]

Good talk. I did cringe a bit when you said "youtube videos and reddit" because she predictably jumped straight to thinking you were talking about a particular narrative rather than the fact that those things introduced you to the methods of epistemology, but you clarified that a second later. Maybe I'm overly conscious of this sort of "waiting to pounce" thing as even though I've never tried SE, I have had a few people ask me what "narrative" I follow to get my information during discussions. Their intent is always focussing on those things to "debunk facts" and not whether the reasoning itself is sound. Shamarri seemed genuine though, and seemed to understand your clarification.

[@robertkortus]

This might be the first time I've seen you get into your own beliefs this deeply. Interesting how the conversation turned to her asking the questions.

[@awkwardukulele6077]

Shamarri, If you ever see this, I'd like to add something about whether a person loves another.
part of the problem with measuring love is that many people disagree about what love *Means*
if you were to say love is a *feeling*, then going into an M.R.I. machine would give you evidence whether a person loves another. M.R.I.'s read people's mind's activity, and while we cant see peoples' innermost thoughts, we CAN read their feelings. In this case, an M.R.I. would work.
but most people believe love is more than feelings, and I would agree, you may as well. Personally, I believe love is you choosing to do loving things for a person. anyone in a relationship who's gotten through tough times can attest the willpower that is involved. In this case, whatever a person *does* to show their love is evidence of their love.
there are other forms of love people may experience, but i would like to keep my opinion somewhat brief, so I will add one last thing
whether talking about love, or God, or anything really, it's alright to say you don't know the answer. You mentioned many times that their are things in your life or about the universe that *can't* be explained. You then go on to *explain* those things as being God's work. I hope you can see why saying you can't explain something and then trying to explain could be a problem. If anybody does not know something, then they do not know it. *any explanation a person gives* needs to be thought about and questioned to make sure it is true. Not knowing isn't nice, I realize that. but not knowing AND PRETENDING THAT YOU DO KNOW is much worse. If you act like you know and you really don't, then you will *never* know. Even if you find out the answer is exactly what you thought it was, once you question you won't have to pretend you know the answer, you will *Actually know*. I would ask you to not deprive yourself of that gift of knowledge. Thank you for listening, I hope you have a good day.

[@rafaelgarcia-xk7eu]

What do you think happens after we die?
I think we return to the place we where before we where born.

[@frankdouglas8146]

Reid your conversations rival watching game of thrones for me. And GOT is must watch tv lol

[@jsull81]

Frank Douglas
The books are even better, & as a bonus, it makes sense! : )

[@dnrevan778]

Also I notice that she brought up "choosing to believe" quite a bit. I think you should have called her out on this. One can not choose what convinces them. Maybe this would have brought up a different focus of conversation for a little bit, but I think it may have been worth it.

[@RandyWanat]

dnrevan778 Well, that would get into a Bible fight, as it does say belief is a choice. Better to avoid that pitfall and go for more productive avenues.

[@paulmelville2126]

He’s such a good interviewer/listener, a rarely used skill. She is clearly intelligent, having a fundamental understanding of evolution, but her religious faith blocks her reasoning skills. It was a interesting discussion and she was very nice at the end.

[@caldelt]

A great example for when it's appropriate to answer questions.

[@KeatrithAmakiir]

Great talk, I would never be able to remain so calm in the face of the constant argument from ignorance fallacy.

[@ApolloBeatz1]

These talks convince me that philosophy should be mandatory (or at least some critical thinking classes). Imagine how better off society would be if people actually learned about epistemology, about what belief and truth are, what knowledge is, how to best secure it, etc.

[@anthonynuzzo9512]

At 3:31 the question of reliability is posed which of course immediately raises one or more objections to externalism recognizing that reliabilism is a constituent of epistemic externalism, and that externalists requires a reliable system for belief formation, but do not require any evidence of that system's reliability. This is one of the key flaws of Street Epistemology, one in which I will argue in a forth coming paper which is long in the making having to stop mid-process to address some family issues. I hope to have it completed in the near future.

[@madshorn5826]

I don't agree with her, but damn she is smart. Wow.
And a conversation where both participants listen to each other - on the internet. Awesome. Way to go!

[@West3720]

" the ultimate authority is reality" well said

[@user-bk1zx2wi9q]

Fantastic talk, kudos to both participants.

[@futureboy7653]

It totally looks like you stifled a yawn @ 7:45! Hahaha! I would've had a hard time not yawning my head off with this stuff. Yet again, a great conversation!

[@drewhunt9205]

14:10. Shamari becomes the SE and begins a wonderful set of questions

[@ncooty]

Another very good interview, Reid. I'm glad I have the luxury of rolling my eyes at some of the stuff you hear.
I find it interesting that people put such stock into gibberish statements. People simply don't engage with the meanings of words. "The substance of things hoped for..." What is the substance of a unicorn or a care bear? "... the evidence of things not seen." That sounds to me like a colloquial version of the fallacy of affirming the consequent. "True to me," shouldn't ring true to any operational brain. I suspect most people are just regurgitating word soup that they think is socially expected. All that said, it was somewhat nice that this young lady seemed to mirror *some* of the interview techniques.

[@timsabo4153]

As a Theist, I really wish there were more conversations like this taking place with young people. Critical thinking is sorely lacking in the U.S.

[@grogu833]

But you're a theist.Seems like critical thinking has done nothing for you😂😂.What impact would it have on the rest of humanity?.

[@kazuya246]

"You can't prove love." Stop saying this, Christians. It is a really, really bad argument.

[@hubbellmountain]

Probably the best SE video I've seen yet and I've watched all of yours.

[@markhermanson2046]

Shamarri has all the tools of a great thinker! I think with more exposure applying her critical thinking skills to more situations she'll be on her way out. I know this was a little more flipped with her questioning you but it worked well with her seeing how her projected situation falls apart.

[@joedove6933]

"If someone wanted to believe there is no god - Is that a reliable way to prove there is no God?" Thats flipping awesome dude.

[@cleanandstoner4008]

That was nice. I like that you allowed her to question you,. and that she did.

[@Sebastian-cd1mo]

She's undeliberately hitting the point of a major problem of today's world - if we can't agree on what the truth is, it's really hard to go forward. 🤔

[@peaceandfood7952]

I think easier to talk like that with a stranger but when it's someone close to you it's so hard to keep calm.....

[@Buttaman2218]

“You need evidence to believe in something?” Blew her mind!!

[@Alkamar96]

This is a great conversation, I feel it may have dipped a little into apologetics, but it seems that it was unavoidable as she wasn't taught any of evolution and critical thinking in school most likely.
One thing of note,
23:59 - I would argue that it does hurt to believe. There are many known cases of the idea of hell tormenting and causing absolute fear in children that lasts long into adult hood. Beliefs alter your decisions, your morals. There are people whom still believe that women are subjects of men, that it women's duty to obey, without question, and to serve men, all the while backing this up and standing behind "god". There are people whom still believe that it's ok to persecute gays and lesbians, because of a few lines in their holy book stating to stone them. There is definite, measurable harm caused by beliefs. All beliefs, alter who you are. Finding beliefs that are empirically true to live by is not just a choice, it should be a moral imperative.

[@danyellwar77]

Great Talk you are so good I liked the flow of this conversation....I was hoping you would ask her to give ha an example of one of these unexplainable things. Just because I wanted to know lol

[@markallenbialik]

You can demonstrate and measure love by the evidence, or lack thereof, of the behaviors that we associate to the term and by which we define it.

[@neotericphoenix5811]

Blown away! I wish more people were like her. Incredible discussion. Wow!

[@MykolasGilbert]

"Some people believe in science"? Science is provable and testable, there is no faith required!!!

[@dersitzpinkler2027]

Oh man, this one was intense. Amazing job, Reid!

[@petepsy]

When the discussion changed and your subject started to ask questions, she then was unhappy with the answers and felt they were a confrontation to her own beliefs. There was a subtle chilling in her demeanour "it's OK" as if now she was wasting her time. She then took control of the interview process and terminated it. Just over half-way through, the questioning and answers were on track, they were having an affect, they also got lost at the point when somehow the questions got tongue-tied and a grasping to express what was said. However, I did think the question about whether someone chooses to not believe in a god then made it true or not was insightful. Catching believers in religions is a little like catching a live fish already covered in olive oil. Their mental defences are on high alert. I think examining what truth was may have been a better option and then terminating the interview, revealing your own atheism may been negative. Who knows?

[@matthewdragomir2261]

I hate it when people compare science to religion as if they're in the same boat and you need to have "faith" that science is real. Science by definition is the "study of the physical and natural world through observation and experimentation". You don't need to have any type of faith that science is real because science doesn't use faith to determine truth whereas, that's the only thing religion uses.
To add, I would've tried to specify the difference between objective vs subjective truth. She mentioned multiple times that something is real if it's true to you. Objective reality doesn't work that way.
Overall though, this was a great discussion in SE. I need to use this more when engaging with Christians (specifically my family).

[@dawnavalentine8355]

She's a smart girl, and you got her mind going in the right direction. Good job Mr cordial.

[@theshirecrier-310]

Her skeptical look is phenomenal!

[@chasehonsinger1035]

I’m sure it was a slip up, but you said you believed in luck at one point, i thought that would be a really interesting conversation.

[@ultimategamer2669]

12:18 I think an example easier to understand would be "If I'm not convinced Peter is guilty of a crime, does that mean I believe he's necessarily innocent?"

[@teardrop-in-a-fishbowl]

Some people have so many gaps in their knowledge they have to fill them with god. The bad thing is not only their faith, it´s their unawareness of reality itself.

[@duke222222]

It might be worth asking people a) do they want the assertion to be true, b) if yes, is it true because they want it to be, and does that mean anything they want to be true is therefore true, c) should they want something to be true before they find out if it is or not