I'm a woman in my twenties and I consider myself a Legends fan. I can clearly see how strongly this fact has influenced me ever since I picked my first EU novel. At first, I read Polish translations, but then there was a book I couldn't get, but I wanted to read so badly that I decided to try to do it in English. Hence, the very first book that I tried to read in English was "Shadows of the Empire"; I was twelve at that time. It was such a struggle. However, reading this book definitely ignited a sparkle in me, as now I'm doing a PhD in English Linguistics.
I've seen a little theory somewhere that might explain why Disney retconned the entire EU and why they're reluctant to continue it again. Basically, Lucasfilm was generous enough to work out a deal with any new authors that promised all the authors proper ownership and royalties for any of their original stories and characters. So if Lucasfilm made a Thrawn action figure, Timothy Zhan would receive royalty payment for using his character. The theory is when Disney bought Lucasfilm, they didn't like this and cancelled the entire EU, so that when an author writes a new story Disney will gain complete control of the profits taken.
The royalties theory is quite old, but it could be true. Zahn denies it, but what on Earth does THAT prove? That man has sold out to the Mouse. You can't trust him.
The Expanded Universe/Legends is the only Star Wars continuity thats legitimate in my mind. And I treat Disney Star Wars like how Dune fans treat Brian Herberts Dune books.
Excellent analogy. You either follow the original creator's vision, even if it's not perfect. Or you follow the cash grab vision that ignores any prior vision in favor of its own.
yah, wether you loved or hated it, I always saw Revenge of the Sith as like a key, from ep 4 to Phantom menace was the Star Wars Silver Age, timeless classics but not the full picture, and from Phantom Menace to 2014 as the golden age, say what you want about the Prequels, but with the release of Revenge of the Sith it was like a key that connected the saga and finally unlocked the ENTIRE franchise for deeper exploration, and with the saga finished at last we got some of the best Star Wars stories because they could pull elements from any where in the saga and weren't restricted to story limitations of the time. then in 2014 began the Dark age of Star Wars, at first it was bright with a little sadness in the EU no longer considered canon, but TFA sparked interest for more movies, and Rebels was decent enough, Rouge One made us trust Disney, it was great for a few years, but then TLJ happened and it became a flaming and irepairable train wreck. after seeing this video the sins of TLJ are far worse then I realized. after Disney made 30 years worth of material thrown out, we trusted them and TLJ ruined the future of Star Wars in movies, but ruined the very Sequel trilogy they had been building, and I now realize it's worse because the old EU won't have anything new since they invested everything into the new stuff, so all around a disaster. TLJ is with out a doubt the worst thing to ever happen to Star Wars.
@Chosen One Yes. The only ones who came back were just pretenders and cultists. But they never managed to reach the height of the Rule of Two, which made sure every Sith Lord was more powerful than the last until Darth Sidious became the most powerful Sith Lord of all time. After Anakin restored balance, the Sith lost all their power over the Force and the galaxy.
@Chosen One The Sith aren't the only ones who have managed to take over or attack Coruscant. And so what if they started another war? The Sith have started eight galaxy-wide wars over history; the Great Hyperspace War, the Exar Kun War, the Jedi Civil War, the Great War, the Jedi-Sith War, the Clone Wars, the Second Galactic Civil War and the Sith-Imperial War. Starting destructive conflicts is what the Sith are known for and why they are feared. But that doesn't change the fact that Palpatine's reign was the height of the Sith's power and dominion. Why would I admit there are multiple chosen ones? That would contradict the concept of a "chosen one". Anakin was the only chosen one, and then there is the legendary Sith'ari which fans have debated over the years whether it is Darth Bane (who perfected the Sith teachings) or Darth Sidious (who accomplished the ultimate goal of the Sith). And Revan was not the chosen one in any way. Revan was simply an overambitious man who failed to see that he was doing more harm than good for the galaxy.
Another ridiculous thing I've heard is how Star Wars "was dead" after 2005 and that "Disney saved it." Anyone who thinks that lives under a rock. Star Wars would have kept going strong if Lucasfilm had never been sold.
Yeah, I'm 90% sure anyone who actually believes that was either way to young to remember that at the time or had somehow never touched Star Wars before 2012.
The sequels is a giant middle finger to all fans who follow Star Wars for so many years. They destroy the whole legacy with those movies. And they are creating a new universe to fit in the sequels.
You hate the sequels because you are star wars fans I hate the sequels because they killed off Thrawn and because Palpatine's final death already put a severe blow to the already fragmented empire We are not the same
0:00 INTRO 6:00 "The expanded universe was never canon." 17:50 "George Lucas never considered the expanded universe canon." 21:13 "George Lucas was not involved with the expanded universe." 42:10 "The Star Wars expanded universe had no continuity." 48:58 "The expanded universe was __% crap" 56:14 "Skippy the force-sensitive droid was canon within the EU" 58:54 "Legends doesn't need its own time-line, they can keep bringing legends elements into the new canon like they've been doing." 1:05:33 "Kights of the old republic is still canon and that's the only EU story that I care about" 1:07:34 "The expanded universe was too big to follow" 1:08:53 "A Star Wars reboot was necessary to maintain continuity" 1:09:58 Give us legends movement 1:10:38 "They want to overthrow Disney, de-canonize the new canon, and bring star wars back to the way it was." 1:12:13 "They're all trolls and bullies, they bullied Kelly Marie Tran!" 1:22:48 "They're all fat, white, straight, alt-right, men living in their parents' basements." 1:24:48 "They support a boycott of all Disney star wars movies and products." 1:27:53 CONCLUSION
I hate this dumb gold yellow Legends stripe over the Expanded Universe books and comics I like, because it's discriminating and humiliating and because this sigil over every non-Disney original Star Wars literary creation officially means that at least every confirmed original Star Wars EU work has exactly the same EU canonicity and the same narrative value as every original Star Wars literary piece which was formerly established as non-canon within the EU continuity and excluded from it because of contradicting previous official EU media or because of just being absurd and unrealistic tales which have never taken place in the EU timeline.
It's absolute heck trying to track down non-Legends bannered copies of the books and comics. But, I'm trying... Some. No. A lot of the old stories were never re-published under Disney. So, to have a complete (or semi complete) collection would have so many mis-matched covers and versions. And, if possible, I'd rather shell out the money for some pre-2014 copies. I'm not talking first editions either. I just don't want that stupid Legends banner or the Disney logo anywhere on these great stories... Too bad they're all an arm and a leg now... But I'm trying.
I like the Legends Label for me ist is the sign of the golden Star Wars age the legends Ok Thais silly but im to Young to remember the times the Legends were Canon
Legends timeline will never continue as long as Disney owns Star Wars. To continue it and give fans what we've wanted all along would be an admittance by them that they royally screwed up this franchise. And they have their collective heads so far up their own asses that they would rather keep pumping out the same crap for years to come than acknowledge that they were wrong.
Sadly, Disney shills and casual consoomers are easy to distract and sway with breadcrumbs, like The Mandalorian or TCW Season 7, which is why they won't collectively revolt....yet.
we need more people who are reasonable like him. Even if you don't agree with what he says he is polite and doesn't want to convince you everything he doesn't like is shit or that people who like the new canon are idiots and the new canon is shit. We need way more people like that
The writer's guild legally requires Disney to include the phrase "BASED ON characters created by George Lucas." This phrase also appears before every superhero movie you will ever watch because the movie is only A VERSION of the original story, and can not add, subtract, or erase the story. THIS PHRASE NEVER HAD TO BE USED IN THE ENTIRE EU POST 1991 (video games included) BECAUSE IT WAS UNDENIABLY PART OF THE STORY, AUTHORIZED BY THE OWNER.George Lucas can be quoted as saying "There is no story past episode 6. Its a certain story about Anakin Skywalker and once he dies, that's the end of the story. There is no story about Luke Skywalker APART FROM THE BOOKS." "I have left explicit instructions for there to be no more features. There will definitely be no 7 8 or 9." Disney can CALL it canon, but its only BASED ON Star Wars. There's George canon, there's the EU: the ONLY continuation of the movies PERSONALLY AUTHORIZED BY GEORGE LUCAS which George kept separated from flat out NON-CANON, and there's Disney canon, which can LEGALLY only be called BASED on Star Wars, just like Tom Hollands character is BASED on Spiderman. Call it 'canon' if you want, but the only reason you call it that is to get butts in the theater.Everyone, can we stop using the term "Legends"? Its degrading, and only encourages Disney. They aren't "legends", its the EU.
Anti-EU fans: Palpatine cloning himself to have a comeback, that's just butch of crap! Rise of Skywalker: Palpatine come backs through cloning! Gee, I wonder....
As much as I hated TLJ and the death of the EU, when I first watched the trailer for IX and heard that old familiar cackle at the end when it went black...I got chills. I was so excited. But I was hoping to see THE SENATE whip out a lightsaber and actually do some real fighting, and then he just ended up shooting a bunch of lightning skyward and sucking life like a glorified dementor. I was a bit let down.
@@Colon-D...No, it wasn't! Dark Empire it's a consistent and great story by itself, with good characters (not just the old ones, but the new ones too), good new elements, good storyline, etc., unlike Rise of Skywalker!
They've been copying off the EU from the beginning. The thing is, they disguise it poorly and often screw it up even with the crutch. Jan Ors in Dark Forces vs Jyn Erso in Rogue one. Same story point, ridiculously similar characters.
@@justinkemp8648 bcs legends is badly exposed, while having good stories. So they decided to make high-exposure canon stuff based on legends, bcs they are good.
Another thing EU haters don't understand is even though there were a few contradictions in the EU almost every single one was FIXED and EXPLAINED. They didn't just leave them hanging.
Statement: I recall someone calling Boba Fett being a clone as contradicting his old Backstory. I believe that was retconned to be a false narrative as part of Fett assuming a false identity.
Sequel shills will call the EU crap bu tthe sequal writers just ripp off some good bits from the EU and made it alot shittier in the Sequal The Emperor coming back- The EU did it better Han Solos son turning to the dark side - The EU did it better The Extended Civil War between The New Republic and the Imperial Remnants- The EU did it better
100%. There is only one thing that Canon has over the EU: Newer and better tv shows and movies in terms of production quality. But in terms of actually writing, the EU, having over 30 years of history and truly talented writers, dominates.
@@dr.boring7022 eh the shows aren’t that good, rebels only good bits were those with maul and thrawn, in maul’s case the best scene he had was the final duel with obi wan which is DIRECTLY inspired by a comic from the EU that depicted the exact same scenario (but better), and as for thrawn well he was decent but still a massive downgrade from what he was in the EU (though they did choose a great voice actor for him, i’m gonna give them that).
Where we're these "continuity advisors" when these sequels were made? Everyone contradicted the OT, and even themselves, sometimes within a matter of minutes.
@Lord Kuuga Not an EU hater, but I do like the new canon (Including The Last Jedi, or should I say, especially The Last Jedi) and I can tell you that personally I'm against bringing Palpatine back. In the end though, it all depends on how well executed it will be.
Timestamps 00:06:00 - The Expanded Universe was never canon 00:17:50 - George Lucas never considered the Expanded Universe canon 00:21:14 - George Lucas was not involved with the Expanded Universe 00:42:10 - The Star Wars Expanded Universe had no continuity 00:48:58 - The Expanded Universe was ___% crap 00:56:12 - Skippy the Force Sensitive Droid was canon within the EU 00:58:53 - Legends doesn't need its own timeline, they can keep bringing Legends elements into the new canon like they've been doing 01:05:33 - Knights of the Old Republic is still canon and that's the only EU story that I care about 01:07:34 - The Expanded Universe was too big to follow 01:08:53 - A Star Wars reboot was necessary to maintain continuity 01:09:59 - Give Us Legends Movement 01:10:35 - They want to overthrow Disney, de-canonize the new canon, and bring Star Wars back to the way it was 01:12:12 - They're all trolls and bullies, they bullied Kelly Marie Tran! 01:22:47 - They're all fat, white, straight, alt-right, men living in their parents' basements 01:24:48 - They support a boycott of all Disney Star Wars movies and products 01:27:52 - Conclusion
If you pay close attention, you can see that from 2003 Clone Wars Grievous' earlier to later appearances, his body gains a more off white color palette and his cape's interior turns red.
The issue is Kathleen Kennedy and the sale of Lucasfilm to Disney. Period. In a recent interview with Kathleen Kennedy about producing an upcoming Star Wars series titled The Acolyte, Kennedy herself states she does not like Star Wars, she does not want to produce Star Wars, she wants to reimagine the whole concept of Star Wars, removing all the elements created by George Lucas, things such as The Force, The Jedi and The Sith, etc. So, basically all the things that make Star Wars what it is, she wants to do away with and produce something entirely different, destroying the whole mythology. The question is, why bother? why not just go off on your own, create your own production company, produce your own stuff....? Oh that's right, because Star Wars is a cash cow that they are bleeding dry.....I forgot. All of this division, fan backlash and bombs at the box office, low ratings etc. and disdain for Disney Star Wars exists because the same people who preach about diversity and inclusion do nothing but practice hypocrisy in doing the exact opposite, they create division, make things exclusive, segregate and alienate the actual fans. They are the ones engaging in the things they rail against because Kathleen Kennedy and her team admit they do not like Star Wars and have an active stated goal of intentionally destroying the concept and vision of the Star Wars franchise as created by George Lucas. They clearly have political and ideological motivations behind what they do, that ultimately affect the influence of Star Wars on our society and culture as a modern day mythology. The good values and important life lessons that this mythology can teach us do not want to be imparted upon younger generations by the powers that be, lest those younger generations take those lessons learned and use them in rebellion against those in power and destroy their brainwashing. It is glaringly obvious as to who is in the wrong with all of this. They do what they do intentionally.
My first entry into the Expanded Universe back in the day was the Dark Empire comics. I've never been into the Star Wars novels (until the Rogue Squadron books, that is) as I've always believed that the impressive visuals from planets, creative alien species and cool advanced technology are probably a third of what makes the Star Wars franchise so awesome and captivating. Comics capture that aspect way better than the books ever could.
I was and it was great I’ve gotten way more into the EU recently though after the sequels and Disney’s purchase of the franchise. It reminds me of the good old days and how good Star Wars used to be
I honestly can’t stand people who hate Legends asking us “Why do you love the EU if theres stuff like clones of Palpatine and force sensitive droids?” They need to understand that most of us love the expanded universe for the stuff that made it great like Thrawn and Darth Bane. That’s like if I asked a person who loves the Disney Canon, “Why do you love the new expanded universe if you theres heli-sabers and Ben Swolo?”
"“Why do you love the EU if theres stuff like clones of Palpatine and force sensitive droids?” " To be quite honest cloning and using your force essence to get there doesn't sound far off and sensitive force droids are from infinity anyway.
I mean, Shards were canon, and kind of force-sensitive droids? I guess there's also 4-LOM and some other random stuff that's not really verifiable, but people really like to bring up the never canon Skippy for whatever reason.
Disney: yeah the expanded universe ain't cannot but why wouldn't you buy our expanded universe that is at the end of the day the same thing but with slight changes here and there? ( what wouldn't you do for money amirite? )
Best. Video. Essay. Ever! At least from what I've seen that centered on the Star Wars EU and the EU movement. You know that Matt Wilkins has filled playlists of this stuff but this something else. You've even got most if not all of your sources listed in the descriptions or in-video! It could use some work on recording script but I can understand if you were pressed for time. Every single one of your arguments are artistically and masterfully detailed and explained to counter those made by the EU haters. I will be referencing your video in the future. Seeing those Star Wars Insider images makes me want to look through the collection of Star Wars magazines I've inherited. Most of them aren't Insider though so I want to find those that I missed out on. Some of those that you showed looked interesting. When talking about comic books and how successful they were, I would suggest digging up Dark Horse's sales at the time when those volumes/issues were released to get a sense on how popular and how well-received they were. However, I do understand that this would be a daunting task as I personally have no way of finding this out. I'm simply suggesting this as an option. 54:03 Is that a Jaster Mereel Boba Fett in-package that I see? And is that Captain Rex beside it? Sweet. The super-sized Prince Xizor is pretty neat. A pretty decent collection of books and graphic novels too. 1:05:03 Where did you get that fan depiction of cartoon Mara Jade? When I first saw that I was startled by how close it is to the Rebels animation. Seeing you cover the Kelly Marie Tran scandal was really invigorating. While I did follow the news of the accusations from the Expanded Universe articles and blogs, I hadn't followed the Twin Suns Foundation at the time and so I wasn't aware of the statements they made. Still, I love the passion you brought when reading the press releases and the following tweets. 1:25:44 I remember those name-callings on fan sites that I used to follow such as Furious Fanboys. It really decreased my respect for the websites. Speaking of incoming Legends reprints, I can't wait for the Old Republic Epic Collection to be released in the spring of next year! I've bought the previous two volumes on Amazon and I can't wait to have the full set plus with additional comic series that tie-in to the original series and to the games. I was so enamored when I read the Epic Collection that I ordered the old volumes that finished the story soon after. So now I'm going to get multiple copies of one my favorite old EU graphic novels. It had been a long time since I read those volumes and I did skip a few storylines but it stayed in my mind. I'll definitely be on the lookout for the pre-orders for the CW General Kenobi figure.
Thank you. You made me love Lucas again. For the longest time I thought that he was retconning Star Wars with Filoni. It is so nice to hear that he had a positive view of the EU.
This may very well be one of the most important videos I've ever seen uploaded. So many of these points have circulated throughout the community before, but to have them all laid out in one magnificent video... it's the best thing I could have possibly wished for! You masterfully tackled so many of these lies that are so often believed, even by star wars fans. Unfortunately, thanks to the carelessness of internet entertainment "journalism" and online twitter types, the truth doesn't really seem to matter much. It is just believed, because that's what everyone else thinks. Which very much saddens me. As a bit of a personal anecdote, when you were talking about your experience growing up with eu content everywhere, that really resonated with me as well. I also had similar experiences growing up with Star Wars. The dark horse star wars comics in particular, like Republic, or the amazing Lucasarts games like kotor and bounty hunter. (also quick shoutout to the young Boba Fett books!) These were all a huge part of a universe that I was excited to dive deep into! Never did I once consider it any less valid than the films, or even too daunting to undertake. Because the very idea of there being so much more of this thing I loved made it wonderfully exciting to explore. I wanted to learn more about the star wars universe. And just because I hadn't read "X book" or "Y comic" didn't make any part of it less enjoyable Admittedly back then I cared a whole lot less about the notion of 'canon'. It was all a part of the same universe so why would I care...? But even when I was little I understood the "infinities" thing. How is it that those who write for a living don't get that?? Your longform videos are always fantastic and I was thoroughly engaged from start to finish. I can only imagine how long this must have taken to put together! Everything is researched and cited properly, making it very easy to follow along with each point. Hopefully this is eye opening to those who may have not heard anything like this before. I especially appreciated the common myths of "George didn't care about the eu" and "the eu was X percent garbage" being tackled here, as they amazingly perpetuate heavily throughout the fandom. It was just a delight to behold as you put everything together, plain as day to understand. All and all, well done good sir. Well done. I do hope you intend to make more in-depth videos like this in the future, your words speak volumes with how you tackle each issue. And I rather enjoyed every and every moment of it. May the force be with you, always.
You can really tell the quality of news we receive when you look at how it mainstream news outlet discusses a topic you are familiar with. For example, my interests lie with the history of ocean liners, which naturally includes the RMS _Titanic._ Like with _Star Wars,_ the ship's story and legacy have been warped into something unrecognizable from the historical events due to the rampant clickbait and yellow journalism.
As a Star Wars fan who’s kinda in the outer rim when it comes to these kind of “fan politics” I hadn’t even realized any of this stuff was going on. Im just gonna hang out back here with a cup of tea and my xwing comic books
The give us legends movement/legend fans in general has had many problems throughout the years due to several misconceptions caused by lack of research. The worst case scenario in my opnion was when fans were given death threats and being labled as "spoiler jihadist" during the time before episode 7 release.
It could be a possbility but i am a bit unsure about it since the ones who were responsible for the slandering the legends movement by convincing several socials medias that the Alliance to perserve the expanded universe was a Star Wars jihadist group with the goals of spoiling episode 7 has been quiet up to my knowledge. The whole thing was mostly done by a former memeber that was extremely angry and petty about being kicked out of the group and started the whole thing for revenge, once he acomplished it he and his associates kinda went quiet. I think the one's responsible for the Kelly Tran scandal was probably the same people thqt claimed were responsible for the bad ratings on rotten tomato.
@@ohitsblockbusterguy7466 I mean, I didn't see VII until 2 weeks after premiere, and I hadn't gotten a single spoiler. I think some blew the whole 'spoiler jihad' out of proportion.
@@TheDylandProductions The thing is at the time it had been ten years since the last Star Wars movie released in theaters and the hype was at an all time high. As the months drew closer many fans unfortunately got paranoid at the thought of spoilers and it didn't help that many Star Wars fan groups did as a precaution, without even bothering to ask for the groups side of the story spreaded awareness to the rumor to help prevent their own group members from being spoiled. The overreacting fear of spoilers and the power of social media can be a deadly combination.
@@ohitsblockbusterguy7466 @Grand Admiral Thrawn The Kelly Marie Tran scandal was just hollywood and the entertainment industry framing fans for Kelly's evasion of social media, which she says was due to the treatment of women like her in hollywood. Please do keep in mind she doesn't even mention the fans, but the shills know better. They even did the same to Ahmed Best.
I can't believe Hidalgo is acting that way. All those years he massaged the continuity errors the best he could. GL mandated that comics, novels and even game storylines didn't contractict the movies or each other. This is fucking rude and wrong .
I remember sometime after Lucasfilm announced the decolonization of of the EU, people were actually happy, saying that the new Disney canon will be far superior.
Excellent video. It pains me that so many misconceptions about Legends have surfaced. No doubt this is a result of ignorance/ LucasFilm wanting to slander this. I suspect because their own canon is a load of crap. Outside of a few decent elements. BloodLine and Thrawn. I will be upfront; a lot of my experience with the old EU came from KOTOR. KOTOR got me into the EU and I absolutely adore that side of the SWs universe. I am also like you in that I read the clone wars DH comics and even enjoyed the micro series. And appreciated how ROTS tied back into those stories. Again, proving how GL valued Legends. As for TCW, I absolutely agree with you that it does not fit into Legends. That said, I still enjoy the show as a different, alternative take on The Clone Wars. And I'd be fine accepting it in Disney canon or its own thing. And as for my least favorite elements of Legends, Cloak of deception I could not stand. I love James Luceno, but that book was super dry to me.
@@anthonygarcia8749 how is KOTOR fanfic when it was made at LucasArts (with Bioware) and authorized by the big boss? And how does it "not align with George's vision"? If anything, Disney's sequel trilogy doesnt align with George's vision.
Tadd you knocked one out of the park and the atmosphere on this one and as such definitely earned a like from me. This vid definitely needs to be shared in as many places as possible on as many platforms as possible. In addition, this is one of a few diamonds in the YT ocean that needs a couple million views. May the force be with you and have a pleasant day.
I don't know... right now Legends is unsullied by Disney. If they continue it, we now allow them to inject their low-quality and forced content into our beloved universe.
I find it quite funny when people say that legends is too large or whatnot. Like isnt lots of stories and details a good thing, like because I love Star Wars Im happy theres content there to keep me entertained for years. Seriously how is that a bad thing????
@@MrWepx-hy6sn Filoni is not any better than Kennedy. He's a manchild who rewrote the nigh-perfect Multimedia Project to add his own OCs and make them the protagonists of the saga. Disney has given him much more power than George did, and look what we got: Rebels, a kid show which emasculated the Empire, Vader, Palpatine and Thrawn; Book of Boba Fett, which ruined Boba; Obi-Wan, which ruined Vader and Kenobi even more; and Ashoka, the culmination of all of Filoni's Mary Sue OCs fucking the canon over.
30 years of great stories when Star Wars sold. Kept SW alive through the 90s when there was nothing until the prequels and ONE storyline without multi verse.
I'm so tired to see Disney fanboy shit all over the old EU, thank you for making this video. The EU needs some respect! It's the only thing that kept the franchise alive during years of nothing.
Randaches especially when Disney keeps ripping off ideas from the EU. Thrawn, Force 'holograms', 'purifying' a Lightsaber Crystal, crossguard lightsabers, a blind Jedi helping found the Rebel Allaince (Rahm Kota in the EU). And now apparently Palpatine coming back from the dead.
By "keeping it alive" you mean "pumping out trash". The EU was the first to ruin the canon, followed by the prequels. Star Wars is disfigured by all these bullshit "canons". Just because Disney made a comparably shitty one, that doesn't suddenly validate the garbage that came before.
@@revlarmilion9574 a yes, hello OT fanboy. Shut the fuck up. It's because of people like you that George sold the franchise to Disney. You don't know shit about the EU. Get lost.
Disclaimer: I have not yet finished the video, but I couldn't hold it in anymore. Thank you for this video. Thank you for all your videos. Thank you for this channel and Manda-LORE. Thank you for what you do. The expanded universe is Star Wars. Always has been, and just because they say otherwise... It doesn't change a damned thing. The evidence is there. The proof is there. Legends never die, and we must all remember and spread the message of what it was. We cannot let Disney Wars run unopposed. I don't believe we will ever get new EU content, but it doesn't mean we have to let its name be tarnished without defense.
I don't really care about what's "canon" and what's "non-canon." No label is going to take away something that's already been published and experienced by fans. But it gets a little tiring to hear people consistently saying that EU was somehow was "never canon" because George Lucas made comments saying he didn't like (some of) it or that he didn't consider it a part of his work. George Lucas said HE didn't consider it canon. NOT that it was never canon. The official LucasFilm position pre-2014 was ALWAYS that the EU and the movies were designed to be a part of one single continuity. All of this is well-documented. LucasFilm - under George Lucas' leadership and with his seal of approval - actually addressed his own comments several times and said that he was being taken out of context. The company said what Lucas was doing was reserving the right to do whatever he wanted with Star Wars. That when he was writing new material, he was never going to be beholden to other people's writing and that he didn't have to consider EU material when handling the internal consistency of HIS works. But the company position UNDER GEORGE LUCAS was always that EU material was canon until he or they decided that it wasn't. And not once did he ever officially deny that. Not even when they were essentially correcting his own statements.
Only reason I openly state that "Disney Star Wars will never be Canon to me" is to exclusively piss off Pixie Dusters. I do not lose sleep over the existence of Disney Trilogy even tho I am legitimately pissed at how they handled Fynn just to pander to China. But what can you expect from Soulless Business Suits? I'll just enjoy Death Troopers while the people that read my statements seethe with rage unable to live with the fact opposing opinions exist in the same world as they do.
Honestly if they just continued old EU as "Legends" (another universe like Marvel or DC ?) almost no one would be mad or at least not as much but throwing 40 years of storyline away was just a trash move.
This figure of Obi-Wan wearing clone armour and brown tunic like he should do in the Star Wars: Clone Wars microseries chapters which are included in the Volume One DVD is actually a pretty bad and inaccurate replica, because in this not-EU loyal figure Obi-Wan is wearing a black clone body undersuit instead of wearing a dark brown one like that of the microseries as well as he is wearing the saberhilt and the beard- and haircut which are shown in Episode III instead of wearing the others which are identical to those we see in Episode II and in the chapters included in the Clone Wars Volume One DVD.
Cool Video on a topic that's been bugging me for a while now. I think we Legends Fans can do nothing but carry the great content to other people to persuade them with those great stories. I also fell in love with the EU first and the movies second.
That's exactly what I myself am doing with my friends I see personally on college. I firdt ask them what they think of Disney SW, and if they say they don't like it at all and want something much better, I tell them about the Expanded Universe, and what specific books they need to read to satisfy their SW needs. Recently, a friend of mine was clamoring for DSW to deliver some true mature, R rated SW content for quite some time, but since DSW is very unwilling to do so since they wanna keep SW pro children focused, they'll never do R rated content (and if they do, it's gonna be bad or nonsensical DSW content). So I told my friend about Death Troopers and Maul: Lockdown, and he instantly got extremely interested in reading both books since good R rated SW stuff is what he wanted to have so badly for a long time.
@@canderousordo8271 That's cool. Note: If your EU collection needs expanding, I suggest you start getting more EU books because by 2020, Disney SW is ending the Legends licensing agreement with Del Rey, which means getting EU books is gonna be a lot harder to find since they'll stop reprinting them by 2020. They are already starting to phase out EU books in bookstores in San Antonio, USA in favor of having more Disney SW content in the book shelves instead of EU content. So take my advice and start going to Amazon and get several more EU books before it's too late.
It baffles my mind to this day that people are still believing in this nonsense. I strongly believe lucasfilm has an agenda to try to bury Legends and someday justify stop publishing EU Books & Comics. It makes no sense otherwise why they would trash their own product that they own.
Statement: It makes no sense to me either. Frank Miller’s Batman is so unorthodox to DC Comics and yet DC Comics continues to let Miller do his own thing with his own canon.
Actually I thought they were going to make the Extended Universe non canon so that Lucasfilm take the stories change a few details and sell those as "new" stories. Which is f***ing idiotic. F*** Lucasfilms.
Nothing has captured my imagination more than the Star Wars EU. My whole childhood was shaped by the ongoing adventures of the Star Wars characters I loved in the movies and to this day I am still enjoying gathering together all the little pieces I never read, watched or played. Having said that I don't know if it should return. The time has passed. Disney did us a favour (unwittingly to be sure) by dismissing the EU. It created a clean break between what came before the sale of Lucasfilm and what came after. What came after has been utter garbage and defaced the Star Wars universe. Imagine if that had been allowed to happen in the EU. You can be sure they would have screwed up the EU just as much as they screwed up their own 'canon' timeline. If they relaunched the EU or began to add to it I have no reason to believe that they would be able to recapture the magic. We would just end up with the terrible Disney Canon and a deformed EU. It is with genuine grief that I mourn the passing of my Star Wars but I'd rather remember it the way it was, untouchable now, rather than see it dragged through the mud by the agendas and politics that manifest themselves in media today. The EU will always be my Star Wars, and I'd rather it stay dead than be resurrected by a company that would only parade around its corpse for money until it decayed into what the Disney Canon has become.
Yeah, I was originally dismayed when I realized that the Hand of Thrawn Trilogy would never be made into movies. But then the realization slowly dawned, that had they been filmed, they would have simply been butchered beyond recognition.
I’m just done listening to Disney, I’m gonna assume that all Legends is cannon. There’s enough content to last me a lifetime time since I’ve mostly relied on just the movies for Star Wars content in my life
I also miss the old EU. However, In serious, the term manbaby is more a gender neutral term, as it’s mostly just meant for people who complain too much about things that can be considered trivial.
You're probably not gonna see this since it's an older video on your second channel but I wanted to thank you for your “TCW doesn't fit Legends” videos, they convinced me to check out the older EU and reignited my love for reading in general
I just realized how long this video is. Time to grab my popcorn and enjoy it :D EDIT: Also, if you haven't seen any of the new canon movies, that's fine, but I strongly suggest seeing Rogue One. It's surprisingly good, feels like star wars, and actually fits in fine with the old EU, and explained by the Scoundrels Cantina.
No it doesnt agree with true canon (EU). The beginning of the rebel alliance was fleshed out in The Force Unleashed novelizations. Sorry but you completely fail fool, go back to your cave.
This is exactly the sort of video I've considered making for years now to defend the old Expanded Universe. I'm no creator though so I never got the courage or energy to do it, but I could talk for hours on end about Star Wars in both meta terms and in-universe lore. Great job with the research and finding sources. This does a wonderful job at shutting down arguments against the EU and it's nice to have it all laid out.
I don't even care what is considered canon or not, where they decide to put the goal posts are irrelevant. The old stuff however was just really well written whereas all the new stuff is just unrecognisable and a complete commercial sell out. There is nothing about the new stuff that even remotely feels like, looks like or sounds like Star Wars, just a generic, colour-by-numbers adventure scifi with no indentity or soul.
Personally, I’d rather we get Lucas’ VII-IX with him as a storywriter working with the right screenwriters and directors to make it work. It would’ve been weird and may not have worked, but it would’ve felt authentic. And Disney could always move on, like they plan to do anyway, regardless. Instead, we got this mess of the ST with some things from the EU being sprinkled in and passed off as Disney’s. Awful.
It wouldn’t surprise me. It also wouldn’t surprise me if they keep saying they’re going to see it or they can’t wait or they got tickets, but never actually go.
The only explanation is that there are bots on 'both sides.' I highly doubt The Last Jedi really has a 40-something-percent audience rating. I went to see that movie on opening night in a packed theater, and the reaction was certainly not almost 50 50. Plus, apparently Rotten Tomatoes doesn't count 1 star ratings anymore?! Go through the pages, or look on social media, TH-cam, forums, etc - it just doesn't add up to 40-something-percent. I'd give The Last Jedi 20-percent AT BEST positive ratings. And the EU hate is just rediculous. DC and Marvel both have canon multiverses. So do so many other fictional franchises/media. The first 20 James Bond films aren't now non-canon. They're just in a different continuity from the Daniel Craig reboots. Why can't Star Wars have two living continuities? Why did Disney have to 'kill' one off, and relegate it to just 'legend?" I don't understand it.
Fantastic. Your passion and compassion is amazing. You sold me over when you posed the question, “Who the f00k attacks a charity?.! Especially one that tailors to dying children to give them hope?” “If you can’t say anything nice… I guess there was never A New Hope.” I don’t know why fandoms like to eat themselves but I know it’s rampant. Thank you for highlighting this in the EU as well as those 4 different medium of continuity you stated. I’m building my BD 1 Lego while listening btw.🥰
Thanks for putting these videos together. It really clears things up, making a better case of how to go forward with Star Wars in the event of a big shakeup. Personally, I would like to see everything Disney canon decanonized to make room for more Legends/EU content, and effectively reverse the damage that's been done to the franchise, but I understand it would make for unhappy campers. A move like that would exacerbate the problem of a divided fanbase, but frankly, it would be better if Lucasfilm went back to staying true to Lucas' vision and MO for the franchise, instead of just "doing their own thing". In order for that to happen, the Story Group has to go. They're not willing to listen or compromise with the fans they've alienated, let alone have a change of heart. Having a separate-but-equal situation instead of what we have now sounds like a shaky truce, but I guess it would be a start.
The vast majority of the remaining fan base considers the EU to be superior. If Disney offers both timelines equally, the EU will obliterate their new cannon in sales. I don't think Bob Iger's (Or KK's) ego (among others) would ever allow that.
That’s why the shills try to gaslight us by downplaying the EU, repeating the same shit that it was “mostly garbage” or “it was never canon”. They’re idiots
Slowly realizing theres millions of people who are Expanded Universe Legends fans.... and THE reason why there's pile of dead New Star Wars toys no ones buying.... That Jain solo styled figure seems really good. I think it's the purple lightsaber I like...
I think Star Wars should have a multiverse. Universe-1= Disney Canon (New EU) Universe-2 = Legends (Old EU) They should have a Marvel DC style multiversal crossover. I like to see what would happen if Legends Luke met Canon Luke.
Well shit, I guess I was somehow one of those people who ALSO misinterpret what George said about "there's my world which is the movies" and I'm not finishing the quote because I don't feel like it. Jesus, I guess I really am that stupid. (Then again, I'm NOT really a huge star wars fan, I'm always in favor with other franchises like ratchet and clank.)
AMAZING video! I was hopping you'd make something like this! At this point people who continue to spew the same nonsense about the EU over and over are just in denial of reality. Back when Lucasfilm decanonized the EU there was a 6-month period where my interest in Star Wars died. Darth Bane Path of Destruction revived my interest in Star Wars at the end of that 6 months in the fall of 2014. I was accused of being part of the Kelly Marie harassment by some of those people just because I'm an EU fan. I don't even have social media! I hope this great video can reach more people than my videos can!
Ironinquisitor it was assumed I was ok with the reboot with female Impact -diversity - because I’m a woman. Little did they know, I don’t agree in the direction DisCannon is going.
I felt so goddamn disrespected when Disney delegitimized all the EU canon. I spent untold dollars and years of my life collecting and immersing myself in the seemingly limitless lore, only to get a giant middle finger. 'The Last Jedi' will *never* be more canon to me than 'KotOR' or 'Jedi Academy.'
There was actually a novelization within the Expanded Universe titled "The Last Jedi." That alone says something about the (Lack of) creativity within the current franchise.
Your persistence is impressive. I appreciate how much work you put in these videos, and I feel like Legends has a lot of really interesting stories that haters choose to overlook out of stupidity or ignorance. In particular, the Clone Wars Multimedia Project seems even better than TCW, which I'm a nostalgic fan of. Despite the latter statement, I'm also a big nostalgic fan of the 2003 Clone Wars, which I think ties much better into Revenge of the Sith by comparison.
Funny that they think involving old stories would alienate people. I WAS A 5 YEAR OLD KID WHEN I DISCOVERED THE EU AND THAT DIDN'T ALIENATE ME! If anything it made me more interested in the series.
I find it funny how people say that Legends was too large or whatnot. Like isnt having lots of detailed stories a good thing, since Im a Star Wars fan Im very glad to be able to have loads interesting content to keep me entertained for years. I genuinely have no f*cking idea why Legends being too lArGe is or bLoAtEd is meant to be a bad thing. Having a timeline of great stories for lots of different story angles is perhaps the greatest thing about Legends.
This video needs more views, it’s incredibly informative and is a video that everyone should watch in order to know the truth I hope the movement becomes successful because I truly believe it’s a cause worth fighting for.
*Real Star Wars Legends (Expanded Universe):* You took everything from me. *Disney:* I don't even know who you are. *Real Star Wars Legends (Expanded Universe):* You will.
What an *outstanding* video! I've been a fan of the EU for as long as I can remember. My favorite content includes the Clone Wars micro-series, the Republic Commando game and books, the Republic Clone Wars and Dark Times comics from Dark Horse Comics, Star Wars: Battlefront II, and the Force Unleashed games. I'll never forget how shocked and heartbroken I was when I found out that the characters and stories I grew up with were no longer considered canon, and that I had to accept whatever Disney made as canon. I've seen all of these negative remarks and comments toward the EU and its fans all over the internet, especially on Twitter. But this video gave me the ammunition to continue the good fight of loving and defending the Star Wars Expanded Universe. I want to personally thank you for this video. I learned a lot.
Loved the video Fordo and I completely agree with your stance that both continuities should be allowed the exist. I may not like the Disney canon at all but I wouldn't want to take it away from those who do enjoy it. So it baffles me why so many people seem hell bent on making sure the EU is never continued. It would be a cash cow for Disney in general. Have the writers who made some of the best Star Wars novels like Timothy Zahn, James Luceno, and Matthew Stover work together to either continue where the books left off with the Sword of the Jedi trilogy or perhaps do their own thing after the Legacy comics. The Disney fans would continue to get what they like and so would the EU fans, resulting in Disney getting a metric ton of cash from both sides. I just hope we see a golden age return to Star Wars some day. Disney's never gonna sell Star Wars away unless they're at complete bankruptcy but if they ever begin to see how bad current Lucasfilms is doing, they may decide to flush out the people who don't care about Star Wars in the slightest and finally get people who are creative and willing to work with both sides of the fandom.
It took me a little while to come to this conclusion, but since Disney tore up the canon, I no longer care for what the canon is, they're all just stories anyway. As far as I'm concerned everything that happened before the films as far as the EU is concerned, is exactly what happened.
Have you even read the New Canon Books and Comics because most of them were pretty Good The EU is great too Your like those spoiled EU fans who never read them and say that their Bad Just because you didn’t like the Sequels god you Toxic fans are pathetic
I was never around during the ‘golden’ age of the eu. But seeing what Disney has done to my childhood franchise. Damn do I wish I could get my hands on some of those books
Good for you. I was very disappointed about the last three movies, both because they suck and, even worse, they made my wife lose interest in Star Wars. Shortly after getting married I showed her Star Trek, StarGate, and Babylon 5 - she *loved* all three of them. She started enjoying Star Wars and then after watching the first two movies of the sequel trilogy she just completely lost interest and told me she just couldn't enjoy the universe as much. It's really disappointing. Now when we hear The Force orchestral song she doesn't get nostalgic like I do. Considering she enjoyed all three of the other universes we watched, she'd have likely enjoyed Star Wars more if it wasn't for Disney's mistreatment of it. :/ Meh, oh well. I guess that's a petty complaint as it is. Still, I hope we have some more EU content eventually, even (especially?) if it's against Disney's wishes.
After watching the whole video and reading almost all the comments. I have to say. @dave filloni and the clone wars was one of the worst things to happen to star wars
I grew up with the cannon, with the clone wars series, but I do prefer legends do to the stories and development of characters, there's so much freedom to work with the original cannon, and I find the new cannon more straining do to the recent films we've got, which are hated a lot, but I personally like them, but I do agree with a lot of people here that the recent films are not good, but I'm surprised about what Hidalgo and Johnson were doing, I don't consider star wars a toxic franchise, but what Hidalgo and Johnson were doing, you'd think Lucas would at least try to deal with this, but he just puts a blind eye to it, and I don't understand why
If there’s anything from Disney’s Canon, it’s The Bad Batch, Rebels, Andor, Jedi: Fallen Order and Survivor, Rogue One and Dooku’s story in Tales Of The Jedi (2022). Beyond those, I enjoy a lot of Legends content to this day.
Thank you ever so much for taking the time to produce this wonderful video. This is one of if not the best defense of the Expanded Universe videos I've ever seen on TH-cam. I hope this continues to reach more and more people.
I'm also a fan of the EU along with the New Canon. They're both good in their own ways. It's kinda annoying that people prioritize 'Oh so you like EU? Then you're trash.'
As for someone who was around when the prequals where fresh in peoples minds....I'll be honest I never knew half of these book even existed growing up. My only exposure to the EU was four things. This was due to me not really into chapter books as a kid nor had many friends who talked about these storys -Force Unleash -Galaxy of Fear -Darth Bane -Splinters of the Minds Eye But mind you only in passing and never sat down to read/play them Outside that I never knew much or anything of "Who Mara Jade was" or "Who Thrawn was",So personally I'm in the "Likes both Disney and Legends" boat . The first book I even read was Spectra to The Past in Junior High. But I didn't know at the time it was a squeal story so I had to put it down,Currently reading The New Rebellion. So I have no personalty.
I'm a woman in my twenties and I consider myself a Legends fan. I can clearly see how strongly this fact has influenced me ever since I picked my first EU novel. At first, I read Polish translations, but then there was a book I couldn't get, but I wanted to read so badly that I decided to try to do it in English. Hence, the very first book that I tried to read in English was "Shadows of the Empire"; I was twelve at that time. It was such a struggle. However, reading this book definitely ignited a sparkle in me, as now I'm doing a PhD in English Linguistics.
Wow, that's awesome.
Sad to see the star wats we loved get demolished by Disney honestly nothing good came from them except politics and greed
Nintendo 64 and PC
I've seen a little theory somewhere that might explain why Disney retconned the entire EU and why they're reluctant to continue it again. Basically, Lucasfilm was generous enough to work out a deal with any new authors that promised all the authors proper ownership and royalties for any of their original stories and characters. So if Lucasfilm made a Thrawn action figure, Timothy Zhan would receive royalty payment for using his character. The theory is when Disney bought Lucasfilm, they didn't like this and cancelled the entire EU, so that when an author writes a new story Disney will gain complete control of the profits taken.
Sounds highly plausible
ofc it’s the greedy mouse 😂
The royalties theory is quite old, but it could be true. Zahn denies it, but what on Earth does THAT prove? That man has sold out to the Mouse. You can't trust him.
Disney to the authors: I'm Altering the deal. Pray I do not alter it further.
@@priestesslucy why do you need to steal my line
The Expanded Universe/Legends is the only Star Wars continuity thats legitimate in my mind.
And I treat Disney Star Wars like how Dune fans treat Brian Herberts Dune books.
Excellent analogy. You either follow the original creator's vision, even if it's not perfect. Or you follow the cash grab vision that ignores any prior vision in favor of its own.
Same
That’s perfect
Indeed.
Yes, I refuse to read or play or watch the new Disney canon.
Getting into the EU after Revenge of the Sith were great times. So much history....
yah, wether you loved or hated it, I always saw Revenge of the Sith as like a key, from ep 4 to Phantom menace was the Star Wars Silver Age, timeless classics but not the full picture, and from Phantom Menace to 2014 as the golden age, say what you want about the Prequels, but with the release of Revenge of the Sith it was like a key that connected the saga and finally unlocked the ENTIRE franchise for deeper exploration, and with the saga finished at last we got some of the best Star Wars stories because they could pull elements from any where in the saga and weren't restricted to story limitations of the time. then in 2014 began the Dark age of Star Wars, at first it was bright with a little sadness in the EU no longer considered canon, but TFA sparked interest for more movies, and Rebels was decent enough, Rouge One made us trust Disney, it was great for a few years, but then TLJ happened and it became a flaming and irepairable train wreck. after seeing this video the sins of TLJ are far worse then I realized. after Disney made 30 years worth of material thrown out, we trusted them and TLJ ruined the future of Star Wars in movies, but ruined the very Sequel trilogy they had been building, and I now realize it's worse because the old EU won't have anything new since they invested everything into the new stuff, so all around a disaster. TLJ is with out a doubt the worst thing to ever happen to Star Wars.
My first exposure to the EU was in 2003, when the Clone Wars multimedia was getting immensely popular.
@Chosen One They didn't come back. There were Sith cults that came, sure, but none of them were as powerful as Darth Bane's Order of the Sith Lords.
@Chosen One Yes. The only ones who came back were just pretenders and cultists. But they never managed to reach the height of the Rule of Two, which made sure every Sith Lord was more powerful than the last until Darth Sidious became the most powerful Sith Lord of all time. After Anakin restored balance, the Sith lost all their power over the Force and the galaxy.
@Chosen One The Sith aren't the only ones who have managed to take over or attack Coruscant. And so what if they started another war? The Sith have started eight galaxy-wide wars over history; the Great Hyperspace War, the Exar Kun War, the Jedi Civil War, the Great War, the Jedi-Sith War, the Clone Wars, the Second Galactic Civil War and the Sith-Imperial War. Starting destructive conflicts is what the Sith are known for and why they are feared. But that doesn't change the fact that Palpatine's reign was the height of the Sith's power and dominion.
Why would I admit there are multiple chosen ones? That would contradict the concept of a "chosen one". Anakin was the only chosen one, and then there is the legendary Sith'ari which fans have debated over the years whether it is Darth Bane (who perfected the Sith teachings) or Darth Sidious (who accomplished the ultimate goal of the Sith).
And Revan was not the chosen one in any way. Revan was simply an overambitious man who failed to see that he was doing more harm than good for the galaxy.
Another ridiculous thing I've heard is how Star Wars "was dead" after 2005 and that "Disney saved it." Anyone who thinks that lives under a rock. Star Wars would have kept going strong if Lucasfilm had never been sold.
Which is ironic since Star Wars product has gone down the crapper after Disney bought it.
Before disney the books games cartoons and comics were still going strong. It was great.
Ironinquisitor if anything Disney is Killing it, especially in games. Besides 2 EAfronts and mobile games, there have been no new canon games.
The toys alone werr multi-million dollar franchise before diseny killed the interest for them.
Yeah, I'm 90% sure anyone who actually believes that was either way to young to remember that at the time or had somehow never touched Star Wars before 2012.
We don’t dislike the Sequels because we’re not Star Wars fans, we dislike them because we are
And because he have brains
@@darthdragonborn1552 Amen brother
The sequels is a giant middle finger to all fans who follow Star Wars for so many years.
They destroy the whole legacy with those movies. And they are creating a new universe to fit in the sequels.
@@robertocaetano4945 It's not just that, the Sequel Trilogy is full of bad decision making, bad writing, bad acting, and bad casting choices
You hate the sequels because you are star wars fans
I hate the sequels because they killed off Thrawn and because Palpatine's final death already put a severe blow to the already fragmented empire
We are not the same
They could have fucking continued Legends as a separate continuity like how Marvel runs both Ultimate and Main Marvel comics at the same time.
No
0:00 INTRO
6:00 "The expanded universe was never canon."
17:50 "George Lucas never considered the expanded universe canon."
21:13 "George Lucas was not involved with the expanded universe."
42:10 "The Star Wars expanded universe had no continuity."
48:58 "The expanded universe was __% crap"
56:14 "Skippy the force-sensitive droid was canon within the EU"
58:54 "Legends doesn't need its own time-line, they can keep bringing legends elements into the new canon like they've been doing."
1:05:33 "Kights of the old republic is still canon and that's the only EU story that I care about"
1:07:34 "The expanded universe was too big to follow"
1:08:53 "A Star Wars reboot was necessary to maintain continuity"
1:09:58 Give us legends movement
1:10:38 "They want to overthrow Disney, de-canonize the new canon, and bring star wars back to the way it was."
1:12:13 "They're all trolls and bullies, they bullied Kelly Marie Tran!"
1:22:48 "They're all fat, white, straight, alt-right, men living in their parents' basements."
1:24:48 "They support a boycott of all Disney star wars movies and products."
1:27:53 CONCLUSION
thanks
I hate this dumb gold yellow Legends stripe over the Expanded Universe books and comics I like, because it's discriminating and humiliating and because this sigil over every non-Disney original Star Wars literary creation officially means that at least every confirmed original Star Wars EU work has exactly the same EU canonicity and the same narrative value as every original Star Wars literary piece which was formerly established as non-canon within the EU continuity and excluded from it because of contradicting previous official EU media or because of just being absurd and unrealistic tales which have never taken place in the EU timeline.
The ironic thing is, that the very same may happen to the present 'canon', according to the mere _commercial_ requirements of that situation...
I completely understand you even thou I see it now as a mark of dignity since I really dislike everything that Disney has done
It's absolute heck trying to track down non-Legends bannered copies of the books and comics. But, I'm trying...
Some. No. A lot of the old stories were never re-published under Disney. So, to have a complete (or semi complete) collection would have so many mis-matched covers and versions.
And, if possible, I'd rather shell out the money for some pre-2014 copies. I'm not talking first editions either. I just don't want that stupid Legends banner or the Disney logo anywhere on these great stories...
Too bad they're all an arm and a leg now...
But I'm trying.
I hate the legends banner
I was lucky enough to have the old thrawn novels without the banner
I like the Legends Label for me ist is the sign of the golden Star Wars age the legends
Ok Thais silly but im to Young to remember the times the Legends were Canon
At least with the EU had some consistency with its continuity. Sure, there are some things good and bad but at least it didn't make fans pissed off
Well every expanded universe has good and bad tbh and ya i agree
@@Batkenpre I know. But I am trying to make a point
PREACH!
@@Megatron_95 I know im just saying
Consistency with its continuity?? Sure. Now lie down before you hurt yourself.
Don't forget Dash Rendar's ship, the Outrider which can be spotted in the special edition of A New Hope. Which is also canon.
Legends timeline will never continue as long as Disney owns Star Wars. To continue it and give fans what we've wanted all along would be an admittance by them that they royally screwed up this franchise. And they have their collective heads so far up their own asses that they would rather keep pumping out the same crap for years to come than acknowledge that they were wrong.
Sadly, Disney shills and casual consoomers are easy to distract and sway with breadcrumbs, like The Mandalorian or TCW Season 7, which is why they won't collectively revolt....yet.
Seriously They just copy and paste what they like and try to silence the ones who actually love legends
We need more people like you trying to keep on the old EU alive.
I'm in.
Me too
Me too bro
Me as well.
we need more people who are reasonable like him. Even if you don't agree with what he says he is polite and doesn't want to convince you everything he doesn't like is shit or that people who like the new canon are idiots and the new canon is shit. We need way more people like that
The writer's guild legally requires Disney to include the phrase "BASED ON characters created by George Lucas." This phrase also appears before every superhero movie you will ever watch because the movie is only A VERSION of the original story, and can not add, subtract, or erase the story. THIS PHRASE NEVER HAD TO BE USED IN THE ENTIRE EU POST 1991 (video games included) BECAUSE IT WAS UNDENIABLY PART OF THE STORY, AUTHORIZED BY THE OWNER.George Lucas can be quoted as saying "There is no story past episode 6. Its a certain story about Anakin Skywalker and once he dies, that's the end of the story. There is no story about Luke Skywalker APART FROM THE BOOKS." "I have left explicit instructions for there to be no more features. There will definitely be no 7 8 or 9." Disney can CALL it canon, but its only BASED ON Star Wars. There's George canon, there's the EU: the ONLY continuation of the movies PERSONALLY AUTHORIZED BY GEORGE LUCAS which George kept separated from flat out NON-CANON, and there's Disney canon, which can LEGALLY only be called BASED on Star Wars, just like Tom Hollands character is BASED on Spiderman. Call it 'canon' if you want, but the only reason you call it that is to get butts in the theater.Everyone, can we stop using the term "Legends"? Its degrading, and only encourages Disney. They aren't "legends", its the EU.
Tell that to Idazmi7. He’s got the wrong ideas about Star Wars canon and Star Trek canon too.
Anti-EU fans: Palpatine cloning himself to have a comeback, that's just butch of crap!
Rise of Skywalker: Palpatine come backs through cloning!
Gee, I wonder....
As much as I hated TLJ and the death of the EU, when I first watched the trailer for IX and heard that old familiar cackle at the end when it went black...I got chills. I was so excited. But I was hoping to see THE SENATE whip out a lightsaber and actually do some real fighting, and then he just ended up shooting a bunch of lightning skyward and sucking life like a glorified dementor. I was a bit let down.
Somehow… Palpatine returned.
Both times it was bad and dumb.
@@Colon-D...No, it wasn't! Dark Empire it's a consistent and great story by itself, with good characters (not just the old ones, but the new ones too), good new elements, good storyline, etc., unlike Rise of Skywalker!
When I first saw The Rise of Skywalker, I was like "Oh so this is like Dark Empire...but a lot worse"
The Expanded Universe or Star Wars Legends will always be canon to me, awesome video by the way!
I know one comic that Disney made that was the same as it's legend conterpart just different wording which was a stupid thing to do in my opinion
You're so wrong right there buddy.
They've been copying off the EU from the beginning. The thing is, they disguise it poorly and often screw it up even with the crutch.
Jan Ors in Dark Forces vs Jyn Erso in Rogue one. Same story point, ridiculously similar characters.
Jacob Gunnell because people still complain about legends its to appease the vocal minority
@@justinkemp8648 bcs legends is badly exposed, while having good stories. So they decided to make high-exposure canon stuff based on legends, bcs they are good.
Another thing EU haters don't understand is even though there were a few contradictions in the EU almost every single one was FIXED and EXPLAINED. They didn't just leave them hanging.
That's what I hate: They explain everything and many of their explanations are unnecessary, stupid or both.
@@eliroth9978 An example of an explanation that was "dumb" please?
Statement: I recall someone calling Boba Fett being a clone as contradicting his old Backstory. I believe that was retconned to be a false narrative as part of Fett assuming a false identity.
@@KaosNova2 Yep the video brings that up.
Not to mention the vast majority of inconsistencies preTCW were small and inconsequential.
Sequel shills will call the EU crap bu tthe sequal writers just ripp off some good bits from the EU and made it alot shittier in the Sequal
The Emperor coming back- The EU did it better
Han Solos son turning to the dark side - The EU did it better
The Extended Civil War between The New Republic and the Imperial Remnants- The EU did it better
Mungasaurus Bravo no cap. The EU did all their aspects better.
100%. There is only one thing that Canon has over the EU: Newer and better tv shows and movies in terms of production quality. But in terms of actually writing, the EU, having over 30 years of history and truly talented writers, dominates.
Yes! Exactly!
@@dr.boring7022 eh the shows aren’t that good, rebels only good bits were those with maul and thrawn, in maul’s case the best scene he had was the final duel with obi wan which is DIRECTLY inspired by a comic from the EU that depicted the exact same scenario (but better), and as for thrawn well he was decent but still a massive downgrade from what he was in the EU (though they did choose a great voice actor for him, i’m gonna give them that).
@@marcialhd He was talking about mandalorian and the other live action shows
Where we're these "continuity advisors" when these sequels were made? Everyone contradicted the OT, and even themselves, sometimes within a matter of minutes.
59:50 Kanan is also very heavily inspired by Rahm Kota.
Mostly Jax Pavan, with some Kyle Katarn, Rahm Kota, and that character from the comics he mentioned, Dass Jennir.
Ironic. The people who keep scapegoating on the clones of Palpatine now have The Last Jedi, which is sort of their version of Dark Empire.
Well palpatine is coming back in episode 9.
Except Dark Empire is actually good
@Lord Kuuga Not an EU hater, but I do like the new canon (Including The Last Jedi, or should I say, especially The Last Jedi) and I can tell you that personally I'm against bringing Palpatine back. In the end though, it all depends on how well executed it will be.
michal k. Just because you like the current canon doesn’t automatically mean you hate Legends :P
That90sGuy Media it really is!
Timestamps
00:06:00 - The Expanded Universe was never canon
00:17:50 - George Lucas never considered the Expanded Universe canon
00:21:14 - George Lucas was not involved with the Expanded Universe
00:42:10 - The Star Wars Expanded Universe had no continuity
00:48:58 - The Expanded Universe was ___% crap
00:56:12 - Skippy the Force Sensitive Droid was canon within the EU
00:58:53 - Legends doesn't need its own timeline, they can keep bringing Legends elements into the new canon like they've been doing
01:05:33 - Knights of the Old Republic is still canon and that's the only EU story that I care about
01:07:34 - The Expanded Universe was too big to follow
01:08:53 - A Star Wars reboot was necessary to maintain continuity
01:09:59 - Give Us Legends Movement
01:10:35 - They want to overthrow Disney, de-canonize the new canon, and bring Star Wars back to the way it was
01:12:12 - They're all trolls and bullies, they bullied Kelly Marie Tran!
01:22:47 - They're all fat, white, straight, alt-right, men living in their parents' basements
01:24:48 - They support a boycott of all Disney Star Wars movies and products
01:27:52 - Conclusion
wrong you sjw marxist facist propegandist shill
@@mscapeh4451 Are you OK?
Not to mention that Battlefront 2 (2005) was the top played game on the X-Box Live System before it was shut down IIRC.
If you pay close attention, you can see that from 2003 Clone Wars Grievous' earlier to later appearances, his body gains a more off white color palette and his cape's interior turns red.
The issue is Kathleen Kennedy and the sale of Lucasfilm to Disney. Period.
In a recent interview with Kathleen Kennedy about producing an upcoming Star Wars series titled The Acolyte, Kennedy herself states she does not like Star Wars, she does not want to produce Star Wars, she wants to reimagine the whole concept of Star Wars, removing all the elements created by George Lucas, things such as The Force, The Jedi and The Sith, etc. So, basically all the things that make Star Wars what it is, she wants to do away with and produce something entirely different, destroying the whole mythology.
The question is, why bother? why not just go off on your own, create your own production company, produce your own stuff....? Oh that's right, because Star Wars is a cash cow that they are bleeding dry.....I forgot.
All of this division, fan backlash and bombs at the box office, low ratings etc. and disdain for Disney Star Wars exists because the same people who preach about diversity and inclusion do nothing but practice hypocrisy in doing the exact opposite, they create division, make things exclusive, segregate and alienate the actual fans. They are the ones engaging in the things they rail against because Kathleen Kennedy and her team admit they do not like Star Wars and have an active stated goal of intentionally destroying the concept and vision of the Star Wars franchise as created by George Lucas.
They clearly have political and ideological motivations behind what they do, that ultimately affect the influence of Star Wars on our society and culture as a modern day mythology. The good values and important life lessons that this mythology can teach us do not want to be imparted upon younger generations by the powers that be, lest those younger generations take those lessons learned and use them in rebellion against those in power and destroy their brainwashing.
It is glaringly obvious as to who is in the wrong with all of this. They do what they do intentionally.
I wish I was a Star Wars fan during the EU’s golden days.
It was great.. I would’ve cherished those times more if only I knew what was to come.
i wish they were still making them
I was. And it was...beautiful.
My first entry into the Expanded Universe back in the day was the Dark Empire comics. I've never been into the Star Wars novels (until the Rogue Squadron books, that is) as I've always believed that the impressive visuals from planets, creative alien species and cool advanced technology are probably a third of what makes the Star Wars franchise so awesome and captivating. Comics capture that aspect way better than the books ever could.
I was and it was great I’ve gotten way more into the EU recently though after the sequels and Disney’s purchase of the franchise. It reminds me of the good old days and how good Star Wars used to be
I love legends
Same.
Star Wars Expanded Universe FTW!
Same
Don't use The denial Name. Expanded Universe for ever ;)
Legends never die
Starkiller will always be canon to me
I honestly can’t stand people who hate Legends asking us “Why do you love the EU if theres stuff like clones of Palpatine and force sensitive droids?” They need to understand that most of us love the expanded universe for the stuff that made it great like Thrawn and Darth Bane. That’s like if I asked a person who loves the Disney Canon, “Why do you love the new expanded universe if you theres heli-sabers and Ben Swolo?”
"“Why do you love the EU if theres stuff like clones of Palpatine and force sensitive droids?” "
To be quite honest cloning and using your force essence to get there doesn't sound far off and sensitive force droids are from infinity anyway.
funny thing is, Disney has their own force sensitive droids, and walking, talking mountains... things they shit on the EU for existing...
I mean, Shards were canon, and kind of force-sensitive droids? I guess there's also 4-LOM and some other random stuff that's not really verifiable, but people really like to bring up the never canon Skippy for whatever reason.
QWERTY UIOP lol Thrawn came from Legends.
QWERTY UIOP Rise of Skywalker is also bringing back Palpatine, the very thing people whined about in Dark Empire. lol
Disney: yeah the expanded universe ain't cannot but why wouldn't you buy our expanded universe that is at the end of the day the same thing but with slight changes here and there? ( what wouldn't you do for money amirite? )
Best. Video. Essay. Ever! At least from what I've seen that centered on the Star Wars EU and the EU movement. You know that Matt Wilkins has filled playlists of this stuff but this something else. You've even got most if not all of your sources listed in the descriptions or in-video! It could use some work on recording script but I can understand if you were pressed for time. Every single one of your arguments are artistically and masterfully detailed and explained to counter those made by the EU haters. I will be referencing your video in the future.
Seeing those Star Wars Insider images makes me want to look through the collection of Star Wars magazines I've inherited. Most of them aren't Insider though so I want to find those that I missed out on. Some of those that you showed looked interesting.
When talking about comic books and how successful they were, I would suggest digging up Dark Horse's sales at the time when those volumes/issues were released to get a sense on how popular and how well-received they were. However, I do understand that this would be a daunting task as I personally have no way of finding this out. I'm simply suggesting this as an option.
54:03 Is that a Jaster Mereel Boba Fett in-package that I see? And is that Captain Rex beside it? Sweet. The super-sized Prince Xizor is pretty neat. A pretty decent collection of books and graphic novels too.
1:05:03 Where did you get that fan depiction of cartoon Mara Jade? When I first saw that I was startled by how close it is to the Rebels animation.
Seeing you cover the Kelly Marie Tran scandal was really invigorating. While I did follow the news of the accusations from the Expanded Universe articles and blogs, I hadn't followed the Twin Suns Foundation at the time and so I wasn't aware of the statements they made. Still, I love the passion you brought when reading the press releases and the following tweets.
1:25:44 I remember those name-callings on fan sites that I used to follow such as Furious Fanboys. It really decreased my respect for the websites.
Speaking of incoming Legends reprints, I can't wait for the Old Republic Epic Collection to be released in the spring of next year! I've bought the previous two volumes on Amazon and I can't wait to have the full set plus with additional comic series that tie-in to the original series and to the games. I was so enamored when I read the Epic Collection that I ordered the old volumes that finished the story soon after. So now I'm going to get multiple copies of one my favorite old EU graphic novels. It had been a long time since I read those volumes and I did skip a few storylines but it stayed in my mind. I'll definitely be on the lookout for the pre-orders for the CW General Kenobi figure.
Matt Wilkins is great. He explained the canon hierarchy years ago.
It would seem fordo's powers have doubled since the last time we met
Thank you. You made me love Lucas again. For the longest time I thought that he was retconning Star Wars with Filoni. It is so nice to hear that he had a positive view of the EU.
Technically he did with clone wars tv show an what they did to Mandalorians which is very opposite to the books
I find it very amusing that disney says that legends bad but star wsrs 9 is just a bad rip off of the dark empire comics
Lol okay and
And the Jedi Prince series.
This may very well be one of the most important videos I've ever seen uploaded. So many of these points have circulated throughout the community before, but to have them all laid out in one magnificent video... it's the best thing I could have possibly wished for! You masterfully tackled so many of these lies that are so often believed, even by star wars fans.
Unfortunately, thanks to the carelessness of internet entertainment "journalism" and online twitter types, the truth doesn't really seem to matter much. It is just believed, because that's what everyone else thinks. Which very much saddens me.
As a bit of a personal anecdote, when you were talking about your experience growing up with eu content everywhere, that really resonated with me as well. I also had similar experiences growing up with Star Wars. The dark horse star wars comics in particular, like Republic, or the amazing Lucasarts games like kotor and bounty hunter. (also quick shoutout to the young Boba Fett books!) These were all a huge part of a universe that I was excited to dive deep into! Never did I once consider it any less valid than the films, or even too daunting to undertake. Because the very idea of there being so much more of this thing I loved made it wonderfully exciting to explore.
I wanted to learn more about the star wars universe. And just because I hadn't read "X book" or "Y comic" didn't make any part of it less enjoyable
Admittedly back then I cared a whole lot less about the notion of 'canon'. It was all a part of the same universe so why would I care...? But even when I was little I understood the "infinities" thing. How is it that those who write for a living don't get that??
Your longform videos are always fantastic and I was thoroughly engaged from start to finish. I can only imagine how long this must have taken to put together! Everything is researched and cited properly, making it very easy to follow along with each point. Hopefully this is eye opening to those who may have not heard anything like this before.
I especially appreciated the common myths of "George didn't care about the eu" and "the eu was X percent garbage" being tackled here, as they amazingly perpetuate heavily throughout the fandom. It was just a delight to behold as you put everything together, plain as day to understand.
All and all, well done good sir. Well done. I do hope you intend to make more in-depth videos like this in the future, your words speak volumes with how you tackle each issue. And I rather enjoyed every and every moment of it.
May the force be with you, always.
You can really tell the quality of news we receive when you look at how it mainstream news outlet discusses a topic you are familiar with. For example, my interests lie with the history of ocean liners, which naturally includes the RMS _Titanic._ Like with _Star Wars,_ the ship's story and legacy have been warped into something unrecognizable from the historical events due to the rampant clickbait and yellow journalism.
As a Star Wars fan who’s kinda in the outer rim when it comes to these kind of “fan politics” I hadn’t even realized any of this stuff was going on. Im just gonna hang out back here with a cup of tea and my xwing comic books
The give us legends movement/legend fans in general has had many problems throughout the years due to several misconceptions caused by lack of research. The worst case scenario in my opnion was when fans were given death threats and being labled as "spoiler jihadist" during the time before episode 7 release.
I think it can be implied from this video that the same people who did that were the same who claimed credit for the Kelly Marie Tran scandal.
It could be a possbility but i am a bit unsure about it since the ones who were responsible for the slandering the legends movement by convincing several socials medias that the Alliance to perserve the expanded universe was a Star Wars jihadist group with the goals of spoiling episode 7 has been quiet up to my knowledge. The whole thing was mostly done by a former memeber that was extremely angry and petty about being kicked out of the group and started the whole thing for revenge, once he acomplished it he and his associates kinda went quiet. I think the one's responsible for the Kelly Tran scandal was probably the same people thqt claimed were responsible for the bad ratings on rotten tomato.
@@ohitsblockbusterguy7466 I mean, I didn't see VII until 2 weeks after premiere, and I hadn't gotten a single spoiler. I think some blew the whole 'spoiler jihad' out of proportion.
@@TheDylandProductions The thing is at the time it had been ten years since the last Star Wars movie released in theaters and the hype was at an all time high. As the months drew closer many fans unfortunately got paranoid at the thought of spoilers and it didn't help that many Star Wars fan groups did as a precaution, without even bothering to ask for the groups side of the story spreaded awareness to the rumor to help prevent their own group members from being spoiled. The overreacting fear of spoilers and the power of social media can be a deadly combination.
@@ohitsblockbusterguy7466 @Grand Admiral Thrawn The Kelly Marie Tran scandal was just hollywood and the entertainment industry framing fans for Kelly's evasion of social media, which she says was due to the treatment of women like her in hollywood. Please do keep in mind she doesn't even mention the fans, but the shills know better. They even did the same to Ahmed Best.
I’m just getting into the EU now. I’m reviewing the books and comics as I go along, I’d appreciate it if anybody took the time to stop by.
I only got into the Star Wars Fandom 2 years ago, and I want the REAL Star Wars Expanded Universe, NOT the Disney 'canon' counterfeit!
Ironically the fact that they were lying about it ever being canon is just like the propaganda sidious spred about the Jedi. I wonder if they're aware
Yeah, you are right. It's comparable to Imperial propaganda about the Jedi and the Empire's attempts to erase Jedi history.
I can't believe Hidalgo is acting that way. All those years he massaged the continuity errors the best he could.
GL mandated that comics, novels and even game storylines didn't contractict the movies or each other.
This is fucking rude and wrong .
I remember sometime after Lucasfilm announced the decolonization of of the EU, people were actually happy, saying that the new Disney canon will be far superior.
Red lol boy were they wrong.
It was the hope. Personally, if it was Lucas’ outline or if what we got was actually good, it wouldn’t bother me.
C’est la vie.
lol red letter media's strawman video making fun of the Vader suit. because that's a lot less ridiculous then Leia poppings
New it would probably be bull from day one.
Excellent video. It pains me that so many misconceptions about Legends have surfaced. No doubt this is a result of ignorance/ LucasFilm wanting to slander this. I suspect because their own canon is a load of crap. Outside of a few decent elements. BloodLine and Thrawn. I will be upfront; a lot of my experience with the old EU came from KOTOR.
KOTOR got me into the EU and I absolutely adore that side of the SWs universe. I am also like you in that I read the clone wars DH comics and even enjoyed the micro series. And appreciated how ROTS tied back into those stories. Again, proving how GL valued Legends. As for TCW, I absolutely agree with you that it does not fit into Legends.
That said, I still enjoy the show as a different, alternative take on The Clone Wars. And I'd be fine accepting it in Disney canon or its own thing. And as for my least favorite elements of Legends, Cloak of deception I could not stand. I love James Luceno, but that book was super dry to me.
Yeah, TCW dœsn’t fit at all. But now we have to convince Wookieepedia and other semi‐official maintainers of Legends continuity to give it the boot.
Kotor is still fan fic and doesn't align with George's vision.
@@anthonygarcia8749 how is KOTOR fanfic when it was made at LucasArts (with Bioware) and authorized by the big boss? And how does it "not align with George's vision"? If anything, Disney's sequel trilogy doesnt align with George's vision.
Tadd you knocked one out of the park and the atmosphere on this one and as such definitely earned a like from me. This vid definitely needs to be shared in as many places as possible on as many platforms as possible. In addition, this is one of a few diamonds in the YT ocean that needs a couple million views.
May the force be with you and have a pleasant day.
I don't know... right now Legends is unsullied by Disney. If they continue it, we now allow them to inject their low-quality and forced content into our beloved universe.
I find it quite funny when people say that legends is too large or whatnot. Like isnt lots of stories and details a good thing, like because I love Star Wars Im happy theres content there to keep me entertained for years. Seriously how is that a bad thing????
George Lucas selling to Disney and putting Kathleen Kennedy in charge of Lucasfilm was probably the worse thing to ever happen for geek culture.
Well, we're not alone there, sadly. Look at Star Trek. Look at Doctor Who. Look at DC and Marvel...
I always imagine him signing it away but with a gun to his head 😔
To this day I'm baffled that they didn't put Filoni at the helm
@@MrWepx-hy6sn nahh I’m good on that
@@MrWepx-hy6sn Filoni is not any better than Kennedy. He's a manchild who rewrote the nigh-perfect Multimedia Project to add his own OCs and make them the protagonists of the saga.
Disney has given him much more power than George did, and look what we got: Rebels, a kid show which emasculated the Empire, Vader, Palpatine and Thrawn; Book of Boba Fett, which ruined Boba; Obi-Wan, which ruined Vader and Kenobi even more; and Ashoka, the culmination of all of Filoni's Mary Sue OCs fucking the canon over.
30 years of great stories when Star Wars sold. Kept SW alive through the 90s when there was nothing until the prequels and ONE storyline without multi verse.
I'm so tired to see Disney fanboy shit all over the old EU, thank you for making this video. The EU needs some respect! It's the only thing that kept the franchise alive during years of nothing.
Randaches especially when Disney keeps ripping off ideas from the EU. Thrawn, Force 'holograms', 'purifying' a Lightsaber Crystal, crossguard lightsabers, a blind Jedi helping found the Rebel Allaince (Rahm Kota in the EU). And now apparently Palpatine coming back from the dead.
@Chosen One Fine by me, just decanonize Disney's "canon" and I'll call it a deal.
A revan the true canon
By "keeping it alive" you mean "pumping out trash". The EU was the first to ruin the canon, followed by the prequels. Star Wars is disfigured by all these bullshit "canons". Just because Disney made a comparably shitty one, that doesn't suddenly validate the garbage that came before.
@@revlarmilion9574 a yes, hello OT fanboy. Shut the fuck up. It's because of people like you that George sold the franchise to Disney. You don't know shit about the EU. Get lost.
Disclaimer: I have not yet finished the video, but I couldn't hold it in anymore.
Thank you for this video. Thank you for all your videos. Thank you for this channel and Manda-LORE. Thank you for what you do. The expanded universe is Star Wars. Always has been, and just because they say otherwise... It doesn't change a damned thing. The evidence is there. The proof is there. Legends never die, and we must all remember and spread the message of what it was. We cannot let Disney Wars run unopposed. I don't believe we will ever get new EU content, but it doesn't mean we have to let its name be tarnished without defense.
Couldn't agree more! :D
@@pml-starwars9043 Hey, thanks! I do appreciate it.
I don’t agree
@@bullrun2772 Ok...
@@ShaiAmos lol and what I have an opinion so don’t say my opinion is wrong
I don't really care about what's "canon" and what's "non-canon." No label is going to take away something that's already been published and experienced by fans. But it gets a little tiring to hear people consistently saying that EU was somehow was "never canon" because George Lucas made comments saying he didn't like (some of) it or that he didn't consider it a part of his work. George Lucas said HE didn't consider it canon. NOT that it was never canon. The official LucasFilm position pre-2014 was ALWAYS that the EU and the movies were designed to be a part of one single continuity. All of this is well-documented. LucasFilm - under George Lucas' leadership and with his seal of approval - actually addressed his own comments several times and said that he was being taken out of context. The company said what Lucas was doing was reserving the right to do whatever he wanted with Star Wars. That when he was writing new material, he was never going to be beholden to other people's writing and that he didn't have to consider EU material when handling the internal consistency of HIS works. But the company position UNDER GEORGE LUCAS was always that EU material was canon until he or they decided that it wasn't. And not once did he ever officially deny that. Not even when they were essentially correcting his own statements.
Only reason I openly state that "Disney Star Wars will never be Canon to me" is to exclusively piss off Pixie Dusters. I do not lose sleep over the existence of Disney Trilogy even tho I am legitimately pissed at how they handled Fynn just to pander to China. But what can you expect from Soulless Business Suits? I'll just enjoy Death Troopers while the people that read my statements seethe with rage unable to live with the fact opposing opinions exist in the same world as they do.
Honestly if they just continued old EU as "Legends" (another universe like Marvel or DC ?) almost no one would be mad or at least not as much but throwing 40 years of storyline away was just a trash move.
This figure of Obi-Wan wearing clone armour and brown tunic like he should do in the Star Wars: Clone Wars microseries chapters which are included in the Volume One DVD is actually a pretty bad and inaccurate replica, because in this not-EU loyal figure Obi-Wan is wearing a black clone body undersuit instead of wearing a dark brown one like that of the microseries as well as he is wearing the saberhilt and the beard- and haircut which are shown in Episode III instead of wearing the others which are identical to those we see in Episode II and in the chapters included in the Clone Wars Volume One DVD.
Now, Filoni is screwing up Thrawn in the Ahsoka series.
Cool Video on a topic that's been bugging me for a while now. I think we Legends Fans can do nothing but carry the great content to other people to persuade them with those great stories. I also fell in love with the EU first and the movies second.
@Revan Will definitely give it a look
That's exactly what I myself am doing with my friends I see personally on college. I firdt ask them what they think of Disney SW, and if they say they don't like it at all and want something much better, I tell them about the Expanded Universe, and what specific books they need to read to satisfy their SW needs.
Recently, a friend of mine was clamoring for DSW to deliver some true mature, R rated SW content for quite some time, but since DSW is very unwilling to do so since they wanna keep SW pro children focused, they'll never do R rated content (and if they do, it's gonna be bad or nonsensical DSW content). So I told my friend about Death Troopers and Maul: Lockdown, and he instantly got extremely interested in reading both books since good R rated SW stuff is what he wanted to have so badly for a long time.
@@generalcjg Same here. Ich know many casual SW Fans and always recommend/lend my books and Games to them....
@@canderousordo8271 That's cool.
Note: If your EU collection needs expanding, I suggest you start getting more EU books because by 2020, Disney SW is ending the Legends licensing agreement with Del Rey, which means getting EU books is gonna be a lot harder to find since they'll stop reprinting them by 2020. They are already starting to phase out EU books in bookstores in San Antonio, USA in favor of having more Disney SW content in the book shelves instead of EU content. So take my advice and start going to Amazon and get several more EU books before it's too late.
@@generalcjg Hold on, they are going to stop printing them?
It baffles my mind to this day that people are still believing in this nonsense. I strongly believe lucasfilm has an agenda to try to bury Legends and someday justify stop publishing EU Books & Comics. It makes no sense otherwise why they would trash their own product that they own.
Statement: It makes no sense to me either. Frank Miller’s Batman is so unorthodox to DC Comics and yet DC Comics continues to let Miller do his own thing with his own canon.
Actually I thought they were going to make the Extended Universe non canon so that Lucasfilm take the stories change a few details and sell those as "new" stories.
Which is f***ing idiotic.
F*** Lucasfilms.
Doesn't help the fact that some of this used to be used by star trek fanboys against these debunks, like luke never got married quote.
Or maybe: They just wanted more room for stories?!?
Schock Trooper No. They wanted a clean slate so they could cherrypick from the EU.
Nothing has captured my imagination more than the Star Wars EU. My whole childhood was shaped by the ongoing adventures of the Star Wars characters I loved in the movies and to this day I am still enjoying gathering together all the little pieces I never read, watched or played. Having said that I don't know if it should return. The time has passed. Disney did us a favour (unwittingly to be sure) by dismissing the EU. It created a clean break between what came before the sale of Lucasfilm and what came after. What came after has been utter garbage and defaced the Star Wars universe. Imagine if that had been allowed to happen in the EU. You can be sure they would have screwed up the EU just as much as they screwed up their own 'canon' timeline. If they relaunched the EU or began to add to it I have no reason to believe that they would be able to recapture the magic. We would just end up with the terrible Disney Canon and a deformed EU. It is with genuine grief that I mourn the passing of my Star Wars but I'd rather remember it the way it was, untouchable now, rather than see it dragged through the mud by the agendas and politics that manifest themselves in media today. The EU will always be my Star Wars, and I'd rather it stay dead than be resurrected by a company that would only parade around its corpse for money until it decayed into what the Disney Canon has become.
Yeah, I was originally dismayed when I realized that the Hand of Thrawn Trilogy would never be made into movies. But then the realization slowly dawned, that had they been filmed, they would have simply been butchered beyond recognition.
I’m just done listening to Disney, I’m gonna assume that all Legends is cannon. There’s enough content to last me a lifetime time since I’ve mostly relied on just the movies for Star Wars content in my life
All Legends is indeed canon, no matter what Disney or the shills say
Good video and we needed things clear up with the EU misconceptions
Curious, how can I be a manbaby...if I'm female. I miss the old EU.
I also miss the old EU. However, In serious, the term manbaby is more a gender neutral term, as it’s mostly just meant for people who complain too much about things that can be considered trivial.
You're probably not gonna see this since it's an older video on your second channel but I wanted to thank you for your “TCW doesn't fit Legends” videos, they convinced me to check out the older EU and reignited my love for reading in general
I just realized how long this video is.
Time to grab my popcorn and enjoy it :D
EDIT: Also, if you haven't seen any of the new canon movies, that's fine, but I strongly suggest seeing Rogue One. It's surprisingly good, feels like star wars, and actually fits in fine with the old EU, and explained by the Scoundrels Cantina.
I fall between "the fandom menace" and legends never die
Saw RO. Hated it. Saw the sequel films. Loved em. Saw Solo. It's OK.
If you like RO, that's fine. It's your opinion.
Eh, I can't like RO. It's garbage that doesn't stink, but garbage nonetheless.
No it doesnt agree with true canon (EU). The beginning of the rebel alliance was fleshed out in The Force Unleashed novelizations. Sorry but you completely fail fool, go back to your cave.
It doesnt fit with the EU because Star wars Battlefront 2 already explained how Vader knew Leia had the plans.
This is exactly the sort of video I've considered making for years now to defend the old Expanded Universe. I'm no creator though so I never got the courage or energy to do it, but I could talk for hours on end about Star Wars in both meta terms and in-universe lore. Great job with the research and finding sources. This does a wonderful job at shutting down arguments against the EU and it's nice to have it all laid out.
I sort of did a video like this too. it's even longer than this one lol. Trust me it takes a lot of energy to do stuff like this.😰😰😰
I don't even care what is considered canon or not, where they decide to put the goal posts are irrelevant. The old stuff however was just really well written whereas all the new stuff is just unrecognisable and a complete commercial sell out. There is nothing about the new stuff that even remotely feels like, looks like or sounds like Star Wars, just a generic, colour-by-numbers adventure scifi with no indentity or soul.
bro litteraly attack of the clones was created for merchandise
And as Ahsoka fan service, of course.
Personally, I’d rather we get Lucas’ VII-IX with him as a storywriter working with the right screenwriters and directors to make it work. It would’ve been weird and may not have worked, but it would’ve felt authentic. And Disney could always move on, like they plan to do anyway, regardless. Instead, we got this mess of the ST with some things from the EU being sprinkled in and passed off as Disney’s. Awful.
But what are crazy Theory what if those trolls on Facebook and Twitter are actually employees of lucasfilm it would make sense if they were.
I've actually never thought about that before!
Statement : I am willing to belive that the meatbags running Lucasfilm have meatbag fans.
That is a very distinct possibility.
It wouldn’t surprise me. It also wouldn’t surprise me if they keep saying they’re going to see it or they can’t wait or they got tickets, but never actually go.
The only explanation is that there are bots on 'both sides.' I highly doubt The Last Jedi really has a 40-something-percent audience rating.
I went to see that movie on opening night in a packed theater, and the reaction was certainly not almost 50 50. Plus, apparently Rotten Tomatoes doesn't count 1 star ratings anymore?!
Go through the pages, or look on social media, TH-cam, forums, etc - it just doesn't add up to 40-something-percent.
I'd give The Last Jedi 20-percent AT BEST positive ratings. And the EU hate is just rediculous.
DC and Marvel both have canon multiverses. So do so many other fictional franchises/media. The first 20 James Bond films aren't now non-canon. They're just in a different continuity from the Daniel Craig reboots.
Why can't Star Wars have two living continuities? Why did Disney have to 'kill' one off, and relegate it to just 'legend?" I don't understand it.
Fantastic. Your passion and compassion is amazing. You sold me over when you posed the question, “Who the f00k attacks a charity?.! Especially one that tailors to dying children to give them hope?”
“If you can’t say anything nice… I guess there was never A New Hope.” I don’t know why fandoms like to eat themselves but I know it’s rampant. Thank you for highlighting this in the EU as well as those 4 different medium of continuity you stated. I’m building my BD 1 Lego while listening btw.🥰
I still return to this video every so often.
@@saberiandream316 indeed
Thanks for putting these videos together. It really clears things up, making a better case of how to go forward with Star Wars in the event of a big shakeup.
Personally, I would like to see everything Disney canon decanonized to make room for more Legends/EU content, and effectively reverse the damage that's been done to the franchise, but I understand it would make for unhappy campers. A move like that would exacerbate the problem of a divided fanbase, but frankly, it would be better if Lucasfilm went back to staying true to Lucas' vision and MO for the franchise, instead of just "doing their own thing". In order for that to happen, the Story Group has to go. They're not willing to listen or compromise with the fans they've alienated, let alone have a change of heart. Having a separate-but-equal situation instead of what we have now sounds like a shaky truce, but I guess it would be a start.
I hate this disney fans who insults legends fans just because they don't like their disney version of star wars
I return the favor by telling them how mediocre and retarded their lore is
I remember George said sequel trilogy films would take 10 years to finish . It must have more multimedia projects if Disney didn't wipe EU out.
The vast majority of the remaining fan base considers the EU to be superior. If Disney offers both timelines equally, the EU will obliterate their new cannon in sales. I don't think Bob Iger's (Or KK's) ego (among others) would ever allow that.
That’s why the shills try to gaslight us by downplaying the EU, repeating the same shit that it was “mostly garbage” or “it was never canon”.
They’re idiots
Slowly realizing theres millions of people who are Expanded Universe Legends fans.... and THE reason why there's pile of dead New Star Wars toys no ones buying.... That Jain solo styled figure seems really good. I think it's the purple lightsaber I like...
I think Star Wars should have a multiverse.
Universe-1= Disney Canon (New EU)
Universe-2 = Legends (Old EU)
They should have a Marvel DC style multiversal crossover.
I like to see what would happen if Legends Luke met Canon Luke.
Mod Maker cool!
But not the Transformers multiverse style god it's style is confusing
Kreia would without a doubt hate the new universe, especially rey.
Legends Luke would be horrified by Canon Luke
If Legends gets revived in its full glory, it will outshine the NuCanon and trigger the current agenda-biased dictators of Disney Star Wars...
One of the best star wars expanded universe videos on TH-cam! I was having trouble finding it again!
We will always have Tales of the Jedi, despite how bad disney fucks this whole thing up. Old Republic era is so magical.
Now Dave Filoni is stealing that title and exact logo and his making a clone wars spin-off anthology series lmao.
Well shit, I guess I was somehow one of those people who ALSO misinterpret what George said about "there's my world which is the movies" and I'm not finishing the quote because I don't feel like it.
Jesus, I guess I really am that stupid. (Then again, I'm NOT really a huge star wars fan, I'm always in favor with other franchises like ratchet and clank.)
AMAZING video! I was hopping you'd make something like this! At this point people who continue to spew the same nonsense about the EU over and over are just in denial of reality. Back when Lucasfilm decanonized the EU there was a 6-month period where my interest in Star Wars died. Darth Bane Path of Destruction revived my interest in Star Wars at the end of that 6 months in the fall of 2014. I was accused of being part of the Kelly Marie harassment by some of those people just because I'm an EU fan. I don't even have social media! I hope this great video can reach more people than my videos can!
Ironinquisitor it was assumed I was ok with the reboot with female
Impact -diversity - because I’m a woman.
Little did they know, I don’t agree in the direction DisCannon is going.
@@OGStarwars we dont serve your kind here.
Scrake what are you taking about?
If you don’t get it (from the quote you’re giving me) - I’m a huge George EU fan
@@OGStarwars misunderstanding, thought i found another EU hater
Scrake it’s ok.
I support George’s EU and era of Starwars
I felt so goddamn disrespected when Disney delegitimized all the EU canon. I spent untold dollars and years of my life collecting and immersing myself in the seemingly limitless lore, only to get a giant middle finger. 'The Last Jedi' will *never* be more canon to me than 'KotOR' or 'Jedi Academy.'
Hold onto that material. It will be worth $$$ in the future, like everything else that gets old/hard to find.
There was actually a novelization within the Expanded Universe titled "The Last Jedi." That alone says something about the (Lack of) creativity within the current franchise.
this is quite possibly one of my favorite videos on this website
Your persistence is impressive. I appreciate how much work you put in these videos, and I feel like Legends has a lot of really interesting stories that haters choose to overlook out of stupidity or ignorance. In particular, the Clone Wars Multimedia Project seems even better than TCW, which I'm a nostalgic fan of. Despite the latter statement, I'm also a big nostalgic fan of the 2003 Clone Wars, which I think ties much better into Revenge of the Sith by comparison.
Funny that they think involving old stories would alienate people. I WAS A 5 YEAR OLD KID WHEN I DISCOVERED THE EU AND THAT DIDN'T ALIENATE ME! If anything it made me more interested in the series.
I find it funny how people say that Legends was too large or whatnot. Like isnt having lots of detailed stories a good thing, since Im a Star Wars fan Im very glad to be able to have loads interesting content to keep me entertained for years. I genuinely have no f*cking idea why Legends being too lArGe is or bLoAtEd is meant to be a bad thing. Having a timeline of great stories for lots of different story angles is perhaps the greatest thing about Legends.
The only reason I still love Star Wars is Legends. The most interesting era for me is the Old Republic era
This video needs more views, it’s incredibly informative and is a video that everyone should watch in order to know the truth I hope the movement becomes successful because I truly believe it’s a cause worth fighting for.
*Real Star Wars Legends (Expanded Universe):* You took everything from me.
*Disney:* I don't even know who you are.
*Real Star Wars Legends (Expanded Universe):* You will.
Lol you call yourself real Star Wars fans 🤣🤦♂️🤣🤦♂️
@@vikkran401 okay and? You just keep repeating the same point over and over again
@@bullrun2772 How about stop acting like a petty troll and grow up.
@@bullrun2772 Says the one who continuously trolls other people into submission.
@@bionic-tale4313 lol bruh that's like several months ago
What an *outstanding* video! I've been a fan of the EU for as long as I can remember. My favorite content includes the Clone Wars micro-series, the Republic Commando game and books, the Republic Clone Wars and Dark Times comics from Dark Horse Comics, Star Wars: Battlefront II, and the Force Unleashed games.
I'll never forget how shocked and heartbroken I was when I found out that the characters and stories I grew up with were no longer considered canon, and that I had to accept whatever Disney made as canon. I've seen all of these negative remarks and comments toward the EU and its fans all over the internet, especially on Twitter. But this video gave me the ammunition to continue the good fight of loving and defending the Star Wars Expanded Universe.
I want to personally thank you for this video. I learned a lot.
I hate the Disney shills saying that the EU was totally garbage and that it was never canon.
What a load of morons
Legends *IS* canon
Thank you for this video. I have argued every one of these points over the last couple of years. Now when I do I will link this video as well.
Loved the video Fordo and I completely agree with your stance that both continuities should be allowed the exist.
I may not like the Disney canon at all but I wouldn't want to take it away from those who do enjoy it. So it baffles me why so many people seem hell bent on making sure the EU is never continued.
It would be a cash cow for Disney in general. Have the writers who made some of the best Star Wars novels like Timothy Zahn, James Luceno, and Matthew Stover work together to either continue where the books left off with the Sword of the Jedi trilogy or perhaps do their own thing after the Legacy comics.
The Disney fans would continue to get what they like and so would the EU fans, resulting in Disney getting a metric ton of cash from both sides.
I just hope we see a golden age return to Star Wars some day. Disney's never gonna sell Star Wars away unless they're at complete bankruptcy but if they ever begin to see how bad current Lucasfilms is doing, they may decide to flush out the people who don't care about Star Wars in the slightest and finally get people who are creative and willing to work with both sides of the fandom.
It took me a little while to come to this conclusion, but since Disney tore up the canon, I no longer care for what the canon is, they're all just stories anyway. As far as I'm concerned everything that happened before the films as far as the EU is concerned, is exactly what happened.
Disney doesn’t deserve this IP, they threw away 40 years worth of fleshed out material for this inferior hollow excuse for “canon”
It's deplorable and disrespectful af...
Have you even read the New Canon Books and Comics because most of them were pretty Good The EU is great too
Your like those spoiled EU fans who never read them and say that their Bad
Just because you didn’t like the Sequels god you Toxic fans are pathetic
Seriously!
I was never around during the ‘golden’ age of the eu. But seeing what Disney has done to my childhood franchise. Damn do I wish I could get my hands on some of those books
i have to go back to this video every once in a while to remind myself that sane people still exist.
Same here lol.
I'm very glad rational ones like us are still existing
Indeed.
we are a dying breed
@@alsimmonshellspawn6021 shame
Anti eu/disney cultist: "EU bringing back the emperor was ridiculous"
Rise of skywalkers : "hello there"
Lol.
Very true.
At the moment I AM boycotting new Disney Star Wars products. If Lucasfilm won't give us what we want, why should I give them what they want?
Good for you.
I was very disappointed about the last three movies, both because they suck and, even worse, they made my wife lose interest in Star Wars. Shortly after getting married I showed her Star Trek, StarGate, and Babylon 5 - she *loved* all three of them. She started enjoying Star Wars and then after watching the first two movies of the sequel trilogy she just completely lost interest and told me she just couldn't enjoy the universe as much.
It's really disappointing. Now when we hear The Force orchestral song she doesn't get nostalgic like I do. Considering she enjoyed all three of the other universes we watched, she'd have likely enjoyed Star Wars more if it wasn't for Disney's mistreatment of it. :/
Meh, oh well. I guess that's a petty complaint as it is. Still, I hope we have some more EU content eventually, even (especially?) if it's against Disney's wishes.
You see this the reason why i hate Kathleen Kennedy who ruined Star Wars
After watching the whole video and reading almost all the comments. I have to say. @dave filloni and the clone wars was one of the worst things to happen to star wars
TRUTH^
I grew up with the cannon, with the clone wars series, but I do prefer legends do to the stories and development of characters, there's so much freedom to work with the original cannon, and I find the new cannon more straining do to the recent films we've got, which are hated a lot, but I personally like them, but I do agree with a lot of people here that the recent films are not good, but I'm surprised about what Hidalgo and Johnson were doing, I don't consider star wars a toxic franchise, but what Hidalgo and Johnson were doing, you'd think Lucas would at least try to deal with this, but he just puts a blind eye to it, and I don't understand why
One thing I noticed, Marvel does not reboot repeatedly like DC, just thought I should point that out
I never thought the force unleashed or emperor resurrected story arcs fit. Aside from that I was fine with everything 😌
If there’s anything from Disney’s Canon, it’s The Bad Batch, Rebels, Andor, Jedi: Fallen Order and Survivor, Rogue One and Dooku’s story in Tales Of The Jedi (2022). Beyond those, I enjoy a lot of Legends content to this day.
Thank you ever so much for taking the time to produce this wonderful video. This is one of if not the best defense of the Expanded Universe videos I've ever seen on TH-cam. I hope this continues to reach more and more people.
Oh at 1:24:30 yes I am one of those fans that has a healthy respect for both Canon and Legends, :)
Absolutely nothing wrong with that if you ask me. Most of my friends are fans of both. We have several within Twin Suns Foundation too!
Pretty hard to have respect for "Canon" with garbage like The Last Jedi or Doctor Aphra or Resistance.
@Revan Agreed
Glad to see you here, Colby.
I only consider Legends to my head-canon, but I find it unfair to say everything from Canon is bad.
I'm also a fan of the EU along with the New Canon. They're both good in their own ways. It's kinda annoying that people prioritize 'Oh so you like EU? Then you're trash.'
As for someone who was around when the prequals where fresh in peoples minds....I'll be honest I never knew half of these book even existed growing up. My only exposure to the EU was four things. This was due to me not really into chapter books as a kid nor had many friends who talked about these storys
-Force Unleash
-Galaxy of Fear
-Darth Bane
-Splinters of the Minds Eye
But mind you only in passing and never sat down to read/play them
Outside that I never knew much or anything of "Who Mara Jade was" or "Who Thrawn was",So personally I'm in the "Likes both Disney and Legends" boat . The first book I even read was Spectra to The Past in Junior High. But I didn't know at the time it was a squeal story so I had to put it down,Currently reading The New Rebellion. So I have no personalty.