Hey Mark! Thank you for doing the experiment with the extra spring washer! I just finished doing it to my 2009 Road King and it seems to be working good for me so far. I did torque the comp bolt to 140ftlbs the first go round, but man after about 10 miles there was so much noise coming out of the chain case I wasn't sure if I should ride it back home or call and have it trailered. I rode it home as gentle as possible. I took it back apart the next morning and noticed that the teeth on the sprocket were running way out against the side of the primary chain and had it running way out on the clutch sprocket as well. I grabbed the torque wrench and checked the comp bolt, I ended up turning it 3/4 of a turn before my torque wrench clicked. That pushed the compensator in far enough to get the sprockets both lined up with the center of the rollers on the chain. I also put in a manual Twin Power tensioner and when I got it all back together I was happy that the bike is now quieter than it's been since I bought it 5 months ago. It shifts into neutral so easy and most of the 6 speed clunk is gone shifting into first. I'll update you when I get more miles on the bike. Thanks again for doing the experiment!!!
Thank you for letting me know! I wonder if the back spring washer dropped behind the center core and got pinched between the compensator and rotor, and then popped out when it was under load? People have suggested that adding an extra spring throws the alignment off, but that's not the case. The alignment is determined by the center core. I'm still running that setup on mine with no issues so far. I'd guess I have around 10,000 miles on it now with this setup.
Sir did you add one to the original, or screaming eagle compensator, you had stated that you got another 3/4 turn on the bolt, I've learned that the loose thing happens too often on the original, because the washer under the bolt is springy, and doesn't transfer the tightness to the extension enough to actually even be tight. Torque wrench readings would be false against that washer. The problem goes away with the screaming eagle unit, for lack of the "WASHER" . Anyway what's your experience on looseness after torqueing the comp bolt.
I've got about 2,000 miles on the bike now with the extra spring washer and so far it's all good. Every once in a while I do get just a little kick back noise but it's pretty rare. When I do my next service I'll pull the side cover off and give it a check over. @@randymccalla9995
My 08 fatbob had the old style & it has 140 klm on it now with pulling a chair no worries same with my 97 evo I did 120 klm not a thing wrong & now my 013 street bob has the latter style & it works great .but I service my bike every 5 thousand klm .here in Australia we ride long & hard .
There are two types of Screamin Eagle compensators. One uses a regular hex head bolt, like I used. The newer style uses an Allen head bolt and has to have the funnel to drip oil into the center area to lubricate the inner parts better.
Adding that extra spring washer is loading your cam parts unnecessarily. Don't know how many miles you have on it now, but I would pull it and take a peak. A tip to pulling rotor. Tap and thread the two holes for 1/4 20 thread. Screw bolts in use them to pull on. Easily control rotor reinstalling it. My stator was burned up. I did the threading while it was still installed on shaft, not worried about getting metal in the stator windings. What primary oil are you using?
Adding that extra spring washer or four brand new ones (which have to come from a dealer, hard to find) was necessary to my situation. The four original spring washers were worn out and causing issues when starting the bike. I eventually put a Screamin Eagle compensator in it, but this five washer spring configuration did a decent job for startups and absorbing engine pulses. Good tip on rotor removal and reinstall. I have been using Dexron III automatic transmission fluid in my primary on this bike and the one before it. No friction modifiers, less clutch plate "stiction," won't harm the stator wiring. It's very similar to the Red Line primary fluid. Thanks for commenting!
Hello Mark , thanks for sharing this video . I am experiencing difficulty in pulling my compensator , Ive seen how you did it but it seems like in my case I have to shave alot coz I could not really get it out , I am using 100 grit sand paper and have shaved about 1/64 all the way to the edges and still have to shave more. How much is tolerable to sand out ,just wanna get your idea?
Leaving enough for a good seal for the gasket. You should see scuff marks where you have sanded from the magneto cover rubbing against it. That will tell you which areas need more removed, so you don't end up removing more than necessary. I can't rule out that you may have to remove the inner primary housing.
Hey mark, what tool did you use to clearance the inner primary? And how much did you have to take off? I really dont wanna take off my inner to replace the rotor.
The only possible issue i see is the belleville washer opposite the one where you added the extra may have the potential to overflex. But thats probably not even an actual thing.
@@contact4mwy7 Maybe. It depends on some unknown factors. I'm sure someone with a degree in springology could come up with an answer. The only time the washer over flexing would actually be an issue is if it didn't plasically deform and instead decide to asplode. Itd be interesting to put on in a press and see what happened.
I think that it could be possible that the springs are nearly, completely flat against each other when the bolt is tightened down,and the crankshaft pulses, cause them to contact,their entire surface area, therefore the pulses sould be much less, with an extra spring.
Hi Mark I just started watching your videos 👍👍. I like the idea of trying to improve something but the compensator springs are designed to work as a set equally distributing the force . By installing a second medium spring it doubles the force to bend that spring and causing the remaining springs to distribute the force and bend further cause the 2 medium will bend last. You may see premature wear on the single spring but how soon your guess is as good as mine. Keep on with the videos great job.
Thank you for the comment, Mark. Yes, I am aware of the more stress added to the rest of the spring pack, good observation. I intend on opening the primary next Spring before riding season to inspect the parts and assess how things are getting along. Crossing my fingers.
I was thinking the same thing about premature wear. Because it was designed to work as a set. That don’t mean I don’t love what you’re doing man. It’s people like you who come up with ideas that often turn out better. I’m definitely gonna be watching and keeping an eye on you you’re very clever. Keep the videos coming please I like it when people think outside the box that’s why the compensator has been changed so many times. My Panhead doesn’t even have one just straight socket course it has a dry clutch Keep doing what you’re doing people out here enjoy it later
This is John again. I also have a 2016 fat bomb all kinds of noise is coming from the primary it only has 4200 miles on it of course 103 high output motor with not even 100 hp. The dealership I bought it from said they all make that kind of noise. Now I’m finding little pieces of metal way too big to be normal on the magnet dealership is lying to me. I hope it’s just part of the starter gear later on buddy sold a Panhead by the way. Love that bike John tanner easy Rider 1991 gulf war issue 49 pan I got a good price for it though. I’m thinking about going back to no compensator straight And direct. Just like my go cart when I was a kid push to start
John, I know what you are thinking with the compensator delete, but I don't believe the clutch splines will put up with that in the long term. My 2009 with about 80,000 miles is making a rattle sound from the primary that I'm pretty sure is the clutch main shaft bearing. I haven't dug into it yet.
I've heard a few negative things about the screaming eagle compensator. About to have my stock 09 Road Glide compensator changed to the screaming eagle unit. Hopefully that will stop the slapping noise
I've heard negative comments too, mostly about their springs getting weak or the ramps wearing away from use, but it takes a lot of abuse in protecting the rest of the drive line. I'm still using a salvaged compensator with an additional medium spring washer at the very back to beef up the spring pack just a little more. Glad I made the change from the stock unit. Well worth the time and money.
Although I am not personally familiar with either of those compensators, I have heard good things about them and have received many comments recommending them. I am happy with the SE unit so far even though it came from a salvage, but my motor is only 96 cubic inches which isn't putting a lot of stress on it. I'll let you decide which one to buy. Ask around with other TH-cam makers who have put on the Dark Horse or Baker to get as much feedback as you can. Thanks for asking!
@@contact4mwy7 Yeah I will do that good idea. My bike is only stock 96 ci just looking to make it as reliable as I can. Seems so Harley parts may not be so reliable ??? Cam plate ,oil pump, compensator. Clutch basket
Yes, depending on year and model issues can pop up, and it's better to take care of them, if possible, before they happen. With my 2009 it was the factory compensator that was due to fail. Cam chain tensioners should be checked for wear even though on my motor they are tensioned by the oil pressure, not springs. Harley Davidson forums make a good read too, just Google your year, model, or part you're interested in.
Thank you for asking. No, because this is the earlier Screamin Eagle compensator that does not have the oil channels like the newer version does. Best way to tell is older version (mine) uses a hex head bolt, and newer version uses an allen head bolt.
I have a 2011 Dyna. I removed the 2011 compensator and installed a OEM 2016 Road Glide SE style compensator. Seems to run fine with it. No more kick back at startup. So I am happy.
Nice video. My only comment is on your torque technique. I always “sneak up” on a torque instead of torquing to final spec. In other words; torque all bolts to say, 15 to start, then 20, then finally 26. And, after final torque to 26, I also recommend you go back a minimum of three times to recheck the torque of each bolt. You’d be surprised how many bolts stretch and lose their torque after a few seconds. Just my .02
Hey thanks for the great video. I'm curious if you or anyone reading has taken the stock rotor and cut the spring basket off to run the oversized SE spring washers. If so, think I could do it with out having to take it to a machine shop to be milled? I bought my SE compensator 2nd hand and it didn't come with the after-market rotor. Thanks again for your time in making these videos. They help a lot.
Hi there Mark! Taking the thrust washer out and adding in another spring washer, Seems to me would make the double spring washers stronger against the outer one. They were a pair originally, and as such they were flexing the same amount. By adding another one to the inner spring, you ought to force the outer one to flex more because the inner two are so much stronger. I'm thinking that could become an issue later on? I don't know if they can break, but the outer one must be flexing more than intended.......just my thoughts, anyway.
Hello Ace! You are most likely correct in that assumption. Something has to give, right? In my inspections since, I have not seen any issues created from this configuration, and although I did try running it without the extra spring washer, I later put it back in because it felt a bit too soft and a little sloppy on startup. This is only my two cents, your results may vary. Lol.
Mark thank you for your informational videos on this issue. I just replaced my 2009 Heritage Softail compensator with the SE unit. Despite only 14,000 miles the original had failed! Your video guided me through the process, but the softail inner primary is much tighter & hence the grinding of the metal to facilitate the new stator was little more than arduous. But I prevailed:) the bike now starts & runs great, I saved over $1500 labour at the HD dealer, & I simply feel great about my bike, hopefully this is not a temporary sensation:) Luv your videos, keep them coming your a rare bird, lol.
Your reaction to the upgrade is the same as mine! Time will tell as far as how long the SE compensator springs will hold up, but they are stronger than the factory unit that was installed on our bikes. I didn't know the Softail tolerances were a bit tighter, good to know. Happy and safe rider to you, and a job well done!
Read your issue having to grind away material in your primary. Have a 2009 Softail Custom. Had no problem removing compensator with rotor. I would think it would be identical to mine ???? Harley gremlins ?
@@SIERRA-dx9wm I agree, I would have thought they were the same. There was no way mine was coming out without grinding some material away. I kept trying it and would find the high spots that it was hanging up on until it slid out, but still rather tight. Are you the original owner of that bike?
I would think that your alignment between your front primary sprocket and clutch basket sprocket would be altered due to the additional spring being added.
I know, Kenneth, but it's not the spring pack that determines the alignment, it's the stack of metal pieces in the center of the spring pack against the rotor cover. That's why those parts are not interchangeable. Thanks for inquiring.
Awesome info 👏🏼 love the diagram. I hope mine isn’t going bad. I’m getting ready to change the starter clutch first to see if that’s it. Subbed to ya also.
I’ve been watching your videos and I can see where you are going with many of your methods and hypothesis however many of your ideas are just not logical.
The thickness of the center of the rotor. It's important to match up the compensator components and not "mix and match" them so that the alignment of the primary chain stays the same. In other words they are not interchangeable. I wish they were, would have saved me a lot of time and aggravation! I hope this helps.
Hey Mark, thanks for the video, it helped to fix the problem I had in my bike. I would like to change the all kit with this new screaming eagle kit. Where did you get it? I would like to order the new kit with all the parts I need. Thanks for the useful infos.
Thanks for letting me know! I bought all of my parts previously owned, in other words, used. It took a few months of waiting for a lower price to come along. I bought mostly from salvage shops. The would usually have a video of the bike the part came from. Just like Johnny Cash, I bought the unit one piece at a time! Lol. Sometimes I bought a box of miscellaneous parts so I could use something in the box that was hard to find other wise. I used eBay for the most part, but there are salvage shops that will sell and ship directly to you as well. My compensator is not the latest and greatest one, it's one model back which does not use the oiler plastic tray epoxied inside the primary. Make sure you get parts that match. The new and the old SE units have subtle differences that cannot be mix and match! Ok?
When I bought my 07 ultra it had comp issues. I replaced it with the SE kit and now she starts positive with no clunk. Easy to do on a lift I can imagine doing this on my knees lol. I like your vids Mark keep them coming.
So far so good. I don't have the current mileage on this setup at the moment, but remind me to post it. The startups are spot on (especially since I added shims to the Hayden tensioner to reduce the gap from 3/8ths to 3/16ths, which Hayden would not recommend I'm sure). No clunking around even when hot. Good on acceleration and deceleration, nothing unusual about it there. I'm curious as to how it holds up as the miles get higher, will the springs get weak even with the added 5th one? We'll see. Thanks for checking this out!
A replacement compensator, an inner primary kit if you're going to remove and replace it with the compensator upgrade instead of grinding part of the inner primary away to remove the stator hub, new primary fluid, new outer primary gasket, new round gasket for the primary fill/clutch adjustment cover, and labor. I went with a harvested Screamin Eagle compensator assembly to save a few dollars. And a service manual, big help!
The primary kit has new gaskets for the inner primary to motor and transmission, a new oil seal to go around the clutch shaft, and new bolts that are coated with sealant on the head ends to prevent leaking. It says in the manual not to reuse the inner primary bolts because the sealant will not reseal and you'll be looking at a leak of primary fluid. IF you want to grind away part of the inner primary to remove and replace the stator cover, you don't need to buy the primary kit. Only if you totally remove the inner primary. I removed it on mine to replace the compensator the first time, but I had to change out the stator cover AGAIN, so I used a Dremel tool to shave away just enough of the inner primary lip for it to slide off. In short, the cheapest way to swap it out would be the Dremel method, just use brake cleaner to flush away all of the aluminum filings.
@@contact4mwy7 my Primary also make nois like have Stones inside 2015 flhx. I at New tensioner and New drag s.. compensator kit inside but still this shit nois if i drive nois go but if go down ore stay nois like Stones in primary and i 100%sure nois from primary sounds. I see you video maybe 1 more spring plaid will fix have you any idee?
@@Wolf-Germany I am a bit surprised that a 2015 is making this much noise. How many miles on it? Do you go heavy on the throttle? Maybe one more spring would help, maybe better to replace them all with brand new springs?
@@Wolf-Germany is it a whining noise or more of a grumbling rattle? Whining could be the sound of the chain going over the tensioner shoe. Grumbly rattle sound could be from the bearing on the transmission input shaft. Those two and the compensator seem to be the top three for noise from what I've seen in message boards and videos.
My question is why do you think your compensator and stator needs attention? My compensator/stator was inspected and was totally fine after only 30,000 miles?
Hello Mark, Great video. Please can you help me find the correct SE compensator for a 2008 NIghtTrain? Or what site to use to find it. I am not in the USA. Hopefully not too much trouble.
I have an 05 Heritage and mine just makes noise on deceleration on steep grades when the engine is trying to hold the weight of the bike back from going down hill; then it makes a growling noise, that is increasing it seems when ever I am in steep grades. I have 27,000 miles on it and heard it start making noise at about 25,500 and has been getting a little nosier ever since. My motorcycle will cost me 465 for new springs and compensator. Might just buy the Spring pack though and try that first.
I would go the spring pack route as long as everything else looks ok. Check your primary chain tensioner too, as it bears a lot of weight when slowing down.
Dexron III/Mercon (Dexron 3/Mercon) It does not have Friction Modifiers which makes it ok for wet clutch use, and won't harm the wiring to the stator. Some will disagree, and that's ok, but I've put several thousand miles on my bikes using only this type ATF. Some swear Red Line Primary Fluid is derived from a form of ATF, but I have no proof to offer.
dang,,new to hd ,,seems like if it hasnt been recalled it should havebeen,,videos, tools, cash upgrades,,grease,lost time,,screw it,,,goin ridin wheres the honda key,,,,your videos are fine dude thanks
Calling it a stator rotor identifies what type of rotor I am referring to. Not everyone would know what I was referring to if I just called it a rotor, which is why I didn't.
Mark Young - Outside The Box Hi Mark , I have a 07 CVO ultra , been having these issues for over 2 years. I’m interested in your old spring so I could do the 5 spring set up, until Im able to get the up grade compensator. I had found Belleville springs on eBay, just not sure of the size. Great channel by the way, follow all your videos.
Mark Colford I bet we can work that out, after all, I have 8 of those springs now, lol. Have you had the primary open to see which compensator is inside? I just want to be sure which one it is. 07 is the first year of the 96ci Touring models, but being CVO does it have the first generation "pancake flat one" or the Screamin Eagle "three spoke hub type?"
Mark Young - Outside The Box Hi Mark, It has the pancake one , motor is a 110 based on the 96. My truck and bike broke down in the same week. Borrowing a car from my brother until I get a vehicle going. Bike was going to be the least expensive to fix first. Voltage regulator went out on it. I’m just trying to get back on the road . I have an hour commute to work every day. I think adding a spring as you did will buy me time until I can get everything else in order.
Yes, really. I know you would have taken the inner primary off, again, to swap out that one part, but I've been there done that. There's plenty of metal left for the outer primary gasket to seal against. The engineers at Harley could have designed this differently to accommodate the replacement of the rotor or stator, but they didn't. I ground it down, and I would do it again if those parts need replacing. Ridiculous.
Killing me adding extra spring washers. Excessive spring pressure on all the metal to metal parts equals excessive wear with metal particles in oil. . Plus removing the shock absorbing design of compensator. Then smart engineers get paid good money to make things work better. Good luck in long run 10-20K will be the real test. Few miles will not tell you much IMO.
Thank you, I value your opinion. The springs I used are not new, they were taken off as salvage and sold to me, meaning they don't have their full strength. Adding another spring did not tighten up the system much more than what a brand new spring pack would have given. I modified the original compensator by adding a spring in a configuration that I could feel the engine pulses going up hills or accelerating, so I made another change to that packs orientation and this pulses went away. Using this Screamin Eagle setup has given good results in allowing most of the pulses to be absorbed before being transmitted to the rest of the bike. I have no plans to change it to any other configuration anytime soon as I am satisfied with the ride quality and the dependable hot starting ability it has now.
@@contact4mwy7 My factory comp was causing engine to kick back on first start of day, not always but enough to make me wonder why. Been doing it since I bought bike new. After about year plus some research recommended upgrading to SE Compensator. Money well spent no more kick backs or sneezing thru the air cleaner. Pulled it off after stator burned up. No appreciable wear in 30K miles. Ride Safe
I can hear a muffled sound coming from the Primary that I am sure is from the compensator, but I am ok with that. It's more of a muffled metal sliding on metal sound most likely from the spokes and ramp pieces. But it tells me that it's doing its job of cushioning the engine firing pulses before it hits the tranny, which is what we want. So if it's a whirring kind of sound, good. If it's a harsher hitting metal sound, that might be a weakened spring pack?
I agree, they are nice. As long as your crank runout is within specs. The price is kind of high for what it is. Maybe when the price goes down, and after I find out why the runout measurement is so important.
my 2016 roadglide ultras compensator started knocking at 12K miles. Had it replaced by a certified Harley Mechanic with the Screaming Eagle upgrade. 20 minutes out of the shop the Screaming Eagle started clunking like garbage. Going to take the bike in and go with direct gear. They've had nothing but trouble with these compensators or the spring packs over the years and refuse to find a fix for them.. Just my 2 cents.
Buy a solid sprocket and stop messing around with compensators - they are all trash ! Every type of them make it hard for the starter motor to spin your engine ( as the starter motor is trying to compress the spring Instead of just turning the motor over) and causes the battery problems of over overheating due to the current draw, and that shortens the battery life as the plates nearest the terminal buckle and or 'sulphate up'. As the current draw is so high, the available voltage drops and the ignition module then cuts power to the coil. This then causes the spark plugs to fire causing the engine to 'kick-back' causing further problems for the battery and even wrecking the starter dog and clutch ring-gear. It is a poor design idea and should be eliminated.
Wow, Robert, I have yet to hear anything explained in such detail about the compensator and it's relation to the rest of the bike. It makes a lot of sense. Thank you.
Hey Mark! Thank you for doing the experiment with the extra spring washer! I just finished doing it to my 2009 Road King and it seems to be working good for me so far. I did torque the comp bolt to 140ftlbs the first go round, but man after about 10 miles there was so much noise coming out of the chain case I wasn't sure if I should ride it back home or call and have it trailered. I rode it home as gentle as possible. I took it back apart the next morning and noticed that the teeth on the sprocket were running way out against the side of the primary chain and had it running way out on the clutch sprocket as well. I grabbed the torque wrench and checked the comp bolt, I ended up turning it 3/4 of a turn before my torque wrench clicked. That pushed the compensator in far enough to get the sprockets both lined up with the center of the rollers on the chain. I also put in a manual Twin Power tensioner and when I got it all back together I was happy that the bike is now quieter than it's been since I bought it 5 months ago. It shifts into neutral so easy and most of the 6 speed clunk is gone shifting into first. I'll update you when I get more miles on the bike. Thanks again for doing the experiment!!!
Thank you for letting me know! I wonder if the back spring washer dropped behind the center core and got pinched between the compensator and rotor, and then popped out when it was under load? People have suggested that adding an extra spring throws the alignment off, but that's not the case. The alignment is determined by the center core. I'm still running that setup on mine with no issues so far. I'd guess I have around 10,000 miles on it now with this setup.
Sir did you add one to the original, or screaming eagle compensator, you had stated that you got another 3/4 turn on the bolt, I've learned that the loose thing happens too often on the original, because the washer under the bolt is springy, and doesn't transfer the tightness to the extension enough to actually even be tight. Torque wrench readings would be false against that washer. The problem goes away with the screaming eagle unit, for lack of the "WASHER" . Anyway what's your experience on looseness after torqueing the comp bolt.
I've got about 2,000 miles on the bike now with the extra spring washer and so far it's all good. Every once in a while I do get just a little kick back noise but it's pretty rare. When I do my next service I'll pull the side cover off and give it a check over.
@@randymccalla9995
Great video. Could you tell us what the ID and OD and the thickness of the middle size belleville washers?
My 08 fatbob had the old style & it has 140 klm on it now with pulling a chair no worries same with my 97 evo I did 120 klm not a thing wrong & now my 013 street bob has the latter style & it works great .but I service my bike every 5 thousand klm .here in Australia we ride long & hard .
Cheers mark ,,,my Dyna had a little noise when i Turrn the beast off ,,now I believe it's time to do this ,,can't be the tensioner
Did the outer primary have the deflector already there or do you have that install video
There are two types of Screamin Eagle compensators. One uses a regular hex head bolt, like I used. The newer style uses an Allen head bolt and has to have the funnel to drip oil into the center area to lubricate the inner parts better.
Adding that extra spring washer is loading your cam parts unnecessarily. Don't know how many miles you have on it now, but I would pull it and take a peak. A tip to pulling rotor. Tap and thread the two holes for 1/4 20 thread. Screw bolts in use them to pull on. Easily control rotor reinstalling it. My stator was burned up. I did the threading while it was still installed on shaft, not worried about getting metal in the stator windings. What primary oil are you using?
Adding that extra spring washer or four brand new ones (which have to come from a dealer, hard to find) was necessary to my situation. The four original spring washers were worn out and causing issues when starting the bike. I eventually put a Screamin Eagle compensator in it, but this five washer spring configuration did a decent job for startups and absorbing engine pulses. Good tip on rotor removal and reinstall. I have been using Dexron III automatic transmission fluid in my primary on this bike and the one before it. No friction modifiers, less clutch plate "stiction," won't harm the stator wiring. It's very similar to the Red Line primary fluid. Thanks for commenting!
Hello Mark , thanks for sharing this video . I am experiencing difficulty in pulling my compensator , Ive seen how you did it but it seems like in my case I have to shave alot coz I could not really get it out , I am using 100 grit sand paper and have shaved about 1/64 all the way to the edges and still have to shave more. How much is tolerable to sand out ,just wanna get your idea?
Leaving enough for a good seal for the gasket. You should see scuff marks where you have sanded from the magneto cover rubbing against it. That will tell you which areas need more removed, so you don't end up removing more than necessary. I can't rule out that you may have to remove the inner primary housing.
Hey mark, what tool did you use to clearance the inner primary? And how much did you have to take off? I really dont wanna take off my inner to replace the rotor.
The only possible issue i see is the belleville washer opposite the one where you added the extra may have the potential to overflex. But thats probably not even an actual thing.
Actually, I agree that it could be a possibility. Right?
@@contact4mwy7 Maybe. It depends on some unknown factors. I'm sure someone with a degree in springology could come up with an answer.
The only time the washer over flexing would actually be an issue is if it didn't plasically deform and instead decide to asplode. Itd be interesting to put on in a press and see what happened.
@@DoRC it would indeed be something to see in a press! I like the term "springology," that's a good one!
I think that it could be possible that the springs are nearly, completely flat against each other when the bolt is tightened down,and the crankshaft pulses, cause them to contact,their entire surface area, therefore the pulses sould be much less, with an extra spring.
This seems like a good idea that would actually take up any slop in the system. Im going to try it as I have some extra bellville springs
Hi Mark I just started watching your videos 👍👍. I like the idea of trying to improve something but the compensator springs are designed to work as a set equally distributing the force . By installing a second medium spring it doubles the force to bend that spring and causing the remaining springs to distribute the force and bend further cause the 2 medium will bend last. You may see premature wear on the single spring but how soon your guess is as good as mine. Keep on with the videos great job.
Thank you for the comment, Mark. Yes, I am aware of the more stress added to the rest of the spring pack, good observation. I intend on opening the primary next Spring before riding season to inspect the parts and assess how things are getting along. Crossing my fingers.
I was thinking the same thing about premature wear. Because it was designed to work as a set. That don’t mean I don’t love what you’re doing man. It’s people like you who come up with ideas that often turn out better. I’m definitely gonna be watching and keeping an eye on you you’re very clever. Keep the videos coming please I like it when people think outside the box that’s why the compensator has been changed so many times. My Panhead doesn’t even have one just straight socket course it has a dry clutch Keep doing what you’re doing people out here enjoy it later
This is John again. I also have a 2016 fat bomb all kinds of noise is coming from the primary it only has 4200 miles on it of course 103 high output motor with not even 100 hp. The dealership I bought it from said they all make that kind of noise. Now I’m finding little pieces of metal way too big to be normal on the magnet dealership is lying to me. I hope it’s just part of the starter gear later on buddy sold a Panhead by the way. Love that bike John tanner easy Rider 1991 gulf war issue 49 pan I got a good price for it though. I’m thinking about going back to no compensator straight And direct. Just like my go cart when I was a kid push to start
John, I know what you are thinking with the compensator delete, but I don't believe the clutch splines will put up with that in the long term. My 2009 with about 80,000 miles is making a rattle sound from the primary that I'm pretty sure is the clutch main shaft bearing. I haven't dug into it yet.
I've heard a few negative things about the screaming eagle compensator. About to have my stock 09 Road Glide compensator changed to the screaming eagle unit. Hopefully that will stop the slapping noise
I've heard negative comments too, mostly about their springs getting weak or the ramps wearing away from use, but it takes a lot of abuse in protecting the rest of the drive line. I'm still using a salvaged compensator with an additional medium spring washer at the very back to beef up the spring pack just a little more. Glad I made the change from the stock unit. Well worth the time and money.
Ummmm I just chucked my SE comp. Very noisy, bucking when reving down and shifting got noisy when hot. Gone solid. Night to day difference.
@@semtech30 what differences does the compensator eliminator sprocket make ?
Would you still recommend SE Compensator?
I was looking at baker and dark horse ones. But I have concern abit on non stock feel or non stock noises
Although I am not personally familiar with either of those compensators, I have heard good things about them and have received many comments recommending them. I am happy with the SE unit so far even though it came from a salvage, but my motor is only 96 cubic inches which isn't putting a lot of stress on it. I'll let you decide which one to buy. Ask around with other TH-cam makers who have put on the Dark Horse or Baker to get as much feedback as you can. Thanks for asking!
@@contact4mwy7
Yeah I will do that good idea. My bike is only stock 96 ci just looking to make it as reliable as I can. Seems so Harley parts may not be so reliable ??? Cam plate ,oil pump, compensator. Clutch basket
Yes, depending on year and model issues can pop up, and it's better to take care of them, if possible, before they happen. With my 2009 it was the factory compensator that was due to fail. Cam chain tensioners should be checked for wear even though on my motor they are tensioned by the oil pressure, not springs. Harley Davidson forums make a good read too, just Google your year, model, or part you're interested in.
Use 2 angled Allen's for the 2 holes to help put the rotor back on without fear of magnet pull
Nice tip, thank you!
hey Mark did you clued the oil deflector on to thte outer primary cover it didnt look like you did thanks im ready to pu mine on
Thank you for asking. No, because this is the earlier Screamin Eagle compensator that does not have the oil channels like the newer version does. Best way to tell is older version (mine) uses a hex head bolt, and newer version uses an allen head bolt.
I have a 2011 Dyna. I removed the 2011 compensator and installed a OEM 2016 Road Glide SE style compensator. Seems to run fine with it. No more kick back at startup. So I am happy.
I am running an OEM 2012 SE compensator and have found good results also.
Nice video. My only comment is on your torque technique. I always “sneak up” on a torque instead of torquing to final spec. In other words; torque all bolts to say, 15 to start, then 20, then finally 26. And, after final torque to 26, I also recommend you go back a minimum of three times to recheck the torque of each bolt. You’d be surprised how many bolts stretch and lose their torque after a few seconds.
Just my .02
Thank you, understood and much appreciated.
Hey thanks for the great video. I'm curious if you or anyone reading has taken the stock rotor and cut the spring basket off to run the oversized SE spring washers. If so, think I could do it with out having to take it to a machine shop to be milled? I bought my SE compensator 2nd hand and it didn't come with the after-market rotor. Thanks again for your time in making these videos. They help a lot.
Hi there Mark!
Taking the thrust washer out and adding in another spring washer, Seems to me would make the double spring washers stronger against the outer one. They were a pair originally, and as such they were flexing the same amount. By adding another one to the inner spring, you ought to force the outer one to flex more because the inner two are so much stronger. I'm thinking that could become an issue later on? I don't know if they can break, but the outer one must be flexing more than intended.......just my thoughts, anyway.
Hello Ace! You are most likely correct in that assumption. Something has to give, right? In my inspections since, I have not seen any issues created from this configuration, and although I did try running it without the extra spring washer, I later put it back in because it felt a bit too soft and a little sloppy on startup. This is only my two cents, your results may vary. Lol.
Mark thank you for your informational videos on this issue. I just replaced my 2009 Heritage Softail compensator with the SE unit. Despite only 14,000 miles the original had failed! Your video guided me through the process, but the softail inner primary is much tighter & hence the grinding of the metal to facilitate the new stator was little more than arduous. But I prevailed:) the bike now starts & runs great, I saved over $1500 labour at the HD dealer, & I simply feel great about my bike, hopefully this is not a temporary sensation:) Luv your videos, keep them coming your a rare bird, lol.
Your reaction to the upgrade is the same as mine! Time will tell as far as how long the SE compensator springs will hold up, but they are stronger than the factory unit that was installed on our bikes. I didn't know the Softail tolerances were a bit tighter, good to know. Happy and safe rider to you, and a job well done!
Read your issue having to grind away material in your primary. Have a 2009 Softail Custom. Had no problem removing compensator with rotor. I would think it would be identical to mine ???? Harley gremlins ?
@@SIERRA-dx9wm I agree, I would have thought they were the same. There was no way mine was coming out without grinding some material away. I kept trying it and would find the high spots that it was hanging up on until it slid out, but still rather tight. Are you the original owner of that bike?
Yes I bought Mistress III brand new. Great ride. 96 motor is one of HD's best. @@contact4mwy7
I would think that your alignment between your front primary sprocket and clutch basket sprocket would be altered due to the additional spring being added.
I know, Kenneth, but it's not the spring pack that determines the alignment, it's the stack of metal pieces in the center of the spring pack against the rotor cover. That's why those parts are not interchangeable. Thanks for inquiring.
@@contact4mwy7 okay cool. Kudos
would have liked to see you put it back together.
Awesome info 👏🏼 love the diagram. I hope mine isn’t going bad. I’m getting ready to change the starter clutch first to see if that’s it. Subbed to ya also.
@@chrismillersrcfamily thank you! I hope your spring pack is ok, but you'll know if you swap the starter clutch and still having issues.
I’ve been watching your videos and I can see where you are going with many of your methods and hypothesis however many of your ideas are just not logical.
DYNATRASH yet they still work 👍🏻
Bikebender
Hi Mark, What is the difference between the rotors other than the "spring can" on the original. Get where I am going with this?
The thickness of the center of the rotor. It's important to match up the compensator components and not "mix and match" them so that the alignment of the primary chain stays the same. In other words they are not interchangeable. I wish they were, would have saved me a lot of time and aggravation! I hope this helps.
Hey Mark, thanks for the video, it helped to fix the problem I had in my bike. I would like to change the all kit with this new screaming eagle kit. Where did you get it? I would like to order the new kit with all the parts I need. Thanks for the useful infos.
Thanks for letting me know! I bought all of my parts previously owned, in other words, used. It took a few months of waiting for a lower price to come along. I bought mostly from salvage shops. The would usually have a video of the bike the part came from. Just like Johnny Cash, I bought the unit one piece at a time! Lol. Sometimes I bought a box of miscellaneous parts so I could use something in the box that was hard to find other wise. I used eBay for the most part, but there are salvage shops that will sell and ship directly to you as well. My compensator is not the latest and greatest one, it's one model back which does not use the oiler plastic tray epoxied inside the primary. Make sure you get parts that match. The new and the old SE units have subtle differences that cannot be mix and match! Ok?
When I bought my 07 ultra it had comp issues. I replaced it with the SE kit and now she starts positive with no clunk. Easy to do on a lift I can imagine doing this on my knees lol. I like your vids Mark keep them coming.
Thanks Jim, glad to hear it! Thanks for the compliment too, glad your out there on the other side of the editing software!
Hoping to hear about the long term review of your set up. My Baker is starting to clunk when hot. Gotta inspect it soon.
So far so good. I don't have the current mileage on this setup at the moment, but remind me to post it. The startups are spot on (especially since I added shims to the Hayden tensioner to reduce the gap from 3/8ths to 3/16ths, which Hayden would not recommend I'm sure). No clunking around even when hot. Good on acceleration and deceleration, nothing unusual about it there. I'm curious as to how it holds up as the miles get higher, will the springs get weak even with the added 5th one? We'll see. Thanks for checking this out!
just got my Baker after 3 1/2 months on order, looks like a total redesign, please dont say its starting to clunk too!!
Friend I'd just recheck the torque on the baker...also if they sell the springs, order more.
Hey Mark. Can you tell me everything I need for this whole job? Like oil and all that?
A replacement compensator, an inner primary kit if you're going to remove and replace it with the compensator upgrade instead of grinding part of the inner primary away to remove the stator hub, new primary fluid, new outer primary gasket, new round gasket for the primary fill/clutch adjustment cover, and labor. I went with a harvested Screamin Eagle compensator assembly to save a few dollars. And a service manual, big help!
I mean I have an oem one. So the pri.ary kit comes with all the oil and everything?
The primary kit has new gaskets for the inner primary to motor and transmission, a new oil seal to go around the clutch shaft, and new bolts that are coated with sealant on the head ends to prevent leaking. It says in the manual not to reuse the inner primary bolts because the sealant will not reseal and you'll be looking at a leak of primary fluid. IF you want to grind away part of the inner primary to remove and replace the stator cover, you don't need to buy the primary kit. Only if you totally remove the inner primary. I removed it on mine to replace the compensator the first time, but I had to change out the stator cover AGAIN, so I used a Dremel tool to shave away just enough of the inner primary lip for it to slide off. In short, the cheapest way to swap it out would be the Dremel method, just use brake cleaner to flush away all of the aluminum filings.
I have to replace the stator cover? Or did you just do that anyway
Is there a better messaging method? Lol
HOW is the result now from the New SE Compensator ? Have you at still extra springplaid?
I'm still using an extra spring, and it's still going strong.
@@contact4mwy7 my Primary also make nois like have Stones inside 2015 flhx. I at New tensioner and New drag s.. compensator kit inside but still this shit nois if i drive nois go but if go down ore stay nois like Stones in primary and i 100%sure nois from primary sounds.
I see you video maybe 1 more spring plaid will fix have you any idee?
@@Wolf-Germany I am a bit surprised that a 2015 is making this much noise. How many miles on it? Do you go heavy on the throttle? Maybe one more spring would help, maybe better to replace them all with brand new springs?
@@contact4mwy7 it is realy crazy i but new compensator and all new still have the bad nois i think maybe the stator have some nois
@@Wolf-Germany is it a whining noise or more of a grumbling rattle? Whining could be the sound of the chain going over the tensioner shoe. Grumbly rattle sound could be from the bearing on the transmission input shaft. Those two and the compensator seem to be the top three for noise from what I've seen in message boards and videos.
So you didn't have to remove the clutch pack to get the compensator to come out
You don't have too.
My question is why do you think your compensator and stator needs attention? My compensator/stator was inspected and was totally fine after only 30,000 miles?
My factory compensator springs were worn out, so I modified the spring pack and then switched to a Screamin Eagle compensator.
Hello Mark, Great video. Please can you help me find the correct SE compensator for a 2008 NIghtTrain? Or what site to use to find it. I am not in the USA. Hopefully not too much trouble.
I'll try to point you in the right direction. What cubic inch is your motor?
I would have liked to have seen you put it all back together again just for the educational porpoise.
I apologize for not including it, but it really is mostly doing everything in reverse. The service manual is helpful with accomplishing that.
I have an 05 Heritage and mine just makes noise on deceleration on steep grades when the engine is trying to hold the weight of the bike back from going down hill; then it makes a growling noise, that is increasing it seems when ever I am in steep grades. I have 27,000 miles on it and heard it start making noise at about 25,500 and has been getting a little nosier ever since. My motorcycle will cost me 465 for new springs and compensator. Might just buy the Spring pack though and try that first.
I would go the spring pack route as long as everything else looks ok. Check your primary chain tensioner too, as it bears a lot of weight when slowing down.
Mark, what type of Automatic Transmission fluid did you fill your primary with.
Dexron III/Mercon (Dexron 3/Mercon) It does not have Friction Modifiers which makes it ok for wet clutch use, and won't harm the wiring to the stator. Some will disagree, and that's ok, but I've put several thousand miles on my bikes using only this type ATF. Some swear Red Line Primary Fluid is derived from a form of ATF, but I have no proof to offer.
dang,,new to hd ,,seems like if it hasnt been recalled it should havebeen,,videos, tools, cash upgrades,,grease,lost time,,screw it,,,goin ridin wheres the honda key,,,,your videos are fine dude thanks
Screaming Eagle Products? If Harley knows how to build better parts ,why don't they build a better motorcycle for the poor consumer?
You can buy shims that are stackable against the rotor. They are I think $6 apiece.
Awesome man
Very cool but you gotta stop sayin stator rotor:) :) the stator is the stationary part. The rotor is the spinny part.
Calling it a stator rotor identifies what type of rotor I am referring to. Not everyone would know what I was referring to if I just called it a rotor, which is why I didn't.
@@contact4mwy7 ah. Hmm. I guess that makes sense though I wonder if alternator rotor would be as identifying.
you didn't finish putting the compensator back on
We'll, I didn't leave it off
@@contact4mwy7 well, did it just slip back on or did you need remove the clutch hub to get the job done like some had to in other videos
@@jimkolarich7052 it will slip back on if the compensator is tilted towards the clutch and pieces slide on one at a time, carefully.
@@contact4mwy7 thanks!
Great video
1095Crusade Thanks, man.
Hey Mark I’m having the same trouble and I’m interested in some of your old parts. I’m in Dover NH , not too far away.
Hello Mark, what year, engine size and model is your bike? Is it thrashing around on startup? Making a clunking noise on shutdown?
Mark Young - Outside The Box Hi Mark ,
I have a 07 CVO ultra , been having these issues for over 2 years. I’m interested in your old spring so I could do the 5 spring set up, until Im able to get the up grade compensator. I had found Belleville springs on eBay, just not sure of the size. Great channel by the way, follow all your videos.
Mark Colford I bet we can work that out, after all, I have 8 of those springs now, lol. Have you had the primary open to see which compensator is inside? I just want to be sure which one it is. 07 is the first year of the 96ci Touring models, but being CVO does it have the first generation "pancake flat one" or the Screamin Eagle "three spoke hub type?"
Mark Young - Outside The Box Hi Mark,
It has the pancake one , motor is a 110 based on the 96. My truck and bike broke down in the same week. Borrowing a car from my brother until I get a vehicle going. Bike was going to be the least expensive to fix first. Voltage regulator went out on it. I’m just trying to get back on the road . I have an hour commute to work every day. I think adding a spring as you did will buy me time until I can get everything else in order.
Mark Colford can you message me direct to my TH-cam account so I can get a email address or phone number?
So you ground down the inner case? Really?
Yes, really. I know you would have taken the inner primary off, again, to swap out that one part, but I've been there done that. There's plenty of metal left for the outer primary gasket to seal against. The engineers at Harley could have designed this differently to accommodate the replacement of the rotor or stator, but they didn't. I ground it down, and I would do it again if those parts need replacing. Ridiculous.
Killing me adding extra spring washers. Excessive spring pressure on all the metal to metal parts equals excessive wear with metal particles in oil. . Plus removing the shock absorbing design of compensator. Then smart engineers get paid good money to make things work better. Good luck in long run 10-20K will be the real test. Few miles will not tell you much IMO.
Thank you, I value your opinion. The springs I used are not new, they were taken off as salvage and sold to me, meaning they don't have their full strength. Adding another spring did not tighten up the system much more than what a brand new spring pack would have given. I modified the original compensator by adding a spring in a configuration that I could feel the engine pulses going up hills or accelerating, so I made another change to that packs orientation and this pulses went away. Using this Screamin Eagle setup has given good results in allowing most of the pulses to be absorbed before being transmitted to the rest of the bike. I have no plans to change it to any other configuration anytime soon as I am satisfied with the ride quality and the dependable hot starting ability it has now.
@@contact4mwy7 My factory comp was causing engine to kick back on first start of day, not always but enough to make me wonder why. Been doing it since I bought bike new. After about year plus some research recommended upgrading to SE Compensator. Money well spent no more kick backs or sneezing thru the air cleaner. Pulled it off after stator burned up. No appreciable wear in 30K miles. Ride Safe
@@SIERRA-dx9wm That's awesome! What year is this bike? Sounds like it had the flat no-spoke compensator of 2007-2010?
Or until that washer you removed fails and the spring wears through the back of the compensator cam.
If that happens I'll be sure to upload a new video on it!
Belleville washers work as a team... One on one, two on two, not one vs two, etc. Your homemade engineering is not sound.
I appreciate your opinion. Time will tell.
Thats what i was thinking when i was watching the vid.
Stater. The magic. Should rotate
My M8 107ci, has a Screamin eagle compensator. At 32,000klms, it is sounding real bad.
Already?! What year is it?
@@randymccalla9995 very quiet and smooth
@@contact4mwy7 2017
I can hear a muffled sound coming from the Primary that I am sure is from the compensator, but I am ok with that. It's more of a muffled metal sliding on metal sound most likely from the spokes and ramp pieces. But it tells me that it's doing its job of cushioning the engine firing pulses before it hits the tranny, which is what we want. So if it's a whirring kind of sound, good. If it's a harsher hitting metal sound, that might be a weakened spring pack?
@@contact4mwy7 yes, correct
I must add you make a amazing how to video !!!
Thank you !!!!
Harley OE & SE comps are junk. Spend more & get a Dark horse comp. The best & rebuildable for 30 bucks.
I agree, they are nice. As long as your crank runout is within specs. The price is kind of high for what it is. Maybe when the price goes down, and after I find out why the runout measurement is so important.
Same Electra I motor.
my 2016 roadglide ultras compensator started knocking at 12K miles. Had it replaced by a certified Harley Mechanic with the Screaming Eagle upgrade. 20 minutes out of the shop the Screaming Eagle started clunking like garbage. Going to take the bike in and go with direct gear. They've had nothing but trouble with these compensators or the spring packs over the years and refuse to find a fix for them.. Just my 2 cents.
All Rushmore models come from the factory equipped with SE comp lol
👍 love Cadillac Mountain
Thanks Mark!
screaming eagle makes junk way better shit out there
i put the new screaming eagle compensator in 1000 miles ago and last week on 90 degree day yes it clunked again what a piece of junk
A new one gave out that quick?
You know you sure. Fix whst not broken.
2017 M8 107ci
Buy a solid sprocket and stop messing around with compensators - they are all trash ! Every type of them make it hard for the starter motor to spin your engine ( as the starter motor is trying to compress the spring Instead of just turning the motor over) and causes the battery problems of over overheating due to the current draw, and that shortens the battery life as the plates nearest the terminal buckle and or 'sulphate up'. As the current draw is so high, the available voltage drops and the ignition module then cuts power to the coil. This then causes the spark plugs to fire causing the engine to 'kick-back' causing further problems for the battery and even wrecking the starter dog and clutch ring-gear. It is a poor design idea and should be eliminated.
Wow, Robert, I have yet to hear anything explained in such detail about the compensator and it's relation to the rest of the bike. It makes a lot of sense. Thank you.
@@randymccalla9995 Since I fitted a solid sprocket, my battery has lasted 5 years.... compensating sprockets are crap.
Such poor engineering. That's why they make so much dam noise. I rode along side some of them and it sounded like an old combine.
Thanks for the comment.
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Screamin Eagle Comp - GARBAGE!
Old sucks