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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 พ.ย. 2015
- I was over at Ital Meccanica in Huntington Beach where my good friend Alberto Ferroni was doing some bodywork on his Porsche 911 race car. Here, he explains the benefits of using lead instead to plastic filler and how much faster the process really is. Don't forget to 'Click' and SUBSCRIBE!
- ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
Back in the 70's I knew an old black man that was an artist with lead. I guess I never knew his real name, we always called him " PICK - N - FILE " He refused to use Bondo. He told us if a car was really screwed up it could weigh 100 pounds heavier when he was done. Funny his grandson was an artist also, but with Bondo. LOL... Did it in half the time as well. I'm pretty sure the old man has since passed, but I do remember how GORGEOUS his jobs came out. R.I.P. " PICK - N - FILE... ;-)
What does him
Being black have to do with the story? Just wondering.
@@dw5878 Now that I think of it, not much. Except he was a really NICE guy, and I didn't know many black's that were as nice or talented. He WASN'T an angry man, and DIDN'T feel White America owed him shit. His grandson was just as nice. There are many black's that I DON'T feel warm and fuzzy about. He was a GOOD guy. I have pleasant memories about him. So there you have it. If more people were like him, we wouldn't have this BLM issue. My political 2 cents. LOL.
@@dw5878 it gives you the generall idea of the guy in the story. I like to imagine what te person might have looked like, so the fact that he was black, gives me material. Go be offended somewhere else
@@entrophany Nice reach there. 1st of of All wasn’t asking YOU anything. I was talking to the guy who made the comment. 2nd he didn’t say the man was black to add a visual to the story,. If that was the case he would have said he knew this old white man who was an artist with lead. People say things like that because race makes a difference to them. That’s what they notice. The mans race has nothing to do with the point he was trying to make.
And if someone said an old English guy, or an old russian guy or an indian or african guy that would be racist as well. Hey over yourself. The bloke said nothing bad about being black.
People need to settle down.
I was taught to do lead wiping as we called it while doing my apprenticeship with Mercedes Benz back in the late seventies in South Africa we weren't allowed to use body filler we had to panelbeat using a what was known as a file hammer and then file it using a flexible body file and shrinking any high spots and if i'm not mistaken i saw the marks of a file hammer on his fender we used a different technique for spreading the solder not too different except we made different shaped wooden blocks for different parts of the vehicle usually teak and we also used ATF and later bees wax as a lubricant to help spread the wet/molten solder applied to the block before spreading it also prevented your blocks from destruction i'm happy to see that the art of body repair the proper way is being kept alive respect sir
Amen to that. Well said, Brother. RH DSD
never the proper way yet manufactures and repairers were doing it in the beginning? Steve share some of them drugs, or at least give an explanation for that shit you dribbled?
@@jasonstalder5208 Before there was bondo for dent repairs, way before you were born, this was the proper way.
@SpeedRacer 650 It looked like to me he stayed on the tinned area, just got close to the bottom edge.
@@sailingsolar i know buddy, my dad taught me to lead load and is older than the gentleman in this video. i live by the old ways. the tin of bondo in my shed is so old it cannot be used (thats how much i use it)
Dying art. Definitely prefer this method of body work on my 71 pagoda over bondo. Why anyone would use bondo on any vehicle that has a potential value of 6 figures when completed is beyond comprehension. These guys should start an apprenticeship program to preserve the trade skill. High value skill because not many are doing it or even know what it is.
This craftsmanship is reserved for a vehicle worthy of preservation. Most modern cars however expensive are not built to last. Kudos to the maestro.
When I was a boy I used to hang out at a body shop to watch body guys do this. It takes a great deal of skill and knowledge to do this right. I loved watching this video.
i just found out my grandfather did this type of work when he moved to the U.S.A. back in 1957 untill today i never heard of this kind of work im going to look more into this and thank you for sharing
My dad did lead work and pick and file, he trained me. This was many years ago, thanks for the video and the memories it brought back.
Watching this guy lead loading takes me way back to my apprenticeship ,part of which was accident repair, this was about the period when the modern body filler was just emerging, people here talk about the health risk with using lead , sure , but when the present day types of body filler came in not many people thought to use breathing masks , so it wasn't only the actual user that suffered , anyone working in close proximity were also affected,
I remember one old guy , he was a joy to watch , lead loading was an art , he always had a Woodbine smoking away in his mouth , great bloke , but what I did pick up on,
old Les used to shape the lead by using a mole skin covered spatula to which he would apply a very light coat of tallow, in those days it was just not allowed to use filler paste on the Rolls Royces and Bentleys it had to be lead , hey the good old days ?
When I was fixing cars back in the 1920s I was leading up a storm with solid lead
Great video CM R&D!
I'm just getting started with building my first hot rod. I like learning these old school techniques that you don't hear much about anymore.
Dude more of this guy and his little porsche.. Thats awesome technique !
Excellent instructional video, Alberto Ferroni looks like the classic European craftsman, it's a pleasure to watch him work. Thanks
Thanks for posting this, John.
Absolutely brilliant! Now do it with the glass and interior still in and see how that goes. No wonder Plastic filler became so popular. But if you're doing a bare shell, bare matal resto, then this is it.
good point
Thank you John, this was amazing!
Always wondered about this, but it seems so right instead of awful filler/bondo
That was awesome! Great presentation! I learned a lot. This makes me want to do leading. It's not really that bad once you learn it!
Nice to see a pro at work, repaired many cars using this process, still good today, keep it alive.
Leading was a common practice in the factory back in the forties, fifties and sixties. utube has several videos showing this. but those guys were quick and very accurate. a lost art!
GM car plant in Oshawa was still finishing body work using using tin/lead in the 80s.
I had a '78 Chevy truck body that had some lead over a repair that appeared to be factory work. Eliminated the rust around the edges of the lead, and then re-repaired it the same way (lead).
Thank you for this John, I was lucky my grandfather taught me the art of leading a body. it is a dying art and not to many people left in the world that can even work lead. Great flashback here and great memorys of my grandfather yelling at me for getting the metal to hot ha ha. Excellent video Keep it up buddy
I'm a lettering artist/sign painter some crafts if they can't be altered to be safe, should die before IT kills anymore. Luckily the vinyl crap hasn't totally killed my craft, now that lead-free good quality lettering enamel is available.
I started doing Autobody repairs in 1957 the sheet metal on the cars of that era was substantially heavier ,and still you had to be very careful to avoid warping ,the cars of today could never take the heat without distorting beyond saving. True Bondo changed the whole industry.
Hi can you pls share some of your tips and tricks from your Automotive career?
interesting . have heard this term "leading" from many years of being around auto shops but never saw it done. very practical. no shrinking and becomes part of the structure. I like this. thanks.
My 48 Chevy has lead on the cab corners and the cowl and roof pillars .thanks for the video now I can do it the right way
Glad to see somebody still doing body work the right way
Lololololololol
Lead is eternal! Fantastic work!
love this video I'd love to see more of it
me to this is the first video I have seen on doing led work
Leading in was common practice on decent cars back when I was a lad in the 50/60s.
nice work, really enjoyed this video.
Folks, he is using 70/30 solder like what is used on brass musical instruments. 70% TIN and 30% LEAD. There is nothing else in the rod besides trace contaminants. Having 70% of the filler be tin makes it much harder and more like steel. The 30% that is lead is strictly there to allow the tin to melt and flow. Electronics people frequently use 60/40 solder because it is softer and flows into small spaces better. You do not need the end product to be super stiff like steel on a PCB - you need two pieces of metal to have permanent contact with one another. On a trumpet (or in this case a quarter panel) you need the end product to be very hard, so the tin content is bumped up some. He is *not* using "lead" as some keep saying. It is tin/lead solder.
Still a dangerous mix. Pretty much any lead without sophisticated protection is too much.
Exactly.I was a panel beater in 1958 to 1968.We always used body solder with good results.Did not harm me at all.85 now.
@@DDS029Yes because the chemicals and fumes in other types of filler are sooo much better for you duh. People hear lead and right away want to put on hazmat suits you probably drinking worst in your tap water than the exposure using this method.
I used to melt 90% lead, 1.5 % antimony and 3% tin in a stereo room as a kid. Dross off the impurities and make ingots or as was called pigs. We were printers with Linos and news work. I added plus metal to keep the ratios constant. At 540 degrees things were a little warm at times. I kept taking salt tablets and water. Start drinking Pepsi and you could get dizzzzy. We had a body man in town and a new Ford car fell off the transport truck from the factory. This man used 6" X 1/2" square lead with oxy to fill in the bent fenders. I have used solder/oxy to repair a gas tank leak on a Mitsubishi car and it requires a cleaner to prep the metal for best results (the cheaper solder from China is bad news). This approach we see here seems rather slow; but, I only guess. The tin gives it hardness and the antimony allows the lead to fill in the tiny pockets. I would rather use a smaller torch head with the fuel being used here and thus allow the application to be heat and filler metal (simotaneously sp) with a more continuous motion. This would speed up the process and lay down a more continuous amount of filler. It can be done either way. I have seen the oxy approach and it is fast if you have the hand.
yes, its ok to sniff bondo fumes and kitty hair.
Fantastic this work , congratulations !!!!
this is a very good way to repair a old jeep body or other old heavy gauge car thanks for showing this
I come from hearing about the lead sled days in Lakewood and Compton California car hop days. That was the filler back then, so I learned from George Barris and Junior Hersh Conway at Juniors House of Color. Now thanks to your video I can see the actual work that my dad and uncle talk about sometimes more back int he 70's and 80's and those 50's mercs
Thanks for making this video!
I worked at a car plant that received and repaired new vehicles shipped here from other countries. They had to use lead as a filler on some spots. I watched them do this every day.
Amazing artist! Don't know with Fiber Fillers today and the way you can fill with a hard adhesive as opposed to bondo, but would I always take the time?..but if I had the time and a Porsche sitting in my garage....hell yes...I would love to give it a try! Amazing hammer work to get that fender shaped the way it was to ready it for lead! That is so hard to do without stretching the metal as you flatten! So bravo...and then to see him work that lead like butter, is amazing! Certainly is a lost art!
The metal is already stretched due to the damage. The trick is to heat shrink it. That will take care of at least any kind of filler work. Lead, fiberglass, or plastic.
While I appreciate the time and effort someone took to share this with up, why do haters have to hate out loud? If you don't like a particular video, move on or make your own and SHOW us how much you know. Thank you for sharing this video. I would like to meet Mr. Ferroni as I'm sure he has some great stories we could all learn from.
Chris ,
Because everyone has a right to voice their opinion good or bad, if you dont like it thats tough shit.
well said, these people are called "trolls" they even hate the good videos don't matter what the subjects.
Always nice to watch a pro in action! !😄😄😄😄
thank you for the demonstration. it was informative
Don't worry about protective equipment. There was a canary off to the side next to the asbestos wrapped chewing tobacco and the leaded gasoline space heater.
Yea because there is not toxic chemicals in bondo and fumes
Give us a break, would ya?
relax, he wasn't chewing on the shit! lead gives off toxic fumes when its over temp and TRUST ME after 17 fucking years in the trade the isocyanate will get you 1st every time
@@jasonstalder5208 exactly! if lead poisining worrys you you probably should work in a body shop because frankly i dont think theres anything in there that wont fuck you up
paint fumes
resin fumes
exaust fumes
oils
fuels
other automotive fumes
sharp things
hot thinks
heavy things
pneumatic nut drivers justt waiting to snap your wrists off
ppe is helpfull but there comes a point where you just have to say fuck it and get the job done
cause if you go by the recomendations that soy latte drinking office boys will come up with your average roofer would spend half his time just setting up infact i think the current H&S requirements for reflashing a roof would be
scafoliding errected if its over 1 floor
roof scafold with safety rails to prevent falls
full body harness with arrestor cable and dual tie off clips
knee protection
eye protection
gloves
full respirator
hearing protection
full faced mask for splashing
the 1200 page risk assessment document
the £30 a hour supervisor to ensure H&S compliance
fuck off just get your ass up the fucking roof and do the job so we can all fuck off up the pub for some lunch
fuzzorama you’ve been sniffing way to many mothership fumes
Thanks,enjoyed very much. I heard lead was also good for areas that flex a lot.
When I was on a school trip to the Ford Motor plant about 100 years ago (might as well be) I watched a guy filling the join between the roof and the body with lead on a Mk3 Cortina.
Correct; they used lead fillets to contour those joints.
All cars of that era had lead joints in the rear dog leg...its a dying art lead filling/joining
so glad u guys filmed this. i dont see hwo this is something that was fazed out. especially the fact that its structural repairs while bondo is just a band aid to hid the bad stuff.
I just watched a Leading video & both yours & Eastwood's video opened my eyes.
I want do Bessie up with lead.
Aloha,
Chief
Im building a period chopper and this is how I intend to do part of the frame molding, along with some brazing and tig welding where the gas tank is molded into the frame neck. Thanks for sharing 😊👍
that man is a true master of the lead
Awesome! well Done!
That man is a craftsman
Brilliant 33seconds in and somebody remembers to plug Alberto in ,Great to see a skilled man at work,these days whole panels are Bondoed(fillers) before paint .what did they do to get a smooth finish on the old car,( lead?)
Wonderful craftsmanship that is a genuine privilege to watch. I'm told that before the seventies a lot of new cars used to come of the line with a surprising amount of leading already in place! Thanks for the treat.
Not sure if I agree. I know enough to be aware that this only demonstrated the application of the lead and the job is only as good as the subsequent finishing of the profile. For me it's the appeal of the craft in the initial application of the lead. There is no doubt about it being a better process than resin based fillers.
Mate! It is a dying art as the guy said and if what you said was correct then my father-in-laws career spanning decades never was, so I will take your heartfelt comments on advisement. You don't like it and yes you would not tackle an entire panel such as the one shown here but rather would reach for your leather hammers. I can assure you that the craftsman panel beaters of old used all these skills and more besides to turn out many wonderful cars. I'm sure that your experience is applicable to your world as much as mine. You have a different opinion let's leave others to work out who's the twat!
Steve Prince as I say , you have your opinion which is allowed I believe. I have mine, also allowed. You are obviously a god among men and I am ignorant. I am glad, however to be me and not you. Feel free to troll off to your ten figure cars!
Steve Prince that's wonderful Steve and I am really very happy for you. You must be most welcome wherever you go! In my experience, which you choose to discount based on no apparent knowledge, I have seen many piss poor old and new repairs both polymeric filler and admittedly rather rarely now, in lead and I have encountered many leaded repairs that have lasted the test of time without ever showing themselves till exposed by trauma. If I was conducting repairs to a valued car of mine I would certainly prefer lead to resin filler if I have to have either.
Your ego is most welcome to reply yet again if it wishes but to be frank, I'm so fucking bored now I can't be arsed to listen. Cheers
Steve Prince. Why would you care about the opinion of an ignorant, semi-skilled, inexperienced and half blind person. In fact, I have only one thing to be grateful for. I'm not a sad socially dis functional twat that has to hang around on TH-cam to find people to engage with new! 😆
That’s cool. In roofing we use a similar method with copper. A soldering iron is used. Some have a torch attached. I do sheet metal work( metal roofing, ductwork etc).
Alberto is an artist! A true lost art! Plastic filler is not all together that bad because it does have its applications. You can't do this to a painted panel and the heat does stress the metal.
Why would you want to
@@themechanicman3865for collision repair.
A true craftsmen at work :-)
in the 60s the shop ihung out had a pot of molten lead cooking I have some lead bars which I use to fill small rust holes such as hood where filler does poorly in weather you can patch w.copper then lead if large spot.
watch out, some fool will try to pour that molten lead over someone's head like in game of thrones, my girlfriend told me about that and got me hooked on that show lol
Good vid i like you keep it old school i never got to learn that im a body shop baby but unfortunately led is one thing i never met my dad works very old school and im happy i got to learn this trait never went to school straight to the frame lol
This is very much like how I do it, I leaned myself just by trying but it was mostly a no brainer since I have been doing electronic soldering for most of my life often using a torch for large electrical connections.
Also on a side note, I saw a 930 at the blasters recently and it had old pre existing lead work in the same areas in this video.
my grandfather just passed away at 71 he started doing body work 50 yeas ago i had the chance to talk to him about led its something that is a lost art in this part of the world was fascinating to see him light up and talk about doing led on cars from the 40s in his back road shop he built from reused boards and a dirt floor was in the building a few years ago its sagged and twisted probably going to get knocked down hard to believe he painted the better part of our rough estimate 6400 full paint jobs and countless touch ups
it's lead....not led
Thats awesome you got to talk to him about it.I'm sure that gave him so much joy,to share with you!Your grandfather was a baller!
@@roygray6674 7 years he's been gone miss him dearly
it's always nice to watch master craftsman dong what they love to do.
I grew up in Amityville L.I. N.Y. . When I was about 5-6 years old I d walk up our street ( Margaret’s Ave., ) to Tony’ Auto Body Shop , Margaretta & Old Sunrise Hwy. Tony Wojehkowski did lead ( only ) body work using a lead hot pot and a shaping trowel . He was a master and always had 3-4 cars needing work . 10:40
That's amazing! Thank you!
I was taught by an ex Fisher Carbodies lead loader, and I did it for many years. Two things: I never used my finger with the solder paste, but a clean brush, and secondly this an active acid flux and after tinning it's essential to rinse off any residue or you will get crazy rust. We made a hardwood bat, like a little boat, which we kept in a hubcap with some clean oil and a cloth. You can do any shape with one of those. By the way, when car bodies got thinner in the 1980s, believe it or not we had an asbestos mash mixed with water that you put on the body around the lead area to keep down distortion.
My friend a I rebuilt a 1944 Willys MB and that how we did all the panel joints on the patch panels. Did it 6 years ago and their still solid. It was daunting at first but really was a lot of fun. We did it in an open air and all filing was done by hand. Power sanding doesn't really work like it does on bondo. The filing really does smooth out easily. Go to Eastwood for supplies, they are great.
EXCELLENT! EXCELLENT! Thank you.
Very cool I might give it a go with some scuffed wheels I have. I also wonder if you could use lead free solders instead they have a higher melting point but that may not matter for this application.
I did it on a motorcycle fender about 10 years ago and it was fun.
Best video on lead work
I thought on modern cars the sheet metal was so thin that even the low temperature needed for soldering could easily warp the panel.
old school skills. best cars start with the best metal work. my brother is old school panels to, the go to man for prestige work. he did my toy , full metal finish with a little lead loaded into those "bad spots" for future cancer protection. car always gets comments about its lines. hat off to you Alberto!
its good to know the old ways. thanks.
Omg this brings back so many memories. My father was a body and fender repair guy most all his life and wiped lead back in the 50 & 60's. Use to watch him squish the lead rods and make puddles and then working it with wooden paddles in acid that had different shapes and sizes.
He would be 98 now if he was still alive. It is a dying art that the new generation never learned but the metal of today cars will not stand up to the heat without warping.
hey.. Scotchbrite is the same in any culture, how very reassuring..
This would be great basis for a "Mastercraft" series of vids on traditional repair stuff, .. thank you this is magic.
I had a 1970 ford fairlane 500, when the viral top went bad I removed it only to find the factor had leaded the roof panel to the fender, I didn't realize they were still doing that at the time.
Much Appreciation
Much Honor
Body butter is traditionally a tub of tallow that is used as flux for leading. Since tallow and butter are very similar, and it looks like a big cube of butter, I assume that's where the name came from. I've never seen plumbing solder paste used for tinning the body, but it makes a lot of sense and it much less stinky than the traditional method. The only concern I would have is the flux in the the paste being corrosive if not washed off immediately after tinning.
+eformance the tallow part of this that it is the barrier between the leading bat and the body solder
Hotgoddamthatizsum beautiful utoob writin!
EFormance Engineering the sheep tallow is used on the wood paddle to keep the molten lead from sticking to it instead of the metal.....my uncle owned a body shop in Hamtramck, Michigan years ago I watched him perform magic with lead filler
There were different blends of plumbing solder
i didn't read the description....but after the first two words from Alberto i thought "it's Italian, for sure!"...... i guessed XD (Greetings from Italy!)
I can see where both leading and body filler have their places. As for people talking about the weight of body filler don't be absurd. Lead is incredibly heavy and the shade tree forma panel body filler way of doing this isn't how it's done. When fixed properly there is never much filler involved.
I tried this once with my Reliant Robin. It didn't go well....
Ha ha ...
your meant to use a hair drier and Plasticine on robins ,,, lol
robins are a small three wheel car here in the uk , prone to tipping over , however the joke here is that they are made of fibreglass , lol
I remember a guy restoring a 1968 Oldsmobile 4-4-2 and he used lead instead of bondo (aka plastic body filler) for the body panel filling
Lol
This is an extremely hard method and a lost Art. We were taught this in Autobody school, but with the advent of Plastic mudd filler, Lead was not used very much. A true body man can use lead and filing and shrinking but it is an extremely hard art to master. Lead is a hundred times better than plastic, but todays body panels are very thin compared to a 55 chevy or Deuce coup type of hot rods. My Respects. RH DSD
He's right plastic body filler is pretty terrible stuff . I'm working on my 1970 alfa romeo and found 10 mm thick slabs of the stuff all down the sides that has soaked up water and blown out . Going to replace with real metal and try and teach myself lead loading for a permanent solution .
Practice,practice makes perfect, once you master it like any brazing or soldering you will do well. As mentioned this will last indefinitely as a bond. Once you get comfortable with the process,you will never go back to plastic fill if you can avoid it.But this process is not cost effective in a production orientated body shop,Strictly for high end expensive steel bodied cars or personal use. Great video.
Very good!
Ah yes tining and lead. Toxic if contracted through the skin or directly inhaled, makes this sorta of work very pleasant to watch. An art indeed and the body worker is a craftsman at heart. Truly a unique way to fix damage from time.
Like Stuart Cambell we also used to call it wiping because our method of application was different. We would have a container of liquid white metal (same as you rod plus a bit of zinc). We would wear a very thick leather glove with an attached thick leather flap. You would plunge your gloved hand into the molten metal and then wipe it off against the area to be repaired. Done very quickly to avoid being burnt.
used a piece of leather , a 'moleskin pad'
in my time we used a different spoon for doing that . I used a lead spoon and a vixen file.
If in a area of the vehicle were it's impossible to use a torch you can use a soldering iron I did a lot of this work in the 80s but I must say plastic filler is as good if done correctly the biggest mistake most people make with any body filler is they make it to thick no filler should be over one eighth of an inch thick
insulman100 I
As you said tinning led work is totally different and more difficult. I use this for part repair for chroming
Haven't tried it myself but I'm told you can use an electric hot air gun to give a very "soft" heat source.
you'd be there forever..
Excellent
I miss Johns videos, he was a good man.
Ever wonder why they called hotrod 50’s Mercury’s “Lead Sleds”, here’s your answer. They were all leaded, all the frenched headlights, tall lights, shaved door handles and trim, all of of it was done with lead.
You can tell he's an old school Italian guy. nice job sir
leaded many years ago .took the fender welt out and leaded the seam on an old chevy couple.
Interesting... seriously interesting. Honestly think the quarter would have been getting its skim coat by the time your waiting on the haz.. I meant lead to cool. I would really like to see how you cover that whole quarter with that technique. Also I'm very interested in the final results.
for the love of art keep it going . nice. lead will outlast bando in adverse weather
A lost art ! Now it's all about how quick can you get it done
Now that's old school craftsmanship
Important to note, up to the late 80's just about every car made came with lead body work right out of the factory, that is how the roof was attached to the main body, at least for most domestic manufacturers(American for you Furin types) Bondo is garbage, avoid it any any cost.
i tried lead work on my 64 skylark and I'll never use bondo on a classic. lead worked great and was easy to sand 80 grit to a smooth surface. can be difficult to learn but once you learn to heat it then smooth it like a butter it's a cool art
A true craftsman who want's to have pride in their work uses lead (carefully).
Yup! That Alberto guy shows alot of promise. He is gonna be good at this in a couple of years. ;)
Obviously a better end product. However do EPA regs cause this to be an issue?
naturally as a car lover I hated the thought of bondoing over pitting. glad im leading my 1st gen celica
Very interesting.
Is it possible to use this method also in aluminum car bodies?