How to do lead loading, soft soldering on car bodywork, Tips and Tricks #5
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 ม.ค. 2019
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My late father did his plumber's apprenticeship in the 1950's. He did lead pipe joint wiping, a lot of roof guttering repairs and was quite an artist with lead and solder. He once repaired the rotten door corners of my mother's Mini Clubman estate with solder and hand beaten sheet copper, cut from an immersion heater water. He would have appreciated your careful explanation and skills. Thank you.
Dewex Dewex Great memories, thanks for sharing. Cheers Trev 👍
Yeah my late father did his car bodywork this way also. It's a skillset in it's own right that is rarely seen. I wouldn't be rubbing my fingers over the lead without gloves though Trev.
Kudos to you again Trev for demonstrating one of the lost arts of body work. I"ve watched a hundred hours of body and fender videos in the last two years and have learned more from you than anyone else on TH-cam. Keep it up. We who do this as a hobby need what you have.
check out Fitzees channel as well, he does some great metal work
There’s something very satisfying about watching this kind of work.
One of the old panel beater lecturers at my trade school did a demonstration of lead loading. He used a wooden spatula soaked in oil for smearing it around, and referred to the state the lead should be in when you apply it as "cheesing".
He also demonstrated the importance of controlling the temperature of the parent metal by showing how the lead wouldn't flow if it was too cold and would run onto the floor if it was too hot.
Was one of those super cool things that I will remember for the rest of my life!
A true art form.
Thanks Trev. You've given me the confidence to have a go at this.
Thanks Trev, I have wondered for years how this is done and your tutorial is really great and informative to watch. As usual your skills are awesome and I appreciate you taking the time to show us all how it's done. Top marks young man!
Very therapeutic to watch 🤗 A complete PITA in practice 😬 Great explanation Trev 👍
Excellent video, Trev. Always very informative, and designed for people working on a limited budget.
I really appreciate your professional take on the various scenarios and considerations with repairs done (end of this video).
Was the first thing we learend in Auto Body School..but no a days it seems to be a dead art. Glad hyou have shown how it is done...again You are AWESOME
You made it easy to understand and provided me a new use for my supply of auto body solder for my 93 fox body stang instead of using it to cast bullets for reloading.
Love the job and the nod to the old Teacher... It's funny how time with certain people change our path though life... I think you and Bad Obsession have the best instructional Video's for Auto fabrication.
Thanks for the video Trev. A lost art for sure. Keep up the good work.
Thanks tacks me back to the good old days .
Thanks for sharing!! Easy to understand when u r showing and talking about fixing 👍 I was wonder why it looks leading, cheers mate!!
Seeking out solutions to repairing my motorcycle tank that has a hole in it, I came across this video. Excellent stuff. It has given me the confidence to try the repair. Subscribed. Thank you!
i very much appreciate that your video is "real time". it gives me a much better feel for the time the processes take. loving these teaching videos.
portabull Hey Thanks, your comment is very much appreciated. Cheers Trev 👍
Great job, I've try this and it's not easy. Thanks Trev. Cheers Bob
old school tech ,before my time but i have always wondered how it was done, brillant video
The artist hand at work!
Also after preheating the panel and stick you rub left to right quickly whilst keeping the heat softly active on the panel, the heat automatically is transferred to the stick keeping it molten and the stick cools the panel leaving dry looking beads as a coating.. Easier said than done :-) but do-able . By the way your channel is great Trev I thoroughly enjoy watching ..!
Cheers mate
G
Trev
Nicely done !
Trev you're the best!! Love your work and all your videos.
Thanks Jon 👍
Wow, you have such amazing talent, I would burn out after one big repair.
Just discovered your channel, absolutely blown away! Keep up the good work!!👍🏻👍🏻
thank you for teaching and sharing such a intriguing lost craftsmanship.
yellowrusty bird1 Hey Thanks 🤩, your comment is very much appreciated. Cheers Trev 👍
I was taught lead loading by an old Pressed Steel Fisher loader. He told me that you must rinse the flux off with water after using lead paint, because it's an active, acid flux and subsequent rusting is guaranteed if you don't remove it properly. Believe it or not, we used to cover the surrounding area with an asbestos mulch to keep distortion under control. We also used engine oil instead of tallow, kept in an old hub cap with a clean cloth on top as a pad. Thanks for sharing your skills.
Thnak you , I am a recycled computer scientist with a passion for old cars you're helping me a lot !
Great to hear, good luck with your projects. Cheers Trev 👍
fabulous fabulous, I thought lead filling body panels was a lost art that died with my uncle! it's good to see you demonstrate the mastery of it.
Well demonstrated old school method… great content
Hey thanks 😊
You make it look easy and it’s not .great work 👍
I saw this done once and wanted to try it myself but had not instruction on the matter. Thanks for this video and explanations.
really interesting channel mate and some great content too
I had to learn how to led 33 years ago in College for AutoBody. It’s a skill you always want to use on classic trucks and cars.
Another good vid Trev, tallow was used by plumbers to gamer wooden dies through lead pipes to widen them and straighten out any dents👍🏻
Thanks from the U.S. California bay area for sharing your talent. I need to make some TH-cam videos of what I'm doing.
I’ve tried this a couple times with really bad results. Now I know what I was doing wrong: EVERYTHING! Thanks I think I’ll try again
Thank you for the tips on leading. I have been wanting to try it instead of plastic fillers. Ronnie.
good leading job! its been a long time since i had a go at it
Great video it's a skill that's getting less and less as the old school boys are getting less these days keep up the good work Trev
Haha Tallow, I understand it's an animal fat product? You're correct Trev about the use for pulling cables through conduits but not anymore! I've been an electrician for 20 years and never used it only heard about it. We use 'Lube' now (suit you Sir) a synthetic product. Also in another life I was in the Royal Navy and remember being told about Tallow being used to grease wooden blocks/pulleys so a versatile natural product for sure. Thanks for sharing all your knowledge Trev. I'm beginning to dislike you though because you make these skills look so easy and are giving me the belief that I can do them too. Great stuff, please keep posting. Regards, Peter
Great work Trev on the lead loading , inspired me to have a go fingers crossed
Thanks Adam just consider your ventilation 👍
looks satisfying.
It is great to revisit all your old videos! I want to try this, just because.. Even though the car I'm restoring is way to young to have even seen this at the factory. :)
Carl Georg Tsigakis Thanks Carl, lead does have properties fillers never will have. Cheers Trev 👍
We use to use Bees Wax and tint the panle with the lead...but I learned something new which is a good thing
Good job on the leading/body solder.
I've been using this for repairs off and on for the past 40 years. Just depends on what the customer wants and feels they can afford. Last one I did was for a long time friend on a 2006 Chrysler mine van. Passenger side dog leg and rocker panel replacement.
Butt welded the panels, which as you said, shrunk in just enough for a good area to apply the lead. Worked out very nicely and no polyester filler was needed.
Good job 👍😎
very good and informitiveGREAT
Brilliant job well done and thank you for your excellent demonstration !
Traditionally Plumbers use Tallow with cloth and class D solder stick.
I presume your lead stick is Tinmans stick.
Marvelous to watch .
Please promote good ventilation and the use of Barrier cream .
Thanks for your brilliant content !
Your lead stick
In the 50,s in Kent I used to watch plumbers wipe pipe joints they used a canvas pad wrap some had leather pads they had a soft bar of tallow They used blowlamps then
The previous message should have ended with.
Thanks for your Brilliant content.
🙂
Great job, you made it look relatively easy... I have done this many times and many times I think I am done and will ‘just’ smooth out one little bit for it all to drop on the floor 🤦♂️
Appreciated!!!
Thank you.
Trev we used to call it Lead wipe . A good tip.. Work the lead dust and flux paint with a timber ss brush in little circles before you heat is best. That way you scratch the surface and let the flux in more.
Maestro!!!!!!!
wow you have the convex regulation file my father have it one this is the old tecnic better than the new filers because its metal, I dont has do it never but Ive see it very good video trev
Trev lead loading was the only way 35-40 years ago as the lead will move with the panel , now with modern fillers there's really no need, just look at plastic bumpers as there is fillers made for this job and all the fillers now will move with the panel, lead loading was the way I was shown to do it , I worked for a main dealer (rootes) well back in the day lol
G'day from West Australia, glad to see you used a carbrizing flame.
Always better to have extra acetaline in the flame mix for lead wiping.
😉🙂👍👍
Yes and the same when lead welding on flashing , valleys , box gutters etc
I work in building restoration, they also used to use tallow in limewash so the paint would be waterproof. Guess it makes it unbreathable but its an old school version of paint
Done well
Thx!
Thanks for the good demonstration Trev. What do you think about the use of say 50% lead / 50% tin solder or 70% lead / 30% tin to do small repairs and resurfacing? I'm taking several problem areas of 70s Challenger down to bare metal; removing Bondo and surface rust and treating metal with Ospho acid prep. Then when metal work is complete I wanted to use self etching primer.
Thanks for taking the time for very detailed instructions.
Trev when leading a fender (wing) will undercoating catch fire? Also when leading a car top can the headliner be in place or will it catch fire?
Yes everything has to be stripped out and as clean as possible. Cheers Trev 👍
@@trevsblog - Thank you sir for the help.
They don't even teach lead wiping at tech school these days, yet it is still the best way to fill a welded joint between panels such as roofs to 1/4 panels
If you file through the tinned area and need to go back and add more you can re tin it with a large soldering gun or iron.
I lead big underground tubes, I would use a bigger flame to heat the total area.
We put lead on upside-down as the cables could not be moved.
You can drip the lead on use a paddle or moleskin.
It need heat to get the solder to melt, that falling on the floor is when it gets too hot.
We never filed or sanded ours, you can use a paper towel with flux on.
Mind that arm hair....lol
Nice work,Alot of people say this is a lost art cause body men got lazier,but truth be told customers of now a days are cheap bastards.
Filiberto Barrera It’s a fact, my inbox is full of people wanting me to repair a panel on their car providing it doesn’t cost too much. The problem we’ll never escape is car bodywork is labour intensive and cars are only worth so much, often not much. The customer always equates the value of your labour in terms of the value of their car. That’s why it’s a dying art and what people don’t realise, is that you won’t be able to get this kind of work done at all.
Boom! That's one of the reasons I got out years ago... The stories I could tell. Very few understand the intensity of labour involved. You either have a labour of love for the craft or you are bonkers 🤣
HipStar it would be great to just do your own vehicles while working at something else for a living. Cheers Trev 👍
Yes I live by the salty ocean so I left a panel bare metal in the garage came back two day's later it had a light brown film over it so I had to re sand it and cover it with a skim of filler and primer it. All depends on the inveroment a person live's in dry climent not so much.
SNOOP U 2 so true 👍
hi trev's i still use led now.
Superb no fuss video. So many are just trying to promote a product or make it look over complicated.
PK F my primary objective is to give as full an explanation as possible without leaving vital info out. I like the fact that someone with no knowledge can watch a video that I’ve produced for free, without myself having had interference from someone managing me. Cheers Trev 👍
Trev's Blog We dipped into this while i was in college doing engineering thirty years ago for maybe two lessons as part of our welding and fabrication module. It always interested me. Filler is not the answer. The amount of times I’ve seen great gobs of it used. It just cracks and falls out eventually. I work in IT now but my engineering past and all the things learned and practiced still hold true. Working on my own restoration I vowed to use as little filler as possible, so mastering leading is top of my list. Ironically using filler on plastics has the same issues. I adopt a similar method of soldering in plastic and then bringing it back down to the correct level. Its great the sort of thing you can achieve with a hot air rework station some spare plastic of the same type and a bit of time. Thank for everything you do.
..just to be sure, i would advise to clean the surface with water and scotchbrite or even with water mixed with baking soda to neutralize the flux. Flux contains hydrochloric acid. If the acid is lurking between the layers, rusting will happen. I use damp rag (not rag made out of plastic..) cotton etc for wiping the surface in tinning.
Good tips 👍
Hi I've always worked in the smash industry but in the last couple years I rolled my box loaded my guns searing never to return to a industry controlled by the insurance company. It got to a stage that I hated this side of the industry. So I started restoring old cars and fabrication mainly rust section repairs . As I started a young painter it was only a couple of years and I was working with the panel beaters every chance I got and weekends on there own car just to lean I loved working from start to finish even detailing the finished job thanks for your tips and tricks video as still 30 years latter there are still different methods that I've piking up watching your clips .I loved working with the old grumbling old guys as they alway took the time to show you if keen . Your videos are filled with good example that are well explained to any car enthused guy.. as we know what looks easy most times takes years to master even then you can still learn a different method doing a pross
Steve Ridell Thanks Steve I too am living proof that there’s life after the accident repair trade... I absolutely hated the regime. We all blame the insurance companies but don’t forget the management you worked under, like the french collaborators during the invasion in ww2. That aside I really appreciate your comments, very much appreciated. Cheers Trev 👍
Outstanding demonstration, thanks very much!! I do wonder, however, whether the blue gloves are entirely fireproof. If they are to catch fire in a most unpleasant situation, I believe it can ruin your hands quite terribly. Also, were you wearing anything to protect yourself from toxic fumes during this process?
I've been following quite some of your video posts and I truly admire your effort to share your talent with so many. It's an inspiration for my own VW T3 restoration as well. I recently tried some lead loading myself and was a lot of fun.
E. Middel I think the risk of setting the gloves on fire is so slim the advantages outweigh that. I don’t use a welding respirator enough to be honest. Good luck with your project. Cheers Trev 👍
Hi Trev. it's that plumber again, just a tip for you, after years of working with lead pipe and sheet l would suggest you forget about that tinning flux and get yourself a stick of tinmans solder for that stage and use the tallow on the metal to prevent oxidisation.
heat the area with a large blowlamp nozzle and rub the stick over the area and just carry straight on with the plumbers solder over it. Also you will find it a lot easier to get yourself a plumbers wiping cloth to shape it off in place of the wooden tool as the solder will flow better..
Moleskin cloth for lead wiping
..I`ve been dooing some search on the problem of sealing the inner sides of panels and hollow places, and found that a simple boiled linseed oil could do some excellent results. It distracts water strongly, the coating it creates is sturdy as hell. Really, I`ve been doing some old school plumbing job and after i finished it I just did`t clean all the tools. After some time when oil oxidised/dried I`ve tried to clean the dirty wrenches with all the stuff I could get and it just didn`t go off. And I`ve tried ammonia hydroxide, white spirits, nitro dilutant, gasoline, acetone, alcohol, silicone remover... Needles to say that wrenches are coated with chromium or nickel, both of which are a real pain in the ass for any paint to stick on. Note also that hollow places are fairly protected from the UV from the sun which, of course, does some damaging work to any paint, especially epoxy based. Also I`ve read on some forum that they used BLO in aircraft frames, to help fighting against water condensing inside. One last thing to mention is that it does not attack plastic/rubber body plugs, cables...
MetallMann Schneider interesting thank you. I will be uploading a new video about wax coatings etc, this week. Cheers Trev 👍
Would weld through primer withstand the heat on the inside of the panel?
Should have a proper fume resporator and in a well ventilated area. Lead blood levels go up via breathing the fumes.
Shut up wimp
I am currently on the line in new car manufacturing. The new car bodies do pick up minor dings and dents during the manufacturing process. My job is to find and repair them before the body is dipped and goes to e-coat.
Most of my repairs are old school metal finishing. However, in some cases, especially if the robot makes a short weld, we do still lead/solder small things.
Thanks that’s very interesting. I’ve heard through forums that some recent additions to accident repair methods are now utilising solder again. Cheers Trev 👍
Great video, thanks so much for sharing. Can propane or map gas be used instead of oxyacetylene?
Yes provided your torch gets hot enough this will work fine. Cheers Trev 👍
Trev,you didn't neutralize the acid with baking soda and water after tinning,is that ok?
I've seen and read you should before leading,or is it ok to do it after?
Hi trev, brilliant video, where can I buy the lead solder paste you use in this vid, thanks
steve Burton check out eBay, you can get most things from there. Frost tools, Eastwood etc. Cheers Trev 👍
Nice. If I ever get to the body work on my Volksrod, I really kind of want to use lead. There are a lot of those places that I feel body filler wont seal as good.
Lead isn't porous like filler,plus if you bash it later it won't rust . Looks good once it's sanded , you would never guess
Trev's Lead Sled...George Barris would be pleased...nice turned up Elvis collar as well. Now..have you heard of a product called Dinitrol AV 30? It is an aviation penetrating corrosion inhibitor that turns to a hard coating...perfect for the cavity inside your lead fill demo panel. Might be worth a try.Subscribed a while back and like all your on camera adventures involving your patient preservation of yesteryear's marvels. Best to you and yours
Ray Walz thanks Ray, we use dinitrol products at the restoration workshop. Cheers Trev 👍
Excellent...I'll clear a runway @ LAX for your arrival...again, best to you and yours.
I remember back in the early eighties I we through the Holden manufacturing Plant here in South Australia (yes we used to make cars In Australia)
the lead wipers were dressed in space suits air pressurised they were so used to it they just heated the panel and the bar then wiped the bar onto the panel the result was that they
did not need to spread the lead after wood
pijnto Thanks for sharing this, much appreciated. Cheers Trev 👍
Yes in old American car's they used lead or aluminum softer parts on the car around the tail light's or around the back fins of the 59 60s car's, I tried to fill in the dent with my Mig welder and made a bigger size hole. I had to fix it with a lead stick and a torch the first time I did it I blob it on the filed it to the shape and used sand paper to smooth it out I impressed myself. It was someone else car so I thought at first I'm in deep if I couldn't fix it I did not want to use body filler. I did nor think it would hold that it would just crack off.
@@trevsblog like Wild Bill Hanes in southern California he was a great lead slinger he used all lead and no body filler that is a dieing art that needs to be taught. Thanks for sharing this video. There's this it here guy from Canada called Bad Chad his wife record's him he puts out video on Friday he's a garage builder. A lot of people put him down they way he builds car's truck's I learn tricks and tips from everyone when I started in 1987 I had to learn by watching other's I wish there was TH-cam back then it would have saved me time and money.
SNOOP U 2 Hey Thanks 🤩. Your comment is very much appreciated. Cheers Trev 👍
SNOOP U 2 Brilliant well done for not just giving up. Cheers Trev 👍
We were thought how to do this in boy school back in the 80's. still a fun way to fill scrapes and tiny stuff.
Hi Trev love your videos, can you put lead in deep or will it cause a problem
Cheers keep up the good work
mark ketley it’s very difficult to give an answer to that. Obviously there’s a weight and cost issue. I personally only use lead on panels that were originally leaded from the factory. Cheers Trev 👍
Trev's Blog thanks trev, maybe I will melt it out and try again then
Hi Trev. great video , with it being bare metal would etch primer then a 2k primer or etch then polyester spraying filler then 2K primer be ok ?
It depends what you’re doing or working with? I’ve never personally spayed my projects with spray filler as I get the panel work filler work as perfect as possible. I personally epoxy then 2k over the top. Cheers Trev 👍
brilliant videos Trev! However might be worth considering for future decisions over "to lead or not to lead.." I used to study the effects of certain metal pollutants on life & the environment... Thought I'd share although I'm sure you are aware that lead is one of the worst.. In studies it has been shown to cause serious adverse neurological damage in humans in amounts as low as 20-30 ppm.. that's both mental afflictions as well as cancer and other nasties.. Anywho these kind of concentrations are easily achieved with the briefest of contact with the stuff! Skills like lead-work are likely a dying art because quite literally everyone died using the stuff... Shame because it is another really skilled use of a really malleable and otherwise useful material!
Anyway hope you're well, I love your videos and have learnt loads from you! Keep em coming, many thanks you're upping my skills no end!
Thanks Sean good points 👍
@@trevsblog then again roofers seem to use the stuff everyday all their lives and they're not all mad!😂✌️
@@SeanyC my only regret about making this video which was a request by a viewer was not going on more about ventilation. I’ve worked in the industry for over 30 years and have witnessed some blatant misuse of materials. One guy used lead in virtually every repair. He had a cigarette in one hand and an angle grinder in the other shaping the lead, never wore any protective equipment. He did die but it from heart complications which he ignored… I’ve watched guys spray with isocyanates wearing no respirators with no obvious Ill effects. I think a lot of this comes down to susceptibility. I’ve witnessed guys wearing all the kit but still suffering and others being irresponsible and suffering also. Personally I think the right thing to do is be protected. I’ve got injuries that will never heal, it’s unfortunate that you’ve got to get older before you get wiser. We’re all invincible aged 21 🤩
@@trevsblog Ahh its such a shame when things get blatantly ignored... I've done it myself when making surfboards with poly/epoxy resins... for some reason one can get complacent... Funnily I can remember when I first started using plastic resins and was so conscious of their toxicity and then slowly kinda get used to the smells... I'm back to be over the top careful again which is nice.. hopefully still unscathed! I've also got friends who spray cars and are seemingly hardly ever wearing masks!? I think its maybe the real working man male machismo as much as blissful ignorance... I'm hoping some wisdom comes their way but know it likely won't as they seem to have settled in their ways... Really nice to hear more about your experience with it all and think you're most definitely on the right track! I didn't want to come across as a safety troll... I was genuinely quite shocked when I learnt what I did about lead having never really given it much thought other than knowing its slightly toxic... Strangely its still in use in the UK in the form of water pipes!? Which would go a long way to explaining both mental health issues as well as many of the cancers... No joke in this day and age! I really enjoy watching and learning more from you you're a great teacher! I'm fixing up an old van at the mo... Wouldn't have gotten quite as far (in this style anyway!) without some of your tips and tricks!😂 Do keep them coming.....⚒🚀
Enjoyed your video. I tried this on my 48 ford tractor fender. Then skimmed over with body filler. Did it wrong now rust is coming back. any suggestions on what to do now.
Bernie Cranford Strip it off and start again, cheers Trev 👍
good info thanks could this process be used on landy aluminium panels torquay dave
I’ve never done it but I’ve seen lead in alloy. Apparently when you tin the alloy with the lead paste you wire brush over the area which causes alloy dust to mix with the paste. This then forms an alloy/lead alloy when it’s heated causing the surface to be tinned allowing lead loading. Cheers Trev 👍
haha i just learnt how to make icing last night
Hey Trev. Have you used any of the lead free body solder that is available? I was wondering if it performed poorly.
Sharmack sorry for the late reply. I’ve only used the lead/tin type which is fine. Cheers Trev 👍
Hi Trevor, thanks for uploading this instructional video. You just earned one more subscriber.
What is the concept in using this technique ?
Why not try to straighten the dented area using a hammer and dolly the best you can and then apply
the classic automotive filler to obtain a smooth surface ?
Is there an advantage in using lead as a filler over he the commercially available two component
epoxy filler that most workshops use ?
As far as I know lead is a very soft material...isn't that a problem in metal filling ?
Thanks for sharing...greetings from Greece.
angelo pap lead filler was used mostly in the past. It is better than modern fillers for sealing joints etc. Cheers Trev 👍
Hello, do you use welding primer on zinc/copper based if you spot weld?
Tom Maier the problem with the metal based weld through primers is that they scratch off incredibly easily also the metal is encapsulated in the resin the paint is made from so how can it have any sacrificial properties? I’ve started using an etch weld through, I’ll show it in an upcoming video. Cheers Trev 👍
is that lead or tin ?
Hello there. Why do you use tin paste? Can't he manage lead capture alone? Am I concerned about sticking or related to flow?Or is it with its melting point?
Paste is flux plus lead powder, just the same as if you were plumbing copper pipe, without flux lead will simply just roll off and not stick. Cheers Trev 👍
That racing engine sound at the first of your videos isn't the sound of your old van, is it?
It’s a Ferrari 275 GTB being thrashed around a race track, which could almost be confused with my van 🤣
G, day champ. Can i put fibreglass filler with stainless steel in it, over original lead in roof and quarter panel without epoxy primer first? Cheers.
Yes it will stick but epoxy primer does improve adhesion. Cheers Trev 👍
Could i coat a corroded steel power steering pipe using this method? Heavily pitted and a couple of micro punctures...? Great vid btw, my dad served his time wiping lead and all those old trades but in our ship building days
I suppose this could be possible, I’m not sure the lead would be sufficiently hard enough to resist bursting if the perforations were on the high pressure side but it may well be fine. I think the pipe would need to be prepared using something like reverse electrolysis so as to remove every last spec of rust from the pipes surface. The lead paint would then tin the bare steel effectively helping to prevent further corrosion and block those leaks 👍
@@trevsblog cool thanks 🙏