I have been playing hunter for several years now and I believe this series of videos is one of the most detailed and easy to understand introductions to the class mechanics, both basic and advanced. When it comes to movement, I do not have backpedaling bound and use exclusively QWE for movement. As a hunter kiting (with or without pet) you do not have to always face your target, you may get away with shooting it while being sideways. That way you are always running sideways, your back is not exposed to hits and you will not get dazed 99% of the time (of course if you do not have Cheetah on). Haha, just as I wrote this comment you recommended to unbind backpedaling as well.
Running through the target is the right mindset, and in the past was a very common strategy. Your head is in the right place, but straddling is a bit more optimal. Cheers!
Hi, thanks for the videos on your channel ive enjoyed them all. One question, when you say melee weaving is most useful in dungeons, how come? I would of thought its better to stay at range inside dungeons and let the melee classes deal with that because by the time i dip in out for a melee attack wouldnt I have gotten a ranged attack off within the same time frame?
Hey Kork, thanks for the awesome videos. One question - are the following two types of strafing not identical? a) With default keybinds, I hold down the right mouse button to look ahead + a or d key to run left or right b) I explicitly bind keys to strafe left/right and press down one of those keys I went to log into vanilla wow on lightshope to check for myself, but it looks like they have closed the servers in anticipation of wow classic release.
Great videos man. I played a hunter for 3 years in vanilla and kicked a lot of ass and thought i knew it all but i learned a few very important things here. I know it seems like hunters are getting the shit end of the stick in classic so far but i know we're still going to be the pvp kings. Keep the videos coming dude.
Hey man, played WoW for 10+ years, always played a healer pretty much but for classic im feeling selfish and want to try hunter for the first time, quick question, is there much point to mongoose bite PVP wise, a lot of vids i see players not using it or it not even being on their bars, do you use it? in both PVE and PVP and if so when? thanks.
Hi Joe. Yes, you should use it when available provided you are already in melee combat. It is not a lot of damage but every little bit can make the difference between a win or a death. The reason you don't see it on action bars because it is usually bound with a macro that spams wing clip, raptor strike, and mongoose bite. It's not really worth engaging in melee combat just to use it once you see it become available. Players get around this by spamming their macro so that if it happens to be up during melee combat, it will be used. So it takes a backseat visually, but it is there and should be used! Thanks for the question!
I actually unbind my turn keys and use a and d, but see what is more comfortable. The placement of the bind is marginally important compared to how it feels.
Someone has been testing melee range, ranged range and (Tauren hitbox) effects on the deadzone on the actual beta. Video is here: th-cam.com/video/By8Ny6BJwKY/w-d-xo.html The conclusion is that the Tauren male deadzone radius is 6.6 yards (female is a bit shorter) compared to other races' 6 yards. This means that not only is the Tauren deadzone surface area larger (because it's further out), the distance to be covered in a straight line is 10% larger. People can draw their own conclusions... I think that Tauren Hunter is possibly the worst race/class combination there is because of this.
Tauren deadzone area is bigger than other Hunter deadzone area because of this: Deadzone area = area of outer deadzone line - area of inner deadzone line Non-Tauren Hunter Deadzone = pi*8^2 - pi*5^2 = 201.06 - 78.54 = 122.52 Tauren Hunter Deadzone = pi*10^2 - pi*7^2 = 314.16 - 153.94 = 160.22 The area that a player can stand in to be in a Tauren Hunter deadzone is larger. In fact 160.22/122.52 = 1,3077. So a Tauren Hunter deadzone is almost 31%!! larger than the deadzone of the other Hunters. Consider the consequences of this in PvP when trying to lay a Frost Trap for example before rolling a Tauren Hunter...
Yes of course. I agree with your calculation of the surface area of the deadzone. But I think its an inappropriate representation. Movement in wow is linear, so orthogonal movement is almost always an option. Surface area of melee range and autoshot range is also increased. So it is unfair to apply surface area calculations only to highlight a negative argument without any context. But it is still an interesting mechanic to consider.
@@kork1118 It's the only accurate way of representing it. WoW isn't a 2D game, it's a 3D game so we have to calculate surface area, not the length of a line. It doesn't matter how linear the movement is. The chances of people ending up in your deadzone are bigger because your deadzone is bigger. It's a negative argument because there are literally 0 positive arguments to be made: so what if you have +2 range on both melee and range, if other people can hit you back from the same +2 range? If you would have +2 melee range but other melee would not be able to hit you back at 7 yards then it would rock. But they can, so the added range is literally useless. The ONLY thing the added range functionally does is displace your deadzone further away from you, and by doing so it increases the surface area of your deadzone, making it easier for anyone to be in your deadzone.
The geometric probability of someone being in a normal's hunters deadzone is 3.2%, and the geometric probability (not of all space, but of engagable range) of being in a Tauren's deadzone is 3.8%, so you are correct that there is a greater chance to be in a Tauren's deadzone, an entire .06%. But I understand your argument, we are not just talking about spatial distribution, we are talking about other players exploiting the increased size. Because we are not talking about random spatial distribution (we are talking about player behavior), and we are dealing with constrained movement in 3D space (not free movement), we are always dealing with the line geometry between you and your target. It is a 3d world, but player movement is constrained to a plane. Think of the deadzone not as dartboard (hunter players can only be approached from the z-direction if someone jumps off a cliff onto them), but as the projection of a hollow sphere on a 2-d plane. The only way the deadzone is geometrically exploited during movement is by moving in arcs, which only is possibly over come is by camera/movement combinations that the majority of the population are unfamiliar with. Proper movement by dedicated tauren hunters will allow this reduction to line geometry more often than not. I will not claim that Tauren's deadzone is advantageous mathematically, however, Tauren hunters will be inherently more familiar with their own deadzone than enemy players. This places the onus on enemy players to modify behavior based on an exceedingly rare case. Tauren hunters will never have to adjust muscle memory or make a conscience effort, and makes them always unique in this position (excluding duels). I concede that it is mathematically disadvantageous, but there are opportunities there for Tauren Hunter to exploit their rarity. I don't concede that it is wrong to roll a Tauren Hunter if it feels right and you are willing to capitalize on unfamiliarity. Edit: To be clear, I agree with you argument. The tauren hunter's deadzone is disadvantageous mathematically, but in an mmo pvp setting, player behavior and unfamiliarity must be given an almost equal weight, except against those of the highest caliber.
@@kork1118 Rolling one race or another is never wrong, anybody should play as they like. I just want to get the information out there that rolling Tauren will make your gameplay harder in both PvE and PvP. In PvE because if a tank pulls around a corner to a constricted space, you have less room to stand while being able to shoot. In PvP because the deadzone is a disadvantage in constricted areas (WSG flag room or tunnel for example) and whenever you need to drop a Frost trap in a team fight (because you need to cover more distance to be able to shoot after dropping the trap). It comes with big advantages if you ask me. I think War Stomp is the best racial for Hunters in PvP and the Tauren model is really fucking awesome. I might even roll a Tauren hunter on Classic. People should just be aware that the deadzone displacement is a big issue.
@@Mammel248 Agreed. I shouldn't try to suppress the reality of it just to avoid encouraging any particular race. I enjoyed the discussion, it actually made me investigate it more than I had before. Hopefully we will see each other once August rolls around!
I've been testing melee weaving in the classic wow stress test and I am under the impression that you need to wait for your melee swing timer to come off cooldown before your character will start charging their autoshot. It doesn't feel right and I hope they fix it.
I believe you maintain your model size no matter what effects you are under. Correct me if I am wrong, as cat form tauren druids actually have a bigger hit box than NELF cat form.
Another very good Hunter video; well done. But I fear that you are doing such a good job, that you are going to turn us all into a "dime fir a dozen" thing 🤣
my left ear enjoyed this
I have been playing hunter for several years now and I believe this series of videos is one of the most detailed and easy to understand introductions to the class mechanics, both basic and advanced.
When it comes to movement, I do not have backpedaling bound and use exclusively QWE for movement. As a hunter kiting (with or without pet) you do not have to always face your target, you may get away with shooting it while being sideways. That way you are always running sideways, your back is not exposed to hits and you will not get dazed 99% of the time (of course if you do not have Cheetah on).
Haha, just as I wrote this comment you recommended to unbind backpedaling as well.
The drawing at the end is just pure art haha. Nice guide btw, definitely learned some new things
Hehe, if it gets the job done!
Wrath baby, These videos are exactly what I’m looking for.
No judgement! Welcome to classic :)
Finally some one addressed the Tauren hit box and its effect on the hunter dead zone
It definitely gets more complicated than what I covered in the video, but I think it is important to bring up
You deserve more than a few hundred subs, this content is some of the best I’ve seen thank you
Appreciate it dude
Dude thank you so much for these videos man, these are awesome. Props to you
Again, the best videos I’ve seen on gameplay on TH-cam
Straddling the dead zone is something I never thought about in Vanilla. I always ran through the target. Thanks for the tip.
Running through the target is the right mindset, and in the past was a very common strategy. Your head is in the right place, but straddling is a bit more optimal. Cheers!
As a Hunter myself I find your videos brilliant
hey, what's the addon called to get the cast bar at the bottom?
How can you use frost trap after skatter shot when you cant use traps on combat? Also what does "clipping" mean?
Hello Kork. Some very useful videos. Thankyou. One question: what add-on do you use to manage your ability bars?
Great info, thanks!
Is there an addon for vanilla range check deadzone melee range ?
Hi, thanks for the videos on your channel ive enjoyed them all. One question, when you say melee weaving is most useful in dungeons, how come? I would of thought its better to stay at range inside dungeons and let the melee classes deal with that because by the time i dip in out for a melee attack wouldnt I have gotten a ranged attack off within the same time frame?
The thing with kiting is that I always seem to aggro nearby enemies that are out of the camera angle.
Great bit of advice. Unbind the back key. I've been struggling with movement and maybe that will force me to be better.
Hey Kork, thanks for the awesome videos. One question - are the following two types of strafing not identical?
a) With default keybinds, I hold down the right mouse button to look ahead + a or d key to run left or right
b) I explicitly bind keys to strafe left/right and press down one of those keys
I went to log into vanilla wow on lightshope to check for myself, but it looks like they have closed the servers in anticipation of wow classic release.
Can you make pvp 1v1 guides vs each class?
Something I will look in to for future videos!
Great videos man. I played a hunter for 3 years in vanilla and kicked a lot of ass and thought i knew it all but i learned a few very important things here. I know it seems like hunters are getting the shit end of the stick in classic so far but i know we're still going to be the pvp kings. Keep the videos coming dude.
A little handicap is small price to pay, keep your hopes high, i'll see you around Azeroth.
Doesn't this make the Tauren Deadzone bigger than others? Since the perimeter is larger
Hey man, played WoW for 10+ years, always played a healer pretty much but for classic im feeling selfish and want to try hunter for the first time, quick question, is there much point to mongoose bite PVP wise, a lot of vids i see players not using it or it not even being on their bars, do you use it? in both PVE and PVP and if so when? thanks.
Hi Joe. Yes, you should use it when available provided you are already in melee combat. It is not a lot of damage but every little bit can make the difference between a win or a death. The reason you don't see it on action bars because it is usually bound with a macro that spams wing clip, raptor strike, and mongoose bite. It's not really worth engaging in melee combat just to use it once you see it become available. Players get around this by spamming their macro so that if it happens to be up during melee combat, it will be used. So it takes a backseat visually, but it is there and should be used! Thanks for the question!
@@kork1118 cheers for the reply! Subbed.
No problem, best of luck
What keys do you typically rebind strafe right and strafe left to?
I actually unbind my turn keys and use a and d, but see what is more comfortable. The placement of the bind is marginally important compared to how it feels.
Yo @kork what addon are you using to time the auto shots ? . thanks in advance
Yaht, not sure if it will be in classic wow though
Someone has been testing melee range, ranged range and (Tauren hitbox) effects on the deadzone on the actual beta.
Video is here: th-cam.com/video/By8Ny6BJwKY/w-d-xo.html
The conclusion is that the Tauren male deadzone radius is 6.6 yards (female is a bit shorter) compared to other races' 6 yards. This means that not only is the Tauren deadzone surface area larger (because it's further out), the distance to be covered in a straight line is 10% larger. People can draw their own conclusions... I think that Tauren Hunter is possibly the worst race/class combination there is because of this.
Tauren deadzone area is bigger than other Hunter deadzone area because of this:
Deadzone area = area of outer deadzone line - area of inner deadzone line
Non-Tauren Hunter Deadzone = pi*8^2 - pi*5^2 = 201.06 - 78.54 = 122.52
Tauren Hunter Deadzone = pi*10^2 - pi*7^2 = 314.16 - 153.94 = 160.22
The area that a player can stand in to be in a Tauren Hunter deadzone is larger. In fact 160.22/122.52 = 1,3077. So a Tauren Hunter deadzone is almost 31%!! larger than the deadzone of the other Hunters. Consider the consequences of this in PvP when trying to lay a Frost Trap for example before rolling a Tauren Hunter...
Yes of course. I agree with your calculation of the surface area of the deadzone. But I think its an inappropriate representation. Movement in wow is linear, so orthogonal movement is almost always an option.
Surface area of melee range and autoshot range is also increased. So it is unfair to apply surface area calculations only to highlight a negative argument without any context. But it is still an interesting mechanic to consider.
@@kork1118 It's the only accurate way of representing it. WoW isn't a 2D game, it's a 3D game so we have to calculate surface area, not the length of a line. It doesn't matter how linear the movement is. The chances of people ending up in your deadzone are bigger because your deadzone is bigger. It's a negative argument because there are literally 0 positive arguments to be made: so what if you have +2 range on both melee and range, if other people can hit you back from the same +2 range? If you would have +2 melee range but other melee would not be able to hit you back at 7 yards then it would rock. But they can, so the added range is literally useless.
The ONLY thing the added range functionally does is displace your deadzone further away from you, and by doing so it increases the surface area of your deadzone, making it easier for anyone to be in your deadzone.
The geometric probability of someone being in a normal's hunters deadzone is 3.2%, and the geometric probability (not of all space, but of engagable range) of being in a Tauren's deadzone is 3.8%, so you are correct that there is a greater chance to be in a Tauren's deadzone, an entire .06%. But I understand your argument, we are not just talking about spatial distribution, we are talking about other players exploiting the increased size.
Because we are not talking about random spatial distribution (we are talking about player behavior), and we are dealing with constrained movement in 3D space (not free movement), we are always dealing with the line geometry between you and your target. It is a 3d world, but player movement is constrained to a plane. Think of the deadzone not as dartboard (hunter players can only be approached from the z-direction if someone jumps off a cliff onto them), but as the projection of a hollow sphere on a 2-d plane. The only way the deadzone is geometrically exploited during movement is by moving in arcs, which only is possibly over come is by camera/movement combinations that the majority of the population are unfamiliar with. Proper movement by dedicated tauren hunters will allow this reduction to line geometry more often than not.
I will not claim that Tauren's deadzone is advantageous mathematically, however, Tauren hunters will be inherently more familiar with their own deadzone than enemy players. This places the onus on enemy players to modify behavior based on an exceedingly rare case. Tauren hunters will never have to adjust muscle memory or make a conscience effort, and makes them always unique in this position (excluding duels).
I concede that it is mathematically disadvantageous, but there are opportunities there for Tauren Hunter to exploit their rarity. I don't concede that it is wrong to roll a Tauren Hunter if it feels right and you are willing to capitalize on unfamiliarity.
Edit: To be clear, I agree with you argument. The tauren hunter's deadzone is disadvantageous mathematically, but in an mmo pvp setting, player behavior and unfamiliarity must be given an almost equal weight, except against those of the highest caliber.
@@kork1118 Rolling one race or another is never wrong, anybody should play as they like. I just want to get the information out there that rolling Tauren will make your gameplay harder in both PvE and PvP. In PvE because if a tank pulls around a corner to a constricted space, you have less room to stand while being able to shoot. In PvP because the deadzone is a disadvantage in constricted areas (WSG flag room or tunnel for example) and whenever you need to drop a Frost trap in a team fight (because you need to cover more distance to be able to shoot after dropping the trap).
It comes with big advantages if you ask me. I think War Stomp is the best racial for Hunters in PvP and the Tauren model is really fucking awesome. I might even roll a Tauren hunter on Classic. People should just be aware that the deadzone displacement is a big issue.
@@Mammel248 Agreed. I shouldn't try to suppress the reality of it just to avoid encouraging any particular race. I enjoyed the discussion, it actually made me investigate it more than I had before.
Hopefully we will see each other once August rolls around!
I've been testing melee weaving in the classic wow stress test and I am under the impression that you need to wait for your melee swing timer to come off cooldown before your character will start charging their autoshot. It doesn't feel right and I hope they fix it.
Yeah, I'm afraid it will really take away fluidity in combat. We will see
@@kork1118 Turns out it was a bug with raptor strike and it was fixed classic.wowhead.com/news=294499/wow-classic-beta-and-stress-test-bug-fixes
Wonderful, thanks for the update and the link
backpedal is a feature of classic, highly don't recommend unbinding it. It is key to mob interactions and having them go where you want them to go.
I unbinded my back key now it drops a trap instead
Next level play: roll a Tauren hunter and use morphing effects to manipulate your dead zone !
I believe you maintain your model size no matter what effects you are under. Correct me if I am wrong, as cat form tauren druids actually have a bigger hit box than NELF cat form.
KorK Pretty sure a tauren hunter used shriniing items to win a duel on the classic wow beta but I am not a 100% sure
Another very good Hunter video; well done. But I fear that you are doing such a good job, that you are going to turn us all into a "dime fir a dozen" thing 🤣
I would never :)